#618 - Shawn Johnson East on DWTS at 17, Olympic Pressure, Why She Retired Young & Life After Gymnastics

Shawn Johnson East joins Bobby to look back on her life as an Olympic gymnast and the pressure that came with competing at the highest level from such a young age. She shares what it was like doing Dancing with the Stars at 17, why Olympic trials felt even harder than the actual Olympics, and how the constant need to win affected her mentally. Shawn also opens up about why she retired young, learning to separate her identity from gymnastics, and what life has looked like after stepping away from the sport that defined so much of her childhood.

Watch The BobbyCast on Netflix!

Follow on Instagram: @TheBobbyCast

Follow on TikTok: @TheBobbyCast

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
I had to act like a professional USA flag bearer basically,
and I also had to balance being a twelve year old.
I'd traveled to twenty some different countries by myself at twelve.
I just knew by the time I was done with
the Olympics that I was just done.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey, everybody today on the Bobbycast, Sean Johnson East. She
has a four time Olympic medalist, gold medalist, one of
the most recognizable names in gymnastics history. We talk about
it all, her doing it, her retiring at sixteen, why
she chose to go on Dancing with the Stars. She
is a best selling author, she is a podcast host,
she's an entrepreneur, she's a mom of three. I just

(00:46):
really like her too. And she did Special Forces on
Fox where she lasted the whole thing and basically won
the show. And she came away with a new mission.
This book right here there you go. It's called The
Courage to Commit and The Radical Power of Sticking with
Something and it comes out June ninth, and so here
she is really somebody that inspires me. One of my

(01:07):
favorite people. Sean Johnson East. Sean, good to see you,
Good to see you. I have a lot of stuff,
because great, and for sure, I want to talk about
the book. But it's just when I look at all
the stuff that you've done, it's just it looks from
the outside like you just win all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
It's probably something I should go to therapy for.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Which part the fact that I have to win, Yeah,
at all costs, which is not good. I got upset.
I was an obsessive kid. I fell in love with gymnastics.
Gymnastics breeds perfectionism. It's just how the sport's wired. Your
entire goal, your whole life is for a perfect ten
and it's subjective. So then you learn how to cater

(01:49):
to people's opinions and what do they prefer. And after gymnastics,
because that was such a childhood defining, you know, sixteen years,
I don't know how to transfer that into every dale,
like everyday life was.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
They're a parent that knew gymnastics had. So how do
you get and what age? Was it one of those
if you start really young.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I started when I was three, But I only
started when I was three because it's like putting kid
in swim lessons. There aren't many things you can do
for kids at that young of an age and gymnastics
lessons are just one of them. I fell in love
with the idea that I could fly. I was an
adrenaline junkie. My dad was in extreme sports, like professional writer,

(02:29):
so I get the adrenaline side from him and just
fell in love with flying.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I didn't know that about your dad. What did he do?

Speaker 3 (02:36):
He raced everything.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
He raced anything and everything with wheels, so motocross, three wheelers,
four wheelers, sprint cars, all of it.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Wow. Yeah, did you ever do that with him? Did
you ever ride? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
I yeah, which is crazy. I got my first motorcycle
when I was six. I never raced like my dad did,
especially growing up in de boinne Iowa. I was so
obsessed with gymnastics that it just wasn't something that I did.
But I would ride with him a lot. He picked
me up from practice every day of my life on
his motorcycles and is part of her life.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Was he hyper competitive?

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh? Yeah, he was on top of X games. He
was a hockey player and a wrestler, very like competitively.
My mom did everything as well through school, but my
dad is very very competitive.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Was your mom an athlete?

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:30):
She probably wouldn't call herself an athlete, but she did everything.
She ran, she did gymnastics, she danced, she played soccer.
She athlete like sports were always a part of her life.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
I was like, my wife, she's such a great athlete,
but she wouldn't call herself an athlete because she did it.
Yeah until high school and then she was like I'm good. Yeah,
but she could pick up any ball. She can run amazing,
like it's she. When I first met her, we were
playing catch with the football and I was kind of
surprised at how hard she could throw it. And then
she could throw it forty five yards in the year
on a spiral, which is awesome. Was just significant. So

(04:01):
we just had a baby, and I just I selfishly
pray that my daughter gets like her athletic genetics, her intelligence.
The only thing she needs for me is like her
partner picking. Yeah like that as long as she gets
that for me, Like we're good.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Hey, I don't put yourself down. You're extraordinarily talented.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
If someone were to say that to you, would you
be offended?

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah? I would be like no, no, because.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I always feel weird. And that was a compliment, and
thank you, But I spent I have two therapists. I
have a couple. I got one on myself and I
have one to my wife and I go to and
I struggle when people say I'm talented, because I go,
you don't know how hard I've worked, and I automatically
do the negative thing when I shouldn't. It is unfair,
and I know you had great intentions by saying that,
but I think you'll also understand where I'm coming from.

(04:49):
Is to where when someone goes, man, you're talented, I
just want to go, no, you have no idea how
freaking hard I've had to grind just to get here.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Did you know how many people don't know how to
work hard?

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah? I have learned that the more that I've had
to manage people. I just thought you everybody worked hard
as a kid, because I had to work really hard.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
And everybody does.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
But there's like a different level that people can unlock
of grind that you have unlocked, and that's abnormal.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
I feel though if I'd have been more naturally talented,
I wouldn't have had to work as hard.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
M I don't think so, because then I think you
just channel it into a different level of like.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Your bar changes, right.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Possibly I don't feel like I've ever been naturally good
at anything. But I say that that's unfair to say because.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
I don't think any of the greats ever are.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
I mean that because I've coached gymnastics, I mean years ago,
where I would see naturally gifted gymnasts come through like
the program and it's easy for them. They can learn
so easy, but then that's not fun for them. There's
no challenge, so then they go find something that they're
not as naturally gifted that and that they fall in
love with because they're like, oh, I want to beat this.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I love the process. Yeah, but I also love winning.
But more than winning, I hate losing. Oh yeah, I
mean that's really it. It's I hate losing. I have
such an inferiority complex where I think everybody judges me
and thinks I'm really garbage that if I lose that
it's humiliating. If I win, okay, cool, I had to win,

(06:30):
and I just want to get to the next opportunity
to win. But if I lose, like it eats me up.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
And why do you feel like people think you're garbage?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I just always have I mean it's definitely early young trauma. Yeah,
just growing up how I grew up.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
And anything in winning helps you not feel like that.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Winning helps me not feel like that for a minute
until I'm no longer being celebrated as a winner, and
then I'm back to that. But I'm also grateful for
that in a way because that has allowed me to
get places obviously, Like that's my competitive nerve. Is like
I think everybody thinks I'm garbage, and I've got to
prove them wrong all the time. That's how I live.
That's a baseline. It sucks, right, it sucks. What is

(07:08):
your baseline?

