Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It's all about best show prep comes from listeners. That's
why I read every email. The perspectives people have when
there's a fire and a firefighter writes in, or where
there's a response to a crime and police officers will
write in, or when we're in the middle of war
and veterans will write in. Sometimes it is that you've
(00:24):
discovered a podcast and the host would be an interesting guest,
and why they would be an interesting guest. So Scott
sent me an email. I don't know Scott, and he says,
I'm emailing about a recent book release from a fellow
named doctor Greg Gifford. It's called Lies. My therapist told
me I think he would be an amazing interview on
(00:45):
your show, and it's the sort of things you like
to talk about. He went on as to why this
would be a particular, particularly good guest from a Christian counselor,
professor and podcaster, a critique of the mental health establishment
from his perspective, and I said, you have my attention. Therefore,
(01:07):
our guest is doctor Greg Gifford. Welcome to the program.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Why did you need to write a book, what was
the purpose what did you hope to accomplish? I mean,
it's a pretty it's a pretty eye catching title. Lies
my therapist told.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Me, right right, Well, I wrote the book first of all,
because counselors often are dealing with the downstream issues of
how to counsel somebody and how to help somebody with
anxiety or depression. But instead of instead of focusing there,
I wanted to actually get at the upstream issues of
(01:45):
why is mental health getting worse in America? Why is
there a complex, an industrial complex that's growing, Why are
more people on psychotropics? And instead of doing the how
to help someone on psychotropics book, I wanted to try
to learn why is the problem getting worse? So really
that question sent me on the maybe downward spiral or
(02:06):
the trajectory of writing this book.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And let's talk about how that came to be. Why
is that the case?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, as I began to read and learn how the
mental health movement came about, it came down to the
father of the mental health movement, and Clifford Whittingham Beers,
and he started using the term mental and brain synonymously,
so he would talk about mental hygiene, for instance, and
(02:36):
the mental health movement was actually the mental hygiene movement
to begin with, and he started using things like medical
doctors for the mind and wanted us to implement a psychiatrist,
a medical doctor for the mind, as Europe is already doing.
So he's saying this in the turn of the twentieth
century and saying we need medical doctors for our minds.
And I began to think, Oh, that's interesting because as
(02:57):
a Christian, the Bible teaches that the mind is immaterial.
It's part of our inner person. It's not a physical reality,
it's an immaterial reality. So that little nugget started to
become the mind versus the brain. And are we talking
about a brain issue, the organ of your brain, or
are we talking about the mind, the immaterial aspect of
(03:18):
who we are. And because the mental health movement has
combined those too, there have been many misdiagnoses which lead
to wrong prognoses as well. If you get the problem wrong,
you get the solution wrong every time.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Do you think that these errors as you see them,
or poor courses of action, are by design or by default?
How does this end up happening?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I mean this is me speculating on it. So
I think the fair question, Michael. The reality is I'm
usually a pretty charitable person, so I'm not typically skeptical
or overly cynical. So that means that I don't think
it's by design. I think we live in a naturalistic
world looking for naturalistic explanations of why we face what
(04:08):
we face. So if you're going to just come up
with a material solution, then the mental health enterprise is
a natural answer. And why do we do that? You
go back to Darwin, like, the physical is all there is,
The material is all there is. So there must be
a physical or material reason for why I'm doing what
I'm doing, Why I'm sad, why I'm anxious, while I'm
(04:29):
struggling with past experiences. There must be a material reason.
And that's where the blame it on the brain mental
health complex really comes in.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, and you know, one of my great frustrations with
the medical establishment. I'm not familiar with your body of work,
but one of my great frustrations is an overreliance on
pharmaceutical products, an overreliance on things that cost money when
there are things that are free or very little money,
more more, more water in your diet, that there is
(05:05):
this dependency on billable items for industries that have so
affected sort of traditional physical health. And what I'm hearing
from you is that's also true for mental health treatment.
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
No, right, I make that case. In the book there's
a section on incentivized diagnosing, and I show I mean
it's these are factual. So there are many people who
will disagree with my conclusions, but these are facts that
you really can't get around. Which is Number one, you
have to find a diagnosis, a mental health diagnosis to
build an insurance company. And what are you getting paid
(05:44):
for by the insurance company. You're treating depression or ADHD.
