Revisiting the Biggest Offseason Trades

On today’s show, Rohan and Chris begin by discussing the early returns of Rudy Gobert, Donovan Mitchell, and Dejounte Murray trades from the summer. Which team is best positioned to go further in the playoffs than last season? Rohan hits Chris with one more nuclear take, this time regarding Karl-Anthony Towns. Chris makes a shocking discovery about the Beam in Sacramento. And then thanks to Mike Brown and Mike Budenholzer, Dick’s Last Resort gets dragged through the mud

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of Open for I'm Rohan
knocking a choice today. My friend and Sports hillst colleague,
senior writer and author. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. New York
Times best selling author of the book Blood in the Guarden,
Chris Harry, And Chris, how's it going. I'm good, buddy,
how are you? I'm good. You know, it's a it's

(00:24):
like a frigid forty nine degrees in Los Angeles. Like
that's uh to me, that's cold now, I mean, and now, honestly,
that's fair. That's cold for where y'all are at. It's
still early in the day there, so I would hope
and trust it. Um, y'all, y'all have less overcast weather
than we do in Chicago, so um, maybe we'll get

(00:46):
a little bit warmer there. I'm looking out my window
and uh, my girlfriend is going to come into town
later tonight. And she sent me like a depressed face,
a depressed emoji because she was like, really, the weekend
I come out there, you guys have this and it
essentially had like snow flurries in the forecast. Um, And
I looked at her and I kind of responded back, like,

(01:08):
you're not allowed to be mad at that. Like, first
of all, the low this weekend is thirty six, which
means it theoretically can't snow if it doesn't get colder
than that, that's not freezing. So you know, if we
have if sleep is the worst thing we have this weekend,
like it's it is getting to be mid December now,
you know, so it's not. It's not the worst thing
in the world. You tried to defend sleep. That was

(01:31):
your I guess that is ultimately what I was doing.
But I mean, like, hey, at this point, we've had
some snow here in Chicago. It hasn't been we haven't
had like real, real snow or three days later it's
still on the ground because of how heavy it was.
But um, you know, I feel like at this point,
when you get to December, you can't really be surprised
by anything you see in Chicago. But I will just

(01:53):
the original point forty nine and Los Angeles and any
time of day, any time of years, is reason to
be able to complain and very It's shocking. It's absolutely shocking. Um, Chris,
A few things I want to get to on today's show,
including an email I think I'm gonna surprise you with that.
I just remember that I can surprise you with so

(02:13):
please keep your emails coming open floor mail at gmail
dot com. I want to start with a piece I
wrote for Sports Illustrated this week. Rudy Gobert returns to
Utah tonight. Were recording this on a Friday morning, his
first game back in Utah since being traded from the
Jazz this summer. Um. I wrote a little bit about

(02:36):
kind of the three big offseason trades that happened this summer.
We'd Gobert going to the Jazz, Mitchell going to the Calves,
Dijon Timory going to the Hawks, and there were obviously
some other impact from moves in the summer that we
mentioned briefly in the story, Jeremy Grant obviously, Malcolm Brogden
on the Supercharge Celtics. But I wanted to talk about
these three trades, Chris, because usually when you have teams

(03:00):
kind of making that trade for an All Star, it's
kind of throwing the gas on the fire move, and
so far we've really kind of seen it only work
out for one team so far. Um. But let's kind
of maybe take these one by one. Let's start with
the Hawks. A little bit. I know we talked about
them earlier this week just in terms of kind of

(03:23):
this Tray Young situation. But let's start here. What was
your initial reaction to the Hawks acquiring Dijon Tamara Because
I know in our group chat there was quite a
bit of a discussion about it. Yeah, and once again
you were above the fray letting, letting myself and Peano

(03:44):
Duke get out. So tell me, well, what was kind
of your initial reaction to that move? Um, To be
honest with you, if I'm remembering exactly what I bought correctly, Um,
it felt like a lot of like pretty much an
all in move on something where you felt like it
made them better, but it wasn't clear if it made

(04:06):
them so much better to where it made that much
sense to go all the way in. Um. It was
also a weird I mean in light of because that
that deal happened first, I think, before the Gobert deal.
So it was also one of those things where it
was like, man, if you had to give up a
lot of things to get someone, wouldn't you rather do
it with him than to do it with Gilbert? And

(04:26):
like a guard oriented league, somebody that obviously is a
really good defender that can get his own shot. Um.
And you know, so it was interesting from that standpoint too.
But it just felt like a lot for Atlanta to
give up a team that had spent so much, uh,

(04:47):
two years earlier, right before they made their you know,
that playoff push and made it to the conference finals
kind of unexpectedly. Um. But it you know, it was
a big question of like, Okay, you're taking tray off
the ball. Now you're getting the ball to somebody else
who's a really good player. But it just felt like

(05:07):
it wasn't gonna solve everything. It could make them a
lot better, but it wasn't ever going to solve everything.
And the reality now is that, you know, you could
look at Trey Young and his struggles this year and
wonder how much of it is because of that. I
actually don't think it's a function of that, but I think, um,
I just think that it was putting a little bit.

(05:30):
It was there was too much dip on their hip
with this trade. Uh. There there was a little bit
too much that you had to give up for something
that it wasn't clear, um. Just like with the Minnesota trade,
it wasn't clear if it made you so much better
that it was worth kind of giving up the farm for.
And they did essentially give up the farm here. It's
it's also tough because, on one hand, I like when

(05:51):
teams make this kind of trade like that. The Hawks
are trying to win, are trying to get better, trying
to acquire all star talent, recognizing that if they need
to get a talent like de Jont Murray, it's not
something you can do easily via free agency. The problems
you mentioned. It's like you acquire a guy who plays
the same position as your best player and they both

(06:11):
really need the ball in their hands to be effective.
And you mentioned trey struggles. I do think, you know,
I can't sit here and say, you know, I did
a deep film dive on this specific thing, but I'm
with you from what I've seen from the Hawks. It's
not like I think Trey is shooting numbers are down
because he's playing with Jon Murray. You know, his shot

(06:31):
profile is a little bit different this year. The kind
of non rim two's are up, But that wouldn't explain
why he's shooting a career worse from three. Um, it
doesn't explain why John Collins somehow his shot has disappeared
and he's become you know, absolutely creative from three. Um,
I think the Bogdanovitch injury has hurt them because they
need another shooter and he's finally recently back in the lineup. Now.

