It's A Saturday Morning Bonus Podcast For 03-08-25

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Michael Berry Show. Sage Steele was co host of
ESPN Sports Center. Beautiful woman. I had such a big
crush on her, still do she was. She was attacked
by The Wall Street, by The Wall Street, by Walt
Disney Company for speaking out against the company's COVID maxine

(00:21):
man COVID vaccine mandate. As you probably know, ESPN is
owned by Disney, and she felt it was wrong to
require people to get the clock shot, and so she
sued them when they did all this, and she sued Disney.
She sued ESPN, and she refused to be censored. She

(00:47):
would end up leaving the company to exercise her First
Amendment rights. This is courage, this is fearlessness. And Praguer,
you that does some great work on stuff like this.
It's for Dennis Prager. Prager and then you for University Preger.
You CEO, Marisa, I think it's Stripe. I'm not positive
how you pronounce her last name. She sat down with

(01:07):
Sage Steele to talk about how you find the Street
to take on one of the most powerful companies, Disney,
and what she learned from it and what her future
plans are. You know, when we talk about black history, month,
or all the various things where we say young people
need heroes that.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Look like them.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, if you're so determined that a hero be black,
here's one. Here's one I would like. I'd like her
to get some praise. Hey, young folks, whether you be
black or not. Hey, young people, whether you be a
girl or not. Here's somebody look up to. Here's somebody brave.
Here's somebody who didn't sell out. Here's somebody who took

(01:47):
on a big corporation to bring about a change. Here's
the kind of people you want to be like, Be
like Sage.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Sage Steele.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
Let's have the conversation we had in the green room
right here on the whole world.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Buckle up, bussell.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
So for those who are.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
Living under a rock and don't know about your story,
I want to just get right into it. And I
actually think it's going to be so fascinating to walk
through your story now several years later, where you can
really talk about everything. There's another little Sage Steal somewhere
out there who is probably going through what you have
gone through and has no guidance, has little courage, and

(02:25):
doesn't really have a role model to follow. To note
that things will be okay, and boy, you are okay.
You are okay, and so I want the little sage
steal and I'm sure there are both women and men
to hear what you went through and how you came
out of it an absolute warrior.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh gosh. First of all, thank you and thank you
for inviting me. Conversations are what life is about for
me today and always it's always what it's been like.
But I was never really allowed to, you know, and
you work on the live news shows and Sports Center
for all those years and it's like I gotta go, go, go,
go go, And so it's been awesome to be able

(03:02):
to do it on my own show, and to be
able to do this with you, like I never thought
to be allowed to. This is a big deal. To
be able to actually talk forget about cameras and just
go It was a I ended up so crazy. How
did this shy kid believe it or not? And I
still feel that way sometimes I get shy and I
have to like flip the switch. How did this shy

(03:23):
kid who just wanted to talk about sports for a
living and tell stories of great athletes and their why
Sue Walt the Walt Disney company and ESPN to stand
up for her freedom of speech and First Amendment rights, Like,
I don't know how that happened. God, I don't percent.
God I am learning now the why, and I think

(03:44):
that's been really important in the last I've been gone
from ESPN for like fifteen sixteen months after sixteen and
a half years there, which was my ultimate dream when
I was a little girl to work there, and I
did it, and I did it at the highest level,
and I'm literally so grateful for every moment there. I
wouldn't change any of it. But I thought, just innocently,

(04:05):
you know, gave my opinion on the COVID vaccine mandate,
not the vaccine itself, but being forced to get the
shot to keep my job. This is in September October
of twenty twenty one, so it's been three years since
I said what I said and then got punished for it.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
What was the punishment when you said, Well, first of all,
what did you say exactly?

Speaker 3 (04:29):
I'm sure you've memorized it.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I kind of have. I was on a podcast with
Jay Cutler for the non sports fans out there, the
former Bears and Broncos quarterback we would retired and started
a new podcast, and his publicist had said, Hey, he's
done two shows. He wants to have a woman come
on with Jay. I was like, sure. I talked about
him a lot on Sports Center, did a bunch of
highlights for low lights of his and Cheryl come on.

(04:52):
Seems like a nice guy, and he was prepared. He
did his homework on things that I had spoken about
in the past that maybe weren't a big deal then,
but we're more so in twenty twenty one, and I
had literally just come from getting the vaccine that I
had to get to keep my job, and I was
devastated that I was forced to do something to my

(05:13):
body that I didn't want to. And so I was
running hot and in hindsight, like I literally came from
getting the shot that I cried during to running home,
flip up my laptop and open it up and get
on a zoom and I had a short sleeve shirt
on with a band aid on my shoulder and literally
didn't even really remember realize it because I was in

(05:35):
a rush. He's like, what's that band aid? Oh, he
asked you during the show, what's the band aid for? Well,
I got my shot today. I didn't want to do it.
I work for a company that mandates it, and I
had until September thirtieth to get it done or I'm out.
I respect everyone's decision, I really do, but to mandate
it is sick. And then what I was like, I

(06:01):
just kind of laughed because I thought, uh, oh, like
I was hot, I was angry. I was pissed off
that I had been forced to do this, and so
I was like, well, I just came back from getting
my shot. I had to get to keep my job,
and I said, I think it's sick and scary for
any employer in mine happens to be Disney to force

(06:22):
somebody to do something to their body that they don't want.
But I have a job that I love and a
job that I need, frankly, and I had no choice
and I'm complying. That's what I said, sick and scary
about the Disney mandate. And so when the podcast hit
the first week of October twenty twenty one, you know,

(06:43):
I started to get texts and phone calls from bosses
and my agent at the time, and you know, my boss,
who was second in command at ESPN at the time,
was like, did you get permission to do this. I'm like, no,
I mean, no one gets permission. Stephen A. Smith is
eight hundred podcasts and shows to talk about your body. Well,

(07:03):
permission to do a podcast, any interview without asking them first, Okay,
you have to ask to breathe there, And that was
part of the official rules, but none of us really
followed them. Like all that. You know, I was on
a podcast with the former quarterback I worked Inesapan. It
made sense, but we talked about social issues. Other people
were allowed to do whatever they wanted, and I didn't

(07:24):
even think about it because everybody just did their thing
and it got big quickly. And basically it was that
I had criticized my employer and I wasn't allowed to
do that. And so the punishment answer your question was
to first of all, publicly apologize. I had to issue
a written statement, which they then followed up with a

(07:46):
statement of their own. So I was apologizing for criticizing
the company. I couldn't say the word Disney. I could
not say Disney. I had to say the company. That
was a mandate. And then I apologized for putting them
in a tough position, I guess by talking about the shot.
And then They followed up with a statement of you know, well,
while we respect everyone's opinions, we don't we don't we're

