​​AM Show HR 2 - Best Of The Michael Berry Show For 11-25-24

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look at the issues that just keeps coming up again
and again and again and again, and it doesn't come
up or it isn't talked about sufficiently for how important
it is to the country. Is the role major corporations
in this country, the influence they exert on day to
day life, and if you think about it, it is profound.

(00:20):
First of all, they are a major employer. So let's
say Fortune five hundred companies decide we're not going to
hire black people. Well, that's going to close. That's an
avenue that is shut off to black people. But what
if instead they said we're not going to hire conservatives,
or we're not going to hire military veterans, or we're

(00:42):
not going to hire men, or we're not going to
hire Christians. As an employer, that is a massive influence
on American culture. But it's so much more than that.
They are not only an employer, they are a client.
Major corporations, particularly retail corporations, spend a lot of money

(01:03):
on marketing and advertising and brand building and as an
outlet of that and increasingly digital to include social media.
So you've got companies that are spending money with Twitter
and Facebook, and for instance, there now I think it's
one hundred companies now have pulled their their spend with Twitter.

(01:25):
You pull your spend with Twitter, you get Elon's attention.
Because that's a massive way that this play. You know,
that's a large percentage of how these companies, these platforms
make their money. I have committed to spending more time
talking about how these companies crush the spirit of their employees.
And we found a story. And I didn't do this

(01:47):
sooner because we had the election to deal with. The
New York Post had a piece on October twenty fourth
that was an excerpt of the book. And the book
is called Levi's Unbuttoned The Woke Bob took my job
but gave me my voice. It's about a woman named
Jennifer Say. That spelled se Y if you want to
look this up for yourself. She wrote this book. Did

(02:10):
Jennifer Say? She was on track to become the first
woman CEO of Levi, Strauss and Company. Pretty big deal
considering how long that company's been around. And my wife
being on the board of directors of a fortune five
hundred company and a former Secretary of State of Texas
and a law firm partner and all those sorts of things.
I can tell you have to be not only smart

(02:30):
and smarter than the dudes, but typically tougher than the
dudes to make it to the top as a woman
in corporate America. It's true, it's tough, it's not easy.
And she was the president of the Levi's brand. This
is a big deal. And this is not something you
fall into lightly. It's not something you show up on
the first day. You put your career into this. This
is a commitment. But as we will discuss with her,

(02:52):
she's our guest. As we will discuss with her, she
was silenced and she didn't go oh quietly. That's the
problem with tough women. You want tough women to lead
your organization. But when you do a tough woman wrong,
hell hath no fury and Jennifer say is our guest.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Welcome, Thank you for having me. I love the intro.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Now, before we get to your professional career, you've done
all this while in addition, and this has to be
the hardest part of your career life experiences energy, exerted frustration,
emotional distress. You're also the mother of four children.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I am, and wait till you hear the range of ages.
They go from twenty two to six all the way
down to six.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oh my goodness. Okay, well, let's start with the professional
stuff that is the subject of the book, and then
I want to get into your personal life. We have
dedicated some time to you this evening because I think
this could be a wonderful opportunity for us to see
inside the belly of the beast, a sort of whistleblower,
first hand perspective from an embedded not journalist, but a

(04:05):
first person player. All right, so tell me a little
bit about why you chose to write the book. Levi's unbuttoned.
The woke mob took my job but gave me my voice.
You knew that not everybody would like that you did this.
You knew that some would argue this was sour grapes.
Why do this?

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah? Well, you know, the long and short of the
story is in March twenty twenty, when lockdowns and school
closures happened, I was outspoken about it, and I was
focused on the impact to children in public schools in
the city where I lived, San Francisco, public schools were
closed for eighteen months, and I was very outspoken about
it on social media. I led rallies to get the

(04:43):
schools open, and I was repeatedly told over the course
of two years at the company that I needed to
stop doing that, all while my peers who were telling
me this, and my boss, the CEO, were sending their
children to open in person private schools. My kids went
to public, but I wasn't just speaking for my children.
I was speaking for the fifty thousand public school students

(05:05):
in San Francisco and those across the country. You know.
I was alarmed by the harms to the children, of course,
and we're seeing that all played out. But as I
was censored and pushed repeatedly to stop talking about it,
despite the hypocrisy that they were sending their own children
to school, I became more and more alarmed by the

