Roundtable Discussion #2

Payne and the High Strange producers Mike and Dylan are back with some UFO updates and a special announcement. 🛸

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
High Strange is an eight part series. If you'd like
to bene the whole series right now ad free, you
can subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus on Apple podcasts. Hey it's
pain here. We have some really exciting updates for you.
The UFO story has not gotten any smaller or quieter.
It's gotten a little bit louder.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
We think.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
We have some special guests, some new stories you probably
haven't heard yet, and a very special announcement about the
future of High Strange. But what you can do right now,
and I highly suggest you do, is go listen to
a new interview that we did with a man named
Jeremy Corbel. It's available on my weekly podcast, Talking to Death.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
It's out right now.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Just go search Talking to Death on your podcast app
and look for the most recent episode with Jeremy Corbel.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
And I promise you it's worth it. Thanks y'all.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Go.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's a good song. And he's out of jail now,
is he he is?

Speaker 4 (01:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:11):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Gun it yeah yeah. Well it's like when did Metro.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Go to jail? Okay, we're back, we're back. We're back.
It's been a minute. Yeah, we're out.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Of jail, Out of jail, straight to space.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
That's yeah, that's why it took so long. We've been
in jail this whole time. No, we've been in podcast
jail making other podcasts. But trust me when I say
we have never stopped thinking about High Strange because it's
one of the most fun shows I think I've ever
worked on. Now we're back here because one, we've missed you.
Two we've really never stopped talking, thinking about, or researching

(01:47):
or researching investigating UFO phenomenon since we since episode eight
of High Strange. And we've done a couple of different
things since then, and we wanted to give you another
roundtable episode because it's been so long. A lot's happened
since we left off. I feel like a year ago,

(02:08):
which is about a year ago now, almost when the
podcast first came out. I've let the conversations evolved even
more further past that in a good way, in terms
of people just being open to the concept of, hey,
maybe there's stuff going on that we don't fully understand
and it's okay to look into it.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
I mean, I can honestly say that since High Strange ended,
I have looked, I have researched more than I did
during the production of High Strange into UFOs, into Aliens,
into Nhi. I am obsessed beyond what I was before.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Dylan was already obsessed.

Speaker 6 (02:47):
I think I'll always be obsessed. Yeah, if any of
you could see our text chain for the last eight
months since we last made this, nothing you would ever
listen to us.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Nothing gets right. It's just all conspiracy, all credit this show.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
No no, but nothing gets through the cracks. Nothing slips
through the cracks.

Speaker 5 (03:04):
We see it all.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
We've seen everything. You think that you need to email.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
To us, we have seen it, right, Or if you're
just a casual listener, you're like, what the hell are
you talking about?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Man, tell me something right?

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Okay, that's fair too, because I'm also I'm kind of
more in that camp sometimes as well, where you guys
send me this stuff. And there's been some big news stories.
I think the biggest thing that's happened since the release
of High Strange was this kind of legendary congressional hearing
and last minute Dylan and I decided to take a

(03:36):
flight to DC and go to this thing. Wanted to
set up what was actually going on that day, just
like like for those who didn't know this happened, there
was a big congressional hearing about UFOs and we went
to go see these people speak in front of congress.

Speaker 5 (03:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (03:58):
So, you know, I got the call from pay late one.
It was probably eight pm one night.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
We had like an hour to get there.

Speaker 6 (04:05):
Yeah, and he just he calls me. He's like, we're
gonna go. I don't own a suit because I'm a child,
but apparently you need a You need a suit, you
are a child. Yeah, you should, I should own a suit.
It's thirty two.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well I have, like I have won suit, you know,
and you looked good at it.

Speaker 6 (04:18):
Let me see.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Oh well thank you looked real small. Oh gosh, I
can't I can't repeat it.

Speaker 6 (04:23):
Yeah, but we, uh we get there, you and your suit,
me and just my everyday close. Luckily they still let
me in, which is nice. But we get there, you know,
not really knowing what to expect, and we get sent
into this this room next to the Congressional hall where
the meeting's actually taking place, and it's just full of
other call them nerds. I was gonna say alien enthusiasts,

(04:44):
but let's call them for what they are. They're nerds.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Nerds.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
We were there too. We're like Oh, make god, we
dressed up nice for this.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
I wanted to go so bad. I was so jealous.

Speaker 6 (04:51):
Yeah, it was an experience. It was a once in
a lifetime experience.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
There were so many people at this random hearing on
like a Tuesday or something, that there was a billover
room for press because the actual congressional room was too
full for anyone else to attend in there, and so
we were in. At first, I was kind of bummed
to go, oh, man, I wanted to be in the
actual room where they're doing this. But it actually turned

(05:17):
out to be a cooler experience, I think because we
had a live feed from the room right next door,
so we could hear it and see it. But there
was way less Uh, there was there was.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Less rules in this room. I'd like to say it
was it was the back of the class.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
It was the back of the class. People were clapping.
It was this surreal thing, like people talk about the
idea of disclosure right where, you know, eventually one day
the government comes out and says, hey, here's what's really
going on, and there's all these species of aliens or
we had these craft.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
You know, I don't think it's ever going to happen
that way. It'd be cool if it did.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
But it felt like a closure, a moment where you
were maybe I was just too excited, but it felt
like in the moment I was witnessing something that was
like legendary.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
I think I think it's historical. I think I think
Rush will be in textbooks.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, let's talk about Grush, because if you don't know
who David Grush, who's really the main person who was
testifying before Congress. Let's talk about who David Grush is
and what he was even saying.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
What was your favorite thing he said in the Congression?

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well, okay, I remember you showing me that this guy
was about to come out. There was a whistleblower from
the government who was coming out with some big bombshell information.
And then they dropped this interview with Ross Colehart, this
journalist from News Nation, and we watched it at the
same time. Think we were in Denver or something. Yeah,

(06:49):
and you got me hyped on it, and he was
saying stuff that was absolutely bunkers crazy sounding, because you've
never heard really many people of that level of the
darn say something like that.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
That's the thing. It's you've You've heard crazier claims than this.
Everyone has. Everyone's heard some crazy shit from some UFO
guy who's like, yo, the aliens, I'm talking to him
in my head from my bedroom. I can call UFOs
to my house, my backyard. We've all heard that. Ye,
if you've looked into this at all, you've heard the

(07:24):
crazy stuff. But this guy. The crazy thing about this
is he was saying some of the crazy shit, but
his credentials check out. He's like legit, top clearance, like
big deal counterintelligence guy came from like working on big missions.
Not a dumb dumb, Not a dumb dumb. This guy

(07:45):
isn't some guy. I'm probably saying this wrong, but I
think he was about to be promoted to like lieutenant colonel,
which is like super high up in the military. Like,
this guy is not a joke. He's not some crazy person.
But Grusha's like almost bulletproof.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Like this guy's like legit, like a good guy for it.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
He was briefing Obama on counterintelligence measures like that. They
don't get that responsibility doesn't go to it.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Doesn't adding on their face.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
If this guy is completely has completely lost his mind,
but somehow still sounds completely same when he's talking like,
let's just run down bullet point some of the biggest
claims that David Grush made to Congress.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Can I start with my favorite one? Yes, Mussolini and
this is no one's gonna believe this casual Listen, great start,
I'm sorry. Mussolini, his Italia recovered a UFO in nineteen
thirty three, and he's like saying this, like this is fact,

