April 8, 2022 • 46 mins
Friday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Jonas Knox and Brady Quinn welcome LaVar Arrington onto the Tiger Woods bandwagon after an impressive Day 1 at The Masters. A discussion of whether or not Mike Mularkey revealing his hiring process with the Titans was inherently racist and Deebo Samuel joins the trend of scrubbing social media in his contract negotiations.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Is the best of two pros and a couple of
show with LaVar Areas, Rady Quinn and Jonas Knocks on
four Radio. So let me tell you a little tale. Alright,
So back a few years ago. Tartan Fields. It's a
golf course in Dublin, Ohio. Beautiful Dublin, Ohio, right outside Columbus, Ohio.
(00:23):
You guys are probably not familiar, but it's a wonderful place.
And I was there for a charity golf tournament and
the host of the tournament, this guy is like big dude,
like six four, like just jazz. Like if I if
I had a protein company, I'd be like, I want
him to sponsor me, and I want him to do
it right out of college heading into the NFL. But
never mind all that. And he says to me, goes,
(00:44):
you know what, man, if we ever do a Friday
radio show together, it's got to have a theme. I'm like,
you thinking golf theme. He goes, no, no no, no, even
if it's the Masters, there's gotta be a specific theme
that applies fifty to Fridays a year. And I said,
what's that? And he grabbed me and he said, football,
come on Friday. Yeah, yeah, quick, come on Friday, Come on,
(01:17):
come on Friday. Yeah. Uh, it is a football Friday.
But far the the lead story is the performance of
Tiger Woods. After day one. He has tied for tenth.
(01:39):
He is a shot under par. I think, much better
than what a lot of people expected him to do.
But that is the way better than I expected, that's
for certain. Yes, and um, look it's been it's been
fun to see this whole thing play out. But there
was a legit buzz watching that. Um, it was making
the rounds on social media. So uh so Tiger Woods
(02:00):
performing well. Uh, Now, never mind the fact that song
j M is the leader at five under part of course,
it doesn't. It's all about Tiger so rare Tigers. It's
like being in the lead after the first quarter in
a football game. It's great, you feel like you got
(02:22):
some momentum. Uh, that doesn't mean you're necessarily going to win. Um.
That's why whether it's m or Cameron Smith who led
for a good portion of yesterday, um, it doesn't really matter.
I mean, first off, you know, being that he's tied
at ten, if you're looking at it there it is
you think that he's going to make the cut, but
(02:43):
you never know how today could go, especially giving his
injuries and stuff. So I look at it and I say,
I think he's coming back. Not going to make the cut.
He's gonna make the cut. He's gonna make it. If
he just plays like he did yesterday. I think he'll
make the cat. I don't think you said it much
(03:04):
before it. Come on, the hell is this? Come on?
I wanna I got the tiger? Oh just Kathy Berry.
What's your name? Kathy Parry? Cath fan hair? Turn it up?
Got two big reasons? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they calls. Yeah
(03:33):
the Yeah. Did you guys see the picture I sent
of you of him teeing off? No, I'm pretty sure
i'd sent it in the our little chat, but you
got you definitely were sending Who sent that? Oh that
was Lee? That sentence? Yeah, Lee has a different interpretation
of tigers. We'll just put it back. Oh, you mean
(03:53):
all the people that were at the that we're standing
there when he's sitting with the tea box, did you
see that? Yeah, he had, he had. I'll say that's thousands.
I think it's fair to say, right, yeah, you're sitting
there watching him. First off, for anybody's golf before. I mean,
I know these guys are used to it, or maybe
to a degree they're used to it, but I would,
(04:14):
I would, I would be so concerned about just taking
out someone's face, like I mean, full on, like face off,
like absolutely smashing a driver duck cook into their face.
And next thing I know, it's John Travolta. It's Nikki Cage.
We're doing face off to fix this person's face. The second,
where do you get off getting to call las I'm
(04:39):
just saying from the times I've talked to him, it's
it's Nikki Cage. That's his persona when he goes out
by the way. What an awful actor. I yeah, he
was made for those National Treasure movies. He's perfect in those.
But isn't he Isn't he the main guy in um Crudes,
the movie that when they're on the airplane and the
(05:01):
in the image there is a dope movie bad ghost Rider.
He was great ghost My man, Jimmy just Shimmy or
what Jimmy? Is that his best role with you know,
leaving Las Vegas, just because it was, you know, pretty
spot on with who he is a pul fixing dude.
Fiction Mazelle Archer, careful, Jon's gonna start talking about the
(05:29):
gimp again from not doing it now I refused it.
What did you try to be a professional? What did
you guys feel about Tiger's his shirt? Did you like it?
Is he not yoked up? Or what is forty six? Dude?
He's stroked. He's definitely strong. He could say he was
looking dude coming back all clean? Huh what I'm just saying,
(05:53):
I mean, like, what are the what's the testing done
in on the p g A can you take it like?
Probably we got a little bit of it, Probably got
a little bit of growth going on there, which, by
the way, recovering from an injury. I have no issues
whatsoever with a little h I don't mind at all.
I just he looks he might have a little bit
of testosterone going up in into the situation. Man, he
(06:15):
looks better physically than he did when he won the
Masters in what like he looks he looks like he's
in better shape now. And this is coming off almost
guys A question like honestly, because I've heard all kinds
of different theories and and you're talking about him being
jacked up, right, So the one theory that I heard
about Tiger Woods, and and I don't want to say
(06:37):
that I'm ignorant because I just don't watch golf. I'm
not in the Gulf. Golf isn't my thing. But I
heard this theory about tiger Woods, and it was that
golf was actually historically intended to be your exercise. No
one exercised to play golf. That's why you saw so
many golfers that just you know, they didn't have like
(06:59):
the great as bodies or we you know, we have
fun talking about how golfers don't they don't look like
football players. They they look like golfers. But Tiger Woods
started working out to play golf, and then you started
seeing a whole bunch of guys that started looking like,
you know, more athletically inclined that we're swinging the clubs.
(07:22):
Is there any validity to that story that it became
more of a thing to work out to go play golf. Well,
I mean, the the origin of golf had an exercise
element too when it start in Scotland. That that's correct
to rocking the chorus, all that doing all that. Uh,
players have definitely realized, I mean, this is this is
(07:45):
part of what's occurred. I think in all sports, especially
with throwing and you know, swinging stuff, there's got to
be a certain amount of mobility you have, right, and
strength training can sometimes get in the way of that. Right.
You've seen athletes get too height, they can't turn, they
can't bend, they can't do the things they need to do.
Like boxers, if they're too yoked up, they get tired
(08:06):
too quick, and they don't have that good movement. You
know what, I'm right, So you so you so to
your point, like you see that often a basketball player,
same thing, right, you see that. So there's that fine
line of of being strong, training um and and looking
the part, but also not looking too much the part
where then people are like, all right, can you actually
(08:26):
do the physical activity needs to do. But I think
what happened is, especially in today's golf game, guys are
hitting the ball so far of course start getting longer,
and guys have realized that if they can't hit the
ball a certain distance, and like this was more d
shamboos um I guess strategy during COVID he went and
(08:49):
started power lifting, putting on all this weight, all this
muscle mass, so he could crush drives and his theory was,
if he's hitting basically a wedge and on the majority
of par four's, or he's getting two par five's, you know,
on the green comfortably for an eagle chance. Um, more
often than not he's gonna score low. He's gonna be
(09:10):
rewarded for that, and and and he has at times.
But I don't know that you know that whole entire
UH strategy has worked. But I think most people would say,
you have to do it so much to the point
where you have enough data actually analyze it. So the
answer to your question is, yes, it's become a much
bigger piece of golfers training and them trying to get
stronger and more powerful to hit the ball further and
(09:33):
really probably be more consistent and throughout the course of
the season because over the course of the season they
might get warned out a little bit as they're playing.
So it's definitely the perception of training and strength training
with golf has definitely changed. Uh. This was Tiger Woods
afterwards talking about his performance Round one at Augusta with
the ESPN. I felt good. The whole idea was to
(09:55):
keep pushing, but keep recovering, and you know that's the
hard part is each every night to recover. And I've
been doing that. I figured once adrenaline kicks in and
we get fired up and I get into my my
little world. Um, I should build a handle business. Uh
he this is the conversation people are gonna start talking about. Well,
he's that's the conversation. All I'm saying is you're talking
(10:18):
about here's what I'm sorry if you go back and
look at the first tea box and all the people
around to do that sport, which I would say, you know,
like I don't. I mean, I know you're not as
into it. I try to. IM trying to play as
much golf as I can. I think it's the hardest
sport to make professionally compared to anything else. All Right,
it is the hardest. Considering this is what players on tour,
(10:41):
and then even that like a lot of those guys,
it's hard for them to stay on the tour. But
of the world of varying agents. You got a hundred,
that's all you got, and you gotta be able to
consistently score low enough to be able to stay on
for that ride, right, and you're gotta be able to
make cuts like I had a buddy in high school,
(11:01):
great golfer, made the PGA Tour one year, got through
Q Schoore Q school school. He couldn't he couldn't make
enough cuts. That was it. And if you went out
and play with him, say, my god, this guy could
do everything with the ball. It's amazing. But that's just
that's how hard that sport is. It's unlike anything else
I think there is so like when you watch the
t shot and you watch him play at that level,
(11:23):
even a forty six after injuries everything else, like he's
got to go to a different places. It's when it
comes to uh like his performance and everybody talking about
how he's gonna play moving forward. The The big conversation
we mentioned this yesterday was all right, conditioning wise, how
is he gonna be day to walking the course, going
(11:44):
back and forth, because coming off the injuries, that's that's
really where people are wondering, not really questioning his ball
striking ability, but the wear and tear in his body,
having the wall he birto was he feeling Spra was
keep pushing, but keep recovering, and you know that's the
hard part on the brow and kicks in and we
(12:10):
get fired up and I get into my my little world. Um,
I should build a handle business. I see how that. Hey,
Bert Toe, so you're saying so so so hold on,
Bert though, So you're telling me that Tiger Woods felt
good about all of those prospects that he saw in
that gallery when he was about to hit that ball?
