July 11, 2023 • 48 mins
Today on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, LaVar and Geoff react to Northwestern’s decision to fire Pat Fitzgerald after more details emerge regarding their hazing scandal. The Blazers say they’re taking their time with a Damian Lillard trade but do they owe it to Dame to trade him where he wants? Plus a debate over Hall of Fame qualifications.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It is the best of two pros and a cup
of Joe with Lamar Arias and Rady Win and Jonas
Knots on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Jerry read one fifty Hey like then this is he
I'm done with sixty down the one with it a
cruise down the avenue. Good morning, good morning, good morning,
good morning, Happy Tuesday to everyone out there. This is
two pros and a cup of joe. Yeah, and you
(00:33):
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(00:54):
So I've told you guys on Monday, Jonas is out.
He's he's on VAK for a week. Brady will be
back soon as we have said for for a few weeks.
And uh, my man, Jeff Schwartz, he's back in the
saddle with your boy. And Jeff, you made a Bowld
call yesterday and you said, well, this looks like fire firing. Fire.
(01:17):
I had no idea that that firing would actually take
place literally what less than twenty four hours of us
getting back on the air. So all of a sudden,
Northwestern we first of all, how are you doing? How
are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Jeff fantastic. I am doing great. Glad to be back
with you. It's good to it's it's it's fun to
fill in, you know, like get a day or two,
but a whole week is nice because you gotta get
this report going and like it's a good it's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
To be in for the week. Yeah, I'm with you. There,
I'm with you. Well, man, I couldn't thought of a
better person to be hanging out with for for this week.
So I appreciate you making yourself available. Lee. What do
we got detail wise here on the latest developments with
Northwestern Fire and Pat Fitzgerald.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Well, of course, yesterday we had talked a lot about
the allegations against Pat Fitzgerald, whether or not he knew
how much he knew about the hazing that involved sexual contact.
Yesterday we talked about it bordering on the line of
sexual assault. Well, after you know, seventeen years as a
head coach, five as an assistant for as a player,
Fitzgerald has now been fired.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Come Friday.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
He was of course suspended two weeks without pay, without
a notice. Afterwards and a further investigation, they decided to
fire Fitzgerald and now he is lawyered up saying he
has not been given any other reason, and the investigation
had found that he had still not confirmed whether or
not he was aware of the abuse.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It was inconclusive and in course of that is if
he knew what was going on in the locker room.
So that is where we stand right now. Okay, all right, Jeff,
what do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Oh man, I have I have lots of thoughts here.
It's it's you know, I he was gonna get fired.
This is gonna be a I says yesterday. So you
let's start with this. When you don't win, right, when
your talent outweighs your problem or problems, you typically lose
(03:25):
that job you're in, right, or you lose whatever relationship
you're in, or you lose any you know, something is
on the line, you're gonna lose that right when Now,
when your talent outweighs your problems, you typically keep your job. Right.
I mean, there's there's legitimate concern at Georgia for things
that are happening. They are they're two time champions, right,
You go a little bit of break. So when you
win one game last year, one one and eleven. Last
(03:47):
season they won the first game of the year, lost
eleven in a row. After that, they won three games
the previous year. So when you start losing, you you
don't get leewayh at all, especially with a with a
brand new president who has no association with you at all.
They have a new president from Oregon, and this was
gonna be the end result, LeVar Look. Hazing is a
(04:10):
is a broad term, right for a lot of things
that happened in a building, And for the most part,
hazing quotquote, hazing is something that's done as a bonding
between players on the team, right, And for the most
part it's harmless. Yeah, it might be expensive every now
and then to pay for a dinner, yeah it might.
It might not be nice for an older player to
(04:32):
yell at you to go do something for them.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You know, back in the day we saw hard knocks.
You know, the used to tie you to a pole,
right and pour water on you. Okay, yeah it's not
it's not fun for that hour you're on the pole,
But in the end, it's mostly harmless, right, And in
the end, it's mostly a bonding experience because I went
through it, and then the next guy went through it,
and next guy I went through it, and it feels
like a common thing we've all done together and we're
(04:56):
all part of the team. And especially in training camp,
it's a long time. Any camp, you're gonna have a
little bit of fun, right, And so for the most part,
things that you you people listening to this might think
is a little bit I don't know if I'd want
to do that in my job. We do it in
our job, and everything's fine. It's a bonding experience and
every no problems with it. So when I hear some
of the stories that were happening in Northwestern, it does
(05:20):
raise a Laura Bells because, laar that stuff that I
played in one college obviously, so did you. I played
on six NFL teams. Okay, now, at the end of
my time in twenty sixteen, there weren't as much quote
nquote hazing things that happened compared to when I was younger.
But like the Northwestern story went a little bit too far, right,
Like that's things you're like, oh, really they're doing that
(05:41):
in that locker room. And then the question is well,
how much did coach know?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And the reports are that there was a whiteboard in
the locker room listing out these hazing punishments, which is odd.
I don't know why that.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I mean, they you know, they do that whole we're
smart thing, so.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I guess, But so coach coach had to know, right
And and.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
The question is the whiteboard in the middle of the
locker room. The coach got to know.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
The questions like how much does a coach know in
a program. He's been there since two thousand and six, Okay,
he runs that entire building, all right, he should know
what's happening in his locker room. To this extent, this
is something that's happening year after year. He's gonna know
about it. He just is, Okay, it's happening in his
(06:31):
own locker room with his own players. He's gonna know
about it. And I know that he claims he doesn't
know about it. Maybe there's no evidence he actually didn't
know about it, because obviously that'd be hard to kind
of prove. But this, this was gonna happen. Once this
whole story came out, right, the student newspaper there did
a good job of all this. The one question I
do have, LeVar, I think it's worth is worth asking.
(06:52):
We don't have an answer for it, is why did this
way to come out till now? Was it the losing?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
What?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Were people tired of? A message? There? Where people over
the coach and just kind of this is the way
they're lashing out of him because he's again he's been
there to two thousand and six. I don't think that
hazing started yesterday, So why now do these reports come out?
It doesn't it doesn't invalidate the reports, doesn't make them
any less worse. But that's a it's a long time
(07:18):
to coach. And then now it comes out that there's
been this this hazing incident over year after year. There's
some issues with hair styles in the locker room. That's
dating back to two thousand and nine. I believe that report. So, uh,
that's the question. I think that's it's valid. It's why now.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I think it's a valid question. I think it's a
dangerous move. Again. One win team last year, three win
team the year before. But nonetheless, you have a team, Yeah,
you have a team. And here here's here's what I'm thinking.
All right, and in these scenarios. It is a very
(08:00):
difficult And listen, they're in the Big ten, so I
know they're aware of what took place at Penn State.
I get that schools are going to be very very stern,
very stringent, very very quick to handle things a certain
type of way, because you do not want to lose
the reputation of your school. You do not want to
(08:20):
lose the mystique, the trust, the cachet, whatever you know,
people may want to call it. You don't want to
lose that. And in Penn State, we did lose that.
Penn State. We were fighting for so long just to
be normal after everything that took place. And listen, bye bye,
(08:43):
I guess measurement what took place at Penn State way worse.
But with that being said, these are these are allegations.
These are claims that have sexual assault connected to them.
And so to me, and I'm not a lawyer and
I'm not into the legal deal, I just, you know,
(09:04):
as a novice, know what some of that means, some
of the terminology means. And my whole thing is when
this came about, learning about it, I would be curious
to know when was the first, like did do we
know when the investigation started, Lee, like, that would be
the first thing that I would be wanting to know,
(09:27):
because depending on when that investigation took place, then now
you have to start figuring out who's going to be
the coach of your team. Because here's my thing. The
one conclusion that I kind of came to with Joe
and with Jerry, and I'll say the same exact thing
as it applies to Pat Fitzgerald in this scenario is
(09:50):
as a father, which a head coach is a father.
If you want to go personal, if you want to
go business, the presidency of the company is the head
of that company. You don't get You don't get a
free pass for not knowing. You don't like as a father,
(10:13):
if my kids are are in the house doing things
that they shouldn't be doing, I don't get to say, oh, well,
I didn't know. I don't get to do that. I
don't get that free pass.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Lee.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
What you got, Well, the the anonymous complaint came in
late November early December last year, and the investigation was
publicly disclosed January of this year.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Okay, that's ample amount of time to come up with
an investigation conclusion before now have a person ready to
go that's going to coach this team and give these
kids the opportunity to measure and way out engage what
(10:56):
they want to do. I find this to be a
very unprofessional way of handling it, as it appears. I
think that they've put this this this group of young
men that are in that locker room, at least the
ones that are deserving of a fair opportunity to to
have their scholastic UH sports career go a certain type
(11:17):
of way at Northwestern. I believe they've been compromised and
and it appears to me it kind of comes across
to me as as more agenda driven than than actually
what took place itself.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, Laura recalled, they gave him a two weeks suspension
on Friday. Correct, So uh now, I do wonder how
much of this came from. Again, I mentioned that before
the president just got there in August. Okay, he was
from Oregon.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Okay, and that's fair. That's fair.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Maybe there was like okay, what's you know? Try Okay again,
I don't know this coach. I'm gonna go off with
the with the law firm that we hired, it said,
But to your point though about the Timmy of this.
You know, they tried to bury this right because they
treated they released the news on a Friday in sort
of a dead time in the calendar, right when we're
(12:08):
not really you know, a lot of us are on vacation,
we're not paying attention to as much news 're maybe
switching between new social media platforms at the moment, but
like there's it was a dead time. They give them
a two week suspension during right now in college football,
coaches are on vacation. They can't recruit now. They can
call in text, I believe, but they can't have visitors
(12:29):
on campus. It is a dead time in the sport
right now. And for them to give them a two
week suspension during the dead time of the year, I
think really angered a lot of people, and that kind
of led to more information coming out in the student newspaper.
