December 5, 2024 • 42 mins
On Wednesday November, 27, 2024, the night before Thanksgiving, Governor Gavin Newsom of CA granted a a “full and unconditional” pardon to Earlonne Woods, co-host and co-creator of the award-winning podcast, Ear Hustle. Earlonne helped create Ear Hustle while incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison. In recognition of Earlonne’s achievement, we are sharing with you an episode of Wrongful Conviction where Earlonne appeared as a guest host. Congratulations Earlonne. We are eager to hear more from you in the future.
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On March 24, 1990, Felix “Carlos” Bastarrica was shot and killed on the street in San Francisco, CA. Following the shooting, Candido “Peter” Diaz, started rumors that one of Felix’s friends, Joaquin Ciria, was responsible. Relying on the rumors, police immediately targeted Joaquin and coerced 18-year-old George Varela – the man who drove the actual shooter to the crime – to falsely implicate Joaquin. Based primarily on this, and despite the complete lack of physical evidence linking him to the crime, Joaquin was convicted of murder and sentenced to 31 years to life in prison. Earlonne Woods talks to Joaquin Ciria and Paige Kaneb, Joaquin's attorney.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the night of March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Felix
Costo Rico was walking down an alley in San Francisco's
Mission District. Witnesses saw a man get out of a
white money Carlo and confront Felix, and the two started argument. Suddenly,
a shot rang out and Felix fell to the ground dead.
The shooter jumped back into the car and sped away
(00:22):
with another man at the wheel. By the next morning,
rumors were flying around the streets that the shooter was
a lifelong friend of Felix's, Joaquin Syria. They had grown
up together in Cuba. Word was that the two were
in a dispute over money. Joaquin had been out earlier
that evening with a friend who drove a white money Carlo,
but he claimed to be home with his wife and
(00:43):
baby son for the night by the time the crime
was committed. After viewing several lineups that included Joaquin's picture,
two eyewitnesses id'd him as the man they seen. One
witness claimed that she was eighty percent certain and that
was close enough for the jury. But this is wrongful conviction.
(01:16):
Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm Mariline Woods, co creator
and co hosts of the Ear Hustle podcast, guest hosting
for Jason Flummer Day, and I gotta tell you I
served over twenty seven years in prison, and I used
to always think about the people who were in here
that were actually innocent, you know, dealing with the day
to day grinding rigor of prison life. And that brings
(01:38):
us to our guest today, Joaquin Sarah, Joaquin, Welcome to
Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Thank you, thank you, cool cool.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And here to help tell Joaquin's story is Paige Knap.
She's the supervising attorney at the Northern California Innocent Project. Paige,
thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I am super excited to meet you, Arline. I'm
super happy to be with you. Morningquin.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Joaquin, Can you tell me, like, since you from Cuba,
what was your life like growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Growing now in Quwow? It was beautiful. It was beautiful,
you know for me to be a child growing now
in my country. You know, sorain them my family friend
and kill what you do a lot of teams you
know that you're not able to do in this country.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
You know, I remember you know that in kill what
we who to play?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You know in the three to one o'cloud two okline
the morning and it was no danger. Everybody know everybody,
you know, because it's an island. I had a royal
beautiful shaohoo.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Got you, got you, got you. So when you was
a youngster, the US and Cuba was beefing. You know,
they have a pretty fraud history, you know, the missile crisis,
the Communist revolt and bargoes. Not really a free flowing dialogue.
So I'm just curious, like, what were your impressions of
the United States back thing.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, let me let me tell you this. Everybody cu
what the majority we grow out believing everything that we're
watching the TV about the United States. We really believe
that Superman really exists. Anything that you go out from
United States, we really believe that. Brother, you know, you
know in we watch so brainwatched, you know that when
(03:24):
we're watching movie A Superman won the Woman.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
We really believe.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
That these type of people exist in the United States.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
You know, unbelievable. So this see how I grow.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Out and and and and Joaquin, you knew the victim
in this case, Phyllis Bastar Rica. When you were a
kid back in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You know, a Phyllis. We all call hi calitles. He
was close to my neighborhood, so mini mini minie time.
