December 24, 2025 • 40 mins
Colin reacts to the Pro Bowl rosters and how the quarterback class there represents resiliency. Caleb Williams is being called a “Pro Bowl snub,” but you can say the same for Jared Goff by that metric. The Lamar Jackson situation in Baltimore turns incredibly sour, and it’s safe to ask how long his marriage with the Ravens will last as he reportedly seeks more money. Colin takes a stand – Justin Herbert isn’t overrated and you can’t put him down because of playoffs, he’s electric with Jim Harbaugh.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh what a Wednesday show. We have Christmas around the corner.
What an exciting time. NFL games tomorrow one hour from now.
We're bringing Greg co Sell in top of next hour
on a Wednesday to preview a very large and important
(00:47):
slate of NFL games. So good to be here. So
they name the Pro Bowl teams yesterday, and I want
to start with that. Once or twice a year, maybe
two or three times. I'll speak to a high school
or I'll speak to a college. And kids always ask
(01:08):
for advice in broadcasting, and my advice is, don't get
your head down. There's no one way to succeed. I mean,
Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates dropped out of college. Is that
great advice for young Texters? I don't know it was
for them. There is no one way to succeed. Just
(01:29):
be relentless and don't get discouraged. And I look at
the six Pro Bowl quarterbacks and I feel just the
same way would have been easy for Matt Stafford to
get discouraged. Let's look at all six. Start with the NFC.
Matt Stafford, beat up for years in Detroit, couldn't win
a playoff game, absolutely elite arm talent, and finally meets
(01:53):
his match, perfect match, Sean McVay. Then there's Dak Prescott,
not an elite arm talent, not even a great athlete,
meddaling owner, but highly productive. Maybe he has never had a
great coach. Stafford got one. I'm not sure DA's ever
had a great coach. He's had good coaches, but Dak's EQ,
(02:14):
Dak Prescott's IQ, overcoming injuries and the meddling owner, pro bowler.
Then there's Sam Darnold, Reclamation Project, second Pro Bowl, second
team in two years, Wildly athletic, big strong man. Is
he aggressive? He throws some ugly picks? All three different stories.
(02:35):
AFC Josh Allen out of Wyoming, couldn't get a scholarship,
dad sending tapes out. Goes to the Bills, a sad
franchise who needed a megastar and he leans into all
his power. Then there's Justin Herbert. Did he make the
Pro Bowl because of his production? No? He made it.
What he's overcoming worst offensive line according to PFF. His
(02:58):
leading rusher has three touchdowns. It's what he's overcome, his toughness,
been hit more than any quarterback in the league. And
then Drake May. Is he one of the sixth best quarterbacks?
Is Drake May one of the six best quarterbacks?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
For his age twenty three, he's way better than he
should be, and he keeps winning games and he like
leaves the league in completion percentage. Six different quarterbacks, all
of them different skills. I mean, Drake May and Justin
Herbert are kind of similar, different conferences, but they're all
(03:33):
different guys, different environments, different avenues. Herbert's had to overcome
an atrocious O line, several bad coaches before Jim Harbaugh,
Josh Allen's got a defensive coach, Matt Stafford's got a
brilliant offensive coach. It's like, whenever I look at the list,
like Forbes magazine will have richest people in the world.
(03:56):
Elon Musk made it narrow space. Bernard or No made
it in lux rebrands and Warren Buffett made a stock market.
There's no one path. But what does matter is not
getting discouraged. I mean, Justin Herbert has been hit over
one hundred and twenty times. Very easy to say, I
(04:16):
don't feel great. I'm going to take this Sunday off.
Matt Stafford, no playoff wins in Detroit, kept his head down.
So when I look at all these quarterbacks, just a
huge component of success for all these guys, here's the
one thing they have in common. Leadership and toughness. All
(04:37):
of them have that. Some have defensive coaches and I
have offensive coaches. One guy, Darnold's on his fifth team,
Matt Stafford is almost forty, and Drake May's twenty three.
They're all over the map. So here's my advice. Keep
plugging away, don't get discouraged. Relentless focused people who are
(05:00):
good teammates. You'll succeed. Maybe in your thirties, may have
to wait to your forties. You may hit it Rerich
at fifty four, but it'll work. Here is Matt Hasselback
earlier this week talking about two guys the Reclamation Project,
Darnald and the Cagy veteran Stafford.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
That whole division, Donald Stafford, and I would even put
the forty nine ers in that group. That's those three
teams right there. They've gotten great quarterback play all season long,
and they could stand up to anybody. And that's why
all three of those teams are still in play for
the one seed in the NFC.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now there's one quarterback you're not seeing here, and the
headline I read this morning, I like this Bears quarterback
Caleb Williams among Pro Bowl snubs. No timeout, timeout timeout
snub is pretty strong. Like pulp Fiction did not win
Best Movie? Was it a snub? Well, there was Forrest
(06:00):
Gump and Shaw Shank Redemption as a pretty good year.
We've had bad years. That's a pretty good year. That's
not a snub. He just lost out to other good movies.
All six quarterbacks that made the Pro Bowl have better
stats than Caleb. I mean, Donald's got a one on
one passer rating and Caleb's got an eighty nine. And
that's with a brilliant offensive coach. Donald's got a defensive guy.
(06:22):
Caleb's got a brilliant offensive coach. So if you want
to talk about a snub and his whole career could
be termed a snub. It's Jared Goff in the same
division as Caleb. Jared Goff's got thirty two touchdowns, five picks,
a one oh nine passer rating. People are like, well,
you know, he doesn't run very well. It's a quarterback,
(06:44):
so that's a snub. But if you look at Caleb's numbers,
eighty nine passer rating, fifty eight percent completion percentage, twenty
three touchdowns, six picks, his greatest stat to be honest
with you, eleven wins four a lot. That is impressive.
And what's impressive is that at Chicago and they can't
(07:07):
get quarterback right Caleb Season, if you really wanted to
break it down to what it's been a couple of
things is fourth quarter comebacks and amazing individual plays. Wow plays.
So his movie's been okay, but man, there's been some
great scenes in it. So Caleb Season is a little
(07:29):
bit like m Night Shyamalan movies. For a big chunk
of it, you're like, I'm not really sure what's going
on here, and then the last eight minutes you're likeah,
I can't believe that ending who that thing was. It
really makes a lot of sense. Now I never doubted it.
What a great movie. He didn't get snubbed. Jared Goff
(07:52):
got snubbed. You could argue, but even Goff, he's not
as good in the pocket, I would argue as Matt Stafford,
and most of those guys move pretty well except Matt Stafford.
But again, Caleb Yester. I think the best part about
Caleb be on the record is that when Caleb came
into the league. My takeaway was, I know he's great.
(08:13):
I watched every college snap. Will Chicago screw it up?
Green Bay gets quarterbacks, the Bears get defense. Will the
Bear screw it up? Here's Caleb on the Pro Bowl.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Snub I get drafted here, you know, told that I'm
not a special player, told that I'm not you know,
a good fit here, told that you know, coach and
I won't work. I've told you know I can't win here,
and so you know, I know that's going to keep
going on. But you know, I do take a little
(08:47):
satisfaction and and things like that. My goal isn't to
just get to the playoffs. My goal is to win
and win and win big.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You can hear you can hear it. He got a
little jet fuel. He got a little well well chip
on the shoulder, which I like. In fairness to the media,
now some media may have said this, My take has
always been what Ben Johnson wants and what Caleb does
is not necessarily a perfect fit. Now I would say
(09:15):
McVeigh and Stafford isn't even a perfect fit because McVeigh
would love to move the pocket occasionally. It's just Stafford
is so damn good in the pocket. They don't have to.
I mean, the Detroit coaches would love Jared Goff to
have some mobility. I don't think Ben and Caleb I'm
trying to think of perfect fit. I mean Andy Reid, Mahomes,
I guess. But the truth is Ben Johnson and Caleb
(09:39):
are both smart. They're both incredibly determined, and they're making
it work. And so I don't see it as a stump.
