January 24, 2023 • 34 mins
There’s a lot of talk about one person in this podcast. Everyone has an opinion about Jessica’s husband. But we want to hear his story first-hand.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, listeners Jessica here, be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out
Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not
(00:45):
be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. October
twenty twenty, the same month, Jessica's neighbor Laura sees authority
swabbing of futon and head board near the driveway of
the Journeys residence. A heated text message exchange starts between
(01:06):
a man from the Lakeview neighborhood and another individual who
he believes to be a fellow neighbor.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I guess if you ask like my family of friends,
they would probably be like I'm they wouldn't be surprised.
I'm curious by nature and these types of things, and
when it happens so close to your home, it tugs
on you a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
It started pretty simple, like I said, just a neighbor
texting someone he believed to be another neighbor. But what
it led to is well astounding, and now for the
first time, this neighbor is ready to share his story.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I felt like I had, I guess, a responsibility or
a duty to tell my side and say what happened,
And you know how everything went to.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
In our last episode, we learned how Jessica's sister Audrey
formed her own village of sorts within the Lakeview neighborhood,
with many Lakeview residents stepping up and helping in this
investigation in various ways. But as I had mentioned, there's
one other neighbor we spoke with who may arguably hold
(02:46):
the biggest piece of evidence in this case that we
know of, So we headed over to his Lakeview home
to sit down and hear his story. He asked to
go by a pseudonym for this podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
My name is Jay Royce. I live in the neighborhood
where Jessica Easterly was found.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Jay's involvement in this case started just like his neighbor Laura's,
when he spotted a crime stoppers flyer on a telephone
pole near his home.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I came across the sign one day on my way
home from work and googled her name because I hadn't
heard of the case or her and that kind of
opened a Pandora's box of things online with podcasts and
websites and news stories, and I started just kind of
(03:37):
doing a little more research and digging into.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
It as a concern. Neighbor Jay quickly turned into an
Internet sleuth of sorts.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I was apparently living here at the time of it happening,
and no one that I know had heard of it,
so it kind of pequed my curiosity a little bit
that a body.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Was found not far from my house. It's a little disturbing.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I mean, there's no way anyone can feel good about that,
especially not knowing officially what happened to her. But it's
just an unsettling feeling.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
He nervously takes a sip of his bourbon on the
rocks as we continue our conversation. Holding his low ball glass.
He tells us about Lakeview.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, it's a good neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I mean, we have your petty theft stuff where people
break into cars here and there, but something like that
is definitely out of the ordinary. I mean, it was
kind of a running thing where it was if you
had your car broken into or something to report that,
don't hold your breath while waiting for the police to
(04:49):
come and check on it, because they may not even
show up. And that's happened multiple times from what I've heard.
Not saying that they're bad people or anything like that,
but I think they're probably understaffed and overwhelmed and have.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It was Jay's lack of faith in the NPD that
led him to continue his online search in an attempt
to learn more about Jessica's case. Of course, in his research,
he learned of her husband, Justin. He also learned that
Justin lived in the neighborhood. So Jay opened up his
next door app, a neighborhood forum of sorts, and that's
(05:27):
when he spotted Justin.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
We had just googled his name just to see who
he was, and I noticed on one of these apps,
on like a neighborhood app. It was right around the
time of her death, where he starts posting on this
neighborhood app, just trying to be friendly with people and saying, oh, yeah,
(05:51):
I know about this, know about that. If you need
any help, call me, and he would post his number
and nobody's posting their number ever, And he did that
multiple times, and then all of a sudden had stopped,
like right around the time where it was confirmed that
it was her.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I literally just stopped. He had never posted again.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Jay was upset about everything he'd read on Jessica's case,
and since Justin had posted his phone number in the
next door app, Jay decided to text him, but since
he was a stranger to Justin, he didn't really expect
a conversation to form, but it did. While the number
J texted is the same number Justin gave to police
(06:35):
when Jessica went missing, and the same number her loved
ones had saved as Justin in their phones, it's important
to note that we have no way of verifying whether
or not Justin was in possession of the phone number
at the time of these text messages. Jay shared the
original text exchanges with us, and we're going to read
(06:56):
the ones we can and have Jay fill in the gaps.
I'll have Todd voice Jay Royce's text, and I'll voice
the other individual's text. It started on September twenty, twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Hey, justin how.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
You've been.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Great, struggling a bit.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Too bad?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Better than being in the sandbox though, huh.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
True? My dog died.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And I thought that was kind of funny because I
did see his dog being walked in the neighborhood the
day before, and I've seen his dog walked subsequently after
that as well.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I didn't text him anymore at that moment.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
While the initial text exchange ended at this point, that
wasn't the end of their communication. To Jay's surprise, things
would continue and become much more personal. For legal reasons,
we can only read certain excerpts of the next portion.
The texting commenced again on October fifteenth.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Thought your dog was dead? You aren't very sealer, silence, mortalous,
sleep tight?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
What the fuck you lay mass bitch?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Lol?
Speaker 4 (08:20):
You can't even spell fuck you bitch.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
As the conversation starts to spiral, Jay makes strong accusations.
The unknown individual replies to Jay's accusations, saying, quote, she
was cheating. At this point, you may be thinking, as
I am, why would this other individual be so open
and candid with a total stranger doesn't make sense. Well,
(08:50):
it quickly becomes evident that this person was under the
impression that Jay was someone they knew very well, saying, quote,
you were my best friend, and.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He somehow thought I was his best friend when we
were texting, never questioned who I was. So when I
realized that he thought I was somebody else, I decided
to press him a little bit, went adam hard to
get him to be a little defensive. He ended up
saying that you know, I didn't kill her.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
She slip and fell. Where in the bathroom?
