PM Show Hr 1 | Venting and Feeling Our Emotions with Callers

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
So Michael very show is on the air.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Charlie always said that when he was gone, he he
wanted to be remembered for his.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Courage and for his fat slim.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Coming and one of the final conversations that he had
on this earth. My husband witnessed for his Lord and Savior,
Jesus Christ. Now and for all eternity, he will stand
at his Savior's side wearing the glorious crown of a murtyr.
He was the perfect father, He was the perfect husband.

(00:51):
Charlie always believed that God's design for marriage and the
family was absolutely amazing.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
And it is Are you murking right now?

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Are you? Are you angry to a degree that you
realize this isn't healthy. I suppose it's okay to be
angry on a battlefield where you've got an enemy on
the other side, or you can pull a trigger. At
are you hurting? Because I have been. Charlie Kirk was

(01:20):
assassinated early Wednesday afternoon. We did the show in a
complete state of shock. Wednesday evening. We committed that Thursday
we would do five hours, and I already realized that
this thing was stirring emotions in me that I can't
say publicly.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
And shouldn't.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
By the way, it's not out of cowardice that I
don't do it. It's out of wanting to be a
force for good. And I fully understand that sometimes my
emotions are not in are not pursuant to a force
for good.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
They are the.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Indulgences of a man with deep passions. Well, let me
start by saying this. So I had planned on doing
our menopause conversation on Friday, and so we had a

(02:23):
big group our whole show. Do we stick with Charlie
discussion on Friday and move the menopause back? We had
promoted it, but that's okay. Our listeners will forget that.
And I said, yeah, let's stick to what we're doing.
I need a day off. I need a weekend to consume,

(02:45):
but not contribute to this conversation. I need perspective. I
need to clear my head. And so the guys were
great and everybody was wonderful about it, as they always are.
But you don't Charlie Kirk was traveling the country. He
would get people getting in his face, calling him the
worst names. He ran an organization with a lot of employees.

(03:07):
That hit a lot of billionaires and millionaires who were
writing the checks for this organization. And I happen to
know a little something about the behind the scenes of
how that happens. Those guys that write big checks, they
want to tell you what to say, and they don't
like it when you say this or when you say that.
They want you to say this other thing or this
other thing. They don't like you to have that position.

(03:29):
And they threatened to pull back their money because they
are an investor after all. But you have to be
true to what you believe, and they don't understand. And
what I'm saying is Charlie was under a lot of
stress too. You're not in a more stress grieving his
loss than he was living his life. And do you

(03:53):
remember when you had young kids? Oh boy, young kids.
You feel guilty if you will walk out and put
the trash out because your kids are crying. They want
you back. So let's look to what Charlie said about that.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
He was he observed the Jewish Sabbath.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
He wasn't Jewish, obviously, but every Friday he would turn
off his phone and he wouldn't turn it back till
Sunday until Saturday evening. I have found some of the
greatest grounding in my life is to get off the
carousel of all the crazy whirlwind of clout seekers, conspiracy

(04:36):
theorists and this and this and this. It is unhealthy
and you can overdo it, and you've got to take
back your life and find some If you're lucky enough
to have a spouse who loves you, and children who
love you, and a dog who loves you, and fresh
air outside, that's the antidote.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
That's the medicine.

Speaker 5 (04:59):
Turn your phone off for one day, no contact, no
social media, no work. Your mental health will improve dramatically.
So every Friday night, I take a Jewish sabbath, turn
off my phone Friday night to Saturday night. The world
cannot reach me, and I get nothing from the world.
It will bless you infinitely. And I could be traveling
for five or six days, but if I at least

(05:19):
get one good sabbath with my family, it charges all
that up.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
When he turns his phone off and it goes in
that drawer, he's all on for the family. There is
no distractions, and he finally gets to reset his brain.
He finally gets to breathe, and as a wife, there
is nothing more precious than my husband's sanity when it comes.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
To everything that he's dealing with in his world.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
So I have seen it change him and impact our
family in one of the most beautiful ways.

