November 20, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of The Herd, Colin Cowherd breaks down why Buffalo Bills star quarterback Josh Allen has been the NFL’s true MVP for years - surpassing even Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes in overall value and impact.
He discusses the report of frustration inside the Eagles organization about Jalen Hurts and if this is a big issue or not
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, it's Thursday. It is Thursday, and we're ready
to go. Greg co Sell in one hour live in Chicago.
It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
So tonight's Thursday Night football. And I just read a
(00:47):
headline today that Keon Coleman second round, top of the
second round wide receiver, second round wide receiver they drafted
the Buffalo Bills. They're gonna bench him again. He's not
gonna start again, so he could be a bust. And
yet it has absolutely no impact on Josh Allen. And
I want to talk about Josh Allen. He is the
(01:09):
best football player to me on the planet. He's one
of the five best football players I've ever seen. Lawrence
Taylor's in that group, Jerry Rice probably in that group.
Remember last year everybody was talking about Lamar Jackson Josh
Allen MVP controversy. Let me put it in perspective, just
this year, in the past five weeks. In fact, in
the past two months, the Bills are five to zero
(01:33):
when Josh has three or more touchdowns. Yet they're zero
and three when he scores three or fewer touchdowns. They
literally need him to score three touchdowns minimum in the
last two months for Josh Allen to just help Buffalo
win a game. No franchise that I ever remember has
(01:55):
been this quarterback dependent. Oh Lamar Lamar. This year, the
Ravens started Tyler Huntley in the game, scored thirty points
and beat the seven and three Chicago Bears, and look good.
Looked really good with Tyler Huntley. Just think about how
valuable Josh Allen is in the past two months. He's
got to score minimum three touchdowns to just win games.
(02:19):
Last year, Patrick Mahomes was sixteenth in passer rating, only
ninth in touchdown passes, and yet the Chiefs went fifteen
to two. Because Kansas City, top to bottom does so
many things well. Jalen Hurts had the same number of
touchdown passes last year as Kirk Cousins, and they won
the Super Bowl because Philly does so many things well,
(02:41):
even Joe Burrow. They couldn't make the playoffs with him.
But when he gets hurt, Flacco still comes in and
tolls for two hundred and fifty yards. The offense still works.
Josh Allen has to be superman for Buffalo to just
win games. And think about this, and this is one
of the reasons I thought Josh was the MVP and
(03:03):
I out on Lamar Jackson defender. But from two thousand
until Lamar Jackson showed up, the Ravens were not only good,
they won two Super Bowls, and not with Joe Montana.
With Joe Flacco and Trent Dilferd. The Ravens could win
super Bowls pre Lamar Jackson with what you consider to be,
(03:27):
you know, middling quarterbacks, although Flacco was pretty good Baltimore,
excuse me. Buffalo couldn't win a playoff game, couldn't win
a single playoff game before Josh Allen. That's the difference.
They're building a new stadium in Buffalo for one reason,
(03:48):
not because it just got chilly. The snow flurries didn't
just happen in the last two years. They're building it
because of Josh Allen. Because the game he played in
New England forty five million hour wins and New England
won and only had to throw like three times, and
they're like, you know this Northeast weather megan in the
way of Josh Allen's greatness. He's literally getting a billion
(04:09):
dollar plus stadium built. And it's not just this year
that he has twenty eight total touchdowns most in the league,
or thirty seven offensive touchdowns most of the NFL. The
Bills do as a team, it's that seventy six percent
of their offensive touchdowns come from one guy. I mean,
if he was a stock, your financial advisor would tell
(04:31):
you to diversify. You've got too many eggs in one basket.
The Chiefs, the Ravens, the Eagles, they've won Super Bowls
with Nick Foles and Trent Dilfer. They've been winning way
before their star quarterback showed up. Buff Look who won
a playoff game for twenty five years one here's Sean McDermott.
(04:55):
Bill's played tonight on Josh Allen.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
When he's on his you look out. I mean, he's
the best there is in the business. And he was
on his game last week, that's for sure, and the
offense was rolling.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, So we've been on something for a while, and
I do think the smarter viewers and listeners in Pittsburgh
agree with us. You know, there's a percentage of fans
who just can never see. They got the blinders on.
But there's a story today, a headline that says the
Steelers have yet to get their money's worth on DK Metcalf.
(05:30):
So he's having career lows. And I warned you about this.
I said he's moody, he does not run a great
route tree and Seattle knows that JS ends a more
complete receiver. But DK Metcalf is just a symptom of
a greater sickness called an offensive plagued for seven years.
(05:52):
Doesn't matter who the quarterback is in Pittsburgh, the coordinator,
the running back, the left tackle, they're bad on offense.
It's an underlying issue. I'll give you an example. George
Pickens leaves Pittsburgh. He is lighting it up, lighting it up,
most yards, touchdowns through ten games, more this year than
(06:13):
all of last season. George Pickens has exploded, leaving Mike
Tomlin's team. DK Metcalf is having career lows, yet he
was better in Seattle with Gino Smith than he is
now with Aaron Rodgers. I have been saying for years,
are the Steelers just a more stable version of the
New York Jets? Where great players leave and get better,
(06:39):
coaches leave and are better, they enter, everybody shrinks. Think
about this. I'll give you another example. Kevin Dotts, an
offensive guard, wasn't slated. Mike Tomlin did not see him
as a starter. Since McVeigh and the Rams have picked
him up, he's a top two offensive guard in the league.
(06:59):
John Who's Pro Bowl Miami last year, Steelers bring him in.
He has one hundred and sixty five total yards. Are
you seeing a trend? Trying to get the Steelers to
understand offense is like trying to get your grandparents to
understand six to seven The Jets and the Steelers. Talented
athletes enter and shrink. Jets and Steelers talented athletes exit
(07:24):
and shine. John news Smith, Kevin Dotson, DK Metcalf, George Pickens.
It doesn't matter the quarterback is. You can all blame
Aaron Rodgers. It's not an Aaron Rodgers issue. That's why
I've been defending Aaron all the time. Aaron just stepped
into the Pittsburgh Steelers quickstand right now. This year, the
Steelers wide receivers have the fewest targets and receptions in
(07:46):
the league. What do you think Aaron can't get the
ball to him? I have been defending Aaron all year saying,
throw to the tight ends, throw to the tight ends,
like that's those are the money shots for this offense.
They have enormous size. So it's just very interesting. People
looked at the DK Metcalf signing and went, oh, sort
(08:06):
of like Tyreek Hill, Oh, he's gonna change everything in Miami.
Not outcomes. DK Metcalf gonna change everything. The Steelers have
become a more refined, less chaotic version of the Jets.
Offensive players go to Pittsburgh and New York and they shrink,
they exit and they shine. I mean, look at Sam Darnold, now,
(08:29):
look at George Pickens, now look at Kevin dottson that.
And yet John hus Smith with Miami's a pro bowler.
He's lost in Pittsburgh. So Aaron wants to play this week.
Aaron is gonna do it if he's healthy. But everybody's
pointing at Aaron. It's not Aaron. Here's Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
He's the type of guy and has the type of profile.
It doesn't require a lot of physical work and an
effort to be ready to play, and that's helpful. A
little later in the week, we'll take a look at
Aaron and again, as I mentioned, the variables are stabilizing
it and making sure that he's safe and he can
protect himself, brace himself as he falls, et cetera. Pain tolerance,
(09:15):
But that doesn't seem to be an issue with Aaron.
He wanted to go back in the game on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, so it did this again. DK Metcalf is just
a symptom of it. It is a much bigger underlying
issue offensively, last six seven years, bottom five offense. How's
that possible. They've drafted good players, they have good players. Well,
you start looking at Kevin Dotson and you'd start looking
at Metcalf shrinking and George Pickens exploding and John Husmith's shrinking.
(09:47):
They've had different coordinatorst it, different quarterbacks, they bring it
in all sorts of different and it's always the same.
And it's also a team that tends to get worse
post Thanksgiving. Yeah, there are varying arguments why. But if
you start looking at their schedule last year they fell
apart late. Start looking at them now, start looking at
(10:10):
that schedule. Ravens late at Cleveland, at Detroit, at Baltimore,
here comes Buffalo at Chicago. Is this weekend the beginning
of a harsh slide into the toilet? We'll see interesting story.