I see it as his story. His movie this year
has been about great finishes and great scenes first fifteen
(09:59):
minut and it's has no always been Oscar worthy. So
j Mac I do love, though most of the young
quarterbacks have. I will say this, sports fans, over the
course of my life have gotten smarter because there's just
more information. So if you read at an average level,
you know, there's just more stuff out there. Sports betting
is harder, I think because the markets smarter. These young
(10:22):
quarterbacks Hurts and Dak and Caleb and Drake May, they
are so good at the podium. They are they know,
you know, I mean, Caleb's kind of giving you that
sly smile, going, well, you know, I was told it
wasn't gonna work here. He didn't blast anybody, he just
kind of put it out there. I get a little
satisfaction none of that. These guys are not only schooled
(10:44):
in football, they're schooled at the podium, at the Cowherd
school of podium. Put the hat on forward and don't
start forest fires here, like like, bring the cooler, bring
the temperature down. But I thought Caleb a little smile saying, yeah,
I was told it wasn't gonna work. Ever, it takes
for you to be great on Saturday or Sunday. I'm four.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Yeah, easy to smile when you're ridding high and recovering
on sidekicks and getting lucky as heck to be nice.
I had the Bears last week. But you gotta be real,
it's easy when you're eleven and four. Let's see what
some when some adversity hits.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
How that there was a little adversity early in the season.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
But when they get lost to Detroit by thirty maybe yeah, yeah,
I mean there were some operational things they had to
clean up.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I mean it wasn't pretty in the first year one
with Ben Jonson's right. Yeah that's nice. Yeah, that's good stuff.
All right, Greg Cosell fifty minutes from now, can't wait
for that.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter nin a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Pauly Foods Gohea with Tony Foosco.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (11:52):
As everybody knows, we're the hosts of the award winning
Paully and Tony Foodsco Show.
Speaker 8 (11:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
But instead of us telling you how great we are,
here's how Dan Patrick described when he came on our show.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Quick, knowledgeable and funny, opinionated. Bah, what are you doing?
We were interrupting our promo.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah, he wasn't talking about you. You took those clips
totally of context.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Oh yeah, Well, after this promo, I'm gonna take you
out and beat you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Let me put this into context.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Shut up.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
Yeah, anyway, just listen to the Paul and Toni Fusco
Show on iHeartRadio. Apple podcasts oherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yee.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, the Dallas Mavericks beat the Denver Nuggets last night,
surprise surprise. But what's increasingly not becoming a surprise is
that Cooper Flagg had thirty three points. He's nineteen. He
should be checking into his dorm room as a freshman
at Duke. His last ten games twenty four points, six rebounds,
(12:52):
five assists, great defender, fifty three percent from the floor.
I don't want to hear about twenty four year old
Aunt Edwards who didn't want to be the face of
the league, or twenty seven year old Jason Tatum who
wants to be but doesn't have the aura. This is
a kid that, if he wants to be, will be
the face of the league. Talent, Duke, aggressive, mature, grown up.
(13:14):
He's got the ability to do things which Zion and
John Morant did too, but they're still kids. Cooper Flag
is nineteen and on a game with Jokis, Jamal Murray
and ad he leed it in scoring. He should be
a freshman at duke eating lunch with the rest of
(13:36):
the students. So I don't think the NBA needs a
face of the league. I've said that multiple times. I
think it's overrated. Ratings are up this year. They don't
have a face of the league. It wouldn't hurt and
it would be great if it was a Duke kid.
I always said his comp was a much better, more
aggressive Jason Tatum. He's a better defender now than Tatum
was at this age. He's a much more aggressive score
(13:58):
than Tatum was. And I think that agree if thing
be at the Lake, Kobe, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird. The
greats are aggressive. When you got to talk them into
taking over, they can be productive. I don't know if
they're great. So this kid plays with the maturity sadly
that I don't think Zion ever played with, because I
thought Zion had a chance to be the face of
(14:19):
the league. He doesn't force things, but Mann does. He
want the ball in big spots. So it's just you're
looking at and again, the league doesn't need a face
of the league. The ratings are up. If you really
break down the ratings fairly, they're up like nineteen percent.
So and the other thing I like about Cooper Flag
and I see this even in broadcasting, too many guys
(14:42):
are trying to be tough and cool. Kevin Hart talked
about this be smart. Cooper Flag doesn't have to try
to be tough or cool. His talent is both. And
I mean, look at his splits, look at what he
is doing. It took him a month to hatch up
to the NBA physicality and speed. Thirteen a game in
(15:03):
October eighteen, a game in November twenty four, a game
in December. He's nineteen field goal percentage forty one to
fifty three. This is These are massive leaps for a
nineteen year old. Here's Jason Kidd on last night on a.
Speaker 9 (15:22):
Back to back, understanding to his standards, he might not
have played well last night, and so for him to
come and set the tone for us tonight again, he
showed up the stat sheet, almost had a triple double,
but we played through him late and he found the
right guys and executed on both ends of the floor.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
He is he really and again, Jason Tatum sort of
wants to be the face of the league. Very good player,
but I always said I'm not sure he has the
aura Aunt Edwards is like, I don't want to be it.
I'm Cooper flagged just by his game and his aggressiveness.
It does help that he went to do That's why
I thought Zion could be the face of the league.
(16:02):
I thought Duke and Nike really helped him Jet fuel
to be a star by twenty one twenty two, and
Zion had an amazing rookie season. But wait, and injuries,
couldn't stay on the floor. God, this kid's good. This
kid is something else. And j Mack, you and I
loved him at Duke Jmack with.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
A news no, no, turn on the news. This is
the herd Line news.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Yes, indeed we did all right, Colin. We got some
breaking news here. This is just dropping. A huge story
just came out of the Baltimore Sun about Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Now there's a lot to get into here.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
I just buzzed through the story here in the last
ten minutes. But bottom line is it's not good. It's
not good for the future of Lamar Jackson in Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Apparently he wants a new deal.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
Number two years ago, when I wanted the Jets to
grab him, he was having issues with Baltimore. His mom
was negotiating. He wanted the fully guaranteed deal, didn't get it. Well,
he has one more year before the Ravens can kind
of move on from him if they want. But Colin,
some of the quotes in this article are pretty damning.
And this is from a long time credible journalist. Yeah,
(17:10):
a incredible guy that's been around the program. So he's
getting fed this. Yeah, So there are rules. There are
team rules, and there are rules for Lamar Jackson. Once
the Ravens become critical of Jackson, he becomes more withdrawn.
It's clear that coach John Harbaugh has become tired of Jackson. Colin,
Remember we've been talking about it, but I didn't put
the pieces together. It would be like a Wednesday in
(17:32):
October and Lamar's like missing practice, and then he would
miss like a Thursday practice the next week. He's just
like not there all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
How about this one? How about this quote? He doesn't
need to be uplaying playing video games.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I mean, there's part.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Of the article says that he doesn't want to practice
in the morning, so the team practices in the afternoon.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Now is that because of video games?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Hey, sometimes you.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Get you're calling asleep in meetings.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Colin, this is not great. Now, I did look at this.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
His cap hit this year forty three and a half million,
leaps to seventy four and a half million dollars next year.
Twenty four percent of the Raven salary cap is going
to Lamar. They already don't have a good offensive line.
They tried to put pieces together some young guys. None
of it worked. Okay, his base salary goes from twenty
mil to fifty one mill. Hey, Lamar's getting paid great.
(18:23):
I don't know what the future is though. The speculation
at the end of the article is.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Lamar would love to be in Miami.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
We know he's from South Florida or Las Vegas, where
in the article says Tom Brady has a fotness for him.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Oh, both of those guys need quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Hey, this is interesting. This is a fascinating story. If
this stuff is true. He's had injuries. I mean, he's
not as dynamic as he was the first four years
starting that is, and we know he's going to get
less dynamic now. He may be better at the start
of next year. But the truth is, my Kelvick told
(19:00):
me this once. The first three years is one style.
The remaining years after the hits, you're never quite as
good as you were your last year in college, in
your first three years in the NFL. And Michael Vick
has said that he's like, you can't withstand these hits.
That the practice, the hitting, the games, the traveling goes
it just wears you out. So and I'm dead serious
(19:21):
on this. Baltimore has such a great owner, such a
great front office. They had six Pro Bowlers I think
or something like that. They are such an unbelievable organization,
and they have so much equity with fans. And I
am a Lamar Jackson fan, but I could. I would
defend Baltimore if they Miami said, okay, we'll give you
(19:43):
two number ones, you know, and two number two's, and
you moved off him and now for a year, you know,
you're drafting a quarterback with your top pick, I would
defend that. If this is true, two things be true.
I love Lamar, but it is ill because let's be honest,
(20:04):
we know what separates him. It's not the pocket stuff,
although he's always been better than given credit for. It's
the athletic ability. Well, what happens was super athletic NBA guys,
Westbrook page fast. Yeah, remember Jose Rams the Mets baseball
player page fast, Cam Newton aged fast, Stafford Aaron Rodgers
(20:24):
is forty two. You know, he just sits in the pocket.
