December 18, 2025 • 31 mins
NFL and College football analyst Todd McShay joins The Herd to talk about what the Giants should do with the number 1 pick, what to expect from the Broncos in the playoffs, the Seahawks going after Sam Darnold, the top prospects headed to the NFL draft, and more
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
He's one of the few people that covers the NFL
in college equally well Todd mcshabe and covering the NFL
Draft since the late nineties the Todd McShay podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
He's the host for.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
The Ringer and he's joining us live from an undisclosed location,
but a cool place nonetheless, and I know it is.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And I'm not telling anybody.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I appreciate that I threw out this balloon earlier. I
said it would take some courage. But if the Giants
end up with a number one pick, Jackson dartist better
than I thought he would be. I thought he was
a second round quarterback, but not bad. But Lane Kiffin
Charlie Weiss helped. He's I think he's grown very quickly.
I can live with some of the blue tent stuff.
He's young, learning the game, but Mendoza feels like a
(01:06):
much higher grade, bigger guy.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
If you ran the.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
New York Giants and Mendoza is there, knowing Todd, and
I'll throw this out, Todd, knowing that the NIL is
keeping a lot of these college quarterbacks out of the
pros for a year, would you take Mendoza or stay
with Jackson Dart.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I would stay with Jackson Dart. Here's what I would do,
perfect world. Right, You've got the Raiders. If the draft
were today, You've got the Raiders sitting at two. Think
you've got Cleveland at four, the Jets at five, and
the Rams at ten, all teams that are in the
quarterback market, probably the Rams least of but they've got
a second first round pick in twenty twenty six last year.
(01:48):
By making that move in preparation of finding this successor
to Matthew Stafford, maybe we're not there yet, right, so
I could see them moving around to try to get
another pick in twenty twenty seven. That twenty twenty seven draft,
with arch Manning Julian saying, we'll see about Dante Moore
from Oregon, We'll see about Ty Simpson from Alabama.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
After the playoff for both of those guys.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And you add a host of Leonora's sellers going back
to school at South Carolina, there's a bunch of quarterbacks
next year. It could be one of the deepest best
drafts of the quarterback position and wide receiver since I've
been doing this, okay, And so without all of that
in mind, you're sitting at one, and maybe it's just
Mendoza in the first round, or maybe it's Mendoza and
(02:32):
Dante Moore or Mendoza and Ty Simpson.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
The demand is always higher.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
At the quarterback position than the supply, but it certainly
will be this year. So what I would do if
I were the Giants and it played out where we
wind up having the first overall pick, I'm getting a
ransom for it because the teams I mentioned, not the
Raiders that are sitting at too, but the teams that
want to get ahead of them, the Browns two first
round picks, the Jets two first round picks, and compensation
(02:59):
next year. So you're going to wind up with compensation
that you normally wouldn't get, probably and try to utilize
that to get an additional pick next year, where hopefully
you're just looking for a wide receiver and another position player.
But if you need to after a second season with
Jackson Dart and if the injuries start to add up
and there's concern about it, then you can pull the
(03:21):
trigger on that. But I saw too much out of
Jackson Dart. I'm a bigger fan than I was a
bigger fan coming out of school of Jackson Dart than
you were, so I kind of was expecting to see
some of the positives. But they're clearly, like the book
isn't closed that he's definitively the guy for the next decade.
So that would be my plan of attack if you
were faced with that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know, I've said this year, Caleb's got a better
arm than bow Knicks. Bo Nicks is more accurate twelve
yards and under the swing passes the bubble screen. That
Bow's really good on that stuff. I said, Man, he
can't love one and not the other. They both have
brilliant offensive coaches, good old lines. They are better in
the fourth than in the first quarter, which is for
young quarterbacks. They're uneven, super athletic.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Both are.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I mean, bon Knicks is really athletic. We know Caleb is.
They're dynamic, they're coachable, both Peyton and Benner. They're demanding coaches,
were you high on bon Knicks because I think a
lot of people expected Caleb to be dynamic and everybody
now with bo Nix is saying, well, he's got Sean pateon, Well,
Caleb's got Ben Johnson.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Where were you on bo Nix?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And where are you on him?
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Now?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I thought he was an early second round pick, and
I got news for you.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Most of the league did too.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Yeah, it was one of it was it was one
of the most onions filled decisions I've seen in a
long time. Let's put it that way, right, Sean Payton
went against the grain and everyone else in the draft,
and he did it with a wide receiver this year.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
He did it with his running back r J. Harvey
this year. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
He just he sees in players exactly what he needs
in his system. Bo Nix and Denver wouldn't be bo
Nicks the same guy as bo Nicks would be. Let's say,
what if he was drafted by the Jets, or if
he was drafted by some of these other organizations like
the BROWNSS, the organizations that seemingly every year or at
the top end, we're talking about how they have a
quarterback need. Again, bo Nicks just fits perfectly with what
(05:15):
Sean's looking for, and it hasn't all been beautiful and
these inconsistencies. And do I trust him in the playoffs? No,
I don't, and I'm okay saying that. But he's getting
better and you're starting to see progression in the offense.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I'll push back a little bit on.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I see the similarities with Ian Caleb, but I will
say Caleb's just more talented Caleb. They're both good athletes,
Caleb's but better athlete. They're both you know, yes, Bo
is better inside twelve yards with accuracy, but Caleb can
make throws that Bo can't make, and Bo can make
a lot of throws.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So that to me is the difference.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It was coming out and it remains the same now,
but each in each system. I'm trusting Caleb Moore, but
I probably trust Bo Nicks a little bit more and
Sean pay system because this.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Was a hand picked deal and Sean Payton got this right.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I love Sam Donald. He'll be playing tonight from the
very beginning, and then.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I'm me too, man, we were It's so good to
see his success, isn't it like.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A breath of fresh air.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And I know the last year didn't end well and
this year you're worried that the same thing could pop up.
But man, did I have a high grade on Sam
Donald coming out.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You know. One of the things I liked about him
is he came from a super athletic family, but they
were very like grounded people. There was no bougie They're
just neat people. When John Snyder said, Okay, I'm gonna
go for it. It's a team friendly deal, I'm gonna
go for it, and maybe I'll rephrase it. I knew
(06:46):
that Shanahan liked him. I knew that Kevin O'Connell liked him,
and I knew John Snyder liked him. Those are really
smart guys. That's why I never gave up on Donald.
