June 9, 2021 • 37 mins
Jonas and Brady have the very latest on the Aaron Rodgers saga, including sound from training camp, where Rodgers has been missing. Outkick's MLB insider Jon Morosi is in the house to help breakdown "the sticky" scandal going on in baseball. Is this as bad as PED's? Will it affect Jon's Hall of Fame voting? Plus, the fellas continue their conversation about doctored baseballs.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Outkicked the Coverage live every weekday morning from six to
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(00:26):
Final hour of the program, Brady Quinn. Uh and for
the man himself, a man who has broken down a
college football playoff just a day after uh, you know,
taking in a raccoon and I'm not gonna say that
you tortured it, but but a day after all that happened,
the one and only Brady Quinn is with us here,
my man. Thank you for that warrant introductions at the
(00:48):
top of every hour. I just absolutely love it. Uh
And I'm sorry that you had to go through the
painful reminder um that everyone else was against you. Chili
is not a sue. UM, It's kind of It's in
its own category. I'm not even gonna throw out the
word that I believe was it Danny or Eddie who
brought that up stup? Who brought up stoop stoop Eddie
(01:10):
Garcia Eddie did Okay, well, there you go. I mean,
I'm not even gonna refer to it as that the
stoop as a sacred place in my heart, but that
is not it. I promise you that so well. I mean,
especially this fall, Bob stoops, you're you're partner in crime
and there I say, sitting on stoops with stoops. You
know who knows it. I can picture Rob Stone throwing
(01:34):
to that segment for some reason, like I feel like
that's going to be something you guys do on Big
newon Kickoff, and there's a lot of stoops out there
on college campuses, so I do feel like that's something
that no matter where we're at in l A, in
studio or not, you could be probably seen sitting on
stoops with stoops. Yeah, and I listen and if you
would like a more pre possible previews of segment ideas
(01:57):
on college football pregame shows, this is the show for
you to get that done here for the next couple
of months on Fox Sports Radio. Now that being said,
we do have a major story in the NFL, a
story that is not going anywhere anytime soon, and it's
Aaron Rodgers, who was not present at Packers Minicamp, Brady Quinn,
he was not there. These are the mandatory ones. I
(02:20):
know you might have confused some listeners yesterday you said
he would be fine at ninety thousand dollars and change
each day. I had to correct you after the fact
that when we spoke and let you know that it's
not actually each day, it's just total Oh that was
me that that that messed that up. I'm so I'm
glad I was able to get that done for you.
I love when you like to air out the behind
the scenes stuff, just because we're two completely different people
(02:41):
where I like to try to be exact and right
when we're throwing out these stats or facts to our listeners,
and you're just like, who cares ninety three thousand a day,
ninety three thousand for three days, not that big of
a difference. Well, one's gonna add up to over a
quarter of a million dollars. The other one is under
a hundred thousand dollars, so kind of significant. Yeah, I
(03:05):
misread some of the reports that were out there. I mean,
you know, it's it's fine. Everybody makes mistakes. I'm man
enough to own up to my mistakes. But nonetheless, Aaron
Rodgers not present at Packers minicamp and so um his
wide receiver Davantae Adams. Of course he's going to be
asked about it because he is his primary target. Davante
Adams spoke yesterday about his thoughts on the situation. I
(03:28):
got his back through everything, so he knows at the
end of the day, if he if if he is
ever a wonder of you know, he's lost a teammate
or something because of all this come out like he
knows where I'll stand. I'll stand on excuse me, I'll
stand on the mountain and uh and uh scream on
the mountaintop. You know that that I got his back.
I mean, I think that's impressive if if you know,
(03:48):
for no other reasons other than the fact that um,
Aaron Rodgers complaining because he doesn't have enough around him,
and yet what he does have around him is still
defending him so well. I don't think that he's referring
to Devanta at is not being enough. I think he
knows how good Davanta Adams is. He's seen his growth,
he's seen his development all that. I think the more
interesting thing is this scenario. Davanta Adams isn't participating right now.
(04:12):
In the mandatory minicamp, he's present, so he won't be fined. However,
he's not participating, and the reason why is he doesn't
want to subject himself to potential injury before a big
time year where he will either hit free agency, which
we all know won't happen at worst, to get a
franchise tag if not a long term deal, which right
(04:33):
now you would say is probably the time they would
be thinking about negotiating with Davante Adams for a long
term deal. Right you gotta do it the year before
he's gonna hit free agency. Otherwise you can go the
franchise tag rout, but that that gets expensive. But here's
the problem is maybe the Packers are contemplating a new
contract for Aaron Rodgers, and if you're trying to do
(04:54):
a deal for both players, it may be hard. With
the cap space that they have to make those things possible.
They're gonna have to pay out a lot of cash
if they want to do that. So that's what I'm
most curious to see is what ends up happening with
Davanta Adams, because he could say he's got his back
and all that stuff. Until they come to him with
(05:15):
a contract to make him the highest paid wide receiver
in the NFL. That might change how you feel then,
like you might be eating up some of that cap
space that maybe Aaron Rodgers is looking for in a
new contract. I mean, that would be such a move
by Mark Murphy, if if if he if you really
wanted to be petty and put people in bad positions,
because he's got a red ass about Aaron Rodgers and
(05:36):
how this whole thing is gone. If he were to
basically put an offer on the table that would all
but ensure Aaron Rodgers not being there long term, but
Davante Adams would be uh paid and paid handsomely. I
would love to see that that move and see how
Davanta Adams handles that. And by the way, say that
they don't have a ton of cap space like for
(05:56):
this year, they're gonna have to make some tough moves
and renegotiate some of these contracts. So I wouldn't be
surprised if they didn't have to do some restructuring as
we get closer to the season, because I believe that
over the cap as it stands right now, which again
that's usually the case, considering you've got a bunch of
guys who aren't gonna be on the roster. But still,
(06:17):
if what I'm reading is correct, I think they're they're
not gonna have much cap space when it's all said
and done. If you look at like their top fifty
fifty one players, they've only got about six million cap space.
So that's gonna be hard to give Damant Adams the
deal he's looking for long term. And maybe, you know,
factoring in what happens, are they Aaron Rodgers, Maybe he's
(06:38):
looking at Jordan Love right now, going I don't know
if I want to sign a long term deal if
this guy is gonna be my quarterback. UM. But on
the other side of that too, is you know, how
do you how do you make both players happy? I'm
not sure they can in this case, but it would
be an interesting move by Mark Murphy to see if
he tried to extend Adams, pay him a boatload of money,
and then we'll see how loyal he wants to be. UM. Now,
(07:00):
on the subject of the head coach, Matt la Flour,
he also because everybody's gonna be asked about Aaron Rodgers
and his whereabouts, But Matt Lafleur, the head coach, was
asked yesterday but yesterday about his quarterback situation. Here was
the Packers I coach. You know, I think anytime you're
talking about any player on your football team, you'd love
everybody to be here. And so it is what it is, man.
(07:21):
And we'll focus and we'll control and and and work
on the guys that are here and try to help
them become the best of their ability and and and
coach the heck out of them. You know, UM, naturally optimistic,
but you know again, we'll take it day by day
and just do whatever we can to help remedy this situation. Um.
(07:41):
Here's here's the the part that I find interesting about
this with Matt Lafleur. He's had to have spoken with
Aaron Rodgers, right, I mean, he's had to have had
a conversation with him, right. I mean, I know he's
he's got to be loyal to the franchise who gave
him the opportunity. But that's his best player, that's his quarterback.
That's guy largely responsible for the twenty six regular season
(08:03):
wins in his first two years as Packer said coach,
He's he's got to have spoken to Aaron Rodgers at
some point by now correct, I don't know, you know,
maybe maybe not. I think the way Aaron traditionally handles
himself is he kind of cuts himself off to everyone.
So I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if they
(08:24):
have not talked at all. I really would not. It
might be a one way conversation where Matt's reached out
to him, but there hasn't been a reply from Aaron.
I would I would not be shocked if that wasn't
the case. So how does how does this not cause
any friction? Because look, if they're going to continue to
be asked about this when he's not there, at some point,
these guys are gonna hit their breaking point and say, man,
I don't want to talk about it anymore, and and
(08:46):
and in essence, they're going to get frustrated that Aaron
has put them in this spot because he's being vague
and if he's not doing an interview with Kenny Main
and sort of you know, dancing around the issue. Um,
you know, he's he's in Hawaii turning into a hippie,
and like at some point people there at Green Bay
in Green Bay have got to say, listen, man, we
(09:07):
can we can only focus on the guys that are here.