(06:54):
Of course Dejan Trey Murray himself is heard. I thought
this was interesting because when this is NBA dot COM's
line up data, it's interesting because you know, I know
a lot of people me to use like play by
play stats dot com and they have a different net rating.
But this is NBA dot COM's line up data. They

(07:14):
say Trey and Degen have a four point seven net
rating and five sixty three minutes together, which is pretty good. Again,
you know that relative to like star duos, it's not great.
You want your two best players to in fact have
a higher one, but that's not sure. But I think
what's crazy is when one of them is off the
floor and one of them is running the offense, they're craters. Um,

(07:38):
They're they're playing really poorly in those scenarios. So that's
that was surprising to me because another reason why you
make a move like this is, you know, you want
to stagger your stars. You hope that they can carry
lineups that in fact has worked out really well in Cleveland,
which we'll get to in a minute. Um, can can
we talk about that for a second, because of course
I know we'll get to that and and so not

(07:59):
to know dive too much into it now. But I
think the difference with them, meaning that the Hawks and
with Cleveland is it. Cleveland I think has the potential
to almost become better when you take one of their
stars off the floor, at least their guards, because they
kind of have they share kind of the same strengths

(08:20):
in the same deficiencies to some extent. Um. So if
you have two guys out there that defensively might kind
of make you really weak in the back court, taking
one of them off the court might help you, especially
with the guys you've got behind them. Um, in Atlanta,
when Trey is out there by himself, particularly without Bogdanovich,
you know, just recently haven't gotten him back. Um, it's

(08:43):
already a struggle to have to like Jon say, Murray
is maybe someone that can help him defensively, you pull
him off the court, that hurts him and Tray has
gotta make up for it even more. But although there.
There again, you've got Trey shooting more poorly than he
really ever has, So there's just really no no one
to the rescue in that situation, whereas with the Calves
you do have that, and I think to some extent

(09:05):
to um the Timberwolves are kind of in a weird
spot from that scenario as well. Um, So, I actually
think that is kind of the commonality. But you know,
for the Calves why they have thrived in some ways
that I think they're set up better to have success
when one of those two guards is off the court.
Let me wrap up the Hawks by saying this last
year first round exit. If I had to put you

(09:30):
on the spot right now, like, are you confident they
can make it further than they made it last year? No? No,
I'm not. I mean I I just uh, look, Trey
will shoot better at some point. I'm not worried about that. Uh, Colins,
like Collins almost has to. It makes no sense. He's
missing the looks that he's gotten his entire career. Yeah, so,

(09:51):
I mean he'll be better at some point if they
keep him. I mean, that's a different conversation. Uh, you
would hope that Bogdanovitch will be helping now that he's back. Uh,
you know Hunter, It's gotten weird with Hunter. It's like
at some point you just kind of um, whether it'll
be healthy or not, whether he'll be solid or not.
I'll never leave DeAndre hunter Island. I'll go down with

(10:11):
the with the natural disaster, gonna be one of the
violent players on the Satanic I mean, but I tend
to want to be that way to um. But I
think my bigger thing is just like at this point,
I don't necessarily expect all of them to put it
together at once, not to even mention Murray. Um, they
have enough talent to get it done. They certainly could

(10:32):
get it done. Um, I just don't know that I'm
more confident that they will get it done than I am,
you know, pessimistic about that. I don't know that it's
a great fit between Trey and Umgona, and I think
too to that point, I don't think if they're so
good that like I would pencil them in for the
second round is all I'm saying. And and obviously the
start of this season, unless you feel like this is

(10:55):
all of this has been a really bad regression and
that they're going to progress to something. I don't see
reason to think that they're gonna for sure be in
the second und what would you say to that your question?
I have a hard time believing it now. Once again,
the standings are still completely in flux here, sure, um,
which I want to talk about in a minute, actually
when we get to the Wolves. But let's say Atlanta

(11:18):
right now, they're currently fifth in the East, but there's
a huge bunch up basically from four to ten in
the East. I mean four to ten is separated by
two games. You know, we talked about the heat struggles.
They're in tenth right now. There are two games out
of the four seed behind Brooklyn. Um. You know, all
these teams are kind of one run away. But I
think Brooklyn has looked better generally the last season. Yeah, um.

(11:42):
And I think Simmons before he got hurt, were starting
to play better as well. You know, I think Indiana
will fall off. I think Toronto's dealt with a lot
of injuries this year. Do I I might like Toronto
more than Atlanta. Frankly, so, I don't see it. And
I don't know if that's me being self serving, because
I wasn't just a I wasn't a huge fan of
the fit of this trade. I didn't like them dumping

(12:03):
Herder and I'm just not getting good vibes from Trey Young. Yeah,
I have a hard time believing them getting out of
the first round. And speaking of a team, I have
a hard time believing getting out of the first round.
The Minnesota Timberwolves. Um, the Wolves. The Wolves are currently

(12:23):
thank you, thank you, my man. It's the Timberwolves are
currently eleventh in the West. But it's a little misleading.
They are eleventh, but literally only four games out of
first three and a half games out of second, two
and a half four. It's weird. This is the current
top four. No, no, no, this is the current top

(12:45):
six in the NBA's Western Conference, in order one to six.
The Pelicans, Sons, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Kings, Jazz, Kings, everything else. Well, no,
I guess after all the trades of Jazz made the
Jazz make no sense either, But that that's the King's
being in the top six and any Memphis even after

(13:07):
the second day of the season is noteworthy. But like ahead,
Memphis is third and they haven't had a minute of
being JAW and j j J playing together. This season. Yeah, Um,
it makes no sense. Golden States ten, they're still hovering
it five even though they've been better recently. They now
lost too in a row. They rest guys still. The
Clippers just lost again. They sat Kauai on the second

