December 9, 2022 • 27 mins
In episodes 1 and 2, you heard NOPD body cam footage, which was recorded during two separate visits to the Durnings’ home shortly after Jessica went missing. In this episode, Jessica and Todd share their analysis of the body cam footage.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey listeners, Jessica here. Be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out
Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
matter such as violence and graphic descriptions which may not
(00:45):
be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey guys,
(01:13):
this is Jessica. In this bonus episode, Todd and I
wanted to take a minute to share our thoughts around
the New Orleans police body cam footage we played in
the first couple of episodes. This footage is from the
units who went to Jessica and Justin's home the day
she went missing. The first recording was from that wellness
check spurred by Maria's call to police to report Jessica missing,
(01:36):
and the second was from a unit that arrived on
scene to officially fill out a missing person's report about
two hours later. The footage is recorded within hours of
the last time anyone ever saw Jessica. So it's incredibly
important to help us understand more about this case. Because
my background is in investigative reporting and Todd's is in
(01:58):
law enforcement, we have different lenses through which we look
at case materials like this, and part of our on
the ground investigation has included nightly debriefs where we talk
about case material together. Todd is a former detective, so
his insight is invaluable in helping me understand what really
happened that night. His perspective has been so helpful to
(02:20):
me personally that I thought I would share with you
one of our late night recording sessions as we sat
inside our New Orleans hotel in the Fringe Quarter watching
those bodycam videos together. Now keep in mind we probably
sat there glued to a laptop for about five or
six hours, but we condensed that down for you so
(02:41):
you can get a clearer idea of how the sequence
of events that night could have had an impact on
the rest of the investigation into Jessica's case. Let's start
with that first wellness check.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Okay, So this is Jessica in Todd Jean bodycam footage
from August fifteenth, twenty nineteen. This will be the lead
officer in the wellness.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Check three six one seven. Sorry I came out the back.
Oh did you live here? Yeah? Six year? We're told
(03:29):
is your one ill here? Sorry? Someone sick here? No,
nobody's sick here, sick. He don't buy you.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
No, no, no, he's.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
We got a call though. Yeah, I know. It's one
of my wife's friends.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And let me let me just say hi.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So he's not walking at you guys.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
You guys have okay, look, sure you call no, no,
because she's what missy.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
No, I mean not buddy, it's a college of.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Was really excited? Sure your wife? Yeah, because she's.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Her car cars here while it's here longing.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Like twelve thirty twelve fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
I fell asleep, So I don't really yes, sir, And
I mean I know sr B.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That's why I didn't call you, guys.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
I call I called jpso think you she might have
a tech traffic attachment. I call it OPP seven, the
same thing I called East Jefferson.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
She's depressed, bipolar, but she's on meds and stuff and.
Speaker 7 (04:36):
It's okay, so so far.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
The cop that's talking to him has no information about
what this one, this check is even about. Now we
know for a fact that the call was made from Maria, right,
and Maria reported what they had talked about before the
things were going back. There was a plan she was
(05:01):
going to meet her this day.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
She couldn't get a hold of her. She was worried
about her.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And that I think her husband might have done something
to her. That was the information given for the welfare check.
Now they're sending an officer out with none of that information.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
He first he look for an elderly person living alone,
and then it's someone sick here, like.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right, I mean, so we're getting off of the wrong
foot because armed with the information that really was given
during the report to cause the wellness check, you already
know this call is elevated, right, Like this could be
a big deal.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Because he's giving the information new to this officer that
seems to have no idea why he's there.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yes, and you can tell like probably the officer's not
paying attention to things he should be because he's still
trying to catch up on why he's even there, Like
so far, the officer has way too many distractions going
on for right now.
Speaker 7 (06:00):
Absolutely deal with this dog.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
He has to deal with catching up to the story
because no one at dispatch gave him the full information
that came in on the initial call to cause us
wellness check. There's just a lot of problems to get started.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
So yeah, she said she left before like this is
the length of time.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Never, never, And that's what's got to be concerned. And
you know, I called who called you?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Guys?
Speaker 6 (06:24):
I called a friend of hers who overreacts to everything,
and I told her, Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, I mean well, because first you said you're freaking out,
then you're saying you're concerned, and then you say her
friend must have called you. She overacts to everything. Well,
which is it?
Speaker 7 (06:41):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Did she ever react? Are you concerned?
Speaker 7 (06:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Because if you're freaking out, as you said, and that's
a quote, why is it overreacting for her to freak out?
Speaker 8 (06:50):
Right?