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Then how'd she get to the train tracks?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Bro, I panicked and drove there.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
You need to come clean and let the family have peace.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Why if I'm an incident? We believe the other individual's
final message was intended to be why if I'm innocent?
This was the last text exchanged between Jay and the
other unknown person.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So that's when we knew that there was that he
probably is not. He's got a screw loose. I wouldn't
be surprised if he was high on something in the
midst of this, because apparently within a couple of days
he deleted this number and it was no longer his.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
It was.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
It belonged to someone else.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Take me there. How do you know that?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Well?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I know that for a couple of reasons. I know
a police officer told me it was someone else's number
at that point, and then to verify that, we texted
the guy and said, you know who is this?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
A few days later, Jay calls the number.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
We called him and he said this isn't him, and
I said, prove you aren't him and call me. So
then he called and I could tell by his voice
it wasn't him, but it was a kid, definitely wasn't
a man.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
He's like, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Jay reached out to Audrey and Maria and shared screenshots
of the text conversation.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
She was like, holy shit.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
And within about fifteen minutes, a detective from NOPD called
me to their credit in which I wasn't expecting, and
he was trying to set up a time for me
to come in and hand over my phone so they
could do some forensic analysis on it.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So we did that.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
What was the timeframe in which you had your phone in?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Just a few days? Yeah, like two or three at
the most.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
And then the police told you specifically that that phone
was no longer his.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, and then I wanted to verify that, and I did.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Did he define it like a it stopped being his
two days after those texts or.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
They didn't get into specifics on that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Apparently it's one of those like internet numbers where you could, like,
you know, get rid of quickly or something like that
and request a new one and it just gets a
sign to somebody else who's wanting a new one or something.
But I know that whatever he was using, it allowed
him to get rid of the number and move on
and have that number be.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
A sign of someone else, regardless of who owns the
phone number. Now Jay believes what he believes. He's learned
even more about the case since that text conversation, and
over time he's only become more troubled by everything. But
since we are unable to verify that Justin still used
that phone number at that time without supporting evidence, there's
(12:31):
also a real possibility that this was just simply another
person Jay was texting with. There's no real way to know.
What I can say is that if this was in
fact a different person, it does seem striking to Todd
and I that there were a lot of parallels between
the text exchange and what we do know about Jessica
(12:52):
and the circumstances surrounding her death. The fact that NPD
took these texts and investigated them seems to show they
took this exchange seriously. But I want to be very
clear and remind everyone that no charges of any kind
have been brought against Justin in relation to Jessica's death.
(13:13):
After ending our conversation with Jay, I'm left with so
many questions, and it feels more important now than ever
before to try and make contact with Justin myself to
see if he may have any insight into all of this,
some kind of explanation to this conversation and all the
other things that are left unanswered. We figure there's no
(13:36):
better option than to go straight to Justin's front door.
I make my way up to the front door while
Todd waits in the car. After a few knocks, the
door opens. It's not who I expected. Hi is justin home. No,
(13:57):
he is not doing know when who might be back.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I haven't heard from him for a week.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
A week, I'm greeted by an older Asian man who's
tall but hunched over in the doorway. He's shirtless and
appears to have just woken up. The door is kept cracked,
but I can see a glimpse of the inside. It's
dark and still on the other side. It's not clear
(14:23):
whether Justin's daughter Grace or his father justin senr or home.
Do you know where he might be?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
He's probably he's on a job site right now, so
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
In New Orleans no, Oh, okay, Oh, he's out of town. Okay, okay,
I remember that Laura, Justin and Jessica's neighbor who we
heard from previously mentioned that a man moved in sometime
after Jessica's death. Laura believes the man's name is Bart.
Are you Bart? By chance? Would you actually? I'm I'm
(15:00):
a journalist. I'm working on a story about Yes, I'm
telling you, I'm a journalist. My name's Jessica Nole and
I'm working on a story about Jessica. And I had
just heard that you had that he had a roommate
named Bart. That was all did you know, Jessica?
Speaker 5 (15:18):
You know, well, I came I met chessman after sit maskaway.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Oh okay, okay, but.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
You're totally you know the people in this neighborhood. I
will tell you pluck me and then you're publicly.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Fuck these people.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Why what's going on?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay, same reason you know my name?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
After Bart slams the door, I leave my business card
on the mailbox and then return to the car to
update Todd on the encounter. Let's move along for a minute. Okay,
do you hear that? With no luck on our door, knock,
Todd and I takes some time to strategize and make
the decision to head back to the hotel and try
(16:06):
reaching Justin by other means.
Speaker 6 (16:09):
For Colin has been forwarded to voicemail.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Todd first dials the number for what we believe is
Justin's landline, and after several unanswered calls, someone finally answers,
this time it's not Bart, and it's not Justin, but
rather Justin SR. Unfortunately, he seems to have trouble hearing,
making the conversation difficult.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Justin Hello, Hello, Justin? Hello?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Hello? Can you hear me? Go ahead?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Is this Justin Senior?
Speaker 7 (16:44):
Yeah? Hi?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
How are you doing today? Well? Hey, my name is
Todd Macomas, and I wanted to see if I could
talk to you for a second, I'm trying to find Justin.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Do you know where he's at?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Where is he?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
I'm trying to find Justin, trying to get a hold
of him. Do you know where he is or how
I can get a hold of him.
Speaker 8 (17:10):
I assume he's at work.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Oh, he's at work. Does he work here?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Local?
Speaker 7 (17:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Oh, you don't know what kind of works he do?