Speaker 3 (07:10):
First? I have to ask you a questions.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
I'm curious. Did that change it all after you had
your daughter.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
I've only had a daughter for seven weeks.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Congratulations. Oh my gosh, are you alive? Are you sleeping?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
It's so constant, you know it is. I do sleep.
I'm lucky that my job hours are so weird that
I can go to sleep early and wake up at
three or four, which is like, which is normal. And
we kind of straddle the baby hours a lot of times,
where my wife can go to bed later and wake
up later, and so because neither one of us are
really having to do an abnormal schedule. It's I think

(07:45):
it's a little easier for us because my schedule sucks.
But I'm exhausted because it's so constant.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
There's no time off.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
No, you can't just with the dogs, you know what,
put them in the room for an hour we come back.
Can't do that with the baby. Oh yeah, so I'm tired,
but it's more of a go on along road trip
tired where you don't only know why you're tired, but
then you realize you've spent the last nine hour super focused.
Even if it's not you're conscious of it, you're just
always in it. My wife's it's awesome to see her

(08:16):
be a mom and love being a mom.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah. So my daughter hasn't taught me that yet.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
She will, and she will because you'll have to teach her.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm gonna go on a tangent, but like my baseline
is exactly what you said. I I am always trying
to prove something to someone and I don't know why
I have. I had phenomenal parents. I don't have any
trauma as a child. I was very lucky. I was
raised by coaches who were phenomenal, Like I truly was
very very gift like gifted.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
And lucky in that sense.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
But I always felt like I needed the world to
respect me.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
And I don't know where that came from.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
You don't know where the disrespect that's and was inherently
and you came from.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
No, I don't like I was always an insecure kid,
maybe just like shy, and I always, you know, wanted
to prove that I was worthy enough to be in
someone's friend group or whatever it was.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
I don't know where it came from. Need more therapy
to figure that out. But I'm always trying to prove
myself that I'm capable. And I think it's like the
imposter syndrome. So I think my baseline is always like
I'm actually not good at anything, and now I need
to prove to people that I actually am, which is
very odd.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
But that sounds crazy when people from ten thousand feet up. Yeah,
I understand what you're saying, But if I were just
somebody hearing you say this, I would go, there's no
way she really feels that way, because look at all
the things she's accomplished, Like it's counter intuitive, yeah, in
so many.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Ways, but if you look at like if we went
down a list and looked at anything that I did,
I'd be like, oh yeah, I mean they just gave
that to me because I won the Olympic medal, or
that wasn't me, that was someone else, or that was
like the team that made that happen, or whatever it is.
I'll have an excuse for everything. But kids changed it
in me so much, and it's a reminder, like I
revert back a lot, but my children now have gotten

(10:11):
to ages where they'll make a mistake, they'll do something silly.
They'll you know, they've started little sports and they'll lose,
and they'll be like, oh, do you still love me?
You know, they'll ask something so so earth shattering to themselves,
and it's so easy to answer them and be like,
this has nothing to do with your value, Like I

(10:31):
love you no matter what, like you are, you are
infinitely like perfectly mate. You don't have to prove that
to any one. You'll have to prove that to me.
And it's like as you teach your children that, you're like, oh, wow, Like,
what's my problem? Why do I feel like nobody loves me?

Speaker 2 (10:47):
In therapy yesterday, my wife and I were in and
our therapist told us what you're saying is that your
kids are going to teach you and make you face
so many things. Oh yeah, that maybe you haven't face
shit about yourself. Not that you've avoided. You just didn't
know that there'd be this cross row. So what you're
saying was actually kind of told to us. And I

(11:07):
think when he tells us stuff, he mostly's telling me stuff,
but he just doesn't want to say make us both
feel like we're hearing it.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Oh yeah, I have.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
A girl and then two boys, and my husband and
I have gone through so many rounds of this of
something so small will come up and will present itself
with my daughter and I'll be like, wow, that really
really bothered me, and my husband will be like, why
did you snap that way? And then it'll come back
to a moment on the playground when I was ten
years old, and I'm like, I don't want her to

(11:36):
ever have to feel that, So I'm going to like
emphasize it now.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
And it's crazy what children.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Do to you. Do they do gymnastics, No, any of
the three.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
No, they don't care too they have I've I'm friends
with an owner out here of a gym so we
go and play a lot, and they've done like little,
tiny classes and no one has an interest.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
I will say asterisk. My daughter just asked last.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Night to go back to gymnastics, which I was like,
why why.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's part of the reason why maybe because if she
getting old enough to understand that you did it.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, she Yeah, she's understanding a lot more, and her
friends are talking about it more. And she's fall in
love with the monkey bars, like monkey bars are her
favorite thing in the whole entire world, and rock climbing,
and so I think she. I don't know, but gymnastics
terrifies me for any of my children to do, because
I don't think they will ever be given a fair
chance in gymnastics.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
It would be impossible for them to get a fair
chance with the last name, with their parents' last name, people.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Would just expect them to be good, and that's not
fair for a kid.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Do you deal with that at All? Of your kids
are going to have a pretty fortunate life that you
didn't have, And how do you deal with that?

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Oh? I don't know what to do with it.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
I was raised in Des Moines, Iowa, as blue collar.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
As you could possibly imagine.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
My parents sacrificed everything in their life to make it
seem like I like, we weren't struggling in any way.
They did everything. They had, multiple jobs, multiple mortgages, they
were they did so much, and I just the stark
contrast of lifestyles is comical, and I don't know what

(13:16):
to do with it.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
With my children, I feel, fairly or unfairly like the
best parts of me are the parts that came from
how I grew up, and so it confuses me about
raising a kid because like the parts that I'm most
proud of were the struggle and the tenacity, and so
like it, I'm starting to have these uncomfortable feelings of

(13:38):
I don't know, it's a whole new world because I
don't know that I barely know this world for me. Yeah,
like I didn't get rich soil recently, and it's weird.
And then to have a kid now to put into this,
and I just don't want them to be like a
rich jerk.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Oh, I agree.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
I mean, I read books, we do all these things
trying to like figure it out, but I have no
idea how they're going to turn out. I hope they're
good people, and I hope they're kind. But I worked,
you know, as hard as I could my whole life
to find success and to make money and to you know,

(14:13):
help my parents and like do all these things and
give my kids the best life they can possibly have.
But it's so funny to say that, because I had
the best life with none of that. So I'm like,
why do my kids need more than that? And it's comical.
Now my kids go to a private school that's nicer
than freaking Hogwarts.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
I mean it's I've never seen schools like this before,
and I don't know what to do with it. They
think this is normal.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
I know that's the crazy part because it's as like
granular in our house. Now again, I got a seven
week old and my wife just consumes like parenting science books, yeah,
more than opinion books, because everybody's situation is different. She
loves like the science of babies and she's a ferocious

(14:59):
reader anyway, and she'll she'll talk about these different theories
from doctors. And you know, if a baby cries at
this age, some doctors say, you know, give them three minutes,
five minutes, oh yeah, and I'm like, give them a leven.
She needs to learn that things don't come easy. We
need to start giving her. There's some difficulty coming lost.
So like that that's where we are now. And I

(15:21):
do think about that a lot, and then I anything
though that I think about, like far in the future.
I didn't realize I don't really have time to do
this right now because I got do something else with
a baby right now. Like it eliminates a lot of
like the long thinking whenever. She's got acid reflex right
now and you got to deal with it, write this
second that that parts it's hard. They can't communicate. Yeah,

(15:43):
she call a not call ay so much as because
we can identify it. It is acid reflex and it
is it like burns her. So she's asleep and I'm
like and then she's just miserable. That part sucks. Yeah,
but then a little bit of me like, yeah, that's
live baby.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
But yeah, seven weeks old. There's so much now that
we have three, which is like insane. I don't know
how I have three children. There's no time. There's no time.
It's like I will never have enough time with any
of my solo children, if that makes sense, Like I'll
constantly be trying to make up for time with each

(16:20):
of them, and huge life lessons will present themselves at
you know, the minute before you're putting them down for bed.
Our kids will say something like an existential crisis of
some kind and you're like, oh my gosh, how do
I teach you about this in the next thirty seconds?

