July 19, 2026 • 21 mins
Originally aired on July 18, 2026. Doug's insightful interview with expert Mark Johnson, for your listening pleasure.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mark you there, Yes, I am. How are you perfect?
I'm doing really well.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Mark.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Thanks is glad to kind of glad to put a
voice with a name.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
So, first off, what on earth was the major you
had in school that led you to a master's thesis
on beach erosion and accretion.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I well, thank you Doug for letting me be on
a listener of this show for decades.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Oh, God, really appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I will tell you that I was born and raised
in Clearwater, Florida, and I've been fascinated with water since
I was a child, and I got my masters in
ocean engineering because of.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
My real desire for the water.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
And I'll just say this about where the idea of
the surf zone and all that, I believe that and
take this for what I say. I believe one of
God's created greatest creations is the breaking wave.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
And for most people, why I say that is they
take for granted for the fact that a wave breaks
over and does a curl and does all these things.
And as a surfer, you know that what you're seeing
there is water actually forming into somewhat of a solid yeah,
(01:26):
and creating a curling wave that forms a tunnel and
a shoot that supports the human on a board. And
You're right, it's the most fascinating thing I've ever encountered.
And I believe it's God's way of saying, Hey, you
know those normal things that I do for you, they're
very special.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, that is a very good way to look at it.
It's a very an eye opening way to perceive a wave.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
And if you don't believe it's a.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Solid, just just get hit in the face by a
lip or something like that.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Right, it's pretty dark.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
And for the sake of this discussion, we'll just say this.
When I look at waves, I look at them as energy.
They are forced and I can give you an example
of that as you being a surfer as well. If
you take the iceberg type of idea, the curl that
(02:22):
you're surfing is the part that you see above the surface,
the tip of the iceberg. A lot of the energy
is below that, and it's like a large tumbler running
along the bottom of the sand, turning and turning.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And if you fall into that, and you know this that.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
They will put you into a turning effect, taking you downward,
up and around, and it's spiraling all the way up
the beach.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That is so much energy.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
That is dissipating as it goes up. That causes all
of the things we're about to describe.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And for fishermen, for a surfer, anybody who's ever served
head high waves are bigger knows all too well what
it's like to just be tumbled you don't know which
ways up for about five, six, seven, eight seconds, depending
on where you are, and you finally, I started surfing
before leashes, so I know what it's like to get
(03:22):
tumbled for all that time, pop up and see your
board already fifty yards away and headed farther away, have
to swim back to that stage you've.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Got and say, you've got to physically feel this. These
things called energy.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Forces, right, oh god, yeah, And.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
These energy foruss have the capability of I believe, in
the state of Texas, of the three hundred and sixty
seven miles of the Texas coast, four point one feet
of it erodes every year because of this energy. Now
that's thousands and tons of san being posited and redeposited. Now,
(04:03):
let's go on and let's let me describe you some
things for everybody so they also understand how this works.
Waves are generated by the amount of inclination that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That area has as the wave.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Energy comes in, and that as it comes in, that
that angle and inclination determines that wavefront. Now that wavefront
can cause earlier curls, it can cause what's known as
uh humbling waves, and then you can get waves where
(04:40):
you get where you get at the disposition of a
high tide, where you have back energy from the wave
before it coming back into that wave.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And it's very disruptive.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Right now, those kind of waves create sandbars.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
And this is where our fishermen are here.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We go. Now they're up there, we go right now,
they're going to perk up.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Let me please say this before we continue about this.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Okay, let me.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Make sure everybody understands if you, if you fish a
certain area, never ever take for granted that the week
before you go that it's the same.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
The when you come back.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah, there are so many things happening during that time.
