September 18, 2025 • 41 mins
As the Eagles controversial “Tush Push” play sparks renewed backlash after a win over the Chiefs, Colin dives into why growing criticism and poor optics could lead to the NFL banning it
There seems to be a disconnect between Bears head coach Ben Johnson and rookie QB Caleb Williams
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Thursday. Man, we got
a good shot. I'm in Chicago, where the weather is perfect.
It's beautiful at seventy degrees. Jmack. How's the weather in
Los Angeles this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
We got some rain this morning for a time in
six months. LA is panicking.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
College looks fun. So I was thinking about this this morning.
I was thinking about the tush push and so Adam
Chef brought a store yesterday, like people are gonna get
rid of the tushpush, And I was thinking about this.
(01:06):
Stuff changes all the time in sports because of the
way it looks, and because this takes a while. It's ugly,
it's hard to officiate. You unpile people. It's not great television.
I mean, the NBA got rid of the Hack of Shack.
Hack a Shack was brilliant strategy by Mike Dunlevy. They
didn't like the way it looked shack clankin free throws.
(01:28):
Baseball got rid of the defensive shift. It was great strategy,
but they wanted more runners on the bases, more of
their stars on the bases. It was great strategy, both
the hack of Shack and the defensive shift, and I
don't like it. The tush push is great strategy. I mean,
the NFL got rid of the or changed the catch rule.
(01:49):
They thought players were making these dramatic catches. Fantasy football
fans were like, yeah, that doesn't count, and it was like,
that's a It was a buzzkill, so they changed the rule.
So if you're bobbling it, eh, well you've got control
of it. It's like I say with my iPhone, if
I'm clutching it, I clearly have my iPhone. But even
when I let it just sit on my hand that
(02:10):
it can move a little, I still have control of
my iPhone. It's still in my possession. And that's what
the NFL did with a catch. You still possess it
even if the ball moves a little within your grasp,
and it was the right route move. But I do
think there's a legitimate three reasons, maybe four, to legitimately
keep the Tousch push. Number One, it is a football play.
(02:31):
I watch football games, and that's a play during the games.
It's not rugby. It is a play during a football game.
It's a football play. Second, if it was just about
the offensive line, the Lions would do it. The Lions
have a great offensive line. So do the Broncos. You
ever see bow next two weeks ago try his version
of the Toush push. It was a disaster. And by
(02:52):
the way, Jared Goff can't do it. It's only about
Jalen Hurts, his all pro center left. They're better at
it this year, they do it more this year. It's
about Jalen Hurts his number one asset. He's the strongest
quarterback probably in league history, pound for pound. We don't
tell Lamar Jackson to run less, we don't tell Mahomes
not to throw side arm or left handed. Why take
(03:13):
away the number one asset for one of the star
quarterbacks in the league. And so there are reasons to
keep it, But I think this is what's happening, and
this is the problem. They're using it too much. The
defensive shift had Joe Madden used it once a series
against the dead poll hitter. You could have it. He
(03:36):
started using it all the time. The NBA doesn't mind
the three point shot, but when the Knicks and the
Celtics meet and shoot ninety seven in a playoff game,
it's bad television, and Adam Silver says we may have
to change it. Remember the IRS changes tax laws and
tax codes all the time when they think something's being
manipulated or used to hurt other people. I think that's
(04:00):
the problem this year. Think about this. Jalen Hurts has
attempted the tush push more than balls thrown down the
field ten plus yards, and sixty percent of league revenues
come from television. They're over using it. I contend if
you had one kickoff a game, they wouldn't have changed
(04:21):
the rules. But when you have eight or nine concussions,
numbers go up again. Even speeding on the freeway, you
can go six to seven miles an hour over the
speed limit. It's not called anything other than the speed limit,
and yet law enforcement allows you to go seven miles
an hour over it ten fifteen, twenty trouble. So this
(04:45):
thing would be allowed. The defensive shift if shack hack.
A shack could happen once, but when it becomes protocol,
the NFL is like, okay, you're doing it now more
than you throw the ball down the field. And I
think that is going to end it. I mean, the
last time it went up for a vote, it passed.
(05:06):
So there's a strong belief that they created it, they
won a Super Bowl with it, they're great at it,
and they're the only team doing it. I mean, Josh
Allen tried it, most talented quarterback in the league. He
can't do it. Though Nicks tried it two weeks ago
with a great old line. He can't do it. Jared
Goff can't do it with a great old Linone Herbert
can't do it. One guy can do it. Why punish
him because he's doing it too often? That's it. Adam
(05:28):
Silver doesn't mind the three. He doesn't want the Nicks
and Celtics shooting ninety seven of them. Here's Nick Sirianni
on his best play that may be taken away.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I think it's an exciting play. I mean, obviously there's
been a lot of discussion about it, and I think
you know, when you bring more discussion about a play,
it brings more attention to football. I always think there's
a beauty too, and like everyone knows what you're going
to run and you can still get the I mean,
it isn't that football.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yes, to a large degree, it is. But there's a
lot of things in life. You know, Golf is a
lot of fun. But if I was doing it six
days a week and wasn't doing my fair share at
the house, and would probably say I want to scale
back on golf. But I do it this summer twice
a week. I don't come home exhausted or drunk. Guy
(06:24):
hit golf balls for a couple hours. I'm back. So
golf is fun. There's a limit to everything, all right.
This is we have ourselves in an issue in Chicago,
Cowboys Bears this weekend on Fox Must Watch. Bears are
worse than we thought, Dallas better than we thought. So.
(06:45):
Ben Johnson said this yesterday. I'm going to read it
slowly about the Bears practice habits. I'm gonna read this.
We talk about it all the time. We should be
going at football very hard, finishing hard. Our offensive players,
their fundamentals are finished. Our technique they need to show
up on the practice field. That's how it shows up
(07:07):
on game day. Simple things like how do we properly block,
how do we catch a ball, how do we block
after the catch? Ball security, things like that, that stuff
you should know in youth league. Okay, now think about this.
He's not criticizing defense that just gave up fifty plus points.
He's not criticizing special teams. He's criticizing the offense. Who's
(07:28):
the leader of the offense, Caleb Williams. So he's also
criticizing the lack of fundamentals. He said, quote here little
things that you learn in youth league, you know, like
blocking and tackling and finishing plays hard. And I mention
this because that's Caleb's number one problem. It's not horsepower,
(07:49):
arm strength, mobility, it's footwork, it's mechanics, it's pre snap,
it's the basics. And I want to take you I
don't think this is a small thing. There have been
two times Ben Johnson has said things about the backup
Tyson Beagen. Here's the first. Listen closely.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
I've really been blown away by his approach from the
spring to the start of camp to where we are now.
He does a tremendous job knowing what to do, how
to do it and getting it done.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Basically, he's saying he's really good with the fundamentals, which
is what he's criticizing with the current offense, only with
this quarterback. So when he said, oh, I really like
Tyson beaging, it wasn't horsepower, it was fundamentals, the exact
thing he's criticizing now. But here's another one. This is
(08:46):
even more damning from Ben Johnson.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
He and I are probably wired very similar, just the
danners of room. He's usually all business. We try to
loosen him up so because he I mean, he's so
serious about his job. He wants to do so well,
and he wants a team to do well. That he's
always locked in. So we I can appreciate that about
him because I can relate.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I gotta be honest. I mean, if you said that
to your wife, you know, I really I work with Cindy.
We have a lot in common. We really relate. Like
I totally get what she's saying. She's so sharp. Yeah,
don't let your husband go to a Coldplay concert. Okay,
Like you got a problem coming. You may want to
(09:32):
get a hold of a divorce attorney. You don't have
to be a marriage counselor for thirty five years to
figure this out. He talks about how much he loved
fundamentals with Tyson Bagent. Now he's criticizing the lack of fundamentals.
You know, we have a lot in common. I mean,
our brains work the same way. Yeah, maybe that business trip.
(09:54):
Try to talk your husband out of it, like something
here is not good. I mean to say all this
stuff publicly about the backup. He's sharp, great with fundamentals. Man,
we think the same way. That's what I've complained about
Caleb and Ben Johnson, not the lack of talent, the
lack of symmetry, the lack of chemistry, the lack of stylistically, esthetically, optically.
(10:20):
They're just different. One guy is all about stacking and
system and timing and rhythm, and the other guys just
this artist who paste the fingernails, ad libs, huge arm momentum,
plays little hero Ball. They're just different cats, just different dudes.
(10:43):
So I don't think those bites. I mean when I
read that this morning, complaining about fundamentals, my first thought is,
that's what you loved about the backup. A month ago.
