December 13, 2022 • 47 mins
Ten days after Jessica’s disappearance, her sisters travel to New Orleans where they find Jessica’s body roughly 2 1/2 blocks from her Lakeview home. The Coroner’s office rules Jessica's cause and manner of death as Undetermined, but her autopsy report reveals injuries sustained prior to her death.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out
Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not
(00:45):
be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
If somebody has disappeared and they don't have a vehicle,
they don't have have a cell phone to communicate, they
don't have any means of paying for anything.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
At that point you have to treat it like it's
a missing child. That means going door to door, going
and looking under bushes and cars. So don't make excuses
to me about manpower, because that just means you don't
want to. That's what I feel all of this boils
down to, is they just don't want to.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
But when they get a call that there's a body
found two and a half, everybody.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Everybody shows up.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
People in suits, don't even talk to you, people in
uniforms coming up and asking questions.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
And the one detective.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
That wasn't there an hour and a half before, there's
all of a sudden there and hey man, how are.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
You guys doing. We just did your job and we
found our relative. How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
You know, all of a sudden you have more than
enough people to come out.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
That's kind of embarrassing. And I was probably about.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Where you see those uh those little like concrete things
over there, when I heard her yelling from over here,
and then they ended up calling me and I rushed back,
but there was a stop training over here, so I
had to hop over and walk.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
And and just just kind of look down. That goes
pretty deep. It's way down there, so it's it's crazy.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And you guys see about where she lived, just down
the road, not very far at all, so it was
extremely close.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Yeah, gives me chills being back here.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
This is on Thursday, August twenty second, twenty nineteen, about
a week after Jessica's disappearance. Sisters Audrey and Amanda, along
with their cousin Doug, made the long trek from Mississippi
to New Orleans. First stop in OPD District three, they
(03:28):
wanted to speak to Detective One, but when they arrive,
he's not there, so they make the best of their
time and start looking around Jessica's Lakeview neighborhood, the last
place she was seeing. Scouring a map of the area,
they decide to look just on the outskirts of the
residential part of the neighborhood. Something drew them to an
(03:51):
overgrown area just passed an interstate overpass. There's a pumping
station and a hillside that leads up to some train
tracks dividing Lakeview and its adjacent neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I'm gonna led al drug kind of walk you guys
over there.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
It was greways down there.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
So me, Doug, and Amanda got here by the pumping
station number seven and was scouting out places to look at.
Amanda stayed in the car to talk to Maria to
tell her what was going on, what our next plan was,
And me and Doug got out the car and.
Speaker 7 (04:29):
We went over the railroad tracks.
Speaker 8 (04:34):
We crossed the train and he told me go look
over that way by the woods, and that's what I did.
I went over there, and I was walking alongside of
the train and I seen like a white tarp down
there's like a leg a hill with rocks on it,
(04:54):
and I've seen a white tarp, and I thought, oh
my god, I hope my sister's not underneath there. So
to walk down there, but I slid all the way
down and my foot hit the tarp, and I just
remember thinking, please, don't let my sister be underneath there.
And I pulled up the tarp and she wasn't there,
and I was so relieved.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Though Audrey felt a sense of relief in this moment,
her search continued. She had a strong feeling about this
area and felt something calling to her, urging her to
keep looking.
Speaker 8 (05:30):
And then literally maybe five ten feet I just stayed
down there, and I jumped on a railroad tie and
then I turned around, and then as clear as day,
I heard a voice that said, no, look again. And
I looked again. And that's whenever. So when I seen
her legs, when I seen her back, and I started screaming.
Speaker 7 (06:01):
No one heard me. I was just sitting here screaming.
Speaker 9 (06:11):
I walked back up the hime, and then I walked
back down and I looked again because I thought, maybe
that's not what I'm seeing. And I fell to the
grand and just started screaming, and and then I called
my sister on the phone and I said, I found Jessica.
Speaker 8 (06:43):
She was just laying there, and I knew it was
my sister, Like I knew it was her.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
And it was her.
Speaker 7 (06:50):
Knee that was black, and she had black shorts, she
had on a black shirt. Her feet were covered by
some bushes, and then like her head was kind of
covered by some bushes.
Speaker 8 (07:07):
Too, but I could see her.
Speaker 7 (07:14):
She was just laying there like someone set her down
or something like a pizza trush. She was only two
enough foughts from her house. She was a person, no
matter what what she was into or anything, she didn't
deserve to die like that.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
We were all kind of shocked, you know, we were
all kind of kind of scared. Obviously, reality kind of
kicks in.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
This is Jessica's cousin, Doug Schmidt, who accompanied Audrey and
Amanda in their search for Jessica. Doug works in the
funeral home industry and sees the deceased on a daily basis.
Still the scene was jarring to him.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
She wasn't facing us, she was facing another direction, and
she was kind of more or less sitting in a
fetal position, and the surroundings didn't really seem really natural
as far as Okay, well, I don't know what's going on.
I'm not a police officer, not a detective. But I
told him, I said, look, if this is her or
(08:31):
if it's not, this is still a dead body, and
we need to get away from this right now and.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Call the police.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
And they did just that. As they waited, Amanda call
Jessica's friend Maria to let her know what had happened.
Speaker 10 (08:46):
She was like, we found a body. Police are on
the way, like just that quick, so fast, We're going
to look around. We found her, and I remember like
just howling like a bansheet and like walking around my
living room in circles and being like, oh my god,
I'm so sorry, just like I knew it was her.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Back at the scene, it wasn't long before the area
was flooded with emergency personnel and police, including Detective lun When.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
They showed up, it was a few detectives and we
walked them to where we found her and of course,
they doing their thing. They're asking questions about what's the
story here, and we kind of filled them in a
little bit about what we knew up to that point
that look, she was missing. We came down because it
had been ten days and we were worried about our
(09:38):
relative and went over everything with them, and of course
they took pictures. Corners Office showed up and removed her
and all. And I remember my cousin Mandy really wanted
to see because at the point, you know, you couldn't
really see anything, and the level of decomp ten days
(10:00):
and the heat in that area, I mean, it kind
of was rapid.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
We asked them, said, look, these are her sisters.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Man to hear wants to see her because she wants
to know if this is her or not, because they
had this gut.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Feeling that look, no, that's that's my sister. I remember
him saying, the level of d comp's bad.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Soft tissues are removed, it's you don't want to see.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
The family was certain it was Jessica, but sadly, due
to the level of decomposition from the New Orleans heat,
they wouldn't get a positive identification that day. In fact,
they didn't feel like they got much of anything out
of the NPD that day. According to Doug, the scene
was cleared within an hour.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Looking back, I kind of expect a little bit more.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
They interviewed us, of course, they took some pictures of
the immediate area, and then that was it. They didn't
really expand past just that one little section, And that
always seemed kind of to me.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
It really did, really really odd.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
It didn't seem like it wasn't as big a deal
as it should have been to them. This was a
missing person's case that was reported missing. This wasn't like,
oh she was missing and no one reported its Like.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
No, they knew.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
They knew our level of interest, our level of involvement.
They knew it. The detective that we were going to
see that day showed up on the scene and talked
to us. You know, of course we're kind of looking
at them, like, I mean, the house is a straight
shot from here. This seems awfully closed for so many
miss in ten days, and three amateurs who don't even
(11:39):
live in the area, have never been to this area
can put two and two together and just start looking around.
Even looking back, it just still feels odd to me
because I expected more. I expect a lot more, and
it just never happened.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
It just never happened.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And when the NOPD wrapped up at the scene, what
was left was a police report, a fairly brief one
at that the incident is listed as an unclassified death
and specifically states that is not a result of a
hate crime or domestic violence. The narrative says, in part.