We who to skate from the school to go swimming
in the ocean.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
You know, go go eve some.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Mango sugar cane. Everybody liked to be around Philly. You know,
if you go into a party, you want him to
be there. He was only laughing all the time, making
a lot of joke. Definitely, he was a good friend, right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I'm just curious. Did you come from like a
political family over in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
My father he was a revolutionary, you know, he was
a Commonist. He fight with the Gostro you see, with
the gost got the power way. My father was a
part of that. Yeah, the majority of my family they
really believe, you know, in the Commonies. And it was
problem in the house, you know, because we all got
(04:46):
different views. Since my ely age, I got really really
big trouble to fit in the Commonist party. I got
trouble with that. So you know, at the age of eighteen,
I was called to be in the army. I was
in high school at that time, but they don't care.
That was a man that told it called you know
a lot of young people escape because we don't want
(05:09):
to do that, you know, to go fight to some
other country, like a lot of joints in Cuba, they
were saying to Angola to fight a lot of all
these young people got killed, you know, so may and
I say, oh, I don't want to do that. So
when I was called to be in the army, I
(05:29):
remember that I was there maybe for about sismon and
I escape.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
A lot of Johns say do that.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
After I escape, I go to my fatherly house and
I spend some time with my family. Into my father come,
I'm told me, and he said, you know what, walking,
I don't want no trouble with the government.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You have to give it, you say, do the right thing,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And and I respect my family, you know, I love
my father so most that they see how I end.
And you know, in prison, you know in Cuba, it's
not like right here, you know, right here out waiting
something hoppy to your yoka crying right in two or
three days they take.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
You to court your due process.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, in kill white diffity in Cilbai, they directed you,
Yeah you can be out there for one through three four. Yeah,
I do never go to court. Yeah, they see how
it is in Kiwa Damn.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So in May of nineteen eighty, after spending some time
in prison, you fled Cuba as a part of the
Mario Boat left, which from my understanding was a mass
migration of around one hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans
that was sanctioned by both Jimmy Carter and Fidale Castro.
(06:45):
You were still a teenager at that time, right, yeah,
And I want to ask you what do you remember
about the boat ride from Cuba to Florida? Because I
used to always see it on the news, you know,
individuals on floats and stuff like that coming from Cuba.
What what do you remember about that boat ride?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, Frosseto, to be honest with you, bro, I see
a lot of ball when I was in the ocean,
you know, and we're talking about a ball that you
might can pull twenty authority people in that ball.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So what the cube?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What government was doing this instead? Or pull twenty authorty people?
They who to put two hundred people in the bowl?
So imagining And let me tell you, mane, I see
with my own eyes how a lot of boat that's appeal,
you know, in the ocean. One minute that was next
(07:38):
to us, and when I look, it's not a te
an no more. It is like it is gone. So
it was really, really, really it was really ugly, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So fortunately for you you got here safely and you
landed in Key West, Florida. Can you tell me what
your feelings were when you first read the United States?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
At that moment, I feel, you know, I watched Happy. Yeah, yes,
I will hoppy completely. You know that I fleck. I
watched Happy. You know that I mean United State. That
I don't have to live in a field no more.
I don't have to water. You know about that. I
go in and they killed Bidy Govin ain't on Sonky
like that.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
I know.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I wasched in the most power with fo Komi in
the war. So that moment, anything that they told me
will believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So over the next few years, you kind of skipped
around to a few different cities and you finally ended
up in San Francisco living with a woman named Nellie Hernandez.
Nelly was a little older than you, and she had
six kids. And back then you were hanging out with
a couple of your partners from Cuba. Your childhood friend
Felix Costa Rica who had also made it to the US.
(08:54):
And a guy named Robert Socorro. And there was another
cat from Cuba that was a hustling name Candido ds
What did you know about him?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know, Candido dias A what I know about him?
You know that he's a cube one.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
He was living in San Francisco in the Sta Hotel,
you know, in nineteen ninety. And I never think, you know,
he had any type or bad feeling about me, a
fat that I know. You know, we're talking sometimes and
you know when you got the feeling that you don't
(09:30):
click with the person, you know, that's the way I feel,
that's the way he feel. But we never let it,
you know, past to the level or having any type
of problem with him.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, And when you was in San Francisco and me
asked us, what was the San Francisco Police Department?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Like, so in nineteen ninety in San Francisco Police Department,
it was really really really I could root department. I
already you know, listening in the three what they were doing,
(10:09):
how they plan drag on people car you know, and
and all that type of stuff. You know, of course
not everybody. Not every police is doing you know, some
really torig they've really got some a lot of bad apple,
you know in the San Francis Complete department, my twenty four,
(10:53):
nineteen ninety. You know, my personal life at that time
it was changing, you know for the betro You know,
I my baby's mama. You know, Johanna pays about almost
about a jayago before my son was born. I was
a happy man, you know at that time. I'm ah,
my friend, Oh, my friend. What's happy with me too?