Speaker 3 (16:35):
But you actually have to go to bed. And the
baby started.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Crying, and then my four year old is getting out
of his room and he just let himself out of
the house and it's like, had like what Sometimes I
lose my mic. It's like, I don't know how to
do this, but maybe it is just survival of the
fittest of like they're gonna be fine, but the amount
of times I think about they'll be in therapy for
that someday and I'll cause it.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
But I was thinking about my baby in therapy too.
It's funny you said that. I think regardless of what
we do, like there's not enough time and capacity to
do everything right, so things are just naturally gonna not
be fulfilled filled. Yeah, and so yeah, I'll go to
therapy for whatever we whatever cups we weren't able to

(17:17):
fill with our limited amount of water.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
So yeah, it's weird to even have thoughts about something else.
I've just I didn't get married. I was almost forty.
It was such a selfish life, not selfish of just
keeping it for myself, but it was only me and
that you start to develop. When I got married, it
was crazy. We have a baby. It's it's like leveled
up and just I used to not come home. I
would just work all day and then come over here

(17:39):
with shoot this. Now it's like I find myself going
home purposefully because I know that, like I'm needed and
I just want to make the gesture and just give
my wife a minute. I think it's made me selfless.
I think that's so a little more selfless. Having babies
done that, And it.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Will get more and more.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
I mean I used to think after our first kid
that it would get easier as she got older, to
like have more time away from home and to leave
and to go on trips or work trips or whatever.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
And it gets harder.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
You fall so much more in love with those little
freakin nuggets.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
My husband and I used to travel all the time.
We love traveling and we still do, but we are psychotic.
We took three kids under the age of five to Tokyo,
Singapore and Dubai last year for a month and a
half because we couldn't fathom the idea of being.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Without them, and I'm like, what has happened?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
It's it is crazy and trying to balance the two
different worlds of both My husband and I love to work,
we love our passion, we love our work, but yet
I'm torn because I want to be home trying to
be the best at both of those anymore so it's exhausting.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
What is your earliest gymnastics memory? Because I remember nothing
at three? You mentioned five year olds going to Japan.
I think they'll remember, you know, if your oldest will
remember that? Probably? Yeah? What do you remember your first memory?
And matics at all?

Speaker 3 (19:02):
I remember, I remember the trampoline.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
How old were you think you were a.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Four or five?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Five?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Probably the trampoline one of those little ones, were one
of those big.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Ones, like a big one?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
And do you compete at five years old in gymnastics?
Do they have you do it competing? Yet?

Speaker 1 (19:21):
I technically started competing at six, But to say it's
like a competition is kind of comical. It's like you
go to the gym and you have a parent clapping
for you. I mean you get a ribbon. You know,
it's nothing like serious.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
When do they realize that kids have potential enough to
invest in them for something like the Olympics.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I think it's all kind of bs.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well, what okay, what A said? And then you tell
me what you think is the truth?

Speaker 3 (19:52):
What said is?

Speaker 1 (19:52):
I can tell you from day one, like I I
can tell you the day a kid walks into a
if they're talented or not, like if they're naturally gifted
in the sport.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
But that has nothing to do with the Olympics. The
Olympics is.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's playing craps in Vegas. I mean, stars have to align.
You have to be talented enough to have the skill set,
driven enough to stay in it long enough, lucky enough
to not get hurt, burnt out. You know, it's a

(20:33):
subjective sport, so you have to be selected, you don't qualify,
and then there's four girls on the team now, so
it's everybody tries to sell this like process of if
you follow these this protocol you can make it to
the Olympics, and it's just a load of crap.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
I've often felt, at least in this world, that you
have to be all those things have to happen, and
you have to be insane enough to you can do
it for sure, because not everybody. It's such a pipe dream,
it's not a reality. No. Where you come from an Iola,
where I come from an Arkansas, people didn't do stuff
no just like this. They didn't do stuff like this.
So you have to be insane to actually believe in that.

(21:15):
And with me, there is a juxtaposition of such confidence
and such lack of confidence at the same time, because
there's got to be such a lack to be so
insecure to prove and at the same time be so
confident that I know that if I just work hard,
I can do it and be better than everybody. It is.
It is bizarre.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
I one of my favorite memories and most confusing memories
is I won World Championships for the first time at fifteen,
and World Championships for gymnastics is technically a little bit
more competitive than the Olympics. In the Olympics, you have
to qualify as a country, so you have to have
enough athletes in a country to qualify to compete. At
World Championships. You can qualify solo, so you can technically

(21:55):
have better competitors on individual apparatuses, if that makes sense.
I won World Championships and I was standing on the
podium with the gold medal, and my teammate who was
like my idol. She was five years older than me,
she had just won the World Championships the year before,
was standing in the second position. Was it Alicia sacrimony?
She's like one of my big sisters. I remember feeling

(22:18):
so guilty and like something was so wrong. I was like,
there is no chance I should be here. You got
it wrong, the scores are off. She needs to be here,
not me. I don't know how I'm here. And I
felt like I literally felt like I wanted to crawl
inside myself and say I think I just.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Stole the medal from you. And everyone was like, no,
you're that was fair.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
You won.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
I was like, there's no chance.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our
SPONSOROW and.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
We're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Would your heart elevate before a competition? Oh yeah, okay,
so you would don't get nervous?

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Oh yeah I would.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
I mean I always some athlete friends are psychotic and
they don't and like they're broken in Yeah, I know,
it's like they're broken in like the exact right way
for what they're doing. Yeah, like they didn't train themselves
to not be broken in this way. They just don't
like that doesn't affect them.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
I could compartmentalize it enough to say, to like almost
turn off emotion long enough just to do the routine,
and then if I like landed off the beam, then
all of a sudden, it would just come flooding back in.
Like I could kind of numb myself for a second.
But there were certain events where I needed to have
my heart rate at two hundred and some events where

(23:38):
I needed it to be just like calm and study,
so I could kind of like I could toggle that
on my own intentionally.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
What is the most pressure you've ever felt before a
single performance?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Olympic Trials?

Speaker 2 (23:50):
The trials more than the Olympics.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Oh, five million times more nerve wracking. Why Because it's
the last thing between you and your Olympics.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
And that's the goal.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
If you make it past Olympic Trials to the Olympics,
you're an Olympian, whether you have a medal or not.
My dream was to go to the Olympics. I would
still get the apparel I would still get the Olympic
rings jacket. I would get the ring whatever, no matter what.
But if you bomb Olympic trials and you don't even
get to go, it was I wanted. I just I

(24:21):
want to vomit thinking about it. It was the worst feeling
in the world.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, you described there, and this can be a later
part of this conversation is how I felt before I
had to dance on Dancing with the Stars. I want
to vomit over on my feet because I knew I
don't get super nervous for things I've done a lot
of times. I can walk down if I have to
do stand up, I have to do television, I have
to do nothing. I've done it so many times. It's
not that I'm good at it. I've done it so

(24:46):
many times and done it bad that I know I
can repair myself and go good. Right, you get it
that show, I wanted to vomit every time.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
It makes me feel better. I was the same way. Wait,
but it's way worse than gymnastics.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
I just can't accept that. Because you have an under standing,
at least physiologically, of how to move your body and
what foot goes with you. The coordination all of that.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
No, if you were to, if I we had long
enough time for me to explain my upbringing and stuff.
I was so cripplingly shy. Gymnastics was rigid and robotic
enough for me to like.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Perform.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
But if you asked me to like show emotion or
be vulnerable, or like dance even today, you can't.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
You will never.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Find me on a wedding dance floor. That is like
my living hell. Why I don't know.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
I just get so embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Did you do high school dances at all? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (25:38):
And I would stand in the corner and basically like cry,
I don't know, I it's just not my thing. My
husband has brought out more of that in me, Like
I've allowed myself to feel more free, But it's just
this feeling of everyone's staring, everyone's judging I whatever, and
so on. Dancing with the Stars my second day of practice,
I was sixteen at this time. I locked myself in

(26:01):
the bathroom stall and like cried and called my mom
and said, I want to quit.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
I want to go home.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Okay, So yours is not so much about the physical part.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
No, the physical part was nothing for oh mine.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
It was all physical yeah, and I don't care if
people watch me.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Oh no, I can't.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, I mean it is the exact Yeah, I'll switch you. Yeah.
So for me, it was all physical.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Oh no, I wanted my like my face was going
to explode on that show.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
I was just like, I can't do this.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
You're only sixteen. When did the show?