(10:32):
It is interesting by a very reputable journalist from Philadelphia,
very I mean he's up for the Heard Big Jay
Journalism Award. A journalist has come out J Mack and
he's saying, listen, I've been covering this Philadelphia Eagle team
for a long time, and you know this is you
(10:52):
and I are you up here? We're not boots on
the ground. And when you used to cover a local
team when you were a sports writer, or when I
was doing local TV and I could be in the
Blazer's locker room, at the Buccaneers locker room, it's a
big advantage. You hear stuff, you see stuff, and you've
got all sorts of sources and people that you know.
If people have you know, an as to grind. They
(11:14):
love athletes and coaches and you know executives love to
text you, well, there's a there's a journalist in Philadelphia saying, yeah,
this this Eagle's locker room. It's not all aj brown Re,
a hardened, re beautiful journalist.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
An ink stained wretch, is just voicing. You know, listen,
this is the climate we're in, though, Colin. Right now, honestly,
the only way to break through and get clicks and
go viral is to have the off the record stuff.
The in sendiary comments, well, hey, everything being peachy keen
with the Super Bowl champs.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That ain't clicking.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
That's not making the Herd, right, would you agree with me?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Well, I don't think this writer cares about making the herd.
I don't think that's his goal.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Mine Getting on TV shows, having people talk about him
on national radio TV, that's what That's what you get
when you get Hey, the locker room is a powder keg.
I mean they've won twenty seven of their last thirty
games or something like that.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, I'll just report on this respected journalist reporting around
the corner. I think he won some crong Kite awards.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 5 (12:24):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But here's the thing. We never have enough time to
get to everything we want to get.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, you blubber li lame in me. Well you know
what it's called over promise. You should be good at
it because you've been over promising women for years.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if and I are arguing about
something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue
on our after show called over Promised. Well, if you
don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check
out over Promise and also uncensored, by the way, so
maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
A little harder.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
There you go over Promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So you're now entering the Noble Zone sponsored by Credible
dreat rates none of the bowl. I love good journalism.
I know because I am on for three hours a
day and I'm not in arenas in locker rooms. I
need sources, but I depend greatly on really smart journalists
(13:52):
and reporters, and we try to give them all credit.
I think it's very interesting. So Derek Gunn has been
covering the e for years and he started talking on
the seth Joinner. I guess it was show or podcast
about the staff getting frustrated in Philly with Jalen Hurts.
(14:13):
He said, I'm basically telling you there, there's people in
that organization that are frustrated with a quarterback situation right now,
and I want you to listen to a guy that
covers the Eagles and has for years, Derek Gunn.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
Those things that dissected on film during practice, those things
that talked about among the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinated
a head coach. It has been constantly discussed all season long.
Yet when they transition to a field on a football game,
he plays his game, not the game the coaches want
him to play. And you look at a lot of quarterbacks,
they're gonna sling it, They're gonna try to throw it
(14:45):
through it out of a needle. Sometimes you just have
to take that chance. That's not his game. That's why
he stands back there. A lot of times he's patting
the ball, patting the ball, and it throws the time
into the offense off. The rhythm is thrown off. I
don't think that this one they can They can't get
him out of it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
They can't get him out of it. Why do I
believe Derek Gunn? Why do I believe Derek Gun's not spitballing?
This is exactly what I told you after what I
heard this summer. I said it in July or August
that I was told that he wasn't Hurts, wasn't that
popular with coaches or the locker room. He's not a
go he's not a raw, raw let's go out and
get beers guy. He's very much his own man, his
(15:22):
own beat. I respect the hell out of him, high IQ,
high EQ, great leadership, tough as a cheap steak. The
kid is. I like him. I don't think he's great
from the pocket, but I heard from somebody very close.
It is an impenetrable source, one of my best and
he's like, you're not that popular. And it's not Russell
(15:43):
Wilson Seahawks bad. It's not that I'm not saying that,
but there is a sense by some of the people
that he's a little, a little cliched, a little too polished.
Here's some of the things he has said when he
goes to a podium in and around the area in Philadelphia.
Either win or you lose? Are you either win or
(16:04):
you learn. That's how I feel.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Either win or you learn.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
One of these nice championships are better.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
And you go through the course of these things and
you learn that successes.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And built out of approval. It's built off of endurance.
He's built out of strength. I know I didn't walk
through that walk through that fire just to smell of smoke.
So don't finish it off that there. Thanks, you know, Listen,
you could say it's just being philosophical. Well, never forget
Socrates was not popular in his locker room either. People
(16:34):
don't want Socrates or Aristotle. They want a guy Brady's
pounding beers in the off season with a slot receiver
from Lehigh, you know, I mean Mahomes, Peyton Manning. They're
one of the guys. Jalen's not really, I've been told
one of the guys. But I'll defend him because he wins.
He's tough. Philadelphia is a loud, loud city. Talk radio
(16:56):
is huge. Columnists are aggressive. I mean, they've got their
secure guard, Sirianni. He's animated. It's not an easy town
to win. It's as tough a job. I mean, Bill
Parcells told Andy Reid when he took that job it
is the toughest place to coach in the league. So
I think his personality works in Philadelphia. I think Jalen,
Dak Prescott, a Jalen, a Justin Herbert, those kind of
(17:19):
guys would work in Philadelphia because they kind of diffuse
heat and noise. But he is I was told this summer,
you know, he's not that popular. I'm not saying quarterbacks
have to be, but it really does help if you're
a unifier. So and the other thing is he's going
to average. He's on track to have under two hundred
yards passing per game this year in an offensive league
(17:40):
with a great O line, with an offensive head coach,
and two great receivers. So again, he's winning. That cures everything,
and he's winning big. But Philadelphia got rid of Carson Wins,
you know, I mean Philadelphia, and he was going to
be an MVP that year. So Philadelphia does things that
bad teams do. They just do it well. They make
a lot of moves with coaches, they make a lot
(18:02):
of moves with players. And all I'm saying is there
is his story. Today. Derek Gunn, longtime Eagle reporter, is
saying essentially what I was told this summer. He had
more information than I did, but I was told that
Hurts isn't one of the guys. He's a little slick,
probably more mature than the average young professional athlete. But
(18:24):
it's I don't think it's a fire, I don't think
it's noise. But it's actual journalism, it's actual a story. Remember,
local reporters would rather not get pushed back in hate mail.
Most local reporters don't have the courage to print really
unpleasant news. Much easier for me to do it. I
don't live in Philly, so I mean, Derek Gunn doesn't
(18:44):
wake up thinking, hey, I got bad news for you,
because then Derek has to go back into that locker
room and Derek's got to go interview that coach. So
when I was in local markets, I remember being outspoken
and sometimes viewed as negative, and I was just like, oh,
it's my job. I don't care about it. I'll go
face the heat malaccer room, but I'm not gonna lie.
(19:05):
So I appreciate anytime a local reporter can deliver really
unpleasant news. I think it's hard, much harder than it
is for me here sitting, you know, thousands of miles away.
J Mack with the news. No, no, turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
This is the herd Line news.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
We got an animated cow herd today, and I get spicy.
Let's get started with Caleb Williams and your Chicago Bears, Colin.
They are the most unlikely division leader at this point
in the season. Remember negative six point differential. Here's Caleb
Williams talking about the team's mindset going into the final
stretch of the.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Season, and this is speaking on quarterback terms. You know,
I don't know if you can go twenty five for
twenty five, but I do know that you can go
one for one, you know, each and every single time,
twenty five times. And so just focusing on where we're
at and focusing on being one in one and that's
that's me say on but that's want to know this week,
(20:04):
and you know we focus on that, we go want
to know each week.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
You know, we'll be a sack where you want to be, boy,
living in the moment. I like that.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Everybody's sounding like Russell Wilson these days.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Huh. You can't look at all.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
The one one at a time, one one brick at
a time, right, Huh? Interesting, Colin, You're you're really loving
these Bears team. Let's just I don't know if you
can call the schedule up, but they better beat Pittsburgh
this weekend.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
And if they do, they're eight and three now coming
on that.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That ain't that does not lock up anything because they're losing.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
A Philly I'm not saying lock up, but if a
team is eight and three in the National Football League,
that's a good team.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Oh heck, yeah, that's a major improvement. Ben Johnson's a win.
