November 11, 2025 • 36 mins
Colin Cowherd breaks down what’s gone wrong with Jordan Love and the Green Bay Packers offense after back-to-back losses and another sluggish 7-point performance. In his Week 11 Herd Hierarchy, Colin ranks the Top 10 NFL teams, explaining why the Kansas City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles are still dangerous — and why the Buffalo Bills and Packers have fallen out of the elite category
Plus, Fox Sports NFL analyst Greg Olsen joins the show to discuss the Chicago Bears’ thrilling comeback win over the New York Giants, calling it the most impressive game of Caleb Williams’ young NFL career
Tune in for sharp NFL analysis, insider insights, and bold takes that only Colin Cowherd delivers. Perfect for fans of NFL news, power rankings, quarterback debates, and postgame breakdowns
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Here we Go.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
It is a Tuesday all star lineup. Nick Wright, Greg
Olsen stop by one hour from now.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
The Herd Hierarchy. It is Veterans Day.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Thank you to the men and women who so nobly
serve our country. Thank you very much. Jmech we have
a show today. There's some questions on what we all
watched last night. It was it was a rough wat
you did. I made sure I got a nap. I
wanted to stay up late. Halfway through the game, I'm like, well,
(01:00):
why did I stay over for this? It's unwatchable, but
it does create a lot of interesting scenarios that packers
schedule pretty dicey going forward. Now that's Chicago's legit, So
let's start with this is Green Bay's problem A Jordan
Love issue, a Matt Lafleur issue, injuries to wide receivers
(01:22):
and tight end issue. Well whatever, They've regressed in almost
every offensive category three straight weeks. I don't feel like
Matt Lafleur has a ton of trust for Jordan Loves.
I mean, how many yards passing in the first half
thirty nine six completions. Now, Jordan Love has great traits
six four, two, twenty, good arm moves. He would be
the number one pick if he came out today. Big
(01:43):
strong kid with a big time arm. Runs well. But
I've seen Ben Johnson and Caleb grow in eight to
nine weeks. We're six years in the Lafleur and Jordan Love,
and you get these weird stretches where it feels like
they're grinding gears. We've got six years of these two.
Don't tell me it's defense. Philadelphia's defense middle of the pack.
(02:04):
Carolina held him to thirteen points last week. Now, Usually
if it's you know, a quarterback issue, even bad quarterbacks
or limited quarterbacks are good on script, like JJ McCarthy.
Not Green Bay. Their offense is broken. They haven't scored
(02:24):
an opening drive touchdown since Week four against Dallas. They
can't even get the scripted stuff right. So this offense
is broken, nothing's working. But you know what I felt
last night watching this game. I felt like I was
watching two quarterbacks who are dealing with the same thing.
(02:45):
Is that the difference between Hurtz and Jordan Love and
the elite guys is noticeable when they don't have a
run game. Kate Justin Herbert is on a three game
winning streak with the worst O line in football on
a third string running back. Mahomes won a Super Bowl
with an average run game and a blow average receiving corps.
(03:06):
I mean, Lamar Jackson wins twelve games a year. Is
he ever had a number one receiver? Good tight ends?
Jalen Hurts and Jordan Love, they're not that Both last
year had an exceptional run game. You know where the
Packers and the Eagles run games are ranked this year,
twentieth twenty.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
First, these guys need more.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
There's about five quarterbacks on the planet. Herbert's one of them. Mahomes, Lamar, Josh,
they don't need a run game. I mean, Josh Allen
got to an AFC Championship with no run game.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Joe Burrow got to a Super Bowl with a battle line.
That's not what these guys are. They are good quarterbacks
and good guys and good leaders. They're not top five
guys in the league, and top five guys don't need
as much. Can't get to super Bowls with completely flawed teams.
(04:01):
That Burrow team that got to the Super Bowl was
wildly flawed. I mean, it's one of the least it's
one of the least impressive roster that's ever gotten to
a super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Go look at the.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Chargers O line right now. That Justin Herbert's getting hit
fifteen times, three game winning street. So I think reality
with Jordan Love and Jalen Hurts is when you give
them a dominant run game. Man, they're tough, they're thrown
on play action, they're using their legs. They're good franchise quarterbacks.
(04:33):
There's about five guys at any one time in my
life in the planet that can reach conference championships, not
have a good run game, bunch of injuries everywhere. Coach
is good, not great, incredibly rare. That's Burrow esque, that's
Lamar right, here's Matt lafleuor after.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I don't sense any quick in there. Obviously, it's a
good football team that we won against, and we just
got to be better offensively is really the message. And
I thought our defense played really well. I thought we
did some good things on teams, and unfortunately, like I
said all along, it's just you got to find a
(05:16):
way to score more points. And it starts, it starts
with myself, and then we got to there's some level
of execution that has to go with that as well.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Listen, Matt Lafleur is a good coach, is he? Andy
Reid probably not, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson probably not good coach.
Jordan loves good quarterback. He's not great, he's good. And
by the way, if you have a good quarterback Daniel
Jones who's now become a good quarterback with some flaws
fumble issues.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They're gonna win their division.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
They're gonna host a playoff game. The problem for Green
Bay is, oh, Detroit's got a better roster in Chicago's legitimate.
Go look at that packer schedule, that loss last night.
It's gonna get truck Key navigating this. They got to
figure out that offense. They are lost right now, all right.
(06:07):
So I don't know if you noticed this last night
with Michah Parsons. He didn't have a sack, he didn't
have a quarterback hit. Let me check the stats. Oh,
it's the second straight game, no sacks, no quarterback hits.
Remember when the Cowboys traded him, the reaction was completely
(06:28):
over the top. You were only allowed one opinion. Oh,
this is a heist for the backers. Oh, they stole
him from Jerry and the Cowboys. But there was this
one singular voice in the American sportsland case escape, just
a tiny humble voice from a tiny humble man me
(06:51):
who said I get it.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I've seen Miked get engulfed by good left tackles. What
are his playoff numbers? There's a way to go at Micah. Yeah,
remember that, I was the one guy that raised his
hand and said I got I got a couple first
round picks.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
And Kenny Clark all right.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Green Bay last season through nine games, six and three,
green Bay this season through nine with Micah five three
and one. Dallas last year through nine games three and six,
Dallas this year through nine, three, five and one.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
This is not the NBA. We're amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Dunk a windmill dunk can super seed production. It will
define you dunks will define you. This is the NFL,
and Micah's rep has always been he is a splash player,
a remarkable athletic splash player.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
He's not good against the run.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right now ed rushers, He's twenty eighth in the league
against the run. Miles Garrett is elite at both TJ.
Watt good against the run and the pass. He's more versatile.
Max Crosby good against the run, great against the pass.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That's not Micah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I mean. The truth is, I was talking this summer
to an NFL GM as a humble man. I was
on a park bench all by myself, just me and
the iPhone, and I was talking to an NFL GM,
and I said.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
What would you do with Micah?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And he's in This GM said, you know the funny
thing about Micah when he got to Dallas. You know,
they tried to make him a linebacker and drop him
into coverage. It didn't last very long because he couldn't
do it. This GM said, he doesn't have great eyes.
He's more the heat seeking missile. See the quarterback, get him,
see the ball.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Get it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
There's nothing wrong with that. DeMarcus Lawrence of the Seahawks
jokes around this weekend. He said, Yeah, our defense in
Seattle for me is sea ball, get ball. It's kind
of an old expression in the NFL. Micah is a
great athlete and the heat seeking missile. He is great
to have in green Bay when they lead games of
the fourth quarter, but when they don't and the offense
dries up, He's not very good against the run, and
(09:07):
so Philadelphia at the end of a game can try
to run the clock down and just run at Micah.
I'm not saying he's not worth the first round pick.
I'm not saying he didn't have value on the right team.