(08:51):
Like the US government or whatever, this this special access program, whatever,
this black project is, knows about this recovery in nineteen
thirty three under Mussolini.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
And this is part of some bigger idea here where
he's basically saying that for decades now, the government has
had this secret program, a crash retreat, like a crash
a UFO crash retrieval program where UAP have allegedly crashed

(09:23):
on Earth and the US has scooped them up and
tinkered with them and tried to figure out how they
work and kept all this stuff a secret.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
It even goes beyond that.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
And this predates Roswell, which is the craziest.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Rosseld is forty seven. You know, the.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Biggest theory that I've always followed and always believed in
is that we set off nuclear bomb tests in like
nineteen forty six and forty seven. I don't I don't
remember the exact date. You can look it up. It's
on Wikipedia. It's Trinity test. We set off the bomb,
the nuclear bomb test, and they came right. No, this
predates this, This is nineteen thirty three. This is before so

(10:03):
all that, like they're attracted to nuclear bombs, which they
probably are, and nuclear energy and whatever, but this predates this.
This is this is something before that. And what I
think he's implied is that it's even older than that
m hm, which I think I've I've thought for a
while now, but.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Either, I mean, they're huge claims that go for generations.
Like basically, he's alleging that there is this black program,
this hidden secret program that's that Congress and even the
President most of the time, if not damn near all
the time, is not privy to where they are keeping

(10:47):
the secret that we know extratrustural life not only exists,
but has been here and maybe even is here, and
we have crafts. And the way he phrases it is biologics.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Non human intelligence.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Biologics of non human intelligence, meaning.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Cadavers insanity and you can look past that though, like that,
you can sure dismiss that.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Go ahead in all the services. This sounds you know,
it sounds nuts, right.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
But what did he do? He got in a congressional hearing.
He got both sides of the spectrum, both sides of
the parties, both parties to agree. You got AOC, You
got what's his name, Matt Gates. Matt Gates and AOC
both like.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
And this goes into Brian Bender's whole first article that
he wrote about this in twenty seventeen where he's like, Okay,
where is all this money going? Right, that's the real issue.
This is taxpayer money going somewhere else that it's hidden.
AOC is like, whoa, Okay, I don't care about the
alien stuff, but like what I gathered from her Congressional

(12:01):
Oversight Committee testimony and questioning is where is this money
that the taxpayers are putting in? Why is this going
to some secret private entity, no matter what it is, right, yeah, yeah,
it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter what it's for. This
is a problem.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
And then you got Matt Gates kind of saying the
same thing. Yeah, got both sides of the writer or
blue kind of coming together on this being like, yo,
we need to dig further into this sentence freaking out
about this a little bit, at least some of them.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
If you remember back to Highest Trained season one, we
featured two journalists pretty prominently, Leslie Kane and Brian Bender,
and they would chime in kind of throughout the whole
series with great insight on different details and aspects and
just a little historical factoids about the UFO story in

(12:52):
American culture. They were also two of the journalists who
broke a really big story years ago that kind of
blew the lid off of this conversation in the mainstream
with the New York Times and Political And we met
with Leslie Kane a couple of times, and she always

(13:14):
sort of kind of hinted at there being some other
big thing coming, which is what every UFO person does.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Ever, I feel like, but I believed it.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
This time you talked to the right person. I think
you do know more.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
And sure enough, though she's the first person to technically
break this David Grush story, the guy who came out
with these big claims about this secret government project going on.
And yeah, and so we actually talked to Brian Bender
again recently and gracious for his time, just to kind

(13:48):
of catch up on what's all happened since then. And
I always enjoyed the way that he pragmatically broke things down,
and it wasn't always as it's He didn't always make
it about aliens, right, And maybe it is aliens and
it's the way that we think that they are. Maybe
it is, and it's all these other dozens of things

(14:10):
or thousands of things too. Maybe it's none of that,
and we don't understand it either way. If there's something
that we don't understand, I think that it's worth looking into.
And he always had that sort of pragmatic, practical approach
to it, which I really found refreshing. And so catching
up with him was fun. And we're gonna play some
clips of that for you guys in a little bit.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah. No, I really appreciate Brian, and I think I
really love that he's mostly skeptical, even though he's he's
heard some stuff. He's heard some stuff that I haven't
even heard.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, hearing is not seeing.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
It's what you want David Grush to come forward with,
is physical video evidence, evidence, physical something you can see analyze. Now,
you couldn't really ask for a more credible guy, right,
a more credible person. No, but again, it's just you're

(15:08):
going on somebody's word, and so that's a that's a
big leap. And with claims this big, this new to
us as a society, I think that it's only fair
to be met with a little bit of scrutiny. But
what if he's telling the damn truth? Oh if he could.

(15:28):
I don't know if he is or not, but I
will say this, he's pretty fucking believable. I mean he's
not he's good at it.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
I guarantee you. If he could walk out on stage
in on the News Nation interview and be like, hey, Ross,
I brought a sample of a craft and it's metal
that we've never seen before, he would do that. He
just can't. You know, he's gotta he's gotta go through
the Dopster process. He's got to get things cleared. Anything

(15:58):
he talks about in public or on media, it has
to be approved first.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
So what this process you're talking about?

Speaker 1 (16:05):
This is where he could get in trouble for divulging
I guess top secretmation. Yeah, how does that work?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Exactly? From how you know it, Like, so, what was
he afraid of?

Speaker 3 (16:15):
So it's the it's weird, but it's I've only learned
this semi recently since High Strange ended, episode eight ended.
I've learned this afterwards because honestly, after our season ended,
so much stuff happened and I really had to dive
deep into this topic and be like, okay, wait, this
is actually moving forward in a weird way I didn't expect,

(16:38):
and almost in a synchronistic way. So with the dopster thing,
basically he has to get approval from his higher ups.
He's no longer working with them, he's no longer part
of the military in any way I don't believe. But
he has to go to the ic IG, which is
the yeah yeah, yeah yeah, So it's with his higher up.

(16:59):
It's in basically, just think an intelligence leader, right, the
leader of the intelligence.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
To get permission, yeah or so.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
And the DOPSER stands for Defense Office of pre Publication
and Security Review because he has the highest clearance level.
And that's the thing. There's all these myths about how
many clearance levels there are. So he has the highest
level of security clearance. So he's trusted with the biggest
secrets in our nation, right in amongst our nation. It

(17:29):
has to be cleared because he was a former employee, right.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
These guys are trying to not go to jail basically, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Because if they release some classified information to the general
public that is like treason.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, whether the UFO part of it is true or not.
If you divulge that, then you're going to jail.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
If you accidentally give away a missile system that we
don't want our enemies to go about, some censor development
that we've figured out that China or Russia, Iran doesn't
know or doesn't have access to you. It's for national security.
I get it. It's classified information. You have to get
stuff approved before you can talk about it. But he

(18:10):
before his congressional hearing, he did adopts her, got it cleared.
Everything he talked about to news Nation in front of
congressional hearing, Yeah, was cleared.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
And he's being very careful, but he could tell that
he was, you know, he had just prepped himself on
the scope of what he knew he could legally talk about.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Or that's how it came across. At least.