(05:27):
censorship and by this inability to debate issues that matter,
that are of critical importance, not just to our children,
but to all of us, which you know that ability
debate is really, you know, the bedrock of our democracy
and it's the only way we can find truth, really,
And so eventually, after two years of speaking out on

(05:50):
this subject, I was told there wasn't a place for
me at the company any longer. I wasn't lying to
be CEO. I was. You know, there were others, but
I was. I was probably first in mine, I would say,
as told to me by the CEO. I'd been at
a company for close to twenty three years, but because
of my views and my outspokenness, I was told, you know,
they were too problematic, the things I said, even though

(06:13):
they were true, and we all know they're true now,
and I just couldn't assume that position, and therefore couldn't
hold my existing position either, because it was a quote
unquote feeder role for CEO, meaning you know, the succession role.
And so I was offered severance, which I did not accept.
I because severance comes. I was offered a million dollars

(06:34):
in severance, but that comes indisputably with a non disclosure agreement,
and signing a non disclosure agreement to keep me quiet
just felt like more censorship and I would not abide,
and so I very publicly resigned in February of twenty
twenty two with an op ed on Barry Wise's Common
Sense sub deck, exposing the hypocrisy and the censorship and

(06:59):
the lack of inclusiveness, you know, for a company and
a lot of companies are touting all their inclusiveness to today.
We ran a campaign led by me that said, you know,
urged people to use their voices to stand up for
the things they cared about. But apparently that did not
include me, because my view was deemed as an al
right conspiracy theory, despite the fact that it's now true

(07:23):
and we know it's true. I said, it's too early,
and so the reason I wrote the book, the reason
I didn't sign a non disclosure agreement, was so that
I could write the book and so that I could
talk to you, because I agree with you one hundred percent.
This is a really dangerous situation we find ourselves in
for a million reasons, but these a million reasons. But
these well companies are essentially acting as arms of the government,

(07:46):
either directly like Twitter we've seen sort of taking its
cues from the government to banish people which hopefully elon
you know, he's starting to let them back on, or
less directly by just outink folks that go against the
approved narrative issued by the government in left leaning cities

(08:08):
and states at least during COVID and supported and furthered
by the media. I want I wanted to expose it
from the inside. There hasn't been a first person account
of this from the inside of corporate America.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Just just want to say, let me hold you right there.
We're going to continue our conversation with Jennifer Say. The
book is Levi's Unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job,
but gave me my voice.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
This is the Michael Bay Show.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Jennifer Say is our guest. She was the president of
the Levi's brand and on track to be the first
woman to be CEO of Levi Strausen Company. She opposed
the closure of San Francisco's public schools at the height
of the pandemic. She spoke out and spoke up. She said,

(08:59):
that's not right. You know you other people, your kids
are going to private schools, but these public schools need
to be open so the kids can learn. And by
the way, the data is out now and we're only
going to see this more and more as this time trend.
When when this when the tale of this thing continues,
you're seeing that kids that didn't go to school, that's

(09:21):
that that did school from home. We're seeing developmental lags.
We're seeing that children that had to sit behind a
mask Also for the record, speech pathologists are saying that
their business is booming because kids learn through mimicry. And
when they didn't have a teacher to teach them how
to talk, and they couldn't see anybody, that was a problem.

(09:43):
Kids didn't get to socialize. Isn't it funny the same
public education industry cartel that told us that kids shouldn't
be homeschooled because they need socialization, how quickly they turned
that and said, yeah, we don't want to show up
to work, let's close down because of the pandemic. When
Jennifer Say spoke out against that, she found the doors
closed to her at Levi's, and rather than continue on

(10:06):
a very high power, high paying career, she chose to
walk away and write her story. And that is Levi's unbuttoned.
The woke mob took my job, but gave me my
voice when you left. Did you ever regret it?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I have my moments. I don't want to be there.
I couldn't be there and sacrifice my voice and my integrity.
But my life is unrecognizable from what I thought it
would be. Two years ago, I left my home city
of San Francisco, which i'd lived in for thirty three years.

(10:41):
I don't have the hundreds, if not thousands of colleagues
that I've spent time with every day. I've lost many
friends and even some family members, and so I certainly
have my moment of you know, what have I done?
But I know there was no other path forward for me.

