January 3, 2023 • 29 mins
Jessica and Justin had a secret life. And a few months before Jessica disappeared, the couple has a rendezvous in their home with another couple from Florida. But it quickly goes south.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out
Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not
(00:45):
be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
She told me about it to some degree before they
came to stay in my home. I never really investigated it.
I never really asked her more about it. He is
a very pushy person. Around a person like that, you
hesitate to wait into any conversation, much less something you're
not interested in. I think she was under a lot
(01:14):
of pressure to bring money in and to provide, but
at the same time not allowed to leave, because I
think it's part of what held her in place after
she was ready to leave. Is she had this dirty secret.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We all have our secrets, right, the things that only
select few know about, or that we keep tucked away
for no one to ever see or know. Most of
us are fortunate enough to be in control of our secrets,
our narrative. For a long time. That's what Jessica did.
(02:16):
She had her secrets, and for various reasons, she kept
them to herself. But near the end of her life
she started to open up a little, namely with Maria,
who first heard about Jessica and Justin's not so side
hustle while they were staying at her home for Thanksgiving
in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
When she first started telling me about it, I just
thought they were bored. I thought they were a couple
in their forties. Maybe the spark was gone. They spend
too much time together, so maybe they were just trying
to spice things up. I was like, you know, whatever,
do you if that's entertaining to you. I didn't know
that it was really for the income the way I
think it turned out to be, so, even when they
(03:01):
were in my home, I never knew their stage names.
I don't know if you call it a stage name online.
They're online names. I never knew their alter egos, and
at one point she was sitting on my couch and
she was like, see, look these people are tipping. And
she was like looking at some app Apparently it's very
user friendly, and there were like little coins floating across
(03:23):
the screen the same way people do likes or hearts
or whatever when somebody's like doing a live stream on Facebook.
So these little coins are floating across the screen, and
she was like, see he's tipping them. I was like, okay, well,
how much is that little tip worth? She was like, oh,
that's like five cents. I remember us joking back and forth,
(03:43):
and I was like, I wonder if I could just
put my feet on there, like while I'm doing my files,
if some weirdo wants to look at my feet and
send me some money, Like I could be okay with that,
Like that's not too risky and my face would never
be involved. I was like, I wonder if somebody wants
to pay me for my feet, But I mean I
want to be a weirdo about my feet, like knock
yourself out, here's my vemo. Yeah, but the conversation never
(04:06):
really got any further than that. This really I'm not
trying to put my naughty bits on the internet in
perpetuity for my grandkids to look up like no Nana.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
While Maria was able to keep it all lighthearted, even
joking about it, Learning that Jessica was performing sex shows
online for money was a pretty startling peak into her
life with Justin, and it was certainly a new revelation
to her family. But Maria thinks it was more about control.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think that she would have done anything that he
wanted her to do because she really just wanted to
make him happy. I'm not going to completely alleviate her
of all responsibility, because you know, she was an adult,
so it's possible that she wanted to experiment with the
sexual stuff that they were doing online, as possible that
she wanted to experiment with drugs. But that was not
(05:00):
at all the Jessica that I knew growing up. The
Jessica that I knew growing up was the sort of
girl that was comfortable wearing a strand of pearls and
an updue because we worked in the casino industry together,
when people would get into like salacious or scandalous situations,
she'd be like, we are Southern ladies, like you do
not do that, So it was a huge departure from
(05:23):
who I knew her to be. She was a shadow
of her former self.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
To friends and family, Jessica may have become somewhat of
a shadow of herself, but she was still Jessica, the
girl they'd known and loved for most of her life
well before the camming. But to a whole community online,
she was known as Vivian and her partner was Lance.
(05:58):
These were Jessica and Justina's camming names. So what exactly
is camming?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, it's different for everyone but me and my wife specifically.
We just go on camera and people will pay us
for our time. So if we're camming for an hour
for a specific person, then we request a specific dollar
amount per minute, and that's how we get paid. People
(06:29):
are viewing us on the screen. We have a camera
in front of us that's looked up to the computer
and it's live, so everything we do is live.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
This is Ken, well that's his camming name, alongside his wife, Barbie. Yeah,
Ken and Barbie.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I am Ken and my wife is Barbie.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And we met Justin and Jessica through the camming community.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
In fact, as far as we know, they are the
only camers to have ever met up with Vivian and
Lance inside their home and saw them together as a couple,
But it's an experience they regretted almost from the start.
More on that in just a minute. The young couple
(07:22):
got into camming after he lost his other online fortune.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I made a pretty hefty fortune on bitcoin when I
was in high school, and being young and having a
decent fortune, you don't really know how to spend it.