So that's one incentive, and it's a huge one, especially
if you're spending seventeen minutes with your doctor, who then
finds a code with which to bill your insurance. Second,
is a school have to test in order for you
to get additional resources. You have to either have a
(06:05):
learning disability or some mental health impairment. So now we
need a diagnosis to get you a tutor, so to speak.
And that's an incentive, whereas we could just get you
the tutor not diagnosed, but we need that diagnosis because
of IDA so there's like three or four different examples
where I show that this isn't even the nethereous side,
(06:28):
I mean, inevitably the total depravity of man. It means
that we are bad in every way. And that does
mean they are individuals and the secular mental health enterprise
that are in it for the money and they're in
it for a career. Or it's the psychotropic you know
industry where you're making money off of antidepressants. I mean,
(06:50):
of course that exists, you know, And so then a
Christian just has to be discerning. It's like, well, here's
what happens. You get an arbitrary mental illness, and then
my psychiatrist makes money off of this arbitrary illness, and
then pharmaceutical companies make money by me taking their antidepressant
for the rest of my life, and this is incentivized
(07:13):
for them, and I'm really the one losing in all
of this.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, the frustration here is that we should all start
from the premise that we want to provide healthcare for
our friends, neighbors, family, and there are all these things
getting in between. It feels like we're not making progress
as a society because so many things we were once
(07:40):
good at, we're less good at now and I find
that extraordinarily frustrating. Doctor Greg Giffert is our guest. The
book is called lies. My therapist told me we'll get
into more of those.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Lives listening to the Michael Berry Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Is Sexy Be Sexy? Doctor Greg Gifford is our guest.
The book is called Lies. My therapist told me. This
was a book that was recommended to me by a
listener who had read it and found it useful. Greg Gifford,
what do you want people to take away from this?
Once we understand that there are lies, our therapist is
(08:19):
telling us, what do you hope to accomplish? What should
the patient reader take away?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well, if it is true that mental health diagnoses are
on the rise and more people are on psychotropics than
they've ever been at any point in history, we have
to at least be discerning and skeptical and say, well,
maybe the secular therapeutic enterprise doesn't know what it's doing.
Is there something better? Is there a better alternative? And
that's where I would say, yes, there is the Bible.
(08:48):
God has created us, and the Bible has better answers.
And many have relegated the Bible to like cute Sunday
school hour where we talk about Jonah and the whale,
But the Bible actually addresses the deepest problem problems that
we have, and frames are anthropology, our understanding of ourselves,
our understanding of change, the purpose of our life. So
the takeaway for the reader or the listener is, I
(09:11):
think we're all sensing there's something wrong with the secular therapeutic.
Would you be open to seeing what the Bible has
to say about your problems?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, maybe the problem is that people are bifurcating church
and Bible study and their personal faith and their personal
Christian experience and separating that from healthcare, when maybe you're
saying there should be a better blend of that, because
(09:44):
the Bible is more than telling us to be nice
people or ten commandments. It's telling us how to live
our lives. I don't want to put words in your mouth,
but I'm trying to figure out.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yes, exactly, chease that out. So then think, all right,
when I'm go to church on Sunday and my pastor
preaches on anxiety, do I draw a line between that
and say, well, he's not a mental health professional, so
he doesn't really know what anxiety is like, or do
I say, wait a minute, maybe my mental health expert,
(10:15):
my therapist, psychologist, psychiaticy, maybe they really don't know what
anxiety is and my pastor is teaching me directly from
God's word. So if you're not careful, this is really
a view of the Bible that we're getting at. Where
do you believe that the Bible tells you everything that
you need to know for life and godliness? Or do
you believe that it tells you everything you need to
know for Sunday morning tending out a missionary, maybe Sunday
(10:41):
school teaching, But when it comes to the real issues
of life, the Bible is inadequate or the Bible doesn't
talk about those things. That is the doctrine of the
sufficiency of scripture, which is that God has provided in
his word all that we need for life and godliness.
And that's my basic contention. Even if a reader doesn't
agree with some of my data, which are all cited,
(11:01):
or if a reader doesn't agree with the difference of
the mind in the brain, do you believe as a
Christian that God has provided in his word all that
you need? And if the secular therapeutics not helping you.