Speaker 6 (18:32):
Yeah, they're saying it. It doesn't go against National Defense.
To say anything that's in this brief, it doesn't necessarily
mean it's true, but you're just allowed to talk about it.
Doesn't interfere with what we're doing.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
Right.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
I got a chance to talk to Brian Bender about
David Grush and this congressional hearing that Dylan and I
got to attend in person, and because he's smarter than
I am, he more eloquently breaks down some of the
big key points of what David Grush was actually claiming.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
And when you.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Analyze it, it's it's some pretty big stuff.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Let's kick to it real quick.

Speaker 5 (19:12):
Brian.

Speaker 7 (19:12):
How you been, man?

Speaker 5 (19:14):
I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 7 (19:16):
What's the latest in your world of journalism?

Speaker 5 (19:21):
So?

Speaker 8 (19:21):
Well, you know, I sometimes joke that I'm now a
recovering journalist. So about a year ago I left journalism
as a sort of daily full time reporter and editor.
After I hate to admit it, but twenty for almost
twenty five years, and I'm still writing. I'm still reporting,

(19:41):
but I have a different day job where I'm now
basically a Beltway bandit as they call it. So I'm
a communications consultant, mostly helping tech startups and research universities
navigate the federal government, so helping them tell their stories.

(20:02):
And but I'm still writing, I'm still reporting. I'm a
contributor to Political magazine, so working on a couple of
sort of bigger projects for them. Uh so, you know,
keeping busy, but a little bit of a different audience,
but a lot of the same topics, national security, global affairs, politics,

(20:24):
once in a while, UFOs, right, if I strip it,
if I trip and fall into the rabbit hole.

Speaker 7 (20:31):
I just realized before we hopped on this call that
the first time we talked was in Roswell, New Mexico
at that event.

Speaker 5 (20:42):
And I never really.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Asked you, I don't think, or at least it wasn't
in the podcast, what your thoughts on that was? I mean,
because it was for me, it was like, this is
totally bizarre. Also, Roswell, New Mexico doesn't does not have
enough restaurants. But but Applebee's was really.

Speaker 8 (21:01):
And that giant alien outside the Duncan Donuts to make
it clear, it was a statue of an alien, not
a real alien. You know, it's interesting, you know when
I kind of stumbled into the UFO story in twenty seventeen,
when I was part of that group of reporters initially

(21:22):
got some inside information about some Pentagon research programs that
had been going on that had been kind of secretly
funded by Congress in recent years.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
I kind of pretty quickly made this this determination that
I'm going to follow the money. So if the government's
spending money on UFO research.

Speaker 8 (21:46):
Who's it going to, what's it for? Who are the
key decision makers in Washington that are behind it. Because
I was a political reporter, I mean, to me, that
was the story for us.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
It's like, Okay, this is this is the political story.
It's a policy story.

Speaker 8 (22:01):
People are really concerned about things that are out there,
and I identified some of which seemed to defy what
we know about physics, and I decided that I was
not going to sort of go too far down the
rabbit hole of like sightings and reports and testimonies, because
obviously there's this whole cannon of ufology that you know,

(22:24):
I once used to I once set on a panel
that you know, I covered a little bit of the
JFK assassination in terms of like the fight over the
government files that we're still being withheld.

Speaker 5 (22:35):
And I used to think that was like a ball
of yarn, But I hadn't met the world of ufology yet.
It makes this cha assassination crowd look, you know exactly,
but you know what, you know, my takeaway from Roswell
and others is sort of like if UFO research could

(22:56):
sort of start now and go forward and throw away
all the stuff in the past, I think we could
be more effective at actually finding some answers to some
of these mysteries because just the level of scar tissue
that exists in the.

Speaker 8 (23:13):
Different viewpoints on you know, was Roswell an alien crash,
was it, you know, some military test? Was it a
cover up? What happened there? I mean, it's just it's
like it's almost impossible for a journalist in modern day
to untangle that mythology versus fact.

Speaker 5 (23:37):
And you know, you saw that on display in Roswell.

Speaker 8 (23:40):
I mean I went to one of the panels, was like,
you know, there's a lot of people on the panel.
It was like forty white guys lined up all over
the age of seventy and like they had like each
of them had two different theories about what happened there. Right,
they were adamant about it. You know, I mean, obviously
I'm exaggerating a little bit. But you know, the journalist

(24:02):
to me was like, I wouldn't even know how to
write this story, right, No matter is there write the
story of Roswell Bender.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
I mean, I'd be like, I don't even know where
to start. But it's not on like religion.

Speaker 8 (24:11):
I mean, some people have their own sort of little
lane in the world of ufology that they believe, and
many of them have read millions of books and done
all kinds of independent research, and they believe it as
if it's gospel, and it's like nothing is going to
change your mind. There's pretty widespread belief or kind of

(24:33):
gut feeling that we are not alone in the universe
as an intelligent species. Whatever species might mean, you know,
elsewhere in the universe could mean something very different than
what we think of. And I think you could also
go a step further and say there's a decent amount
of evidence, certainly circumstantial.

Speaker 5 (24:54):
It's not even more than that that they actually do
exist somewhere in some way, because I mean it's hard to.

Speaker 8 (25:04):
Look back over history and even in ancient religions, I mean,
so many references to some sort of heavenly beings coming here,
you know, having some sort of role certainly in our
sense of ourselves as a human race.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
And I tend to be among those who.

Speaker 8 (25:28):
Believe that, you know, whether smoke, there's fire, there probably
is something that.

Speaker 5 (25:35):
Fits that description somewhere in the universe, far away or
maybe not so far away.

Speaker 8 (25:43):
But then the second bucket I sort of think about
is and this gets into some of the reporting that
I was involved in, you know, the question of whether
our government or governments of the world have some really
solid answers to that question, or evidence of that that
they've been hiding from us. I consider those sort of

(26:06):
two different lanes, if you will, because I think you
can believe that there are aliens, or there are extraterrestrials
or some sort of form of intelligent life that for
whatever reason we can't kind of put our finger on
in a sort of convincing way where everybody's like, oh, yeah,
of course they're here or they've been here. And I,

(26:29):
you know, I'm in that camp, but I'm not yet convinced,
like many people in the world of youthology, are that
the evidence of that, the proof of that is somehow
resident in some secret government agency or buried under Area
fifty one and in the grandest conspiracy of all time.

(26:50):
The US government, presumably in cohoots with other governments in
the world, has kept that hidden from the global pump.
I don't think that there's evidence of that.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
I would imagine that even though it's been on UFO,
Twitter and shit on a bunch of front page everything
all over the news circuit, some people have probably been
living under a rock or just haven't heard about this yet.
So to speak to them, just give me a little
like short recap log line on.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
Yeah, David Grush, who are we talking about? So?

Speaker 8 (27:23):
David Grush is a now former intelligence official. He worked
for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency n GA, which is
sort of one of the alphabet soup intelligence agencies really
responsible for like you know, using space to map the Earth.
But he was part of this Pentagon task Force that

(27:45):
was set up by Congress a couple of years ago
to you know, basically answer some of these questions like
were there secret government programs that might know about, you know,
extraterrestrial crashes, Were there are programs that could have been
verse engineered where we learned some new technology from something
that we recovered that we couldn't explain. So David Grush

(28:07):
was part of that effort. Last year, he came forward
publicly and also filed a request for an investigation through
the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community, which is sort
of like the internal watchdog over all the spy agencies.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
And his claims are that he talked to dozens of
people on the inside with clearances like himself, who assert
that the government did in fact have in its custody
at some point UFO crash material and that there was
an actual secret program to figure out how does that
stuff work. He's made those claims publicly, he's testified before Congress.