(08:10):
gonna shot her down. And so I got suspended. They
don't like to use that word, but it was suspended
with pay, but suspended, taken off the air for almost
two weeks. And you know, at that time I would
have been content, I guess with just that. The problem
is the punishment continued and assignments were taken away from me,

(08:31):
and I thought, okay, I'm going to publicly apologize. I
think this is wrong, but I'm gonna do it because
I was scared and I was told that if I
don't apologize, then I will be fired. So of course,
as a I mean, I'm divorced and I'm one hundred
percent financially responsible for everyone in my family, even the

(08:52):
one I'm not married to anymore. Like, the pressure was
immense and I was scared to death.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, and it's your dream job job, you worked your back.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Workmre bought off for all those years, thirty years and
so but the thought of being fired it was real,
and I said, okay, I'll do whatever it takes. It
should be apology, even though I disagreed on it, and
then sat out for twelve days whatever it was, and
then came back to work and was told, you know

(09:22):
how many people hated me, and I need to call
certain members of my team and coworkers to apologize for
other things I had said too in that podcast about
women being more responsible for what we wear in professional settings,
and that's just my opinion and my experience working in
men's locker rooms for twenty five years. So that's the
reason why everybody hated me at the company, according to bosses.

(09:44):
And then of course defying being defiant by speaking out
against the company, even though I followed their shop policy.
So when they kept taking assignments away though, that's where
it broke me because I've worked years to earn them
and to host the Rose Parade in Pasadena every January,
or to host the New York City Marathon, or some

(10:05):
of the pieces I've been working on for my new
streaming show that were incredible pieces of human interest with
athletes who opened up and shared their stories and tears
with me, and I was so honored, and then they
stopped promoting it, and that is when I couldn't believe it.
The reason I sued, though, is because I thought that
was unfair willing to overlook it when I saw them

(10:28):
allowing my peers, fellow on air teammates to speak their
mind about social political issues, not just privately or on
separate podcasts, but on ESPN airwaves, to talk about roversus
Wade being overturned on an NBA show, or having a
moment of silence for the alleged don't say gay rules

(10:50):
in Florida during women's college basketball.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Tournament, which was never said in the bill.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
If they took the time to read it and do
their homework, people would have probably still made up the
line because it worked and they get away with it.
But it's one thing to do it on the side,
which is what I did. I thought that was okay
to give my opinion on a shot that I complied with.
It's another thing to say these things on ESPN airwaves,

(11:17):
on a sports channel that has nothing to do with
Roe versus Wade or don't Say Gay. The hypocrisy of
that is what made me say enough and call an attorney.
My attorney who's such a dear friend now, Brian Friedman,
who has saved a lot of us who have been
canceled by our networks. And I'll say that to make

(11:39):
that decision to pull the trigger and foul a lawsuit
was one of the scariest moments of my life.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
But I knew.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I knew I had to because I'd been silent and
scared for so long, and I knew that enough was enough.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
Where do you get those inner voices from. There's this
thing that we say as educators that the things that
are spoken to you when you were a child become
your inner voices when you become a grown up, and
oftentimes there are the things that are going to build
you or give you courage.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
My faith has grown so much over the last i'd
say six years, you know, on a personal level, and
I had to make the decision to leave my marriage.
And I've been married for twenty years almost to the day,
twenty seven years total, first boyfriend I ever had, Wow,

(12:29):
that's all I knew. Three beautiful kids. So in order
to get there, I had to dive deep on my faith,
even though it was a scary decision. Obviously, I'm Catholic,
like you don't do that, and I'm not a quitter,
so like you don't, you don't get divorced, so that
happened to be much more important than the professional stuff.
But when I had dug deep on my faith with

(12:50):
that and talked to my priest and talk to people
I really trusted, and then I learned to trust myself,
and those voices that I know for me were spiritual.
I'm like, if I could get through that, then I
can do this, and so I need to continue to
dive deeper. And I really felt like I got so

(13:11):
many signs in both situations personally and professionally to make
the decisions that I made. I also remember being on
the floor literally because when I got suspended for speaking up,
primarily about the vaccine mandate, I'm sitting at home and
I then got really, really, really really sick with COVID,

(13:35):
the thing that the shot was supposed to prevent me
from getting. I was literally on the verge of driving
myself to the hospital. I was not good. And then
these headlines kept coming out about you know, all the
people were making up lies to become part of the
story of how terrible of a person I am, and
one headline in particular just got me and broke me.

(13:56):
For some reason. I was on the ground because I
didn't have the energy to get back up, and my
parents had driven up from Pennsylvania because I knew I
was scared and alone and sick and they shouldn't have come.
My dad has two kinds of cancer and this is
twenty twenty one and COVID and you're not supposed to
be around. And it's proof that when you know, as
parents would do whatever it takes. And so they came

(14:18):
and got their fifty year old daughter up off the
floor and was like, you're not going to let this
break you. So my parents, who've been through so much
just to you know, survive as an intercial couple in
the early nineteen seventies, like so much bigger than what
I've been through. When I saw them walk in and
help me, and then thinking about what they'd been through,

(14:42):
and finally thinking about the prayer that my dad had
just thrilled unto us as kids, I knew I had
to do this and that prayer. He's a nineteen seventy
West Point graduate, and as kids, I have two younger brothers.
He met his memory part of the Cadet prayer, and
that part is helped me to choose the harder right

(15:06):
instead of the easier wrong, and to never be content
with a half truth when the whole truth can be one,
so the harder right. I was so annoyed that I
knew what the heart of right was because I knew
I couldn't be silent like no more. I've been silent
in my whole life and so afraid to stand up,

(15:28):
afraid for good reason. Look what happened when I was
just being myself. God forbid. You can be yourself in
every other way. You can be a girl today, a
boy tomorrow, and a cat on Thursday. Right, that's fine,
But I couldn't be a conservative with I guess my
gender and my skin color. So I knew what the
heart of right was, and that I you know, the

(15:48):
second half of that prayer. I could never be content
if I was only telling the half truth, because the
whole truth was right here. So that stupid prayer that
he made me memorize, stupid like was right before my eyes.
And I preached that to my kids too. So if
I didn't follow that at my lowest, most vulnerable point,
when my little sports world was watching and laughing because

(16:13):
I'd been silenced, which is what they wanted, then shame
on me. And I'm a hypocrite. So that faith that
came with all the things, and in particular that prayer
that had got me through so much when I was
thinking about getting divorced, then I knew I would have
to forever be quiet, and I could not do that.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
There is something that you said that keeps ringing in
my head, and that was you made a comment while
you were working for ESPN about how women were more
were supposed to focus more on what they wear than
what they say.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
And they get upset that you said.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
That, Yet they wanted to control you and make sure
that you don't say what they don't want you to say.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
So how did your colleagues and friends from twenty plus
years of work react.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
To you speaking out? The silence was deafening.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
They didn't call you in secret and say stage we're
behind you, we get it. No, we're sorry, We're sorry
this is happening to you. We can't say anything publicly,
but we're going to put a big hat on and
come and support you. There wasn't even support behind the scenes.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
No, I will admit that that part is still hard,
you know, especially some of the young women who came
after me. At IDIOESPN, and you know, i'd been there
a few years, and I really it was important to
me to welcome them because I had not felt welcomed
when I started in two thousand and seven, a different

