October 23, 2025 • 35 mins
Colin Cowherd reacts to stunning breaking news from the NBA — the FBI arrests Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups and Heat guard Terry Rozier in a major investigation tied to illegal poker games and sports betting.
Then, Colin dives into Victor Wembanyama’s monster 40-point season opener, explaining why the Spurs’ superstar might already be ready to claim the crown as the NBA’s best player.
Plus, Dodgers manager Dave Roberts joins the show ahead of the World Series showdown with the Blue Jays, sharing his mindset going into the series and firing back at critics who claim the Dodgers have “ruined baseball.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh, it is a very different day in the Herd.
We are live.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
On a day many of us, most of us woke up,
rushed to the Internet and saw a story that was
a combination of James Bond meets Casino meets Uncut Gems
meets Rounders meets reality.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
First the Louver.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Heist in Paris this weekend and now a gambling sting.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
With the FBI.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
In the NBA, it's the Roaring twenties apparently, welcome into
the Herd in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
His capone's still here? WHOA what is happening?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
If you have not heard NBA current and active NBA
coach Chauncey Billups four, MVP in the finals, has been arrested.
So is Damon Jones and Terry Rozier. So, first of all,
I used to work in Vegas for seven years. I
saw a lot of bad actors. The mob was still
in Vegas, So I don't get real precious on this stuff.
(01:31):
For years and years. I mean, you can go back
to Henry Hill, Boston College in the seventies. People go
into prison over this stuff. You can go back to
the Romans and the Chariots. Gambling in sports has been
intertwined forever, and the mafia is often part of it.
Tim Donneghe, the NBA investigation Shoho Tani, the interpreter. I
always look at stories like this as a good thing.
(01:54):
I want to protect our sports. I want to protect
the sanctity of these sports. So when story like this
come out and they're uncovered and discovered and there's indictments
and these are all accusations, but it's a four year
process by the FBI, about seven million dollars, victims lost
(02:16):
hours and hours of videotape.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And I've been reading.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
This stuff for the last forty five minutes to an hour,
and these are accusations. I'll try to simplify it as
much as I can and give you my take on it.
So Damon Jones, Terry Rosier, Chauncey Billins. So it's all
illegal gambling. It's eleven states spanned across eleven states, thirty
(02:43):
individuals arrested. Thirteen of them are mafia members LaCOSA and Oustra,
that's the Italian mafia. So these are two separate incidents.
So the NBA one is six defendants, Damon Jones, Terry Rosier. Basically,
they leveraged their connections to place prop bets. For instance,
(03:07):
Terry rose Ear in a game in March two years ago,
feigned an injury so he would be pulled out of
a game and all the unders on the prop bets
would hit. And a guy who's made over one hundred
million dollars apparently one a couple hundred thousand dollars for
doing it from real bad actors. Not sure why you'd
(03:28):
do that. Maybe he was in huge debt. But they're
two separate indictments. The poker fraud's been going on forever
in basements all across the world. Okay, so the poker
fraud stuff, I mean, let me just read some of this.
The technology was hidden cameras, special contact lenses, glasses that
could read mark cards, X ray poker tables, that could
(03:51):
read cards face down. There were people off site from
the decks that were getting information feeding it back to
people who were playing in the game. In those games,
there were some NBA players like Damon Jones is mentioned
in this accusation, these arrests, and again, it the poker stuff,
and that's been happening forever. It's happening this morning, and
(04:11):
it's happening tonight, all over the country, all over the globe.
That stuff, it's it's it's casino meets rounders. It's intense.
I don't play poker. I have friends who do you know,
they joke about stuff like this. The NBA stuff is
the stuff we all worry about primarily, right, that's the
stuff we worry about. Tim Donneghe, Henry Hill, Boston College.
(04:34):
There was that NASU investigation. Vegas often tells the leagues,
Vegas doesn't want cheaters. Vegas their margins are fins. Sports
betters are smarter than ever. I mean last week or
the week before, Joe Fann crushed the books. So you
fans are smarter than ever. Vegas doesn't want to see
this stuff. Vegas wants to get this stuff out. So
(04:57):
and I lived in Vegas, for seven years, and sports
ambling in the mafia been around forever. There were accusations
forever around Tark.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
None of it ever proven. I don't believe any of it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But players were in casinos and there's bad actors everywhere,
and he was always terribly aware of it and preached
to his players stay out of those casinos. And I
covered a program that had that stuff hovering over him
for years and years and years. I didn't believe any
of it, none of it just it was just oh,
as part of the fabric and casinos and gambling and
(05:29):
bad guys and basketball coaches, and so my takeaway on
all this stuff is this is serious business. The poker
stuff happening forever, the NBA stuff. They just signed these
massive contracts. This is an awful day for Adam Silver.
Just an awful day for Adam Silver and the people
I know in sports. They tell athletes don't do it,
(05:52):
they tell them to stay away. I've always worried more
about officials than athletes. My first job was covering a
basketball team in Vegas, and I'm I'm telling you, UNLV
was so aware of it, so concerned about it, so
frightened about it, preached to the athletes constantly, and good
for them. They they ninety nine point nine point nine
percent of the time except for one person that got involved.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's a hot tub.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It was that.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I remember waking up in Vegas one year Spokesman review.
The ad was Dennis Friendfrock and there was a Richard
the fixer. Perry was in a hot tub with a
couple of players. Blew up the program. This stuff's been
going on forever ever. So my takeaway in this I
don't want to get precious on it. I would love
to get Cash Betel on the show today. Here there
(06:37):
was a press conference for forty five minutes this morning,
and here's Cash Betel.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Today.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
We're here in New York to announce a historic arrest
across a wide, sweeping criminal enterprise that envelops both the
NBA and La Casinostra. But as you now know, individuals
such as Chauncy Phillips, Damon Jones, and Terry Rozier were
taking into custody today former current NBA players and coaches.
(07:04):
What you don't know is that this is an illegal
gambling operation and sports rigging operation that spanned the course
of years. The FBI led a coordinative takedown across eleven
states to arrest over thirty individuals today responsible for this case,
which is very much ongoing.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So the one thing I read there was some video
that surfaced last year on the internet. Like all of you,
I'm on my phone sometimes with Terry Rozier and really
ugly turnovers. The FBI says that Rozier told the defendants
that he was going to leave a game March two
years ago. The defendants then placed a couple hundred thousand
dollars in wagers on under on prop bets. He feigns
(07:41):
an injury, they take him out.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
It hits.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It says there were tens of thousands of dollars in profits. Again,
I want these stories uncovered. I want to protect the
sanctity of our sports. I don't get precious.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I'm not naive. I know what goes on.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
My first job was covering a Vegas team where Richard
the fixer Perry in a hot tub showed up one
day in the view journal. You can look it up online.
I woke up read it and thought, oh, my world's imploded.
So I just think chariot races, the Romans gambling mafia
uncut gems. It's live in living color, and here we
(08:18):
are today with it once again in my life. I
feel like this about the fifteenth time something like that.
The Donneghe stuff was unbelievable when it happened, and Donighie
for years and years said I didn't change outcomes.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I just wanted to hit the over.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I just called fowls like validating it, rationalizing it. So
we'll keep you posted now before this story. Last night,
when I went to bed, it was a normal story,
well abnormal. The second best player in the league, and
maybe the first in about three months is Wemby. Forty points,
(08:52):
fifteen rebounds, three blocks, no turnovers, seventy percent from the field.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
What is he twenty one right now?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I think he's the second starting last night, the second
most dominating player in the league. Luca can't change a
game defensively, either can Sga Jokich isn't much of a defender,
but he is so great offensively. He basically carried Denver
to a title. When he's off the floor, they're a
non playoff team. When he's on the floor, they can
win the title. It's the only player in the league,
maybe outside of Yiannis, that could do that. I think
(09:20):
there are five great players in the NBA, and they're
all international right now, Jokich, Wemby, Luca Jannis and SGA.