I honestly always tell everybody, if you have children, if
you have elderly and if you have if you're a fisherman,
when you first arrived there, look with your own eyes
at what you see out there, and the other thing
is without your equipment, walk up through the surf zone
(05:46):
and feel how the currents are running side to side
and in and out, and feel and see if those
things are changed from the last time you were out there,
because you can't afford to be in that amount of
energy with all the things in your hand until you
know what it is, because there's a huge probability that
this area you've been fishing has changed. And for small children,
(06:09):
elderly and so forth. Currents long long shore currents, these
are currents that run down the side and those are
due to angular waves coming in can be put cuts
real close to the beach. But what's more dangerous, and
you know this is as you go out and you've
got a sandbar, you may have another sandbar formation after
(06:33):
it that you may not have had before, or all.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Of them have shifted.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That does happen a wow.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
And that happens right.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And your fishermen want to know where those sandbars are
because the smart ones know that's where the fish are
going to go into there because as we know, fish
try to protect.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
Their energy, so they go.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Into these places of subsidence where the energy goes over
them and actually the waves bring the new trents and
things to them without them having to release a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Of That's very similar to the way a rainbow trout
sits in a stream unless the current go over them.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Right, exactly right, exactly right, and and the young and
the young get bred in there, and that's how they
stay protected because the larger fish.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Can't get into them right right.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So it's a breeding area. That's all these things.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And also after storm events, they're in there eating all
the nutrients and so.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Forth that's been deposited in the water.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Now I have looked up and I had to find
this on Noah Doug that there are no real statistics
about the idea.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
We don't keep that in.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
The United States, but Noah does keep surf stone fatalities,
and the number one, by far tenfold are rip currents,
oh yeah, absolutely, followed by high surf, and then the
rest of them are are not all that and they
all occur during the summertime and that's when we have
(08:16):
major storm events. Now, for all the listeners out there,
a riptide occurs when you have let's say a spit
or a jetty and the sidewaves come in and they
bounce off. Think of them again, its energy, sure, and
they move along the coastline and you have another set
(08:38):
coming into that same permutation coming out. What happens then
is that that energy reflects off of it and bounces
back out. When it does, it forms with the other
waves and forms the current straight back out.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
These are the most dangerous things that anyone can get
involved with.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And at this.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Point you know all the rules about if you get
caught a riptide. I've heard you recite them before. If
you'd like to recite them now, well I would.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I would say just to let the water take you
wherever it's going to take you until you don't feel
that force against you. Then just try to make your
way slowly back to the beach, but don't try to
go against it.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I never go against it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
That's absolutely correct.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
It's impossible.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
We're talking about energy that's so strong it would move
a semi truck and let alone.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's pushing you out.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
And I would say this to anybody who's along a beachline.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
It's not normal for most people.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
If you're sitting at that beach to see somebody way
out that's by themselves. Take the percentage and say, if
they're out there there's a huge possibility that they.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Need help and they don't want to be out there anymore.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
That's correct, right, So for us as.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
We observe the beach, and we should be because it's
a beautiful thing. You see someone out there and they're
way out there, and if that looks abnormal, it's probably abnormal.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
They need help.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, get the lifeguards.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Get the lifeguards.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Now that being said, when you get out, what happens
again in the circulation pattern where these waves are coming in, Doug,
They'll eventually you'll start drifting down the beach. So if
you ever get caught in a rip tide, the first
thing you say is you're right. You relax, You try
to float, but take a spot on the beach and
(10:35):
look and see if you're moving and how far you're moving.
There'll be a time when that movement starts slowing down,
and that's when you can start coming if you've got
the energy to come back here. Now let's talk about fishing.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, well, I tell you, hey, do me a favor.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Can you stick around for a while because I want
to I need to take a break here, but I
want to come back. And let's let's get the fishing
side and try to teach people how to read the
breaks in the surf, read the brakes in the in
the bars and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Okay, all right, yes, sir, had no problem.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Perfect. Stand by one second.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
We're talking to Mark Johnson from all the way over
in Gainesville, Georgia by way of the Heights here for
a while, by way of Florida for a while.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Mark, Welcome back.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Man.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So you're the one who wrote the thesis on this
beach erosion and accretion due to storms and whatnot. But
as a fisherman, I'm looking at the Jetti Park live
cam right now. We've got very small, like maybe shin
high waves, maybe a knee high wave against the rocks,
and then down the beach a little ways, maybe a
long border could get a ride.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
There's a few people out there hoping and wishing for
bigger waves.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But if I'm standing on the beach.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And I'm trying to figure out where the bars are,
the bars and the guts are easy. Okay, we can
figure that out. But I want to find a little
cut in a bar somewhere. What am I looking for?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Typically I will just say this for the surf type
of fishermen.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Really need to get around low tide when the tide
comes down because at that time there's not enough water
coming over the.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Different sandbars that may be coming in.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
It will also show you where cuts are being developed.