(17:41):
era completely all together. And I had gone about for
some of those women when they were going through some
things or just had questions, and so for them to
I never expected anybody to publicly support me because I
know what comes with that. That is scary and it
could be career suicide. So I never expected that it
was the human level. It was just that human part

(18:04):
of like just we're friends and just you see that
I'm broken right now, just to reach out and just
you know. And so to not have that part that
that changed me hardened me for a little bit. And
now I'm glad because gosh, my circle is a lot
smaller and healthier. And I needed that because it was

(18:26):
probably too big because I've always been the I just
try to do too much. I'm still working on that,
but like such a pleaser in every way, and I
want to make sure. I wanted to make sure these
other young women didn't feel the way I did coming
in as a young mother when I started at ESPN.
My kids were eleven months old, two and four, and
this is an O seven, this is you know, it
was still very much a boys club. And then the girls,

(18:48):
the women who were there were not the nicest, that's
for damn sure. So I just never wanted others to
feel that way. And then before I knew it, I
was one of the veterans, and so I was like,
let me help them, and then I went to bat
for a lot of them, and then silence. I wouldn't
ever change it, though, I will continue to go to
bat for any young woman or man, because I know

(19:10):
what it feels like when no one does that for
you when you need it, when you're not asking for something,
but you're just scared, because this is an ugly industry,
you know. So I promise you I have no regrets.
There's no bitterness at all from those women who chose
to stay silent and men. My best friends were men silent.
But that's because they're afraid. And I know that it

(19:34):
takes a lot to push through that fear. So I
respect it. But I also I'm like, okay, onward then,
you know, and I'm glad. And it also taught me
how few people do have strength, and again I get it,
but I know now that I need to be around

(19:54):
like minded people, not necessarily people who are going to go,
you know, drop bombs and see their company, you know,
especially when you're still working there, which is another thing
was kind of crazy and unique about my situation. But
I can't. Oh, I can't handle weakness. I can't, you know.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
It's the other thing is being around real people who
want to live a real life. And so there are
two components to that. One is these people are not real,
they're not authentic. The friendship is not real and authentic
because when my friends hurt, I hurt. But the other
part of it is that they are not living a
real life. I mean, they're controlled. They can't say what

(20:33):
they know, they have to live in fear, and that
that must be very heavy for them as well.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
I know it is because it was for me, and
I felt like I didn't have a choice for a
long time either because of the financial obligations.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
I told you, well, they'll give you the lollipop and
just take it away, and so you're like, give it
back to me, and they're like, well, we'll give it
back to you if if right it is.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
The gold and handcuffs. In many ways, and especially when
you've this is your childhood dream and you've worked your
whole life, it takes a long time. It used to
take a long time to really build to get there,
especially once you achieved that childhood dream, like are you
going to throw it away over this or that? So
I understand more than anyone, but at the end of
the day, you know, for a while, and even with

(21:16):
my decision to take the vaccine to get the shot,
which I still really struggle with, I felt like I caved.
I really am. I've forgiven myself because I had to
do what I had to do at that moment to
survive three years ago, a very different time than now, certainly,
and companies have stopped. It's magic, right, how all of
a sudden, nobody's forcing it and it just goes away, like, oh,

(21:37):
I just I want to you know.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
And by the way, those who are on the other
side of it, do not look at you with this
thing that you need to carry some sort of shame, right,
And everybody should just make their own decisions.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
That's all we wanted.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
So I said to macciny, make your own decision. And
if you made the decision and you changed your mind.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
That's okay too, it is it was more for me,
such a principled in so many ways. But again there's
there's fear, and I literally didn't know what I was
gonna do. So when people say and thank you and
I'm better now it's been three years. But when people
say to me, you had a choice and you chose
to do it, they're right. I did make that choice,

(22:18):
which is why I understand the fear. But I also
know this, it will eat you up. The fear will
eat you up, and the silencing, at least in my experience,
it'll eat you up. And that's kind of what it did.
So when I made the decision to speak up, I
threw it all away. I had an incredible contract at

(22:42):
ESPN and a relatively speaking in that way, easy life
with a good schedule, high pressure, a lot of stress,
all the things. But like, I did throw it all away,
and I did not have an idea where my next
paycheck was coming from. And I'm still working on that.
So I get the fear thing, but I also I'm like, okay,

(23:04):
that's on you then, because you're never gonna there will
never be a perfect time to take that leap and
to really take a chance on yourself and just go
for it. And without my faith full circle, without my faith,
I would never have been able to do it. And
I have seen Marsa that like the more I have

(23:24):
let go of control, especially in the last like six months,
the beautiful things that are happening are insane, and I
am so grateful. I get emotional. I live down in
South Florida now, and I sold my house in Connecticut
and sold everything in it, like literally everything, put some
stuff in storage, and got in my little car and
drove twenty three hours down here to start a new

(23:46):
life by myself. And it was scary, but like I
shudder at the thought of what had happened if I
had stayed comfortable and stayed fearful, and with good reason
to stay comfortable and to just keep it all per fit.
Never a good time. And I'm so passionate now about
sharing that and how you can push through fear even

(24:08):
when you're responsible for an entire family, And I just
I'm so grateful what if I hadn't. And then I'm
preaching to my kids to take chances and to believe
in themselves. And then I'm going to sit quiet, total hypocrite.
So now I'm just winging it and that's kind of fun.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Well, I mean, it is such an amazing feeling to
feel free, right, it's worth more than any money. You
read the Bible of the Old Testament. You talk about
leaving your Egypt, right, that was your Egypt. And in
Egypt things were comfortable and you know there was food,
and you know what's going to happen tomorrow. But then
when you have the courage to get over it and
just keep going and listen to God and listen and

(24:47):
tap into yourself, that is really the meaning of everything
we were chatting earlier, where I told you I don't
work out enough and I don't eat that healthy, and
what I think sustains me well, want to sleep.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
I think it's really important. But more than anything, I
think it's meaning. Meaning. Meaning is my medicine.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
And I think that when you are able to live
a free life, you can truly live a meaningful life
because you can drop into what God really wants you
to do.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
And I really do believe that.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
You're on the journey to do what you're meant to do.
I've been watching what you've been doing over the last
few months, last few years, and just the transformation that
has happened in your personal life and in your career
is so worth sharing. And before we walked in here,