But what I watched last night, I kind of felt
watching it is and those are clearly the five best players.
They're all international, and the NBA is going to an
interesting thing. No more dynasties. Adam Silver doesn't want dynasty,
so they have these aprons, so it's so punitive to
(09:41):
owners to stack rosters. And the second thing is all
the best players are international, and keep your eye on
Elbrin shengn of Houston, who's twenty three, made an All
Star Game at twenty two and is ascending fast. He
is notably, clearly and inarguably better than Kevin Durant right
now today, NBA may market Durant. Shan Gun's a better
(10:03):
player and like improving every thirty games. So it's a
fascinating time in the NBA. I love watching Jokic. I
know a lot of people think it's boring. I covered
our Venus Sabonis in Portland. I thought he was the
best passer on the team, the best shooter on the team,
and I didn't even see him. He was in Lithuania
first prime, I didn't even get the best of him,
and I thought he was an unbelievable basketball player. Jokic
(10:25):
is notably better than Sabonis, and Sabonis was on that
Blazer team that made the finals or almost made the finals,
got beating the Lakers in seven with Kobe and Shack,
and I thought Sabonis was the most skilled player, way
past his prime. So I think last night it's just
we're watching the kid. The kid had forty points in
thirty minutes. Thirty minutes, forty points, all those rebounds, seventy
(10:50):
percent from the field. So I think at some point,
maybe before the All Star Break, Wemby will be the
second best player in this league. I mean, it's he's
putting up. He's going to get to fifty points in
thirty minutes here pretty quick. Those are Wilt numbers, except
Wilt couldn't hoist and hit threes and didn't have a
crossover dribble. So last night, and by the way, Spurs
have a great starting five. Maybe they are the next dynasty.
(11:13):
But watching him last night, I'm just thinking, Wow, he's
not Jokice today, but he could be soon. And here's
Wenby after.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Much morning control of myself.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
The mind, I'm not worried about because I saw what
it's like to be confronted with, you know, potentially losing
a lot, whether it's your career or you're health, you know.
So I'm not thinking disre granted anymore. But the body, it's, uh,
it's I'm having more fun that I'm not struggling to
(11:54):
move as much, you know, and I know I'm still
need to get better.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I'm still going to get better.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, he's had to put on twenty five pounds of muscle.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
He is just I mean, you're watching last night.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I sat there with my wife and I said, see
that guy in the bright shoes, He's gonna be the
best player in the NBA, either by the end of
tonight or the end of the season. That was unbelievable.
And it's not like Dallas is a small team. Dallas's
front lines the deepest in the league forty points thirty minutes.
(12:26):
Dallas has six eleven seven foot guys. As Jay Billis said,
he may have them look like sixth graders, But that
is the second biggest story with the NBA today.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
All right, bring in j Mack.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
You know, it's just it's interesting J Mack because my
first job out of college was covering UNLV and I
loved it, and I had a hot and cold relationship
with a late great Jerry Tarkeenan. But I woke up
one morning it was a Sunday morning and the local
paper had a notorious game fixer just in a hot
tub with a couple of the players. And it was
never the same program, and they each four years to
(13:01):
keep players out of casinos, and the U and LB
did a really good job at the time. He tark
really tried. But it's Vegas, it's you know, and the
mafia was there. So I feel like I've lived in
this kind of weird world forever. And I read this
story this morning. I when I read the poker stuff,
I don't play poker. It did read like Rounders. I mean,
James Bond meets Casino meets Rounders meets uncut Gems, the
(13:23):
NBA stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
What was your first reaction to it. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
I got to choose my words carefully. You know, it's
obviously a big story.
Speaker 8 (13:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
The FBI and the NBA met with Terry Rozier multiple.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Times in twenty twenty three. H he was cleared by
the NBA.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
I guess maybe the FBI found some new folks willing
to say some stuff, so we got to see what
happens there. The poker stuff, to me is fascinating. Those
poker games. I'm sure you've played in some poker games.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I plays.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'm not a poker player. What's interesting You never played
in a poker game.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
No?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
No, I mean I played poker, but not in big
poker games I played. You know, I'm on a flight
with somebody and my wife or something like that. But
I mean, I'm more willing to do a backgammoner solitaire.
But when you read, when you read the poker stuff
in this accusation, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It is. It is, There's all it is. Really. You
know that scene in a casino Ocean's eleven. Oh you're
talking about fascinating.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, I mean, we had the Louver heist, we have this.
It's like, folks don't get precious. I mean, in my career,
I've had literalty media people text me, I'm very disappointed.
You don't take this stuff as serious, and I'm like, oh,
grow up, stop being precious. Chariots, romans, betting mafia. It's
been happening forever, and Gambling's legal Supreme Court said, yep,
(14:39):
you can gamble in America. We were way behind Europe.
So don't don't get don't get precious. And there's warning labels.
I read warning labels all the time if I have
a gambling sponsor. So but I will say when I
woke up this morning and saw Chauncey Billups name, I
would not have guessed Chauncey Billups. He was always one
of the smarter, headier, less professional. These are just allegations
(15:02):
playing in a poker game.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Not a big deal.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
You know.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
Let's see the other stuff that comes out. Uh, you know,
Chauncey Billups made over one hundred million.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Dollars in his career. He's an NBA head coach. I'll
just leave it at that.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
Like I playing in a poker game, Okay, I get it,
but like being a part of it, like I need
to wait and see. Just remember with the Otani interpreter,
everybody rushed the judgment, oh we did.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
These gamble we did? It was like whoa, whoa wait
a minute, we didn't we did?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
We did not.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Of course, not.
Speaker 7 (15:29):
I'm gonna I'm gonna give these guys a benefit of
the doubt. We'll see the evidence and then if you
want to come in off the top rope, go for it.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
But I gotta wait and see. Yeah, no, that's reasonable.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 9 (15:47):
Hey it's me Rock Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast,
Inside the Parker for twenty two minutes of pipeing hop,
baseball talk, featuring the biggest name the newsmakers in sport.
Whether you believe in analytics or the ie test, We've
got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday,
(16:08):
so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the
Parker with Rob Parker on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So I was singing about this, The Ben Johnson Bears,
the Caleb William Ben Johnson Chicago Bears are really interesting
and we're all kind of watching it whether it hits
or fails. I think it's gonna hit, but it is interesting.
Ben Johnson, when he was in Detroit, was with Jared Goff,
(16:37):
and this morning we went and looked at Ben Johnson's
first six games with Caleb Williams and his first six
games with Jared Goff, and you know what, you see
identical numbers. Caleb just wins more so two things. Three
things are very clear. There's clearly progress with Caleb Williams
and the Bears offense this.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Year to last.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And it also proves most of you weren't watching Jared
Goff in the twenty twenty two Lions.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
That Lions team, they had Homer on Saint Brown, o
line Pff had at top ten, They had Pine Suel,
they had two good running backs including DeAndre Swift Jamaal Williams.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It was a good team.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
They had a lot of good players, and they weren't
very good, and nobody was watching that team, and everybody's
watching this team. The only time you watched that Lions
team last game of the year, when they went to
Lambeau and beat Aaron Rodgers and not Green Bay out
of the playoffs, and that was Aaron's last game.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
As a Packer.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
That's when you first watched them. The difference is the Bears,
We've been watching it since June. That's when we've been
watching this Bears team. So I think, and here's the
thing is is that Caleb Williams was under a microscope
his first start at Oklahoma. I think he replaced Spencer Rattlers.