And Stafford's old Kirk Cousins all that. Philip Rivers is
forty four. He's throw it for three hundred yards. So
if Baltimore said, listen, we've done it, it's a big
cap hit. We think the window for greatness is closed.
If I was Vegas, I'd go for it, and if
I was mine because Miami and Vegas don't have the
(20:47):
standards or to me, the ownership or the infrastructure of
the Ravens. They don't.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
So Colin, right out of the bat, I can tell
you this, the Raiders are going to be drafting one
or two.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
Would they danngle that for Nan Mendoza pick to the
Ravens obviously with more.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Stuff for Lamar Jackson?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Guess what?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Guess it was a quarterback that.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
John Harball had in Baltimore before Lamar, Joe Flacco. You know,
Joe Flecco physically, big pocket guy, big arm.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Why wouldn't they say, hey, let's just.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Reboot with Mendoza Cam Newton's last great year was twenty nine.
You know, old Cam Newton. Twenty nine for Cam Newton.
How old is Lamar next year.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Turns twenty nine in about two weeks?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Okay, so think about that. Bo Nix's cap hit next
year one point seven percent of the Broncos cap. Lamar's
will be twenty four percent. Denver's gonna have six players
on that roster that Baltimore could not afford. By the way,
Caleb Bears cap next year three point six, seven and
(21:47):
a half times lower than Lamar's. That's why the Bears
and the Broncos we've been saying this all year. Look
at their rosters. You could argue there, I mean, there's
like eight elite, nine elite players. Baltimore's got three or four.
So I think if you're Vegas in a week quarterback class,
if you're Vegas or Miami, I would absolutely get on
(22:08):
the phone and defend that. How long does Pete Carroll
want to wait for a college guy to get good?
Speaker 6 (22:12):
I don't know if Pete Carroll's gonna coach Labar, but
somebody would. But I guess the final leg of is
Colin Like we just saw it in the Division. Joe
Burrow also very unhappy playing football. Lamar Jackson very unhappy.
Those guys had awesome runs earlier this Remember Monday, I
said it's over for those guys, their run with their team.
Those teams need to reboot, rebuild, so it's going to
take some time.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Colin, this is a long standing reporter for the Ravens.
What you and I are saying. If this is true,
the Ravens are so well run, with so much equity
from their fans sellout games, is it time to take
phone calls from Vegas and Miami and it is a
week draft. I think it's worth taking. You know, you
(22:55):
and I I've said this before, Jason, at any one
time in the NFL, Well, there's only about six quarterbacks.
I think Herbert's one of them, Josh Allen's one of them.
Mahomes is obviously one of them that a GM doesn't
pick up the phone. There's another six quarterbacks who are
really good, but you would pick up the phone and
(23:15):
listen to the offer, and then there's fifteen you get
on the phone and try to upgrade. Lamar has gone
from that first group if this is true, where you
wouldn't even pick up the phone. He's gone to the
second six, which is I'll take the call and listen.
If this story is true.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Well I don't doubt it at all. And here's the
other problem for Baltimore Colin. It's like, no, no, we'll
just give.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
It one more year. Whoa wait, one more year.
Speaker 6 (23:39):
He's going to be thirty in January of twenty seven,
and then it's like, what's the market for Lamar? You
might just have to sell Hi right now and move on.
I think the Raiders in Mendoza and the Miami Dolphins,
you and I.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Both think this is a legitimate story, very very much so.
So if it is, somebody is feeding this if it is,
and I just think the best way to put it is,
Lamar's gone from six guys that you don't even pick
the phone up to the next six or seven to
eight guys where you're not looking to trade him, but
(24:13):
you'll listen. Yeah, you'll listen.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
John Harball, it's me or Lamar. I don't know anyways,
all right, let's move on. Travis Kelce, Colin and the
Kansas City Chiefs. Very interesting subplot to this Christmas game tomorrow.
It's probably his final game at Arrowhead Andy Reid was
asked about that, and here's what he had to say.
Speaker 10 (24:34):
I don't know if it is or not.
Speaker 11 (24:35):
I haven't talked to him, but I think his numbers
and personality and the person how I think speak for themselves.
Phenomenal person great for the community, has been great for
the community. He's everything you know you want from a
player representing an organization.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
Yeah, I think it's over any Listen, the games tomorrow
aren't awesome. Any action from you on Bronco's Chiefs thirteen
and a half on the road.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Have you seen that Dallas number tomorrow?
Speaker 8 (25:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I already bet Dallas. But I'm looking at this Chiefs gape.
I don't think the Chiefs totally roll over here, do you.
Speaker 9 (25:20):
Well.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I think Denver's in a bad mood so and I
think Denver's looking around at New England. I think Denver
is if they could would pile on a little bit,
little extra touchdown or field goal, I think I actually
think Denver's decide. I think Kansas City can say we're embarrassed,
so what they just don't have the personnel. I think
the Bronco's awful loss with Jacksonville and New England breathing
(25:41):
down their neck. I can see Denver san Fellas. We
got to write the ship here. Let's make not only
a win, let's make a statement. Interesting. Huh.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I need to see Raceie Rice. If all these guys
are going to play, I don't know, Trent McDuffie.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Do they just say, ah, forget it, season's over. Probably
nothing on me for that game. And finally let's go
to the Cliland Browns and Miles Garrett.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
One of the.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
Interesting subplots here is is he going to break the
all times sack record? I don't know, Colin, He's very close.
He's one of the all time great defensive ends. He's
one sack away from the record. A former teammate of
Garrett believes he's the best defensive player ever. He's the
best defensive pass rusher I've ever seen in my entire life.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
And that goes back to watching Reggie White.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
When I was a kid, when he was with the
Green Bay Packers win in a Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And so I think what Miles is doing is amazing.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
And especially when you consider he's doing it on a
team that's not very good.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, that's a good point because the Browns usually trail late,
meaning teams don't throw, so he doesn't get the opportunities
because the Browns usually trail with eight minutes to go.
I think what you can make this argument that Miles
Garrett has moved into a group of the four greatest
defensive players Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Aaron Donald, I mean
(27:04):
unblockable players, and I never thought there was a fourth.
Those were always the three. I mean Aaron Donald. There
is video of Aaron Donald. Think about this J MCT
of Aaron Donald. It is last year being triple team
where your offensive line coach goes. I got five guys,
three of them block Aaron Donald. So Donald, Reggie Lawrence
(27:26):
are the three greatest I've seen now, I think Ed
Reid and Ronnie Lott. I mean, there's been other DJ Sanders,
but JJ Watt is unbelievable and a great broadcaster. By
the way, he's a tremendous broadcaster. But I do think
there's an argument, and maybe JJ Watt was also in this. JJ.
Miles Garrett, you're in like, okay, can we do the
Mount Rushmore thing? Do we have a fourth guy? And
(27:50):
I think there's an argument, Miles Garrett, and he needs
to This is important when you plan a bad team,
you trail late in games. So, Miles Garrett, you know
Dwight Freeney is a very good player. You know, Peyton
Manning and the Colts led eighty percent of their games
with six minutes to go. Dwight Freeney could pit his
(28:11):
ears back and go They're passing. And the league was
not as mobile for quarterbacks, so you knew where the
quarterback was seven steps behind the center. So for Miles
to do this, when you contextualize it, it's really something.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Speaking of not mobile Aaron Rodgers this week, is there
a warl where Aaron Rodgers just lays down to give
Miles Garrett the record?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
He's just such a nice.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
War far did that to Michael Strahan?
Speaker 6 (28:34):
Yes, sir ee, good memory, I think Rogers. I can
totally see that happening coming.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Out of respect. I might have to change, you know,
if Aaron does that, I might have to change my
tune a new chapter in the Aaron book. Yes. Jmack
with the news, Well that's the news, and thanks for
stopping by the.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
There are Greg Cosell Top of the Hour. There's so
many good topics today. I don't know which one to pick.
There's a cowboy topic that's fascinating. You see George Pickens
made the Pro Bowl. Well you're rolling your eyes. Well
he made the Pro Bowl.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Okay, Well, wonderful he made the Pro Bowl.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
Put that on your resume, like, yes, it doesn't enhance
his trade value, Colin.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Well, it's only did they only sign him. He did
a one year deal on year deal, so it's like
sign him franchise tag. So it's really there's very interesting.