So me and my wife we dug ourselves in a
hole living in Miami. We needed something to keep us
going and keep us alive and off the streets, so
(07:48):
we chose to start camming, and it worked out really
well for us, so we just stuck with it ever since.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
We really enjoyed the job because we get to spend.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
All of our time together, one of us just having
to leave the house go to work and things like that.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
So it works for us.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So, you know, immediately a bunch of cam people started
reaching out to us, like, oh, Wow, you're going to
do so.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Good at this.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You're gonna you're gonna be able to retire by the
time you're thirty, blah blah blah, And you know, just
like trying to flatter us, trying to get close to us.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
And we thought that was normal. And it turns.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Out that for the most part, that a lot of
them were trying to use us because we were naive
to the canning community and how it works.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So people were trying to get us to.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Help them in different ways, and it just seemed to
us like everyone's out for themselves and trying to like
make their into the deal better.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Me and my wife, we kind of stay in our
own little bubble. We don't really talk to anyone else.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Kin says that while there is a darker side to
the camming community, he and Barbie stay away from that.
It's kind of how the community works. You only do
what you feel comfortable with.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I mean, every single person out there has a different
experience camming. One experience is not the same as another's.
Some people have really bad experiences camming, and some people
have really good experiences camming. There's definitely some bad stigma
(09:27):
about the sex industry, and you know, for what it's worth,
I'm sure a lot of it's true.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I'm not denying that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
But that's why we stick to camming, because we get
to create our own rules and boundaries. So if anyone
steps over those boundaries, we can put an end to
it by a click of a button. If we feel
offended or threatened in some way, then all we got
to do is hit the block button and they disappear.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
We do this together, and only together.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
We don't talk to any other cameras, we don't post
on so media really. Ever, we just realized that it's
best to stay in your own little bubble and not
try to get too far out there and meet too
many people, because so far, all the people that we've met,
they've ended in like really crazy experiences.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
One of those crazy experiences for Ken and Barbie was
meeting Vivian and Lance at their home in New Orleans.
When we sat down with Ken, he shared his personal
experience and opinions from that in person meeting, and from
here on out in this episode, we'll go back to
referring to them as Jessica and Justin.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
They were trying to get close to us early on
because they knew that we would be successful at this job,
and from the very beginning things turned out really well
for us. We didn't really have to worry about money
or anything like that, and they just kind of reached
out to us, and then they started to call more
(11:01):
and try to reach out to us more. They were
really really easy to get along with, mostly her Jessica.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
She was really easy to get along with.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
She just kind of reeled us in and gave us
someone to talk to that was in the industry.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
We were new to it.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
We didn't know anything. So if we had any kind
of questions, they would help us out with that, and
we just talked to them. I don't know, I'd say
maybe once.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Or twice a month she would call.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
As that went on, they started feeling closer to us
and whatnot. So I guess they felt comfortable asking us
for money here and there. They would ask us for
like one hundred bucks, and we didn't know what their
situation was. And I'm too nice sometimes if people need help,
(11:54):
I'm usually willing to help. So whenever they had asked
me for money, I just did it. I didn't think
anything of it. I knew that they had a daughter,
and I knew that they.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Probably weren't doing that well. I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Them telling us that they had a job, so camming
was how they were making money, and every single time
they cam they weren't really doing that well, that kind
of made us sad. So yeah, we would help every
now and then. And I don't regret it.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
It's whatever.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I just wish I would have known them better before
we really got involved with their lives.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
But their meetup wasn't really something they had planned. It
was just by happenstance. They'd driven to Pensacola, Florida to
meet with a friend of Barbie's, but the friend never showed.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
We were like, what the heck?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
We drove all the way down here, so what could
we do to make it a trip that's not wasted?
And we remember that Jessica and Justin they.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Lived in New Orleans and that was just a little
bit farther.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
So we called them up.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
And we asked them if it'd be cool if we
came down to hang out.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Before they even arrived at Jessica and Justin's house, they
see their first red flag.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
We were basically asking them if it was cool if
we come by, and that's whenever they started texting us.
And then they randomly texted us a pipe and I
didn't know if it was a crack pipe or a
met pipe. I don't know the difference. If there is
a difference or what. But they sent me a pipe
that looked like you smoke drugs out of it. And
(13:41):
when they did that, we were like, what is this.
I was like, you're joking. I Like, I asked them
if they were joking, and they're like they would send
back like an emoji, a lack emoji or an LOL
or something and be like, yeah, we're just messing with you.