(13:29):
night of the back to back Portland's back up. The
MAVs are back. Like a week ago, it was like
a MAVs and then they went three in a row. Um,
it's just uh, it makes no sense. But the Wolves
are twelve and twelve. Carl Town's is hurt right now.
He's um scheduled to miss some time. But I wanted

(13:49):
to um pull up a stat here about the Wolves
in the minutes that go bear, Anthony Edwards and Carl
Towns have played together four minutes zero point eight net rating.
They've been really good defensively with the Towns, Edwards and

(14:12):
Gobert on the floor, but it's terrible offensively. That to
me is m is a huge sign of concern because
I mentioned, like your best players something. If your team
is not playing well, maybe your bench is terrible. Um
that your best players should have a good net rating
together like that holds like even the bad teams that

(14:33):
they remember the last year the Magic we're bad, but
like they're starting five. Yeah, like, um, you know they already.
We've aldreated Anthony Edwards saying I'd play better when the
lineups are smaller. We had Austin Rivers being like, if
we're playing two bigs, they need to dominate. We had
Draymond Green just kind of straight up laughing at Rudy

(14:53):
gobert Um the other night. They're fifteenth in defense. I mean,
they're good when gobarts on the floor, so it's hard
to put the blame on him. But when you think
about how good those Jazz teams were defensively, it's weird
that the Chambers aren't ultimately higher in the efficiency rankings.

(15:15):
I don't want to say disaster because this has been
a weird season and it's still so early, and yeah,
it's not looking good. Many like there's a part of
me that wants to play Devil's advocate only slightly here
and in the case of Minnesota, and I think even
the one we're talking about before in Atlanta, maybe this
is a good reset for these teams in the sense that, okay,

(15:39):
um if obviously Trey was kind of more used to
being the guy and not having to give up the
ball as much. And you know, he's obviously not a
guy that plays much off the ball really at all. Um.
For years, there have been the comparisons, you know, the
false comparisons between he and Steph, and it's like, okay,
step moves off the ball better than anybody ever, and

(16:00):
you know, forces more movement defensively than anybody ever. And
then you have Trey, who, granted, like Dame, can pull
up from forty, but is not gonna really skewer you. Um,
you know, by running around and relocating and all that stuff.
So maybe Trey in some ways can really get back

(16:20):
on track because is not there. Again, I told you
about the concerns defensively. UM. Likewise, here with the Timberwolves,
maybe there's something to be said for the fact that
maybe they can just dominate defensively. Now. Um, the defense
has not really been their problem. They have not been
nearly as good as people thought they could be. With Gilbert.

(16:41):
You know, I don't think it's just to just add
water sort of thing with Gilbert that you just plug
him in and you have a top ten defense. People
said that for years, UM, he was generally not playing
with other bigs. When throughout that run, especially the last
few years, they were just kind of plugging in a
lot of three point shooters UM and wings with him
in Utah, so him having to play alongside another big Um.

(17:03):
They were okay defensively and obviously good enough to bet um,
you know, overall, even with that kind of awkward fits sometimes,
but they you know, they they had lapses defensively. We're talent.
It's unclear which guy is supposed to go out and
get UM a shooter at the top of the key.
How long does it take to close out UM? Which
priority is kind of Gobert handling. Defensively, They've been okay,

(17:26):
they've been good, but not great defensively in those minutes,
So maybe this gives them a chance to be great
now defensively. The flip side, obviously is that you're losing
a guy that can go off for thirty on any
given night, Um and so. But still, maybe it simplifies
certain tasks for for Gobert now to not have Towns
out there. Maybe it gives Edwards a little bit more

(17:47):
of a traditional sort of lineup and not having to
play with two bigs because he likes playing with smaller groups.
He's been good with their bench pretty much all year long.
That's kind of been there saving grace here. So there
is a part of me that's wondering, does this allow
for a little bit of a reset, a chance to
get back on track with these teams that changed really drastically,
I would say, more drastically than just about anybody, aside

(18:09):
from maybe Cleveland with the with the acquisition of really
one guy, um, whether it be dejon Ty Murray or
in this case, Rudy Gobert. So I I think that
there's some hope. But even if they do kind of
thrive in those moments without key players, like you said,
at some point you've got to be really good with
your top guys together. So it might be a you know,

(18:32):
a chance to kind of have a feel good week
and a half two weeks, three weeks in the case
of the Timber was maybe four weeks um. But they're
gonna have to be consistent at some point with their
star guys all playing together. You would think, Yeah, in
some ways, I'd be more worried if they played really
well without Towns, because now you're left with the how
do we reintegrate him in line up? Now we found success.

(18:54):
I just keep thinking about I mean, we saw a
little bit in the Warriors game, but like I think
about the team that was in the finals last year,
that him, that's been the best in the league so
far this year, the Celtics. Like, if the Celtics are
playing White, Smart, Tatum, Brown and Horford, who is Carl
Town's guarding? Yeah, I mean, I guess you could put
him on Horford, but Horford is gonna run him through

(19:15):
a ton of screens, a ton of off ball actions. Um,
you know you're gonna talents is gonna have to be
making reads on help and things like that. But then
does that mean Gobert is guarding Jalon Brown Jason Tatum,
Like I know, not every team is the Celtics. Obviously
there are a special case, particularly this year. But that's
just a problem they kind of run in time and

(19:37):
time again. Is teams feel confident playing like you said,
wings instead of bigs at the fore position now, and
Gobert is just not going to punish them inside, Like
he's not gonna be able to take advantage of that
mismatch um, especially when Towns is also on the floor. Yeah,

(19:58):
It's it's crazy because I mean you think what they
won the plan last year there in this heated uh
first round series with the Grizzlies, I kind of feel
like they've taken a step back, man, Like, I mean,
I know right now they're outside. I would agree with that.
It's hard not to. I mean, where what would you
point to now you've got an offense that doesn't work,