It's a very interesting proposition for the Cowboys on George Pickens. Plus,
I like people to have takes. I'm going to take business,
so I'm there's a lot of bad ones, there's a
(29:44):
lot of good ones. But don't ever listen to anybody.
If you have a strong opinion and it's a theory,
it may not work, it's unproven. You go ahead and
have it. But I want to talk Pickens and the
worst take of the year that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
There's some more great football come in your way in
the Trust and Will Holiday Bowl Noah Fafida and Arizona
take on SMU. Don't miss a perennial barn Burner January second,
at seven thirty eastern.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
On Fox, Greg co Sal fifteen minutes. So I am
in the sports opinion business. Don't listen to the old
grumpy gatekeepers, the media critics. You have any opinion you want.
I love when people have theories and they're not even
necessarily going to work out, but it makes me think.
(30:44):
I like anybody that makes me think. But there is
one sports opinion that is just bad and you can't
have it. Even I not an old grumpy gatekeeper, I
will not accept it, which is, you know, Justin Herberts
never won a playoff game. He is overrated. Not acceptable.
(31:06):
So PFF ranked all thirty two offensive supporting casts for
the quarterback, the O line, the running back, the tight end,
the wide receiver. Now at the top, I think we'd
all agree, Rams and Colts and Bears and Bills and
Lions and Seahawks. But look at the bottom. Five awful
(31:27):
teams awful except the Chargers, who are not only not awful,
they're eleven and four. Oh I forgot Justin Herbert's never
won a playoff game. It took Matt Stafford thirteen years
to win a playoff game. I think he's pretty good.
(31:49):
Took Peyton Manning six. I also think he's pretty good.
Justin Herbert this year has been sacked forty nine times.
He has been hit one hundred and twenty one. There's
nobody close to that. He has a broken hand. His
leading rusher has three touchdowns. It's the thirty second ranked
offensive line and they're eleven and four. Oh yeah, but
(32:14):
he he did leave a playoff game and his coach
a disaster, gagged away the second half. So as twenty
and twenty five is coming to a close, you can
have any sports opinion you want. Don't listen to the
critics and the gatekeepers that the fun of sports and
politics is debating. There's nothing better to debate than sports
(32:39):
and politics. Say what you want, have fun, But you
can't say Justin Herbert's overrated after this year. If you want,
Jim Harbaugh's pretty intense. Jim Harbaugh becomes a stand up comic.
I mean, the guy literally can't wipe the smile all
(33:00):
off his face every time he gets asked about what
Justin Herbert's doing this year, and.
Speaker 10 (33:08):
Justin Herbert, he's a superhero.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
He is a competitive maniac.
Speaker 10 (33:14):
There's something in his competitive fire almost it motivates him
even more. Justin Herbert pack to throw just a mighty man. Yeah,
I'm gonna remember that playing so they throw dirt over
top of me. There's almost some about him as far
as quarterback performances go. That was a Picasso. It felt
(33:34):
like like I was in a movie. Like we were
in a movie where you know, the quarterback's doing these
and it's like you get to the point where we go, Okay,
this is getting a little unrealistic. I do have an
update on his physical status. He's still a beast.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
I mean, it's it is unbelievable. Thirty second ranked offensive
line backups to backups eleven and four, broken hand leading
Russia as six hundred and thirty five yards and three
touchdowns eleven and four. He's gotten the you know what
kicked out of him every Sunday. I mean last week
(34:14):
he didn't get sacked. I mean it must have felt
like a weird out of body experience. He didn't take
a helmet to the throat last week. Can't have that,
sports opinion, at least not after watching this year. Can't
not acceptable. Okay. So George Pickens, Dallas receiver, made the
Pro Bowl. And I really do think the difference between
(34:39):
like a great GM and a good GM and an
average GM. A lot of times do you understand the
difference between talent. There's a lot of talent and pro
sports and foundational players. Tim Duncan's a foundational player. Zach
Levine's talented. Okay, I would argue George Pickens is not
(35:00):
a foundational player. And you got him for a third
round pick and he made a Pro Bowl. Don't get greedy.
He's not a foundational piece. Okay. Dallas already has cd
lamb Ryan Flornoy is becoming really good, really fast, and
Pickens is starting to exhibit certain personality qualities that you
(35:25):
thought Georgia and Pittsburgh kind of disappears. So again, ninety
percent of NFL players, and I'm talking about the good
players are not foundational pieces. There are very I've said,
and when it comes to the NFL, pay huge money
very infrequently. Josh Allen, whatever, Mahomes whatever, you know. It
(35:48):
looks like Drake May is one of those you pay whatever. Okay.
Caleb Williams keeps doing this. Yeah, you don't pick up
the phone, you pay whatever. But the talented guys, in fact,
even the Pro bowlers are not foundational. Miles Garrett's foundational. Okay,
(36:09):
Panay Sueanay suell that that's foundational, you know, and you say, well,
he's just right tackle No, No, that's foundational. Okay, Miles Garrett's foundational.
Tyreek Hill people thought was, but the Chiefs knew better.
They won two Super Bowls without him. Miami didn't win
a playoff game with him. So, I mean, the best
(36:34):
GM in the league arguably is John Snyder and Seattle
moved off DK Metcalf. Seattle is vying for the number
one seed without him. Yeah, without him, he was not
a foundational player. Js N feels like that's a foundational player,
runs the route tree, great hands, doesn't matter the defense,
(36:58):
mature leader, JSN fields, and there's not. Jamar Chase is foundational.
Tyreek Hill's talented. Well, what's the difference? Consistency maturity, getting
along with your quarterback and your coach, not throwing people
under the bus. I'll tell you. Pooka Nakua had a
bad couple of weeks. Dude, A little less live streaming,
(37:20):
little more leadership. Okay, I know it's a fine line,
but I think there's an argument with floor Noy becoming
a real go to guy. Pigs get fed, Hoggs gets slaughtered.
Isn't that what they always say on Wall Street, Like
you got this stock for almost nothing, it doubled or
tripled in price. Maybe now's the cell time And that's
(37:43):
not a knock. I am not in any way saying
George isn't a remarkable player. I mean, like seven games in,
I'm like, oh my god, I think you have to
resign him. I know there's the temper stuff. I know that,
I think, but you let stuff play out. These are
long seasons. The weather gets cold, the practices get hard,
players get dinged up, the real truth comes out. We
(38:04):
had that Lamar Jackson story, you know, twenty five minutes ago.
You know, is more information comes out, you have different opinions.
That's what adults do. So I don't know. I I
think I was. I'm watching the Cowboys the last couple
of weeks and I'm like, where'd George go? And I
think Dallas knows it, because if you noticed, it feels
(38:25):
like they're making Florin Oi a bigger part of the
game plan. That's what it feels like to me. Here's
pickings on his Pro Bowl.
Speaker 8 (38:35):
It definitely improves as far as like a career, as
far as like contractually wise, like you said, I can
just just wait till all season.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Definitely.
Speaker 8 (38:42):
Like I always said, the guys here I feel like
you can't get And that's why I always say that,
because you cannot get that everywhere. I kind of been
at other places top thirty visits when I was coming
on in a pre draft. The guys here is just in.
The culture here is just a little different.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
So it's interesting. There was an NFL trade. Jmack was
highly critical of it when the Colts gave up two
firsts for Sauce Gardener, and I text, I text a
GM that I trust, and he said his take was
two firsts is a foundational player. Sauce Gardner is a
talented player, He's not a foundational player. Now, Chris Ballard
(39:18):
obviously disagrees with that. When you give up multiple firsts
like Matt Stafford, that's a foundational player, right right right.
I always thought Calvin Johnson, the maturity, the size, the consistency,
the physicality. That's a found that you can build for
ten years around him. Gets along with coaches. Randy Moss
is talented, but he could struggle sometimes with you know,
(39:39):
some of the relationship stuff. He get frustrated. I love
Stefon Diggs, but again, over time he's gotten frustrated. It fits,
it doesn't fit. There are very few guys in pro.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Sports quarterbacks and maybe some left tackles.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Interback, left tackle. A handful of Max Crosby. I'm not
trading Max Crosby. I'm not I'm not trading Miles Garrett,
Jared versu Is becoming a star player. There are a
handful of guys you look at and you're like, Okay,
that's just not I'm not but a guy. Last week,
Abdul Carter of the Giants, unbelievable talent. He's missed meetings,
he lined up offside, the Giants had a defensive touchdown
(40:17):
taken away. So you're already as a rookie to me
telling me signs you're just a talented guy. You're not
a foundational piece guy. Michael Strahan foundational. You got consistency,
you got the maturity, you've got the respect in the
locker room. So no, it's not a criticism. Very few
(40:37):
great players are guys you're like, let's sign him for
eight years. I mean, if be like a baseball contract,
we'll give you four to five years. There's no doubts
in the room.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh what a Wednesday show. We have Christmas around the corner.