We were skeptical, but then they said that they were
a joke, and we just took it for what it was.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Like, we thought that they were joking.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
If we were texting someone, we didn't know if it
was Justin or Justica. We had no idea, and I'm
pretty sure sometimes she would act like her whenever he
was texting us, Like sometimes we detext We're like, this
feels like it's Justin texting us right now. We didn't
think anything of that until we met them, and then
(14:25):
we saw how he was. It all happened so gradually,
it's like they just reeled us in.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
When Ken and Barbie pull into the driveway at their
Lakeview home, everything seems fine at.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
First, everything's cool.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
At first, he kind of looks like he's cracked out,
which we thought was weird at first, but then we
kind of just blew it off because we didn't want
to be mean.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Or we just didn't want to make a scene or
make them feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Justin's di me is something Ken remembers vividly.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
He looked like he was on some kind of drug
that was like speed, Like it was making him talk
really fast and like make really weird movements and stuff.
And we didn't know if that was just his personality
or if he was on drugs.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
We didn't know. He told us he took Adderall prescribed adderall,
so we didn't know if it was that either.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
But anyway, we came into this whole situation non judgmental.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
We just like, this is our first time meeting him.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
We just wanted to meet him, and we didn't want
to make a big deal out of it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Ken and Barbie quickly realize they're not the only other
ones in the house. Soon they'd meet Justin's daughter and
noticed that his elderly father was there too. Though they
never spoke.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
He was always in the other room with the lights off.
You could just see him the doorway.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
That's another reason why it was sketchy, Like he never
introduced himself to me. He never spoke a word to me.
Justin said the whole time, I could just ignore him,
don't talk to him. I just thought it was the
weirdest thing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
As the visit continues, their concerns for Jessica begin to fester.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
We were most scared for her.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
It's like, she's stuck here with these crazy people.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I just don't understand. I don't understand how she's at
that house.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Kin's growing impression of Justin kept signaling to him that
something was just off about this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
He tried to sell me a gun.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
He showed me a bunch of pictures on his phone
and he was like, I can get you one of these.
You just send me three thousand dollars cash and I'll
get you one. He's trying to make money. I don't
even know if he had as real guns or if
he's just showing people pictures on his phone trying to
make a quick dollar.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
They'd say that he used to be in the Marines
whenever he was showing me guns. That's where I thought
he had guns from, was being in the military. And
I didn't ask to see them because I didn't.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Care about him.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
He offered to buy me a gun or sell me
a gun, and I was like, I'm good, and he
just had a lot of sketchy games.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Pushing past the awkward hit chat and gun pedaling, the
two couples tried to make the most out of the
visit and do what they do cam, but that turned
out to be kind of a bust too.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
We planned to do a cam show did like a
big bathtub is kind of like a hot tub. It
was a work thing and it just wasn't good going well. Jessica,
she seemed uncomfortable. It just wasn't working, and we just
kind of hung.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Out and talked some more until nighttime came.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But as night fell, things took a turn.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Justin he pulls out Mas and they both start smoking
it and they try to get us to smoke it,
and we're like, no, we don't want to smoke it.
So we're just kind of awkward. We're not very comfortable
with the situation.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
They had a.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Little container I've never seen math before. I don't know
the quantity of what it was. They had this little
contact lens and it was full of it.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
It just kind of gets kind of weird. We don't
want to like say that we want to leave.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
We were too nice, so we just kind of stuck
around while they did math. They were okay at first,
I mean they were like the same. They were just
a little up, you know, their nerves and everything, and
they were just up and like full of energy.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And in no time at all, the shit hits the fan.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
They just start out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
They like start yelling at each other, and I don't
know what it has to do with because they were
whispering and stuff before.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
They start really yelling at each other.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And we thought that we could basically be a mediator
but make the situation calm down a bit and like
figure out what's going on and why they're so upset.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So we're like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And I have to like really get in there and
be like, okay, hey, how about we separate? And Jessica
goes in our car and Justin stays in the room,
and I start talking to Justin.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
My wife goes and talks to Jessica.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
And Justin is all over the place, like half the time,
I can't even understand what he's saying, but he's calling
her all kinds of names, and he's saying that he's
going to do stuff to her, and I'm like, what
the fuck is going on here? He was calling her
a bitch and a whore and stuff like that, and
(20:20):
he was gonna beat her and just you know, really
violent stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
He was out of his mind at that moment.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
He was mad because Jessica said that she wanted to
have sex with me, and I was like, okay, that
makes sense why you're mad.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Then I go to the car and I'm like, okay,
so what's going on?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And Jessica just seems scared, you know, she just seems
like she's scared. She doesn't want to talk to him,
she doesn't want to see him. She's sitting in the
car crying, just saying that she's just scared, and we
felt bad for her.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
At that point. We go back inside. I tell Justin.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I'm like, okay, Jessica's gonna come back in here, but
you have to stop yelling and you have to stop
being so violent.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
And he was like okay, right.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Whenever Jessica watched the door, he starts screaming and yelling again,
and We're like, what the heck. This is exactly the
opposite of what you said you were gonna do.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So things weren't working out.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I tried one last time to tell him that he
needs to calm down, and he freaked out on me.