He kept going on about so sharp the pre snap stuff,
the fundamentals, because just like Kyle Shanahan, Ben Johnson at
(11:03):
his core designs a play and wants you to follow it,
and he knows it's a complicated play and it's got
to be fundamentally strong. Get the pre snap down. Let's
get the operations down. You can hear a ball at
twice three times a game, but run my play. I
don't know. I'm trying to be positive here. I at
(11:25):
least our weather is good, but the stuff is jumping
out to me. Greg Cosel fifty minutes from now, can't
wait for today. Jamac urban Meyer stops by as well.
You and I talk a lot. We talk about bets.
We like a lot. I have the Blazing five. You
have tomorrow's headlines to have you put in the Blazing five, Colin,
(11:47):
I've got I always have seven on Thursday six, Tomorrow
Morning Show.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
I drop one because you open with the Eagles and
the tush push. We saw the way the refs were
talking to the Chargers. Remember they flagged the Chargers Monday
night for a toush push attempt, and it was like, wait,
well let's going that's never flagged. Mcveigh's talking about it. Hey,
maybe I need to go to the League office, Colin,
if all of a sudden the toush push is removed.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
And that the referees are going to referee it differently.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
I think this hurts the Eagles Honestly, I'd be careful
backing them this weekend against We're gonna see at least
one flag for sure against the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
For the toush push.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
They're gonna they're gonna do something.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I mean, it's there is a way to manipulate officiating.
Not all officiating crews are the same. Phil Jackson used
to talk about that in the NBA. Some guys allow
stuff Herm Edwards, Bill Belichick, Brady's talked about that before.
Some officiating crews call more holding than others. Some officiating
crews let defensive backs hand the with wide receivers down
(12:49):
the field. So I think what will happen is I
think all eyes you're seeing all these discussions, all eyes
will be on the offensive line leaving early. So Philadelphia
will have to be on their best behavior, toush push
or not. I think the Rams actually match up with Philadelphia.
Philadelphia is not throwing the ball down the field at all. Secondly,
(13:10):
the Rams, Puka Naku and Devonte Adams. One of those
is going to be open against the Eagles secondary because
right now they're struggling at one of their corner spots,
so it's a good matchup. It's in Philly that matters.
You know, there's a reason their favorites. But I do
like the Rams plus the three and a half.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
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Speaker 7 (13:37):
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Inside the Parker, for twenty two minutes of piping hot
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Speaker 3 (13:50):
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Speaker 1 (14:09):
You're now entering the No Bull Zone, sponsored by Credible
Great Rates None of the bull. So sometimes I just
like to play sound bites from Aaron Rodgers because he
uses words no other guy I ever know would use
in a public setting, and so Aaron is talking about
that the game this week as they go to New England.
(14:29):
I actually think Pittsburgh's the interesting side here. They could
have I mean, they just basically forgot how to play football,
forgot basic rules at home against Seattle, and then they
had a ball that should have been a touchdown or
receiver made a mistake. It got tipped in interception to
intercepted in the end zone. Seattle I thought was the
better team going in. I had talked about that, but
I did think Pittsburgh could have served itself much better
(14:53):
in the second half. So now New England comes up,
and here's Aaron talking about next game up.
Speaker 8 (15:00):
I don't like getting too binary, but winning that's a
good response. But we can't get attached to the binary
system that our league is judged on, necessarily because it
is a seventeen game season and the process has to
be great. So he's dig into the details in the process,
enjoy it, practice well, and then let game day take
(15:22):
care of itself.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah. I don't know about the whole binary system, but
winning cures everything in the NFL, and sometimes you get
lucky in the next four weeks. Here's who the Steelers
are playing, a franchise with six Super Bowls, so I
hold you to a higher level. They're playing Drake May,
Carson Wentz, Joe Flacco, and Jake Browning. So if they
don't go four to oh, we got problems. Regardless of
what binary system you're dealing with. Joe Burrow, Pittsburgh's gotten
(15:48):
very lucky. Joe Burrow gets hurt and he won't play
the two times Pittsburgh's gonna face him. If you look
at the schedule, they face Miami week fifteen, Miami could
be in full tank mode. It's after the trade deadline.
They may sell off players for picks, and they may
have an interim coach, and then they play the Ravens
(16:09):
in week eighteen, and I think it's realistic to think
the Ravens are going to win this now without Joe
Burrow going away and will be resting starters. So you
get two Jake Brownings, a Miami team that I would
bet at the trade deadline is moving off players, and
a Ravens team resting starters in the final regular season week.
So not all ten and sevens are equal. Because the
(16:30):
problem for the Steelers in the last decade has not
been that they don't win, it's that they don't beat
good teams and great quarterbacks. So all I care about
with the Steelers this year is five games in the
regular season. Week eight Green Bay and Jordan Love, Week ten,
Justin Herbert and the Chargers, Week thirteen, Josh Allen at
(16:51):
home Bills, Week fourteen at Lamar Jackson, and then Week
sixteen Jared Goff and the Lions personnel. That's the season.
I don't care about the Falcons or beating Jake Browning. Well, Colin,
that's not fair. You've got six trophies. I judged Georgia
football different than Purdue. Okay, you got six trophies. So
(17:13):
there's a lot of breaks teams get, and playing Jake
Browning over Joe Burrow twice, getting a tanking Miami after
the trade deadline, Ravens in the final week, resting starters
are breaks. And if you think I'm being hard, remember
last year the Steelers were ten and three at one point, woo.
I was getting a lot of heat from Steeler Nation.
(17:36):
Then they lost five straight. Lookie, here who are the quarterbacks?
Lamar Jackson twice, Mahomes Hurtz and Joe Burrow. Oh they
lost all those games. Yeah, suddenly, apparently the internet went
out in Pittsburgh. Never got any feedback after that, certainly
no pushback. So I'm going to judge Pittsburgh, whatever binary
(17:59):
system it is. I'm judging them on wins over good teams.
And then the next month you get young Drake may
a rebuilding Patriot team. Yes they still are, Joe Flacco,
Carson Wentz, and Jake Browning. You gotta go four oh,
Jay mcklin.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
News, this is the Herdline News.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
All right, coward, We're starting with the Kansas City Chiefs,
one of the biggest disappointments through two weeks in the league. Mahomes,
it's a three game losing streak and he's it's for
the first time in his career.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
He's zero and two. The offense has been dreadful.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
I'm going to talk about the defense in a moment,
but Mahomes, he's taking singular blame.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
It's all on him.
Speaker 9 (18:43):
For myself just being better at executing in some of
those earlier moments in the game, especially, I mean there
was guys open obviously no early, but even more than that,
just if I kind of sit in that pocket a
little bit longer to trust those guys get the ball,
the guys down the field. I feel like we can
make some more explosive.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
That's not what my eyes tell me. My eyes tell
me guys aren't getting opened. My eyes tell me that
Mahomes is actually playing really well, but he's got no
run game, doesn't trust his own line, and doesn't have
a number one or two receiver. That's it. And by
the way, the Travis Kelsey drop that became a pick
was the ball game. I mean that was the ball.
If you're watching that game like I was, I was
thinking and you were watching it thinking, is Kansas City
(19:22):
gonna steal this thing? And then the minute Philadelphia picked
it off and went off to the races, you're like, okay,
game's oh well.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
There was still like nine minutes left. But yes, that
was a massive swing in the game. Colin, I need
to ask you about this, so you know what we
look at the trenches are everything right? You offensive line,
defensive line pressure rate? Can you pressure the quarterback?
Speaker 9 (19:42):
Right?
Speaker 6 (19:42):
The Chiefs are number one in the NFL in blitz percentage,
but it's not correlating with pressure because they're only twenty
sixth in pressure rate. They can't get to the quarterback with.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Four or with the blitz.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Okay, so here's my what d What don't they have
an edge rusher? No, they they don't have a run game.
Oh so the defense they are doing their serie. Their
defense is on the field too much. And I've said
this before. One of the components to having a great defense.
Baltimore always has one. They always run the ball well.
(20:15):
So when your defense is only on its forty third
defensive snap late third quarter, because it's harder to play defense.
You're pursuing, you're chasing, you don't know the play. So,
I mean, we've had people on this show. It's harder
to play defense. You are constantly pursuing, right. And by
the way, if you're not running hard to the very
(20:35):
end of a play, it'll show up on the film
role Monday and Tuesday in front of your entire team,
and the coach will call you out offensive players, an
offensive lineman, running back flies through. You just watch the play.