Like Matt Lafleur mentioned, this guy doesn't want to be
or he doesn't want to be there. And I just
I wonder when this starts to teeter towards maybe some
bad blood being developing between maybe Aaron Rodgers and some
people that are there in Green Bay. I don't know
if it's so much bad blood. I mean, this is
the business of sports. This is the business of professional sports. Uh.
(09:29):
Much like players sometimes will be radio silent with their
teammates during a contract negotiation or in this case, by
the way we've ventured into it's a hold out. He's
not there, he's under contract, he's supposed to be. It's
officially a holdout. You're gonna hear that language thrown around. Um.
But now, when you get to this point as a player,
(09:50):
I think most players are understanding of the situation. You
gotta kind of gotta cut everyone off. You don't know,
you know always who's reaching out just to reach out,
whether you're a friend or just being a teammate, And
you don't know which players are maybe reaching out on
behalf of the organization. Uh. That that starts to become real.
So this is a scenario where I wouldn't be shocked
(10:12):
or surprised if he has communicated on a limited basis
with most of his teammates or players in the team,
everyone else for that matter, and probably hasn't responded back
to anyone on the coaching staff or from the management side.
That is unfortunately, um how you have to play this,
Let your agent do the work, communicate through him, and
(10:35):
and then once you know, once things get back to
a point where you either want to come back or
you know contractually there's an offer and there's something to
talk about, then you start to re engage in the conversations.
But that's the only leverage you have as a player.
You need to make them feel like life without you
is going to be miserable from a football standpoint, and
you can't necessarily worry about the carnage that that creates
(10:58):
because most people are under and about that, you know,
most people get that the point that he's trying to make,
or maybe just how he feels at this point, I
think it's been pretty well communicated, even though we haven't
heard that much from him outside of one interview with
Kenny Maine. Okay, so you're telling me that the organization
will send players to go get messages to bring back
(11:21):
to them, in essence, hire somebody to get information from
their teammate only to bring it back to the front office.
Oh yeah, I mean, come on. There are players who
have been a part of teams that I was on
that are older veteran players. They brought in with the
head coach who maybe it's his first time being a
head coach, and they take everything that's said around the
(11:43):
players locker room and players only meetings, and they take
it right up to the head coach. They take it,
they take it right up to and and look, it
feels scummy and dirty, But the reality is this, It's
not like that player isn't trying to, you know, win
or do what's right. He obviously believes strongly in the
philosophies that coach is bringing in. But it does feel
(12:07):
like your horror, you know, he's you really don't have
much trust in something like that. But the reality is
he probably what's once what's best for the team, and
that's the reason why he's trying to make the coach
aware of it. So the coach can be aware of
some of the stuff that needs to be handled or
taken care of. Yeah, but if if you're a teammate
and you realize this guy just I don't know if
rat is the right term to use, but dimed you
(12:29):
out and went to the went to the coach or
the front office with conversations that you as players had
that you felt were confidential and we're gonna be kept
just within the players themselves. How do you not look
at that guy differently the rest of the year, like
if if Aaron Rodgers, Because you don't know like that,
that's the realities. You're not aware of it probably until
(12:49):
after the fact. You know that that the reality is
if the person is doing their job right, they're not
gonna be telling you until after that. But look here,
here's here's the truth is. It goes on a lot
more than I think a lot of people realize. And
you know, players can be upset about it, but again
it's just that player helping the head coach have eyes
(13:12):
and ears where he can, and you know, at the
end of the day, it's probably beneficial for the coach
at least have an idea of things. It's not like
those meetings are necessarily changing the way a player performs.
But if a player opens up about something that he's
got going on off the field that he hasn't told anyone,
I mean, the head coach might want to be aware
of that and so that the team can better address
(13:32):
it if he doesn't want to address it with them.
So there are a lot of good things that can
come from it. And to your point, like, I know,
it sounds like he's being rat and I'm not even
saying that that's the case with anyone in Green Bay. Um.
You know, again, most players will kind of stay loyal
to that player, and they're not going to do that.
But there's been times where, especially when players are dealing
with something else or something that's going on in the
(13:52):
personal life, the team will fly down with a few
players to talk to them and see if they can
convince them to come back or to get help, whatever
the case may be. Brady Quinn Jonas knocks is is
I've kicked the coverage here on Fox Sports Radio. You
can listen to the show is always on the I
Heart Radio app. All right, coming up next, it is
the newest scandal in the world of sports. We're going
(14:13):
to get the details. We're gonna find out who's gonna
get busted. How's this whole thing gonna look? Juicy, juicy
stuff all for you. Next here, I'll kick the coverage
Fox Sports Radio. Be sure to catch live editions of
out Kicked the Coverage weekdays at six am Eastern three
am Pacific. Before we hear from a John PALMEROSSI, uh,
(14:33):
in just a moment for those of you that missed it.
Garrett Cole of the Yankees. He's one of the pictures
that is um, you know that is rumored to be
involved in this sticky substance issue to help his spin
raid or whatnot. And there's a substance called spider tack,
which is uh basically used to in order to give
(14:54):
you a little bit extra spin on the baseball. Uh.
Here was his question the answer yesterday with Ken Davidoff,
who covers baseball for the New York Post. You can't
make this up. Here was Garrett call, And you ever
used spider time pitching? Um? I don't. I don't know.
(15:16):
I don't know. If I don't know quite, I don't
quite know how to answer that, to be honest. UM,
I mean there are customs and practices that have been
passed down from older players to younger players, from the
last generation of players to this generation of players. And um,
(15:39):
you know, I think, uh, I think there are some
things that are certainly out of bounds in that regard.
And and uh I stood pretty stood pretty firm and
in terms of a h in terms of the communication
between our peers and whatnot. Um, you know, and and again,
like I mentioned earlier, there's you know, this is important
(16:00):
to a lot of people that love the game. This
is including including the players in this room, including fans,
including you know, teams, And so if all he wants
to you know, legislate some more stuff, that's a conversation
that we can have, um, because ultimately we shall be
pulling in the same direction of this. I mean, that
is just brill Can I define to what spider tack is,
(16:24):
just for our listeners who don't know what it is,
right because you've said, oh, it's a sticky substance. First off,
you can buy it on Amazon for is what I'm
finding out. And here's the product description. Spider Tach Competition
Grade is a TACKI is a tacky for loading alice stones.
It's the stickiest tacky on the market. It maintains its
(16:45):
stickiness in the cold and heat better than all other tackies.
It goes on easy and will improve your stone loading performance.
So this this is obviously something that's been used more
for strength building or World Strongest Man. But or me,
and but I guess maybe I'm I'm curious to see
when this transition to baseball. I feel like pine tar
(17:05):
has been around forever, but one that's spider tack really
hit the baseball world. Well, there's one man who maybe
be able to answer that, and his name is John
Paul Moro. See he is MLB Network Network, MLB Insider,
Fox Sports Radio's MLB Insider, and the Pride and Joy
of Ann Arbor, Michigan. John Paul, when you hear Garrett
(17:26):
Cole answering that question, how far into it did you
start to cringe? Welcome morning, Jonas and Brady. Certainly, to me,
I could say fairly early in the answer, because you
could tell how uncomfortable he is. And I also think
this it is not fair for fans across the sport
(17:46):
to say, well, this is a Garrett Cole problem. I
think that I go back to the article to Stephanie
Epstein wrote in Sports Illustrated, where guys, she quoted someone
as saying that eighty to nine of pictures in Major
League baseball are using illegal substances. I'll repeat that eighty
to which basically means every team and darn near every pitcher.
(18:13):
And so as baseball begins in real time here, because
this is by multiple reports, we're going to see some
stepped up enforcement as early as next week. This has
a chance to change the way that baseball is being played.