What what? What was his response when they said he's
(12:32):
the whole idea was to keep pushing, but keep recovering.
I mean, listen, should you think you get down like
that and a gust? Hell yeah, I mean like hell
yeah at you. They're charging a buck fifty for an
egg salad sandwich, al right, that none of those shenanigans
are going on. You should respect this man. Four dollars
(12:53):
a beer. Yeah, somebody rewarded the Tiger with something after
playing like that yesterday, something I know for certain if
he hold on, if he falls apart today, LaVar, you
say it's purely because of the distractions. I think gets distractions.
(13:13):
I think we're seeing vintage Tiger baby, Okayed, Tiger Ah, Now,
I get it. When he was roaring like for real,
real roory. This is the sort of activity that was
happening out. Okay, let's help. So it's not bad theory.
(13:36):
But here's here's the hard part is if you didn't
apply this to other sports news, are we saying like,
if Deshaun Watson starts playing really well up, he must
use the must act on Instagram? Deshaun's gonna hear that
joke the rest of his career. I don't care how
these cases turn out. And there's more on the Deshaun
(13:59):
Loose today least of his career. It's too Charles Nice
and Loser. Be sure to catch live editions of Two
Pros and a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LaVar
Arrington and Jonas Knocks week days at six am Easter
three am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I
(14:19):
Heart Radio app. Is a wild off season in the NFL. Uh,
And it's you know, there's a lot of free agency,
a lot of trades, things like that social media scrubbing. Yeah,
and there's also a lot of people getting in trouble
as far as organizations, you know, the Jerry Jones scandals
out there. We're gonna have more on the latest on
Deshaun Watson coming up, and then you've all of a
sudden got the Tennessee Titans forget about Dan Snyder competing. Yeah,
(14:43):
but I feel like there's nothing really different about that.
It's every season more. Yeah, well there's Sason. Um. So
the Tennessee Titans all of a sudden find themselves, uh
in a little bit of hot water because um former
Titans head coach Mike Malarkey appear heard on a two
thousand twenty podcast. And if you're wondering why this is
(15:04):
news now, Uh, it's because there was the Ray Horton,
a longtime assistant in the NFL. He joined the Brian
Flores lawsuit along with Steve Wilkes, former Cardinals head coach,
and ray Horton said that he knew for certain that
the sham interview with the Titans back in sixteen when
(15:25):
he was interviewing for the job. He knew it was
a sham all the way through, and that Mike mallarkey
also was aware of it. And so part of the
evidence quote unquote that they used to try and state
his case was this appearance on a podcast called The
Steeler's Realm. So this was the former Titans head coach
Mike mllarkey talking about the hiring process with the Titans
back in I allowed myself at one point than when
(15:48):
I was in Tennessee, to get caught up in something
I regret. I still regret it. But the ownership there.
Amy Adams Trunk and her family came in and told
me I was going to be the head coach in
two thousand sixteen before they went through the Rooney rule.
And so I sat there knowing I was the head
coach and sixteen as they went through this fake hiring process,
(16:12):
knowing by knowing a lot of the coaches that they
were interviewing, knowing how much they prepared to go through
those interviews, knowing that everything they could do and they
had no chance of getting that job. And actually the
GM John Robinson, he was in on the interview with me,
he's he had no idea why he's interviewing me, that
I have the job already. Wow. So there was Mike mclarkey,
(16:33):
the former Titan, said, coach, to hear what you say
is about this? Um? Well, I think my initial responses, um,
I realized there is a minority coach that was satisfying
the Rooney rules. Part of this. I believe that was
Ray Horton. But that doesn't make it racist because there's
a lot of other white coaches who are part of
(16:53):
that interview process as well, and so this speaks to
a greater issue with the hiring process in general in
the NFL. It's something that Pete Carroll touched on in
the owners meetings, is that any private business or institution,
when they identify someone they want to be the next
leader of that organization, whether it's CEO, head coach, whatever
we're talking about. That's more of the issue is they
(17:15):
they've identified the person that they want and they're gonna
go through the process of interviewing everyone else. But in
most cases they don't have an open mind. This isn't
a democracy, you know. They're not going out bringing a
bunch of candidates and have everyone vote on it. They
have someone who they're looking at. They have someone who
they believe would give them the best chance moving forward
to win. Obviously that didn't work out and it being
(17:36):
Mike Mike vrabel now. But that's the problem with this
is as damning as it sounds, that to me is
not speaking necessarily to racism, because every you know, it's
more of the entire process of the hiring process in
the NFL, where they've got a guy identified, and there's
plenty of other candidates too who are part of the
(17:59):
majority who aren't I noorities who are also preparing and
being overlooked as well. And so if you want to
lump this then as part of it, okay, Like I
think the best example in what's come out resurfaced isn't
that it's Steve Wilkes. You know, he to me has
the best case of being a one and done the
way it was handled, everything else that he endured during
(18:22):
his time in Arizona, his case and what he's trying
to point out. And I don't know if he can
prove it because I don't know what evidence he has,
but as far as how was all handled he has,
he has the best case to me. Because the other
thing that we didn't discuss is the Houston, Texas now
of officially become part of this lawsuit, you know, given
(18:42):
the firing of David Cauley and then how they ended
up not bringing on Brian Flores due to the lawsuit.
The only problem is then they hired Levey Smith. So
you know, these are all examples that the attorneys are
doing their best to persuade the media and put public
pressure on the NFL and on these teams. What it
still doesn't speak to, you know, outright racism or examples
(19:05):
of that, you know. And that's the hard part about
the Brian Flores lawsuit, in my opinion, is when they've
come out with these these big claims, like even though
losing in order to you know, get a higher draft
pick so they can maybe get Joe Burrows since that
was discussed right, so far, we haven't seen any evidence
(19:27):
of communication between Steven Ross and Brian Flores that supports
that claim. And all we know is that Brian Flores
sent a memo to the two executives claiming this. If
there's no proof, then how do we know he wasn't
trying to set them up in the first place. That's
set this whole process up. I mean that that's that's
the hard part is there's we just haven't seen any
(19:48):
damning evidence are proven. I don't I don't feel like
this is that. I think the issue here kind of
goes to what you're saying, Q, is that racism can
it can be tangible, but then sometimes it can't be.
It's it's very difficult to measure racism, and that's what
(20:13):
makes it difficult because it's like, Okay, sometimes you can
use hard evidence and say that's racism, makes sense, easy
to say, here's the evidence. In some cases, it's just
not that simple. It's just not that black and white,
so to speak, and and how to how to approach it.
(20:34):
So you wanna hit the button on that. Let me
ask you this because this, this scenario came up. This
scenario came up over this past hiring cycle. Obviously, I
know guys who played turn got into coaching, and you
know other guys who have been coaches, and this scenario
came up. I had a coach reach out and say, hey, um,
I'm gonna tough spot. This is what I'm thinking. I
(20:56):
really don't have many options. I said, well, what do
you mean. You've been coaching for a while now, played
for a while. He goes, well, I'm I'm a coach
in a position group that no coach will hire me
because I'm white and that position group is minority, you know,
mostly minorities. He said, So they want a minority had
coached to be that, And that's what everyone's telling me.
That's what the prerogative is. Whether it's a wide receiver dB, whatever,
(21:18):
we're talking about right, you know, running backs coach, and
he's like, I'm gonna have to go to a different
level or a different part of football in order to
get a job. And you know, so he so he
was kind of calling inquiring about like assistance for that
staff that he was trying to put together. But you know,
I look at that and I go, well, how do
people view that? Yeah, I mean that that's that's legitimate.
(21:38):
A guy who's got credentials, who played in the league,
who's now coached since he got out of the league,
and he can't get a job because of the color
of his skin. He's in the majority, not the minority.
You know, I think it's still I think it's still
goes to the idea because because you gotta understand, racism
is based upon prejudice and discrimination. It's not a color.
(22:02):
You know, people, people who don't get deeper into the
meaning of what racism represents, you look at it as
a black and white issue. Is it is it in reverse?