But again the schedule, they're losing a Philly, probably losing
at green Bay, probably losing a green Bay again San
fran Detroit. I mean, if they finished nine and eight
and missed the playoffs, it's still a successful season.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
No, not if they beat Pittsburgh this weekend to go
eight and three. If they be Pittsburgh this weekend, I
think they will. They're a double digit win team.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Okay, fine, give me the other Okay, with the Pittsburgh win,
give me the other two wins. Browns is one at home.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
We'll give you the Browns, Browns at home and green
Bay at home. Okay, I'm sorry. I've watched green Bay
lose to Carolina at home at Lambeau and Cleveland. I'm
not blown away by green Bay.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Fairly certain green Bay's won like fifteen of sixteen from
the Bears. I've got to double check my math on
that one. But don't just temper expectations. The playoffs are
not a locked. All right, Let's go to a team
in dire straits Colin the Kansas City Chiefs. Boy, people
at this network are really nervous because you know what
if they lose to the colch this weekend. It's starting
(21:41):
to feel like no playoffs this year, you know, like
I called. Anyways, here's Patrick Mahomes talking about the Chiefs offense,
which stinks out loud right now.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
I'm just not making the throws is pretty much the
biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Guys are getting open and give me chances to make
the plays down the field.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Ask I give them chances to make plays.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
What happened to Xavier Worthy and Sherry Rice. I'm sorry,
Rashi Rice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Why here's my thing? Three days ago I said part
of the reason they're losing is Mahomes. Everybody's like, whoa
Patrick Mahomes comes out and says one of the reasons
we're losing is me. There's no question about it is.
Right now, on the road, he has been a c quarterback.
He has not played well on the road. He's been
pretty good at home, and that's okay. It's easier to
(22:31):
play at home than it is on the road. I'm
not saying Patrick's alone on that. But Patrick, the last
two years, when you get him away from Arrowhead and
this year is specifically, he's not a very good quarterback.
He's really been average. Josh Allen is superman. Regardless where
you put him. Patrick has struggled away from Arrowhead this year.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So last year they basically luck boxed their way in
all these one score games to eleven or zero. A
couple of those go the other way and it's like, oh,
maybe the Chiefs aren't amazing. So now it's all falling
apart and Colin tackle issue is real, Okay. Juwan Taylor
grades out as the sixty ninth of seventy six tackles.
He has the most penalties of any right tackle in
the league.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And Josh Simmons, Yeah, that's their number one issue in
the draft, is getting a right tackle. Then they might
need a left two. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
I mean, Josh Simmons kind of vanished for a little while,
had a personal issue. He came back, he was not outstanding.
I'm just you know, the Colts, I don't know if
they can get after the quarterback enough. But I'll just
say this, between their defensive coordinator and their offensive mind,
they had an entire off week to prepare for this game.
I just need Chiefs fans to be ready. There's a
world where the Colts come in there and then there's win.
(23:37):
Just outright, twenty four to twenty twenty one to twenty.
I would not be surprised if Indy won this game.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
This is a stay away game for me. It's a
stay away game. I think Indy Offha Bye is good.
What's interesting to me about this game is I think
we're gonna get a bit of a shootout because the
Colts with that on line in that run game off
of Bye are going to score. And I think Kansas
City against that Colts back and I'm interested to see
Sauce Gardner now has been in the system for a
few weeks. I'm interested to see what Sauce does with
(24:05):
the Colts. This game is a really interesting game.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
So a lot of zone from the Colts, which could
make Sauce very dangerous. Long arms, good instincts. Just be careful,
Chiefs fans. Final story is not great from the New
York Giants. I'm Dual Carter. This kind of flew under
the radar. Colin He was benched early against the Packers
and report surfaced that he basically was in a recovery
(24:30):
session instead of being in a team meeting. There was
another report that he was asleep and missed a walkthrough.
Ab Dual Carter finally talked about it, the number one
pick out of Penn State. I feel like it's not
how you start, it's how you finish. So I'm gonna
finish strong. This is on the heels of Dan Campbell,
the Lions coach, saying he's sensing a fresh energy from
(24:51):
Giants interim coach Mike Kafka. Obviously Lions are big favorites Colin.
I do want to add one of the reports that
Brian Dable this was happening with ub Dual Carter earlier
this year, and Dabel was just like, okay, fine, get better.
But he didn't bench you, Davie trying to keep his job.
So Kafka comes in, I'm ruling with an iron fist.
You're not doing this on my watch.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, the knock on Kafka was that he was pro player,
doesn't have a ton of presents, So maybe this is
Kafka showing people upstairs. This is Mike Kafka saying, hey,
if I'm named coach, none of this nonsense is gonna work.
So I do think when you're an interim coach, let's
(25:34):
be honest, you're the substitute teacher trying to impress the
principle you want to make sure the student's still the principal.
In the lunch room. Man, we were like, mister Brady's
really really good. This is Mike Kafka knowing hearing his
weakness is He's not really a burst through the door
(25:56):
hold player Accountable doesn't have a Brable shot on Peyton presence,
and maybe he's trying to show a little of that
to the guys upstairs, the owner and Joe Shane.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And at the same time, I'm gonna give Dabel a
pass for not benching him because Dabell's fighting for his
job and we all have done crazy stuff to fight
for our job, like Dabel wants to stay in point.
I'm just gonna go on record, I think Brian Dable's
gonna be a head coach in the NFL next season.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So do I.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Then?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
By the way, I think Robert Sala for the Niners
is I think I think Sala and da Ball are
both getting another shot. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Or Dabel could go to college if he wants, there
are colleges interested in him.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
By the way, J mckle the news, Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by the herd Line News. I
don't get this take at all Pat forty. I know
Pat is a sportswriter covers college football. The headline of
the story is Lane Kiffin's coaching circus is sabotaging Old
Missus great college football playoff dream Lane Kiffer and is
(27:00):
under contract at ole Miss until twenty thirty one. He
has no obligation to publicly sign an extension on All
Missus terms. Well, Kurt Signetti, Kurt Signetti doesn't have Lane
Kiffin's leverage. Kurt Signetti is not being recruited by NFL teams.
(27:26):
Lane Kiffin is. Lane Kiffin can go pro or college.
Matt rule came out. Matt Ruhle doesn't have Lane Kiffin's leverage.
Do you know how rarely college football coaches have leverage?
Almost never? So if Lane's got a little leverage and
he's under contract until twenty thirty one, he's the reason
(27:49):
Ole Miss you're on. He's the reason All miss is
relevant today. He doesn't have to on all Missus terms
when he's under contract for five more years, come out
on your terms. Absolutely not. He's got no obligation to
do that. And coaches never have leverage. I mean, you
(28:09):
know why he has leverage because Florida fired their coach,
Billy Napier in season, and LSU fired their coach in season.
Lane didn't do that. Lane didn't create it. So Lane,
because LSU and Florida fired their coaches, Lane has to
change how he views contract extension talk what that's ridiculous.
(28:35):
Blame Florida at LSU, But Lane Kiffin, there's no obligation.
And by the way, you know who's going to ruin
Old Missus playoffs, Ohio State or Georgia. They'll do it
for him because they're not beating either of those teams.
So you know, this is so strange to me. This
is the idea that he's sabotaging this season. Let me
(28:56):
just tell you this. In any profession, if you have
five years left on a contract, you're under no obligation
to announce publicly. Hey I'm staying forever. I mean, I
don't I understand why Old miss is doing it because
they've very rarely been this successful and they're terrified. But
Lane Kiffin's job is to coach football and win games,
(29:20):
not to appeal or appease or play CAI administrators. You
got him under contract for five years. That here was
Joel Klatt yesterday and Lane's future and he thinks he's leaving.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
If he wanted to stay, he would stay and we
would have already known it. Look at all the other
coaches around the country that have said their staying or
signed extensions. And Ole Miss, I know, has told him
money is not a factor here. Whatever you get offered,
we will match it. So it's not that he's gonna
make more somewhere else, which is starting to lead me
to believe. And again I will fully own I have
(29:55):
been all over the map on this and Lane, but
Lane is a unique cat. Now I don't know if
he can come back to old Miss. You can't lead
him on for this long. And then now there's going
to start to be animus, like why aren't you signing
an extension? What's the problem? And I think he's going
to Florida.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Now he may go to Florida. I think Florida is
a better job than LSU. But I'll say this again.