Half the team watches the play. So my point is,
look at the defenses in this league. The really good
defenses are almost always aligned with a run game. Kansas
City cannot run.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
The ball and the defense is gassed.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
In the fourth Chargers got the first downs the.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Game.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Look at the look at the Eagles, and look at
Justin Herbert in the second half against Kansas City Lights
had it up. The defense is on the field too
many snaps.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
So let me ask, let's spin this to the Giants
game on Monday. Is there a world where this is
closer than than than the experts think? Everybody thinks out
cheezs are fine, like if you're not going to pressure
Russell Wilson, Malik Neighbors is good. I know McDuffie got
torched by DeVante Smith. He's more of a slot guy
than on the outside. I'm telling you Neighbors will torch him.
Here's this is an interesting game?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, I mean they were in two interesting games with
the Raiders last year. The Chiefs no longer blowout teams.
All their games are interesting. Yeah, So I mean it's
not and and and I think Russell showed I mean
he's he made a bad throw in the I think
it was overtime when he lost to Dak and the Cowboys.
But I think when when people say it, will the
(21:52):
game be interesting? Every single game for the Chiefs last year,
even against bad teams was interesting.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
They just happened to go eleven to know in those
interesting games. One final note, Mahomes, I didn't even realize this.
He's at fifty eight percent completion through two games. Fifty
eight percent for Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
By the way, the Chiefs running backs are averaging sixteen
rushing yards per game this season. Sixteen.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
If they're not getting right against the Giants, I.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
Think it's okay because they got the Ravens after that,
it's officially I think it's a close.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I think it's a I think it's a twenty four
to twenty game. I think it's very close. I'd probably
take Kansas City because they're reading Mahomes, but I think
it'll absolutely be Cleoar. They're not going to run the
ball at all against the Giants.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, that front is nasty.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
All right.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Let's move on to the San Francisco forty nine ers,
who kind of got some interesting news yesterday at practice
when Kyle Shanahan, remember Rock Perty was supposed to be
out two to four weeks. Kyle Shanahan came out and
said there's a chance he could play what against the
Cardinals this week now. Some people, of course, hold on Colin.
Some people are saying he saw mac Jones light it
up and he doesn't want to get wally picked. And
(22:58):
I'm like, all right, settled down. I personally don't think
he'll play.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
But go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I like San Francisco in this spot. This is one
of the games. I like Arizona's all beat up on
the back end.
Speaker 6 (23:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I think general rule in pro sports is athletes come
back in about half the time of the initial prognosis.
They're young, good team doctors. And for the record, Mac
Jones playing great. Don't kid yourself. It matters. Guys want
to get back on the field.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
You don't think when somebody fills in here and crushes it.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
I'm like, hey, honey, we got to get back from
vacation early.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Come on, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You don't do that.
Speaker 10 (23:35):
No.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
Hey, by the way, I know the Cardinals their secondary.
You got to check that injury report.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
But for the.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Forty nine ers on Wednesday, I'm just going to read it.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
Nick Bosa was resting, did not practice, Juwan Jennings did
not practice. Kyle Yuschik did not practice. Christian McCaffrey there's
a theme here resting player did not practice. I know
some of these guys are veterans, okay, but this is
early in the season.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
For that is no. But I mean this is a
true I've seen for about five years when you get
veteran coaches and veteran reliable players. This is the Rams
do this constantly. I don't check every team. This is
Kyle giving the guys who play well, but he needs
in respect. Yeah, did not practic. That doesn't mean anything.
(24:17):
Ravens do that sometimes too. I think this is a
trend in the NFL, is that, especially when you play
a division rival, you know their personnel, you know the quarterback.
I mean when you start playing division rivals, I mean
the games you got a lot of tape. You got
you got six games of tape in the last three years.
It's not like you're facing as an NFC team, you're
facing Lamar Jackson for the first time. It's like, I
(24:39):
need my guys to practice.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
Yeah, And Kyler Murray did have his way with the
Niners last year. He had two solid definitely one solid game.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Final story.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Colin Green Bay Packers number one in the Herd hierarchy.
The Packers are big favorites over the Browns. We cautioned
you guys against this yesterday. Kevin Stefanski knows that Matt
Lafleur's offense is nothing to be trifled with.
Speaker 10 (25:04):
It's a tremendous offensive attack that coach leafor has gone.
Like we talked about the quarterback making great decisions, but
they really do, to your point, actually have the ability
to throw it to all their guys, whether it's the
receivers of tight ends or the running back. So and
it comes in a variety of scheme. It can be
hard play action shots down the field that they can
spread you out very quickly with some of the things
(25:25):
they do. They're an excellent motion team. So it's a great,
great challenge.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, when you watch the Packers this year, trust your eyes.
They are the fastest offense in the league. Everybody can run.
The quarterback, they're running back, the tight ends. Craft is
going to be a six or seven time Pro bowler.
He is a stud. And all their receivers can run.
They have drafted as well as the Rams have drafted
on defense, the Packers have arguably done better on offense.
(25:52):
They're not missing on anybody.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Again, I made a case for the Browns here yesterday,
not to win outright, but for this to be closer.
I think this number comes a lot down from eight
and a half, probably closes around a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Colin.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
Let's just let's be real here. We like the Packers.
Their opener was against the Lions. They smashed them. That
was an obvious We love that. Then they had Washington
on a short week come into Green Bay. Yeah, I know,
two playoff teams, but very favorable spots for the Packers,
this one with Dallas next week. I think there's some
caution here for Jordan Love against Miles Garrett and company.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Game. Well, my next story is going to touch on those.
Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd. Lie.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I love that Jmack brought this up. You're gonna love this.
Jason favorites in the NFL this year of at least
four points are twelve and oh on the season. Why, okay,
this is something I've talked about for three years on
the show. It's the disappearing middle class in the NFL.
(26:57):
It's the disappearing middle class. So in any business, when
one thing primarily becomes the thing you have to have
or do to succeed. That business becomes haves and have nots,
and like in tech, if you don't embrace AI in
five years, you're dead. Now everybody's going to obviously, But
(27:20):
what the NFL has become to me over the last
three years, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I
don't love it. It has become David Stern's NBA. David Stern,
because he took over a dying NBA, leaned into stars
and market size. You could have two and three and
four superstars on one team and if the big markets
(27:43):
could afford them, so be it. Adam Silver doesn't like that.
Adam Silver took over the NBA from David Stern where
it was top heavy, and Adam Silver said, I want
to make it more even. Well under Adam Silver seven years,
seven champs. We can argue which is better. But what
the NFL has become is David Stearn's NBA because the
(28:05):
only way to win in this league consistently you have
to have a great quarterback. Because of safety rules post
CTE story and CTE nine hundred million dollar check written,
NFL protects quarterbacks as much as they can and they've
changed the legislation, the rules of the sport to favor
the quarterbacks. So to me, the halves in the NFL
(28:29):
right now, you have to have at least a B
plus quarterback. The halves are Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City Chargers
since when Joe Burrow is healthy, Texans, and Denver. Those
are the halves in the AFC and the NFC. It's
Green Bay, Philly, Washington, San Francisco, Rams, Yes, Brock Perty, Detroit,
Tampa in Dallas fifteen teen. Now we can argue about
(28:49):
Sam Darnold, certainly could argue about it. These are the
absolute halves. In fact, if you go to the last
four seasons in the NFL and look at the last
sixteen teams that have made a conference championship, it's only
nine different organizations, but it's sixteen teams. Fifteen of sixteen.
(29:11):
Fifteen of sixteen had a Pro Bowl quarterback, a quarterback
that is at some point made a Pro Bowl. The
exception is Jimmy Garoppolo, who under Kyle Shanahan, was damn
close to a Pro Bowl quarterback. He isn't now, he
wasn't before, but he was pretty darn good. He led
Mahomes in the fourth quarter, completes one deep ball beats
Mahomes probably. So the reality is what you're seeing in
(29:35):
the NFL is and this is what's really changed for me.
Betting the NFL last year and a half blazing five
is hard. Couldn't figure it out last year. I'm like,
I was always a guy that took underdogs, especially if
they had a viable quarterback. Favorites now cover one of
my favorite bets. Next week. I like the Ravens over
the Lions. They're a home favorite, They're a better team.
(29:56):
Jared Gosss not the same outside at night as he
is in a dome, and it usually I'd be like, oh,
I got Jared Goff, I got value. Say no, I'll
probably just take the favorite. I mean, tonight is not
a game I would bet because it's a twelve plus spread.
I stay away from those games. I would take Buffalo.