If they had done it differently, Hey we're just spending
for two weeks a month dark the season. Maybe we
(12:52):
don't get to this point. I'm not saying this is
the wrong decision, but we might get to a different
point if it's taken more seriously. There's nothing that the
Northwestern got between now and yesterday. If it's any different.
It's not like they got any new information. Oh excuse me,
I'll take that back from the law firm they hired.
(13:13):
They got new information I think from the student newspaper
that was interviewing some of these players, so that that's new.
The law firm who they hired to do this investigation
isn't didn't get anything new over the weekend, and so
a I guess the question is why was this all
not disclosed the first time? Now, I guess the law
firm is just focusing on what's happening, what happened in
(13:33):
the locker room recently, not long time ago. But they
tried to not give them u punishment essentially, right. And
what has always surprised me about these big companies right
Northwestern in the end is you know the big company company,
they butchered these all the time, man Like they messed
for having like PR firms and your own PR people,
(13:57):
for having your own lawyers you're having. I was many
people that are in the building that have had long
careers in Northwestern an any company. Man, they butchered these
and they butcher these all the time. And your point, like,
now you enter a season where look, there might be
a lot of players on the team that, like Pat Fitzgerald,
(14:17):
I didn't really think anything was wrong, which is a
problem if this is if what that was happening was happening.
I questioned some of the players there for allowing this
to happen. And I don't know if you that would
have happened on teams I played on some of the
things that like we've been like come on, stop right,
like we're not doing those We're not hazing kids that way.
So even you have a new coach now before the season.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Starts, is it in a room. And if it's in
a room, it has to But he's just as much
a part of the situation as the head coach, right,
I mean that's right.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It's like you it's like you have to ideally, when
the coach is fired, right now, you hire from within.
I mean, who's gonna you can't hire someone you basically
if you hire coach, now, what say it's Jim Leonard, right,
former Wisconsin defensive coordator that's been linked to the job
very quickly, he can't do anything for the season right now,
you're basically just hiring someone to be a babysitter for
(15:09):
six months because training camp schedules already planned, planned, They've
already game plan for the first three or four games.
You know, everything's set in motion. You're basically hiring a
babysitter for six months.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Now.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Of course they can implement some things, I guess, but
ain't gonna be like your first team meeting is going
to be the day of training camp, like the first
time you meet your team. So I uh, you're right though,
the interim thing. If you're firing him because he knew,
someone in the building will probably also do. I would
even argue that the assistants probably.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Knew before the coach, and then that's their job. Yeah,
that's their job to know what's going on. So more importantly,
probably or most most specifically, probably your white trainers, your
weight room.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Got strength, Yeah, the strim coaches, the strength coaches, and
the equipment guy and.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
The equipment guys strength and equipment, those are the two
that should have known. And if you're well, we're up
on a break. But this one is kind of to
me at this point, knowing what has happened in the past,
how big of an impact Penn State had on what
happens in locker rooms and all of sports, all of
(16:21):
college sports, even with what happened with Michigan State with
the gymnast. To me, you just cannot be a staff
that just allows your players to run amuck in the
locker room, in the facilities. You just can't do it.
You can't let them do it. And I said this yesterday.
You can't let them do it in the dorm rooms.
(16:42):
You can't let them do it in the team apartments.
If anything, the only place that would would seem to
make sense where something like this could happen and you
not know about it is in their own personal digs,
if they have an apartment off campus that they're upperclassmen,
stuff like that. If inappropriate things are happening in a
place that is not governed by the school, then you
(17:03):
have a conversation. But if it's in your locker room,
if it's in anything that, if it's in a team facility,
if it's in a school facility, the school representatives should know.
They should know, and there is no excuse to say
I didn't know anymore. That doesn't exist anymore. And that's
just my take on it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
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Speaker 2 (17:36):
We've been talking a whole lot about Damian Lillard and
what could happen in the whole Miami situation. It's starting
to uh develop and unfold a little bit. The stories
are beginning to become a little bit more let's just say, detailed.
And it was interesting because Portland finally has has chimed in.
(17:58):
Here's Joe Cronin, uh, the GM of the Trail Blazers,
and what he had to say about the Damian Lillard situation.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
I think the teams that have ended up in the
most positive situation post trade have been the ones that
have been really diligent and taking their time and been
not been impulsive, or the teams that really kept their
urgency under control. So I think that's how my approach
is going to has been with this and will be
with this as we're going to be patient, We're going
(18:26):
to do what's best for our team, and we're gonna see,
you know, how this lands, and if it takes months,
it takes.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Months, Okay, I had my thoughts on it but what
you got, bro uh, I.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Mean there from from their perspective, there is no rush, right.
I think we it's very clear they're going to trade
Dame Loward. The draft just drafted Scoot Henderson, who has
played well in the NBA Summer League. I know it's
NBA Summer League. It's just a couple of games, but
you know he he basically takes the place of Dame
Loward and obviously not the same player yet maybe never
been the same player. But they you know, they they've
(18:59):
basically After's replacement, right, But he's right there. There is
no rush, right, LaVar, Like, you don't have to do
this today tomorrow. And the more time you do it,
the closer you get to training camp, you know, the
more squeeze it probably puts on another team, like the
Heat to give you what you want. Because the Portland
I think is in the end, I mean they're fine
with keeping them. I mean they don't they don't have
(19:21):
to train them. Must at the end of the world,
if they keep Dave Lillard and again rich is yesterday,
how many how many NBA players in our life that
have ever sat out like NFL players do every now
and then, which NFL players rarely do actually but like
actually like miss games because of contract issues or or
or or no one right, no one ever does that.
(19:44):
So Willard is not gonna sit out. And I just
think that Portland can take their time in doing this.
And it doesn't help it that Lillard's people have said
that he's only going to Miami if you're if you're
the Trailblazers, what does Tyler Hero do for you?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Really? Like you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Like it just it it. There's not ideal trade at
the moment with the Miami Heat that makes the you know,
the Blazers happy.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Here's my thing, I can't I know we have Lee
efforting to see if we could find any player who
has sat out based off of not wanting to play
for the team. I will say this, this is what
I do know. Players will sit out and be on
the sideline with soft tissue injuries that that they are
(20:33):
unable to overcome and be a part of playing with
with the team. We've seen extended amounts of times where
players have sat out due to air quotes injuries. Now,
with that being said, the NBA is one of those
those leagues where the players, the players union is the
(20:55):
strongest aspect of it. Yes, they're stronger than anything else,
and they pretty much have done an excellent job for
players dictating them having the upper hand and what's taking place.
So it seems to be a culture where players can
dictate what they want to dictate. Now hearing Cronin come
(21:17):
out and say, we're going to do what's best for
the team. Of course you're going to do what's best
for the team, but how long does that take? Right
and you're looking for value? Where does that value come from?
If Miami doesn't want to do the deal, and somebody else,
say two or three teams come to the table later
on down the line they want to do a deal
(21:39):
for Dame Lillard. I just wonder, knowing how players are
able to dictate so much, how that plays out. If
they trade Dame to a team that Dame didn't want
to go to, where does this go? Where are they
at if they keep them, if they don't get rid
of them at all, where are they at?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
The question I have with this too is the idea
that the people throw out there that the Pleasures owe
it to Dame Willard. Do they owe it to him
to find him the right situation.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
No, he said, we're going to do what's best for
the take.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Well, I know, but do you think they owe they
owe it to I don't think they owe it to him.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Your job is your job, man. Like you can you
can feel sentimentally speaking, that somebody could do something nice
like Mike did. Did the bulls oh? Michael Jordan? You know?
Did they? Well? They let Michael Jordan go.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I feel like after six championships, maybe owe him. Dam
Millard has zero.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
They showed Mike he did they did Mike s oh?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah? Does the mid season NBA tournament all make Dame
Lillard want to stay in Portland?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Like?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
What if the Blazers can win the mid season tournament?
Raise that banner? Does he stay in Portland? How about that?
We have no talkt about that. I don't get the
point of that. Honestly, are you Are you going to
watch the NBA in December now because of a midseason tournament?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
No? I won't because I mean, I don't know, I
don't know what what are the implications of who's your.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Squad, who's your squad, who's your NBA's team.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I'm not a well the Wizards because I'm a Washington guy.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Would would would would? Would you be happy if the
Wizards raised a mid season won the tournament championship banner?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No, it wouldn't matter.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
They're paying the players who win five hundred thousand dollars each.
So there's money involved in this. It's a lot of money.
That's a lot of money. I don't care if you make,
if you have that is a lot of money, a
lot of money. But the point of this, I think
is the it's to copy what they do in in
uh in the soccer world, they have the kind of
mid season tournament that that typically you know again, it's
(23:43):
it's because it's one game with you know, two powerhouses
that play each other. That that that they don't have
a player that feels a lot different than whatever this
is gonna be. And the NBA is desperately trying for
players to care about the regular season and to make
it more competitive. Because player, if I watch a fair
(24:06):
amount of NBA near the end of the season, and
then I watch the entire playoffs, I think NBA playoff
basketball is fabulous. But you can't convince me those are
the same sports that I see the week before the
playoffs and in the week of the playoffs. Right, there's
two different sports, and the NBA is trying desperately to
do something for players to care because you mentioned, you know,
you dame Lyric could just sit out during the season
(24:28):
or just go to a team he doesn't like and
not play. They're trying to make it where that where
players don't feel that way right, where they feel like
they have to play the regular season because it matters
a lot, and I just don't know if this is
the way to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
You know. Another thing that you start to think about
is by making the players care more, you make the
viewer you know, care more, you know, and you might
yeah with it, and you might be able to sell
more tickets. Like even like you think about March Madness,
you know, or you have a midseason Matt Well.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
March Madness is because it's a one game in elimination,
Like that's the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Wasn't this one game elimination in this tournament?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I think there's a pool play first and that's one
game elimination. But again, you know, you know, if they
did March Madison December, you'd be like this is kind
of weird, Like this is not I'm a Lakers fan. Okay,
I don't care about the missis and tournament. You mean,
I'm the actual championship. We don't care about this thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think it breaks it up though a little bit,
like it's a long season, right Like for football, we
we don't have to do this because we don't have
a very long season. Those seasons are there's a lot
of games for in the NBA and then basketball, so well.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
This is added. This is adding games.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
But but what I'm saying is, but maybe it makes it.