(11:04):
This is what I had to do. I couldn't stare
the truth in the face and not speak it, no
matter how many people told me that I couldn't. And
I'll tell you you know a moment that really sort
of lit me up internally, when I was still at Levi's,
was our head of HR saying to me privately that
she agreed with everything I was saying, but I still

(11:26):
couldn't say it. And that is that is you know this,
this is of the problem, And that gets it what
you were talking about in terms of the chilling effects.
People watched what was happening to me publicly on social media.
I was being vilified and demonized as like this, all right,

(11:46):
lunatic who wanted to kill children. I was called terrible, terrible, unemployable, names, racist, eugenesis,
everything you can think of. And so who was going
to join me, even if they also believed that schools
should be open. No one and so you know, as
it pertains to COVID specifically, but so many issues, there
was this manufactured consensus because anyone who disagreed or dissented,

(12:10):
including very reputable, renowned doctors, they were censored and silenced
and vilified. And I just wouldn't allow that. I wouldn't
allow that to silence me. And I do believe in
my heart of hearts, even on my dark days when
I questioned what I've done, I believe that courage begets courage,
and that a cohort will build with time and the

(12:35):
truth will be spoken. That the truth always went out
in the end. I cling tight to that, and I
will not be silent when you spoke about It's just
when you when you spoke out against you.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, let me let me finish it. When you've spoke
out against the closing of the San Francisco Public schools,
how did you do that and what was your argument?

Speaker 2 (12:59):
So I started doing it on social media. I started
in the sort of Facebook realm, but ended up arguing
with friends and family, so I hopped over to Twitter.
I had very few followers at the time, but it
built over time. I cited data. I read the data
that kids were very unlikely to have adverse out outcomes,

(13:21):
they were less likely to spread it than adults. I
read the CDC's pre pandemic playbook, which said schools should
never be closed for more than a few weeks, even
with fatality rates much much higher than COVID. I mean,
I clicked every link to read the actual data sets,
not just the you know, the headlines. And then eventually

(13:42):
I began to write op eds and I led rallies
in San Francisco in the fall and winter of twenty
twenty and I appeared on local news, and I should
mention I never identified myself as the president of Levi's.
I was just a mom of four, so I was
very clear I was not speaking on behalf of the company. Certainly,

(14:03):
it's easy enough to find out. All you had to
do was, you know, google me. But I didn't identify
myself as such in my social media profiles. And eventually
I was invited on Fox News in the spring of
twenty twenty one, on Laura Ingram's show, and that really
just incensed the mob, you know, employees as well as

(14:24):
the social media mob. And while many folks even internally agreed.
There was nothing I said at that point that they
disagreed with. Schools had been closed for over a year.
At this point, the frustration was growing. My crime was
saying it to her. So now I was, you know,
there was this guilt by association. I had said it
to somebody they found unacceptable and you know, really really disagreeable,

(14:48):
and that made me evil.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
And how did they address the fact that you, as
an individual had made this statement and they didn't like it.
What was their means of of letting you know their displeasure?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Peers were assigned. I got the unfortunate assignment to speak
to me privately. That started in the fall of twenty
twenty and continued for another year and a half. The
message delivered by the head of corporate communications, human resources,
as well as legal and ultimately my boss, the CEO,
even a board member, was when you speak, you speak

(15:25):
on behalf of the company. So you need to be
cognizant and you really need to stop doing this. And
my answer was I don't. I'm a citizen. I don't
check those rights at the door just because I work here.
One might argue, in such a visible position of influence
that I need to be more careful. I reject that,

(15:47):
you know. And frankly, if somebody like me, a well liked,
you know, beloved employee with influence can be ousted for
saying a true thing, then we're all at risk. And
do we believe that every employee needs to hold their
tongue and not stand up for what they believe in,
not say what they think outside of work just because.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Hold on, John, let me interrupt you, because I have
about a minute and a half and I have I
want to pursue two lines of questions here. The first
one is, well, let me I tell you what. The
second one, which we'll get to in the next segment,
is do that how have they reacted when officials within
the company have ever had an opinion on anything else

(16:29):
in the past, And I'll get to that. But the
first one is sort of ask folks to consider for
a moment. It's not a questions to statement. Wouldn't you
like to know what people who are professionally very successful
feel about issues of the day? Lord knows every Hollywood actor,

(16:50):
every musician, every influencer. We know Kim Kardashian's opinion on everything,
and Kanye West and well not anymore. But every every
famous person, person's opinion is blasted at us daily. And
that's perfectly fine until that opinion runs contrary to the
woke mob. And that is the reason the book is