(11:13):
You know, robto socorro he was happy if Phili they
who took coming to my house. It was a happy
time for me, right, you know at.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That time until, of course, your good friend Felix Basto
Rico was killed, which happened on the night of March
twenty four of nineteen ninety. So Paige, can you can
you walk us through what transpired that night?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, So what we know is that Felix Pasta Rica
was walking down the street with a plastic bag. We've
since learned from Roberto SoCoRo that Roberto was in hidings.
He had just killed someone and had asked Felix to
bring him some clothes and toilet trees and stuff. So
he's walking over to the bay Bridge Motel where Roberto is,
and in Clara Alley, which is sort of perpendicular to
(12:00):
the Baybridge Motel, there are people. There's a guy in
a car, Kenneth stuff, and there's a woman up in
the window, Kathleen Guovara, and they both hear this loud altercation,
this loud argument in the alleyway, and describe these two
people kind of walking back and forth interacting with each other.
There's a white Monte Carlo that the guy with the
gun gets out of and he shoots Felix Pastrica in
(12:23):
the street and jumps back in the white Monte Carlo
and drives off right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that even in Joaquin, you were spending time with
another friend, eighteen year old George Varilla, who was actually
the son of your former girlfriend Nellie Hernandez.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, me and Joe Barrela. We who to be real
close where he wasched, you know around a nine. Yeah. Oh,
we who to go to the video a keda all
the time we watch a DTA to play video. I'm
to be honesty, I feel you know, even when I
watched young I feel like he watch my son right.
(13:01):
He gould to come to my house almost every two
three days.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so can you tell us like what you and
you know George got into on the evening of March
twenty fourth, before y'all parted ways.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I remembered that nine that wasn't home with my family.
You know, I expaid that, you know, to stay home.
I was in May and I received a phone call
from your So when I got the phone, your started
told me and he said, hey, man, what you're doing?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
I said, man, I'm right here. You know. I spent
some time with Johanna and with my son.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Man.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I bow, why we don't go to play video?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So he conveys me and I go out with here
and he come out to peep me out.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
It is white Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, George Rilla drove a white money Carlo.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
He got a white Monte Carlo. He peeped me out.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Almost around seven o'clock, we go to that CAA to
play video. I remember that we got there almost around seven,
saving Tody with what play video?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Buado the Blue.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
He come out and told me and said, hey, what
can't I have to go back to my house because
my girlfriend she come out from Richmond. So to make
this toy show, we leave.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And when you left, you didn't go straight home. You
enjoyed stopped by Gallon's Bar first, where a lot of
Cubans and Puerto Ricans ain't got at to see if
you might meet up with a friend of yours there,
But instead you ran into another guy, Roberto Hernandez, who
was not exactly a friend.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
We don't get along, you know me and he got
a fire side. After I see my friend Manolo, I
talking with Manolo for a little while, and after the fight,
Joe Barrella take me home. I got to my house
around a twenty five h a toty navid, I leave.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
My how a game And did you know what you
was wearing that night? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, that's something that I never go and forget that
Navy because at that time, I don't know if you
remain me that a lot of young people Epecio, black
people like me, we who to with that type post
JACKI letter Jaki, you know that it was all colorful
letter Jaki. So say command the squad, So go Wan said,
(15:10):
how Roly so say Cobra got I don't think that
I think that I even can sleep with that Jackey
the how To Munch, I know, Michael Mama Squad. Yeah,
and they see how I get out out of my
house when yo body La piped me out.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, cool. So George dropped you off at around a
thirty and you spent the rest of the evening at
home with Johanna and your son. But by the next
day there was already a rumor going around that it
was you that killed Costa Rica, as you found out
from your friend Manolo when you went to Gallon's bar
the next.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Day, Manolo and some other people wastch outside the bottom.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
When Manolo see me, Manolo approaching me, you know how,
he said, hey, Waki, how you doing.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
My friend? You know, we brace and he said, man
why you don't leave the city.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And I look at here. I say, leady, CD, what
are you talking about? Manolo?
Speaker 4 (16:03):
He said, Maine Calito. Last night? You know, I'm the
rue noise that you beat it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And I say, hey, a stop playing like Tom made
do you show? What are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
He said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So when he told me now the Frost team that
is coming, you know, in my mind, I just say, oh,
Main's something Roman, and I just started to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And it came out later that Condido DZ was the
likely instigator of that rumor. But however it got started.