I'm like all the people I trust in the league
keep telling me he just needs He was the youngest
guy draft of the year he came out. He was
like twenty one years old. When Schneider went and got
(07:07):
him this year for the Seahawks. Was there trepidation? What
were your sources sake? Or did a lot of people think, oh,
John stole him.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I raced to my editor to get it.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I couldn't write something down fast enough so it would
be out there.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Schneider.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
It's almost like he did it a certain way for
a long time, and he did it with Pete and
then kind of was feeling his way through this the
new coaching regime and the Seahawks. But when I look
at what he did this offseason, I was like, uh oh, here,
watch out. Schneider's going back to his roots. He's getting
(07:45):
a younger, more talented version at quarterback, and he's getting
ammunition to go win in the draft.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
He's a scout at heart man Like I've known John
since since I started in this business Jim Naggy, I
started with work back in New York City at nineteen
ninety nine, and they work together in Green Bay, and
so I got to know John and at his core,
he is a talent evaluator and a team builder and
he believed so much in the foundation from the draft right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So this allowed them to get younger at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
The moves they made in the offseason with DK and
getting rid of Gino allowed them to free up some
cap space, get some more ammunition in terms of the
draft and you're seeing it payoff. I thought maybe it
would take a year, but we're seeing it right away.
And so this is a Seattle team that is scary
when I mean they have been clicking most of the season.
(08:39):
I just want to see Sam put it all together
at the end of the season so we can.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Finally shut everybody up.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Colin, who is telling us I told you so Sam
can't do it in the league when he was twenty
one and playing for the Jets.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I mean, who could do that? The answer has been nobody.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Todd's got his top ten prospects in the draft. I
think I think it's very good at the top of
the draft this year. I didn't think last year was
good at the top of the draft at all. I
think this year is really really good. I mean a
lot of Ohio State guys. I like that you have
Makay Lemon. This is not necessarily a prediction on where
guys are going to go. There you go for our
(09:16):
audience receiver. There's some good receivers, man, there are in Utah.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I didn't think there were gonna be good receivers coming
into this year.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
All three of those guys have been lights out. It's
been awesome to watch.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oregon is maybe the least discussed good team in college football.
Should Dante come out, people say he didn't have enough starts.
What is the film say on Dante Moore? Because I've
heard he's a great kid, great personality, team guy. What
is the film say on Dante Moore? Because you have him? Fifth,
he's the best pure passer in college football.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I believe that like smooth stroke, he throws the most
catchable ball of all these quarterbacks. Instincts, anticipation. He It's
interesting because he he is mobile. He he's not fast,
he doesn't love to run, but he's comfortable extending and
getting outside the pocket and creating.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I love him. I think he's going to be a
great pro.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
If he were solely listening to my advice, I would
say go back to school for another year. Man, because
I have evidence from twenty five years that I've gathered
that the number of starts that he has, which is
what seventeen, I think at this point it'll be eighteen, nineteen,
twenty somewhere in that range. The chances of him succeeding
(10:30):
with another twelve thirteen fourteen starts next year are significantly higher.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Twenty five years of.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Data telling me that, and why well, maybe he goes
back and without will Stein, his offensive coordinator who took
the head coaching job and is leaving after the college
football playoffs at Toyota, Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Maybe maybe they stumble a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Maybe he has some bad moments that he didn't necessarily
have this year, and that can be a good thing
for a quarterbacks development.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
If you look at all the tome, like the top fifteen.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Quarterbacks in the league, all of them are in that
thirty three to you know, sixty plus start range in
college and only a couple of them are in the
twenties and they're still around twenty six starts. I just
don't like when you only have you know, seventeen, eighteen,
nineteen starts under your belt going in the NFL. And
by the way, he's twenty years old. Colin so I
(11:21):
I like if he leaves for this year's draft class,
because it's only Mendoza right now.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
According to what everyone's saying that he's coming out early.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
He'll be a top ten pick and it could very
easily be you know, number four to Cleveland, number five
to the Jets.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
But you want another twenty year we just talked about
Sam Darnold.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
I don't care how talented, and by the way everyone
I talked to, he's mature as he is talented, and as.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Good a young man as he is talented.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Okay, but so is Sam right, and I just I
don't like that path for him, So I'd love to
see him back in college football next year, even though
it makes for a less exciting NFL draft.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
In the next few months, be sure to catch live
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Speaker 3 (12:03):
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Speaker 6 (12:06):
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Speaker 2 (12:16):
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Speaker 1 (12:33):
Finally, Bama, Oklahoma, I've gone back and forth. Oklahoma's at home,
Oklahoma's pass rush, Bama can't run the football. You watch
a you watch as much college football as anybody. I know,
they've beaten him twice. I think Kaylen Debor is such
a gifted coach. I think Ty Simpson needs another year
of college. Doesn't blow me away that matchup? Who do
(12:54):
you like and why.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I love Ty Simpson and what he can be and
when he's at his best. I think defensive defenses have
figured out, hey, Alabama can't run the football successfully at all.
And I like, I'm here for Venables versus Debor, and
I'm here for I'm here for even Mattier with the
thumb and struggling versus Simpson. And I'm especially here for
(13:18):
Brenton Venables and that defense going up against Ty Simpson
and that passing game. What I don't understand is what
is there something going on? It feels like an undercurrent.
And I said this about LSU with Brian Kelly before
it all happened, and I'm saying it here again with Alabama.
And I'm not saying it's going to blow up and
it's all over and Debor's going to Michigan or.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Anything like that.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I'm just saying I've got people in Tuscaloose that I
talk to when I trust and it just feels like
something's not right. But I also know football players compartmentalize
better than most. And I do know that Ty Simpson
coaches son been around ball his whole life.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
He'll be ready to go. At first.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
I I was absolutely Oklahoma home game. I know that
they had twice as many yards the first meeting Alabama did.
They had twice as many first first downs or like
ten more minutes of time of possession. They owned that
game and still lost. The closer we get as I
look at Oklahoma, the more I think that Alabama and
(14:22):
what we saw in the SEC Championship game was kind
of a byproduct of we don't have fourteen guys that
wound up sitting out. We're getting most of those guys back.
I think this is going to be the best game
of the weekend. I think Miami, Texas A and m
is going to be really good gotten tohead. I'm going
Oklahoma still, But I just I look it to Boor
in his history, with a little bit of time to
prepare and in big games like this, he's so damn good.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Colin, Yeah, he went to Athens and literally had a
perfect first half of execution. So they can't run the
ball with a link, but they got three big time receivers. Todd,
you're great at the ringer covering this stuff forever at
McShay team. Is the Twitter handle ex handle. Whoever owns
it calls it whatever they want. Todd, it's great seeing you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Good to see you, tube brother. I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, guy does this stuff really well, knows it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
His top ten prospects eight, nine and ten or wide
receivers Tate, Lemon and Tyson.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
There's a lot of Ohio State dudes.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
It is interesting about the number of starts you get
in college, Like there's just data that proves you got
to get over like twenty seven three. It's like bo
Nicks may have a high ceiling. But he was ready
to go by October mid October year one. He was
ready to go. I'll say this for Jackson Dart. He
had Lane Kiffen for three years, lane coach in the NFL.
