What's Causing The Scoring Boom?

On today’s show, Rohan and Chris start by discussing some notable performances from MLK Day, including Walker Kessler’s big night against the Wolves. Then they ruminate on the league’s scoring boom and what it means for how players of this era will be judged. And finally, they dive in deep on the Knicks and what they expect from the team moving forward

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of Open Floor. I'm Rohan,
not Jenny. Joined today by my good friend, the Michigan
Booster who got Jim Harbaugh to stay in ann Arbor,
Sports Illustrated Senior writer and New York Times best selling

(00:23):
author of the book Blood in the Garden, Chris Harrying, Chris,
how's it going, buddy? Dude? You like the the bona
fides that you give me each time we do this
podcasts are like they just literally you topped them each times.
Amount I literally, if you want to know how sick
in the head I am. I literally had a dream

(00:44):
last night about in the podcast introduction. But it was
because you needed a specific plug for the book, but
you felt really ashamed to ask. Just so everyone knows,
Chris never ever ever asked me to plug his book.
I just you know, we do it out of our
love for Chris. So I had a weird dream where

(01:05):
you were like felt really bad because you had to
ask me to plug your book for you. That I
got real desperate out of nowhere, and just man, that's
all that is a super specific dream have for something
never asked you guys to do. But I think it's
because I went to sleep thinking about what are we
gonna talk about on the podcast tomorrow? You know, you
know what I mean. Well, I'll have a connection to

(01:26):
the book, I guess in some ways. But the book.
By the time a lot of people are listening to this,
I think it'll be exactly one year since the book dropped, which, Um,
time flies. Man. But but again, you know I said
it on this pod and just in general, really really
appreciative of everybody that's supported and it's been more successful
than I ever could have imagined as far as the

(01:48):
number of people have bought it, that the way people
have responded to it. The stuff that's kind of like
happening is an offshoot to it is you know, we've
talked about the stuff with Spike in the document. How
come you haven't put me, you and Spike on a
group chat yet? Uh? Probably because I think Spike gets
overwhelmed with with people generally speaking. I think I was

(02:09):
telling you about that. Um. He had me sit with
them courtside actually this time last year at the next
game on MLK Day. Um, and just a number of
selfies and autographs and everything that he's asked for. Like
it's it's actually not that I needed to be able
to like have uninterrupted conversation with him about anything that deep.

(02:30):
But he like literally can't just sit and focus on
a game or watch, you know, like enjoy a conversation
with someone because everybody wants a piece of him, which
is probably how being a celebrity works, and it's probably
cost the cost of that. But uh yeah, because of that,
there's times where even all like reach out and we'll
have like a really really clear conversation going via text

(02:51):
or email or whatever, and then it's just like no response,
and it's like I can't even be mad. He's Spike Lee.
Um so I'm I'm I'm a tread lightly before I
start kind of producing the people from my life in
his life, because I feel like he's barely got enough focus,
you know, just for for me and the stuff that
we've got going on. But well, if he didn't want
to be bothered so much, he shouldn't have made those

(03:13):
movies that were so good. I'll tell him to do
the right thing and open up his world a little bit. Yeah,
that was a really bad anyway, Moving right along, bad
some of the heat I've caught for segues and intros
in the past that was right up there in terms
of the worst of them. Chris, we got a lot

(03:35):
of things we would like to get to today or
past the halfway point of the NBA season. Uh, there's
a couple of things I want to get to. I
guess I'll ask you real quick. Was there anything you
wanted to talk about from the MLK Day games. Um,
we had some good finishes. I mean, nothing too crazy.

(03:56):
I just wanted to throw that out in case there
was anything fun that caught your eye. Well, yeah, I
mean I think that there's a couple. Uh, and you
know in that I'll kind of include like MLK Weekend, Uh,
just because there are some teams that played Saturday as
opposed to I'm sorry, Sunday as opposed to Monday. Um,
I think one was cool, Like Walker Kessler is serious? Okay.

(04:18):
I was about to ask you if the Wolves called
the Jazz and said, well, trade you Rudy Gobert for
Walker Kessler, straight up, the Jazz would say no, right, yes,
oh absolutely, Especially I mean think about if you remember
when the whole um Steelmate between the Knicks and the
Jazz was going on for Donovan Mitchell. Remember that the

(04:40):
Jazz like essentially kind of didn't really really really want
r J. Barrett. I mean, obviously NIXT reportedly offered him.
And the reason that they would have said no to
that because I assume most teams you know, that are
rebuilding would of course you'd want to have like an
r J. Barrett, Like even if you don't think he's great,
he's good, he's got the unchild to be UM an

(05:01):
All Star over his career. Um, the only reason you're
saying no to something like that is that you don't
want to take on his salary, so multiply that. But
what by whatever, how much more Rudy Gobert is making
and r J Barrett um aside from the fact that
if you're the Jazz, you've already uh you know, you've
already yeah, you know, like so just not to mention

(05:22):
that Walker Kessler's production offensively is probably gonna dwarf whatever
Rudy does very very very soon dwarfed it. Uh in
this game they just played, but you know, Rudy wasn't
um wasn't healthy and didn't finish the game. But uh, yeah, Walker,
and I mean it's not just now like Walker Kessler
is you know, has been a premier shot blocker, he's

(05:43):
been one of the best rebounders in the league. He's
got an offensive game, he's got good footwork. Um, he's mobile.
Uh yeah, this was you know, and I've been critical
of this before from where I sit where teams. It's
one thing when you trade picks. It's another when you
trade when you essentially trade a guy that you've drafted too.