I mean it was like, oh, first start Oklahoma, then
at USC, then last year, then this year. Jared Goff,
(17:51):
you didn't watch them in Detroit until that game in
Green Bay. And so here are facts about Caleb Williams
and the Bears and Ben Johnson through six games. These
are facts. Looked it up this morning. He is taking
far fewer sacks. That was my number one concern, not yards,
not touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
He's taken fewer.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Sacks, he has a higher passer rating, and the Bears
lead the NFL in big plays per game.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It is working. It is absolutely working.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's a little rough the operational side of it's a
little clonky about twice a game. But Greg Olsen came
on the show earlier and said it's fine right now.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Franchises fail young quarterbacks more than young quarterbacks fail franchises,
and I think you're seeing it with what Kevin O'Connell
is doing with some of these rebirth of Sam Darnold
who now continued it in Seattle, and you're seeing what
goes on with so many of these quarterbacks that were
left for dead. Fit is such an important part of
all this. And then you factor in just how young
(18:52):
Caleb is and how fresh he is in his NFL career.
I think there's been great growth.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Absolutely, We're just watching this and we didn't watch the
Lions until.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The following year when we all went.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh yeah, like most of us were watching Stafford of
the Rams way more than golf to the Lions until
that Packer game. And then the following year they came
out and you're like, is Detroit good? What differences? We're
just watching every snap Caleb takes, less sacks, higher passer
rating lead the NFL in big plays. Can be a
little clunky, but it's good. There's no question. I'll say this, it's.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Going to work.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's just how unrealistic are the critics this week, Ravens.
That is a test and I believe Lamarro play.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Neon Easter not a Empacific. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Herd Weekdays in Neon Easter, not
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Speaker 1 (19:47):
Let's take a deep breath talk about something much more positive,
a World Series, which I think is going to be
really competitive. Everybody thinks the Dodgers, oh they're Toronto, Vlad
Springer starting pitch, home field advantage Toronto is a handful.
And Dave Roberts, manager of the Dodgers, is joining us live.
(20:09):
You know, it's interesting. We all know in baseball, good
to see you again, Skip, Great to see you, Davis.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Always thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
We all know in baseball that you know, momentum is
the next day's pitcher. But there are little bits of
wisdom you can take. Even though every postseason run is different.
Last year, you guys were up against it. I mean,
I can remember bullpen games against the Podres and I'm like,
I'm not sure the Dodgers are getting.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Out of this series. You've been more dominant this year.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Is there anything, though, Dave, you can take from last
year's playoff run little notes or bits of wisdom and say, guys,
remember that from last year to this year.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
You know what, I think what it comes down to,
and I think a lot of people talk about I
absolutely agree with your momentumus next day starting pitcher, and
certainly the Blue Jays have got some momentum. I feel
we've got momentum. I think what I've taken away is
the urgency piece of it. And how do you get
to the urgency piece? And I think the way I
(21:08):
frame it to our guys is we're in a street fight.
And I think that when you have that street fight
mentality that lends itself to urgency and every pitch, every play,
and you, you know, kind of take the momentum, embrace
it and don't let off the gas. And I think
right now, if you see our ball club play, we're
(21:29):
playing with that street fighterality versus that kind of season
boxing mentality.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
The blake Snell Yoshi, So I went on the air
full disclosure. I said, I love Dave Roberts. I would
to let Snell go because I just want to win
the first game of the series. I don't care Yoshi.
I said, okay, we got one in the bag. I
go to the pen on that. I thought it was
really cool for you to come out and say some
of this has gut feeling.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
I'm sitting there with the the.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Steps, so let's talk a little bit about that because
baseball managers, it doesn't It could be you or Aaron Boone,
it could be anybody. You guys get criticized for those moments.
It's the seventh that's when all of us think we
should be manager. What is that guy doing for you?
You mentioned that you were watching Snell or you watch Yosi.
(22:20):
Do you talk to him during a game or do
you want to stay away from that? Is it kind
of a body language sense on I'm gonna let him
go or I'm gonna pull him.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
It's it's knowing the player. It's knowing it's knowing the player.
I mean, that's my job essentially. And I think the
thing is is that you know my job is to
know my players. I definitely don't get it right all
the time, but I feel like my process and kind
of how I know how to manage guys for the
short the long term is pretty sound. I think the
(22:52):
great thing Colin about baseball is because if you look
at you know, basketball is so quick. You can't coach
basketball in real time. You can't change defense as a
fan right football you could probably do it a little bit,
but baseball is something where every fan has that opportunity
to essentially manage. But I do feel like trusting my players,
(23:14):
knowing my players, knowing my coaches. I've got a sound process.
But I was right there with you and then that
Blake Smell thing was fifty to fifty. And you know,
right now we're watching Roki and to put him in
the pen, that's a gut feeling that I feel like
I can trust him in big spots where that wasn't easy.
And right now, you know, I trust my players. I
love my players, and I think again, we're playing good baseball.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
It's interesting, I said before the playoffs, I said, in
my lifetime, I've seen teams with great bullpens win the
World Series. I think the Royals years ago had it,
and they didn't have necessarily great roster, but if they
led in the six, they won the game. I said,
I've never seen a team with a shaky bullpen win
a World Series. I said, I don't think the Dodgers
can and then suddenly get solved. Roki moved to the bullpen.
(24:03):
Take me to the part in the season. It could
have been you, and Andrew Friedman. It could have been
you and your pitching coaches and talking that you just decided, listen,
we got to make some alterations. We got to pivot here.
He's young, he's got great stuff. We're gonna we're gonna
move him. Like, what were those ongoing or was there
an epiphany or a moment that you just said, we
(24:25):
can't win a pennant with this current bullpen?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
How did that process work?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
You know what? I think that Okay, there's two parts
of this. I think with Roki if you look back
at April, where you see there were visuals photographs of him,
you know, teary eyed in the pen, you know, just distraught, disappointed, scared,
word all that stuff, right, and then so just trying
(24:52):
to get him back to health, trying to nurse his mindset.
His physical being back was number one. And then as
he kind of made his way back and trying to
build him up, appreciating the fact that we've already had
enough starters so we weren't going to use him in
that starter role. And then going to him with me
and Andrew and the pitching guys and said, hey man,
(25:14):
you have an opportunity if you want to take on
a bullpen. Roll don't know what the rule is going
to look like. This is an opportunity for you to
impact twenty twenty five, and basically right your twenty twenty
five season, he was like, I'm in. And then so
we look at the calendar. We had literally two opportunities
in the regular season to give him an opportunity to
(25:34):
pitch out of the pen for us. It showed really well.
And then I think in the Cincinnati Wildcard Series there
is a spot that I was like, you know what,
we're either going to sink or swim. We got to
see what it looks like, and I ran him out there.
He performed, and then from then it's just like the
rest is history. He started getting some momentum, and even
in that Philly no I think it was the I
(25:57):
don't know if it was a Brewer outing where it
didn't look good or the Philly outing, and you know,
I was determined to running back out there and not
run from him, so he can kind of keep that confidence.
And so I give the organization Roalkie a lot of
credit for kind of riding the ship. And then the
other part of it is like when you're looking at
the postseason, you're trying to get the best arms you
(26:19):
can for the postseason, so you know, using gloss Now
out of the pen, using Emmett Sheen out of the pen.