It breaks it up in a way where it creates
a level of excitement for like you said, for the players,
because it's kind of like a breakaway from from what
the norm is, the monotony of going through the entire season.
I mean, it could generate some excitement, It could generate
some viewership, some participate, a patient I can see it.
(26:02):
But again back to the original point, No, I don't
see that being something that is attractive to Damian Lillard.
And if Portland were able to win one of those
those tournaments or whatever, I think Dame wants to have
a real opportunity to win a championship. I continue to
believe that Dame feels as though if he was in
that that this this past year's NBA Finals with the
(26:25):
Miami Heat, they win that that series, and so he's
trying to get there. He feels like he's maybe that
missing link to the Miami Heat. And who wouldn't want
to go play for the Miami Heat, right if you could? Oh?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So I again, I think that the complexity of this
situation is one the Portland Trailblazers are going to do
what's best for Portland. So if they're going to do
what's best for Portland, and Dame is perceivably going to
do what's best for Dame now and while people will say, okay,
well they this is why they owe it to Dame
(26:57):
is because Dame has been loyal to Portland. Well, Portland's
been loyal to paying him his paycheck, so he's been
loyal to play for them. They've been loyal to paying
him his paycheck. Dame doesn't want to be there anymore,
that's fine, but we're still going to do what's best
for the team. So perceivably Dame is going to do
what's best for Dame as well, And I just don't
(27:18):
know where that ends. I think this could turn ugly
before it gets better, but there will be a trade
that takes place. But then does it get uglier from there?
Does it get better for Dame? I mean it's hard
to say it.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I mean, obviously, if he goes to the Heat and
they would a championship, it all worked out. If he doesn't,
then it was all or not. I just don't know
if is Dame plus Jummy, Butler and Bam, is that
a championship?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's a big three? That's that is a big three?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Is that? I would say that that probably puts him
a head in the East over Boston over Milwaukee as
far as a big three at least, right Yeah, obviously
with Janni's healthy, Milwaukee's team, so I get the alert
plus two. I think for Lillard, you know, someone who
played football in Oregon for four years, you know there's
(28:10):
a lifestyle difference in Miami than Portland, which I think
will be a nice change for him. Also, you know
free agents want to go to Miami, all right. You're
not getting these guys in Portland, so you have different
avenues to win. We're in Portland. You have to just
draft and develop because you're not getting big stars to
go there. We know over the years, how many big
(28:32):
stars have gotten in to Miami. I mean, obviously Shack
went there, right, he won a championship. Lebron and Chris
Bosh went there and they won championships. Jimmy Butler is
now there, so it gives you an easier way to
win and build your roster being in Miami than it
does anywhere else. And he's right, Look, the teams that
have the opportunity to trade for him, Miami is probably
(28:56):
the best opportunity from to win. And he said, I'm
not play anywhere else, so you better trade me Miami
or I guess I'll sit out call his bluff. NBA
teams Lavarn't you know this man? They don't call players
bluff story often. The NFL does all the time. Right, Oh, okay, okay,
go ahead, yeah, all right, you know you don't want
(29:19):
to make money. Oh, i'd be my guest. I So
I'm curious to see if an NBA team in Portland
kind of finally calls the players bluff or they you know,
they trade him somewhere else and he doesn't playing, he
doesn't play, which I I guess i'd be fasting right.
No one ever does in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
They're not going to call his bluff. They're gonna figure
it out and they're going to get rid of them.
But the problem is for for Dame Lillard, what happens
with the moving him, moving him on? Is he going
to end up in Miami or is it going to
be the way? Yes, we'll see. I think that that's
going to be the biggest, the biggest piece of this.
Where does he land? Not not if he lands, but
(29:56):
where does he lands?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
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Speaker 6 (30:08):
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Speaker 2 (30:37):
Jeff my guy, Taro Owens. You know, he has some
interesting things to say. And I think this is was
this from his show or did he do an interview?
This was from the Get Your Popcorn Ready podcast exactly.
So it came from that the Get You Your Popcorn
Ready podcast, which is Matthew Hatchett and Taro Owens. And
(30:59):
I don't know that I disagree with what he has
to say, but let's let's hear what he has to say.
Let's hear him outain let's go from there.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
I'm thinking about a guy like Darren Woodson that's not
in the Hall of Fame, but John Lynch is that.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
How do you the bound it? Hell?
Speaker 7 (31:14):
Do you quantify that? I want you to go research
maybe when you come back, revisit it, go research and
see what Darren Woodson is doing.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (31:21):
Granted, yeah, John Lynch did some great things here and now,
But I ain't.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
No, I'm not looking for John You get him say,
I wasn't.
Speaker 7 (31:28):
Just because a guy starts on the defense and he's
the number one guy back there in the secondary for
that defense.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
For me, overall totality of it.
Speaker 7 (31:36):
That doesn't mean like, Okay, he was he's impacting what
I'm going to be doing. Yeah, he has to be
accounted for for that day because you gained planning.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
But I'm not. I wasn't. I wasn't scared of forty seven,
all right. So first of all, I don't believe in
justifying one thing or disqualifying one thing to justify the other. Right,
I believe John Lynch is great now was his greatness Like,
he's a hell of a player, and he's a Hall
of Fame player. In my book, I think he is
a Hall of Famer. However, I do not I do
(32:08):
not disagree with him in saying that Darren Woodson should
be a guy that's in the Hall of Fame. Now,
before you, before you give your opinion, Jeff, I just
wanted lead to give our listening audience just an idea
of the comp between between Darren Woodson and John Lynch.
(32:28):
John Lynch being in the Pro Bowl, in the Hall
of Fame, Darren Woodson not being in the Hall of Fame.
So let's start with Super Bowls. How many Super Bowls
does Darren Woodson have? Woodson has three Super Bowls. How
many does John Lynch have only the one? Okay? What
about Pro Bowls? Pro Bowls?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
I know Darren Woodson has a has five Pro Bowls,
but Lynch does have nine Pro Bowls.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Okay, that's a big one right there. Okay, what about
All pros? And this is the one right here? All
Pro agreed? Right? And Woodson has four All Pro First Team,
second team first.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Team while John Lynch has two first team and two
second team All pros.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
All right, so there you go.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I mean, the resume is better for Woodson.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
It's a better resume for Darren Woodson. So then now
the conversation becomes from a Hall of famer who made
this this statement. By the way, Tarrell Owens is a
Hall of Famer. What's your take, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like, well, Watson should be in, right,
I mean it seems pretty simple. I don't know why
he's not. I think that sometimes the Hall of Fame
voters often look at a position and just sort of
take one guy at a time there, right, and it's like, okay, well,
you know John Lynch is now in, so we're now
off of other players. I know this feels this way
(33:41):
for offensive lineman where it's like, Okay, they've chosen you know,
one offensive lineman, we're gonna wait now to choose someone else.
So maybe there's a bias and the positions. I think
the question you know, might have to be asked about again,
like the year and who gets in who doesn't. But
it sounds like what it should be in a We
know at times too that this can be a little
bit of a popularity contest, right, And I don't know
(34:05):
if that's one of the reasons why, but I think
I'm with t O here. I mean, look, I didn't
play very much against these two players. I know you
probably have more experience playing in that you know in
that time than I do. But it sounds like what's
in should should be in. And there's a lot of
arguments for plenty of guys to be in, right there is,
And I think that sometimes again it's a popularity contest,
which we know it is, and it's unfair to a
(34:31):
lot of players. But you look at look the NFL,
that's five guys in every year, right, and so you
have to look at at the kind of the finalists
each year and think, okay, what's in better than to
your point. You shouldn't throw John Lynch out right, But
is what's in better than the finalist for this given year.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, I mean, for me again, there are some guys
that should be shoe wins to the Hall of Fame.
But I'm not a voter. I don't know. I don't
I've never been really fully clear on the criteria of
what you know constitutes you getting in. Again, the one,
(35:13):
the number one guy that I always am. There's there's
two that I really feel should be in that I
always say, well, there's three actually, and I always start
off with Brian Mitchell. I do not understand why Brian Mitchell,
for the life of me, with all if you look
at his stat line, and his stat line isn't just
(35:35):
it's not hitting stats. It's not like, oh he's got
more you know, kickoff return yards or more punk return
yards by like Miles Yeah on on anyone you know
that's ever played and he's not in the league. He
was impacting games, he was winning, they were winning Super
Bowls because of having that that presence that Brian Mitchell
(35:59):
brought to the Washington football team. I just to me,
that one is mystifying. Yeah, they took a long time
to put art Monk in and that was that was
very strange to me.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Go ahead, god okay. So twenty twenty three, the finalists
are fifteen finalist Darren Woodson was one of the fifteen,
and the five that were chosen where Joe Thomas, Zach
Thomas linebacker, Zach Thomas, DeMarcus where one of the best
sac men in NFL history, Dale Reeves, and Ronde Barber. Okay,
is what should what'son being over any of those five?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
All right, so now here's what's interesting about that. My
gud I does up on game with me on Saturdays. TJ.