Bill Poonian told me this year's ago, when your offense
is humming, you get a Peyton Manning. Next thing, you
need a left tackle than an edge rusher because you're
going to be leading games with six minutes to go
(09:28):
and they have to pass. The other guys have to pass.
So I like the move for green Bay, but this
idea made no sense for Dallas. No, I get it
Kenny Clark and two first, I get Kenny Clark's good player.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So Jerry Jones, remember after.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
The the Micah trade that was panned by everybody, Jerry
had a little tell on his view on Micah.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Micah is special and we all know he is, and
he can be disrupted, but we have huge amounts of
experience with the anecdotes that we've sag used on us
for the last four years. While he does make great plays,
there is also a way to approach playing against Micah,
(10:17):
as we know because we didn't exactly win the Super
Bowl during those years.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, they tried ament linebacker. No, he wasn't that versatile.
You can run at him. He's great when green Bay's
offense is humming, but the last two weeks, green Bay's
offense isn't humming. So teams that face green Bay don't
have to in obvious downs throw. They don't have to.
(10:44):
They can run, they can throw, they can do play
action what Carolina did, what Philadelphia did, and you can
run at him. So I can think two things. Love Micah.
Great fit for the Packers, but the reaction was so overwrought.
Dallas got nothing from it to first and Kenny Clark.
That's that's pretty good. Now they have Quinn and Williams
(11:05):
still too. First next year. It was pretty good when
Dallas drafts an edge rusher with their first pick in
the next draft, because they don't need a quarterback. You're
gonna have Quinn Williams Kenny Clark in a first round
ed rusher. That's that's elite. That's why the Eagles went
and got Jalen Phillips because they got two interior guys
that are great, and now they've got an elite edge
rusher Phillips. So just saying there was a there was
(11:29):
a small, timid man, a humble man in the forest
of yelling and screaming. J Mack, you remember that day
when we just said slow down to first, Kenny Clark.
It's a very nice package you could because you.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Don't need a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You could move down in the first and get more
picks with it, because the seven teams need a quarterback.
So I think that Micah last night, no sacks, no
quarterback hits second week in a row.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Well, I I you're my dear friend.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
I like you a lot.
Speaker 7 (12:01):
I'll just stand by aside and say I disagree with
this take badly.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
I won't.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
I won't tell you that Micah is still the defensive
Player of the year favorite, that he's third in the
league in pressures, that the Packers are going to be
fined defensively. I got questions about Jordan Love, but I
still think Packers won that won that deal handling.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Herd hierarchy. One hour from now? What do we do?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What do Who's the best team in the league, Who's
the second third? What do we do with the Chiefs
in Denver?
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Well?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Denver's better? Well, their record is, but look who the
favorite in the game is. Do you put Buffalo in?
Do you put Green Bay in? Talk about all that
stuff coming up.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
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Speaker 1 (13:15):
YouTube, subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and coming away
heard hierarchy.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Tim now go the top.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Ten NFL teams according to College Number.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Ten Indianapolis has the number one scoring offense, Number one
in yards per play, number one in total offense. They've
scored thirty plus points in five or six games. Do
they have a ceiling with Daniel Jones? Yep, he's becoming
Daniel Jones again. A lot of giveaways. But here's a
remarkable number on Jonathan Taylor. He has over eight hundred
(13:51):
yards after contact after he's been hit. So this offense
is the real deal. It's got a ceiling. But I
put Indie they gotta be in here. I put them
at ten, number nine. Justin Herbert's unbelievable. The Chargers have
the worst pass blocking line I think I've ever seen,
and yet their second best in the NFL on third down.
(14:13):
How they're a number three running back. How the fact
that they're six and one against the AFC, three and
zero against their division. They don't really have a true
number one on their third best running back. And the
pass blocking line is egregiously bad. Justin Herbert's been hit
(14:36):
pressured one hundred and thirteen times, second place twenty four
fewer times. Herbert and Harbaugh deserve to be in here.
Nine number eight Lions.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Listen, they win.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
They haven't lost back to back game since like twenty
twenty two, longest streak in the league. So and say
what you want. Jared Goff se any plus completion percentage
in eight straight road games. That extends an NFL record.
We always thought of him as good inside bad on
the road. He looked pretty good to me. They've got
(15:10):
multiple guys with eight plus touchdowns armor on Saint Brown,
Jamiir Gibbs. You know, do we trust Dan Campbell situationally
in big spots. I don't know if I do. He
took over play calling duties this weekend. Not great Detroit
at eight, number seven Ravens don't care about their record.
These aren't standings. Basically, they average thirty points a game
(15:34):
and six point one yards of play when Lamar Jackson plays, Sorry,
you're gonna make the list. Also, if they play the NFC,
take them. They're twenty five and three. I like the
roster when healthy, I like the quarterback, I like the coach.
Don't care much about the record. As long as they
stay healthy, they'll be a playoff team. They're gonna win
this Division. I think after you watch Pittsburgh against the Chargers,
(15:57):
that's fairly obvious.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Number six.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
You can't keep winning this way, and I don't think
they're going to beat Kansas City this weekend. They're one
of two teams, the Saints or the other, to trail
in every game. It's not sustainable. But they've won seven
games in a row because their coach is great, their
defense is stacked.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Their O line's excellent.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Fewest sacks allowed yet most sacks delivered.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
That's very rare in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I got Denver at six, number five, But Kansas City's
gonna beat them this weekend. They're the current favorite to
beat them this weekend, and they've outgained seven to the
last eight opponents.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Listen. I don't love their run game, but I mean
I went back and looked this morning.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
How many great run games as Patrick Mahomes had coach
coordinator weapons.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I like them.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
You know, Buffalo tends to circle the wagons and play
their best game every year in the regular season against
Kansas City. Congratulations, how's that working out for you? I
got Kansas City at five, number four, the Enigmatic Eagles
at four. Listen, they're four and one against teams with
winning records. They sort of played to their competition. So
they beat the Rams and the Chiefs and the Bucks
(17:06):
and the Packers. They beat good teams and they beat
them on the road. They do not give the ball up.
I said this about Caleb Williams. He doesn't throw picks.
The Eagles don't turn the ball over, and they're very
good in the red zone. So again, playoff football, November
football is situational football.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
It's winning on the road, and they do.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And by the way, Jalen Phillips, you notice last night
they pressured Jordan Love on forty percent of his dropbacks.
That is a heist to get Jalen Phillips at the
trade deadline for a third down pick, and if he leaves,
you get a third round pick back. That is great GMing.
Number three the Patriots, I mean, they go to Buffalo,
they win, They play tampaffa bye, they win. Drake May
(17:49):
eight and nine games, one hundred plus passer rating, I'm sorry,
and he's doing it without a number one wide receiver,
a good not great offensive line. They're five and zero
on the road. That counts for something on this list.
And they've got a lockdown corner and almost nobody in
the league does.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
They're seven to zero one.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Christian Gonzales out of Oregon plays, so I mean, you're
just watching a great coach, a great emerging quarterback. Kyle
Williams the wide receiver, and Traveon Henderson play them please
this weekend.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
They did, and they were exceptional.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Number two the Seahawks best point differential in the NFC.
Sam Darnold is the highest quoted quarterback in the league.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I mean, he's just fantastic.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Tied for the fewest sacks all out on offense, so
they've got there can be a little reckless. Donald has
the weirdest turnovers. Rickocheng balls up a tight end helmet.
But turn the sound down and look at this def
It reminds me of Kansas City's defense about three years
ago when it was really young. Turn the sound down.