Speaker 11 (12:24):
At approximately twelve thirty six pm, police officer Everett Briscoe
was dispatched to the intersection of Orleans Avenue in Kenilworth
Street to investigate a report of a miscellaneous incident, Whereas
the reporting person, Amanda Barnes, stated, while searching for her sister,
who was reported missing, she located the deceased body of
an unknown white female.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Officers reported her as wearing a gray shirt and blue shorts,
and also noted that she was in an advanced stage
of decomposition. It, in essence, that's the police report. As
Doug Audrey and Amanda drove away from the scene that afternoon,
(13:08):
they were at a loss. The only thing they knew
for sure in that moment was that Jessica was no
longer missing. She was gone forever, you know.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
There was a lot of emotions going on.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
There was a lot of anger, there was a lot
of confusion, a lot of sadness, and it just felt
like it was just like a roller coaster. I know,
we all had hoped that she was still alive somewhere,
and you kind of hang on to that, and then
you start hoping that maybe this wasn't her.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Because me not being.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Near as close to Jessica as my two cousins were,
I felt the degree of sadness because I mean, I
I can't even imagine I couldn't you know, I have
three sisters of my own, and even trying to look
at it from their perspective just makes me just want
(14:10):
to shut down.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Eventually reality would set in, but it would take some time.
It wasn't until nearly three months later, in November of
twenty eighteen, that the body would officially be matched to
Jessica through DNA. According to the family, the delay was
a result of the NPD misplacing the original DNA sample
(14:34):
submitted by Jessica's mother. Nonetheless, they got their answer, a
rather unwanted one, and there would be more to follow.
Two months later, January of twenty twenty would turn out
to be a quite eventful month for the case. The
corner listed both the cause and manner of death as
(14:57):
undetermined or a coroner's examination. They typically include the cause
and manner of death. Manner of death can be natural,
accidental suicide, homicide, or if it's unknown but is not
considered natural causes, they can classify it as undetermined. In
(15:20):
Jessica's case, her injuries, which we'll get to in a minute,
did not indicate exactly how she died. Therefore, they also
ruled her cause of death as undetermined. This obviously didn't
sit well with the family. It seemed they were even
further from closure than they thought. Everything was up in
(15:40):
the air. To make matters worse, that same day, Audrey
and Amanda learned that they wouldn't even be able to
lay their sister to rest. Her remains were released to
her husband justin This came as a surprise to them
and they were crushed. And as if that wasn't enough
(16:00):
bad news for one month, the most shocking revelation would
come the last day of the month, January thirty first,
twenty twenty, when the coroner released the autopsy report to
the family. They hoped it would provide some answers. Instead,
it would only raise more questions. We were given access
(16:23):
to the report by Jessica's family. Here's what it says.
Jessica's time of death was listed as August twenty second,
twenty nineteen, one h five pm, which is when she
was found and officially pronounced deceased at the scene. The
autopsy indicates several injuries to Jessica's body, including a broken
(16:46):
nose and jaw. She also sustained post mortem injuries, meaning
they happened after she was deceased. Those include a broken
rib and C four vertebrae, which is located in the neck.
At the time of her autopsy, Doctor O'Sullivan, a forensic
pathologist with the Orleans Parish Corner's Office, collected evidence samples
(17:10):
from Jessica's body, including two envelopes of fingernail clippings, a
heart charmed necklace from her neck, and her clothing black
tank top, black shorts, pink underwear, and a pair of
black shoes, which contradicted what the nopedie reported her wearing
gray shirt and blue shorts. The doctor also notates a
(17:33):
sun and moon tattoo on her lower right abdomen following
the autopsy, a toxicology screening was conducted by forensic toxicologist
doctor Sherry Katinko with NMS Labs. Testing shows levels of
memph amphetamine, amphetamine, alcohol, and prescription drugs including buproprian and
(17:59):
hydroxyu approprian. The report raises a lot of questions, and
I wanted to better understand what everything meant to do
that I sought on an expert, a woman I had
connected with a few years back, ironically in New Orleans
during Crime con an annual true crime convention, where she
(18:19):
was speaking as a forensics expert.
Speaker 12 (18:23):
My name is doctor Kimberly Massik.
Speaker 13 (18:25):
I am an assistant professor of criminology and Victimology at
Indian River State College, as well as the founder and
director of.
Speaker 14 (18:34):
The Institute for Cold Case Investigations, which works directly with
law enforcement agencies going through cold cases that are in
our local area.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
While doctor Masnik hasn't conducted an official investigation into this case,
we asked her to look over the documents we have
and share her thoughts.
Speaker 12 (18:57):
And the Jessica Easterly case.
Speaker 13 (19:00):
Jessica was found ten days after she actually went missing.
Speaker 12 (19:06):
She's in New Orleans.
Speaker 13 (19:08):
She's in a fairly good state of decomposition from the
trunk up so the body is Jessica's body is removed
and she is taken to the examiner's office and when
they receive her, she is received in the bag upside down,
and the process for her very little is actually done
(19:33):
because of the level of decomposition. And you have to
think it's New Orleans is very much like where I
live in Florida. It's extremely hot, it's extremely humid, which
is going to make the person their level of decomposition
happen much quicker. So she's not in the most pristine
(19:54):
condition she can be in to run all of the
tests that would normally be run. You go ahead and
do toxicology on her, but unfortunately they can't take it.
Speaker 12 (20:06):
We can't get blood samples.
Speaker 13 (20:07):
She's been out there for ten days, so either her
blood has dried up or because of the decomposition, the
blood has flowed into her body cavity, so therefore it's compromised.
So the one thing that they're really able to do
is to send off and have a piece of her
liver examined. Again, you have to remember that Jessica's liver
(20:32):
has now been out and in the public sun that
and everything else for ten days, so it is also
going through changes both chemically and physically.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
There are many challenges experts face when dealing with a
highly decomposed body, as was the case here. Doctor Masnik
puts it simply, if you don't test for it, you're
not going to find it. But in Jasica's case, they
were able to find some things.
Speaker 13 (21:04):
So there were only about five or six drugs that
were tested for that we know of.
Speaker 12 (21:10):
Most of them come back to either.
Speaker 13 (21:12):
Illicit drugs that she was on potentially for depression, or
she was being given by somebody for depression, or they
are items that could have shown up in her liver
in her system just simply due to this. The ethanol
is absolutely an alcohol, a drug that shows up in
(21:33):
the system due to decomp When I look at the
things that are said about Jessica in the report, the report.
Speaker 12 (21:42):
Say she's either a very low.
Speaker 13 (21:45):
Level user of myth because it doesn't say anything about,
you know, major blemishes to her skin, her teeth, or
in fair condition. There's nothing that we see when we
look at people that are major meth addicts.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
However, she says it's important to understand how meth metabolizes
in the body.
Speaker 13 (22:10):
Meth breaks down very quickly based on when you take
it and how much you take and how you take it.
So it's more than likely that if they're finding meth
in her body, that it was very recently taken and
it would not have been ingested because the stomach would
(22:31):
have dissolved it. That would lower the level very quickly.
Meth isn't going to increase because of decomposition.
Speaker 12 (22:40):
Or anything else. If meth is there, then meth is there.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
We asked doctor Masnak. If there's a potential overdose here.
Speaker 13 (22:49):
You have to remember they were not able to run
tests as extensively as they would have if it had
been a fresh or an interior past. You have to
realize they used her liver to do most of the testing,
so the liver itself was also going through changes.
Speaker 12 (23:09):
So yes, it is very likely that it did go down.
Speaker 13 (23:13):
But then again, I still have to I'm speculating, and
it's based on just my knowledge of what the average
meth addicts looks like. One, if she's not a consistent user,
and two, even a heavy dose ten hours later, only
half of it's going to be in her system. And
(23:35):
then After that, you've got the ten days until we
even pick her up, and then you've got extra time
before the autopsy even happens.
Speaker 12 (23:44):
So there's no way.
Speaker 13 (23:46):
Of knowing exactly how much meth was in her system
at the time of her death.