Is he new construction? I?
Speaker 8 (17:22):
No, No.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
When was the last time you saw Justin?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Has it been a while?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Like four days?
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Five days?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Know?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
A long time? Short time? Hello?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
He hung up?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So no luck via phone either. Back to square one.
Over several late night caffeine field conversations in our French
Quarter hotel room. We remember a name that Justin mentioned before.
It was in the bodycam audio we listened to a
while back.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
A good friend of mine, a prominent lawyer here. I
called him and I was like, Ralph Whalen is his
last name?
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Like Ralph?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
He goes, I did remember what a reasonable person would believe.
I'm like, okay, you know what's not reasonable this?
Speaker 7 (18:12):
There's nothing reasonable about this.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Maybe Ralph will know where we can find Justin, so
we look him up Ralph Whalen is apparently a prominent
white collar criminal defense and personal injury attorney in New Orleans.
He's been practicing law since nineteen seventy one. We thought
maybe Justin would be open to a sit down if
his attorney friend was present. So Todd makes a call
(18:39):
to Ralph.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Hi, Ralph, my name is Todd Mcomas. I'm calling about
an individual that you may or may not be representing.
His name is Justin Derning. Yeah, yeah, he's retained your services. Yeah, okay,
are you generally retained or are you retaining him for
a specific matter.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, he's a friend, and I mean I can't even.
Speaker 9 (19:06):
Tell you that I'm specifically retained or anything.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
He's a friend of mine.
Speaker 7 (19:10):
So, oh, okay, who are you with.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
I'm a retired detective with the Indiana State Police.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And Todd explains to Ralph that we were working on
a story regarding Jessica that we would really like to
talk to Justin if he'd be open to it. Unfortunately,
Ralph wasn't able to answer our questions, but he told
us he would pass along our information to Justin and
said we could follow up with him via email. So
after their conversation ended. I sent an email to Ralph,
(19:42):
but I have yet to receive a response. As it stands,
Justin is mia. After unsuccessfully trying Justin multiple times by
various means, we tried to think outside the box. If
we couldn't speak with him directly to get our questions answered,
maybe his family could give us some insight. We spoke
(20:05):
to several members of his extended family, and while it
helped provide some context to his family's history and roots
in the area, it didn't get us any closer to
learning what he may have known about the days around
Jessica's death and disappearance. The family feels terrible about Jessica
and how her family is still left looking for justice.
(20:27):
While they may not have been close to her, they
still feel a connection. After all, she was Justin's wife.
If you remember, we've previously mentioned Justin's second wife, Lauren,
who he was married to when he first met Jessica. Unfortunately,
Lauren was not willing to talk to us for the podcast,
but someone who was willing to speak with us was
(20:49):
his other ex Dolores Wenzel Lacasio, who is Grace's mom.
So I reached out to her, not really knowing what
to expect, but I was surprised to find that not
only was she open to talking with us, she was
very candid about their life together. Dolores doesn't shy away
(21:11):
from the fact that over the years she has had
some issues in her life stemming from addiction, and that
brings us to the beginning of her and Justin's story.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
I was thirty two at the time, and I was
in my first marriage, and I'll just be completely brutally honest,
which is that I had an overdose that I had
on purpose, trying to kill myself. Subsequently, I told the
doctor that I needed help with getting off of medication,
(21:44):
and so they sent me outpatient day program from eight
in the morning to four in the afternoon, kind of
like a school for etics. That's where Justin and I met.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Although she admits to battling with addiction, then Delores can
vividly recount her life by Justin's side. After living together
in Louisiana for some time, the couple moved to Arizona,
and it was while they were living out west that
she found out she was pregnant with Grace.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
I took a pregnancy test and I was in the bathroom.
He's like, well, what the fuck does it say? And
I'm like, he broke the door down in Arizona. He's like, mother, whatever,
And he took the test and it's like ping ping, ping, ping, ping,
off of all the sides of the freaking wall. And
he punched me right there, like congratulations.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
She vividly remembers the look in his eyes that night
in the bathroom and she was holding the pregnancy test.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
The eyes go black and you're looking right through them.
Speaker 7 (22:53):
It's like their eyes are full of dust.
Speaker 9 (22:56):
There's no soul.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
But when you look at him, they don't see you.
You're looking or they're looking right through you, and it
is horrific.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Delores describes a very turbulent relationship with Justin. But this
is not the first time we've heard accusations like this
made against Justin. We heard similar comments in regards to
Justin's second marriage to Lauren. Again. We had reached out
to Lauren directly, hoping she'd be open to sharing her story,
but she explained she did not want to participate, and
(23:32):
I can understand the hesitation. But we were able to
obtain a copy of a petition that Lauren filed for
domestic abuse protection order with the Justice Court of Golfport, Mississippi.
We requested a copy of that restraining order from the
Golfport Police Department, but there was no order of protection
on file. However, in her sworn statement in that petition
(23:55):
dated August third, twenty eleven, Lauren stated that on July twelfth,
twenty eleven, Justin attacked and choked her inside their home.
She checked a box on that petition that states petitioner
submits there exist immediate and present danger of abuse. She
also checked the box that states that a divorce is pending.
(24:18):
The Gulfport Police were unable to locate any record of
this domestic abuse protective order, which could simply mean that
the request was not granted by the court and therefore
no order was given to the police, or the order
may have been granted but has since expired. In some cases,
police departments purge records after a few years, depending on
(24:41):
what they are. Either way, no record was on file
with the police, but they did send us a copy
of a police report from May twenty six, two thousand nine,
in which Justin was arrested for the offense unlawful for
convicted felon to possess any firearms, which followed a felony
(25:02):
conviction for prescription fraud in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana. Further jail
records show that on August sixteenth, twenty eleven, Justin was
arrested and charged in Harrison County, Mississippi, on a domestic
violence charge. We have requested that report. While we're on
the topic of records, there was one item that comes
(25:24):
up many times in conversations about justin his military record.