If if you're in the majority, but you're also in
the situation that you just mentioned, Racism is the scrutiny
(22:25):
and and the discrimination of what it is that that
you want and and and I think that that's ultimately
what it comes down to. One thing that I always
say is show me somebody without prejudice, and I'll show
you someone without education. The more you live, the longer
you live life, the more you're you're educated, and the
(22:48):
more you're educated, the more you form, You form ideas,
you form beliefs, you form understanding of what the world
is around you, and you you naturally create prejudice. And
it doesn't mean that it's always towards a color or
a racial group. It could be towards how much money
(23:11):
you make. It could be towards what type of clothes
you wear, It could be towards how you wear your hair.
There are so many different caddy. There is an endless
amount of categories of of prejudice. And and so when
you look at these type of scenarios, I think the
(23:32):
the validation of or the validity of what this is
all about is really the feelings of those coaches that
are involved. And I think that that's ultimately what it
comes down to. Even in the lawsuit, it will be
more so of the evidence and maybe the credibility the
validity of the people who are presented in the lawsuit.
(23:57):
Versus all of the evidence, like hard tangible evidence, because
it's difficult to measure the level of prejudice or racism
as as the word that is used so so prominently,
it's hard to gauge how much it is. So now
(24:19):
you gotta look at the body of people who are
saying it. There are a lot of coaches at the
at the high school level, there are a lot of
coaches at the college level, there are a lot of
coaches at the pro level, and their narrative is pretty
much the same. I'm not going to get an opportunity
because of the color of my skin. So now it
(24:39):
comes down to in this this this suit, I don't
know is that I don't know how that they're tried
or how they go about doing it. Is it just
a judge, is it is it a jury? I don't
I'm not even sure how that all works. But I
will say it will come down to whoever is hearing
the case. It will ultimately come down to a lot
of those elements versus just presenting hardcore evidence that says
(25:05):
this is the racism, this is where it came from,
and this is why it happened. I think that that
has to be taken in consideration in this type of
situation unless they've got evidence of the Titans owner saying, hey,
you're getting the job because you're white specifically, I don't
see how they can prove this is racism because the
(25:25):
reason he and he ended up getting the job Mike
Malarkey is because they fired Ken wizzen Hunt mid season.
It was Marcus Mariota's rookie year and they they felt
more comfortable with the direction of Marcus Mariota being paired
up with with Mike Malarkey moving forward. So like Doug
Marrone also had an interview with the Titans that off
season that was also a sham. Well, Doug Maron's white.
(25:48):
So I just I don't see how it's applicable, but
to make it again, to make the examples based off
of a white person dealing with with those those circus,
let me fin I'm in the middle of my point.
You hold on one second, blet me just say this.
The lawsuits are claiming that if you read the language
coming out, that's what they're doing. It's not like Jonas
(26:12):
is doing that or I'm doing that. If you read
what they're putting out there is part of the lawsuit,
they are literally saying in there Ray Horton, a coaches minority,
and the end up hiring Mike Malarkey who's white, Like
that's what they're doing. It still comes down to whatever
the experiences are of what that person that is listening
(26:32):
to that trial, what they have experienced, what they've seen,
and how that connects to their education. As being a judge,
the person seeing over that case in particular, we'll dictate
a lot of how it's approached. And that's the bottom line.
If if it happens to be someone who sees it
from the point of view of how you guys are
(26:54):
looking at it, then that's what becomes relevant and prevalent
in how they're approaching that case. If it's someone that
has experienced it in their life, and it couldn't necessarily
be deemed racist because this person didn't get it either
because of one thing or another, and there white, it
(27:14):
doesn't want that doesn't justify it not being Maybe it
doesn't justify being that, but it doesn't necessarily justify it
not being that. And I think that that's ultimately what
it comes down to, because there is no way to
truly measure the levels of what represents what racism represents,
(27:34):
and that's the point of it. I think that that's
that's the point. I think that's a slippery slope then,
like the standard at some point, otherwise people can just say, hey,
I feel like someone acted racist towards me. I'm gonna
sue you. I mean, and if I find the right
judge of the right jury that says, yeah, you know,
I've I've felt that way before too. You know, we
(27:56):
should award this guy a million millions of dollars. But
that's how things work regardless, the same as he Here's
another situation that happened at that time. So Lovey Smith
was the head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They
fired him and they gave Dirt Cutter the job. Similar
circumstance and reasoning behind the firing and the hiring of
(28:19):
Dirt Cutter. They had a young quarterback, same draft class,
Jamis Winston, and they felt more comfortable with Dirt Cutter
directing his career as opposed to Lovey Smith. But we've
never heard once that was a firing done based on race,
And that was a black coach who was fired and
a white coach who got the white people aren't going
to handle things, I understand. But but the idea that
(28:42):
we're going to go back in time to that that
period and say because Mike mclarkey felt guilty about the
hiring process, I just don't know where the evidence, the
hard evidence is. Well, you know that the Titans were
racist when white coaches were interviewed for the same sham interview,
pros says and went through the same process as Tarall
(29:02):
Austin or or or any of these other guys. Ray
Horton that we're also part of the process the entire time.
I just I don't know where. I just some may
say that that's the justification of interviewing a white person.
It doesn't. Again, it now comes down to what your
interpretation of it is. I mean, and that's that's by individual,
right And and again I guess that's that's your opinion,
(29:25):
and we'll see things good. The problem is the arbitration
or how this is gonna work is you know, Brian
Flores has been trying to get the NFL to reject
the Dolphins request for an arbitration hearing, which is within
all the contracts for these head coaches. Right, if there
is a if there's an issue like this, it then
(29:46):
goes to arbitration first, which the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell oversea.
The problem is is a lot of those things that
are set in arbitration don't come to light. And I
think that's part of the reason too why you're hearing
some of this leak its way out, Because the attorneys
for Brian Flores realized that, a he needs more people
backing him, other coaches who feel this way, who are
(30:08):
willing to take that stance, whether it's Ray Horton or
Steve Wilkes or anyone else who would join it. Um.
Which you know, it took a while to get to
this point, but I do think that shows strength with
some of these coaches. You know, maybe there is a
degree of evidence that they were trying to build up
to make more of a case for these guys, whatever
(30:28):
the case is. Um. That's the next steps of it
is whether or not this thing goes into arbitration and
really what comes from that. But that's gonna be the
hard thing for him is is those the conversations had
in arbitration are not gonna come to the light of day.
Who do the arbitrators work for with the NFL and Roger.
It goes to Roger Goodell, but probably why he wants
(30:51):
it to not be an arbitration. I mean, I was
that they're they're trying to put public pressure on the
NFL to not let this go to arbitration rather be
heard in the court of law. That's what they're They're
trying to bypass this particular step because they know it
could be damning to their case or the evidence they're
trying to provide. And so if you put enough public
pressure on the NFL, the NFL is and they'm gonna say, okay,
like let's let's let this be heard in court and
(31:14):
we'll see how someone else you know, stands for this,
and we cannot be a part of this and not
be accused of manipulating the process. Be sure to catch
live editions of Two Pros and a Cup of Joe
with Brady Quinn, LaVar Errington and Jonas Knocks week days
at six am e Stern, three am Pacific. Hey, it's Ben.
Host to the Fifth Hour with Ben Mallory. Would mean
(31:34):
a lot to have you join us on our weekly
auditory journey. You're asking, what in God's name is the
Fifth Hour. I'll tell you it's a spin off of
the Ben Maller Show. Cold Hit Overnights on MS are
Why should you listen? Picture if you will? A world
will we chat with captains of industry in media, sports
and more every week Explorer some amazing facts about human
nature and more. Let's sen to the Fifth Hour with
(31:56):
Ben Mallow or the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast
or wherever you get your podcast. Deebo Samuel, the all
purpose wide receiver for the San Francisco forty nine ers.
He has made a statement he wants a contract, and
in this day and age, how do you go about
wanting a contract? I want to contract. He has scrubbed
his social media of references. That's what kids these days.
(32:22):
I can't stand it. It is such childish behavior. Yet
it happens all the time now. And I just want
to know who's the ahole who started this whole thing.
It wasn't Kyler Murray because it happened well before him.
Was it somebody in the NBA who started to started
with relationships, got and it evolved into businesses and and
(32:42):
other things. But it started with breakups. It's like, I'm
gonna scrub this thing. I'm gonna I'm gonna purge you
from my life. Here's what I hate about it. It
gives more credibility to social media. Agreed, That's what I
hate about totally. Like, I honestly could care less if
(33:05):
that's the tactic for his negotiations. Right, And this is
all born out of the fact that Stefon Diggs got
a new deal. All these wide receivers are getting new
deals after the Davante Adams Tyreek killed deals. Right, Everyone's
trying to cash in because the markets being reset. So
I understand all that. That happens in all industries, right.
(33:27):
You know after the Tony Romo deal that some people,
some people on the show said it was impossible, you've
now seen that part they done. It was let's just
put it this way, okay, um. I heard they were
going to change their name to Joni. This is her
new listeners Taken out of context. By the way, if
(33:49):
Tony Romo gets ten million dollars a year, I'm getting
a sex change. And that was a long time ago.
That was on something like This Morning. Yeah. Well look,
and first of all, wouldn't be Joni, would be Janice.