(28:48):
But he is the first to say that none of
the some forty people that he says he talked to
on the inside, or or you know, people that had
real knowledge, does he have firsthand knowledge himself. In other words,
he's never seen anything. He's never worked on such a program.
He's hearing this from people who swear that this is

(29:11):
the case.

Speaker 8 (29:12):
And when I say, I don't think there's evidence of
these claims, you know, we don't know what these secret
programs were, we don't know where they were run, we
don't know how they were hidden. Now granted, they could
all be secret deeply classified, and so that's why we
don't know. But I also think we have to consider

(29:34):
that one of the most common things humans do. You
and I do it probably all the time in our
daily lives, is play the game of telephone, which is
I talked to somebody who knows my brother in law
who works in the Secret Agency, who saw the alien
bodies in the area fifty one. I have found in
my reporting and getting to know some of the leading people,

(29:58):
particularly former government officials, who really believe this.

Speaker 5 (30:00):
Who again will say I never sought myself.

Speaker 8 (30:05):
That they have fallen victim to a little bit of
a game of telephone. It has gone on for decades,
you know, sort of the water cooler talk, even at
the CIA or at the Pentagon, where people hear these stories,
and they.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
Hear them from people that are quite credible. I mean,
they have security clearances, they're entrusted with our nation's secrets.
But you know, I do think there is an element
of this of sort of this echo chamber, if you will,
that this is true, and it's always been true, and
it's always been hidden, and I talk to the people
who know about it, but yet we still haven't seen

(30:43):
the goods and you know, and people say, well, if
it's secret, why would we see the goods?

Speaker 8 (30:47):
Right, how would the government you know, bring itself to
ever let us know? And my rejoinder to that is
we get a lot of.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
Secrets to get leaked out of the government, tons of them, to.

Speaker 8 (30:58):
The point where they put people in jail for the
rest of their lives.

Speaker 5 (31:02):
Right leaking stuff. So, if you know there was this
grand conspiracy to hide evidence, real evidence of alien.

Speaker 8 (31:09):
Life, why have we not been able to figure it out?
And you know, why haven't we been able to see
the evidence. I'm not ruling out that it's possible that
that has happened.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
Those programs did exist, there was a UFO crash. I'm
just saying I'm not I'm just not convinced.

Speaker 8 (31:29):
Yet that that's the case, even though there's this whole
sort of cultural phenomenon surrounding this that almost takes it
as gospel.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
You know. You know, we watch a lot of Hollywood
movies that that you know, underscore that, and I think,
you know.

Speaker 8 (31:46):
It's a cultural issue as much as it is a
sort of you know, national security issue.

Speaker 5 (31:52):
Right. We believe what we believe, and doesn't matter really
what the facts are or the truth is, and I
think we can't rule out that some government people have
been have fallen victim to that too.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Back to the claims that he's made, do you mind
kind of untacking a few of those, And he mentioned
some sort of biologics, crafts, and I mean alleging that
aliens are real. We've seen the bodies, have the bodies,
and we have crafts, and it's just all the things
that Steven Spielberg wanted it to be.

Speaker 8 (32:26):
Right, Yeah, I mean he's basically his claims are that
the government has hidden for decades secret programs that have
known about When he says biologics like literally like biological materials,
alien bodies or parts of alien bodies, also alien technology,

(32:47):
and that there were programs, you know, to secretly try
and understand how how does this stuff work?

Speaker 5 (32:55):
So that's the reverse.

Speaker 8 (32:56):
Engineering program that he claims or programs, any claims that
these were hidden from even the highest levels of the government,
that they were sort ofly buried in kind of the
military industrial complex. And I say that because these claims
also assert a role for defense companies, aerospace companies, the

(33:17):
lockeed Martins or the North of Grumman's not then necessarily specifically,
but the companies that had made the stealth bombers and
all of those secret programs that you know were being
developed for decades and in some cases were actually mistook
for UFOs, right. I mean they were testing these things
out in the desert, stealth bombers and drones and all
those things. I mean, those things were being developed in

(33:39):
secret for years, and I think it's important to sort
of remember that because when you talk about secret alien technology,
and if you're one who believes that the government does
have it or has been working with something like that,
you can't really divorce it from the other nether world
of black programs. So billions of taxpayer dollars that have

(34:00):
gone into develop next generation technology like the stealth fighter,
the stealth bomber, you know, hypersonic missiles. I mean that
budget has got up and up and up and up.
We don't know kind of within it, but we know
the overall numbers, and so there's a lot of secret
technology development going on as we speak. Doesn't necessarily mean
it has any relationship or connection to you know, ekey

(34:24):
or alien technology, but if there were to be alien
technology that we recovered or studied or something and somehow
learned something that got led into some of those black programs.
It's all the more reason for the government not to
want to talk about it, to want to cover it up.
But you know, you mentioned the House a recent House hearing,

(34:47):
and the former pilots, you know, I think their testimony
for me also fits into that first bucket I mentioned earlier.
In other words, you know, David Grush, the whistleblower. Since
the government is hiding all this stuff, but it's hard
to dismiss those sightings of those navy pilots in their

(35:10):
testimony and what they say they saw as.

Speaker 5 (35:13):
Real evidence of something really woo woo and really out there,
really advanced. And you know, if they're.

Speaker 8 (35:21):
Not ours, and the government has said that that some
of those things, those orbs, those spears, they call them
tic TACs. They were like oblong shaped craft that you know,
would go from one hundred thousand feet to the surface
of the ocean in like a few seconds.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
Nothing that we could do. The government said they're not ours.

Speaker 8 (35:42):
And so the government is on the record saying that
we're seeing stuff out there that we can't explain, and
we're trying to explain it. But again that's different from
the government already knows what these things are and it's
just lying to us and you know, figured out all
the answers.

Speaker 5 (36:01):
I think a lot of their reluctance to talk about
the UFO issue is not because they have knowledge they
don't want to share. It's because of the lack of knowledge.

Speaker 8 (36:10):
In other words, they know there's something out there and
they can't really figure out what it is.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
And if you're in the intelligence business, you don't share secrets,
but you also don't share information that you have that you.

Speaker 8 (36:23):
Haven't really put together yet either because you wouldn't want,
you know, your potential enemies to know that. So I
do think that, you know, the pilot's coming forward, it's
really changed the conversation, and it made it a sort
of more serious topic, like if we don't know what
these things are, we damn well better find out. But

(36:43):
you know, it's still it's still intriguing to me the
possibility that there is there has been secret programs within
our government that do know more and are not sharing more,
And that to me, obviously would be huge story in
and of itself, but it's also a huge story for

(37:05):
our democracy. Because it would also be proof of a
government within a government, because you have the House of
Representative saying, tell us what you know. We have the
head of the Pentagon saying, we don't know, but we're
trying to find out. But meanwhile, you would have some
sort of you know, nether world of government officials or

(37:25):
contractors that sort of have all these goods, and even
the leadership that we've elected to sort of oversee them
are in the dark. So, like, you know, it's a
good story that we have to keep tracking because of
the implications of it if it were to be true,
you know, not just what it would mean for you know,
our presence in the universe, if we really did have

(37:47):
evidence anew of another intelligent life form, but you know
what it would mean for you know, our politics, that
we sat on this for years and they were able
to hide it even from the people that are supposed
to know all the secrets.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
One more thing before I let you go, there is
a video circulating on the internet that came out.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
A few days ago.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
It's a UFO video, an alleged UFHO video from the military,
and it's being referred to as the Jellyfish.