Lane's in the lead offensive guy, top ten offensive guy
(15:43):
maybe in football, college or pro.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Jackson Dart was ready to play very early. It matters.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
Did you say he had how many receivers in the
top ten.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Well he has three. He has Tate, Lemon.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And Wild.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
So if you look around the current playoff teams right now,
look at the elite teams, there's not a lot of
guys drafted in the top ten at receiver. You can
find value later in the first round. Justin Jefferson, I
don't think JSN was top ten like receiver is. I
don't know. Do you consider that a premium position.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Well, that's a great that's a great question. I never did.
Wide receiver to me was icing on the cake. I
want to draft guys in the first round that are
the cake, but because of rule changes, quarterbacks one left tackle,
two edge rusher, three, perimeter weapon. Four I think you
have to have a perimeter weapon. Five I think underrated
(16:38):
is center a great center, and then six maybe a corner.
But now I will say I said edge rusher. I
would prefer a great dtackle. There just aren't many of
those body types. But I do think I used to
put receiver like eighth. I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
Let me ask you, though, Colin, do you think it's
easier to find a stud receiverver or a stud tackle,
stud offensive lineman in the third, fourth, and fifth rounds.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Oh, no wide receiver easily.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
So that's why, Like I mean, and this is his
top ten prospects. So yes, those guys maybe eliite properly.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Let's but here's the other thing to think about. So
it depends on what you are. Like, like like, I
think Carnell Tate more than Lemon and Tyson is such
a unique NFL body. I mean, he looks like he
could be a you could put weight on him, he
could be an outside linebacker. I think Tate is so
unique physically, I have no problem first round. I thought
(17:34):
Igbuca last year was such a great route runner. I
was like, that's a first round wide receiver Tampa. Like,
there's guys. Marvin Harrison has not been as good as
I thought, but I do think he's a unique wide receiver.
He's just been a slower build, so I think I like,
I don't buy A couple of years ago, Baltimore took
a center and a safety and everybody's like, whoa, they're
(17:55):
both Pro bowlers, the kid from Iowa at center and
then Hamilton for Notre Dame.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Just go get elite players.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So if you have if you have MacKaye Lemon, nineteenth,
best player to twenty third in your picks available, just
go unless you unless you're like Cincinnati and have Jamar
and t Higgins, or you're the Rams and have two
stars and have other needs.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
But I just I think.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
In the first round mostly you take the best player available.
Speaker 7 (18:23):
Yeah, and the other thing on quarterbacks. So here are
the last three quarterbacks that went number one overall. Bryce
Young three years ago. Is he the best quarterback drafted
in his class? Yes? Or no?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
No?
Speaker 7 (18:34):
Caleb Williams what number one? Is he the best quarterback
drafted in his class?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yes, the most, he's the most talented.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Is he the best so far?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Not so far?
Speaker 7 (18:41):
And then cam Ward this past year? Is he the
best quarterback that you've seen this year? John? The rookies,
Jackson Dart's been better, Tyler Shuck has been pretty damn
good recently. I'm just saying, I don't want to say
what first is a kiss of death? But Mendoza go
into some crap franchise. I'm not going to name them
because the fans get all upset. It may not be
the best thing for him and Dante more sliding down
(19:02):
a little could be better. I mean, it's a the
NFL is weird, and we've hit on this. The worst
teams continually do the dumbest things at.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
The top of the draft they do.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
What's better than a Saturday?
Speaker 7 (19:22):
How about a Super Saturday with an NFL doubleheader. First,
it's the Eagles versus Commanders, then the Packers take on
the Bears for control of the NFC North. Pregame coverage
begins at four pm Eastern on Fox.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Without further ado. Jaymack with the news.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
All right, Let's go Dallas Cowboys. And mister George Pickens.
We haven't heard from him in a while, Colin, because
he's been ducking the media for the last two weeks. Essentially,
once he started stinking up the joint, he started avoiding
the media.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Kind of cow if you ask me.
Speaker 7 (20:00):
Pickens was finally available yesterday and decided to talk about
the criticism he's received.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
I'm kind of more focused on the Chargers, honestly, just
this following week, just knowing that they're ten or four
group knowing that played physicals, got a lot of good
defensive guys. Everybody has a job to do. Some people
job is to do that. It's like chear down character,
see how much clicks they can get. But I'm just
here to play football or help the team.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Honestly, mm hmmm, yeah, clicks. That's that's what it is. Clicks.
We're all that's about the clicks.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
Or there are no touchdowns in the last three games.
I don't know of these do but you look I
mean like I don't. I don't know him personally, but
when your history in Pittsburgh was dogging it at the
end of the season and then you start dogging it
on national televised Island games, Colin kind of says some
stuff about you, doesn't it? Or am I going overboard you?
Speaker 4 (20:49):
No?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I mean it's listen, it's it's not like the Cowboys
star quarterback got hurt. Dak's been there, the old lines,
the same ceedee Lamb's playing and uh, you know, offensive
coach and he's disappeared. So you don't go from eight
touchdowns to zero. I mean it's the body language isn't
good and he has a history got Yeah. Listen, are
(21:09):
a lot of people out of the draft, out of
Georgia that were like, be very careful. So anytime you
remind people of the one criticism doesn't matter if you're
a football player or not. You don't want to keep
reminding people of like this, this flaw that is widely recognized.
And he has been moody sometimes immature, and it looks
(21:30):
like he's pouting.
Speaker 7 (21:31):
So he's gonna get tagged or he's gonna become a
free agent and go somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I would certainly look.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
To a team with a rookie quarterback, but you have
to have a strong locker room, strong coach. Can I
interest you in Mike Rabel and New England strong coach,
tough locker room, not gonna put up with crap. Drake
May one of the best deep ball throwers in the league. No,
(21:58):
not really, Okay, you're off pickets, all right, final, Let's
go to the next story called aj Brown speaking of
diva receivers, He's had a lot of drama, had a
couple costly drops in that loss to the Chargers. Uh.
There's a report that indicates several anonymous executives believe the
Eagles will be parting ways with Brown at season's end.
(22:19):
I will float two to you because this is fun.
I'll start with the Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
They need a.
Speaker 7 (22:23):
Big downfield deep threat who's physical and when he pipes up,
you got a firm quarterback and coach who are willing
to shut him down quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Mahomes and Reid, They're.
Speaker 7 (22:32):
Not gonna put up with garbage from him. AJ Brown
in casey do you like it?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I do?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Actually, I I really do, because I think Worthy's a
gadget guy and I think he's a different body type.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
That one work.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And also, let's let's let's be fair here, is that
Rashi rise to this point?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Do I trust him? Not really?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So with with Kelsey leaving, that move in Kansas City.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Works for me.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
The other one I was thinking it was a Buffalo
Bills if they come up short in the playoffs this year,
they don't have a star receiver. And then some people
will say Jay Back, what about Vray Bowl where he
was previously within Tennessee, that the Patriots could use him
to pair with Drake By.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
That also works, oh, New England because of Brabile and
AJ Brown.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
That absolutely works to me. That's a fit.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
Yeah, and Dove tailing off what McVeigh said, there's a
lot of good receivers in this draft. If you can
move off an expensive one, get a cheap one in
the draft. That works for teams that have already paid
their quarterback. Final story, Colin Oh we haven't talked about
Schider Sanders and the Cleveland Browns hosting the Bills. Look
at that big big dogs this week ten and a
(23:41):
half at home. He did not have a great game
against the Bears. Heading into Sunday, He's got a tough
task against the Bills and Josh Allen. Here's Shdore talking
about this week's matchup.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
I just got to get more completions, you know, I
gotta get more completions than even whenever we're down or anything.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Care press.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
You know, I just gotta remain having those mental notes
to myself, just work within the game and just keep
just driving the ball your first downs.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I also think the Chicago Bears have a It was
a road game. Chicago's pretty stacked. He got behind, he
was pressing. You know, I'm not gonna hold it against him.