(18:55):
There is no faster defense in this league. Everybody runs,
the safeties, the linebackers, the edge rushers. Everybody runs on
this team. Depth everywhere, no glaring hole. Seattle at two
number one, but the Rams are a more efficient version
of Seattle. You don't get the penalies, you don't get
the turnovers. Once again, pff Radson is the number one team,
(19:18):
the number one offense, the number three defense. Now Seattle's
got a quarterback that can move around. Kansas City does,
Buffalo does, Baltimore does. I do think as a purely
pocket quarterback, you can get into those weird situations if
you're not running the ball, their offense.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Can get stuck.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
But right now, coaching quarterbacking, run game, pass, rush, no penalies,
they don't turn it over.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
They are the cleanest team in the league.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
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Speaker 8 (19:52):
Thanks Major Daniel Copeland Task Force thunder Camp Harriff John Kaway,
one of which. A Happy Veteran's Day to all my
friends and family back home, especially fellow veterans serving in
the Kansas.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Army Ashley Garden.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Thanks to those who serve.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Fox Sports salutes the men and women of great honor diligence.
Thank you for all you do. Greg Olsen, boy, he's
getting good assignments. Seahawks Rams this week, maybe the game
of the year.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Bears Giants last week.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So we got a lot to address. Let's start. I
want to do Bears Giants. I want to get that
out of the way. So you have been an advocate
for stop kicking field goals.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
This is not the future.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And it's interesting in the Bears Giants game, they had
an opportunity to go for it. The New York Giants
did and Brian dabol elects, now we're going to go
for three. And we've been talking about this, the blue
Tent stuff with Jackson Dart. That decision just gut feeling
when they got rid of him, because, by the way,
they've had ten point leads on several teams, but now
(21:02):
without Scataboo, they can't kill the clock. They're not really
built now to get a lead and then just ball
control it. They're not unless Jackson Dart runs, and that's
problematic because you get dinged up. Why do you think
in the end they moved off Dable.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
Yeah, because I think Dabel is a really good football coach.
I think Dabel is a really good quarterback developer. I mean,
you look what he did with Josh Allen, you look
what he did with you know what he's doing with
Jackson Dart. He obviously was the one who really wanted
Dirt in the first place. I think It really just
came down to the expert, you know, the powers to
(21:38):
be just determined. There's obviously a breakdown in our inability
to finish these games. I mean, to lose the four
games that they did with double digit leads. Of course,
Denver being the biggest kind of head scratcher. I don't
think this had anything to do with they don't think
Dabel is a good offensive play caller, that he's not
a good quarterback developer, that he's not getting the best
out of Jackson Dart and you know, a supporting cast
(22:01):
that with scattaboo out and elite neighbors, you know, with
the group around him is not particular particularly dynamic and explosive.
They're still in the ability to get leads in the game.
I think they're looking at it as our decision making,
our game management, our processes towards the end are just
obviously not where they need to be, and I think
if they were, they'd have maybe four more wins if
(22:23):
they're being greedy, but at least two or three. And
so I think it's more about overall management of games,
decision making, more of that than it is the pure
x's and o's the development of the quarterback, So I
think that was probably the final straw. And of course
the field goal was a big storyline. We covered it
(22:45):
at length. That's a larger story going on all across
the league. It kind of played itself out, as you know,
in a moment there in the fourth quarter of the
Giants game, kicking from goal to go. I would never
kick a field goal goal to go unless it was
to literally win the game. But that's a longer conversation
with the new kickoff rules and field position and strategy,
but it's hard to say it came down to one decision.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
I think that was a factor in it. I really just.
Speaker 9 (23:09):
Think it was the totality of the entire situation over
the last couple of years. They felt that there was
more wins that ended up being the case.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
How do you explain Caleb Williams JJ McCarthy's good on script,
bad off it. Caleb actually has been great late over
the last several weeks.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
How do you explain that? What did your eyes see?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Why the struggles and then all of a sudden in
the fourth quarter, he does a bo Nicks, he does
a Peyton Manning. He's like, okay, I'm just going to
control the game every snap.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
He was incredible. That is the bet.
Speaker 9 (23:42):
Now, granted I haven't watched every snap of every moment
since he's come into the league.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
Call it the last year and a half. That was
by far.
Speaker 9 (23:49):
The best Caleb Williams performance in his young career. And
you know, you can look at last year and you
know there was a lot of chaos going on and
your coach is getting fired and offense coordinator changes. But
if we just say, okay, this year is his first
year of stability, first year with Ben Johnson, this is
the Caleb we're going to evaluate.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
It's not even close.
Speaker 9 (24:09):
I mean his ability, they were historically bad last year,
colin taking sacks, and part of that is his willingness
to play off script and his ability to extend plays,
and he brings a lot of the pressure on himself.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
But this year, I mean, the Giants had him dead
to rights ten times. They could not get him on
the ground.
Speaker 9 (24:27):
And then the piece that came together for him, especially
in the fourth quarters, not only could they not get
him on the ground, his ability to drive the ball
accurately in scramble drilled downfield. I mean, if his receivers
they had six drops by far the most of the
year for them.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
I think they only had seven coming into the game.
Drops were an issue.
Speaker 9 (24:46):
It was cold, it was windy, but it had no
impact on his ability to drive the ball beyond time. Now,
do you want to play off script football? Is that
sustainable over long periods of time? No, we have seen
that time time again. There has to be an element
of There has to be an element of rhythm, there
has to be an element of timing. And I think
(25:07):
that's still the balance that Ben Johnson's trying to bring
out of Caleb. I think they'ugh when things break down
in today's NFL, which is going to be often past
protection is very difficult.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
The rushers are very good. Scheme is good.
Speaker 9 (25:19):
You have to have a quarterback that can make second,
second level plays, meaning it's not the initial read, it's
not the initial timing. I got a playoff script. He
can do that as well as anyone. As they continue
to get him into more of the on time rhythm
component of Ben Johnson's drop that game. If that continues
to develop, That's what Chicago thought they were drafting last year.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So I felt like watching Green Bay and Philadelphia, I
was watching kind of the same thing is that both
these quarterbacks when they had elite rushing games last year,
were really excellent. But they're not Mahomes or Lamar or Allen.
Is that if you take the running game away from
both good but you see the holes. So I could
(26:03):
blame La Floor, I could blame the injuries. But Green
Bay to me, their inability to run the ball puts
more pressure, more throws on Jordan and I think he's
a really good quarterback. But in my life, Greg, there's
been about five quarterbacks that Joe Burrow can get to
the super Bowl with an atrocious old line that can
(26:24):
win games like Justin Herbert, without a run game or
a tackles that's very unique. There's five or six guys
in the planet. And I think Hurts and Love are good,
but the run games for both have disappeared, and that
means more on them. That's my view, and that that's
maybe not what they are. I mean, I can't explain
Green Bay's offense outside of that.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
What do you see?
Speaker 9 (26:48):
Yeah, I had the green Bay game, so I saw
him two weeks ago in the home loss in Lambeau
to the Panthers, which yep, you know they only scored
thirteen points, so they've scored twenty points in the last
two games. With going into the Panther game watching Jordan
Love this year, just the eye test and then diving
into some of the more metric driven analysis of just
evaluating quarterbacks, you know, looking past pass protection, looking past
(27:12):
opened routes, by scheme, like, there's a lot of ways
to really like determine how much of this is quarterback
driven and how much of this is scheme and environment
driven by all metrics, film and advanced study. Going into
that Panthers game, I thought I thought Jordan Love was
a top five quarterback in the league this season through
at the time it was seven or eight games, I
thought he was playing as well as anybody across the league.
(27:34):
And then what we've seen in the last two weeks
is you mentioned the run game, and I think there's
two there's two components to that conversation, Right, there's a
lot to be discussed about run game value and importance.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
Run game matters. Let's right, it does matter if you.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
Are Jonathan Taylor and Saquon Barkley last year, where they're
ripping off these large, chunk, explosive plays and they're running
for fifty yard touchdowns and forty yard touchdowns. You think
back to Saquon in the playoffs last year through their
Super Bowl with victory, like, yes, the run game was
so valuable because those forty to fifty yard touchdowns he's
running for are better than any pass play.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
But that is so hard to rely on.