(06:06):
Because this trade happened after the draft. Uh it was,
what was it a week or two after the draft,
whatever it was. So at this point, this is a
guy that you know, the Timberwolves have just scouted and said, like,
this is the guy we want, so to to trade
whatever it was five picks and pick swaps or you know, combined,
and then also trade the guy that you just picked

(06:26):
that you believed in. Um, I'll be damned if I'm
going to be criticized not only for bringing someone a
town that like wasn't worked it, but also like that
I went out of my way to identify the guy
that I think this team needs in Walker Kessler and
then trade him away and watch him like basically gritty
all over my team. But no, no, thanks, it's a

(06:49):
hard no and uh so Yeah, yesterday had to be
really frustrating for for Timberwolves fans from that standpoint, not
to mention they had twenty points one rebounds and that,
you know, Utah wins the game by one point. Walker
Kestler is the JIT man. We were joking about him
in the group chat, but I like, did they maybe
upgrade at center? I I don't want to pylon. Gobert

(07:13):
did not mean to turn this into a Gobert pylon.
The version of Gilbert that the Wolves traded for is
not the version of Gobert we've seen the last couple
of years. And it's like the Walker Kessler thing just
makes it feel even crazier that this all happened. Yeah,
to your question from before about what else stands out,
and I think it'll probably segue into part of what

(07:33):
you wanted to talk about today. It's just the you know,
Lebron I think epitomized it. But also Jayson Tatum had
fifty one, um Braun. I mean, he's in his twentieth
season now going for forty eight was it forty eight
nine and nine or forty eight and nine or whatever
it was. Granted it's the Rockets, Granted, you know, Um,

(07:55):
the neither the Lakers nor the Rockets right now are
are very good. Shongoon had you know, like a career game.
I think he had what thirty three fifteen, uh six
and four or something like that. Um, they need to
start running the offense through him. As another takeaway that
I have, like they should have been doing that. Um.
But just generally speaking, like I'm at a point now

(08:16):
where my head is spinning from the numbers that people
are putting up. Um, whether it's Lebron almost having fifty
at age thirty eight, whether it's you know, Tatum having
had more fifty point games than Larry Bird at age
twenty three or whatever he is. Um, you know, Luca
doing what he does, and it's it's league wide now
where it's interesting. I feel like at one point is

(08:38):
a staff it sports illustrated. We used we used to
kind of be of the opinion, the thought that almost
the expectation that like, okay, for every fifty point game
that someone scores, one of us needs to like stop
what we're doing and write a story about it and
then an analysis piece of you know, a newspiece. Um,
we can't anymore because it's happening so frequently. So granted,

(09:00):
when you get a seventy one point game, you're gonna
write on Mitchell or whatever, but uh, it's just so
frequent now that we kind of have to, I think,
start thinking about these games differently, um, analyzing them a
little bit differently because the scoring is just so high
and so frequent. Um. So, yeah, that's the other takeaway
I've got from this weekend. It's just like I can't
keep my I was focused anymore with you know, it's

(09:21):
like ping pong with with these scoring games. Yeah. Man,
let's get into that a little bit, because I think
that's been one of the two kind of bigger picture
storylines we've seen from this NBA season. We've had this
kind of undercurrent of parody across the league where there
are a lot of good teams this year, and that's

(09:42):
been interesting. Also, real quick, you mentioned the Rockets. Sorry,
I just want to say, so depressing. What a bummer
of a team. Get some adults in there. But in
addition by that, you mean some some more vets on
the team or they need to do something. It's it's

(10:03):
an agreed, just agreed, just tank job and I to
the point where it makes me a little worried about
how those young players are developing. But in terms of
the scoring, I think that's been the other kind of
bigger picture storyline. And listen to the parody. I mean, actually,
we have all these huge scoring nights. I think it

(10:25):
was like fifty guys are averaging twenty points a game.
Then you have these like the stat muse accounts that
will just post you know, slash lines side by side,
and it's like Donovan Mitchell's having the same numbers as
Kobe's MVP season, or you know, this guy is having
Dirk's MVP season, And it to me that says more

(10:49):
about how the game has changed than how good some
of these players are. That's not to take away from
what Donovan Mitchell is doing, but the degree to which
obviously I think we're both an agreement. Players get more
talented over time, but there's also as good as the
best player was in two thousand six, no one was

(11:11):
no one in like two thousand six at the green
light to come off of a high pick and roll
and just take a pull up three whenever they wanted,
like Donovan Mitchell, which is crazy to think about, but
it's just it's just how the game was played no one,
no one under quite understood the value of that shot yet,
and so you didn't have someone pulling up for eight

(11:31):
threes a game. You just didn't have teams taking as
many threes. The defense did not have to guard as
much of the floor, And we've just had this kind
of crazy scoring boom and it's exciting to watch, I think.
On the other hand, it is also it goes up

(11:52):
a notch in the playoffs, but I'm definitely someone who
yearns for teams that went under the defensive end of
the floor. I love watching that style of a school
as well. Chris, are you enjoying the scoring boom? Do
you have thoughts about it? Are you worried about it?
How do you feel about kind of the direction the
game is headed this season? Yeah? I mean it's when

(12:13):
you're watching somebody cook. It's always fun, but at the
same time, when you see so many guys doing what
they're doing, Um, I do feel like on some level
it do. I want to use the word cheapens because
it feels a little strong and it's maybe not fair,
but it you just can't weigh it the same. You
can't view it as such a special thing anymore. When

(12:37):
you've got eleven guys in a month going for fifty
or whatever it's been. You know, I'm just throwing a
random number out there, but I bet it's not that
far off. Um. Hell, I took my nephew and my
sister to the Bull's Words game the other day and
Booch had like forty three points. Um, you know, So
it's just like out of nowhere. These guys are just uh.

(12:57):
I mean, the craziest thing about Donovan Mitchell is that
I think he only had did he even have it
was like, yeah, halftime, he'd like twenty six or something insane.
So I mean that's part of what it is. It's
just like, I mean, honestly, you know, and we've talked
about a little bit on this podcast, the take foul

(13:18):
has sped the game up. You know, you're not able
to foul guys anymore and stop them in transition. I
definitely I want to put a pin in that real quick,
because I agree that that's that's obviously had to have
had some effect. But I feel like they bring it
up on every podcast, on every broadcast. It's like there's
no take foul this year was was the take feel

(13:41):
really suppressing scoring this much. It's just I'm not saying
it's not a factor. It's just it's interesting to me
how many people cited like you just hear it so often.
In my mind, I'm like, was it suppressing scoring this much?
I don't necessarily know if that's what it was. I
think the combination of a few things. I think, Um,

(14:03):
look a lot of these teams. I don't know if
it's more than normal, but it certainly has kind of
felt this way. Um, a lot of these teams have
had their best score out. You know, you look at it.
You know, New Orleans, Boston, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Um, Luca might
as well have somebody out, you know, just with how
singular he is with that team. Um, you know the