Speaker 7 (38:19):
Have you seen this video. What are your thoughts on that?
That was Corbel?

Speaker 8 (38:24):
Yeah, Jeremy Corbel is sort of kind of been a
leader in you know, sort of plopping into the public
discussion some really intriguing footage of things that you know,
come out of the military or some government agency. He
obviously had some sources that leads that stuff to him.
But the thing that's always puzzling to me is like

(38:46):
it's always usually it's a very small, peny, little clip, yeah,
and I'm always saying, where's the rest of it?

Speaker 5 (38:54):
They just look at it for three seconds or three hours?
And I was familiar.

Speaker 8 (39:01):
I had heard about the jellyfish a couple of years ago,
like this sort of was going around like, oh, the
Pentagon got you know, custody of some radar footage or
done camera footage.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
I forget was of this jellyfish, of this very large tentacled.

Speaker 8 (39:24):
There was another one, I think it was a different
one people called the chandelier that looked like a big
chandelier hanging over the Persian Gulf in the Middle East.
You know, pilots were seeing it and reporting it. They're intriguing,
but taking in isolation, they don't really get us very far,
it's like it's exciting, it's clickbait, you know people.

Speaker 5 (39:47):
You know, obviously, I.

Speaker 8 (39:48):
Understand why Jeremy Corbel wants to put these out there.
It's great for his website, it's great for his brand.
But in the grand scheme of things, is it really
moving the ball. It's just like it's just like another
shiny object, literally, like, let's look at that for five minutes.
And you know, I think the next chapter in this

(40:10):
if you want to go back to that or sort
of the breaking point is and I think we're starting
to see it. I don't think it'll be a breaking
point in the sense it will be abrupt, but it
will evolve, can continue to evolve.

Speaker 5 (40:23):
The topic of UFOs is.

Speaker 8 (40:26):
Now, I think, in a way much more mainstream and
acceptable in sort of acceptable society. I mean, this is
a little more imminent maybe than the next season.

Speaker 5 (40:39):
But you know, the Pentagon Office is supposed to release
kind of volume one of its findings from the last
few years, I think any day now, which is supposed
to be sort of what are we learning from some
of these military pilots, for example, what are we learning

(41:00):
about the possible existence of you know, secret compartmentalized programs
and we're hiding, you know, UFO material.

Speaker 8 (41:09):
It's also supposed to report back on like they were
required by Congress to do a historical study, like go
back seventy five years and try to figure out what
might have been hidden. Interestingly, that study is also supposed
to focus on any disinformation campaigns that our own government.

Speaker 5 (41:29):
Undertook on the topic of UFOs. And I think that's.

Speaker 8 (41:33):
Interesting too, because if you really did want to hide something,
you don't just lock it in a box in a
room somewhere and give three people with security clearance, you know,
authority over it. You might do that, but I think
if you really had a deep, dark secret, you also
create around it so much bullshit, in so much.

Speaker 5 (41:55):
Conspiracy theories, yeah, so.

Speaker 8 (41:58):
Much noise that no one is ever going to find
the room because they are going to be distracted by
fifty thousand other things and other stories and other tales.
And there's already evidence in terms of government documents that
have been released that our government had a UFO disinformation campaign.
Often it was to shield those black programs. I talked

(42:21):
about the stealth bomber, the stealth fighter, I mean, the
Soviet Union, the Russians were crawling all over America during
the Cold War trying to figure out what are we
up to?

Speaker 5 (42:30):
What's our next big weapon?

Speaker 8 (42:32):
And you know, there's evidence that we actually our government
spread false UFO reports to drive the Russians crazy and also,
you know, take people off the scent of maybe some
truly secret thing that had nothing to do.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
With ET that we were working on.

Speaker 8 (42:52):
And so I'm interested to see what we're willing to
cop to on that, what our government is willing to
admit on that, because I think that's also muddled this
issue in a way that makes it very very hard
to unwind this ball of yard. People who care about this,
the public needs the Marshal itself to figure out ways

(43:13):
how do we gather more information, How do we on
our own study these reports and see if we can
figure something out.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
It makes me question why someone like David Grush would
make something up like this that's so complex. I mean,
people do weird shit for weird reasons that you don't understand.
That's that's so effect. But this person is a decorated
individual and government and intelligence in the intelligence community, and

(43:47):
I don't see what he really has to gain. He
can't really has stuff to lose. If this is all
for a book deal, that's pretty shitty.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Can we go Can we go into that? Let's go
into why would he? Why about this? Also, we met
only only if he believes it. Do you want to
go into how we met him?

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, and how he didn't bring any of this up
to h Okay, Actually, well that's a big we'll play
a clip of this actually, so. Brian Bender mentioned a
man named Jeremy Corbel, who if if you're not aware
of who this individual is, in my eyes, he's kind
of like he is like the new UFO guy. Yeah,

(44:26):
he's the UFO He's just most of this stuff right now. Yeah,
but like there's there's been another UFO guy. There's there's
also George Knapp. Yeah but no, but like right now,
like this is the He is on the pulse of
all things UFO UAP and tends to get all of
the government leaks and clearly has some great relationships with

(44:46):
secret sources and has broken a lot of big stories
in in the UFO genre.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
Here.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
I recently sat down and interviewed Jeremy Corbel, which I've
been trying to do for a long time. Actually, we
were trying to in view Jeremy well over a year
ago while we were making High Stream Season one. Mike
and I actually flew to Vegas. If you remember in
the first season when we went to Area fifty one,

(45:14):
it was the same time that we were there, and
we simultaneously stated this hotel in Vegas and attended this
Star Trek conference. We're not Drekky's. I don't really even
know much about.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Star Trek for yourself. I'm not saying that it's not bad.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I just you know, I was like, didn't feel like
I was a diehard fan enough, Like William Shatner was there,
it was the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
It was cool to see.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, But Jeremy Corbell was there with another journalist, George Knapp,
who we've used some clips from his some of his
journalism and season one, and they spoke on a panel
and my plan was to hopefully, you know, grab him
afterwards and have a sit down with him, but he
was super busy, like most people are in the world,

(46:01):
and we had to postponent. But I realized, I'll play
this clip, I'll play this clip from the interview in
a second. But I realized that in my interview with him.
He was describing that scene where we met after the
panel in Vegas and we were at the elevator. He goes,
you know who I was with that day, right? I

(46:22):
was like, you know, George Nap and he goes, no,
the other guy, David. I was like, oh, yeah, the David,
the tall guy, right.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah. He's like that was David Grush.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
And I was like, and David Grush, me and the
guy at the congressional hearing the guy who's started a
whole brand new conversation about this, And in that moment,
I go, holy shit, you're right.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
I see his face now, yeah, and he is.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Tall as shit, and I hear his voice and I go,
I'm I'm in the uber back to the airport and
I text both of you guys, I go go dig
up that tape because I was also like secretly recording
all that, which I told him at the end that
I was doing that. I said, go play that tape
back and go to this moment, and I was doing
it on dropbox and I was like, holy ship, that's

(47:06):
his voice, that's him.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
We'll figure it all out.