Speaker 12 (23:51):
You have to go back and look. There's nothing.
Speaker 13 (23:55):
Nobody mentions anything about her. The husband is saying, you know,
they were taking a nap, so it's not like they
were at a party. There's nothing there that jumps out
to me and says that she took a heavy dose
of myth at that point in time, even though there's
also nothing that tells me that she didn't.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And while Jessica had traces of methamphetamine in her system
at the time of her toxicology examination, her family doesn't
believe she was habitually using meth. It's also unclear what
exactly Jessica had prescriptions for and whether or not the
drugs found in her system at the time of her
death or prescription. But apart from the drugs, I also
(24:41):
wanted to know if there was any way to determine
what Jessica's cause of death could have been based off
her injuries she.
Speaker 13 (24:50):
Was found with Basically her nose is broken and her
jaw is broken, and they do not state, so I
can only assume or presume that that was either.
Speaker 12 (25:05):
Pre mortem or anti mortem.
Speaker 13 (25:09):
They don't ever mention whether or not there's any blood
in or around those areas, so I can't tell exactly
at what point she received those. But they do state
that her C four vertebrate as well as her rib
or broken, and those are post mortem. I am feeling,
(25:30):
based on what very little information we have, that this
is Jessica's.
Speaker 12 (25:36):
A dumb sight. Because we have such little information.
Speaker 13 (25:41):
That's why the coroner up there turns around and gives
us a manner and cause of death of being undetermined.
As much as I don't like it, undetermined is actually
probably the best thing to leave it at at this
point in time.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Although doctor Masnik is of the belief that Jessica's body
was dumped at the site, implicating some degree of foul play,
she says ultimately there's just not enough information to know
for sure, and adds that a classification of homicide would
be an overreach without definitive evidence on her body to
(26:18):
support it. But before we move on, I want you
to know there was something else found on her body.
That further supports the theory of it being moved, something
my partner Todd and I discussed at length.
Speaker 15 (26:34):
We do know from a source that was at the
scene when her body was discovered, who makes their living
working with dead bodies, she had liver mortis on the
outside of her knee that was the opposite knee of
the knee that was touching the ground.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Let's break that down for someone who may not know
what post mortem liver mortis is, because I had to
have you explain it to me. And so let's begin
with Jessica's found laying on her side.
Speaker 13 (27:11):
Right.
Speaker 15 (27:12):
Yeah, for this argument's sake, we're not saying which side
she was discovered on right, but if she was discovered
on her left side, then we would be talking about
the right knee, and the liver mortis had set in
on the outside of that right knee, which is facing
the sky, pointed to straight up at the sky. From
a layman or detective's understanding of what liver mortis is
(27:34):
and what it occurs, it's post mortem lividity, which means
it happens after death. So about twenty minutes after you die,
the red blood cells start to separate themselves from the
plasma because your heart's not beating anymore and it's not
circulating the blood, so it works its way out of
vessels and whatnot into tissue and then it pulls and
(27:57):
it's falling because of gravity, tore the ground. So they're
able to determine how you were positioned at the time
you died, and it would mean that you laid there
in that position for a minimum probably of two hours,
probably closer to six the way this was described.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
So what this proves is she died laying on one side.
She was found laying on the opposite side. Right between
this revelation and everything we discussed with doctor Masnik, there's
plenty of process here, and still something that gnaws at
(28:38):
me is just how close her body was to her house.
So now with all of this in mind, Todd and
I decided to go back to the spot where Jessica
was found. This time at night, it's eerie. Visibility is lacking.
(28:59):
I'm on edge with every little noise I hear. It's
a little unsettling out here this late at night. It's
almost ten o'clock, it's dark, it's desolate this time of night.
Quite the contrast from the bustling neighborhood we first visited
(29:19):
in the daytime. Now no one is around, and one
lonely street light illuminates a small patch of street and grass. Now,
in August of twenty nineteen, this grassy area was overgrown,
very weedy. You know, it didn't look like it does now.
(29:43):
Now it's pretty manicured. I mean, it could probably use
a mo but it looks like it's been mowed recently,
within a week or so. I'd say.
Speaker 15 (29:51):
There's a little pool in area, a little cutout in
the curb so that vehicles can pull into the slot
and it splits the lot in the middle. So if
it was this light wasn't here, then it was really dark.
You could pull in there, and if it were overgrown,
you could pull anything out of your car and just
slide it.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
We find out after leaving New Orleans the light was
in fact newly installed this year. If they pull in
to this, I'm gonna say, now you were you were
mentioning this. This pull in kind of divides this this area,
so you got half the lot over here. The other
(30:34):
half on the other side is not far at all
from another house.
Speaker 15 (30:39):
No from Oh, I'm standing now, I could throw a
baseball and hit that house, So it's it's risky. It's
a risky spot, even though it's dark and it is
visually and esthetically separated from this very nice edition they
lived in.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
It's perplexing how she ends up this close to her
house if you're wanting to conceal her. Right, there are many, many,
many places we've seen driving around within minutes of driving
a couple of minutes that would seemingly be easier to
(31:17):
conceal long term, possibly forever.
Speaker 15 (31:19):
This is so close, and not only that, you have
way more privacy in these other areas, you're way less
likely to be spotted being parked there or doing something
wrong there. I mean, granted we're talking about you know,
this is kind of creepy. It's dark, it looks different
than the other side of the overpass. All that, yet
we are very very close to houses and people, and
(31:42):
that's never a great strategy for dumping a dead body.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, And as we have discussed, the location could have
been the opportunity that presented itself to do something quickly
and with haste, as opposed to planning and thinking of
a location that would be better suited to conceal.
Speaker 15 (32:05):
It's hard to believe that this was anyone's master plan.
If any time at all was invested in what should
I do with this woman's body?
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Now?
Speaker 15 (32:14):
Where should I put it? Then I doubt this was
plan A.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
We didn't stay long, but seeing this place at night
did add some perspective. It's not the best place to
hide a body by any stretch of the imagination, but
at night it is a very easy place to get
away with it, albeit if only temporarily, which is why
Todd believes this was not some thought out plan, rather
(32:45):
a rush decision made on the fly. So at this
point we have at least some clarity as to how
her body got to where it was found. But what
about the cause and manner of death. That's something that's
still seemed difficult to draw any conclusions, not to mention
who's responsible. Theories were beginning to swirl, especially between those
(33:10):
closest to her. But what I really wanted to know
is what Justin thought. After all, he was Jessica's husband,
they lived together. He was the last person to see her.
Jessica's family had virtually no contact with Justin during this time,
but he was talking one of the people he was
(33:31):
talking to was Jessica's friend, Erica. He may remember from
episode one she attended their wedding, and while she got
to know Justin a little, they certainly weren't close. But
shortly after Jessica went missing, Erica received a text from
Justin which would ultimately turn into an extended conversation spanning
(33:53):
from August fifteenth, twenty nineteen, to February twenty sixth, twenty twenty.
Erica sent me screenshots of their text conversation. Let's begin
where their conversation started on August fifteenth, twenty nineteen, one
(34:18):
day after Jessica was reported missing and one week before
she was found. The text messages will be voiced by actors.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
Hey, it's Justin.
Speaker 16 (34:31):
Hey, what happened to Jessica. I just saw the post
on Facebook.
Speaker 17 (34:36):
She left some time after twelve pm yesterday. I was
a sleeper and I have no idea where she is
or if she's okay.
Speaker 18 (34:44):
At first, I didn't know what to believe. I was like,
what is going on? Because I saw the post on
Facebook where he said Jessica, where are you? Grace misses you?
And I'm like, what do you mean? I texted him
I was like, where's Jessica. He said, I don't know.
Gray's been throwing up, She's worried, sick, and I was
(35:05):
hopeful that he had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
You can actually see this in Erica's text. She was
there for Justin during this time. Sure, she had her
questions about Jessica's disappearance, and occasionally she'd throw out an
idea of how to maybe find her, But for the
most part, she was there to empathize.