Speaker 9 (28:15):
Very few teams have a back in a system that
can generate those plays. So all of a sudden you
started saying, Okay, what is the value of the run game?
We saw both teams last night really commit to staying
true to the run because the score allowed them. But
then you look up at the scoreboard and it's three
to nothing at the end of the first half. So
at the end of the day, in the regular season,
(28:37):
scoring points is directly tied to passing game and explosive
run game. If you don't do those two things, you
are not going to score. You might have good time
of possession, you might run for a lot of total
gross yards, you're not going to score points in the
regular season, which is an offensive driven time of year.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
Now, postseason run games more valuable.
Speaker 9 (28:59):
Defense is more valuable because we've gotten rid of all
the bad teams, all the bad teams are home sitting
on the couch. It's now just good versus good. It's
not just what offenses can throw and score a lot
of points. There's more value to it. So I think
they've got to get back to putting the ball in
Jordan Love's hand on first and second down, not being
in second and eight, because every first down is a run.
Continue to push the ball downfield, continue to give his
(29:20):
guys chances like that run game will get better the
more aggressive they are with their early down passing game.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
I think everyone.
Speaker 9 (29:28):
Always wants to look at it the other way, like
We're going to run them into run defenses and then
I'm gonna throw the ball over their head, when in reality,
the more I fear your passing game, the more favorable
situations both personnel. You're gonna play a lot of nickel
against me, a lot of little bodies on the field,
I'll run at that and light boxes.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
All of a sudden, Now my passing game leads.
Speaker 9 (29:50):
To my run game getting better, and it's typically not
the other way around.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
Most of the time.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Seahawks rams that is a that's an assignment that is
going to be wild. Seattle's been a bit more reckless
than the Rams. Rams are young on defense, not on offense.
The Seahawks are young everywhere. Go to your youngest team,
Green Bay's young and they're inconsistent. Do you worry about
(30:19):
in the end with Seattle is you know? You got Stafford,
and you got han steinright tackle, and you got Davonte.
There's a lot of beards. There's a lot of old
guys in this league. Seattle is kids in JSN, and
Darnold's still relatively young, and their best offensive lineman's a
rookie and their corners are young. How do you view
(30:40):
the game in Seattle's youth? Because I think Seattle is
stunning a lot of people. We all knew the Rams
will be fine. I don't think most people thought the
Seahawks could arguably the best be the best team in
the league.
Speaker 6 (30:52):
Yeah, first off, we're beyond excited.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
We've been thinking about this game since they gave us
the matchup a week or two ago. I think it's
the best matchup of the year. Now, how does the
game play out and how does it live up? Nobody knows,
but I would make the argument these are two of
the top three teams at worst. I could probably make
a really strong argument it's one and two in any
particular order.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
I think they're so good on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 9 (31:17):
I think your point about Seattle's youth is real, But
on some of the best teams that I've been on,
there is kind of like a ignorance's bliss to youth
where they're young, they're energetic, they're athletic, they're living, and
they're loving every moment of this. We're like, they almost
don't even realize how hard what they're doing is. They
don't realize how hard it is to win at this level.
(31:39):
Like all they know is success, All they know is
winning because they haven't been in the league long enough
to have those scars. There's a power to that, right,
there's a beauty to that where we don't have to
undo any of these bad habits, we don't need to
undo any of these bad moments because you played on
another bad team, you know, five years ago. So I
think they are young. I think they're extremely talented. They've
(32:01):
got a lot of star young players at multiple positions
on both sides of the field. And I get McDonald. McDonald,
I give them a lot of credit. After one year
of being a head coach. He took a look at
his offense last year and said, you know what, this
is not where we want to be and gino it
did not play bad by any stretch of the imagination.
(32:21):
And as an organization with which Snider and then they said,
you know what, we need to change of pace offensively,
they go out and they get Kubiak from New Orleans
who took the league by storm as a play caller
early the year, kind of fizzled when he lost Derek Carr.
They saw through that, they said, his vision of offense
is what we want to be here. We want to
be under center, we want to be play action, we
want to be explosive passing game. They get in a
(32:43):
lot of those big bodies. They put you in base
defense to throw the ball against you. It's a really
popular strategy that's becoming more kind of popular throughout the league.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
I love.
Speaker 9 (32:54):
And then defensively, you know, with a defensive head coach,
they're always going to put their identity there.
Speaker 6 (32:59):
They're going to play fast.
Speaker 9 (33:00):
Witherspoon's a stud like at DeMarcus Lawrence, and what a
great signing that we've seen him kill people for years
in Dallas like it is a really fun team to watch.
They're good on both sides of the ball and everything
I just said, if you just swapped out the Rams,
maybe outside of some of the youth, it's the exact
same story. So yeah, it's it's in my mind, it's
(33:22):
the best matchup of the year with two of the
best three or four teams, if we're being conservative, in
the entire league.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Hey, when you were in Chicago or Carolina, I don't
have the exact years, but Stafford was in the league.
He was losing a lot of games in Detroit. So
when you you had Cam and again Detroit wasn't talked about.
But as a tight end and as a guy who
really studies and thinks the game, did you know Stafford
was this good?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Like what they was losing? But were you down?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I don't know. If you were Chicago Carolina could have
been both and you had Aaron Rodgers dominating the division,
and you had Brady and you had Manning and all
these guys. And there was that guy up in Detroit
and he was young and he was out of Georgia.
Did you ever think he'd be this?
Speaker 6 (34:07):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 9 (34:07):
You know what's so funny about the quarterback position, and
we still do it today. We do it all the
time on both ends of the spectrum. We assume quarterbacks
on bad teams are bad, and we assume that good
that quarterbacks on good teams are good. So we probably
give quarterbacks too much of the credit at times, and
we probably give them too much of the blame at
(34:29):
times when oftentimes, outside of the few extremes, it's probably
a combination of team environment, coaching, and player all thrown
into the pot and mixed up. So, I mean, you
look back at some of the years he had with
Calvin Johnson, and yes, they lost a lot of games,
and it was not you know, it was not the
Detroit Lions organization that we know now under Dan Campbell.
(34:50):
It was he was always so talented, the armed what
we'd see he put up big numbers. Now, granted a
lot of that was in playing from behind and chasing points.
Speaker 6 (34:59):
But I think anybody.
Speaker 9 (35:00):
Who watched football probably could could do a good job
separating the outcome wins and losses and watch Stafford play
and say, I know chaos is ensuing around him. I
know this is dysfunction. I know there's coaching turnover and
losses are out of high like, but this dude can
flat out play and then obviously we know what's happened.
He gets put with artably the best coach in the league.
(35:23):
You know, mcveigh's probably tough. You know, he's one or
two I don't know who you'd pick over him, and
he gets put into that environment. They have immediate success,
of course, winning the Super Bowl, but then they experienced
some lows.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
He went back. Now where can the Rams figured out
what's his future? Is he going to go? Is they
going to trade him to somewhere else? Is they going
to retire?
Speaker 9 (35:43):
Like they went through some down years following that Super Bowl,
where I'm sure a lot of that experience from Stafford
paid dividends. You know, he had been in that chaos before.
And now obviously they're riding it up. They've drafted incredibly well.
They've got really talented on the defensive the ball through
the draft, and Stafford at you know, thirty eight years
(36:03):
old or whatever he is. I mean, he's probably the
MVP of the league. It's him and Drake May if
the season ended today, and pretty remarkable journey for a
guy whose talent leadership everybody do you know that has
played with Stafford, whether they won one game or they
won the Super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
Every teammate and coach loves him.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah they do.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
And he's a pro. He puts in the time in
the film room. I've seen specials on him. He's a
you know, he's a total pros pro. He's a grinder.