(14:26):
bulls Now when I talked about Buchevitch in the game,
he had h DeRos in his misstime. Uh. You know,
all these teams have had a key guy out, and
so it kind of leaves the ball more in the
hands of certain people. UM. You know, we we talked
about the just the pull up nature of the game

(14:46):
when you look at the take fouls and and the
fact that they're not there, and what it will kind
of embolden even more. Um, what do we see you
know that that that drives to get off my lawn
NBA fan crazy in transition and all the time guys
pulling up for threes when they could go all the
way to the baskets. I mean, if someone really has
it going. Um, the idea of a take foul slowing

(15:10):
the game down, it's not, you know, it's it's not
necessarily like one play here or there. It's that the
game just keeps going. And specifically think about a team
like Sacramento where how fast they play that if you
don't throw a random foul in there, that just starts
the game over. You know, after the fifteen seconds it
takes to take the ball out and reset everything, you

(15:32):
could have three possessions before really anything stops, three four
possessions before anything stops, and so you've had so many
scoring opportunities in that time. Um. So I don't know,
it's it's that it's you know, when we talk about
the parody and the fact that sometimes it plays out
on a nightly basis, if you've got a team that's
down five or six points, if they're more games that
have been close this year, you're gonna be sending guys

(15:54):
to the line to extend the game. So, you know,
I think about that a lot anytime I see somebody
like I was actually prize Lebron didn't get to fifty
last night because of how close that game was at
the end that he had like forty three forty four
in the last two minutes of the game, and I'm like, okay,
and the Lakers are ahead by four or five, and
so the Lakers are going to end up going to
the line because the Rockets are going to extend the game.

(16:17):
So that happens in in in the league where you've
got more parody than usual and a lot of really
tight games, seemingly you're gonna have that. So it's you know,
I don't know if there's any one thing, but the
pace has been cranked enough to where it's like, yeah,
if you had guys that were hovering around twenty five points,
which we had a lot of those guys last year,
all of a sudden, you give them three four extra points.

(16:37):
You've got thirty In terms of three point scores, I
think you've got eight or nine guys, And I look
at some of the numbers and are like, em Beads,
Like we don't talk about Joelan Bead enough on this podcast.
It's my fault, but he said, like thirty five a game,
like in Beads having an insane season, and I think
part of the reason people aren't talking about it more. It's,

(16:57):
like you mentioned, so many guys are averaging thirty and
I don't want to take away from like Tatum or whomever,
but yeah, it was a lot different. I'm not like
the biggest, like Kobe was the greatest of all time guy,
but Kobe scoring like seven a night or when he
went off for eighty or when he had the forty
point games, stretches or whatever he was doing kind of

(17:19):
in that in between Shack and pal Era, you know,
like two thousand six or two eight. It was a
lot harder than because people were just weren't taking threes.
The pace was a lot slower, the court was nowhere
near his uh spaced out. This is so I think

(17:42):
I mentioned this before, but the old host of this podcast,
men Goliver and Andrew Sharp, would always joke with me
that I was gonna turn thirty and all my takes
we're going to turn into old man takes. And I
was like, that will never happen to me. I'm row baby,
I'm young forever. But they were right. They were absolutely right.
And one of my old man takes that's now starting

(18:03):
to develop is I'm a little worried about this season
as an inflection point for NBA history. I'm worried that
you and I are going to have to be the
people who explain fifteen years ago, fifteen years from now,
why Donovan Mitchell was in fact not as good as

(18:27):
Kobe Bryant or you know name whoever. We're gonna have
to explain, you know, why Tim Duncan, what's Tim Duncan's
career points for game average is probably around seventeen eighteen
something like that years at the end where he wasn't
We're gonna have to explain why Tim Duncan didn't shoot threes.

(18:47):
So we're gonna have to explain why Tim Duncan would
still be good in the current NBA. I'm just I'm
weirdly a little nervous about what this season and kind
of how hard it's going to be it's to put
the NBA in proper context anymore. Yeah, um, like I
remember when I played, I guess little League Baseball. But

(19:10):
when I started to get a little bit older in
the upper ranges of Little League, and and for like
a couple of years there, um Louisville Slugger started making
these aluminum bats that could have fatter barrels. Um. And
after about two three years, they're like, okay, no, no more. Uh,
just because it makes it impossible to pitch, It makes

(19:30):
it impossible to feel, It makes it impossible to keep
enough baseballs with each team because people are just hitting
them out, you know, out of the yards. Um. And obviously,
you know, we we've had conversations about that with with
Major League Baseball with regards to you know, the home
runs and whether the balls are juiced and stuff like that.
We've been adding in football has done this too. I mean,
it's I think it's just sports in general. When you're

(19:52):
trying to get people to watch and you're petrified of
having Jeff being Dundee rail on you for a whole
broadcast about the different things that make him not want
to watch, you're not as excited to watch. That offense
ends up being advantaged more, just like with football with
all the passing stuff. Over the last few years, Um,
the last fifteen and twenty years. Probably, um, basketball has

(20:13):
had their fair share of that stuff too. End Um.
I probably just sound like to get off my lawn, person.
Or there's someone that wrote a book about the nineties Nicks,
which if you've read it, I don't. I don't really
take sides about which versions better. Like I'm just writing
the book down the middle. But is the book getting
good by the way, I still got to check that out.

(20:34):
I think it is. I I'm obviously a little bigas
but I gotta grab one of the two copies I
have on the shelf and maybe open it. I mean,
I think it informs for you, for you specifically, I
think it informs a lot of the way that heat
played basketball or have played basketball for a long time
because of Riley's DNA. But but you know, I do
think there's something to be said for like there are

(20:56):
ways to curb the scoring, because I do think you're right.
And it's a question of how much does the league
care about that, just like how much did baseball care
about the idea that a lot of guys were gonna
be hitting fifty home runs. If you don't care, then
it's not a problem. If you do, and you you
feel like something is being lost, um, particularly at a
time where the league is trying to figure out ways

(21:18):
to jam more basketball in, you know, and it's getting
pressure to shorten the season or have fewer games. However,
the league is going to be really reluctant to make
a lot of changes. But I do think you're starting
to push towards the upper range. Is like, how how
can you lift this? Go? Are you gonna get to
a point where guys are scoring forty a game UM?
And then it looks ridiculous in relation to something where
most guys were averaging less than thirty UM for so long.

