The Anthony Davis Revival

On today’s show, Rohan and Chris hop around the league to discuss several teams. They start with Anthony Davis’s recent hot stretch and what it means for the Lakers. Then they wonder what’s going on with Trae Young and the Hawks, during which Rohan hits Chris with a nuclear take. The duo also sing the praises of two early season surprises, the Thunder and Pacers, before taking a trip down Pacers Memory Lane

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of Open Floor. I'm Rohan
not gonna joined today by my friend colleague New York
Times best selling author of the book Flood in the Garden,
Chris Harry. Chris, how's it going, buddy? What's good? Magi?
How are you? Bro? I'm in so deep. Apologies to

(00:24):
Daryl Swenson who stays on our neck, but I gotta
I gotta divert again before I as you know, like
you have Michigan football, I have the Miami Dolphins, who
for most of my life, for most of the last
twenty years, have been such a disappointment. I can remember
so many embarrassing Dolphins losses that made me so mad

(00:46):
I couldn't talk to people for days. I will sometimes
go on the radio, local radio in Miami and there's
a show co hosted by Channing Crowder, Miami Dolphins legion,
and I'll just ask him, like, Channing, what were you
guys doing when you gave up the quarterback sneak to
the Texans in two thousand nine? Like that's how upset
I am still about this team and what they've done

(01:06):
to me over the years. And so this year they're
finally having a decent season, finally put together an exciting team,
and I've become so NFL pilled so deep in on
the Miami Dolphins. Herring. Not only did I buy an
NFL football jersey this week, um, the first jersey I've
bought in god knows how many years. The Dolphins signed

(01:28):
like an offensive tackle, um, like a free agent tackle,
and I was like looking up his PFF grade from
the last two years, like can this guy help the team?
And I'm just like, have I become who I despise?
It's like, what it's wrong with me? That's deep? Um.

(01:48):
I will say though, you know, as you're saying that,
I would be front and if I you know, if
I said, I don't think about the two thousand six
late Uh, you know, roughing the passer penalty on Sehn
Crable against Troy Smith at Ohio State went into the
Horseshoe and you know they were both eleven and oh

(02:09):
it was essentially what we just watched, except the you know,
the two thousand six version. I was a sophomore in college. Uh,
and you know, Michigan basically lost the game on that
on that call, So I you know that twenty was
it that Michigan lost a really close gaming. I remember

(02:29):
those players, those sequences, those controversial calls like the back
of my hand, and uh so I get it. From
that standpoint, I do not look at pro football focus
grades when we get recruits in Michigan or I don't
know if there's like a high school or college football focus.
I I don't do that. It's a little bit I've
never really gotten into the recruiting stuff. You said, I'm

(02:54):
more sick than you. You're on You're on sitco mode
from that perspective where I don't get deep into it,
partly just because it's like every the way I see
it more more or less. Uh well, pro football is different.
But like for me, at the college level, a recruit
is gonna take, you know, unless they're that good, they're

(03:14):
gonna take a year or two to really make the
rotation anyway. So it's like I can't really focus on
it's too abstract for me. But an offensive lineman that
they're presumably gonna play, I get it. And the Dolphins
are relevant enough this year to actually care, So I
get it. I totally understand. I appreciate it. I appreciate
you making this a safe space for me to be vulnerable.

(03:36):
For all our listeners out there, listen. If they're they're
basketball losses that stick with you, we'd love to hear them.
Maybe we'll do a whole mail bag episode on on
some of your least favorite losses. Will kill us, Yeah,
Darryl will kill us. But please, you know, send us
your emails open floor mail at gmail dot com. Maybe
there's some embarrassing fan things that you guys would also
like to get off your chest hearing. There's a ton

(03:58):
of stuff that I want to get to on today.
Pot It's an exciting time, i'd say in the NBA season,
things are slightly starting to round into shape. Here some
news that I want to get to this week. I
want to talk about what you've written in your wonderful newsletter,
The Playmaker. Please subscribe if you haven't subscribed to The
Playmaker yet. Let's start with Anthony Davis, who has been

(04:22):
on an absolute tear over the last three or four
weeks now pints in his last two games. The Lakers,
I believe, are eight and two in the last ten games. Now.
They have the same number of losses as the Golden
State Warriors, which is kind of interesting. I think they
have two less wins with those teams have the same
number of losses, which is pretty shocking when you think

(04:42):
about how those teams were being discussed kind of the
first week of the season a D. I think it
was you and I who had the conversation before the season.
I really can't fully remember, but just kind of a
conversation about how will we ever see a D play
at that m VP level again? You know what we have?
This was a guy who we expected great things from

(05:03):
based on his last couple of years in New Orleans,
and we're like, is that guy still there? Lone Bowl?
He's there. I think he's dominating the paint, become much
more active as a screener and roller, taking a way
fewer outside chump shots, and you're seeing it paid dividends.
Absolute matchup nightmare Herring. What have you made a kind
of the a D renaissance? Are you enjoying it? Um?

(05:25):
What have you made kind of this whole? It really
feels like he's maybe changing the fortunes of this team. Yeah,
I mean that's exactly how it's looked. I think really
what I've made of mostly is, you know, some of
what was obvious, which I think we alluded to it
a little bit when we talked about our top one hundred.

(05:46):
He still is capable of being a top ted guy
if he's healthy. It's really that he hasn't been healthy,
or even when he has been, it hasn't been at
the same time as lebron Um. That's been a huge
chunk of it. A huge chunk of it has been
our you know, our constant harping conversations about his inefficiency
from three, which if you stopped taking those at the
rate that he was before, it's not dragging down his

(06:09):
effective field goal stuff. And and the other thing that
we harped on for years, even before he was you know,
a Laker, was just like, man, you gotta take your
ass and go on the post man. You just have
to be a five. And really, this is the first
year we essentially haven't heard him complain about it. It's
the first year where he's basically done it all the time.