(25:35):
I just in full disclosure, I kind of encouraged you
to speak about what happened several years ago.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
And you know, you're like, oh, well, what happened to ESPN.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
It was a long time ago, and I've been on
so many shows and I've talked about this, and people
may know about it anyway, it's a thing of the past.
And you know, my point is, no, it is not
a thing of the past what you went through a
few years ago. People are going through every day right now.
And also the way you look what you've gone through
a few years ago will be viewed by you a
little differently now because you have been touched in so

(26:09):
many ways. Your heart has expanded, your mind has expanded,
your visibility has expanded. That the new perspective that you
have now about what you went through a few years
ago is a whole other level.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
You're right, and I needed that encouragement from you. My
fear and continue to speak about it has literally only
been because my fear of being perceived as oh she
wants sympathy or woe is me? And uh yeah, and
that's why I'm like, no, no, no, that's not me.
That's not what it is.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, And you know, like I.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Literally just don't want anyone else to live in fear
for so long. And I want The reason I filed
the damn lawsuit is because I want these companies to
know that we will know longer accept it because that's
what they bank on. Yeah, and it's worked. It's worked
incredibly well to just do what they said to me,

(27:03):
like be quiet, say this, do this, sign this or else,
and there's reason for us to listen, but absolutely not.
And the strength that has come from that, I mean,
I will say, I think that's probably when I look
back on the experience itself, from the moment I got
suspended to the moment I settled with ESPN Disney with

(27:26):
twenty two months. So once I got back from suspension,
I mean I was on the air for twenty two months,
sixteen months with an act of lawsuit against the very
company whose tea had to go there every day, every day,
every single day. So I think if I look back,
because when you're in it, you're just like Oh, that's
probably what I'm most proud of, because I felt sick

(27:49):
to my stomach every day for twenty two months, and
especially the sixteen months once I filed the lawsuit, and
to walk back in there the next day after it
had hit that I'm suing Disney fan, like nobody does
usually wait to see somebody after you're gone, but I couldn't.
I didn't have that luxury. It had to be kind
of now or never. So I think you would like

(28:10):
this though, because when my parents came and lifted me
off the ground, and like all the the day I
went back to work, my best friend was there, Tiffany,
who was also my makeup barist, who had a lot
to fix that day and every day since. And she
was there, and my mom and dad were there, and
my dad, who was a former football player at Army,

(28:31):
went back to his football mode. He's like, okay, girls,
huddle up, and I'm getting ready to walk out the
door to drive to work to go back on Sports
Center for the first time, and he, you know, words
of encouragement, and then he said, we're going to say
a prayer. And it wasn't the kid at prayer because
we already said that one hundred times right, and i'd
already you know I'm doing the hard to write by
going back into work and not just running away saying

(28:52):
I need some time. It was Saint Michael the archangel
And so for any Christians or Catholics out there, that's
I prayer that we say at the end of Mass,
and it's basically protecting you. Putting it, I've envisioned it
as a protective bubble that I put around that God
put around me to be able to walk into any

(29:13):
scenario and protect you from the wickedness and snares of
the double. And so from that moment on, when I
walked out the door shaking Tiffany threatening me to not
cry because she made my face look much better to
the day I left, I felt protected. And so every
day I would drive to work, and they lived in

(29:34):
Pennsylvania at the time. My parents said I'd call them
when I pulled into the parking lot and I'm putting
my mess hare on before I walked in those doors,
and we would be on speak her phone and say
that prayer to protect me when I walked in. So
I felt sick every day, but I walked in there
and I did feel like I could do it. I
found this strength and it's crazy because I feel like

(29:56):
sixteen and a half years there, those last twenty two months,
I did my best work, like I was the I
feel like, because I've always been super critical of my work,
especially you know, two hours of live TV every day
is a lot. I felt so calm and so strong,
and I trusted my instincts even more doing the live

(30:16):
stuff and the interviews and winging it with highlights.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
You're like, God's with you.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh my gosh. The more people came at me, the
more calm I felt, and the better I did. I
didn't realize it in the moment, but I look back
now and I'm like, how the heck did I go
in there knowing that, like Bob Iger and everybody literally
was trying to crush me and bleed me dry financially
with a stupid lawsuit. So I wouldn't change a thing.

(30:41):
And that's why I can't shut up about it, because
too many people feel scared to death of their companies
based on the pressures, you know, to raise a family
or stay alive medical bills, to pay Like, I get it,
but just know that you are not alone. There are
millions of people out there who have felt scared I
did and just stay quiet, and that's what they bank

(31:04):
on it. And if we continue to do that, then
I think it's on us, Like at some point that's
on me if I choose to stay silent. So I
got to help make people not be silent and realize
we're in this together. And the more we speak up,
the more they will realize they don't have the strength
they think that they do. We are powerful and we
have to use it.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Well, I'm really glad that you're willing to go back
into this again. And I also think that one of
the things I want people to truly understand is that
when you do the right thing, and when you do
God's work, you suddenly have more hours in the day.
You suddenly have more superpowers. It's really unbelievable. It's when
you don't tap into who you are and connect truly

(31:47):
with what you're meant to do, that you're depleted that
you don't have enough hours in the day, that you're
fearful that you can't do things. But the moment you
let go of those what did you call it, golden handcuffs,
you actually become you're meant to do, and then you
can do almost anything. And it is so amazing. Every
time we take on a new program at prayer, you

(32:08):
I'm already so busy. How is it possible that we
can do one more thing? But if it's the right
thing for us to do, somehow more hours in the
day show up. It's pretty unbelievable. And the people that
you and the people that show up that will show
up for you right, the right people will show up
for you. I think about some of the things that

(32:32):
I go through raising my kids now they're eleven, nine
and six, and I today have luxuries that I didn't
have as a child, and I think not having luxuries
was actually helpful and me being the tough chick that
I am. And I'm doing some research about your childhood
and just you describing your childhood being an army brat,

(32:54):
having to move around the country, having to make new friends,
being a shy kid, and having to get over it.
These really really hard things that you went through as
a child. Do you feel like they've prepared you better
for what you were meant to do later on in life?
Because we're so scared to put our kids through hard things,

(33:15):
and we so want a helicopter over them, but then
they get this big hit in real life and they're
not prepared, right, And I just I'd love to hear
a little bit about your childhood and how you think
those hard times built you so you're built.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I was, and I did and do have the best
parents who dragged me through a lot of things, obviously professionally,
but growing up. I by the time I was eleven,
I lived in four different countries. But what a beautiful experience,
I think when I look back on true diversity, like
that's how we lived and to be the new kid

(33:55):
a lot in your elementary, junior, higher high school classrooms.
If you want to play on the kickball team, you
had to go up and say hi, And then I
was I think in some ways like it's the most
diverse upbringing but also the most sheltered because military kids
are cool because they get it. They know what it's

(34:15):
like to be the new kid, and they're very welcoming,
you know, and understanding, and it's like, yeah, you want
to be on the team.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
It's a big family, the military, big.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Family, and a beautifully diverse family, because like I'm from
my dad's black, my mom's white, and there was just
so much you know, interracial dating and marriages. Everybody was
all blended and beautiful, like that's what the world looks like,
and that's what the military is, you.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Know, eap blu or bashoon, and that's what we're meant.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
To be, it is, and so that's all I knew,
and so coming getting out of the military environment was
actually a little bit shocking. When I went to had
to move across the country senior year of high school
that was the worst, to a place that was the
opposite of diverse, and I very much stood out like
a sore thumb. And then college, etc. And then this industry.