Hitchman Zada said that Ronde Barber doesn't belong in the
Hall of Fame over some of these guys that are
getting passed up.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I originally tweeted out something like, why is Rnde Barber
he was in the Hall of Fame over someone else?
I think I turned that out and people came out,
came at me, and he kind of do some some
research on this. Ronnie Barber was pretty freaking good.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Ronde Barber was a beast now five All pros.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
He had forty seven interceptions, fourteen touchdowns, and fifteen force fumbles.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
At corner.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
That's pretty dang good.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
He also twenty eight sacks.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
That's pretty dang good. Now, but does that compare does
that compare to Darren Woodson?
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Well, the different positions, right, So yes, very true. You
can't say that. So I mean Jared Woolson had seven
had seven, had eleven sacks, twenty three interceptions at safety
and seventeen force fumbles, So really good numbers. Obviously, Yeah,
he was. Again he was. He made more First team
(37:49):
All pros than Ronde Barber did, but he made less
Pro Ill pros in general, same amount of Pro Bowls.
But what often gets players that nod Super Bowl championships? Right,
he has three?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Right has one?
Speaker 3 (38:05):
So again, Woodson, I think we all agree should be in.
The question again becomes is he in in? Who is
he in over? In a given year? And last year?
I feel like those were pretty deserving, you know, pretty
deserving players to be the Hall of Fame. Uh, These
guys I think should be in too. I think will
(38:25):
Willie Anderson should be in.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Ye, he's always a big one.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
He's like he was the best right tackle in the
NFL for many many years. We just don't give right, tackles.
I think Lane Johnson might be the first one who
gets in. I hope what we gets it, I really do.
But I think Layne might be the first one who's
primarily right tackle NFL. So yeah, I I he should
be in. He should be in.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
But yes, Lester Hayes, give us his stat line.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
He's got two Super Bowls, he was a defensive Player
of the Year, he was on All Pro nineteen eighty,
led the league and interceptions that year, five times second
team All Pro, five Pro Bowls.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, I want to make a quick quick question. Jackie
Slater played right tackle. I want to make sure he
was get some proper love for being the right tackle
of the Hall of Fame. I made a people can
come after me that I don't know my offense alignment.
He played right tackle in the NFL. Who'd you mentioned?
Is having five All pros Lester Hayes, Lester, he's now
he would be in the in the Veterans committee group
(39:29):
right by now?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah? By now? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah. I look. I the NFL Hall of Fame has
five inductees every year. Obviously they have some some veteran class,
and we know there was a backlog in twenty twenty
where they added a bunch of contributors and coaches and whatnot.
It's five for a reason, right, it's hard to get in.
You know, Baseball does a vote, right, if you're I
think it's eighty percent, five percent of the vote, you're in.
(39:56):
I don't know what the NBA Hall of fa it's
not even Ammy Hall of Fame. It's prob Basketball Hall
of Fame. They let anyone in to that one. So
there's an exclusive club, right, five a year. It's it's hard,
it's hard to get in. There's guy which I mentioned this,
Guys LeVar you think should be in, I think should
be in. Carrows I think should be in. But it's
it's hard to get in. That's that's why I like
(40:18):
the n f Hall of Fame because they do that, right.
They it's they limit the class and they say, look,
these are five guys over living in every year, and
some years there's more than five that should be in.
Some years there's there's more, there's less than five. I
hope Putson gets in as soon as possible. He definitely
deserves it. When you compare his numbers and his play
to other guys who are in the Hall, of Fame
as well.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Oh, there you have it. I you know, I think
there's always going to be those debates that that rage on,
uh as it applies to who's deserving who got in.
I can recall when when Warren Satt was upset that
Michael Strahan got into the Hall of Fame. I mean,
there's just always going to be oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Old because he got in first over SAP or just
in general.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
No, Soap was already in. I believe. I just think
that he was bothered by the fact that he didn't
think that Michael Straighthand should get in. I mean, that's
if I recall it correctly. But yeah, I mean, you're
you're just always going to have got through career. Look,
I don't, I don't. I just give what I hear.
(41:21):
I don't. Yeah, I didn't make that one up. Lee,
you're looking it up? That Am I making that up?
Or is that the truth? I believe you now you're
telling the truth. I'm just like, what was the headline?
What was the headline? Uh?
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Well, you know, Sep did actually walk it back and
apologize to straight hand, I'll say that.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Okay, But in the initial what did he come out
and say, like this dude doesn't deserve to be in
the Hall of Fame. That's what he came out said.
I mean he said it in the media anyway, it
is what it is. I mean that these things happened,
you know, guy, there was a point in time. I
think Dion Sanders spoke out on it. Uh, there were
(42:00):
a few other guys that spoke out on it. No,
not on straight ahead, just spoke out in general on
them feeling like there were guys that were getting considered
or getting in that they didn't necessarily agree should have
been considered or should have been getting in.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
And here was s SEPs quote, sorry to cut you
off there. When you stack it up, he only had
four straight Pro Bowls and a mythical sack record.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Well, okay, if you take out the sack record, he's
still had twenty sacks that season. So it's let's not
act like he had a bad season. Look, it would
be interesting, LeVar if the Hall of Fame just became
players voting for players. So I think we have a
different result than the way it's done now. Even though
I think the process the way it's done now is fine,
(42:45):
it's solid. But if you just had players vote on it,
it'd be quite a different Hall of Fame possibly.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
Yeah, I what wholeheartedly, uh, I would wholeheartedly agree with that,
And that's I think that That's sometimes what guys kind
of allude to is why aren't players more involved in
that process?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I would I would be I wonder, yes.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Please, I think because we have biases on bias. So
I think that's and I think, but who doesn't, No,
of course, And I think the process the way it
is done now, they try their best to eliminate that, right,
because they have voters from all different regions or the
s fifty voters, and it's a comprehensive process to narrow
down the finalists. And there you know, you have to
(43:34):
present on the finalist, right, And so I think you
you just hope that that process doesn't allow bias it
and also the other way right, right like Warrens have
don't like white Australian who is clearly a Hall of Famer,
and players don't let him in because they don't like the.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Guy, right, And I mean, come on that that happens,
of course, be a first ballot Hall of Fame. Correct.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
I'm not disagreeing with with any of that. I'm just
saying this is my explanation for why it's done the
way it is. And here's another thing too. I mentioned
this all the time. We're probably like, what a couple
weeks away from those top one hundred NFL lists coming out,
or maybe it's alread happened I lost track of time.
Players don't really know who's in the NFL. Sometimes they
(44:16):
don't like players are not watching the game as close
as others are. Now now we know who the good
players are, though, that's the difference I think, right, we
know who the Hall of Fame player. I have played
with four Hall of famers in my mind for Juwis Peppers,
Adrian Peterson, Steve Smith, and I think Eli Manning should
be the Hall of fam It will be so we
(44:36):
know who those guys are. But NFL players are often
the best judge of who the best players in the
league arety given time because they're not paying attention to
the entire league the entire time. But I'm watching on
film offensive lineman and defensive lineman for the most part
during the season, I couldn't tell you who the best
corner is.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Why wouldn't it, Matt, I mean, but why shouldn't we
have guys that that's what you're paying attention to. You're
going to be an ex on what offensive and defense.
I said, I think Willie Anderson should be in. Does
my vote outweigh your vote for Darren Woodson. That's kind
of the question to see. But then it comes down
to like, for me, I paid attention to defensive lineman,
I paid attention to offensive line. There's there's like you
(45:17):
said to what applies to me is what I paid
attention to. I could tell you who I thought the
best running backs were when I played in the game,
and should they be in the Hall of Fame? You know?
And I could give them quick too, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
So it was interesting about running back position. I was
talking about this at this at the offensive line Masterminds.
I was at after Adrian Peterson will be in the
Hall of Fame. Derrick Henry I think will be in
the Hall of Fame if he continues at the pace
he's at right, I mean, he's incredible. That's it. Who
else at running back after Derrick Henry? Right now? Now
(45:52):
it's going to be the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Right, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Maybe Christian McCaffrey. I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Oh butcaffrey, okay, not yet.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
What is he? What is he like? What has he done?
He's definitely a fun back to watch. But what has
he done?
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, he's had two c he had. I mean, look
his total yards from scrimmage of him pretty excellent. But
what's his accolades he's made? Yeah, he has? No, he
has some All Pro teams. He's got one first team
All Pro, one second team All Pro.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
That's it. It's not bad. That's not bad. And what
what what? How long has his career been.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
It's only been six years?
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Six years two two two All pros and six years
is horrible. That's not not horrible. It's not Hall of Fame.
So that's what I'm saying. But Hall of Fame standard,
that's not that's not no no Pro or no Super Bowls.
Only only one first team All Pro, one first team
second team All Pro. He was injured for two of them. Yeah,
(46:56):
it doesn't the well he was injured doesn't. That doesn't
That doesn't matter. That doesn't add up. Like you can't say,
well I should I should be in the Hall of
Fame if I don't get injured. Well, I'm just saying
I feel the same way. I'm I'm never going to
you can never use that as an excuse like, oh,
well he was injured, like that doesn't matter play a
(47:16):
part in it.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
If I wasn't hurt.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Durability plays a part. Like guys like Sam Mills and
and guys that were like iron men, like London Fletcher,
they belong. Which I don't even think London Fletcher is
in the Hall of Fame yet. He's not.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
He's not in a he's barely eligible though, right because
he retired and oh he's eligible. Boy, now, yeah, he
retired in twenty thirteen and.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
His stats are as comparable to Ray Lewis's as you
could possibly get good.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
He did retire in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, it's just always going to be a big topic
because there's always you're always going to be able to
look at and pinpoint somebody that's tremendously deserve. I just
don't like getting into the topic of one is undeserving
while the other is. I just like to keep it
to who's deserving. If you got in, you got in.