Right now, we see all the swing and miss, which
is an issue that baseball wants to address. And this
(18:34):
this enforcement of of trying to limit the sticky substances,
if you will, this will probably have a greater effect
on the sport than taking away the shift, or taking
away throws, the first base or the no pitch intentional walk,
all these different things that have been trying to put
in the game to speed it up. This will reduce
the spin rate on the pitches, make them more hittable,
(18:57):
put put ball balls in play, and frankly make the
end product better for all of us to watch. Yeah,
I don't know that any fans are going to be
complaining when it's all said done. If this equates to
more offensive baseball. Um, let me ask you this, because
you're you're saying it's it's really widespread. How is Major
League Baseball gonna go about identifying those that they're either
(19:21):
suspect to using spider tack? Is it going to be
more film based on what their their habits are, what
they're doing, or their gestures in between pitches. Is it
going to be based on purely spin rate using that data?
How are they going about finding these guys? Well, it's
an next one question, Brady, and and it's gonna be
a multifascined approach. I go back to a story that
Buster only wrote about this. We're basically Baseball in the
(19:44):
first two months of this year has been gathering baseball's
other equipment, whether it's gloves, uniforms, being able to monitor
any substances on those uh, those things in terms of clothing,
and also video and spin ray. So it is an
exhaustive approach where if Baseball was going to crack down
(20:05):
on this issue, they have never had more tools at
their disposal than they do right now. And over the
first two months that they've gathered data, they were able
to obviously pair it up with the pictures who were
wearing the jersey or who were throwing the baseball at
the time that that was taken out of play, and
so they have a pretty good scouting report as to
(20:26):
which pictures are using more than others, and it will
probably translate into enforcement being eight to ten times. Again
according to busters report, that we will see pictures being checked. Now,
it's not you're not gonna check one picture eight times.
It's gonna be random checks during the game. But that
(20:47):
should be a pretty good deterrent, especially if it's being
paired up with a suspension without pay of ten games,
which the ten game suspension without pay is signal up
again enough, but it's also going to carry with it
a fairly damning social punishment from the sport. No one
wants to be the first picture suspended for this, and
(21:11):
and to then have people like me who over the
Hall of Fame thinking about, okay, well, how do we
compare this with other forms of cheating like for example,
V E. D S. It really gets to the fabric
of the game and how we're gonna remember this generation
of player and it's guys, and this is happening in
real time in the days ahead, and it's something for
all of us to get used to in what it's
gonna look like. J P John PALMEROSSI joining us here
(21:35):
on Fox Sports Radio MLB Network Inside or Fox Sports
Radio MLB Inside er Jonas Stocks Brady quip with you
here on I'll kick the coverage. When did this first
start to become an issue? Did somebody blow the whistle?
Was there was there a complaint that was filed? Was
you know, did did you know hitters get together and say, hey,
you know we're being mocked for our inability to hit
(21:57):
the baseball, but there's a reason behind it. When to
this all start to come to fruition? Where a Major
League Baseball decided we got to look into this. Well,
that's an excellent question to Jona said, I think it
was over the last couple of years we had, oddly enough,
Trevor Bauer speaking out about when he was at drive Line,
which is this this pitching workshop, if you will, in
(22:18):
outside of Seattle and throwing off them out there using
a rap soda, which is a technology to measure spin
rate and and really break down the biomechanics of a
pitchers delivery, and and he basically said publicly that that
when you tacify your hands. It really allows you to
get more friction on the ball and more spin ray
(22:38):
and just spin the ball at a you think of
almost like how you would spin a yo yo. It's
that same idea that you're able to really get a
nice uh spin to it and tighten up the spin.
And and Trevor basically said on the record that that
this is something that the tacky substances allowed him to
get to the highest levels of spin rate possible. Well, now,
(22:58):
all of a sudden, in real game action when it's
not allowed to do that, you're seeing pictures up in
that neighborhood with our pms, and and that the contact
rate is plummeting around the game. And I think a
lot of smart people to the Commissioner's office said, well,
wait a minute, like if this, if this is something
that you were only seeing when there were tacky substances,
and this is now becoming commonplaces around the game, something's up.
(23:22):
And I think it's baseball. This is why I really
want to credit MLB, because they've heard a lot of
Christ's in the last couple of years. Or the game
is slowing down, there's all these strikeouts, there's not as
many balls balls in play, The product itself is not
it's not as exciting as it used to be. Well,
how do we address it? Well, this is a fairly
significant way to address it. They've worked on trying to
(23:43):
change the ball, which they've done, and now this is
one other thing that they can do within the rules.
And I think that for those who criticize Baseball's approach
to this, I would say that this is a rule
that already exists. They have not been enforcing it the
way that they can. And I do think a lot
of hitters, guys would be comfortable with a little bit
of a substance to help the ball not hit them
(24:05):
in the head, which has always been a concern, especially
at Coors Field in Denver at altitude in terms of
getting a grip. But there's a difference, a vast difference
between getting a little bit extra material on your finger
to make sure that you actually can just get a
feel up for the baseball and then having the amount
of substance on it that you see right now, which
is really giving the pictures an unfair advantage. And JP,
(24:26):
it's so funny you bring that up. I remember being
out in Denver just with the football is there, um
and at that, at that altitude, and given how dry
it can be, Um, you always were looking for a
little bit of tack to it, because those balls that
come out naturally slicked and once you brush them in
they still lack that that kind of tackiness that you're
looking for. Look, you you've got a haul of fan vote.
(24:47):
How does this factor into your mind with a player
in regards to overall integrative the game? I mean, is
this worse than p D S? Is this the equivalent?
Is it less than that? In your mind? I mean,
how how does this hit your mind when you think
about voting for a player in the future for the
Hall of Fame. Well, it's an important question, Brady, And
here's how I look at it. I'll back up and
(25:07):
say that when I vote for the steroid era candidates
now for the Hall of Fame, I I draw a
line with the Mitchell Report and and and obviously after
that the the actual penalizing of players who test positive.
So basically, even for those names that were in the
Mitchell Report, which of course came out and documented the
(25:27):
years before we had actual penalty and forced testing, I
vote for players still who were not suspended, So I
draw that line with the suspensions which began in two
thousand and five. So I have been voting for Clemens,
I've been voting for Bonds. Controversial though though that maybe
I vote for them both because I view them as
being the best players of inherent of an inherently flawed
(25:49):
era for which we do not have complete information. I
would really Brady as as inexact that it sounds. I'm
basically drawing the line this week this week to say,
if Garrett Cole stubbles over an answer about spider Tack
in the past, when again, according to Stephanie Epstein, story
(26:10):
of the pictures have been using this, I have a
hard time saying I'm not gonna voever Garrit Cole for
the Hall of Fame based on something that's being done
by eight pictures in the past. And then like last
week and before so so this week, if we're gonna
start seeing Baseball penalize pictures for this after basically the
entire industry has been put on notice, just as it
(26:31):
was before the penalties came in two thousand five, I'm
inclined to take that same approach right now. And so
if if big name Hall of Fame caliber pictures are
getting suspended in the weeks ahead, It's gonna really make
me wonder does this person really belong in the Hall
of Fame. Similar to I'm still working my way through
Brady and Jonas the conversation about Carlos Beltron from the
(26:54):
from the Astros and that scandal, because up until that
I said, for sure Beltron first ballot Hall of Famer.
Now I have to really think about it. It was
not suspended, but clearly his actions were against the laws
of the game. So it's it's a really tough dilemma.
