July 14, 2023 • 38 mins
Today on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Josh Jacobs is the latest running back to threaten a holdout. The Niners could be the best roster ever to win a Super Bowl without an elite QB and DK Metcalf lists Jerry Rice 4th on his all-time WR list
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the fast of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Rings and Rady Winn and Jonas Knox
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is an interesting time in football because we continue
to have the conversations about running backs, and the latest
conversation is Josh Jacob Latest is running well threatening to
not be running. He's actually there's there's actually reports that
(00:34):
he may hold out into training camp. We've had this
conversation as it applies to say Kwon Barkley. This seems
to be where things are heading to, which is a
holdout situation. Listen, I don't know why anyone would get
(00:57):
up in arms about a holdout situation. Hold Out happen
all the time. They are age old tactics and negotiating.
These are negotiations. I just I would ask you this
should should this be cautious approaching holding out for the
(01:17):
running backs? Because it just does not seem as though
that that these scenarios such like I guess what what
Ezekiel Elliott did when when he was not in camp
and ended up getting his deal. Do you see it
playing out the way it did for for Ezekiel Elliott?
Or is this like kind of more of a volatile
(01:40):
situation for Josh Jacobs and Saquon Barkley.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, it's interesting, you know, Jacobs is almost more of
kind of part of the Raiders' offense, and Saquon is
for the Giants, I think because of really the core
situation and the offensive scheme in in Vegas right now.
(02:06):
So it's kind of fascinating to see what the Raiders
would do without him. You know, a lot of they're
big plays last year where Josh Jacobs runs, right, That's
kind of what it was. So it's kind of curious
to see what they would do if he held out.
But the tough part about it is that the Raiders
(02:27):
aren't going to be very good, And if you're them,
I understand not wanting to give Jacobs a lot of
money because if you tie up money in a running
back like that and the rest of your roster isn't
very good, you could use that money elsewhere to make
your roster better, right LeVar, So I understand that there
is a a little bit of trepidation and saying, hey,
(02:51):
we're going to pay this guy a lot of money
because we need to spend the money elsewhere, honestly, right,
we gotta spend the money somewhere else because we just
we we don't have the roster to afford paying paying
a running back that much money.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Wow. If I mean he's he's outside of Max Crosby,
he's their best player. Devant, they got Davante, they got
Davante Adams. I digress. They got Davante Adams outside of
those two, he's their best player. Is there anybody else
(03:26):
of a business? eBay uh? I think it's imperative. And
and listen, if you look at again, if you look
at the correlations of their production. And when I say there,
I'm talking like I said, I continue to kind of
put Saquon into the conversation. I would I would argue
(03:48):
that that they're equally important to their teams. I would.
I would argue that if you look at the win
percentages of the New York Giants when Saquon is playing,
when Saquon is productive versus when he's not, it's a
tremendous difference. And I think there's a tremendous difference when
(04:09):
when Jacobs is not at the top of his game
for the Raiders. So to me, if I'm the team
and I'm looking at and that has to be the
reason why they're so stadfast on wanting to get paid
is because you have to do the homework and know
that the winning percentages are in favor of your team
(04:31):
when this particular player is on the field and is
being productive. I just don't understand thinking that you could
just use somebody else to get through and be okay.
Or you're basically saying it costs too much for us
to want to win at that number. I mean, is
that safe to say it? Basically we're not willing, We're
(04:53):
uncomfortable paying this player this position that much money, and
we're okay with our team actually possibly losing because we
don't have this guy's services. I mean, it's got to
be one of the two.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah. I think for the Raiders, they look at this
and say, hey, man, like we just we if we're
trying to build our roster up and we have a
lot of holes on our roster, is spending all that
money on a running back can to help us be
that much better?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We saw last year how good they were. They won
six games with Josh Jacobs. Right, the Giants made the
playoffs so far, Look, you can make the argument that
Saquon was more important to them because of that factor.
So if you're the Raiders, are you saying, hey, we're
gonna pay a guy at this position, a running back
(05:45):
all that money to then win six games? I think
they're looking at that and saying, hey, we just na
we're not doing that. I think that's where the Raiders might.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Be thinking, well, one thing is right wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
But it does feel like that's sort of their line
of thinking. You know, like we it didn't really work
for us last year, so why are we doing it again?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, my whole thing is he did his job. Like
the reason why you're paying him is because he was
productive for you as as a player, is what I
would say. I mean, I always felt as though when
you when you look at when you look at things
(06:29):
at its bear's minimum. If a guy comes out and
he does his job, he does his job, then all
of the the you know, all the things that we
use as evidence or information, it's like, oh, but did
he do it the year before? Oh well did he
stay healthy the year before the year before that? And
(06:50):
it's like for me, when when you really think about
doing your job, you're based your your your your production
and your SSS level in the like now in the
now is what's most important, right. I mean, it just
really is because I start to think, like in pro
(07:11):
sports and then football, when we start to talk about
should you pay a player, it's like immediately the conversation
goes down the road where you're trying to look at
the total body of work, which you should look at
a total body of work. But if a person comes
into a season and they played like they say, okay,
this is a proven year on their contract. You see
(07:32):
it happen in basketball. You see it happen in baseball.
If it's a proven year and you have a ton
of home runs, or you pitch really well, you know,
or you're playing shortstop really well, whatever it may be,
you get compensated with a very very large contract. When
they do that, Josh Jacobs and sa Kwon Barkley were
(07:57):
improve it years and they played well, they perform well,
it's a what have you done for me lately? League?
If they get these contracts, you know what they're gonna do.
People are going to look at them and be like,
you should be playing better because you got that contract.
They're not talking about, well you played well enough to
get it, or you didn't, or you played well enough,
but you didn't get it. They're going to be looking
at and they're going to say, what are you doing
(08:19):
right now? What are you doing this Sunday? And I
feel like if you're judging paying these guys off of
what they have done for you now, like what has
happened now? Both of them have been wildly you know,
productive during the course of the last season. Yeah, so
I don't understand what the problem is, Like, Okay, can
(08:39):
you get to fifteen? Say Kuan's asking for sixty. I
don't know what Josh Jacobs is asking for, but if
sixteen is the number because of McCaffrey, you can't find
your way to somewhere around fifteen or so. So to
keep these guys happy, I just your team stinks. They
do the Raiders, and we don't know what the Giants
(09:02):
will be this year, don't know. But to say, well,
we're not going to pay you because we stink is
to say, well, one of our more productive guys on
the team, one the I think he won the Pepsi
Ground Award, that he did so well as a running
back last year this past season, Why are you not
going to reward your players? So now you're sending a
(09:23):
message through your locker room to the rest of the
players that as it applies to market value. At my position,
if I if I have the best of years, it
doesn't matter. It's just going to be dictated off of
if if the organization feels like they want to pay
me or not, Like, is that the message you want
to send to the rest of your your organization, Like
(09:43):
if they could do it to Josh Jacobs, they definitely
damn sure could do it to me, you know what
I mean. I just think that's a bad that's a
bad message.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's a bad message that that's the way
you might operate as a franchise. But sometimes looking from
the franchise perspective, that's just the way business has to
get done. Right. We can't we can't over invest in
(10:13):
a player because other players might think like, we don't
you know, we don't We might not pay them, right.