Rookies have really bad, really bad Sundays.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
It was a bad spot.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I mean the odds makers had the Bears over a
touchdown favorite.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
It went sideways fast, and.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I mean you got the secondary for Chicago. It's got
playmakers back there. So it's a it's a work in progress.
It's it's all we'll see. I you know, I don't
think he's a great franchise quarterback. The question is like
with JJ McCarthy, is he a franchise quarterback? JJ McCarthy.
Last three weeks, it's like, oh, okay, Schaduur looked interesting
(24:55):
first couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Now he's gone backwards. So it's just let him.
Speaker 7 (24:58):
Play some context. I will defend you Colin. He was
down three offensive linemen and then Djoku the tight end lost.
He was unfortunately, you know, with those three guys, maybe
out again this week, which is not ideal, you know
against Buffalo, which can get some pressure on the quarterback
with their front. And I don't know what to do
with Shador. You you think Dart franchise guy for sure.
(25:20):
I still think with Dart, Shadoor, Tyler Shuck, I like
some of what I've seen, they could go into next
season as starters. But I don't I'm not crowning any
of those guys in the class of Bo Nicks, Jaden Daniels,
Drake Bay, none of them are even close to it
might be all right.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I think Jackson Dart has for a rookie with a
pretty average offensive roster. I think Jackson Dart's been pretty good.
I think he's and he's tough, like he doesn't want
to go into the blue tent. You know, he's not
asking to go into the blue tent. It's just you
gotta go sometimes. J Mack with the news, Well.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
That's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd
Line news it is.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
You know, I was thinking about this last night about
you know, these seasons are really long, and you know
Week one coaches now treated like an extension of you know,
the preseason, and then at the end of the season
you're often resting people or like soft tanking when you're
going to you know, have a starting quarterback mount play.
I think J Max mentioned it earlier. There's like seven
(26:20):
rookie quarterbacks, six rookie quarterbacks playing this weekend. So you know,
if you look at the playoff picture, by all means,
I think the AFC, which has been pretty easy to predict,
for years. You know the AFC. We're not going to
have Mahomes, We're not going to have Burrow. We're not
sure if we're going to have Lamar Jackson. It's a
(26:41):
little surprising, but I will say Denver made it last year.
Not a shock again, Harbaugh Herbert not a shock. Josh Allen,
not a shock. I mean Houston's made it. Isn't this
the third time C J. Strouds made the playoffs Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh is surprising because I figured they'd be eight or
nine win team, whatever. But I didn't think they make
(27:03):
the playoffs. We're still not sure they are. Baltimore could
still get in. Colts were surprisingly viable, and Jacksonville I
never trust has been better.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
But then when you start.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Looking at it, like you say, well what about Rabel
Rabel Drake May showed glimpses last year. I mean, I
picked New England for second in the division. It can't
be that big of a surprise. I didn't think they'd
be eleven and three. I thought they were a ten
win team. But it may not be as surprising as
everybody thinks. J Max said Chiefs aren't making the playoffs.
If you watch the trends. Kansas City's offense has been
(27:36):
middle of the pack, often worse in the second half.
The NFC playoff picture, I think the NFC now has
become the AFC the previous four years, where you've got
these combinations of quarterback and coach like McVeigh and Stafford.
That's elite. Shanahan and Purty say what you want, Lafleur
(27:56):
and Jordan Love Baker and Bowls.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I picked Begger to make the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Philadelphia, I think, has been weird and uneven, but we're
not surprised.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So I feel like.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
The NFC is better than the AFC and has become
the AFC in previous years. It's a little easier to protect.
Chicago is better than I thought, no question, But I'm
and Detroit. For the record, Detroit, you and I both
said they'll be the step back team in the league.
Washington being awful is a shock. Carolina being five hundred
(28:30):
not really. We both thought they got the right coach,
Dan Morgan, good GM. So the NFL to me is
very hard to predict on a week to week basis.
And again, certainly New England is better than even I thought,
and I picked them as a playoff team. But are
you a shock that TUA got worse? The Jets are
a mess. The Titans aren't very good. I mean, if
(28:54):
I said to you biggest surprise in the league, and
again people will say New England.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
But I picked them as a playoff.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Team, they can't be that big of I would say
Chicago being ten and four through fourteen games.
Speaker 7 (29:07):
Chicago's right there. Seattle has to be right there. Nobody
had them at eleven and three. You like them, but
nobody had them here.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I have a wildcard team.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
But the big difference is if you name the four
best quarterbacks in the NFL for best, it's pretty easy.
We've been doing this for a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
But just name them.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Well, Josh Allen right now, Matt Stafford, Mahomes.
Speaker 7 (29:25):
Burrow, interesting, no, Lamar Jackson because historically the big four
have been all in the AFC. Well, Burrow got hurt,
Lamar was hurt, and Mahomes's team is not very good.
So then all of a sudden you look at the rosters,
and the rosters in the NFC are way better. Oh
way better quarterbacks are better in the AFC. It's very
(29:45):
strange like that. Packers roster at full strike next year.
I think the Packers go in as the Super Bowl favorites, right,
I mean, when you assume Michael Parsons is back, everybody's
gonna be healthy.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
They're loaded, Colin, they are.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
It is interesting when you watch tonight, we all mention
these great quarterbacks. If you go back to like week
eleven in Carolina, the winningest quarterback in the league is
a quarterbacking for the Seahawks.
Speaker 7 (30:12):
Tonight, your boy Sam Darnold, Big Island game. Hopefully he
doesn't throw four picks this time, or you'll just come
on tomorrow and say, you know, interceptions don't matter that
much because he's.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Trying to he throws three or more.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I will not say that they matter, but it's where
you throw up. Like bow Knicks has nine picks, but
when trailing, bow Knicks has sixteen touchdowns and one pick.
So whatever, it is a sense of urgency. You know,
the defense gets more worn down over the course of
a game. Bow Nicks throws his interceptions in less crucial times.