The two homicide detectives work in the case, Arc Gearns
and James Crowley.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Ran with that rumor, so Joaquin's name comes up really
fast in the investigation, and from as soon as they
get his name, he is the only person they ever
look into. And so essentially what you can see in
the police reports is the two homicide inspectors who have
Joaquin as their one and only suspects, start showing his
picture to the two eyewitnesses, neither of whom identify him.
(16:58):
They ask her, well, who looks most like the shooter,
and she says, well, she points to Joaquin's photo and
says he looks most like the shooter, but she doesn't
say it's him, and the guy in the car says
he doesn't pick anybody out, but they still keep their
focus entirely on Joaquin.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
But Joaquin didn't even match the descriptions that the two
witnesses gave right, No.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so the police did get descriptions from the eyewitnesses
of the shooter and the things they describe because they
both sort of say they see him from a distance,
kind of the silhouette. They say he's got an afro,
and that he's wearing this long trench coat. And we
know from independent witnesses, including the guy Joaquin got in
a fight with, who you know, didn't like him and
had no reason to lie for him, that Joaquin's hair
(17:40):
is in a long Jerry curl, not in an afro,
and he's wearing this short, short leather jacket and not
a long trench coat. And in fact, no one had
ever seen Joaquin ever in a trench coat, and he
didn't even own a trench coat.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know, thank god that I just stopped at the
gotta battle because you see everybody see me how I
want the race, everybody, the people the same, the DeFi
They've remained me how I watched the race.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
They've remained me that I got a Jerry krail.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, even when they search the house, they're never
able to find anything to connect Joaquin, and and so
you know, it doesn't match. He doesn't match the descriptions,
and he's got an alibi. His his girlfriend and their
roommate tell the police from the very beginning that he's
home that night. By eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nevertheless, Garan's and Crowdy stay focused on Joaquin as a suspect.
And so at that point, Joaquin, you went to the
police station on your own, correct.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I cannot take a no moment. I cannot take a nomo.
You watch some more rumo that I said, mag I
have to go talk to with the homo side. I
have to go talk to with the homo side, bolutality.
I go with my loyo to speak to the homo side.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
About two and a half weeks after the shooting, and
he tells them that he was with George Ferrella in
the white Monte Carlo, and he tells them how to
find George, says, I, you know, I dated it a
his mother, Nellie Hernandez. They live at this address. Here's
what he looks like. Here's the car he drives, I mean,
basically everything they need and they pull in George Verilla
(19:10):
and George is initially saying, well, I can tell you
what happened up until the time Joaquin and I split up,
and then he says he went home after and he says, well,
I probably I probably went somewhere after though, and they
never ask him where did you go? Instead, what they say,
is we know Joaquin was the shooter. You're going to
go down for this murder. He's you know, George is eighteen.
They tell him, you're going to go down for this
murder unless you stop lying and covering up for Joaquin,
(19:34):
And they essentially tell him like, he's just got to
say that Joaquin is the guy in the car with
him at the time of the shooting, and that Joaquin
is the shooter. And George Verilla literally says, Okay, whatever
you said, and then he repeats the story that they
have now fed to him, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
M So I guess subsequently later you end up getting
arrested Joaquin, Yes, and you end up getting arrested based
on a confession from George.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Or at least from George saying exactly what the police
told them to say.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Okay, so he was he fabricated her from the offices
Garren's and Crowley.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean, they tell him he's got to say
it's Joaquin. That's like. Then they keep going back to
the eyewitnesses. Basically, the witnesses make positive ideas only after
they're repeatedly shown Joaquin, and for one of them, she
doesn't even make a first positive Ida until the preliminary
hearing when he's literally sitting in a red jumpsuit at
the defense table, and then she's like, oh, I'm sure
that's the guy. And she says it's based on his
(20:32):
attitude that she can see is how she's identifying. I mean,
there's a lot of racism all through this trial, Like
she even says, I think they were speaking African.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So on April nineteen, nineteen ninety, Joaquin, you were arrested
in charged with first degree murder. Bro what was going
through your head? I mean, did you even think this
shit was real?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Let me tell you these woop not even when I
washed my are you I really believe that everything worth real?