(06:30):
I want to say, basketball reference hasn't been of his
been its coming from center this year. Uh. And you know,
let's let's be honest too, like Russ has played better
oftentimes when we see Russ at his best, whether it's
the Lakers or the Rockets or whatever other team you know,
any other team he's played with. It's generally when he
decides he's going to cut threes out of his diet

(06:50):
as well. The way this feels is like the Lakers
have been dieting and they're cutting out the bad foods,
which is it's a team that can't shoot. And you've
got two guys that you know and their minds are
great shooters from outside and they're really not. With a
d and Russell Westbrook, they've essentially taken healthier shots. Anthony
Davis has been able to do it with a little

(07:11):
bit more space because he's not playing alongside another big
or at least you know, a big that would allow
him to be a four um, and it's paid massive,
massive dividends. The shots are better, they're more efficient, and
he's still a beast because he's healthy. And and that's
really been the lynch pin for him for years. It's
just if he's healthy, you want him out there. He

(07:32):
makes you better, he makes you a contender. So you know,
it's it's not overly complicated. I kind of wish it was,
but I do think that it's It speaks volumes about
the fact that when he's this healthy and this good,
that it does force you to step back a little
bit and be like, Okay, maybe the Lakers do have
something here, which brings us back to the most original
point that we've harped on for two years now, which

(07:55):
is that it's still probably makes sense to try to
get rid of us even though he's been a little
bit better, certainly less horriful. He's had good games, he's
saved them in times at times, but you still probably
want to think about that because it makes you think
that the ceiling of this team could be even higher. Yeah,
it's really funny. The last time we talked about Anthony
at length on this podcast, it was really literally Gones

(08:15):
and I running through fake Anthony Davis trades because they'd
read such a low point. People were wondering, is this
kind of their only way to really blow things up?
It is funny we talked about trades they need to make.
I'm definitely on board that they need to trade the
draft picks. I do think you can start to make
the argument that Russ has found the right role on
this team as he's bought into that bench role. I

(08:36):
think he's been a plus for them over all this season,
and you know, could they move a pat THEV I mean,
the problem is they don't really have a ton of
movable contracts to get back kind of the right players
and trades. But you know, can they cobble some guys
together to bring in a rotation piece that makes sense

(08:56):
somehow package the picks that that definitely needs to be
on the table. I think there's no question about that
that they need to be aggressive to upgrade the roster
because of how good A D has been. It's funny
because I wrote a piece orly this year that was
kind of outlining kind of all the bad moves the
front office is made over the last few years that
led to this position, which and the gist of that

(09:19):
story was, if you have Lebron and a D, it
has to be like you have to be doing a
historically bad job to not have a title contender because
of how good those guys are. And that's what the
Lakers are doing. And now what we're seeing is I
think kind of what people expected when they first acquired Russ,
which is Lebron and A D are so good that

(09:40):
they'll find a way to make it work. And I
think a d especially has been so good that it's
impossible for it to not be read being some success.
At the same time, I will say the win over
Milwaukee was really nice. Other than that, they beat the
Spurs three times, they beat the Pistons, they beat the
Blazers without Dame. You know they have I believe they're

(10:01):
playing the Calves on T n T tonight, recording this
on Tuesday, so that's gonna be a great test. You know.
Lebron always I think plays well going back to Cleveland,
that will be an interesting game. But yeah, I am curious,
is that do you think it's still I know I'm
putting you on the spot a little bit and certain
everyone's had this thought. But you know, what are some

(10:25):
of the moves? What's something you'd like to see them
due to this roster? I mean, I think it comes
back to again and it's it's funny. I made that
vow um in my newsletter in like week two of
the season. I was like, I will not write about
the Lakers again in any faster form until they do
something that is worthy of it or like make a move. Essentially,

(10:49):
because we know what the story of this team is.
They've played a lot better. Davis has been m v
P level and so you know, I think they're back
in that phase. Now we're like I can write about
them again and not go back on my word. This
still need more shooting. UM. You know, you get occasional
nights from someone where they're they're better, but I mean
it's still a team that let's look at the number

(11:09):
for the year from three and you know that means
that they've probably been shooting since the first two weeks
of the season, you know, to get to thirty three UM.
But they're essentially still you know, right there around worst
team in the league. And in that regard, uh, Luckily, defensively,
they've they've guarded the three point line well enough to
where it hasn't killed him. They're not getting outscored by

(11:30):
thirty every night from the three point line. But they
still could use more shooting UM. And you know, those
those sorts of guys can be had UM, particularly if
they're one way players like a Buddy Heeled or something
like that. We've obviously heard a lot about him. I
thought it was really funny that when uh, I think
it was the Pistons played against the Lakers that Dwayne
Casey was like, yeah, we got a boy on and

(11:52):
and you can't have it, and it was you know,
it was kind of funny just because it's like, you know,
these guys do go quickly. But I also thing again,
they can be had. You can find guys that are,
you know, on on teams that necessarily aren't contenders, or
even teams that are contenders that just want better two
way play out of guys and so um. You know,

(12:13):
I look at a guy like a Doug McDermott, you know,
guys like that, Like I want to say, the last
podcast we had we were talking about um yaka Peartle,
He's a guy that could be traded. Like, I just
think they're gonna be certain teams that like there these
guys aren't fundamentally parts of their core going forward. Pardle,
maybe you could argue will be for a team like

(12:35):
San Antonio. I don't think McDermott really has to be. Uh,
you know, it's not the youngest thrown out his name
though I like it. We have not we ever talked
about Dug McDermott on this podcast. I mean, it's just
this sort of guy that, like, I don't think any
team is going to be so wedded to the guy
that you can't get them, you know. Um and and
maybe you know, maybe it doesn't even cost you a

(12:55):
first to get them, because no team is so wedding team. Uh.
So you know that That's where I kind of look
and kind of make a face at the Lakers, just
because like you could have gotten some of these guys
without having the fundamentally, you know, shake up your core,
even if you want to keep Russ, uh, you know,
for the sake of not having to get off of
a pick too to do that. So anyway, I you know,

(13:18):
I just I think those are there are enough guys
in the league where you can go find somebody. Hell,
what was the guy's name, Andre what was his name?
The old dude that had the really gray hair, Andre Ingram.
That guy was sick man, Hey man, go get him, Like,
get somebody that can shoot, like somebody that like they
are professional marksman, Just go get them. So, uh, you know,

(13:39):
in all seriousness, No, they have played well. You know,
I did say I was not going to discuss them
until they played better. Uh. Lonnie Walker has been great
for them and one of the few guys that have
shot a good percentage from three. Uh. You know, so
they've been entertaining to watch lately. Anthony Davis has been
m VP level. Like you said, he and Lebron are
playing the way they can play, and they're healthy. There's

(14:00):
no excuse to not be at least a playoff team
of contender. Uh, they've looked more like one. But you
want to start seeing them do it more consistently against
good teams as well. So Cleveland will be a good
test all the Cleveland you know, it's been up and
down too, but it'll be a good test for them. God,
the season is just so weird, man. Like Monday night,
we had the Grizzlies without job Baine and j j J.