(20:19):
when you've got your star guys in and a defense
that's okay. Um, that was way, you know, if this
was all they were going to be. Let's say they
make it in. Let's say they make it in as
a six where they avoid the plan. If this is
all they were ultimately going to be, isn't that where
they finished? They had their plan last year? And then obviously,
you know Pat Beev jumped on the scores table. I mean,

(20:41):
if you move up a spot or two, that's not
good enough. If you move up three spots but have
like no realistic chance to when your series or get
to the second round, that's not good enough. Um. For
for everything you gave up here we can talk about
the picks, and obviously that was really painful I'm sure
for me so with but the but they gave up

(21:01):
a lot of talent too, And we're obviously the flip
side of this is that we're looking at we're looking
at the team that they traded with, who we thought
was going to be a bottom to bottom three team
and the you know, the Victor w W Nyama sweepstakes,
and they're you know, they're in playoff position right now
because they traded so much better in talent to get Gobert.

(21:22):
So um, you know, I I do think, like I said,
it's it's a good opportunity for a slight reset here. Um.
If you look at Gobert's offensive numbers basically since Towns
was out, um, he's the guy shooting basically getting closer
to um, you know, and in the last game twelve shots.
He's getting closer to nine ten shots a game now

(21:44):
in some situations now without him. Really nice game against
the Pacers the other night, right on Wednesday night. That
was a fun game. He comes up with a big
block at the end of the game. I believe he
had a big scoring night as well. Um he dropped,
let me just check. But he's but you know, I

(22:06):
think about some of the struggles with Towns offensively, and
I've watched I remember watching that ridiculous, ridiculous game where
I want to say Miami had seven guys in Minnesota
in Towns, I'm sorry, not Towns. Gobert didn't take any
shots at all, which I understand the idea that like
okay and an offensive has the Angelo Russell, Anthony Edwards,

(22:26):
Carl Towns. No, I don't expect Gobert to be taking ten, twelve,
fifteen shots a game. I also don't expect him to be,
you know, playing a game and taking no shots in
more than thirty minutes of playing time. It was kind
of ridiculous, and it's just kind of I know he
has a role. I know he's a great screener, I
know all the stuff he does. I know how good
a defender he is. But you can't have guys playing

(22:47):
thirty minutes and not shooting. Um, it just can't be
the case. In a playoff series. Teams will find a
way enough of a way to ignore him to where
it's like, again, you can't give up that. Then he
picks for someone and veteran talent to have someone that's
not going to take any shots. It's too much offensive
responsibly for everybody else. If he's not going to shoot

(23:09):
so maybe this gives him a chance to get into
a rhythm offensively in a way that we haven't seen, um,
to provide more of a threat. But but like you said,
even if he does that, and even if they thrive
here with Towns out, what does that mean? Um? So,
I mean there's a part of me that has been
thinking and you know it won't happen this year. But like, um,

(23:30):
even if they're not losing, if they're only winning only
so much and they really don't look that good and
their stars don't play together well, which I think is
the biggest concern here, Um, how soon do you start
thinking about getting off this deal? Which that's a that's
maybe a like a little bit of a Chris Unplugged take.

(23:52):
But like if if if you're a total total total
failure and then have to get off of Colbert, like
what are we talking about? Out? Like then teams start
to kind of pounce and aren't going to give you
anything for him. So I mean, I don't know, like
I said, you probably wouldn't get that much for him
now right now anyway, But it just kind of feels

(24:12):
like what are we doing? It just feels like the
wheels are just kind of turning in place. Two things,
two things. The first thing I thought of when you
said Chris unplugged, was you like, and you know, like
there's anytime someone here's a photo of Kurt Cobain and
it's like he's sitting on the thing with the guitar
and he's got the long hair. I just imagined you
with the Kurt Cobain hair, and oh boy, yeah, yeah

(24:36):
number two, number two if you're ready for like row babies,
second nuclear take of the week. Um, at what point
did you look at moving carl towns and building around
Anthony Edwards? Um? I just well, if if kat is
gonna sit there and and and criticize his diet, that
may be very soon. But yeah, if for him, could

(25:01):
you imagine like it's like if in our if like
I as your coworker criticize your diet, how funny that
would be. Um, I know it's not the same. I
know it's not the same. Amplify it along with the
idea that we you know, would be making thirty forty
million a year or could be very soon, like Anthony Edwards.

(25:23):
It just like, look it it's not the end of
the world. And these guys are young enough to kind
of just you know, if you have a winning streak,
you can essentially forget about what town said. But still, uh,
it's just like we as most of us have been saying,
the vibes don't seem great and um, and you could
make the argument that while I don't think Towns wants

(25:44):
them to lose with him out um, that the vibes
can actually get slightly worse in some ways if they
because it allows us. I also remember the first game
that Towns missed was the first game of the season
in which the Timberwolves gave up less than a hundred points.
You were than a hundred it, so it's kind of like, Okay,
there's a potential coincidence there. Um, stuff happens where stuff happens, fine,

(26:07):
but still it's just kind of a just kind of
a weird vibe there. And I don't think it's too
soon to be a little bit concerned. I also don't
think it's too soon to have the question of like,
how how not good does this have to be for
them to look to move somebody? And and I would
imagine that there would be another move that would happen

(26:28):
before this, Like we've talked about for a while, the
idea of like D'Angel Russell. Um, you know, it's gotten
a little bit better since a really, really, really frigid
start to the season, but also just doesn't really seem
like the greatest fit there. Um. They had Thias Jones,
and it's like, it's it's incredible to see how good
he's been, the best, you know, the best backup in
the league. And I think that's part of the reason

(26:50):
why Memphis has been so good when John doesn't play,
and Tis probably makes more sense on that team than
someone like D'Angel Russell. Absolutely, and just for a lot
of reasons. But I'll just put a ball on it
by saying this. It's not like I think that they
need to move talents it will make them better, or
that I think Anthony Edwards is a flight risk. He's
obviously going to sign his rookie extension. No one's going
to give that up. But if I were in their