They paid Max Crosby, right, and I'm not this. I
don't think this front office did. But they have paid players,
but maybe they don't feel like John Jacobs is worth
all that money. Again, I go back to the example,
like who is a quarter, who's a running back? On
(10:33):
a second contract where you're like, you know what, that
paid off with wins and losses for my team, Like
I got more wins because that guy's is it was
paid a lot of money, and our team is now,
you know, much better for the future. We're set up
well for the future because that running back got paid
(10:54):
so much money. Hard to find many examples of the
NFL for that. I think teams look at that and say, hey,
that's gonna be our blueprint. I'm not going to do that.
You get caught in a situation where we pay someone
too much money then have to release them and it
has not worked out. We should have spent money elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
See, I feel like you could say that about every
position outside of quarterback, you know what I mean. Like
it's almost like you could in theory, you could say
that about every other position, Like you could find somebody
to say that about in at at the receiver's position,
you can find somebody for damn sure. On online line.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Most of the time, the difference I think is the levars.
A lot of times those players sign with their own
team versus as a free agent, and I think that,
like it's hard to differentiate sometimes some of those big
contracts because I mean you can make an argument that
you know, a couple of years ago, you know, Mike
Evans was an important resign for the Bucks, right and
(11:53):
and uh you know as someone who helped Tom Brady
out right as a wide receiver. Like there's there's examples
of that. The Chiefs just kind of blue the out
of the water last year because they used a bunch
of you know what, but you know, look him. But
you know they signed juju. It was a small contract obviously,
I mean, yeah, it is, but I think often if
it's a line that proven that if you pay those
(12:14):
guys that you have success.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I just I just think that it's I'm not gonna
say it's dangerous because it is. It is business, and
this is always happened that they will get I believe
they will get deals done, to be honest, Like if
if trends served correctly, they'll get a deal done. Like
it we've only seen it happen pretty much. Would with
uh Le'Veon Bell and Pittsburgh, they just they don't pay.
(12:40):
They just don't pay. In Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
If that Le'Veon Bell, I mean he'd been s downing
fifteen million dollars. Man, it's nuts. That is nuts. I think.
I think in the end, you're right. The deals will
get done because if you look at at the running
back position, you look at Saque who's been injured throughout
his career. I look up Josh Jake. I don't think
he's been as as hurt. Let's say that you can
play one year under this franchise tack of ten million
(13:07):
or kind of get a two year deal worth you
know thirty you know to twenty six million, right, so
that's the thirteen million dollars a year. I would take
that deal, right, the two year deal. That's a great
deal for running back because you're getting you're getting twenty
six million dollars over two years. Maybe longer they'd be
a four year deal, but you know, they give them,
you know, twenty six over two it's a lot of money,
(13:27):
and it's better than a franchise tag, right, And it's
better than getting hurt during your on your franchise tag year.
You know, quarterbacks are the only ones that really can
can sort of play that franchise you know, year out
and not really worry about eight injuries. It's hard to
other positions. That's why a lot of guys end up
(13:47):
signing because playing that that tag out and other positions
that the injury risk is really difficult. He worked out,
you know, it worked for Orlando Brown, he played last
year er tag and got a big deal in the Bengals.
But a lot of times it's hard for players to
take that risk of playing that one year.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
On the tag.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
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Speaker 2 (14:18):
Can the forty nine ers be the best roster ever
to win a Super Bowl without an elite quarterback? I
find it to be pretty pretty interesting just based upon
the thought process too. Two teams come to mind very
very quickly, but there there are three obviously that you
(14:41):
could throw out there. The first one that comes to
mind is the what is the eighty five Beers?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That one. And while I think McMahon was a pretty
cool personality, I think we would all agree that it
was the defense that was yeah, the catalysts of that team,
and you had some pretty pretty impressive players on that
offense as well. But then the next one, the second well,
(15:12):
the second one that comes to mind is obviously the
two thousand the Ravens. That Ravens team was yep. I mean,
that's just phenomenon. It's hard to say it's the most
phenomenal defense, but it just kind of seems like it's
(15:33):
possibly the most phenomenal defense ever in the history of
the game. I don't know, some would debate it. And
then there's the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, of course, and that
was two thousand and what two three two, okay, yeah,
and that was so Brad Johnson was the quarterback for
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but he was a really, really
(15:55):
fine quarterback at the pro level. And then you had
Trend Dilfer and Baltimore as the quarterback that year. And
I don't think anyone would make the mistake of thinking
that Trent Dilford was a franchise quarterback in this league.
So now they're having the conversations about that possibly being
(16:17):
the scenario for this upcoming year's forty nine ers, that
they could actually win a Super Bowl and we don't
even know who their quarterback is coming into the season.
I find that difficult. But what's your thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think the question is the more are the Niners
the best rosters that ever win a Super Bowl? Like
not even that, like the best roster with the worst
corpback situation ever. Think about this they have Okay, they
have the best leff tackling football, yes, the best pass
rusher in football, right, the best linebacker in football, ye,
(16:57):
Possibly the best running back in football, ye, the best
slash guy kind of like a Deebo Samuel right, kind
of a combination running back ish wide receiver right. Best. Last, Okay,
they have one of the better safeties in football in Hafungo.
Very young safety, but very good. Right, he's gonna be
like he's a possible All Pro this year. Think about that.
They have the best player at multiple high leverage, high
(17:19):
leverage positions right off the tackle, pass rusher, and yet
it's like, well, yeah, they don't have a quarterback. I
don't think it'd win a Super Bowl. Like it's nuts, right,
I can't recall even the teams that you just mentioned
didn't have the best player every position, like like like
the Niners, Dude, Baltimore Ravens were close, right, Ougden ray
(17:41):
Lewis ed reed like you know, they.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Were closer than but they didn't really have it on offense, right,
they had Shannon Sharp at tight end, he's older. You know,
they had what what was it would have been Travis
Taylor and uh who would have been the receivers on
that that team. Jermaine Lewis was was like the punt earner,
but they didn't have last was pretty good though at
(18:04):
the receiver's position. They didn't have I think was Derek
Mason on that team. I don't know that he was.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
They didn't have a.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Debo, but they had They had Jamal Lewis in the backfield,
I do know that, but they you know, yeah, they
didn't have a different era.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
It was also a different era like you US didn't have,
like you know, it was a it was a run
first era.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It was a run first era, but they were able
to run first through the AFC North. Yeah, and now
that's that's difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
And then the Hall of Fame left tackle, which obviously
the forty nine ers will have as well, So you know,
it's sort of sort of the same thing. It's close,
it's close enough for the discussion, but nonetheless it's pretty wild, right,
Like the Niners have this whole offense and defense that's
so elite, and yet it's they have either Brock pretty
off an injury, and I think brock party will not
play as well as your guys. Look, there's one Tom Brady. Okay,
(18:55):
that's it. We need to stop comparing every late round
draft pick who plays decently well with Tom Brady. Right,
he's not gonna be Tom Brady. All right, there's one
Tom Brady. Tom Brady is coming gone. He's retired. Now,
that's it. There's no there's no more tom Brady's. So
I think it's it's unfair to brock Prey to compare
him to Tom Brady. Then you have Trey Lance, who
(19:15):
you know, the potential's there and we all agree, but
we have not seen him play long enough to even
determine if he if he can do it. And then
Sam Darnold, who I think anyone in this offense will
will play well as we see with with any quarterback
who's had in this offense. But you know, Donald's obviously
not the answer to a long term success, you know,
you know in the NFC conference, that's it, Like they
(19:36):
don't have and Trey Lance are supposed to be the
guy right, They spent a lot of draft capital on him,
and unfortunately he doesn't seem to appear to be that guy.