What an exciting time. NFL games tomorrow one hour from now.
We're bringing Greg co Sell in top of next hour
on a Wednesday to preview a very large and important
(00:47):
slate of NFL games. So good to be here. So
they name the Pro Bowl teams yesterday, and I want
to start with that. Once or twice a year, maybe
two or three times. I'll speak to a high school
or I'll speak to a college. And kids always ask
(01:08):
for advice in broadcasting, and my advice is, don't get
your head down. There's no one way to succeed. I mean,
Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates dropped out of college. Is that
great advice for young Texters? I don't know it was
for them. There is no one way to succeed. Just
(01:29):
be relentless and don't get discouraged. And I look at
the six Pro Bowl quarterbacks and I feel just the
same way would have been easy for Matt Stafford to
get discouraged. Let's look at all six. Start with the NFC.
Matt Stafford, beat up for years in Detroit, couldn't win
a playoff game, absolutely elite arm talent, and finally meets
(01:53):
his match, perfect match, Sean McVay. Then there's Dak Prescott,
not an elite arm talent, not even a great athlete,
meddaling owner, but highly productive. Maybe he has never had a
great coach. Stafford got one. I'm not sure DA's ever
had a great coach. He's had good coaches, but Dak's EQ,
(02:14):
Dak Prescott's IQ, overcoming injuries and the meddling owner, pro bowler.
Then there's Sam Darnold, Reclamation Project, second Pro Bowl, second
team in two years, Wildly athletic, big strong man. Is
he aggressive? He throws some ugly picks? All three different stories.
(02:35):
AFC Josh Allen out of Wyoming, couldn't get a scholarship,
dad sending tapes out. Goes to the Bills, a sad
franchise who needed a megastar and he leans into all
his power. Then there's Justin Herbert. Did he make the
Pro Bowl because of his production? No? He made it.
What he's overcoming worst offensive line according to PFF. His
(02:58):
leading rusher has three touchdowns. It's what he's overcome, his toughness,
been hit more than any quarterback in the league. And
then Drake May. Is he one of the sixth best quarterbacks?
Is Drake May one of the six best quarterbacks?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
For his age twenty three, he's way better than he
should be, and he keeps winning games and he like
leaves the league in completion percentage. Six different quarterbacks, all
of them different skills. I mean, Drake May and Justin
Herbert are kind of similar, different conferences, but they're all
(03:33):
different guys, different environments, different avenues. Herbert's had to overcome
an atrocious O line, several bad coaches before Jim Harbaugh,
Josh Allen's got a defensive coach, Matt Stafford's got a
brilliant offensive coach. It's like, whenever I look at the list,
like Forbes magazine will have richest people in the world.
(03:56):
Elon Musk made it narrow space. Bernard or No made
it in lux rebrands and Warren Buffett made a stock market.
There's no one path. But what does matter is not
getting discouraged. I mean, Justin Herbert has been hit over
one hundred and twenty times. Very easy to say, I
(04:16):
don't feel great. I'm going to take this Sunday off.
Matt Stafford, no playoff wins in Detroit, kept his head down.
So when I look at all these quarterbacks, just a
huge component of success for all these guys, here's the
one thing they have in common. Leadership and toughness. All
(04:37):
of them have that. Some have defensive coaches and I
have offensive coaches. One guy, Darnold's on his fifth team,
Matt Stafford is almost forty, and Drake May's twenty three.
They're all over the map. So here's my advice. Keep
plugging away, don't get discouraged. Relentless focused people who are
(05:00):
good teammates. You'll succeed. Maybe in your thirties, may have
to wait to your forties. You may hit it Rerich
at fifty four, but it'll work. Here is Matt Hasselback
earlier this week talking about two guys the Reclamation Project,
Darnald and the Cagy veteran Stafford.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
That whole division, Donald Stafford, and I would even put
the forty nine ers in that group. That's those three
teams right there. They've gotten great quarterback play all season long,
and they could stand up to anybody. And that's why
all three of those teams are still in play for
the one seed in the NFC.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now there's one quarterback you're not seeing here, and the
headline I read this morning, I like this Bears quarterback
Caleb Williams among Pro Bowl snubs. No timeout, timeout timeout
snub is pretty strong. Like pulp Fiction did not win
Best Movie? Was it a snub? Well, there was Forrest
(06:00):
Gump and Shaw Shank Redemption as a pretty good year.
We've had bad years. That's a pretty good year. That's
not a snub. He just lost out to other good movies.
All six quarterbacks that made the Pro Bowl have better
stats than Caleb. I mean, Donald's got a one on
one passer rating and Caleb's got an eighty nine. And
that's with a brilliant offensive coach. Donald's got a defensive guy.
(06:22):
Caleb's got a brilliant offensive coach. So if you want
to talk about a snub and his whole career could
be termed a snub. It's Jared Goff in the same
division as Caleb. Jared Goff's got thirty two touchdowns, five picks,
a one oh nine passer rating. People are like, well,
you know, he doesn't run very well. It's a quarterback,
(06:44):
so that's a snub. But if you look at Caleb's numbers,
eighty nine passer rating, fifty eight percent completion percentage, twenty
three touchdowns, six picks, his greatest stat to be honest
with you, eleven wins four a lot. That is impressive.
And what's impressive is that at Chicago and they can't
(07:07):
get quarterback right Caleb Season, if you really wanted to
break it down to what it's been a couple of
things is fourth quarter comebacks and amazing individual plays. Wow plays.
So his movie's been okay, but man, there's been some
great scenes in it. So Caleb Season is a little
(07:29):
bit like m Night Shyamalan movies. For a big chunk
of it, you're like, I'm not really sure what's going
on here, and then the last eight minutes you're likeah,
I can't believe that ending who that thing was. It
really makes a lot of sense. Now I never doubted it.
What a great movie. He didn't get snubbed. Jared Goff
(07:52):
got snubbed. You could argue, but even Goff, he's not
as good in the pocket, I would argue as Matt Stafford,
and most of those guys move pretty well except Matt Stafford.
But again, Caleb Yester. I think the best part about
Caleb be on the record is that when Caleb came
into the league. My takeaway was, I know he's great.
(08:13):
I watched every college snap. Will Chicago screw it up?
Green Bay gets quarterbacks, the Bears get defense. Will the
Bear screw it up? Here's Caleb on the Pro Bowl.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Snub I get drafted here, you know, told that I'm
not a special player, told that I'm not you know,
a good fit here, told that you know, coach and
I won't work. I've told you know I can't win here,
and so you know, I know that's going to keep
going on. But you know, I do take a little
(08:47):
satisfaction and and things like that. My goal isn't to
just get to the playoffs. My goal is to win
and win and win big.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You can hear you can hear it. He got a
little jet fuel. He got a little well well chip
on the shoulder, which I like. In fairness to the media,
now some media may have said this, My take has
always been what Ben Johnson wants and what Caleb does
is not necessarily a perfect fit. Now I would say
(09:15):
McVeigh and Stafford isn't even a perfect fit because McVeigh
would love to move the pocket occasionally. It's just Stafford
is so damn good in the pocket. They don't have to.
I mean, the Detroit coaches would love Jared Goff to
have some mobility. I don't think Ben and Caleb I'm
trying to think of perfect fit. I mean Andy Reid, Mahomes,
I guess. But the truth is Ben Johnson and Caleb
(09:39):
are both smart. They're both incredibly determined, and they're making
it work. And so I don't see it as a stump.
I see it as his story. His movie this year
has been about great finishes and great scenes first fifteen
(09:59):
minut and it's has no always been Oscar worthy. So
j Mac I do love, though most of the young
quarterbacks have. I will say this, sports fans, over the
course of my life have gotten smarter because there's just
more information. So if you read at an average level,
you know, there's just more stuff out there. Sports betting
is harder, I think because the markets smarter. These young
(10:22):
quarterbacks Hurts and Dak and Caleb and Drake May, they
are so good at the podium. They are they know,
you know, I mean, Caleb's kind of giving you that
sly smile, going, well, you know, I was told it
wasn't gonna work here. He didn't blast anybody, he just
kind of put it out there. I get a little
satisfaction none of that. These guys are not only schooled
(10:44):
in football, they're schooled at the podium, at the Cowherd
school of podium. Put the hat on forward and don't
start forest fires here, like like, bring the cooler, bring
the temperature down. But I thought Caleb a little smile saying, yeah,
I was told it wasn't gonna work. Ever, it takes
for you to be great on Saturday or Sunday. I'm four.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Yeah, easy to smile when you're ridding high and recovering
on sidekicks and getting lucky as heck to be nice.