Would you just give it a shot? Would you be
open to it? Because if you have this secular sacred divide,
you're going to see your pastor as being well intended
(11:22):
and the Bible is being good, but it's not adequate.
And what I'm saying is the opposite, where it's like, no,
the Bible is adequate, and not only adequate, like it's enough,
but it's actually superior than what we are hearing anywhere,
especially in the secular therapeutic.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So what would be an example of that, What would
be a problem where the Bible is enough and we
don't need a drug or we don't need the secular approach.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah. So, currently, generalized anxiety disorder is an actual mental disorder,
and you could go to a psychiatrist medical doctor and
be diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. But if you're using
that term anxiety in the same way that the Bible
uses that term anxiety, this is a Matthew sixth issue
or a Philippian's floor issue, which is I don't have
(12:13):
a medical problem, I actually have a faith problem. And
there is room for repentance and growing in trust in
the word. So if I'm not careful. I go to
my therapist and they tell me I have a medical
issue and I can't control it, and I can manage
symptoms with medications, Whereas the true Biblical answer is, if
we're talking about anxiety and the same way the Bible
(12:33):
talks about anxiety, I actually need to repent of that
and grow in my trust in the Lord and put
on a vision of who God really is is sovereign
and wise and good. So the wrong diagnosis of generalized
anxiety disorder, it's going to lead to a wrong solution.
And for reframing this, then think of the implications of this, Michael. So,
(12:55):
now instead of me finding transformation or healing or total growth,
managing symptoms for the rest of my life gad, Whereas
what the Bible office is that you can actually be transformed,
which is totally new, made new, or restored to a
mint condition. So I'm not managing symptoms for thirty years.
I'm actually a different person. So it's even a much
(13:17):
more hopeful model if we'll just go back to the
Bible instead of letting in the secular therapeutic be our authority.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
It's very interesting. What about your thought on therapists who
may say that they bring a Christian approach or a
biblical approach to this rather than a traditional or more
common secular approach.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Right, And that is true. There are individuals who have
been primarily trained in Rogerian counseling, humanistic psychology, psychoanalysis, whatever
field that they've been trained in. They're a Christian. They
believe in Jesus, they believe in salvation by faith alone
in Christs. That's totally true. The question is what pair
(14:09):
of eyeglasses are you using. Are you using Abraham Maslow's
pair of eyeglasses, are you using Carl Rogers or Sigmund
Freud's or are you using the Bible as the eyeglasses
through which you're viewing the problem, the solution to the problem,
and how to actually maintain so your methods for change
(14:29):
long term. So if a person saying, you know what,
I'm using the Bible as the lens through which I'm
viewing everything and helping my counsel ease or my clients,
and I would say good for you, like that's the
way that it should be done. But if you're sprinkling
a proverb into your counseling and ninety nine percent of
your counseling is actually what Abraham Maslow said or Carl
(14:51):
Roger said. Neither of them were believers are claimed to be.
Then you're not really doing what you're claiming to do.
You're inserting a proverb here in there about whatever topic,
and then you're primarily using the worldview of Rogers or
Maslow or Floyd.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
It's very interesting because it does strike me that many
people sort of have compartments in their lives. You know,
here's the compartment for church and Bible study and the Word,
and then here's the compartment for during the week, and
(15:30):
I stop off at counseling on my way home when
I leave early on Thursday, and that those two would
not be the same, where at least for a believer,
you would have to think that you would want the
consistency because they're very different messages and they're very different medicines.
And it's a very very interesting perspective. I'm Out of Time.
(15:55):
The book is by doctor Greg Gifford. Lies my therapist
told me, giving us a lot to think about. Thank you,
you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Thank you like to.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Michael Berry Show and podcast. Please tell one friend and
if you're so inclined write a nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions,
and interest in being a corporate sponsor and partner can
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(16:27):
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(16:53):
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(17:14):
bless the memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be
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bless America. Finally, if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD,
call Camp Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven
(17:35):
PTSD and a combat veteran will answer the phone to
provide free counseling.