He said, if you don't shut the fuck up, then
I'm gonna splatter your head against the wall. He threatened
to bash my head into the wall. And at that moment,
I was genuinely scared. He was a way bigger guy
(21:51):
than me, and it just gotten out of control. I
don't know how far he was willing to go or
if he was actually gonna hurt me, so at that moment,
we were like, okay, we're going to grab our bags
and we're going to go.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
But before they left, the couple tried to help a hysterical,
inconsolable Jessica.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Jessica, she follows us to the door and she was
like crying, she was sobbing. She was like, I'm so sorry,
I'm so sorry. And then we were like, okay, listen, Jessica,
we're going to a hotel.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
If you want to come with us, you can't just
hop in the car with us, and she was like
I can't, I can't, I can't go, and we were like, listen,
you need to come in the car with us.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
And we're going to go to a hotel for a
couple of days.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
It's not a big deal. You just need to get
away from her. And she didn't listen. She was scared
that he was going to do something more. I'm sure
in that little sliver of time that we spent with them,
we saw how violent he could.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Get and we figured that it wasn't going to end well.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Just because of that experience, it was just the weirdest
weekend we've ever had.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
After we left and went back.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Home, they called us like a week later, and it
was really just them apologizing and saying sorry, like over
and over again, and we basically just let them know
that we don't want to speak to them ever again.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
We told them to stop calling us, and I think
that was the most blunt we ever were with them.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It was easier not having to be face to face
with them, just to be able to tell them over
the phone.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
But they listened. They didn't call us ever again.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
This all happened just a few months before Jessica vanished.
The unsettling experience has stuck with Kin and Barbie. They've
thought about it ever since they left That day. But
when they caught wind that Jessica was found dead, that's
when they really started having thoughts.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
We think that Jessica had a good heart, and we
think she was a good person and she was a
pleasure to be around.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Justin, on the other hand, was not well.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I think what happened was Jessica might have came to
her senses and was like, Okay, I got to get
away from this guy.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
No matter the theories about what happened to Jessica, the
fact remained she was gone. What was left were her remains,
which had been released to Justin as her next of kin,
though he hadn't claimed them. Instead, he took to the
Internet to try and raise money for a funeral, one
(24:46):
that Jessica's family had already offered to take care of.
He created two separate GoFundMe accounts, one under her legal
name Jessica, the other under her kimming name Vivian, and
offering various items in return for donations, shoes, lingerie, even photos.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
He was sitting there selling her image. And then we
tried to get all that stuff shut down, and the
cop said that they would look into it, but they
never did. They never did anything. It was us that
got that all shut down, and there must have been
like seven or eight porn sites. I ended up getting
on Twitter in January and I put my story out
(25:31):
there about Jessica, and I had at least thirty in
box messages saying to me, what do you mean she
died in August. He's been telling us in November, like
no August. Everyone he was following. I went on his
thing and I just started following all them people, and
(25:52):
I started tagging him so that they would see my
sister's story. It was just a mess. It was just
it was chaotic. He was sitting there. It's like he
didn't even have a care, Like he didn't even care
about Jessica.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
The camming community was incensed, and they rallied, finding ways
to shut down as many of his online accounts as possible,
which seemed to stop him in his tracks. And while
Jessica sat alone inside the coroner's office, unclaimed, her family
couldn't get the one thing they wanted the most, Jessica.
(26:34):
To make matters worse, they were also lacking answers about
what happened to her. A quick visit from TODDNY to
the New Orleans Police Department wouldn't lend any assurance as
to where their investigation was headed.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
It's considered unclass Fried, so an on class Fried that
leaves us in limbo because we're not allowed to make
any more regard in a case because we don't have
a determinate cause of dead, So no one here would
be like trying to go out and find more information
to fill in holes in what happened because it's the
(27:12):
forensic stakes.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV
in conjunction with Caden's Thirteen, Written and hosted by me
Jessica Nolan and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd Mcomas,
with additional production by Whitney Bozart. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
(27:49):
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat Kicklider of
the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or
are looking to start one, check us out at Resonate
(28:12):
Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score is
by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow
Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod.
Show notes as well as bonus content can be found
(28:34):
on our website undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed
this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review.
Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have
any information about this case, call crime Stoppers at one
eight seven seven nine zero three seven eight sixty seven
(29:00):
y
Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new
episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get
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Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed
(00:24):
and participating in the show, and do not represent those
of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or
mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found
guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject
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(00:45):
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Speaker 2 (00:53):
She told me about it to some degree before they
came to stay in my home. I never really investigated it.
I never really asked her more about it. He is
a very pushy person. Around a person like that, you
hesitate to wait into any conversation, much less something you're
not interested in. I think she was under a lot
(01:14):
of pressure to bring money in and to provide, but
at the same time not allowed to leave, because I
think it's part of what held her in place after
she was ready to leave. Is she had this dirty secret.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We all have our secrets, right, the things that only
select few know about, or that we keep tucked away
for no one to ever see or know. Most of
us are fortunate enough to be in control of our secrets,
our narrative. For a long time. That's what Jessica did.
(02:16):
She had her secrets, and for various reasons, she kept
them to herself. But near the end of her life
she started to open up a little, namely with Maria,
who first heard about Jessica and Justin's not so side
hustle while they were staying at her home for Thanksgiving
in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
When she first started telling me about it, I just
thought they were bored. I thought they were a couple
in their forties. Maybe the spark was gone. They spend
too much time together, so maybe they were just trying
to spice things up. I was like, you know, whatever,
do you if that's entertaining to you. I didn't know
that it was really for the income the way I
think it turned out to be, so, even when they
(03:01):
were in my home, I never knew their stage names.
I don't know if you call it a stage name online.
They're online names. I never knew their alter egos, and
at one point she was sitting on my couch and
she was like, see, look these people are tipping. And
she was like looking at some app Apparently it's very
user friendly, and there were like little coins floating across
(03:23):
the screen the same way people do likes or hearts
or whatever when somebody's like doing a live stream on Facebook.
So these little coins are floating across the screen, and
she was like, see he's tipping them. I was like, okay, well,
how much is that little tip worth? She was like, oh,
that's like five cents. I remember us joking back and forth,
(03:43):
and I was like, I wonder if I could just
put my feet on there, like while I'm doing my files,
if some weirdo wants to look at my feet and
send me some money, Like I could be okay with that,
Like that's not too risky and my face would never
be involved. I was like, I wonder if somebody wants
to pay me for my feet, But I mean I
want to be a weirdo about my feet, like knock
yourself out, here's my vemo. Yeah, but the conversation never
(04:06):
really got any further than that. This really I'm not
trying to put my naughty bits on the internet in
perpetuity for my grandkids to look up like no Nana.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
While Maria was able to keep it all lighthearted, even
joking about it, Learning that Jessica was performing sex shows
online for money was a pretty startling peak into her
life with Justin, and it was certainly a new revelation
to her family. But Maria thinks it was more about control.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think that she would have done anything that he
wanted her to do because she really just wanted to
make him happy. I'm not going to completely alleviate her
of all responsibility, because you know, she was an adult,
so it's possible that she wanted to experiment with the
sexual stuff that they were doing online, as possible that
she wanted to experiment with drugs. But that was not
(05:00):
at all the Jessica that I knew growing up. The
Jessica that I knew growing up was the sort of
girl that was comfortable wearing a strand of pearls and
an updue because we worked in the casino industry together,
when people would get into like salacious or scandalous situations,
she'd be like, we are Southern ladies, like you do
not do that, So it was a huge departure from
(05:23):
who I knew her to be. She was a shadow
of her former self.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
To friends and family, Jessica may have become somewhat of
a shadow of herself, but she was still Jessica, the
girl they'd known and loved for most of her life
well before the camming. But to a whole community online,
she was known as Vivian and her partner was Lance.
(05:58):
These were Jessica and Justina's camming names. So what exactly
is camming?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, it's different for everyone but me and my wife specifically.
We just go on camera and people will pay us
for our time. So if we're camming for an hour
for a specific person, then we request a specific dollar
amount per minute, and that's how we get paid. People
(06:29):
are viewing us on the screen. We have a camera
in front of us that's looked up to the computer
and it's live, so everything we do is live.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
This is Ken, well that's his camming name, alongside his wife, Barbie. Yeah,
Ken and Barbie.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I am Ken and my wife is Barbie.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And we met Justin and Jessica through the camming community.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
In fact, as far as we know, they are the
only camers to have ever met up with Vivian and
Lance inside their home and saw them together as a couple,
But it's an experience they regretted almost from the start.
More on that in just a minute. The young couple
(07:22):
got into camming after he lost his other online fortune.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I made a pretty hefty fortune on bitcoin when I
was in high school, and being young and having a
decent fortune, you don't really know how to spend it.