Greg Olsen, boy, I don't get jealous much. Seahawks rams
that that is a unbelievable matchup of just two stacked rosters,
and go crush it. Thanks man, appreciate you.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
Good seeing you.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Here we Go.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
It is a Tuesday all star lineup. Nick Wright, Greg
Olsen stop by one hour from now.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
The Herd Hierarchy. It is Veterans Day.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Thank you to the men and women who so nobly
serve our country. Thank you very much. Jmech we have
a show today. There's some questions on what we all
watched last night. It was it was a rough wat
you did. I made sure I got a nap. I
wanted to stay up late. Halfway through the game, I'm like, well,
(01:00):
why did I stay over for this? It's unwatchable, but
it does create a lot of interesting scenarios that packers
schedule pretty dicey going forward. Now that's Chicago's legit, So
let's start with this is Green Bay's problem A Jordan
Love issue, a Matt Lafleur issue, injuries to wide receivers
(01:22):
and tight end issue. Well whatever, They've regressed in almost
every offensive category three straight weeks. I don't feel like
Matt Lafleur has a ton of trust for Jordan Loves.
I mean, how many yards passing in the first half
thirty nine six completions. Now, Jordan Love has great traits
six four, two, twenty, good arm moves. He would be
the number one pick if he came out today. Big
(01:43):
strong kid with a big time arm. Runs well. But
I've seen Ben Johnson and Caleb grow in eight to
nine weeks. We're six years in the Lafleur and Jordan Love,
and you get these weird stretches where it feels like
they're grinding gears. We've got six years of these two.
Don't tell me it's defense. Philadelphia's defense middle of the pack.
(02:04):
Carolina held him to thirteen points last week. Now, Usually
if it's you know, a quarterback issue, even bad quarterbacks
or limited quarterbacks are good on script, like JJ McCarthy.
Not Green Bay. Their offense is broken. They haven't scored
(02:24):
an opening drive touchdown since Week four against Dallas. They
can't even get the scripted stuff right. So this offense
is broken, nothing's working. But you know what I felt
last night watching this game. I felt like I was
watching two quarterbacks who are dealing with the same thing.
(02:45):
Is that the difference between Hurtz and Jordan Love and
the elite guys is noticeable when they don't have a
run game. Kate Justin Herbert is on a three game
winning streak with the worst O line in football on
a third string running back. Mahomes won a Super Bowl
with an average run game and a blow average receiving corps.
(03:06):
I mean, Lamar Jackson wins twelve games a year. Is
he ever had a number one receiver? Good tight ends?
Jalen Hurts and Jordan Love, they're not that Both last
year had an exceptional run game. You know where the
Packers and the Eagles run games are ranked this year,
twentieth twenty.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
First, these guys need more.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
There's about five quarterbacks on the planet. Herbert's one of them. Mahomes, Lamar, Josh,
they don't need a run game. I mean, Josh Allen
got to an AFC Championship with no run game.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Joe Burrow got to a Super Bowl with a battle line.
That's not what these guys are. They are good quarterbacks
and good guys and good leaders. They're not top five
guys in the league, and top five guys don't need
as much. Can't get to super Bowls with completely flawed teams.
(04:01):
That Burrow team that got to the Super Bowl was
wildly flawed. I mean, it's one of the least it's
one of the least impressive roster that's ever gotten to
a super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Go look at the.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Chargers O line right now. That Justin Herbert's getting hit
fifteen times, three game winning street. So I think reality
with Jordan Love and Jalen Hurts is when you give
them a dominant run game. Man, they're tough, they're thrown
on play action, they're using their legs. They're good franchise quarterbacks.
(04:33):
There's about five guys at any one time in my
life in the planet that can reach conference championships, not
have a good run game, bunch of injuries everywhere. Coach
is good, not great, incredibly rare. That's Burrow esque, that's
Lamar right, here's Matt lafleuor after.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I don't sense any quick in there. Obviously, it's a
good football team that we won against, and we just
got to be better offensively is really the message. And
I thought our defense played really well. I thought we
did some good things on teams, and unfortunately, like I
said all along, it's just you got to find a
(05:16):
way to score more points. And it starts, it starts
with myself, and then we got to there's some level
of execution that has to go with that as well.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Listen, Matt Lafleur is a good coach, is he? Andy
Reid probably not, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson probably not good coach.
Jordan loves good quarterback. He's not great, he's good. And
by the way, if you have a good quarterback Daniel
Jones who's now become a good quarterback with some flaws
fumble issues.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They're gonna win their division.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
They're gonna host a playoff game. The problem for Green
Bay is, oh, Detroit's got a better roster in Chicago's legitimate.
Go look at that packer schedule, that loss last night.
It's gonna get truck Key navigating this. They got to
figure out that offense. They are lost right now, all right.
(06:07):
So I don't know if you noticed this last night
with Michah Parsons. He didn't have a sack, he didn't
have a quarterback hit. Let me check the stats. Oh,
it's the second straight game, no sacks, no quarterback hits.
Remember when the Cowboys traded him, the reaction was completely
(06:28):
over the top. You were only allowed one opinion. Oh,
this is a heist for the backers. Oh, they stole
him from Jerry and the Cowboys. But there was this
one singular voice in the American sportsland case escape, just
a tiny humble voice from a tiny humble man me
(06:51):
who said I get it.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I've seen Miked get engulfed by good left tackles. What
are his playoff numbers? There's a way to go at Micah. Yeah,
remember that, I was the one guy that raised his
hand and said I got I got a couple first
round picks.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
And Kenny Clark all right.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Green Bay last season through nine games, six and three,
green Bay this season through nine with Micah five three
and one. Dallas last year through nine games three and six,
Dallas this year through nine, three, five and one.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
This is not the NBA. We're amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Dunk a windmill dunk can super seed production. It will
define you dunks will define you. This is the NFL,
and Micah's rep has always been he is a splash player,
a remarkable athletic splash player.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
He's not good against the run.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right now ed rushers, He's twenty eighth in the league
against the run. Miles Garrett is elite at both TJ.
Watt good against the run and the pass. He's more versatile.
Max Crosby good against the run, great against the pass.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That's not Micah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I mean. The truth is, I was talking this summer
to an NFL GM as a humble man. I was
on a park bench all by myself, just me and
the iPhone, and I was talking to an NFL GM,
and I said.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
What would you do with Micah?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And he's in This GM said, you know the funny
thing about Micah when he got to Dallas. You know,
they tried to make him a linebacker and drop him
into coverage. It didn't last very long because he couldn't
do it. This GM said, he doesn't have great eyes.
He's more the heat seeking missile. See the quarterback, get him,
see the ball.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Get it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
There's nothing wrong with that. DeMarcus Lawrence of the Seahawks
jokes around this weekend. He said, Yeah, our defense in
Seattle for me is sea ball, get ball. It's kind
of an old expression in the NFL. Micah is a
great athlete and the heat seeking missile. He is great
to have in green Bay when they lead games of
the fourth quarter, but when they don't and the offense
dries up, He's not very good against the run, and
(09:07):
so Philadelphia at the end of a game can try
to run the clock down and just run at Micah.
I'm not saying he's not worth the first round pick.
I'm not saying he didn't have value on the right team.
Bill Poonian told me this year's ago, when your offense
is humming, you get a Peyton Manning. Next thing, you
need a left tackle than an edge rusher because you're
going to be leading games with six minutes to go
(09:28):
and they have to pass. The other guys have to pass.