(35:02):
I was like, oh my gosh, this is not so.
I was so spoiled. I was so sheltered despite beings
so worldly and living across the world because of how
every welcoming everybody was, so you know, every time was
hard to move because you got used to it and
you made friends. And then my mother in particular was
awesome with this because the moves are hurdest I think

(35:22):
on the spouses and certainly the dependence, but the spouse
is more so and when the father and mother goes,
you know, offers is deployed or something, who's home with
the kids and trying to adjust and find new doctors
and dentists and getting kids signed up for soccer every
couple of years to a place you've never even heard
of sometimes, and my mom always said, no matter where

(35:45):
we live, there's always something great. We lived in really
cool places like Greece and Belgium growing up. I was
born in Panama and California, and also lived in the
middle of Indiana, middle of nowhere in Kansas, and every
place I loved, we loved because my mom taught us
you got to just go find the good. It's all

(36:06):
there and you're always going to meet great people. So
I'm super grateful for that perspective that she chose to have,
growing up very differently from my father, who was also
an army brat. But my mom grew up in small
town Massachusetts, never leaving the state ever, and then being
disowned by her parents for marrying a black man. Like

(36:28):
my mom is tough despite being so sheltered in her
own life. So I just thought it was normal to
move around and have to make friends, even though I
was shy, And so that's why TV wasn't that difficult.
For me to adjust to when you had to start
from in a really small market and keep moving and
being the new kid and being the weird one or

(36:51):
whatever else. It was preparing me and I just didn't
know it. So I'm grateful for that, But of course
you don't know it until afterwards. And what it does
take to walk into those classrooms, you know, or the
sports teams when you know you don't move at the
beginning of the year. Quite often you move in like,
you know, February. So I had to build that toughness
to walk in and then okay, that allows me to

(37:13):
do things. A lot of things I've done today, even
where I have to say, okay, it's hard to walk
into this restaurant by myself and sit at the bar
by myself and get a nice steak dinner by myself,
and I do think back to being.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Everybody that's what happened.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
I wish that's not what's happening. I'm at the wrong restaurant.
Everybody's gonna be dming me, set me up. Gosh, yeah,
we'll talk later. But like it does, still I go
back to being that little shy girl. But then I realized,
remember when you walked into that first year of your
first day of your senior year of high school. I

(37:49):
didn't know a soul in that whole school of two
thousand students, and I was only black student, the only
one in the whole school. How was that not fun?
I think a lot of the kids were great. There
were a couple that were not and made it very clear.
Definitely the toughest experience of my life up to that

(38:10):
point for things that kids said, racist, ugly things that
were said and done that I had never experienced in
my life until I was a senior in high school
because of the beautiful, accepting, tolerant, diverse world I was
in as a military kid, so I didn't realize there
was that kind of racism until I was a senior
in high school. But it was preparing me for what

(38:30):
was to come, and I had no idea, And I'm
grateful for that for that time too.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
You know how you lived all over the world, you
lived all over the country. You really know America?

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I do? Do you think America is a racist country?

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Are we institutionally racist? I feel like, especially.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
Somebody like you who has not only lived all over
the place, but you're half black, half white. If there's
anybody who could answer that question, it would be you.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
I get so mad when people say that the institutional
systemic racism, all these basically new phrases that are just
you know, now, everybody says it because it seems like
it's acceptable and polerant and cool. I have literally lived
across this country and across the world, and having lived
in other countries, I can look at ours and say, stop, guys,

(39:22):
that's not what this is.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Now.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Will there always be racism and prejudice? Of course until
the end of time. There always has been, and there.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Always humans will always be assholes.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yes, it's called human beings. And whether I want to
admit it or not, we all have some prejudices in us.
I know what mine are. I'm working on it, you know,
But like stop stop looking for perfection when there's no
such thing, and be forgiving and understanding. I'm not saying
accepting intolerant of ugliness and racism, but quite often, when

(39:54):
I go back to what my mom went through to
be here today, and my parents just celebrated fifty three
years of marriage, my mom and dad had to forgive
my mom's parents for their racist behavior, to disown my
mother because of who she chose to love. So the

(40:17):
forgiveness came in understanding their why, because I believe that
everybody's opinions are based on their experiences. So I don't
know exactly what my grandparents experienced, but I know that
where they were from, they just didn't see people like
my dad. And then, you know, this is long before
media and internet was even in existence, really, but if

(40:37):
all they knew was what they saw on the news
in the sixties and seventies and what black people were about,
and it was just is coming off the civil rights
are in a very different time, Well, then you're gonna
have some stereotypes and vice versa that all white people
are racist and hate black people. Like it goes both ways.
So for my mom and dad to forgive my mom's

(40:59):
parents and then allow that recovery to happen six or
seven years later, that taught me a lot about forgiveness.
If anyone is bored, like I've kept this pinned on
my Twitter x account for six or seven years, and
NFL Films did a piece on my parents based on

(41:19):
my brother who works with the Baltimore Ravens and he's
in the NFL and interviewing him, they discovered this beautiful
story of my parents, and it's forever pinn there because
it tells the story of what my parents went through
to get to today. And this was done in twenty sixteen,
so it's old now, but it still applies like my
crap is nothing compared to that, Which is why I

(41:41):
think I've been able to maintain perspective because of what
they chose to go through to be together, and if
they can forgive and persevere, who am I not to?
And to just realize that people say ugly things and
do ugly things, and even talking about, you know, a
little bit ago about my friends at ESPN or in

(42:02):
the media world who went direk on me and kind
of just forgot about that those years of friendship. Like
to forgive them because I don't know what they've been
through to make them do that, that caused them to
do that. So I you got to forgive and realize
that everybody has a why as to why they're behaving
a certain way or not being there for you.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
You would forgive them.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
If the ESPN friends suddenly called you now that President
Trump got elected and you were part of the new
Chool team and they suddenly call you.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Now you'll forgive them?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, I oh my gosh, am I not to forgive.
Yeah doesn't mean that the hurt is not there, and
I don't forget that's for sure. The friendship has changed forever.
I don't know that it would even still exist, but
I know the importance of letting someone speak and letting

(43:00):
and allowing someone to grow. I don't expect I'll get
those phone calls, you know, And that's okay either way.
They know, they know, and they can live with that,
and I don't wish ill on any of them, but
I know that. Again, I just go back to something
so much more important to me, which is how my

(43:20):
mom forgave her parents for letting go of her and like,
I don't know, so I'm humbled all the time by
that perspective. And that's why I say screw you to
people who want to focus on everything, making everything about race.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
I think the part that I struggle with the most
today and probably always have and always will is to me,
the most racism I have felt is from people who
look like me. And that's the part that I'm like, now,
what do you lean?