And when I say cuts, this is also where you
can see riptides. If you see a wavefront and in
the middle of that wavefront you see what appears to
be a dead area.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
What you see there.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Is possibly a riptide, or it's the idea. It's where
it's trying to develop into another sort of sandbar, and
it's increating the sand out of the first sandbar into
the back sandbar. So what you want, I will tell
you this, and I want you to whether you agree
(12:57):
or not, I believe that surf fishermen probably I have
to be the best fishermen in the world because their
environment changes constantly, as does the species that they've got.
As the barometic, everything affects the effect. Yeah, let me
(13:19):
you have to kind of be in there at low
tide because at high tide there's too much.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Water coming in.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
And the thing about high tide is is also going
to bring sand and it's going to make more.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Changes, and that changes happens over time.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
One of the things I wanted to point out.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Let me, let me get to this point real quickly,
especially at a little bit lower tide. So you're watching
this wave and ideally they're nice long little strips of
wave coming in like there are this morning, and this
this wave is coming forward, and it starts to peek up,
and it starts to peak up, and like you say,
there's a little a little point there where within that wave,
(13:58):
there's just a dead spot like you're talking about. And
from what I understand as that water moving forward or
the the energy moving forward, pushes that most of that
wave up onto that bar. If there's a gut in
that bar, that water just stays on the bottom basically, right.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
That's correct, Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So that's your that's that's your visual queue.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
That there's something that so.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Your visual queue is is almost like common sense. If
you see something wave breaking, you know there's an object there.
If you see that there's something isn't there, you know
there's something that's more of a depression that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Even water.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Now jetties for instance, okay, one time our thought things
to think about with jetties. Wave energy causes scouring and
scowering causes these deposits along the side of them that
are much deeper. The The best redfish fishing I've ever
had in my life was in Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
We fished the.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Outside of the jetty about one thousand feet from the
front edge back in and they were all sitting down
in there. It was a cooler water, and all they
were doing is they were sitting there waiting for when
the water was turbulent coming around the edge of that jetti,
it brought them right into them and they were just
(15:27):
they would feed and we just nailed them on that. Now,
jetties are what I'm also saying is a target area
that you need to look at because with angular waves
that come in, those angular waves will come out and
if you've got any sort of channeling of water outward
as you would think as a riptide, especially if it's
(15:50):
coming out of a bay that may have fresh water
coming out of it, it will push all that straight
out and that when that turbulent area is if you
can move out into the jetties, stay out of the
you know, the boat zone, and fish that area at
the right time. The amount of turbulence and material in
there you're gonna hit bigger fish, so they're coming in
(16:11):
to be predators on the smaller fish.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
That's good stuff. It's all good stuff. Sure, how often Mark,
how often.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I mean you talk about this just being a constant
state of erosion almost where everything's going to change. What
every two or three tide changes or does it take
a little bit more turbulence to really move a lot
of sand?
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Typically what you.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Let's say, without a storm event of any type, if
you get a high tide on a full moon, you're
going to have the largest amount of water come in
baron mac pressure changes biometrically, you get more water coming in.
The amount of water.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
That comes in changes that because it's going.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
To pick up more stand and it's going to carry it.