And they build a great roster like they have all
the pieces in place to making this work, and they
just don't. And it's wild because their roster gives them
(19:57):
the best opportunity to win in the NFC Conference. I mean,
if you put Dak Prescott on that team, you put
you put Jingle and Hurts on that roster, I mean,
you put you put even Kirk Cousins on that roster, like,
you have yourself a legitimable contender, and in my opinion,
without that quarterback, you really don't. I don't buy LeVar
this rock Party year or two turns into like an
(20:19):
all pro type guy. It's it's just it's not what
I believe. I don't. Maybe you do, and I'm wrong
on this one, but I just don't see that happening.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Uh. I'm curious. See it's it's the it's the injury
part that that threw it all off to me. If
brock Party doesn't have to deal with the whole elbow
situation and seeing where he's at health wise, I gotta say,
I honestly was very impressed with the way he played,
(20:47):
and and if he were healthy throughout this offseason and
coming into the season, I would say that he would
have the opportunity to be on a high trajectory than
what I have him on now. But I think the
injury kind of maybe derailed my, you know, my belief
(21:08):
in the fact that he can be that guy for
them coming off of that type of you know, time off.
But I'm not a believer in Lance. I'm not I'm
not a believer that he's going to be the answer
for this team. But this is why you lace him up.
He is a top draft pick, so he came out
highly recommended, highly sought after, and he has an opportunity
(21:32):
here if if party doesn't make it back in time,
which people are saying he might make it back in time.
But even if he does make it back in time, again,
I'm not certain how he's going to play. So Trey
Lance still might get an opportunity to play anyway, depending
on how brock Purdy comes back and plays. But I
think when you're looking at it from I guess a
(21:54):
more critical a critical eye in terms of what the
roster and the personnel like shapes up to be. The
reason why I find this to be so intriguing is
those teams that we mentioned and that we named, all
you have to do is is basically not mess it up. Yeah,
you know, you're in a position where the defense in
(22:15):
which I mean they ended up losing to Kansas City anyway,
the year they made it to the Super Bowl, but
it was kind of the same thing. I mean. Jimmy
Garoppolo to me is a good, fine football player. I
do not think he's the reason why they lost that game.
He's part of it. Yes, he missed a big throw
in the game, but it was a two possession game
(22:36):
and late in the game, and that defense, that daunting
defense gave up, you know, to two scores to lose
the game. I think that the defense let them down.
I don't think that's something that would have happened with
the eighty five Beers, with the two thousand rated, with
the two thousand and three, the you know, the Tampa
(22:58):
Bay Buccaneers.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
I know, if you to up to here, but you
were the second pick overall. Trail answer is the third
pick overall. I was drafted like two forty ones. I
don't have this experience that you have. How much mental
like pressure is there with that draft pick on Trey
Lance to kind of return healthy and play up to
what people expect.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Him to be. I mean, I think there's always going
to be pressure when you go high, and there's always
It's interesting because when you're a high draft pick, not
only is there pressure for you to play, there's a
pressure for you to be the best. That's the difference
if you if you go in a different round or
later round, they just want to see you be able
(23:40):
to play, like did one of our did did our
seventh round draft pick pan out? Is he on the field?
But if you're a number one overall pick for a team,
they want you to be a different maker and whatever
it is that they've gotten to know of you. Like
for me, it was if I didn't make an emphatic play,
(24:04):
it just seemed like I didn't have a good game.
Like if I didn't dive over a line, if I
didn't hurdle somebody, if I didn't do something that was
outrageously out of the norm, it just seemed like, you know,
oh well he had he had nine tackles today. You know,
it's like all right, you know it wasn't it kind
of you're you're measured in your weight on a different scale.
(24:29):
And that's interesting because if Trey Lance plays like Brock
Purdy last year, is that good enough? It might not
have been good enough based upon where he was drafted.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Well that's the thing, right, So like your people, it's
a good, good point that LeVar is making here because
the expectations on your career are often tied to where
you're drafted. Absolutely unfair, right, And so you know I
was I was a seventh round pick and I ended
up playing a year. It's like, well, great, dang first
(25:02):
round pick playing eight year. Sometimes people are like, ah,
you know, you know, whin a Super Bowl? You know,
it's a lot different, right, And so with Trey Lance,
you have a player who's drafted third overall at quarterback,
like you're expected to win a championship. Fair unfair That
those the expectations placed on you when you're drafted. And
I do feel like a lot of times, you know
(25:24):
it's it's players. They understand those expectations, but it's a
little unfair. They don't choose where they're drafted, right, And
some players get overdrafted and they get drafted too high
and the expectations aren't really fit for their talent level.
It's just part of sport, right, It's part of life,
and you know, players at times have a hard time
kind of I'm not understanding that, but playing their career
(25:47):
around those expectations.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, indeed they do.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
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Speaker 2 (26:31):
Jeff dk Metcalf gave a list of his greatest receivers
of all time. Yep, I'm not going to belabor the point.
I'm just gonna allow for him to give you the
you know, his five or his his list. We have
a SoundBite of this, and I'm just so excited to
(26:54):
hear what you have to say about DK's lists. So
let's take a listen and let's talk about it on
the other side. Five all the time. Antonio Brown, Antonio
Brown's number one. And I'm gonna go Randy Mousk, I
don't go Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Julio ra Jones. Okay,
did you want to hear it again or was that
(27:16):
good enough for you? I heard it? Okay, you heard it.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah. I I think a lot of players, current players,
don't respect at times the accomplishments of players that you
know that they maybe watched his kid or maybe didn't
didn't really watch much of the kid. Right to put
Jerry Rice where he ranked, Jerry Rice was the fourth,
I think it was. Yes, it's kind of crazy, like
(27:45):
like Jerry Rice of all the time, I think lost
a second.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yes, that's the goat.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
But to me, it's just it's a lack of either
knowledge or respect of sort of elders. Right again, Jerry
Rice ain't that old. I mean, like but but it's
it's just that you know, there's this you know, play
younger players typically you know they were they kind of
revert back to what they know. Uh, And it's like
(28:14):
I just kind of thought it was understood. Jerry Rice
was the best ever. I don think it was in
a discussion you even have anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
But to me, they're just gonna have thrown Randy Moss
into the debate, like is it is it Jerry Rice
or is it Randy.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I think Randy Moss a second.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, I mean see my whole thing is and you're right,
that's that's where I fall on it, Like it's it's interesting,
I I you know, I I'll go back to school,
like just to put it on a smaller scale, I'll
go back to school and and players don't know who
I am. You know a lot of times they don't
(28:51):
know who I am. And it's like, but I'm on
your wall, Like I'm like, there's like, do you not
Like they put all of these things up so that
you understand the legacy and the tradition that you're connected to.