Speaker 5 (06:52):
But I mean since twelve thirty day she just apparently
warned it off and we're just now getting the call.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
I mean, well, know what happened was said, I woke
up about oh, I came home from school. I woke
up around okay, piece was made, A piece was okay,
and she's gone right. And the course here, the keys
are here versus here, you know, and she doesn't go
wandering off.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
She's not from here.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
She's lived here seven years, six six years.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
So you know, I was kind of giving it in,
you know, another hour or two before I called you guys, because.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
If she warned her back, I mean, she's never done
that before. No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
No, okay, Now I'm bothered. Ask him a question. Stop
and let it breathe let them, let them finish their
thought so you can get the full information in the
full story. And he's not doing that here, and it's
driving me crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And what information he is getting, he's not using to
his advantage because he thought he was coming there first
for an elderly man that lives by himself that's having
some issue. And then oh no, wait minute, it was
someone was ill. Maybe that was the same man. But
now he discovers through this man that he counters that
lives there, that his wife has been missing since four
(08:03):
o'clock this afternoon and it's after ten pm now, since twelve. Well,
he said he fell asleep and woke up at four
and she was gone right, so at least four to
then and then he he says, I know who called
you too. It was her friend who lives in Alabama,
and she always overreacts, So now you're already armed with
(08:24):
enough information to go. Wait a minute, partner, we had
the wrong information on this. Will you get all the
information from the call from this friend that called in
and see what she reported exactly, because then you're gonna
find out she says, I think the husband did something
to her. And now this might change the way you're
approaching this, you know what I mean, because he's not
acting appropriately for a call of this nature.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
The officer isn't you've done well in his test?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And are do you normally go to the residents armed
with more information than this?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, yeah, usually you're given I mean, this is a
problem with the communication from the dispatch obviously, which now
they receive it a lot of times over their terminal
and their car the computer and it just pops up
with whatever the dispatcher types in. So either the dispatcher
typed in there was another wellness check somewhere else and
got the too confused and typed in the wrong information,
(09:21):
or he didn't pay any attention to what was typed
in there. I mean one of the two. He has
a totally wrong information. And we know Maria called it
in and we know what she said, and we know
that she didn't say there's an elderly man that lives
here by himself. It's not feeling well. So now I
got to stop for a second. Ago, wait a minute.
(09:42):
The guy that lives here, whose wife has been missing
for you know, at least six hours at this point,
her best friend called.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
He didn't.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And when the best friend called in, she said she
was supposed to pick her up today because they were
having domestic issues and she was scared, and now she
can't get a hold of her, and she's afraid her
husband has done something to her that changes everything, and
he's not doing it.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
He didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
This was the perfect time, once you got that information,
to regroup a second and see why you're there.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And that's that's my concern.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
And you know, we've we've been a little different. She's
been Lucy stressed out for a couple of reasons because,
like a fifteen year old is inside, and she got
overwhelmed right before going to high school for the first time, and.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
Well, you you you checked all some good places that
you need to check, hospitals in jail. I would never
put anything like jail, you know, but at this point
I think of the most group were required.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Of course, they told me twenty four hours.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Now, well, I believe the circumstances done in twenty four hours.
It's coming to play. She just she disappeared. I mean, right,
you could have done this for four dollars ago. I
mean it's it's spriscious and un due to her, her
her medication and all that other stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I would think she's been she's making.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
As alarmed as an officer. Just it's a way that
he was about how suspicious.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
This is.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
The next move right now is okay, let's put the
dog up somewhere and let's go inside and talk.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
Right now, Let's see what he does, because.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
We're gonna, like I said, we come out. We're gonna
have a different unit come out a little bit on
an out, and let's see if she pops up.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So in this check, all they did was ask why
are we here?
Speaker 7 (11:26):
Why are we here?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And that was it.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And now they're like, okay, wait a minute, this this
is really a missing person's report. We need to send
a different unit to come take that report. And now, listen,
here's what they have going for them. They had the
element of surprise. He didn't know the police were coming
to his house until they knocked under the door. And
(11:50):
they're there to do a wellness check, which they're not doing.
This is the problem I have with some mindsets of
some uniform officers, and it tends to be ones that
have been on too long, okay longer than they should have.
They think that they show up and all they are
(12:11):
are filling the blank. Officers, I was sitting here for something.
I'm gonna have to kick out some kind of incident report.
Let me come get enough information to fill out the
blanks and send it in there saying show I did
my job. That's not it. I think here, you're in
uniform that you don't have to investigate.
Speaker 7 (12:26):
You do.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Every police officer is an investigator. This is an investigation.
Every call for service is an investigation. You show up
and investigate. You determine what's going on at that house.
Someone called and said, my friend might be hurt.
Speaker 7 (12:44):
She's missing.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'm afraid the husband did something to her. Figure out
if that is the case or not. Or if she's okay,
that's your job. It's not to say, oh wait a minute,
I'm a wellness check officer. I'm not a take a
missing person's report officer. So let me wipe my hands clean,
get back in my car. You have a new officer
(13:05):
in another couple hours, you know.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I don't know how this patrol situation is structured. Do
they only have wellness check officers and that's their only duty?
Speaker 7 (13:14):
They just go around town? Don't?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, white wellness check?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Could they not have done the missing person's report?
Speaker 7 (13:19):
I don't get that at all.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Why did they just send another unit out?