I would just take the big favorite. And I think
there's a real gap in the league. It's it's very
(30:17):
much David Stern's NBA, and I love David Stern's NBA.
Adam Silver. Some argue it's like the seventies NBA. We
have no dynasties. But it's more even when you could
win running the football, when you could win with defense
and be a playoff team with running the football and defense.
It wasn't as you know, it wasn't as exciting, but
(30:40):
it was more even. And by the way, you can
criticize Jimmy Garoppolo, but under as a Niner quarterback, Fasserrating
was ninety nine spe plus, just didn't make a Pro Bowl.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Greg Cosel top of Next Hour my favorite fifteen minutes
of the week. So I saw a headline this morning.
It got me worked up as I was taking the
train in a city with perfect weather this morning. Jmak
was driving trudging through the rainstorm the tsunami in Los Angeles.
(31:23):
So here's the headline I read. Caleb Williams was not
the problem, and the Bears blowout Laws, and this writer
cites a bunch of stats, so you're gonna notice this.
Great quarterbacks don't get blown out a lot. And there's
(31:43):
free I'm not sure if it's still used, but I'm
not going to mention the people who say this, But
there's a couple of broadcasters who say this a lot,
and it's just nonsense, and they think they're smart when
they say it. Winning is not a quarterback stat. Yeah
it is. It's funny Mahomes, Montana and Brady always end
(32:05):
up in the super Bowl. What a coincidence. By the way,
if winning isn't a quarterback stat, then why are these
quarterbacks have the most wins? Brady, Manning, Breeze, Farv Rogers,
La Big Bend. Where's Jay Cutler? I don't I don't
see Jay Cutler is not on that. That's interesting, It's
all They're all great. It's funny how it works. Like
(32:28):
nobody wouldn't deny that in that interesting, the most career
quarterback wins all Hall of famers. Nobody would deny being
taller and better looking is an advantage in life. Just
opens doors. People want to be around you, Like nobody
would deny that. There's studies they've looked at and they say, yeah,
it probably does help. But yet nobody ever thinks about that.
(32:53):
Goofy quarterback is not a winning stat or yah, that's
not what wins if you have a great quarterback. Three
things are true that aren't necessarily with mediocre to bad quarterbacks.
Number One, better coaches and coordinators are willing to move
their families across town. Four better quarterbacks. Jim Harbaugh seemed
(33:19):
kind of selective, didn't he He was very interested in
the Chargers because of their super Bowl winning history. No,
because of Justin Herbert. Jesse Minner's like, yeah, go look
at the staff for Harball. Very easy. I mean, they
didn't go to LA because it's inexpensive, and you get
a bigger home or their super Bowl history. Now you
(33:41):
get Herbert. So the better the quarterback, the easier it
is to assemble a great staff. Second thing, it makes
the draft easier. You don't have to for the next
fifteen years ever draft in the first round a quarterback. Again,
you just find left tackles, edge rushers, weapons, centers, people
(34:02):
to support him. Because quarterback is a fifty to fifty
miss proposition. In the first round, you never have to
worry about anything other than get the best player available,
not guess whether this quarterback will have the soul, the toughness,
the cognitive ability. So it helps you in the draft.
It makes drafting easier. And the third thing is stars
(34:25):
already in the league want to play with great quarterbacks.
It's funny the Chargers called Keenan Allen you want to
come back. They couldn't get it out of the mouth. Yeah,
I'll come back. I'll leave Chicago and I'll go to
Los Angeles. It's funny. Mike Williams came back. Keenan Allen
comes back. Jim Harbutt. It's because of Justin Herbert. So
(34:46):
this idea that quarterbacks not a winning stat. If you
get the quarterback right, it makes everything easier everything. I mean,
Denver was a mess, even after the first year Sean
Payton was there. They get bow nicks and you're watching
them like they should be two and oh and all
(35:09):
we're doing is complaining they have not played well. They
should be two and oh. If not for a nebulous
if he call on the field goal, they'd be two
and oh, and you'd be like, oh, okay. I mean,
you start complaining about stuff when you have the right quarterback.
That really is a privilege. You're complaining about your play
(35:31):
calling in a win, you're complaining about you know, man,
Yeah we had too many penalties. We won, but I
mean we had too many penalies. That was Denver against Tennessee.
So the reason that Caleb Williams is getting blown out
too many three and outs, too many five or six
and outs. There's no rhythm. You lose field position when
(35:51):
you have a quarterback that can't sustain drives. Your defense
is on the field longer and it plays worse. Go
look at time of possession for bad quarterback, time of
possession for many good quarterbacks. Right like, And I'm not
saying coaches don't matter and environments don't matter. Matt Stafford
wins a lot more with Sean McVay than he did
in Detroit. I'm not saying coaches don't matter, but it's
(36:11):
idea that winning is not a quarterback stat Well, then
why are all the greatest winning quarterbacks, the winningest quarterbacks
ever are all Hall of famers. It's just like being
better looking or taller. It's an advantage. It just opens doors.
It makes everything easier. You get more opportunities. You almost
always win with a great quarterback a field position. And
(36:32):
that's what Bill par sells you to talk about the
hidden yards in football, that you just get so many
hidden yards if you can pick up third downs and
move the chains and win time of possession and over
the course of a game in your thirteen possessions. If
you are consistently week to week getting better field position,
you have easier field goals to make you can use
more of your offensive packages. Like so, I mean six
(36:57):
of our last president, six of our last seven presidents
have been like Tall, Like go look at CEOs, Oh
tall CEOs. It matters quarterback winning. They go together, always have,
always will. They do all the things that you can't
necessarily figure out, and they feel like, I'm not sure
(37:19):
better coaches apply for jobs with better quarterbacks. That's the
By the way, a lot of people were interested in
the Cowboys job with Dak. Jerry chose Brian Schottenheimer, somebody
he knew, but the Cowboys with Dak, I mean, Vrabel
would have been interested. Sean Payton at one time would
have been interested. If the Cowboys had an opening next year,
(37:42):
regardless of who Jerry Jones would hire, they would have
people based on Dak's play. They would be like, oh, yeah,
I can score twenty four points a game with Dak,
I can make I can win playoff games with Dak.
I was thinking about this with the Buffalo Bills. So
(38:02):
sometimes almost all the time. The reason Lebron Lebron kept
getting to the Eastern Conference finals in the NBA Finals,
A big part of it was Lebron was good, but
in equal measure, the Eastern Conference was awful. The minute
Lebron goes over to the West, there are no guarantees
you're getting to the conference finals. The teams are better.
(38:25):
Saban dominated a largely dysfunctional SEC. The minute Texas came
in with Sark and Kirby Smart hit on Georgia. Win
wins didn't happen very easy, right like he wasn't when
Tennessee and Georgia couldn't get their life together. The Old
miss didn't have Lane Kiffin for most of his stay
(38:46):
at Alabama, Texas wasn't in it. Oklahoma as a different conference.
Just remember this on the Buffalo Bills. Who's circling the
drain right now? In Week three? Miami Jets again, by
the way, who's circling the drain? In the NFC AFC
(39:09):
North Joe Burrow Cincinnati by the way, Green Bay's Division,
Minnesota not sure what to do at quarterback? Chicago a mess,
Detroit regressed. If you're asking me my three favorites for
the Super Bowl this year, Buffalo, Baltimore and Green Bay.
(39:33):
Why because they're going to eat, get buys or have
more home games. Do look at Tom Brady's career. He
always struggled in Denver. Tom got so many home games
largely because Buffalo and the Jets were almost always dysfunctional
and Miami was sometimes interesting but never great. So it's
(39:56):
interesting watching Miami become the team that's really circling the drain.
That is a big advantage. That's two wins, including tonight
for Buffalo. The Jets look like a bit of a circus.
Justin Fields is hurt and New England's interesting but a
mile away from being good. So the Joe Burrow interesting,
(40:19):
the Joe Burrow injury, and the Miami disaster. They're benefiting
two of the three best quarterbacks in their conference, Josh
Allen and Lamar Jackson. So, and for the record, what
have I said about Kansas City? Kansas City would be
fine today if they were in the AFC or NFC.
(40:41):
South Harbaugh, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll. Part of their success.
I looked it up this morning. From twenty seventeen to
twenty twenty three, Denver, the Raiders and Chargers. All I
had losing records, that was part of it. Home games,
buys playing at arrowhead their advantages. So I look at
(41:02):
the Packers that Bills, the Ravens, all places that get
cold in January and February playoff time, all with great
quarterbacks in their prime, and all right now in their division.
Dysfunction has erupted in the NFC North, the AFC North,
and with Miami in the AFC East Packers, Bill's Ravens.