If Justin had, in fact served in the military, I
wanted to be able to confirm this important chapter in
his life, so we made public records requests through multiple
veteran and military agencies, including the Department of Justice and
(25:45):
the National Archives Personnel records. Based on the information we
provided in those requests, there were no military records of
any branch of service that could be verified for Justin
Derning Junior. As we continue our conversation with Dolores, she
(26:10):
tells us that after the incident in the bathroom, she
and Justin's relationship began to sour, but eventually the couple
moved back to Louisiana.
Speaker 9 (26:20):
When we came back from Arizona. That was the end
of our relationship.
Speaker 7 (26:25):
You know, when somebody's sitting right next to you, but
for all purposes, they could be on another planet. He
was there physically, but he had gone.
Speaker 9 (26:34):
He was gone.
Speaker 7 (26:36):
I call him a narcissist because he fits just the profile,
not because I'm like this mean angry ex Yes, I'm
angry over a lot of things, but is he wanted something.
He was being so nice and he picked me up
and he brought me over to see Grace and not thinking.
I didn't think it was going to be the last time.
(26:57):
And she was beautiful, but I could already see the
distances coming. She didn't recognize me, you know, that short
of a time.
Speaker 9 (27:05):
And then I held her and she smiled, and then
guess who drives up.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It's Justin's mom.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
What they wanted was a long form my birth certificate
because they wanted to get childcare benefits or money. And
then they wanted me to sign a paper for temporary
custody and I said, not on your life. He said, oh, well,
f you, because guess what when the cops arrested you,
(27:36):
you signed over custody. I said, Justin, oh, that's a
good one. Put that one in the books. I said, please,
don't make you sign over custody. You're full of shit,
and then he was mad, that'll be the last time
you ever seen me here this kid. Yeah, well you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's forward to twenty nineteen. When Dolores heard about Jessica's death,
she went straight to the ENOPD to help in any
way she could. Having had a close relationship to Jessica's husband,
she figured she could give them some insight, But according
to Dolores, talking to the NOPD was a pretty fruitless effort.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
He was very dismissive and he said, look, we've already
solved it. I said, so basically, I'll just say it.
You're thinking, what Junkie Jr. Goes to cop.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Dope and deal goes wrong and guy breaks her neck
and leaves her and she falls without her shoe in
the womb position.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
He goes, you're being sarcastic. I said, of course, absolutely, because.
Speaker 9 (28:44):
That's a ridiculous theory.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
I said, the truth of the matter is this is
someone's daughter, okay, and this is bullshit.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
I don't care that you think you have to prioritize
because there's five sillion murders. This woman is important.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
She's a sister, she is a daughter, she was a wife,
and she was a stepmother to my child. They need
to take this shit into account.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
As you can hear in her voice, the weight of
her past still spills over into her present, despite being
in a much better place in life these days, but
everything she's experienced has helped her gain a newfound perspective.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
The first narrative you hear, unfortunately, is usually the one
you believe. It's all about perception because everyone has a
different perception of the truth. Think about it. Because everyone
has a reason and everyone has a motive.
Speaker 9 (29:45):
Justice will be sirved. Karma needs to happen, maybe not
in my life, but somebody's time.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
No matter how obvious it all seems to Dolores, this
case remains undetermined and is in dire need of some answers.
It still feels like the one person in this who
could possibly hold some answers is Justin. But as for
our efforts to find Justin while in New Orleans, door knocks,
(30:15):
phone calls, emails, and text messages, well, unfortunately, for now
they're all a bust. One of the reasons we had
hoped to speak to Justin was simply to get his story.
But another reason we wished to speak with him was
because at this point, more than five hundred days since
(30:35):
Jessica's death, he'd yet to claim her remains from the corner,
and her family was desperate to have at least that.
Even Jay Royce, the neighbor we spoke to at the
beginning of this episode, has an opinion when it comes
to this topic.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Her poor family was one enclosure and just wanting, you know,
to be able to have a ceremony of some sorts.
You know, some one dies, you have a funeral.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
He had the sole decision power on allowing her to
stay in the morgue.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Why would you do that?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Even if he couldn't afford a funeral, then might not
just release it to the family so they.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Could do it. It made no sense.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Again, we haven't been able to speak with Justin about
this or about anything. Like I said, he's mia at
this time, but in an interesting turn of events, his
absence might just lead to a bit of resolution. Out
of the blue, Jessica's sister, Audrey, receives a phone call
(31:44):
not from Justin, but from the coroner's office.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
The coroner called me and asked me if my name
was Audrey Schmidt and I said yes, And I said,
can we have Jessica? He said, well, he goes, I'm
going to have to make it legal and send justin
legal notices.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
I was like okay.
Speaker 8 (32:07):
I was like, well, can you give me a timeline?
He said, I cannot give you a timeline.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
I felt like, oh my god, finally they're releastener to us.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV
in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me
Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas,
with additional production by Whitney Bow. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
(33:03):
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat kid Glider
of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast
or are looking to start one, check us out at
(33:26):
resonate Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score
is by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow
Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod.
Show notes as well as bonus content can be found
(33:48):
on our website undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed
this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review.