Al Right, it just sounds better you know, kind of
sounds more at least you declared. But anyway, the point is,
(34:09):
then look at what happens with Fox and Troy Aikman.
He's like, well, Rum was getting paid that, all right,
I've been doing this for a while. I've got three
Super Bowls. Yeah, so he obviously ends up being a
part of that. Kirk cerb Street then not only lops
on what he's doing with ESPN, but he you know,
(34:30):
takes on the responsibilities of Thursday night football now. And
I'm sure with the combination of what he's getting paid,
he's in that ballpark now. So it's not just football.
I mean, this is something that happens in all sorts
of other industry. That's the thing is like, that's the
difference is they go about it probably a different way
(34:52):
than scrubbing social media. But that's what I hate is like,
think about all the people at Meta right, who which
is owns Instagram? Right? Facebook? Meta they changed their name
to you know all that that's a whole another conversation.
But I think about all the people there who when
they see this, it's a good thing for them, high
(35:14):
five and all around. Hey, did you see Deebo Samuel
scrubbed his social media account. It's it's like they always
win in the end because it's only going to create
more attraction to everyone clicking on his page to go yep,
nothing there, and then they work out a deal. Everything
comes back, or you know, they start working on a
new deal. Kyler Murray for example. You know, he never
(35:36):
really had a legit explanation. He just said you old
heads wouldn't understand all his stuffs back up. You know,
which is crazy? You know what I think it is.
Let me tell you, guys, I was thinking about this
one weird thinking about it. But but but here's here's
the pattern of it. The pattern of it comes from
a lot of these guys that are in the league.
(35:58):
Now we're recruited through social media. Their interactions all took
place through social media, so they're there. Well, that explains
a lot. With Shawn Watson. Then, yes, while it may
be a funny punchline, that's the truth. Everything goes through
social media. Now, the interaction goes through social media. You
(36:20):
want to meet somebody, use social media. You want to
break the ice, break the ice through social media. It's like,
if you think about it, the validation comes when a
college reaches out to you. The validation comes when that
that uh anestetician um that becomes a masseus responds to
(36:42):
your your inbox message. Yeah, what do you call it?
Is that? Like? Not an institition? You know what is not?
You stumbled into a new term we need to use
for these esteticians and neition like like flabola, frobolotists or
fob Just let you say that one. What the hell
(37:05):
are you trying to say? People that deal with your blood?
Who are those people? Who are they? Come on? Come on?
We got Lee? What we got little? Some of the
words I just able to say. I mean, you know,
somebody's out there. You can't say any words hematologists? What
is a hematolis? Lobotomist? Is that what it called? The
(37:27):
bottom list? Lee? What is it? It's a phlebotomist, right,
I believe botomust What is pomustotomust? I was gonna say hematologists? Yeah,
I like labar is better to get honest. I think
it's I think it's like the new Hey, these are
estheticians there there, Yeah, yeaheticians, asteticians. Yeah, whatever it is, Yeah,
(37:53):
that's fine. The point is a bung oh, the point
is horrible actually, like, but I will continue to say Anesstetician.
(38:16):
So That'stetician, is it called? That'stetician's Tian. But they become
massus massage therapists through social media, Like I can change
who I want to be, and that is the essence
really of what social media is. I can change who
(38:39):
I am and be what I ultimately want to be.
That's why you have all of these filters. That's why
you have all of these different like little tools that
you can use on I find myself getting I've never
really used a filter. I've never done that. That's just
never been my thing, and I even never felt comfortable
using filters. But I do get creative with how I
(39:02):
use the music on there. When they started putting the
music features on there, I got really excited about that,
you know what I mean, Bert, I got really excited.
Uh what do you mean? Yeah? Tell me you don't
use a filter for your cough And so that ends my,
uh my reasoning on what it plays with social media. Bert,
(39:26):
I don't care if somebody calls me an old guy.
I think it's pathetic. I think people that use these
social media platforms to make a statement have some balls
to understand. Everybody who understands it understands it. First of all,
does anybody think that Deebo Samuel is going to get
a contract extension because he scrubbed his Instagram or his
snap face. He's gonna he's going to create the conversation
(39:49):
right now. The conversation was created a long time ago.
They said, months ago. Business the forty Niners said, months ago,
We've already put aside a certain amount of money for Joe,
for Nick Bosa rather and for Deebo Samuel. Like, okay,
they're they're working in the negotiation. Can I ask this,
(40:12):
Is there any reservation in anyone's mind? Not, I'm not
Deebo Samuel's a good player. He had a great year. Like,
let's not get the two things misconstruedor or twisted. He's
a good player right now who had a great year.
If you go back through his his rookie and second
(40:32):
year in the league, he showed flashes, right, he was
banged up, but even his rookie season he was he
was good. It wasn't like he had the season he
had this past year. And I just look at it,
I'm like, I don't know, man, Like it's one of those.
It's similar to Tyreek Hill. He's in Miami. He's on
a talented roster, at least that group at wide receiver,
(40:56):
and you know, just by looking at it, I know
he had to share touches with Travis Kelsey. But you
know you're also talking about, you know, production with a
quarterback who is year and year out. If you just
the best in the league, that's not where to us
just trying to prove he can be a franchise quarterback,
not even the best quarterback. So there's no way Tyreek
(41:17):
Hill is going to equate to the deal that he
signed in Miami with his production. Like the stats aren't
going to add up all all the box score readers
and the people who use that to justify anything. It's
not gonna add up. The fantasy owners who grab him
on their team, it's not gonna add up. They'll be disappointed.
I was telling you right now. If the forty Niners
move on from Jimmy Garoppolo, which it sounds like they're
(41:39):
going to at some point, he's not gonna be as
much the guy. He's not. I mean, if you look
at how they there, it can use him all they
want but until Trey Lance proves that he can be
that proficient as a pocket passer, I just he's gonna
have a harder time getting his production. I just I
(42:02):
think this is one where they're they'll sign into an extension,
I would think, But I don't know how you feel.
I would not put Debo up there with the track
record of what Davante Adams has done, or Tyreek Hill
has done, or Stefan Digs for that matter. Like, I
just I wouldn't put him up there with that because
his production is based on what he does in the
run game. Tips Well, it's it's partially that, right, Like
(42:26):
we can we can say it's partially that. But you know,
even if you mean his his his pass game production
is pretty ridiculous. He leaved, he led the league in
yards perception. I mean every time he ball on average,
he's getting eighteen yards. So but but I'm just saying,
right now, is that an outlier? Are we ever gonna
see that sort of production from him? But I think
(42:47):
the point is they had to use him in that manner, right,
in that capacity because of injury. Because of injury, Yeah,
And I think you know, ideally they're not gonna want
to go back to bring him as much as they're
not going to run him as life and that and
that goes it. It goes to both of your points.
You're saying it was proficient and running the ball, Brady,
(43:08):
you're saying he was proficient in in yards after the
catch or or what he was going to get when
he caught the ball. Those opportunities that he's going to
get in terms of how versatile he showed he was
and how valuable he was for the forty Niners, was
out of necessity. That was not out of out of
game plan. Is he the main offensive focal point anywhere
(43:30):
else in the league other than San Francisco? Again, it's
it's I don't think he don't need to use him
in the capacity that you did, But but it does
make if a team called San Francisco and said, hey,
we love Deebo Samuel, will give you a you know,
first round pick for it, I think San Francisco would
actually think long and hard about it because I had
the opportunity or the the option of a player that
(43:52):
can show you they can do more than just be
that position. And that's what Deebo Samuel presents. But then
there's the wh on this one. Then there's the wear
and tear on him if you're going to use him
as a running back, like how like how what's the
contract look like? I wonder does he think he's gonna get,
you know, more than Stefon Digs, more than Davante Adams, Like,
I just I don't know that that's where where San
(44:15):
Francisco's mind is at. And they've got what seven million
dollars in cap space, Maybe let me ask you this,
what does he do extraordinarily well? Run the ball, multi faceted,
run the ball like a little bit everything. He's barely
a sub four. He's five ft two pounds, which is
(44:35):
probably more the build of Night. And I'm just saying,
as versatile as he is, as good as he was
last year, I don't know that we're gonna see that
continued production. Whether it's because he's you know, getting that
due to injury or whatever you want to draw to.
Maybe that the lacque or the learning curve for Trey
Lance at that position, no matter what you want to
(44:57):
point to. Everything else, I'm just saying. And if you
look at like Davant Adams, he's a big he's a
bigger wide receiver. He's still grid off the line is that,
but he's a he's a bigger wide receiver, So he's
still no matter what, at the end of his career,
even when he's lost the step, he's gonna have his size,
his hands. His skill set Tyreek Kill is blazing, fast, blazing,
(45:19):
He's always gonna He's always gonna have that until he doesn't.
But you know, it's it's like sometimes those fast guys,
they just stay fast. They're fast forever, still fast today
right now running outside to go get the newspaper coming back.
Dion Sanders went through what he went through, He's probably
still faster than the population right now. So all I'm
(45:41):
saying is is if you look at his skill set
and what he's comprised of, he's a good player. He
had a great season. I don't know if if he
gets this big contract like these other receivers have gotten,
I mean, I think it's it's gonna be tough for
him to equate to what he did last year on
a consistent basis, even in the college Sanhan system. And
(46:02):
it's not hating on it's just it was a unique
scenario where they used them as much as they did
with everything else that they had going on around them.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app
search f s R to listen live.