Right now, you made a good point. I always say
beach erosion, there's also beach accretion.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
The standard it's picked up.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
From somewhere else, it's moved another place. It may be
just they're on the same amount of beach, and depending
on the wayfront coming at an angle, it can move the.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Sand either moved forward backward.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
But most of the time it's kind of a normal state.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
But the state of Texas loses so much sand.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So this is Florida.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
That's why I got it. That's why I was paid
by the Army Corps to do. My thesis was it's
become a legal battle because people's land.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
They market on.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
One year, it's there, in the next year it's gone.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah, it used to be waterfront property. Now it's just water.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So let's let's real quick, because I know we're going.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Okay, let's talk.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
About this when you have, When you have and you're
doing this, you're doing your.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Surf stuff as a fisherman.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Let me just give you a couple of things that
I've learned and I've learned from other fishermen. You're gonna
be dealing with murky water.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
All right.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Your lures should be as bright as they can be,
and they should make noise, okay or both right.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right, live and cut baits.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
You what you're gonna do there is if it's got
a scent, if you want if you want it to
work the best. If I'm if I'm working a jetty,
I've got to put it down into that hole it's
right next to the jetty. If I'm working a sandbar,
I need.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
That to go over that sandbar into.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
That that area where it's a little more less energy,
so that that bait's taste or the smell gets into
that water. They'll come to it, trust me, they'll come
to it.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Now.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
The other part of this is depending on how that
that bottom is running, and depending on what you're looking for,
you need to use either a heavier uh fishing gear
or you may need to shift during the tide because
you may want to start, let's say, at the at
(19:24):
the bottom. You know, maybe maybe you change. You may change,
you may go from flounder to just snapper right, and
and those kind of things change. You're perfectly aware of
the fact that you just.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Can't guess these things.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
You've got to have an understanding that these energy that's
moving through there will affect how your gear is affecting
how those fish look at it. Typically I would I
would say, depending on where you are.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
And this again, this is why I think surf fishermen.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
So amazing is they they can choose whether I'm gonna
go to the bottom, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
To the top, if I'm gonna go fast.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
But again, in the surf area, shiny noisy things or
bait that you can get that has smelt behind that
standboar or down inside that scouring area next.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
To the to the uh uh uh, either a pure
or so forth.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
That's your best bets, I got you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
We're gonna have to drop it there. I'm afraid, Mark,
but this has been very informative. I really appreciate this one,
you know, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Man, I do it.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Yeah, I really appreciate you. Uh You've done so much
for U, for the state of Texas and uh as
my my father passed away this year with military honors,
your your your commitment to the honor of of of
our soldiers. I cannot tell you enough how much I
appreciate your your for that and uh I have at
(20:57):
any time, I've got other things I can talk about
about currents, I'm sure as well.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay, So thank you Doug for allowing me to be here.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Well, thank you, Marcus. My pleasure I really.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Was Thanks buddy, oh Man, thank you, Yes, sir, thank
you boy.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Holy cow. We learned a lot. We're gonna learn a
lot more.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I'm gonna pick his brain more than just this once,
I can assure you, because I can. I can tell
from talking to him that he knows way more than
we could talk about in twenty thirty minutes,
Mark you there, Yes, I am. How are you perfect?
I'm doing really well.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Mark.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Thanks is glad to kind of glad to put a
voice with a name.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
So, first off, what on earth was the major you
had in school that led you to a master's thesis
on beach erosion and accretion.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I well, thank you Doug for letting me be on
a listener of this show for decades.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Oh, God, really appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I will tell you that I was born and raised
in Clearwater, Florida, and I've been fascinated with water since
I was a child, and I got my masters in
ocean engineering because of.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
My real desire for the water.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
And I'll just say this about where the idea of
the surf zone and all that, I believe that and
take this for what I say. I believe one of
God's created greatest creations is the breaking wave.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
And for most people, why I say that is they
take for granted for the fact that a wave breaks
over and does a curl and does all these things.
And as a surfer, you know that what you're seeing
there is water actually forming into somewhat of a solid yeah,
(01:26):
and creating a curling wave that forms a tunnel and
a shoot that supports the human on a board. And
You're right, it's the most fascinating thing I've ever encountered.
And I believe it's God's way of saying, Hey, you
know those normal things that I do for you, they're
very special.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, that is a very good way to look at it.
It's a very an eye opening way to perceive a wave.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
And if you don't believe it's a.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Solid, just just get hit in the face by a
lip or something like that.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Right, it's pretty dark.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
And for the sake of this discussion, we'll just say this.
When I look at waves, I look at them as energy.