Your feedback is greatly apreciate it. And finally, if you
have any information about this case, call crime Stoppers at
one eight seven seven nine zero three seven eight sixty
(34:12):
seven
Hey, listeners Jessica here, be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out
Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not
(00:45):
be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. October
twenty twenty, the same month, Jessica's neighbor Laura sees authority
swabbing of futon and head board near the driveway of
the Journeys residence. A heated text message exchange starts between
(01:06):
a man from the Lakeview neighborhood and another individual who
he believes to be a fellow neighbor.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I guess if you ask like my family of friends,
they would probably be like I'm they wouldn't be surprised.
I'm curious by nature and these types of things, and
when it happens so close to your home, it tugs
on you a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
It started pretty simple, like I said, just a neighbor
texting someone he believed to be another neighbor. But what
it led to is well astounding, and now for the
first time, this neighbor is ready to share his story.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I felt like I had, I guess, a responsibility or
a duty to tell my side and say what happened,
And you know how everything went to.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
In our last episode, we learned how Jessica's sister Audrey
formed her own village of sorts within the Lakeview neighborhood,
with many Lakeview residents stepping up and helping in this
investigation in various ways. But as I had mentioned, there's
one other neighbor we spoke with who may arguably hold
(02:46):
the biggest piece of evidence in this case that we
know of, So we headed over to his Lakeview home
to sit down and hear his story. He asked to
go by a pseudonym for this podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
My name is Jay Royce. I live in the neighborhood
where Jessica Easterly was found.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Jay's involvement in this case started just like his neighbor Laura's,
when he spotted a crime stoppers flyer on a telephone
pole near his home.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I came across the sign one day on my way
home from work and googled her name because I hadn't
heard of the case or her and that kind of
opened a Pandora's box of things online with podcasts and
websites and news stories, and I started just kind of
(03:37):
doing a little more research and digging into.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
It as a concern. Neighbor Jay quickly turned into an
Internet sleuth of sorts.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I was apparently living here at the time of it happening,
and no one that I know had heard of it,
so it kind of pequed my curiosity a little bit
that a body.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Was found not far from my house. It's a little disturbing.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I mean, there's no way anyone can feel good about that,
especially not knowing officially what happened to her. But it's
just an unsettling feeling.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
He nervously takes a sip of his bourbon on the
rocks as we continue our conversation. Holding his low ball glass.
He tells us about Lakeview.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, it's a good neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I mean, we have your petty theft stuff where people
break into cars here and there, but something like that
is definitely out of the ordinary. I mean, it was
kind of a running thing where it was if you
had your car broken into or something to report that,
don't hold your breath while waiting for the police to
(04:49):
come and check on it, because they may not even
show up. And that's happened multiple times from what I've heard.
Not saying that they're bad people or anything like that,
but I think they're probably understaffed and overwhelmed and have.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It was Jay's lack of faith in the NPD that
led him to continue his online search in an attempt
to learn more about Jessica's case. Of course, in his research,
he learned of her husband, Justin. He also learned that
Justin lived in the neighborhood. So Jay opened up his
next door app, a neighborhood forum of sorts, and that's
(05:27):
when he spotted Justin.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
We had just googled his name just to see who
he was, and I noticed on one of these apps,
on like a neighborhood app. It was right around the
time of her death, where he starts posting on this
neighborhood app, just trying to be friendly with people and saying, oh, yeah,
(05:51):
I know about this, know about that. If you need
any help, call me, and he would post his number
and nobody's posting their number ever, And he did that
multiple times, and then all of a sudden had stopped,
like right around the time where it was confirmed that
it was her.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I literally just stopped. He had never posted again.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Jay was upset about everything he'd read on Jessica's case,
and since Justin had posted his phone number in the
next door app, Jay decided to text him, but since
he was a stranger to Justin, he didn't really expect
a conversation to form, but it did. While the number
J texted is the same number Justin gave to police
(06:35):
when Jessica went missing, and the same number her loved
ones had saved as Justin in their phones, it's important
to note that we have no way of verifying whether
or not Justin was in possession of the phone number
at the time of these text messages. Jay shared the
original text exchanges with us, and we're going to read
(06:56):
the ones we can and have Jay fill in the gaps.
I'll have Todd voice Jay Royce's text, and I'll voice
the other individual's text. It started on September twenty, twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Hey, justin how.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
You've been.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Great, struggling a bit.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Too bad?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Better than being in the sandbox though, huh.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
True? My dog died.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And I thought that was kind of funny because I
did see his dog being walked in the neighborhood the
day before, and I've seen his dog walked subsequently after
that as well.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I didn't text him anymore at that moment.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
While the initial text exchange ended at this point, that
wasn't the end of their communication. To Jay's surprise, things
would continue and become much more personal. For legal reasons,
we can only read certain excerpts of the next portion.
The texting commenced again on October fifteenth.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Thought your dog was dead? You aren't very sealer, silence, mortalous,
sleep tight?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
What the fuck you lay mass bitch?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Lol?
Speaker 4 (08:20):
You can't even spell fuck you bitch.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
As the conversation starts to spiral, Jay makes strong accusations.
The unknown individual replies to Jay's accusations, saying, quote, she
was cheating. At this point, you may be thinking, as
I am, why would this other individual be so open
and candid with a total stranger doesn't make sense. Well,
(08:50):
it quickly becomes evident that this person was under the
impression that Jay was someone they knew very well, saying, quote,
you were my best friend, and.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He somehow thought I was his best friend when we
were texting, never questioned who I was. So when I
realized that he thought I was somebody else, I decided
to press him a little bit, went adam hard to
get him to be a little defensive. He ended up
saying that you know, I didn't kill her.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
She slip and fell. Where in the bathroom?