Speaker 5 (05:47):
And it's made our family much tighter knit. And it
says very clearly in the scriptures for six days you
shall work, and the seventh day you shall rest. It
was important enough that God put it as one of
the ten commandments, and God rested after creation.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Go back to God's natural rhythm.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
That is a day to go be with God and
be out of the busyness and the hurried, nous noise
of this world.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
If you won't do it because I tell you to
do it, and tribute to.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Charlie, clear your head.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
You are a warrior in this battle, and even warriors
need to rest.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Live, laugh, learn, Doing is big. On the Michael Berry Show.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
I want you to pause from man. I want you
to answer a question out loud where you're sitting. What
is conservatism? What does it mean to you? I don't
want you to use agutis. I'm just telling me it's good.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
What is it.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
If a young.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Person, your own or a younger person at work looks
up to you, ask you what conservatism has If you
say I'm a conservative, you know people are always when
you have answers. When Charlie Kirk has answers to questions
like this at a on a college campus, Wow, that's

(07:11):
really impressive. Listen, let me ask you this. If you
claim you're a Christian, you need to sit quietly, put
your phone down and write ten questions. Who do you
claim you are? Write those ten things down? I would

(07:32):
who do you hold out to the public that you
And I'm not questioning your faith. My point is that
you set it yourself. Okay, it's not like someone set
you up for it. I am a Christian, all right?
What does that mean? And you might not know the answer.
You might not be good with words or thoughts or vocabulary.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
But work through that. Work through that.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
You say, we should love our country. Think about these things.
Turn the television off, turn the computer off, turn the
phone off. Sit out back with a cup of coffee
or a bourbon, or a beer, or a glass of
wine or an iced tea or whatever it is. I've
said it over the years. I think the class of

(08:19):
callers to our show in twenty years of doing this.
The class of callers that I would say have been
the best callers, the most engaging, the most thoughtful, the
most profound is truck drivers. And people always think I'm
crazy for saying that, But let me tell you why

(08:39):
that is. Because truck drivers spend a lot of time
alone without their phone on, without the TV on, windshield time,
and so they consume a lot of content. For most
of them, they're great talk radio listeners because they'll listen
to you for three four hours, they'll set you on
the podcast, they'll listen to all five hours. I know

(09:01):
this because they tell me. But some of the time
they're not listening to anything. They're thinking. They're processing. God
gave you a beautiful brain. It's amazing what that brain
can do. You're afraid of AI. We created AID, We

(09:21):
created systems and languages and fields of study, from engineering
to architecture, psychology to math, law, language. It's amazing. Use
that big, beautiful brain of yours. Don't let anybody tell
you you're not as good as someone else because they
have some silly degree.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Charlie didn't What was the line.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
From Anna Paulino Luna Luna, Charlie didn't need college. College
needed Charlie.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
God, that was good. And it was at.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
The Kennedy Center this week. Could you have that quote, Handy.
I wasn't sure we're going to get to it today.
I'd saved it for tomorrow. But see if you can
find that.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
As I sat there.

Speaker 6 (10:07):
Next to him, student after student approached the debate, often
with heated emotions, but Charlie remained cool, common, logical, and
one by one, no matter how controversial the question was,
he would dismantle them with his reasoning. And that's when
I realized something Charlie Kirk did need.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
College college needed to Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
It's a beautiful line, Napoleon, beautiful line. So Charlie Kirk
was asked by doctor Drue what conservatism is.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Now.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
I want you to listen to his answer. But then
I want you to do what Charlie and Rush and
everybody who does what we do should want you to do.
And that's not come to Charlie or Rush or anyone
else for an answer to every question.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Come up with your own.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
Come up with your own based on your own life experience.
You can be entertained and engaged. This can be a
data point in making your own decisions. But you need
to work through these answers yourself, and the working through it,
the exercise not easy. It's a struggle. It's tough, you're uncomfortable.
That's where the glory is to be found. Work through

(11:26):
these answers. All right, here's what he said. That is conservatism.
What is that now?

Speaker 5 (11:31):
Very simply, it's about protecting the best we have to
offer so our kids and grandkids can enjoy it. That's it.
It's protecting the best. It's conserving interjected Please, well.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
The best as laid down in the Constitution as a
best acording.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
To whom sure exactly what is objectively best?

Speaker 5 (11:47):
For example, so having children, which we're not doing a
job of conserving, that's an objective good for the species.
The birth rate is pluminent, where a lot of the
fertility rates are the lowest they've ever been in American history.
And the idea of having children is now a luxury
item for those that can afford it.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
The idea of home ownership, so I think.

Speaker 5 (12:03):
That's an objective good that helped build Western society. You
have your land, you're able to caretake for it. This
is my place. I'm going to steward it well. Homeownership
is now at record lows for young people. That's why
it's such an interesting statement my answer, doctor Drew, because
we could spend two hours of what is the best,
by what's standard? By whom will the agreed upon way
in the west of how we have explored and defined.