Speaker 9 (47:10):
Oh you pay, Yeah, he tells me the layout for it.

Speaker 10 (47:16):
I'm gonna suggest some guests that I can get him
in contact with.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
It's like an audio escape thing.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, it'll be the documentary version, right, Yeah, I want
to help you.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, it's gonna be. I wouldn't waste your time.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
If I didn't think this is my bodyguard, Dave, he
don't be my ass have a special friends.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
You don't need a bodyguard.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
But I know he probably could beat.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah. The thing that we're working on is gonna be
just targeted towards breaking the stigma and kind of just
self acknowledging just like, yeah, we're self aware. I guess
it's aliens and silly, but is it though, Like you know,
what's really up is the entire toe of the whole thing.

Speaker 5 (48:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
I think that will resonate with just everyone. Yeah, and
I think that it could be a way to.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Just push the narrative forward.

Speaker 10 (48:09):
And I'm sure we have find time for a beer
or yeah, off in the dark lights.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, I saw.

Speaker 5 (48:18):
For the first time.

Speaker 7 (48:22):
We're all doing later later tonight.

Speaker 9 (48:23):
I don't know yet, okay, because we we Yeah, we
might be going to you know z Yeah, like I'm
like fighting with his manager really well, like so I
could probably get us all back to it like I
used to in.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
A different way, but used to like laser letting designer,
I used to you.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, still very cool, you know yeah, if that's real, that's.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
The this for like an hour, Like it might be
a fun little thing if you get it on school
we run out of stuff to do.

Speaker 5 (48:51):
I don't know. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
That's much came on my scene.

Speaker 11 (48:58):
He's super cool after I left you, like.

Speaker 5 (49:08):
When they came.

Speaker 8 (49:17):
The previously before some other things I forget, yeah, some other.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Hey, great talk to that was awesome.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
It's a weird thing that, uh, this guy who comes
up with this what could potentially be a life altering
story and the upho narrative was right there next to us.
And we've also been trying to reach him for like months.
But now hey, now we we know that we're only
one degree away.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Also, David is standing right talking just out of my
eyeballs talking to me about Z and you're inviting him
to the Z show. Yeah, which is just.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I'm dude, you're going to go to the Z concert?

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Dude, Like I don't know you, but you should come.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Like sounds like I was being lamb, but no, like
we you know, we were Tim Smith. Actually you know
Tim speaking of Tim Smith. If you're hearing this, this
guy is amazing.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
He's Z's managers.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
And scrillics and among other people, he does his big
he does cool, cooler ship than I do. He was
in Vegas the same the same time we were, and
we met up with him and he's like, hey, you
guys want to go to backstage Z?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
And I was like, I mean, what is that a question?

Speaker 1 (50:38):
And so I was clearly like, hey, guys, like you
want to go backstage to Z. Turns out it was
actually even cooler than I was even talking about it was,
I mean, in his DJ It wasn't backstage we were.
I was DJing by her. Touch his button, Yeah, I
could touch his butt. I could have actually know. I

(50:58):
did give him my hat. He threw it into the
aid you told him to a little known story actually
about Tim Smith is that this man who is amazing love,
this guy Z's manager. He is actually the sole reason
that I was ever able to talk to Travis Walton.

(51:22):
I told him I was doing this this show a
long time ago when kind of when I first met him,
I think, and you know, he's into the topic and
I was keeping him up to speed, and somehow Travis
Walton came up. He's like, you know, actually I know
that guy. I met him before. I was like, what
do you mean. He's like, yeah, I met him a
conference or something and he's a Tim is a big

(51:45):
UFO guy, and I guess made the connection with him.
And remember that day when we were waiting on Travis
Walton to come and we thought he was never coming,
and I really, I mean I was texting Tim, and
I to this day think that Tim sent a text

(52:05):
to Travis in like helped change his mind because he
was very late. And that's all good, but I think
that he was having doubts and about wanting to do it,
and I talked about that in the podcast.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
I just let that little detail out.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Jeremy Corbel has insight unlike most people do in this
space unless you are part of the government, because he
has relationships with these people who have leaked videos, the
stuff that's spawned some of the biggest articles you've heard
and seen and read online. I sat down and talked

(52:40):
to him and it is an amazing, eye opening conversation
and I want you to go check it out on
my weekly show called Talking to death, and I know
it's annoying you have to go click another app and
all that stuff. But in the meantime, while we're working
on High Straine season two, every week on my weekly show,
we talk about stuff like this, sometimes talk about true crime,

(53:03):
talk about UFOs, tab about aliens, And if you want
to just follow along as we're building these shows and
actually working on High Strange, that's how you could do it.
So if you want to check out the full interview
of Jeremy Corbel, which I think you really.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Should, it's worth checking out with me.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
It's one of the better ones that he's done, mostly
because I felt like he was just open with stuff,
and I even asked him what I felt like were
some real, rational, harder questions, and he had good answers
for them.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
I asked Jeremy.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Corbel what he thinks, in his opinion, is the most interesting,
compelling footage of UFOs out there, which is a big question,
because there's a bunch of shit out there and a
bunch of nonsense and a bunch of stuff that might
be real that we don't know.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
So I asked him this, and this is what he said.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
What do you think personally is the most compelling evidence
of extra trest life personally.

Speaker 10 (54:03):
First question that I've asked every single person I've ever
tried to, like interview. I was so naive. I'd say,
what's the best tell me personally what it is?

Speaker 4 (54:12):
And it's never. It's never.

Speaker 10 (54:14):
That's what I want when I talk to people, but
it's never as satisfying because the.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Real Like to you, I know, I'm gonna get your answer, bro,
I know it.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Okay, what is it?

Speaker 4 (54:23):
Are you ready? It sucks? Okay?

Speaker 2 (54:25):
What is it?

Speaker 10 (54:26):
It is the preposterous preponderance and the weight of the
cumulative evidence and my personal experiences that gives me the
most powerful feeling of that is the evidentiary domination of it.
It's the culmination over decades and the preposterous preponderance of evidence.
And we could break that down for your views. What

(54:46):
does that mean? Everything from multisensor platforms to like, yeah,
I mean, I could like point to one thing that
I think is pretty good.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Yeah, just like one case. Yeah, yeah, give me one case. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
Sure.