(17:14):
called Levi's Unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job, but
gave me my voice. Now, folks, we're going to continue
our conversation with Jennifer Say. This is longer than we
generally devote to an interview, but it's because we don't
get many folks who are this high up in major
American corporations, especially retailers who are the worst about this

(17:36):
that they're so afraid of the woke mob because they're
so afraid of being boycotted. And ail and gas company
can say, oh hell, we can sell our all to
you don't want to buy it, We'll sell it to Europe.
But retailers are so scared of the left, and especially
when you sell products to young people. Young people are
off and liberal for her. For us to have this
opportunity is very special and we're going to make the
most of it. We'll continue our conversation with Jennifer Say.

(17:56):
Coming up to Michael Barry Show. We are talking to
Jennifer Say. She is the former president of the Levi's brand.
She was on track to become the first woman CEO
of Levi Straussing Company and CEO of Levi Strausing Company.
That's a big job. That's not the sort of thing
somebody throws away lightly. But when she spoke out against

(18:18):
the closing of the San Francisco Public schools, the company
said no, no, no, no, no, no no. The woke mob
says that we have to close the schools and wear
the mask and get the vacs and it's COVID and
we're all who cares if the kids ever go to
school again. And for her to have an independent opinion,
whatever that opinion may be, whether you agree with her

(18:39):
opinion or not, that was unacceptable to the company, and
they made life miserable for her. And they offered her
a chance to leave and sign a non disclosure and
not tell her story, and she said, no, I'm not
going to sign a non disclosure. I'm going to tell
the world what's going on. Because bigger than COVID, which
will come and go, how the woke mob, how they

(19:02):
keep control of people, how they manage to silence dissent.
You will think and say what we tell you to
think and say it's very Orwellian, Jennifer. We talked about
you speaking out as a person and why that's important
whatever your job may be. But what does Levi's have
or did they have? Did the corporation levi Ostrausen Company

(19:24):
have a policy on employees speaking out on issues unrelated
to blue jeans?

Speaker 2 (19:33):
No, I never signed anything. There was no policy about
what you could or couldn't say on social media, about
what protests you could attend or not attend. And I
have been outspoken about politics, and I should be clear
I came from the left. I would now call myself,
you know, an independent voter or unaffiliated. But I had

(19:56):
been very outspoken and when those the were considered acceptable
because they were of the left, that was fine. I
could talk about candidates, I could talk about causes, that
was fine. So this is clearly a case of viewpoint discrimination.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Well, I let that hang in the air for a moment,
not because I'm surprised, but because I want people to understand.
You're allowed to speak out if you're the president of Levi's,
as long as what you're speaking out about is exactly
what every other major corporate executive says, and may or

(20:39):
may not believe that is a sense of control, that
is a scarecrow effect. You had to go What did
the people within the company that were your friends, allies, employees, bosses, colleagues.
What was their reaction to what happened to you?

Speaker 2 (21:02):
I had no allies at the end. And it's important
to note that having been there for twenty two and
a half years, I had a lot of friends across
the decades. But you know, as I continued to speak out,
I really had no supporters. People tried to distance themselves
from me. A few said, you know, why are you

(21:22):
doing this? It's not really worth it. What are you doing?
And so I have no contact really with almost anyone.
Every once in a while I get a little private
DM saying I hope you're okay from one or two.
But really I had no support. I mean, I think
they were stunned that I did what I did, because
here's the thing, I broke the pact. You know, you're

(21:48):
this whole thing around well capitalism. It's all a lie,
and as you mentioned, it's an attempt to profit off
of millennial and gen z views and their activism. But
it's a very cinem full thing. I think a lot
of the leaders don't even agree with some of these views,
but it provides them cover for the fact that they
really just are as greedy as they've always been. But

(22:11):
that's unacceptable now. It used to be greed was good.
No longer. Now you have to sort of pretend to
be this altruist, which we saw happen with Sam Brankman Freed.
He eventually got caught because the business fell apart, but
he wrapped himself in this cloak of altruism and no
and avoided any scrutiny in doing so. I think that's
what corporate executives are doing. More broadly, if I threatened

(22:35):
to expose that that it would beyond their wildest imagination
that I wouldn't accept the million dollars. Every single other
person would accept the money, stay quiet, and walk away.
So I think it's just astonishing to them that that
for me was not the key driver. The driver for
me was to keep my voice. I don't know why
it was surprising. I'd made that very clear in the