I was thinking that I was in I can't the
camera show looking all these people coming and poilem me
with a finger. Yeah, that the main And in my
mind I said main, I know, I know the camera
(21:17):
is going come o and they go and say a
smile you in camera, you know, because that was a
famite show at the time. I go to watch that
show tomorrow, you know, and I and I say, you
know what, I mean, what happened to me? I cannot
believe it you. You cannot, being innocent, believe that what
(21:40):
is happening to you is real. You cannot, you know,
and that's what happened to me. And you know, to
respond to your question, no, you know, I steel, don't
get it, I steal. You don't even get it. Main
you're being charged with frost the good morning.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
How you feel them getting so?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
George had actually kind of disappeared, George Urella, he'd not
shown up for the prelim, he was missing leading up
to the trial. I honestly believe Joaquin's attorney just didn't
think he was even going to have to deal with George.
It was just going to be this eyewitness I D case.
And so he did I think a fairly good job,
you know, showing all these discrepancies between the descriptions and
(22:25):
what Joaquin actually looked like, their own inconsistent statements and
kind of the evolution of their ideas. He did a
nice job of showing that George Verrella's timeline didn't make
any sense, that there was this like big gap in
between the way he says what they did that night
and how he drove Joaquin home. His timelines that lines
up with Joaquines that Joaquin is home long before the
(22:47):
murder happens. But what he missed, what he didn't manage
to do. And one of the things I really respect
about him is that he actually gave us a declaration
saying he was ineffective because he didn't present to the jury.
The jury never heard that Joaquin's name came from the
homicide inspectors first, and that they told Verrella essentially that
he had to identify Joaquin, so the jury just never
(23:09):
heard that. What they heard instead was this guy who
knows Joaquin, who'd grown up with him around is saying
he's the guy who was with me in my car
and who got out and shot him. And then he
hears that corroborated by these two independent eyewitnesses, and Joaquin's
attorney presented witnesses who describe what Joaquin looked like that night,
(23:29):
how he had Jerry Curl in the short jacket, but
he never presented the alibi witnesses. So they also didn't
hear that Joaquin was at home with his one month
old son and that they had a good reason to
remember that night because they were going to celebrate the
one month anniversary of his birth the next day, So
you know, they knew that George Verrella was incentivized, they
knew he got immunity, they knew he was in and
(23:51):
out of trouble. So it wasn't a super strong case
even with what they heard. But what they never heard
was anything else about someone else actually did it, or
that Joaquin had this really credible alibi, and so they
end up convicting him.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It don't matter if I'm trying to explain to you
a thousand times, I cannot even feeling close to really
really tell you how I feel when they come out
with a guilty verity. You know, everything inside me stopped, everything,
(24:33):
I stop breeding, my heart stopped.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
It is a feeling that that you can never you
can never explain how it is.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
That they find you guilty, especial find me guilty or
the moory of my bed frameming that's what really killed me.
How can I be doing time for the money of
my beayfriend made somebody that I love Even to today,
(25:31):
I ain't the almost opened Pelican by presume in what
the more tough prisum in the Californias sisting at the time.
I see people when they told these people you go
into Pelican Bay, I see grown Maine crumbled in the
floor and crying when I was in some queen, you know.
(25:51):
And I ask the people. I say, hey, man, why
he crying? I said, man, you don't know where we're going.
He said, we're going to Pelican be And I say,
say what a body? I said, Cuba. Let me tell
you man, it is no joke. He said, may wait
util you get there.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You know it was true.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
You know when I gotta tell you, Maine, every time
that you heal alarm sound in that prison, it was
not a first alarm. It was somebody got killed, you know.
And I said, man, how did I ain't in there?
But my mind is still do not stopping play some
(26:35):
trick on me? I remember, you know. I who to
weigh into my said go to sleep. And I had
to cover my head with the blanket reyal tie and
I had to close my eyes royal tie. And I
had to say, Maine, when I open my eyes, now,
when I open my eyes, now, I know this.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Is a three. This is a three. I go and
being home, we might sign with my baby's mama. This
is a three. Man, this is a three. I went,
I got Cobby might sell. I need to sell.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
You know, I say, wow, man, this is real mm hm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So I gotta ask you, man, like, how did you
hold on to hope so much for all those years?
Because I always always say, you know, for a person
that committed crime, it's hard, you know, to deal with
the time, But for an innocent person sitting there, it's
a whole different level because you're going through everything, whether
it's the violence in the prison, the abuse from the cops.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Whatever it is, the CEOs, whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So how did you hold on the hope that you
would get out?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
You know why?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
In the beginning I watched completely ain't good with God?