They are forced and I can give you an example
of that as you being a surfer as well. If
you take the iceberg type of idea, the curl that
(02:22):
you're surfing is the part that you see above the surface,
the tip of the iceberg. A lot of the energy
is below that, and it's like a large tumbler running
along the bottom of the sand, turning and turning.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And if you fall into that, and you know this that.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
They will put you into a turning effect, taking you downward,
up and around, and it's spiraling all the way up
the beach.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That is so much energy.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
That is dissipating as it goes up. That causes all
of the things we're about to describe.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And for fishermen, for a surfer, anybody who's ever served
head high waves are bigger knows all too well what
it's like to just be tumbled you don't know which
ways up for about five, six, seven, eight seconds, depending
on where you are, and you finally, I started surfing
before leashes, so I know what it's like to get
(03:22):
tumbled for all that time, pop up and see your
board already fifty yards away and headed farther away, have
to swim back to that stage you've.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Got and say, you've got to physically feel this. These
things called energy.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Forces, right, oh god, yeah, And.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
These energy foruss have the capability of I believe, in
the state of Texas, of the three hundred and sixty
seven miles of the Texas coast, four point one feet
of it erodes every year because of this energy. Now
that's thousands and tons of san being posited and redeposited. Now,
(04:03):
let's go on and let's let me describe you some
things for everybody so they also understand how this works.
Waves are generated by the amount of inclination that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That area has as the wave.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Energy comes in, and that as it comes in, that
that angle and inclination determines that wavefront. Now that wavefront
can cause earlier curls, it can cause what's known as
uh humbling waves, and then you can get waves where
(04:40):
you get where you get at the disposition of a
high tide, where you have back energy from the wave
before it coming back into that wave.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And it's very disruptive.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Right now, those kind of waves create sandbars.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
And this is where our fishermen are here.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We go. Now they're up there, we go right now,
they're going to perk up.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Let me please say this before we continue about this.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Okay, let me.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Make sure everybody understands if you, if you fish a
certain area, never ever take for granted that the week
before you go that it's the same.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
The when you come back.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah, there are so many things happening during that time.
I honestly always tell everybody, if you have children, if
you have elderly and if you have if you're a fisherman,
when you first arrived there, look with your own eyes
at what you see out there, and the other thing
is without your equipment, walk up through the surf zone
(05:46):
and feel how the currents are running side to side
and in and out, and feel and see if those
things are changed from the last time you were out there,
because you can't afford to be in that amount of
energy with all the things in your hand until you
know what it is, because there's a huge probability that
this area you've been fishing has changed. And for small children,
(06:09):
elderly and so forth. Currents long long shore currents, these
are currents that run down the side and those are
due to angular waves coming in can be put cuts
real close to the beach. But what's more dangerous, and
you know this is as you go out and you've
got a sandbar, you may have another sandbar formation after
(06:33):
it that you may not have had before, or all.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Of them have shifted.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That does happen a wow.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
And that happens right.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And your fishermen want to know where those sandbars are
because the smart ones know that's where the fish are
going to go into there because as we know, fish
try to protect.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
Their energy, so they go.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Into these places of subsidence where the energy goes over
them and actually the waves bring the new trents and
things to them without them having to release a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Of That's very similar to the way a rainbow trout
sits in a stream unless the current go over them.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Right, exactly right, exactly right, and and the young and
the young get bred in there, and that's how they
stay protected because the larger fish.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Can't get into them right right.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So it's a breeding area. That's all these things.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And also after storm events, they're in there eating all
the nutrients and so.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Forth that's been deposited in the water.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Now I have looked up and I had to find
this on Noah Doug that there are no real statistics
about the idea.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
We don't keep that in.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
The United States, but Noah does keep surf stone fatalities,
and the number one, by far tenfold are rip currents,
oh yeah, absolutely, followed by high surf, and then the
rest of them are are not all that and they
all occur during the summertime and that's when we have
(08:16):
major storm events. Now, for all the listeners out there,
a riptide occurs when you have let's say a spit
or a jetty and the sidewaves come in and they
bounce off. Think of them again, its energy, sure, and
they move along the coastline and you have another set
(08:38):
coming into that same permutation coming out. What happens then
is that that energy reflects off of it and bounces
back out. When it does, it forms with the other
waves and forms the current straight back out.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
These are the most dangerous things that anyone can get
involved with.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And at this.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Point you know all the rules about if you get
caught a riptide. I've heard you recite them before. If
you'd like to recite them now, well I would.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I would say just to let the water take you
wherever it's going to take you until you don't feel
that force against you. Then just try to make your
way slowly back to the beach, but don't try to
go against it.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I never go against it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
That's absolutely correct.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
It's impossible.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
We're talking about energy that's so strong it would move
a semi truck and let alone.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's pushing you out.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
And I would say this to anybody who's along a beachline.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
It's not normal for most people.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
If you're sitting at that beach to see somebody way
out that's by themselves. Take the percentage and say, if
they're out there there's a huge possibility that they.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Need help and they don't want to be out there anymore.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
That's correct, right, So for us as.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
We observe the beach, and we should be because it's
a beautiful thing. You see someone out there and they're
way out there, and if that looks abnormal, it's probably abnormal.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
They need help.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, get the lifeguards.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Get the lifeguards.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Now that being said, when you get out, what happens
again in the circulation pattern where these waves are coming in, Doug,
They'll eventually you'll start drifting down the beach. So if
you ever get caught in a rip tide, the first
thing you say is you're right. You relax, You try
to float, but take a spot on the beach and
(10:35):
look and see if you're moving and how far you're moving.