The Michael Berry Show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It's all about best show prep comes from listeners. That's
why I read every email. The perspectives people have when
there's a fire and a firefighter writes in, or where
there's a response to a crime and police officers will
write in, or when we're in the middle of war
and veterans will write in. Sometimes it is that you've
(00:24):
discovered a podcast and the host would be an interesting guest,
and why they would be an interesting guest. So Scott
sent me an email. I don't know Scott, and he says,
I'm emailing about a recent book release from a fellow
named doctor Greg Gifford. It's called Lies. My therapist told
me I think he would be an amazing interview on
(00:45):
your show, and it's the sort of things you like
to talk about. He went on as to why this
would be a particular, particularly good guest from a Christian counselor,
professor and podcaster, a critique of the mental health establishment
from his perspective, and I said, you have my attention. Therefore,
(01:07):
our guest is doctor Greg Gifford. Welcome to the program.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Why did you need to write a book, what was
the purpose what did you hope to accomplish? I mean,
it's a pretty it's a pretty eye catching title. Lies
my therapist told.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Me, right right, Well, I wrote the book first of all,
because counselors often are dealing with the downstream issues of
how to counsel somebody and how to help somebody with
anxiety or depression. But instead of instead of focusing there,
I wanted to actually get at the upstream issues of
(01:45):
why is mental health getting worse in America? Why is
there a complex, an industrial complex that's growing, Why are
more people on psychotropics? And instead of doing the how
to help someone on psychotropics book, I wanted to try
to learn why is the problem getting worse? So really
that question sent me on the maybe downward spiral or
(02:06):
the trajectory of writing this book.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And let's talk about how that came to be. Why
is that the case?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, as I began to read and learn how the
mental health movement came about, it came down to the
father of the mental health movement, and Clifford Whittingham Beers,
and he started using the term mental and brain synonymously,
so he would talk about mental hygiene, for instance, and
(02:36):
the mental health movement was actually the mental hygiene movement
to begin with, and he started using things like medical
doctors for the mind and wanted us to implement a psychiatrist,
a medical doctor for the mind, as Europe is already doing.
So he's saying this in the turn of the twentieth
century and saying we need medical doctors for our minds.
And I began to think, Oh, that's interesting because as
(02:57):
a Christian, the Bible teaches that the mind is immaterial.
It's part of our inner person. It's not a physical reality,
it's an immaterial reality. So that little nugget started to
become the mind versus the brain. And are we talking
about a brain issue, the organ of your brain, or
are we talking about the mind, the immaterial aspect of
(03:18):
who we are. And because the mental health movement has
combined those too, there have been many misdiagnoses which lead
to wrong prognoses as well. If you get the problem wrong,
you get the solution wrong every time.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Do you think that these errors as you see them,
or poor courses of action, are by design or by default?
How does this end up happening?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I mean this is me speculating on it. So
I think the fair question, Michael. The reality is I'm
usually a pretty charitable person, so I'm not typically skeptical
or overly cynical. So that means that I don't think
it's by design. I think we live in a naturalistic
world looking for naturalistic explanations of why we face what
(04:08):
we face. So if you're going to just come up
with a material solution, then the mental health enterprise is
a natural answer. And why do we do that? You
go back to Darwin, like, the physical is all there is,
The material is all there is. So there must be
a physical or material reason for why I'm doing what
I'm doing, Why I'm sad, why I'm anxious, while I'm
(04:29):
struggling with past experiences. There must be a material reason.
And that's where the blame it on the brain mental
health complex really comes in.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, and you know, one of my great frustrations with
the medical establishment. I'm not familiar with your body of work,
but one of my great frustrations is an overreliance on
pharmaceutical products, an overreliance on things that cost money when
there are things that are free or very little money,
more more, more water in your diet, that there is
(05:05):
this dependency on billable items for industries that have so
affected sort of traditional physical health. And what I'm hearing
from you is that's also true for mental health treatment.
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
No, right, I make that case. In the book there's
a section on incentivized diagnosing, and I show I mean
it's these are factual. So there are many people who
will disagree with my conclusions, but these are facts that
you really can't get around. Which is Number one, you
have to find a diagnosis, a mental health diagnosis to
build an insurance company. And what are you getting paid
(05:44):
for by the insurance company. You're treating depression or ADHD.