I don't I don't ever want to take away from
(48:13):
what your accomplishment has led to you getting in, You
got in, You got in, and and God bless your
You're immortalized at the at the pro level.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
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Speaker 2 (00:13):
Jerry read one fifty Hey like then this is he
I'm done with sixty down the one with it a
cruise down the avenue. Good morning, good morning, good morning,
good morning, Happy Tuesday to everyone out there. This is
two pros and a cup of joe. Yeah, and you
(00:33):
know what We're coming live from the tyrack dot com studios.
Tyrack dot com will help you get there an unmatched selection, fast,
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(00:54):
So I've told you guys on Monday, Jonas is out.
He's he's on VAK for a week. Brady will be
back soon as we have said for for a few weeks.
And uh, my man, Jeff Schwartz, he's back in the
saddle with your boy. And Jeff, you made a Bowld
call yesterday and you said, well, this looks like fire firing. Fire.
(01:17):
I had no idea that that firing would actually take
place literally what less than twenty four hours of us
getting back on the air. So all of a sudden,
Northwestern we first of all, how are you doing? How
are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Jeff fantastic. I am doing great. Glad to be back
with you. It's good to it's it's it's fun to
fill in, you know, like get a day or two,
but a whole week is nice because you gotta get
this report going and like it's a good it's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
To be in for the week. Yeah, I'm with you. There,
I'm with you. Well, man, I couldn't thought of a
better person to be hanging out with for for this week.
So I appreciate you making yourself available. Lee. What do
we got detail wise here on the latest developments with
Northwestern Fire and Pat Fitzgerald.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Well, of course, yesterday we had talked a lot about
the allegations against Pat Fitzgerald, whether or not he knew
how much he knew about the hazing that involved sexual contact.
Yesterday we talked about it bordering on the line of
sexual assault. Well, after you know, seventeen years as a
head coach, five as an assistant for as a player,
Fitzgerald has now been fired.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Come Friday.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
He was of course suspended two weeks without pay, without
a notice. Afterwards and a further investigation, they decided to
fire Fitzgerald and now he is lawyered up saying he
has not been given any other reason, and the investigation
had found that he had still not confirmed whether or
not he was aware of the abuse.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It was inconclusive and in course of that is if
he knew what was going on in the locker room.
So that is where we stand right now. Okay, all right, Jeff,
what do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Oh man, I have I have lots of thoughts here.
It's it's you know, I he was gonna get fired.
This is gonna be a I says yesterday. So you
let's start with this. When you don't win, right, when
your talent outweighs your problem or problems, you typically lose
(03:25):
that job you're in, right, or you lose whatever relationship
you're in, or you lose any you know, something is
on the line, you're gonna lose that right when Now,
when your talent outweighs your problems, you typically keep your job. Right.
I mean, there's there's legitimate concern at Georgia for things
that are happening. They are they're two time champions, right,
You go a little bit of break. So when you
win one game last year, one one and eleven. Last
(03:47):
season they won the first game of the year, lost
eleven in a row. After that, they won three games
the previous year. So when you start losing, you you
don't get leewayh at all, especially with a with a
brand new president who has no association with you at all.
They have a new president from Oregon, and this was
gonna be the end result, LeVar Look. Hazing is a
(04:10):
is a broad term, right for a lot of things
that happened in a building, And for the most part,
hazing quotquote, hazing is something that's done as a bonding
between players on the team, right, And for the most
part it's harmless. Yeah, it might be expensive every now
and then to pay for a dinner, yeah it might.
It might not be nice for an older player to
(04:32):
yell at you to go do something for them.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You know, back in the day we saw hard knocks.
You know, the used to tie you to a pole,
right and pour water on you. Okay, yeah it's not
it's not fun for that hour you're on the pole,
But in the end, it's mostly harmless, right, And in
the end, it's mostly a bonding experience because I went
through it, and then the next guy went through it,
and next guy I went through it, and it feels
like a common thing we've all done together and we're
(04:56):
all part of the team. And especially in training camp,
it's a long time. Any camp, you're gonna have a
little bit of fun, right, And so for the most part,
things that you you people listening to this might think
is a little bit I don't know if I'd want
to do that in my job. We do it in
our job, and everything's fine. It's a bonding experience and
every no problems with it. So when I hear some
of the stories that were happening in Northwestern, it does
(05:20):
raise a Laura Bells because, laar that stuff that I
played in one college obviously, so did you. I played
on six NFL teams. Okay, now, at the end of
my time in twenty sixteen, there weren't as much quote
nquote hazing things that happened compared to when I was younger.
But like the Northwestern story went a little bit too far, right,
Like that's things you're like, oh, really they're doing that
(05:41):
in that locker room. And then the question is well,
how much did coach know?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And the reports are that there was a whiteboard in
the locker room listing out these hazing punishments, which is odd.
I don't know why that.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I mean, they you know, they do that whole we're
smart thing, so.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I guess, But so coach coach had to know, right
And and.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
The question is the whiteboard in the middle of the
locker room. The coach got to know.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
The questions like how much does a coach know in
a program. He's been there since two thousand and six, Okay,
he runs that entire building, all right, he should know
what's happening in his locker room. To this extent, this
is something that's happening year after year. He's gonna know
about it. He just is, Okay, it's happening in his
(06:31):
own locker room with his own players. He's gonna know
about it. And I know that he claims he doesn't
know about it. Maybe there's no evidence he actually didn't
know about it, because obviously that'd be hard to kind
of prove. But this, this was gonna happen. Once this
whole story came out, right, the student newspaper there did
a good job of all this. The one question I
do have, LeVar, I think it's worth is worth asking.
(06:52):
We don't have an answer for it, is why did this
way to come out till now? Was it the losing?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
What?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Were people tired of? A message? There? Where people over
the coach and just kind of this is the way
they're lashing out of him because he's again he's been
there to two thousand and six. I don't think that
hazing started yesterday, So why now do these reports come out?
It doesn't it doesn't invalidate the reports, doesn't make them
any less worse. But that's a it's a long time
(07:18):
to coach. And then now it comes out that there's
been this this hazing incident over year after year. There's
some issues with hair styles in the locker room. That's
dating back to two thousand and nine. I believe that report. So, uh,
that's the question. I think that's it's valid. It's why now.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I think it's a valid question. I think it's a
dangerous move. Again. One win team last year, three win
team the year before. But nonetheless, you have a team, Yeah,
you have a team. And here here's here's what I'm thinking.
All right, and in these scenarios. It is a very
(08:00):
difficult And listen, they're in the Big ten, so I
know they're aware of what took place at Penn State.
I get that schools are going to be very very stern,
very stringent, very very quick to handle things a certain
type of way, because you do not want to lose
the reputation of your school. You do not want to
(08:20):
lose the mystique, the trust, the cachet, whatever you know,
people may want to call it. You don't want to
lose that. And in Penn State, we did lose that.
Penn State. We were fighting for so long just to
be normal after everything that took place. And listen, bye bye,
(08:43):
I guess measurement what took place at Penn State way worse.
But with that being said, these are these are allegations.
These are claims that have sexual assault connected to them.
And so to me, and I'm not a lawyer and
I'm not into the legal deal, I just, you know,
(09:04):
as a novice, know what some of that means, some
of the terminology means. And my whole thing is when
this came about, learning about it, I would be curious
to know when was the first, like did do we
know when the investigation started, Lee, like, that would be
the first thing that I would be wanting to know,
(09:27):
because depending on when that investigation took place, then now
you have to start figuring out who's going to be
the coach of your team. Because here's my thing. The
one conclusion that I kind of came to with Joe
and with Jerry, and I'll say the same exact thing
as it applies to Pat Fitzgerald in this scenario is
(09:50):
as a father, which a head coach is a father.
If you want to go personal, if you want to
go business, the presidency of the company is the head
of that company. You don't get You don't get a
free pass for not knowing. You don't like as a father,
(10:13):
if my kids are are in the house doing things
that they shouldn't be doing, I don't get to say, oh, well,
I didn't know. I don't get to do that. I
don't get that free pass.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Lee.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
What you got, Well, the the anonymous complaint came in
late November early December last year, and the investigation was
publicly disclosed January of this year.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Okay, that's ample amount of time to come up with
an investigation conclusion before now have a person ready to
go that's going to coach this team and give these
kids the opportunity to measure and way out engage what
(10:56):
they want to do. I find this to be a
very unprofessional way of handling it, as it appears. I
think that they've put this this this group of young
men that are in that locker room, at least the
ones that are deserving of a fair opportunity to to
have their scholastic UH sports career go a certain type
(11:17):
of way at Northwestern. I believe they've been compromised and
and it appears to me it kind of comes across
to me as as more agenda driven than than actually
what took place itself.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, Laura recalled, they gave him a two weeks suspension
on Friday. Correct, So uh now, I do wonder how
much of this came from. Again, I mentioned that before
the president just got there in August. Okay, he was
from Oregon.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Okay, and that's fair. That's fair.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Maybe there was like okay, what's you know? Try Okay again,
I don't know this coach. I'm gonna go off with
the with the law firm that we hired, it said,
But to your point though about the Timmy of this.
You know, they tried to bury this right because they
treated they released the news on a Friday in sort
of a dead time in the calendar, right when we're
(12:08):
not really you know, a lot of us are on vacation,
we're not paying attention to as much news 're maybe
switching between new social media platforms at the moment, but
like there's it was a dead time. They give them
a two week suspension during right now in college football,
coaches are on vacation. They can't recruit now. They can
call in text, I believe, but they can't have visitors
(12:29):
on campus. It is a dead time in the sport
right now. And for them to give them a two
week suspension during the dead time of the year, I
think really angered a lot of people, and that kind
of led to more information coming out in the student newspaper.