Is the best of two pros and a couple of
show with LaVar Areas, Rady Quinn and Jonas Knocks on
four Radio. So let me tell you a little tale. Alright,
So back a few years ago. Tartan Fields. It's a
golf course in Dublin, Ohio. Beautiful Dublin, Ohio, right outside Columbus, Ohio.
(00:23):
You guys are probably not familiar, but it's a wonderful place.
And I was there for a charity golf tournament and
the host of the tournament, this guy is like big dude,
like six four, like just jazz. Like if I if
I had a protein company, I'd be like, I want
him to sponsor me, and I want him to do
it right out of college heading into the NFL. But
never mind all that. And he says to me, goes,
(00:44):
you know what, man, if we ever do a Friday
radio show together, it's got to have a theme. I'm like,
you thinking golf theme. He goes, no, no no, no, even
if it's the Masters, there's gotta be a specific theme
that applies fifty to Fridays a year. And I said,
what's that? And he grabbed me and he said, football,
come on Friday. Yeah, yeah, quick, come on Friday, Come on,
(01:17):
come on Friday. Yeah. Uh, it is a football Friday.
But far the the lead story is the performance of
Tiger Woods. After day one. He has tied for tenth.
(01:39):
He is a shot under par. I think, much better
than what a lot of people expected him to do.
But that is the way better than I expected, that's
for certain. Yes, and um, look it's been it's been
fun to see this whole thing play out. But there
was a legit buzz watching that. Um, it was making
the rounds on social media. So uh so Tiger Woods
(02:00):
performing well. Uh, Now, never mind the fact that song
j M is the leader at five under part of course,
it doesn't. It's all about Tiger so rare Tigers. It's
like being in the lead after the first quarter in
a football game. It's great, you feel like you got
(02:22):
some momentum. Uh, that doesn't mean you're necessarily going to win. Um.
That's why whether it's m or Cameron Smith who led
for a good portion of yesterday, um, it doesn't really matter.
I mean, first off, you know, being that he's tied
at ten, if you're looking at it there it is
you think that he's going to make the cut, but
(02:43):
you never know how today could go, especially giving his
injuries and stuff. So I look at it and I say,
I think he's coming back. Not going to make the cut.
He's gonna make the cut. He's gonna make it. If
he just plays like he did yesterday. I think he'll
make the cat. I don't think you said it much
(03:04):
before it. Come on, the hell is this? Come on?
I wanna I got the tiger? Oh just Kathy Berry.
What's your name? Kathy Parry? Cath fan hair? Turn it up?
Got two big reasons? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they calls. Yeah
(03:33):
the Yeah. Did you guys see the picture I sent
of you of him teeing off? No, I'm pretty sure
i'd sent it in the our little chat, but you
got you definitely were sending Who sent that? Oh that
was Lee? That sentence? Yeah, Lee has a different interpretation
of tigers. We'll just put it back. Oh, you mean
(03:53):
all the people that were at the that we're standing
there when he's sitting with the tea box, did you
see that? Yeah, he had, he had. I'll say that's thousands.
I think it's fair to say, right, yeah, you're sitting
there watching him. First off, for anybody's golf before. I mean,
I know these guys are used to it, or maybe
to a degree they're used to it, but I would,
(04:14):
I would, I would be so concerned about just taking
out someone's face, like I mean, full on, like face off,
like absolutely smashing a driver duck cook into their face.
And next thing I know, it's John Travolta. It's Nikki Cage.
We're doing face off to fix this person's face. The second,
where do you get off getting to call las I'm
(04:39):
just saying from the times I've talked to him, it's
it's Nikki Cage. That's his persona when he goes out
by the way. What an awful actor. I yeah, he
was made for those National Treasure movies. He's perfect in those.
But isn't he Isn't he the main guy in um Crudes,
the movie that when they're on the airplane and the
(05:01):
in the image there is a dope movie bad ghost Rider.
He was great ghost My man, Jimmy just Shimmy or
what Jimmy? Is that his best role with you know,
leaving Las Vegas, just because it was, you know, pretty
spot on with who he is a pul fixing dude.
Fiction Mazelle Archer, careful, Jon's gonna start talking about the
(05:29):
gimp again from not doing it now I refused it.
What did you try to be a professional? What did
you guys feel about Tiger's his shirt? Did you like it?
Is he not yoked up? Or what is forty six? Dude?
He's stroked. He's definitely strong. He could say he was
looking dude coming back all clean? Huh what I'm just saying,
(05:53):
I mean, like, what are the what's the testing done
in on the p g A can you take it like?
Probably we got a little bit of it, Probably got
a little bit of growth going on there, which, by
the way, recovering from an injury. I have no issues
whatsoever with a little h I don't mind at all.
I just he looks he might have a little bit
of testosterone going up in into the situation. Man, he
(06:15):
looks better physically than he did when he won the
Masters in what like he looks he looks like he's
in better shape now. And this is coming off almost
guys A question like honestly, because I've heard all kinds
of different theories and and you're talking about him being
jacked up, right, So the one theory that I heard
about Tiger Woods, and and I don't want to say
(06:37):
that I'm ignorant because I just don't watch golf. I'm
not in the Gulf. Golf isn't my thing. But I
heard this theory about tiger Woods, and it was that
golf was actually historically intended to be your exercise. No
one exercised to play golf. That's why you saw so
many golfers that just you know, they didn't have like
(06:59):
the great as bodies or we you know, we have
fun talking about how golfers don't they don't look like
football players. They they look like golfers. But Tiger Woods
started working out to play golf, and then you started
seeing a whole bunch of guys that started looking like,
you know, more athletically inclined that we're swinging the clubs.
(07:22):
Is there any validity to that story that it became
more of a thing to work out to go play golf. Well,
I mean, the the origin of golf had an exercise
element too when it start in Scotland. That that's correct
to rocking the chorus, all that doing all that. Uh,
players have definitely realized, I mean, this is this is
(07:45):
part of what's occurred. I think in all sports, especially
with throwing and you know, swinging stuff, there's got to
be a certain amount of mobility you have, right, and
strength training can sometimes get in the way of that. Right.
You've seen athletes get too height, they can't turn, they
can't bend, they can't do the things they need to do.
Like boxers, if they're too yoked up, they get tired
(08:06):
too quick, and they don't have that good movement. You
know what, I'm right, So you so you so to
your point, like you see that often a basketball player,
same thing, right, you see that. So there's that fine
line of of being strong, training um and and looking
the part, but also not looking too much the part
where then people are like, all right, can you actually
(08:26):
do the physical activity needs to do. But I think
what happened is, especially in today's golf game, guys are
hitting the ball so far of course start getting longer,
and guys have realized that if they can't hit the
ball a certain distance, and like this was more d
shamboos um I guess strategy during COVID he went and
(08:49):
started power lifting, putting on all this weight, all this
muscle mass, so he could crush drives and his theory was,
if he's hitting basically a wedge and on the majority
of par four's, or he's getting two par five's, you know,
on the green comfortably for an eagle chance. Um, more
often than not he's gonna score low. He's gonna be
(09:10):
rewarded for that, and and and he has at times.
But I don't know that you know that whole entire
UH strategy has worked. But I think most people would say,
you have to do it so much to the point
where you have enough data actually analyze it. So the
answer to your question is, yes, it's become a much
bigger piece of golfers training and them trying to get
stronger and more powerful to hit the ball further and
(09:33):
really probably be more consistent and throughout the course of
the season because over the course of the season they
might get warned out a little bit as they're playing.
So it's definitely the perception of training and strength training
with golf has definitely changed. Uh. This was Tiger Woods
afterwards talking about his performance Round one at Augusta with
the ESPN. I felt good. The whole idea was to
(09:55):
keep pushing, but keep recovering, and you know that's the
hard part is each every night to recover. And I've
been doing that. I figured once adrenaline kicks in and
we get fired up and I get into my my
little world. Um, I should build a handle business. Uh
he this is the conversation people are gonna start talking about. Well,
he's that's the conversation. All I'm saying is you're talking
(10:18):
about here's what I'm sorry if you go back and
look at the first tea box and all the people
around to do that sport, which I would say, you know,
like I don't. I mean, I know you're not as
into it. I try to. IM trying to play as
much golf as I can. I think it's the hardest
sport to make professionally compared to anything else. All Right,
it is the hardest. Considering this is what players on tour,
(10:41):
and then even that like a lot of those guys,
it's hard for them to stay on the tour. But
of the world of varying agents. You got a hundred,
that's all you got, and you gotta be able to
consistently score low enough to be able to stay on
for that ride, right, and you're gotta be able to
make cuts like I had a buddy in high school,
(11:01):
great golfer, made the PGA Tour one year, got through
Q Schoore Q school school. He couldn't he couldn't make
enough cuts. That was it. And if you went out
and play with him, say, my god, this guy could
do everything with the ball. It's amazing. But that's just
that's how hard that sport is. It's unlike anything else
I think there is so like when you watch the
t shot and you watch him play at that level,
(11:23):
even a forty six after injuries everything else, like he's
got to go to a different places. It's when it
comes to uh like his performance and everybody talking about
how he's gonna play moving forward. The The big conversation
we mentioned this yesterday was all right, conditioning wise, how
is he gonna be day to walking the course, going
(11:44):
back and forth, because coming off the injuries, that's that's
really where people are wondering, not really questioning his ball
striking ability, but the wear and tear in his body,
having the wall he birto was he feeling Spra was
keep pushing, but keep recovering, and you know that's the
hard part on the brow and kicks in and we
(12:10):
get fired up and I get into my my little world. Um,
I should build a handle business. I see how that. Hey,
Bert Toe, so you're saying so so so hold on,
Bert though, So you're telling me that Tiger Woods felt
good about all of those prospects that he saw in
that gallery when he was about to hit that ball?