(27:13):
front office, I would be doing everything in my power
to make sure I'm keeping Anthony Edwards happy. Um. And
it's kind of crazy to think that Tim Connolly comes
from Denver where they beat up on Utah in that
playoff series and Tradeford Golbert. Let's move to the Calves
real quick, Chris Um. As we mentioned earlier, I mean

(27:33):
Donovan Mitchell has been borderline m VP candidate, like he'll
probably pick up a couple of votes, uh twenty nine
points a game. His efficiency has been incredible, off the charts.
Um I think he's I think I let me see
if I can find it in the article. But he
is so close to a fifty season, which someone on

(27:55):
the the volume that he's shooting at is that's absurd.
Six percent from the field, forty two point four percent
from three from the free throw line. Um uh. He's
been incredible. Everything they could have asked for. They've been
decent um with in Mitchell and Garland Minutes, in Garland Mobley,

(28:19):
Jared Allen, Mitchell minutes. They only have a one point
two net rating. I do think part of that is
they're really struggling to find the right fifth person that
those four with Dean Wade have been fantastic, for example,
But I don't think Dean Wade is necessarily like the
long term solution. So what I really like about the
Calves is Mitchell has been playing well. They can survive

(28:42):
minutes when Garland or Mitchell Is off the floor, which
they could not do last year. That that's made a
huge difference for them. And beyond that, I think that
they have the ability to make a trade to go
find that fifth person. I think like they just they're
one three and D guy away from unlocking that starting yeah. Yeah,
And and honestly, I mean, even granted the playoffs are

(29:04):
different than regular season, there are times where I look
at them now and I'm like, I don't even know
if they're that person away anymore. Certainly, you know, to
to win around I think they could do that. And
and that's not something that you could take for granted
when you haven't made the playoffs, and as long as
this franchise has gone without making them without lebron Um.
But you know, there there's a part of me, there's

(29:26):
a slight part of me that wonders could they get
by in a playoff series or even two maybe without
going to get like the quote unquote three and D guy.
If they use mobli as as that guy, you know,
he's obviously versatile enough to do it. Um. You know,
we've all heard the comparisons, and we've all written about
the comparisons with you know bicker Staff has made to

(29:48):
Kevin Garnett and the schemes that they used. It kind
of um draw from some of the stuff that bicker
Staff U saw when when Garnett was there in Minnesota. Uh,
Kevin Garnett could have guarded small forwards and his Evan
Mobley can certainly do that and still make life hell
for for guys that would project to be you know,
wings and certainly be the best defender out there to

(30:09):
do it with who they have. UM. So I do
think that I am kind of more convinced of that.
I mean, it's it's hard not to watch the guys
sometimes and just be in awe. The eight block game
that he had against Detroit, UM with no fouls, uh
is like remarkable. I know it's Detroit. I know Detroit
is not good, but eight blocks with no fouls uh,

(30:31):
the way he moves his feet um. And to get
back to what I was saying before about why I
think Cleveland has been able to make it work and
not Atlanta, not Minnesota. But the staggering, UM. Staggering can
hurt you sometimes like it offensively. Staggering generally is a
is a boost for you if you've got a couple
of star players out there together, particularly if they play

(30:53):
the same position or something close to that. Um. But
think about the way Cleveland is able to stagger. They're
able to stagger their guards if they want to do
not defend all that well, they can stagger their biggs.
They can play both bigs together with one of their
small So it's a it's just kind of a wrecking
ball of a team that, like you said, has that

(31:16):
one hole. Quite frankly, even with that, you know, Carris
LeVert is maybe right, He's not my favorite archetype there necessarily,
Like I think he had a forty one point game
and then had like, you know, four the next night
in the Celtics a couple of times. Man, that was funny, right,
and which is why I think that I think they

(31:36):
beat the Celtics both times, but I remember correctly, So
I mean there's that aspect of it. So like you
could do worse there. I think you would prefer to
have someone that could be more of a defensive stopper.
But they're the best defense in the league statistically, so
there's that They've been fine. When Dean Wade plugs that
hole is now out now I think, and you know,
Lamar Stevens has been fine um as a four for them, um,

(32:00):
so they have They're gonna get Ricky Rubio back relatively soon,
so they're gonna have even more, um, you know, order
to be able to play two point guards at a time,
no matter who's out there too, to lead guards at
a time, or two you know, four generals at a
time if they really want to. It's a really really
good team. And I don't think they're going anywhere, you know,

(32:23):
whether it's the three that they finished in or the four.
Who knows, maybe the Bucks have an injury and and
Cleveland becomes a two seed, um, but they're gonna be around,
and I really don't worry quite as much. Maybe again,
maybe in a playoff series, but I think that having
Mobli out there and kind of a Swiss army knife
of a guy out there, and all the the luxuries

(32:45):
they have from a staggering standpoint, um, both big and small,
that it's just a team that you know, if Mitchell
I imagine he's gonna come back down to earth a
little bit, his numbers are for him, or just two
from three on the volumes, it's gonna come down something
because honestly, that was one of my questions for Cleveland

(33:06):
was like, do they have quite enough shooting to be
an elite, elite offense and if he's gonna shoot anywhere
near the answer is a very like clear yes. Um.
If he was closer to like his kind of career,
thirty five, maybe a touch over thirty six. Um, you know,
I think they could be okay. But if he's gonna

(33:27):
shoot anywhere near forty, they have the potential to be
an elite team. And that's kind of what we've seen
so far. Um, it's incredible, how you know, basically making
one more shot for every twenty or so you take,
which is essentially where he is field goal percentage wise. Um.
How big a difference that makes for somebody like him.

(33:47):
But it's a big difference. And uh, you know, especially
when you put him in a defense that has not
only taken you know, has not only not taken a
step back from what he had in Utah, but again
the top of the league so far defensively. You you
take that and you put Mitchell into that group with
another all star level point guard who's young, and like,

(34:08):
I'm not quite sure what to think of them for
the rest of the season as far as like, are
they a clear cut contender? Do they have a good
chance of winning a championship? But you have to feel
great about it. Like all the questions we have about Minnesota,
it's the opposite, like Cleveland's futures have to be off
the charts for next year the year after, not this year.
I think they're in fantastic position their third and net rating.