If they had done it differently, Hey we're just spending
for two weeks a month dark the season. Maybe we
(12:52):
don't get to this point. I'm not saying this is
the wrong decision, but we might get to a different
point if it's taken more seriously. There's nothing that the
Northwestern got between now and yesterday. If it's any different.
It's not like they got any new information. Oh excuse me,
I'll take that back from the law firm they hired.
(13:13):
They got new information I think from the student newspaper
that was interviewing some of these players, so that that's new.
The law firm who they hired to do this investigation
isn't didn't get anything new over the weekend, and so
a I guess the question is why was this all
not disclosed the first time? Now, I guess the law
firm is just focusing on what's happening, what happened in
(13:33):
the locker room recently, not long time ago. But they
tried to not give them u punishment essentially, right. And
what has always surprised me about these big companies right
Northwestern in the end is you know the big company company,
they butchered these all the time, man Like they messed
for having like PR firms and your own PR people,
(13:57):
for having your own lawyers you're having. I was many
people that are in the building that have had long
careers in Northwestern an any company. Man, they butchered these
and they butcher these all the time. And your point, like,
now you enter a season where look, there might be
a lot of players on the team that, like Pat Fitzgerald,
(14:17):
I didn't really think anything was wrong, which is a
problem if this is if what that was happening was happening.
I questioned some of the players there for allowing this
to happen. And I don't know if you that would
have happened on teams I played on some of the
things that like we've been like come on, stop right,
like we're not doing those We're not hazing kids that way.
So even you have a new coach now before the season.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Starts, is it in a room. And if it's in
a room, it has to But he's just as much
a part of the situation as the head coach, right,
I mean that's right.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It's like you it's like you have to ideally, when
the coach is fired, right now, you hire from within.
I mean, who's gonna you can't hire someone you basically
if you hire coach, now, what say it's Jim Leonard, right,
former Wisconsin defensive coordator that's been linked to the job
very quickly, he can't do anything for the season right now,
you're basically just hiring someone to be a babysitter for
(15:09):
six months because training camp schedules already planned, planned, They've
already game plan for the first three or four games.
You know, everything's set in motion. You're basically hiring a
babysitter for six months.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Now.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Of course they can implement some things, I guess, but
ain't gonna be like your first team meeting is going
to be the day of training camp, like the first
time you meet your team. So I uh, you're right though,
the interim thing. If you're firing him because he knew,
someone in the building will probably also do. I would
even argue that the assistants probably.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Knew before the coach, and then that's their job. Yeah,
that's their job to know what's going on. So more importantly,
probably or most most specifically, probably your white trainers, your
weight room.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Got strength, Yeah, the strim coaches, the strength coaches, and
the equipment guy and.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
The equipment guys strength and equipment, those are the two
that should have known. And if you're well, we're up
on a break. But this one is kind of to
me at this point, knowing what has happened in the past,
how big of an impact Penn State had on what
happens in locker rooms and all of sports, all of
(16:21):
college sports, even with what happened with Michigan State with
the gymnast. To me, you just cannot be a staff
that just allows your players to run amuck in the
locker room, in the facilities. You just can't do it.
You can't let them do it. And I said this yesterday.
You can't let them do it in the dorm rooms.
(16:42):
You can't let them do it in the team apartments.
If anything, the only place that would would seem to
make sense where something like this could happen and you
not know about it is in their own personal digs,
if they have an apartment off campus that they're upperclassmen,
stuff like that. If inappropriate things are happening in a
place that is not governed by the school, then you
(17:03):
have a conversation. But if it's in your locker room,
if it's in anything that, if it's in a team facility,
if it's in a school facility, the school representatives should know.
They should know, and there is no excuse to say
I didn't know anymore. That doesn't exist anymore. And that's
just my take on it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
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on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
We've been talking a whole lot about Damian Lillard and
what could happen in the whole Miami situation. It's starting
to uh develop and unfold a little bit. The stories
are beginning to become a little bit more let's just say, detailed.
And it was interesting because Portland finally has has chimed in.
(17:58):
Here's Joe Cronin, uh, the GM of the Trail Blazers,
and what he had to say about the Damian Lillard situation.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
I think the teams that have ended up in the
most positive situation post trade have been the ones that
have been really diligent and taking their time and been
not been impulsive, or the teams that really kept their
urgency under control. So I think that's how my approach
is going to has been with this and will be
with this as we're going to be patient, We're going
(18:26):
to do what's best for our team, and we're gonna see,
you know, how this lands, and if it takes months,
it takes.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Months, Okay, I had my thoughts on it but what
you got, bro uh, I.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Mean there from from their perspective, there is no rush, right.
I think we it's very clear they're going to trade
Dame Loward. The draft just drafted Scoot Henderson, who has
played well in the NBA Summer League. I know it's
NBA Summer League. It's just a couple of games, but
you know he he basically takes the place of Dame
Loward and obviously not the same player yet maybe never
been the same player. But they you know, they they've
(18:59):
basically After's replacement, right, But he's right there. There is
no rush, right, LaVar, Like, you don't have to do
this today tomorrow. And the more time you do it,
the closer you get to training camp, you know, the
more squeeze it probably puts on another team, like the
Heat to give you what you want. Because the Portland
I think is in the end, I mean they're fine
with keeping them. I mean they don't they don't have
(19:21):
to train them. Must at the end of the world,
if they keep Dave Lillard and again rich is yesterday,
how many how many NBA players in our life that
have ever sat out like NFL players do every now
and then, which NFL players rarely do actually but like
actually like miss games because of contract issues or or
or or no one right, no one ever does that.
(19:44):
So Willard is not gonna sit out. And I just
think that Portland can take their time in doing this.
And it doesn't help it that Lillard's people have said
that he's only going to Miami if you're if you're
the Trailblazers, what does Tyler Hero do for you?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Really? Like you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Like it just it it. There's not ideal trade at
the moment with the Miami Heat that makes the you know,
the Blazers happy.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Here's my thing, I can't I know we have Lee
efforting to see if we could find any player who
has sat out based off of not wanting to play
for the team. I will say this, this is what
I do know. Players will sit out and be on
the sideline with soft tissue injuries that that they are
(20:33):
unable to overcome and be a part of playing with
with the team. We've seen extended amounts of times where
players have sat out due to air quotes injuries. Now,
with that being said, the NBA is one of those
those leagues where the players, the players union is the
(20:55):
strongest aspect of it. Yes, they're stronger than anything else,
and they pretty much have done an excellent job for
players dictating them having the upper hand and what's taking place.
So it seems to be a culture where players can
dictate what they want to dictate. Now hearing Cronin come
(21:17):
out and say, we're going to do what's best for
the team. Of course you're going to do what's best
for the team, but how long does that take? Right
and you're looking for value? Where does that value come from?
If Miami doesn't want to do the deal, and somebody else,
say two or three teams come to the table later
on down the line they want to do a deal
(21:39):
for Dame Lillard. I just wonder, knowing how players are
able to dictate so much, how that plays out. If
they trade Dame to a team that Dame didn't want
to go to, where does this go? Where are they
at if they keep them, if they don't get rid
of them at all, where are they at?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
The question I have with this too is the idea
that the people throw out there that the Pleasures owe
it to Dame Willard. Do they owe it to him
to find him the right situation.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
No, he said, we're going to do what's best for
the take.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Well, I know, but do you think they owe they
owe it to I don't think they owe it to him.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Your job is your job, man. Like you can you
can feel sentimentally speaking, that somebody could do something nice
like Mike did. Did the bulls oh? Michael Jordan? You know?
Did they? Well? They let Michael Jordan go.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I feel like after six championships, maybe owe him. Dam
Millard has zero.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
They showed Mike he did they did Mike s oh?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah? Does the mid season NBA tournament all make Dame
Lillard want to stay in Portland?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Like?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
What if the Blazers can win the mid season tournament?
Raise that banner? Does he stay in Portland? How about that?
We have no talkt about that. I don't get the
point of that. Honestly, are you Are you going to
watch the NBA in December now because of a midseason tournament?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
No? I won't because I mean, I don't know, I
don't know what what are the implications of who's your.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Squad, who's your squad, who's your NBA's team.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I'm not a well the Wizards because I'm a Washington guy.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Would would would would? Would you be happy if the
Wizards raised a mid season won the tournament championship banner?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No, it wouldn't matter.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
They're paying the players who win five hundred thousand dollars each.
So there's money involved in this. It's a lot of money.
That's a lot of money. I don't care if you make,
if you have that is a lot of money, a
lot of money. But the point of this, I think
is the it's to copy what they do in in
uh in the soccer world, they have the kind of
mid season tournament that that typically you know again, it's
(23:43):
it's because it's one game with you know, two powerhouses
that play each other. That that that they don't have
a player that feels a lot different than whatever this
is gonna be. And the NBA is desperately trying for
players to care about the regular season and to make
it more competitive. Because player, if I watch a fair
(24:06):
amount of NBA near the end of the season, and
then I watch the entire playoffs, I think NBA playoff
basketball is fabulous. But you can't convince me those are
the same sports that I see the week before the
playoffs and in the week of the playoffs. Right, there's
two different sports, and the NBA is trying desperately to
do something for players to care because you mentioned, you know,
you dame Lyric could just sit out during the season
(24:28):
or just go to a team he doesn't like and
not play. They're trying to make it where that where
players don't feel that way right, where they feel like
they have to play the regular season because it matters
a lot, and I just don't know if this is
the way to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
You know. Another thing that you start to think about
is by making the players care more, you make the
viewer you know, care more, you know, and you might
yeah with it, and you might be able to sell
more tickets. Like even like you think about March Madness,
you know, or you have a midseason Matt Well.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
March Madness is because it's a one game in elimination,
Like that's the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Wasn't this one game elimination in this tournament?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I think there's a pool play first and that's one
game elimination. But again, you know, you know, if they
did March Madison December, you'd be like this is kind
of weird, Like this is not I'm a Lakers fan. Okay,
I don't care about the missis and tournament. You mean,
I'm the actual championship. We don't care about this thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think it breaks it up though a little bit,
like it's a long season, right Like for football, we
we don't have to do this because we don't have
a very long season. Those seasons are there's a lot
of games for in the NBA and then basketball, so well.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
This is added. This is adding games.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
But but what I'm saying is, but maybe it makes it.