So I like the move for green Bay, but this
idea made no sense for Dallas. No, I get it
Kenny Clark and two first, I get Kenny Clark's good player.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So Jerry Jones, remember after.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
The the Micah trade that was panned by everybody, Jerry
had a little tell on his view on Micah.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Micah is special and we all know he is, and
he can be disrupted, but we have huge amounts of
experience with the anecdotes that we've sag used on us
for the last four years. While he does make great plays,
there is also a way to approach playing against Micah,
(10:17):
as we know because we didn't exactly win the Super
Bowl during those years.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, they tried ament linebacker. No, he wasn't that versatile.
You can run at him. He's great when green Bay's
offense is humming, but the last two weeks, green Bay's
offense isn't humming. So teams that face green Bay don't
have to in obvious downs throw. They don't have to.
(10:44):
They can run, they can throw, they can do play
action what Carolina did, what Philadelphia did, and you can
run at him. So I can think two things. Love Micah.
Great fit for the Packers, but the reaction was so overwrought.
Dallas got nothing from it to first and Kenny Clark.
That's that's pretty good. Now they have Quinn and Williams
(11:05):
still too. First next year. It was pretty good when
Dallas drafts an edge rusher with their first pick in
the next draft, because they don't need a quarterback. You're
gonna have Quinn Williams Kenny Clark in a first round
ed rusher. That's that's elite. That's why the Eagles went
and got Jalen Phillips because they got two interior guys
that are great, and now they've got an elite edge
rusher Phillips. So just saying there was a there was
(11:29):
a small, timid man, a humble man in the forest
of yelling and screaming. J Mack, you remember that day
when we just said slow down to first, Kenny Clark.
It's a very nice package you could because you.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Don't need a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You could move down in the first and get more
picks with it, because the seven teams need a quarterback.
So I think that Micah last night, no sacks, no
quarterback hits second week in a row.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Well, I I you're my dear friend.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
I like you a lot.
Speaker 7 (12:01):
I'll just stand by aside and say I disagree with
this take badly.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
I won't.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
I won't tell you that Micah is still the defensive
Player of the year favorite, that he's third in the
league in pressures, that the Packers are going to be
fined defensively. I got questions about Jordan Love, but I
still think Packers won that won that deal handling.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Herd hierarchy. One hour from now? What do we do?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What do Who's the best team in the league, Who's
the second third? What do we do with the Chiefs
in Denver?
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Well?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Denver's better? Well, their record is, but look who the
favorite in the game is. Do you put Buffalo in?
Do you put Green Bay in? Talk about all that
stuff coming up.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
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Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Fox Sports Radio
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(13:03):
Tuo Pro's and a Cup of Joe, Dan Patrick, Colin Coward,
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Mike Harmon, and The Ben Maller Show. Fox Sports Radio on.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
YouTube, subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and coming away
heard hierarchy.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Tim now go the top.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Ten NFL teams according to College Number.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Ten Indianapolis has the number one scoring offense, Number one
in yards per play, number one in total offense. They've
scored thirty plus points in five or six games. Do
they have a ceiling with Daniel Jones? Yep, he's becoming
Daniel Jones again. A lot of giveaways. But here's a
remarkable number on Jonathan Taylor. He has over eight hundred
(13:51):
yards after contact after he's been hit. So this offense
is the real deal. It's got a ceiling. But I
put Indie they gotta be in here. I put them
at ten, number nine. Justin Herbert's unbelievable. The Chargers have
the worst pass blocking line I think I've ever seen,
and yet their second best in the NFL on third down.
(14:13):
How they're a number three running back. How the fact
that they're six and one against the AFC, three and
zero against their division. They don't really have a true
number one on their third best running back. And the
pass blocking line is egregiously bad. Justin Herbert's been hit
(14:36):
pressured one hundred and thirteen times, second place twenty four
fewer times. Herbert and Harbaugh deserve to be in here.
Nine number eight Lions.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Listen, they win.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
They haven't lost back to back game since like twenty
twenty two, longest streak in the league. So and say
what you want. Jared Goff se any plus completion percentage
in eight straight road games. That extends an NFL record.
We always thought of him as good inside bad on
the road. He looked pretty good to me. They've got
(15:10):
multiple guys with eight plus touchdowns armor on Saint Brown,
Jamiir Gibbs. You know, do we trust Dan Campbell situationally
in big spots. I don't know if I do. He
took over play calling duties this weekend. Not great Detroit
at eight, number seven Ravens don't care about their record.
These aren't standings. Basically, they average thirty points a game
(15:34):
and six point one yards of play when Lamar Jackson plays, Sorry,
you're gonna make the list. Also, if they play the NFC,
take them. They're twenty five and three. I like the
roster when healthy, I like the quarterback, I like the coach.
Don't care much about the record. As long as they
stay healthy, they'll be a playoff team. They're gonna win
this Division. I think after you watch Pittsburgh against the Chargers,
(15:57):
that's fairly obvious.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Number six.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
You can't keep winning this way, and I don't think
they're going to beat Kansas City this weekend. They're one
of two teams, the Saints or the other, to trail
in every game. It's not sustainable. But they've won seven
games in a row because their coach is great, their
defense is stacked.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Their O line's excellent.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Fewest sacks allowed yet most sacks delivered.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
That's very rare in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I got Denver at six, number five, But Kansas City's
gonna beat them this weekend. They're the current favorite to
beat them this weekend, and they've outgained seven to the
last eight opponents.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Listen. I don't love their run game, but I mean
I went back and looked this morning.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
How many great run games as Patrick Mahomes had coach
coordinator weapons.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I like them.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
You know, Buffalo tends to circle the wagons and play
their best game every year in the regular season against
Kansas City. Congratulations, how's that working out for you? I
got Kansas City at five, number four, the Enigmatic Eagles
at four. Listen, they're four and one against teams with
winning records. They sort of played to their competition. So
they beat the Rams and the Chiefs and the Bucks
(17:06):
and the Packers. They beat good teams and they beat
them on the road. They do not give the ball up.
I said this about Caleb Williams. He doesn't throw picks.
The Eagles don't turn the ball over, and they're very
good in the red zone. So again, playoff football, November
football is situational football.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
It's winning on the road, and they do.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And by the way, Jalen Phillips, you notice last night
they pressured Jordan Love on forty percent of his dropbacks.
That is a heist to get Jalen Phillips at the
trade deadline for a third down pick, and if he leaves,
you get a third round pick back. That is great GMing.
Number three the Patriots, I mean, they go to Buffalo,
they win, They play tampaffa bye, they win. Drake May
(17:49):
eight and nine games, one hundred plus passer rating, I'm sorry,
and he's doing it without a number one wide receiver,
a good not great offensive line. They're five and zero
on the road. That counts for something on this list.
And they've got a lockdown corner and almost nobody in
the league does.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
They're seven to zero one.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Christian Gonzales out of Oregon plays, so I mean, you're
just watching a great coach, a great emerging quarterback. Kyle
Williams the wide receiver, and Traveon Henderson play them please
this weekend.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
They did, and they were exceptional.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Number two the Seahawks best point differential in the NFC.
Sam Darnold is the highest quoted quarterback in the league.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I mean, he's just fantastic.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Tied for the fewest sacks all out on offense, so
they've got there can be a little reckless. Donald has
the weirdest turnovers. Rickocheng balls up a tight end helmet.
But turn the sound down and look at this def
It reminds me of Kansas City's defense about three years
ago when it was really young. Turn the sound down.
(18:55):
There is no faster defense in this league. Everybody runs,
the safeties, the linebackers, the edge rushers. Everybody runs on
this team. Depth everywhere, no glaring hole. Seattle at two
number one, but the Rams are a more efficient version
of Seattle. You don't get the penalies, you don't get
the turnovers. Once again, pff Radson is the number one team,
(19:18):
the number one offense, the number three defense. Now Seattle's
got a quarterback that can move around. Kansas City does,
Buffalo does, Baltimore does. I do think as a purely
pocket quarterback, you can get into those weird situations if
you're not running the ball, their offense.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Can get stuck.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
But right now, coaching quarterbacking, run game, pass, rush, no penalies,
they don't turn it over.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
They are the cleanest team in the league.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a Empacific.