(34:31):
Right now, they're one of the few teams in the
league top ten in both offense and defense. I mean,
they're just by the skin of their teeth number ten
UM in offense, their number one in defense. They've overtaken
the Milwaukee Bucks by a healthy margin. UM. By the way,
I think I didn't bring up this team. I think
we're gonna do a deep dive on them next week.
The Pelicans have just charged up out of nowhere, the

(34:55):
first in the West, second and net rating. You know
that that again, this has just been such a weird season.
The Dallas Mavericks, who a week ago we were like, uh,
their sixth and net rating. Their defense is eleventh and
their offense is seventh. Like there are some teams now,
I think Boston has the profile. Obviously of a championship team.

(35:15):
You could argue Phoenix does. You could argue the Calves do,
Memphis certainly, Like now we're starting to see the teams
that are top ten in both offense and defense, and
it's it's a pretty surprising list, um, to be honest,
But Cleveland's defense. It's funny that you mentioned Mobley because
you brought up how Kevin Garnett could guard small forwards
his day. I think they I wish they made Mobile

(35:39):
a perimeter stopper more often than they did. I don't
think that they've made that his kind of role just yet.
It's not like Spurs Kauai or it was like we're
bringing you into guard the other team's best guy. And um,
you know, obviously so much of his value you mentioned
the eight blocks against Detroit, so much of his values
what he can do as a help defender off the ball, um,

(36:00):
you know, kind of roaming around, getting into the paint.
But I do wonder when they try to get him
some more considerate reps, like I remember when they did
that playing game against Brooklyn last year. It's not like
it was like, hey, moldle go guard k D. And
I think that he has the physical tools to be
that guy. Certainly, Um, it just hasn't happened yet, But

(36:23):
I mean, yeah, man, third and net rating a really
good defense. I think their offense has room to grow,
especially if they can find another solid shooter. Like it's
gonna be tough because they're gonna I think it's gonna
be almost impossible for them to escape a second round
series with Milwaukee. And it's hard to imagine them knocking
off Milwaukee the first year of this experiment. But hey,

(36:45):
I mean, we saw them. They lost Middleton last year.
We've seen you honest sprain his ankle before in the playoffs.
But they're good man. You know, I'm gonna try to
look it up while we're talking about them. I know
we're probably about done with that conversation. But they were
also really, really, really good last year in terms like

(37:06):
this time last year, I'm nearly certain what are we
at now December nine when we're recording this, So let's
go to December eight. They had the best They had
the best net rating in the East season two, so
it's really not I think part of the reason would
have won last year Jared Allen not got hurt, right,

(37:27):
So here I'm looking at it. You know, we're looking
at basically exactly a year ago. Uh last year. So
they didn't have the best net rating um at that
point that they were at three point two, and I
guarantee you that later they were later in the season
they did have the best one. Let me let me
try to scale it a little bit differently, and we'll
look at like January two, so like almost at the

(37:51):
All Star break. Um, this is how podcasting gets done. People.
This is it we got, this is this is what
this is right now from Chris Harring. What I left
to see this is we're just excited about this team. Man,
like this. Yeah, you know, so I pulled I pulled
it up. So they had the best net rating in

(38:12):
the East last year. Uh it almost a five and
a half net rating. Um. The only teams that were
better than them this time last year, not this time
last year, at January last year were Golden State, who
was at eight point seven, which would be an omen
of you know, I think sign of things that come. Utah,
which was on the cusp of falling apart at seven

(38:33):
point six, and Phoenix, who obviously ran away with the
you know, with the standings where they were almost ten
games better than everyone else. Cleveland was right but behind
those teams. They were in front of Miami, who would
later become the one seed. They were in front of
the Bucks, they were in front of Memphis, they were
in front of Dallas, all teams that I think finished
with top ten net rating. So they were right there
until they started to run into injuries. And you know,

(38:55):
I think Mobili hit a little bit of a rookie
wall um at one point last season. But they I mean,
they were right there. And then they added Donovan Mitchell. Yes,
they lost Lowry Market and who obviously deserves to be
and uh most improved conversations and stuff like that, but
the core of the team is still the same, and
you added Donovan Mitchell. Uh, it shouldn't be stunning that

(39:17):
they're good in net rating because they were last year.
And again, I think of the teams that made these
huge shifts last year or during the off season as
far as an acquisition was concerned, because they brought in
a star, they made the most sense in terms of
pit in terms of which team made the most sense
for them to truly go for it, to push all
their chips in Cleveland was that team because there was

(39:40):
a role that Donovan Mitchell could feel right away, and
you had the guys to kind of make up for
his deficiencies right away. Um, so it's not stunning, you know.
I think it's more a question of like how soon
is too soon. It's hard for teams that have never
played together. Um, you know, I guess earlier Mitchell hasn't
played with them to make that jump all at once
to where their winning playoff series. We didn't see it

(40:01):
with Memphis, although they did win the play and beat
Golden State, Like, we didn't see them win a playoff
series right away. Um, it's rare to see teams make
that jump right away. Uh. But you know, if there
are two or three seed, they should be in position
to win their playoff series. Um, it would be a
little bit of a taller test to try to win

(40:21):
two because of what you were just saying about, how
you know a second round would just be a blood
bath with them and whoever else, especially if it's a
team like Milwaukee that is really experienced. But um, they
should be around. There's really no reason they shouldn't be
unless they have a couple of really bad injuries or something.
Like that all says. I was laughed at, harangued, ostracized

(40:42):
by certain former friends of this podcast in our group chat.
And when I said I think Cleveland has a good
chance to make the conference finals, and here we are,
and I'll say is if they if they somehow knock
out Boston in the second round, which is not impossible,
that Milwaukee somehow gets to the one seed, that it
will be the s I will have to fire me