And then there's a few of us that are like
all Americans and have one sports, and your pitchers are
(29:13):
all on the wall and they're big, Like you got
to walk down these hallways every single day, Like, and
I'm sitting there thinking to myself, do you not stop
and look at the walls, Like do you not see
the guys that have done things that have allowed for
you to be in a facility like this and enjoy
the things that you're able to enjoy, Like you don't
(29:34):
take the time to stop and look and be like, oh,
like I wonder how they played, or you know, different
things like that. It's for me, I feel like we've
gotten so far away from athletes being fans of the
game to athletes are like I think being fans of
the game have been replaced with training and with social media,
(29:58):
And I really believe that there has been very little time,
in very little space for development and education of young athletes.
So while I want to be mad at DK mattcalf,
especially because his dad played in the league, Jerry Rice
(30:18):
is by far, far and away the best wide receiver
to ever play the game. Some would debate he's one
of the greatest, if not the greatest football player. People
throw Jim Brown in there, you know, they'll they'll throw
Barry Sanders. They'll some throw Dion in there. Jerry Rice
should always be in the conversation of greatest football player ever,
(30:40):
not just greatest receiver. So and then and then I
found it to be kind of like, I don't know,
like ab is your number one receiver of all time?
I know he had a great, a great run in Pittsburgh,
that that run that he had, But to put and
to Brown ahead of the list of guys that should
(31:05):
be on that list, it's pretty that that. I don't know.
I think fun I think fandom is flight. It's fleeing
in terms of what new school players like they don't
know their history, like where's Tim Brown and all of this?
Where's Lynn Swan in this conversation where you know, like
(31:29):
Randy mad should be number two on the list, but
Terroll Owens, I mean Tero Owens and Randy are on
the list. But I just think that when you look
at the the setup of it, like you can go
to if you really want to get deep with it,
you could go into talking about talking about guys like
Jimmy Smith or Andre Reid, like where where where are
(31:51):
their names? You know what I mean? When you're talking
about top guys of all time? Art Monk, where are
you know? But I just I think it's a sign
of the times, just hearing what his top five was. Yeah,
it's a sign of the time. It's a sign of
the times.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I do think it is hard for players who haven't
watched players with their own eyes. I'm sure DK watched
Jerry Rice to put players in there. You you mentioned
you know some older players. You know, I've watched enough
of Jim Brown highlights to put him where he belongs.
But understand, sometimes when people want to rank your best,
(32:30):
let's say, use offensive linement, best offensive lignment of all time,
I'm like, guys, I kind of just stick with the
ones I've watched, Right, It's hard for me to give
And there are plenty offensive linemen who have had great
careers in Hall of Fame that played in the sixties
and seventies and maybe but like I get to see
them play. So I understand if you didn't put players
on this list, if you're DK or any player or
anyone really ranking, you know players that you didn't put
(32:53):
on someone who you might not have watched play. But
there's no way that DK Metcalff did not watch Jerry Rice,
but Jery Rice were t in two thousand and four.
Now he left Sanrancisco ninety nine, but even in two
thousand and one, he had eleven hundred yards in Oakland.
He had twelve hundred yard in two thousand and two,
So in with that year, fifteen of his career, he's
still getting twelve hundred yards in a in a league
(33:14):
that was running the ball as much as they were,
and Oakland was very good that year. I think that
was the year that they made the Super Bowl? Was
that the year in the Super Bowl? But uh, you
know they they you know Rice was playing when d
K was alive, and so to put him on there
without you know, he had I mean the year, I mean,
look at these numbers. This again, this is not a
(33:35):
passing league, man. He had eighteen hundred yards and ninety five,
fifteen hundred and ninety four, fifteen hundred and ninety three,
fifteen hundred and nineteen ninety and nineteen eighty six, like
almost fifteen hundred nineteen eighty nine. These are these are
not numbers you put up in an He had one
hundred fifteen yards a game in nineteen ninety five, So
(33:57):
you know, again passing league, right, I mean, see me
a running league back then where quarterbacks were you know,
we're throwing the ball eighteen times a game. So it's uh,
he was the best to do it. And again, I
just think it's kind of a lack of maybe just awareness,
awareness to his way.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
He does play for the Seahawks. Maybe he's just grudging
that he played. You know, that's a forty nine ers player.
Maybe maybe that played a part in it. You know,
I don't know, but I just like Randy Moss probably
the most freakish athlete to play the position. Like So
if you're saying just straight talent, like, that's Randy Moss
(34:40):
all day. But if you're talking about workhorses and guys
that get it done and have been consistent, you're you're
now going into the ram of guys like Jerry Rice
and Tim Brown and Terrell Owens. Like that's to me,
those are the names that that should be popping out,
you know, quickly agree, But anyway, that's that's uh, yeah,
(35:06):
that was I.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Was surprised that Antonio Brown made his list. I mean,
Antonio Brown was for the years that that he was
in Pittsburgh, he was incredible, man, he was He was
really good.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But uh, I mean is he the greatest? Is he
the greatest receiver? And Steelers history I have to do?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I mean Lynn Swan, right, I mean you're looking at Swan.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Swan's the first one that comes to mind to me.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Okay, again, this is I think where the generational thing
is really hard, right, because you know when you have
a player that.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
And don't forget about and Lynn Swan would be my pick.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Like okay, So like lind Swan, he his highest year
for receiving was eight hundred and eighty yards okay, but
that was sixty one receptions like that, that was that
was the era he played in. Antonio Brown was, you know,
was getting a hundred and twenty nine receptions, one hundred
and thirty six receptions, one hundred and one receptions. Like
(36:04):
if you you give Linz one one hundred and one receptions,
he probably is getting near the numbers Antonio Brown is getting.
So it's hard I think to compare eras for that reason, Oh,
you have just compare that player to the era they
played in and whether or not they were, you know,
the elite of the elite in that era. I think
that's how you compare players across different different years of football.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, I would. I would. I would find it hard
to debate that Ab might be the greatest in the
history in terms of statistically his statistical run, but in
terms of what they meant to the organization and greatest
receiver of all time, I'm gonna probably go with Hines
Ward as as the number one guy. All right, But
(36:50):
I don't know that you'd be wrong if you said AB.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I would certainly defer to a wide receiver who was
very good at run blocking.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
So yess he was.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Heines work, he got in that, he got in that,
I mean he played was that uh you know five ten,
I mean it was fourteen years. I had that correct
in Pittsburgh, So you know, uh, he thirteen years. It
looks to me thirteen years. He was incredible. He had
he had over a thousand yards. We're receiving six of
(37:21):
those years in two years. He got super close to
doing that. Antonio Brown has more awards as far as
you know what what I think what awards.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
First might be he might be the greatest, greatest all
time in Pittsburgh. I mean, it's hard, it's hard to
debate it.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
It's hard to debate it well, heinz war does have two.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Super Bowls that iss and a Super Bowl MVP. Actually
mm hmmm m and he was a.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Good run blocker.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Oh my gosh. Well, I mean I don't know, but
but greatest of all time. I mean, that's that's that's
that's high praise from DK metcalf for for a b.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I mean, DK's just wrong.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
It's fine.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I mean, it's okay. It's wrong. You can have a
wrong opinion.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
It's okay. You can't have a wrong opinion because it
is an opinion. I mean it's right to helm.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
No, it's wrong. It's okay.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We just admit that. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
This is the fast of two pros and a couple
Joe with Lamar Rings and Rady Winn and Jonas Knox
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is an interesting time in football because we continue
to have the conversations about running backs, and the latest
conversation is Josh Jacob Latest is running well threatening to
not be running. He's actually there's there's actually reports that
(00:34):
he may hold out into training camp. We've had this
conversation as it applies to say Kwon Barkley. This seems
to be where things are heading to, which is a
holdout situation. Listen, I don't know why anyone would get
(00:57):
up in arms about a holdout situation. Hold Out happen
all the time. They are age old tactics and negotiating.