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Can you give me some examples?

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Well, when people who look like me tell me I'm
not black enough, you know, or call me a coon,
and a very long list of things I won't even
repeat because of my views, because you know, how can

(44:14):
I be a Republican or conservative based on the racist
Republican Party and the racist Donald Trump and all, you know,
like who cares? That's how I grew up, and I
feel like I had the best upbringing because of how
diverse it was and still is, like I might all

(44:34):
love me as much as my white family, Like it's
not what we want in America. That's what America is.
That's what we are promoting, so shut up with your divisiveness.
It has devastated me the most though, when black people
have said what they have said, And oh my gosh,
it's probably a massive minority of people, but it's a
very loud minority, and certainly some of my peers at

(44:55):
ESPN and elsewhere. But that's the part, because I think,
grow up up. You know, kids are kids, even good
military kids, and so you know, oh, well, she's this
because of her white mom, or she talks like this
because of you know, or her hair or like all
that stupid shit that like, what are we doing, We're

(45:17):
actually we're actually being racist by saying these things. So
that's the part that I've had to let go of
and realizing that this is how God made me. And
if I'm not black en off all of a sudden,
or I'm I'm no longer invited to the cookout because
of who loved me and who I loved or how
I believe, then you're the one with the problem, and

(45:39):
you're the one that's actually being a detriment to this
beautiful country by continuing to focus on race. Whether it's
those people, whether it's these people at these colleges and
universities or just on Twitter who are choosing to benefit
from this. That's why the joy Reads of the world
continue to do what they're doing, because it'd be they'd
have to take a a cut, a hit and their

(46:02):
paychecks if they stop making things all about race, and
they're not willing to do that. So go ahead with
your big bed self, go ahead and do it. Be divisive.
I can't imagine what that feels like to live in
such ugliness and to want to divide. So those are
the people we need to pray for. I love that
you have the tolerance in you.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
You know the work that we do here at Frigguer
you the whole mission of this enterprise is to change minds,
and so we have to come into it knowing that
we have to be with arms wide open. People will
wake up in different times in their lives, in different stages,
and humans make mistakes, and so there is a line
which I believe when people cross, we can't forgive.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, right, and it's probably an individual right.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Well individual or if we show zero if we see
zero remorse.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
But when people show remorse, I think I think we
need to welcome them because at the end of the day,
that's our mission.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Our mission is to bring people into the light. That's
what God wants us to do at the end of
the day.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Right, we want our children to get along, and God
wants us to get along, right, And that's truly truly
our test. And then there are the people who have
been truly brainwashed by the joy Reads of the world
or the MSNBC who or who have gone to the
vast majority of American colleges where they've been constantly brainwashed

(47:21):
that Donald Trump is an anti Semite, that he is
a racist, that he hates women, that there is no
chance that Kamala Harris would be elected because if Hillary,
who was a white woman, didn't get elected, then Kamala Harris,
a black woman, could never be elected in the United
States of America because she's a black woman. And I

(47:46):
think this fear that has been instilled in our culture
into young women, it's actually evil to instilled this kind
of fear into people. And you can't expect them to
think differently if they don't actually see some of the light. Right,
I don't know if you can expect a twenty year
old college student to understand what is really happening, the

(48:11):
type of brainwashing that has happened through our I call
our colleges oftentimes they're left wing seminaries.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
That's what they do.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
You just send them into the washer and just day
in and day out, they're brainwashed. And so I think
the element of forgiveness is so important. And then I'm
wondering what message would you have given the journey that
you've been through to women like that, who and men
who have been going through the university washers who have
been listening to woke media, who haven't really been given

(48:43):
the opportunity to hear the alternative perspective, probably have not
gone to church, or they have gone to a woke church.
Those exist too. There are many woke citidogues. And so
if you could speak to them right now, because they
are living in fear, in fear, think about what they
are thinking in their mind is about to happen to

(49:04):
their country.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
What would you say to them?

Speaker 2 (49:06):
First of all, get off TikTok, or at least expand
your horizons a little bit, because we know the influence
that the mainstream media has had on all the social
media platforms, and they're only allowing these kids to see
one point of view. And if that's all I saw,
especially that age or even now, then I would be

(49:29):
fearful as well. I get. I say, I'm proud. My
oldest daughter is twenty two when she's a senior in college,
and you know, she called me the day of the
election and was and I said, are you going to watch?
And she said no, I'm afraid. I'm so afraid that
what happened in twenty twenty is going to happen again.
I can't watch. Mom. And she did her own homework
on all of it and why she believes what she believes,
So she Quinn, My Quinn, my firstborn, gives me so

(49:53):
much hope because of the conversations she has with her
friends and roommates. And that's what it takes. And so
for the young women and men, have the conversations, really
talk to each other about it. And I also think
that when they do that, just like with us, you
realize you're not alone. There's a lot of good kids

(50:13):
who come from just normal households there. Maybe you know,
middle left, middle right, whatever it is, but common sense.
And if you have the conversations, you realize you're not alone,
and that's when it can happen and the magic can
really happen. I also don't want these young kids to
live in fear like I did for so long, and

(50:36):
I think that's one of my biggest regrets, even though
I can't really regret it, because I wouldn't be here
today without having lived in that fear and feeling it.
You got to go through the hard things too, yes,
and if I can, you know, if I can prevent
them from beating themselves up for as many years as

(50:58):
I have in every aspect of my life, then this
journey is so worth it. Like if we don't share
the crap. We've been through. What a waste, you know,
So be kinder to yourself, Listen to what's in your gut,
don't ignore it just because you don't hear others talking
about it and speak about it. I think it's the
way you say things. It's not your words necessarily, it's

(51:20):
how you say them. And so when you begin those
conversations and even in your posts and your tweets and
all those things, your comments and the dms, how do
you say it? Lead with kindness, even if it's something
opposite of what they're saying. But when you go in
like you know, a blaze like of course they're going
to be defensive as well. But most importantly, you cannot

(51:41):
live in fear. You will regret it and it will
change your life and you will look back and regret it.
So is the fear legitimate. Yes, that's what I've been
talking about. Absolutely, But it also took me too long
to rely on my faith. So when you have that faith,
that looks like just because I grew up strict Catholic,

(52:03):
still practicing and Christian overall, my mindset on that has
very much expanded. Whatever your faith is, where that's rue
to go there, pray about things, and then do you
in a kind way. I really believe that that would
have helped me realize much sooner that it's okay to

(52:26):
take that chance, especially if you have a support system
that might not be your parents like I had. Maybe
it's your roommate, maybe it's their parents, you know, maybe
it's your rabbi. I don't know, but you're not alone.
Please don't think that take a chance.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
There was something amazing that you did at the beginning
of your career, and that was you rejected ESPN the
first time around and decided to have a baby and
to raise a family. And I think about that because
just yesterday I bumped into this young woman, she's probably
at the age of your daughter, maybe a few years older.