(22:56):
final two years of the company, and really throughout my
twenty two and a half years the company. But you know,
I think it was unthinkable that somebody would do this,
give up money to keep their voice.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Jennifer Say is her name. It's spelled se Y. She's
on Twitter if you choose to follow her there at
Jennifer Say, the book is Levi's unbuttoned. The woke mob
took my job, but gave me my voice. What would
you say to young people who are within the corporate world,

(23:30):
which is very different than working for a small employer,
an independent business, you know, different things. What would you
say to people who are coming up through the ranks
of the corporate world who still want to be true
to their beliefs. I'm not saying they want to hold
a Trump or a Dysantis rally, you know, on the
third floor in the lobby where all the employees are.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
I'm saying just.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
People who say, when I want to be able to
express myself on Facebook, I want to be able to
worship openly. I want to be able to have my
own opinions. What would you say as to how to
handle that, how to set expectations, how to defend oneself
when you're.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Called hr Well, first off, I would say do it.
The only thing that protects free speech is more speech.
That's it. And if everybody does it, they can't cancel us.
All right, we can't all be canceled. When you stand alone.
It's easy to banish one person. But if the sixty

(24:28):
three percent of people who say they can't they feel
they can't say what they really think in the workplace
or in the world, if they did it, that's a majority.
So that's the first point is you have to do it,
and I agree with you. You don't need to do
it at work. You know you don't need to do
it in your cube. You should be working at work anyway.

(24:49):
But in your life, in your free time, you have
every right as a citizen to say what you think,
to tend protests, post what you think. Do you know,
stand behind your beliefs. So the first step is really
have to do it, And that's really what the book
is about. It's an exhortation in a sense to call

(25:09):
people to stand up and use their voices. Do not
be afraid. You cannot be afraid. Protect your neighbor, protect
your friend, even if you disagree with them, protect their
right to speak up and use their voice, because we
will all lose that opportunity.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Jennifer hold Rut there.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Hold right there.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
The book is Levi's unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job,
but gave me my voice. We'll hear more of that
voice coming up.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
That did a risk me or take me to Texas?
So talking ready to get out of this state. I
think Michael Barry robs Michael I like.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Jennifer Say is our guest. She was the president of
the Levi's brand and was on track to be the
CEO of lev Ostrauss and Company when she chose to
leave rather than take a payout because she was being
ousted because she dared do the most awful thing imaginable
for an employee. She as an individual and a mother

(26:04):
of four, spoke out when the San Francisco school district
decided to close classes during COVID, saying that this was
bad for kids. And you know, by the way, it's
really bad for poor kids. That's who suffered the most.
That's who the data now shows suffered the most. Because
the kids of means they had tutors who come to

(26:25):
their house, They had computers with a big screen on it,
They had in many cases a stay at home mom
or someone at home who could help them get online
or parents that are two parents, which already gives you
an advantage, who were making sure that they're on top
of their kid being on the zoom class. Imagine the

(26:47):
kid that lives in an apartment section eight apartment, single mom.
She's not there, and you can go down the trail
from who might be there and the bad influences. A
lot of kids go to school with the hope of
just getting away from a bad home life. So she's
peaking up for more than just her kids here. And
we now know all the data tells us, and anyone

(27:10):
who's objective now says closing the schools was a huge,
huge mistake, in fact, so interesting. Randy Winingarden, the head
of the Teachers Union, went to Ukraine at the request
of the Biden administration and declared that America needed to
get involved to stop Russian missiles landing in Ukraine because

(27:30):
the schools are closed and kids needed to go to school.
She didn't care if American kids went to school. Jennifer
Say wrote the book. Jennifer Say wrote the book Levi's Unbuttoned.
The woke mob took my job but gave me my voice. Jennifer,
what do you want people to take from this, What
would be the change that you will have brought into

(27:52):
the world as a result of your efforts to write this.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
I want people to find the courage to speak up
and challenge things that are not true. State their beliefs
vociferously in your everyday life. You don't have to do
what I did. You don't have to blow up your
whole life, but challenge the narrative if you disagree with it.
If your school, if you're a parent in a school

(28:16):
that still doesn't do in person parent teacher conferences, don't
accept it. Tell the principle. Tell them that's not okay.
You know, do something in your life each day, because
when you don't speak up, they think we're all fine
with it, and that is how they manufacture this consensus.
But it's not real, and it means we're accepting dangerous lives.