So Joel's first comments were, well, the other guys are
doing it. When the Mariner signed Robinson Canoe to a
ten year deal, did everybody else have to sign their
all star infield er to a ten year deal? When
the Cleveland Browns guaranteed all that money for Deshaun Watson,
(30:36):
why do I have to as a GM say well,
I'm going to guarantee my money to a quarterback. Since
when do the Cleveland Browns dictate terms? Since when does
old Miss administrators dictate terms? You're lucky to have him,
and yeah, he's gonna get offer after offer after offer
and after offer. If Florida and LSU don't fire their coaches,
would you know, we wouldn't be in this situation. So
(30:58):
I'm not gonna let somebody else dick tate my terms. Okay,
I'm coaching. I'm winning every day, I'm delivering. That's all
I care about, and that's all Miss should care about.
Shadur Sanders starting this weekend. I'm so fascinated by this,
not because of Shadure, because of his delusional fan boys,
(31:20):
and we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
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Sports app right now and enter for a free shot
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Speaker 1 (31:42):
Greg Cosel best fifteen minutes every week is joining us.
Phil sim stops by two. So Shadeur Sanders is going
to start against the Raiders. I like Cleveland to win.
There's something called the Strissand effect. It's when somebody tries
(32:02):
to hide news and it ends up making it a
bigger story. That's that's what the Cleveland Brown conspiracy theorists
believe is happening. That Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Berry are
trying to barry Shader Sanders, and therefore these conspiracy theorists think, no,
(32:23):
you're not. We're gonna make it a bigger story. Dear
Chaduer Truthers, ask yourself, what does Cleveland or the NFL
have to benefit by sabotaging Shador Sanders. Number One, Young
fans like him. Week one of the season, he had
a top five jersey. He had good ratings in college.
(32:45):
He's kind of interesting. I'm interested. Very few mediocre quarterbacks
or bad quarterbacks I care about. He's won, He's got
some charisma. His dad was a superstar the NFL. The
NFL has made and they did this years ago when
Jerry Jones complained about Tony Romo getting hit so hard
that They've really wrapped their quarterbacks in like, you know,
(33:10):
like saran wrap, to protect them. You can't hit the quarterback,
you can't drive them into the ground. They don't like
quarterback injuries. They want thirty two interesting teams. And right
now we've got ten teams. I won't count Miami because
I still think offensively they're interesting. But now that Penix
is out, Atlanta's one of them. We have ten unwatchable teams.
We have ten unwatchable teams. Like the bottom of the NBA.
(33:31):
The quarterbacks is so valuable now. If you don't have
the right quarterback, you're unwatchable. And so they want I mean,
the newspaper industry may be dying, but not the Herd Herald.
Here are the two headlines the NFL wants Monday morning.
They would Cleveland would love this in the NFL. Would
Shadure looks prime time? Sanders throws three touchdowns against the Raiders.
(33:56):
And if that one's not good enough, how about this
one shoudure enough? Sanders right fit for Cleveland. Okay, The
funny thing about this conspiracy theory, it's got four stages.
There's been four different conspiracies. The first one was he
dropped to the fifth round. The league is against him. Yeah,
(34:19):
I'm not gonna buy into that one. The second one was, well,
he's on the scout team. He's behind Dylan Gabriel. Okay.
The third one was, oh, so, now the Cleveland cops
are in on it. They gave him two speeding tickets,
so now you have the NFL, Kevin Stefanski and law
enforcement are all in on it. And then the fourth
(34:42):
one was, I mean, how can you play him? He
didn't get any reps with the first team. Josh Dobbs
won a game without a practice in Minnesota. Okay, stop,
You've got cops in on it, the league in on it,
the fans ski in on it, the GM in on it.
Here's the truth, and conspiracy theories begin when you just
(35:04):
don't like the truth. The truth is he's immature, that's indisputable,
and he's not that good. I'm rooting for him because
I don't root against young people. Even Baker Mayfield when
I used to whack him for Johnny Manziel, I always
wanted him to win. I want him to be good.
You watch the one o'clock window. You ever watch the
(35:25):
one o'clock window on Red zone. It gets ugly fast.
They don't put the good quarterbacks in the one o'clock window.
Josh Allen's playing later, Lamar Mau Holmes. They're not at
the one o'clock window very often, right, so Caleb increasingly
they want to get him out of the one o'clock window.
So here is Shaduur on his start against the Raiders.
Speaker 9 (35:46):
I know our fans have a lot of expectations in Hope,
and I would be doing a disservice to myself, in
disservice to the organization if I didn't feel like I
am the guy with the circumstances. Everything up and that's great,
you know. I like pressure in life. I'm just excited
for everything.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
This is a bizarrely fascinating game that the NFL can
put up the Browns and the Raiders, and I want
to watch it. My guess is he looks very good
on some plays. I always thought he was more mobile
than all the all the NFL draft Guruz gave him
credit for. We saw him spin move this past weekend.
(36:28):
I think he's a little bit more mobile than people think.
I also think he throws a pretty ball. I thought
he had to throw it to the ends on this weekend.
That should have been a touchdown and he would have
capped off the comeback. So and I also think he's
gonna throw some really bad picks because he tends to
hold on to the ball too long. And I also
think he runs backwards, which he did in college. So
I think it's gonna be a totally mixed bag. I
do think he's got the best defense in this game,
(36:50):
and that gives him a real chance to win. Probably
why I would take him. I like his coach better
and I like his defense better. So I think Cleveland's
gonna win with him. But he's going to run backwards
on more than one occasion. It drives Stefanski crazy. And
he's also going to throw a really bad pick. I mean,
just but that's the reality of young quarterbacks. But I
(37:12):
do think he's more talented than the fifth round I
always did. But you can't deny he's been immature. The
speeding tickets, you know, legendary tanking, pre draft interviews. You know,
you gotta be you gotta do better than that. I
have a lot on this topic. I just want to
(37:34):
share this. Diana Russini on her podcast dropped this, so
we all know. JJ McCarthy is struggling. He's got the
lowest passer rating in the NFL for a starting quarterback,
like by a lot. He's last in completion percentage TDD,
interception ratio passer rating among thirty three qualified quarterbacks. No
reason to bury the kid. But he's not great at all.
(37:55):
But she said, there's an interesting line here. But more
than that, it's the vibes around him all season have
been weird. From how he was really doing in camp.
It was like they were hiding or suppressing information to
the fact that Carson Wentz we discovered was actually trying
to play through a torn labrum before finally going on
(38:15):
IR and then suddenly JJ McCarthy was healthy enough to
play once again, it does feel weird. And now I've
said play him until the end of the season. There's
no reason to not play. But this does, This does
Diana Russini's opinion here does validate and double down on
(38:38):
a truth. If he was a cornerback, a wide receiver,
a week side linebacker, or a safety, I wouldn't care
as much about his slow start. I would be willing
to be more patient. But the reason I'm so brutal
on Johnny Manziel or Baker Mayfield or Cam Newton or
a JJ McCarthy is. Quarterback is the position that everybody
(39:01):
relies on, including the coach, to eat in the NBA.
Over my lifetime, it's become almost almost positionless. I mean,
what is lebron whatever? They need that night shooter distributor
three four. But even parents with their children will name
(39:22):
a specific child to be executor of the will. They
feel he or she's better with money, assets, and responsibility.
Even a parent has a hierarchy in the will for
their own kids. And that's the reality of pro football
(39:43):
college two but more pro football quarterbacks have to be
more mature, faster, and the weird thing doesn't play. And
for the record, Caleb Williams, bo Nicks Drake may are
durable and nobody wants to hear this, and it sounds unfair,
(40:04):
but JJ McCarthy could have twenty seven starts already and
he's got five. So one of the reasons people worried
about Panix, uh oh, he's hurt again. And Jaden Daniels
the number one concern was durability. He's hurt again. So
some of this is if JJ was coming in light
in the world on fire, you could stomach the durability issues,
(40:27):
but it's the weird stuff the durability. He's struggling, and
it's unfair. But quarterbacks different maturity matters, Starting quickly matters,
durability matters. It just all matters, more.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I don't mind if I got a little flaky outside linebacker,
corner got a little ego. Can't have a quarterback like that.