(14:22):
Beating the Heat. We had the Pacers beating the Warriors
in Golden State. We had the Sixers with Harden and
Embiede back losing to the Rockets. And we have the
next two teams I want to talk about, the Atlanta
Hawks losing to the Oklahoma City Thunder. Let's start with
the Atlanta Hawks. Who oh boy, So there's Trey Young's

(14:51):
just kind of absent from a Hawks win Friday night
over the Denver Nuggets. Another team that we talked about
on the pod since the two bad losses. They lose
to Atlanta without Trey like Yokich, I think is a
plus seven in a sixteen or fifteen point loss to
the Pelicans because the bench is an absolute disaster. After
I write about the Nuggets and all the things they've done,

(15:15):
is life easier? They lose their next three games. But
let's tay about the Hawks. Trey Young just misses the
game against Denver. We find out reporting from the athletic
Seams and Sam Amick that Tray Ung gets into an
argument with Nate McMillan and decides, there's a result of
that argument to skip the game against Denver. He ends
up playing Monday night in the lost to Oklahoma City. UM.

(15:40):
I wrote about the Hawks earlier this year, and you
know when Kevin Herder was coming back into town. How
you know it's a team that lacks shooting. I didn't
like that move for a number of reasons. It was
a luxury tax dump. You know, we've seen it with
Cleveland for example. They got and get Donovan Mitchell and
the team is really good this year. But you know,

(16:00):
the Hawks go out and get Jon Murray and I
don't I don't really know what to make of them,
to be honest, like they have not inspired a ton
of confidence in me. But let's start with this young situation.
I'm just what was your reaction to that report? I
dropped it in our group chat and nobody responded to me,
which is fine. I'm not upset, but I'm just here
what your reaction to that report was, because I found

(16:23):
it to be pretty shocking. Man who swears he's not
mad continues to say exactly, Um, I don't even remember
seeing that sex. But as you know, I have our
group text muted because I'll be going hay him in
there sometimes. Um so, I I mean I saw it.
I mean it's funny, like there's so much stuff happening

(16:43):
in the league at any given time that you know,
if you ever look at my twitter feed, it's like,
I'm pretty sure last night I tweeted a picture of
a black father holding his baby and asking the baby
to say dad, Dad. He says dadad, and then you know,
the dad shakes the baby with glee and the baby
is squealing like a pig. He's so happy, Just a

(17:04):
beautiful father son moment. You can look at my timeline
and see that you were talking about a meme. Bro
I was like, what was not a meme? But it
probably could be, should be. But my point is, at
any given moment, you can find that an eiven moment.
You can see me retweeting something about politics, um about
you know, the state of the world, what's happening in Jacksonssissippi,

(17:25):
you know, Dion Sanders stuff whatever, you know, also Jackson, Mississippi,
I guess, uh, but also stuff around the league, because
obviously we covered the NBA and uh, you know, I
read tweet. I made a point of retweeting that exchange
with Trey Young and a local reporter in Atlanta because
it was just kind of odd to see and also

(17:47):
interesting from the standpoint of you have a reporter pretty
much asking Trey Young, you're the leader of this team.
There's now been something reported saying that, like, you know,
you were asked to either come off the bench or
not play, and you chose not to play. That's one thing,
But you're the leader of the team. How is it
that you're not even showing up to the game. And
Trey Young, you know, kind of looks embarrassed at the

(18:09):
beginning of the question, like, yeah, man, you know it
was kind of awkward that I got out there. It
was a private matter, like for it to stay private,
and the reporter keeps pushing him, and I feel, however
you want to feel. If you look at the comments
from that tweet, a lot of people are kind of
taking him at the reporter for continuing to push trade.
I did think it was I will say I understand

(18:32):
that press and some people are like, you always got
to be combative, and I just think that there are
moments where if you want to get a thoughtful answer
from someone, it can sometimes help to be a little
bit more thoughtful with the question. Um, maybe that reporter
could have taken a better attack, but we all wanted
to We all wanted the answers to what he was
asking exactly, and it's it's also a good question. And

(18:55):
I think the most middle of the road tweets that
you saw after that was like he pushed a little hard,
particularly after Trey said I want a private matter to
stay private, or it's disappointing that a private matter couldn't
stay fully private. After he said that three times, like okay,
you move on, you find a different way to ask
it with a different tone. What have you but it

(19:16):
was interesting that like for how much credit Trey Young
has gotten and all the ice Train moments and everything else. Uh,
you know, all the attention he's gotten, the fact that
I've written stories about this, that the team has branded
themselves around this man, that Trey Young's persona and the
way he fits in in Atlanta, the city of Atlanta,

(19:37):
one of the blackest cities in America, was low key
part of the reason that the Hawks drafted him and
wanted him over somebody like Luca don Chech is charisma.
It doesn't look particularly good when you essentially have an option,
are given a choice whatever, whether you want to play
or not. It's fine to be there. You are look

(20:00):
that as the leader of the team. You are the
the neon light name on on the board there in Atlanta.
You are the first star superstar. Let me say that
borderline superstar the team has had since Domini Wilkins. They
have gone longer, like ten years, longer than any other
franchise in the NBA without having a guy finished in

(20:22):
the top ten of an m v P race. They
have not had anyone since Domini Quilkins. Uh. The next
closest team I think is the nets and they probably
would would have gotten somebody like Durant you know, Um,
I don't know, but either way, that's an aside. Uh
it matters like why you you can't be there and
and you know, I understand why trade was upset, but

(20:44):
it is kind of an interesting moment where this honeymoon
has been over for a minute with the Hawks, and
quite frankly, when you talk about why it's over, Trey
Young is shooting for less than thirty from three. He's
never been a defender. Every now and then he'll make
an effort, but it's not what he's known for. That's

(21:04):
probably part of the reason they made this trade to
get to Jane Murray, whether he fins or not, is
you need somebody to be able to defend in your
back court because you can't ask, uh you can't ask
DeAndre Hunter guard everybody every game. So they I mean,
they have leveraged everything for this guy already and now
I've leveraged a little bit more to go get Jan Murray.