Speaker 16 (35:29):
You need to be there for Gracie, hang in there
and keep in touch, don't be too hard on.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yourself, And by his responses, Justin seemed to appreciate her kindness.
Speaker 17 (35:42):
I'm gonna try and take a nap. If I hear anything,
I'll call you immediately. Thanks for being a good friend.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
In a way, it seemed like Erica became Justin's sounding board.
They texted frequently. Sometimes it was even lighthearted, but for
the most part it was serious. They both wanted to
find out what happened to Jessica. On August twenty ninth,
(36:10):
Erica asked Justin for an update.
Speaker 16 (36:14):
Nothing today, do you remember saying anything or doing anything?
Are her saying anything the last day? You saw her
that would help find her.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Justin responds the following day, August thirtieth, at two twenty
six in the morning, giving the full story of what
happened the day Jessica went missing. I just want to
note that at this point Jessica's body had been found,
but neither Erica nor Justin seemed to know that. Here's
their exchange.
Speaker 17 (36:47):
Gone over that day in my mind with police, even
my daughter more than just a few times. The problem
with that day is there isn't a lot to it.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Justin explained how exhausted he was that day, between getting
great ready to go back to school and Jessica coming
out of what he called a depressive cycle after a
flare up with her fiber mayalgia. He remembered sleeping in
that morning and waking up to find Jessica in the
kitchen doing laundry.
Speaker 17 (37:16):
She asked if I was hungry, and I said yes.
We talked about Grace School for a while, and she
said she was going.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
To put a pizza in the oven.
Speaker 17 (37:24):
She came back in the room when the pizza was ready,
and we ate watched TV. After we ate, she said
that I looked tired and I was abnormally tired because
Grace had just gotten out of the hospital. I was
getting her uniform for school, school supplies, all kinds of stuff,
and I didn't have any help from Jessica because she
was feeling like crap and sleeping a lot. So I said, yes,
(37:47):
I am, and she said that she had to move
the clothes to the dryer and she'd come lay down too.
She went in the kitchen with the plate, and I
remember her coming back in getting in the bed. That's
the last thing I remember for Grace woke me up
after getting home from school. That's when this all began.
I don't know, there's not a lot to it, but
(38:09):
that's what happened that morning.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
This should all sound pretty familiar to you, as it's
the same narrative he gave to the NPD, but there's
one minor inconsistency. If you remember from the previous episode,
Justin told the first NPD unit that came to his
house for the wellness check that when he woke up,
he went into the kitchen and saw the pizza Jessica
(38:34):
made later that night and early the next morning, he
told the second INNOPD unit, who filed the missing person's
report that he and Jessica ate pizza rolls together in bed,
and now he tells Erica Jessica made a pizza and
they ate it in bed together while watching TV, and
that after taking their dishes to the kitchen and switching
(38:57):
out the laundry, Jessica returned to bed and lay down
with him. Of course, Erica had no knowledge of this,
so as Justin answered whatever questions she had and described
the events of that day, Erica took it all at
face value. Her angle at the time was to simply
(39:17):
try and figure out what happened to her friend, and ironically,
the moment her and Justin's conversation started drifting into theories
about what happened, that's when things started to take a turn.
Speaker 18 (39:32):
Nothing in my mind pointed to the facts that it
could have possibly been him, And so the more he
started texting me, and the more I started talking to
Maria and she would contradict himself.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Once Erica got in touch with Maria for the first time,
she started hearing maria side of things. All the while
Justin was throwing out a range of theories about what
might have happened to Jessica. A stalker, a creepy neighbor.
She admitted herself to the hospital, and the list goes on.
Speaker 18 (40:08):
He even tried to feed me the story that she's online.
She must have got a new phone, probably somebody she's with.
She met up with a new guy because she signed
on a messenger. He goes, go, look, you can see
it's active. So I would message her through Messenger, and
of course I would get a response. I'd be like,
(40:31):
is this to you?
Speaker 13 (40:31):
Where are you?
Speaker 18 (40:33):
I'm worried, sick, and a response would come back. So
then I would call for a Facebook messenger because you
can call, and then he answers the phone and I'm like.
Speaker 13 (40:45):
What the fuck Jessin?
Speaker 18 (40:47):
And I was pissed. I was livid. I was at
work on the month's break and I'm like, why are
you answering the phone? Hees, what do you mean? I said,
what do you mean? What do I mean? You said
she he was a messenger. I just called her through
messenger and you're answering what is going on? And what's
(41:07):
just completely come up with some random story again, and
it was just it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
But once news was out that Jessica's body had been found,
he settled on one theory suicide.
Speaker 17 (41:24):
I'm sure they've all jumped on the Maria bandwagon. I mean,
why not everyone else has, and it's a better story
than the truth. Let's see, Jessica had mental illness and
committed suicide or Justin's a no good piece of shit
because Maria says so, he must have had something to
do with it. Yeah, I can guess which one's easier
(41:47):
for people to deal with.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
In fact, he seemed certain that Jessica had taken her
own life and that everyone would realize it soon enough.
Speaker 17 (41:58):
After all this shit's over, and the information I've come across,
along with the truth that I've been saying all along,
will be validated by the corner's findings and the police
closed the case. You know what will change, nothing, not
a damn thing. My image in people's minds will still
be the same. Grace is going to be left with
(42:18):
the legacy of a mom who committed suicide and a
dad that everyone blamed except the police. And she'll still
be gone, and most people will be left with more
questions than answers.
Speaker 18 (42:34):
Like I laid into them. I was like, what the
fact did you do to her? I mean I just
went off. I couldn't, couldn't fake being nice anymore.
Speaker 16 (42:49):
You say you miss her and claim it was suicide,
but you tell me why in the hell should I
ever believe you. You haven't done anything but throw and blame
the other way. I tried to believe you, I tried
to empathize with you, but you have done nothing to
make me believe otherwise. You say you're distraught because Grace
(43:10):
won't have her mom to bring her to dances, but
you tell me who was really at fault. Did you
just get too mad at her? Did she try to
leave you? Jesus justin what the fuck?
Speaker 8 (43:24):
She was one of my best.
Speaker 17 (43:25):
Friends, Erica. I could respond to this in a number
of ways, most of them would not make either of
us feel very good. But I will say this, Jessica
meant the world to me, always has, and if you
or anyone else wants to blame me, I totally understand,
(43:48):
and I'll tell you why. None of you have any
idea what the fuck I've been going through, but the
links I've gone to see that jess was taken care
of in every possible way. I've come to understand why
you all blame you. Through counseling and fighting to keep
my own sanity.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
By January twenty twenty, Justin sent his final text messages
to Erica.
Speaker 17 (44:12):
I promise you. I miss Jessica minute to minute and
am really struggling with life. I swear my kids I
didn't have anything to do with what happened. But what
else can I say or do to prove it. So
many people have been so busy making me out to
be a monster. I really cannot believe it. Still, I
understand completely. It's hard to live here in some ways,
(44:34):
and it's a comfort in a few others. Every morning
I wake up, I still think she's next to me
until I wake up, and it's like going through initial
shock every day for about thirty minutes until my brain
realizes what's happening. It's fucking torture, Erica. I really don't
want to be here.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
At all.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Undetermined is a production of Resonate recordings and Tenderfoot TV
in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me
Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas,
with additional production by Whitney Bozart. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
(45:47):
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Culcher, Dayton Cole and Pat kit Glider
of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast
or are looking to start one, check us out at
(46:09):
Resonate Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score
is by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Our cover art is by Station sixteen. Voice acting by Whitney,
Bozarth and Paul Friels. You can follow Undetermined Podcasts on
Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod. Show notes as
(46:34):
well as bonus content can be found on our website,
undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed this episode, please
take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback is
greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information about
this case, call crime Stoppers at one eight seven seven
(46:57):
nine zero three seven eight.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
The tone and
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Inflection used by voice actors is not contextually accurate and
is a matter of creative interpretation.
Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out
Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not
(00:45):
be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
If somebody has disappeared and they don't have a vehicle,
they don't have have a cell phone to communicate, they
don't have any means of paying for anything.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
At that point you have to treat it like it's
a missing child. That means going door to door, going
and looking under bushes and cars. So don't make excuses
to me about manpower, because that just means you don't
want to. That's what I feel all of this boils
down to, is they just don't want to.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
But when they get a call that there's a body
found two and a half, everybody.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Everybody shows up.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
People in suits, don't even talk to you, people in
uniforms coming up and asking questions.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
And the one detective.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
That wasn't there an hour and a half before, there's
all of a sudden there and hey man, how are.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
You guys doing. We just did your job and we
found our relative. How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
You know, all of a sudden you have more than
enough people to come out.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
That's kind of embarrassing. And I was probably about.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Where you see those uh those little like concrete things
over there, when I heard her yelling from over here,
and then they ended up calling me and I rushed back,
but there was a stop training over here, so I
had to hop over and walk.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
And and just just kind of look down. That goes
pretty deep. It's way down there, so it's it's crazy.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And you guys see about where she lived, just down
the road, not very far at all, so it was
extremely close.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Yeah, gives me chills being back here.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
This is on Thursday, August twenty second, twenty nineteen, about
a week after Jessica's disappearance. Sisters Audrey and Amanda, along
with their cousin Doug, made the long trek from Mississippi
to New Orleans. First stop in OPD District three, they
(03:28):
wanted to speak to Detective One, but when they arrive,
he's not there, so they make the best of their
time and start looking around Jessica's Lakeview neighborhood, the last
place she was seeing. Scouring a map of the area,
they decide to look just on the outskirts of the
residential part of the neighborhood. Something drew them to an
(03:51):
overgrown area just passed an interstate overpass. There's a pumping
station and a hillside that leads up to some train
tracks dividing Lakeview and its adjacent neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I'm gonna led al drug kind of walk you guys
over there.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
It was greways down there.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
So me, Doug, and Amanda got here by the pumping
station number seven and was scouting out places to look at.
Amanda stayed in the car to talk to Maria to
tell her what was going on, what our next plan was,
And me and Doug got out the car and.
Speaker 7 (04:29):
We went over the railroad tracks.
Speaker 8 (04:34):
We crossed the train and he told me go look
over that way by the woods, and that's what I did.
I went over there, and I was walking alongside of
the train and I seen like a white tarp down
there's like a leg a hill with rocks on it,
(04:54):
and I've seen a white tarp, and I thought, oh
my god, I hope my sister's not underneath there. So
to walk down there, but I slid all the way
down and my foot hit the tarp, and I just
remember thinking, please, don't let my sister be underneath there.
And I pulled up the tarp and she wasn't there,
and I was so relieved.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Though Audrey felt a sense of relief in this moment,
her search continued. She had a strong feeling about this
area and felt something calling to her, urging her to
keep looking.
Speaker 8 (05:30):
And then literally maybe five ten feet I just stayed
down there, and I jumped on a railroad tie and
then I turned around, and then as clear as day,
I heard a voice that said, no, look again. And
I looked again. And that's whenever. So when I seen
her legs, when I seen her back, and I started screaming.
Speaker 7 (06:01):
No one heard me. I was just sitting here screaming.
Speaker 9 (06:11):
I walked back up the hime, and then I walked
back down and I looked again because I thought, maybe
that's not what I'm seeing. And I fell to the
grand and just started screaming, and and then I called
my sister on the phone and I said, I found Jessica.
Speaker 8 (06:43):
She was just laying there, and I knew it was
my sister, Like I knew it was her.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
And it was her.
Speaker 7 (06:50):
Knee that was black, and she had black shorts, she
had on a black shirt. Her feet were covered by
some bushes, and then like her head was kind of
covered by some bushes.
Speaker 8 (07:07):
Too, but I could see her.
Speaker 7 (07:14):
She was just laying there like someone set her down
or something like a pizza trush. She was only two
enough foughts from her house. She was a person, no
matter what what she was into or anything, she didn't
deserve to die like that.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
We were all kind of shocked, you know, we were
all kind of kind of scared. Obviously, reality kind of
kicks in.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
This is Jessica's cousin, Doug Schmidt, who accompanied Audrey and
Amanda in their search for Jessica. Doug works in the
funeral home industry and sees the deceased on a daily basis.
Still the scene was jarring to him.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
She wasn't facing us, she was facing another direction, and
she was kind of more or less sitting in a
fetal position, and the surroundings didn't really seem really natural
as far as Okay, well, I don't know what's going on.
I'm not a police officer, not a detective. But I
told him, I said, look, if this is her or
(08:31):
if it's not, this is still a dead body, and
we need to get away from this right now and.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Call the police.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
And they did just that. As they waited, Amanda call
Jessica's friend Maria to let her know what had happened.
Speaker 10 (08:46):
She was like, we found a body. Police are on
the way, like just that quick, so fast, We're going
to look around. We found her, and I remember like
just howling like a bansheet and like walking around my
living room in circles and being like, oh my god,
I'm so sorry, just like I knew it was her.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Back at the scene, it wasn't long before the area
was flooded with emergency personnel and police, including Detective lun When.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
They showed up, it was a few detectives and we
walked them to where we found her and of course,
they doing their thing. They're asking questions about what's the
story here, and we kind of filled them in a
little bit about what we knew up to that point
that look, she was missing. We came down because it
had been ten days and we were worried about our
(09:38):
relative and went over everything with them, and of course
they took pictures. Corners Office showed up and removed her
and all. And I remember my cousin Mandy really wanted
to see because at the point, you know, you couldn't
really see anything, and the level of decomp ten days
(10:00):
and the heat in that area, I mean, it kind
of was rapid.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
We asked them, said, look, these are her sisters.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Man to hear wants to see her because she wants
to know if this is her or not, because they
had this gut.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Feeling that look, no, that's that's my sister. I remember
him saying, the level of d comp's bad.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Soft tissues are removed, it's you don't want to see.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
The family was certain it was Jessica, but sadly, due
to the level of decomposition from the New Orleans heat,
they wouldn't get a positive identification that day. In fact,
they didn't feel like they got much of anything out
of the NPD that day. According to Doug, the scene
was cleared within an hour.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Looking back, I kind of expect a little bit more.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
They interviewed us, of course, they took some pictures of
the immediate area, and then that was it. They didn't
really expand past just that one little section, And that
always seemed kind of to me.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
It really did, really really odd.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
It didn't seem like it wasn't as big a deal
as it should have been to them. This was a
missing person's case that was reported missing. This wasn't like,
oh she was missing and no one reported its Like.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
No, they knew.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
They knew our level of interest, our level of involvement.
They knew it. The detective that we were going to
see that day showed up on the scene and talked
to us. You know, of course we're kind of looking
at them, like, I mean, the house is a straight
shot from here. This seems awfully closed for so many
miss in ten days, and three amateurs who don't even
(11:39):
live in the area, have never been to this area
can put two and two together and just start looking around.
Even looking back, it just still feels odd to me
because I expected more. I expect a lot more, and
it just never happened.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
It just never happened.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And when the NOPD wrapped up at the scene, what
was left was a police report, a fairly brief one
at that the incident is listed as an unclassified death
and specifically states that is not a result of a
hate crime or domestic violence. The narrative says, in part.