(30:51):
Caleb Williams doesn't throw them at all, really, except for
the Green Bay one. All right, Todd McShay appreciate him
stopping by Joel Klatt to day, good stuff. We'll see
you tomorrow. Blazing Fies
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
He's one of the few people that covers the NFL
in college equally well Todd mcshabe and covering the NFL
Draft since the late nineties the Todd McShay podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
He's the host for.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
The Ringer and he's joining us live from an undisclosed location,
but a cool place nonetheless, and I know it is.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And I'm not telling anybody.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I appreciate that I threw out this balloon earlier. I
said it would take some courage. But if the Giants
end up with a number one pick, Jackson dartist better
than I thought he would be. I thought he was
a second round quarterback, but not bad. But Lane Kiffin
Charlie Weiss helped. He's I think he's grown very quickly.
I can live with some of the blue tent stuff.
He's young, learning the game, but Mendoza feels like a
(01:06):
much higher grade, bigger guy.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
If you ran the.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
New York Giants and Mendoza is there, knowing Todd, and
I'll throw this out, Todd, knowing that the NIL is
keeping a lot of these college quarterbacks out of the
pros for a year, would you take Mendoza or stay
with Jackson Dart.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I would stay with Jackson Dart. Here's what I would do,
perfect world. Right, You've got the Raiders. If the draft
were today, You've got the Raiders sitting at two. Think
you've got Cleveland at four, the Jets at five, and
the Rams at ten, all teams that are in the
quarterback market, probably the Rams least of but they've got
a second first round pick in twenty twenty six last year.
(01:48):
By making that move in preparation of finding this successor
to Matthew Stafford, maybe we're not there yet, right, so
I could see them moving around to try to get
another pick in twenty twenty seven. That twenty twenty seven draft,
with arch Manning Julian saying, we'll see about Dante Moore
from Oregon, We'll see about Ty Simpson from Alabama.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
After the playoff for both of those guys.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And you add a host of Leonora's sellers going back
to school at South Carolina, there's a bunch of quarterbacks
next year. It could be one of the deepest best
drafts of the quarterback position and wide receiver since I've
been doing this, okay, And so without all of that
in mind, you're sitting at one, and maybe it's just
Mendoza in the first round, or maybe it's Mendoza and
(02:32):
Dante Moore or Mendoza and Ty Simpson.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
The demand is always higher.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
At the quarterback position than the supply, but it certainly
will be this year. So what I would do if
I were the Giants and it played out where we
wind up having the first overall pick, I'm getting a
ransom for it because the teams I mentioned, not the
Raiders that are sitting at too, but the teams that
want to get ahead of them, the Browns two first
round picks, the Jets two first round picks, and compensation
(02:59):
next year. So you're going to wind up with compensation
that you normally wouldn't get, probably and try to utilize
that to get an additional pick next year, where hopefully
you're just looking for a wide receiver and another position player.
But if you need to after a second season with
Jackson Dart and if the injuries start to add up
and there's concern about it, then you can pull the
(03:21):
trigger on that. But I saw too much out of
Jackson Dart. I'm a bigger fan than I was a
bigger fan coming out of school of Jackson Dart than
you were, so I kind of was expecting to see
some of the positives. But they're clearly, like the book
isn't closed that he's definitively the guy for the next decade.
So that would be my plan of attack if you
were faced with that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know, I've said this year, Caleb's got a better
arm than bow Knicks. Bo Nicks is more accurate twelve
yards and under the swing passes the bubble screen. That
Bow's really good on that stuff. I said, Man, he
can't love one and not the other. They both have
brilliant offensive coaches, good old lines. They are better in
the fourth than in the first quarter, which is for
young quarterbacks. They're uneven, super athletic.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Both are.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I mean, bon Knicks is really athletic. We know Caleb is.
They're dynamic, they're coachable, both Peyton and Benner. They're demanding coaches,
were you high on bon Knicks because I think a
lot of people expected Caleb to be dynamic and everybody
now with bo Nix is saying, well, he's got Sean pateon, Well,
Caleb's got Ben Johnson.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Where were you on bo Nix?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And where are you on him?
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Now?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I thought he was an early second round pick, and
I got news for you.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Most of the league did too.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Yeah, it was one of it was it was one
of the most onions filled decisions I've seen in a
long time. Let's put it that way, right, Sean Payton
went against the grain and everyone else in the draft,
and he did it with a wide receiver this year.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
He did it with his running back r J. Harvey
this year. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
He just he sees in players exactly what he needs
in his system. Bo Nix and Denver wouldn't be bo
Nicks the same guy as bo Nicks would be. Let's say,
what if he was drafted by the Jets, or if
he was drafted by some of these other organizations like
the BROWNSS, the organizations that seemingly every year or at
the top end, we're talking about how they have a
quarterback need. Again, bo Nicks just fits perfectly with what
(05:15):
Sean's looking for, and it hasn't all been beautiful and
these inconsistencies. And do I trust him in the playoffs? No,
I don't, and I'm okay saying that. But he's getting
better and you're starting to see progression in the offense.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I'll push back a little bit on.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I see the similarities with Ian Caleb, but I will
say Caleb's just more talented Caleb. They're both good athletes,
Caleb's but better athlete. They're both you know, yes, Bo
is better inside twelve yards with accuracy, but Caleb can
make throws that Bo can't make, and Bo can make
a lot of throws.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So that to me is the difference.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It was coming out and it remains the same now,
but each in each system. I'm trusting Caleb Moore, but
I probably trust Bo Nicks a little bit more and
Sean pay system because this.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Was a hand picked deal and Sean Payton got this right.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I love Sam Donald. He'll be playing tonight from the
very beginning, and then.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I'm me too, man, we were It's so good to
see his success, isn't it like.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A breath of fresh air.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And I know the last year didn't end well and
this year you're worried that the same thing could pop up.
But man, did I have a high grade on Sam
Donald coming out.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You know. One of the things I liked about him
is he came from a super athletic family, but they
were very like grounded people. There was no bougie They're
just neat people. When John Snyder said, Okay, I'm gonna
go for it. It's a team friendly deal, I'm gonna
go for it, and maybe I'll rephrase it. I knew
(06:46):
that Shanahan liked him. I knew that Kevin O'Connell liked him,
and I knew John Snyder liked him. Those are really
smart guys. That's why I never gave up on Donald.
I'm like all the people I trust in the league
keep telling me he just needs He was the youngest
guy draft of the year he came out. He was
like twenty one years old. When Schneider went and got
(07:07):
him this year for the Seahawks. Was there trepidation? What
were your sources sake? Or did a lot of people think, oh,
John stole him.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I raced to my editor to get it.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I couldn't write something down fast enough so it would
be out there.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Schneider.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
It's almost like he did it a certain way for
a long time, and he did it with Pete and
then kind of was feeling his way through this the
new coaching regime and the Seahawks. But when I look
at what he did this offseason, I was like, uh oh, here,
watch out. Schneider's going back to his roots. He's getting
(07:45):
a younger, more talented version at quarterback, and he's getting
ammunition to go win in the draft.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
He's a scout at heart man Like I've known John
since since I started in this business Jim Naggy, I
started with work back in New York City at nineteen
ninety nine, and they work together in Green Bay, and
so I got to know John and at his core,
he is a talent evaluator and a team builder and
he believed so much in the foundation from the draft right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So this allowed them to get younger at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
The moves they made in the offseason with DK and
getting rid of Gino allowed them to free up some
cap space, get some more ammunition in terms of the
draft and you're seeing it payoff. I thought maybe it
would take a year, but we're seeing it right away.