What what? What was his response when they said he's
(12:32):
the whole idea was to keep pushing, but keep recovering.
I mean, listen, should you think you get down like
that and a gust? Hell yeah, I mean like hell
yeah at you. They're charging a buck fifty for an
egg salad sandwich, al right, that none of those shenanigans
are going on. You should respect this man. Four dollars
(12:53):
a beer. Yeah, somebody rewarded the Tiger with something after
playing like that yesterday, something I know for certain if
he hold on, if he falls apart today, LaVar, you
say it's purely because of the distractions. I think gets distractions.
(13:13):
I think we're seeing vintage Tiger baby, Okayed, Tiger Ah, Now,
I get it. When he was roaring like for real,
real roory. This is the sort of activity that was
happening out. Okay, let's help. So it's not bad theory.
(13:36):
But here's here's the hard part is if you didn't
apply this to other sports news, are we saying like,
if Deshaun Watson starts playing really well up, he must
use the must act on Instagram? Deshaun's gonna hear that
joke the rest of his career. I don't care how
these cases turn out. And there's more on the Deshaun
(13:59):
Loose today least of his career. It's too Charles Nice
and Loser. Be sure to catch live editions of Two
Pros and a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LaVar
Arrington and Jonas Knocks week days at six am Easter
three am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I
(14:19):
Heart Radio app. Is a wild off season in the NFL. Uh,
And it's you know, there's a lot of free agency,
a lot of trades, things like that social media scrubbing. Yeah,
and there's also a lot of people getting in trouble
as far as organizations, you know, the Jerry Jones scandals
out there. We're gonna have more on the latest on
Deshaun Watson coming up, and then you've all of a
sudden got the Tennessee Titans forget about Dan Snyder competing. Yeah,
(14:43):
but I feel like there's nothing really different about that.
It's every season more. Yeah, well there's Sason. Um. So
the Tennessee Titans all of a sudden find themselves, uh
in a little bit of hot water because um former
Titans head coach Mike Malarkey appear heard on a two
thousand twenty podcast. And if you're wondering why this is
(15:04):
news now, Uh, it's because there was the Ray Horton,
a longtime assistant in the NFL. He joined the Brian
Flores lawsuit along with Steve Wilkes, former Cardinals head coach,
and ray Horton said that he knew for certain that
the sham interview with the Titans back in sixteen when
(15:25):
he was interviewing for the job. He knew it was
a sham all the way through, and that Mike mallarkey
also was aware of it. And so part of the
evidence quote unquote that they used to try and state
his case was this appearance on a podcast called The
Steeler's Realm. So this was the former Titans head coach
Mike mllarkey talking about the hiring process with the Titans
back in I allowed myself at one point than when
(15:48):
I was in Tennessee, to get caught up in something
I regret. I still regret it. But the ownership there.
Amy Adams Trunk and her family came in and told
me I was going to be the head coach in
two thousand sixteen before they went through the Rooney rule.
And so I sat there knowing I was the head
coach and sixteen as they went through this fake hiring process,
(16:12):
knowing by knowing a lot of the coaches that they
were interviewing, knowing how much they prepared to go through
those interviews, knowing that everything they could do and they
had no chance of getting that job. And actually the
GM John Robinson, he was in on the interview with me,
he's he had no idea why he's interviewing me, that
I have the job already. Wow. So there was Mike mclarkey,
(16:33):
the former Titan, said, coach, to hear what you say
is about this? Um? Well, I think my initial responses, um,
I realized there is a minority coach that was satisfying
the Rooney rules. Part of this. I believe that was
Ray Horton. But that doesn't make it racist because there's
a lot of other white coaches who are part of
(16:53):
that interview process as well, and so this speaks to
a greater issue with the hiring process in general in
the NFL. It's something that Pete Carroll touched on in
the owners meetings, is that any private business or institution,
when they identify someone they want to be the next
leader of that organization, whether it's CEO, head coach, whatever
we're talking about. That's more of the issue is they
(17:15):
they've identified the person that they want and they're gonna
go through the process of interviewing everyone else. But in
most cases they don't have an open mind. This isn't
a democracy, you know. They're not going out bringing a
bunch of candidates and have everyone vote on it. They
have someone who they're looking at. They have someone who
they believe would give them the best chance moving forward
to win. Obviously that didn't work out and it being
(17:36):
Mike Mike vrabel now. But that's the problem with this
is as damning as it sounds, that to me is
not speaking necessarily to racism, because every you know, it's
more of the entire process of the hiring process in
the NFL, where they've got a guy identified, and there's
plenty of other candidates too who are part of the
(17:59):
majority who aren't I noorities who are also preparing and
being overlooked as well. And so if you want to
lump this then as part of it, okay, Like I
think the best example in what's come out resurfaced isn't
that it's Steve Wilkes. You know, he to me has
the best case of being a one and done the
way it was handled, everything else that he endured during
(18:22):
his time in Arizona, his case and what he's trying
to point out. And I don't know if he can
prove it because I don't know what evidence he has,
but as far as how was all handled he has,
he has the best case to me. Because the other
thing that we didn't discuss is the Houston, Texas now
of officially become part of this lawsuit, you know, given
(18:42):
the firing of David Cauley and then how they ended
up not bringing on Brian Flores due to the lawsuit.
The only problem is then they hired Levey Smith. So
you know, these are all examples that the attorneys are
doing their best to persuade the media and put public
pressure on the NFL and on these teams. What it
still doesn't speak to, you know, outright racism or examples
(19:05):
of that, you know. And that's the hard part about
the Brian Flores lawsuit, in my opinion, is when they've
come out with these these big claims, like even though
losing in order to you know, get a higher draft
pick so they can maybe get Joe Burrows since that
was discussed right, so far, we haven't seen any evidence
(19:27):
of communication between Steven Ross and Brian Flores that supports
that claim. And all we know is that Brian Flores
sent a memo to the two executives claiming this. If
there's no proof, then how do we know he wasn't
trying to set them up in the first place. That's
set this whole process up. I mean that that's that's
the hard part is there's we just haven't seen any
(19:48):
damning evidence are proven. I don't I don't feel like
this is that. I think the issue here kind of
goes to what you're saying, Q, is that racism can
it can be tangible, but then sometimes it can't be.
It's it's very difficult to measure racism, and that's what
(20:13):
makes it difficult because it's like, Okay, sometimes you can
use hard evidence and say that's racism, makes sense, easy
to say, here's the evidence. In some cases, it's just
not that simple. It's just not that black and white,
so to speak, and and how to how to approach it.
(20:34):
So you wanna hit the button on that. Let me
ask you this because this, this scenario came up. This
scenario came up over this past hiring cycle. Obviously, I
know guys who played turn got into coaching, and you
know other guys who have been coaches, and this scenario
came up. I had a coach reach out and say, hey, um,
I'm gonna tough spot. This is what I'm thinking. I
(20:56):
really don't have many options. I said, well, what do
you mean. You've been coaching for a while now, played
for a while. He goes, well, I'm I'm a coach
in a position group that no coach will hire me
because I'm white and that position group is minority, you know,
mostly minorities. He said, So they want a minority had
coached to be that, And that's what everyone's telling me.
That's what the prerogative is. Whether it's a wide receiver dB, whatever,
(21:18):
we're talking about right, you know, running backs coach, and
he's like, I'm gonna have to go to a different
level or a different part of football in order to
get a job. And you know, so he so he
was kind of calling inquiring about like assistance for that
staff that he was trying to put together. But you know,
I look at that and I go, well, how do
people view that? Yeah, I mean that that's that's legitimate.
(21:38):
A guy who's got credentials, who played in the league,
who's now coached since he got out of the league,
and he can't get a job because of the color
of his skin. He's in the majority, not the minority.
You know, I think it's still I think it's still
goes to the idea because because you gotta understand, racism
is based upon prejudice and discrimination. It's not a color.
(22:02):
You know, people, people who don't get deeper into the
meaning of what racism represents, you look at it as
a black and white issue. Is it is it in reverse?
If if you're in the majority, but you're also in
the situation that you just mentioned, Racism is the scrutiny
(22:25):
and and the discrimination of what it is that that
you want and and and I think that that's ultimately
what it comes down to. One thing that I always
say is show me somebody without prejudice, and I'll show
you someone without education. The more you live, the longer
you live life, the more you're you're educated, and the
(22:48):
more you're educated, the more you form, You form ideas,
you form beliefs, you form understanding of what the world
is around you, and you you naturally create prejudice. And
it doesn't mean that it's always towards a color or
a racial group. It could be towards how much money
(23:11):
you make. It could be towards what type of clothes
you wear, It could be towards how you wear your hair.