Speaker 11 (12:24):
At approximately twelve thirty six pm, police officer Everett Briscoe
was dispatched to the intersection of Orleans Avenue in Kenilworth
Street to investigate a report of a miscellaneous incident, Whereas
the reporting person, Amanda Barnes, stated, while searching for her sister,
who was reported missing, she located the deceased body of
an unknown white female.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Officers reported her as wearing a gray shirt and blue shorts,
and also noted that she was in an advanced stage
of decomposition. It, in essence, that's the police report. As
Doug Audrey and Amanda drove away from the scene that afternoon,
(13:08):
they were at a loss. The only thing they knew
for sure in that moment was that Jessica was no
longer missing. She was gone forever, you know.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
There was a lot of emotions going on.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
There was a lot of anger, there was a lot
of confusion, a lot of sadness, and it just felt
like it was just like a roller coaster. I know,
we all had hoped that she was still alive somewhere,
and you kind of hang on to that, and then
you start hoping that maybe this wasn't her.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Because me not being.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Near as close to Jessica as my two cousins were,
I felt the degree of sadness because I mean, I
I can't even imagine I couldn't you know, I have
three sisters of my own, and even trying to look
at it from their perspective just makes me just want
(14:10):
to shut down.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Eventually reality would set in, but it would take some time.
It wasn't until nearly three months later, in November of
twenty eighteen, that the body would officially be matched to
Jessica through DNA. According to the family, the delay was
a result of the NPD misplacing the original DNA sample
(14:34):
submitted by Jessica's mother. Nonetheless, they got their answer, a
rather unwanted one, and there would be more to follow.
Two months later, January of twenty twenty would turn out
to be a quite eventful month for the case. The
corner listed both the cause and manner of death as
(14:57):
undetermined or a coroner's examination. They typically include the cause
and manner of death. Manner of death can be natural,
accidental suicide, homicide, or if it's unknown but is not
considered natural causes, they can classify it as undetermined. In
(15:20):
Jessica's case, her injuries, which we'll get to in a minute,
did not indicate exactly how she died. Therefore, they also
ruled her cause of death as undetermined. This obviously didn't
sit well with the family. It seemed they were even
further from closure than they thought. Everything was up in
(15:40):
the air. To make matters worse, that same day, Audrey
and Amanda learned that they wouldn't even be able to
lay their sister to rest. Her remains were released to
her husband justin This came as a surprise to them
and they were crushed. And as if that wasn't enough
(16:00):
bad news for one month, the most shocking revelation would
come the last day of the month, January thirty first,
twenty twenty, when the coroner released the autopsy report to
the family. They hoped it would provide some answers. Instead,
it would only raise more questions. We were given access
(16:23):
to the report by Jessica's family. Here's what it says.
Jessica's time of death was listed as August twenty second,
twenty nineteen, one h five pm, which is when she
was found and officially pronounced deceased at the scene. The
autopsy indicates several injuries to Jessica's body, including a broken
(16:46):
nose and jaw. She also sustained post mortem injuries, meaning
they happened after she was deceased. Those include a broken
rib and C four vertebrae, which is located in the neck.
At the time of her autopsy, Doctor O'Sullivan, a forensic
pathologist with the Orleans Parish Corner's Office, collected evidence samples
(17:10):
from Jessica's body, including two envelopes of fingernail clippings, a
heart charmed necklace from her neck, and her clothing black
tank top, black shorts, pink underwear, and a pair of
black shoes, which contradicted what the nopedie reported her wearing
gray shirt and blue shorts. The doctor also notates a
(17:33):
sun and moon tattoo on her lower right abdomen following
the autopsy, a toxicology screening was conducted by forensic toxicologist
doctor Sherry Katinko with NMS Labs. Testing shows levels of
memph amphetamine, amphetamine, alcohol, and prescription drugs including buproprian and
(17:59):
hydroxyu approprian. The report raises a lot of questions, and
I wanted to better understand what everything meant to do
that I sought on an expert, a woman I had
connected with a few years back, ironically in New Orleans
during Crime con an annual true crime convention, where she
(18:19):
was speaking as a forensics expert.
Speaker 12 (18:23):
My name is doctor Kimberly Massik.
Speaker 13 (18:25):
I am an assistant professor of criminology and Victimology at
Indian River State College, as well as the founder and
director of.
Speaker 14 (18:34):
The Institute for Cold Case Investigations, which works directly with
law enforcement agencies going through cold cases that are in
our local area.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
While doctor Masnik hasn't conducted an official investigation into this case,
we asked her to look over the documents we have
and share her thoughts.
Speaker 12 (18:57):
And the Jessica Easterly case.
Speaker 13 (19:00):
Jessica was found ten days after she actually went missing.
Speaker 12 (19:06):
She's in New Orleans.
Speaker 13 (19:08):
She's in a fairly good state of decomposition from the
trunk up so the body is Jessica's body is removed
and she is taken to the examiner's office and when
they receive her, she is received in the bag upside down,
and the process for her very little is actually done
(19:33):
because of the level of decomposition. And you have to
think it's New Orleans is very much like where I
live in Florida. It's extremely hot, it's extremely humid, which
is going to make the person their level of decomposition
happen much quicker. So she's not in the most pristine
(19:54):
condition she can be in to run all of the
tests that would normally be run. You go ahead and
do toxicology on her, but unfortunately they can't take it.
Speaker 12 (20:06):
We can't get blood samples.
Speaker 13 (20:07):
She's been out there for ten days, so either her
blood has dried up or because of the decomposition, the
blood has flowed into her body cavity, so therefore it's compromised.
So the one thing that they're really able to do
is to send off and have a piece of her
liver examined. Again, you have to remember that Jessica's liver
(20:32):
has now been out and in the public sun that
and everything else for ten days, so it is also
going through changes both chemically and physically.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
There are many challenges experts face when dealing with a
highly decomposed body, as was the case here. Doctor Masnik
puts it simply, if you don't test for it, you're
not going to find it. But in Jasica's case, they
were able to find some things.
Speaker 13 (21:04):
So there were only about five or six drugs that
were tested for that we know of.
Speaker 12 (21:10):
Most of them come back to either.
Speaker 13 (21:12):
Illicit drugs that she was on potentially for depression, or
she was being given by somebody for depression, or they
are items that could have shown up in her liver
in her system just simply due to this. The ethanol
is absolutely an alcohol, a drug that shows up in
(21:33):
the system due to decomp When I look at the
things that are said about Jessica in the report, the report.
Speaker 12 (21:42):
Say she's either a very low.
Speaker 13 (21:45):
Level user of myth because it doesn't say anything about,
you know, major blemishes to her skin, her teeth, or
in fair condition. There's nothing that we see when we
look at people that are major meth addicts.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
However, she says it's important to understand how meth metabolizes
in the body.
Speaker 13 (22:10):
Meth breaks down very quickly based on when you take
it and how much you take and how you take it.
So it's more than likely that if they're finding meth
in her body, that it was very recently taken and
it would not have been ingested because the stomach would
(22:31):
have dissolved it. That would lower the level very quickly.
Meth isn't going to increase because of decomposition.
Speaker 12 (22:40):
Or anything else. If meth is there, then meth is there.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
We asked doctor Masnak. If there's a potential overdose here.
Speaker 13 (22:49):
You have to remember they were not able to run
tests as extensively as they would have if it had
been a fresh or an interior past. You have to
realize they used her liver to do most of the testing,
so the liver itself was also going through changes.
Speaker 12 (23:09):
So yes, it is very likely that it did go down.
Speaker 13 (23:13):
But then again, I still have to I'm speculating, and
it's based on just my knowledge of what the average
meth addicts looks like. One, if she's not a consistent user,
and two, even a heavy dose ten hours later, only
half of it's going to be in her system. And
(23:35):
then After that, you've got the ten days until we
even pick her up, and then you've got extra time
before the autopsy even happens.
Speaker 12 (23:44):
So there's no way.
Speaker 13 (23:46):
Of knowing exactly how much meth was in her system
at the time of her death.
Speaker 12 (23:51):
You have to go back and look. There's nothing.