And so this is a Seattle team that is scary
when I mean they have been clicking most of the season.
(08:39):
I just want to see Sam put it all together
at the end of the season so we can.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Finally shut everybody up.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Colin, who is telling us I told you so Sam
can't do it in the league when he was twenty
one and playing for the Jets.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I mean, who could do that? The answer has been nobody.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Todd's got his top ten prospects in the draft. I
think I think it's very good at the top of
the draft this year. I didn't think last year was
good at the top of the draft at all. I
think this year is really really good. I mean a
lot of Ohio State guys. I like that you have
Makay Lemon. This is not necessarily a prediction on where
guys are going to go. There you go for our
(09:16):
audience receiver. There's some good receivers, man, there are in Utah.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
I didn't think there were gonna be good receivers coming
into this year.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
All three of those guys have been lights out. It's
been awesome to watch.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oregon is maybe the least discussed good team in college football.
Should Dante come out, people say he didn't have enough starts.
What is the film say on Dante Moore? Because I've
heard he's a great kid, great personality, team guy. What
is the film say on Dante Moore? Because you have him? Fifth,
he's the best pure passer in college football.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I believe that like smooth stroke, he throws the most
catchable ball of all these quarterbacks. Instincts, anticipation. He It's
interesting because he he is mobile. He he's not fast,
he doesn't love to run, but he's comfortable extending and
getting outside the pocket and creating.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I love him. I think he's going to be a
great pro.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
If he were solely listening to my advice, I would
say go back to school for another year. Man, because
I have evidence from twenty five years that I've gathered
that the number of starts that he has, which is
what seventeen, I think at this point it'll be eighteen, nineteen,
twenty somewhere in that range. The chances of him succeeding
(10:30):
with another twelve thirteen fourteen starts next year are significantly higher.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Twenty five years of.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Data telling me that, and why well, maybe he goes
back and without will Stein, his offensive coordinator who took
the head coaching job and is leaving after the college
football playoffs at Toyota, Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Maybe maybe they stumble a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Maybe he has some bad moments that he didn't necessarily
have this year, and that can be a good thing
for a quarterbacks development.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
If you look at all the tome, like the top fifteen.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Quarterbacks in the league, all of them are in that
thirty three to you know, sixty plus start range in
college and only a couple of them are in the
twenties and they're still around twenty six starts. I just
don't like when you only have you know, seventeen, eighteen,
nineteen starts under your belt going in the NFL. And
by the way, he's twenty years old. Colin so I
(11:21):
I like if he leaves for this year's draft class,
because it's only Mendoza right now.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
According to what everyone's saying that he's coming out early.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
He'll be a top ten pick and it could very
easily be you know, number four to Cleveland, number five
to the Jets.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
But you want another twenty year we just talked about
Sam Darnold.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
I don't care how talented, and by the way everyone
I talked to, he's mature as he is talented, and as.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Good a young man as he is talented.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Okay, but so is Sam right, and I just I
don't like that path for him, So I'd love to
see him back in college football next year, even though
it makes for a less exciting NFL draft.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
In the next few months, be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd weekdays and noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Hey is Covino and Rich from Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
Now, In addition to hearing us live weekdays from five
to seven pm Eastern and two to four Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio, We're excited to announce a brand new
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Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yep, that's right.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
You can now watch Covino and Rich live on YouTube
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FSR on YouTube again, go to YouTube search Covino and
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Speaker 1 (12:33):
Finally, Bama, Oklahoma, I've gone back and forth. Oklahoma's at home,
Oklahoma's pass rush, Bama can't run the football. You watch
a you watch as much college football as anybody. I know,
they've beaten him twice. I think Kaylen Debor is such
a gifted coach. I think Ty Simpson needs another year
of college. Doesn't blow me away that matchup? Who do
(12:54):
you like and why.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I love Ty Simpson and what he can be and
when he's at his best. I think defensive defenses have
figured out, hey, Alabama can't run the football successfully at all.
And I like, I'm here for Venables versus Debor, and
I'm here for I'm here for even Mattier with the
thumb and struggling versus Simpson. And I'm especially here for
(13:18):
Brenton Venables and that defense going up against Ty Simpson
and that passing game. What I don't understand is what
is there something going on? It feels like an undercurrent.
And I said this about LSU with Brian Kelly before
it all happened, and I'm saying it here again with Alabama.
And I'm not saying it's going to blow up and
it's all over and Debor's going to Michigan or.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Anything like that.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I'm just saying I've got people in Tuscaloose that I
talk to when I trust and it just feels like
something's not right. But I also know football players compartmentalize
better than most. And I do know that Ty Simpson
coaches son been around ball his whole life.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
He'll be ready to go. At first.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
I I was absolutely Oklahoma home game. I know that
they had twice as many yards the first meeting Alabama did.
They had twice as many first first downs or like
ten more minutes of time of possession. They owned that
game and still lost. The closer we get as I
look at Oklahoma, the more I think that Alabama and
(14:22):
what we saw in the SEC Championship game was kind
of a byproduct of we don't have fourteen guys that
wound up sitting out. We're getting most of those guys back.
I think this is going to be the best game
of the weekend. I think Miami, Texas A and m
is going to be really good gotten tohead. I'm going
Oklahoma still, But I just I look it to Boor
in his history, with a little bit of time to
prepare and in big games like this, he's so damn good.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Colin, Yeah, he went to Athens and literally had a
perfect first half of execution. So they can't run the
ball with a link, but they got three big time receivers. Todd,
you're great at the ringer covering this stuff forever at
McShay team. Is the Twitter handle ex handle. Whoever owns
it calls it whatever they want. Todd, it's great seeing you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Good to see you, tube brother. I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, guy does this stuff really well, knows it.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
His top ten prospects eight, nine and ten or wide
receivers Tate, Lemon and Tyson.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
There's a lot of Ohio State dudes.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
It is interesting about the number of starts you get
in college, Like there's just data that proves you got
to get over like twenty seven three. It's like bo
Nicks may have a high ceiling. But he was ready
to go by October mid October year one. He was
ready to go. I'll say this for Jackson Dart. He
had Lane Kiffen for three years, lane coach in the NFL.
Lane's in the lead offensive guy, top ten offensive guy
(15:43):
maybe in football, college or pro.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Jackson Dart was ready to play very early. It matters.