Just care. It's unfair, but it's true. Greg co sellneck
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, it's Thursday. It is Thursday, and we're ready
to go. Greg co Sell in one hour live in Chicago.
It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
So tonight's Thursday Night football. And I just read a
(00:47):
headline today that Keon Coleman second round, top of the
second round wide receiver, second round wide receiver they drafted
the Buffalo Bills. They're gonna bench him again. He's not
gonna start again, so he could be a bust. And
yet it has absolutely no impact on Josh Allen. And
I want to talk about Josh Allen. He is the
(01:09):
best football player to me on the planet. He's one
of the five best football players I've ever seen. Lawrence
Taylor's in that group, Jerry Rice probably in that group.
Remember last year everybody was talking about Lamar Jackson Josh
Allen MVP controversy. Let me put it in perspective, just
this year, in the past five weeks. In fact, in
the past two months, the Bills are five to zero
(01:33):
when Josh has three or more touchdowns. Yet they're zero
and three when he scores three or fewer touchdowns. They
literally need him to score three touchdowns minimum in the
last two months for Josh Allen to just help Buffalo
win a game. No franchise that I ever remember has
(01:55):
been this quarterback dependent. Oh Lamar Lamar. This year, the
Ravens started Tyler Huntley in the game, scored thirty points
and beat the seven and three Chicago Bears, and look good.
Looked really good with Tyler Huntley. Just think about how
valuable Josh Allen is in the past two months. He's
got to score minimum three touchdowns to just win games.
(02:19):
Last year, Patrick Mahomes was sixteenth in passer rating, only
ninth in touchdown passes, and yet the Chiefs went fifteen
to two. Because Kansas City, top to bottom does so
many things well. Jalen Hurts had the same number of
touchdown passes last year as Kirk Cousins, and they won
the Super Bowl because Philly does so many things well,
(02:41):
even Joe Burrow. They couldn't make the playoffs with him.
But when he gets hurt, Flacco still comes in and
tolls for two hundred and fifty yards. The offense still works.
Josh Allen has to be superman for Buffalo to just
win games. And think about this, and this is one
of the reasons I thought Josh was the MVP and
(03:03):
I out on Lamar Jackson defender. But from two thousand
until Lamar Jackson showed up, the Ravens were not only good,
they won two Super Bowls, and not with Joe Montana.
With Joe Flacco and Trent Dilferd. The Ravens could win
super Bowls pre Lamar Jackson with what you consider to be,
(03:27):
you know, middling quarterbacks, although Flacco was pretty good Baltimore,
excuse me. Buffalo couldn't win a playoff game, couldn't win
a single playoff game before Josh Allen. That's the difference.
They're building a new stadium in Buffalo for one reason,
(03:48):
not because it just got chilly. The snow flurries didn't
just happen in the last two years. They're building it
because of Josh Allen. Because the game he played in
New England forty five million hour wins and New England
won and only had to throw like three times, and
they're like, you know this Northeast weather megan in the
way of Josh Allen's greatness. He's literally getting a billion
(04:09):
dollar plus stadium built. And it's not just this year
that he has twenty eight total touchdowns most in the league,
or thirty seven offensive touchdowns most of the NFL. The
Bills do as a team, it's that seventy six percent
of their offensive touchdowns come from one guy. I mean,
if he was a stock, your financial advisor would tell
(04:31):
you to diversify. You've got too many eggs in one basket.
The Chiefs, the Ravens, the Eagles, they've won Super Bowls
with Nick Foles and Trent Dilfer. They've been winning way
before their star quarterback showed up. Buff Look who won
a playoff game for twenty five years one here's Sean McDermott.
(04:55):
Bill's played tonight on Josh Allen.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
When he's on his you look out. I mean, he's
the best there is in the business. And he was
on his game last week, that's for sure, and the
offense was rolling.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, So we've been on something for a while, and
I do think the smarter viewers and listeners in Pittsburgh
agree with us. You know, there's a percentage of fans
who just can never see. They got the blinders on.
But there's a story today, a headline that says the
Steelers have yet to get their money's worth on DK Metcalf.
(05:30):
So he's having career lows. And I warned you about this.
I said he's moody, he does not run a great
route tree and Seattle knows that JS ends a more
complete receiver. But DK Metcalf is just a symptom of
a greater sickness called an offensive plagued for seven years.
(05:52):
Doesn't matter who the quarterback is in Pittsburgh, the coordinator,
the running back, the left tackle, they're bad on offense.
It's an underlying issue. I'll give you an example. George
Pickens leaves Pittsburgh. He is lighting it up, lighting it up,
most yards, touchdowns through ten games, more this year than
(06:13):
all of last season. George Pickens has exploded, leaving Mike
Tomlin's team. DK Metcalf is having career lows, yet he
was better in Seattle with Gino Smith than he is
now with Aaron Rodgers. I have been saying for years,
are the Steelers just a more stable version of the
New York Jets? Where great players leave and get better,
(06:39):
coaches leave and are better, they enter, everybody shrinks. Think
about this. I'll give you another example. Kevin Dotts, an
offensive guard, wasn't slated. Mike Tomlin did not see him
as a starter. Since McVeigh and the Rams have picked
him up, he's a top two offensive guard in the league.
(06:59):
John Who's Pro Bowl Miami last year, Steelers bring him in.
He has one hundred and sixty five total yards. Are
you seeing a trend? Trying to get the Steelers to
understand offense is like trying to get your grandparents to
understand six to seven The Jets and the Steelers. Talented
athletes enter and shrink. Jets and Steelers talented athletes exit
(07:24):
and shine. John news Smith, Kevin Dotson, DK Metcalf, George Pickens.
It doesn't matter the quarterback is. You can all blame
Aaron Rodgers. It's not an Aaron Rodgers issue. That's why
I've been defending Aaron all the time. Aaron just stepped
into the Pittsburgh Steelers quickstand right now. This year, the
Steelers wide receivers have the fewest targets and receptions in
(07:46):
the league. What do you think Aaron can't get the
ball to him? I have been defending Aaron all year saying,
throw to the tight ends, throw to the tight ends,
like that's those are the money shots for this offense.
They have enormous size. So it's just very interesting. People
looked at the DK Metcalf signing and went, oh, sort
(08:06):
of like Tyreek Hill, Oh, he's gonna change everything in Miami.
Not outcomes. DK Metcalf gonna change everything. The Steelers have
become a more refined, less chaotic version of the Jets.
Offensive players go to Pittsburgh and New York and they shrink,
they exit and they shine. I mean, look at Sam Darnold, now,
(08:29):
look at George Pickens, now look at Kevin dottson that.
And yet John hus Smith with Miami's a pro bowler.
He's lost in Pittsburgh. So Aaron wants to play this week.
Aaron is gonna do it if he's healthy. But everybody's
pointing at Aaron. It's not Aaron. Here's Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
He's the type of guy and has the type of profile.
It doesn't require a lot of physical work and an
effort to be ready to play, and that's helpful. A
little later in the week, we'll take a look at
Aaron and again, as I mentioned, the variables are stabilizing
it and making sure that he's safe and he can
protect himself, brace himself as he falls, et cetera. Pain tolerance,
(09:15):
But that doesn't seem to be an issue with Aaron.
He wanted to go back in the game on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, so it did this again. DK Metcalf is just
a symptom of it. It is a much bigger underlying
issue offensively, last six seven years, bottom five offense. How's
that possible. They've drafted good players, they have good players. Well,
you start looking at Kevin Dotson and you'd start looking
at Metcalf shrinking and George Pickens exploding and John Husmith's shrinking.
(09:47):
They've had different coordinatorst it, different quarterbacks, they bring it
in all sorts of different and it's always the same.
And it's also a team that tends to get worse
post Thanksgiving. Yeah, there are varying arguments why. But if
you start looking at their schedule last year they fell
apart late. Start looking at them now, start looking at
(10:10):
that schedule. Ravens late at Cleveland, at Detroit, at Baltimore,
here comes Buffalo at Chicago. Is this weekend the beginning
of a harsh slide into the toilet? We'll see interesting story.