It breaks it up in a way where it creates
a level of excitement for like you said, for the players,
because it's kind of like a breakaway from from what
the norm is, the monotony of going through the entire season.
I mean, it could generate some excitement, It could generate
some viewership, some participate, a patient I can see it.
(26:02):
But again back to the original point, No, I don't
see that being something that is attractive to Damian Lillard.
And if Portland were able to win one of those
those tournaments or whatever, I think Dame wants to have
a real opportunity to win a championship. I continue to
believe that Dame feels as though if he was in
that that this this past year's NBA Finals with the
(26:25):
Miami Heat, they win that that series, and so he's
trying to get there. He feels like he's maybe that
missing link to the Miami Heat. And who wouldn't want
to go play for the Miami Heat, right if you could? Oh?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So I again, I think that the complexity of this
situation is one the Portland Trailblazers are going to do
what's best for Portland. So if they're going to do
what's best for Portland, and Dame is perceivably going to
do what's best for Dame now and while people will say, okay,
well they this is why they owe it to Dame
(26:57):
is because Dame has been loyal to Portland. Well, Portland's
been loyal to paying him his paycheck, so he's been
loyal to play for them. They've been loyal to paying
him his paycheck. Dame doesn't want to be there anymore,
that's fine, but we're still going to do what's best
for the team. So perceivably Dame is going to do
what's best for Dame as well, And I just don't
(27:18):
know where that ends. I think this could turn ugly
before it gets better, but there will be a trade
that takes place. But then does it get uglier from there?
Does it get better for Dame? I mean it's hard
to say it.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I mean, obviously, if he goes to the Heat and
they would a championship, it all worked out. If he doesn't,
then it was all or not. I just don't know
if is Dame plus Jummy, Butler and Bam, is that
a championship?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's a big three? That's that is a big three?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Is that? I would say that that probably puts him
a head in the East over Boston over Milwaukee as
far as a big three at least, right Yeah, obviously
with Janni's healthy, Milwaukee's team, so I get the alert
plus two. I think for Lillard, you know, someone who
played football in Oregon for four years, you know there's
(28:10):
a lifestyle difference in Miami than Portland, which I think
will be a nice change for him. Also, you know
free agents want to go to Miami, all right. You're
not getting these guys in Portland, so you have different
avenues to win. We're in Portland. You have to just
draft and develop because you're not getting big stars to
go there. We know over the years, how many big
(28:32):
stars have gotten in to Miami. I mean, obviously Shack
went there, right, he won a championship. Lebron and Chris
Bosh went there and they won championships. Jimmy Butler is
now there, so it gives you an easier way to
win and build your roster being in Miami than it
does anywhere else. And he's right, Look, the teams that
have the opportunity to trade for him, Miami is probably
(28:56):
the best opportunity from to win. And he said, I'm
not play anywhere else, so you better trade me Miami
or I guess I'll sit out call his bluff. NBA
teams Lavarn't you know this man? They don't call players
bluff story often. The NFL does all the time. Right, Oh, okay, okay,
go ahead, yeah, all right, you know you don't want
(29:19):
to make money. Oh, i'd be my guest. I So
I'm curious to see if an NBA team in Portland
kind of finally calls the players bluff or they you know,
they trade him somewhere else and he doesn't playing, he
doesn't play, which I I guess i'd be fasting right.
No one ever does in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
They're not going to call his bluff. They're gonna figure
it out and they're going to get rid of them.
But the problem is for for Dame Lillard, what happens
with the moving him, moving him on? Is he going
to end up in Miami or is it going to
be the way? Yes, we'll see. I think that that's
going to be the biggest, the biggest piece of this.
Where does he land? Not not if he lands, but
(29:56):
where does he lands?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Be sure to catch live editions of two pro was
in a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington,
and Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
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Would mean a lot to have you join us on
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Speaker 2 (30:37):
Jeff my guy, Taro Owens. You know, he has some
interesting things to say. And I think this is was
this from his show or did he do an interview?
This was from the Get Your Popcorn Ready podcast exactly.
So it came from that the Get You Your Popcorn
Ready podcast, which is Matthew Hatchett and Taro Owens. And
(30:59):
I don't know that I disagree with what he has
to say, but let's let's hear what he has to say.
Let's hear him outain let's go from there.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
I'm thinking about a guy like Darren Woodson that's not
in the Hall of Fame, but John Lynch is that.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
How do you the bound it? Hell?
Speaker 7 (31:14):
Do you quantify that? I want you to go research
maybe when you come back, revisit it, go research and
see what Darren Woodson is doing.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (31:21):
Granted, yeah, John Lynch did some great things here and now,
But I ain't.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
No, I'm not looking for John You get him say,
I wasn't.
Speaker 7 (31:28):
Just because a guy starts on the defense and he's
the number one guy back there in the secondary for
that defense.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
For me, overall totality of it.
Speaker 7 (31:36):
That doesn't mean like, Okay, he was he's impacting what
I'm going to be doing. Yeah, he has to be
accounted for for that day because you gained planning.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
But I'm not. I wasn't. I wasn't scared of forty seven,
all right. So first of all, I don't believe in
justifying one thing or disqualifying one thing to justify the other. Right,
I believe John Lynch is great now was his greatness Like,
he's a hell of a player, and he's a Hall
of Fame player. In my book, I think he is
a Hall of Famer. However, I do not I do
(32:08):
not disagree with him in saying that Darren Woodson should
be a guy that's in the Hall of Fame. Now,
before you, before you give your opinion, Jeff, I just
wanted lead to give our listening audience just an idea
of the comp between between Darren Woodson and John Lynch.
(32:28):
John Lynch being in the Pro Bowl, in the Hall
of Fame, Darren Woodson not being in the Hall of Fame.
So let's start with Super Bowls. How many Super Bowls
does Darren Woodson have? Woodson has three Super Bowls. How
many does John Lynch have only the one? Okay? What
about Pro Bowls? Pro Bowls?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
I know Darren Woodson has a has five Pro Bowls,
but Lynch does have nine Pro Bowls.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Okay, that's a big one right there. Okay, what about
All pros? And this is the one right here? All
Pro agreed? Right? And Woodson has four All Pro First Team,
second team first.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Team while John Lynch has two first team and two
second team All pros.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
All right, so there you go.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I mean, the resume is better for Woodson.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
It's a better resume for Darren Woodson. So then now
the conversation becomes from a Hall of famer who made
this this statement. By the way, Tarrell Owens is a
Hall of Famer. What's your take, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like, well, Watson should be in, right,
I mean it seems pretty simple. I don't know why
he's not. I think that sometimes the Hall of Fame
voters often look at a position and just sort of
take one guy at a time there, right, and it's like, okay, well,
you know John Lynch is now in, so we're now
off of other players. I know this feels this way
(33:41):
for offensive lineman where it's like, Okay, they've chosen you know,
one offensive lineman, we're gonna wait now to choose someone else.
So maybe there's a bias and the positions. I think
the question you know, might have to be asked about again,
like the year and who gets in who doesn't. But
it sounds like what it should be in a We
know at times too that this can be a little
bit of a popularity contest, right, And I don't know
(34:05):
if that's one of the reasons why, but I think
I'm with t O here. I mean, look, I didn't
play very much against these two players. I know you
probably have more experience playing in that you know in
that time than I do. But it sounds like what's
in should should be in. And there's a lot of
arguments for plenty of guys to be in, right there is,
And I think that sometimes again it's a popularity contest,
which we know it is, and it's unfair to a
(34:31):
lot of players. But you look at look the NFL,
that's five guys in every year, right, and so you
have to look at at the kind of the finalists
each year and think, okay, what's in better than to
your point. You shouldn't throw John Lynch out right, But
is what's in better than the finalist for this given year.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, I mean, for me again, there are some guys
that should be shoe wins to the Hall of Fame.
But I'm not a voter. I don't know. I don't
I've never been really fully clear on the criteria of
what you know constitutes you getting in. Again, the one,
(35:13):
the number one guy that I always am. There's there's
two that I really feel should be in that I
always say, well, there's three actually, and I always start
off with Brian Mitchell. I do not understand why Brian Mitchell,
for the life of me, with all if you look
at his stat line, and his stat line isn't just
(35:35):
it's not hitting stats. It's not like, oh he's got
more you know, kickoff return yards or more punk return
yards by like Miles Yeah on on anyone you know
that's ever played and he's not in the league. He
was impacting games, he was winning, they were winning Super
Bowls because of having that that presence that Brian Mitchell
(35:59):
brought to the Washington football team. I just to me,
that one is mystifying. Yeah, they took a long time
to put art Monk in and that was that was
very strange to me.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Go ahead, god okay. So twenty twenty three, the finalists
are fifteen finalist Darren Woodson was one of the fifteen,
and the five that were chosen where Joe Thomas, Zach
Thomas linebacker, Zach Thomas, DeMarcus where one of the best
sac men in NFL history, Dale Reeves, and Ronde Barber. Okay,
is what should what'son being over any of those five?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
All right, so now here's what's interesting about that. My
gud I does up on game with me on Saturdays. TJ.
Hitchman Zada said that Ronde Barber doesn't belong in the
Hall of Fame over some of these guys that are
getting passed up.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I originally tweeted out something like, why is Rnde Barber
he was in the Hall of Fame over someone else?