I'm gonna have to think about it a lot. I've
got a pretty good idea of how I handled the
story here at Candidates, but this in the last couple
of years, guys, there's a whole another level of complexity
(27:15):
for me to wrestle with. Last one for me. For
John palmro C MLB Network, Fox Sports Radio, MLB Insider Um,
one of the conversations that was sort of a branch
off discussion to the p D scandal was the thought that,
you know, there was a lot of players who maybe
didn't get their opportunity, or a lot of players that
that didn't use P E d s that didn't get
(27:36):
the advantage other players did, and therefore they were looked
at differently from people you've talked to. Do you get
a sense that maybe some hitters around Major League Baseball
have been frustrated because they've been sort of laughed at
and mocked with the numbers that they were putting up,
and maybe some of them were like, hey, there's more
to this story. This isn't just our inability to get
a hit. There's something going on with these pictures. There's
(27:58):
something going on, and they have a competitive advantage, and
maybe there's been some resentment that's been brewing from some
from from some batters a Major League Baseball throughout. Well,
you're exactly right, Jonas, and and we have not heard
many guys speaking out publicly and and and for obvious reasons,
especially if they're a younger players still trying to establish themselves,
or they're up and down player right on the cusp
(28:20):
who who really wants to get to the major leagues
but as being blocked or maybe they've struggled once they've
gotten there. And I really think the one player that
we've seen who's who's been an All Star for a
long time Charlie Blackman spoke about this and it really
said exactly what you're describing, Jonas that that hitters are
struggling now. The velocity is so high, the spin rates
(28:40):
are so high that you're having to guess. Think about this,
you're having to guess where a pitch would normally break,
a slider or a curveball, or even a riding fastball
up in the zone where a pitch would normally behave
in normal times, where the normal laws of physics apply,
and then having to work off of that and get okay, well,
(29:00):
if the guy is using spider tach, it's now going
to behave this way, and that, to your point, is
not fair. And Charlie's point is not fair. And how
many other dozens of players who are right on the
cusp of being able to make it to the major
leagues where you're where your minimum salaries a half million
dollars a year versus triple a where it's substantially lower
than that. I mean this is these are people's livelihoods here,
(29:22):
and I think that that not only does it get
at the viewer experience and the fan experience of of
how we want to watch our sport. Forget that for
a second. This is about people trying to make their
livings in this game and the tremendous difference there exists
between a Triple A player and a major league player,
and I think to your point, Jonas, I'm glad you
brought that up. I'm thinking about that player right now
more than anybody else. Get him on Twitter at John Morrow.
(29:46):
See John palmero C MLB Network Insider, Fox Sports Radio,
MLB Insider JP. We always appreciate it. Awesome stuff. Let's
do it again next week. Thanks. It really enjoyed my
friends that look forward to the next conversation. Thanks so much,
Brady Quinn. Jonas knocks. I'll kick the coverage here on
Fox Sports Radio all right. Coming up next we will
get back into the NFL. Uh. It is a story
(30:09):
that is not going anywhere. We will have it for you.
This is out kicked the coverage. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb.
The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all
basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories
(30:30):
about what made these people love their sport and all
the interesting interactions along the way. We talked to coaches,
we talked to players, We tell you stories, you download it,
you listen to it. I think you like it. Listen
to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
(30:51):
He's Brady Quinn. I'm Jonas Knocks. This is I'll kick
the coverage here on Fox Sports Radio, Brady Quinn and
I will be back tomorrow here on FS. Sorry, how
about that, Brady Quinn six to nine am Eastern Time's
Thursday and then Friday. I believe we're again, uh pending death.
I believe we're technical difficulties. I believe schedule would be
(31:13):
on Friday as well, which, by the way, should we
let our listeners know on our little behind the scenes
competition we have when we have guests on what who
can ask the best questions? Well, I mean who gets
more of great question? Nick? Usually there's like that standard
of if the guests says great question, that's a point.
And I think JP gave each one of us one
(31:35):
and that was it. Although I did get an important question,
which I'm not sure if that's a complimentary how you'd
rank that well, but yeah, but he also told me
he was glad I brought up the idea of you know,
Batters being upset that pictures are getting all the love
but with all these advantages. So I feel like, you know,
I don't remember him saying glad you know, I mean listen, well,
(31:55):
I mean you know, I mean night, we'll call it
a tie for this week. We'll call it a tie
for this week for today, I h I mean, listen,
We're new to this whole guest thing we have. We
do Sunday nights. Nobody's topping off with us on a
Sunday night, besides the the drunk guys that want to
play headline or live That is true, which which I
think we need to revive on Friday. What do you
say we bring that back on for I've been storing
(32:16):
up headlines the entire week. Oh I know, I'm I'm
very very aware of that, Brady Quit. I'm gonna sound
like a complete hypocrite. Here in Major League Baseball, they've
obviously had p D scandals. They currently have a situation
where guys are using substances to create a better spin
(32:37):
rate on the baseball. And so that's the latest one
the Astros have. U they had you were banging trash
cans and then they were, they had shock treatment devices
on their on their torsos that would tip them off
to pitches, videoing, video devices, recording everything. So like, baseball
has had all these scandals and we condemn all of them.
(32:57):
Yet players in the end of fell get pop four
games for p d s and I'm like, I get it.
Physical sport. The Patriots are filming sidelines and I go, hey, look,
just trying to get a competitive advantage here. And then
Tom Brady or other players maybe deflate footballs and I'm like, yeah,
I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't really
(33:18):
give him an edge. Why am I such a hypocrite
when it comes to the NFL? It's a it's a
great question. I think it's in part because there's a
lot more variables and there's a lot of things that
need to go right in order for something to be successful.
And by the way, the deflate Gate one was the
best because if you actually read through the deflate Gate report,
(33:39):
the data suggested that it's harder to throw a deflated
football than it is one that's pumped up to the
accepted amount, if not more. And so actually what it
proved was Tom Brady was playing at a disadvantage with
a with a deflated football, so that one you gotta
throw out. Did you ever have a nerf football when
(33:59):
you were a kid. Of course, who didn't. I had
the one with the John Elway on the sidewhere said
John Away through a ninety yards. So then every time
you go out in your backyard you would try to
throw the ball as far as physically possible, hoping that
you could beat John Elway, who threw it ninety yards.
I don't want anyone touching the balls after that. I
don't want anyone rubbing them. To me, those balls are perfect.
(34:19):
What was that Bob Craft? All right? So here's here's
the thing, um, I want just say this when it
comes to nerve footballs, I wish they had the vintage
orne one brought all the way back. But to your point,
if if a dog ever got ahold of your nerve football,
it never spun the same ever again. So of course
it would be more difficult to throw a football if
(34:40):
it's deflated. Like That's what I didn't understand about the
whole discussion when it came to Tom Brady. Well are
we really getting into this again? Okay? So the reason
why you'd want to deflate a little bit of air
out of it is it makes it easier to grip,
in particular in cold weather. Now, I believe the game
in which it was discovered was an Indie which is
a dome, which is why it literally doesn't make any
(35:02):
sense why you'd want to have them deflated for that reason.
Was that a Foxborough though I remember was it in Foxborough?
Was it in so I think it would make more
sense if it was in Foxboro because if it's a
colder weather game, you want to deflate it a little
bit so you had a little better grip on the
football as a quarterback. And it also makes it a
(35:23):
softer ball to catch for their receivers, so it helps
them on that end to now again harder to throw
in particular downfield, so it almost kind of limits your
downfield throwing. But if you remember back during that time,
New England was really more spreading the field out and
kind of dinking and dunking underneath to get yards after
the catch. So if it was at Foxborough, which I'd
(35:45):
have to go back and look for some reason, I'm
like picturing to Quell Jackson, who I believed you pick
off of football or somehow we gotta turnover, and he
was holding onto it on the sidelines, right, and that's
how he discovered. He's like, man, this is pretty deflated. Um,
and so technically my old teammate, my buddy to quell.
He might have been the whistleblower. He might have started
that whole thing. Yeah, I don't even know if he
(36:06):
meant to do it. He was just like, hey, look
at this, Like what you look at it? It's like
it's like finding you know, uh, you know, the murder
weapon in the street and going, hey, what's what's going
on here? Yeah, come on, I know what I'm doing.
I thought we were going a different direction. No, No,
I mean we could will end up right back on
Sunday nights. All right. So here's here's what I want
to ask you. All right, Let's just say, I don't know,
(36:28):
hypothetically speaking, you wanted to add a substance to a
football because you wanted to be able to give yourself
an advantage. And I'm not talking about taking air out
of the balls. That that's you know, like two thousand,
fifteen fourteen, stuff like that. That's back in the day.
It's ancient history. I'm talking present day are you going
(36:48):
Spider Tech? Are you? I mean, what are we talking?
Are you going Chris go? Do we want some basiline? W?
I don't know. I mean there's a lot of polish.
You want it tacky. You do not want w D forty,
no Crisco, nothing that's gonna make it worse. Vassal And
(37:10):
I remember I used to go over to guys when
they would be carrying the football and they put vasseling
all over their arms because they don't want to wear sleeves.
I'm like, dude, to wipe that stuff off, like, get
it off of the football because that's gonna be a
fumble later on. Um, you want tackiness, so you'd be
looking for any sort of stick them, any sort of
spider tag, spits live. I don't care what you use.
(37:31):
You want some sort of tackiness with it? Oh man,
I just like I I just I love cheating. I
love scandals. I think it's like it's so fun. It's
just so much fun. Man. All right, Brady, let's do
it again tomorrow. What do you say? It sounds good.