(53:03):
She's married, and she walked up to me and she said,
I am so scared to have children.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
And I think this is so.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Important because young women have been told to be afraid
to have children. One reason on the right is that
because the education system is so broken, and they're going
to hear all these bad ideas and they're going to
go on social media and it's so difficult to raise children,
which it's not easy, of course, and then another reason

(53:33):
on the left is that humans are parasites and planet
Earth and that we're mooching off the planet and we
need less humans. And you know, there's a toxic mom culture,
which both are really bad. At the end of the day,
there is nothing more beautiful and meaningful. There's no better
vitamin for your life than having children and somebody like

(53:55):
you who put your career on the line to go
and have a family.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
And when I said to this young woman, I said, said, I.

Speaker 4 (54:02):
Just stood with President Trump, and I do an incredible
work that I'm really proud of, and I really enjoy
it and really nourishes my soul. But there is nothing,
nothing more important to me than my children. There's nothing
I'm more proud of than having kids. It's what I
get to actually really keep to myself. So it's really mine.

(54:23):
I mean, you went through a divorce, you don't have
the husband, you've changed your career, you don't have ESPN.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
But look at you. You have your kids.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Have my babies. You have your babies.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
And look, we'll have kerfuffles with our children, especially if
they're in their late teenage years. But this message that
young women are too afraid to have kids, or that
they should have their career first because otherwise.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
They won't be able to have kids, or.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
That having kids in this period of scary time in
the world is not worth doing.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
I just think is a message that we have a
responsibility to break.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Yeah, and break it hard.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
And I probably don't think about that decision to turn
down ESPN enough because it's just what I did in
that moment, just what I thought was right. But I
look back and I'm like, wow, that I took a
big chance there too, you know. But I was raised
in such a beautiful family that I knew that I

(55:23):
would regret putting that priority on the back burner for
this career. And so I was pregnant with my second
when I finally got the call from ESPN, and I
was so excited, and I went up to audition and
I mean I was like twelve months pregnant, like just
loo and crushed the audition because I didn't care because

(55:46):
I had this baby bouncing on my bladder, like let's
let's get this over with, you know. And then yeah,
I got the call, and I mean, my husband was
very supportive of taking the job. He was a stay
at home dad. My parents knew this little girl that
had been talking about ESPN her whole life. I finally
did it because I've been talking to them for four

(56:07):
or five years and they were like, this is what
you need to do to get better and to work
on it and to be basically worthy of working here.
And they were right. And then I got there and
they gave it to me, and I was like, I
can't do it. And my agent at the time was like,
are you high, Like what are you doing? ESPN doesn't
need you. You need ESPN and she's like, you're going
to get black belt. They'll never call you back. I

(56:29):
just knew I wanted at least three kids and so
and I had a dear, dear friend, Stuart Scott, the
late great Stuart Scott, who's I miss him every day.
He's a legend at ESPN and died of cancer almost
ten years ago, which I can't believe. And he was
the one that pulled me aside when you didn't even
know me that well and said, don't come until you're
ready because this place will eat you up, especially as

(56:53):
a young mom. So this is in two thousand and four,
and I listened and I just said, you know, what
And I prayed, I'm like, if it's meant to be,
then they'll call me back. So I said no and
signed another contract where it was in DC Baltimore and
had a third kid, and three years later they called
back and it happened to be a better offer too.

(57:13):
But I I can't imagine what had happened if I
had listened to the fear of they don't need you,
you need them. Listen to that message, and I probably
wouldn't have had a third kid, because when you get
to ESPN, like, oh my gosh, I don't even know
how I survived the first decade there in the first
place with babies, you know, just as the mother who

(57:35):
was trying to be everything at work and National TV.
And then the room month and for all three. You
can't do one kid. You got to be a room
month for all three kids at the same time, and
make the cookies, homemade, make up for everything, all of
the things. It's just it's ridiculous what we do my kids. Yeah,
talked about keeping us humble in every way but perspective.

(57:58):
And when I the night before my lawsuit dropped and
the news of it was dropping, I talked to each
kid separately. This is what this is the power of
your children. And a sophomore in high school, a senior
in high school, and a freshman in college, and I
spoke to each of them separately, and I'm like, listen,

(58:19):
this is what's coming down. This is what's going to happen.
I don't want you to feel like you have to
defend me or stand up for me, but I wanted
you to know because in the past, with other things
that you know, stirred the pod or I made headlines
with my big mouth. You know, teachers would say something,
or coaches or other their parents which pissed me off.

(58:39):
And I like, you have an issue, come to me,
don't talk to my kid. And I just said, don't
ever defend me. But if someone says something, just remind
people that diversity of thought really is the most important thing,
and that my mom is right to your opinion whatever
it is. But just don't feel that pressure, but remind them.
And so each kid reacts a little bit differently. And
my son in the middle of my daughter's he he's twenty,

(59:03):
I was in tears. I'm like, I'm just sorry for
what's gonna happen, because I know it's going to be ugly.
And my son stopped what he was doing and he
looked at me and he goes, mom, it's about time
you stood up for yourself. So this is when I
need like alcohol, have some teeth. Okay, but like that's

(59:24):
the so many lessons for me as a parent, right,
Like we're trying to do everything perfectly for them, and
I was making myself smaller and like not being true
to myself to protect them, and the whole time he's
watching me, they're watching me being like, God, that's not her.