These are negotiations. I just I would ask you this
should should this be cautious approaching holding out for the
(01:17):
running backs? Because it just does not seem as though
that that these scenarios such like I guess what what
Ezekiel Elliott did when when he was not in camp
and ended up getting his deal. Do you see it
playing out the way it did for for Ezekiel Elliott?
Or is this like kind of more of a volatile
(01:40):
situation for Josh Jacobs and Saquon Barkley.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, it's interesting, you know, Jacobs is almost more of
kind of part of the Raiders' offense, and Saquon is
for the Giants, I think because of really the core
situation and the offensive scheme in in Vegas right now.
(02:06):
So it's kind of fascinating to see what the Raiders
would do without him. You know, a lot of they're
big plays last year where Josh Jacobs runs, right, That's
kind of what it was. So it's kind of curious
to see what they would do if he held out.
But the tough part about it is that the Raiders
(02:27):
aren't going to be very good, And if you're them,
I understand not wanting to give Jacobs a lot of
money because if you tie up money in a running
back like that and the rest of your roster isn't
very good, you could use that money elsewhere to make
your roster better, right LeVar, So I understand that there
is a a little bit of trepidation and saying, hey,
(02:51):
we're going to pay this guy a lot of money
because we need to spend the money elsewhere, honestly, right,
we gotta spend the money somewhere else because we just
we we don't have the roster to afford paying paying
a running back that much money.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Wow. If I mean he's he's outside of Max Crosby,
he's their best player. Devant, they got Davante, they got
Davante Adams. I digress. They got Davante Adams outside of
those two, he's their best player. Is there anybody else
(03:26):
of a business? eBay uh? I think it's imperative. And
and listen, if you look at again, if you look
at the correlations of their production. And when I say there,
I'm talking like I said, I continue to kind of
put Saquon into the conversation. I would I would argue
(03:48):
that that they're equally important to their teams. I would.
I would argue that if you look at the win
percentages of the New York Giants when Saquon is playing,
when Saquon is productive versus when he's not, it's a
tremendous difference. And I think there's a tremendous difference when
(04:09):
when Jacobs is not at the top of his game
for the Raiders. So to me, if I'm the team
and I'm looking at and that has to be the
reason why they're so stadfast on wanting to get paid
is because you have to do the homework and know
that the winning percentages are in favor of your team
(04:31):
when this particular player is on the field and is
being productive. I just don't understand thinking that you could
just use somebody else to get through and be okay.
Or you're basically saying it costs too much for us
to want to win at that number. I mean, is
that safe to say it? Basically we're not willing, We're
(04:53):
uncomfortable paying this player this position that much money, and
we're okay with our team actually possibly losing because we
don't have this guy's services. I mean, it's got to
be one of the two.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah. I think for the Raiders, they look at this
and say, hey, man, like we just we if we're
trying to build our roster up and we have a
lot of holes on our roster, is spending all that
money on a running back can to help us be
that much better?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We saw last year how good they were. They won
six games with Josh Jacobs. Right, the Giants made the
playoffs so far, Look, you can make the argument that
Saquon was more important to them because of that factor.
So if you're the Raiders, are you saying, hey, we're
gonna pay a guy at this position, a running back
(05:45):
all that money to then win six games? I think
they're looking at that and saying, hey, we just na
we're not doing that. I think that's where the Raiders might.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Be thinking, well, one thing is right wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
But it does feel like that's sort of their line
of thinking. You know, like we it didn't really work
for us last year, so why are we doing it again?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, my whole thing is he did his job. Like
the reason why you're paying him is because he was
productive for you as as a player, is what I
would say. I mean, I always felt as though when
you when you look at when you look at things
(06:29):
at its bear's minimum. If a guy comes out and
he does his job, he does his job, then all
of the the you know, all the things that we
use as evidence or information, it's like, oh, but did
he do it the year before? Oh well did he
stay healthy the year before the year before that? And
(06:50):
it's like for me, when when you really think about
doing your job, you're based your your your your production
and your SSS level in the like now in the
now is what's most important, right. I mean, it just
really is because I start to think, like in pro
(07:11):
sports and then football, when we start to talk about
should you pay a player, it's like immediately the conversation
goes down the road where you're trying to look at
the total body of work, which you should look at
a total body of work. But if a person comes
into a season and they played like they say, okay,
this is a proven year on their contract. You see
(07:32):
it happen in basketball. You see it happen in baseball.
If it's a proven year and you have a ton
of home runs, or you pitch really well, you know,
or you're playing shortstop really well, whatever it may be,
you get compensated with a very very large contract. When
they do that, Josh Jacobs and sa Kwon Barkley were
(07:57):
improve it years and they played well, they perform well,
it's a what have you done for me lately? League?
If they get these contracts, you know what they're gonna do.
People are going to look at them and be like,
you should be playing better because you got that contract.
They're not talking about, well you played well enough to
get it, or you didn't, or you played well enough,
but you didn't get it. They're going to be looking
at and they're going to say, what are you doing
(08:19):
right now? What are you doing this Sunday? And I
feel like if you're judging paying these guys off of
what they have done for you now, like what has
happened now? Both of them have been wildly you know,
productive during the course of the last season. Yeah, so
I don't understand what the problem is, Like, Okay, can
(08:39):
you get to fifteen? Say Kuan's asking for sixty. I
don't know what Josh Jacobs is asking for, but if
sixteen is the number because of McCaffrey, you can't find
your way to somewhere around fifteen or so. So to
keep these guys happy, I just your team stinks. They
do the Raiders, and we don't know what the Giants
(09:02):
will be this year, don't know. But to say, well,
we're not going to pay you because we stink is
to say, well, one of our more productive guys on
the team, one the I think he won the Pepsi
Ground Award, that he did so well as a running
back last year this past season, Why are you not
going to reward your players? So now you're sending a
(09:23):
message through your locker room to the rest of the
players that as it applies to market value. At my position,
if I if I have the best of years, it
doesn't matter. It's just going to be dictated off of
if if the organization feels like they want to pay
me or not, Like, is that the message you want
to send to the rest of your your organization, Like
(09:43):
if they could do it to Josh Jacobs, they definitely
damn sure could do it to me, you know what
I mean. I just think that's a bad that's a
bad message.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's a bad message that that's the way
you might operate as a franchise. But sometimes looking from
the franchise perspective, that's just the way business has to
get done. Right. We can't we can't over invest in
(10:13):
a player because other players might think like, we don't
you know, we don't We might not pay them, right.
They paid Max Crosby, right, and I'm not this. I
don't think this front office did. But they have paid players,
but maybe they don't feel like John Jacobs is worth
all that money. Again, I go back to the example,
like who is a quarter, who's a running back? On
(10:33):
a second contract where you're like, you know what, that
paid off with wins and losses for my team, Like
I got more wins because that guy's is it was
paid a lot of money, and our team is now,
you know, much better for the future. We're set up
well for the future because that running back got paid
(10:54):
so much money. Hard to find many examples of the
NFL for that. I think teams look at that and say, hey,
that's gonna be our blueprint. I'm not going to do that.
You get caught in a situation where we pay someone
too much money then have to release them and it
has not worked out. We should have spent money elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
See, I feel like you could say that about every
position outside of quarterback, you know what I mean. Like
it's almost like you could in theory, you could say
that about every other position, Like you could find somebody
to say that about in at at the receiver's position,
you can find somebody for damn sure. On online line.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Most of the time, the difference I think is the levars.
A lot of times those players sign with their own
team versus as a free agent, and I think that,
like it's hard to differentiate sometimes some of those big
contracts because I mean you can make an argument that
you know, a couple of years ago, you know, Mike
Evans was an important resign for the Bucks, right and
(11:53):
and uh you know as someone who helped Tom Brady
out right as a wide receiver. Like there's there's examples
of that. The Chiefs just kind of blue the out
of the water last year because they used a bunch
of you know what, but you know, look him. But
you know they signed juju. It was a small contract obviously,
I mean, yeah, it is, but I think often if
it's a line that proven that if you pay those
(12:14):
guys that you have success.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I just I just think that it's I'm not gonna
say it's dangerous because it is. It is business, and
this is always happened that they will get I believe
they will get deals done, to be honest, Like if
if trends served correctly, they'll get a deal done. Like
it we've only seen it happen pretty much. Would with
uh Le'Veon Bell and Pittsburgh, they just they don't pay.
(12:40):
They just don't pay. In Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
If that Le'Veon Bell, I mean he'd been s downing
fifteen million dollars. Man, it's nuts. That is nuts. I think.
I think in the end, you're right. The deals will
get done because if you look at at the running
back position, you look at Saque who's been injured throughout
his career. I look up Josh Jake. I don't think
he's been as as hurt. Let's say that you can
play one year under this franchise tack of ten million
(13:07):
or kind of get a two year deal worth you
know thirty you know to twenty six million, right, so
that's the thirteen million dollars a year. I would take
that deal, right, the two year deal. That's a great
deal for running back because you're getting you're getting twenty
six million dollars over two years. Maybe longer they'd be
a four year deal, but you know, they give them,
you know, twenty six over two it's a lot of money,
(13:27):
and it's better than a franchise tag, right, And it's
better than getting hurt during your on your franchise tag year.
You know, quarterbacks are the only ones that really can
can sort of play that franchise you know, year out
and not really worry about eight injuries. It's hard to
other positions. That's why a lot of guys end up
(13:47):
signing because playing that that tag out and other positions
that the injury risk is really difficult. He worked out,
you know, it worked for Orlando Brown, he played last
year er tag and got a big deal in the Bengals.
But a lot of times it's hard for players to
take that risk of playing that one year.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
On the tag.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio AI.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Can the forty nine ers be the best roster ever
to win a Super Bowl without an elite quarterback? I
find it to be pretty pretty interesting just based upon
the thought process too. Two teams come to mind very
very quickly, but there there are three obviously that you
(14:41):
could throw out there. The first one that comes to
mind is the what is the eighty five Beers?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That one. And while I think McMahon was a pretty
cool personality, I think we would all agree that it
was the defense that was yeah, the catalysts of that team,
and you had some pretty pretty impressive players on that
offense as well. But then the next one, the second well,
(15:12):
the second one that comes to mind is obviously the
two thousand the Ravens. That Ravens team was yep. I mean,
that's just phenomenon. It's hard to say it's the most
phenomenal defense, but it just kind of seems like it's
(15:33):
possibly the most phenomenal defense ever in the history of
the game. I don't know, some would debate it. And
then there's the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, of course, and that
was two thousand and what two three two, okay, yeah,
and that was so Brad Johnson was the quarterback for
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but he was a really, really
(15:55):
fine quarterback at the pro level. And then you had
Trend Dilfer and Baltimore as the quarterback that year. And
I don't think anyone would make the mistake of thinking
that Trent Dilford was a franchise quarterback in this league.
So now they're having the conversations about that possibly being
(16:17):
the scenario for this upcoming year's forty nine ers, that
they could actually win a Super Bowl and we don't
even know who their quarterback is coming into the season.
I find that difficult. But what's your thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think the question is the more are the Niners
the best rosters that ever win a Super Bowl? Like
not even that, like the best roster with the worst
corpback situation ever. Think about this they have Okay, they
have the best leff tackling football, yes, the best pass
rusher in football, right, the best linebacker in football, ye,
(16:57):
Possibly the best running back in football, ye, the best
slash guy kind of like a Deebo Samuel right, kind
of a combination running back ish wide receiver right. Best. Last, Okay,
they have one of the better safeties in football in Hafungo.
Very young safety, but very good. Right, he's gonna be
like he's a possible All Pro this year. Think about that.
They have the best player at multiple high leverage, high
(17:19):
leverage positions right off the tackle, pass rusher, and yet
it's like, well, yeah, they don't have a quarterback. I
don't think it'd win a Super Bowl. Like it's nuts, right,
I can't recall even the teams that you just mentioned
didn't have the best player every position, like like like
the Niners, Dude, Baltimore Ravens were close, right, Ougden ray
(17:41):
Lewis ed reed like you know, they.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Were closer than but they didn't really have it on offense, right,
they had Shannon Sharp at tight end, he's older. You know,
they had what what was it would have been Travis
Taylor and uh who would have been the receivers on
that that team. Jermaine Lewis was was like the punt earner,
but they didn't have last was pretty good though at
(18:04):
the receiver's position. They didn't have I think was Derek
Mason on that team. I don't know that he was.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
They didn't have a.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Debo, but they had They had Jamal Lewis in the backfield,
I do know that, but they you know, yeah, they
didn't have a different era.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
It was also a different era like you US didn't have,
like you know, it was a it was a run
first era.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It was a run first era, but they were able
to run first through the AFC North. Yeah, and now
that's that's difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
And then the Hall of Fame left tackle, which obviously
the forty nine ers will have as well, So you know,
it's sort of sort of the same thing. It's close,
it's close enough for the discussion, but nonetheless it's pretty wild, right,
Like the Niners have this whole offense and defense that's
so elite, and yet it's they have either Brock pretty
off an injury, and I think brock party will not
play as well as your guys. Look, there's one Tom Brady. Okay,
(18:55):
that's it. We need to stop comparing every late round
draft pick who plays decently well with Tom Brady. Right,
he's not gonna be Tom Brady. All right, there's one
Tom Brady. Tom Brady is coming gone. He's retired. Now,
that's it. There's no there's no more tom Brady's. So
I think it's it's unfair to brock Prey to compare
him to Tom Brady. Then you have Trey Lance, who
(19:15):
you know, the potential's there and we all agree, but
we have not seen him play long enough to even
determine if he if he can do it. And then
Sam Darnold, who I think anyone in this offense will
will play well as we see with with any quarterback
who's had in this offense. But you know, Donald's obviously
not the answer to a long term success, you know,
you know in the NFC conference, that's it, Like they
(19:36):
don't have and Trey Lance are supposed to be the
guy right, They spent a lot of draft capital on him,
and unfortunately he doesn't seem to appear to be that guy.
And they build a great roster like they have all
the pieces in place to making this work, and they
just don't. And it's wild because their roster gives them
(19:57):
the best opportunity to win in the NFC Conference. I mean,
if you put Dak Prescott on that team, you put
you put Jingle and Hurts on that roster, I mean,
you put you put even Kirk Cousins on that roster, like,
you have yourself a legitimable contender, and in my opinion,
without that quarterback, you really don't. I don't buy LeVar
this rock Party year or two turns into like an
(20:19):
all pro type guy. It's it's just it's not what
I believe. I don't. Maybe you do, and I'm wrong
on this one, but I just don't see that happening.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Uh. I'm curious. See it's it's the it's the injury
part that that threw it all off to me. If
brock Party doesn't have to deal with the whole elbow
situation and seeing where he's at health wise, I gotta say,
I honestly was very impressed with the way he played,
(20:47):
and and if he were healthy throughout this offseason and
coming into the season, I would say that he would
have the opportunity to be on a high trajectory than
what I have him on now. But I think the
injury kind of maybe derailed my, you know, my belief
(21:08):
in the fact that he can be that guy for
them coming off of that type of you know, time off.
But I'm not a believer in Lance. I'm not I'm
not a believer that he's going to be the answer
for this team. But this is why you lace him up.
He is a top draft pick, so he came out
highly recommended, highly sought after, and he has an opportunity
(21:32):
here if if party doesn't make it back in time,
which people are saying he might make it back in time.
But even if he does make it back in time, again,
I'm not certain how he's going to play. So Trey
Lance still might get an opportunity to play anyway, depending
on how brock Purdy comes back and plays. But I
think when you're looking at it from I guess a
(21:54):
more critical a critical eye in terms of what the
roster and the personnel like shapes up to be. The
reason why I find this to be so intriguing is
those teams that we mentioned and that we named, all
you have to do is is basically not mess it up. Yeah,
you know, you're in a position where the defense in
(22:15):
which I mean they ended up losing to Kansas City anyway,
the year they made it to the Super Bowl, but
it was kind of the same thing. I mean. Jimmy
Garoppolo to me is a good, fine football player. I
do not think he's the reason why they lost that game.
He's part of it. Yes, he missed a big throw
in the game, but it was a two possession game
(22:36):
and late in the game, and that defense, that daunting
defense gave up, you know, to two scores to lose
the game. I think that the defense let them down.
I don't think that's something that would have happened with
the eighty five Beers, with the two thousand rated, with
the two thousand and three, the you know, the Tampa
(22:58):
Bay Buccaneers.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
I know, if you to up to here, but you
were the second pick overall. Trail answer is the third
pick overall. I was drafted like two forty ones. I
don't have this experience that you have. How much mental
like pressure is there with that draft pick on Trey
Lance to kind of return healthy and play up to
what people expect.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Him to be. I mean, I think there's always going
to be pressure when you go high, and there's always
It's interesting because when you're a high draft pick, not
only is there pressure for you to play, there's a
pressure for you to be the best. That's the difference
if you if you go in a different round or
later round, they just want to see you be able
(23:40):
to play, like did one of our did did our
seventh round draft pick pan out? Is he on the field?
But if you're a number one overall pick for a team,
they want you to be a different maker and whatever
it is that they've gotten to know of you. Like
for me, it was if I didn't make an emphatic play,
(24:04):
it just seemed like I didn't have a good game.
Like if I didn't dive over a line, if I
didn't hurdle somebody, if I didn't do something that was
outrageously out of the norm, it just seemed like, you know,
oh well he had he had nine tackles today. You know,
it's like all right, you know it wasn't it kind
of you're you're measured in your weight on a different scale.
(24:29):
And that's interesting because if Trey Lance plays like Brock
Purdy last year, is that good enough? It might not
have been good enough based upon where he was drafted.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Well that's the thing, right, So like your people, it's
a good, good point that LeVar is making here because
the expectations on your career are often tied to where
you're drafted. Absolutely unfair, right, And so you know I
was I was a seventh round pick and I ended
up playing a year. It's like, well, great, dang first
(25:02):
round pick playing eight year. Sometimes people are like, ah,
you know, you know, whin a Super Bowl? You know,
it's a lot different, right, And so with Trey Lance,
you have a player who's drafted third overall at quarterback,
like you're expected to win a championship. Fair unfair That
those the expectations placed on you when you're drafted. And
I do feel like a lot of times, you know
(25:24):
it's it's players. They understand those expectations, but it's a
little unfair. They don't choose where they're drafted, right, And
some players get overdrafted and they get drafted too high
and the expectations aren't really fit for their talent level.
It's just part of sport, right, It's part of life,
and you know, players at times have a hard time
kind of I'm not understanding that, but playing their career
(25:47):
around those expectations.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, indeed they do.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
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Speaker 4 (26:01):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller.
Would mean a lot to have you joined us on
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Speaker 2 (26:23):
Facts about human nature and more.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Listen to The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Jeff dk Metcalf gave a list of his greatest receivers
of all time. Yep, I'm not going to belabor the point.
I'm just gonna allow for him to give you the
you know, his five or his his list. We have
a SoundBite of this, and I'm just so excited to
(26:54):
hear what you have to say about DK's lists. So
let's take a listen and let's talk about it on
the other side. Five all the time. Antonio Brown, Antonio
Brown's number one. And I'm gonna go Randy Mousk, I
don't go Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Julio ra Jones. Okay,
did you want to hear it again or was that
(27:16):
good enough for you? I heard it? Okay, you heard it.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah. I I think a lot of players, current players,
don't respect at times the accomplishments of players that you
know that they maybe watched his kid or maybe didn't
didn't really watch much of the kid. Right to put
Jerry Rice where he ranked, Jerry Rice was the fourth,
I think it was. Yes, it's kind of crazy, like
(27:45):
like Jerry Rice of all the time, I think lost
a second.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yes, that's the goat.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
But to me, it's just it's a lack of either
knowledge or respect of sort of elders. Right again, Jerry
Rice ain't that old. I mean, like but but it's
it's just that you know, there's this you know, play
younger players typically you know they were they kind of
revert back to what they know. Uh, And it's like
(28:14):
I just kind of thought it was understood. Jerry Rice
was the best ever. I don think it was in
a discussion you even have anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
But to me, they're just gonna have thrown Randy Moss
into the debate, like is it is it Jerry Rice
or is it Randy.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I think Randy Moss a second.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, I mean see my whole thing is and you're right,
that's that's where I fall on it, Like it's it's interesting,
I I you know, I I'll go back to school,
like just to put it on a smaller scale, I'll
go back to school and and players don't know who
I am. You know a lot of times they don't
(28:51):
know who I am. And it's like, but I'm on
your wall, Like I'm like, there's like, do you not
Like they put all of these things up so that
you understand the legacy and the tradition that you're connected to.
And then there's a few of us that are like
all Americans and have one sports, and your pitchers are
(29:13):
all on the wall and they're big, Like you got
to walk down these hallways every single day, Like, and
I'm sitting there thinking to myself, do you not stop
and look at the walls, Like do you not see
the guys that have done things that have allowed for
you to be in a facility like this and enjoy
the things that you're able to enjoy, Like you don't
(29:34):
take the time to stop and look and be like, oh,
like I wonder how they played, or you know, different
things like that. It's for me, I feel like we've
gotten so far away from athletes being fans of the
game to athletes are like I think being fans of
the game have been replaced with training and with social media,
(29:58):
And I really believe that there has been very little time,
in very little space for development and education of young athletes.
So while I want to be mad at DK mattcalf,
especially because his dad played in the league, Jerry Rice
(30:18):
is by far, far and away the best wide receiver
to ever play the game. Some would debate he's one
of the greatest, if not the greatest football player. People
throw Jim Brown in there, you know, they'll they'll throw
Barry Sanders. They'll some throw Dion in there. Jerry Rice
should always be in the conversation of greatest football player ever,
(30:40):
not just greatest receiver. So and then and then I
found it to be kind of like, I don't know,
like ab is your number one receiver of all time?
I know he had a great, a great run in Pittsburgh,
that that run that he had, But to put and
to Brown ahead of the list of guys that should
(31:05):
be on that list, it's pretty that that. I don't know.
I think fun I think fandom is flight. It's fleeing
in terms of what new school players like they don't
know their history, like where's Tim Brown and all of this?
Where's Lynn Swan in this conversation where you know, like
(31:29):
Randy mad should be number two on the list, but
Terroll Owens, I mean Tero Owens and Randy are on
the list. But I just think that when you look
at the the setup of it, like you can go
to if you really want to get deep with it,
you could go into talking about talking about guys like
Jimmy Smith or Andre Reid, like where where where are
(31:51):
their names? You know what I mean? When you're talking
about top guys of all time? Art Monk, where are
you know? But I just I think it's a sign
of the times, just hearing what his top five was. Yeah,
it's a sign of the time. It's a sign of
the times.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I do think it is hard for players who haven't
watched players with their own eyes. I'm sure DK watched
Jerry Rice to put players in there. You you mentioned
you know some older players. You know, I've watched enough
of Jim Brown highlights to put him where he belongs.
But understand, sometimes when people want to rank your best,
(32:30):
let's say, use offensive linement, best offensive lignment of all time,
I'm like, guys, I kind of just stick with the
ones I've watched, Right, It's hard for me to give
And there are plenty offensive linemen who have had great
careers in Hall of Fame that played in the sixties
and seventies and maybe but like I get to see
them play. So I understand if you didn't put players
on this list, if you're DK or any player or
anyone really ranking, you know players that you didn't put
(32:53):
on someone who you might not have watched play. But
there's no way that DK Metcalff did not watch Jerry Rice,
but Jery Rice were t in two thousand and four.
Now he left Sanrancisco ninety nine, but even in two
thousand and one, he had eleven hundred yards in Oakland.
He had twelve hundred yard in two thousand and two,
So in with that year, fifteen of his career, he's
still getting twelve hundred yards in a in a league
(33:14):
that was running the ball as much as they were,
and Oakland was very good that year. I think that
was the year that they made the Super Bowl? Was
that the year in the Super Bowl? But uh, you
know they they you know Rice was playing when d
K was alive, and so to put him on there
without you know, he had I mean the year, I mean,
look at these numbers. This again, this is not a
(33:35):
passing league, man. He had eighteen hundred yards and ninety five,
fifteen hundred and ninety four, fifteen hundred and ninety three,
fifteen hundred and nineteen ninety and nineteen eighty six, like
almost fifteen hundred nineteen eighty nine. These are these are
not numbers you put up in an He had one
hundred fifteen yards a game in nineteen ninety five, So
(33:57):
you know, again passing league, right, I mean, see me
a running league back then where quarterbacks were you know,
we're throwing the ball eighteen times a game. So it's uh,
he was the best to do it. And again, I
just think it's kind of a lack of maybe just awareness,
awareness to his way.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
He does play for the Seahawks. Maybe he's just grudging
that he played. You know, that's a forty nine ers player.
Maybe maybe that played a part in it. You know,
I don't know, but I just like Randy Moss probably
the most freakish athlete to play the position. Like So
if you're saying just straight talent, like, that's Randy Moss
(34:40):
all day. But if you're talking about workhorses and guys
that get it done and have been consistent, you're you're
now going into the ram of guys like Jerry Rice
and Tim Brown and Terrell Owens. Like that's to me,
those are the names that that should be popping out,
you know, quickly agree, But anyway, that's that's uh, yeah,
(35:06):
that was I.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Was surprised that Antonio Brown made his list. I mean,
Antonio Brown was for the years that that he was
in Pittsburgh, he was incredible, man, he was He was
really good.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But uh, I mean is he the greatest? Is he
the greatest receiver? And Steelers history I have to do?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I mean Lynn Swan, right, I mean you're looking at Swan.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Swan's the first one that comes to mind to me.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Okay, again, this is I think where the generational thing
is really hard, right, because you know when you have
a player that.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
And don't forget about and Lynn Swan would be my pick.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Like okay, So like lind Swan, he his highest year
for receiving was eight hundred and eighty yards okay, but
that was sixty one receptions like that, that was that
was the era he played in. Antonio Brown was, you know,
was getting a hundred and twenty nine receptions, one hundred
and thirty six receptions, one hundred and one receptions. Like
(36:04):
if you you give Linz one one hundred and one receptions,
he probably is getting near the numbers Antonio Brown is getting.
So it's hard I think to compare eras for that reason, Oh,
you have just compare that player to the era they
played in and whether or not they were, you know,
the elite of the elite in that era. I think
that's how you compare players across different different years of football.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, I would. I would. I would find it hard
to debate that Ab might be the greatest in the
history in terms of statistically his statistical run, but in
terms of what they meant to the organization and greatest
receiver of all time, I'm gonna probably go with Hines
Ward as as the number one guy. All right, But
(36:50):
I don't know that you'd be wrong if you said AB.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I would certainly defer to a wide receiver who was
very good at run blocking.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
So yess he was.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Heines work, he got in that, he got in that,
I mean he played was that uh you know five ten,
I mean it was fourteen years. I had that correct
in Pittsburgh, So you know, uh, he thirteen years. It
looks to me thirteen years. He was incredible. He had
he had over a thousand yards. We're receiving six of
(37:21):
those years in two years. He got super close to
doing that. Antonio Brown has more awards as far as
you know what what I think what awards.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
First might be he might be the greatest, greatest all
time in Pittsburgh. I mean, it's hard, it's hard to
debate it.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
It's hard to debate it well, heinz war does have two.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Super Bowls that iss and a Super Bowl MVP. Actually
mm hmmm m and he was a.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Good run blocker.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Oh my gosh. Well, I mean I don't know, but
but greatest of all time. I mean, that's that's that's
that's high praise from DK metcalf for for a b.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I mean, DK's just wrong.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
It's fine.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I mean, it's okay. It's wrong. You can have a
wrong opinion.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
It's okay. You can't have a wrong opinion because it
is an opinion. I mean it's right to helm.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
No, it's wrong. It's okay.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We just admit that. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
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Hosts And Creators
Brady Quinn
LaVar Arrington
Jonas Knox
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