So it wasn't really kind of what girl brought us
to the dance as far as the pen is who
we're going to go with. But at the end of
the day, though Colin I've said it, we're going to
go with our best arms. And if you can get
your best arms, and right now, our best arms are
(26:40):
the starting pitchers. If those guys can take down the
most outs, we're going to be in a good spot.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, it's funny about analytics. The term I always use
is analytics because I think in baseball, when the postseason comes,
the numbers are the numbers.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
But there are moments when.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You're like I may used to have I may have
to use a starter in the PA guys all hands
on deck. So do you find yourself with analytics? They're
still important. But like I says, say this about the NBA,
the referees stop calling fouls in the postseason, so the
analytics get all screwed up. They just let them wrestle
(27:17):
and all of a sudden, you don't get to the
free throw line. In baseball, you manage differently in the postseason.
I mean you want Snell going. I mean to me,
I watch you, and I'm like, you wouldn't have let
Yoshi go? You would have gone to the pen if
that game's in June, would you not?
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Absolutely? It's funny is that word analytics And I somehow
got tied to analytics. And I don't use my eyes
or my gut, but I think that I managed, and
I watched the game, and so I think in the postseason,
I'm not saying put analytics aside, but you have got
to bet on players. You've got to bet on people,
(27:57):
and you've got to bet on heartbeat, and in that
I do think that analytics. The place for analytics for
me is the long haul one sixty two. Yes, yeah,
at the end of the day it plays out. But
when you're talking about one moment in time, is that
picture going to get that hitter out? Is that hitter
going to get a hit or take a good at
bat against that pitcher? Or are there nine guys that
(28:18):
I'm running out there? Do I field has the best
chance to score runs against that particular pitcher? That is
the that's a coin flip, that's heads or tails, and
that's what I bet on. You know that's how I
manage the postseason.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Well, we've seen this also.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I thought it was interesting the Mariners had Julio Rodriguez
and Cal Rawley at the top of their order and show, hey,
O Tani obviously leading off. And I've said this, I
zone in on baseball during the postseason. In the regular season,
it's almost like the radio sound of my summer. I
have the games on. I'm in and out of stuff.
(28:52):
There does it in my when I grew up, I mean,
you had Johnny bench was bat and cleanup, Pudge's bat
and cleanup right like you have your big gut Barry
Bonds three or four. Now you got power guys hitting
toward the top of the lineup, which I would would
imagine is they get more at bats. But it is
interesting how I mean, that's my take is I want
(29:13):
to Tani up as much as I can get him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Do you love that? Or is just that the reality
of the way the game is played?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Because I kind of love my big bombs, you know,
I want you know, I.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Like him in the three four five spot. How do
you land on that?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I love the way and I think for me, it's
like anything where you want to continue to evolve and grow.
Where when I was growing up as you were, same
time period, showhad would be hitting you know, three or four.
But I think that the way that understated that you
want to get your best hitters as many at bats
as possible. That's how you win baseball games. And I
(29:49):
can tell, you know, Bruce Bochie right now or Jim
Tracy right now, he should hit me leadoff versus Randy Johnson.
If I'm put to play center field, I should have
hit ninth. And those are things that you've got to evolve.
And Johnny bench facing Nolan Ryan. Maybe Johnny could have
(30:11):
hit fifth or six and maybe you know, but that's
the way the game has evolved. And I do think
that you got to kind of appreciate that. And so
I just don't want to be beholden to one lineup.
I think our guys have evolved. But I do feel that,
you know, having Show at the top Mookie two, I
flipped flip Freddie and Will Smithko and things like that,
(30:33):
because it's kind of you know, the little we can
go deeper calling, you know, where it's like you get
a tough lefty to give attacks to get to Freddy
a third time those are little nuances of setting the lineup.
But I do think that having your best hitters take
the most of that's makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, and by the way, it does help that Mooky
and show Hey also have wheels so they can move.
That helps as well. By the way, my favorite Dave
Roberts moment. You're a very humble guy, but this piece
of audio made me laugh. Let's play it.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Oh, this is a one team, one dream operation. And
I'll tell you, before this season started, they said the
Dodgers are ruining baseball. Let's get four more wins and
really ruin baseball.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Come on, Dave, that's funny. I like that, Dave.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Here's the thing is that everyone trolls me, and so
I figured, you know what, I'm gonna flip it on
its head and troll some people that are trying to
create this crazy narrative that the Dodgers are ruining baseball.
I will tell you this, call it. And you know this,
Baseball viewership is at an all time high. Baseball players
are better than they've ever been. We are going to
(31:47):
have more eyeballs watching this World Series than ever Because
of the country of Canada, US and Japan and beyond right.
So obviously the Dodgers are not ruining baseball. It's in
a great state. And I was just kind of taking
a dig at these crazy people that say that what
we do, and I think we do it really well.
We're running baseball. So that was my little dig.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, by the way I said this, Tommy Edmund was
hitting two sixty five for the Cardinals. You got him.
He becomes the NLCS MVP. Max Munsey was cut.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
By the A's. Now he leaves the Dodgers in all
time home runs.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
This idea that it's not just it's just money, it's research,
it's development, it's scouting, it's managing. I've always said that
the most. I said this earlier today. There's an anti
Californian sentiment in this country. Sometimes everybody picks on California.
The weather's great, the mountains, the beaches. The truth is
it's a very likable team. I believe the reason Rokie
(32:42):
will take a bullpen roll.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I truly believe this is because.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
He knows there's no ego, and he knows you could
go to showhand and say I'm betting you third to night.
I bet I think you've created. I've said this the
Yankees or the Astros. You can hate those guys. This
is not a hatable team. And I think to some degree,
I think Roki says, yeah, I'll do it. And part
of it is that's the culture that you've created, is
(33:09):
it not?
Speaker 4 (33:10):
It is called And that's the biggest compliment I can get.
Because we have great players, we have a great organization.
But I feel that in the long season, to be
really good every year, to have guys buy in is
what a lot of head coaches and managers talk about.
To get superstars to buy into whatever you ask of
them and to be selfless' that's the secret sauce. And
(33:33):
for me as a manager, that's something I'm really proud of.
So I appreciate you bringing that to life.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Finally, just one I'm only going to ask. It's not
a favor, but just consider if you've got an open base,
the game is tied, and George Springer's coming up, just
consider walking you. Just consider that you don't have to
pitch to him. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, but
Toronto is really good. I mean, I know you've watched
you've watched them. I think this matchup. You've got what
(34:01):
concerns you about the Jays, You know.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
What, they're really athletic. I think that you mentioned Springer,
who's a big game player. He's on a heater right now,
had a great, you know, last couple of months. That
guy right there, Vladimir scares the heck out of me.
And they're just a gritty group. They're very similar to
our club and they're tough. I think Ross Atkins, I
(34:29):
think Marsha Power. They've done a great job with this club.
And you know, you Savage. We don't know him, so
there's some unfamiliarity there. But like you said, it's going
to be a great series. Joe Davis I talked to
the other day, said he's never heard a louder stadium
than he heard here at the Rogers Center. So it's
going to be a lot of fun. It's going to
be great. I think the city has been waiting a
long time for this, and you know, I'm looking forward
(34:51):
to It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Thanks for giving us fifteen minutes. Dave Roberts always so
great to our show, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Skip all right, thank you, appreciate you all right.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Dave Roberts, I think it's going to be a really
good world series, and I think it's a really interesting
story that he talks about Roki, that he went to him,
he and Andrew Friedman, the pitching coach, and hey, will
you come out of the pen, and he said, I'll
do it. And I think that's the culture. I said
it earlier. There've been hateable teams. I mean you go
back to that Mets team with Lenny Dykes, Drude. There
have been the characters everywhere. This isn't one of those teams.