(41:24):
It matters how good are your rivals or how dysfunctional
are them
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Thursday. Man, we got
a good shot. I'm in Chicago, where the weather is perfect.
It's beautiful at seventy degrees. Jmack. How's the weather in
Los Angeles this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
We got some rain this morning for a time in
six months. LA is panicking.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
College looks fun. So I was thinking about this this morning.
I was thinking about the tush push and so Adam
Chef brought a store yesterday, like people are gonna get
rid of the tushpush, And I was thinking about this.
(01:06):
Stuff changes all the time in sports because of the
way it looks, and because this takes a while. It's ugly,
it's hard to officiate. You unpile people. It's not great television.
I mean, the NBA got rid of the Hack of Shack.
Hack a Shack was brilliant strategy by Mike Dunlevy. They
didn't like the way it looked shack clankin free throws.
(01:28):
Baseball got rid of the defensive shift. It was great strategy,
but they wanted more runners on the bases, more of
their stars on the bases. It was great strategy, both
the hack of Shack and the defensive shift, and I
don't like it. The tush push is great strategy. I mean,
the NFL got rid of the or changed the catch rule.
(01:49):
They thought players were making these dramatic catches. Fantasy football
fans were like, yeah, that doesn't count, and it was like,
that's a It was a buzzkill, so they changed the rule.
So if you're bobbling it, eh, well you've got control
of it. It's like I say with my iPhone, if
I'm clutching it, I clearly have my iPhone. But even
when I let it just sit on my hand that
(02:10):
it can move a little, I still have control of
my iPhone. It's still in my possession. And that's what
the NFL did with a catch. You still possess it
even if the ball moves a little within your grasp,
and it was the right route move. But I do
think there's a legitimate three reasons, maybe four, to legitimately
keep the Tousch push. Number One, it is a football play.
(02:31):
I watch football games, and that's a play during the games.
It's not rugby. It is a play during a football game.
It's a football play. Second, if it was just about
the offensive line, the Lions would do it. The Lions
have a great offensive line. So do the Broncos. You
ever see bow next two weeks ago try his version
of the Toush push. It was a disaster. And by
(02:52):
the way, Jared Goff can't do it. It's only about
Jalen Hurts, his all pro center left. They're better at
it this year, they do it more this year. It's
about Jalen Hurts his number one asset. He's the strongest
quarterback probably in league history, pound for pound. We don't
tell Lamar Jackson to run less, we don't tell Mahomes
not to throw side arm or left handed. Why take
(03:13):
away the number one asset for one of the star
quarterbacks in the league. And so there are reasons to
keep it, But I think this is what's happening, and
this is the problem. They're using it too much. The
defensive shift had Joe Madden used it once a series
against the dead poll hitter. You could have it. He
(03:36):
started using it all the time. The NBA doesn't mind
the three point shot, but when the Knicks and the
Celtics meet and shoot ninety seven in a playoff game,
it's bad television, and Adam Silver says we may have
to change it. Remember the IRS changes tax laws and
tax codes all the time when they think something's being
manipulated or used to hurt other people. I think that's
(04:00):
the problem this year. Think about this. Jalen Hurts has
attempted the tush push more than balls thrown down the
field ten plus yards, and sixty percent of league revenues
come from television. They're over using it. I contend if
you had one kickoff a game, they wouldn't have changed
(04:21):
the rules. But when you have eight or nine concussions,
numbers go up again. Even speeding on the freeway, you
can go six to seven miles an hour over the
speed limit. It's not called anything other than the speed limit,
and yet law enforcement allows you to go seven miles
an hour over it ten fifteen, twenty trouble. So this
(04:45):
thing would be allowed. The defensive shift if shack hack.
A shack could happen once, but when it becomes protocol,
the NFL is like, okay, you're doing it now more
than you throw the ball down the field. And I
think that is going to end it. I mean, the
last time it went up for a vote, it passed.
(05:06):
So there's a strong belief that they created it, they
won a Super Bowl with it, they're great at it,
and they're the only team doing it. I mean, Josh
Allen tried it, most talented quarterback in the league. He
can't do it. Though Nicks tried it two weeks ago
with a great old line. He can't do it. Jared
Goff can't do it with a great old Linone Herbert
can't do it. One guy can do it. Why punish
him because he's doing it too often? That's it. Adam
(05:28):
Silver doesn't mind the three. He doesn't want the Nicks
and Celtics shooting ninety seven of them. Here's Nick Sirianni
on his best play that may be taken away.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I think it's an exciting play. I mean, obviously there's
been a lot of discussion about it, and I think
you know, when you bring more discussion about a play,
it brings more attention to football. I always think there's
a beauty too, and like everyone knows what you're going
to run and you can still get the I mean,
it isn't that football.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yes, to a large degree, it is. But there's a
lot of things in life. You know, Golf is a
lot of fun. But if I was doing it six
days a week and wasn't doing my fair share at
the house, and would probably say I want to scale
back on golf. But I do it this summer twice
a week. I don't come home exhausted or drunk. Guy
(06:24):
hit golf balls for a couple hours. I'm back. So
golf is fun. There's a limit to everything, all right.
This is we have ourselves in an issue in Chicago,
Cowboys Bears this weekend on Fox Must Watch. Bears are
worse than we thought, Dallas better than we thought. So.
(06:45):
Ben Johnson said this yesterday. I'm going to read it
slowly about the Bears practice habits. I'm gonna read this.
We talk about it all the time. We should be
going at football very hard, finishing hard. Our offensive players,
their fundamentals are finished. Our technique they need to show
up on the practice field. That's how it shows up
(07:07):
on game day. Simple things like how do we properly block,
how do we catch a ball, how do we block
after the catch? Ball security, things like that, that stuff
you should know in youth league. Okay, now think about this.
He's not criticizing defense that just gave up fifty plus points.
He's not criticizing special teams. He's criticizing the offense. Who's
(07:28):
the leader of the offense, Caleb Williams. So he's also
criticizing the lack of fundamentals. He said, quote here little
things that you learn in youth league, you know, like
blocking and tackling and finishing plays hard. And I mention
this because that's Caleb's number one problem. It's not horsepower,
(07:49):
arm strength, mobility, it's footwork, it's mechanics, it's pre snap,
it's the basics. And I want to take you I
don't think this is a small thing. There have been
two times Ben Johnson has said things about the backup
Tyson Beagen. Here's the first. Listen closely.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
I've really been blown away by his approach from the
spring to the start of camp to where we are now.
He does a tremendous job knowing what to do, how
to do it and getting it done.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Basically, he's saying he's really good with the fundamentals, which
is what he's criticizing with the current offense, only with
this quarterback. So when he said, oh, I really like
Tyson beaging, it wasn't horsepower, it was fundamentals, the exact
thing he's criticizing now. But here's another one. This is
(08:46):
even more damning from Ben Johnson.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
He and I are probably wired very similar, just the
danners of room. He's usually all business. We try to
loosen him up so because he I mean, he's so
serious about his job. He wants to do so well,
and he wants a team to do well. That he's
always locked in. So we I can appreciate that about
him because I can relate.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I gotta be honest. I mean, if you said that
to your wife, you know, I really I work with Cindy.
We have a lot in common. We really relate. Like
I totally get what she's saying. She's so sharp. Yeah,
don't let your husband go to a Coldplay concert. Okay,
Like you got a problem coming. You may want to
(09:32):
get a hold of a divorce attorney. You don't have
to be a marriage counselor for thirty five years to
figure this out. He talks about how much he loved
fundamentals with Tyson Bagent. Now he's criticizing the lack of fundamentals.
You know, we have a lot in common. I mean,
our brains work the same way. Yeah, maybe that business trip.
(09:54):
Try to talk your husband out of it, like something
here is not good. I mean to say all this
stuff publicly about the backup. He's sharp, great with fundamentals. Man,
we think the same way. That's what I've complained about
Caleb and Ben Johnson, not the lack of talent, the
lack of symmetry, the lack of chemistry, the lack of stylistically, esthetically, optically.
(10:20):
They're just different. One guy is all about stacking and
system and timing and rhythm, and the other guys just
this artist who paste the fingernails, ad libs, huge arm momentum,
plays little hero Ball. They're just different cats, just different dudes.
(10:43):
So I don't think those bites. I mean when I
read that this morning, complaining about fundamentals, my first thought is,
that's what you loved about the backup. A month ago.