There are so many different caddy. There is an endless
amount of categories of of prejudice. And and so when
you look at these type of scenarios, I think the
(23:32):
the validation of or the validity of what this is
all about is really the feelings of those coaches that
are involved. And I think that that's ultimately what it
comes down to. Even in the lawsuit, it will be
more so of the evidence and maybe the credibility the
validity of the people who are presented in the lawsuit.
(23:57):
Versus all of the evidence, like hard tangible evidence, because
it's difficult to measure the level of prejudice or racism
as as the word that is used so so prominently,
it's hard to gauge how much it is. So now
(24:19):
you gotta look at the body of people who are
saying it. There are a lot of coaches at the
at the high school level, there are a lot of
coaches at the college level, there are a lot of
coaches at the pro level, and their narrative is pretty
much the same. I'm not going to get an opportunity
because of the color of my skin. So now it
(24:39):
comes down to in this this this suit, I don't
know is that I don't know how that they're tried
or how they go about doing it. Is it just
a judge, is it is it a jury? I don't
I'm not even sure how that all works. But I
will say it will come down to whoever is hearing
the case. It will ultimately come down to a lot
of those elements versus just presenting hardcore evidence that says
(25:05):
this is the racism, this is where it came from,
and this is why it happened. I think that that
has to be taken in consideration in this type of
situation unless they've got evidence of the Titans owner saying, hey,
you're getting the job because you're white specifically, I don't
see how they can prove this is racism because the
(25:25):
reason he and he ended up getting the job Mike
Malarkey is because they fired Ken wizzen Hunt mid season.
It was Marcus Mariota's rookie year and they they felt
more comfortable with the direction of Marcus Mariota being paired
up with with Mike Malarkey moving forward. So like Doug
Marrone also had an interview with the Titans that off
season that was also a sham. Well, Doug Maron's white.
(25:48):
So I just I don't see how it's applicable, but
to make it again, to make the examples based off
of a white person dealing with with those those circus,
let me fin I'm in the middle of my point.
You hold on one second, blet me just say this.
The lawsuits are claiming that if you read the language
coming out, that's what they're doing. It's not like Jonas
(26:12):
is doing that or I'm doing that. If you read
what they're putting out there is part of the lawsuit,
they are literally saying in there Ray Horton, a coaches minority,
and the end up hiring Mike Malarkey who's white, Like
that's what they're doing. It still comes down to whatever
the experiences are of what that person that is listening
(26:32):
to that trial, what they have experienced, what they've seen,
and how that connects to their education. As being a judge,
the person seeing over that case in particular, we'll dictate
a lot of how it's approached. And that's the bottom line.
If if it happens to be someone who sees it
from the point of view of how you guys are
(26:54):
looking at it, then that's what becomes relevant and prevalent
in how they're approaching that case. If it's someone that
has experienced it in their life, and it couldn't necessarily
be deemed racist because this person didn't get it either
because of one thing or another, and there white, it
(27:14):
doesn't want that doesn't justify it not being Maybe it
doesn't justify being that, but it doesn't necessarily justify it
not being that. And I think that that's ultimately what
it comes down to, because there is no way to
truly measure the levels of what represents what racism represents,
(27:34):
and that's the point of it. I think that that's
that's the point. I think that's a slippery slope then,
like the standard at some point, otherwise people can just say, hey,
I feel like someone acted racist towards me. I'm gonna
sue you. I mean, and if I find the right
judge of the right jury that says, yeah, you know,
I've I've felt that way before too. You know, we
(27:56):
should award this guy a million millions of dollars. But
that's how things work regardless, the same as he Here's
another situation that happened at that time. So Lovey Smith
was the head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They
fired him and they gave Dirt Cutter the job. Similar
circumstance and reasoning behind the firing and the hiring of
(28:19):
Dirt Cutter. They had a young quarterback, same draft class,
Jamis Winston, and they felt more comfortable with Dirt Cutter
directing his career as opposed to Lovey Smith. But we've
never heard once that was a firing done based on race,
And that was a black coach who was fired and
a white coach who got the white people aren't going
to handle things, I understand. But but the idea that
(28:42):
we're going to go back in time to that that
period and say because Mike mclarkey felt guilty about the
hiring process, I just don't know where the evidence, the
hard evidence is. Well, you know that the Titans were
racist when white coaches were interviewed for the same sham interview,
pros says and went through the same process as Tarall
(29:02):
Austin or or or any of these other guys. Ray
Horton that we're also part of the process the entire time.
I just I don't know where. I just some may
say that that's the justification of interviewing a white person.
It doesn't. Again, it now comes down to what your
interpretation of it is. I mean, and that's that's by individual,
right And and again I guess that's that's your opinion,
(29:25):
and we'll see things good. The problem is the arbitration
or how this is gonna work is you know, Brian
Flores has been trying to get the NFL to reject
the Dolphins request for an arbitration hearing, which is within
all the contracts for these head coaches. Right, if there
is a if there's an issue like this, it then
(29:46):
goes to arbitration first, which the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell oversea.
The problem is is a lot of those things that
are set in arbitration don't come to light. And I
think that's part of the reason too why you're hearing
some of this leak its way out, Because the attorneys
for Brian Flores realized that, a he needs more people
backing him, other coaches who feel this way, who are
(30:08):
willing to take that stance, whether it's Ray Horton or
Steve Wilkes or anyone else who would join it. Um.
Which you know, it took a while to get to
this point, but I do think that shows strength with
some of these coaches. You know, maybe there is a
degree of evidence that they were trying to build up
to make more of a case for these guys, whatever
(30:28):
the case is. Um. That's the next steps of it
is whether or not this thing goes into arbitration and
really what comes from that. But that's gonna be the
hard thing for him is is those the conversations had
in arbitration are not gonna come to the light of day.
Who do the arbitrators work for with the NFL and Roger.
It goes to Roger Goodell, but probably why he wants
(30:51):
it to not be an arbitration. I mean, I was
that they're they're trying to put public pressure on the
NFL to not let this go to arbitration rather be
heard in the court of law. That's what they're They're
trying to bypass this particular step because they know it
could be damning to their case or the evidence they're
trying to provide. And so if you put enough public
pressure on the NFL, the NFL is and they'm gonna say, okay,
like let's let's let this be heard in court and
(31:14):
we'll see how someone else you know, stands for this,
and we cannot be a part of this and not
be accused of manipulating the process. Be sure to catch
live editions of Two Pros and a Cup of Joe
with Brady Quinn, LaVar Errington and Jonas Knocks week days
at six am e Stern, three am Pacific. Hey, it's Ben.
Host to the Fifth Hour with Ben Mallory. Would mean
(31:34):
a lot to have you join us on our weekly
auditory journey. You're asking, what in God's name is the
Fifth Hour. I'll tell you it's a spin off of
the Ben Maller Show. Cold Hit Overnights on MS are
Why should you listen? Picture if you will? A world
will we chat with captains of industry in media, sports
and more every week Explorer some amazing facts about human
nature and more. Let's sen to the Fifth Hour with
(31:56):
Ben Mallow or the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast
or wherever you get your podcast. Deebo Samuel, the all
purpose wide receiver for the San Francisco forty nine ers.
He has made a statement he wants a contract, and
in this day and age, how do you go about
wanting a contract? I want to contract. He has scrubbed
his social media of references. That's what kids these days.
(32:22):
I can't stand it. It is such childish behavior. Yet
it happens all the time now. And I just want
to know who's the ahole who started this whole thing.
It wasn't Kyler Murray because it happened well before him.
Was it somebody in the NBA who started to started
with relationships, got and it evolved into businesses and and
(32:42):
other things. But it started with breakups. It's like, I'm
gonna scrub this thing. I'm gonna I'm gonna purge you
from my life. Here's what I hate about it. It
gives more credibility to social media. Agreed, That's what I
hate about totally. Like, I honestly could care less if
(33:05):
that's the tactic for his negotiations. Right, And this is
all born out of the fact that Stefon Diggs got
a new deal. All these wide receivers are getting new
deals after the Davante Adams Tyreek killed deals. Right, Everyone's
trying to cash in because the markets being reset. So
I understand all that. That happens in all industries, right.
(33:27):
You know after the Tony Romo deal that some people,
some people on the show said it was impossible, you've
now seen that part they done. It was let's just
put it this way, okay, um. I heard they were
going to change their name to Joni. This is her
new listeners Taken out of context. By the way, if
(33:49):
Tony Romo gets ten million dollars a year, I'm getting
a sex change. And that was a long time ago.
That was on something like This Morning. Yeah. Well look,
and first of all, wouldn't be Joni, would be Janice.
Al Right, it just sounds better you know, kind of
sounds more at least you declared. But anyway, the point is,
(34:09):
then look at what happens with Fox and Troy Aikman.