(35:22):
It's like, good guys,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh, it is a very different day in the Herd.
We are live.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
On a day many of us, most of us woke up,
rushed to the Internet and saw a story that was
a combination of James Bond meets Casino meets Uncut Gems
meets Rounders meets reality.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
First the Louver.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Heist in Paris this weekend and now a gambling sting.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
With the FBI.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
In the NBA, it's the Roaring twenties apparently, welcome into
the Herd in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
His capone's still here? WHOA what is happening?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
If you have not heard NBA current and active NBA
coach Chauncey Billups four, MVP in the finals, has been arrested.
So is Damon Jones and Terry Rozier. So, first of all,
I used to work in Vegas for seven years. I
saw a lot of bad actors. The mob was still
in Vegas, So I don't get real precious on this stuff.
(01:31):
For years and years. I mean, you can go back
to Henry Hill, Boston College in the seventies. People go
into prison over this stuff. You can go back to
the Romans and the Chariots. Gambling in sports has been
intertwined forever, and the mafia is often part of it.
Tim Donneghe, the NBA investigation Shoho Tani, the interpreter. I
always look at stories like this as a good thing.
(01:54):
I want to protect our sports. I want to protect
the sanctity of these sports. So when story like this
come out and they're uncovered and discovered and there's indictments
and these are all accusations, but it's a four year
process by the FBI, about seven million dollars, victims lost
(02:16):
hours and hours of videotape.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And I've been reading.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
This stuff for the last forty five minutes to an hour,
and these are accusations. I'll try to simplify it as
much as I can and give you my take on it.
So Damon Jones, Terry Rosier, Chauncey Billins. So it's all
illegal gambling. It's eleven states spanned across eleven states, thirty
(02:43):
individuals arrested. Thirteen of them are mafia members LaCOSA and Oustra,
that's the Italian mafia. So these are two separate incidents.
So the NBA one is six defendants, Damon Jones, Terry Rosier. Basically,
they leveraged their connections to place prop bets. For instance,
(03:07):
Terry rose Ear in a game in March two years ago,
feigned an injury so he would be pulled out of
a game and all the unders on the prop bets
would hit. And a guy who's made over one hundred
million dollars apparently one a couple hundred thousand dollars for
doing it from real bad actors. Not sure why you'd
(03:28):
do that. Maybe he was in huge debt. But they're
two separate indictments. The poker fraud's been going on forever
in basements all across the world. Okay, so the poker
fraud stuff, I mean, let me just read some of this.
The technology was hidden cameras, special contact lenses, glasses that
could read mark cards, X ray poker tables, that could
(03:51):
read cards face down. There were people off site from
the decks that were getting information feeding it back to
people who were playing in the game. In those games,
there were some NBA players like Damon Jones is mentioned
in this accusation, these arrests, and again, it the poker stuff,
and that's been happening forever. It's happening this morning, and
(04:11):
it's happening tonight, all over the country, all over the globe.
That stuff, it's it's it's casino meets rounders. It's intense.
I don't play poker. I have friends who do you know,
they joke about stuff like this. The NBA stuff is
the stuff we all worry about primarily, right, that's the
stuff we worry about. Tim Donneghe, Henry Hill, Boston College.
(04:34):
There was that NASU investigation. Vegas often tells the leagues,
Vegas doesn't want cheaters. Vegas their margins are fins. Sports
betters are smarter than ever. I mean last week or
the week before, Joe Fann crushed the books. So you
fans are smarter than ever. Vegas doesn't want to see
this stuff. Vegas wants to get this stuff out. So
(04:57):
and I lived in Vegas, for seven years, and sports
ambling in the mafia been around forever. There were accusations
forever around Tark.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
None of it ever proven. I don't believe any of it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But players were in casinos and there's bad actors everywhere,
and he was always terribly aware of it and preached
to his players stay out of those casinos. And I
covered a program that had that stuff hovering over him
for years and years and years. I didn't believe any
of it, none of it just it was just oh,
as part of the fabric and casinos and gambling and
(05:29):
bad guys and basketball coaches, and so my takeaway on
all this stuff is this is serious business. The poker
stuff happening forever, the NBA stuff. They just signed these
massive contracts. This is an awful day for Adam Silver.
Just an awful day for Adam Silver and the people
I know in sports. They tell athletes don't do it,
(05:52):
they tell them to stay away. I've always worried more
about officials than athletes. My first job was covering a
basketball team in Vegas, and I'm I'm telling you, UNLV
was so aware of it, so concerned about it, so
frightened about it, preached to the athletes constantly, and good
for them. They they ninety nine point nine point nine
percent of the time except for one person that got involved.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's a hot tub.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It was that.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I remember waking up in Vegas one year Spokesman review.
The ad was Dennis Friendfrock and there was a Richard
the fixer. Perry was in a hot tub with a
couple of players. Blew up the program. This stuff's been
going on forever ever. So my takeaway in this I
don't want to get precious on it. I would love
to get Cash Betel on the show today. Here there
(06:37):
was a press conference for forty five minutes this morning,
and here's Cash Betel.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Today.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
We're here in New York to announce a historic arrest
across a wide, sweeping criminal enterprise that envelops both the
NBA and La Casinostra. But as you now know, individuals
such as Chauncy Phillips, Damon Jones, and Terry Rozier were
taking into custody today former current NBA players and coaches.
(07:04):
What you don't know is that this is an illegal
gambling operation and sports rigging operation that spanned the course
of years. The FBI led a coordinative takedown across eleven
states to arrest over thirty individuals today responsible for this case,
which is very much ongoing.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So the one thing I read there was some video
that surfaced last year on the internet. Like all of you,
I'm on my phone sometimes with Terry Rozier and really
ugly turnovers. The FBI says that Rozier told the defendants
that he was going to leave a game March two
years ago. The defendants then placed a couple hundred thousand
dollars in wagers on under on prop bets. He feigns
(07:41):
an injury, they take him out.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
It hits.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It says there were tens of thousands of dollars in profits. Again,
I want these stories uncovered. I want to protect the
sanctity of our sports. I don't get precious.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I'm not naive. I know what goes on.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
My first job was covering a Vegas team where Richard
the fixer Perry in a hot tub showed up one
day in the view journal. You can look it up online.
I woke up read it and thought, oh, my world's imploded.
So I just think chariot races, the Romans gambling mafia
uncut gems. It's live in living color, and here we
(08:18):
are today with it once again in my life. I
feel like this about the fifteenth time something like that.
The Donneghe stuff was unbelievable when it happened, and Donighie
for years and years said I didn't change outcomes.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I just wanted to hit the over.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I just called fowls like validating it, rationalizing it. So
we'll keep you posted now before this story. Last night,
when I went to bed, it was a normal story,
well abnormal. The second best player in the league, and
maybe the first in about three months is Wemby. Forty points,
(08:52):
fifteen rebounds, three blocks, no turnovers, seventy percent from the field.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
What is he twenty one right now?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I think he's the second starting last night, the second
most dominating player in the league. Luca can't change a
game defensively, either can Sga Jokich isn't much of a defender,
but he is so great offensively. He basically carried Denver
to a title. When he's off the floor, they're a
non playoff team. When he's on the floor, they can
win the title. It's the only player in the league,
maybe outside of Yiannis, that could do that. I think
(09:20):
there are five great players in the NBA, and they're
all international right now, Jokich, Wemby, Luca Jannis and SGA.