So me and my wife we dug ourselves in a
hole living in Miami. We needed something to keep us
going and keep us alive and off the streets, so
(07:48):
we chose to start camming, and it worked out really
well for us, so we just stuck with it ever since.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
We really enjoyed the job because we get to spend.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
All of our time together, one of us just having
to leave the house go to work and things like that.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
So it works for us.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So, you know, immediately a bunch of cam people started
reaching out to us, like, oh, Wow, you're going to
do so.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Good at this.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You're gonna you're gonna be able to retire by the
time you're thirty, blah blah blah, And you know, just
like trying to flatter us, trying to get close to us.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
And we thought that was normal. And it turns.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Out that for the most part, that a lot of
them were trying to use us because we were naive
to the canning community and how it works.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So people were trying to get us to.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Help them in different ways, and it just seemed to
us like everyone's out for themselves and trying to like
make their into the deal better.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Me and my wife, we kind of stay in our
own little bubble. We don't really talk to anyone else.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Kin says that while there is a darker side to
the camming community, he and Barbie stay away from that.
It's kind of how the community works. You only do
what you feel comfortable with.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I mean, every single person out there has a different
experience camming. One experience is not the same as another's.
Some people have really bad experiences camming, and some people
have really good experiences camming. There's definitely some bad stigma
(09:27):
about the sex industry, and you know, for what it's worth,
I'm sure a lot of it's true.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I'm not denying that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
But that's why we stick to camming, because we get
to create our own rules and boundaries. So if anyone
steps over those boundaries, we can put an end to
it by a click of a button. If we feel
offended or threatened in some way, then all we got
to do is hit the block button and they disappear.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
We do this together, and only together.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
We don't talk to any other cameras, we don't post
on so media really. Ever, we just realized that it's
best to stay in your own little bubble and not
try to get too far out there and meet too
many people, because so far, all the people that we've met,
they've ended in like really crazy experiences.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
One of those crazy experiences for Ken and Barbie was
meeting Vivian and Lance at their home in New Orleans.
When we sat down with Ken, he shared his personal
experience and opinions from that in person meeting, and from
here on out in this episode, we'll go back to
referring to them as Jessica and Justin.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
They were trying to get close to us early on
because they knew that we would be successful at this job,
and from the very beginning things turned out really well
for us. We didn't really have to worry about money
or anything like that, and they just kind of reached
out to us, and then they started to call more
(11:01):
and try to reach out to us more. They were
really really easy to get along with, mostly her Jessica.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
She was really easy to get along with.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
She just kind of reeled us in and gave us
someone to talk to that was in the industry.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
We were new to it.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
We didn't know anything. So if we had any kind
of questions, they would help us out with that, and
we just talked to them. I don't know, I'd say
maybe once.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Or twice a month she would call.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
As that went on, they started feeling closer to us
and whatnot. So I guess they felt comfortable asking us
for money here and there. They would ask us for
like one hundred bucks, and we didn't know what their
situation was. And I'm too nice sometimes if people need help,
(11:54):
I'm usually willing to help. So whenever they had asked
me for money, I just did it. I didn't think
anything of it. I knew that they had a daughter,
and I knew that they.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Probably weren't doing that well. I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Them telling us that they had a job, so camming
was how they were making money, and every single time
they cam they weren't really doing that well, that kind
of made us sad. So yeah, we would help every
now and then. And I don't regret it.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
It's whatever.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I just wish I would have known them better before
we really got involved with their lives.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
But their meetup wasn't really something they had planned. It
was just by happenstance. They'd driven to Pensacola, Florida to
meet with a friend of Barbie's, but the friend never showed.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
We were like, what the heck?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
We drove all the way down here, so what could
we do to make it a trip that's not wasted?
And we remember that Jessica and Justin they.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Lived in New Orleans and that was just a little
bit farther.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
So we called them up.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
And we asked them if it'd be cool if we
came down to hang out.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Before they even arrived at Jessica and Justin's house, they
see their first red flag.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
We were basically asking them if it was cool if
we come by, and that's whenever they started texting us.
And then they randomly texted us a pipe and I
didn't know if it was a crack pipe or a
met pipe. I don't know the difference. If there is
a difference or what. But they sent me a pipe
that looked like you smoke drugs out of it. And
(13:41):
when they did that, we were like, what is this.
I was like, you're joking. I Like, I asked them
if they were joking, and they're like they would send
back like an emoji, a lack emoji or an LOL
or something and be like, yeah, we're just messing with you.