So that's one incentive, and it's a huge one, especially
if you're spending seventeen minutes with your doctor, who then
finds a code with which to bill your insurance. Second,
is a school have to test in order for you
to get additional resources. You have to either have a
(06:05):
learning disability or some mental health impairment. So now we
need a diagnosis to get you a tutor, so to speak.
And that's an incentive, whereas we could just get you
the tutor not diagnosed, but we need that diagnosis because
of IDA so there's like three or four different examples
where I show that this isn't even the nethereous side,
(06:28):
I mean, inevitably the total depravity of man. It means
that we are bad in every way. And that does
mean they are individuals and the secular mental health enterprise
that are in it for the money and they're in
it for a career. Or it's the psychotropic you know
industry where you're making money off of antidepressants. I mean,
(06:50):
of course that exists, you know, And so then a
Christian just has to be discerning. It's like, well, here's
what happens. You get an arbitrary mental illness, and then
my psychiatrist makes money off of this arbitrary illness, and
then pharmaceutical companies make money by me taking their antidepressant
for the rest of my life, and this is incentivized
(07:13):
for them, and I'm really the one losing in all
of this.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, the frustration here is that we should all start
from the premise that we want to provide healthcare for
our friends, neighbors, family, and there are all these things
getting in between. It feels like we're not making progress
as a society because so many things we were once
(07:40):
good at, we're less good at now and I find
that extraordinarily frustrating. Doctor Greg Giffert is our guest. The
book is called lies. My therapist told me we'll get
into more of those.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Lives listening to the Michael Berry Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Is Sexy Be Sexy? Doctor Greg Gifford is our guest.
The book is called Lies. My therapist told me. This
was a book that was recommended to me by a
listener who had read it and found it useful. Greg Gifford,
what do you want people to take away from this?
Once we understand that there are lies, our therapist is
(08:19):
telling us, what do you hope to accomplish? What should
the patient reader take away?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well, if it is true that mental health diagnoses are
on the rise and more people are on psychotropics than
they've ever been at any point in history, we have
to at least be discerning and skeptical and say, well,
maybe the secular therapeutic enterprise doesn't know what it's doing.
Is there something better? Is there a better alternative? And
that's where I would say, yes, there is the Bible.
(08:48):
God has created us, and the Bible has better answers.
And many have relegated the Bible to like cute Sunday
school hour where we talk about Jonah and the whale,
But the Bible actually addresses the deepest problem problems that
we have, and frames are anthropology, our understanding of ourselves,
our understanding of change, the purpose of our life. So
the takeaway for the reader or the listener is, I
(09:11):
think we're all sensing there's something wrong with the secular therapeutic.
Would you be open to seeing what the Bible has
to say about your problems?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, maybe the problem is that people are bifurcating church
and Bible study and their personal faith and their personal
Christian experience and separating that from healthcare, when maybe you're
saying there should be a better blend of that, because
(09:44):
the Bible is more than telling us to be nice
people or ten commandments. It's telling us how to live
our lives. I don't want to put words in your mouth,
but I'm trying to figure out.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yes, exactly, chease that out. So then think, all right,
when I'm go to church on Sunday and my pastor
preaches on anxiety, do I draw a line between that
and say, well, he's not a mental health professional, so
he doesn't really know what anxiety is like, or do
I say, wait a minute, maybe my mental health expert,
(10:15):
my therapist, psychologist, psychiaticy, maybe they really don't know what
anxiety is and my pastor is teaching me directly from
God's word. So if you're not careful, this is really
a view of the Bible that we're getting at. Where
do you believe that the Bible tells you everything that
you need to know for life and godliness? Or do
you believe that it tells you everything you need to
know for Sunday morning tending out a missionary, maybe Sunday
(10:41):
school teaching, But when it comes to the real issues
of life, the Bible is inadequate or the Bible doesn't
talk about those things. That is the doctrine of the
sufficiency of scripture, which is that God has provided in
his word all that we need for life and godliness.
And that's my basic contention. Even if a reader doesn't
agree with some of my data, which are all cited,
(11:01):
or if a reader doesn't agree with the difference of
the mind in the brain, do you believe as a
Christian that God has provided in his word all that
you need? And if the secular therapeutics not helping you.
Would you just give it a shot? Would you be
open to it? Because if you have this secular sacred divide,
you're going to see your pastor as being well intended
(11:22):
and the Bible is being good, but it's not adequate.