(21:42):
So I I am intrigued by that. I still enjoy
watching it, but I do think that it again, I
can't think of another word other than cheapens, but it
just it waters it down. Maybe not cheapens, but it
waters it down because so many guys are doing it
that it doesn't feel as special anymore. When someone gets fifty,
like we we use too, it's always just such a

(22:02):
huge deal. It used to be something where you know,
guys are pouring water on the guys at half court
and they're getting the postgame interview and you know, it's
leading Sports Center, and it's like, are you kidding me?
Like Sports Center, can't you know lead with five different
guys having fIF on a given night, four different guys
having fifty on a given night. No, it's a good point,
it's definitely. I think watered down is a good way

(22:24):
to put it. And that's again it's we're not trying
to disrespect the current era. I'm not one of those
people that's like it was better when I was growing up.
I'm loving watching these games every night, and I'm loving
the talent around the league. I like that teams, coaches, players,
everyone has gotten wise to the kind of the ways
to optimize the floor, optimize the way to play the game.

(22:45):
You have to be so skilled, you know, as much
as we the scoring might be watered down. At the
same time, there are players, frankly from previous eras specialists
who could not cut it today because you will be
exposed to Like I think about someone like Ruben Patterson, Um,

(23:06):
just could he exist in today's NBA? Like, Um, that's
why why did you bring him up? I'm curious. I
just was like, who is like the most like Burly Um?
Like I hesitate to say, like but he couldn't play offense,
is what I'm getting. Actually, he could not play. Our

(23:30):
producer Shelby is chiming in that Ruben Patterson former Portland
Travelers there was the Kobe stopper, which is that's what
I was about to say, like could he pay? You
probably would need him on some level. Just I'm pretty
sure I haven't served a specific I G. Clip that
was like it's Kobe being like Ruben Patterson was not
the Kobe stopper. I mean he wasn't, but it's it's convenient.

(23:52):
But I know Ruben is listening to this somewhere. It's
gonna be like, why did I just catch this? I'm
so sorry. I'm so sorry that's true and this and
but I love those types of players I love, you know,
this is not the same. I think he could have
cut it a little bit more, but like you know,
the PJ. Brown types I love. I love those rough
and tumble guys. So, uh, it's just a different league,

(24:14):
and I do think it's interesting, and I just hope
that as people watch the game, everyone cools their jets
a little bit. Make sure we keep this in context,
especially these like accounts that just everyone loves to do
the comparison thing, and it gets so annoying and and
I try to be cheeky with it when I do it.

(24:36):
But please recognize that even though Donovan Mitchell is having
a fantastic season, he's not having Kobe's two thousand seven
season or whatever it is. Like, let's just all take
a deep breath and recognize that the game is a
lot different. Do you think the average person knows that? Like,
it's hard, I'm trying to take off like my I

(24:59):
don't know. I hope people know. I mean, like, statistically
you can do that, but it gets really disingenuous because
I think that the smarter way to view the question
is like not statistically in terms of just counting stats
or even efficiency stats at a certain point, because the
game has changed from that standpoint to with the focus
on the three ball um and the you know, the

(25:20):
prominence of guys getting to the line, the prevalence of
guys getting in all. I would hope that people can
view it, especially at that like all NBA level of ultimately,
where does this guy rank throughout the league? Almost like
an NBA rank of sorts, But like Kobe was constantly
in that like, is he the m v P or
is he like the second third best player in life?
I don't think anybody's saying that about Donovan Mitchell right now,

(25:41):
And like, I think that's okay. He's having a great season.
He's got his team in position to maybe get home
court advantage in the ease, which is ahead of schedule
for them. So I think it's fine, like for Donovan
Mitchell to be in an All NBA conversation without being
like an MVP candidate. Um, but if Kobe is an
annual m v P, can it for those years? Let's

(26:01):
not make that comparison. It's no different than the questions
about Mike and you know, Michael Jordan and like you
know his predecessors from the previous generation. Essentially, Kobe was
a different generation at this point versus who were talking.
I know he played forever, but just like Lebron at
this point, theoretically should kind of be a different generation.

(26:22):
The guy was talking to Jabari Smith Jr. And Jabarra
Smith was saying that his dad played against Lebron in
his first career game, Like, so these guys are of
a different generation. And when you when you really think
about it, and That's probably the safest way to think
about because the game has shifted completely from when Lebron
even started his career. A man, I'm worried about the kids, Chris, kids,

(26:45):
listen to this podcast. Make sure you're you're uh in
touch with your history. Let's move on to a team
we have not discussed enough on this podcast so far
this year, and that is the New York Knickerbockers. Shout
out to the New York Knicks having a hell of
a season. I really liked the Jalen Brunson signing. Never

(27:08):
quite understood. I'm this is me patting myself on the back.
I'm pulling the herring you, Honice, move right here. But
I like the Jalen Brunson signing. And lo and behold,
Julius Randall is having another resurgence season. The Knicks are
six in the East, three games behind Cleveland for number five,

(27:30):
weirdly middling at home eleven and twelve at home, dominant
quote unquote on the road, fourteen and eight, UM two
and five division record, which is interesting. There's seven and
three in their last ten games twenty five and twenty Uh,
they've been really good. They've just been really good. Randall
was averaging twenty four point four a game, ten point

(27:51):
six rebounds. Uh, huge comeback season for him. Brunson twenty
two points a game, six assists. Uh. What have you
made of the Knicks? How seriously are you taking them? Uh?
Where wherever you want to take this convoke, Chris, you
tell me, Okay. So I do think that there's an

(28:11):
element of what they're doing that is real and and legitimate.
I think, um, as I wrote today, you know, I'm
kind of focused on my newsletter, Bronson. That was never
a bad sign, and you can kind of go back
and look at what you've said, what you've written, what
I've said, what I've written. Um, I think there's too
much of a hyper focus and too much of a fear,
particularly with the big markets, to get written about a

(28:33):
lot in terms of overpays. And I made reference to
that today in my newsletter that the same conversation was
being had three years ago about Fred van Bleet when
he was going to be a free agent and the
Knicks were mentioned as a potential landing spot for him,
and I remember seeing a lot of fans saying like, oh,
like that, you know, he would be a wild overpay
at this point, you know, coming off the title and

(28:55):
everything else, and you know his improvement, you know, I
don't want to have to over a him. And by overpay,
people basically mean twenty million dollars. He ended up getting
twenty one million a year Brunson. You know, fast forward
three years, Brunson got twenty six million a year and
is on a descending contract where he's making less money
each one of those years on the deal, he's making

(29:17):
literally an average amount of money for a starting point
guard in the league. And I would venture to you know,
I would, I would weigh in and say he's playing
better than average. He's averaging you know, even if a
lot of guys in the league averaging thirty a game,
he's averaging thirty for the month, thirty one for the month,
thirty one and a half for the month. Um, He's
you know, he's been fantastic for them. He's won them games.