We were skeptical, but then they said that they were
a joke, and we just took it for what it was.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Like, we thought that they were joking.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
If we were texting someone, we didn't know if it
was Justin or Justica. We had no idea, and I'm
pretty sure sometimes she would act like her whenever he
was texting us, Like sometimes we detext We're like, this
feels like it's Justin texting us right now. We didn't
think anything of that until we met them, and then
(14:25):
we saw how he was. It all happened so gradually,
it's like they just reeled us in.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
When Ken and Barbie pull into the driveway at their
Lakeview home, everything seems fine at.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
First, everything's cool.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
At first, he kind of looks like he's cracked out,
which we thought was weird at first, but then we
kind of just blew it off because we didn't want
to be mean.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Or we just didn't want to make a scene or
make them feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Justin's di me is something Ken remembers vividly.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
He looked like he was on some kind of drug
that was like speed, Like it was making him talk
really fast and like make really weird movements and stuff.
And we didn't know if that was just his personality
or if he was on drugs.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
We didn't know. He told us he took Adderall prescribed adderall,
so we didn't know if it was that either.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
But anyway, we came into this whole situation non judgmental.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
We just like, this is our first time meeting him.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
We just wanted to meet him, and we didn't want
to make a big deal out of it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Ken and Barbie quickly realize they're not the only other
ones in the house. Soon they'd meet Justin's daughter and
noticed that his elderly father was there too. Though they
never spoke.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
He was always in the other room with the lights off.
You could just see him the doorway.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
That's another reason why it was sketchy, Like he never
introduced himself to me. He never spoke a word to me.
Justin said the whole time, I could just ignore him,
don't talk to him. I just thought it was the
weirdest thing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
As the visit continues, their concerns for Jessica begin to fester.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
We were most scared for her.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
It's like, she's stuck here with these crazy people.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I just don't understand. I don't understand how she's at
that house.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Kin's growing impression of Justin kept signaling to him that
something was just off about this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
He tried to sell me a gun.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
He showed me a bunch of pictures on his phone
and he was like, I can get you one of these.
You just send me three thousand dollars cash and I'll
get you one. He's trying to make money. I don't
even know if he had as real guns or if
he's just showing people pictures on his phone trying to
make a quick dollar.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
They'd say that he used to be in the Marines
whenever he was showing me guns. That's where I thought
he had guns from, was being in the military. And
I didn't ask to see them because I didn't.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Care about him.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
He offered to buy me a gun or sell me
a gun, and I was like, I'm good, and he
just had a lot of sketchy games.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Pushing past the awkward hit chat and gun pedaling, the
two couples tried to make the most out of the
visit and do what they do cam, but that turned
out to be kind of a bust too.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
We planned to do a cam show did like a
big bathtub is kind of like a hot tub. It
was a work thing and it just wasn't good going well. Jessica,
she seemed uncomfortable. It just wasn't working, and we just
kind of hung.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Out and talked some more until nighttime came.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But as night fell, things took a turn.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Justin he pulls out Mas and they both start smoking
it and they try to get us to smoke it,
and we're like, no, we don't want to smoke it.
So we're just kind of awkward. We're not very comfortable
with the situation.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
They had a.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Little container I've never seen math before. I don't know
the quantity of what it was. They had this little
contact lens and it was full of it.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
It just kind of gets kind of weird. We don't
want to like say that we want to leave.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
We were too nice, so we just kind of stuck
around while they did math. They were okay at first,
I mean they were like the same. They were just
a little up, you know, their nerves and everything, and
they were just up and like full of energy.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And in no time at all, the shit hits the fan.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
They just start out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
They like start yelling at each other, and I don't
know what it has to do with because they were
whispering and stuff before.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
They start really yelling at each other.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And we thought that we could basically be a mediator
but make the situation calm down a bit and like
figure out what's going on and why they're so upset.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So we're like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And I have to like really get in there and
be like, okay, hey, how about we separate? And Jessica
goes in our car and Justin stays in the room,
and I start talking to Justin.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
My wife goes and talks to Jessica.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
And Justin is all over the place, like half the time,
I can't even understand what he's saying, but he's calling
her all kinds of names, and he's saying that he's
going to do stuff to her, and I'm like, what
the fuck is going on here? He was calling her
a bitch and a whore and stuff like that, and
(20:20):
he was gonna beat her and just you know, really
violent stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
He was out of his mind at that moment.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
He was mad because Jessica said that she wanted to
have sex with me, and I was like, okay, that
makes sense why you're mad.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Then I go to the car and I'm like, okay,
so what's going on?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And Jessica just seems scared, you know, she just seems
like she's scared. She doesn't want to talk to him,
she doesn't want to see him. She's sitting in the
car crying, just saying that she's just scared, and we
felt bad for her.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
At that point. We go back inside. I tell Justin.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I'm like, okay, Jessica's gonna come back in here, but
you have to stop yelling and you have to stop
being so violent.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
And he was like okay, right.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Whenever Jessica watched the door, he starts screaming and yelling again,
and We're like, what the heck. This is exactly the
opposite of what you said you were gonna do.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So things weren't working out.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I tried one last time to tell him that he
needs to calm down, and he freaked out on me.