Speaker 8 (19:52):
Thanks Major Daniel Copeland Task Force thunder Camp Harriff John Kaway,
one of which. A Happy Veteran's Day to all my
friends and family back home, especially fellow veterans serving in
the Kansas.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Army Ashley Garden.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Thanks to those who serve.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Fox Sports salutes the men and women of great honor diligence.
Thank you for all you do. Greg Olsen, boy, he's
getting good assignments. Seahawks Rams this week, maybe the game
of the year.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Bears Giants last week.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So we got a lot to address. Let's start. I
want to do Bears Giants. I want to get that
out of the way. So you have been an advocate
for stop kicking field goals.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
This is not the future.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And it's interesting in the Bears Giants game, they had
an opportunity to go for it. The New York Giants
did and Brian dabol elects, now we're going to go
for three. And we've been talking about this, the blue
Tent stuff with Jackson Dart. That decision just gut feeling
when they got rid of him, because, by the way,
they've had ten point leads on several teams, but now
(21:02):
without Scataboo, they can't kill the clock. They're not really
built now to get a lead and then just ball
control it. They're not unless Jackson Dart runs, and that's
problematic because you get dinged up. Why do you think
in the end they moved off Dable.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
Yeah, because I think Dabel is a really good football coach.
I think Dabel is a really good quarterback developer. I mean,
you look what he did with Josh Allen, you look
what he did with you know what he's doing with
Jackson Dart. He obviously was the one who really wanted
Dirt in the first place. I think It really just
came down to the expert, you know, the powers to
(21:38):
be just determined. There's obviously a breakdown in our inability
to finish these games. I mean, to lose the four
games that they did with double digit leads. Of course,
Denver being the biggest kind of head scratcher. I don't
think this had anything to do with they don't think
Dabel is a good offensive play caller, that he's not
a good quarterback developer, that he's not getting the best
out of Jackson Dart and you know, a supporting cast
(22:01):
that with scattaboo out and elite neighbors, you know, with
the group around him is not particular particularly dynamic and explosive.
They're still in the ability to get leads in the game.
I think they're looking at it as our decision making,
our game management, our processes towards the end are just
obviously not where they need to be, and I think
if they were, they'd have maybe four more wins if
(22:23):
they're being greedy, but at least two or three. And
so I think it's more about overall management of games,
decision making, more of that than it is the pure
x's and o's the development of the quarterback, So I
think that was probably the final straw. And of course
the field goal was a big storyline. We covered it
(22:45):
at length. That's a larger story going on all across
the league. It kind of played itself out, as you know,
in a moment there in the fourth quarter of the
Giants game, kicking from goal to go. I would never
kick a field goal goal to go unless it was
to literally win the game. But that's a longer conversation
with the new kickoff rules and field position and strategy,
but it's hard to say it came down to one decision.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
I think that was a factor in it. I really just.
Speaker 9 (23:09):
Think it was the totality of the entire situation over
the last couple of years. They felt that there was
more wins that ended up being the case.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
How do you explain Caleb Williams JJ McCarthy's good on script,
bad off it. Caleb actually has been great late over
the last several weeks.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
How do you explain that? What did your eyes see?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Why the struggles and then all of a sudden in
the fourth quarter, he does a bo Nicks, he does
a Peyton Manning. He's like, okay, I'm just going to
control the game every snap.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
He was incredible. That is the bet.
Speaker 9 (23:42):
Now, granted I haven't watched every snap of every moment
since he's come into the league.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
Call it the last year and a half. That was
by far.
Speaker 9 (23:49):
The best Caleb Williams performance in his young career. And
you know, you can look at last year and you
know there was a lot of chaos going on and
your coach is getting fired and offense coordinator changes. But
if we just say, okay, this year is his first
year of stability, first year with Ben Johnson, this is
the Caleb we're going to evaluate.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
It's not even close.
Speaker 9 (24:09):
I mean his ability, they were historically bad last year,
colin taking sacks, and part of that is his willingness
to play off script and his ability to extend plays,
and he brings a lot of the pressure on himself.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
But this year, I mean, the Giants had him dead
to rights ten times. They could not get him on
the ground.
Speaker 9 (24:27):
And then the piece that came together for him, especially
in the fourth quarters, not only could they not get
him on the ground, his ability to drive the ball
accurately in scramble drilled downfield. I mean, if his receivers
they had six drops by far the most of the
year for them.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
I think they only had seven coming into the game.
Drops were an issue.
Speaker 9 (24:46):
It was cold, it was windy, but it had no
impact on his ability to drive the ball beyond time. Now,
do you want to play off script football? Is that
sustainable over long periods of time? No, we have seen
that time time again. There has to be an element
of There has to be an element of rhythm, there
has to be an element of timing. And I think
(25:07):
that's still the balance that Ben Johnson's trying to bring
out of Caleb. I think they'ugh when things break down
in today's NFL, which is going to be often past
protection is very difficult.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
The rushers are very good. Scheme is good.
Speaker 9 (25:19):
You have to have a quarterback that can make second,
second level plays, meaning it's not the initial read, it's
not the initial timing. I got a playoff script. He
can do that as well as anyone. As they continue
to get him into more of the on time rhythm
component of Ben Johnson's drop that game. If that continues
to develop, That's what Chicago thought they were drafting last year.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So I felt like watching Green Bay and Philadelphia, I
was watching kind of the same thing is that both
these quarterbacks when they had elite rushing games last year,
were really excellent. But they're not Mahomes or Lamar or Allen.
Is that if you take the running game away from
both good but you see the holes. So I could
(26:03):
blame La Floor, I could blame the injuries. But Green
Bay to me, their inability to run the ball puts
more pressure, more throws on Jordan and I think he's
a really good quarterback. But in my life, Greg, there's
been about five quarterbacks that Joe Burrow can get to
the super Bowl with an atrocious old line that can
(26:24):
win games like Justin Herbert, without a run game or
a tackles that's very unique. There's five or six guys
in the planet. And I think Hurts and Love are good,
but the run games for both have disappeared, and that
means more on them. That's my view, and that that's
maybe not what they are. I mean, I can't explain
Green Bay's offense outside of that.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
What do you see?
Speaker 9 (26:48):
Yeah, I had the green Bay game, so I saw
him two weeks ago in the home loss in Lambeau
to the Panthers, which yep, you know they only scored
thirteen points, so they've scored twenty points in the last
two games. With going into the Panther game watching Jordan
Love this year, just the eye test and then diving
into some of the more metric driven analysis of just
evaluating quarterbacks, you know, looking past pass protection, looking past
(27:12):
opened routes, by scheme, like, there's a lot of ways
to really like determine how much of this is quarterback
driven and how much of this is scheme and environment
driven by all metrics, film and advanced study. Going into
that Panthers game, I thought I thought Jordan Love was
a top five quarterback in the league this season through
at the time it was seven or eight games, I
thought he was playing as well as anybody across the league.
(27:34):
And then what we've seen in the last two weeks
is you mentioned the run game, and I think there's
two there's two components to that conversation, Right, there's a
lot to be discussed about run game value and importance.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
Run game matters. Let's right, it does matter if you.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
Are Jonathan Taylor and Saquon Barkley last year, where they're
ripping off these large, chunk, explosive plays and they're running
for fifty yard touchdowns and forty yard touchdowns. You think
back to Saquon in the playoffs last year through their
Super Bowl with victory, like, yes, the run game was
so valuable because those forty to fifty yard touchdowns he's
running for are better than any pass play.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
But that is so hard to rely on.
Speaker 9 (28:15):
Very few teams have a back in a system that
can generate those plays. So all of a sudden you
started saying, Okay, what is the value of the run game?