But what I watched last night, I kind of felt
watching it is and those are clearly the five best players.
They're all international, and the NBA is going to an
interesting thing. No more dynasties. Adam Silver doesn't want dynasty,
so they have these aprons, so it's so punitive to
(09:41):
owners to stack rosters. And the second thing is all
the best players are international, and keep your eye on
Elbrin shengn of Houston, who's twenty three, made an All
Star Game at twenty two and is ascending fast. He
is notably, clearly and inarguably better than Kevin Durant right
now today, NBA may market Durant. Shan Gun's a better
(10:03):
player and like improving every thirty games. So it's a
fascinating time in the NBA. I love watching Jokic. I
know a lot of people think it's boring. I covered
our Venus Sabonis in Portland. I thought he was the
best passer on the team, the best shooter on the team,
and I didn't even see him. He was in Lithuania
first prime, I didn't even get the best of him,
and I thought he was an unbelievable basketball player. Jokic
(10:25):
is notably better than Sabonis, and Sabonis was on that
Blazer team that made the finals or almost made the finals,
got beating the Lakers in seven with Kobe and Shack,
and I thought Sabonis was the most skilled player, way
past his prime. So I think last night it's just
we're watching the kid. The kid had forty points in
thirty minutes. Thirty minutes, forty points, all those rebounds, seventy
(10:50):
percent from the field. So I think at some point,
maybe before the All Star Break, Wemby will be the
second best player in this league. I mean, it's he's
putting up. He's going to get to fifty points in
thirty minutes here pretty quick. Those are Wilt numbers, except
Wilt couldn't hoist and hit threes and didn't have a
crossover dribble. So last night, and by the way, Spurs
have a great starting five. Maybe they are the next dynasty.
(11:13):
But watching him last night, I'm just thinking, Wow, he's
not Jokice today, but he could be soon. And here's
Wenby after.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Much morning control of myself.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
The mind, I'm not worried about because I saw what
it's like to be confronted with, you know, potentially losing
a lot, whether it's your career or you're health, you know.
So I'm not thinking disre granted anymore. But the body, it's, uh,
it's I'm having more fun that I'm not struggling to
(11:54):
move as much, you know, and I know I'm still
need to get better.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I'm still going to get better.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, he's had to put on twenty five pounds of muscle.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
He is just I mean, you're watching last night.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I sat there with my wife and I said, see
that guy in the bright shoes, He's gonna be the
best player in the NBA, either by the end of
tonight or the end of the season. That was unbelievable.
And it's not like Dallas is a small team. Dallas's
front lines the deepest in the league forty points thirty minutes.
(12:26):
Dallas has six eleven seven foot guys. As Jay Billis said,
he may have them look like sixth graders, But that
is the second biggest story with the NBA today.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
All right, bring in j Mack.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
You know, it's just it's interesting J Mack because my
first job out of college was covering UNLV and I
loved it, and I had a hot and cold relationship
with a late great Jerry Tarkeenan. But I woke up
one morning it was a Sunday morning and the local
paper had a notorious game fixer just in a hot
tub with a couple of the players. And it was
never the same program, and they each four years to
(13:01):
keep players out of casinos, and the U and LB
did a really good job at the time. He tark
really tried. But it's Vegas, it's you know, and the
mafia was there. So I feel like I've lived in
this kind of weird world forever. And I read this
story this morning. I when I read the poker stuff,
I don't play poker. It did read like Rounders. I mean,
James Bond meets Casino meets Rounders meets uncut Gems, the
(13:23):
NBA stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
What was your first reaction to it. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
I got to choose my words carefully. You know, it's
obviously a big story.
Speaker 8 (13:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
The FBI and the NBA met with Terry Rozier multiple.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Times in twenty twenty three. H he was cleared by
the NBA.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
I guess maybe the FBI found some new folks willing
to say some stuff, so we got to see what
happens there. The poker stuff, to me is fascinating. Those
poker games. I'm sure you've played in some poker games.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I plays.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'm not a poker player. What's interesting You never played
in a poker game.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
No?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
No, I mean I played poker, but not in big
poker games I played. You know, I'm on a flight
with somebody and my wife or something like that. But
I mean, I'm more willing to do a backgammoner solitaire.
But when you read, when you read the poker stuff
in this accusation, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It is. It is, There's all it is. Really. You
know that scene in a casino Ocean's eleven. Oh you're
talking about fascinating.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, I mean, we had the Louver heist, we have this.
It's like, folks don't get precious. I mean, in my career,
I've had literalty media people text me, I'm very disappointed.
You don't take this stuff as serious, and I'm like, oh,
grow up, stop being precious. Chariots, romans, betting mafia. It's
been happening forever, and Gambling's legal Supreme Court said, yep,
(14:39):
you can gamble in America. We were way behind Europe.
So don't don't get don't get precious. And there's warning labels.
I read warning labels all the time if I have
a gambling sponsor. So but I will say when I
woke up this morning and saw Chauncey Billups name, I
would not have guessed Chauncey Billups. He was always one
of the smarter, headier, less professional. These are just allegations
(15:02):
playing in a poker game.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Not a big deal.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
You know.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
Let's see the other stuff that comes out. Uh, you know,
Chauncey Billups made over one hundred million.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Dollars in his career. He's an NBA head coach. I'll
just leave it at that.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
Like I playing in a poker game, Okay, I get it,
but like being a part of it, like I need
to wait and see. Just remember with the Otani interpreter,
everybody rushed the judgment, oh we did.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
These gamble we did? It was like whoa, whoa wait
a minute, we didn't we did?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
We did not.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Of course, not.
Speaker 7 (15:29):
I'm gonna I'm gonna give these guys a benefit of
the doubt. We'll see the evidence and then if you
want to come in off the top rope, go for it.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
But I gotta wait and see. Yeah, no, that's reasonable.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 9 (15:47):
Hey it's me Rock Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast,
Inside the Parker for twenty two minutes of pipeing hop,
baseball talk, featuring the biggest name the newsmakers in sport.
Whether you believe in analytics or the ie test, We've
got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday,
(16:08):
so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the
Parker with Rob Parker on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So I was singing about this, The Ben Johnson Bears,
the Caleb William Ben Johnson Chicago Bears are really interesting
and we're all kind of watching it whether it hits
or fails. I think it's gonna hit, but it is interesting.
Ben Johnson, when he was in Detroit, was with Jared Goff,
(16:37):
and this morning we went and looked at Ben Johnson's
first six games with Caleb Williams and his first six
games with Jared Goff, and you know what, you see
identical numbers. Caleb just wins more so two things. Three
things are very clear. There's clearly progress with Caleb Williams
and the Bears offense this.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Year to last.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And it also proves most of you weren't watching Jared
Goff in the twenty twenty two Lions.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
That Lions team, they had Homer on Saint Brown, o
line Pff had at top ten, They had Pine Suel,
they had two good running backs including DeAndre Swift Jamaal Williams.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It was a good team.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
They had a lot of good players, and they weren't
very good, and nobody was watching that team, and everybody's
watching this team. The only time you watched that Lions
team last game of the year, when they went to
Lambeau and beat Aaron Rodgers and not Green Bay out
of the playoffs, and that was Aaron's last game.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
As a Packer.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
That's when you first watched them. The difference is the Bears,
We've been watching it since June. That's when we've been
watching this Bears team. So I think, and here's the
thing is is that Caleb Williams was under a microscope
his first start at Oklahoma. I think he replaced Spencer Rattlers.