Speaker 3 (26:30):
I was sixteen?

Speaker 2 (26:30):
The first? Was it fresh off the Olympics? Yeah, so
you hit you won? Yeah, and then they call you
and go, come do the show.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
I finished the Olympics in August? And did I think
the season I did was starting in January?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Our Star they used to do two seasons. That makes
sense because our started in September and ends of November. Yeah, yeah,
or August.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
The second one I did was the later All Stars. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Do you win that one too?

Speaker 3 (26:55):
No?

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Are you mad? Are you mad you didn't win that one? Yes?

Speaker 3 (27:00):
I can't win the second.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
No way, that's even worse. I've read the study on
Olympians that finished second versus finish third, and I think
just generally that represents anything but the people that finished
second or more piss than third because second was so
close to winning.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
I will put an asterisk by this for you so
second on Dancing with the Stars. I feel bitter about
it because I did the best I could, Like I
truly I felt like my partner was Derek. I felt
like he deserved to win that season. That was his
last season. He ended up coming back to be like
a judge and whatever, but that was his goodbye season,

(27:40):
and he said it was like his last season.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
He was retiring, and.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
He poured his heart and soul into that season, like
his choreography, his creative mastery like I have never seen.
I'd never seen that before, the amount of effort, and
so when he got second, I didn't really care as much,
but I really cared for him, So the second didn't
bother me. It bothered me for him.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
He deserved it.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
At the Olympics, I won three silvers and a gold.
And this is just how my brain worked in my sport.
I knew my sport inside and out. I knew like
what I was capable of, I knew what other people
were capable of. My silver medal in the all around
was my favorite medal that I won. I could not

(28:27):
have done any better. My gold medal was not my
best performance, so I almost value the silver more. It's
still as hard, like when you get silver, you're like, oh,
I was so close, But knowing how the performances went
weights those medals for me differently, because after the silver,

(28:51):
every single person responded, They're like, what could you have
done better? How does it feel to lose? And I
was like, I don't think you understand, like that was?
That was perfect for me? It was my perfect performance.
I wouldn't change anything. I would love to have had
the gold medal, but that's up to the judges. I
can't control that.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
The gold.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
It was almost comical because every single person the second after.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
I got the gold, they're like, that was perfect. It's
most beautiful routine I've ever seen. And I was like, no,
it wasn't. Go watch the five other ones that I
did the competitions prior. They were better. You're just saying
that because the judges think it is.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Do you think had you not won the gold, though,
you wouldn't love the silvers as much if there were
no golds, because you do have a goal. So now
you're a gold medalist. Yeah, without that gold, regardless of
what it's in, do you think the silvers maybe you
would have wished a lot?

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Maybe very hypothetical because I don't know. I won three
silvers back to back, so kind of by the time
that I got to the very last competition, I really
didn't care. I was also raised by my coach. I
started with my coach when I was three, so I
was with him my whole life. He never valued medals
and he never valued scores ever, could could have cared

(30:03):
less about them. For him, it was always effort, and
so I kind of just had this wiring in my
brain of subjective scoring sucks and you can't control it,
but I can control how well I do in a day.
And so we always had this ritual after our competition
of like, how do you feel you did? And if
I could answer honestly and be like it wasn't my

(30:25):
best or it was my best, that was like the
greatest celebration I could ever get out of my coach.
So when I got the golds, all I remember is
me and my coach laughing, probably out of like we
were just completely exhausted. We were looney tunes by then,
But I remember him saying, how do you feel you did?

(30:46):
Almost like laughing at the question, and I was like,
not my best, and He's like I know, and then
we looked at the scoreboard and there's number one by
my name and we were like, well, we got the gold,
you know. So it was just kind of this comedic
experience of that's finally when I got everyone's validation from
the world. But I was like, you're validating me only

(31:06):
because someone subjectively said, yeah, that's the best she's ever done.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
When I can tell you right now, it wasn't. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
It was just odd that coach started with you when
you were young.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, really young.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
So were you in like a gymnastics hub in Iowa.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
No, No, it was again it was luck. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
I started at a gym when I was three. It
was like the only gymnastics gym in Des Moines. My
parents moved me to my coaches because he had just
opened this gym and it saved them gas money.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
What do you mean your coaches to the gym a
different city or what.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
No, just my coach moved to the United States to
the University of Iowa to learn English and exchange for
coaching their gymnastics team.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
A few years later, he's like.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I want to go open my own gym, and he
chose Des Moines, Iowa, which happened to be like wow,
down the road from my house. My parents moved me
at five to his gym because it saved them gas money,
not because he wasn't anybody you know back then and
I was just with him. But my parents never would
have thought like my parents were the opposite of stage parents.

(32:17):
If anybody at any point in my career was like
she needs to move to Texas, they would have been like,
we're going to go play soccer.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Then this isn't an option.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Did they ever try to slow you down? Did they
think you were working too hard?

Speaker 3 (32:28):
All the time?

Speaker 1 (32:29):
They would beg me to quit. My mom every Saturday
would be like you want to go shopping? Like, let's
just go shopping, Let's go to dairy queen. And I'm like, no,
I want to go to practice.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
She's like, are you sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
They desperately tried, not in like a bad way, but
they they wanted me to be normal.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Sounds like their desire was for you not to overwhelm
yourself with things that were abnormal and wanted you to
be a normal kid. And yeah, were you a normal kid?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
M in what capasses?

Speaker 5 (32:57):
In what way?

Speaker 1 (32:58):
No?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I don't know, there's a normal kid, right, But did
you do prom? Yeah? Did you did you go to school?

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Did you graduate high school?

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:08):
I went to normal public school, went to all the dances,
went all the I was the ballgirl for the football team,
did extracurricular activities. I ran track, I you know, did
all of it. Yes, So I didn't technically graduate from school.
I had to like tutor my last year because of
the Olympics.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
But oh, that little thing, that little thing, Yeah, okay,
that sounds like a normal childhood, considering you're a multi
medalist Olympian, because I would think just unfairly that to
get to your position, it would have to be extremely abnormal,
like a child actor.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Even Yeah, I that's also just like the luck of
my upbringing and why I was so so lucky. My
coach moved from China, and in China, he was very
used to a where they were taken from their family
at a very young age. They were put into an institution.
They would train sixty hours a week, like he didn't

(34:08):
have a childhood, and his dream was to come to
the United States to open a gym and to raise
Olympians who won medals, but who were also as he
would word it, children in the sense of they had
a normal life. They went to school, they went to prom.
We didn't train a lot of hours. The average US

(34:29):
gymnasts back in my day would train forty fifty hours
a week and they would homeschool and do you know
they would spend like actors. I trained twenty and I
never went over that. He wanted us to be kids,
and he celebrated the fact that we had to have
good grades to come to school or to come to practice.
You had to go to public school, you couldn't leave early.

(34:52):
He wanted us to be kids. But I think that
was beneficial.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
It almost feels like when coaches now, I'll say they
want kids to play multiple sports because it there is
the age of specialization, for sure, but now you're seeing
that pendulum swing a little the other way because they're going, hey,
you're gonna need these other if you want to be
an athlete, Yeah, you're going to need these other skills
as well. Yeah, it feels like that's the life version
of what that is.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Well, and especially for kids. Kids don't need jobs yet,
they just need to have fun.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Did you ever have a job as a kid, You
probably couldn't write.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
No.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, I mean I technically, did.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
You ever like teach gymnastics as a kid to other kids?