Speaker 7 (13:23):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I don't know if it's because of their assignment whatever,
But if so, you can see the damage that stuff causes.
This is the most damaging thing that well, I'm gonna say,
I'm quite certain this is going to end up being
the most damaging thing that.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
Occurs in the first twenty four hours of this case.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
From your perspective. How important are the first twenty four
and forty eight hours in something like care Ama.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I mean, the stats speak for themselves, right, you know this?
How many cases do you cover?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I mean, if you don't solve in the first forty
eight your odds of solving that crime diminish greatly. So, yeah,
it's this whole thing is a train wreck. What you
know is that this was the last place she was seen.
So the investigation begins here. They're leaving this scene right
now without doing anything, literally anything.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
As Todd and I D briefed about the response from
the first responding officer, we highlighted the fact that this
initial unit didn't seem to have the full picture about
the information that was given to the NPD by Maria.
While we do not have the audio from that original call,
we do have Maria's account to us about what she
(14:40):
said on that call, which will be verified by a
second independent source, which is that second officer who arrives. Okay, now,
let's keep everything you just heard in mind as we
move into the second call to the house, where as
promised by the first unit, the officer showed up to
take a missing person's report a couple of hours later.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, that's gonna be just going Todd. We're watching and
critiquing officer like Krisha Gantner's bodycam labeled just after midnight.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I'm gonna give you a twenty one month.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Good.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Okay, she just said she's going to make a phone
call in whoever it is, last name one, so we
know that is Detective.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
One Anthony one.
Speaker 8 (15:32):
Earlier tonight, around ten something, a friend from out of
town called and said that she hadn't been able to
get a hold of her friend since Monday. I think
she's not answering her phone and all that. So an
officer came out here, I think a leap few officers
came out did a wellness check. Well, when they did
a wellness check, the husband says, no, I haven't heard
(15:54):
from her either. Her phone's here, her purse is here,
her meds or here, everything's here, but I haven't heard
from her, and I don't know where she's at. And
the friend that called from out of town said that
she's afraid that the husband did something to her because
(16:14):
they have a history of I guess, domestic issues.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So she's already coming in with the knowledge of what
the first officers responding to the wellness check should have
had in their pocket.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes, she's taken the time to review the call card
and get the incoming information. The information the dispatcher took
over the phone.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And she's already preparing a detective that she is there,
and this is what's going on before she even approaches justin.
Speaker 7 (16:50):
Yes, I mean that's that's exactly what you should do.
Speaker 8 (16:56):
The husband's like, yeah, everything's here, she left everything here.
I know we have contact contacting her. No, we have
none where she is because I guess she left everything
like phone, keys, that, sir.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Is her car here? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (17:11):
Her car is here too, her purse, her wallet. When
is the last time you saw.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Her, sir?
Speaker 8 (17:16):
Twelve thirty?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I'm sorry, like like noon, correct, around thirty.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
You saw her in You saw her in person, right, yeah,
he saw her in person. She was here at the house.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Nothing else.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
She no, no, no, that's not what I said.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I said that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So we got like these dual conversations going on because
you can tell he's talking to Officer Griffin outside and
she is talking to Detective Lawn and somehow Detective lun
Is misconstrued something she said and she's like no, no, no, no, no,
that's not what I said, right, And I'm curious at
some point would it be her duty or detective ones
(18:00):
at a later point in time, or even like you
said earlier, a detective one coming out at this point
to say, hey, is your daughter or your daughter or
your father home? Can we talk to him see, you know,
to make sure that they didn't see something that they
hadn't told you yet, or.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Absolutely, yeah, that needs to be done. That should be
done here at some point. Especially armed with the information
that the daughter is fifteen years old, she's gonna be
able to offer good information if she saw something or
even if she didn't, that's important because that can help
narrow down time windows.
Speaker 8 (18:34):
No, he's really not it, does it Like he's just
rolled nonchalant, like, oh, you know, I have the officers
come to the polk straight side. My dad and my
daughter are sleeping. I don't want to wake them up.
But then when we get here, he's like, do you
guys need to do this in the car or do
you want to come in? You can come look through
the house if you want. You know, he's just being
(18:55):
like really weird about it. I've tried to call the
friend from out of state to see if she can
to see if she'll talk to me, but it's just
bringing and going to voicemail.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
She's probably asleep.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
She's using her observations in her common sense and her
experience as a police officer to detect that, but then
more importantly, to report it, to document it. She's passing
it on to the detective, which we didn't see during
the wellness check. It was recognized and acknowledged and then
(19:28):
quickly dismissed and forgotten about.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And then she went one step further and tried to
reach out to Maria.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Correct, she's investigating. She's not a detective at this point.
She's a field training officer. She's a patrol officer, and
she is conducting an investigation. And that's what we discussed
earlier with the other one. Just because you're in uniform
doesn't mean you're not an investigator yourself.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Oh, do you have a picture of her, like a
current picture?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Okay? Can you get that in your idea please? Mad
I have everything? Yeah, that's fine. Else, do you mind
if we walk in with you? Okay? I have my
Belgians in there, so okay.