We saw both teams last night really commit to staying
true to the run because the score allowed them. But
then you look up at the scoreboard and it's three
to nothing at the end of the first half. So
at the end of the day, in the regular season,
(28:37):
scoring points is directly tied to passing game and explosive
run game. If you don't do those two things, you
are not going to score. You might have good time
of possession, you might run for a lot of total
gross yards, you're not going to score points in the
regular season, which is an offensive driven time of year.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
Now, postseason run games more valuable.
Speaker 9 (28:59):
Defense is more valuable because we've gotten rid of all
the bad teams, all the bad teams are home sitting
on the couch. It's now just good versus good. It's
not just what offenses can throw and score a lot
of points. There's more value to it. So I think
they've got to get back to putting the ball in
Jordan Love's hand on first and second down, not being
in second and eight, because every first down is a run.
Continue to push the ball downfield, continue to give his
(29:20):
guys chances like that run game will get better the
more aggressive they are with their early down passing game.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
I think everyone.
Speaker 9 (29:28):
Always wants to look at it the other way, like
We're going to run them into run defenses and then
I'm gonna throw the ball over their head, when in reality,
the more I fear your passing game, the more favorable
situations both personnel. You're gonna play a lot of nickel
against me, a lot of little bodies on the field,
I'll run at that and light boxes.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
All of a sudden, Now my passing game leads.
Speaker 9 (29:50):
To my run game getting better, and it's typically not
the other way around.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
Most of the time.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Seahawks rams that is a that's an assignment that is
going to be wild. Seattle's been a bit more reckless
than the Rams. Rams are young on defense, not on offense.
The Seahawks are young everywhere. Go to your youngest team,
Green Bay's young and they're inconsistent. Do you worry about
(30:19):
in the end with Seattle is you know? You got Stafford,
and you got han steinright tackle, and you got Davonte.
There's a lot of beards. There's a lot of old
guys in this league. Seattle is kids in JSN, and
Darnold's still relatively young, and their best offensive lineman's a
rookie and their corners are young. How do you view
(30:40):
the game in Seattle's youth? Because I think Seattle is
stunning a lot of people. We all knew the Rams
will be fine. I don't think most people thought the
Seahawks could arguably the best be the best team in
the league.
Speaker 6 (30:52):
Yeah, first off, we're beyond excited.
Speaker 9 (30:55):
We've been thinking about this game since they gave us
the matchup a week or two ago. I think it's
the best matchup of the year. Now, how does the
game play out and how does it live up? Nobody knows,
but I would make the argument these are two of
the top three teams at worst. I could probably make
a really strong argument it's one and two in any
particular order.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
I think they're so good on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 9 (31:17):
I think your point about Seattle's youth is real, But
on some of the best teams that I've been on,
there is kind of like a ignorance's bliss to youth
where they're young, they're energetic, they're athletic, they're living, and
they're loving every moment of this. We're like, they almost
don't even realize how hard what they're doing is. They
don't realize how hard it is to win at this level.
(31:39):
Like all they know is success, All they know is
winning because they haven't been in the league long enough
to have those scars. There's a power to that, right,
there's a beauty to that where we don't have to
undo any of these bad habits, we don't need to
undo any of these bad moments because you played on
another bad team, you know, five years ago. So I
think they are young. I think they're extremely talented. They've
(32:01):
got a lot of star young players at multiple positions
on both sides of the field. And I get McDonald. McDonald,
I give them a lot of credit. After one year
of being a head coach. He took a look at
his offense last year and said, you know what, this
is not where we want to be and gino it
did not play bad by any stretch of the imagination.
(32:21):
And as an organization with which Snider and then they said,
you know what, we need to change of pace offensively,
they go out and they get Kubiak from New Orleans
who took the league by storm as a play caller
early the year, kind of fizzled when he lost Derek Carr.
They saw through that, they said, his vision of offense
is what we want to be here. We want to
be under center, we want to be play action, we
want to be explosive passing game. They get in a
(32:43):
lot of those big bodies. They put you in base
defense to throw the ball against you. It's a really
popular strategy that's becoming more kind of popular throughout the league.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
I love.
Speaker 9 (32:54):
And then defensively, you know, with a defensive head coach,
they're always going to put their identity there.
Speaker 6 (32:59):
They're going to play fast.
Speaker 9 (33:00):
Witherspoon's a stud like at DeMarcus Lawrence, and what a
great signing that we've seen him kill people for years
in Dallas like it is a really fun team to watch.
They're good on both sides of the ball and everything
I just said, if you just swapped out the Rams,
maybe outside of some of the youth, it's the exact
same story. So yeah, it's it's in my mind, it's
(33:22):
the best matchup of the year with two of the
best three or four teams, if we're being conservative, in
the entire league.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Hey, when you were in Chicago or Carolina, I don't
have the exact years, but Stafford was in the league.
He was losing a lot of games in Detroit. So
when you you had Cam and again Detroit wasn't talked about.
But as a tight end and as a guy who
really studies and thinks the game, did you know Stafford
was this good?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Like what they was losing? But were you down?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I don't know. If you were Chicago Carolina could have
been both and you had Aaron Rodgers dominating the division,
and you had Brady and you had Manning and all
these guys. And there was that guy up in Detroit
and he was young and he was out of Georgia.
Did you ever think he'd be this?
Speaker 6 (34:07):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 9 (34:07):
You know what's so funny about the quarterback position, and
we still do it today. We do it all the
time on both ends of the spectrum. We assume quarterbacks
on bad teams are bad, and we assume that good
that quarterbacks on good teams are good. So we probably
give quarterbacks too much of the credit at times, and
we probably give them too much of the blame at
(34:29):
times when oftentimes, outside of the few extremes, it's probably
a combination of team environment, coaching, and player all thrown
into the pot and mixed up. So, I mean, you
look back at some of the years he had with
Calvin Johnson, and yes, they lost a lot of games,
and it was not you know, it was not the
Detroit Lions organization that we know now under Dan Campbell.
(34:50):
It was he was always so talented, the armed what
we'd see he put up big numbers. Now, granted a
lot of that was in playing from behind and chasing points.
Speaker 6 (34:59):
But I think anybody.
Speaker 9 (35:00):
Who watched football probably could could do a good job
separating the outcome wins and losses and watch Stafford play
and say, I know chaos is ensuing around him. I
know this is dysfunction. I know there's coaching turnover and
losses are out of high like, but this dude can
flat out play and then obviously we know what's happened.
He gets put with artably the best coach in the league.
(35:23):
You know, mcveigh's probably tough. You know, he's one or
two I don't know who you'd pick over him, and
he gets put into that environment. They have immediate success,
of course, winning the Super Bowl, but then they experienced
some lows.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
He went back. Now where can the Rams figured out
what's his future? Is he going to go? Is they
going to trade him to somewhere else? Is they going
to retire?
Speaker 9 (35:43):
Like they went through some down years following that Super Bowl,
where I'm sure a lot of that experience from Stafford
paid dividends. You know, he had been in that chaos before.
And now obviously they're riding it up. They've drafted incredibly well.
They've got really talented on the defensive the ball through
the draft, and Stafford at you know, thirty eight years
(36:03):
old or whatever he is. I mean, he's probably the
MVP of the league. It's him and Drake May if
the season ended today, and pretty remarkable journey for a
guy whose talent leadership everybody do you know that has
played with Stafford, whether they won one game or they
won the Super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
Every teammate and coach loves him.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah they do.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
And he's a pro. He puts in the time in
the film room. I've seen specials on him. He's a
you know, he's a total pros pro. He's a grinder.
Greg Olsen, boy, I don't get jealous much. Seahawks rams
that that is a unbelievable matchup of just two stacked rosters,
and go crush it. Thanks man, appreciate you.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
Good seeing you.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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