And what I'm saying is the opposite, where it's like, no,
the Bible is adequate, and not only adequate, like it's enough,
but it's actually superior than what we are hearing anywhere,
especially in the secular therapeutic.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So what would be an example of that, What would
be a problem where the Bible is enough and we
don't need a drug or we don't need the secular approach.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah. So, currently, generalized anxiety disorder is an actual mental disorder,
and you could go to a psychiatrist medical doctor and
be diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. But if you're using
that term anxiety in the same way that the Bible
uses that term anxiety, this is a Matthew sixth issue
or a Philippian's floor issue, which is I don't have
(12:13):
a medical problem, I actually have a faith problem. And
there is room for repentance and growing in trust in
the word. So if I'm not careful. I go to
my therapist and they tell me I have a medical
issue and I can't control it, and I can manage
symptoms with medications, Whereas the true Biblical answer is, if
we're talking about anxiety and the same way the Bible
(12:33):
talks about anxiety, I actually need to repent of that
and grow in my trust in the Lord and put
on a vision of who God really is is sovereign
and wise and good. So the wrong diagnosis of generalized
anxiety disorder, it's going to lead to a wrong solution.
And for reframing this, then think of the implications of this, Michael. So,
(12:55):
now instead of me finding transformation or healing or total growth,
managing symptoms for the rest of my life gad, Whereas
what the Bible office is that you can actually be transformed,
which is totally new, made new, or restored to a
mint condition. So I'm not managing symptoms for thirty years.
I'm actually a different person. So it's even a much
(13:17):
more hopeful model if we'll just go back to the
Bible instead of letting in the secular therapeutic be our authority.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
It's very interesting. What about your thought on therapists who
may say that they bring a Christian approach or a
biblical approach to this rather than a traditional or more
common secular approach.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Right, And that is true. There are individuals who have
been primarily trained in Rogerian counseling, humanistic psychology, psychoanalysis, whatever
field that they've been trained in. They're a Christian. They
believe in Jesus, they believe in salvation by faith alone
in Christs. That's totally true. The question is what pair
(14:09):
of eyeglasses are you using. Are you using Abraham Maslow's
pair of eyeglasses, are you using Carl Rogers or Sigmund
Freud's or are you using the Bible as the eyeglasses
through which you're viewing the problem, the solution to the problem,
and how to actually maintain so your methods for change
(14:29):
long term. So if a person saying, you know what,
I'm using the Bible as the lens through which I'm
viewing everything and helping my counsel ease or my clients,
and I would say good for you, like that's the
way that it should be done. But if you're sprinkling
a proverb into your counseling and ninety nine percent of
your counseling is actually what Abraham Maslow said or Carl
(14:51):
Roger said. Neither of them were believers are claimed to be.
Then you're not really doing what you're claiming to do.
You're inserting a proverb here in there about whatever topic,
and then you're primarily using the worldview of Rogers or
Maslow or Floyd.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
It's very interesting because it does strike me that many
people sort of have compartments in their lives. You know,
here's the compartment for church and Bible study and the Word,
and then here's the compartment for during the week, and
(15:30):
I stop off at counseling on my way home when
I leave early on Thursday, and that those two would
not be the same, where at least for a believer,
you would have to think that you would want the
consistency because they're very different messages and they're very different medicines.
And it's a very very interesting perspective. I'm Out of Time.
(15:55):
The book is by doctor Greg Gifford. Lies my therapist
told me, giving us a lot to think about. Thank you,
you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Thank you like to.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Michael Berry Show and podcast. Please tell one friend and
if you're so inclined write a nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions,
and interest in being a corporate sponsor and partner can
be communicated directly to the show at our email address,
Michael at Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking
(16:27):
on our website, Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry
Show and Podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King
of Ding. Executive producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is
the creative director. Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery and Shenanigans are provided
(16:53):
by Chance McLain. Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily
Bull is our assists. Listener and superfan contributions are appreciated
and often incorporated into our production. Where possible, we give credit,
where not, we take all the credit for ourselves. God
(17:14):
bless the memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be
a simple man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God
bless America. Finally, if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD,
call Camp Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven
(17:35):
PTSD and a combat veteran will answer the phone to
provide free counseling.
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