There'll be a time when that movement starts slowing down,
and that's when you can start coming if you've got
the energy to come back here. Now let's talk about fishing.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, well, I tell you, hey, do me a favor.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Can you stick around for a while because I want
to I need to take a break here, but I
want to come back. And let's let's get the fishing
side and try to teach people how to read the
breaks in the surf, read the brakes in the in
the bars and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Okay, all right, yes, sir, had no problem.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Perfect. Stand by one second.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
We're talking to Mark Johnson from all the way over
in Gainesville, Georgia by way of the Heights here for
a while, by way of Florida for a while.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Mark, Welcome back.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Man.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So you're the one who wrote the thesis on this
beach erosion and accretion due to storms and whatnot. But
as a fisherman, I'm looking at the Jetti Park live
cam right now. We've got very small, like maybe shin
high waves, maybe a knee high wave against the rocks,
and then down the beach a little ways, maybe a
long border could get a ride.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
There's a few people out there hoping and wishing for
bigger waves.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But if I'm standing on the beach.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And I'm trying to figure out where the bars are,
the bars and the guts are easy. Okay, we can
figure that out. But I want to find a little
cut in a bar somewhere. What am I looking for?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Typically I will just say this for the surf type
of fishermen.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Really need to get around low tide when the tide
comes down because at that time there's not enough water
coming over the.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Different sandbars that may be coming in.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
It will also show you where cuts are being developed.
And when I say cuts, this is also where you
can see riptides. If you see a wavefront and in
the middle of that wavefront you see what appears to
be a dead area.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
What you see there.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Is possibly a riptide, or it's the idea. It's where
it's trying to develop into another sort of sandbar, and
it's increating the sand out of the first sandbar into
the back sandbar. So what you want, I will tell
you this, and I want you to whether you agree
(12:57):
or not, I believe that surf fishermen probably I have
to be the best fishermen in the world because their
environment changes constantly, as does the species that they've got.
As the barometic, everything affects the effect. Yeah, let me
(13:19):
you have to kind of be in there at low
tide because at high tide there's too much.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Water coming in.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
And the thing about high tide is is also going
to bring sand and it's going to make more.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Changes, and that changes happens over time.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
One of the things I wanted to point out.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Let me, let me get to this point real quickly,
especially at a little bit lower tide. So you're watching
this wave and ideally they're nice long little strips of
wave coming in like there are this morning, and this
this wave is coming forward, and it starts to peek up,
and it starts to peak up, and like you say,
there's a little a little point there where within that wave,
(13:58):
there's just a dead spot like you're talking about. And
from what I understand as that water moving forward or
the the energy moving forward, pushes that most of that
wave up onto that bar. If there's a gut in
that bar, that water just stays on the bottom basically, right.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
That's correct, Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So that's your that's that's your visual queue.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
That there's something that so.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Your visual queue is is almost like common sense. If
you see something wave breaking, you know there's an object there.