Speaker 13 (23:55):
Nobody mentions anything about her. The husband is saying, you know,
they were taking a nap, so it's not like they
were at a party. There's nothing there that jumps out
to me and says that she took a heavy dose
of myth at that point in time, even though there's
also nothing that tells me that she didn't.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And while Jessica had traces of methamphetamine in her system
at the time of her toxicology examination, her family doesn't
believe she was habitually using meth. It's also unclear what
exactly Jessica had prescriptions for and whether or not the
drugs found in her system at the time of her
death or prescription. But apart from the drugs, I also
(24:41):
wanted to know if there was any way to determine
what Jessica's cause of death could have been based off
her injuries she.
Speaker 13 (24:50):
Was found with Basically her nose is broken and her
jaw is broken, and they do not state, so I
can only assume or presume that that was either.
Speaker 12 (25:05):
Pre mortem or anti mortem.
Speaker 13 (25:09):
They don't ever mention whether or not there's any blood
in or around those areas, so I can't tell exactly
at what point she received those. But they do state
that her C four vertebrate as well as her rib
or broken, and those are post mortem. I am feeling,
(25:30):
based on what very little information we have, that this
is Jessica's.
Speaker 12 (25:36):
A dumb sight. Because we have such little information.
Speaker 13 (25:41):
That's why the coroner up there turns around and gives
us a manner and cause of death of being undetermined.
As much as I don't like it, undetermined is actually
probably the best thing to leave it at at this
point in time.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Although doctor Masnik is of the belief that Jessica's body
was dumped at the site, implicating some degree of foul play,
she says ultimately there's just not enough information to know
for sure, and adds that a classification of homicide would
be an overreach without definitive evidence on her body to
(26:18):
support it. But before we move on, I want you
to know there was something else found on her body.
That further supports the theory of it being moved, something
my partner Todd and I discussed at length.
Speaker 15 (26:34):
We do know from a source that was at the
scene when her body was discovered, who makes their living
working with dead bodies, she had liver mortis on the
outside of her knee that was the opposite knee of
the knee that was touching the ground.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Let's break that down for someone who may not know
what post mortem liver mortis is, because I had to
have you explain it to me. And so let's begin
with Jessica's found laying on her side.
Speaker 13 (27:11):
Right.
Speaker 15 (27:12):
Yeah, for this argument's sake, we're not saying which side
she was discovered on right, but if she was discovered
on her left side, then we would be talking about
the right knee, and the liver mortis had set in
on the outside of that right knee, which is facing
the sky, pointed to straight up at the sky. From
a layman or detective's understanding of what liver mortis is
(27:34):
and what it occurs, it's post mortem lividity, which means
it happens after death. So about twenty minutes after you die,
the red blood cells start to separate themselves from the
plasma because your heart's not beating anymore and it's not
circulating the blood, so it works its way out of
vessels and whatnot into tissue and then it pulls and
(27:57):
it's falling because of gravity, tore the ground. So they're
able to determine how you were positioned at the time
you died, and it would mean that you laid there
in that position for a minimum probably of two hours,
probably closer to six the way this was described.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
So what this proves is she died laying on one side.
She was found laying on the opposite side. Right between
this revelation and everything we discussed with doctor Masnik, there's
plenty of process here, and still something that gnaws at
(28:38):
me is just how close her body was to her house.
So now with all of this in mind, Todd and
I decided to go back to the spot where Jessica
was found. This time at night, it's eerie. Visibility is lacking.
(28:59):
I'm on edge with every little noise I hear. It's
a little unsettling out here this late at night. It's
almost ten o'clock, it's dark, it's desolate this time of night.
Quite the contrast from the bustling neighborhood we first visited
(29:19):
in the daytime. Now no one is around, and one
lonely street light illuminates a small patch of street and grass. Now,
in August of twenty nineteen, this grassy area was overgrown,
very weedy. You know, it didn't look like it does now.
(29:43):
Now it's pretty manicured. I mean, it could probably use
a mo but it looks like it's been mowed recently,
within a week or so. I'd say.
Speaker 15 (29:51):
There's a little pool in area, a little cutout in
the curb so that vehicles can pull into the slot
and it splits the lot in the middle. So if
it was this light wasn't here, then it was really dark.
You could pull in there, and if it were overgrown,
you could pull anything out of your car and just
slide it.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
We find out after leaving New Orleans the light was
in fact newly installed this year. If they pull in
to this, I'm gonna say, now you were you were
mentioning this. This pull in kind of divides this this area,
so you got half the lot over here. The other
(30:34):
half on the other side is not far at all
from another house.
Speaker 15 (30:39):
No from Oh, I'm standing now, I could throw a
baseball and hit that house, So it's it's risky. It's
a risky spot, even though it's dark and it is
visually and esthetically separated from this very nice edition they
lived in.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
It's perplexing how she ends up this close to her
house if you're wanting to conceal her. Right, there are many, many,
many places we've seen driving around within minutes of driving
a couple of minutes that would seemingly be easier to
(31:17):
conceal long term, possibly forever.
Speaker 15 (31:19):
This is so close, and not only that, you have
way more privacy in these other areas, you're way less
likely to be spotted being parked there or doing something
wrong there. I mean, granted we're talking about you know,
this is kind of creepy. It's dark, it looks different
than the other side of the overpass. All that, yet
we are very very close to houses and people, and
(31:42):
that's never a great strategy for dumping a dead body.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, And as we have discussed, the location could have
been the opportunity that presented itself to do something quickly
and with haste, as opposed to planning and thinking of
a location that would be better suited to conceal.
Speaker 15 (32:05):
It's hard to believe that this was anyone's master plan.
If any time at all was invested in what should
I do with this woman's body?
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Now?
Speaker 15 (32:14):
Where should I put it? Then I doubt this was
plan A.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
We didn't stay long, but seeing this place at night
did add some perspective. It's not the best place to
hide a body by any stretch of the imagination, but
at night it is a very easy place to get
away with it, albeit if only temporarily, which is why
Todd believes this was not some thought out plan, rather
(32:45):
a rush decision made on the fly. So at this
point we have at least some clarity as to how
her body got to where it was found. But what
about the cause and manner of death. That's something that's
still seemed difficult to draw any conclusions, not to mention
who's responsible. Theories were beginning to swirl, especially between those
(33:10):
closest to her. But what I really wanted to know
is what Justin thought. After all, he was Jessica's husband,
they lived together. He was the last person to see her.
Jessica's family had virtually no contact with Justin during this time,
but he was talking one of the people he was
(33:31):
talking to was Jessica's friend, Erica. He may remember from
episode one she attended their wedding, and while she got
to know Justin a little, they certainly weren't close. But
shortly after Jessica went missing, Erica received a text from
Justin which would ultimately turn into an extended conversation spanning
(33:53):
from August fifteenth, twenty nineteen, to February twenty sixth, twenty twenty.
Erica sent me screenshots of their text conversation. Let's begin
where their conversation started on August fifteenth, twenty nineteen, one
(34:18):
day after Jessica was reported missing and one week before
she was found. The text messages will be voiced by actors.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
Hey, it's Justin.
Speaker 16 (34:31):
Hey, what happened to Jessica. I just saw the post
on Facebook.
Speaker 17 (34:36):
She left some time after twelve pm yesterday. I was
a sleeper and I have no idea where she is
or if she's okay.
Speaker 18 (34:44):
At first, I didn't know what to believe. I was like,
what is going on? Because I saw the post on
Facebook where he said Jessica, where are you? Grace misses you?
And I'm like, what do you mean? I texted him
I was like, where's Jessica. He said, I don't know.
Gray's been throwing up, She's worried, sick, and I was
(35:05):
hopeful that he had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
You can actually see this in Erica's text. She was
there for Justin during this time. Sure, she had her
questions about Jessica's disappearance, and occasionally she'd throw out an
idea of how to maybe find her, But for the
most part, she was there to empathize.