(41:02):
because of the amount of ship I'm talking. Um, Um, Chris,
I want to wrap up. Uh, I think well, I
think to put up on it. I think we're both
very high on the Calves. They made a home run
move with that Mitchell trade. He signed for two more
years after this one. He seems to be happy there too.
Like it's just it's working on every level, and I'm
really happy for that franchise. Their games are great, the

(41:26):
energy and the crowd every single night is awesome. So
it just is worked on every level and they're going
to be a force, and I think they're going to
be a force for the next few years, right up
there with the other great teams in the East. Let's
get to this email. Um, this was a fun one. Hello,
Open Floor team. My favorite basketball spotlight of the season

(41:47):
so far is the Beam. I google it regularly and
I'm never disappointed. Um, I see who lights up to
be even how big the crowd is. I'm not even
from Sacramento lately. My favorite story is how the Beam
is listed as a place of worship on Google. I
love reading all the reviews. My question is, has there
ever been a team initiative that has captured the fan

(42:09):
imagination like this one? Thanks Ellie. First of all, Ellie,
thank you so much for writing in. We love talking
about the Beam. Um this, I'm totally beam pilled. I'm
a Beam fanatic. I'm a Beam like evangelist. Um, every
team should have a Beam. Uh. It's a good question, though,

(42:31):
can you think of a team initiative that has like
been as successful or memorable as the Beam? Like I
can't think of one. Like every team does the miss
in the NBA, because you know, I was gonna come
for your Miami Hurricanes for a minute with the turnover
chain or whatever turnover chain was sick, and then everyone
not only was the turnover chain sick, it was then

(42:54):
like every single team had to have a turnover thing.
So It's like the would make to the turnover chain,
but then it's like, we have a turnover backpack. We
have a turnover bong. It's like, you know, it's like backpack.
It was so embarrassing that really that's so corny. I'm
so all the all the hate that was got on

(43:17):
the turnover chains, like every team tried to have it,
which is what made it so much more funny. So
I'm gonna say this. I wrote about hell I was
at I was in Milwaukee, um, two days ago to
watch the Bucks beat the Kings. But you know, I've
written a story even in the last two weeks that
the Bucks have been my favorite team to watch this year.

(43:39):
I've really enjoy watching them. I I think I have
a soft spot for teams that go through um, not
the teams like in modern you know, in real time,
but just historically for their fan bases that survived through uh,
you know, our force to kind of live through long droughts. Obviously,
I wrote the book about the nineties Nicks, and I

(43:59):
think I even said on this podcast that, um, when
I was looking at second projects to do, you know, naturally,
You're like, Okay, what can I write about that would
be in the same vein. The Kings have had the
most parallel history to the next since the two thousands,
where they've had a record long drought. Now of um
you know how long has been since they've reached the playoffs.
So I thought about that. So, like I said, I

(44:20):
think there's a soft spot that I have for whether
it's the Kings or their fans or what have you.
Um that said, I think the beam is amazingly Are
you about to Oh my god, are you about to
come out against the beam a man again? Chris unplugged.
I'm not coming out against it. I think I was
like a little bit underwhelmed when I realized that they

(44:41):
don't actually shoot the beam from the top of the roof.
They have like some like truck or some little vehicle
that has like a little projected like thing that they
sit behind the arena that shoots it in the sky.
Oh you know that. I I thought it was shot
up from the roof. I'm gonna be honest, I thought

(45:03):
it was being unless I'm unless I just saw something somebody. Yeah,
maybe somebody was using a laser point of this really
damn strong and just shooting it into the sky. But no,
I like it very much. Was one of those like
if you've ever seen The Wizard of Oz and it's
like pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
sort of thing where you think that it's like actually

(45:24):
a wizard and it's like not's just this dude that
has some weird thing that projects his face onto a screen.
I was a little like blown by that. I was like,
really like I thought it was. I thought it was legit,
like sending something in the outer space from the top
of the roof and it's like, no, this is actually
something that's on the ground that they're shooting up with
like a vehicle. I was like, damn, Like the same

(45:45):
way that you would feel like it would be cheapened
a little bit if someone were using a three D
laser pointer to like project the Batman image into the
sky or something like that, Like it's not the same,
like you gotta do it from I was a little
blown when I saw that, But I I used the
whole caveat the whole lead up to say, the Kings
have been so much fun. It is a really fun

(46:06):
kind of gimmick. And I think in particular, while I
might kind of grown if like the Warriors had something
like that because like, y'all win enough, y'all win too
much to do this. The Kings have not won too
much or one enough even to really not enjoy this moment.
We don't know whether they'll make the playoffs, but I
feel so much genuine joy from that fan base, even

(46:28):
since if you remember Summer League where their fans were
bounding out of the stadium the arena in Vegas and
some about we're gonna win forty games maybe, and like
that's actually kind of what this feels like. Is they
might only get to wins. Um, they might just barely
break five hundred, but that would be enough here for
this fan base. It's it's a flawed team. Let them

(46:50):
enjoy this. That's why I had the huge caveat Bass saying,
like I was a little disappointed when I found out
what that was, but it's so much fun that like,
I'm not gonna I don't really care. I just want
to see them have fun, enjoy themselves. Wow, Okay, it
was not expecting a beam truth or segment um, the
truth behind the beam. You won't believe what this reporter
found out about the beam. What are those arts or

(47:16):
at the bottom of a we exactly this outbrain. Um wow, okay, um,
I can't think of another team initiative that's been as
fun as the Beam. It's like way cooler than like
miss these free throws and you get free chicken nuggets
or whatever. Um. I'm just glad that, like they're embracing it,
they're having fun with it. We need more of this

(47:36):
in sports. Um, like just it's a game, like let's
have some fun, you know what I mean? And I'm
glad that they're having fun. I also want to call
you out because you mentioned how you covered this Bucks
game and you sent the most infuriating tweet of all time.
And I'm glad that you were called out on it
in a group chat because you were like, You're like, like,
Mike Brown just told the most incredible story and I'm

(47:58):
gonna let the Bucks and King the writers tweeted out
and then no one shared it, no one. We're like, bro,
and I'm wondering if you could actually tell that story
real quick on the pod because it's funny. Yeah, So
like a second explanation first, like laying out the context
of why I was like, I'm not gonna tweet this

(48:19):
out when I was on the Knicks beat. It's any
when it's annoying when national guys parachute in and steal
all the stuff. I agree, Oh my god, yes, and
not even just national guys. When I was on the
Knicks beat and kind of the new guy on the
block with that beat, I worked for a newspaper that
didn't like that. Our deadlines were a lot earlier and
we didn't have the same pressure to like report news.