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Then how'd she get to the train tracks?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Bro, I panicked and drove there.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
You need to come clean and let the family have peace.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Why if I'm an incident? We believe the other individual's
final message was intended to be why if I'm innocent?
This was the last text exchanged between Jay and the
other unknown person.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So that's when we knew that there was that he
probably is not. He's got a screw loose. I wouldn't
be surprised if he was high on something in the
midst of this, because apparently within a couple of days
he deleted this number and it was no longer his.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
It was.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
It belonged to someone else.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Take me there. How do you know that?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Well?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I know that for a couple of reasons. I know
a police officer told me it was someone else's number
at that point, and then to verify that, we texted
the guy and said, you know who is this?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
A few days later, Jay calls the number.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
We called him and he said this isn't him, and
I said, prove you aren't him and call me. So
then he called and I could tell by his voice
it wasn't him, but it was a kid, definitely wasn't
a man.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
He's like, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Jay reached out to Audrey and Maria and shared screenshots
of the text conversation.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
She was like, holy shit.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
And within about fifteen minutes, a detective from NOPD called
me to their credit in which I wasn't expecting, and
he was trying to set up a time for me
to come in and hand over my phone so they
could do some forensic analysis on it.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So we did that.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
What was the timeframe in which you had your phone in?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Just a few days? Yeah, like two or three at
the most.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
And then the police told you specifically that that phone
was no longer his.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, and then I wanted to verify that, and I did.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Did he define it like a it stopped being his
two days after those texts or.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
They didn't get into specifics on that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Apparently it's one of those like internet numbers where you could, like,
you know, get rid of quickly or something like that
and request a new one and it just gets a
sign to somebody else who's wanting a new one or something.
But I know that whatever he was using, it allowed
him to get rid of the number and move on
and have that number be.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
A sign of someone else, regardless of who owns the
phone number. Now Jay believes what he believes. He's learned
even more about the case since that text conversation, and
over time he's only become more troubled by everything. But
since we are unable to verify that Justin still used
that phone number at that time without supporting evidence, there's
(12:31):
also a real possibility that this was just simply another
person Jay was texting with. There's no real way to know.
What I can say is that if this was in
fact a different person, it does seem striking to Todd
and I that there were a lot of parallels between
the text exchange and what we do know about Jessica
(12:52):
and the circumstances surrounding her death. The fact that NPD
took these texts and investigated them seems to show they
took this exchange seriously. But I want to be very
clear and remind everyone that no charges of any kind
have been brought against Justin in relation to Jessica's death.
(13:13):
After ending our conversation with Jay, I'm left with so
many questions, and it feels more important now than ever
before to try and make contact with Justin myself to
see if he may have any insight into all of this,
some kind of explanation to this conversation and all the
other things that are left unanswered. We figure there's no
(13:36):
better option than to go straight to Justin's front door.
I make my way up to the front door while
Todd waits in the car. After a few knocks, the
door opens. It's not who I expected. Hi is justin home. No,
(13:57):
he is not doing know when who might be back.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I haven't heard from him for a week.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
A week, I'm greeted by an older Asian man who's
tall but hunched over in the doorway. He's shirtless and
appears to have just woken up. The door is kept cracked,
but I can see a glimpse of the inside. It's
dark and still on the other side. It's not clear
(14:23):
whether Justin's daughter Grace or his father justin senr or home.
Do you know where he might be?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
He's probably he's on a job site right now, so
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
In New Orleans no, Oh, okay, Oh, he's out of town. Okay, okay,
I remember that Laura, Justin and Jessica's neighbor who we
heard from previously mentioned that a man moved in sometime
after Jessica's death. Laura believes the man's name is Bart.
Are you Bart? By chance? Would you actually? I'm I'm
(15:00):
a journalist. I'm working on a story about Yes, I'm
telling you, I'm a journalist. My name's Jessica Nole and
I'm working on a story about Jessica. And I had
just heard that you had that he had a roommate
named Bart. That was all did you know, Jessica?
Speaker 5 (15:18):
You know, well, I came I met chessman after sit maskaway.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Oh okay, okay, but.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
You're totally you know the people in this neighborhood. I
will tell you pluck me and then you're publicly.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Fuck these people.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Why what's going on?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay, same reason you know my name?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
After Bart slams the door, I leave my business card
on the mailbox and then return to the car to
update Todd on the encounter. Let's move along for a minute. Okay,
do you hear that? With no luck on our door, knock,
Todd and I takes some time to strategize and make
the decision to head back to the hotel and try
(16:06):
reaching Justin by other means.
Speaker 6 (16:09):
For Colin has been forwarded to voicemail.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Todd first dials the number for what we believe is
Justin's landline, and after several unanswered calls, someone finally answers,
this time it's not Bart, and it's not Justin, but
rather Justin SR. Unfortunately, he seems to have trouble hearing,
making the conversation difficult.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Justin Hello, Hello, Justin? Hello?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Hello? Can you hear me? Go ahead?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Is this Justin Senior?
Speaker 7 (16:44):
Yeah? Hi?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
How are you doing today? Well? Hey, my name is
Todd Macomas, and I wanted to see if I could
talk to you for a second, I'm trying to find Justin.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Do you know where he's at?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Where is he?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
I'm trying to find Justin, trying to get a hold
of him. Do you know where he is or how
I can get a hold of him.
Speaker 8 (17:10):
I assume he's at work.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Oh, he's at work. Does he work here?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Local?
Speaker 7 (17:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Oh, you don't know what kind of works he do?
Is he new construction? I?