Outkicked the Coverage live every weekday morning from six to
nine a m. E Stern three to six am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for Outkicked
the Coverage at Fox sports Radio dot com, or stream
us live every morning on the I Heart Radio app
by searching fs are you're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
(00:26):
Final hour of the program, Brady Quinn. Uh and for
the man himself, a man who has broken down a
college football playoff just a day after uh, you know,
taking in a raccoon and I'm not gonna say that
you tortured it, but but a day after all that happened,
the one and only Brady Quinn is with us here,
my man. Thank you for that warrant introductions at the
(00:48):
top of every hour. I just absolutely love it. Uh
And I'm sorry that you had to go through the
painful reminder um that everyone else was against you. Chili
is not a sue. UM, It's kind of It's in
its own category. I'm not even gonna throw out the
word that I believe was it Danny or Eddie who
brought that up stup? Who brought up stoop stoop Eddie
(01:10):
Garcia Eddie did Okay, well, there you go. I mean,
I'm not even gonna refer to it as that the
stoop as a sacred place in my heart, but that
is not it. I promise you that so well. I mean,
especially this fall, Bob stoops, you're you're partner in crime
and there I say, sitting on stoops with stoops. You
know who knows it. I can picture Rob Stone throwing
(01:34):
to that segment for some reason, like I feel like
that's going to be something you guys do on Big
newon Kickoff, and there's a lot of stoops out there
on college campuses, so I do feel like that's something
that no matter where we're at in l A, in
studio or not, you could be probably seen sitting on
stoops with stoops. Yeah, and I listen and if you
would like a more pre possible previews of segment ideas
(01:57):
on college football pregame shows, this is the show for
you to get that done here for the next couple
of months on Fox Sports Radio. Now that being said,
we do have a major story in the NFL, a
story that is not going anywhere anytime soon, and it's
Aaron Rodgers, who was not present at Packers Minicamp, Brady Quinn,
he was not there. These are the mandatory ones. I
(02:20):
know you might have confused some listeners yesterday you said
he would be fine at ninety thousand dollars and change
each day. I had to correct you after the fact
that when we spoke and let you know that it's
not actually each day, it's just total Oh that was
me that that that messed that up. I'm so I'm
glad I was able to get that done for you.
I love when you like to air out the behind
the scenes stuff, just because we're two completely different people
(02:41):
where I like to try to be exact and right
when we're throwing out these stats or facts to our listeners,
and you're just like, who cares ninety three thousand a day,
ninety three thousand for three days, not that big of
a difference. Well, one's gonna add up to over a
quarter of a million dollars. The other one is under
a hundred thousand dollars, so kind of significant. Yeah, I
(03:05):
misread some of the reports that were out there. I mean,
you know, it's it's fine. Everybody makes mistakes. I'm man
enough to own up to my mistakes. But nonetheless, Aaron
Rodgers not present at Packers minicamp and so um his
wide receiver Davantae Adams. Of course he's going to be
asked about it because he is his primary target. Davante
Adams spoke yesterday about his thoughts on the situation. I
(03:28):
got his back through everything, so he knows at the
end of the day, if he if if he is
ever a wonder of you know, he's lost a teammate
or something because of all this come out like he
knows where I'll stand. I'll stand on excuse me, I'll
stand on the mountain and uh and uh scream on
the mountaintop. You know that that I got his back.
I mean, I think that's impressive if if you know,
(03:48):
for no other reasons other than the fact that um,
Aaron Rodgers complaining because he doesn't have enough around him,
and yet what he does have around him is still
defending him so well. I don't think that he's referring
to Devanta at is not being enough. I think he
knows how good Davanta Adams is. He's seen his growth,
he's seen his development all that. I think the more
interesting thing is this scenario. Davanta Adams isn't participating right now.
(04:12):
In the mandatory minicamp, he's present, so he won't be fined. However,
he's not participating, and the reason why is he doesn't
want to subject himself to potential injury before a big
time year where he will either hit free agency, which
we all know won't happen at worst, to get a
franchise tag if not a long term deal, which right
(04:33):
now you would say is probably the time they would
be thinking about negotiating with Davante Adams for a long
term deal. Right you gotta do it the year before
he's gonna hit free agency. Otherwise you can go the
franchise tag rout, but that that gets expensive. But here's
the problem is maybe the Packers are contemplating a new
contract for Aaron Rodgers, and if you're trying to do
(04:54):
a deal for both players, it may be hard. With
the cap space that they have to make those things possible.
They're gonna have to pay out a lot of cash
if they want to do that. So that's what I'm
most curious to see is what ends up happening with
Davanta Adams, because he could say he's got his back
and all that stuff. Until they come to him with
(05:15):
a contract to make him the highest paid wide receiver
in the NFL. That might change how you feel then,
like you might be eating up some of that cap
space that maybe Aaron Rodgers is looking for in a
new contract. I mean, that would be such a move
by Mark Murphy, if if if he if you really
wanted to be petty and put people in bad positions,
because he's got a red ass about Aaron Rodgers and
(05:36):
how this whole thing is gone. If he were to
basically put an offer on the table that would all
but ensure Aaron Rodgers not being there long term, but
Davante Adams would be uh paid and paid handsomely. I
would love to see that that move and see how
Davanta Adams handles that. And by the way, say that
they don't have a ton of cap space like for
(05:56):
this year, they're gonna have to make some tough moves
and renegotiate some of these contracts. So I wouldn't be
surprised if they didn't have to do some restructuring as
we get closer to the season, because I believe that
over the cap as it stands right now, which again
that's usually the case, considering you've got a bunch of
guys who aren't gonna be on the roster. But still,
(06:17):
if what I'm reading is correct, I think they're they're
not gonna have much cap space when it's all said
and done. If you look at like their top fifty
fifty one players, they've only got about six million cap space.
So that's gonna be hard to give Damant Adams the
deal he's looking for long term. And maybe, you know,
factoring in what happens, are they Aaron Rodgers, Maybe he's
(06:38):
looking at Jordan Love right now, going I don't know
if I want to sign a long term deal if
this guy is gonna be my quarterback. UM. But on
the other side of that too, is you know, how
do you how do you make both players happy? I'm
not sure they can in this case, but it would
be an interesting move by Mark Murphy to see if
he tried to extend Adams, pay him a boatload of money,
and then we'll see how loyal he wants to be. UM. Now,
(07:00):
on the subject of the head coach, Matt la Flour,
he also because everybody's gonna be asked about Aaron Rodgers
and his whereabouts, But Matt Lafleur, the head coach, was
asked yesterday but yesterday about his quarterback situation. Here was
the Packers I coach. You know, I think anytime you're
talking about any player on your football team, you'd love
everybody to be here. And so it is what it is, man.
(07:21):
And we'll focus and we'll control and and and work
on the guys that are here and try to help
them become the best of their ability and and and
coach the heck out of them. You know, UM, naturally optimistic,
but you know again, we'll take it day by day
and just do whatever we can to help remedy this situation. Um.
(07:41):
Here's here's the the part that I find interesting about
this with Matt Lafleur. He's had to have spoken with
Aaron Rodgers, right, I mean, he's had to have had
a conversation with him, right. I mean, I know he's
he's got to be loyal to the franchise who gave
him the opportunity. But that's his best player, that's his quarterback.
That's guy largely responsible for the twenty six regular season
(08:03):
wins in his first two years as Packer said coach,
He's he's got to have spoken to Aaron Rodgers at
some point by now correct, I don't know, you know,
maybe maybe not. I think the way Aaron traditionally handles
himself is he kind of cuts himself off to everyone.
So I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if they
(08:24):
have not talked at all. I really would not. It
might be a one way conversation where Matt's reached out
to him, but there hasn't been a reply from Aaron.
I would I would not be shocked if that wasn't
the case. So how does how does this not cause
any friction? Because look, if they're going to continue to
be asked about this when he's not there, at some point,
these guys are gonna hit their breaking point and say, man,
I don't want to talk about it anymore, and and
(08:46):
and in essence, they're going to get frustrated that Aaron
has put them in this spot because he's being vague
and if he's not doing an interview with Kenny Main
and sort of you know, dancing around the issue. Um,
you know, he's he's in Hawaii turning into a hippie,
and like at some point people there at Green Bay
in Green Bay have got to say, listen, man, we
(09:07):
can we can only focus on the guys that are here.