(12:25):
The answer is those things that are good for their
own sake. And that is an Aristotylian answer. It's awfully philosophical.
But you don't have to dwell on it too much
to say that children is good for society, marriage is
good for society. When drug addiction goes up, that's a
bad thing. You've been a hero on that topics. Conservatism
is about protecting the best we have to offer so
that young people and future generations can enjoy it like
we have now.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
You are free to use that as your own answer
going forward. But I want you to think about questions
like this, Let's get something good out of Charlie's death.
There are a lot of things that are going to happen.
The number of turning point chapters start with. But I
want you, I want you to start thinking. I want
you to be a creator. If you had to take
over Charlie's job. Yes, I want you to think about

(13:10):
how you'd do it. I want you to think about
what you'd say on the campus.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
That is conservatism? What is that now?

Speaker 5 (13:17):
Very simply, it's about protecting the best we have to
offer so our kids and grandkids can enjoy it. That's it.
It's protecting the best. It's conservative interjective. Please, well the
best as laid down in the Constitution, as a best
according to whom sure exactly what is objectively best? For example,
so having children, which we're not doing a job of conserving,

(13:37):
that's an objective good for the species. The birth rate
is plumbting where the fertility rates are the lowest they've
ever been in American history, and the idea of having
children is now a luxury item for those that can
afford it. The idea of home ownership, so I think
that's an objective good that helped build Western society. You
have your land, you're able to caretake for it. This
is my place. I'm going to steward it well. Homeownership

(13:59):
is now at record low for young people. That's why
it's such an interesting statement my answer, Doctor Drew, because
we could spend two hours of what is the best
by what's standard, by whom, well, the agreed upon way
in the West of how we have explored and defined.
The answer is those things that are good for their
own sake.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
You're listening to Charlie Kirk. Did need college? College needed
to Charlie Kirk. So Michael Berry's show, Larry, you are
on the Michael Berry Show. Glad to have you.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Welcome, sir, Thank you, Michael. Thank I appreciate you taking
a call. Yes, first time I call. I'm a little
bit nervous y, don't beg Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah,
you've already said some of this kind of trip my emotions.
You said, you're talking about the love of Christ, the
sacrifices that were made at my church. We do have
a little bit of a sharing time. People get up

(14:49):
and speak their minds. And yes, people were speaking about
Charlie Kirk. Well, one woman got up and she has
family that lives in Kuwait and she learned about the
passing of Charlie Kirk from the folks that live in Kuwaites. Yes,
we have a we all love Charlie Kirk. Here's a
mass of following. And then I learned that in the
UK in Paraguay and Japan, all over the world, people

(15:12):
are saying, I am Charlie Kirk. There is a following
not because of this man. He was a man. A
bullet took him down, but it was the love of
Christ in him. He took such vile vitriol in his face,
and he did it with patience, He did it with style,
he did it with love. And that all calls into

(15:32):
question my faith, my witness, my character and personality. Because
of course my first reaction is I want to rage
all over these folks that do these kinds of things.
But I think about how we reacted and how people
reacted to him, and if I don't stop, take a breath,

(15:53):
reminds myself who I belong to, who I love, and
who my witness is for, than my witness is destroyed.
In that light that Charlie shined into the world will
not shine in me. So thank you for continuing to
talk about him, to honor him, and to remind me
and hopefully others that we need to be something better

(16:15):
than we are. And when they scream at us, don't
get down in the pig pen and wall around in
the pen. All you do is get filthy and dirty.
We hate it, but the pigs love it. So that's
all I wanted to share. Michael, I thank you, appreciate
your brother.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
No, Larry, it takes a very brave man, rather than
call and brag of their accomplishments.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
To offer up our.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Own failings, which any Christian understands is a part of
a repentance. It is a part of the humility of service.
It is a sign of great strength, not witness to
do that. When you talk about how this, how Charlie's

(17:02):
assassination and martyrdom affected you, and you talk about church,
and you talk about your faith, when you look at
ways that you say I can be better, I can
do more, have you thought about that or have you
just at this point just made a commitment of resolution
that you will Or have you seen areas where you

(17:24):
can make a difference already? Have you identified those?

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:29):
I have. I you know, I remember when we there
was the election last year, and after the the indictments
came down, and how many people started donating to Trump's
campaign and then I donated, and I remember you came
out and spoke and said, yeah, well, where have you
been this whole time? Why does it take this for

(17:50):
you to play a part and get involved in rage
against the dying of the light. And yes, that was
that was me. I would get on I would get
on social media, and I would get in the pig pen,
and I would get angry and bitter and react exactly
the way they did. But it calls in me that
I cannot be afraid to say the name of Christ.