Speaker 8 (20:07):
So what prompted you to say, okay, I need to
report her missing?
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Like around eight o'clock it was starting to get dark.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (20:15):
What else did you wake up for me? Now?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
From here about four o'clock.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
She got home at three Okay, so we according to
his statement, he went and took a nap sometime around noon,
between noon and twelve thirty that afternoon, and he says
he wakes up at four. His daughter gets home from
school at three.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So there's an hour where potentially Grace and Jessica spent
an hour alone together. Correct, Therefore Grace has potentially pertinent
information about Jessica or her whereabouts exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So just based on that statement right there, that's what
the officers armed with right now.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
And you you did talk to your daughter and ask
your daughter if she for her or actually seen her.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Or you want me to get her.
Speaker 8 (21:05):
I will, No, I don't don't have to.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Wake her up.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
It's two ATOD morning.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
She has to go to school tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Okay, So he just he said, I don't want to
wake my daughter up, but I will if you want
to speak to her. An Officer Gantner says, now, you
don't have to do that. She probably has school tomorrow.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
That's I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I love Officer Gantner. I think she's a really good
police officer and she's doing so well with this. That's
just one thing to point out that I feel as
a mistake.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, because we we established before there is an our window.
If he was sleeping until four, Grace gets home at three,
then he created an our window of Grace and Jessica
alone time that she can account for that he cannot.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yes, and she's a juvenile. You need the parents' permission
to speak to her.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
She just gave.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
He just gave it.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And now if at some point he goes from a
report party to a suspect and lawyers up, he's not
going to allow access to the daughter either. So this
was your window. Alf sh Gantner said when they were
first walking there that she would she wants to walk
through the entire house, and I think she should have
stuck with that plan and just kind of insisted on it.
He would have, he would have allowed her, I'm sure.
(22:19):
And if he would have all of a sudden he
allowed her to search everywhere in the house except this
one place, then that would have become concerning for her
and probably step things up on her behalf. Also, the
easiest place to work your way into in the house
is the bathroom, at least the common area bathroom. Maybe
(22:41):
you can't it doesn't make sense to go to the
master bathroom, but it's a trick we always use all
the time, and anything like this where you think someone
would have been injured, is for the officer who's not
speaking directly to the person to ask to use the restroom.
And then you get to go in the bathroom and
you just kind of look a little bit. You don't
(23:01):
go outside the scope of your duties, but you look
around everywhere that you're lawfully allowed to look around. Once
you're allowed access to the bathroom. You don't start opening
cabinet drawers because a body can't fit in the cabinet
drawer yet, but you look around very closely to see
if there's something out of.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
The ordinary, right right.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And this is a bit of armchair quarterbacking because she
did a great job overall, but it's something she missed
that I would have expected her to utilize. Now she
doesn't have the benefit of being with another experienced officer
to be that second person who would usually come up
with that idea, and she's handling everything herself, so she's
(23:41):
probably a little more distracted than she would have been
with another veteran person to work with her. But I
just felt like those are two fairly sizable mistakes or
things that weren't done, and one was to talk to
the daughter when given the opportunity, and to try to
get a lot at more of the house, especially.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
The bathroom, especially since he offered up both of those things.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I agree, I think that might be the only mistake here,
because I believe after this the doors are closed.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, and she you know, overall, I wish Officer Gantner
was investigating this case. I wish she was the detective
in this case because so far, in this entire thing,
she has been the best part of the law enforcement
side of this thing, like she really knows.
Speaker 7 (24:28):
What she's doing.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
We've mentioned this before, but the police bodycam audio raises
a serious accusation about previous domestic violence between Justin and Jessica.
But it's important to understand that Justin has never been
charged with any crimes of domestic violence against Jessica, so
we need to maintain an open mind. Investigation like this
(25:01):
are complex and they happen in real time, which can
expose challenges when looked at in hindsight. If this had
been the first police unit to respond to Jessica's home,
Todd and I are confident that her case may be
in a very different status today. One takeaway for Todd
and me from reviewing this body cam footage is that
(25:24):
we are now more committed than ever to determine what
really happened in the days prior and the day's following
Justin's interaction with the NOPD. Ultimately, our investigation is still
ongoing and will continue until we exhaust every avenue. Hopefully
(25:44):
this has been as insightful to you as it was
for me. Be sure to follow along with our investigation
as we continue to unpack this story in our next episode.
Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV
(26:05):
in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me
Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas,
with additional production by Whitney Bozarth. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozarth, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
(26:27):
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat Kicklider of
the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or
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Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score is
(26:49):
by Dirt Poor Robbins with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
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Show notes as well as bonus content can be found
on our website undeterminedpod dot com. If you enjoyed this episode,
(27:12):
please take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback
is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information
about this case, call crime Stoppers at one eight seven
seven nine zero three seven eight sixty seven
Hey listeners, Jessica here. Be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
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Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
matter such as violence and graphic descriptions which may not
(00:45):
be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey guys,
(01:13):
this is Jessica. In this bonus episode, Todd and I
wanted to take a minute to share our thoughts around
the New Orleans police body cam footage we played in
the first couple of episodes. This footage is from the
units who went to Jessica and Justin's home the day
she went missing. The first recording was from that wellness
check spurred by Maria's call to police to report Jessica missing,
(01:36):
and the second was from a unit that arrived on
scene to officially fill out a missing person's report about
two hours later. The footage is recorded within hours of
the last time anyone ever saw Jessica. So it's incredibly
important to help us understand more about this case. Because
my background is in investigative reporting and Todd's is in
(01:58):
law enforcement, we have different lenses through which we look
at case materials like this, and part of our on
the ground investigation has included nightly debriefs where we talk
about case material together. Todd is a former detective, so
his insight is invaluable in helping me understand what really
happened that night. His perspective has been so helpful to
(02:20):
me personally that I thought I would share with you
one of our late night recording sessions as we sat
inside our New Orleans hotel in the Fringe Quarter watching
those bodycam videos together. Now keep in mind we probably
sat there glued to a laptop for about five or
six hours, but we condensed that down for you so
(02:41):
you can get a clearer idea of how the sequence
of events that night could have had an impact on
the rest of the investigation into Jessica's case. Let's start
with that first wellness check.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Okay, So this is Jessica in Todd Jean bodycam footage
from August fifteenth, twenty nineteen. This will be the lead
officer in the wellness.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Check three six one seven. Sorry I came out the back.
Oh did you live here? Yeah? Six year? We're told
(03:29):
is your one ill here? Sorry? Someone sick here? No,
nobody's sick here, sick. He don't buy you.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
No, no, no, he's.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
We got a call though. Yeah, I know. It's one
of my wife's friends.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And let me let me just say hi.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So he's not walking at you guys.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
You guys have okay, look, sure you call no, no,
because she's what missy.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
No, I mean not buddy, it's a college of.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Was really excited? Sure your wife? Yeah, because she's.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Her car cars here while it's here longing.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Like twelve thirty twelve fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
I fell asleep, So I don't really yes, sir, And
I mean I know sr B.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That's why I didn't call you, guys.
Speaker 6 (04:23):
I call I called jpso think you she might have
a tech traffic attachment. I call it OPP seven, the
same thing I called East Jefferson.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
She's depressed, bipolar, but she's on meds and stuff and.
Speaker 7 (04:36):
It's okay, so so far.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
The cop that's talking to him has no information about
what this one, this check is even about. Now we
know for a fact that the call was made from Maria, right,
and Maria reported what they had talked about before the
things were going back. There was a plan she was
(05:01):
going to meet her this day.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
She couldn't get a hold of her. She was worried
about her.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And that I think her husband might have done something
to her. That was the information given for the welfare check.
Now they're sending an officer out with none of that information.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
He first he look for an elderly person living alone,
and then it's someone sick here, like.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right, I mean, so we're getting off of the wrong
foot because armed with the information that really was given
during the report to cause the wellness check, you already
know this call is elevated, right, Like this could be
a big deal.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Because he's giving the information new to this officer that
seems to have no idea why he's there.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yes, and you can tell like probably the officer's not
paying attention to things he should be because he's still
trying to catch up on why he's even there, Like
so far, the officer has way too many distractions going
on for right now.
Speaker 7 (06:00):
Absolutely deal with this dog.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
He has to deal with catching up to the story
because no one at dispatch gave him the full information
that came in on the initial call to cause us
wellness check. There's just a lot of problems to get started.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
So yeah, she said she left before like this is
the length of time.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Never, never, And that's what's got to be concerned. And
you know, I called who called you?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Guys?
Speaker 6 (06:24):
I called a friend of hers who overreacts to everything,
and I told her, Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, I mean well, because first you said you're freaking out,
then you're saying you're concerned, and then you say her
friend must have called you. She overacts to everything. Well,
which is it?
Speaker 7 (06:41):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Did she ever react? Are you concerned?
Speaker 7 (06:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Because if you're freaking out, as you said, and that's
a quote, why is it overreacting for her to freak out?
Speaker 8 (06:50):
Right?