Speaker 10 (54:58):
I think the least valued and the highest return on
a case is looking at the twenty nineteen UFO swarm
events over the ten Navy warships. The story that George
and I broke with unparalleled multisensor, multi platform footage that

(55:19):
we were able to obtain and release. That twenty nineteen
case is a pinnacle of what we should be doing
with getting different types of data, getting a wide spectrum
of people that all experience the same series of events.
It is a powerful case, and I have done all

(55:40):
the damn leg work, and other people now can jump
in and do some of that. I provided it on
a silver platter. I've got other cases I'm working on.
If people dug into that, they would have an unparalleled case.
That case is so important. This is the night vision
one has night vision. It was thermal, it was radar,
and it was deck footage, and it was ten warships

(56:00):
in twenty nineteen swarm by over one hundred UFOs simultaneously
coming from the west, and there's nothing out there but Hawaii.
They don't know where they came from, they don't know
where they went. They were trans medium have helicopter pilots
that saw them go into the water. You got people
that fought the ships that literally came on and gave
me their audio on my podcast telling what they experienced.
That case is profound, and our government says we still

(56:22):
don't know who operated those devices, those units as they
call them UAP.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
That's a big one.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
It's a big one.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
And the skeptics would say that it was a bouquet
or something in the lens.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
Well, again, I love skeptics. You're talking about debunkers.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Okay, I guess you would say a debunker and that
and that defunkers.

Speaker 4 (56:38):
Yeah, but I don't listen to what yeah, i'd say,
because they're.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah, I've just seen both sides of the story and
i've kind of but to me, having looked at it,
i've seen that video one visually, it also is just
to me instantaneously compelling.

Speaker 10 (56:51):
So that's the green triangle looking footage. Yes, by angle
of observation. Who's green? So triangle by angle of observation.
So what is a four dimensional triangle? Well, that would
be probably a pyramid. Now when I said, oh, yeah,
they were reported as pyramid in shape, I didn't pull
that out of thin air. Right now, I can't put
out everything that comes my way, but I will tell

(57:13):
you on record that is in classified documents that there's
other sensor systems that they had and they were pyramid
and shape and there you go. But people can take
a piece of this cup and tear it off and
put it to the side and then hide the rest
of the cup and be like, see it's not a cup. Yeah,
but that's a piece of a cup. That's what they're
doing intentionally. I'm telling people, if you look at the

(57:35):
totality of the twenty nineteen storm events, which is an
example of these swarms that are occurring all around the
world to this day, and I have other cases of it,
and I've said one before and it was off the
coast of Japan. I did that on want With podcast.
People should dig into that. There have been so many
and I have so many first ten witnesses, some of
whom are leaving military now and will come forward with

(57:58):
telling exactly what they need about it. But everything happens
on its own time. With that, I can't control that
absolutely case.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
It's a huge decision that they're making too if if
they're leaving.

Speaker 10 (58:08):
Because we see what happens to people that raise their head.
Davidsh you just try to king call. Yeah, but he's
a tough motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Yeah, I will say. David Grush is also really well spoken.
I think and just articulate. So, you know, regardless of
you know, if what he's saying is true or not, Damn,
they got a good person saying it.

Speaker 10 (58:35):
Yeah, we're real, right, were We're lucky to have somebody
like David Grush. There's articulate. David Grush is fastidious. He
is also has an incredible memory. He is well oriented
to be in the roles that he was in, which
was you know, national security intelligence. Uh, you know, he

(58:56):
was a high ranking intelligence officer, career guy. He's the
kind of guy you want protecting America. He's the kind
of guy that was in a position to know and
see these black programs. He's the guy that uncovered with
you know, dozens of witnesses these UFO or non human
intelligence craft being reverse engineered, that kind of thing. And

(59:16):
then he pushed over those sources, like he says, up
to forty and he put them over to another investigation
into the ic IG intelligence community inspector general like the
police of the intelligence community. They then did their own investigation,
found it to be both credible and urgent, and obviously
found what he said to be not only credible and urgent,
but relevant and not a lie. So really, we're lucky

(59:40):
to have David Greesh having come forward to the degree
he has. There's more he could do, but he has
to bide by the law. Does not want to hurt
the United States of America, So how do you do it?
And he's trying to do it the right way, you know. Famously,
if you're in intelligence, you have to assume you're being
lied to, you know, by people in intelligence, Like our
government hasn completely tried to keep this on the d

(01:00:02):
L and I get that for some time for good reason.
But we're past that now. So I'm really hoping that
the new Director of Varro makes a point to be
honest with the American public because the truth will be
told eventually. And I know that because people have gone
to the IC, I G. This cops of the intelligence agencies,

(01:00:23):
and they have presented what they know and it is undeniable.
So now it's just a matter of falling up on it.
So the truth will come out. And if you're going
to be remembered in history, because you've got the hubris
and the little you know, coat pins, and you want
to be remembered in history, don't fucking lie.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
How about that start there? Honest with the American public.

Speaker 10 (01:00:40):
I just know that certain truths will come out easy
way or hard way, and I am all down for
the hard way, and so are other people. It ain't pretty, though,
it would be nice if it came out in a
controlled way where this disclosure process is when we can
get to a point where we point the finger at

(01:01:01):
each other and being like, we can have difference of opinion,
but when we're all in it together, we have some
consensus that this is worthy of us looking at You're
gonna see that completely unravel. You're gonna see I mean,
I'm not a predictive person. I don't know when my
coffee pot's going off. But I imagine that if we
stop this kind of weird infighting and just try to

(01:01:23):
look at the truth together, it will be abundantly clear
that there's there's a true mystery here and we could
benefit from looking at it together. We've been ignoring it
for quite some time. We've been that guy, you know,
on the corner of the table, sitting dying it. Really yeah,
going along with everybody, you know, what's easier to feel
like we do know everything. But that's always never been true.

(01:01:46):
That's never why is it true? Now all of a sudden,
it isn't yeah right, I don't. I think that's a
weird burden, Like I am wrong more than I'm right right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
But the thing is, see.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
That's how I know that you're is if you've ever
been wrong, yeah, or unless you're always right, then have
you ever had that moment where you're like, you're a
kid right and you fucking you like fight for somebody
like I know for sure they said left and not right,
and then you just get a complete like you were
totally wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
Have you ever had that experience? Y?

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Did you learn from that?

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
Ah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yeah, I don't ever want to feel that way again.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
Okay, I learned that.

Speaker 10 (01:02:23):
Holy shit, I got a triple check things quadrup will
check them. Because we are all flawed, we have a
chance to be wrong absolutely, So you always put that
in front of the mind.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
Yeah, you know, you gotta check yourself.

Speaker 10 (01:02:35):
Always and have other people do it for you to
help you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Jeremy gets so much hate on Reddit and on Twitter
that he's a grifter, that he's just saying stuff and
he's believing stuff that people tell him. Bro, this is
one of the most sincere dudes I've ever talked to
and he's not tricking anyone.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
He believes us.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
People come to him with information that they trust him
with and he keeps them anonymous, and he doesn't put
it out right away and he might sit on stuff
that he's known about forever. The UFO people are turning
against him and like, oh, he's just a dude, saying
like next time, But like, no, this guy wants all
the same stuff we want. He wants disclosure, He wants

(01:03:22):
this stuff to come out. He wants he wants to
out every source that's ever came to him, but he can't.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Yeah, he's in the business of furthering this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
You have to gain trust and to keep trust, and
to keep other sources coming to you anonymously. You have
to respect the current ones you have right now. And
he does that and he's very sincere.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Yeah, and you know, and like I I asked him
hard questions, normal hard questions.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
If I were to say hey, X y Z, and
you're like, holy shit, that sounds unbelievable. You know, you'd
be like to tell me more, or what do you
mean or how do you know? And I was asking
those kind of questions, and I feel like, you know,
those are questions that are probably annoying, but he also

(01:04:13):
knows the value of those questions. And I had never
in it at all. Was trying to, you know, catch
him in something. I wanted him to take the time
to explain one more detail that might be like, and
I was looking for myself. I was like, if I'm

(01:04:33):
a little bit skeptical, help me get there. I believe you,
but I'm also you know, if it's I deal with
true crime, you know, and that comes down to the
court of law sometimes right facts evidence, you know, statements,
witness testimony, shit that you can present to a jury

(01:04:58):
to make your argument.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
And I really enjoyed that we were able to have
that kind of conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Of course, he had only great answers, because that's who
he is. He's not bullshitting. It's a it's a weird
topic because you know, we don't know where this is
going to go. But every time I get lost in
it again and I'm like, god, man, like, if it
was real, we would just know by now. I think
of the exact opposite. For a second, I go, Man,

(01:05:26):
if it wasn't real, Man, wouldn't this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Just be over by now?