(18:11):
I cannot be afraid to say the truth if it offends,
and if they can't take the word, I walk away.
I don't react. But there are groups I am calling
the turning point. I am saying, what can I do
to get involved? I have to not be afraid of
somebody shutting the door in my face if I go
in to share, Hey, you know, have you heard about Christ?
Or have you voted Republican? Or are you thinking about this?

(18:34):
And other words. Have no fear. Rice didn't have any fear.
He knew what was coming to him when they came
for him in the garden. And if I don't have
even a bit of half of that, and you don't
even know the failings, I can't even tell you the
things that I have been blessed with and grace with.
And yet I still turn around and want to do

(18:56):
like Lot's wife, I will still want to turn around
and do those same types of things. The last thing
I want to say is I had an interaction with
you in email when that guy called him and say, hey,
can ramon maybe if you're not there, can he have
a little bit of time? And and your reaction was
you know, I took your reaction as negative, and I

(19:17):
wrote and I said, like, I called you an arrogant man,
but and I said, you know that was just kind
of rude. The guy didn't mean it that way. But
you wrote back in a sense that didn't say you
know what, well, screw you, buddy. You know this, that
and the other thing. You explained everything that made sense
to me, And I thought, you know what, the times
that I've criticized Michael Berry when he he did humble himself,

(19:41):
he explained himself. I understood it, and I was appreciated
that it is about my witness, about being humble, not
bragging about what I've done, because my feelings are many.
So I appreciate you for that. That's all I really have, sir.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
It's very kind of you to say we're are you
from Leary Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I'm Houston Southwest southwest side. I'm a mural painter here
on the southwest side, well mural painter in Houston, but
I'm actually working for West Chase District right now going
around washing all my traffic boxes. And I'm sitting across
from from one of them, a few of them right now,
to get them cleaned off and starting the next project
for them.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Wait a minute, are you the guy that paints those
murals on the.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Traffic boxes and the Harvey mural? There was a Harvey
tribute mural that was painted along one of the byes.
It's long destroyed. It wasn't a bad spot, did you. Yeah,
I've gotten.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Now.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
All of mine have been the traffic boxes on the corners.
I got a large space mural over here on Willcrest
that's behind the buildings facing the HCC building or something.
On these Spaceman murals, a large butterfly mural along one
of the butterflies. Just a number of different murals for

(21:06):
them and any other things that I've done around town.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Of course, how did you get into doing that? That's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
It was I went to the artist to do of
Houston back when there was an art Institra of Houston,
and then for four or five years I didn't do
anything with it, did something else, and then I got
led The job that I was at had me go
into a job of a guy that I'd known that
did motorcycle tanks and custom airbrushing or whatever. And then
when I took the picked up a vehicle that he

(21:35):
had to do artwork on for our company. I asked him.
I saw him up top of a cigarette boat buffing
out the clear. I thought, if the owner has to
do that kind of work on top of a cigarette boat,
gritting it out in the middle of summer, maybe he
needs help. And he had a number of other people,
And I asked him, and sure enough I got a job,
worked with him for a few years, went back, and
then then I worked with him again. He knew another

(21:57):
person is just step after step after step. I got
led into this. Now been Ben, I'm your lardist for
the last fifteen twenty some odd years or something.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
I have if you are the last of it? No,
I was on, we don't have that.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, AI is not going to replace me. Yeah, they
are not going to be able to get out there
on the street and paint on a wall.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
That's that is real.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
I'm fascinated by how people not just make a living
but use the gifts God has given them.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
And you talked about it as a journey.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
You know.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
I tell my boys who are eighteen and nineteen, don't
worry when people ask you what you're going to do
when you graduate, if you even graduate, because that's not
that important to me. Worry about what you're going to
do now, what you want to do, what you enjoy doing,
what you find fulfilling, and people will say, oh, you

(22:52):
can't do what you enjoy, you just have to do
a dirty job. Like Mike Growth said, well, people are
called into the ministry because it's fulfilling.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
I see no problem with that.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
I think you find you say these are my gifts
and this is how I'm going to use it, and
you clearly have great call Call the month.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Listen to the Michael Berry Show podcast if you dare.
There's a pretty.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Active and thorough body of work that believes, as I
partially do, that Pearl Harbor's attack at World War Two,
setting off the United States involvement against Japan, the attack

(23:41):
at Pearl Harbor by Japan, the loss of life, the
unprovoked nature of it. It pierced the veil of America's isolationism,
a healthy isolationism mass I share it, and so does Trump.