He's like, well, Rum was getting paid that, all right,
I've been doing this for a while. I've got three
Super Bowls. Yeah, so he obviously ends up being a
part of that. Kirk cerb Street then not only lops
on what he's doing with ESPN, but he you know,
(34:30):
takes on the responsibilities of Thursday night football now. And
I'm sure with the combination of what he's getting paid,
he's in that ballpark now. So it's not just football.
I mean, this is something that happens in all sorts
of other industry. That's the thing is like, that's the
difference is they go about it probably a different way
(34:52):
than scrubbing social media. But that's what I hate is like,
think about all the people at Meta right, who which
is owns Instagram? Right? Facebook? Meta they changed their name
to you know all that that's a whole another conversation.
But I think about all the people there who when
they see this, it's a good thing for them, high
(35:14):
five and all around. Hey, did you see Deebo Samuel
scrubbed his social media account. It's it's like they always
win in the end because it's only going to create
more attraction to everyone clicking on his page to go yep,
nothing there, and then they work out a deal. Everything
comes back, or you know, they start working on a
new deal. Kyler Murray for example. You know, he never
(35:36):
really had a legit explanation. He just said you old
heads wouldn't understand all his stuffs back up. You know,
which is crazy? You know what I think it is.
Let me tell you, guys, I was thinking about this
one weird thinking about it. But but but here's here's
the pattern of it. The pattern of it comes from
a lot of these guys that are in the league.
(35:58):
Now we're recruited through social media. Their interactions all took
place through social media, so they're there. Well, that explains
a lot. With Shawn Watson. Then, yes, while it may
be a funny punchline, that's the truth. Everything goes through
social media. Now, the interaction goes through social media. You
(36:20):
want to meet somebody, use social media. You want to
break the ice, break the ice through social media. It's like,
if you think about it, the validation comes when a
college reaches out to you. The validation comes when that
that uh anestetician um that becomes a masseus responds to
(36:42):
your your inbox message. Yeah, what do you call it?
Is that? Like? Not an institition? You know what is not?
You stumbled into a new term we need to use
for these esteticians and neition like like flabola, frobolotists or
fob Just let you say that one. What the hell
(37:05):
are you trying to say? People that deal with your blood?
Who are those people? Who are they? Come on? Come on?
We got Lee? What we got little? Some of the
words I just able to say. I mean, you know,
somebody's out there. You can't say any words hematologists? What
is a hematolis? Lobotomist? Is that what it called? The
(37:27):
bottom list? Lee? What is it? It's a phlebotomist, right,
I believe botomust What is pomustotomust? I was gonna say hematologists? Yeah,
I like labar is better to get honest. I think
it's I think it's like the new Hey, these are
estheticians there there, Yeah, yeaheticians, asteticians. Yeah, whatever it is, Yeah,
(37:53):
that's fine. The point is a bung oh, the point
is horrible actually, like, but I will continue to say Anesstetician.
(38:16):
So That'stetician, is it called? That'stetician's Tian. But they become
massus massage therapists through social media, Like I can change
who I want to be, and that is the essence
really of what social media is. I can change who
(38:39):
I am and be what I ultimately want to be.
That's why you have all of these filters. That's why
you have all of these different like little tools that
you can use on I find myself getting I've never
really used a filter. I've never done that. That's just
never been my thing, and I even never felt comfortable
using filters. But I do get creative with how I
(39:02):
use the music on there. When they started putting the
music features on there, I got really excited about that,
you know what I mean, Bert, I got really excited.
Uh what do you mean? Yeah? Tell me you don't
use a filter for your cough And so that ends my,
uh my reasoning on what it plays with social media. Bert,
(39:26):
I don't care if somebody calls me an old guy.
I think it's pathetic. I think people that use these
social media platforms to make a statement have some balls
to understand. Everybody who understands it understands it. First of all,
does anybody think that Deebo Samuel is going to get
a contract extension because he scrubbed his Instagram or his
snap face. He's gonna he's going to create the conversation
(39:49):
right now. The conversation was created a long time ago.
They said, months ago. Business the forty Niners said, months ago,
We've already put aside a certain amount of money for Joe,
for Nick Bosa rather and for Deebo Samuel. Like, okay,
they're they're working in the negotiation. Can I ask this,
(40:12):
Is there any reservation in anyone's mind? Not, I'm not
Deebo Samuel's a good player. He had a great year. Like,
let's not get the two things misconstruedor or twisted. He's
a good player right now who had a great year.
If you go back through his his rookie and second
(40:32):
year in the league, he showed flashes, right, he was
banged up, but even his rookie season he was he
was good. It wasn't like he had the season he
had this past year. And I just look at it,
I'm like, I don't know, man, Like it's one of those.
It's similar to Tyreek Hill. He's in Miami. He's on
a talented roster, at least that group at wide receiver,
(40:56):
and you know, just by looking at it, I know
he had to share touches with Travis Kelsey. But you
know you're also talking about, you know, production with a
quarterback who is year and year out. If you just
the best in the league, that's not where to us
just trying to prove he can be a franchise quarterback,
not even the best quarterback. So there's no way Tyreek
(41:17):
Hill is going to equate to the deal that he
signed in Miami with his production. Like the stats aren't
going to add up all all the box score readers
and the people who use that to justify anything. It's
not gonna add up. The fantasy owners who grab him
on their team, it's not gonna add up. They'll be disappointed.
I was telling you right now. If the forty Niners
move on from Jimmy Garoppolo, which it sounds like they're
(41:39):
going to at some point, he's not gonna be as
much the guy. He's not. I mean, if you look
at how they there, it can use him all they
want but until Trey Lance proves that he can be
that proficient as a pocket passer, I just he's gonna
have a harder time getting his production. I just I
(42:02):
think this is one where they're they'll sign into an extension,
I would think, But I don't know how you feel.
I would not put Debo up there with the track
record of what Davante Adams has done, or Tyreek Hill
has done, or Stefan Digs for that matter. Like, I
just I wouldn't put him up there with that because
his production is based on what he does in the
run game. Tips Well, it's it's partially that, right, Like
(42:26):
we can we can say it's partially that. But you know,
even if you mean his his his pass game production
is pretty ridiculous. He leaved, he led the league in
yards perception. I mean every time he ball on average,
he's getting eighteen yards. So but but I'm just saying,
right now, is that an outlier? Are we ever gonna
see that sort of production from him? But I think
(42:47):
the point is they had to use him in that manner, right,
in that capacity because of injury. Because of injury, Yeah,
And I think you know, ideally they're not gonna want
to go back to bring him as much as they're
not going to run him as life and that and
that goes it. It goes to both of your points.
You're saying it was proficient and running the ball, Brady,
(43:08):
you're saying he was proficient in in yards after the
catch or or what he was going to get when
he caught the ball. Those opportunities that he's going to
get in terms of how versatile he showed he was
and how valuable he was for the forty Niners, was
out of necessity. That was not out of out of
game plan. Is he the main offensive focal point anywhere
(43:30):
else in the league other than San Francisco? Again, it's
it's I don't think he don't need to use him
in the capacity that you did, But but it does
make if a team called San Francisco and said, hey,
we love Deebo Samuel, will give you a you know,
first round pick for it, I think San Francisco would
actually think long and hard about it because I had
the opportunity or the the option of a player that
(43:52):
can show you they can do more than just be
that position. And that's what Deebo Samuel presents. But then
there's the wh on this one. Then there's the wear
and tear on him if you're going to use him
as a running back, like how like how what's the
contract look like? I wonder does he think he's gonna get,
you know, more than Stefon Digs, more than Davante Adams, Like,
I just I don't know that that's where where San
(44:15):
Francisco's mind is at. And they've got what seven million
dollars in cap space, Maybe let me ask you this,
what does he do extraordinarily well? Run the ball, multi faceted,
run the ball like a little bit everything. He's barely
a sub four. He's five ft two pounds, which is
(44:35):
probably more the build of Night. And I'm just saying,
as versatile as he is, as good as he was
last year, I don't know that we're gonna see that
continued production. Whether it's because he's you know, getting that
due to injury or whatever you want to draw to.
Maybe that the lacque or the learning curve for Trey
Lance at that position, no matter what you want to
(44:57):
point to. Everything else, I'm just saying. And if you
look at like Davant Adams, he's a big he's a
bigger wide receiver. He's still grid off the line is that,
but he's a he's a bigger wide receiver, So he's
still no matter what, at the end of his career,
even when he's lost the step, he's gonna have his size,
his hands. His skill set Tyreek Kill is blazing, fast, blazing,
(45:19):
He's always gonna He's always gonna have that until he doesn't.
But you know, it's it's like sometimes those fast guys,
they just stay fast. They're fast forever, still fast today
right now running outside to go get the newspaper coming back.
Dion Sanders went through what he went through, He's probably
still faster than the population right now. So all I'm
(45:41):
saying is is if you look at his skill set
and what he's comprised of, he's a good player. He
had a great season. I don't know if if he
gets this big contract like these other receivers have gotten,
I mean, I think it's it's gonna be tough for
him to equate to what he did last year on
a consistent basis, even in the college Sanhan system. And
(46:02):
it's not hating on it's just it was a unique
scenario where they used them as much as they did
with everything else that they had going on around them.
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