Speaker 8 (17:22):
No, No.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
When was the last time you saw Justin?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Has it been a while?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Like four days?
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Five days?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Know?
Speaker 4 (17:34):
A long time? Short time? Hello?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
He hung up?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So no luck via phone either. Back to square one.
Over several late night caffeine field conversations in our French
Quarter hotel room. We remember a name that Justin mentioned before.
It was in the bodycam audio we listened to a
while back.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
A good friend of mine, a prominent lawyer here. I
called him and I was like, Ralph Whalen is his
last name?
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Like Ralph?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
He goes, I did remember what a reasonable person would believe.
I'm like, okay, you know what's not reasonable this?
Speaker 7 (18:12):
There's nothing reasonable about this.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Maybe Ralph will know where we can find Justin, so
we look him up Ralph Whalen is apparently a prominent
white collar criminal defense and personal injury attorney in New Orleans.
He's been practicing law since nineteen seventy one. We thought
maybe Justin would be open to a sit down if
his attorney friend was present. So Todd makes a call
(18:39):
to Ralph.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Hi, Ralph, my name is Todd Mcomas. I'm calling about
an individual that you may or may not be representing.
His name is Justin Derning. Yeah, yeah, he's retained your services. Yeah, okay,
are you generally retained or are you retaining him for
a specific matter.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, he's a friend, and I mean I can't even.
Speaker 9 (19:06):
Tell you that I'm specifically retained or anything.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
He's a friend of mine.
Speaker 7 (19:10):
So, oh, okay, who are you with.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
I'm a retired detective with the Indiana State Police.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And Todd explains to Ralph that we were working on
a story regarding Jessica that we would really like to
talk to Justin if he'd be open to it. Unfortunately,
Ralph wasn't able to answer our questions, but he told
us he would pass along our information to Justin and
said we could follow up with him via email. So
after their conversation ended. I sent an email to Ralph,
(19:42):
but I have yet to receive a response. As it stands,
Justin is mia. After unsuccessfully trying Justin multiple times by
various means, we tried to think outside the box. If
we couldn't speak with him directly to get our questions answered,
maybe his family could give us some insight. We spoke
(20:05):
to several members of his extended family, and while it
helped provide some context to his family's history and roots
in the area, it didn't get us any closer to
learning what he may have known about the days around
Jessica's death and disappearance. The family feels terrible about Jessica
and how her family is still left looking for justice.
(20:27):
While they may not have been close to her, they
still feel a connection. After all, she was Justin's wife.
If you remember, we've previously mentioned Justin's second wife, Lauren,
who he was married to when he first met Jessica. Unfortunately,
Lauren was not willing to talk to us for the podcast,
but someone who was willing to speak with us was
(20:49):
his other ex Dolores Wenzel Lacasio, who is Grace's mom.
So I reached out to her, not really knowing what
to expect, but I was surprised to find that not
only was she open to talking with us, she was
very candid about their life together. Dolores doesn't shy away
(21:11):
from the fact that over the years she has had
some issues in her life stemming from addiction, and that
brings us to the beginning of her and Justin's story.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
I was thirty two at the time, and I was
in my first marriage, and I'll just be completely brutally honest,
which is that I had an overdose that I had
on purpose, trying to kill myself. Subsequently, I told the
doctor that I needed help with getting off of medication,
(21:44):
and so they sent me outpatient day program from eight
in the morning to four in the afternoon, kind of
like a school for etics. That's where Justin and I met.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Although she admits to battling with addiction, then Delores can
vividly recount her life by Justin's side. After living together
in Louisiana for some time, the couple moved to Arizona,
and it was while they were living out west that
she found out she was pregnant with Grace.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
I took a pregnancy test and I was in the bathroom.
He's like, well, what the fuck does it say? And
I'm like, he broke the door down in Arizona. He's like, mother, whatever,
And he took the test and it's like ping ping, ping, ping, ping,
off of all the sides of the freaking wall. And
he punched me right there, like congratulations.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
She vividly remembers the look in his eyes that night
in the bathroom and she was holding the pregnancy test.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
The eyes go black and you're looking right through them.
Speaker 7 (22:53):
It's like their eyes are full of dust.
Speaker 9 (22:56):
There's no soul.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
But when you look at him, they don't see you.
You're looking or they're looking right through you, and it
is horrific.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Delores describes a very turbulent relationship with Justin. But this
is not the first time we've heard accusations like this
made against Justin. We heard similar comments in regards to
Justin's second marriage to Lauren. Again. We had reached out
to Lauren directly, hoping she'd be open to sharing her story,
but she explained she did not want to participate, and
(23:32):
I can understand the hesitation. But we were able to
obtain a copy of a petition that Lauren filed for
domestic abuse protection order with the Justice Court of Golfport, Mississippi.
We requested a copy of that restraining order from the
Golfport Police Department, but there was no order of protection
on file. However, in her sworn statement in that petition
(23:55):
dated August third, twenty eleven, Lauren stated that on July twelfth,
twenty eleven, Justin attacked and choked her inside their home.
She checked a box on that petition that states petitioner
submits there exist immediate and present danger of abuse. She
also checked the box that states that a divorce is pending.
(24:18):
The Gulfport Police were unable to locate any record of
this domestic abuse protective order, which could simply mean that
the request was not granted by the court and therefore
no order was given to the police, or the order
may have been granted but has since expired. In some cases,
police departments purge records after a few years, depending on
(24:41):
what they are. Either way, no record was on file
with the police, but they did send us a copy
of a police report from May twenty six, two thousand nine,
in which Justin was arrested for the offense unlawful for
convicted felon to possess any firearms, which followed a felony
(25:02):
conviction for prescription fraud in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana. Further jail
records show that on August sixteenth, twenty eleven, Justin was
arrested and charged in Harrison County, Mississippi, on a domestic
violence charge. We have requested that report. While we're on
the topic of records, there was one item that comes
(25:24):
up many times in conversations about justin his military record.