(10:32):
It is interesting by a very reputable journalist from Philadelphia,
very I mean he's up for the Heard Big Jay
Journalism Award. A journalist has come out J Mack and
he's saying, listen, I've been covering this Philadelphia Eagle team
for a long time, and you know this is you
(10:52):
and I are you up here? We're not boots on
the ground. And when you used to cover a local
team when you were a sports writer, or when I
was doing local TV and I could be in the
Blazer's locker room, at the Buccaneers locker room, it's a
big advantage. You hear stuff, you see stuff, and you've
got all sorts of sources and people that you know.
If people have you know, an as to grind. They
(11:14):
love athletes and coaches and you know executives love to
text you, well, there's a there's a journalist in Philadelphia saying, yeah,
this this Eagle's locker room. It's not all aj brown Re,
a hardened, re beautiful journalist.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
An ink stained wretch, is just voicing. You know, listen,
this is the climate we're in, though, Colin. Right now, honestly,
the only way to break through and get clicks and
go viral is to have the off the record stuff.
The in sendiary comments, well, hey, everything being peachy keen
with the Super Bowl champs.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That ain't clicking.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
That's not making the Herd, right, would you agree with me?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Well, I don't think this writer cares about making the herd.
I don't think that's his goal.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Mine Getting on TV shows, having people talk about him
on national radio TV, that's what That's what you get
when you get Hey, the locker room is a powder keg.
I mean they've won twenty seven of their last thirty
games or something like that.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Well, I'll just report on this respected journalist reporting around
the corner. I think he won some crong Kite awards.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But here's the thing. We never have enough time to
get to everything we want to get.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, you blubber li lame in me. Well you know
what it's called over promise. You should be good at
it because you've been over promising women for years.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if and I are arguing about
something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue
on our after show called over Promised. Well, if you
don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check
out over Promise and also uncensored, by the way, so
maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
A little harder.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
There you go over Promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So you're now entering the Noble Zone sponsored by Credible
dreat rates none of the bowl. I love good journalism.
I know because I am on for three hours a
day and I'm not in arenas in locker rooms. I
need sources, but I depend greatly on really smart journalists
(13:52):
and reporters, and we try to give them all credit.
I think it's very interesting. So Derek Gunn has been
covering the e for years and he started talking on
the seth Joinner. I guess it was show or podcast
about the staff getting frustrated in Philly with Jalen Hurts.
(14:13):
He said, I'm basically telling you there, there's people in
that organization that are frustrated with a quarterback situation right now,
and I want you to listen to a guy that
covers the Eagles and has for years, Derek Gunn.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
Those things that dissected on film during practice, those things
that talked about among the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinated
a head coach. It has been constantly discussed all season long.
Yet when they transition to a field on a football game,
he plays his game, not the game the coaches want
him to play. And you look at a lot of quarterbacks,
they're gonna sling it, They're gonna try to throw it
(14:45):
through it out of a needle. Sometimes you just have
to take that chance. That's not his game. That's why
he stands back there. A lot of times he's patting
the ball, patting the ball, and it throws the time
into the offense off. The rhythm is thrown off. I
don't think that this one they can They can't get
him out of it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
They can't get him out of it. Why do I
believe Derek Gunn? Why do I believe Derek Gun's not spitballing?
This is exactly what I told you after what I
heard this summer. I said it in July or August
that I was told that he wasn't Hurts, wasn't that
popular with coaches or the locker room. He's not a
go he's not a raw, raw let's go out and
get beers guy. He's very much his own man, his
(15:22):
own beat. I respect the hell out of him, high IQ,
high EQ, great leadership, tough as a cheap steak. The
kid is. I like him. I don't think he's great
from the pocket, but I heard from somebody very close.
It is an impenetrable source, one of my best and
he's like, you're not that popular. And it's not Russell
(15:43):
Wilson Seahawks bad. It's not that I'm not saying that,
but there is a sense by some of the people
that he's a little, a little cliched, a little too polished.
Here's some of the things he has said when he
goes to a podium in and around the area in Philadelphia.
Either win or you lose? Are you either win or
(16:04):
you learn. That's how I feel.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Either win or you learn.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
One of these nice championships are better.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
And you go through the course of these things and
you learn that successes.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And built out of approval. It's built off of endurance.
He's built out of strength. I know I didn't walk
through that walk through that fire just to smell of smoke.
So don't finish it off that there. Thanks, you know, Listen,
you could say it's just being philosophical. Well, never forget
Socrates was not popular in his locker room either. People
(16:34):
don't want Socrates or Aristotle. They want a guy Brady's
pounding beers in the off season with a slot receiver
from Lehigh, you know, I mean Mahomes, Peyton Manning. They're
one of the guys. Jalen's not really, I've been told
one of the guys. But I'll defend him because he wins.
He's tough. Philadelphia is a loud, loud city. Talk radio
(16:56):
is huge. Columnists are aggressive. I mean, they've got their
secure guard, Sirianni. He's animated. It's not an easy town
to win. It's as tough a job. I mean, Bill
Parcells told Andy Reid when he took that job it
is the toughest place to coach in the league. So
I think his personality works in Philadelphia. I think Jalen,
Dak Prescott, a Jalen, a Justin Herbert, those kind of
(17:19):
guys would work in Philadelphia because they kind of diffuse
heat and noise. But he is I was told this summer,
you know, he's not that popular. I'm not saying quarterbacks
have to be, but it really does help if you're
a unifier. So and the other thing is he's going
to average. He's on track to have under two hundred
yards passing per game this year in an offensive league
(17:40):
with a great O line, with an offensive head coach,
and two great receivers. So again, he's winning. That cures everything,
and he's winning big. But Philadelphia got rid of Carson Wins,
you know, I mean Philadelphia, and he was going to
be an MVP that year. So Philadelphia does things that
bad teams do. They just do it well. They make
a lot of moves with coaches, they make a lot
(18:02):
of moves with players. And all I'm saying is there
is his story. Today. Derek Gunn, longtime Eagle reporter, is
saying essentially what I was told this summer. He had
more information than I did, but I was told that
Hurts isn't one of the guys. He's a little slick,
probably more mature than the average young professional athlete. But
(18:24):
it's I don't think it's a fire, I don't think
it's noise. But it's actual journalism, it's actual a story. Remember,
local reporters would rather not get pushed back in hate mail.
Most local reporters don't have the courage to print really
unpleasant news. Much easier for me to do it. I
don't live in Philly, so I mean, Derek Gunn doesn't
(18:44):
wake up thinking, hey, I got bad news for you,
because then Derek has to go back into that locker
room and Derek's got to go interview that coach. So
when I was in local markets, I remember being outspoken
and sometimes viewed as negative, and I was just like, oh,
it's my job. I don't care about it. I'll go
face the heat malaccer room, but I'm not gonna lie.
(19:05):
So I appreciate anytime a local reporter can deliver really
unpleasant news. I think it's hard, much harder than it
is for me here sitting, you know, thousands of miles away.
J Mack with the news. No, no, turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
This is the herd Line news.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
We got an animated cow herd today, and I get spicy.
Let's get started with Caleb Williams and your Chicago Bears, Colin.
They are the most unlikely division leader at this point
in the season. Remember negative six point differential. Here's Caleb
Williams talking about the team's mindset going into the final
stretch of the.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Season, and this is speaking on quarterback terms. You know,
I don't know if you can go twenty five for
twenty five, but I do know that you can go
one for one, you know, each and every single time,
twenty five times. And so just focusing on where we're
at and focusing on being one in one and that's
that's me say on but that's want to know this week,
(20:04):
and you know we focus on that, we go want
to know each week.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
You know, we'll be a sack where you want to be, boy,
living in the moment. I like that.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Everybody's sounding like Russell Wilson these days.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Huh. You can't look at all.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
The one one at a time, one one brick at
a time, right, Huh? Interesting, Colin, You're you're really loving
these Bears team. Let's just I don't know if you
can call the schedule up, but they better beat Pittsburgh
this weekend.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
And if they do, they're eight and three now coming
on that.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That ain't that does not lock up anything because they're losing.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
A Philly I'm not saying lock up, but if a
team is eight and three in the National Football League,
that's a good team.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Oh heck, yeah, that's a major improvement. Ben Johnson's a win.