He kept going on about so sharp the pre snap stuff,
the fundamentals, because just like Kyle Shanahan, Ben Johnson at
(11:03):
his core designs a play and wants you to follow it,
and he knows it's a complicated play and it's got
to be fundamentally strong. Get the pre snap down. Let's
get the operations down. You can hear a ball at
twice three times a game, but run my play. I
don't know. I'm trying to be positive here. I at
(11:25):
least our weather is good, but the stuff is jumping
out to me. Greg Cosel fifty minutes from now, can't
wait for today. Jamac urban Meyer stops by as well.
You and I talk a lot. We talk about bets.
We like a lot. I have the Blazing five. You
have tomorrow's headlines to have you put in the Blazing five, Colin,
(11:47):
I've got I always have seven on Thursday six, Tomorrow
Morning Show.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
I drop one because you open with the Eagles and
the tush push. We saw the way the refs were
talking to the Chargers. Remember they flagged the Chargers Monday
night for a toush push attempt, and it was like, wait,
well let's going that's never flagged. Mcveigh's talking about it. Hey,
maybe I need to go to the League office, Colin,
if all of a sudden the toush push is removed.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
And that the referees are going to referee it differently.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
I think this hurts the Eagles Honestly, I'd be careful
backing them this weekend against We're gonna see at least
one flag for sure against the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
For the toush push.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
They're gonna they're gonna do something.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I mean, it's there is a way to manipulate officiating.
Not all officiating crews are the same. Phil Jackson used
to talk about that in the NBA. Some guys allow
stuff Herm Edwards, Bill Belichick, Brady's talked about that before.
Some officiating crews call more holding than others. Some officiating
crews let defensive backs hand the with wide receivers down
(12:49):
the field. So I think what will happen is I
think all eyes you're seeing all these discussions, all eyes
will be on the offensive line leaving early. So Philadelphia
will have to be on their best behavior, toush push
or not. I think the Rams actually match up with Philadelphia.
Philadelphia is not throwing the ball down the field at all. Secondly,
(13:10):
the Rams, Puka Naku and Devonte Adams. One of those
is going to be open against the Eagles secondary because
right now they're struggling at one of their corner spots,
so it's a good matchup. It's in Philly that matters.
You know, there's a reason their favorites. But I do
like the Rams plus the three and a half.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
Hey it's me Rock Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast,
Inside the Parker, for twenty two minutes of piping hot
baseball talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Whether you believe in analytics or.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
The ie test, We've got all the bases covered. New
episodes drop every Thursday, So do your sofa fa and
listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
You're now entering the No Bull Zone, sponsored by Credible
Great Rates None of the bull. So sometimes I just
like to play sound bites from Aaron Rodgers because he
uses words no other guy I ever know would use
in a public setting, and so Aaron is talking about
that the game this week as they go to New England.
(14:29):
I actually think Pittsburgh's the interesting side here. They could
have I mean, they just basically forgot how to play football,
forgot basic rules at home against Seattle, and then they
had a ball that should have been a touchdown or
receiver made a mistake. It got tipped in interception to
intercepted in the end zone. Seattle I thought was the
better team going in. I had talked about that, but
I did think Pittsburgh could have served itself much better
(14:53):
in the second half. So now New England comes up,
and here's Aaron talking about next game up.
Speaker 8 (15:00):
I don't like getting too binary, but winning that's a
good response. But we can't get attached to the binary
system that our league is judged on, necessarily because it
is a seventeen game season and the process has to
be great. So he's dig into the details in the process,
enjoy it, practice well, and then let game day take
(15:22):
care of itself.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah. I don't know about the whole binary system, but
winning cures everything in the NFL, and sometimes you get
lucky in the next four weeks. Here's who the Steelers
are playing, a franchise with six Super Bowls, so I
hold you to a higher level. They're playing Drake May,
Carson Wentz, Joe Flacco, and Jake Browning. So if they
don't go four to oh, we got problems. Regardless of
what binary system you're dealing with. Joe Burrow, Pittsburgh's gotten
(15:48):
very lucky. Joe Burrow gets hurt and he won't play
the two times Pittsburgh's gonna face him. If you look
at the schedule, they face Miami week fifteen, Miami could
be in full tank mode. It's after the trade deadline.
They may sell off players for picks, and they may
have an interim coach, and then they play the Ravens
(16:09):
in week eighteen, and I think it's realistic to think
the Ravens are going to win this now without Joe
Burrow going away and will be resting starters. So you
get two Jake Brownings, a Miami team that I would
bet at the trade deadline is moving off players, and
a Ravens team resting starters in the final regular season week.
So not all ten and sevens are equal. Because the
(16:30):
problem for the Steelers in the last decade has not
been that they don't win, it's that they don't beat
good teams and great quarterbacks. So all I care about
with the Steelers this year is five games in the
regular season. Week eight Green Bay and Jordan Love, Week ten,
Justin Herbert and the Chargers, Week thirteen, Josh Allen at
(16:51):
home Bills, Week fourteen at Lamar Jackson, and then Week
sixteen Jared Goff and the Lions personnel. That's the season.
I don't care about the Falcons or beating Jake Browning. Well, Colin,
that's not fair. You've got six trophies. I judged Georgia
football different than Purdue. Okay, you got six trophies. So
(17:13):
there's a lot of breaks teams get, and playing Jake
Browning over Joe Burrow twice, getting a tanking Miami after
the trade deadline, Ravens in the final week, resting starters
are breaks. And if you think I'm being hard, remember
last year the Steelers were ten and three at one point, woo.
I was getting a lot of heat from Steeler Nation.
(17:36):
Then they lost five straight. Lookie, here who are the quarterbacks?
Lamar Jackson twice, Mahomes Hurtz and Joe Burrow. Oh they
lost all those games. Yeah, suddenly, apparently the internet went
out in Pittsburgh. Never got any feedback after that, certainly
no pushback. So I'm going to judge Pittsburgh, whatever binary
(17:59):
system it is. I'm judging them on wins over good teams.
And then the next month you get young Drake may
a rebuilding Patriot team. Yes they still are, Joe Flacco,
Carson Wentz, and Jake Browning. You gotta go four oh,
Jay mcklin.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
News, this is the Herdline News.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
All right, coward, We're starting with the Kansas City Chiefs,
one of the biggest disappointments through two weeks in the league. Mahomes,
it's a three game losing streak and he's it's for
the first time in his career.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
He's zero and two. The offense has been dreadful.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
I'm going to talk about the defense in a moment,
but Mahomes, he's taking singular blame.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
It's all on him.
Speaker 9 (18:43):
For myself just being better at executing in some of
those earlier moments in the game, especially, I mean there
was guys open obviously no early, but even more than that,
just if I kind of sit in that pocket a
little bit longer to trust those guys get the ball,
the guys down the field. I feel like we can
make some more explosive.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
That's not what my eyes tell me. My eyes tell
me guys aren't getting opened. My eyes tell me that
Mahomes is actually playing really well, but he's got no
run game, doesn't trust his own line, and doesn't have
a number one or two receiver. That's it. And by
the way, the Travis Kelsey drop that became a pick
was the ball game. I mean that was the ball.
If you're watching that game like I was, I was
thinking and you were watching it thinking, is Kansas City
(19:22):
gonna steal this thing? And then the minute Philadelphia picked
it off and went off to the races, you're like, okay,
game's oh well.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
There was still like nine minutes left. But yes, that
was a massive swing in the game. Colin, I need
to ask you about this, so you know what we
look at the trenches are everything right? You offensive line,
defensive line pressure rate? Can you pressure the quarterback?
Speaker 9 (19:42):
Right?
Speaker 6 (19:42):
The Chiefs are number one in the NFL in blitz percentage,
but it's not correlating with pressure because they're only twenty
sixth in pressure rate. They can't get to the quarterback with.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Four or with the blitz.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Okay, so here's my what d What don't they have
an edge rusher? No, they they don't have a run game.
Oh so the defense they are doing their serie. Their
defense is on the field too much. And I've said
this before. One of the components to having a great defense.
Baltimore always has one. They always run the ball well.
(20:15):
So when your defense is only on its forty third
defensive snap late third quarter, because it's harder to play defense.
You're pursuing, you're chasing, you don't know the play. So,
I mean, we've had people on this show. It's harder
to play defense. You are constantly pursuing, right. And by
the way, if you're not running hard to the very
(20:35):
end of a play, it'll show up on the film
role Monday and Tuesday in front of your entire team,
and the coach will call you out offensive players, an
offensive lineman, running back flies through. You just watch the play.