(21:25):
A good move or bad move, whatever you think. Uh.
So his leadership matters here. The fact that they're going
to continue to tweak this roster around him, maybe by
the trade deadline. He matters here. Uh, it's not good
enough to not show leadership in a moment like that.
So it's a weird situation. It was a weird situation
a year or two ago, right before they made the

(21:46):
trip to the conference finals, with all the guys that
they were gonna need to pay. It was a weird
situation when you had to sell off Kevin Herder uh
for really not much. So it'll be fascinating to see
what happens. It'll be fascinating to see what happens, quite
frankly with Nate McMillan as well, who obviously kind of
gave trade that decision to make in the first place. Uh,

(22:07):
And quite frankly, someone that you know, I think kind
of wears thin on fan bases. After a couple of years,
he had a really splashy first half of a season
where he came as an inter of guy, got him
in the conference finals unexpectedly. It's gonna be fascinating to
see what happens with the team. And I thought for
a while that the Hawks were kind of in one
of the most fascinating positions because they really don't style

(22:28):
themselves as a big market team. Despite the fact that
they have kind of a big market reputation because Atlanta
is flashy. Everything about the arena and when you go
to the games there is flashy. But you know, it's
a team that is still new to kind of being
in the spotlight. And maybe Trey is too. He's used
to the spotlight, but are you used to everything that

(22:48):
comes with that? When you guys start to lose a
little bit? Uh? Does stuff start to crack around you
a little bit? And it'll be fascinating to see what
happens now, Yeah, it really is. You know, it's one
thing it's had a big you that he gets into
an argument with the coach. That happens, right, I mean
we've literally seen Jimmy Butler and Erik Spoelster get into
a almost a physical altercation seemingly on the sideline during

(23:09):
a game. To straight up skip a game when it's
the last time you heard of a team's leader straight
up skipping a game. That to me, that's pretty unacceptable.
And I don't want to be like sportswriter guy who's like, oh,
come on, man, that's like it's a team sport man,
and you're right, like, there's Sunday we said about leadership
and not to be heat culture guy. But you know
when I did that Bam at a bio story and

(23:31):
I asked, Bam, you know what was it like having
you D in your ear before Game three of the
Conference finals last year when BAMD played what was probably
the best game of career and he was like, you
D has picked me up so many times. It's incredible
the impact he can have on winning without stepping on
the court. And these things are impossible to quantify. Maybe

(23:52):
sometimes we make too big a deal lot of them,
but they mean something like leadership means something I think
something that I just goes underrated when we talk about
team sports when you know Erra would reconceeemingly quantify everything
is how do you get people motivated every single day?
How do you get people to buy in? You look
at a team like the Suns the summer they had
coming off the game six seven loss, Like, if you're

(24:14):
Montie Williams, how do you motivate a team like that
that's just had two devastating playoff losses in a row.
All these things are so much easier said than done.
And when you have your star player just skipping a
game like that, maybe I don't think it's a thing
that's gonna derail a season, but it's a bad look.
It's like, why would DeAndre Hunter? And I'm just using

(24:36):
him as an example. I no, you know, it's just
a metaphor here, but like, why would he take Nate
McMillan Seriously, if Trey Young isn't, you know, like it's
just little things that can kind of fester, that can
kind of, um create awkwardness within a team, and you
just need better than that from your star player. And
you mentioned it. He's not playing well this year either,
Like it's the worst season he's at. He's inefficient. UM,

(24:59):
teams are doing a really good job of kind of
forcing him into taking non rim two's and that that's
not good, and he hasn't been good on those shots. Um.
You mentioned this. I kind of put the hot Hawks
in the MAVs in this similar boat in that I
think both of their runs to the conference finals were
fool's gold. And that's not to take away from what
those players did on the court, but the Hawks especially,

(25:23):
it's like, I'm sorry, but they beat a nixt team
that you know, Julius Randall had nine months off before
the season. Other players at seventy days, like I find
the season to be frankly more like UM extreme results
in the bubble. Um. They play a Philly They play

(25:44):
a Philly team that people talk about, what a meltdown
by Philly. It went seven games and it was close,
UM in game seven, and it took like a generational
melt down from a star player for Atlanta to advance
in that series. UM. Obviously young gets hurt, but be honest,

(26:04):
is also hurt in kind of the conference rotess. They
lose anyway, But I just thought that if you really
break that down, that didn't really inspire confidence in me
in their long term prospects. They run it back last
year they get kind of embarrassed in the first round.
My incredibly nuclear take. You're not ready for this? Are
you ready? I can't wait to hear this. Please? Is

(26:25):
there an argument that they should build around Dejon and
trade Trayon? I said it was gonna be hot, baby,
I said, we were talking about me. It was about
ten twelve minutes ago. I just saw that Elmo meme
where you just go that's it's getting cold around the country.
Let me warm it up a little bit with my take. Look,

(26:47):
let me say this. I I'm gonna go back to
what I said a minute ago, just from the standpoint
of it, even if that made basketball sense, which it's.
It's an interesting take, and I don't you know, I
see where you're coming from. Degen is more well rounded.

(27:08):
But again, they they they've built this whole thing around Trey.
You don't even bother with Capella, who was a good player.
It's not saying that you wouldn't have him on your team,
but like when they they mortgaged a lot to get Capella,
quite frankly, and the reason you did that was because
Capella had thrived with somebody like Harden, and Trey was

(27:30):
someone that you know, it's gonna launch thirty five footers,
but also it's gonna take floaters and like hardened. His
floaters look like lobs. And so because there it's like
the picture that you're trying to hit off of where
his curveball and his fastball kind of look the same
angling wise, you know, Like, so they've they've built a
lot of stuff around Trey, not just from a basketball standpoint,

(27:53):
but from a city standpoint and branding Degen Murray you
know who, you know, you've had players like him before,
and n b A, Trey has a chance to be singular.
I spent so much time talking to um, you know,
the Hawks CEO about this idea of you know how

(28:13):
before they got Trey, the idea of Steph and how
he goes into the arena's hours before games to shoot
and teams could damn near have you know, three or
four thousand people just watching that before a game starts
his warm ups, and that Trey was really the first
guy after Steff you know, came along from the college
ranks to really kind of inspire that same sort of

(28:35):
on wonderment, particularly for the home crowd in Atlanta, and
so they knew all that. You know, they saw uh
increases in Jersey sales after getting him. Like I think
that matters to them still. I think that they want
to be not just a team that can win, but
a team that has a marketability to it, because they
also were the team that had like the longest running

(28:56):
playoff streak before they started rebuilding to get somebody Trey.
So I don't you know, a lot of times we're
focused solely on the basketball and nothing else. I don't
think that they would do that. I think Trey would
have to be like this bad for probably at least
another year or two before they would really have that conversation.
But uh, you know, is really talented, and like it's

(29:19):
probably a little bit easier to build a team around
him than it is to build around that it is
to build around Trey. So well, we'll see. But they've
already done so much to try to take the difficult
task of building it around Tray, So it would be
a tear down in a way that at that point
you should have just held on to Herder and other
guys if you're gonna start undoing it around him specifically,

(29:41):
So I think that they're more likely to keep it.
That is a nuclear take, though, and I respected, I
respect where it comes from. Thank you. I can dial
up some heat every now and then, you know. Um
Spoe used to have a quote during Dwayne Wades last year,
um that I think he took from a country song
that's like, I'm not as good as I once was,
but I'm good once as I ever was. That was
me with that take. Every now and then I got