Speaker 3 (35:30):
No?

Speaker 2 (35:30):
No, no, no, oh no, none of that.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
No, I mean, well kind of I started.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, I started teaching when I was sixteen, technically like
when I retired, which is crazy. But I made the
USA national team at twelve, so that was like a
contractually paying job.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
You're right, so you got paid at twelve thirteen years old?
You made the team at twelve years old?

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Were you the youngest on that team? No?

Speaker 3 (35:58):
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, did it just so happen that you're small? Yes?

Speaker 1 (36:05):
I was on the smaller size of the team. But
gymnasts tend to be smaller, not because it stunts your growth,
but because it's just kind of like it's like weeding
out the four foot eleven people out of the NBA.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah. But I'm saying, had you been taller, and who
knows how old you're, how tall you're going to be
at three, at four or five, had you been taller,
do you think you wouldn't have made it? Yeah? For sure,
three inches taller.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Fine, But I mean there aren't many gymnasts over like five.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Five anybody else in your family. I'll tall you four eleven.
Anybody else in your family around that height?

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yeah, all of us?

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Oh really, so you're not abnormal in your family?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
No, I mean my parents are both short. My grandparents were,
like my mother's side were all six footers. My dad's
side are all short.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I have some coaches in my family. Yeah, and some
of them that are very successful in the collegiate ranks,
and they talk about recruiting kids and how one of
the common practices is that if they're recruiting a kid
or talking to a kid who's let's say thirteen, fourteen
years old, obviously that kid hasn't fully developed yet, but
they look at their parents. Yeah, and that's the representation

(37:35):
of really what that kid's probably going to grow into.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
So there are ways to get around this, if it
hear me out for a second. But like in the Olympics,
Olympic gymnastics, all of the equipment, so bars being floored,
they're set and they're fixed. You can't move them, change them,
raise them, lower them. You can't move the bars farther apart,

(37:58):
closer together, raise them higher, off the ground or lower
to the ground. Everybody has to compete on the same
exact equipment. If you are over five', five your feet are.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Going to touch the.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Ground it makes it, really really difficult to do. Gymnastics
in collegiate, gymnastics you can change. Anything you can raise the.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Bar as wide.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Hand, yes so that, naturally if you're going towards Like olympic,
gymnastics weeds a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Out so you can be really good in college because
you've were able to move. Things but, yes you can't
be An olympian because you're too.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Tall it's.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Harder, YEAH i will, say just like natural physics of it,
though a five to six girl flipping her body around
versus a four to eleven is just more. Difficult so
it it's kind of like.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
JOCKEYS i was literally thinking of jockeys just.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Now your natural makeup makes you probably naturally more qualified
for some things versus. Together i'm never going to play
in THE wn, Ever but gymnastics worked out.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Great it's crazy how it just so happened that coach
moved to. THAT i know the Book, outliers you, know
especially when they're. Talking, yeah it's like things that not.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
Just.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Happened but because the environment is exactly, right it allows
people that are exactly right to thrive in that.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Scenario and that's Where i'm, saying like stars have to.
Align there's a rule at The olympics now where you
have to be sixteen the year of The olympics in
order to. Compete it's like a child labor protection law
that went to affect five cycles. AGO i don't, know
BUT i just so happened to turn sixteen the year
of My. OLYMPICS i, mean HAD i not been sixteen that,

(39:49):
YEAR i would have had to have wait for more
years IF I i, mean it's just like so many
things have to. Align not to SAY i wasn't good at.
GYMNASTICS i was good at, gymnastics but everything else had
to like line up.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Perfectly after That, olympics did you? Retire?

Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah WHY i was.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
TIRED i started competing professionally at, twelve and SO i
was DOING i was then trying to balance the scales
as a twelve year old between my love for gymnastics
and now it was a. Job WHENEVER i would have
to go work for THE usa national, team it was
a JOB i had.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
To act like a.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
PROFESSIONAL usa you, know flag bearer. Basically AND i also
had to balance being a twelve year. Old i'd traveled
to twenty some different countries by myself at, twelve AND
i got homesick and, LIKE i just knew by the
TIME i was done with The olympics THAT i was just.
DONE i couldn't see myself doing four more.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
YEARS i was just. TIRED i wanted to go be a.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Kid so then what do you? Do most peoplehen they were, tired,
THEY i don't, know play. Golf that's a. Scene you
have to start.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
OVER i MEAN i had to literally start.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Over but was it hard to start over because you
had some? Fame now you're a famous gymnast and you're a, Teenager,
like that's. Weird, yeah it's, awesome but it's. Weird it's really.
Weird so how do you come back to home and it.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
BE i, mean clinical. Depression it was really.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Difficult what was difficult about, IT i was.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Still a child that fell in love with.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Gymnastics in my, mind the math equation that made sense
WAS i was going to go to The. OLYMPICS i
was going to, COMPETE i was going to finish. THAT
i KNEW i was going to. RETIRE i was going
to go back to high, school finish high. SCHOOL i
wanted to go To Stanford. UNIVERSITY i wanted to be
an orthpedic, surgeon and that was what life was going
to be Like LIKE i had my life planned out
The olympics, finished had no idea fame would be a

(41:44):
part of. THAT i didn't KNOW i was going to
be a household name for a. While like that never
played a factor in my. Mind came back to high.
SCHOOL i was too much of a. DISTRACTION i had
to leave the high, school which was very odd because
now you all these kids who were my friends now
THINKING i was such a big, deal which didn't make

(42:06):
sense to. ME i couldn't finish high. SCHOOL i had
to go to tutor and kind of. Isolation THEN i
got sent on this whirlwind of just the aftermath of The,
olympics OF tv shows and dancing with the, stars and
then college.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Got further and further and further.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Away and it just it snowballed into something THAT i
had never. Envisioned AND i felt very out of. Control
i'm a very type a, person AND i felt very
out of control of my own, life AND i didn't
know where it was going and not knowing where it
was going really stressed me. Out so, YEAH i struggled
for a.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
While how long until you got your bearings?

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Back about two? Years and THEN i went back to
gymnastics BECAUSE i didn't know what else to.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Do when you went, back what does that?

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Mean the last TIME i felt LIKE i was, happy
in control and had respect from. People in my, mind
this is what made sense was in. Gymnastics SO i
went back thinking it would fix my. Problems went back
into gymnastics for two, years got kind of like my
sanity back to a certain. EXTENT i could control my.
Variables you were competing, Again, yeah AND i hated. IT

(43:15):
i hated the whole. Thing it was, INTERESTING i don't.
KNOW i liked the rigidity of.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
IT i liked the.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Routine it made. Sense but at the end of the,
DAY i was not. Happy and SO i got all
the way back to the year of The London olympics
and retired.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
And just, SAID i can't do this. ANYMORE i DON'T.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
I legitimately the year of The, OLYMPICS i was in
my head the worst case scenario was me making the. Team,
wow BECAUSE i just didn't want to do. IT i
didn't want to go. THERE i didn't want to be
a part of that. ANYMORE i just didn't love, it
and SO i ended up retiring And Diana katz called
me the DAY i retired and, said, actually is great

(44:01):
that you're not competing because you can come on this.
Season and for, ME i was reliving everything from the first,
time BUT i felt. HEALTHIER i don't, know it took
a long. TIME i would SAY i retired the first
time at, sixteen seven years BEFORE i felt LIKE i

(44:23):
was truly.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Healthy.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Again why did you say yes To dancing with The stars.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
WHEN i was? Sixteen on the, SHOW i was coming
out of. GYMNASTICS a lot of THAT i, LOVED a
lot of that was beautiful and. Perfect there was a
lot of toxic culture in gymnastics that we've all heard.
About WHEN i went to dancing at, sixteen my Partner Mark,
ballas and the show for me at sixteen became a