(48:42):
And I'm using news in your quotes that the tabloids
and so in particular, if you were going to write
a story, if you're gonna tweet something that you didn't
you weren't gonna gain much from tweeting it, but you
just wanted to tweet it to like be the first
one to tweet it. The tabloid guys would get furious
with you, like would get furious at you because they
were like, yo, I could have written a whole story
about that, and it could have held until our Sunday edition,

(49:04):
which I could get this done earlier. Now I've got
to come up with a whole different story or just
come up with a BS sort of storyline that doesn't matter.
I could have had this really fun angle, so that
I'm I'm I almost have PTSD from that will say,
I'm all for respecting the Beat writers. I know how
you mean. We're very fortunate in our jobs that we
you know, teams open up their doors for us, and

(49:25):
I try to be very cognizant of the fact that
you don't want to trample over the Beat reporters who
have a much more difficult job than you and I have,
particularly when you're parachuting in which I haven't. You know,
I had not been to a Bucks game since their
title run, since the finals, so I hadn't been there
in a while, and you know, it was you don't

(49:47):
want to There are a whole people that like I
haven't met that are on that beat now that you
don't want to just steal their thunder. It was a
really fun anecdote, so to explain it for you, Um,
Mike Brown, the King's coach, and Mike Budenholes are both
coached in San Antonio as assistants under Gregg Popovitch. Uh.
You know, they were very low level, uh early on

(50:09):
where they both were kind of in the film room
and we're essentially film coordinators and video coordinators before they
became full fledged assistants that's had on the bench and everything.
And so that is a you know, it's kind of
a hard knock life when you're in that role, um,
because you're watching so much film, you're taking notes on
so many things. You're not even having direct communication with

(50:31):
your top boss in that case, Gregg Popovitch, You're you're
largely just kind of you know, filing reports for them. Uh,
and so that was kind of what it was. And um,
you don't really get to see the light of day
because you're spending so much time just cramming, watching game
after game after game, trying to pick up tendencies and whatnot.
So because of that, when they did get to go

(50:54):
to games and stuff like that, they were spending so
much time before after during games trying to logged endencies
that um, they would stay late. They didn't get to
eat dinner at a normal hour. And they were also
broke because those guys certainly at the time, we're not
getting paid very well. So they would give them like
discount cards or free meals at you know, local chain restaurants,

(51:16):
including one called Dick's Last Resort, which is a super
like apologies if this is your favorite place for the
podcast listeners. It's a pretty trashy sort of place. Uh.
Like literally, I was looking up Dick's Last Resort, I
think on Wikipedia just too. I was like, you know,
something about it was really funny, be because I've stepped
in one before and I think ordered to go and

(51:37):
I was like, holy hell, this is trashy. Um. And
that is literally their m O is that. I think
they initially founded it and it was meant to be
like this upscale place, but it was so upscale that
no one wanted to eat there. It was like that
awkward in between, like it's upscale, but it's not so
upscale that you'd want to have a really good meal there.
So they kind of tore it all down, re rebranded it,

(51:57):
and just made it as trashy as possible and um.
But the funniest thing about it was that Mike Brown
would get these discount cards uh from the staff. I'm sorry,
Mike Budenholzer would uh. And Mike Brown would like sometimes
take longer to file his video reports and his film reports,
and he would be like, hey, Mike, wait for me, Like,
don't leave because you're my literally my meal ticket, so like,

(52:20):
don't leave. Before I get a chance to come and
get something to eat too. So they would bond that
way because they would sit and talk about life, about
the game at Dick's Last Resort, and the kind of
the you know, the cherry on top of the story
was that Mike Brown's like, as a matter of fact,
Mike met you know, Budd met his first wife there.
Uh she was waitressing at Dick's Last Resort. And I

(52:42):
for some reason, you know, and again, apologies to everybody,
is not a shot at at Mike Budenholzer's first wife
or anything else. Something about the fact that he met
his first wife waitressing there at a place that, like
I said, it's kind of like to be a little trashy,
like a little bit you know, it's not the first
place you think of when you think about places that
you know, a Roman. It's just buds uh no pun intended. Um,

(53:03):
but it's some reason that was really funny to me.
And then Mike Brown felt the need to be like, hey,
you know, I have a former wife too, Like it's
not me trying to say that that's why the relationship
didn't last something like that, Like it was so funny,
but also just you it made me so appreciative of
like being back in Milwaukee and happening to be there
that night, because you missed so many little stories like that,

(53:26):
being in the locker rooms, having face to face communication
with the coaches and the players, and like I said,
that's the first time been back in Milwaukee. So it's
just such a fun story. And you know, it's just
the Kings are a fun team, and I think Mike
Brown is a fun like He's very serious, but he
has a fun size. He's about his business, but it's
keeping things in perspective and doing a great job with that.

(53:49):
Shout out to Dick's last resort, Um, I guess you will.
If I were you, I would not be eating there
anytime soon. Um, you don't know what they're gonna do
to your food. Just assuming they all listen to this podcast,
Hey man, don't be mad at me, be mad at Wikipedia.
That literally says that was how why y'all were basically
founded the way y'all were found out. It's not my fault.

(54:11):
I'm just telling the job. On that note, that will
do it for today's episode of Open Floor. Thank you
so much to all of our listeners. Uh, please keep
your emails coming open floor mail at gmail dot com.
We will be back with you guys next week. Until then,
please continue to enjoy the NBAC Whoa, whoa What