Like Matt Lafleur mentioned, this guy doesn't want to be
or he doesn't want to be there. And I just
I wonder when this starts to teeter towards maybe some
bad blood being developing between maybe Aaron Rodgers and some
people that are there in Green Bay. I don't know
if it's so much bad blood. I mean, this is
the business of sports. This is the business of professional sports. Uh.
(09:29):
Much like players sometimes will be radio silent with their
teammates during a contract negotiation or in this case, by
the way we've ventured into it's a hold out. He's
not there, he's under contract, he's supposed to be. It's
officially a holdout. You're gonna hear that language thrown around. Um.
But now, when you get to this point as a player,
(09:50):
I think most players are understanding of the situation. You
gotta kind of gotta cut everyone off. You don't know,
you know always who's reaching out just to reach out,
whether you're a friend or just being a teammate, And
you don't know which players are maybe reaching out on
behalf of the organization. Uh. That that starts to become real.
So this is a scenario where I wouldn't be shocked
(10:12):
or surprised if he has communicated on a limited basis
with most of his teammates or players in the team,
everyone else for that matter, and probably hasn't responded back
to anyone on the coaching staff or from the management side.
That is unfortunately, um how you have to play this,
Let your agent do the work, communicate through him, and
(10:35):
and then once you know, once things get back to
a point where you either want to come back or
you know contractually there's an offer and there's something to
talk about, then you start to re engage in the conversations.
But that's the only leverage you have as a player.
You need to make them feel like life without you
is going to be miserable from a football standpoint, and
you can't necessarily worry about the carnage that that creates
(10:58):
because most people are under and about that, you know,
most people get that the point that he's trying to make,
or maybe just how he feels at this point, I
think it's been pretty well communicated, even though we haven't
heard that much from him outside of one interview with
Kenny Maine. Okay, so you're telling me that the organization
will send players to go get messages to bring back
(11:21):
to them, in essence, hire somebody to get information from
their teammate only to bring it back to the front office.
Oh yeah, I mean, come on. There are players who
have been a part of teams that I was on
that are older veteran players. They brought in with the
head coach who maybe it's his first time being a
head coach, and they take everything that's said around the
(11:43):
players locker room and players only meetings, and they take
it right up to the head coach. They take it,
they take it right up to and and look, it
feels scummy and dirty, But the reality is this, It's
not like that player isn't trying to, you know, win
or do what's right. He obviously believes strongly in the
philosophies that coach is bringing in. But it does feel
(12:07):
like your horror, you know, he's you really don't have
much trust in something like that. But the reality is
he probably what's once what's best for the team, and
that's the reason why he's trying to make the coach
aware of it. So the coach can be aware of
some of the stuff that needs to be handled or
taken care of. Yeah, but if if you're a teammate
and you realize this guy just I don't know if
rat is the right term to use, but dimed you
(12:29):
out and went to the went to the coach or
the front office with conversations that you as players had
that you felt were confidential and we're gonna be kept
just within the players themselves. How do you not look
at that guy differently the rest of the year, like
if if Aaron Rodgers, Because you don't know like that,
that's the realities. You're not aware of it probably until
(12:49):
after the fact. You know that that the reality is
if the person is doing their job right, they're not
gonna be telling you until after that. But look here,
here's here's the truth is. It goes on a lot
more than I think a lot of people realize. And
you know, players can be upset about it, but again
it's just that player helping the head coach have eyes
(13:12):
and ears where he can, and you know, at the
end of the day, it's probably beneficial for the coach
at least have an idea of things. It's not like
those meetings are necessarily changing the way a player performs.
But if a player opens up about something that he's
got going on off the field that he hasn't told anyone,
I mean, the head coach might want to be aware
of that and so that the team can better address
(13:32):
it if he doesn't want to address it with them.
So there are a lot of good things that can
come from it. And to your point, like, I know,
it sounds like he's being rat and I'm not even
saying that that's the case with anyone in Green Bay. Um.
You know, again, most players will kind of stay loyal
to that player, and they're not going to do that.
But there's been times where, especially when players are dealing
with something else or something that's going on in the
(13:52):
personal life, the team will fly down with a few
players to talk to them and see if they can
convince them to come back or to get help, whatever
the case may be. Brady Quinn Jonas knocks is is
I've kicked the coverage here on Fox Sports Radio. You
can listen to the show is always on the I
Heart Radio app. All right, coming up next, it is
the newest scandal in the world of sports. We're going
(14:13):
to get the details. We're gonna find out who's gonna
get busted. How's this whole thing gonna look? Juicy, juicy
stuff all for you. Next here, I'll kick the coverage
Fox Sports Radio. Be sure to catch live editions of
out Kicked the Coverage weekdays at six am Eastern three
am Pacific. Before we hear from a John PALMEROSSI, uh,
(14:33):
in just a moment for those of you that missed it.
Garrett Cole of the Yankees. He's one of the pictures
that is um, you know that is rumored to be
involved in this sticky substance issue to help his spin
raid or whatnot. And there's a substance called spider tack,
which is uh basically used to in order to give
(14:54):
you a little bit extra spin on the baseball. Uh.
Here was his question the answer yesterday with Ken Davidoff,
who covers baseball for the New York Post. You can't
make this up. Here was Garrett call, And you ever
used spider time pitching? Um? I don't. I don't know.
(15:16):
I don't know. If I don't know quite, I don't
quite know how to answer that, to be honest. UM,
I mean there are customs and practices that have been
passed down from older players to younger players, from the
last generation of players to this generation of players. And um,
(15:39):
you know, I think, uh, I think there are some
things that are certainly out of bounds in that regard.
And and uh I stood pretty stood pretty firm and
in terms of a h in terms of the communication
between our peers and whatnot. Um, you know, and and again,
like I mentioned earlier, there's you know, this is important
(16:00):
to a lot of people that love the game. This
is including including the players in this room, including fans,
including you know, teams, And so if all he wants
to you know, legislate some more stuff, that's a conversation
that we can have, um, because ultimately we shall be
pulling in the same direction of this. I mean, that
is just brill Can I define to what spider tack is,
(16:24):
just for our listeners who don't know what it is,
right because you've said, oh, it's a sticky substance. First off,
you can buy it on Amazon for is what I'm
finding out. And here's the product description. Spider Tach Competition
Grade is a TACKI is a tacky for loading alice stones.
It's the stickiest tacky on the market. It maintains its
(16:45):
stickiness in the cold and heat better than all other tackies.
It goes on easy and will improve your stone loading performance.
So this this is obviously something that's been used more
for strength building or World Strongest Man. But or me,
and but I guess maybe I'm I'm curious to see
when this transition to baseball. I feel like pine tar
(17:05):
has been around forever, but one that's spider tack really
hit the baseball world. Well, there's one man who maybe
be able to answer that, and his name is John
Paul Moro. See he is MLB Network Network, MLB Insider,
Fox Sports Radio's MLB Insider, and the Pride and Joy
of Ann Arbor, Michigan. John Paul, when you hear Garrett
(17:26):
Cole answering that question, how far into it did you
start to cringe? Welcome morning, Jonas and Brady. Certainly, to me,
I could say fairly early in the answer, because you
could tell how uncomfortable he is. And I also think
this it is not fair for fans across the sport
(17:46):
to say, well, this is a Garrett Cole problem. I
think that I go back to the article to Stephanie
Epstein wrote in Sports Illustrated, where guys, she quoted someone
as saying that eighty to nine of pictures in Major
League baseball are using illegal substances. I'll repeat that eighty
to which basically means every team and darn near every pitcher.
(18:13):
And so as baseball begins in real time here, because
this is by multiple reports, we're going to see some
stepped up enforcement as early as next week. This has
a chance to change the way that baseball is being played.
Right now, we see all the swing and miss, which
is an issue that baseball wants to address. And this
(18:34):
this enforcement of of trying to limit the sticky substances,
if you will, this will probably have a greater effect
on the sport than taking away the shift, or taking
away throws, the first base or the no pitch intentional walk,
all these different things that have been trying to put
in the game to speed it up. This will reduce
the spin rate on the pitches, make them more hittable,
(18:57):
put put ball balls in play, and frankly make the
end product better for all of us to watch. Yeah,
I don't know that any fans are going to be
complaining when it's all said done. If this equates to
more offensive baseball. Um, let me ask you this, because
you're you're saying it's it's really widespread. How is Major
League Baseball gonna go about identifying those that they're either
(19:21):
suspect to using spider tack? Is it going to be
more film based on what their their habits are, what
they're doing, or their gestures in between pitches. Is it
going to be based on purely spin rate using that data?