Speaker 7 (15:49):
Did you say he had how many receivers in the
top ten.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Well he has three. He has Tate, Lemon.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And Wild.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
So if you look around the current playoff teams right now,
look at the elite teams, there's not a lot of
guys drafted in the top ten at receiver. You can
find value later in the first round. Justin Jefferson, I
don't think JSN was top ten like receiver is. I
don't know. Do you consider that a premium position.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Well, that's a great that's a great question. I never did.
Wide receiver to me was icing on the cake. I
want to draft guys in the first round that are
the cake, but because of rule changes, quarterbacks one left tackle,
two edge rusher, three, perimeter weapon. Four I think you
have to have a perimeter weapon. Five I think underrated
(16:38):
is center a great center, and then six maybe a corner.
But now I will say I said edge rusher. I
would prefer a great dtackle. There just aren't many of
those body types. But I do think I used to
put receiver like eighth. I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 7 (16:54):
Let me ask you, though, Colin, do you think it's
easier to find a stud receiverver or a stud tackle,
stud offensive lineman in the third, fourth, and fifth rounds.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Oh, no wide receiver easily.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
So that's why, Like I mean, and this is his
top ten prospects. So yes, those guys maybe eliite properly.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Let's but here's the other thing to think about. So
it depends on what you are. Like, like like, I
think Carnell Tate more than Lemon and Tyson is such
a unique NFL body. I mean, he looks like he
could be a you could put weight on him, he
could be an outside linebacker. I think Tate is so
unique physically, I have no problem first round. I thought
(17:34):
Igbuca last year was such a great route runner. I
was like, that's a first round wide receiver Tampa. Like,
there's guys. Marvin Harrison has not been as good as
I thought, but I do think he's a unique wide receiver.
He's just been a slower build, so I think I like,
I don't buy A couple of years ago, Baltimore took
a center and a safety and everybody's like, whoa, they're
(17:55):
both Pro bowlers, the kid from Iowa at center and
then Hamilton for Notre Dame.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Just go get elite players.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So if you have if you have MacKaye Lemon, nineteenth,
best player to twenty third in your picks available, just
go unless you unless you're like Cincinnati and have Jamar
and t Higgins, or you're the Rams and have two
stars and have other needs.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
But I just I think.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
In the first round mostly you take the best player available.
Speaker 7 (18:23):
Yeah, and the other thing on quarterbacks. So here are
the last three quarterbacks that went number one overall. Bryce
Young three years ago. Is he the best quarterback drafted
in his class? Yes? Or no?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
No?
Speaker 7 (18:34):
Caleb Williams what number one? Is he the best quarterback
drafted in his class?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yes, the most, he's the most talented.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Is he the best so far?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Not so far?
Speaker 7 (18:41):
And then cam Ward this past year? Is he the
best quarterback that you've seen this year? John? The rookies,
Jackson Dart's been better, Tyler Shuck has been pretty damn
good recently. I'm just saying, I don't want to say
what first is a kiss of death? But Mendoza go
into some crap franchise. I'm not going to name them
because the fans get all upset. It may not be
the best thing for him and Dante more sliding down
(19:02):
a little could be better. I mean, it's a the
NFL is weird, and we've hit on this. The worst
teams continually do the dumbest things at.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
The top of the draft they do.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
What's better than a Saturday?
Speaker 7 (19:22):
How about a Super Saturday with an NFL doubleheader. First,
it's the Eagles versus Commanders, then the Packers take on
the Bears for control of the NFC North. Pregame coverage
begins at four pm Eastern on Fox.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Without further ado. Jaymack with the news.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
No, no, no, turn on the news. This is the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
All right, Let's go Dallas Cowboys. And mister George Pickens.
We haven't heard from him in a while, Colin, because
he's been ducking the media for the last two weeks. Essentially,
once he started stinking up the joint, he started avoiding
the media.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Kind of cow if you ask me.
Speaker 7 (20:00):
Pickens was finally available yesterday and decided to talk about
the criticism he's received.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
I'm kind of more focused on the Chargers, honestly, just
this following week, just knowing that they're ten or four
group knowing that played physicals, got a lot of good
defensive guys. Everybody has a job to do. Some people
job is to do that. It's like chear down character,
see how much clicks they can get. But I'm just
here to play football or help the team.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Honestly, mm hmmm, yeah, clicks. That's that's what it is. Clicks.
We're all that's about the clicks.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
Or there are no touchdowns in the last three games.
I don't know of these do but you look I
mean like I don't. I don't know him personally, but
when your history in Pittsburgh was dogging it at the
end of the season and then you start dogging it
on national televised Island games, Colin kind of says some
stuff about you, doesn't it? Or am I going overboard you?
Speaker 4 (20:49):
No?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I mean it's listen, it's it's not like the Cowboys
star quarterback got hurt. Dak's been there, the old lines,
the same ceedee Lamb's playing and uh, you know, offensive
coach and he's disappeared. So you don't go from eight
touchdowns to zero. I mean it's the body language isn't
good and he has a history got Yeah. Listen, are
(21:09):
a lot of people out of the draft, out of
Georgia that were like, be very careful. So anytime you
remind people of the one criticism doesn't matter if you're
a football player or not. You don't want to keep
reminding people of like this, this flaw that is widely recognized.
And he has been moody sometimes immature, and it looks
(21:30):
like he's pouting.
Speaker 7 (21:31):
So he's gonna get tagged or he's gonna become a
free agent and go somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I would certainly look.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
To a team with a rookie quarterback, but you have
to have a strong locker room, strong coach. Can I
interest you in Mike Rabel and New England strong coach,
tough locker room, not gonna put up with crap. Drake
May one of the best deep ball throwers in the league. No,
(21:58):
not really, Okay, you're off pickets, all right, final, Let's
go to the next story called aj Brown speaking of
diva receivers, He's had a lot of drama, had a
couple costly drops in that loss to the Chargers. Uh.
There's a report that indicates several anonymous executives believe the
Eagles will be parting ways with Brown at season's end.
(22:19):
I will float two to you because this is fun.
I'll start with the Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
They need a.
Speaker 7 (22:23):
Big downfield deep threat who's physical and when he pipes up,
you got a firm quarterback and coach who are willing
to shut him down quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Mahomes and Reid, They're.
Speaker 7 (22:32):
Not gonna put up with garbage from him. AJ Brown
in casey do you like it?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I do?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Actually, I I really do, because I think Worthy's a
gadget guy and I think he's a different body type.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
That one work.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And also, let's let's let's be fair here, is that
Rashi rise to this point?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Do I trust him? Not really?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So with with Kelsey leaving, that move in Kansas City.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Works for me.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
The other one I was thinking it was a Buffalo
Bills if they come up short in the playoffs this year,
they don't have a star receiver. And then some people
will say Jay Back, what about Vray Bowl where he
was previously within Tennessee, that the Patriots could use him
to pair with Drake By.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
That also works, oh, New England because of Brabile and
AJ Brown.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
That absolutely works to me. That's a fit.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
Yeah, and Dove tailing off what McVeigh said, there's a
lot of good receivers in this draft. If you can
move off an expensive one, get a cheap one in
the draft. That works for teams that have already paid
their quarterback. Final story, Colin Oh we haven't talked about
Schider Sanders and the Cleveland Browns hosting the Bills. Look
at that big big dogs this week ten and a
(23:41):
half at home. He did not have a great game
against the Bears. Heading into Sunday, He's got a tough
task against the Bills and Josh Allen. Here's Shdore talking
about this week's matchup.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
I just got to get more completions, you know, I
gotta get more completions than even whenever we're down or anything.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Care press.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
You know, I just gotta remain having those mental notes
to myself, just work within the game and just keep
just driving the ball your first downs.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I also think the Chicago Bears have a It was
a road game. Chicago's pretty stacked. He got behind, he
was pressing. You know, I'm not gonna hold it against him.