(29:38):
He's legitimately one of them games. And I think, aside
from his own stuff, as you just mentioned, he I
think even if the numbers don't bear it out as
far as like you know, how they shoot off of
Brunson's passes. Specifically, I think that he's made life more
comfortable for Julius Randal, He's made life more comfortable for
r J. Barrett, to the to the tune of them
having seasons that are more reminiscent of what they did

(30:01):
two years ago as opposed to you know, when they
were struggling last year, in the moments where they struggled
last year. So, you know, I think it's a huge
win for them. He's he's shot in the clutch on
like sixty some shots. Um, he's been fantastic. What I'm
a little bit curious about. They are a top They're
basically a top ten team on either side of the ball,

(30:23):
which normally screams this team is a contender. Uh So
you're you're you're normally not used to seeing a team
that has those sorts of numbers be six in the
East and you know, not super super comfortably like in
the playoffs. At this point, you know, they still are
like potentially in playing range. And when you marry that
with the fact that they've got one of the hardest
schedules left in the league. UM, I don't think they

(30:45):
have a whole lot of wins that you can look
at and be like, oh, this team is beaten a
bunch of good squads. Uh, so it's early from that standpoint.
They they've blown a lot of games, Like they very
easily could have a record this three or four games
better than what it is. They've lost at the buzzer
a couple of times. Um, you know, they've dropped a
couple of games that they absolutely should have won. I

(31:06):
think if you asked the average Nick fan, they would
say they've lost twice now when you ask about their
division record, they've lost twice now to Toronto and games
that they probably should have won. UM. But I'm gonna
be very curious to see, like do certain people revert
um if they have an injury, Let's say to like
a Quentin Grimes, for instance, who has already missed time

(31:27):
this year. UM, I think he has like an outsize
impact on that team because he's such a a good
defender and such a good floor spacer who doesn't need
the ball to really help that team a lot, Whereas
you've got three guys that all kind of expect to
need the ball on offense. UM. And so I think

(31:48):
Grimes is kind of a perfect fit for a team
like that. UM. It was a no brainer, and a
lot of Knicks fans will tell you it was a
no brainer too to be playing him a lot more
than somebody like Evan Fournier who started the season for them. Um.
So I think that a lot of the right buttons
have been pushed and moves have been made. Um, but
I do want to see, like do they revert to

(32:08):
a worse form of themselves when they start when the
going gets tough. Essentially, they've still got to play Boston
three more times. Um, They've got to play the Nuggets,
They've got to play the next three more times, the
Sixers twice, Cleveland twice, the Pelicans twice, the Miami yet.
So yeah, you know, so they've they've got some they've

(32:30):
got some uh challenging games coming up at some point.
But I mean, if you had to, you know, if
you're the Knicks, if you're a Knicks fan and you
get to the forty five game mark, twenty five and
twenty with games you've left on the table with the tea, Yeah,
with the team that is essentially top ten on both
sides of the ball, with Randall like being a borderline

(32:51):
All star, Brunson being a borderline All Star. You take
that all day long, and uh and certain and really
guys out of the rotation that I think, um and
different point in Thiboteau's career, I don't think he would
have made those decisions to have Fournier out of the
rotation and grimes and to have McBride in the rotation
and rows out. Uh. So I'm very curious to see

(33:13):
what they do. I'm also very curious um to see
whether they go and add to this. They they've got
some guys that I think they could realistically trade to
try to speed this up a little bit more, to
try to make more of a run at this And
depending on what they were to do in a situation
like that, I think that they could. They'd be intriguing. Um. Yeah.

(33:34):
Then being top ten in offense and defense is remarkable,
it really is. What do you make of Randall's season
because he is the big twenty one season which kind
of had some important factors. You know, the Knicks had
like nine months off for that season, it was a
COVID year, a lot of guys in out of lineup.

(33:55):
Last year, he kind of crashes back down to earth.
He's getting like into arguments with fans, not arguments but
he was yeah, yeah, he was not put them off.
He he gave him the thumbs down. What was it
or something, Yeah, you know, mixing it up with fans
in a not positive manner. And then this year it's three.

(34:16):
I think from the field, um, you know, the counting
stats are all there. I still think that his defense
maybe leaves a little bit to be desired. But what
do you make of the Randall renaissance are you? Are
you buying into it? Is he a number three or

(34:37):
number two on a good team? From the field? Um?
From three, how do you feel about Randall so far? So?
I think he like on a championship team. I don't
think he's any higher than a number three. Um, you know,
so I keep thinking about it from that standpoint, in

(34:58):
the same way that when I watched the Brunson signing,
I didn't think that he was a number one on
like a a top tier playoff team in the East.
I think that he's more of the number two. Howl it.
Brunson could be your number three, you would take that too.
We'd obviously be talking about a really good team. If
all of a sudden Randall is your number three or
your number four and Brunson is your number or if

(35:20):
he's your number three. Um, so I think that there's
still clearly one star level guy away. It is really
interesting that Kip dot now to like, given how Donovan
Mitchell has looked this year, what if Donovan Mitchell was
on this team. Uh. You know, obviously you would lose
some of the guys that you have on you know
that you really feel good about if you're the Knicks.