How are they going about finding these guys? Well, it's
an next one question, Brady, and and it's gonna be
a multifascined approach. I go back to a story that
Buster only wrote about this. We're basically Baseball in the
(19:44):
first two months of this year has been gathering baseball's
other equipment, whether it's gloves, uniforms, being able to monitor
any substances on those uh, those things in terms of clothing,
and also video and spin ray. So it is an
exhaustive approach where if Baseball was going to crack down
(20:05):
on this issue, they have never had more tools at
their disposal than they do right now. And over the
first two months that they've gathered data, they were able
to obviously pair it up with the pictures who were
wearing the jersey or who were throwing the baseball at
the time that that was taken out of play, and
so they have a pretty good scouting report as to
(20:26):
which pictures are using more than others, and it will
probably translate into enforcement being eight to ten times. Again
according to busters report, that we will see pictures being checked. Now,
it's not you're not gonna check one picture eight times.
It's gonna be random checks during the game. But that
(20:47):
should be a pretty good deterrent, especially if it's being
paired up with a suspension without pay of ten games,
which the ten game suspension without pay is signal up
again enough, but it's also going to carry with it
a fairly damning social punishment from the sport. No one
wants to be the first picture suspended for this, and
(21:11):
and to then have people like me who over the
Hall of Fame thinking about, okay, well, how do we
compare this with other forms of cheating like for example,
V E. D S. It really gets to the fabric
of the game and how we're gonna remember this generation
of player and it's guys, and this is happening in
real time in the days ahead, and it's something for
all of us to get used to in what it's
gonna look like. J P John PALMEROSSI joining us here
(21:35):
on Fox Sports Radio MLB Network Inside or Fox Sports
Radio MLB Inside er Jonas Stocks Brady quip with you
here on I'll kick the coverage. When did this first
start to become an issue? Did somebody blow the whistle?
Was there was there a complaint that was filed? Was
you know, did did you know hitters get together and say, hey,
you know we're being mocked for our inability to hit
(21:57):
the baseball, but there's a reason behind it. When to
this all start to come to fruition? Where a Major
League Baseball decided we got to look into this. Well,
that's an excellent question to Jona said, I think it
was over the last couple of years we had, oddly enough,
Trevor Bauer speaking out about when he was at drive Line,
which is this this pitching workshop, if you will, in
(22:18):
outside of Seattle and throwing off them out there using
a rap soda, which is a technology to measure spin
rate and and really break down the biomechanics of a
pitchers delivery, and and he basically said publicly that that
when you tacify your hands. It really allows you to
get more friction on the ball and more spin ray
(22:38):
and just spin the ball at a you think of
almost like how you would spin a yo yo. It's
that same idea that you're able to really get a
nice uh spin to it and tighten up the spin.
And and Trevor basically said on the record that that
this is something that the tacky substances allowed him to
get to the highest levels of spin rate possible. Well, now,
(22:58):
all of a sudden, in real game action when it's
not allowed to do that, you're seeing pictures up in
that neighborhood with our pms, and and that the contact
rate is plummeting around the game. And I think a
lot of smart people to the Commissioner's office said, well,
wait a minute, like if this, if this is something
that you were only seeing when there were tacky substances,
and this is now becoming commonplaces around the game, something's up.
(23:22):
And I think it's baseball. This is why I really
want to credit MLB, because they've heard a lot of
Christ's in the last couple of years. Or the game
is slowing down, there's all these strikeouts, there's not as
many balls balls in play, The product itself is not
it's not as exciting as it used to be. Well,
how do we address it? Well, this is a fairly
significant way to address it. They've worked on trying to
(23:43):
change the ball, which they've done, and now this is
one other thing that they can do within the rules.
And I think that for those who criticize Baseball's approach
to this, I would say that this is a rule
that already exists. They have not been enforcing it the
way that they can. And I do think a lot
of hitters, guys would be comfortable with a little bit
of a substance to help the ball not hit them
(24:05):
in the head, which has always been a concern, especially
at Coors Field in Denver at altitude in terms of
getting a grip. But there's a difference, a vast difference
between getting a little bit extra material on your finger
to make sure that you actually can just get a
feel up for the baseball and then having the amount
of substance on it that you see right now, which
is really giving the pictures an unfair advantage. And JP,
(24:26):
it's so funny you bring that up. I remember being
out in Denver just with the football is there, um
and at that, at that altitude, and given how dry
it can be, Um, you always were looking for a
little bit of tack to it, because those balls that
come out naturally slicked and once you brush them in
they still lack that that kind of tackiness that you're
looking for. Look, you you've got a haul of fan vote.
(24:47):
How does this factor into your mind with a player
in regards to overall integrative the game? I mean, is
this worse than p D S? Is this the equivalent?
Is it less than that? In your mind? I mean,
how how does this hit your mind when you think
about voting for a player in the future for the
Hall of Fame. Well, it's an important question, Brady, And
here's how I look at it. I'll back up and
(25:07):
say that when I vote for the steroid era candidates
now for the Hall of Fame, I I draw a
line with the Mitchell Report and and and obviously after
that the the actual penalizing of players who test positive.
So basically, even for those names that were in the
Mitchell Report, which of course came out and documented the
(25:27):
years before we had actual penalty and forced testing, I
vote for players still who were not suspended, So I
draw that line with the suspensions which began in two
thousand and five. So I have been voting for Clemens,
I've been voting for Bonds. Controversial though though that maybe
I vote for them both because I view them as
being the best players of inherent of an inherently flawed
(25:49):
era for which we do not have complete information. I
would really Brady as as inexact that it sounds. I'm
basically drawing the line this week this week to say,
if Garrett Cole stubbles over an answer about spider Tack
in the past, when again, according to Stephanie Epstein, story
(26:10):
of the pictures have been using this, I have a
hard time saying I'm not gonna voever Garrit Cole for
the Hall of Fame based on something that's being done
by eight pictures in the past. And then like last
week and before so so this week, if we're gonna
start seeing Baseball penalize pictures for this after basically the
entire industry has been put on notice, just as it
(26:31):
was before the penalties came in two thousand five, I'm
inclined to take that same approach right now. And so
if if big name Hall of Fame caliber pictures are
getting suspended in the weeks ahead, It's gonna really make
me wonder does this person really belong in the Hall
of Fame. Similar to I'm still working my way through
Brady and Jonas the conversation about Carlos Beltron from the
(26:54):
from the Astros and that scandal, because up until that
I said, for sure Beltron first ballot Hall of Famer.
Now I have to really think about it. It was
not suspended, but clearly his actions were against the laws
of the game. So it's it's a really tough dilemma.
I'm gonna have to think about it a lot. I've
got a pretty good idea of how I handled the
story here at Candidates, but this in the last couple
of years, guys, there's a whole another level of complexity
(27:15):
for me to wrestle with. Last one for me. For
John palmro C MLB Network, Fox Sports Radio, MLB Insider Um,
one of the conversations that was sort of a branch
off discussion to the p D scandal was the thought that,
you know, there was a lot of players who maybe
didn't get their opportunity, or a lot of players that
that didn't use P E d s that didn't get
(27:36):
the advantage other players did, and therefore they were looked
at differently from people you've talked to. Do you get
a sense that maybe some hitters around Major League Baseball
have been frustrated because they've been sort of laughed at
and mocked with the numbers that they were putting up,
and maybe some of them were like, hey, there's more
to this story. This isn't just our inability to get
a hit. There's something going on with these pictures. There's
(27:58):
something going on, and they have a competitive advantage, and
maybe there's been some resentment that's been brewing from some
from from some batters a Major League Baseball throughout. Well,
you're exactly right, Jonas, and and we have not heard
many guys speaking out publicly and and and for obvious reasons,
especially if they're a younger players still trying to establish themselves,
or they're up and down player right on the cusp
(28:20):
who who really wants to get to the major leagues
but as being blocked or maybe they've struggled once they've
gotten there. And I really think the one player that
we've seen who's who's been an All Star for a
long time Charlie Blackman spoke about this and it really
said exactly what you're describing, Jonas that that hitters are
struggling now. The velocity is so high, the spin rates
(28:40):
are so high that you're having to guess. Think about this,
you're having to guess where a pitch would normally break,
a slider or a curveball, or even a riding fastball
up in the zone where a pitch would normally behave
in normal times, where the normal laws of physics apply,
and then having to work off of that and get okay, well,
(29:00):
if the guy is using spider tach, it's now going
to behave this way, and that, to your point, is
not fair. And Charlie's point is not fair. And how
many other dozens of players who are right on the
cusp of being able to make it to the major
leagues where you're where your minimum salaries a half million
dollars a year versus triple a where it's substantially lower
than that. I mean this is these are people's livelihoods here,
(29:22):
and I think that that not only does it get
at the viewer experience and the fan experience of of
how we want to watch our sport. Forget that for
a second. This is about people trying to make their
livings in this game and the tremendous difference there exists
between a Triple A player and a major league player,
and I think to your point, Jonas, I'm glad you
brought that up. I'm thinking about that player right now
more than anybody else. Get him on Twitter at John Morrow.