(30:03):
every Yeah, sorry, it's a little bit of a I'll
write it down for you. I'll type it out and
it makes more sense. But every now and then, I'm
you know, I can still dial up the heat like
a late career Randy Johnson that I will say, though,
like I am, they defend really well when Capella is
on the floor. I do wonder Tray long term. Like

(30:28):
the Bucks famously like don't hunt mismatches. The Knicks were
a bad offensive team. The Sixers are not going to
like not post Embiid, but like the vast majority of teams,
curious to see how Tray over the course of his
career holds up defensively in the playoffs um and what
he kind of does to make it mitigate some of
the concerns on that end of the floor if we're

(30:49):
talking basketball, because yeah, I just they should be better
than than what they are considering they went out and
got Murray. And you know, let's talk about the team
that beat the Hawks on Monday night, because you wrote
about them in the Playmaker this week. That would be
the Oklahoma City Thunder, who are not great. But this

(31:12):
is at another one of those teams that when you
watch them on League Pass, for the most part, they're
so competitive that I think you kind of assume that
they have more wins than they actually have. UM, the
Thunder are eleven and thirteen, which is not bad. I
mean they're ahead of the Lakers in the standings right now, UM,
half game behind the Wolves. They're one and a half

(31:35):
games out of the last planning spot behind Golden State. UM,
only one game behind Golden State in the lost column.
But just when you think about how good Shay has been, like,
they're they're having a decent season. I mean, in many ways,
they're kind of every bit of surprising as the Jazz.
Those two teams have gotten a lot closer in the
standings lately. UM, tell me what inspired you to write

(31:57):
about the Thunder and the Playmaker this week? UM, you know,
what have you seen from them that you liked? What
caught your eye about? Okay, See, I think on the
most basic level, I'm very pro every year, if you
go back and look at like my early season archives
from here when I was at the Wall Street Journal,
ESPN and five three, I'm always very pro. Let me

(32:18):
write about this team now early in the season when
they're interesting, before they fade, because you always get some
early season weirdness. UM, and so particularly smaller markets, particularly
teams that kind of come out of nowhere. But if
you go back, you have to go back a while.
But Michael and I did a podcast, i think during

(32:39):
the off season in which I said, Michael, Michael Peanu pa,
former friend of the podcast, we ain't friends around here
no more. Um. But I remember saying I remember he
had a reaction where he legitimately said who almost exactly
the same way you did, where I was like, you know,
Oklahoma City, if they mess around a little bit and

(33:00):
they decided they want to accelerate this even a little bit,
they could probably be a playoff team next year. And
Michael was like what, And I was like, yeah, like,
you know, maybe it's a little bit ambitious. Maybe that's
like my Trey Young Dejan Murray take that you just had,
or maybe it was. But you know, the thing is
they're pretty so they're pretty much so intentional about not

(33:22):
going for it right now. How young they are, all
the first round picks, they have all the things that
can convey if they just keep losing for a little bit, uh,
that we kind of forget that if they decided they
really wanted to go for it, that they have more
assets than anybody else in the history of basketball. Pretty
much to go get it. Uh. They have now a
guy that is playing like m VP level basketball and Shay,

(33:45):
and they have a bunch of other guys that are
good contributors. Now, you know, would they struggle if they
were in a play if they did make the playoffs,
you know, they'd get swept, probably because they're really really young,
Like they don't have that sort of experience. But they
have great athleticism. They drive to the basket like ten
or twelve times more per game than any other team. Um,

(34:07):
they defensive rebound like crap. I mean, they're bad at that,
but they do a lot of other little stuff. They
basically forced more turnovers than anybody else. Uh. And you know,
despite the fact that they give up a lot of
rim points or points in the paint, they are actually
holding teams under their averages when you know, when they're
defending in close range. Despite the fact that they really

(34:29):
don't have like a traditional big man. Uh. You know,
they've got guys that are like six nine playing center.
They've got Poku who's seven foot but he's like two
hundred pounds. Uh. So they're also playing without the guy
that they drafted at the top of the draft. Who
would help with some of that. So could you imagine
if they had chat? Well, when I said that I
thought that they could potentially be a playoff team, I

(34:50):
thought that he'd be there. You know, it was before
the pickup game they got hurt in so you know,
it's a little crazy, but that was what prompted me
and want to write about it. Is like if they
decided they actually want like it would be like if
somebody was really frugal and then they decided to like
that they're gonna cash in on all the savings that
they were putting aside. Like that's kind of what this is. Um,

(35:14):
you know, so it's it's surprising, but they have a
very clear style of play. Jalen Williams, by the way,
their their rookie guard is so much fun and so good. Uh.
The factor and that they have him who he had
like twenty seven and whatever he had the other night
against the Spurs in a game where she didn't even
play and they came back from twenty down to win. Um,

(35:35):
they've had seven comeback wins of ten points or more, uh,
where they came back from seven ten points down to
win already. Of the eleven that they have. Uh And
you know, Polko is actually showing some NB not m
v P skill, NBA skill, Like he actually looks like
he might belong as opposed to just being like an
NBA Twitter guy. Uh. So I'm really intrigued by them. Again,

(35:59):
it won't be this year for them. They they've got
the six toughest schedule left in the league, and the
five teams ahead of them are all teams that are
gonna go for it a lot more aggressively than they are,
So it won't be this year. Like, I think you
can probably pencil in Shade to miss more games. He's
played in all but two in the last couple of years.
He's missed like sixty three combined, So he's gonna miss time.

(36:19):
Just if I had to guess, it would be like saying,
and Bead will probably miss time or something. I mean,
there's a couple of those Shade. I do think there's
a little bit of a tank job, but the way
they held him out of course, but like, I don't
doubt that they'll They might do that here too, just
because you know, that's the conversation that gets to be
a little bit uncomfortable when you talk about the Utah's
and the San Antonios and the and the Pacers. Quite frankly,

(36:40):
you mentioned earlier, uh that these teams are, you know,
they're better than we were expecting them to be. They've
already gotten more than halfway to their you know, projected
winds totals a quarter of the way through the year.
So they're either gonna keep winning at that rate and
missed the playoffs likely, or they're gonna realize and say, like, well,
we're gonna miss the playoffs, so it makes sense to
miss the playoffs and be one of the best teams

(37:02):
to miss the playoffs, we might as well just slow
it down. So I wouldn't be shocked if they do
that with Shay, although again, he's having like an m
v P level campaign. He leads the league and clutch points,
he leads the league, and free throws made. It would
be a little awkward to just sit him out at
this point. But they've got a lot of young talent,
a lot of playmakers. They've got, uh, a lot of