(59:47):
But he never told me that. They never told me
until the moment I was going to stand up to
one of the biggest companies on the planet, David versus Goliath,
like you know who am I? And so I knew
it that moment that even if I lost against big
bad Disney and the company that I love for all

(01:00:07):
those years ESPN, I was still gonna win because my
kids saw that I finally was standing up. I just
didn't know that they'd seen all of it. So my
kids have saved me in many ways too. Yeah, and
especially in that moment. I'll never be able to thank
my son enough for that moment of making me realize

(01:00:31):
I'm gonna be okay no matter what, even if I
don't have a paycheck, because at least they see me
and respect me, and most importantly won't wait till they're
my age to do it and to be honest and
true to themselves and stand up for not just myself
but for others. That's what it was at that point,
other people. So don't wait. Yeah, don't wait, young women

(01:00:54):
and men, that's what we're told. And it's so sad
because like the family is where it's at, and it's
so cliche. Right on your deathbed, you're not going to
wish you had worked to more. But it's true. And
my kids have seen a better version of me over
the last few years since I did this and made
this decision, and their life has changed, and they went

(01:01:17):
through a lot of people attacked my kids online, the
threatened to rate my daughters because of my mom, their
mom's opinion, Like the psych goes out there, let's point
that out right, And so there are risks because they're
going to come after your kids too, But my kids
are tough and I know that, like who cares like

(01:01:38):
about my accomplishments And my kids don't but they care
about their mom and they know that they're old enough.
They also care about our happiness. They do, and so
they inspire me to keep doing it. Most importantly, so
they don't wait as long as I did. And now
they're seeing a different version and they're going to be

(01:01:59):
hell of a lot stronger than I was. And they're
not going to live in fear because they know that
you're going to survive. So I hope, I hope those
young women don't wait. You can do both, and either
way there's going to be sacrifices if you wait. By
the way, I have several friends who are in the
early forties who have struggled and are devastated because of

(01:02:21):
the infertility issues. Now it's not going to be perfect.
I've turned out a ton of great assignments. I've left
a lot of money on the table.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
So what who cares? Like look and no one give.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
The crap about you in the big picture. What your
kids do?

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Your kids are the gift from God.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
They are no they make me crazy and they're playing
that's their job, but that's their job. I want to
lease their teens that they're at means you have normal,
healthy kids that are doing their job.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
Oh my gosh, like they're watching their mom win in life.
You are going to be part of their inner voices.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
And what if I hadn't done it? What if I
think about it? What if I stayed quiet? Can you
imagine like I can't, I'm not if I'd stay quiet
and not allowed them to see and then their friends
see it too. And I'm just so grateful that I went.
I dug deep on my faith to find the strength

(01:03:14):
to do it for them and hopefully for other young
women and men who are afraid to be true to themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Sorry, I'm not supposed to cry.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
So you are just supposed to be who you are.
If Sage Steal.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
In her twenties could come back and sit with us
today and watch you cry with me about everything you've
been through, what would Sage Seal from her twenties say,
watching you, I had a.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Feeling you would go here, and I'm still not prepared.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
I yeah, just I'm getting you tissue. Everybody's gonna think
I'm like that for not giving you a tissue.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Okay, okay, okay, we're just gonna pretend like this didn't happen. No,
I'm fine, Like this is the other part, we try
to be taught.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
You know, you're incredibly you know what, you're incredibly generous
for being so genuine and so and so open.

Speaker 5 (01:04:20):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
Most people put on a front thinking that they can
go through all the hard things without being human, and
that also is a bad example either way, it's an
unfair example, and we don't need to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Is there any cleanex like it's stuck to my face?

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
No, and you're like one of those people who are
beautiful no matter what.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Love it not true love you, But that's very unfair.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
But no, Like we'll deal with that now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I think that you're right though, because we try to.
Oh it's been three years or it's been five years
since the like, yeah, that doesn't hurt anymore now to
entertain Yeah, it's still there, and that's okay because because
it's helping me continue to share it and hopefully help
others through it. Like I said, what a waste if
we don't share the pain. But like I think, I

(01:05:12):
think you said the word warrior earlier, and I hesitate
to use it because it sounds like you know, but
I think I, yeah, I'm a lot stronger than I thought,
and that's kind of cool, because you can be really
emotional and really probably too sensive in some ways and

(01:05:33):
all those things. And I am not too sensive, but
just very sensive and very emotional and still be freaking
strong and a badass and not back down. You can
be both. You don't have to choose, and I'm proud
of that. I would have just I think the message
I would have to myself, my twenty year old self,
is is to stop living in fear and stop trying

(01:05:57):
to please everybody else about yourself. I'm the ultimate pleaser
and I'm trying to I'm in recovery for that little disease. Yeah,
because it is especially a shy kid, the firstborn. I
was the only girl on both sides of my family
for like fifteen years. I wanted everybody and everything to
be perfect, and if they weren't, or if it wasn't,
then I was going to be the one to fix it.

(01:06:18):
And it's exhausting. And so I would say, stop trying
to please and save the world. Be empathetic, be that
bring her together or whatever that word as I'm making
up right now, be yourself because that's who I am,
and I'm a nurturer and I'm a mom and I
care and love so hard, but don't absorb that if

(01:06:45):
it doesn't turn out perfectly for everyone else around you.
And I used to absorb it, try to fix it all.
And I can't empower others to do that, you know,
But like, be okay being you even if it's uncomfortable,
and even if it's it's not popular. And I'm grateful that,
through my faith and through my parents and a very

(01:07:07):
tight circle of friends and my kiddos, that I found
it and now there's no turning back, and it's so exciting.
It is so exciting, even though I literally don't know
what tomorrow brings personally or professionally. I don't know, and
I'm okay with it. So I would hug her too,

(01:07:28):
because she needed a hug and still does a lot,
and it's okay to ask for that, right yeah, yeah,
so it's but I ofurse. I wouldn't change it, not
one thing, the cancelations plural, the the devastation from being
let down by employers or teammates or spouses, I wouldn't

(01:07:52):
change any of it. And I need to keep working
on myself to be better for those who who are
around me and those who aren't around me, because I
did didn't realize I had this voice. I didn't realize
that this sportscaster dream would turn into something where a
couple of people might care what I have to say.
And I didn't. It wasn't the goal. Sometimes I don't
like it, but I do believe that's besides being a mother.

(01:08:16):
That's why God has me here is because he he
knows I'm I'm no longer afraid to speak up for
myself and more importantly, for others.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
I'd hope that stage from her twenties, if she were
to watch you, she would say, Wow, God really has
a hand on me, and I'm going to be just fine.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Because of him. I'm okay, I'm more than okay. I'm great.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
Well, congratulations, my fellow warrior. I love you, and I'm
just excited about what you're going to be doing next.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (01:08:55):
I'm sure people are going to follow you. You have
your own platform now where you're free to see.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
It's weird. I keep thinking Bob I was going to
reach up from behind me and choke me out, and
like he hasn't shown up yet, and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
I feel like I could take him if he did
you would take him down. You would take him down.
I have no doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
God bless him. Let's do it. God bless them all.
Thank you, Thank you for wanting to talk to me.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please
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(01:09:43):
Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website,
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is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King of Ding. Executive
producer is chadknock Niche. Jim Mudd is the creative director.

(01:10:07):
Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance MacLean.
Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our
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into our production. Where possible, we give credit, Where not,

(01:10:30):
we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the
memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long Live Elvis. Be a simple
man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally,
if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp
Hope at eight seven seven seven to one seven PTSD

(01:10:55):
and a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide
free count