I had the Bears last week. But you gotta be real,
it's easy when you're eleven and four. Let's see what
some when some adversity hits.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
How that there was a little adversity early in the season.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
But when they get lost to Detroit by thirty maybe yeah, yeah,
I mean there were some operational things they had to
clean up.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I mean it wasn't pretty in the first year one
with Ben Jonson's right. Yeah that's nice. Yeah, that's good stuff.
All right, Greg Cosell fifty minutes from now, can't wait
for that.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter nin a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Pauly Foods Gohea with Tony Foosco.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (11:52):
As everybody knows, we're the hosts of the award winning
Paully and Tony Foodsco Show.
Speaker 8 (11:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
But instead of us telling you how great we are,
here's how Dan Patrick described when he came on our show.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Quick, knowledgeable and funny, opinionated. Bah, what are you doing?
We were interrupting our promo.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah, he wasn't talking about you. You took those clips
totally of context.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Oh yeah, Well, after this promo, I'm gonna take you
out and beat you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Let me put this into context.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Shut up.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
Yeah, anyway, just listen to the Paul and Toni Fusco
Show on iHeartRadio. Apple podcasts oherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yee.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, the Dallas Mavericks beat the Denver Nuggets last night,
surprise surprise. But what's increasingly not becoming a surprise is
that Cooper Flagg had thirty three points. He's nineteen. He
should be checking into his dorm room as a freshman
at Duke. His last ten games twenty four points, six rebounds,
(12:52):
five assists, great defender, fifty three percent from the floor.
I don't want to hear about twenty four year old
Aunt Edwards who didn't want to be the face of
the league, or twenty seven year old Jason Tatum who
wants to be but doesn't have the aura. This is
a kid that, if he wants to be, will be
the face of the league. Talent, Duke, aggressive, mature, grown up.
(13:14):
He's got the ability to do things which Zion and
John Morant did too, but they're still kids. Cooper Flag
is nineteen and on a game with Jokis, Jamal Murray
and ad he leed it in scoring. He should be
a freshman at duke eating lunch with the rest of
(13:36):
the students. So I don't think the NBA needs a
face of the league. I've said that multiple times. I
think it's overrated. Ratings are up this year. They don't
have a face of the league. It wouldn't hurt and
it would be great if it was a Duke kid.
I always said his comp was a much better, more
aggressive Jason Tatum. He's a better defender now than Tatum
was at this age. He's a much more aggressive score
(13:58):
than Tatum was. And I think that agree if thing
be at the Lake, Kobe, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird. The
greats are aggressive. When you got to talk them into
taking over, they can be productive. I don't know if
they're great. So this kid plays with the maturity sadly
that I don't think Zion ever played with, because I
thought Zion had a chance to be the face of
(14:19):
the league. He doesn't force things, but Mann does. He
want the ball in big spots. So it's just you're
looking at and again, the league doesn't need a face
of the league. The ratings are up. If you really
break down the ratings fairly, they're up like nineteen percent.
So and the other thing I like about Cooper Flag
and I see this even in broadcasting, too many guys
(14:42):
are trying to be tough and cool. Kevin Hart talked
about this be smart. Cooper Flag doesn't have to try
to be tough or cool. His talent is both. And
I mean, look at his splits, look at what he
is doing. It took him a month to hatch up
to the NBA physicality and speed. Thirteen a game in
(15:03):
October eighteen, a game in November twenty four, a game
in December. He's nineteen field goal percentage forty one to
fifty three. This is These are massive leaps for a
nineteen year old. Here's Jason Kidd on last night on a.
Speaker 9 (15:22):
Back to back, understanding to his standards, he might not
have played well last night, and so for him to
come and set the tone for us tonight again, he
showed up the stat sheet, almost had a triple double,
but we played through him late and he found the
right guys and executed on both ends of the floor.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
He is he really and again, Jason Tatum sort of
wants to be the face of the league. Very good player,
but I always said I'm not sure he has the
aura Aunt Edwards is like, I don't want to be it.
I'm Cooper flagged just by his game and his aggressiveness.
It does help that he went to do That's why
I thought Zion could be the face of the league.
(16:02):
I thought Duke and Nike really helped him Jet fuel
to be a star by twenty one twenty two, and
Zion had an amazing rookie season. But wait, and injuries,
couldn't stay on the floor. God, this kid's good. This
kid is something else. And j Mack, you and I
loved him at Duke Jmack with.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
A news no, no, turn on the news. This is
the herd Line news.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Yes, indeed we did all right, Colin. We got some
breaking news here. This is just dropping. A huge story
just came out of the Baltimore Sun about Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Now there's a lot to get into here.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
I just buzzed through the story here in the last
ten minutes. But bottom line is it's not good. It's
not good for the future of Lamar Jackson in Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Apparently he wants a new deal.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
Number two years ago, when I wanted the Jets to
grab him, he was having issues with Baltimore. His mom
was negotiating. He wanted the fully guaranteed deal, didn't get it. Well,
he has one more year before the Ravens can kind
of move on from him if they want. But Colin,
some of the quotes in this article are pretty damning.
And this is from a long time credible journalist. Yeah,
(17:10):
a incredible guy that's been around the program. So he's
getting fed this. Yeah, So there are rules. There are
team rules, and there are rules for Lamar Jackson. Once
the Ravens become critical of Jackson, he becomes more withdrawn.
It's clear that coach John Harbaugh has become tired of Jackson. Colin,
Remember we've been talking about it, but I didn't put
the pieces together. It would be like a Wednesday in
(17:32):
October and Lamar's like missing practice, and then he would
miss like a Thursday practice the next week. He's just
like not there all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
How about this one? How about this quote? He doesn't
need to be uplaying playing video games.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I mean, there's part.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Of the article says that he doesn't want to practice
in the morning, so the team practices in the afternoon.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Now is that because of video games?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Hey, sometimes you.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Get you're calling asleep in meetings.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Colin, this is not great. Now, I did look at this.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
His cap hit this year forty three and a half million,
leaps to seventy four and a half million dollars next year.
Twenty four percent of the Raven salary cap is going
to Lamar. They already don't have a good offensive line.
They tried to put pieces together some young guys. None
of it worked. Okay, his base salary goes from twenty
mil to fifty one mill. Hey, Lamar's getting paid great.
(18:23):
I don't know what the future is though. The speculation
at the end of the article is.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Lamar would love to be in Miami.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
We know he's from South Florida or Las Vegas, where
in the article says Tom Brady has a fotness for him.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Oh, both of those guys need quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Hey, this is interesting. This is a fascinating story. If
this stuff is true. He's had injuries. I mean, he's
not as dynamic as he was the first four years
starting that is, and we know he's going to get
less dynamic now. He may be better at the start
of next year. But the truth is, my Kelvick told
(19:00):
me this once. The first three years is one style.
The remaining years after the hits, you're never quite as
good as you were your last year in college, in
your first three years in the NFL. And Michael Vick
has said that he's like, you can't withstand these hits.
That the practice, the hitting, the games, the traveling goes
it just wears you out. So and I'm dead serious
(19:21):
on this. Baltimore has such a great owner, such a
great front office. They had six Pro Bowlers I think
or something like that. They are such an unbelievable organization,
and they have so much equity with fans. And I
am a Lamar Jackson fan, but I could. I would
defend Baltimore if they Miami said, okay, we'll give you
(19:43):
two number ones, you know, and two number two's, and
you moved off him and now for a year, you know,
you're drafting a quarterback with your top pick, I would
defend that. If this is true, two things be true.
I love Lamar, but it is ill because let's be honest,
(20:04):
we know what separates him. It's not the pocket stuff,
although he's always been better than given credit for. It's
the athletic ability. Well, what happens was super athletic NBA guys,
Westbrook page fast. Yeah, remember Jose Rams the Mets baseball
player page fast, Cam Newton aged fast, Stafford Aaron Rodgers
(20:24):
is forty two. You know, he just sits in the pocket.
And Stafford's old Kirk Cousins all that. Philip Rivers is
forty four. He's throw it for three hundred yards. So
if Baltimore said, listen, we've done it, it's a big
cap hit. We think the window for greatness is closed.