(29:46):
See John palmero C MLB Network Insider, Fox Sports Radio,
MLB Insider JP. We always appreciate it. Awesome stuff. Let's
do it again next week. Thanks. It really enjoyed my
friends that look forward to the next conversation. Thanks so much,
Brady Quinn. Jonas knocks. I'll kick the coverage here on
Fox Sports Radio all right. Coming up next we will
get back into the NFL. Uh. It is a story
(30:09):
that is not going anywhere. We will have it for you.
This is out kicked the coverage. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb.
The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all
basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories
(30:30):
about what made these people love their sport and all
the interesting interactions along the way. We talked to coaches,
we talked to players, We tell you stories, you download it,
you listen to it. I think you like it. Listen
to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
(30:51):
He's Brady Quinn. I'm Jonas Knocks. This is I'll kick
the coverage here on Fox Sports Radio, Brady Quinn and
I will be back tomorrow here on FS. Sorry, how
about that, Brady Quinn six to nine am Eastern Time's
Thursday and then Friday. I believe we're again, uh pending death.
I believe we're technical difficulties. I believe schedule would be
(31:13):
on Friday as well, which, by the way, should we
let our listeners know on our little behind the scenes
competition we have when we have guests on what who
can ask the best questions? Well, I mean who gets
more of great question? Nick? Usually there's like that standard
of if the guests says great question, that's a point.
And I think JP gave each one of us one
(31:35):
and that was it. Although I did get an important question,
which I'm not sure if that's a complimentary how you'd
rank that well, but yeah, but he also told me
he was glad I brought up the idea of you know,
Batters being upset that pictures are getting all the love
but with all these advantages. So I feel like, you know,
I don't remember him saying glad you know, I mean listen, well,
(31:55):
I mean you know, I mean night, we'll call it
a tie for this week. We'll call it a tie
for this week for today, I h I mean, listen,
We're new to this whole guest thing we have. We
do Sunday nights. Nobody's topping off with us on a
Sunday night, besides the the drunk guys that want to
play headline or live That is true, which which I
think we need to revive on Friday. What do you
say we bring that back on for I've been storing
(32:16):
up headlines the entire week. Oh I know, I'm I'm
very very aware of that, Brady Quit. I'm gonna sound
like a complete hypocrite. Here in Major League Baseball, they've
obviously had p D scandals. They currently have a situation
where guys are using substances to create a better spin
(32:37):
rate on the baseball. And so that's the latest one
the Astros have. U they had you were banging trash
cans and then they were, they had shock treatment devices
on their on their torsos that would tip them off
to pitches, videoing, video devices, recording everything. So like, baseball
has had all these scandals and we condemn all of them.
(32:57):
Yet players in the end of fell get pop four
games for p d s and I'm like, I get it.
Physical sport. The Patriots are filming sidelines and I go, hey, look,
just trying to get a competitive advantage here. And then
Tom Brady or other players maybe deflate footballs and I'm like, yeah,
I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't really
(33:18):
give him an edge. Why am I such a hypocrite
when it comes to the NFL? It's a it's a
great question. I think it's in part because there's a
lot more variables and there's a lot of things that
need to go right in order for something to be successful.
And by the way, the deflate Gate one was the
best because if you actually read through the deflate Gate report,
(33:39):
the data suggested that it's harder to throw a deflated
football than it is one that's pumped up to the
accepted amount, if not more. And so actually what it
proved was Tom Brady was playing at a disadvantage with
a with a deflated football, so that one you gotta
throw out. Did you ever have a nerf football when
(33:59):
you were a kid. Of course, who didn't. I had
the one with the John Elway on the sidewhere said
John Away through a ninety yards. So then every time
you go out in your backyard you would try to
throw the ball as far as physically possible, hoping that
you could beat John Elway, who threw it ninety yards.
I don't want anyone touching the balls after that. I
don't want anyone rubbing them. To me, those balls are perfect.
(34:19):
What was that Bob Craft? All right? So here's here's
the thing, um, I want just say this when it
comes to nerve footballs, I wish they had the vintage
orne one brought all the way back. But to your point,
if if a dog ever got ahold of your nerve football,
it never spun the same ever again. So of course
it would be more difficult to throw a football if
(34:40):
it's deflated. Like That's what I didn't understand about the
whole discussion when it came to Tom Brady. Well are
we really getting into this again? Okay? So the reason
why you'd want to deflate a little bit of air
out of it is it makes it easier to grip,
in particular in cold weather. Now, I believe the game
in which it was discovered was an Indie which is
a dome, which is why it literally doesn't make any
(35:02):
sense why you'd want to have them deflated for that reason.
Was that a Foxborough though I remember was it in Foxborough?
Was it in so I think it would make more
sense if it was in Foxboro because if it's a
colder weather game, you want to deflate it a little
bit so you had a little better grip on the
football as a quarterback. And it also makes it a
(35:23):
softer ball to catch for their receivers, so it helps
them on that end to now again harder to throw
in particular downfield, so it almost kind of limits your
downfield throwing. But if you remember back during that time,
New England was really more spreading the field out and
kind of dinking and dunking underneath to get yards after
the catch. So if it was at Foxborough, which I'd
(35:45):
have to go back and look for some reason, I'm
like picturing to Quell Jackson, who I believed you pick
off of football or somehow we gotta turnover, and he
was holding onto it on the sidelines, right, and that's
how he discovered. He's like, man, this is pretty deflated. Um,
and so technically my old teammate, my buddy to quell.
He might have been the whistleblower. He might have started
that whole thing. Yeah, I don't even know if he
(36:06):
meant to do it. He was just like, hey, look
at this, Like what you look at it? It's like
it's like finding you know, uh, you know, the murder
weapon in the street and going, hey, what's what's going
on here? Yeah, come on, I know what I'm doing.
I thought we were going a different direction. No, No,
I mean we could will end up right back on
Sunday nights. All right. So here's here's what I want
to ask you. All right, Let's just say, I don't know,
(36:28):
hypothetically speaking, you wanted to add a substance to a
football because you wanted to be able to give yourself
an advantage. And I'm not talking about taking air out
of the balls. That that's you know, like two thousand,
fifteen fourteen, stuff like that. That's back in the day.
It's ancient history. I'm talking present day are you going
(36:48):
Spider Tech? Are you? I mean, what are we talking?
Are you going Chris go? Do we want some basiline? W?
I don't know. I mean there's a lot of polish.
You want it tacky. You do not want w D forty,
no Crisco, nothing that's gonna make it worse. Vassal And
(37:10):
I remember I used to go over to guys when
they would be carrying the football and they put vasseling
all over their arms because they don't want to wear sleeves.
I'm like, dude, to wipe that stuff off, like, get
it off of the football because that's gonna be a
fumble later on. Um, you want tackiness, so you'd be
looking for any sort of stick them, any sort of
spider tag, spits live. I don't care what you use.
(37:31):
You want some sort of tackiness with it? Oh man,
I just like I I just I love cheating. I
love scandals. I think it's like it's so fun. It's
just so much fun. Man. All right, Brady, let's do
it again tomorrow. What do you say? It sounds good.
Hosts And Creators
Brady Quinn
LaVar Arrington
Jonas Knox
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