(35:41):
But uh, maybe they would have been even more interesting
than we give them credit for. I figured they would
have been a defensive, defensively challenged team if they've done that,
but I also thought that Cleveland would be more defensively
challenged than they are, and they've basically been the best
defense in the league so part so, um, you know
that I'm sure on some level that has to stay
ng uh for the Knicks. Again there and twenties, so

(36:03):
they're fine. Um, but I I think that they I
have some questions about certain guys. I have some questions
about what I was gonna do down the stretch with
certain things. But I do think that Randall, Uh, this
was the best you could have asked for if you
were a Knicks fan. With Randall Uh, you figured he

(36:24):
wasn't nearly as bad as what he showed last year.
You also probably figured that he wasn't nearly as good
as what he showed two years ago. And I know,
I think you were on the side of there's a
regression coming. I know Michael Peanut was like beating the
drum every chance he could get. Mike Jones, who Mike Jones, Uh,
look at Chris understanding cultural art um. But Michael was

(36:47):
was super pessimistic about Randall ever repeating him and I
had many discussions about that regression coming. It hit hard.
But in Randall's defense, I don't think I don't know
anyone who saw this season from him, right, But I
mean the reality is, and even if you just look
at the last two seasons, um, this is essentially almost

(37:11):
like a like splitting the baby between the season he
had two years ago and the season we had last year.
Like it's not I mean numbers wise here or there,
it's it's pretty close, but it's like it's pretty much
like the dead center of those two seasons, the middle
of those the average of this too. So I you
know that I think that was the best you could
have asked for. Is like you knew he wasn't that great,

(37:33):
and you know he wasn't that bad. So if you
could just give us something in between those two, and
that's your normal, now, that's your new normal. I think
fans could deal with that. And I think also that
UM from the standpoint of like if you trade, and
I'm certainly with the also like he had one of
the stranger seasons I've ever seen last year, just as
far he just seemed so unhappy and so agitated, and

(37:55):
he still has moments where that that frustration flashes, certainly
towards the ups and you even hear Mike Breen make
references to he made a reference to it yesterday of
trying to kind of keep the temper down. But you
weren't gonna get much in return for him if you
did deal him, if you did deal him now, So
this is the best you could have asked for us, Like,
get a guy that is the twenty five point per

(38:16):
game score, who's relatively efficient, UM, who's not forcing the
issue as much. And I think that's part of what
it was. Last year's he was an All Star, he
was an All NBA talent two years ago. So who's
really going to take the ball out of his hands
and tell him to calm down, particularly if you don't
have a starting caliber point guard. And they were using
Alc Brooks at point guard last year for most of

(38:37):
the season. That wasn't gonna cut it. But shout out
to Alc Brooks by the way, I was looking at
his numbers yesterday, slid. His numbers are like better with Detroit,
which is hard to understand given that you know, it's
a team that is struggling right now, understandably so. But
Alc Brooks for the last couple of years now has
had really good numbers, um, and could maybe you know,
at some point, could help a contending team. Uh, you know,

(38:59):
if if he were in that sort of role. But
uh no, I mean Randall, this is all you could
ask for it from him and Barrett, as he always does,
comes out of like those that two year hybernate two
months hibernation to start the season and plays much better. Um.
He had thirty two yesterday or whatever it was. I
had a huge dunk that even really put the game

(39:20):
in overtime to begin with, uh, which was just like
a heads up play. It was a nasty play. I
can't remember too many places where I've seen like an
emphatic dunk to sit in the game over time in
the last second of a regulation. But uh, you know,
I think that they're gonna be fine. Um, they need
to be a little bit mindful of if they have
an injury, being ready to pivot and make a deal soon,

(39:42):
because I don't think they're gonna have so much cushion
to where they can withstand a Grimes injury for three
weeks or something like that, or you know, if runs
in where to get hurt and miss real time. I
do think it changes the the outlook for a team
like this because of how good he's been for them.
So uh. Long as they're healthy, though, I think that
they you know, they're a very very interesting team. Um,

(40:04):
I'm not sure they strike fear in the hearts of
anybody just yet. But look, we'll see how they come
out of this tougher schedule for the second half. You
mentioned the schedule. It's gonna be interesting that it's getting
tougher because, like I mentioned, that home road split is weird.
I don't know if that's flukey or gonna be indicative
of something I I don't want to do. Like that

(40:29):
they should trade for someone talk, But I just want
to throw it out there. I don't know who the
next star is gonna become, who becomes available. Is it's possible.
It's like a Bradley Beal. Do you feel like they
need to get back in the star hunting game or
should they just be kind of happy with this current build?
And because as of right now, let me start here,

(40:53):
would you be shocked if they made the second round
of the playoffs as it stands right now? A little bit? Yeah,
Because I mean even if even if they still feels
like there's a clear line between them Philly Cleveland, Yeah yeah,
I mean they've played, let's put it this way, they've
played really competitive games against those teams. I mean, if
you talk to the right, they would be furious that

(41:16):
they dropped those Bucks games. Um, you know, they've played
Philly very competitively. Um you know, I just kind of
feel like you can't draw too much of a conclusion
from regular season matchup, certainly first half of the season matchups,
and then extrapolate that and then say, oh, well, we'd

(41:36):
match up really well in the playoffs. It's a different level. Um.
Brunson has that experience and a lot of those Knicks
players do have the experience, but it was you know,
we saw how overmatch they were and you know, a
series against you know, a pretty solid Atlanta team. I
think we can look back and say that talent wise,
they had a lot of talent um, but they were
also making a first appearance in the playoffs that year.

(42:00):
Uh So, I just kind of feel like they need
another guy. Um from where I sit, they need another guy.
Uh I I'm interested to see how they do against
teams that have more in length. I thought it was
really interesting yesterday I pointed out in my newsletter Brunson
got blocked five times yesterday. He don't even blocks twenty

(42:20):
three times the whole season and what forty forty one
games whatever it was. Um So, you know, I I
do think sometimes they have a tendency to kind of
force things a little bit. Randall can be guilty that,
you know, when when Brunson isn't playing all that well.
I feel like that's kind of a tendency that he
has to We've seen Barrett press a lot, so Um.
I just I just think that normally at this point,

(42:43):
it's been long enough since they were in the playoffs
to where it's like I kind of want to see
them again in the playoffs. But also I don't imagine
I'm finishing much higher than where they're at right now.
So they're gonna be a team that is, you know,
um not getting home court advantage. Their theoretically gonna be
playing against a Boston, a Brooklyn, uh you know, whether

(43:03):
it's Philly, whether it is uh Milwaukee, whoever. They're gonna
be playing against the team that's got more experience in
those moments than they do, um and has more big
guns I think than they do probably um So, so
we'll see, but I would venture to guess that, um
it's a first round and out and then yeah, I
do think that they should probably go star hunting if