I think I turned that out and people came out,
came at me, and he kind of do some some
research on this. Ronnie Barber was pretty freaking good.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Ronde Barber was a beast now five All pros.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
He had forty seven interceptions, fourteen touchdowns, and fifteen force fumbles.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
At corner.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
It's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
That's pretty dang good.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
He also twenty eight sacks.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
That's pretty dang good. Now, but does that compare does
that compare to Darren Woodson?
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Well, the different positions, right, So yes, very true. You
can't say that. So I mean Jared Woolson had seven
had seven, had eleven sacks, twenty three interceptions at safety
and seventeen force fumbles, So really good numbers. Obviously, Yeah,
he was. Again he was. He made more First team
(37:49):
All pros than Ronde Barber did, but he made less
Pro Ill pros in general, same amount of Pro Bowls.
But what often gets players that nod Super Bowl championships? Right,
he has three?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Right has one?
Speaker 3 (38:05):
So again, Woodson, I think we all agree should be in.
The question again becomes is he in in? Who is
he in over? In a given year? And last year?
I feel like those were pretty deserving, you know, pretty
deserving players to be the Hall of Fame. Uh, These
guys I think should be in too. I think will
(38:25):
Willie Anderson should be in.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Ye, he's always a big one.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
He's like he was the best right tackle in the
NFL for many many years. We just don't give right, tackles.
I think Lane Johnson might be the first one who
gets in. I hope what we gets it, I really do.
But I think Layne might be the first one who's
primarily right tackle NFL. So yeah, I I he should
be in. He should be in.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
But yes, Lester Hayes, give us his stat line.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
He's got two Super Bowls, he was a defensive Player
of the Year, he was on All Pro nineteen eighty,
led the league and interceptions that year, five times second
team All Pro, five Pro Bowls.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, I want to make a quick quick question. Jackie
Slater played right tackle. I want to make sure he
was get some proper love for being the right tackle
of the Hall of Fame. I made a people can
come after me that I don't know my offense alignment.
He played right tackle in the NFL. Who'd you mentioned?
Is having five All pros Lester Hayes, Lester, he's now
he would be in the in the Veterans committee group
(39:29):
right by now?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah? By now? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah. I look. I the NFL Hall of Fame has
five inductees every year. Obviously they have some some veteran class,
and we know there was a backlog in twenty twenty
where they added a bunch of contributors and coaches and whatnot.
It's five for a reason, right, it's hard to get in.
You know, Baseball does a vote, right, if you're I
think it's eighty percent, five percent of the vote, you're in.
(39:56):
I don't know what the NBA Hall of fa it's
not even Ammy Hall of Fame. It's prob Basketball Hall
of Fame. They let anyone in to that one. So
there's an exclusive club, right, five a year. It's it's hard,
it's hard to get in. There's guy which I mentioned this,
Guys LeVar you think should be in, I think should
be in. Carrows I think should be in. But it's
it's hard to get in. That's that's why I like
(40:18):
the n f Hall of Fame because they do that, right.
They it's they limit the class and they say, look,
these are five guys over living in every year, and
some years there's more than five that should be in.
Some years there's there's more, there's less than five. I
hope Putson gets in as soon as possible. He definitely
deserves it. When you compare his numbers and his play
to other guys who are in the Hall, of Fame
as well.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Oh, there you have it. I you know, I think
there's always going to be those debates that that rage on,
uh as it applies to who's deserving who got in.
I can recall when when Warren Satt was upset that
Michael Strahan got into the Hall of Fame. I mean,
there's just always going to be oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Old because he got in first over SAP or just
in general.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
No, Soap was already in. I believe. I just think
that he was bothered by the fact that he didn't
think that Michael Straighthand should get in. I mean, that's
if I recall it correctly. But yeah, I mean, you're
you're just always going to have got through career. Look,
I don't, I don't. I just give what I hear.
(41:21):
I don't. Yeah, I didn't make that one up. Lee,
you're looking it up? That Am I making that up?
Or is that the truth? I believe you now you're
telling the truth. I'm just like, what was the headline?
What was the headline? Uh?
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Well, you know, Sep did actually walk it back and
apologize to straight hand, I'll say that.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Okay, But in the initial what did he come out
and say, like this dude doesn't deserve to be in
the Hall of Fame. That's what he came out said.
I mean he said it in the media anyway, it
is what it is. I mean that these things happened,
you know, guy, there was a point in time. I
think Dion Sanders spoke out on it. Uh, there were
(42:00):
a few other guys that spoke out on it. No,
not on straight ahead, just spoke out in general on
them feeling like there were guys that were getting considered
or getting in that they didn't necessarily agree should have
been considered or should have been getting in.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
And here was s SEPs quote, sorry to cut you
off there. When you stack it up, he only had
four straight Pro Bowls and a mythical sack record.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Well, okay, if you take out the sack record, he's
still had twenty sacks that season. So it's let's not
act like he had a bad season. Look, it would
be interesting, LeVar if the Hall of Fame just became
players voting for players. So I think we have a
different result than the way it's done now. Even though
I think the process the way it's done now is fine,
(42:45):
it's solid. But if you just had players vote on it,
it'd be quite a different Hall of Fame possibly.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
Yeah, I what wholeheartedly, uh, I would wholeheartedly agree with that,
And that's I think that That's sometimes what guys kind
of allude to is why aren't players more involved in
that process?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I would I would be I wonder, yes.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Please, I think because we have biases on bias. So
I think that's and I think, but who doesn't, No,
of course, And I think the process the way it
is done now, they try their best to eliminate that, right,
because they have voters from all different regions or the
s fifty voters, and it's a comprehensive process to narrow
down the finalists. And there you know, you have to
(43:34):
present on the finalist, right, And so I think you
you just hope that that process doesn't allow bias it
and also the other way right, right like Warrens have
don't like white Australian who is clearly a Hall of Famer,
and players don't let him in because they don't like the.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Guy, right, And I mean, come on that that happens,
of course, be a first ballot Hall of Fame. Correct.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
I'm not disagreeing with with any of that. I'm just
saying this is my explanation for why it's done the
way it is. And here's another thing too. I mentioned
this all the time. We're probably like, what a couple
weeks away from those top one hundred NFL lists coming out,
or maybe it's alread happened I lost track of time.
Players don't really know who's in the NFL. Sometimes they
(44:16):
don't like players are not watching the game as close
as others are. Now now we know who the good
players are, though, that's the difference I think, right, we
know who the Hall of Fame player. I have played
with four Hall of famers in my mind for Juwis Peppers,
Adrian Peterson, Steve Smith, and I think Eli Manning should
be the Hall of fam It will be so we
(44:36):
know who those guys are. But NFL players are often
the best judge of who the best players in the
league arety given time because they're not paying attention to
the entire league the entire time. But I'm watching on
film offensive lineman and defensive lineman for the most part
during the season, I couldn't tell you who the best
corner is.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Why wouldn't it, Matt, I mean, but why shouldn't we
have guys that that's what you're paying attention to. You're
going to be an ex on what offensive and defense.
I said, I think Willie Anderson should be in. Does
my vote outweigh your vote for Darren Woodson. That's kind
of the question to see. But then it comes down
to like, for me, I paid attention to defensive lineman,
I paid attention to offensive line. There's there's like you
(45:17):
said to what applies to me is what I paid
attention to. I could tell you who I thought the
best running backs were when I played in the game,
and should they be in the Hall of Fame? You know?
And I could give them quick too, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
So it was interesting about running back position. I was
talking about this at this at the offensive line Masterminds.
I was at after Adrian Peterson will be in the
Hall of Fame. Derrick Henry I think will be in
the Hall of Fame if he continues at the pace
he's at right, I mean, he's incredible. That's it. Who
else at running back after Derrick Henry? Right now? Now
(45:52):
it's going to be the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Right, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Maybe Christian McCaffrey. I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Oh butcaffrey, okay, not yet.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
What is he? What is he like? What has he done?
He's definitely a fun back to watch. But what has
he done?
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, he's had two c he had. I mean, look
his total yards from scrimmage of him pretty excellent. But
what's his accolades he's made? Yeah, he has? No, he
has some All Pro teams. He's got one first team
All Pro, one second team All Pro.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
That's it. It's not bad. That's not bad. And what
what what? How long has his career been.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
It's only been six years?
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Six years two two two All pros and six years
is horrible. That's not not horrible. It's not Hall of Fame.
So that's what I'm saying. But Hall of Fame standard,
that's not that's not no no Pro or no Super Bowls.
Only only one first team All Pro, one first team
second team All Pro. He was injured for two of them. Yeah,
(46:56):
it doesn't the well he was injured doesn't. That doesn't
That doesn't matter. That doesn't add up. Like you can't say,
well I should I should be in the Hall of
Fame if I don't get injured. Well, I'm just saying
I feel the same way. I'm I'm never going to
you can never use that as an excuse like, oh,
well he was injured, like that doesn't matter play a
(47:16):
part in it.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
If I wasn't hurt.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Durability plays a part. Like guys like Sam Mills and
and guys that were like iron men, like London Fletcher,
they belong. Which I don't even think London Fletcher is
in the Hall of Fame yet. He's not.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
He's not in a he's barely eligible though, right because
he retired and oh he's eligible. Boy, now, yeah, he
retired in twenty thirteen and.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
His stats are as comparable to Ray Lewis's as you
could possibly get good.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
He did retire in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, it's just always going to be a big topic
because there's always you're always going to be able to
look at and pinpoint somebody that's tremendously deserve. I just
don't like getting into the topic of one is undeserving
while the other is. I just like to keep it
to who's deserving. If you got in, you got in.
I don't I don't ever want to take away from
(48:13):
what your accomplishment has led to you getting in, You
got in, You got in, and and God bless your
You're immortalized at the at the pro level.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
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