Speaker 16 (35:29):
You need to be there for Gracie, hang in there
and keep in touch, don't be too hard on.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yourself, And by his responses, Justin seemed to appreciate her kindness.
Speaker 17 (35:42):
I'm gonna try and take a nap. If I hear anything,
I'll call you immediately. Thanks for being a good friend.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
In a way, it seemed like Erica became Justin's sounding board.
They texted frequently. Sometimes it was even lighthearted, but for
the most part it was serious. They both wanted to
find out what happened to Jessica. On August twenty ninth,
(36:10):
Erica asked Justin for an update.
Speaker 16 (36:14):
Nothing today, do you remember saying anything or doing anything?
Are her saying anything the last day? You saw her
that would help find her.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Justin responds the following day, August thirtieth, at two twenty
six in the morning, giving the full story of what
happened the day Jessica went missing. I just want to
note that at this point Jessica's body had been found,
but neither Erica nor Justin seemed to know that. Here's
their exchange.
Speaker 17 (36:47):
Gone over that day in my mind with police, even
my daughter more than just a few times. The problem
with that day is there isn't a lot to it.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Justin explained how exhausted he was that day, between getting
great ready to go back to school and Jessica coming
out of what he called a depressive cycle after a
flare up with her fiber mayalgia. He remembered sleeping in
that morning and waking up to find Jessica in the
kitchen doing laundry.
Speaker 17 (37:16):
She asked if I was hungry, and I said yes.
We talked about Grace School for a while, and she
said she was going.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
To put a pizza in the oven.
Speaker 17 (37:24):
She came back in the room when the pizza was ready,
and we ate watched TV. After we ate, she said
that I looked tired and I was abnormally tired because
Grace had just gotten out of the hospital. I was
getting her uniform for school, school supplies, all kinds of stuff,
and I didn't have any help from Jessica because she
was feeling like crap and sleeping a lot. So I said, yes,
(37:47):
I am, and she said that she had to move
the clothes to the dryer and she'd come lay down too.
She went in the kitchen with the plate, and I
remember her coming back in getting in the bed. That's
the last thing I remember for Grace woke me up
after getting home from school. That's when this all began.
I don't know, there's not a lot to it, but
(38:09):
that's what happened that morning.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
This should all sound pretty familiar to you, as it's
the same narrative he gave to the NPD, but there's
one minor inconsistency. If you remember from the previous episode,
Justin told the first NPD unit that came to his
house for the wellness check that when he woke up,
he went into the kitchen and saw the pizza Jessica
(38:34):
made later that night and early the next morning, he
told the second INNOPD unit, who filed the missing person's
report that he and Jessica ate pizza rolls together in bed,
and now he tells Erica Jessica made a pizza and
they ate it in bed together while watching TV, and
that after taking their dishes to the kitchen and switching
(38:57):
out the laundry, Jessica returned to bed and lay down
with him. Of course, Erica had no knowledge of this,
so as Justin answered whatever questions she had and described
the events of that day, Erica took it all at
face value. Her angle at the time was to simply
(39:17):
try and figure out what happened to her friend, and ironically,
the moment her and Justin's conversation started drifting into theories
about what happened, that's when things started to take a turn.
Speaker 18 (39:32):
Nothing in my mind pointed to the facts that it
could have possibly been him, And so the more he
started texting me, and the more I started talking to
Maria and she would contradict himself.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Once Erica got in touch with Maria for the first time,
she started hearing maria side of things. All the while
Justin was throwing out a range of theories about what
might have happened to Jessica. A stalker, a creepy neighbor.
She admitted herself to the hospital, and the list goes on.
Speaker 18 (40:08):
He even tried to feed me the story that she's online.
She must have got a new phone, probably somebody she's with.
She met up with a new guy because she signed
on a messenger. He goes, go, look, you can see
it's active. So I would message her through Messenger, and
of course I would get a response. I'd be like,
(40:31):
is this to you?
Speaker 13 (40:31):
Where are you?
Speaker 18 (40:33):
I'm worried, sick, and a response would come back. So
then I would call for a Facebook messenger because you
can call, and then he answers the phone and I'm like.
Speaker 13 (40:45):
What the fuck Jessin?
Speaker 18 (40:47):
And I was pissed. I was livid. I was at
work on the month's break and I'm like, why are
you answering the phone? Hees, what do you mean? I said,
what do you mean? What do I mean? You said
she he was a messenger. I just called her through
messenger and you're answering what is going on? And what's
(41:07):
just completely come up with some random story again, and
it was just it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
But once news was out that Jessica's body had been found,
he settled on one theory suicide.
Speaker 17 (41:24):
I'm sure they've all jumped on the Maria bandwagon. I mean,
why not everyone else has, and it's a better story
than the truth. Let's see, Jessica had mental illness and
committed suicide or Justin's a no good piece of shit
because Maria says so, he must have had something to
do with it. Yeah, I can guess which one's easier
(41:47):
for people to deal with.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
In fact, he seemed certain that Jessica had taken her
own life and that everyone would realize it soon enough.
Speaker 17 (41:58):
After all this shit's over, and the information I've come across,
along with the truth that I've been saying all along,
will be validated by the corner's findings and the police
closed the case. You know what will change, nothing, not
a damn thing. My image in people's minds will still
be the same. Grace is going to be left with
(42:18):
the legacy of a mom who committed suicide and a
dad that everyone blamed except the police. And she'll still
be gone, and most people will be left with more
questions than answers.
Speaker 18 (42:34):
Like I laid into them. I was like, what the
fact did you do to her? I mean I just
went off. I couldn't, couldn't fake being nice anymore.
Speaker 16 (42:49):
You say you miss her and claim it was suicide,
but you tell me why in the hell should I
ever believe you. You haven't done anything but throw and blame
the other way. I tried to believe you, I tried
to empathize with you, but you have done nothing to
make me believe otherwise. You say you're distraught because Grace
(43:10):
won't have her mom to bring her to dances, but
you tell me who was really at fault. Did you
just get too mad at her? Did she try to
leave you? Jesus justin what the fuck?
Speaker 8 (43:24):
She was one of my best.
Speaker 17 (43:25):
Friends, Erica. I could respond to this in a number
of ways, most of them would not make either of
us feel very good. But I will say this, Jessica
meant the world to me, always has, and if you
or anyone else wants to blame me, I totally understand,
(43:48):
and I'll tell you why. None of you have any
idea what the fuck I've been going through, but the
links I've gone to see that jess was taken care
of in every possible way. I've come to understand why
you all blame you. Through counseling and fighting to keep
my own sanity.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
By January twenty twenty, Justin sent his final text messages
to Erica.
Speaker 17 (44:12):
I promise you. I miss Jessica minute to minute and
am really struggling with life. I swear my kids I
didn't have anything to do with what happened. But what
else can I say or do to prove it. So
many people have been so busy making me out to
be a monster. I really cannot believe it. Still, I
understand completely. It's hard to live here in some ways,
(44:34):
and it's a comfort in a few others. Every morning
I wake up, I still think she's next to me
until I wake up, and it's like going through initial
shock every day for about thirty minutes until my brain
realizes what's happening. It's fucking torture, Erica. I really don't
want to be here.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
At all.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Undetermined is a production of Resonate recordings and Tenderfoot TV
in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me
Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas,
with additional production by Whitney Bozart. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
(45:47):
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Culcher, Dayton Cole and Pat kit Glider
of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast
or are looking to start one, check us out at
(46:09):
Resonate Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score
is by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Our cover art is by Station sixteen. Voice acting by Whitney,
Bozarth and Paul Friels. You can follow Undetermined Podcasts on
Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod. Show notes as
(46:34):
well as bonus content can be found on our website,
undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed this episode, please
take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback is
greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information about
this case, call crime Stoppers at one eight seven seven
(46:57):
nine zero three seven eight.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
The tone and
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Inflection used by voice actors is not contextually accurate and
is a matter of creative interpretation.
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