Speaker 5 (06:52):
But I mean since twelve thirty day she just apparently
warned it off and we're just now getting the call.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
I mean, well, know what happened was said, I woke
up about oh, I came home from school. I woke
up around okay, piece was made, A piece was okay,
and she's gone right. And the course here, the keys
are here versus here, you know, and she doesn't go
wandering off.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
She's not from here.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
She's lived here seven years, six six years.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
So you know, I was kind of giving it in,
you know, another hour or two before I called you guys, because.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
If she warned her back, I mean, she's never done
that before. No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
No, okay, Now I'm bothered. Ask him a question. Stop
and let it breathe let them, let them finish their
thought so you can get the full information in the
full story. And he's not doing that here, and it's
driving me crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And what information he is getting, he's not using to
his advantage because he thought he was coming there first
for an elderly man that lives by himself that's having
some issue. And then oh no, wait minute, it was
someone was ill. Maybe that was the same man. But
now he discovers through this man that he counters that
lives there, that his wife has been missing since four
(08:03):
o'clock this afternoon and it's after ten pm now, since twelve. Well,
he said he fell asleep and woke up at four
and she was gone right, so at least four to
then and then he he says, I know who called
you too. It was her friend who lives in Alabama,
and she always overreacts, So now you're already armed with
(08:24):
enough information to go. Wait a minute, partner, we had
the wrong information on this. Will you get all the
information from the call from this friend that called in
and see what she reported exactly, because then you're gonna
find out she says, I think the husband did something
to her. And now this might change the way you're
approaching this, you know what I mean, because he's not
acting appropriately for a call of this nature.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
The officer isn't you've done well in his test?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And are do you normally go to the residents armed
with more information than this?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, yeah, usually you're given I mean, this is a
problem with the communication from the dispatch obviously, which now
they receive it a lot of times over their terminal
and their car the computer and it just pops up
with whatever the dispatcher types in. So either the dispatcher
typed in there was another wellness check somewhere else and
got the too confused and typed in the wrong information,
(09:21):
or he didn't pay any attention to what was typed
in there. I mean one of the two. He has
a totally wrong information. And we know Maria called it
in and we know what she said, and we know
that she didn't say there's an elderly man that lives
here by himself. It's not feeling well. So now I
got to stop for a second. Ago, wait a minute.
(09:42):
The guy that lives here, whose wife has been missing
for you know, at least six hours at this point,
her best friend called.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
He didn't.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And when the best friend called in, she said she
was supposed to pick her up today because they were
having domestic issues and she was scared, and now she
can't get a hold of her, and she's afraid her
husband has done something to her that changes everything, and
he's not doing it.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
He didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
This was the perfect time, once you got that information,
to regroup a second and see why you're there.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And that's that's my concern.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
And you know, we've we've been a little different. She's
been Lucy stressed out for a couple of reasons because,
like a fifteen year old is inside, and she got
overwhelmed right before going to high school for the first time, and.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
Well, you you you checked all some good places that
you need to check, hospitals in jail. I would never
put anything like jail, you know, but at this point
I think of the most group were required.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Of course, they told me twenty four hours.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Now, well, I believe the circumstances done in twenty four hours.
It's coming to play. She just she disappeared. I mean, right,
you could have done this for four dollars ago. I
mean it's it's spriscious and un due to her, her
her medication and all that other stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I would think she's been she's making.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
As alarmed as an officer. Just it's a way that
he was about how suspicious.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
This is.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
The next move right now is okay, let's put the
dog up somewhere and let's go inside and talk.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
Right now, Let's see what he does, because.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
We're gonna, like I said, we come out. We're gonna
have a different unit come out a little bit on
an out, and let's see if she pops up.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So in this check, all they did was ask why
are we here?
Speaker 7 (11:26):
Why are we here?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And that was it.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And now they're like, okay, wait a minute, this this
is really a missing person's report. We need to send
a different unit to come take that report. And now, listen,
here's what they have going for them. They had the
element of surprise. He didn't know the police were coming
to his house until they knocked under the door. And
(11:50):
they're there to do a wellness check, which they're not doing.
This is the problem I have with some mindsets of
some uniform officers, and it tends to be ones that
have been on too long, okay longer than they should have.
They think that they show up and all they are
(12:11):
are filling the blank. Officers, I was sitting here for something.
I'm gonna have to kick out some kind of incident report.
Let me come get enough information to fill out the
blanks and send it in there saying show I did
my job. That's not it. I think here, you're in
uniform that you don't have to investigate.
Speaker 7 (12:26):
You do.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Every police officer is an investigator. This is an investigation.
Every call for service is an investigation. You show up
and investigate. You determine what's going on at that house.
Someone called and said, my friend might be hurt.
Speaker 7 (12:44):
She's missing.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'm afraid the husband did something to her. Figure out
if that is the case or not. Or if she's okay,
that's your job. It's not to say, oh wait a minute,
I'm a wellness check officer. I'm not a take a
missing person's report officer. So let me wipe my hands clean,
get back in my car. You have a new officer
(13:05):
in another couple hours, you know.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I don't know how this patrol situation is structured. Do
they only have wellness check officers and that's their only duty?
Speaker 7 (13:14):
They just go around town? Don't?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, white wellness check?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Could they not have done the missing person's report?
Speaker 7 (13:19):
I don't get that at all.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Why did they just send another unit out?
Speaker 7 (13:23):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I don't know if it's because of their assignment whatever,
But if so, you can see the damage that stuff causes.