(37:24):
guys that can run the floor. They've got guys that
can space the floor as bigs. And that's without Chat
home growth, that's without whoever they're gonna get at the
top of this next draft. It's gonna be an interesting team.
And frankly, for all the tear down that they did, uh,
it looks promising so far. You know. You know, I
don't like giving Sam Presty credit just for finding one guy,
but it seems like they've got several that could be

(37:45):
part of the next iteration of whatever they're doing. Yeah,
I mean, it is funny because it's like, what are
they gonna do with all these picks? You know, who
can they draft? It's the guy they got in the
Paul George trade and Shay Gil just Alexander who's been
the corner so and of all this. He thirty five
last night, didn't hit a single three. Shay doing this

(38:06):
with the spacers quote unquote spacers. He has like mentioned
Jay lennamslu Door, Josh Giddy, I mean, Giddy hit a
couple of big threes in that Hawks game. But these
guys can't shoot. Jeremiah Robinson Earle, who started for them
against the Hawks, is like the best shooter they have
right now. Maybe um and shout out to Robinson or all.
That's no shade, Like bro I was watching the game

(38:29):
last night. I was like he's given the Hawks the
business man. He's a good player, legitimately good player, and
it was good last year too, But you know he's
getting more of a chance this here. Um there. I
really do hope that they make a little bit of
a push because we already know they can't roster all
these first round picks. Eventually, they're gonna have to be

(38:49):
moved for someone or something. I don't know if they
think it's gonna somehow get them to be able to
jump up in a draft. I just don't think that
that really happens in the NBA like it happens in
the NFL, for example. Um, Like, the difference between pick
one and even pick three, frankly is so huge, um
that I don't think they can afford to ship ship.

(39:11):
I don't think they can afford to sit Shay this year. Um,
I don't think that they can pull that off. Like
he's playing too well, you can't stunt his development. This
is this is the kind of guy you hope to
draft in the lottery, Like, this is the kind of
like but we already saw him like play with Chris Paul,
he was really good. Um. I'm intrigued by Giddy. I

(39:32):
wonder if Giddy can ever become even league average from three,
can he get up to thirty three thirty four percent?
That would go such a long way. I mean, he's
a fun player to watch. I love his passing and
you know he can do interesting things. But I do
wonder if it's a little hard, I think to have

(39:53):
someone at that position, um be that poor of a shooter.
He also leads them in rebounding it like some seven
you know, it's it's like it's it's a very weird team. Again,
it's very easy to see how they don't rebound well. Um,
I'll put it this way, because the truth is none
of their guards are great shooters, at least not yet.

(40:13):
Between what Williams has shown so far, Giddy and then
even Shay from three Shade, you know, I was trying
to figure out how close he was. It's like, maybe
we can get into like fifty five ninety. You know,
he's good at everything, but you know, isn't great from there.
Uh So that might be the next step for them too,
is like if they can develop that, because really, when

(40:34):
you look at all the drives they make, they they
rely on their spacing to kind of come from their
big guys, which is like their their team has kind
of inverted from that standpoint, So, uh, we'll see. But
I mean, you would prefer to have a lot of
really good, high level ball handling and hope that those
guys can develop, you know, long range dump shots. By
the way, Giddy hit a couple threes last night, including

(40:56):
one from the logo. You know, like he's got the
makings of something there. It's so early for him and
for everybody else. She's twenty four and is one of
the older guys on this team. I mean that the
league average for this team are the average. This team
is twenty three years old, and they're the youngest team
in the league. So there's so much room to grow, um,
you know, and they've even got room to kind of

(41:17):
you know, margin around the edges to kind of make
a mistake or two as far as guys that just
don't pan out. Um, But if they hit on one
more guy, two more guys, and the next year or
two who really hit and really seemed to be a
fit like the way these first few have, Uh, it
won't take much longer. And I kind of feel like
the rebuild will be complete from that standpoint, and really,

(41:38):
I think if they're doing it right, within the next year,
they are just pushing for a playoff spot instead of
continuing to try to, you know, to just find themselves
high in the lottery. I kind of hope that maybe
we get like a surprise week of games from Chad
Holmgren at the end of the season. I know it's
not going to happen. They're they were just so quick
to rum out for the season. And I remember came

(42:00):
to Rob Mahoney about it and he brought up a
good point. It's like, it doesn't create any pressure for
people to keep asking whence he coming back? But they
could just do a surprise Chad home grin drop. That
would be a lot of fun. I want to talk
about one last team who also won Monday Night. I
mentioned them earlier. The Indiana Pacers go on the road
and smack up the Golden State Warriors. Now, yeah, I

(42:21):
don't want to I don't like to read too much
like the regular season is meant to be a slog.
Teams are gonna lose games they shouldn't lose. It's not
a game played on paper. It happens every year. But
first and foremost, I got rightfully called out Gons and
I gave a quarter season awards a week ago, So
it's like, how did you not even mention Ben Matherin
for Rookie of the Year. And I'm like that was
a massive oversight. He's been sick, but it's maybe not

(42:44):
even the most exciting rookie on the team. Like now
we got the Andrew Nemhard train just coming pulling into
the station. Um, they've been good, man, They're like firmly
in the top six of the East. Another team that
I think people were expecting I'm gonna turn into a
tank squad. Obviously we know so much about Haliburton, but

(43:04):
I think Miles Turners having a pretty good season. Um,
they got these intriguing rookies. I am curious that they're
not really like they don't really play Nemhard, Mathin and
Haliburton together. I wonder if we'll maybe start to see
a little bit more of that, just see, way, hey,
what do we what can we get? How did this

(43:24):
three guard look? Um? Yeah, man, what have you made
of the Pacers so far? It's a team that we
over the last couple of years even haven't talked too
much about on this podcast. But they've been right up
there again one of those surprising teams to start this
NBA season. Incredibly incredibly fun. Um. You know, I find

(43:46):
myself just watching a lot of their games because you know, again,
I feel like I kind of lean heavily on the
teams you're gonna almost be paying more attention towards the
end of the season and the teams that are good,
just because like, Okay, you're looking at stuff for playoff
matchup us and you know, um, different things like that,
you're trying to analyze those things. Uh. And also not

(44:07):
to mention that because guys are teams are sitting so
many guys out towards the end of the season to
rest them for the playoffs, to just kind of load manage. Uh,
the first half of the season always kind of feels
more important to me, uh than the second half. You you
you end up seeing everybody make a statistical jump towards
the end of the season when guys kind of take
their foot off the pedal because they don't want to
get hurt. Uh. So I paid a lot of attention