He said, if you don't shut the fuck up, then
I'm gonna splatter your head against the wall. He threatened
to bash my head into the wall. And at that moment,
I was genuinely scared. He was a way bigger guy
(21:51):
than me, and it just gotten out of control. I
don't know how far he was willing to go or
if he was actually gonna hurt me, so at that moment,
we were like, okay, we're going to grab our bags
and we're going to go.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
But before they left, the couple tried to help a hysterical,
inconsolable Jessica.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Jessica, she follows us to the door and she was
like crying, she was sobbing. She was like, I'm so sorry,
I'm so sorry. And then we were like, okay, listen, Jessica,
we're going to a hotel.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
If you want to come with us, you can't just
hop in the car with us, and she was like
I can't, I can't, I can't go, and we were like, listen,
you need to come in the car with us.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
And we're going to go to a hotel for a
couple of days.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
It's not a big deal. You just need to get
away from her. And she didn't listen. She was scared
that he was going to do something more. I'm sure
in that little sliver of time that we spent with them,
we saw how violent he could.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Get and we figured that it wasn't going to end well.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Just because of that experience, it was just the weirdest
weekend we've ever had.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
After we left and went back.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Home, they called us like a week later, and it
was really just them apologizing and saying sorry, like over
and over again, and we basically just let them know
that we don't want to speak to them ever again.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
We told them to stop calling us, and I think
that was the most blunt we ever were with them.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It was easier not having to be face to face
with them, just to be able to tell them over
the phone.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
But they listened. They didn't call us ever again.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
This all happened just a few months before Jessica vanished.
The unsettling experience has stuck with Kin and Barbie. They've
thought about it ever since they left That day. But
when they caught wind that Jessica was found dead, that's
when they really started having thoughts.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
We think that Jessica had a good heart, and we
think she was a good person and she was a
pleasure to be around.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Justin, on the other hand, was not well.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I think what happened was Jessica might have came to
her senses and was like, Okay, I got to get
away from this guy.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
No matter the theories about what happened to Jessica, the
fact remained she was gone. What was left were her remains,
which had been released to Justin as her next of kin,
though he hadn't claimed them. Instead, he took to the
Internet to try and raise money for a funeral, one
(24:46):
that Jessica's family had already offered to take care of.
He created two separate GoFundMe accounts, one under her legal
name Jessica, the other under her kimming name Vivian, and
offering various items in return for donations, shoes, lingerie, even photos.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
He was sitting there selling her image. And then we
tried to get all that stuff shut down, and the
cop said that they would look into it, but they
never did. They never did anything. It was us that
got that all shut down, and there must have been
like seven or eight porn sites. I ended up getting
on Twitter in January and I put my story out
(25:31):
there about Jessica, and I had at least thirty in
box messages saying to me, what do you mean she
died in August. He's been telling us in November, like
no August. Everyone he was following. I went on his
thing and I just started following all them people, and
(25:52):
I started tagging him so that they would see my
sister's story. It was just a mess. It was just
it was chaotic. He was sitting there. It's like he
didn't even have a care, Like he didn't even care
about Jessica.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
The camming community was incensed, and they rallied, finding ways
to shut down as many of his online accounts as possible,
which seemed to stop him in his tracks. And while
Jessica sat alone inside the coroner's office, unclaimed, her family
couldn't get the one thing they wanted the most, Jessica.
(26:34):
To make matters worse, they were also lacking answers about
what happened to her. A quick visit from TODDNY to
the New Orleans Police Department wouldn't lend any assurance as
to where their investigation was headed.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
It's considered unclass Fried, so an on class Fried that
leaves us in limbo because we're not allowed to make
any more regard in a case because we don't have
a determinate cause of dead, So no one here would
be like trying to go out and find more information
to fill in holes in what happened because it's the
(27:12):
forensic stakes.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV
in conjunction with Caden's Thirteen, Written and hosted by me
Jessica Nolan and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd Mcomas,
with additional production by Whitney Bozart. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper,
(27:49):
Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our
senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound
design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole and Pat Kicklider of
the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or
are looking to start one, check us out at Resonate
(28:12):
Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score is
by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole.
Our cover art is by Station sixteen. You can follow
Undetermined Podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod.
Show notes as well as bonus content can be found
(28:34):
on our website undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed
this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review.
Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have
any information about this case, call crime Stoppers at one
eight seven seven nine zero three seven eight sixty seven
(29:00):
y
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