This is the most damaging thing that well, I'm gonna say,
I'm quite certain this is going to end up being
the most damaging thing that.
Speaker 7 (13:38):
Occurs in the first twenty four hours of this case.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
From your perspective. How important are the first twenty four
and forty eight hours in something like care Ama.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I mean, the stats speak for themselves, right, you know this?
How many cases do you cover?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I mean, if you don't solve in the first forty
eight your odds of solving that crime diminish greatly. So, yeah,
it's this whole thing is a train wreck. What you
know is that this was the last place she was seen.
So the investigation begins here. They're leaving this scene right
now without doing anything, literally anything.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
As Todd and I D briefed about the response from
the first responding officer, we highlighted the fact that this
initial unit didn't seem to have the full picture about
the information that was given to the NPD by Maria.
While we do not have the audio from that original call,
we do have Maria's account to us about what she
(14:40):
said on that call, which will be verified by a
second independent source, which is that second officer who arrives. Okay, now,
let's keep everything you just heard in mind as we
move into the second call to the house, where as
promised by the first unit, the officer showed up to
take a missing person's report a couple of hours later.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, that's gonna be just going Todd. We're watching and
critiquing officer like Krisha Gantner's bodycam labeled just after midnight.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I'm gonna give you a twenty one month.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Good.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Okay, she just said she's going to make a phone
call in whoever it is, last name one, so we
know that is Detective.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
One Anthony one.
Speaker 8 (15:32):
Earlier tonight, around ten something, a friend from out of
town called and said that she hadn't been able to
get a hold of her friend since Monday. I think
she's not answering her phone and all that. So an
officer came out here, I think a leap few officers
came out did a wellness check. Well, when they did
a wellness check, the husband says, no, I haven't heard
(15:54):
from her either. Her phone's here, her purse is here,
her meds or here, everything's here, but I haven't heard
from her, and I don't know where she's at. And
the friend that called from out of town said that
she's afraid that the husband did something to her because
(16:14):
they have a history of I guess, domestic issues.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So she's already coming in with the knowledge of what
the first officers responding to the wellness check should have
had in their pocket.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes, she's taken the time to review the call card
and get the incoming information. The information the dispatcher took
over the phone.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And she's already preparing a detective that she is there,
and this is what's going on before she even approaches justin.
Speaker 7 (16:50):
Yes, I mean that's that's exactly what you should do.
Speaker 8 (16:56):
The husband's like, yeah, everything's here, she left everything here.
I know we have contact contacting her. No, we have
none where she is because I guess she left everything
like phone, keys, that, sir.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Is her car here? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (17:11):
Her car is here too, her purse, her wallet. When
is the last time you saw.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Her, sir?
Speaker 8 (17:16):
Twelve thirty?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I'm sorry, like like noon, correct, around thirty.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
You saw her in You saw her in person, right, yeah,
he saw her in person. She was here at the house.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Nothing else.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
She no, no, no, that's not what I said.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I said that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So we got like these dual conversations going on because
you can tell he's talking to Officer Griffin outside and
she is talking to Detective Lawn and somehow Detective lun
Is misconstrued something she said and she's like no, no, no, no, no,
that's not what I said, right, And I'm curious at
some point would it be her duty or detective ones
(18:00):
at a later point in time, or even like you
said earlier, a detective one coming out at this point
to say, hey, is your daughter or your daughter or
your father home? Can we talk to him see, you know,
to make sure that they didn't see something that they
hadn't told you yet, or.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Absolutely, yeah, that needs to be done. That should be
done here at some point. Especially armed with the information
that the daughter is fifteen years old, she's gonna be
able to offer good information if she saw something or
even if she didn't, that's important because that can help
narrow down time windows.
Speaker 8 (18:34):
No, he's really not it, does it Like he's just
rolled nonchalant, like, oh, you know, I have the officers
come to the polk straight side. My dad and my
daughter are sleeping. I don't want to wake them up.
But then when we get here, he's like, do you
guys need to do this in the car or do
you want to come in? You can come look through
the house if you want. You know, he's just being
(18:55):
like really weird about it. I've tried to call the
friend from out of state to see if she can
to see if she'll talk to me, but it's just
bringing and going to voicemail.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
She's probably asleep.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
She's using her observations in her common sense and her
experience as a police officer to detect that, but then
more importantly, to report it, to document it. She's passing
it on to the detective, which we didn't see during
the wellness check. It was recognized and acknowledged and then
(19:28):
quickly dismissed and forgotten about.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And then she went one step further and tried to
reach out to Maria.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Correct, she's investigating. She's not a detective at this point.
She's a field training officer. She's a patrol officer, and
she is conducting an investigation. And that's what we discussed
earlier with the other one. Just because you're in uniform
doesn't mean you're not an investigator yourself.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Oh, do you have a picture of her, like a
current picture?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Okay? Can you get that in your idea please? Mad
I have everything? Yeah, that's fine. Else, do you mind
if we walk in with you? Okay? I have my
Belgians in there, so okay.