(28:37):
That's really my goal is to just encourage people to
speak up in their everyday lives.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
You set something in the last segment and I'm going
to bring up again, and that is to take away
from this discussion, and that is the answer to free
speech is more free speech. When people choose to silence themselves,
the government doesn't need to do it. It's the equivalent
of people telling me, well, I'm not going to vote

(29:06):
because there's going to be cheating. Well, if you don't
bother to vote, they don't even need to cheat, in
which case you're self defeating. And when people choose to
censor themselves, which many, many, many people do. I have
people who im They'll say, you know, I'd like to
speak out about this, but I can't. How come, Well,
I'd get fired. Prove it, make them fire. You do

(29:29):
what is necessary, speak out. And I love that you
are telling this story because there are a lot of
other people with stories similar to yours, but they don't
have the Levi's brand name. It's it's ubiquitous, It's it's
in every household. I grew up with the Uh what
were mine? The three O eights?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
What were what?

Speaker 1 (29:49):
What would a mine have been? Jennifer, I think Bravo ones.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
One. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna say. It had to
be a frival one.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Uh are you wearing Levi's jeans right now, Jennifer On,
You're wearing the five Zho ones.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
I am.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Tell me what was the saddest part about getting fired
from a I mean a purely self indulgent perspective, What
would have been the coolest thing about being CEO of
Levi Ostraussen Company. And I don't want to hear all
the you know, I don't want to hear the high
minded stuff. I want to know, like did you have
your own bathroom in the office? Like what does the
CEUO of lev Ostrauss Company have that you didn't have.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
I don't care about that bathroom stuff. I think he
did have a bathroom. I'm not totally sure. I just
think it would have been so cool to have come
up from the very bottom. You know, I started as
a marketing assistants. And to your point in your opener,
it's not an easy journey for a woman. It's part
of what I write about in the book. It's not

(30:50):
all about my last two years. It's about the sexism
in corporate America, certainly in the nineties and two thousands
when I came up. But it persists today and you
force yourself to be better and you force yourself to
push through it. I think so that I think that
would have been pretty cool to have kind of risen
from the ground up. But Michael would be to create

(31:12):
a truly inclusive environment you know, all viewpoints real inclusivity,
not just the kind folks are virtue signaling about today,
which also matters. I think, you know, gender and racial
diversity matter. If you want to kind of be able
to reflect the views of your consumers, you know, you
want kind of lots of different viewpoints. What I used

(31:33):
to always say in leading my team is great ideas
can come from everywhere, and I want to hear your ideas.
And that is the other issue with all of the
silencing and censorship, is it limits innovation. I think it
ultimately will lead to bad business results, you know, and
I wanted to I would have wanted to create an

(31:55):
environment where all voices were heard.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
You know, this is happening all day, every day. This
is happening, and it's destroying careers. You know, we had
a number of nurses on who lost their jobs because
they wouldn't take the JAB that turned out not to
be a vaccine at all. And the thing about it
was it wasn't just that this was a job and

(32:22):
they go get another one. This is their passion, this
is their ministry. You don't get into nursing for any
reason other than you want to help people and heal
people and comfort people. And it broke my heart to
talk to these people to see how devastated they were
by all of this. I don't know if you were
devastated or disappointed. I don't know where it left you emotionally.

(32:46):
But this is the sort of thing that you never forget.
You know, you don't end up the president of the
Levi's brand and on track to be the CEO of
Levi Strauss and Company unless you're highly committed to your
work and you make a lot lot of sacrifices. I
know my wife was a professional for a number of years.
She's still on the board of a fortune five hundred company.
And that takes travel and time away from the family,

(33:10):
and it takes time away from you know, an evening
in front of a television or an evening in front
of a book, and it's it's it's a struggle. And
then and then to have it all taken away from
you because you have to speak your conscience. Boy, that's
a tough thing. I'm out of time, Jennifer say, thanks
for being our guest. I really appreciate it. The book
is Levi Is Unbuttoned. The woke mob took my job,

(33:32):
but gave me my voice and more important than telling
your story here, thank you for reducing this to writing
so that this story is documented and people can share
it and read it and learn from it. That's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Thank you so much for having me. I really loved
our conversation, My pleasure, my dear.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
All right, guys, go get it, go read it, and
then put it to action. Get engaged, get on the
field of life. Don't be a bystander.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Light light