(43:25):
that's the case, um, because you have something that at
this point, if you do make the playoffs, would have
worked pretty quickly. And I think that the expectation was
that they would be right around where they are, maybe
a little bit lower as far as a playoff team
with adding Brunson. And I think that you know, a
simple addition, but just you know, one plus one equals two.
If you go get one more guy, and again you
can knock everybody down a peg in terms of where

(43:46):
they rank in terms of your usage. I think that
works wonders for you with this team, particularly if you
can maintain the level of defense that you've been playing
this year. So I would do that. What would you?
What do you? Where? Do you feel about their star
hunting stuff? It kind of comes down to how you
feel about r J. Barrett in my opinion, because I
think I don't think Randall is the guy who teams

(44:07):
are gonna want back in the trade first star. They're
not trading Bronson. We know that they offered Barrett for
Donovan Mitchell. And it's eerie. It's eerie how similar r J.
Barrett's stats are to last season. He's averaging last year
twenty point points a game, this year twenty points a

(44:27):
game last year, five point eight. Rebounds this year five
point five last year. Three assists this year two point
nine last year two point two. Turnovers this year two
point three. Um. He's shooting slightly better from the field,
but slightly worse from three. I don't know that I
really trust his three point shot. Last year it was

(44:50):
a thirty four percent. This year is the thirty two.
He's not bad, but he's not going to be someone
who is teams are selling out. UM on the perimeter,
It's gonna be a combination of how do you feel
about Barrett and who's that next star that becomes available?
Because if it's like Bradley Beal, I think I maybe

(45:14):
wouldn't put R J. Barrett and Brad Beale deal. Wow.
And I really feel the things that concern me a
deal of one. He's he's getting older, and he's does
he play fair? Um? I mean you every team would
have to about. I feel like that's a question you

(45:34):
have to ask with any trade. You know a lot
of I think you included him. UM kind of talked
about the is there an Anthony Davis trade that makes sense?
Should they trade him? Um? Any team that is making
a deal of that magnitude, you have to ask yourself
what's the injury risk here? And um? So, I mean
that's fair of Beal, but I think it's probably fair

(45:55):
of most guys. I also have to look at exactly
how much time he's missed. But we at this point
we've gotten used to him miss same time every year
at least. I mean he's only but they just send
the massive contract. I mean they did, but to me here,
and here's the thing, Barrett. Again, it depends on what
you think is going to become of him. If you

(46:16):
think he's gonna be you know, let's let's say Barrett
like impressive, because I think impressive now would be like
if the guy could be an All Star four times.
I think you would take that. I'm sure there's some
people that on the one end of the spectrum that
are like die hard Knicks fans, diart Bear fans would
say that's blasphemous. He could do more than that. You're
you're under selling him if you asked the Knicks, I think,

(46:38):
especially for what they gave him contract was like, I
think they would take that. Um, he's got a lot
of incentives as contract that could push his number higher,
but he's making less than thirty a year. Um, you
know at a time where a lot of guys in
his class or a couple the guys right above him
in his class, we're getting Maxis will be super mexress.
So I think you would take that if you're a
Barrett and you're the Knicks. Uh. I At this point, though, like,

(47:02):
unless he's going to show that somewhat quickly, especially if
you're talking about making a playoff run this year and
you're looking at a star next year. Um, I'm not
even concerned about Barrett. I'm just kind of more really
fixated on what you pointed out, which is that his
numbers have been so consistent but so kind of like

(47:23):
it leaves you wanting a little bit more, Yes, a
little bit. And he is and he has he stretches.
We are like, oh my god, he's put it together
and he's a two way force. And then he regresses
in reverbs and progression is not linear. I'm not saying
this is who he is, but at the same time,
it's who he's been so far, and it's a legitimate

(47:45):
question how much better he's gonna get? And I guess
the beal thing. To me, it's less that like I
think Barrett's like untouchable. It's more like, do you take
the risk on the literal next star who becomes available,
or do you try to hold out for someone particular? Right?
It is there a world in which Joel Embide becomes available?

(48:08):
Or I don't know, I mean who, I'm just throwing
out big names, but what if is there a world
in which Jalen Brown? Maybe I don't know, I just well,
here's the thing. If you're the Knicks, I don't think
I don't know that like this is no disrespect to him.
I don't think just like we saw with the Jazz deal, Um,

(48:32):
Barrett wasn't moving the needle so much in the Donovan
Mitchell thing. I couldn't believe the Jazz didn't take Parrott
back for Mitchell. For what it's worth, that shocked me.
I mean, it's a little surprising, but it's like, I
think it also is a wake up call where I
think we've gotten so in the habit and by we,
I mean I think just the basketball Twitter spear in general,
where we just kind of take for granted, like, oh,

(48:55):
if a team has a bunch of assets as many
as the Knicks have as many's like the thunder have
you name it, and they also have like a guy
that is you know, has All Star potential, which I
think most people would say Barrett at least has that
at some point. Who knows when it happens, if it happens,
but that and you know someone that is a twenty
point per game youngster, um that you know, we assume

(49:18):
that the other team will just take back the best
player in that deal. But again, Barrett was on the
cusp of getting a new deal or or an extension. Uh.
And I've said this before about different guys. I've said
it before, Ben Simmons, I was is a different case.
But I don't blame teams for wanting to build exactly.
They want to build around exactly the guy they want. Well,

(49:40):
what they really want is to not trade for players
and trade for draft picks so they have plausible deniability
when they lose, right and then can kick the can
down the road and give themselves a tenure window rights.
But but, but I think the point you brought up
about Barrett and and kind of you know, growth isn't linear,
but the numbers being relatively the same from here and

(50:02):
to hear out, Um, I remember the same thing being
true Myles Turner for a long time, where his numbers
no matter what he does, no matter what hot streaking
goes on. I wrote a story about it when I'm
still at five three D. He had like basically the
most static stat line of all time from year to year. Um.
And I think it's part of the reason that again,
if you talk to Pacers fans, especially some of the

(50:23):
ones that were like, look, trade Sabonus and then free
up Miles Turner, Like, don't make Myles Turner have to
play behind Sabonus and what he can't do defensively. Then
they get rid of Sabonus and his numbers are still
the same. Now now he's having a career year. So
it's interesting of like how long do you wait for
that pot of gold, which, by the way, might not
ever come. Everybody's different, Um, everybody's timeline is different. Like

(50:45):
you said, growth isn't always linear. But I just don't
know that it's a given that if you want someone
like a Bead, first of all, there's gonna be a
lot of suitors. We know that with any player of
his caliber. Yeah, I mean I think that there's, um,
you know, there's all kinds of sea whispers and is
not a new or novel. But but here's the thing.