(44:30):
to these young teams because of that early on, and
the Pacers have been maybe the most fun to watch. Uh.
I put them right up there with the Kings unexpected wins. Uh.
You've got you know, three and four games streaks with
with Haliburton where he doesn't turn the ball over and
goes for thirty or forty assists. Uh. And you know

(44:51):
it's just a dynamite shooter. On top of it is
you know, making more of a concerned effort to score
and look for his own shot. Uh. Mathrein was a
guy that I he was my Rookie of the Year
before the season just because he was averaging twenty a
game in preseason. I don't make a point to watch
much in college basketball, but you know, watched a game

(45:12):
or two of Arizona's in the tournament, and I remember
there's one where Arizona just look dead in the water
and he just shot them back into it. It took
the game to overtime just because he kept making shots.
And I was like, this guy does not look scared.
And he has a few moments every now and then
where he looks a little bit gunshine now with the
pacers where he maybe passing up a shot, but just

(45:32):
you know, there's no other way to put it, like
he just kind of looks like a man out there,
and he looks like someone that's been playing for five
years going at guys. Uh. You know, just like the
confidence with which he generally plays, and I think that
kind of kind of combined with the fact that he's
playing with somebody like Halibert that will get him the
ball even though Matthrein comes off the bench. It's just

(45:53):
an interesting group that that speaks to why he and
neim Harden and uh Haliberton will play together all that much.
But it is something that's worth exploring for them. You know,
Like we were saying about uh a minute ago, with
kind of the inverted lives Oklamba City has, You're able
to use some of that with Miles Turner, who's been
shooting the ball really well, so it opens up more
for the guards. Uh. It's just a really really fun

(46:15):
team and you're not used to Indiana having that. What
I would say about them is that what I thought
about a day or two ago is like, this is
kind of the team. Remember when Larry Bird made that
really like jarring comment about Roy Hibbert and he was like, well,
you know, we can bring him back or we couldn't,
but like one way or the other we're going to
play faster, and I'm not really sure that fits him.

(46:36):
And it was just kind of jarring to hear it
because like we knew that Roy Hibbert was kind of
you know, his production was slowing down, his defense wasn't
really as effective anymore because the three point shot was
forcing Biggs to come out of the paint and kind
of defend. But it was like still like Roy Hibbert
kind of was what he did, kind of exemplified what
the Pacers were as far as just like this big

(46:58):
kind of plotting, like not that much offense, but they're
gonna defend the hell out of you sort of team.
And Larry Bird is saying to like anyone who will listen,
he really doesn't fit what I want this team to be.
This I kind of feel like it was actually what
Larry Bird was talking about. Like a fast, like scoring
heavy team that plays with a lot of tempo, that
has a lot of shooting. That's actually what he was

(47:19):
talking about. Now, granted it's coming around like six years
later or whatever, but it's just a fun team that
again I don't know how much they'll win at the
end of the season. By the end of the season,
but count me in for watching them whenever they're on.
You know, the Lakers win was fantastic. Uh, they've had
you know, it was funny when I was looking to
see which teams had more come from behind victories, you know,

(47:41):
where they were down by ten or more. I think
there were only two they had more than Oklahoma City
and I think the Pacers were the other. Uh were
one of the others, And it was just, you know,
they're they're down most of the time, but they don't
stop playing. They play really really hard, and uh, it's
been fun to watch them be good this season. Here's
a list of teams Indie in as ahead of the
Eastern Conference standings. The Brooklyn Nets, the Philadelphia seventies Sixers,

(48:06):
the Toronto Raptors, the Miami Heat, the Chicago Bulls, and
the New York Knicks will throw in for good measure.
They have the same record as the Hawks. It's really remarkable. Yeah.
I think in terms of those three guard lineups, I
always just want to see what happens when a team
plays their best players together. In this case, I think
they're three guards are kind of their most interesting players.

(48:26):
At least I don't know long term that it's a
solution or anything like that, but you know, the Monique gift,
I would like to see it. Um. I didn't know
where you're going with that. I'm really sorry. That's all
right now. You know how I felt when you were
talking about like a dad holding his baby and bro

(48:49):
you brought up Roy Hibbert real quick? Can we talk
about remember when peril on Tich you could see him
shooting Roy Hibbert out of the league in real time,
like Roy Hibbert went from the Lebron stop or to
like wait parallel on Tage might just like in this
guy's career. Yeah, I talked to Frank Vogel like, so
I did a big story on Roy Hibbert, like because

(49:09):
to me, he's one of like you. You could actually
tell a brief history of the NBA, like for a
period of time and the NBA through Roy Hibbert's eyes,
and how quickly the league changed, where all of a
sudden you started seeing Brook Lopez be like a guy
that wouldn't you know that, you know, like one of
those dogs had an electric fence, like he wouldn't step

(49:30):
foot outside of the three point line, and all of
a sudden, it's like he's bombing threes like he's Steph
and that all happened within like what should have been
Roy Hibbert's prime, but he was out of the league
basically by like twenty nine or thirty. Uh. He he
went from being a defensive player of that your candidate
and a max player. He was a max player one.

(49:51):
But I remember Portland's making the max offer sheet for
him and the Pacers, you know, shutting it down and
bringing him back. He went. But we've had a couple
of guys like like Josh Smith. Greg Monroe I think
was another. Uh. But Hibbert had like a skill that
you would have figured will always matter in the NBA,
but he also had deficiencies. And I talked to Frank

(50:11):
Vogel about that. I talked to Paul George about that too. Uh.
For the story, Roy didn't talk to me, but I
was kind of amazed at how open Frank was and
talking about by that point. And I think he was
the coach of the Magic at the time. But he
was like, yeah, like you know, I don't think there
was anything Roy did wrong necessarily, but there were certain
things he just really couldn't do, and the league shifted

(50:33):
and he couldn't adjust to it, and he's like, I
still think he's deserving of a job in the league,
but his role can't be the same anymore. And that
he pointed specifically to that series against the Hawks where
you know the Pacers, where the Pacers the one seed
that year and the Hawks almost knock gonna believe, So
you know it was. It was a crazy, crazy, crazy
time and you know it foreshadowed what was to come

(50:54):
for sure. Dude. He was the lebron stopper, I mean
le bronze practicing floaters that he figure him out. Yeah,
it was you mentioned Frank Vogel. I interviewed him for
a couple of times for a couple different Lakers stories
ever wrote and things. After the end of the Davis one.
I was like, do you mind if I just ask
you some questions about the Pacers Heat series. I'd love

(51:15):
to talk about it. I was such a big Heat
fan and he was so cool. We're talking about those
series and he's very cool to Yeah, he's great, man.
And he said something, he said something funny. So you
remember lebron leaves for Cleveland in two thousand fourteen. The
Pacers are still really good, dude. I believe that was
the peralle Antage here, I believe, and I'm talking to