If I was Vegas, I'd go for it, and if
I was mine because Miami and Vegas don't have the
(20:47):
standards or to me, the ownership or the infrastructure of
the Ravens. They don't.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
So Colin, right out of the bat, I can tell
you this, the Raiders are going to be drafting one
or two.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
Would they danngle that for Nan Mendoza pick to the
Ravens obviously with more.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Stuff for Lamar Jackson?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Guess what?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Guess it was a quarterback that.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
John Harball had in Baltimore before Lamar, Joe Flacco. You know,
Joe Flecco physically, big pocket guy, big arm.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Why wouldn't they say, hey, let's just.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Reboot with Mendoza Cam Newton's last great year was twenty nine.
You know, old Cam Newton. Twenty nine for Cam Newton.
How old is Lamar next year.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Turns twenty nine in about two weeks?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Okay, so think about that. Bo Nix's cap hit next
year one point seven percent of the Broncos cap. Lamar's
will be twenty four percent. Denver's gonna have six players
on that roster that Baltimore could not afford. By the way,
Caleb Bears cap next year three point six, seven and
(21:47):
a half times lower than Lamar's. That's why the Bears
and the Broncos we've been saying this all year. Look
at their rosters. You could argue there, I mean, there's
like eight elite, nine elite players. Baltimore's got three or four.
So I think if you're Vegas in a week quarterback class,
if you're Vegas or Miami, I would absolutely get on
(22:08):
the phone and defend that. How long does Pete Carroll
want to wait for a college guy to get good?
Speaker 6 (22:12):
I don't know if Pete Carroll's gonna coach Labar, but
somebody would. But I guess the final leg of is
Colin Like we just saw it in the Division. Joe
Burrow also very unhappy playing football. Lamar Jackson very unhappy.
Those guys had awesome runs earlier this Remember Monday, I
said it's over for those guys, their run with their team.
Those teams need to reboot, rebuild, so it's going to
take some time.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Colin, this is a long standing reporter for the Ravens.
What you and I are saying. If this is true,
the Ravens are so well run, with so much equity
from their fans sellout games, is it time to take
phone calls from Vegas and Miami and it is a
week draft. I think it's worth taking. You know, you
(22:55):
and I I've said this before, Jason, at any one
time in the NFL, Well, there's only about six quarterbacks.
I think Herbert's one of them, Josh Allen's one of them.
Mahomes is obviously one of them that a GM doesn't
pick up the phone. There's another six quarterbacks who are
really good, but you would pick up the phone and
(23:15):
listen to the offer, and then there's fifteen you get
on the phone and try to upgrade. Lamar has gone
from that first group if this is true, where you
wouldn't even pick up the phone. He's gone to the
second six, which is I'll take the call and listen.
If this story is true.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Well I don't doubt it at all. And here's the
other problem for Baltimore Colin. It's like, no, no, we'll
just give.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
It one more year. Whoa wait, one more year.
Speaker 6 (23:39):
He's going to be thirty in January of twenty seven,
and then it's like, what's the market for Lamar? You
might just have to sell Hi right now and move on.
I think the Raiders in Mendoza and the Miami Dolphins,
you and I.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Both think this is a legitimate story, very very much so.
So if it is, somebody is feeding this if it is,
and I just think the best way to put it is,
Lamar's gone from six guys that you don't even pick
the phone up to the next six or seven to
eight guys where you're not looking to trade him, but
(24:13):
you'll listen. Yeah, you'll listen.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
John Harball, it's me or Lamar. I don't know anyways,
all right, let's move on. Travis Kelce, Colin and the
Kansas City Chiefs. Very interesting subplot to this Christmas game tomorrow.
It's probably his final game at Arrowhead Andy Reid was
asked about that, and here's what he had to say.
Speaker 10 (24:34):
I don't know if it is or not.
Speaker 11 (24:35):
I haven't talked to him, but I think his numbers
and personality and the person how I think speak for themselves.
Phenomenal person great for the community, has been great for
the community. He's everything you know you want from a
player representing an organization.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
Yeah, I think it's over any Listen, the games tomorrow
aren't awesome. Any action from you on Bronco's Chiefs thirteen
and a half on the road.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Have you seen that Dallas number tomorrow?
Speaker 8 (25:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I already bet Dallas. But I'm looking at this Chiefs gape.
I don't think the Chiefs totally roll over here, do you.
Speaker 9 (25:20):
Well.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I think Denver's in a bad mood so and I
think Denver's looking around at New England. I think Denver
is if they could would pile on a little bit,
little extra touchdown or field goal, I think I actually
think Denver's decide. I think Kansas City can say we're embarrassed,
so what they just don't have the personnel. I think
the Bronco's awful loss with Jacksonville and New England breathing
(25:41):
down their neck. I can see Denver san Fellas. We
got to write the ship here. Let's make not only
a win, let's make a statement. Interesting. Huh.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I need to see Raceie Rice. If all these guys
are going to play, I don't know, Trent McDuffie.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Do they just say, ah, forget it, season's over. Probably
nothing on me for that game. And finally let's go
to the Cliland Browns and Miles Garrett.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
One of the.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
Interesting subplots here is is he going to break the
all times sack record? I don't know, Colin, He's very close.
He's one of the all time great defensive ends. He's
one sack away from the record. A former teammate of
Garrett believes he's the best defensive player ever. He's the
best defensive pass rusher I've ever seen in my entire life.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
And that goes back to watching Reggie White.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
When I was a kid, when he was with the
Green Bay Packers win in a Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And so I think what Miles is doing is amazing.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
And especially when you consider he's doing it on a
team that's not very good.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, that's a good point because the Browns usually trail late,
meaning teams don't throw, so he doesn't get the opportunities
because the Browns usually trail with eight minutes to go.
I think what you can make this argument that Miles
Garrett has moved into a group of the four greatest
defensive players Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Aaron Donald, I mean
(27:04):
unblockable players, and I never thought there was a fourth.
Those were always the three. I mean Aaron Donald. There
is video of Aaron Donald. Think about this J MCT
of Aaron Donald. It is last year being triple team
where your offensive line coach goes. I got five guys,
three of them block Aaron Donald. So Donald, Reggie Lawrence
(27:26):
are the three greatest I've seen now, I think Ed
Reid and Ronnie Lott. I mean, there's been other DJ Sanders,
but JJ Watt is unbelievable and a great broadcaster. By
the way, he's a tremendous broadcaster. But I do think
there's an argument, and maybe JJ Watt was also in this. JJ.
Miles Garrett, you're in like, okay, can we do the
Mount Rushmore thing? Do we have a fourth guy? And
(27:50):
I think there's an argument, Miles Garrett, and he needs
to This is important when you plan a bad team,
you trail late in games. So, Miles Garrett, you know
Dwight Freeney is a very good player. You know, Peyton
Manning and the Colts led eighty percent of their games
with six minutes to go. Dwight Freeney could pit his
(28:11):
ears back and go They're passing. And the league was
not as mobile for quarterbacks, so you knew where the
quarterback was seven steps behind the center. So for Miles
to do this, when you contextualize it, it's really something.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Speaking of not mobile Aaron Rodgers this week, is there
a warl where Aaron Rodgers just lays down to give
Miles Garrett the record?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
He's just such a nice.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
War far did that to Michael Strahan?
Speaker 6 (28:34):
Yes, sir ee, good memory, I think Rogers. I can
totally see that happening coming.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Out of respect. I might have to change, you know,
if Aaron does that, I might have to change my
tune a new chapter in the Aaron book. Yes. Jmack
with the news, Well that's the news, and thanks for
stopping by the.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
There are Greg Cosell Top of the Hour. There's so
many good topics today. I don't know which one to pick.
There's a cowboy topic that's fascinating. You see George Pickens
made the Pro Bowl. Well you're rolling your eyes. Well
he made the Pro Bowl.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Okay, Well, wonderful he made the Pro Bowl.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
Put that on your resume, like, yes, it doesn't enhance
his trade value, Colin.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Well, it's only did they only sign him. He did
a one year deal on year deal, so it's like
sign him franchise tag. So it's really there's very interesting.
It's a very interesting proposition for the Cowboys on George Pickens. Plus,
I like people to have takes. I'm going to take business,
so I'm there's a lot of bad ones, there's a
(29:44):
lot of good ones. But don't ever listen to anybody.