Speaker 5 (01:05:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
I like, think about all.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
The things that we proved to be wrong, there's a lot, Yeah,
you know what I mean, Like, how is this one
still so persistent? For as much as we know, it's
almost like the ideas only become more likely and more possible.
And that's maddening to think about, especially if it weren't true.

(01:05:55):
What does it even say about us as humans? If
if we were just imagining all this shit at this point,
or what is it that we're experiencing that we're filling
all these gaps for? I think that becomes a crazier
concept than there being something beyond this earth, whatever that
means in existence, that is more intelligent and it has

(01:06:19):
been here for longer. We love making this show, and
we love making these roundtable episodes, and I swear to
God every every week we have been reminding ourselves we
need to go make a roundtable right now, just like
just just to do it and have faith in us,

(01:06:40):
because we have been hard at work on investigating news
stories for the second season and it's actually finally shaping
up and it's it's becoming a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
I'm not gonna lie what This might be my favorite
thing to do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
You're so good at it. It's good. It's good. Hey,
look he said it. Keep this part in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
We most certainly have plans to make a second season
of High Straine, So I'll just go ahead and officially
say that I don't have a timeline for you yet,
but I can tell you that we've already been working
on it. We never really put it down. Since we stopped.
It almost seemed like High Strained Season one broke the

(01:07:23):
broke the seal for us and kind of kicked down
the door for some of the people we've wanted to
talk to since day one anyway, and the conversation is evolving.
And I always looked at High Strained Season one as
a sort of a baby step to this concept, even

(01:07:45):
for myself, just to sort of put it all wrapped
up in a bow and let's just talk about what
the hell is going on? And I feel like if
you were riding with me the whole time in season one,
that we're probably in a similar spot. No matter where
you land, that there's something going on right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
You can't deny it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
And so the conversation's not dead, it's only more alive
than ever. And I had a thought that conceptually for
Highest Trained Season two, a lot of people have emailed
me and they've said stuff like, you know, is this
just like an American thing?

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
All the stories we covered were mostly American stories, besides
the Renulstrum incident, which was the American military but happened
in the UK. But I can really see how just
the the folklore around UFOs Area fifty one, you know,
the US government's flying saucers, a lot of that stems
from American pop culture.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
But the crazy thing is, and I've learned this even
more since the season ended, is that it's a legitimate
worldwide thing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Absolutely, it's happening in every.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
Single fucking country you can think of. And I think
a lot of those stories to me almost hold more
weight because it just goes against the pop culture hoax
sort of concept that we lean into when it seems
too good to be true. Here and please please go

(01:09:20):
check out Talking to Death, my weekly show.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
We all three work on this show.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Every interview that you hear on that show, we've all
been in the fucking room and it's a fun array
of people and we do talk about UFOs with people
you would never expect us to.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Yeah. Yeah, So go check out Talking to Death right now.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
My My true crime show, which is how it's all
started up and Vanished is out and so we're doing
these intros. In the beginning of the Talking to Death episode,
we're breaking down that. So if you haven't heard Up
and Vanished, go check that out. But yeah, we're coming back.
We never left you, we always loved you, and please,
you know, talk to us. It's an EMAO like follow
us on social media at High Strange, tell us what

(01:10:04):
you think, and we may or may not respond.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
We'll post this jellyfish UFO video.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
On the instagram, the High Strange Instagram.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
It is. It is weird looking. It's like, I don't
I don't know what it looks.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
It doesn't look like a traditional UFO in the way
that you are probably imagining it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
It looks like some it looks like a jellyfish.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Well have you seen the peanut butter one?

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
What the peanut but the peanut butter? Is this a
is this a bad joke? Okay, what's the punch one? Yeah? Yeah,
I can't wait. When does it get funny?

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
Well, it's the peanut butter in a jellyfish incident.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Oh my peanut butter. Wow, this is how this is.
We went too long. You know, we talked for too long.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
We have fried our brains everybody, but no, in all seriousness,
thank you for being patient with us. We love you, guys,
and we will see you very soon. Go check out
Talking to Death. The Jeremy Corbell interview is all about
UFOs and I know you'll love it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Thanks, Thank you for being a friend.

Speaker 6 (01:11:12):
Thanks, go to spaceship Space, Big White.

Speaker 12 (01:11:16):
Lets you name a habitat and smoke a need A
weed player did take a lean sheeping on g is
a bean bag.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
I've been going gene because a cool know she was
over pending up.

Speaker 12 (01:11:33):
She'll been talking your Japan in the bends of the
very T shirt sleeve, udding up top turn of vert riding.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
Then you gotta being down and saying the Pope. We
spend a die cop and John Knack and I helped
boom Nat of guys, we are not a devil.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
High Strange is an eighth part series released weekly for
free every Thursday. But if you'd like to beinge the
whole series right now, you can subscribe to foot plus
on Apple Podcasts to get all the episodes right now.
Follow the show on TikTok and Instagram. At high Strange
and you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at
Payne Lindsay. If you have your own UFO story, email

(01:12:13):
us at tips at highstrange dot com. High Strange is
a production by Tenderfoot TV in association with Cadence thirteen, created,
hosted and edited by myself, Payne Lindsey Executive producers or
myself and Donald Albright. Editing by Mike Rooney, Cooper Skinner
and myself. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set, Sound design,

(01:12:37):
mixing and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Mike Rooney,
Dylan Harrington, Eric Quintana, Sean Nurney, Meredith Stedman, and Sidney Evans.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Our cover art is by Polygon.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
This episode features the song space Cadet by metro Booman
featuring Gunna, written by Wesley Tyre Glass, Sergio Kitchens, Leland Tyler,
Wayne Alan Ritter and Jock Queeze Webster, performed by metro
Booman featuring Gunna courtesy of Republic Records under license from
Universal Music Enterprises for metro Booman in three hundred Entertainment
for Gunna Special Thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum in the Whole

(01:13:12):
Team at UTA the Nord Group, Station sixteen, Beck Media
and Marketing, as well as Chris Corcoran and the team
at Cadence thirteen. Check out the show's website at Highstrange
dot com and if you're enjoying the show, please help
us out by rating and reviewing the podcast and share
it with your friends. Thanks for listening. High Strange is

(01:13:42):
an eight part series. If you'd like to bene the
whole series right now add free, you can subscribe to
Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts