August 14, 2025 • 43 mins
Thursday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Brian Noe and Jason Martin wonders is Shedeur Sanders getting dinged up in practice will affect the Browns QB depth chart. Is Ben Johnson going to be the key to unlocking Caleb Williams. And QB tiers are questionable, especially with Jalen Hurts and Justin Herbert.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar Airings and grating Win and Jonas Knox on
four Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Oh what is going on? Happy Thursday to you, man,
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
J Mark.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Great to be with you. We are inching our way
towards ball.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We are just a little over a week away until
we get college football.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
That week zero sucks. It's a horrible slate of games.
I'm not gonna try.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
And tell you it's awesome, but it's ball nevertheless, and
then the week after Week one in college football we
got some great matchups and the NFL not too long
after that. Man, can you feel it? Can you feel
it in the air? Ball is right around the corner?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
J Martin? Oh yeah, I mean the only thing that
I can't feel yet is the temperature that I want
to accompany the ball that is around the corner. Because
of Nashville. It's just been an insanely, insanely hot just
in crazy hot summer. We're like plus ninety five for
the next seven days with one oh five plus heat indexes.
(01:07):
So it doesn't feel like ball. Well, I mean, it
feels like two days and in high school and all
that kind of stuff. But it doesn't feel like ball weather.
But we're getting there. We are getting there until I
think that's gonna be. The bonus is it's going to
be temperate again and I can walk outside without feeling
like a heat stroke.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Is thereby there you go, Okay, nice and yeah, if
you're into the cooler temperatures, ball signifies cooler temperatures, you know,
So if that's your thing right there, it won't be
insufferable with the summer temperatures. But this is the one
thing that caught my attention the most and I wanted
to dive in it with you. Brown's quarterback Shoulder Sanders,
(01:43):
speaking of ball, played well in his preseason debut last week. Well,
he suffered an oblique strain here Shane mart that was
in practice on Wednesday, and so he's unlikely to play
on Saturday. That was the next preseason game at the Eagles,
So it looks like he's not gonna be out on
the field.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So the first question is where does this leave Shauduur.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
On the depth chart as we inch closer to the
regular season. How do you think it's going to shake
out for the Browns leading up to Week one? If
you look at your you know, you look at the
crystal ball. What do you think in order one, two, three, four,
I don't know, question mark there, what do you think
it looks like come week one for the browns QB
depth chart.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, I mean it's We knew this was going to
be a bit convoluted. This was going to be the
television series where you had to watch every episode and
then read seven or eight different think pieces in order
to understand what was going on here. I mean, obviously,
Shaudor helped himself out a lot by what he did
in the first preseason game. It wasn't like the most
(02:47):
magical performance ever, but it showcased the kind of stuff
that you saw him do in college and the kind
of stuff that you would hope he was going to
be able to duplicate any NFL. I just look at
the I've looked at that scenario the whole time and
just kind of thought, I'm not sure why we aren't
looking at Shador as early as week one. Honestly, I
feel like it's probably likely to be somebody that's more
(03:09):
veteran than that. But if you're trying to get me
to stack the entire thing, man that's a difficult task
to do. If it's me doing it, I might just
throw Shador out there, quite frankly. But if I'm really
trying to figure out how it's going to shake out.
I know that originally Dylan Gabriel was being looked at
as being higher. I doubt that's going to be the
case by the time we get there, unless there's going
(03:30):
to be more incidents that we don't know exactly, And
then of course you have it's that little oblique injury.
It's nothing major from Shador, so that could obviously throw
some things into a wrench. So I'm not sure exactly
what we're looking at in terms of what I think
is going to happen. I think it's easier for me
to say, as long as he's healthy, I might like
(03:53):
to throw Shador out there and see what he can
do week one, because I just don't think this is
a year where Cleveland's going to be a factor. I
think it's more likely that this should be an experimental
year where you try to see what you can get
and see what you have on that roster as early
as possible, as opposed to going in thinking that you're
competing for a playoff spot.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, I think, well, it's two separate things, and I
like how you thought of it, what you would do
and what the Browns might do. It's much easier to
figure out what you would do. What the Browns are
gonna do. Who knows, man, they're a wild card. They're
a walking, walking wild card over there. I think it'll
resemble close to what it is right now. Flacco is
going to be the Week one starter they host the Bengals.
(04:35):
He's got a lot more experience that I don't think
they hit the ground running week one with Shaduur. I mean,
he's not even getting first team reps. You know, he's
not getting many reps in practice period, you know, so
I doubt they would throw them to the Wolves in
week one. I get your reasoning. I just don't think
that's what they would do. So I would say I'd
go Flacco. It's probably gonna be almost exactly what it
(04:56):
is right now. It's probably gonna be Flacco pick it.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't know if.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Gabriel is gonna get on the field this weekend, you know,
if he's healthy enough to do so. Because if he
gets on the field against the Eagles and he plays well,
he's probably gonna stay ahead of Shador, so it might
go Gabriel and then Shaduur. Or maybe they mix it
up and say we're not gonna keep four quarterbacks, let's
deal Kenny Pickett. Maybe they would do something like that,
But I don't think they would let one of the
(05:23):
rookies go just yet.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I don't see that happening.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I think that when
I look at it, Flacco is obviously just kind of
there to bridge, but it's not even a long term bridge.
I don't even think it's a half season bridge. I
agree with you. I think that's probably the most likely scenario,
especially against a division a division rival and a division opponent,
(05:46):
put somebody in there that's that's obviously seen his share
even in that division, to go even further into it.
I do look at it. It's a tough spot, honestly
for the rookies to be in, just because you have
a another one there. That scenario doesn't happen too often.
And then on top of that, there's two other guys
above that have at least starting experience in the league.
(06:07):
I'm not pretty I'm not big at all on picket
at this stage, but it would make sense at least
for right now for him to be where he is
on the depth chart. I just continue to look at
Shador and I'm like, man, why are you not in
New Orleans? Man? Because I haven't heard and seen very
much good about Tyler Shuck coming out of New Orleans.
It's just like there seemed to be other places where
(06:28):
he could have gone and not had seventeen quarterbacks that
he was competing with. It just seems like it seems
like the Browns created a problem needlessly, and I'm waiting
for them to sign another quarterback in the next couple
of weeks based on their act.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Right Well, yeah, that's the thing, man is there are
a few teams and we'll see where it goes. It
was a good preseason debut for Shador. I know you
and I aren't going crazy like he's going to be
the next big star based on this.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't think he can blow it out of proportion.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
The guy has talent, and there are to your point,
there are some teams that bypass Shador and they don't
have a quarterback of the now or the future on
the roster. The Jets don't have one the Steelers at
least have a quarterback for this year, not the future.
Look at what's happening with the Colts, the Radas they
get a bridge quarterback in Geno. There are a lot
(07:20):
of teams that passed on Shador, and not just the
first round, like second, third, fourth, that could have been
in a better position with Shadur and they elected not to.
This is the other thing I was thinking about, Jason Martin,
Brian Know with you here in for two Pros and
a Cup of Joe on Fox Sports Radio, do you
think it makes sense that Shador Sanders is the biggest
(07:41):
story in the NFL right now, because for sure he is.
There's not another guy that is getting talked about as
much in terms of on the field. Maybe we're talking
about Michaeh Parsons contract, but in terms of driving opinions
and driving content all over the place, he's the guy.
(08:01):
And I think you could look at it one of
two ways, j Martin, and both sides make some sense.
You could look at it and say, no, it doesn't
make any sense at all.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
He's listed as.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
A fourth string quarterback right now. He's not gonna be
the starter. Best case, he's the backups. Backup, or you
could say, yeah, it makes total sense. He's basically Bronnie
James with talent, right, He's got a famous dad. There
are a lot of people that dislike his flash for
whatever reason. Everybody has an opinion, So yeah, it makes
(08:31):
sense that he's the biggest story in the NFL right now,
which way do you look at it, Probably the latter.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I mean I think that once you saw how that
pre draft process kind of kicked into gear, you saw
a cow that could be milked, and I think that's
kind of what it's been, and there hasn't been. You
can correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not a
whole lot else just right now that's particularly interesting. Yeah,
there's gonna be storyline after storyline obviously once we get
(09:01):
to the season. But to your point, outside of the
Michael Parsons contract thing, which is just Jerry Jones finding
a way to stay relevant in the offseason and have
people talking about him, I mean, it's not like a
bunch of guys have been saying stuff about one another.
There's not a lot of disputes out there. It's just
the usual, right, It's the preseason predictions for the season,
(09:22):
Like we're starting to see that, and of course the
fantasy stuff is starting to ramp up a little bit
now and we're just trying to dodge injuries in the preseason.
But I mean, I'm trying to think of something else
that there's really meat on the bone, and mine has
always been the same, It's in the same division. It's
just that I think Pittsburgh's going to have a bad
year this year, and that's got the Aaron Rodgers effect.
(09:44):
But you can only talk about that so much, and
I think that people kind of exhausted all the talking
points for now, except I guess now he's talking about
the helmet, so I guess you could potentially discuss him
saying that the helmet looks like some kind of astronaut
thing or something. But in terms of just something that
creates it seems to create its own content. It is
(10:05):
shador and people can then comment on what's been commented on,
and I think that once you saw how that played
out in the lead up to the NFL Draft, they're
just continuing along that along that pathway. He is interesting,
he's compelling. There's a lot of different facets of what's
going on. And then the Browns being the Browns with
you one hundred having a roster full of quarterbacks and
(10:26):
then a few other players. That makes it all the
more interesting. So I'm not really surprised by it, and
I'm okay with it because there is a lot to
discuss there. If there is anything to debate, it's this
guy that was being talked about one way a year ago, Brian,
and now is being talked about in completely different light. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
No, when you break it down like that, it does
make a lot of sense because it's much deeper than
this guy's a fifth round pick who's fourth string right now,
maybe third string by time Week one rolls around.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's way deeper than that. That's just surface level.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
And when you have a guy like Shadur Sanders that
just drives opinions far and wide, it's the perfect storm
to have a conversation like what other player is driving
conversation like that? Maybe Caleb Williams with the Bears. A
lot of people have.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
That's the other one.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Yes, yes, yes, But outside of that, what we got,
we got Matthew Stafford's back injury. That's not driving conversation, right,
So when you think about it like that, it does
make sense that we spend as much time talking about
Shadeur as we do.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, I mean, I think that the unknown creates a
lot of possibilities, and there's a lot unknown, and then
there are opinions on both sides of that divide predicting
what the unknown is going to be. And I do
think Caleb is the other one. And I imagine we're
going to talk about Caleb before the end of the show.
So I think right now, you're just kind of in
(11:57):
that sort of holding pattern before this. And yeah, there'll
be a few things that crop up and some things
in the preseason that will create some talking points, but
there was already a built in storyline and a built
in discussion point surrounding Shador Sanders before we ever even
got here. I mean, we were talking about that before
(12:18):
he was drafted, then that of course when he was
drafted in the afternoon on that Saturday, and then we're
still talking about it now because you don't have to
see this guy play football to have an opinion on
how this guy is going to behave once he does
start playing football.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
You know, when you think about it, a lot of
similarities with Caleb Williams. Yes, right, like he was talked
about like crazy in college and that just transferred right
to the NFL. Imagine if Caleb Williams, on top of
driving all that college conversation, had a famous father who
was like this NFL Hall of Famer coaching him at USC,
(12:52):
you know what I mean. And then boat press though,
you got something huge right there, but it still was
very big with Caleb without the fame his father. You know,
it's not like he was a defensive back or we
just know that his dad is very opinionated and.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
All that type of stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But kind of similar if you think about Caleb and
Shaduur some similarities, not all, but some things are common.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Hi. This is Jay.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
I'm the producer of the Paula and Tony Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on Sports Magical. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camps.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
The get Him Fool.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Listen to the Tony Fusco Show on the iHeart Radio
app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
He's still moving. We're gonna do quite a lot here
to open up our number two, some names you might recognize,
and a talking point about what that actually means. We
get to it in just a minute. It is indeed,
two pros and a cup of Joe. They're out today.
Brian Knows with me. I'm Jason Martin hour number two
(14:16):
of the program. Glad to have you with us. All right,
be a lot of football on this show, because well
football is coming, which means we have something to talk about.
We have a lot to talk about. As a matter
of fact, I don't know how your summer has gone.
I don't know how what sports have had your attention?
Have been watching baseball? What have you been watching this summer?
Anything new compel you? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I watch a little baseball.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I watch WNBA all the freaking time, jmart all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I love to man, I watch it. Get enough.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I didn't know you're into it too.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
That's great. Dvring it left, right, and center.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, man, I was watching last night, but I was
watching let me think a bunch of games. I was
watching the Sky and the Sun. I was watching the Storm.
I thought the Storm it was the right side. I
hit up Jeff Schwartz, you know, we do a show
on Sundays, and I was like, it's a little risky.
You know, Storm have lost five in a row. The
uh the dream of won five in a row. But
(15:17):
I laid out my reasoning and it was dead wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
But yeah, I've liked it a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
We saw the the Aces beat the Liberty a pretty
good game one by six. I'm all over it, man,
I'm watching games left and right.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Wait a second, I gotta I gotta ask, now, are
we being sarcastic here?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
No?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Were we talking legit here?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I watch it all the time, all the time.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I'm okay, all right, I was being sarcastic about it.
Just said I've put that out and put that I
love that.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
You.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It got to a point where you're like, wait a minute,
he I think he's serious right now?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah? Like I was like, wait, he's selling this awfully
effectively right now?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
No, I do I watch I've.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Got the oh man, the League pass on YouTube is
the worst freaking thing I've ever bought in my life.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I don't know what it is, bought WNBA League pass
I have.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, it's only like thirteen bucks a month or something
like that. But if I'm on my phone or my tablet,
almost every time they go to commercial. Think how many
times a basketball game goes to commercial it crashes. It'll
just crash, and then I try to put it back
on and it'll crash and you got to exit.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It's a nightmare, dude. It's terrible.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I don't know why. I don't know why. It's that
it's YouTube, right, Like everything I've had on YouTube is good.
Not the WNBA package. It is awful. Man, it's bad.
It crashes constantly.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Wow. I still am like trying to make sure you're
not being sarcastic, but you've now sold it to a
point where I think it's legit.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
No, it is absolutely I watch games all the time.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Wow, did you expect that coming into this year?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
No, it really it's because of Caitlin I.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
That's when I started watching the WNBA and then you know,
I for count down, like we'll make picks, you know,
I'll bet on the WNBA. So I've just paid attention
this whole time basically because like the last year and
a half. Other than that, I've probably watched five minutes
of the WNBA before the last year and a half,
but now I watch it all the time.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Wow. Well, I mean good, I mean I guess good.
It's given you something to care about. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Other than you know, I'll watch baseball here and there,
but I'm really counting down toward football.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Make no mistake, you know. Once ball is here. Different story.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
This has been the summer or the year of f
one for me. Oh really, okay, I've gotten into that
one big time. I just like made a decision at
the beginning of the year. I was like, I'm just
gonna try to get into this. It's something different because
you don't talk about it on You don't talk about
it as part of your job like a lot of
this stuff. Everything you see is can I get eight
thirteen really solid minutes out of X, Y and ze? Right?
(17:52):
Not to escape It is for a lot of other people, though, Man,
you get to watch sports all the times, like right,
But there's it's not quite the same for us as
it is for others. But with F one, I know
I'm not really gonna be talking about it, so I've
kind of been able to approach it just like a fan,
like I'm learning the sport, I'm learning the drivers, I'm
learning the history. I've gotten deep into it, like it's
(18:13):
become kind of my thing, and it's carried me through summer,
even though they're in a midsummer break. But I've absolutely
loved it. It's gotten me and it's gonna be going
on during football. But I've already bought you know, F
one TV premium for the year and everything else. So
it's just you know, interesting, you're watching WNBA, I'm watching
F one.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
That's cool, man.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And you know you don't turn the sports radio host
brain off completely.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I know you're the same. That's just how you're wired.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
So I guarantee you're watching F one and you're putting
together these opinions and these thoughts as if whatever that's
gonna lead the second hour of your upcoming show, and
then it dawns on you like, wait.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
A minute, I'm not gonna talk about.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
It at all, and then you can just sit there
and watch it and enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Sure, Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I've got another friend who has worked for me in
sports talk since day one, and guess what, he's also
a hu Jeff one foot, and so we talk about
it together just amongst each other. It's like, we're never
gonna do anything with this. We could just be a
fan of something again. It's kind of cool. It's still
a sports, it's still sports, but we know it's not
gonna be that thing. Speaking of leading the second hour,
(19:18):
I'm gonna give you a list of guys real quick,
and I'm gonna see I bet you can figure this
out because you're a pretty bright guy, Brian, as to
why I'm or what these guys have in common with
one another? Okay, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Yep,
(19:39):
Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence, Bryce Young, Caleb Williams, and Cam Ward.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
They're all number one overall.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Picks YEP since twenty fifteen outside of Burrow, and then
I guess I would say probably Jared Goff. How many
of those have like become true number one pick material.
You might look at Baker and feel okay about it,
But the reason I'm talking about is because of Kleb.
(20:09):
Because Kyle Brandt of the NFL Network. I guess that's
now he is me. I don't know at this point
in time. Maybe we'll talk about that for the end
of the hour, because I definitely have takes.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But he's on NFL Network Red Zone I think, is.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, whatever, just don't touch red zone, police, please don't
ruin it. He said that year two for a quarterback
is now the new year five, and there's a lot
of truth to that, right like the by the time
you get to year two, the expectations are year five
or it's like cutbait with this guy and let's go
(20:44):
get somebody else. And we've seen that. But you look
at you know, Bryce Young going into year three and
Trevor Lawrence is what he is at this point in time,
and is it going to get better than what it is?
I don't know. Is Liam Cohen gonna unlock Trevor Lawrence
the way that people thought he was coming out of Clemson.
I don't know. But you look at some of these
other guys, either journeymen, or they've had to have kind
(21:07):
of a second life, or they've had contracts about playing
call of duty or all of these other things. Doesn't
seem like much of this number one pick stuff has
worked out for a lot of these guys. Not that
that has always I mean, that's kind of always been
the case historically, it's been a bit of a crap shoot.
But I just I am fascinated by Caleb Williams and
(21:30):
how people seem to be incredibly negative on him before
the start of year two, And I just look at
him and Trevor Lawrence and say, we might be looking
at the same career here between these two guys, considering
how bad year one was from a coaching standpoint for
Trevor when he came into the league, and what I
(21:51):
think was an all time blunder by the Chicago Bears
a season ago to let Caleb flounder under a defensive mind,
head coach that didn't have what it took to stay
in that job.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah. I think what's interesting is if you go back
to the year two is the new year five?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
It depends on what you're specifically talking about, at least
in my mind, because that could be absolutely the truth
for expectations.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You know, certainly for Caleb Williams.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
You look at what they've surrounded him with, You've got
a better interior offensive line. They bring in three new dudes.
You have a brand new head coach, offensive minded head coach,
and Caleb Williams has weapons all around to throw to.
If you look at a supporting cast, there are no excuses,
it's freaking go time right now. So yeah, Like, in
(22:42):
terms of expectations, I buy that when he's surrounded by
top ten picks. Romadoonsay is a top ten pick, Colston
Loveland is a top ten pick, and then you've got
DJ Moore who's pretty good, and you've got Luther Burden
who's the second rounder. Cole Kamed is still there the
other tight end, he's the second rounder. You've got plenty
(23:02):
of talent to be good. So in terms of expectations,
I do buy that. Where year two is more like
the new year five in terms of production, I think
that's a different argument because even though the expectations might
be like year five esque, I don't know that the
production necessarily will be. And if you look at a
(23:22):
couple of quarterbacks that stand out, even if year two
is lagging in terms of great production, it doesn't mean
it's over, you know what I mean. Like Baker Mayfield
is a good example of that Baker Mayfield has brought
his career back to life. The last two years in Tampa,
Sam Darnold, you look at his year one, two, three,
(23:44):
four number they're hideous. And last year with Minnesota he
revived his career. Also thirty touchdown passes. He had a
big year statistically until the final two games. But the
point is, yeah, I buy the expectations year two is
the new year five. I wouldn't buy that the production
like year two is the new year five, because I
(24:05):
think even if you're faltering early in your career, if
you guys have proven that you can rejuvenate your career
well down the line. Geno Smith is another guy. He
didn't start for six years and now he's a starter.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
So it can be done.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, No, I mean, it definitely can be done. The
one thing about the Caleb Williams experience that I find
interesting from the outside looking in is this, what if
Ben Johnson's not good?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
M Yeah, I mean possible.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
It seems like everybody has just pinned in, like sharp
eied in, that he's going to be great. There's been
a lot of offensive coordinators that have been red hot
names that haven't been great when they've gotten to the
head coach role. Some of them are just excellent coordinators
and they find their way back into those roles and
find success again. But they're not meant to be head coaches.
I'm not suggesting Ben Johnson has given off vibes of
(24:57):
somebody that's not going to be good. But what if
he's not as good as people think he is going
to be? Then what who's going to take the blame here?
Because I tend to think it's going to be the
quarterback first and not the coach.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
No, that's a great point, And you know what it
makes me think of, too, is it's certainly possible that
Ben Johnson is a great offensive coordinator and he's a
mediocre at best head coach.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
That's possible. The funny thing is we always.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Do this where it's like, hey man, Caleb Williams, he
needs an offensive minded head coach, and it's like that, maybe,
I mean, it's not set in stone that he's going
to have success just because he has an offensive minded
head coach.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
If you look at last year, look at.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Jaden Daniels, he's got dan Quinn. Dan Quinn's a defensive
minded head coach. Russell Wilson had a ton of success
in Seattle with Pete Carroll, defensive minded head coach. Look
at Brady like they had Belichick, right, the defensive minded
head coach. That's their background. So this idea that, oh,
you got a young quarterback, you gotta have a right
(26:00):
offensive minded head coach, not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
And so there are.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Defensive minded head coaches that have success. And just because
you have an offensive guy at head coach doesn't mean ohpoof,
here we go, instant success. It's not a given that
it works out that way.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
No. I mean Mike Vrabel is another example, and you
could potentially see what that's gonna look like in New England.
I think they're going to take steps in the right direction.
The one advantage for Ben Johnson though, is Dennis Allen. Yeah,
because Ben Johnson I would think it's gonna be very
hands off from a defensive standpoint, right if he focuses
on his side of the ball. Dennis Allen has not
(26:38):
proven that he can't be a great defensive coordinator. He's
just proven. Don't give that guy the keys to the
entire football team. Of course. I mean he literally just
was the head coach of the most boring football team
I've ever watched in the National Football League, Like, I
can't imagine that. And look, I think they are completely
boring this year too, but at least Kellen Moore. I
(27:00):
want to see what Kellen Moore can do from an
offensive from just kind of changing the way everything is
done there with a new quarterback and whatever they're going
to be. But they don't have like the skill talent
to your point that the Bears do. They don't have
a lot of that. They don't have a lot of
those flashy guys. So what exactly that's gonna look like.
I don't know, but I think that's another example, right,
(27:20):
Like Kellen Moore ran an incredibly fun to watch offense
that was prolific and up and down the field and
was almost impossible to stop. And now he's gonna go there.
And I don't think anybody is acting like Kellen Moore
is a shoe in. They're not even thinking about Kellen
Moore because you're looking at everything around him. I just
feel like the way to the world appears to be
(27:42):
more on Caleb Shoulders than it does this head coach
who's never been a head coach before. There's a possibility
that either one of those two guys could falter.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, now, you're right.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
It's funny because they they both could be great for
each other, they both could be horrible for each other.
You know, maybe Ben Johnson he doesn't have this head
coaching thing figured out quite yet in year one, that's
certainly possible. And maybe Caleb Williams he doesn't have this
quarterback thing quite figured out in year two.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
That's also possible.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
But as bright as Ben Johnson is, maybe he can
put Caleb Williams in some better positions, better offensive line.
Caleb's not getting sacked sixty eight times. I could see
it going both ways for the Bears. I could see
them taking a significant step forward led by Caleb Williams.
I could see Caleb remaining similar to year one and
(28:33):
they're taking no major step forward at all. I think
both are completely reasonable to happen this season.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Okay, j Mart, So I'm going to get to man.
Have you checked out the QB tiers thing with Mike Sando.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
The Sando piece. I haven't gotten all the way through it,
but I have started to kind of go through it.
I used to have him on every year to cool
yeah when it came out. Always a lot to discuss
and debate coming out of that.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Thing, Oh big time.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
There are some comments on the QB Tiers list, so
it's just basically ranking all these NFL quarterbacks. Are they
in Tier one, the top tier, all the way down
to Tier five the worst tier? And some of the
anonymous quotes are like, what there's something about your guy
Bo Nicks.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I'm going to get to in a few minutes. But
there's also this debate.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
It's sort of connected to the tiers list, but they're
talking about who's the fifth best quarterback in the NFL, where,
in no certain order, most people have Mahomes Josh, Allen, Burrow,
and Lamar most have them in the top four some
sort of you know, differing order of the four guys.
(30:01):
But then the question becomes who's number five, Who's fifth
best in the NFL? And you could throw a couple
of names out there. One name that has been thrown
out by quite a bit of quite a few people
is Jalen Hurts, and I'm curious to what you think, Jason.
I am not in the Jalen Hurts is the top
five quarterback way of thinking, so he wears number one.
(30:24):
I've got number one, not in the top five. And
for a few reasons here, I just look at Jalen
Hurts and you can't discount how much talent the guy
has around him. I actually have Jayden Daniels, the Washington
Commander's quarterback, over Jalen Hurts right now. And you might
look at me sideways like Brian, Jalen Hurts just want
a super Bowl? Yeah, that's right, because it's a much
better supporting cast. You tell me, You tell me with
(30:47):
a straight face, Jason. If Jaden Daniels is the Eagles
quarterback with all that talent around him, forget about it.
He's putting up huge numbers. They're still winning at a
high clip. I wouldn't be shocked if they want a
Super Bowl with him as a rookie.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
If he's on that team.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Now, if you put Jalen Hurts with the Washington Commanders,
that's not too sexy, right there. No two thousand yard
running back, no top five wide receiver, no number two
scoring defense. You know it's the old Uh, it's the
old line and taken good. Yeah, good luck with that.
I don't see Jalen Hurts having even close to the
(31:28):
same success. I don't see that team winning a ton
of games. I just don't see that. I don't think
Jalen Hurts is productive on that level. So I don't
have him as a top five guy. What do you
say to that? Do you have Hurts as the number
five guy or you go elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I mean, I know who they have. I wouldn't have
it there either, just because of age and just I
don't know if he's going to be available enough during
the year. I actually would probably put Jayden Daniels at five.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Personally to the point about Hurts, my broadcast partner on
our Saturday program, Aaron Taures, has said that Jayalen Hurts
has become the new Dak Prescott in terms of how
he's talked about and how he has discussed, and I
think there is truth to that. However, I think Jaywen
Hurts is an incredible leader. I think he's a better
(32:18):
leader and a dude that you want to go to
war with. I think that he's stronger in that than
he is some of the nuts and bolts of being
an NFL quarterback. As an athlete. We know what he
is as a thrower. At times, it can look good.
At times, it certainly looks a lot better than it
did in college. He has worked hard to get better,
(32:39):
and he has gotten better. I would go to war
with Jaywen Hurts and feel pretty good about it most
of the time. But to your point, I think from
and I also think that Jayden Daniels has proven out
to be a pretty good leader. I mean, LSU might
have won three games if he hadn't been quarterback man
the year that he won the Heisman Trophy. I think
he's he's kind of a different guy. Like I know
(32:59):
how we felt about c J. Stroud after year one,
and then CJ he took a bit of a step back.
But I also he dealt with a lot of injuries
and I think he took some unfair critique. There was
some more tape on him, and he might not have
been as sure of himself throwing the ball. I still
believe in CJ. Stroud. I think he is likely to
have a good year this year, and I still like
his prospects from his career but if you start to
(33:21):
look at these other guys you mentioned, mahomes Boro, Allen Jackson, Yeah,
they're all going to be there. Then they have Stafford,
and that's where I'm just kind of I'm not as sure.
So to your question directly, yes, I have Jayden Daniels
above Jayalen Hurts. I have a hard time with some
of the names, some of the other names, like they've
got Justin Herbert and Jared Goff both above Jalen Hurts
(33:44):
as well. That's where I'm not assured, because I've also
seen Jared Goff play pretty poorly in games that have
knocked his team out of the playoffs a few times
in a row. I feel like Jayalen Hurts deserves more
respect than to be beneath probably Goff and certainly a
Herbert that to me has just not done anything yet.
(34:06):
And he, to me, is still one of the more
fascinating discussions in the NFL because I am constantly told
how great he is, yet he still hasn't won anything.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
It's funny, right, because you can look at what is
You can look at all these quarterbacks on their teams
with their exact supporting casts or you could do something
maybe a little more dangerous, right, which is if you
do the swap thing. I just keep going back to
Jalen Hurts is driving a luxury automobile, you.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Know what I mean, and he only has to do
so much.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
I remember, you know, a long time ago, Shannon Sharp
was talking about the Denver Broncos and this is like
ninety seven ninety eight when they're winning back to back
championships and John Elway was hurt for about four games
and Bubby Brister was the backup quarterback and I've got
audio somewhere, but he is. And Shannon Sharp was on
(35:02):
NFL Networks America's game and he was.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Like, Bubby, this is a sports car.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Okay, just as long as you don't strip the gears,
you know, like, just keep this thing.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
On the highway, We're gonna be fine. Just don't screw
it up. That's basically where Jalen Hurts is.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
With as much talent as around him, he is driving
a high priced luxury sports car and justin Herbert, I
don't want to make it sound like it's the most
broken down JALOPPI there is, but he doesn't have surrounding him.
What Jalen Hurts does and that matters. So if you
look at it from that standpoint, it changes things a bit.
(35:37):
Even though what you said is on point as well.
Justin Herbert he doesn't have any postseason success to speak of.
He's had some stinkers. He had a couple of big
turnovers in the last playoff game against the Texans. So
you could look at it as is, or you could
start saying, hey, that's an interesting way to look at
the supporting cast and how much it means for the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's something to that.
I mean, again, as good as Herbert is from just
a nuts and bolts standpoint of the things that you
want to do to be quarterback and has the arm
and has all those things, like how many guys have
become a whole lot better because he's been their quarterback.
I haven't seen that yet. And this is not me
being like total naysayer on Justin Herbert. I see the
(36:21):
talent too, I just need to see it actually translate
to something like we give guys like Lamar and Josh
Allen a lot of crap because they haven't made it
to a super Bowl yet and deservedly so, because the
expectations get higher for guys like that. But it seems
like Herbert hasn't been held to that metric as much.
And I wonder if that would start to shift if
(36:42):
this year, you know, we start to see I mean,
this is year two with Harball, and you should see
another step this year. You shouldn't see running in place,
And you know, I just want to stop seeing the
treadmill effect with him.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
No, I get it, I totally get it. And that's
the funny thing is I think he can make like
valid points on both sides because I look at Herbert
and if you're like, okay, let's go in benefit.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Of the doubt mode, you know, like, what does he
have around him?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
If you look at last year, he had Lad McConkie,
who was a daisy fresh rookie who was fantastic last season.
And what you know, you had Will Disley who he
had some decent games but got banged up. You had
Quinton Johnston who can't catch.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
At all, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Like, that's not what Jalen Hurts has around him. So
I don't want to make excuses left and right for Herbert.
You're right, he's got to do a lot more than
he has done, but at the same rate, the supporting
cast matters. I always point to Draymond Green. You know,
Draymond Green on the Wizards, he's an average role player
who gets thrown out of a lot more games. Yeah,
(37:51):
you've never heard of him before, But Draymond with the Warriors,
he's a Hall of Famer. Like, what you're surrounded by
matters a whole lot. This is the part of the
QB Tiers that made me do a little John. You know,
he's famous for saying that's right. I saw this comment.
I couldn't believe it. So there's a coach, a mystery coach,
(38:12):
somewhere in the NFL, lurking behind a fence post or something,
and he says he thinks that bow knicks your guy.
The Broncos could overtake Jaden Daniels this season. Now this
is the comment. I get where he's coming from. But
so this is the QB Tiers. Mike Sando interviews all
(38:34):
these coaches, executives, GMS, all these guys, and they have
anonymous quotes about quarterbacks. And this was the one from
a mystery coach that said, what we are going to
see is Sean Payton's ability to develop a quarterback relative
to Cliff Kingsbury's ability to do that. Both players, meaning
bow Knicks and Jayden Daniels, appear to be dialed into
(38:56):
the profession of quarterbacking, taking care of the body.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Come in early, leaving late being all about ball.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I'm interested in seeing who is able to grow the
most this coming year. I actually think bow Knicks is
going to win out in that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Wow, do you see bow Knicks overtaking Jaden Daniels this season?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
No, I don't even know. I mean, I feel good
about bo going into year two. Everything I've heard has
been really positive. I love that he has spent time
with Drew Brees in the offseason as well, like he
clearly is committed to this, and just what you hear
about what Sean Payton felt about him prior to the draft,
you just feel like he's in a really good situation.
(39:42):
At the same time, I don't know how much Cliff
Kingsbury needs to develop Jaden Daniels, because Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Just has it right right.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
So I don't know that this is as much about
I don't know that I need to put so much
on Cliff Kingsbury's shoulders. I might feel differently if this
were like a Caleb Williams conversation and we were talking
about Cliff Kingsbury because there was still some development that
needed to be done. In Chicago, you actually got regression
because you didn't have anybody there that could help him
(40:11):
develop and work on some of those things and feel
more confident in them. But as it relates to this,
I I like that that you're thinking about Bonnicks in
that way, if you are this person, right, But I
think that's a bridge too far. I think that's the
kind of thing you have to let happen, but not predict,
because there's just not enough. There's no reason to believe that.
(40:33):
I don't. I could see Washington take a mild step
back this year, just because I think they flew really,
really high last year. But there's no reason to think
that Jaden Daniels is really coming back down to earth,
because it's not as if what he was doing was
a gimmick, like, it's just he's just good at the position.
So no, I don't. I don't. I don't think that
(40:56):
he's gonna end up better than Daniels. I don't I
do think he's going to finish the season a very
strong number two from last year's class. I think that's
fair because I'm not sure about Pennix and there's still
a lot of question marks about Kleb Williams in this situation.
But I think that it's disrespectful to say anything other
than Jadon Daniels is on a completely different plane right
(41:18):
now than the rest of those guys.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
Yeah, he really is. That's how special he was last season.
And that's the thing is. I think that you could
make this argument with you know, a quarterbacks current team.
Could Bo Nicks be more productive throwing the ball?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (41:35):
You just look at last season, bow Knicks had four
more touchdown passes and three more interceptions, right, like they're
in the same zip code. Throwing the ball like bo
Nicks had more passing yards. You could look at them,
you know, this way, that way, all across the board.
The difference is rushing yards. Jaden Daniels just an absolute playmaker.
Bo Knicks can move around too, he's an athlete. But
(41:58):
Jaden Daniels, I think that, Hey, could Bo Knicks be
more productive with the Broncos and Sean Payton this season?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
In certain categories. I think he could. He was last year,
so I think he could do it again or maybe
even grow a little bit. But then I think there's
an argument, okay, forget about their current team, on any team,
you know what I mean, Like who's better than who?
Jayden Daniels is the class of that draft so far,
and I think bow Knicks He's got a longer. That's
(42:26):
that's a high hill to climb to be like the
guy of the class over Jaden Daniels. I just I
don't see Bo Knicks exceeding as much as Jayden Daniels
falls back. I just I don't think that he's close
enough to pass him up in year two. I just
don't see that happening.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I think both of them are going to have good years.
I think both those football teams ought to have pretty
good years. But yeah, I just I think that you
got to get to the end of the season say wow,
Bo Nicks somehow ended up with a better season than
Jayde Daniels. I feel like that's the kind of quote
you say that you're not going to be to account
for because it's anonymous, and it's perfect for Mike Sando
(43:04):
or anybody that wants to put an article like this
together because it's instant debate. It's exactly right for the
way that sports media is done now.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
I could just see him doing a Tiger Woods fist pump, like, Yeah,
that's what we're talking about right there.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
That's right, that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
That's right.
Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe
with Lamar Airings and grating Win and Jonas Knox on
four Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Oh what is going on? Happy Thursday to you, man,
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
J Mark.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Great to be with you. We are inching our way
towards ball.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We are just a little over a week away until
we get college football.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
That week zero sucks. It's a horrible slate of games.
I'm not gonna try.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
And tell you it's awesome, but it's ball nevertheless, and
then the week after Week one in college football we
got some great matchups and the NFL not too long
after that. Man, can you feel it? Can you feel
it in the air? Ball is right around the corner?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
J Martin? Oh yeah, I mean the only thing that
I can't feel yet is the temperature that I want
to accompany the ball that is around the corner. Because
of Nashville. It's just been an insanely, insanely hot just
in crazy hot summer. We're like plus ninety five for
the next seven days with one oh five plus heat indexes.
(01:07):
So it doesn't feel like ball. Well, I mean, it
feels like two days and in high school and all
that kind of stuff. But it doesn't feel like ball weather.
But we're getting there. We are getting there until I
think that's gonna be. The bonus is it's going to
be temperate again and I can walk outside without feeling
like a heat stroke.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Is thereby there you go, Okay, nice and yeah, if
you're into the cooler temperatures, ball signifies cooler temperatures, you know,
So if that's your thing right there, it won't be
insufferable with the summer temperatures. But this is the one
thing that caught my attention the most and I wanted
to dive in it with you. Brown's quarterback Shoulder Sanders,
(01:43):
speaking of ball, played well in his preseason debut last week. Well,
he suffered an oblique strain here Shane mart that was
in practice on Wednesday, and so he's unlikely to play
on Saturday. That was the next preseason game at the Eagles,
So it looks like he's not gonna be out on
the field.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So the first question is where does this leave Shauduur.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
On the depth chart as we inch closer to the
regular season. How do you think it's going to shake
out for the Browns leading up to Week one? If
you look at your you know, you look at the
crystal ball. What do you think in order one, two, three, four,
I don't know, question mark there, what do you think
it looks like come week one for the browns QB
depth chart.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, I mean it's We knew this was going to
be a bit convoluted. This was going to be the
television series where you had to watch every episode and
then read seven or eight different think pieces in order
to understand what was going on here. I mean, obviously,
Shaudor helped himself out a lot by what he did
in the first preseason game. It wasn't like the most
(02:47):
magical performance ever, but it showcased the kind of stuff
that you saw him do in college and the kind
of stuff that you would hope he was going to
be able to duplicate any NFL. I just look at
the I've looked at that scenario the whole time and
just kind of thought, I'm not sure why we aren't
looking at Shador as early as week one. Honestly, I
feel like it's probably likely to be somebody that's more
(03:09):
veteran than that. But if you're trying to get me
to stack the entire thing, man that's a difficult task
to do. If it's me doing it, I might just
throw Shador out there, quite frankly. But if I'm really
trying to figure out how it's going to shake out.
I know that originally Dylan Gabriel was being looked at
as being higher. I doubt that's going to be the
case by the time we get there, unless there's going
(03:30):
to be more incidents that we don't know exactly, And
then of course you have it's that little oblique injury.
It's nothing major from Shador, so that could obviously throw
some things into a wrench. So I'm not sure exactly
what we're looking at in terms of what I think
is going to happen. I think it's easier for me
to say, as long as he's healthy, I might like
(03:53):
to throw Shador out there and see what he can
do week one, because I just don't think this is
a year where Cleveland's going to be a factor. I
think it's more likely that this should be an experimental
year where you try to see what you can get
and see what you have on that roster as early
as possible, as opposed to going in thinking that you're
competing for a playoff spot.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah, I think, well, it's two separate things, and I
like how you thought of it, what you would do
and what the Browns might do. It's much easier to
figure out what you would do. What the Browns are
gonna do. Who knows, man, they're a wild card. They're
a walking, walking wild card over there. I think it'll
resemble close to what it is right now. Flacco is
going to be the Week one starter they host the Bengals.
(04:35):
He's got a lot more experience that I don't think
they hit the ground running week one with Shaduur. I mean,
he's not even getting first team reps. You know, he's
not getting many reps in practice period, you know, so
I doubt they would throw them to the Wolves in
week one. I get your reasoning. I just don't think
that's what they would do. So I would say I'd
go Flacco. It's probably gonna be almost exactly what it
(04:56):
is right now. It's probably gonna be Flacco pick it.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't know if.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Gabriel is gonna get on the field this weekend, you know,
if he's healthy enough to do so. Because if he
gets on the field against the Eagles and he plays well,
he's probably gonna stay ahead of Shador, so it might
go Gabriel and then Shaduur. Or maybe they mix it
up and say we're not gonna keep four quarterbacks, let's
deal Kenny Pickett. Maybe they would do something like that,
But I don't think they would let one of the
(05:23):
rookies go just yet.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I don't see that happening.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I think that when
I look at it, Flacco is obviously just kind of
there to bridge, but it's not even a long term bridge.
I don't even think it's a half season bridge. I
agree with you. I think that's probably the most likely scenario,
especially against a division a division rival and a division opponent,
(05:46):
put somebody in there that's that's obviously seen his share
even in that division, to go even further into it.
I do look at it. It's a tough spot, honestly
for the rookies to be in, just because you have
a another one there. That scenario doesn't happen too often.
And then on top of that, there's two other guys
above that have at least starting experience in the league.
(06:07):
I'm not pretty I'm not big at all on picket
at this stage, but it would make sense at least
for right now for him to be where he is
on the depth chart. I just continue to look at
Shador and I'm like, man, why are you not in
New Orleans? Man? Because I haven't heard and seen very
much good about Tyler Shuck coming out of New Orleans.
It's just like there seemed to be other places where
(06:28):
he could have gone and not had seventeen quarterbacks that
he was competing with. It just seems like it seems
like the Browns created a problem needlessly, and I'm waiting
for them to sign another quarterback in the next couple
of weeks based on their act.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Right Well, yeah, that's the thing, man is there are
a few teams and we'll see where it goes. It
was a good preseason debut for Shador. I know you
and I aren't going crazy like he's going to be
the next big star based on this.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't think he can blow it out of proportion.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
The guy has talent, and there are to your point,
there are some teams that bypass Shador and they don't
have a quarterback of the now or the future on
the roster. The Jets don't have one the Steelers at
least have a quarterback for this year, not the future.
Look at what's happening with the Colts, the Radas they
get a bridge quarterback in Geno. There are a lot
(07:20):
of teams that passed on Shador, and not just the
first round, like second, third, fourth, that could have been
in a better position with Shadur and they elected not to.
This is the other thing I was thinking about, Jason Martin,
Brian Know with you here in for two Pros and
a Cup of Joe on Fox Sports Radio, do you
think it makes sense that Shador Sanders is the biggest
(07:41):
story in the NFL right now, because for sure he is.
There's not another guy that is getting talked about as
much in terms of on the field. Maybe we're talking
about Michaeh Parsons contract, but in terms of driving opinions
and driving content all over the place, he's the guy.
(08:01):
And I think you could look at it one of
two ways, j Martin, and both sides make some sense.
You could look at it and say, no, it doesn't
make any sense at all.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
He's listed as.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
A fourth string quarterback right now. He's not gonna be
the starter. Best case, he's the backups. Backup, or you
could say, yeah, it makes total sense. He's basically Bronnie
James with talent, right, He's got a famous dad. There
are a lot of people that dislike his flash for
whatever reason. Everybody has an opinion, So yeah, it makes
(08:31):
sense that he's the biggest story in the NFL right now,
which way do you look at it, Probably the latter.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I mean I think that once you saw how that
pre draft process kind of kicked into gear, you saw
a cow that could be milked, and I think that's
kind of what it's been, and there hasn't been. You
can correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not a
whole lot else just right now that's particularly interesting. Yeah,
there's gonna be storyline after storyline obviously once we get
(09:01):
to the season. But to your point, outside of the
Michael Parsons contract thing, which is just Jerry Jones finding
a way to stay relevant in the offseason and have
people talking about him, I mean, it's not like a
bunch of guys have been saying stuff about one another.
There's not a lot of disputes out there. It's just
the usual, right, It's the preseason predictions for the season,
(09:22):
Like we're starting to see that, and of course the
fantasy stuff is starting to ramp up a little bit
now and we're just trying to dodge injuries in the preseason.
But I mean, I'm trying to think of something else
that there's really meat on the bone, and mine has
always been the same, It's in the same division. It's
just that I think Pittsburgh's going to have a bad
year this year, and that's got the Aaron Rodgers effect.
(09:44):
But you can only talk about that so much, and
I think that people kind of exhausted all the talking
points for now, except I guess now he's talking about
the helmet, so I guess you could potentially discuss him
saying that the helmet looks like some kind of astronaut
thing or something. But in terms of just something that
creates it seems to create its own content. It is
(10:05):
shador and people can then comment on what's been commented on,
and I think that once you saw how that played
out in the lead up to the NFL Draft, they're
just continuing along that along that pathway. He is interesting,
he's compelling. There's a lot of different facets of what's
going on. And then the Browns being the Browns with
you one hundred having a roster full of quarterbacks and
(10:26):
then a few other players. That makes it all the
more interesting. So I'm not really surprised by it, and
I'm okay with it because there is a lot to
discuss there. If there is anything to debate, it's this
guy that was being talked about one way a year ago, Brian,
and now is being talked about in completely different light. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
No, when you break it down like that, it does
make a lot of sense because it's much deeper than
this guy's a fifth round pick who's fourth string right now,
maybe third string by time Week one rolls around.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's way deeper than that. That's just surface level.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
And when you have a guy like Shadur Sanders that
just drives opinions far and wide, it's the perfect storm
to have a conversation like what other player is driving
conversation like that? Maybe Caleb Williams with the Bears. A
lot of people have.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
That's the other one.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Yes, yes, yes, But outside of that, what we got,
we got Matthew Stafford's back injury. That's not driving conversation, right,
So when you think about it like that, it does
make sense that we spend as much time talking about
Shadeur as we do.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, I mean, I think that the unknown creates a
lot of possibilities, and there's a lot unknown, and then
there are opinions on both sides of that divide predicting
what the unknown is going to be. And I do
think Caleb is the other one. And I imagine we're
going to talk about Caleb before the end of the show.
So I think right now, you're just kind of in
(11:57):
that sort of holding pattern before this. And yeah, there'll
be a few things that crop up and some things
in the preseason that will create some talking points, but
there was already a built in storyline and a built
in discussion point surrounding Shador Sanders before we ever even
got here. I mean, we were talking about that before
(12:18):
he was drafted, then that of course when he was
drafted in the afternoon on that Saturday, and then we're
still talking about it now because you don't have to
see this guy play football to have an opinion on
how this guy is going to behave once he does
start playing football.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
You know, when you think about it, a lot of
similarities with Caleb Williams. Yes, right, like he was talked
about like crazy in college and that just transferred right
to the NFL. Imagine if Caleb Williams, on top of
driving all that college conversation, had a famous father who
was like this NFL Hall of Famer coaching him at USC,
(12:52):
you know what I mean. And then boat press though,
you got something huge right there, but it still was
very big with Caleb without the fame his father. You know,
it's not like he was a defensive back or we
just know that his dad is very opinionated and.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
All that type of stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But kind of similar if you think about Caleb and
Shaduur some similarities, not all, but some things are common.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Hi. This is Jay.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
I'm the producer of the Paula and Tony Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on Sports Magical. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camps.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
The get Him Fool.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Listen to the Tony Fusco Show on the iHeart Radio
app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
He's still moving. We're gonna do quite a lot here
to open up our number two, some names you might recognize,
and a talking point about what that actually means. We
get to it in just a minute. It is indeed,
two pros and a cup of Joe. They're out today.
Brian Knows with me. I'm Jason Martin hour number two
(14:16):
of the program. Glad to have you with us. All right,
be a lot of football on this show, because well
football is coming, which means we have something to talk about.
We have a lot to talk about. As a matter
of fact, I don't know how your summer has gone.
I don't know how what sports have had your attention?
Have been watching baseball? What have you been watching this summer?
Anything new compel you? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I watch a little baseball.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I watch WNBA all the freaking time, jmart all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I love to man, I watch it. Get enough.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I didn't know you're into it too.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
That's great. Dvring it left, right, and center.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, man, I was watching last night, but I was
watching let me think a bunch of games. I was
watching the Sky and the Sun. I was watching the Storm.
I thought the Storm it was the right side. I
hit up Jeff Schwartz, you know, we do a show
on Sundays, and I was like, it's a little risky.
You know, Storm have lost five in a row. The
uh the dream of won five in a row. But
(15:17):
I laid out my reasoning and it was dead wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
But yeah, I've liked it a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
We saw the the Aces beat the Liberty a pretty
good game one by six. I'm all over it, man,
I'm watching games left and right.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Wait a second, I gotta I gotta ask, now, are
we being sarcastic here?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
No?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Were we talking legit here?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I watch it all the time, all the time.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I'm okay, all right, I was being sarcastic about it.
Just said I've put that out and put that I
love that.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
You.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It got to a point where you're like, wait a minute,
he I think he's serious right now?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah? Like I was like, wait, he's selling this awfully
effectively right now?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
No, I do I watch I've.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Got the oh man, the League pass on YouTube is
the worst freaking thing I've ever bought in my life.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I don't know what it is, bought WNBA League pass
I have.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, it's only like thirteen bucks a month or something
like that. But if I'm on my phone or my tablet,
almost every time they go to commercial. Think how many
times a basketball game goes to commercial it crashes. It'll
just crash, and then I try to put it back
on and it'll crash and you got to exit.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It's a nightmare, dude. It's terrible.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I don't know why. I don't know why. It's that
it's YouTube, right, Like everything I've had on YouTube is good.
Not the WNBA package. It is awful. Man, it's bad.
It crashes constantly.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Wow. I still am like trying to make sure you're
not being sarcastic, but you've now sold it to a
point where I think it's legit.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
No, it is absolutely I watch games all the time.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Wow, did you expect that coming into this year?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
No, it really it's because of Caitlin I.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
That's when I started watching the WNBA and then you know,
I for count down, like we'll make picks, you know,
I'll bet on the WNBA. So I've just paid attention
this whole time basically because like the last year and
a half. Other than that, I've probably watched five minutes
of the WNBA before the last year and a half,
but now I watch it all the time.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Wow. Well, I mean good, I mean I guess good.
It's given you something to care about. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Other than you know, I'll watch baseball here and there,
but I'm really counting down toward football.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Make no mistake, you know. Once ball is here. Different story.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
This has been the summer or the year of f
one for me. Oh really, okay, I've gotten into that
one big time. I just like made a decision at
the beginning of the year. I was like, I'm just
gonna try to get into this. It's something different because
you don't talk about it on You don't talk about
it as part of your job like a lot of
this stuff. Everything you see is can I get eight
thirteen really solid minutes out of X, Y and ze? Right?
(17:52):
Not to escape It is for a lot of other people, though, Man,
you get to watch sports all the times, like right,
But there's it's not quite the same for us as
it is for others. But with F one, I know
I'm not really gonna be talking about it, so I've
kind of been able to approach it just like a fan,
like I'm learning the sport, I'm learning the drivers, I'm
learning the history. I've gotten deep into it, like it's
(18:13):
become kind of my thing, and it's carried me through summer,
even though they're in a midsummer break. But I've absolutely
loved it. It's gotten me and it's gonna be going
on during football. But I've already bought you know, F
one TV premium for the year and everything else. So
it's just you know, interesting, you're watching WNBA, I'm watching
F one.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
That's cool, man.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And you know you don't turn the sports radio host
brain off completely.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I know you're the same. That's just how you're wired.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
So I guarantee you're watching F one and you're putting
together these opinions and these thoughts as if whatever that's
gonna lead the second hour of your upcoming show, and
then it dawns on you like, wait.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
A minute, I'm not gonna talk about.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
It at all, and then you can just sit there
and watch it and enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Sure, Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I've got another friend who has worked for me in
sports talk since day one, and guess what, he's also
a hu Jeff one foot, and so we talk about
it together just amongst each other. It's like, we're never
gonna do anything with this. We could just be a
fan of something again. It's kind of cool. It's still
a sports, it's still sports, but we know it's not
gonna be that thing. Speaking of leading the second hour,
(19:18):
I'm gonna give you a list of guys real quick,
and I'm gonna see I bet you can figure this
out because you're a pretty bright guy, Brian, as to
why I'm or what these guys have in common with
one another? Okay, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Yep,
(19:39):
Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence, Bryce Young, Caleb Williams, and Cam Ward.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
They're all number one overall.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Picks YEP since twenty fifteen outside of Burrow, and then
I guess I would say probably Jared Goff. How many
of those have like become true number one pick material.
You might look at Baker and feel okay about it,
But the reason I'm talking about is because of Kleb.
(20:09):
Because Kyle Brandt of the NFL Network. I guess that's
now he is me. I don't know at this point
in time. Maybe we'll talk about that for the end
of the hour, because I definitely have takes.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But he's on NFL Network Red Zone I think, is.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, whatever, just don't touch red zone, police, please don't
ruin it. He said that year two for a quarterback
is now the new year five, and there's a lot
of truth to that, right like the by the time
you get to year two, the expectations are year five
or it's like cutbait with this guy and let's go
(20:44):
get somebody else. And we've seen that. But you look
at you know, Bryce Young going into year three and
Trevor Lawrence is what he is at this point in time,
and is it going to get better than what it is?
I don't know. Is Liam Cohen gonna unlock Trevor Lawrence
the way that people thought he was coming out of Clemson.
I don't know. But you look at some of these
other guys, either journeymen, or they've had to have kind
(21:07):
of a second life, or they've had contracts about playing
call of duty or all of these other things. Doesn't
seem like much of this number one pick stuff has
worked out for a lot of these guys. Not that
that has always I mean, that's kind of always been
the case historically, it's been a bit of a crap shoot.
But I just I am fascinated by Caleb Williams and
(21:30):
how people seem to be incredibly negative on him before
the start of year two, And I just look at
him and Trevor Lawrence and say, we might be looking
at the same career here between these two guys, considering
how bad year one was from a coaching standpoint for
Trevor when he came into the league, and what I
(21:51):
think was an all time blunder by the Chicago Bears
a season ago to let Caleb flounder under a defensive mind,
head coach that didn't have what it took to stay
in that job.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah. I think what's interesting is if you go back
to the year two is the new year five?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
It depends on what you're specifically talking about, at least
in my mind, because that could be absolutely the truth
for expectations.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You know, certainly for Caleb Williams.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
You look at what they've surrounded him with, You've got
a better interior offensive line. They bring in three new dudes.
You have a brand new head coach, offensive minded head coach,
and Caleb Williams has weapons all around to throw to.
If you look at a supporting cast, there are no excuses,
it's freaking go time right now. So yeah, Like, in
(22:42):
terms of expectations, I buy that when he's surrounded by
top ten picks. Romadoonsay is a top ten pick, Colston
Loveland is a top ten pick, and then you've got
DJ Moore who's pretty good, and you've got Luther Burden
who's the second rounder. Cole Kamed is still there the
other tight end, he's the second rounder. You've got plenty
(23:02):
of talent to be good. So in terms of expectations,
I do buy that. Where year two is more like
the new year five in terms of production, I think
that's a different argument because even though the expectations might
be like year five esque, I don't know that the
production necessarily will be. And if you look at a
(23:22):
couple of quarterbacks that stand out, even if year two
is lagging in terms of great production, it doesn't mean
it's over, you know what I mean. Like Baker Mayfield
is a good example of that Baker Mayfield has brought
his career back to life. The last two years in Tampa,
Sam Darnold, you look at his year one, two, three,
(23:44):
four number they're hideous. And last year with Minnesota he
revived his career. Also thirty touchdown passes. He had a
big year statistically until the final two games. But the
point is, yeah, I buy the expectations year two is
the new year five. I wouldn't buy that the production
like year two is the new year five, because I
(24:05):
think even if you're faltering early in your career, if
you guys have proven that you can rejuvenate your career
well down the line. Geno Smith is another guy. He
didn't start for six years and now he's a starter.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
So it can be done.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, No, I mean, it definitely can be done. The
one thing about the Caleb Williams experience that I find
interesting from the outside looking in is this, what if
Ben Johnson's not good?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
M Yeah, I mean possible.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
It seems like everybody has just pinned in, like sharp
eied in, that he's going to be great. There's been
a lot of offensive coordinators that have been red hot
names that haven't been great when they've gotten to the
head coach role. Some of them are just excellent coordinators
and they find their way back into those roles and
find success again. But they're not meant to be head coaches.
I'm not suggesting Ben Johnson has given off vibes of
(24:57):
somebody that's not going to be good. But what if
he's not as good as people think he is going
to be? Then what who's going to take the blame here?
Because I tend to think it's going to be the
quarterback first and not the coach.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
No, that's a great point, And you know what it
makes me think of, too, is it's certainly possible that
Ben Johnson is a great offensive coordinator and he's a
mediocre at best head coach.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
That's possible. The funny thing is we always.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Do this where it's like, hey man, Caleb Williams, he
needs an offensive minded head coach, and it's like that, maybe,
I mean, it's not set in stone that he's going
to have success just because he has an offensive minded
head coach.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
If you look at last year, look at.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Jaden Daniels, he's got dan Quinn. Dan Quinn's a defensive
minded head coach. Russell Wilson had a ton of success
in Seattle with Pete Carroll, defensive minded head coach. Look
at Brady like they had Belichick, right, the defensive minded
head coach. That's their background. So this idea that, oh,
you got a young quarterback, you gotta have a right
(26:00):
offensive minded head coach, not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
And so there are.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Defensive minded head coaches that have success. And just because
you have an offensive guy at head coach doesn't mean ohpoof,
here we go, instant success. It's not a given that
it works out that way.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
No. I mean Mike Vrabel is another example, and you
could potentially see what that's gonna look like in New England.
I think they're going to take steps in the right direction.
The one advantage for Ben Johnson though, is Dennis Allen. Yeah,
because Ben Johnson I would think it's gonna be very
hands off from a defensive standpoint, right if he focuses
on his side of the ball. Dennis Allen has not
(26:38):
proven that he can't be a great defensive coordinator. He's
just proven. Don't give that guy the keys to the
entire football team. Of course. I mean he literally just
was the head coach of the most boring football team
I've ever watched in the National Football League, Like, I
can't imagine that. And look, I think they are completely
boring this year too, but at least Kellen Moore. I
(27:00):
want to see what Kellen Moore can do from an
offensive from just kind of changing the way everything is
done there with a new quarterback and whatever they're going
to be. But they don't have like the skill talent
to your point that the Bears do. They don't have
a lot of that. They don't have a lot of
those flashy guys. So what exactly that's gonna look like.
I don't know, but I think that's another example, right,
(27:20):
Like Kellen Moore ran an incredibly fun to watch offense
that was prolific and up and down the field and
was almost impossible to stop. And now he's gonna go there.
And I don't think anybody is acting like Kellen Moore
is a shoe in. They're not even thinking about Kellen
Moore because you're looking at everything around him. I just
feel like the way to the world appears to be
(27:42):
more on Caleb Shoulders than it does this head coach
who's never been a head coach before. There's a possibility
that either one of those two guys could falter.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, now, you're right.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
It's funny because they they both could be great for
each other, they both could be horrible for each other.
You know, maybe Ben Johnson he doesn't have this head
coaching thing figured out quite yet in year one, that's
certainly possible. And maybe Caleb Williams he doesn't have this
quarterback thing quite figured out in year two.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
That's also possible.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
But as bright as Ben Johnson is, maybe he can
put Caleb Williams in some better positions, better offensive line.
Caleb's not getting sacked sixty eight times. I could see
it going both ways for the Bears. I could see
them taking a significant step forward led by Caleb Williams.
I could see Caleb remaining similar to year one and
(28:33):
they're taking no major step forward at all. I think
both are completely reasonable to happen this season.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Okay, j Mart, So I'm going to get to man.
Have you checked out the QB tiers thing with Mike Sando.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
The Sando piece. I haven't gotten all the way through it,
but I have started to kind of go through it.
I used to have him on every year to cool
yeah when it came out. Always a lot to discuss
and debate coming out of that.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Thing, Oh big time.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
There are some comments on the QB Tiers list, so
it's just basically ranking all these NFL quarterbacks. Are they
in Tier one, the top tier, all the way down
to Tier five the worst tier? And some of the
anonymous quotes are like, what there's something about your guy
Bo Nicks.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I'm going to get to in a few minutes. But
there's also this debate.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
It's sort of connected to the tiers list, but they're
talking about who's the fifth best quarterback in the NFL, where,
in no certain order, most people have Mahomes Josh, Allen, Burrow,
and Lamar most have them in the top four some
sort of you know, differing order of the four guys.
(30:01):
But then the question becomes who's number five, Who's fifth
best in the NFL? And you could throw a couple
of names out there. One name that has been thrown
out by quite a bit of quite a few people
is Jalen Hurts, and I'm curious to what you think, Jason.
I am not in the Jalen Hurts is the top
five quarterback way of thinking, so he wears number one.
(30:24):
I've got number one, not in the top five. And
for a few reasons here, I just look at Jalen
Hurts and you can't discount how much talent the guy
has around him. I actually have Jayden Daniels, the Washington
Commander's quarterback, over Jalen Hurts right now. And you might
look at me sideways like Brian, Jalen Hurts just want
a super Bowl? Yeah, that's right, because it's a much
better supporting cast. You tell me, You tell me with
(30:47):
a straight face, Jason. If Jaden Daniels is the Eagles
quarterback with all that talent around him, forget about it.
He's putting up huge numbers. They're still winning at a
high clip. I wouldn't be shocked if they want a
Super Bowl with him as a rookie.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
If he's on that team.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Now, if you put Jalen Hurts with the Washington Commanders,
that's not too sexy, right there. No two thousand yard
running back, no top five wide receiver, no number two
scoring defense. You know it's the old Uh, it's the
old line and taken good. Yeah, good luck with that.
I don't see Jalen Hurts having even close to the
(31:28):
same success. I don't see that team winning a ton
of games. I just don't see that. I don't think
Jalen Hurts is productive on that level. So I don't
have him as a top five guy. What do you
say to that? Do you have Hurts as the number
five guy or you go elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I mean, I know who they have. I wouldn't have
it there either, just because of age and just I
don't know if he's going to be available enough during
the year. I actually would probably put Jayden Daniels at five.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Personally to the point about Hurts, my broadcast partner on
our Saturday program, Aaron Taures, has said that Jayalen Hurts
has become the new Dak Prescott in terms of how
he's talked about and how he has discussed, and I
think there is truth to that. However, I think Jaywen
Hurts is an incredible leader. I think he's a better
(32:18):
leader and a dude that you want to go to
war with. I think that he's stronger in that than
he is some of the nuts and bolts of being
an NFL quarterback. As an athlete. We know what he
is as a thrower. At times, it can look good.
At times, it certainly looks a lot better than it
did in college. He has worked hard to get better,
(32:39):
and he has gotten better. I would go to war
with Jaywen Hurts and feel pretty good about it most
of the time. But to your point, I think from
and I also think that Jayden Daniels has proven out
to be a pretty good leader. I mean, LSU might
have won three games if he hadn't been quarterback man
the year that he won the Heisman Trophy. I think
he's he's kind of a different guy. Like I know
(32:59):
how we felt about c J. Stroud after year one,
and then CJ he took a bit of a step back.
But I also he dealt with a lot of injuries
and I think he took some unfair critique. There was
some more tape on him, and he might not have
been as sure of himself throwing the ball. I still
believe in CJ. Stroud. I think he is likely to
have a good year this year, and I still like
his prospects from his career but if you start to
(33:21):
look at these other guys you mentioned, mahomes Boro, Allen Jackson, Yeah,
they're all going to be there. Then they have Stafford,
and that's where I'm just kind of I'm not as sure.
So to your question directly, yes, I have Jayden Daniels
above Jayalen Hurts. I have a hard time with some
of the names, some of the other names, like they've
got Justin Herbert and Jared Goff both above Jalen Hurts
(33:44):
as well. That's where I'm not assured, because I've also
seen Jared Goff play pretty poorly in games that have
knocked his team out of the playoffs a few times
in a row. I feel like Jayalen Hurts deserves more
respect than to be beneath probably Goff and certainly a
Herbert that to me has just not done anything yet.
(34:06):
And he, to me, is still one of the more
fascinating discussions in the NFL because I am constantly told
how great he is, yet he still hasn't won anything.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
It's funny, right, because you can look at what is
You can look at all these quarterbacks on their teams
with their exact supporting casts or you could do something
maybe a little more dangerous, right, which is if you
do the swap thing. I just keep going back to
Jalen Hurts is driving a luxury automobile, you.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Know what I mean, and he only has to do
so much.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
I remember, you know, a long time ago, Shannon Sharp
was talking about the Denver Broncos and this is like
ninety seven ninety eight when they're winning back to back
championships and John Elway was hurt for about four games
and Bubby Brister was the backup quarterback and I've got
audio somewhere, but he is. And Shannon Sharp was on
(35:02):
NFL Networks America's game and he was.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Like, Bubby, this is a sports car.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Okay, just as long as you don't strip the gears,
you know, like, just keep this thing.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
On the highway, We're gonna be fine. Just don't screw
it up. That's basically where Jalen Hurts is.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
With as much talent as around him, he is driving
a high priced luxury sports car and justin Herbert, I
don't want to make it sound like it's the most
broken down JALOPPI there is, but he doesn't have surrounding him.
What Jalen Hurts does and that matters. So if you
look at it from that standpoint, it changes things a bit.
(35:37):
Even though what you said is on point as well.
Justin Herbert he doesn't have any postseason success to speak of.
He's had some stinkers. He had a couple of big
turnovers in the last playoff game against the Texans. So
you could look at it as is, or you could
start saying, hey, that's an interesting way to look at
the supporting cast and how much it means for the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's something to that.
I mean, again, as good as Herbert is from just
a nuts and bolts standpoint of the things that you
want to do to be quarterback and has the arm
and has all those things, like how many guys have
become a whole lot better because he's been their quarterback.
I haven't seen that yet. And this is not me
being like total naysayer on Justin Herbert. I see the
(36:21):
talent too, I just need to see it actually translate
to something like we give guys like Lamar and Josh
Allen a lot of crap because they haven't made it
to a super Bowl yet and deservedly so, because the
expectations get higher for guys like that. But it seems
like Herbert hasn't been held to that metric as much.
And I wonder if that would start to shift if
(36:42):
this year, you know, we start to see I mean,
this is year two with Harball, and you should see
another step this year. You shouldn't see running in place,
And you know, I just want to stop seeing the
treadmill effect with him.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
No, I get it, I totally get it. And that's
the funny thing is I think he can make like
valid points on both sides because I look at Herbert
and if you're like, okay, let's go in benefit.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Of the doubt mode, you know, like, what does he
have around him?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
If you look at last year, he had Lad McConkie,
who was a daisy fresh rookie who was fantastic last season.
And what you know, you had Will Disley who he
had some decent games but got banged up. You had
Quinton Johnston who can't catch.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
At all, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Like, that's not what Jalen Hurts has around him. So
I don't want to make excuses left and right for Herbert.
You're right, he's got to do a lot more than
he has done, but at the same rate, the supporting
cast matters. I always point to Draymond Green. You know,
Draymond Green on the Wizards, he's an average role player
who gets thrown out of a lot more games. Yeah,
(37:51):
you've never heard of him before, But Draymond with the Warriors,
he's a Hall of Famer. Like, what you're surrounded by
matters a whole lot. This is the part of the
QB Tiers that made me do a little John. You know,
he's famous for saying that's right. I saw this comment.
I couldn't believe it. So there's a coach, a mystery coach,
(38:12):
somewhere in the NFL, lurking behind a fence post or something,
and he says he thinks that bow knicks your guy.
The Broncos could overtake Jaden Daniels this season. Now this
is the comment. I get where he's coming from. But
so this is the QB Tiers. Mike Sando interviews all
(38:34):
these coaches, executives, GMS, all these guys, and they have
anonymous quotes about quarterbacks. And this was the one from
a mystery coach that said, what we are going to
see is Sean Payton's ability to develop a quarterback relative
to Cliff Kingsbury's ability to do that. Both players, meaning
bow Knicks and Jayden Daniels, appear to be dialed into
(38:56):
the profession of quarterbacking, taking care of the body.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Come in early, leaving late being all about ball.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I'm interested in seeing who is able to grow the
most this coming year. I actually think bow Knicks is
going to win out in that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Wow, do you see bow Knicks overtaking Jaden Daniels this season?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
No, I don't even know. I mean, I feel good
about bo going into year two. Everything I've heard has
been really positive. I love that he has spent time
with Drew Brees in the offseason as well, like he
clearly is committed to this, and just what you hear
about what Sean Payton felt about him prior to the draft,
you just feel like he's in a really good situation.
(39:42):
At the same time, I don't know how much Cliff
Kingsbury needs to develop Jaden Daniels, because Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Just has it right right.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
So I don't know that this is as much about
I don't know that I need to put so much
on Cliff Kingsbury's shoulders. I might feel differently if this
were like a Caleb Williams conversation and we were talking
about Cliff Kingsbury because there was still some development that
needed to be done. In Chicago, you actually got regression
because you didn't have anybody there that could help him
(40:11):
develop and work on some of those things and feel
more confident in them. But as it relates to this,
I I like that that you're thinking about Bonnicks in
that way, if you are this person, right, But I
think that's a bridge too far. I think that's the
kind of thing you have to let happen, but not predict,
because there's just not enough. There's no reason to believe that.
(40:33):
I don't. I could see Washington take a mild step
back this year, just because I think they flew really,
really high last year. But there's no reason to think
that Jaden Daniels is really coming back down to earth,
because it's not as if what he was doing was
a gimmick, like, it's just he's just good at the position.
So no, I don't. I don't. I don't think that
(40:56):
he's gonna end up better than Daniels. I don't I
do think he's going to finish the season a very
strong number two from last year's class. I think that's
fair because I'm not sure about Pennix and there's still
a lot of question marks about Kleb Williams in this situation.
But I think that it's disrespectful to say anything other
than Jadon Daniels is on a completely different plane right
(41:18):
now than the rest of those guys.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
Yeah, he really is. That's how special he was last season.
And that's the thing is. I think that you could
make this argument with you know, a quarterbacks current team.
Could Bo Nicks be more productive throwing the ball?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (41:35):
You just look at last season, bow Knicks had four
more touchdown passes and three more interceptions, right, like they're
in the same zip code. Throwing the ball like bo
Nicks had more passing yards. You could look at them,
you know, this way, that way, all across the board.
The difference is rushing yards. Jaden Daniels just an absolute playmaker.
Bo Knicks can move around too, he's an athlete. But
(41:58):
Jaden Daniels, I think that, Hey, could Bo Knicks be
more productive with the Broncos and Sean Payton this season?
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
In certain categories. I think he could. He was last year,
so I think he could do it again or maybe
even grow a little bit. But then I think there's
an argument, okay, forget about their current team, on any team,
you know what I mean, Like who's better than who?
Jayden Daniels is the class of that draft so far,
and I think bow Knicks He's got a longer. That's
(42:26):
that's a high hill to climb to be like the
guy of the class over Jaden Daniels. I just I
don't see Bo Knicks exceeding as much as Jayden Daniels
falls back. I just I don't think that he's close
enough to pass him up in year two. I just
don't see that happening.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I think both of them are going to have good years.
I think both those football teams ought to have pretty
good years. But yeah, I just I think that you
got to get to the end of the season say wow,
Bo Nicks somehow ended up with a better season than
Jayde Daniels. I feel like that's the kind of quote
you say that you're not going to be to account
for because it's anonymous, and it's perfect for Mike Sando
(43:04):
or anybody that wants to put an article like this
together because it's instant debate. It's exactly right for the
way that sports media is done now.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
I could just see him doing a Tiger Woods fist pump, like, Yeah,
that's what we're talking about right there.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
That's right, that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
That's right.
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Brady Quinn
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Jonas Knox
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