If Justin had, in fact served in the military, I
wanted to be able to confirm this important chapter in
his life, so we made public records requests through multiple
veteran and military agencies, including the Department of Justice and
(25:45):
the National Archives Personnel records. Based on the information we
provided in those requests, there were no military records of
any branch of service that could be verified for Justin
Derning Junior. As we continue our conversation with Dolores, she
(26:10):
tells us that after the incident in the bathroom, she
and Justin's relationship began to sour, but eventually the couple
moved back to Louisiana.
Speaker 9 (26:20):
When we came back from Arizona. That was the end
of our relationship.
Speaker 7 (26:25):
You know, when somebody's sitting right next to you, but
for all purposes, they could be on another planet. He
was there physically, but he had gone.
Speaker 9 (26:34):
He was gone.
Speaker 7 (26:36):
I call him a narcissist because he fits just the profile,
not because I'm like this mean angry ex Yes, I'm
angry over a lot of things, but is he wanted something.
He was being so nice and he picked me up
and he brought me over to see Grace and not thinking.
I didn't think it was going to be the last time.
(26:57):
And she was beautiful, but I could already see the
distances coming. She didn't recognize me, you know, that short
of a time.
Speaker 9 (27:05):
And then I held her and she smiled, and then
guess who drives up.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It's Justin's mom.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
What they wanted was a long form my birth certificate
because they wanted to get childcare benefits or money. And
then they wanted me to sign a paper for temporary
custody and I said, not on your life. He said, oh, well,
f you, because guess what when the cops arrested you,
(27:36):
you signed over custody. I said, Justin, oh, that's a
good one. Put that one in the books. I said, please,
don't make you sign over custody. You're full of shit,
and then he was mad, that'll be the last time
you ever seen me here this kid. Yeah, well you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's forward to twenty nineteen. When Dolores heard about Jessica's death,
she went straight to the ENOPD to help in any
way she could. Having had a close relationship to Jessica's husband,
she figured she could give them some insight, But according
to Dolores, talking to the NOPD was a pretty fruitless effort.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
He was very dismissive and he said, look, we've already
solved it. I said, so basically, I'll just say it.
You're thinking, what Junkie Jr. Goes to cop.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Dope and deal goes wrong and guy breaks her neck
and leaves her and she falls without her shoe in
the womb position.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
He goes, you're being sarcastic. I said, of course, absolutely, because.
Speaker 9 (28:44):
That's a ridiculous theory.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
I said, the truth of the matter is this is
someone's daughter, okay, and this is bullshit.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
I don't care that you think you have to prioritize
because there's five sillion murders. This woman is important.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
She's a sister, she is a daughter, she was a wife,
and she was a stepmother to my child. They need
to take this shit into account.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
As you can hear in her voice, the weight of
her past still spills over into her present, despite being
in a much better place in life these days, but
everything she's experienced has helped her gain a newfound perspective.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
The first narrative you hear, unfortunately, is usually the one
you believe. It's all about perception because everyone has a
different perception of the truth. Think about it. Because everyone
has a reason and everyone has a motive.
Speaker 9 (29:45):
Justice will be sirved. Karma needs to happen, maybe not
in my life, but somebody's time.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
No matter how obvious it all seems to Dolores, this
case remains undetermined and is in dire need of some answers.
It still feels like the one person in this who
could possibly hold some answers is Justin. But as for
our efforts to find Justin while in New Orleans, door knocks,
(30:15):
phone calls, emails, and text messages, well, unfortunately, for now
they're all a bust. One of the reasons we had
hoped to speak to Justin was simply to get his story.
But another reason we wished to speak with him was
because at this point, more than five hundred days since
(30:35):
Jessica's death, he'd yet to claim her remains from the corner,
and her family was desperate to have at least that.
Even Jay Royce, the neighbor we spoke to at the
beginning of this episode, has an opinion when it comes
to this topic.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Her poor family was one enclosure and just wanting, you know,
to be able to have a ceremony of some sorts.
You know, some one dies, you have a funeral.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
He had the sole decision power on allowing her to
stay in the morgue.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Why would you do that?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Even if he couldn't afford a funeral, then might not
just release it to the family so they.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Could do it. It made no sense.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Again, we haven't been able to speak with Justin about
this or about anything. Like I said, he's mia at
this time, but in an interesting turn of events, his
absence might just lead to a bit of resolution. Out
of the blue, Jessica's sister, Audrey, receives a phone call
(31:44):
not from Justin, but from the coroner's office.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
The coroner called me and asked me if my name
was Audrey Schmidt and I said yes, And I said,
can we have Jessica? He said, well, he goes, I'm
going to have to make it legal and send justin
legal notices.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
I was like okay.
Speaker 8 (32:07):
I was like, well, can you give me a timeline?
He said, I cannot give you a timeline.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
I felt like, oh my god, finally they're releastener to us.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV
in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me
Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas,
with additional production by Whitney Bow. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
(33:03):
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat kid Glider
of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast
or are looking to start one, check us out at
(33:26):
resonate Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score
is by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow
Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod.
Show notes as well as bonus content can be found
(33:48):
on our website undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed
this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review.
Your feedback is greatly apreciate it. And finally, if you
have any information about this case, call crime Stoppers at
one eight seven seven nine zero three seven eight sixty
(34:12):
seven
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