Half the team watches the play. So my point is,
look at the defenses in this league. The really good
defenses are almost always aligned with a run game. Kansas
City cannot run.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
The ball and the defense is gassed.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
In the fourth Chargers got the first downs the.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Game.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Look at the look at the Eagles, and look at
Justin Herbert in the second half against Kansas City Lights
had it up. The defense is on the field too
many snaps.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
So let me ask, let's spin this to the Giants
game on Monday. Is there a world where this is
closer than than than the experts think? Everybody thinks out
cheezs are fine, like if you're not going to pressure
Russell Wilson, Malik Neighbors is good. I know McDuffie got
torched by DeVante Smith. He's more of a slot guy
than on the outside. I'm telling you Neighbors will torch him.
Here's this is an interesting game?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, I mean they were in two interesting games with
the Raiders last year. The Chiefs no longer blowout teams.
All their games are interesting. Yeah, So I mean it's
not and and and I think Russell showed I mean
he's he made a bad throw in the I think
it was overtime when he lost to Dak and the Cowboys.
But I think when when people say it, will the
(21:52):
game be interesting? Every single game for the Chiefs last year,
even against bad teams was interesting.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
They just happened to go eleven to know in those
interesting games. One final note, Mahomes, I didn't even realize this.
He's at fifty eight percent completion through two games. Fifty
eight percent for Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
By the way, the Chiefs running backs are averaging sixteen
rushing yards per game this season. Sixteen.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
If they're not getting right against the Giants, I.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
Think it's okay because they got the Ravens after that,
it's officially I think it's a close.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I think it's a I think it's a twenty four
to twenty game. I think it's very close. I'd probably
take Kansas City because they're reading Mahomes, but I think
it'll absolutely be Cleoar. They're not going to run the
ball at all against the Giants.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, that front is nasty.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
All right.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Let's move on to the San Francisco forty nine ers,
who kind of got some interesting news yesterday at practice
when Kyle Shanahan, remember Rock Perty was supposed to be
out two to four weeks. Kyle Shanahan came out and
said there's a chance he could play what against the
Cardinals this week now. Some people, of course, hold on Colin.
Some people are saying he saw mac Jones light it
up and he doesn't want to get wally picked. And
(22:58):
I'm like, all right, settled down. I personally don't think
he'll play.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
But go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I like San Francisco in this spot. This is one
of the games. I like Arizona's all beat up on
the back end.
Speaker 6 (23:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I think general rule in pro sports is athletes come
back in about half the time of the initial prognosis.
They're young, good team doctors. And for the record, Mac
Jones playing great. Don't kid yourself. It matters. Guys want
to get back on the field.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
You don't think when somebody fills in here and crushes it.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
I'm like, hey, honey, we got to get back from
vacation early.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Come on, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You don't do that.
Speaker 10 (23:35):
No.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
Hey, by the way, I know the Cardinals their secondary.
You got to check that injury report.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
But for the.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Forty nine ers on Wednesday, I'm just going to read it.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
Nick Bosa was resting, did not practice, Juwan Jennings did
not practice. Kyle Yuschik did not practice. Christian McCaffrey there's
a theme here resting player did not practice. I know
some of these guys are veterans, okay, but this is
early in the season.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
For that is no. But I mean this is a
true I've seen for about five years when you get
veteran coaches and veteran reliable players. This is the Rams
do this constantly. I don't check every team. This is
Kyle giving the guys who play well, but he needs
in respect. Yeah, did not practic. That doesn't mean anything.
(24:17):
Ravens do that sometimes too. I think this is a
trend in the NFL, is that, especially when you play
a division rival, you know their personnel, you know the quarterback.
I mean when you start playing division rivals, I mean
the games you got a lot of tape. You got
you got six games of tape in the last three years.
It's not like you're facing as an NFC team, you're
facing Lamar Jackson for the first time. It's like, I
(24:39):
need my guys to practice.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
Yeah, And Kyler Murray did have his way with the
Niners last year. He had two solid definitely one solid game.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Final story.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Colin Green Bay Packers number one in the Herd hierarchy.
The Packers are big favorites over the Browns. We cautioned
you guys against this yesterday. Kevin Stefanski knows that Matt
Lafleur's offense is nothing to be trifled with.
Speaker 10 (25:04):
It's a tremendous offensive attack that coach leafor has gone.
Like we talked about the quarterback making great decisions, but
they really do, to your point, actually have the ability
to throw it to all their guys, whether it's the
receivers of tight ends or the running back. So and
it comes in a variety of scheme. It can be
hard play action shots down the field that they can
spread you out very quickly with some of the things
(25:25):
they do. They're an excellent motion team. So it's a great,
great challenge.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, when you watch the Packers this year, trust your eyes.
They are the fastest offense in the league. Everybody can run.
The quarterback, they're running back, the tight ends. Craft is
going to be a six or seven time Pro bowler.
He is a stud. And all their receivers can run.
They have drafted as well as the Rams have drafted
on defense, the Packers have arguably done better on offense.
(25:52):
They're not missing on anybody.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Again, I made a case for the Browns here yesterday,
not to win outright, but for this to be closer.
I think this number comes a lot down from eight
and a half, probably closes around a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Colin.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
Let's just let's be real here. We like the Packers.
Their opener was against the Lions. They smashed them. That
was an obvious We love that. Then they had Washington
on a short week come into Green Bay. Yeah, I know,
two playoff teams, but very favorable spots for the Packers,
this one with Dallas next week. I think there's some
caution here for Jordan Love against Miles Garrett and company.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Game. Well, my next story is going to touch on those.
Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd. Lie.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I love that Jmack brought this up. You're gonna love this.
Jason favorites in the NFL this year of at least
four points are twelve and oh on the season. Why, okay,
this is something I've talked about for three years on
the show. It's the disappearing middle class in the NFL.
(26:57):
It's the disappearing middle class. So in any business, when
one thing primarily becomes the thing you have to have
or do to succeed. That business becomes haves and have nots,
and like in tech, if you don't embrace AI in
five years, you're dead. Now everybody's going to obviously, But
(27:20):
what the NFL has become to me over the last
three years, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I
don't love it. It has become David Stern's NBA. David Stern,
because he took over a dying NBA, leaned into stars
and market size. You could have two and three and
four superstars on one team and if the big markets
(27:43):
could afford them, so be it. Adam Silver doesn't like that.
Adam Silver took over the NBA from David Stern where
it was top heavy, and Adam Silver said, I want
to make it more even. Well under Adam Silver seven years,
seven champs. We can argue which is better. But what
the NFL has become is David Stearn's NBA because the
(28:05):
only way to win in this league consistently you have
to have a great quarterback. Because of safety rules post
CTE story and CTE nine hundred million dollar check written,
NFL protects quarterbacks as much as they can and they've
changed the legislation, the rules of the sport to favor
the quarterbacks. So to me, the halves in the NFL
(28:29):
right now, you have to have at least a B
plus quarterback. The halves are Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City Chargers
since when Joe Burrow is healthy, Texans, and Denver. Those
are the halves in the AFC and the NFC. It's
Green Bay, Philly, Washington, San Francisco, Rams, Yes, Brock Perty, Detroit,
Tampa in Dallas fifteen teen. Now we can argue about
(28:49):
Sam Darnold, certainly could argue about it. These are the
absolute halves. In fact, if you go to the last
four seasons in the NFL and look at the last
sixteen teams that have made a conference championship, it's only
nine different organizations, but it's sixteen teams. Fifteen of sixteen.
(29:11):
Fifteen of sixteen had a Pro Bowl quarterback, a quarterback
that is at some point made a Pro Bowl. The
exception is Jimmy Garoppolo, who under Kyle Shanahan, was damn
close to a Pro Bowl quarterback. He isn't now, he
wasn't before, but he was pretty darn good. He led
Mahomes in the fourth quarter, completes one deep ball beats
Mahomes probably. So the reality is what you're seeing in
(29:35):
the NFL is and this is what's really changed for me.
Betting the NFL last year and a half blazing five
is hard. Couldn't figure it out last year. I'm like,
I was always a guy that took underdogs, especially if
they had a viable quarterback. Favorites now cover one of
my favorite bets. Next week. I like the Ravens over
the Lions. They're a home favorite, They're a better team.
(29:56):
Jared Gosss not the same outside at night as he
is in a dome, and it usually I'd be like, oh,
I got Jared Goff, I got value. Say no, I'll
probably just take the favorite. I mean, tonight is not
a game I would bet because it's a twelve plus spread.
I stay away from those games. I would take Buffalo.
I would just take the big favorite. And I think
there's a real gap in the league. It's it's very
(30:17):
much David Stern's NBA, and I love David Stern's NBA.