Rookies have really bad, really bad Sundays.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
It was a bad spot.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I mean the odds makers had the Bears over a
touchdown favorite.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
It went sideways fast, and.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I mean you got the secondary for Chicago. It's got
playmakers back there. So it's a it's a work in progress.
It's it's all we'll see. I you know, I don't
think he's a great franchise quarterback. The question is like
with JJ McCarthy, is he a franchise quarterback? JJ McCarthy.
Last three weeks, it's like, oh, okay, Schaduur looked interesting
(24:55):
first couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Now he's gone backwards. So it's just let him.
Speaker 7 (24:58):
Play some context. I will defend you Colin. He was
down three offensive linemen and then Djoku the tight end lost.
He was unfortunately, you know, with those three guys, maybe
out again this week, which is not ideal, you know
against Buffalo, which can get some pressure on the quarterback
with their front. And I don't know what to do
with Shador. You you think Dart franchise guy for sure.
(25:20):
I still think with Dart, Shadoor, Tyler Shuck, I like
some of what I've seen, they could go into next
season as starters. But I don't I'm not crowning any
of those guys in the class of Bo Nicks, Jaden Daniels,
Drake Bay, none of them are even close to it
might be all right.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I think Jackson Dart has for a rookie with a
pretty average offensive roster. I think Jackson Dart's been pretty good.
I think he's and he's tough, like he doesn't want
to go into the blue tent. You know, he's not
asking to go into the blue tent. It's just you
gotta go sometimes. J Mack with the news, Well.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
That's the news, and thanks for stopping by the herd
Line news it is.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
You know, I was thinking about this last night about
you know, these seasons are really long, and you know
Week one coaches now treated like an extension of you know,
the preseason, and then at the end of the season
you're often resting people or like soft tanking when you're
going to you know, have a starting quarterback mount play.
I think J Max mentioned it earlier. There's like seven
(26:20):
rookie quarterbacks, six rookie quarterbacks playing this weekend. So you know,
if you look at the playoff picture, by all means,
I think the AFC, which has been pretty easy to predict,
for years. You know the AFC. We're not going to
have Mahomes, We're not going to have Burrow. We're not
sure if we're going to have Lamar Jackson. It's a
(26:41):
little surprising, but I will say Denver made it last year.
Not a shock again, Harbaugh Herbert not a shock. Josh Allen,
not a shock. I mean Houston's made it. Isn't this
the third time C J. Strouds made the playoffs Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh is surprising because I figured they'd be eight or
nine win team, whatever. But I didn't think they make
(27:03):
the playoffs. We're still not sure they are. Baltimore could
still get in. Colts were surprisingly viable, and Jacksonville I
never trust has been better.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
But then when you start.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Looking at it, like you say, well what about Rabel
Rabel Drake May showed glimpses last year. I mean, I
picked New England for second in the division. It can't
be that big of a surprise. I didn't think they'd
be eleven and three. I thought they were a ten
win team. But it may not be as surprising as
everybody thinks. J Max said Chiefs aren't making the playoffs.
If you watch the trends. Kansas City's offense has been
(27:36):
middle of the pack, often worse in the second half.
The NFC playoff picture, I think the NFC now has
become the AFC the previous four years, where you've got
these combinations of quarterback and coach like McVeigh and Stafford.
That's elite. Shanahan and Purty say what you want, Lafleur
(27:56):
and Jordan Love Baker and Bowls.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I picked Begger to make the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Philadelphia, I think, has been weird and uneven, but we're
not surprised.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So I feel like.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
The NFC is better than the AFC and has become
the AFC in previous years. It's a little easier to protect.
Chicago is better than I thought, no question, But I'm
and Detroit. For the record, Detroit, you and I both
said they'll be the step back team in the league.
Washington being awful is a shock. Carolina being five hundred
(28:30):
not really. We both thought they got the right coach,
Dan Morgan, good GM. So the NFL to me is
very hard to predict on a week to week basis.
And again, certainly New England is better than even I thought,
and I picked them as a playoff team. But are
you a shock that TUA got worse? The Jets are
a mess. The Titans aren't very good. I mean, if
(28:54):
I said to you biggest surprise in the league, and
again people will say New England.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
But I picked them as a playoff.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Team, they can't be that big of I would say
Chicago being ten and four through fourteen games.
Speaker 7 (29:07):
Chicago's right there. Seattle has to be right there. Nobody
had them at eleven and three. You like them, but
nobody had them here.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I have a wildcard team.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
But the big difference is if you name the four
best quarterbacks in the NFL for best, it's pretty easy.
We've been doing this for a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
But just name them.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Well, Josh Allen right now, Matt Stafford, Mahomes.
Speaker 7 (29:25):
Burrow, interesting, no, Lamar Jackson because historically the big four
have been all in the AFC. Well, Burrow got hurt,
Lamar was hurt, and Mahomes's team is not very good.
So then all of a sudden you look at the rosters,
and the rosters in the NFC are way better. Oh
way better quarterbacks are better in the AFC. It's very
(29:45):
strange like that. Packers roster at full strike next year.
I think the Packers go in as the Super Bowl favorites, right,
I mean, when you assume Michael Parsons is back, everybody's
gonna be healthy.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
They're loaded, Colin, they are.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
It is interesting when you watch tonight, we all mention
these great quarterbacks. If you go back to like week
eleven in Carolina, the winningest quarterback in the league is
a quarterbacking for the Seahawks.
Speaker 7 (30:12):
Tonight, your boy Sam Darnold, Big Island game. Hopefully he
doesn't throw four picks this time, or you'll just come
on tomorrow and say, you know, interceptions don't matter that
much because he's.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Trying to he throws three or more.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I will not say that they matter, but it's where
you throw up. Like bow Knicks has nine picks, but
when trailing, bow Knicks has sixteen touchdowns and one pick.
So whatever, it is a sense of urgency. You know,
the defense gets more worn down over the course of
a game. Bow Nicks throws his interceptions in less crucial times.
(30:51):
Caleb Williams doesn't throw them at all, really, except for
the Green Bay one. All right, Todd McShay appreciate him
stopping by Joel Klatt to day, good stuff. We'll see
you tomorrow. Blazing Fies
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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