I mean it was like, oh, first start Oklahoma, then
at USC, then last year, then this year. Jared Goff,
(17:51):
you didn't watch them in Detroit until that game in
Green Bay. And so here are facts about Caleb Williams
and the Bears and Ben Johnson through six games. These
are facts. Looked it up this morning. He is taking
far fewer sacks. That was my number one concern, not yards,
not touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
He's taken fewer.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Sacks, he has a higher passer rating, and the Bears
lead the NFL in big plays per game.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It is working. It is absolutely working.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's a little rough the operational side of it's a
little clonky about twice a game. But Greg Olsen came
on the show earlier and said it's fine right now.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Franchises fail young quarterbacks more than young quarterbacks fail franchises,
and I think you're seeing it with what Kevin O'Connell
is doing with some of these rebirth of Sam Darnold
who now continued it in Seattle, and you're seeing what
goes on with so many of these quarterbacks that were
left for dead. Fit is such an important part of
all this. And then you factor in just how young
(18:52):
Caleb is and how fresh he is in his NFL career.
I think there's been great growth.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Absolutely, We're just watching this and we didn't watch the
Lions until.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The following year when we all went.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh yeah, like most of us were watching Stafford of
the Rams way more than golf to the Lions until
that Packer game. And then the following year they came
out and you're like, is Detroit good? What differences? We're
just watching every snap Caleb takes, less sacks, higher passer
rating lead the NFL in big plays. Can be a
little clunky, but it's good. There's no question. I'll say this, it's.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Going to work.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's just how unrealistic are the critics this week, Ravens.
That is a test and I believe Lamarro play.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Neon Easter not a Empacific. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Herd Weekdays in Neon Easter, not
a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Let's take a deep breath talk about something much more positive,
a World Series, which I think is going to be
really competitive. Everybody thinks the Dodgers, oh they're Toronto, Vlad
Springer starting pitch, home field advantage Toronto is a handful.
And Dave Roberts, manager of the Dodgers, is joining us live.
(20:09):
You know, it's interesting. We all know in baseball, good
to see you again, Skip, Great to see you, Davis.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Always thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
We all know in baseball that you know, momentum is
the next day's pitcher. But there are little bits of
wisdom you can take. Even though every postseason run is different.
Last year, you guys were up against it. I mean,
I can remember bullpen games against the Podres and I'm like,
I'm not sure the Dodgers are getting.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Out of this series. You've been more dominant this year.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Is there anything, though, Dave, you can take from last
year's playoff run little notes or bits of wisdom and say, guys,
remember that from last year to this year.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
You know what, I think what it comes down to,
and I think a lot of people talk about I
absolutely agree with your momentumus next day starting pitcher, and
certainly the Blue Jays have got some momentum. I feel
we've got momentum. I think what I've taken away is
the urgency piece of it. And how do you get
to the urgency piece? And I think the way I
(21:08):
frame it to our guys is we're in a street fight.
And I think that when you have that street fight
mentality that lends itself to urgency and every pitch, every play,
and you, you know, kind of take the momentum, embrace
it and don't let off the gas. And I think
right now, if you see our ball club play, we're
(21:29):
playing with that street fighterality versus that kind of season
boxing mentality.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
The blake Snell Yoshi, So I went on the air
full disclosure. I said, I love Dave Roberts. I would
to let Snell go because I just want to win
the first game of the series. I don't care Yoshi.
I said, okay, we got one in the bag. I
go to the pen on that. I thought it was
really cool for you to come out and say some
of this has gut feeling.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
I'm sitting there with the the.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Steps, so let's talk a little bit about that because
baseball managers, it doesn't It could be you or Aaron Boone,
it could be anybody. You guys get criticized for those moments.
It's the seventh that's when all of us think we
should be manager. What is that guy doing for you?
You mentioned that you were watching Snell or you watch Yosi.
(22:20):
Do you talk to him during a game or do
you want to stay away from that? Is it kind
of a body language sense on I'm gonna let him
go or I'm gonna pull him.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
It's it's knowing the player. It's knowing it's knowing the player.
I mean, that's my job essentially. And I think the
thing is is that you know my job is to
know my players. I definitely don't get it right all
the time, but I feel like my process and kind
of how I know how to manage guys for the
short the long term is pretty sound. I think the
(22:52):
great thing Colin about baseball is because if you look
at you know, basketball is so quick. You can't coach
basketball in real time. You can't change defense as a
fan right football you could probably do it a little bit,
but baseball is something where every fan has that opportunity
to essentially manage. But I do feel like trusting my players,
(23:14):
knowing my players, knowing my coaches. I've got a sound process.
But I was right there with you and then that
Blake Smell thing was fifty to fifty. And you know,
right now we're watching Roki and to put him in
the pen, that's a gut feeling that I feel like
I can trust him in big spots where that wasn't easy.
And right now, you know, I trust my players. I
love my players, and I think again, we're playing good baseball.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
It's interesting, I said before the playoffs, I said, in
my lifetime, I've seen teams with great bullpens win the
World Series. I think the Royals years ago had it,
and they didn't have necessarily great roster, but if they
led in the six, they won the game. I said,
I've never seen a team with a shaky bullpen win
a World Series. I said, I don't think the Dodgers
can and then suddenly get solved. Roki moved to the bullpen.
(24:03):
Take me to the part in the season. It could
have been you, and Andrew Friedman. It could have been
you and your pitching coaches and talking that you just decided, listen,
we got to make some alterations. We got to pivot here.
He's young, he's got great stuff. We're gonna we're gonna
move him. Like, what were those ongoing or was there
an epiphany or a moment that you just said, we
(24:25):
can't win a pennant with this current bullpen?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
How did that process work?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
You know what? I think that Okay, there's two parts
of this. I think with Roki if you look back
at April, where you see there were visuals photographs of him,
you know, teary eyed in the pen, you know, just distraught, disappointed, scared,
word all that stuff, right, and then so just trying
(24:52):
to get him back to health, trying to nurse his mindset.
His physical being back was number one. And then as
he kind of made his way back and trying to
build him up, appreciating the fact that we've already had
enough starters so we weren't going to use him in
that starter role. And then going to him with me
and Andrew and the pitching guys and said, hey man,
(25:14):
you have an opportunity if you want to take on
a bullpen. Roll don't know what the rule is going
to look like. This is an opportunity for you to
impact twenty twenty five, and basically right your twenty twenty
five season, he was like, I'm in. And then so
we look at the calendar. We had literally two opportunities
in the regular season to give him an opportunity to
(25:34):
pitch out of the pen for us. It showed really well.
And then I think in the Cincinnati Wildcard Series there
is a spot that I was like, you know what,
we're either going to sink or swim. We got to
see what it looks like, and I ran him out there.
He performed, and then from then it's just like the
rest is history. He started getting some momentum, and even
in that Philly no I think it was the I
(25:57):
don't know if it was a Brewer outing where it
didn't look good or the Philly outing, and you know,
I was determined to running back out there and not
run from him, so he can kind of keep that confidence.
And so I give the organization Roalkie a lot of
credit for kind of riding the ship. And then the
other part of it is like when you're looking at
the postseason, you're trying to get the best arms you
(26:19):
can for the postseason, so you know, using gloss Now
out of the pen, using Emmett Sheen out of the pen.