Speaker 8 (20:07):
So what prompted you to say, okay, I need to
report her missing?
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Like around eight o'clock it was starting to get dark.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (20:15):
What else did you wake up for me? Now?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
From here about four o'clock.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
She got home at three Okay, so we according to
his statement, he went and took a nap sometime around noon,
between noon and twelve thirty that afternoon, and he says
he wakes up at four. His daughter gets home from
school at three.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So there's an hour where potentially Grace and Jessica spent
an hour alone together. Correct, Therefore Grace has potentially pertinent
information about Jessica or her whereabouts exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So just based on that statement right there, that's what
the officers armed with right now.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
And you you did talk to your daughter and ask
your daughter if she for her or actually seen her.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Or you want me to get her.
Speaker 8 (21:05):
I will, No, I don't don't have to.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Wake her up.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
It's two ATOD morning.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
She has to go to school tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Okay, So he just he said, I don't want to
wake my daughter up, but I will if you want
to speak to her. An Officer Gantner says, now, you
don't have to do that. She probably has school tomorrow.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
That's I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I love Officer Gantner. I think she's a really good
police officer and she's doing so well with this. That's
just one thing to point out that I feel as
a mistake.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, because we we established before there is an our window.
If he was sleeping until four, Grace gets home at three,
then he created an our window of Grace and Jessica
alone time that she can account for that he cannot.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yes, and she's a juvenile. You need the parents' permission
to speak to her.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
She just gave.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
He just gave it.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And now if at some point he goes from a
report party to a suspect and lawyers up, he's not
going to allow access to the daughter either. So this
was your window. Alf sh Gantner said when they were
first walking there that she would she wants to walk
through the entire house, and I think she should have
stuck with that plan and just kind of insisted on it.
He would have, he would have allowed her, I'm sure.
(22:19):
And if he would have all of a sudden he
allowed her to search everywhere in the house except this
one place, then that would have become concerning for her
and probably step things up on her behalf. Also, the
easiest place to work your way into in the house
is the bathroom, at least the common area bathroom. Maybe
(22:41):
you can't it doesn't make sense to go to the
master bathroom, but it's a trick we always use all
the time, and anything like this where you think someone
would have been injured, is for the officer who's not
speaking directly to the person to ask to use the restroom.
And then you get to go in the bathroom and
you just kind of look a little bit. You don't
(23:01):
go outside the scope of your duties, but you look
around everywhere that you're lawfully allowed to look around. Once
you're allowed access to the bathroom. You don't start opening
cabinet drawers because a body can't fit in the cabinet
drawer yet, but you look around very closely to see
if there's something out of.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
The ordinary, right right.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And this is a bit of armchair quarterbacking because she
did a great job overall, but it's something she missed
that I would have expected her to utilize. Now she
doesn't have the benefit of being with another experienced officer
to be that second person who would usually come up
with that idea, and she's handling everything herself, so she's
(23:41):
probably a little more distracted than she would have been
with another veteran person to work with her. But I
just felt like those are two fairly sizable mistakes or
things that weren't done, and one was to talk to
the daughter when given the opportunity, and to try to
get a lot at more of the house, especially.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
The bathroom, especially since he offered up both of those things.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I agree, I think that might be the only mistake here,
because I believe after this the doors are closed.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, and she you know, overall, I wish Officer Gantner
was investigating this case. I wish she was the detective
in this case because so far, in this entire thing,
she has been the best part of the law enforcement
side of this thing, like she really knows.
Speaker 7 (24:28):
What she's doing.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
We've mentioned this before, but the police bodycam audio raises
a serious accusation about previous domestic violence between Justin and Jessica.
But it's important to understand that Justin has never been
charged with any crimes of domestic violence against Jessica, so
we need to maintain an open mind. Investigation like this
(25:01):
are complex and they happen in real time, which can
expose challenges when looked at in hindsight. If this had
been the first police unit to respond to Jessica's home,
Todd and I are confident that her case may be
in a very different status today. One takeaway for Todd
and me from reviewing this body cam footage is that
(25:24):
we are now more committed than ever to determine what
really happened in the days prior and the day's following
Justin's interaction with the NOPD. Ultimately, our investigation is still
ongoing and will continue until we exhaust every avenue. Hopefully
(25:44):
this has been as insightful to you as it was
for me. Be sure to follow along with our investigation
as we continue to unpack this story in our next episode.
Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV
(26:05):
in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me
Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas,
with additional production by Whitney Bozarth. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozarth, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
(26:27):
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat Kicklider of
the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or
are looking to start one, check us out at Resonate
Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score is
(26:49):
by Dirt Poor Robbins with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow
Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod.
Show notes as well as bonus content can be found
on our website undeterminedpod dot com. If you enjoyed this episode,
(27:12):
please take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback
is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information
about this case, call crime Stoppers at one eight seven
seven nine zero three seven eight sixty seven
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