But again the schedule, they're losing a Philly, probably losing
at green Bay, probably losing a green Bay again San
fran Detroit. I mean, if they finished nine and eight
and missed the playoffs, it's still a successful season.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
No, not if they beat Pittsburgh this weekend to go
eight and three. If they be Pittsburgh this weekend, I
think they will. They're a double digit win team.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Okay, fine, give me the other Okay, with the Pittsburgh win,
give me the other two wins. Browns is one at home.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
We'll give you the Browns, Browns at home and green
Bay at home. Okay, I'm sorry. I've watched green Bay
lose to Carolina at home at Lambeau and Cleveland. I'm
not blown away by green Bay.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Fairly certain green Bay's won like fifteen of sixteen from
the Bears. I've got to double check my math on
that one. But don't just temper expectations. The playoffs are
not a locked. All right, Let's go to a team
in dire straits Colin the Kansas City Chiefs. Boy, people
at this network are really nervous because you know what
if they lose to the colch this weekend. It's starting
(21:41):
to feel like no playoffs this year, you know, like
I called. Anyways, here's Patrick Mahomes talking about the Chiefs offense,
which stinks out loud right now.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
I'm just not making the throws is pretty much the
biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Guys are getting open and give me chances to make
the plays down the field.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Ask I give them chances to make plays.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
What happened to Xavier Worthy and Sherry Rice. I'm sorry,
Rashi Rice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Why here's my thing? Three days ago I said part
of the reason they're losing is Mahomes. Everybody's like, whoa
Patrick Mahomes comes out and says one of the reasons
we're losing is me. There's no question about it is.
Right now, on the road, he has been a c quarterback.
He has not played well on the road. He's been
pretty good at home, and that's okay. It's easier to
(22:31):
play at home than it is on the road. I'm
not saying Patrick's alone on that. But Patrick, the last
two years, when you get him away from Arrowhead and
this year is specifically, he's not a very good quarterback.
He's really been average. Josh Allen is superman. Regardless where
you put him. Patrick has struggled away from Arrowhead this year.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So last year they basically luck boxed their way in
all these one score games to eleven or zero. A
couple of those go the other way and it's like, oh,
maybe the Chiefs aren't amazing. So now it's all falling
apart and Colin tackle issue is real, Okay. Juwan Taylor
grades out as the sixty ninth of seventy six tackles.
He has the most penalties of any right tackle in
the league.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And Josh Simmons, Yeah, that's their number one issue in
the draft, is getting a right tackle. Then they might
need a left two. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
I mean, Josh Simmons kind of vanished for a little while,
had a personal issue. He came back, he was not outstanding.
I'm just you know, the Colts, I don't know if
they can get after the quarterback enough. But I'll just
say this, between their defensive coordinator and their offensive mind,
they had an entire off week to prepare for this game.
I just need Chiefs fans to be ready. There's a
world where the Colts come in there and then there's win.
(23:37):
Just outright, twenty four to twenty twenty one to twenty.
I would not be surprised if Indy won this game.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
This is a stay away game for me. It's a
stay away game. I think Indy Offha Bye is good.
What's interesting to me about this game is I think
we're gonna get a bit of a shootout because the
Colts with that on line in that run game off
of Bye are going to score. And I think Kansas
City against that Colts back and I'm interested to see
Sauce Gardner now has been in the system for a
few weeks. I'm interested to see what Sauce does with
(24:05):
the Colts. This game is a really interesting game.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
So a lot of zone from the Colts, which could
make Sauce very dangerous. Long arms, good instincts. Just be careful,
Chiefs fans. Final story is not great from the New
York Giants. I'm Dual Carter. This kind of flew under
the radar. Colin He was benched early against the Packers
and report surfaced that he basically was in a recovery
(24:30):
session instead of being in a team meeting. There was
another report that he was asleep and missed a walkthrough.
Ab Dual Carter finally talked about it, the number one
pick out of Penn State. I feel like it's not
how you start, it's how you finish. So I'm gonna
finish strong. This is on the heels of Dan Campbell,
the Lions coach, saying he's sensing a fresh energy from
(24:51):
Giants interim coach Mike Kafka. Obviously Lions are big favorites Colin.
I do want to add one of the reports that
Brian Dable this was happening with ub Dual Carter earlier
this year, and Dabel was just like, okay, fine, get better.
But he didn't bench you, Davie trying to keep his job.
So Kafka comes in, I'm ruling with an iron fist.
You're not doing this on my watch.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, the knock on Kafka was that he was pro player,
doesn't have a ton of presents, So maybe this is
Kafka showing people upstairs. This is Mike Kafka saying, hey,
if I'm named coach, none of this nonsense is gonna work.
So I do think when you're an interim coach, let's
(25:34):
be honest, you're the substitute teacher trying to impress the
principle you want to make sure the student's still the principal.
In the lunch room. Man, we were like, mister Brady's
really really good. This is Mike Kafka knowing hearing his
weakness is He's not really a burst through the door
(25:56):
hold player Accountable doesn't have a Brable shot on Peyton presence,
and maybe he's trying to show a little of that
to the guys upstairs, the owner and Joe Shane.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And at the same time, I'm gonna give Dabel a
pass for not benching him because Dabell's fighting for his
job and we all have done crazy stuff to fight
for our job, like Dabel wants to stay in point.
I'm just gonna go on record, I think Brian Dable's
gonna be a head coach in the NFL next season.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So do I.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Then?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
By the way, I think Robert Sala for the Niners
is I think I think Sala and da Ball are
both getting another shot. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Or Dabel could go to college if he wants, there
are colleges interested in him.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
By the way, J mckle the news, Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by the herd Line News. I
don't get this take at all Pat forty. I know
Pat is a sportswriter covers college football. The headline of
the story is Lane Kiffin's coaching circus is sabotaging Old
Missus great college football playoff dream Lane Kiffer and is
(27:00):
under contract at ole Miss until twenty thirty one. He
has no obligation to publicly sign an extension on All
Missus terms. Well, Kurt Signetti, Kurt Signetti doesn't have Lane
Kiffin's leverage. Kurt Signetti is not being recruited by NFL teams.
(27:26):
Lane Kiffin is. Lane Kiffin can go pro or college.
Matt rule came out. Matt Ruhle doesn't have Lane Kiffin's leverage.
Do you know how rarely college football coaches have leverage?
Almost never? So if Lane's got a little leverage and
he's under contract until twenty thirty one, he's the reason
(27:49):
Ole Miss you're on. He's the reason All miss is
relevant today. He doesn't have to on all Missus terms
when he's under contract for five more years, come out
on your terms. Absolutely not. He's got no obligation to
do that. And coaches never have leverage. I mean, you
(28:09):
know why he has leverage because Florida fired their coach,
Billy Napier in season, and LSU fired their coach in season.
Lane didn't do that. Lane didn't create it. So Lane,
because LSU and Florida fired their coaches, Lane has to
change how he views contract extension talk what that's ridiculous.
(28:35):
Blame Florida at LSU, But Lane Kiffin, there's no obligation.
And by the way, you know who's going to ruin
Old Missus playoffs, Ohio State or Georgia. They'll do it
for him because they're not beating either of those teams.
So you know, this is so strange to me. This
is the idea that he's sabotaging this season. Let me
(28:56):
just tell you this. In any profession, if you have
five years left on a contract, you're under no obligation
to announce publicly. Hey I'm staying forever. I mean, I
don't I understand why Old miss is doing it because
they've very rarely been this successful and they're terrified. But
Lane Kiffin's job is to coach football and win games,
(29:20):
not to appeal or appease or play CAI administrators. You
got him under contract for five years. That here was
Joel Klatt yesterday and Lane's future and he thinks he's leaving.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
If he wanted to stay, he would stay and we
would have already known it. Look at all the other
coaches around the country that have said their staying or
signed extensions. And Ole Miss, I know, has told him
money is not a factor here. Whatever you get offered,
we will match it. So it's not that he's gonna
make more somewhere else, which is starting to lead me
to believe. And again I will fully own I have
(29:55):
been all over the map on this and Lane, but
Lane is a unique cat. Now I don't know if
he can come back to old Miss. You can't lead
him on for this long. And then now there's going
to start to be animus, like why aren't you signing
an extension? What's the problem? And I think he's going
to Florida.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Now he may go to Florida. I think Florida is
a better job than LSU. But I'll say this again.