So it wasn't really kind of what girl brought us
to the dance as far as the pen is who
we're going to go with. But at the end of
the day, though Colin I've said it, we're going to
go with our best arms. And if you can get
your best arms, and right now, our best arms are
(26:40):
the starting pitchers. If those guys can take down the
most outs, we're going to be in a good spot.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, it's funny about analytics. The term I always use
is analytics because I think in baseball, when the postseason comes,
the numbers are the numbers.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
But there are moments when.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You're like I may used to have I may have
to use a starter in the PA guys all hands
on deck. So do you find yourself with analytics? They're
still important. But like I says, say this about the NBA,
the referees stop calling fouls in the postseason, so the
analytics get all screwed up. They just let them wrestle
(27:17):
and all of a sudden, you don't get to the
free throw line. In baseball, you manage differently in the postseason.
I mean you want Snell going. I mean to me,
I watch you, and I'm like, you wouldn't have let
Yoshi go? You would have gone to the pen if
that game's in June, would you not?
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Absolutely? It's funny is that word analytics And I somehow
got tied to analytics. And I don't use my eyes
or my gut, but I think that I managed, and
I watched the game, and so I think in the postseason,
I'm not saying put analytics aside, but you have got
to bet on players. You've got to bet on people,
(27:57):
and you've got to bet on heartbeat, and in that
I do think that analytics. The place for analytics for
me is the long haul one sixty two. Yes, yeah,
at the end of the day it plays out. But
when you're talking about one moment in time, is that
picture going to get that hitter out? Is that hitter
going to get a hit or take a good at
bat against that pitcher? Or are there nine guys that
(28:18):
I'm running out there? Do I field has the best
chance to score runs against that particular pitcher? That is
the that's a coin flip, that's heads or tails, and
that's what I bet on. You know that's how I
manage the postseason.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Well, we've seen this also.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I thought it was interesting the Mariners had Julio Rodriguez
and Cal Rawley at the top of their order and show, hey,
O Tani obviously leading off. And I've said this, I
zone in on baseball during the postseason. In the regular season,
it's almost like the radio sound of my summer. I
have the games on. I'm in and out of stuff.
(28:52):
There does it in my when I grew up, I mean,
you had Johnny bench was bat and cleanup, Pudge's bat
and cleanup right like you have your big gut Barry
Bonds three or four. Now you got power guys hitting
toward the top of the lineup, which I would would
imagine is they get more at bats. But it is
interesting how I mean, that's my take is I want
(29:13):
to Tani up as much as I can get him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Do you love that? Or is just that the reality
of the way the game is played?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Because I kind of love my big bombs, you know,
I want you know, I.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Like him in the three four five spot. How do
you land on that?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I love the way and I think for me, it's
like anything where you want to continue to evolve and grow.
Where when I was growing up as you were, same
time period, showhad would be hitting you know, three or four.
But I think that the way that understated that you
want to get your best hitters as many at bats
as possible. That's how you win baseball games. And I
(29:49):
can tell, you know, Bruce Bochie right now or Jim
Tracy right now, he should hit me leadoff versus Randy Johnson.
If I'm put to play center field, I should have
hit ninth. And those are things that you've got to evolve.
And Johnny bench facing Nolan Ryan. Maybe Johnny could have
(30:11):
hit fifth or six and maybe you know, but that's
the way the game has evolved. And I do think
that you got to kind of appreciate that. And so
I just don't want to be beholden to one lineup.
I think our guys have evolved. But I do feel that,
you know, having Show at the top Mookie two, I
flipped flip Freddie and Will Smithko and things like that,
(30:33):
because it's kind of you know, the little we can
go deeper calling, you know, where it's like you get
a tough lefty to give attacks to get to Freddy
a third time those are little nuances of setting the lineup.
But I do think that having your best hitters take
the most of that's makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, and by the way, it does help that Mooky
and show Hey also have wheels so they can move.
That helps as well. By the way, my favorite Dave
Roberts moment. You're a very humble guy, but this piece
of audio made me laugh. Let's play it.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Oh, this is a one team, one dream operation. And
I'll tell you, before this season started, they said the
Dodgers are ruining baseball. Let's get four more wins and
really ruin baseball.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Come on, Dave, that's funny. I like that, Dave.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Here's the thing is that everyone trolls me, and so
I figured, you know what, I'm gonna flip it on
its head and troll some people that are trying to
create this crazy narrative that the Dodgers are ruining baseball.
I will tell you this, call it. And you know this,
Baseball viewership is at an all time high. Baseball players
are better than they've ever been. We are going to
(31:47):
have more eyeballs watching this World Series than ever Because
of the country of Canada, US and Japan and beyond right.
So obviously the Dodgers are not ruining baseball. It's in
a great state. And I was just kind of taking
a dig at these crazy people that say that what
we do, and I think we do it really well.
We're running baseball. So that was my little dig.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, by the way I said this, Tommy Edmund was
hitting two sixty five for the Cardinals. You got him.
He becomes the NLCS MVP. Max Munsey was cut.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
By the A's. Now he leaves the Dodgers in all
time home runs.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
This idea that it's not just it's just money, it's research,
it's development, it's scouting, it's managing. I've always said that
the most. I said this earlier today. There's an anti
Californian sentiment in this country. Sometimes everybody picks on California.
The weather's great, the mountains, the beaches. The truth is
it's a very likable team. I believe the reason Rokie
(32:42):
will take a bullpen roll.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I truly believe this is because.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
He knows there's no ego, and he knows you could
go to showhand and say I'm betting you third to night.
I bet I think you've created. I've said this the
Yankees or the Astros. You can hate those guys. This
is not a hatable team. And I think to some degree,
I think Roki says, yeah, I'll do it. And part
of it is that's the culture that you've created, is
(33:09):
it not?
Speaker 4 (33:10):
It is called And that's the biggest compliment I can get.
Because we have great players, we have a great organization.
But I feel that in the long season, to be
really good every year, to have guys buy in is
what a lot of head coaches and managers talk about.
To get superstars to buy into whatever you ask of
them and to be selfless' that's the secret sauce. And
(33:33):
for me as a manager, that's something I'm really proud of.
So I appreciate you bringing that to life.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Finally, just one I'm only going to ask. It's not
a favor, but just consider if you've got an open base,
the game is tied, and George Springer's coming up, just
consider walking you. Just consider that you don't have to
pitch to him. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, but
Toronto is really good. I mean, I know you've watched
you've watched them. I think this matchup. You've got what
(34:01):
concerns you about the Jays, You know.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
What, they're really athletic. I think that you mentioned Springer,
who's a big game player. He's on a heater right now,
had a great, you know, last couple of months. That
guy right there, Vladimir scares the heck out of me.
And they're just a gritty group. They're very similar to
our club and they're tough. I think Ross Atkins, I
(34:29):
think Marsha Power. They've done a great job with this club.
And you know, you Savage. We don't know him, so
there's some unfamiliarity there. But like you said, it's going
to be a great series. Joe Davis I talked to
the other day, said he's never heard a louder stadium
than he heard here at the Rogers Center. So it's
going to be a lot of fun. It's going to
be great. I think the city has been waiting a
long time for this, and you know, I'm looking forward
(34:51):
to It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Thanks for giving us fifteen minutes. Dave Roberts always so
great to our show, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Skip all right, thank you, appreciate you all right.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Dave Roberts, I think it's going to be a really
good world series, and I think it's a really interesting
story that he talks about Roki, that he went to him,
he and Andrew Friedman, the pitching coach, and hey, will
you come out of the pen, and he said, I'll
do it. And I think that's the culture. I said
it earlier. There've been hateable teams. I mean you go
back to that Mets team with Lenny Dykes, Drude. There
have been the characters everywhere. This isn't one of those teams.
(35:22):
It's like, good guys,
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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