(44:55):
very healing place for. Me they kind of took me
under their wing as like a little, sister AND i got.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
To see good people who.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Cared about me as a human and not as someone
who just needed to work and win, Medals and so
it was very healing for me at, sixteen though traumatizing
in the sense of LIKE i would lock myself in
the room BECAUSE i was so embarrassed to go on
and dance in these little skimpy dresses and, stuff which
are so out of my comforts.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Up but it was very.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
HEALING i found a family there THAT i. Trusted so
WHEN i retired the second time And dina, called who's
the casting director Of, dancing it felt like my. Family
there was so much chaos going around WHEN i, retired
a lot of very disappointed, people, sponsors, agents everybody did

(45:43):
not like. THAT i retired right before The olympics in twenty,
twelve And dancing felt LIKE i could come. Home it
was people who loved me for me THOUGH i was
still performing on the, show.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
But it just felt like a safe place to.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Go how long from that season after you wanted till
they did The All? Stars four years and, okay so
you had three years to fully digest your whole. Experience,
yeah and you still said, yes, yeah even though you
were you did not love the spotlight of.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
IT I i.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Loved, hmm there's so many things. HERE i don't like
trying new. Things kind of going back to the very
beginning of this, podcast Because i'm afraid to fail mix
into That i'm very.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
SHY i love watching. DANCING i think it.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Is a beautiful art and it's always been something THAT
i want to. DO i was even a kid who
wanted to do dance, classes BUT i would feel so
intimidated by just like my shy nature THAT i didn't
know how To and SO i wanted to do dancing
BECAUSE i wanted to, perform BUT i didn't know how
to get through that. Fear so my first, season the
only THING i had a hard time with was like

(46:52):
balancing my. Confidence and so fast forward the four years
after DIGESTING i won the first, season which really helped the,
confidence but digesting it for three four years and then
going back on, IT i felt so much more confident
THAN i was at sixteen that it almost felt like
a redemption tour for, myself Where i'm, like let's go,

(47:15):
dance not be thinking through every second of the dance
what people are thinking of, me and let's go actually have.
Fun so it just felt like the second TIME i
could do, IT i could do it and actually have
fun and not be paralyzed by people's, judgment which is
probably non.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Existent who won The All stars.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Season Melissa, ryecroft who's a really close friend of.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Mine so and she was a. Dancer yeah, Right well.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Then her partner Was Tony, develauney who had not won,
before so it was like it was iconic that he
got to Win All, stars like it.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Was she was.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Phenomenal she's a beautiful.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Dancer that show that whomever you're with in the, season
it's it definitely there's a trauma. Bond, yeah there are
people THAT I i don't cross paths with OR i wouldn't,
organically but like we definitely stay in touch because it's,
like holy, Crap i've.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Got another show for you to.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Do, no you have.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
To, No.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
No we and we briefly talked about this because WHEN
i saw, YOU i saw at the airport and you
guys are so nice AND i just don't bother. People
BUT i came up AND i was, like you're awesome
on That but and that show got so. Faint that
show is like a big deal. Now so they came
to me way early before the show popped, off AND
i was, Like, ONE i DON'T i don't think this

(48:34):
is for me because it's it's it's what's it? Called
what DID i call it earlier? Guys, Yeah Terrible ways
To die or? Whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah The deadliest Of.
Death you were so awesome on the. SHOW i think
you're the reason that show kind of exploded into pop.
Culture he had a great, cast AND i think you

(48:56):
and that's WHY i, say do you ever lose anything
because you? Were you just were a. Force thank. You
it was. Consistency, YES i, don't But i'm. Good So
jamie Lan spears did and she hit me up and
she was, like, HEY i just told him they need
to call. You you have to do it AND i AND
i just got, married AND i just do. It AND
i was, LIKE i don't know if this is for.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
ME i have a reason for you to do.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
It, Okay i'm, SORRY i don't want. To by the,
way you're awesome on the. SHOW i have, questions but,
okay what is your?

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Reason because at the beginning of this, podcast you're talking
about how your baseline is like imposter.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Syndrome you have to prove.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yourself you always have to work those four guys who
are Actual navy, seals and that's WHY i did. It
there are crippling foundational things about, us especially people driven
like us that they see on day one and they
literally heal it is. Wild it Has, yeah being tortured

(49:50):
and doing all that.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Stuff i'm not saying that's, fun.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
But their psychological ability to pull out your vulnerability in
you and in such raw moments show you parts to
yourself that are so much better than you ever. Imagined
it was really.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Therapeutic would it have been as therapeutic if you hadn't? Won?
Yeah we did it drive your husband, crazy who was
a FORMER nfl player that you. Won he was on
the show.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Too, uh it did not drive in crazy THAT i.
Won it drove him crazy that he did not win with.
Me he is like a Human Golden retriever and he
just sucks it, lying which is such a beautiful quality about.
SOMEONE i still think it's he should have. Won we
all were terrible, liars but He, yeah he was not

(50:42):
surprised getting.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Buried, YEAH i don't Think i'm scared of, that BUT
i don't THINK i would like. IT i don't know
If i'm scared of. It and, they, right what about
that's what's? Interesting well that was a weird, thing, Right.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
YEAH i didn't KNOW i was clost to. PHOBIC i
really didn't.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
THINK i was, LIKE i have never in my life
experienced claus trophobia of any, kind And i've been in
small places and. Situations but something that fascinated me about the,
show especially as a parent right.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Now AND i don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
WHY i had this innate fear That i'm not going
to be qualified to do something for my, children if
that makes, sense protect. THEM i don't want to be
put in a situation Where i'm, like, OH i didn't
KNOW i was afraid of.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
THAT i can't protect my. Kids SO i told them.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
UPFRONT i was, LIKE i want you to exploit any
fear that you see in. ME i want to know
What i'm afraid. Of AND i remember we did this
like little crawling thing where you're like crawling through these,
tunnels AND i did not know UNTIL i was out
of THAT i started like. HYPERVENTILATING i was, like whatever that,
was don't like, it and don't ever want to do that.

(51:53):
Again but they have a way of teaching you how
to control.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Fear that was a gift to.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
Me let's take a quick pause for a message from our,
sponsor and we're back on The bobby. Cast what was.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
The most scared you got on that? Show.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
HMM i don't remember being, Scared BUT i think that
has to do with. Compartmentalizing from an, ATHLETE i can
turn it off for MOMENTS i THOUGHT i would. BE
i thought my biggest fear was, drowning BUT i had
no issue with like the drowning simulation plain thing that

(52:41):
we had to.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Do So, YEAH i didn't really feel. Scared it was
more of a CAN i get through?

Speaker 2 (52:50):
It it sounds, like though you have the, ability you're
calling it, compartmentalizing BUT i was talking about my psychotic
friends that can shut it. DOWN i think you have,
that you just call it a different. Word, yeah BECAUSE
i can do that to perform as far as if
life sucks AND i gotta go on stage and be,
FUNNY i can separate it no, problem, Right LIKE i

(53:10):
can the emotion BECAUSE i learned to do that as a.
Child but WHEN i had my show on THAT geo
and had to and there was a part scarce Thing
i've ever, DONE i. COULD i can't make fear goal. Away,
YEAH i can't compartmentalize. That AND i was over The
Grand canyon they have the. Skybridge, yeah AND i had
to clean the bottom of. It it's a single rope
and it's four thousand feet. UP i hate. HEIGHTS i hate.
HEIGHTS i COULD i was. Trembling, yeah SO i. DID

(53:33):
i don't have the ability to shut off the. FEAR
i have the ability to shut off anything that was bothering,
me pre even illness at. Times, yeah BECAUSE i think
that's a survival. Thing but the fear, man the stuff
that you were doing on that, SHOW i just THINK
i would HAVE i wouldn't have been, embarrassed But i'd
have wet some spots people. Did. Yeah, NO i literally
THINK i would have AND i wouldn't have been embarrassed about.