(51:36):
Frank Vogel about it. That summer Paul George breaks his
leg and yeah, and I was talking to Frank vogue
about and he's like, he's like, I really think we
would have won the finals next year if we bring
back bring back Lance Stevenson and Paul George doesn't break
his leg because like Lebron goes to the Calves, that

(51:57):
calv Stine wasn't quite as good as those teams, right,
and you know Lance, you know, was coming off. I
think that year in Charlotte he led the league and
triple doubles. Um, that was such a strange year. And
then like wasn't he like almost out of the league
The next year it was Evan Turner was getting a
bunch of triple doubles really briefly to with with Boston,

(52:20):
and like it was a weird those and it was
also not to mention like when the cap spiked too
and so you had like really bad contracts on a
lot of teams. Books the league didn't know what it
was doing for like two years. And and and let's
be honest too, the Pacers, you know, I agree with
Frank that like they had a really good chance. But

(52:41):
everybody will tell you. And I think my favorite player
to talk to from those Pacers teams was always David
West because he was just going to give you, like
the most honest perspective he had. He was a leader
in that locker room, and he was like, no, we
we we messed up that locker room. Man, Like we
had a team that could have gone toe to toe
with the Heat, that did go to to toe with
the Heat, and we wanted to like load up, and
so we went out and we got Evan Turner, and

(53:04):
we went out and got Andrew buying hum And I
remember still to this day, like I'm pretty sure Barkley said,
Evan turn Yeah, I was just kind of like what,
you know, like none of us thought that. But but
you know, to David We's credit, he was like, you
can't do that. Like Roy was a pretty fragile dude, uh,

(53:26):
you know, And I think he meant mentally and that
you know, not to not meant any way to take
a shot at his mental health, but just from the
standpoint of like egos and are involved, that the idea
that like, you know, in the way David West put.
It was the idea, like you bring a guy with
that sort of physical presence or just like presence generally
bid him takes up a lot of space. He was

(53:48):
a pretty loud figure as far as you remember the
hair and the way he left the Lakers and the
fact that he got hurt bowling. There was so much
other stuff if you remember that brief, brief, brief time
he had in Philly where I don't even did he
even ever play for Philly. We launched those threes in practice,
I guess, and yeah, man, like it was a weird time.

(54:12):
But basically, you know, David West basically said, we messed
it up before we even really got a chance that
year in the playoffs because we you know, our eyes
were essentially bigger than our stomach, at least the front
office was, and we had a roster that was good enough,
and it's just guys lost their attentions. Man kind of
was lost because you know, I don't know either way,
that team was fascinating. Like I've I've thought for a

(54:33):
long time that that history could have looked a lot different,
particularly of Lebron had not gotten the two titles in Miami,
because you know, the Pacers had kind of dethroned them
or what have you. But it was a really interesting
period there and the Pacers. This is a good place
for them. Again. I don't think it'll be this year
for them that they make it to the playoffs, but
they you know, they're a team that does not have

(54:55):
a history of tanking, and so it's been very interesting
to see that, Like even in a year where I
I have thought that's what they were trying to do. Uh,
they look too good to do that, and maybe it's
time to start thinking about them a little bit more seriously.
In the Eastern what we had just to put a
bowe in my Vogel story, he said, I think we
would have won the finals that next year if Paul
doesn't break his leg and we bring back Lance Stevenson.

(55:17):
And I'm like, man, like you think he would have
beaten the Warriors in the finals. And he's like that
was the first year the Warriors one. I was like, yeah,
he's like, never mind, we just would have made the finals.
God bless incredible. Man. I love that dude. Um, But
that you know what, comments like that, though, are exactly

(55:37):
why as we talk about, like, yo, what's wrong with
the Lakers, And I remember Low saying this on his podcast,
and what he's like, you really think some Frank Vogel,
Frank Vogel who pushed those Pacers teams to seven against
the Heat, the lebron Chris Bosh, the Wade Wade Heat
and then what a title with the Lakers who were

(55:58):
flawed but got like all time performances out of Anthony
Davis and had everything come together at the right moment.
You really need to tell me that Frank Vogel, of
all people, wasn't smart enough to you know, to bring
Russ off the bench or like he knew to do that.
It's that he's worried about the egos that plays, worried
about being blamed for taking Russ's confidence away. He's worried

(56:19):
about the higher ups and the powers that be. He
knew all that. And what I love about what you
just said is just he's so played spoken, like he's blunt.
He will tell you the truth. And that's what stood
out to me is like he was like, yeah, like Roy,
you have to evolve in this league. It's like Evolver die,
and like Roy really couldn't evolve. He should still have
a spot in the league, but like his style of
play was not going to thrive anymore. And I'm like, Wow,

(56:42):
he's saying this about a guy that I imagine he's
close with that is out of the league, and it
was the truth. So I will always respect him for that,
generally speaking, just being able to tell the truth no
matter the circumstances. Absolutely, shout out to Frank Vobo. Shout
out to Pacers, a team that literally was raising my
blood press sure to an unhealthy degree. Um, Chris, that

(57:05):
will do it for today's episode. Thank you again to
all of our listeners. Please keep your emails coming open
floor mail at gmail dot com. Or apologies for doing
this episode a day later than normal. Some scheduling snap foods.
Um yeah, go Miami Dolphins. We've got another big one
against the Los Angeles Chargers. To give you another taste

(57:26):
of how deep in the rabbit hole am I'm at
actually go to an NFL game. That's how That's how
bleak it's gotten from me. You want to know how
deep to bring this full circle? You want to and
the Michigan rabbit hole. So I'm not gonna do that.
I'm not gonna go to the semifinal. I've got something really,
really really important plan that can tell you about offline um.

(57:47):
But if they win the semifinal, which their favorite too
against TCU, I will go to I already have atzel
room book to go to the championship game. You're not
gonna crash with me. You're not gonna crash with me. Uh,
probably not, just because I'm I'm a I'm an upstanding
person that won't make assumptions that I could have your
couch or a bedroom or anything like that. But we will.

(58:09):
We can make plans to hang out good mood. But
I also will have the playmaker do literally the night
of the game, so not the best timing. I hope
I can go. I can go straight the playmaker one week.
Don't worry about it, bro, Hey man, this is what
friends are for your Yeah, I'm looking forward to I'll
be rooting for Michigan so that we can hang out

(58:31):
in l A. Chris, thank you. Shout out to our
producer Shelby Royston. Um. We were hoping to do another
Rips and Royson Report soon. We'll get that on the books.
Until then, everyone, please continue to enjoy the NBA. Whoa