If you have a strong opinion and it's a theory,
it may not work, it's unproven. You go ahead and
have it. But I want to talk Pickens and the
worst take of the year that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
There's some more great football come in your way in
the Trust and Will Holiday Bowl Noah Fafida and Arizona
take on SMU. Don't miss a perennial barn Burner January second,
at seven thirty eastern.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
On Fox, Greg co Sal fifteen minutes. So I am
in the sports opinion business. Don't listen to the old
grumpy gatekeepers, the media critics. You have any opinion you want.
I love when people have theories and they're not even
necessarily going to work out, but it makes me think.
(30:44):
I like anybody that makes me think. But there is
one sports opinion that is just bad and you can't
have it. Even I not an old grumpy gatekeeper, I
will not accept it, which is, you know, Justin Herberts
never won a playoff game. He is overrated. Not acceptable.
(31:06):
So PFF ranked all thirty two offensive supporting casts for
the quarterback, the O line, the running back, the tight end,
the wide receiver. Now at the top, I think we'd
all agree, Rams and Colts and Bears and Bills and
Lions and Seahawks. But look at the bottom. Five awful
(31:27):
teams awful except the Chargers, who are not only not awful,
they're eleven and four. Oh I forgot Justin Herbert's never
won a playoff game. It took Matt Stafford thirteen years
to win a playoff game. I think he's pretty good.
(31:49):
Took Peyton Manning six. I also think he's pretty good.
Justin Herbert this year has been sacked forty nine times.
He has been hit one hundred and twenty one. There's
nobody close to that. He has a broken hand. His
leading rusher has three touchdowns. It's the thirty second ranked
offensive line and they're eleven and four. Oh yeah, but
(32:14):
he he did leave a playoff game and his coach
a disaster, gagged away the second half. So as twenty
and twenty five is coming to a close, you can
have any sports opinion you want. Don't listen to the
critics and the gatekeepers that the fun of sports and
politics is debating. There's nothing better to debate than sports
(32:39):
and politics. Say what you want, have fun, But you
can't say Justin Herbert's overrated after this year. If you want,
Jim Harbaugh's pretty intense. Jim Harbaugh becomes a stand up comic.
I mean, the guy literally can't wipe the smile all
(33:00):
off his face every time he gets asked about what
Justin Herbert's doing this year, and.
Speaker 10 (33:08):
Justin Herbert, he's a superhero.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
He is a competitive maniac.
Speaker 10 (33:14):
There's something in his competitive fire almost it motivates him
even more. Justin Herbert pack to throw just a mighty man. Yeah,
I'm gonna remember that playing so they throw dirt over
top of me. There's almost some about him as far
as quarterback performances go. That was a Picasso. It felt
(33:34):
like like I was in a movie. Like we were
in a movie where you know, the quarterback's doing these
and it's like you get to the point where we go, Okay,
this is getting a little unrealistic. I do have an
update on his physical status. He's still a beast.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
I mean, it's it is unbelievable. Thirty second ranked offensive
line backups to backups eleven and four, broken hand leading
Russia as six hundred and thirty five yards and three
touchdowns eleven and four. He's gotten the you know what
kicked out of him every Sunday. I mean last week
(34:14):
he didn't get sacked. I mean it must have felt
like a weird out of body experience. He didn't take
a helmet to the throat last week. Can't have that,
sports opinion, at least not after watching this year. Can't
not acceptable. Okay. So George Pickens, Dallas receiver, made the
Pro Bowl. And I really do think the difference between
(34:39):
like a great GM and a good GM and an
average GM. A lot of times do you understand the
difference between talent. There's a lot of talent and pro
sports and foundational players. Tim Duncan's a foundational player. Zach
Levine's talented. Okay, I would argue George Pickens is not
(35:00):
a foundational player. And you got him for a third
round pick and he made a Pro Bowl. Don't get greedy.
He's not a foundational piece. Okay. Dallas already has cd
lamb Ryan Flornoy is becoming really good, really fast, and
Pickens is starting to exhibit certain personality qualities that you
(35:25):
thought Georgia and Pittsburgh kind of disappears. So again, ninety
percent of NFL players, and I'm talking about the good
players are not foundational pieces. There are very I've said,
and when it comes to the NFL, pay huge money
very infrequently. Josh Allen, whatever, Mahomes whatever, you know. It
(35:48):
looks like Drake May is one of those you pay whatever. Okay.
Caleb Williams keeps doing this. Yeah, you don't pick up
the phone, you pay whatever. But the talented guys, in fact,
even the Pro bowlers are not foundational. Miles Garrett's foundational. Okay,
(36:09):
Panay Sueanay suell that that's foundational, you know, and you say, well,
he's just right tackle No, No, that's foundational. Okay, Miles Garrett's foundational.
Tyreek Hill people thought was, but the Chiefs knew better.
They won two Super Bowls without him. Miami didn't win
a playoff game with him. So, I mean, the best
(36:34):
GM in the league arguably is John Snyder and Seattle
moved off DK Metcalf. Seattle is vying for the number
one seed without him. Yeah, without him, he was not
a foundational player. Js N feels like that's a foundational player,
runs the route tree, great hands, doesn't matter the defense,
(36:58):
mature leader, JSN fields, and there's not. Jamar Chase is foundational.
Tyreek Hill's talented. Well, what's the difference? Consistency maturity, getting
along with your quarterback and your coach, not throwing people
under the bus. I'll tell you. Pooka Nakua had a
bad couple of weeks. Dude, A little less live streaming,
(37:20):
little more leadership. Okay, I know it's a fine line,
but I think there's an argument with floor Noy becoming
a real go to guy. Pigs get fed, Hoggs gets slaughtered.
Isn't that what they always say on Wall Street, Like
you got this stock for almost nothing, it doubled or
tripled in price. Maybe now's the cell time And that's
(37:43):
not a knock. I am not in any way saying
George isn't a remarkable player. I mean, like seven games in,
I'm like, oh my god, I think you have to
resign him. I know there's the temper stuff. I know that,
I think, but you let stuff play out. These are
long seasons. The weather gets cold, the practices get hard,
players get dinged up, the real truth comes out. We
(38:04):
had that Lamar Jackson story, you know, twenty five minutes ago.
You know, is more information comes out, you have different opinions.
That's what adults do. So I don't know. I I
think I was. I'm watching the Cowboys the last couple
of weeks and I'm like, where'd George go? And I
think Dallas knows it, because if you noticed, it feels
(38:25):
like they're making Florin Oi a bigger part of the
game plan. That's what it feels like to me. Here's
pickings on his Pro Bowl.
Speaker 8 (38:35):
It definitely improves as far as like a career, as
far as like contractually wise, like you said, I can
just just wait till all season.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Definitely.
Speaker 8 (38:42):
Like I always said, the guys here I feel like
you can't get And that's why I always say that,
because you cannot get that everywhere. I kind of been
at other places top thirty visits when I was coming
on in a pre draft. The guys here is just in.
The culture here is just a little different.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
So it's interesting. There was an NFL trade. Jmack was
highly critical of it when the Colts gave up two
firsts for Sauce Gardener, and I text, I text a
GM that I trust, and he said his take was
two firsts is a foundational player. Sauce Gardner is a
talented player, He's not a foundational player. Now, Chris Ballard
(39:18):
obviously disagrees with that. When you give up multiple firsts
like Matt Stafford, that's a foundational player, right right right.
I always thought Calvin Johnson, the maturity, the size, the consistency,
the physicality. That's a found that you can build for
ten years around him. Gets along with coaches. Randy Moss
is talented, but he could struggle sometimes with you know,
(39:39):
some of the relationship stuff. He get frustrated. I love
Stefon Diggs, but again, over time he's gotten frustrated. It fits,
it doesn't fit. There are very few guys in pro.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Sports quarterbacks and maybe some left tackles.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Interback, left tackle. A handful of Max Crosby. I'm not
trading Max Crosby. I'm not I'm not trading Miles Garrett,
Jared versu Is becoming a star player. There are a
handful of guys you look at and you're like, Okay,
that's just not I'm not but a guy. Last week,
Abdul Carter of the Giants, unbelievable talent. He's missed meetings,
he lined up offside, the Giants had a defensive touchdown
(40:17):
taken away. So you're already as a rookie to me
telling me signs you're just a talented guy. You're not
a foundational piece guy. Michael Strahan foundational. You got consistency,
you got the maturity, you've got the respect in the
locker room. So no, it's not a criticism. Very few
(40:37):
great players are guys you're like, let's sign him for
eight years. I mean, if be like a baseball contract,
we'll give you four to five years. There's no doubts
in the room.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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