If you see that there's something isn't there, you know
there's something that's more of a depression that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Even water.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Now jetties for instance, okay, one time our thought things
to think about with jetties. Wave energy causes scouring and
scowering causes these deposits along the side of them that
are much deeper. The The best redfish fishing I've ever
had in my life was in Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
We fished the.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Outside of the jetty about one thousand feet from the
front edge back in and they were all sitting down
in there. It was a cooler water, and all they
were doing is they were sitting there waiting for when
the water was turbulent coming around the edge of that jetti,
it brought them right into them and they were just
(15:27):
they would feed and we just nailed them on that. Now,
jetties are what I'm also saying is a target area
that you need to look at because with angular waves
that come in, those angular waves will come out and
if you've got any sort of channeling of water outward
as you would think as a riptide, especially if it's
(15:50):
coming out of a bay that may have fresh water
coming out of it, it will push all that straight
out and that when that turbulent area is if you
can move out into the jetties, stay out of the
you know, the boat zone, and fish that area at
the right time. The amount of turbulence and material in
there you're gonna hit bigger fish, so they're coming in
(16:11):
to be predators on the smaller fish.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
That's good stuff. It's all good stuff. Sure, how often Mark,
how often.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I mean you talk about this just being a constant
state of erosion almost where everything's going to change. What
every two or three tide changes or does it take
a little bit more turbulence to really move a lot
of sand?
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Typically what you.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Let's say, without a storm event of any type, if
you get a high tide on a full moon, you're
going to have the largest amount of water come in
baron mac pressure changes biometrically, you get more water coming in.
The amount of water.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
That comes in changes that because it's going.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
To pick up more stand and it's going to carry it.
Right now, you made a good point. I always say
beach erosion, there's also beach accretion.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
The standard it's picked up.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
From somewhere else, it's moved another place. It may be
just they're on the same amount of beach, and depending
on the wayfront coming at an angle, it can move the.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Sand either moved forward backward.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
But most of the time it's kind of a normal state.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
But the state of Texas loses so much sand.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So this is Florida.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
That's why I got it. That's why I was paid
by the Army Corps to do. My thesis was it's
become a legal battle because people's land.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
They market on.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
One year, it's there, in the next year it's gone.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah, it used to be waterfront property. Now it's just water.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So let's let's real quick, because I know we're going.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Okay, let's talk.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
About this when you have, When you have and you're
doing this, you're doing your.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Surf stuff as a fisherman.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Let me just give you a couple of things that
I've learned and I've learned from other fishermen. You're gonna
be dealing with murky water.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
All right.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Your lures should be as bright as they can be,
and they should make noise, okay or both right.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right, live and cut baits.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
You what you're gonna do there is if it's got
a scent, if you want if you want it to
work the best. If I'm if I'm working a jetty,
I've got to put it down into that hole it's
right next to the jetty. If I'm working a sandbar,
I need.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
That to go over that sandbar into.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
That that area where it's a little more less energy,
so that that bait's taste or the smell gets into
that water. They'll come to it, trust me, they'll come
to it.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Now.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
The other part of this is depending on how that
that bottom is running, and depending on what you're looking for,
you need to use either a heavier uh fishing gear
or you may need to shift during the tide because
you may want to start, let's say, at the at
(19:24):
the bottom. You know, maybe maybe you change. You may change,
you may go from flounder to just snapper right, and
and those kind of things change. You're perfectly aware of
the fact that you just.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Can't guess these things.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
You've got to have an understanding that these energy that's
moving through there will affect how your gear is affecting
how those fish look at it. Typically I would I
would say, depending on where you are.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
And this again, this is why I think surf fishermen.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
So amazing is they they can choose whether I'm gonna
go to the bottom, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
To the top, if I'm gonna go fast.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
But again, in the surf area, shiny noisy things or
bait that you can get that has smelt behind that
standboar or down inside that scouring area next.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
To the to the uh uh uh, either a pure
or so forth.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
That's your best bets, I got you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
We're gonna have to drop it there. I'm afraid, Mark,
but this has been very informative. I really appreciate this one,
you know, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Man, I do it.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Yeah, I really appreciate you. Uh You've done so much
for U, for the state of Texas and uh as
my my father passed away this year with military honors,
your your your commitment to the honor of of of
our soldiers. I cannot tell you enough how much I
appreciate your your for that and uh I have at
(20:57):
any time, I've got other things I can talk about
about currents, I'm sure as well.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay, So thank you Doug for allowing me to be here.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Well, thank you, Marcus. My pleasure I really.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Was Thanks buddy, oh Man, thank you, Yes, sir, thank
you boy.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Holy cow. We learned a lot. We're gonna learn a
lot more.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I'm gonna pick his brain more than just this once,
I can assure you, because I can. I can tell
from talking to him that he knows way more than
we could talk about in twenty thirty minutes,
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