(53:54):
IT i would have been like that shows baby like
And i'll keep. Going, yeah BUT i literally think the
funny thing WAS i work for THE nfl AND i
do a show With Matt castle and we Had Eric
decker over and when he came, over he was still
on the, show a live on the, show and it
was the week he was getting kicked, off And castle

(54:16):
And decker go way, back AND i Know, ERIC i
have known it for a while or two and something
just seemed off about. Him and two days, later, yeah
two days later is when he got put off that,
show and THEN i Text castle AND i was, like
that's why he was lot because he knew his time
was coming on the. Show and HE i don't, Know,
YEAH i don't know if he was mad or if
he was embarrass because he was such an athlete he

(54:38):
didn't make but he was also, Hurt like he got hurt, though, right.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
HURT i think that was everybody's worst fear going into the.
Show is like a lot of, us especially the, athletes were,
LIKE i can get through.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
IT i KNOW i.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
CAN i can push through pain and fear and like
all of, this AND i want. TO i want to
be able to like feel that control it and push through.
It but your biggest fear is. Injury if you get
injured on that, show you have have to leave for safety, reasons.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Understandably and he.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Got really, hurt and he was so competitive he would
have finished the show, easily but it was it was.
Unfortunate it was sad to.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Watch did you get hurt at all Doing dancing with The.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
STARS i THINK i got a concussion from.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Uh from the finale in the first.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Season did you get kicked in the head you?

Speaker 1 (55:23):
FALL i just felt we were doing flips in our
finale dance AND i went to the.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Hardwood did you see it on? Camera?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
No, No, no it was during like. Training it's.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Okay oh you think you had one going into it
into the?

Speaker 3 (55:36):
FINAL i THINK i JUST i just hit my head pretty.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Hard you probably had one and didn't say anything purposefully
because you don't't take you.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Out, well it. Didn't it didn't bother me too.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Much you don't be strong with.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Me ALL i remember is it hurt for a day
AND i was, like it was fine by the next.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Day did you not want to say anything because you
thought that possibly they'd pull you.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
OUT i don't think it had any thing to do
with the.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
SHOW i think it had everything to do with HOW
i was trained in, gymnastics like injuries not, yeah, yeah,
yeah injury is not allowed in.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Gymnastics my first episode BECAUSE i never got through my
first dance and practice ever leading up to leading up to,
IT i couldn't get through. IT i didn't know what
any account was LIKE i. WAS i was so far Behind. Sharna,
okay drill, sergeant and it's exactly WHAT i. Needed, Yeah
AND i was working full time AND i was DOING
i was doing that AND i was doing In la

(56:31):
doing the radio show which started at three am out,
there AND i was touring And charna would just go
with me on weekends AS i was doing stand. Up that's. Hard,
yeah it was a. Grind AND i never finished the
dance up until the first, episode even through dress, rehearsal
AND i was just, here don't. In my heart would
just go. Crazy AND i was eighty five to ninety

(56:55):
percent through it on the first episode AND i was,
like oh my, god about to get. IT i never
got it before then on the So i'm about, TO i,
go oh my, God i'm about to get. IT i
finished the dance for the first time. EVER i get
so excited and you see. IT i jump up and
the shoes are. SLICK i jump, UP i land. Boom
it's on the first dance wipe. OUT i tear my.
Shoulder first. EPISODE i come back to The titans team.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Doctor he wrote you to cover labor.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
In the middle and it wasn't even a real tear.
Spot it was like in the like the trap, area
just an odd tear and he said it's going to
hurt all. Season it's not going to be worse, Though
like if you can handle the. Pain i'm not going
to say you can't do.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
It did he give you like A cordson shottery every?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Week? Holy way too? Many it was, no, no, no
it was. Awesome, well it was the greatest. Thing. Depends,
YES i haven't done anything like that because you're not
supposed to do it that. Often but it was.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
From that, Athlete, no you're.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Not it also wasn't Through dancing with The stars THAT i. Was,
YEAH i, know because they would not have let me
do that because you can't you're not supposed. To but
you know WHAT i learned about L. A you can't get.
Anything you can get. Anything do you get anything you?

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Want you can just hop from doctor to do.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
And give you whatever you. Want what pills do you?
Want what shots do you? Want AND i COULD i
couldn't let the show know because they were so responsible
and so BUT.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
I it's a hard. Experience, Though, YEAH i.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
WISH i would have had my left arm for the,
show but, DUDE i nailed that first. DANCE i was so.
Happy it was like one of my greatest. Feelings so that,
show it's such a, Community, like, yeah the fans can
were brutal to, me but the show is great is
not life for.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Though, yeah so the world are we live, in the.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Fans in the keyboard warriors are, hard but it's all
about keeping your community, small the people you actually listen.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
TO i think your book is very. Practical do you
think that BECAUSE I and that's a, compliment BECAUSE i
think there's for. ME i don't like When i'm getting
a lot of woo. Woo my, wife like she, writes
she likes to read science and, science baby. SCIENCE i
feel the same, way AND i feel like your book

(59:10):
is like. THAT i feel like it's very. Practical and
you and new husband do this. Together how hard was
that to do?

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Together Very it's been almost four years that we've been
working on this. Book the hardest part about my husband
AND i was we're very different. People i'm very emotion.
Driven he's very statistics, driven numbers and facts versus. Feelings
and so we tried to blend our voices for a

(59:37):
long time in the book and then ended up giving
up on. That and so you see in our book
we do my chapter versus hip, chapter my voice versus.
His but we coming from, athletics going into, marriage going
into working, together running a company, together now being parents,
together there are thousands of books out there and headlines

(59:58):
and social media saying here's your hack to being, happy
here's your hack to making a million, dollars here's your
hack to the best. Marriage and if it doesn't, work
just swipe to the next. One and that's just toxic.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Culture and it doesn't work that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Way like you said at the, beginning you've worked so
hard it's a gift and a lot of people don't
know how to do. That BUT i also think our
culture doesn't teach that that's a cool thing to do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Anymore is actually like work for.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Something and so we broke it down the word commitment
into a science, based emotional, based psychological based book and
all forms and tried to prove to people that it's
actually it's actually the hack by just sticking with something long.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Enough, yeah committing to something has the potential to have
so much. Knowledge even committing to something and doing it,
wrong you can learn so much more than waffling around
committing to. Nothing AND i think BECAUSE i one of
one of the books THAT i wrote was it's called
fail until you, don't which is just it's not don't

(01:01:06):
be afraid to make a, mistake be afraid to not
make a, mistake because if you're doing, nothing you're learning.
Nothing if at least if you're doing something and you are,
wrong you have knowledge that you've taken from that mistake
that you did not have. Before and that's WHAT i
liked about it was that the commitment is. Hard it's
hard to just decide on. Something, yeah and with the
partner in, business and, well we'll get because there are

(01:01:30):
so many. Decisions like IF i put On netflix, whatever
there's seventy two, shows and like SOMETIMES i don't even
get to a show BECAUSE i spend all the time
not committing to. Something where IF i just jump into
something and commit to, It and that's such a, basic dumb,
analogy but committing is very difficult because of all the
options we have all the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Time on an example that we give on the Show
Special forces for me.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Going into the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Show they they treat it like an. Option they, say
this is going to be a ten day, course like
a ten day. Challenge let's see how long you can.
Last you can leave at any time anytime you. Want
you don't have to say why for any, reason anytime
you can. Leave and they would they would say this
over and over and over, again are you going to

(01:02:16):
make it a?