(24:03):
We didn't want to go into Europe's war. Sure, Hitler
was terrible, but we didn't want to go into Europe's war.
It was not clear that the Holocaust was going on
at the time. We didn't want to fight a war
for a continent that had been at war. Napoleon had
done very similar things. We'd seen Russian tsars and kings

(24:31):
proceeded westward, Kubla Khan, Genghis Khan. We'd seen Alexander the
Great move eastward. We'd seen a hannibal across Tunisia now
a carthage now Tunisia, and his elephants.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
We had seen all these things. Hell, we had fought
World War One, the ward end all.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
Wars and suffered mightily from it. We didn't want to
involve of ourselves in the Internacine European theater. But then
Japan attacks, and whatever your thought on the matter, there
is no doubt that it mobilized the American people to

(25:19):
go to war overnight. FDR could say that December seventh,
nineteen forty one was a day which will live in infamy.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Was the speech already prepared. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Were more ships moved into position to maximize the damage
done so the American people and loss of life, so
the American people would be sufficiently angry.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
You're free to believe whatever you want, but there is
no doubt that what happened did mobilize the American people.
And there is at least a common sense friendly audience
to the argument, because yeah, well, FDR had been in

(26:09):
communication with Winston Churchill constantly over the last four years,
and Winston Churchill was begging FDR for Americans to enter
the war, not just lease vehicles and donate vehicles and

(26:29):
loan money, but for the Americans to join the war
boots on the ground. The war was being lost, and
if you've seen the movie dun Kirker, you've read your histories,
you know the war was being lost and would have
been lost, and by all accounts should have been lost
when you look at how things turned, and that would

(26:49):
have made our involvement very different. But Pearl Harbor became
a moment that changed the history of the world. And
when you go back and look at the Japanese leadership's
decision to strike from their side, we had cut off

(27:13):
their fuel source. It's almost as if FDR was provoking
them to do that which they should not have done.
Stupid move, you have awakened the giant. Stupid move, you
have overstepped. The great Japanese Empire was devastated literally and figuratively.

(27:42):
I mean it changed Japan forever from what it was dramatically,
and all of that comes down to the bombing at
Pearl Harbor. Sometimes in great loss, you know, we look
back now and you know, we're preparing for Jeopardy. We go, Yeah,

(28:04):
they knew when he was crossing the Wahoo, and here
was the first notification, and they send this over here,
and here's what happened a Pearl Harbor, and here's how
many people died. And here's the ships.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
And then here's the kids from Willamette that were there.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
They hand them a rifle and they walked around the perimeter,
and here's this, and then we entered the Japanese and
it's almost as if, yeah, it happened, and that's how
it was. You know, like somebody wrote a screenplay and
everybody got their script and they read for the script
and you got the role, and everybody played their role. No,
that's not how it happened. You go back and look
at the newsreels of the time. You go back and
look at the coverage. This was frightening. We didn't have

(28:41):
the internet. I went to Japan in December for the
first time of my life, and I've been wanting to
go my entire life. But since then I've talked to
more people who've been than have it. A lot of
people have been to Japan. Back then, nobody had been
to Japan and that simple commercial air you know right now,

(29:02):
you don't have to go to Jaman. I mean it's
better if you do. But you can go online and
look up everything. You can see videos, photos, You can
learn so much about Japan. You can have an understanding
of their people. You can read what they have to
say translated for you, and most of them speak English.
Back then, we didn't know how strong the Japanese were.

(29:24):
Their strength was legendary, and for good reason. These are
people who had conquered China and made their women into
comfort women, into prostitutes. This was a powerful empire and
they had bombed us. We were afraid and we were angry,

(29:46):
and out of that rose up the power that would
end the aggression in the Pacific theater and for that matter,
in Europe.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Not overnight. It took a while. So you think about
that moment, and.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
If you could have known, I see what has happened
as that moment, Charlie's assassination, Charlie becoming a martyr.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Look at the people.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
Who danced on his grave, so to speak. Look at
how companies are being intolerant of that that hate. Look
at how the New York Yankees were the first to
put his picture up and they told the rest of
the league it's okay to do it. The NFL cede

(30:46):
lamb calling for doing it. Look at the number of
players praying the coach at Oregon will what he Dan
Lanning just to make Look at how many of the
of these vigials that are being held. Look at the churches,

(31:07):
how they swelled on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Look at how how many young people.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
Look at the number of people who have applied, the
number of campuses that did not have a turning point chapter.
The turning Point staff can't keep up. This was a moment, folks,
But this is so much more than just a moment
and a bullet and a death.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
It is a movement.

Speaker 4 (31:37):
Charlie's wife was right, This is something so much bigger
and that is a legacy that Charlie Kirk in his
just thirty.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
One years

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Makes him one of the all time grades