So Joel's first comments were, well, the other guys are
doing it. When the Mariner signed Robinson Canoe to a
ten year deal, did everybody else have to sign their
all star infield er to a ten year deal? When
the Cleveland Browns guaranteed all that money for Deshaun Watson,
(30:36):
why do I have to as a GM say well,
I'm going to guarantee my money to a quarterback. Since
when do the Cleveland Browns dictate terms? Since when does
old Miss administrators dictate terms? You're lucky to have him,
and yeah, he's gonna get offer after offer after offer
and after offer. If Florida and LSU don't fire their coaches,
would you know, we wouldn't be in this situation. So
(30:58):
I'm not gonna let somebody else dick tate my terms. Okay,
I'm coaching. I'm winning every day, I'm delivering. That's all
I care about, and that's all Miss should care about.
Shadur Sanders starting this weekend. I'm so fascinated by this,
not because of Shadure, because of his delusional fan boys,
(31:20):
and we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Play the Fox Super Six NFL Challenge. Download the Fox
Sports app right now and enter for a free shot
to win your share of ten thousand dollars in cash prizes.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Greg Cosel best fifteen minutes every week is joining us.
Phil sim stops by two. So Shadeur Sanders is going
to start against the Raiders. I like Cleveland to win.
There's something called the Strissand effect. It's when somebody tries
(32:02):
to hide news and it ends up making it a
bigger story. That's that's what the Cleveland Brown conspiracy theorists
believe is happening. That Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Berry are
trying to barry Shader Sanders, and therefore these conspiracy theorists think, no,
(32:23):
you're not. We're gonna make it a bigger story. Dear
Chaduer Truthers, ask yourself, what does Cleveland or the NFL
have to benefit by sabotaging Shador Sanders. Number One, Young
fans like him. Week one of the season, he had
a top five jersey. He had good ratings in college.
(32:45):
He's kind of interesting. I'm interested. Very few mediocre quarterbacks
or bad quarterbacks I care about. He's won, He's got
some charisma. His dad was a superstar the NFL. The
NFL has made and they did this years ago when
Jerry Jones complained about Tony Romo getting hit so hard
that They've really wrapped their quarterbacks in like, you know,
(33:10):
like saran wrap, to protect them. You can't hit the quarterback,
you can't drive them into the ground. They don't like
quarterback injuries. They want thirty two interesting teams. And right
now we've got ten teams. I won't count Miami because
I still think offensively they're interesting. But now that Penix
is out, Atlanta's one of them. We have ten unwatchable teams.
We have ten unwatchable teams. Like the bottom of the NBA.
(33:31):
The quarterbacks is so valuable now. If you don't have
the right quarterback, you're unwatchable. And so they want I mean,
the newspaper industry may be dying, but not the Herd Herald.
Here are the two headlines the NFL wants Monday morning.
They would Cleveland would love this in the NFL. Would
Shadure looks prime time? Sanders throws three touchdowns against the Raiders.
(33:56):
And if that one's not good enough, how about this
one shoudure enough? Sanders right fit for Cleveland. Okay, The
funny thing about this conspiracy theory, it's got four stages.
There's been four different conspiracies. The first one was he
dropped to the fifth round. The league is against him. Yeah,
(34:19):
I'm not gonna buy into that one. The second one was, well,
he's on the scout team. He's behind Dylan Gabriel. Okay.
The third one was, oh, so, now the Cleveland cops
are in on it. They gave him two speeding tickets,
so now you have the NFL, Kevin Stefanski and law
enforcement are all in on it. And then the fourth
(34:42):
one was, I mean, how can you play him? He
didn't get any reps with the first team. Josh Dobbs
won a game without a practice in Minnesota. Okay, stop,
You've got cops in on it, the league in on it,
the fans ski in on it, the GM in on it.
Here's the truth, and conspiracy theories begin when you just
(35:04):
don't like the truth. The truth is he's immature, that's indisputable,
and he's not that good. I'm rooting for him because
I don't root against young people. Even Baker Mayfield when
I used to whack him for Johnny Manziel, I always
wanted him to win. I want him to be good.
You watch the one o'clock window. You ever watch the
(35:25):
one o'clock window on Red zone. It gets ugly fast.
They don't put the good quarterbacks in the one o'clock window.
Josh Allen's playing later, Lamar Mau Holmes. They're not at
the one o'clock window very often, right, so Caleb increasingly
they want to get him out of the one o'clock window.
So here is Shaduur on his start against the Raiders.
Speaker 9 (35:46):
I know our fans have a lot of expectations in Hope,
and I would be doing a disservice to myself, in
disservice to the organization if I didn't feel like I
am the guy with the circumstances. Everything up and that's great,
you know. I like pressure in life. I'm just excited
for everything.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
This is a bizarrely fascinating game that the NFL can
put up the Browns and the Raiders, and I want
to watch it. My guess is he looks very good
on some plays. I always thought he was more mobile
than all the all the NFL draft Guruz gave him
credit for. We saw him spin move this past weekend.
(36:28):
I think he's a little bit more mobile than people think.
I also think he throws a pretty ball. I thought
he had to throw it to the ends on this weekend.
That should have been a touchdown and he would have
capped off the comeback. So and I also think he's
gonna throw some really bad picks because he tends to
hold on to the ball too long. And I also
think he runs backwards, which he did in college. So
I think it's gonna be a totally mixed bag. I
do think he's got the best defense in this game,
(36:50):
and that gives him a real chance to win. Probably
why I would take him. I like his coach better
and I like his defense better. So I think Cleveland's
gonna win with him. But he's going to run backwards
on more than one occasion. It drives Stefanski crazy. And
he's also going to throw a really bad pick. I mean,
just but that's the reality of young quarterbacks. But I
(37:12):
do think he's more talented than the fifth round I
always did. But you can't deny he's been immature. The
speeding tickets, you know, legendary tanking, pre draft interviews. You know,
you gotta be you gotta do better than that. I
have a lot on this topic. I just want to
(37:34):
share this. Diana Russini on her podcast dropped this, so
we all know. JJ McCarthy is struggling. He's got the
lowest passer rating in the NFL for a starting quarterback,
like by a lot. He's last in completion percentage TDD,
interception ratio passer rating among thirty three qualified quarterbacks. No
reason to bury the kid. But he's not great at all.
(37:55):
But she said, there's an interesting line here. But more
than that, it's the vibes around him all season have
been weird. From how he was really doing in camp.
It was like they were hiding or suppressing information to
the fact that Carson Wentz we discovered was actually trying
to play through a torn labrum before finally going on
(38:15):
IR and then suddenly JJ McCarthy was healthy enough to
play once again, it does feel weird. And now I've
said play him until the end of the season. There's
no reason to not play. But this does, This does
Diana Russini's opinion here does validate and double down on
(38:38):
a truth. If he was a cornerback, a wide receiver,
a week side linebacker, or a safety, I wouldn't care
as much about his slow start. I would be willing
to be more patient. But the reason I'm so brutal
on Johnny Manziel or Baker Mayfield or Cam Newton or
a JJ McCarthy is. Quarterback is the position that everybody
(39:01):
relies on, including the coach, to eat in the NBA.
Over my lifetime, it's become almost almost positionless. I mean,
what is lebron whatever? They need that night shooter distributor
three four. But even parents with their children will name
(39:22):
a specific child to be executor of the will. They
feel he or she's better with money, assets, and responsibility.
Even a parent has a hierarchy in the will for
their own kids. And that's the reality of pro football
(39:43):
college two but more pro football quarterbacks have to be
more mature, faster, and the weird thing doesn't play. And
for the record, Caleb Williams, bo Nicks Drake may are
durable and nobody wants to hear this, and it sounds unfair,
(40:04):
but JJ McCarthy could have twenty seven starts already and
he's got five. So one of the reasons people worried
about Panix, uh oh, he's hurt again. And Jaden Daniels
the number one concern was durability. He's hurt again. So
some of this is if JJ was coming in light
in the world on fire, you could stomach the durability issues,
(40:27):
but it's the weird stuff the durability. He's struggling, and
it's unfair. But quarterbacks different maturity matters, Starting quickly matters,
durability matters. It just all matters, more.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I don't mind if I got a little flaky outside linebacker,
corner got a little ego. Can't have a quarterback like that.
Just care. It's unfair, but it's true. Greg co sellneck
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Colin Cowherd
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