Adam Silver. Some argue it's like the seventies NBA. We
have no dynasties. But it's more even when you could
win running the football, when you could win with defense
and be a playoff team with running the football and defense.
It wasn't as you know, it wasn't as exciting, but
(30:40):
it was more even. And by the way, you can
criticize Jimmy Garoppolo, but under as a Niner quarterback, Fasserrating
was ninety nine spe plus, just didn't make a Pro Bowl.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Greg Cosel top of Next Hour my favorite fifteen minutes
of the week. So I saw a headline this morning.
It got me worked up as I was taking the
train in a city with perfect weather this morning. Jmak
was driving trudging through the rainstorm the tsunami in Los Angeles.
(31:23):
So here's the headline I read. Caleb Williams was not
the problem, and the Bears blowout Laws, and this writer
cites a bunch of stats, so you're gonna notice this.
Great quarterbacks don't get blown out a lot. And there's
(31:43):
free I'm not sure if it's still used, but I'm
not going to mention the people who say this, But
there's a couple of broadcasters who say this a lot,
and it's just nonsense, and they think they're smart when
they say it. Winning is not a quarterback stat. Yeah
it is. It's funny Mahomes, Montana and Brady always end
(32:05):
up in the super Bowl. What a coincidence. By the way,
if winning isn't a quarterback stat, then why are these
quarterbacks have the most wins? Brady, Manning, Breeze, Farv Rogers,
La Big Bend. Where's Jay Cutler? I don't I don't
see Jay Cutler is not on that. That's interesting, It's
all They're all great. It's funny how it works. Like
(32:28):
nobody wouldn't deny that in that interesting, the most career
quarterback wins all Hall of famers. Nobody would deny being
taller and better looking is an advantage in life. Just
opens doors. People want to be around you, Like nobody
would deny that. There's studies they've looked at and they say, yeah,
it probably does help. But yet nobody ever thinks about that.
(32:53):
Goofy quarterback is not a winning stat or yah, that's
not what wins if you have a great quarterback. Three
things are true that aren't necessarily with mediocre to bad quarterbacks.
Number One, better coaches and coordinators are willing to move
their families across town. Four better quarterbacks. Jim Harbaugh seemed
(33:19):
kind of selective, didn't he He was very interested in
the Chargers because of their super Bowl winning history. No,
because of Justin Herbert. Jesse Minner's like, yeah, go look
at the staff for Harball. Very easy. I mean, they
didn't go to LA because it's inexpensive, and you get
a bigger home or their super Bowl history. Now you
(33:41):
get Herbert. So the better the quarterback, the easier it
is to assemble a great staff. Second thing, it makes
the draft easier. You don't have to for the next
fifteen years ever draft in the first round a quarterback. Again,
you just find left tackles, edge rushers, weapons, centers, people
(34:02):
to support him. Because quarterback is a fifty to fifty
miss proposition. In the first round, you never have to
worry about anything other than get the best player available,
not guess whether this quarterback will have the soul, the toughness,
the cognitive ability. So it helps you in the draft.
It makes drafting easier. And the third thing is stars
(34:25):
already in the league want to play with great quarterbacks.
It's funny the Chargers called Keenan Allen you want to
come back. They couldn't get it out of the mouth. Yeah,
I'll come back. I'll leave Chicago and I'll go to
Los Angeles. It's funny. Mike Williams came back. Keenan Allen
comes back. Jim Harbutt. It's because of Justin Herbert. So
(34:46):
this idea that quarterbacks not a winning stat. If you
get the quarterback right, it makes everything easier everything. I mean,
Denver was a mess, even after the first year Sean
Payton was there. They get bow nicks and you're watching
them like they should be two and oh and all
(35:09):
we're doing is complaining they have not played well. They
should be two and oh. If not for a nebulous
if he call on the field goal, they'd be two
and oh, and you'd be like, oh, okay. I mean,
you start complaining about stuff when you have the right quarterback.
That really is a privilege. You're complaining about your play
(35:31):
calling in a win, you're complaining about you know, man,
Yeah we had too many penalties. We won, but I
mean we had too many penalies. That was Denver against Tennessee.
So the reason that Caleb Williams is getting blown out
too many three and outs, too many five or six
and outs. There's no rhythm. You lose field position when
(35:51):
you have a quarterback that can't sustain drives. Your defense
is on the field longer and it plays worse. Go
look at time of possession for bad quarterback, time of
possession for many good quarterbacks. Right like, And I'm not
saying coaches don't matter and environments don't matter. Matt Stafford
wins a lot more with Sean McVay than he did
in Detroit. I'm not saying coaches don't matter, but it's
(36:11):
idea that winning is not a quarterback stat Well, then
why are all the greatest winning quarterbacks, the winningest quarterbacks
ever are all Hall of famers. It's just like being
better looking or taller. It's an advantage. It just opens doors.
It makes everything easier. You get more opportunities. You almost
always win with a great quarterback a field position. And
(36:32):
that's what Bill par sells you to talk about the
hidden yards in football, that you just get so many
hidden yards if you can pick up third downs and
move the chains and win time of possession and over
the course of a game in your thirteen possessions. If
you are consistently week to week getting better field position,
you have easier field goals to make you can use
more of your offensive packages. Like so, I mean six
(36:57):
of our last president, six of our last seven presidents
have been like Tall, Like go look at CEOs, Oh
tall CEOs. It matters quarterback winning. They go together, always have,
always will. They do all the things that you can't
necessarily figure out, and they feel like, I'm not sure
(37:19):
better coaches apply for jobs with better quarterbacks. That's the
By the way, a lot of people were interested in
the Cowboys job with Dak. Jerry chose Brian Schottenheimer, somebody
he knew, but the Cowboys with Dak, I mean, Vrabel
would have been interested. Sean Payton at one time would
have been interested. If the Cowboys had an opening next year,
(37:42):
regardless of who Jerry Jones would hire, they would have
people based on Dak's play. They would be like, oh, yeah,
I can score twenty four points a game with Dak,
I can make I can win playoff games with Dak.
I was thinking about this with the Buffalo Bills. So
(38:02):
sometimes almost all the time. The reason Lebron Lebron kept
getting to the Eastern Conference finals in the NBA Finals,
A big part of it was Lebron was good, but
in equal measure, the Eastern Conference was awful. The minute
Lebron goes over to the West, there are no guarantees
you're getting to the conference finals. The teams are better.
(38:25):
Saban dominated a largely dysfunctional SEC. The minute Texas came
in with Sark and Kirby Smart hit on Georgia. Win
wins didn't happen very easy, right like he wasn't when
Tennessee and Georgia couldn't get their life together. The Old
miss didn't have Lane Kiffin for most of his stay
(38:46):
at Alabama, Texas wasn't in it. Oklahoma as a different conference.
Just remember this on the Buffalo Bills. Who's circling the
drain right now? In Week three? Miami Jets again, by
the way, who's circling the drain? In the NFC AFC
(39:09):
North Joe Burrow Cincinnati by the way, Green Bay's Division,
Minnesota not sure what to do at quarterback? Chicago a mess,
Detroit regressed. If you're asking me my three favorites for
the Super Bowl this year, Buffalo, Baltimore and Green Bay.
(39:33):
Why because they're going to eat, get buys or have
more home games. Do look at Tom Brady's career. He
always struggled in Denver. Tom got so many home games
largely because Buffalo and the Jets were almost always dysfunctional
and Miami was sometimes interesting but never great. So it's
(39:56):
interesting watching Miami become the team that's really circling the drain.
That is a big advantage. That's two wins, including tonight
for Buffalo. The Jets look like a bit of a circus.
Justin Fields is hurt and New England's interesting but a
mile away from being good. So the Joe Burrow interesting,
(40:19):
the Joe Burrow injury, and the Miami disaster. They're benefiting
two of the three best quarterbacks in their conference, Josh
Allen and Lamar Jackson. So, and for the record, what
have I said about Kansas City? Kansas City would be
fine today if they were in the AFC or NFC.
(40:41):
South Harbaugh, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll. Part of their success.
I looked it up this morning. From twenty seventeen to
twenty twenty three, Denver, the Raiders and Chargers. All I
had losing records, that was part of it. Home games,
buys playing at arrowhead their advantages. So I look at
(41:02):
the Packers that Bills, the Ravens, all places that get
cold in January and February playoff time, all with great
quarterbacks in their prime, and all right now in their division.
Dysfunction has erupted in the NFC North, the AFC North,
and with Miami in the AFC East Packers, Bill's Ravens.
(41:24):
It matters how good are your rivals or how dysfunctional
are them
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