(51:07):
If you do that, I just don't know that the
Knicks would have They would obviously have a plethora of
draft picks that are appealing to anybody. I don't know
that they're there, Grimes, Sparrot, it would have to be everybody,
And like, I just don't think that, you know, like
as it stands, I don't think Barrett excites everybody. I

(51:27):
think people are split on how they feel about him,
and uh so, I don't think that's normally your headliner
in a trade for someone like Perennial all NBA talent.
Uh So, what we'll see, I'd be interested. That's why
I reacted the way. I think you said that you
might not give up Barrett for Beal because I don't.
I think Barrett is probably nonstarter for enough teams, not everybody,

(51:49):
but you know, I think you would try to sweeten
the pot from there if you have. That's a very
fair point. Who do you like more, Barrett or hero Um? Honestly,
I would say, if we're talking about future, I would
say Barrett and also like like just completely um apart

(52:10):
from their teams like singular Player, because I think Heroes
got really really great talent around him. I'm not great talent,
but like very very good talent. An he's got He's
got Jimmy Bam, Kyle Lowry, an incredible coach, He's he's
in an eCos, He's gotten better infrastructure for now. Now,

(52:31):
now that said, Barrett has a better situation, but I'm
still waiting on him like, I don't know, I will
say this. I I think we're getting to that point
now where it's like you've gotta show some progression. Um.
And I see I see Nicks fan's tweeted our Jay's
trainer a lot and like his uh, you know, like
what is he working on this summer like you know,

(52:51):
almost like a story time And he's like, well, this
summer where you know, almost like a chef is like
telling you what's on the specials menu. Uh, he's got
to start showing something that's like stain anable and not.
I don't want to necessarily see him have a two
week hot streak where he goes for seven a game
and then it regresses where he's shooting from three for
then the next three weeks. He's had that every year.

(53:11):
He started slowly every year. Um, he has a point guard.
Now he's you know, solidly like their third guy now. Um.
And you would hope that that kind of means that
it frees up more opportunities for him. It gives him
less of a defender to have to go up against.
But you know, he's he's had really good moments, he
has really good flashes. He always does. Um, but I

(53:32):
think it's sometime soon. I think it's gonna be time
to see a little bit more than just that. I
can't make fun of Nick's fans for tweeting at r
J S Shooner because I texted Chris Brickley during the
playoffs to thank him for what he did to Jimmy
Butler's jump shot. Jimmy just kate out and started hitting

(53:53):
all these threes. I was like, this is sick. Every
day every day is posting a video with him in
the gym with Chris. Yeah, he's a legend, dude. I
got to know him a little, just a little bit
when I was covering the Knicks because he's doing so
much work with Primil Anthony and those guys, and uh,

(54:14):
he's a hard working dude and he's he worked a
lot to grow kind of clients all that he deals with,
so he Uh. We used to do the old s
I t V show The Crossover, and Brickley came on
a couple of times, just like the second time, He's like, yeah,
I'll come hang and it's really nice. Dude, Like ran
us through a set of fake basketball drills and I

(54:35):
just kept flopping the whole time. He's a good dude.
Shout out to Chris Berkeley man, Um, Chris, that will
do it. For today's episode of Open Floor, we didn't
get to talk about Man on Fire today. Did I
tell you that I watched Training Day for the first
time like three weeks ago. You did not but that movie.

(54:57):
Every time I watched that movie, I'm like, Yo, this
is it's it's fascinating to watch it. It's very now. Yeah,
it's a it's a little bit infuriating to me that
that was Denzel's first best or because I just kind
of feel like, I think, Um, the Academy Awards have
so many makeup awards, and I think there were a

(55:18):
lot of people of color that were really frustrated there,
like why does he have to play a bad guy
to win the award when he's he's show so much,
And not only that, he has to play like a
specific kind of bad guy. And I mean, we're really
going to get the just the justifysition of his character
to Ethan Hawk's character and some of the politics of that.

(55:39):
And it's a very interesting movie to watch now, you know,
over twenty years later, because the performance is still remarkable.
It's a great performastic. I've been saying you like to
get wet um to my friends ever every day since
I saw the movie. Yeah, I saw the Whale. I

(56:01):
saw the Whale the other night. I dropped what I
was doing after I saw the Brendan Fraser speech and like,
literally that that speech happened. I didn't see it until
nine my time on. I was going through Twitter and
I was like, Holy hell, this is powerful and I
know generally speaking what the movie is about. So I
literally got on my phone, like where's the closest theater

(56:21):
that's showing it? And I was like, I've got time tonight.
If it bleeds into tomorrow, I don't have time because
I'm moving. I'm packing on my back boxes up. So
there was one showing at ten o'clock in a theater
about twenty minutes away. I hopped in a uber like
I called the uber, throw on some shoes, went to
the theater, got there like right as the previous weren't ending,
and watched it and just was like fell bound. It was.

(56:43):
It was crazy to watch. It's also interesting to watch
the criticism of that movie. Yes, I need to see
it because I've I've heard very interesting criticisms, and I'm
very interested in his performance. His acting jobs top notch.
It's it's just scary how good he was in that film.
It's a hard movie to watch stuff, so be prepared
for them. Um, I gotta check it out. But yeah
we will. We will have to do a full hour

(57:03):
on Denzel performances one day and maybe maybe we get
in Spike in for that pod. Um, he'd probably be
down there we go, there we go. Um, But that
will do it for today's episode of Open Floor. Thank
you to my friend Chris Harrying. Thank you to all
of our listeners. Please keep your emails coming in. We
got some good emails that we did not get to today,

(57:23):
but shout out to Elliott. Daddy is the whole crew Ellie.
Thank you guys for all your emails. We'll do some
emails against soon, I promised, Open flour mail at gmail
dot com. Until then, continue to enjoy the NBAC who