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Day two, days three? Days how long are you going
to make?

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
It?

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Whatever and this is as we're like writing this. BOOK
i remember thinking about some of the chapters we wrote,
about like boredom and about how you just have to
choose something and you can't be decision paralysis is a.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Thing if there's talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Decision, fatigue WHICH i think was very is really, interesting
like committing eliminates decision. FATIGUE i don't mean to interrupt.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
You but, yeah, Absolutely BUT i remember going in on
day one having these thoughts in my, brain having all
these voices of, like AM i going to make it
to day? Five AM i going to make to day?
Six like trying to go through all these like options
of what could it look like to force me to
leave or to Like AND i just remember thinking about
this book and, Thinking, okay, No i'm choosing ten. Days

(01:03:01):
it is a ten day. Camp i'm here for ten.
Days i'll deal with anything. Else AND i never let
myself think about anything. Else AND i remember it feeling
very freeing on the. Show though you're getting, tortured this
might be a bad. Example though you're getting, tortured and
though you're going through hell and. Back it was never
a choice for. ME i was just, like, okay two days,

(01:03:25):
down eight to, go three days, down seven. Ago and
so all these people who are just like traumatizing themselves
around the lunch table, Saying, OH i don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
IF i should leave, today SHOULD i? Stay should?

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
It AND i was, like it's not an option for.
ME i am here for ten days and that's. It
and we say this in the. Book we get so
tired of all the options we have in life that
it drains. You and if you start choosing definitively to remove,
things it almost makes it feel like you have more.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Options and that sounds.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Weird to, say but if you're you're operating within your
boundaries and you know that within your boundaries you can do,
anything it's freeing because you don't have the distractions of
like the entire world saying there's something better over. Here
you just don't allow yourself to look at.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
It there was something too that you, said AND i
Hope i'm saying this, right but there was there's power
in like knowing what not to commit to as.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Well it was the hardest chapter to write in the.
Book how do you write a?

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Book on, commitment and then a chapter to, say uncommit
to some, things but we write about. Pruning it's Something
andrew AND i do in our life in order to
like fully dive into a. Commitment you whatever you say yes,
to you're saying no to something else or vice. Versa
but learning how to remove things in your life that
are distraction is actually a really good. THING i think

(01:04:44):
a lot of us hang on to things too long
because we're afraid to say goodbye to. It but it's
actually a very freeing thing to, say none of that
is serving like my values and my purpose and my,
commitments SO i need to get rid of.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Them. YEAH i think it's a to, me it's a
noise reduction, book like the power of like the reducing
of all the things that don't really matter that you
keep around because they might or you keep, Around and
it's like the strength of aiming and going and then

(01:05:19):
learning because we don't it's not always, right but you
just don't know what's wrong until you do, It like
you really have to commit to. It, uh great. Job
it's the kind of BOOK i like. YOU i just
do you have trouble reading it? Back?

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Yeah we had to do the audio, book which is
that is that's worse than sprecial. Forces BUT i remember
reading it in the audio book AND i was, like
we did pretty good, here that's GOOD i.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Did AND i hated. IT i hated EVERYTHING i. SAID
i was, Like i'm. Stupid, no not. Yours. No, YEAH
i was, like, Oh i'm. STUPID i hate me THAT i.
HATE i am so over me just in, general just in, life, Right,
Like i'm so over. Me i'm BECAUSE i thought my
whole brand is is like here's WHAT i. Think it's
Like i'm over, it but it's also WHAT i have to.
Do but, yeah that AUDIOBOOK i never felt more.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Stupid, well your book is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Amazing no you didn't Read, no, no, no, no we have it
on our. Shelf this is not about.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Me i'm going to take a picture And i'm going
to send it to. You it is about.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
YOU.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Ai.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Stoprecating i'm going to SAY ai.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Book.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
No you said your wife is a ferocious. Reader that's my.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Husband he reads a book every two. DAYS i have
not read your. BOOK i don't read. BOOKS i read my.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Book but would you go back and read it all
the way through when you were? Done?

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
YEAH i read it four.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Times we proud of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
IT i was very skeptical at the, beginning because not about.
Me i'm, like why is anybody going to listen to
anything THAT i have to? Say and then the MORE
i read, it the MORE i was, like, oh LIKE
i really agree with all of, this and it made
me really.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Proud the weird thing about putting out a book is
you don't you can't get any sort of quick, gratification
even if it's, good because it takes a long time
for somebody to read a. Book. Yeah where IF i
tell a, joke people. Laugh, yeah if friend puts out a,
song it's three minutes like, it or don't you put
out a? Book and even like my friends that would read.
It AFTER i put it, OUT i was, like that's
such a. Commitment thank you so. MUCH i can't believe

(01:07:12):
you spent all that time reading the. Book LIKE i was, just,
yeah it is Such it's so hard to, do, though
to write a, book and it's really. Good AND i
don't remember the word but it's been a few days
Since i've even opened, it so pardon my misinterpretation of
What i'm about to. Say the very beginning of, IT
i don't. Remember it's like a. Double you start with

(01:07:34):
a story about.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
A double tis yeah what double? Twisting? Yes one, two one?

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Two okay on the? Floor can you paraphrase that? STORY
i don't want you to run, it can.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
You.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
YEAH i write a story at the very beginning that, says,
basically the first TIME i landed this, move which is
a you're spinning two full circles and flipping two first
full circles at the same. Time for you ever touched
the gown the first TIME i landed, THAT i basically
go on to explain it's not THAT i just landed
a skill for the first time that. Day it's the

(01:08:09):
accumulation of ten years of. Work and you can't just
go into a gym and learn that. Skill you have
to learn a thousand skills that kind of like progress into.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
It and SO.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
I write in the book, basically it's like the compounding
of those years brought me to this, moment and it's
hard to explain that To, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
Something else the Kip i'll learned about Learn, yeah the? Kip? Wow? What?

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Yeah thank you you read?

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
That, okay that's. Great the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Kip the kip is the it's like a foundational skill in,
gymnastics but it's a skill in gymnastics that people know
in the. Sport it's the hardest skill to. Learn it's
like so frustratingly hard and. Annoying and if you can
learn a, kip you can learn any single or any
single skill in the entire. Sport and it took me

(01:09:02):
a year to, learn AND i remember failing for a
year and the first TIME i finally got it after
a year's worth of, work feeling LIKE i was like.
Invincible and that's what hooked me to the. WHOLE i
can accomplish something IF i put my mind to.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
It, well we were talking about it before you came
in on. Camera i'll showed it, again the courage to. Commit,
boom there it is. Again great. Job don't be surprised
THAT i like red. Stuff and like.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
You said the same, thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
That's, okay you're, right that's my security talking Because i'm,
like well it's just stupid. Me it's, okay fair, enough,
same fair. ENOUGH i do think like you're a total ba,
though like, really like you, know we don't we've seen
each other and we've talked here and, there but LIKE
i really like admire not just what you've, done but

(01:09:53):
kind of what you stand, for and just how consistent
you have to be to be good at what you've
been good, at because consistency is the it's the hardest.
Saying it is the hard it is the number one.
Currency it's consistency because if you do anything, consistent you
can do anything. Well it's just so hard to do it.
Consistently and that's WHY i think so highly of. You thank,
you so thank you for.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
This thank.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
You hope you sell ten million copies of this. Thing,
YEAH i have to sell Ten, okay see there she.

Speaker 5 (01:10:20):
Goes thank, You, sean thank, you thanks for listening to
A Bobby cast.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Production