Everything that I got in my mayis how did I
go and prove that I don't do.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
What I can do? You know?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And the good thing about it is and thank God,
you know, to all the emails, you know, in every
priest that I be, brother, in every priest that I be,
every email, believe on me, hm, they can see through
into my heart. They can see through into the type
(28:25):
of man that I was. You know, this call it homies, homeboy.
They're asking me working and why are you here for?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Man?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And I say, man, brother, they give me totally one
year to life. Or a model that I not comke.
I'm taking God. They say, hey, man, you know what
I mean, I believe you? What can I believe you?
And I say thank you man. And I received so
much respect. I receive the respect that the systems don't
(28:57):
give it to me. I got an e all these
email the respect that deceasedent denight to me. I got
in it from all these people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And page can you can you walk us through the
post conviction litigation? I mean didn't evidently nothing worked for him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean you got to give Jaquen credit like
he litigated his case to the nines, like he got
himself into federal court. I know you had helped from
jail health lawyers. Have a lot of respect for jail
health lawyers. And I mean, unfortunately the courts just refused
to look at it and refuse to listen. But what
eventually happened was Joaquin had earned the respect not only
(29:39):
of other incarcerated folks, but also some of the free staff.
And we were contacted by this guy, Ray Leonardini, who
ran a meditation circle that Joaquin was a part of,
and also Ellen Egger's pro bono attorney who have partnered
with in a few cases, was helping another guy with
parole who told her, you have to meet Joaquin, like
he's actually innocent and you need to help them. And
(30:02):
so Ellen went and met Joaquin. He told her everything.
She like everybody, found him very compelling and believable, and
so she The first thing asked her to do was
go talk to George Verilla's sister, Denise Courcier, and Allan
did that and Denise told her, my brother told me
that Joaquin is innocent, that it was another Cuban man,
(30:24):
and that the police really wanted Joaquin, and George was
scared of them, and so he went along with what
they wanted. But what really turned the case around was
when Roberto Scoro got out of prison. He went to
Cuba and he tracked down Joaquin's family and told them
that he personally knew that Joaquin was innocent because he
had actually seen the whole thing from his motel room.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And listeners, remember, Roberto Cicoro was another friend of Joaquin's.
The day before all of this happened, Roberto had killed
this other guy named Ruben Alfonso, and he was hiding
out at the Bay Bridge motel, waiting on Phoenix to
bring up some clothes when he heard Felix southside argon
with Candido Diaz.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They had been fighting over over a gun and not
paying for the gun, and so he recognized their voices
and they start coming in and out of his view,
and you know, he hears the gunshot and he runs
out and he sees Candido get into the white Monte
Carlo and drive away, and he basically broke down and
apologized to Joaquin's family and explained that while he was
(31:25):
in he'd been a shot caller initially, and so he
felt like, you know, in addition to the normal amount
of trouble you can get in in prison for snitching,
that he, especially as someone who'd sort of enforced those rules,
would be even more in danger. And for a long
time he'd hope to be able to get his own revenge,
that at some point Candido would get locked up and
(31:46):
he would be able to avenge Felix's death, and in
some ways, fortunately that never happened, and instead he gets
out and tells the truth, and that really broke open
the case.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And Ellen also tracked down a couple of people that
George Varilla had talked to and had told them Joaquin
was innocent. One was Joaquin's sister Denise, and the other
was a woman named Katie dad Gonzales.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She was friends with Nellie Hernandez, George's mother, and also
knew Joaquin through Nelly and through the Cuban community. George
tells her also, so it's very similar to what he
said to Denise that he knows Joaquin is innocent and
didn't do this. And so we had these two statements
from George Verilla to two different people saying that Joaquin
was innocent and also saying that it was another Cuban man.
(32:32):
And so Candye Rodez is not only Cuban but also
matches the original description. He was always had his hair
in an afro. He was known to wear long trench coats.
And it turns out he'd had this, you know, ongoing
and escalating feud with Felix Pasta Rica right before the murder,
and it all started over the weapon that may actually
have been used, A forty four, which was actually the
(32:54):
weapon they said was used to kill Felix Basta Rica.
So Ellen had done most of the investigation by the
time she came to me, and it was only the
Roberto piece that came afterwards, but we really felt like
that pushed it over the top. And then the Innocence
Commission also got an eyewitness ID expert to look at
the eyewitnesses and just really explain and under the social
(33:15):
science that we now know even more why all of
those all the reasons eyewitness identifications are unreliable, but were
especially so in this case.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Well not just unreliable, I believe one of the witnesses,
Kathleen Gavada, had another reason to identify Joaquin.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know, the same woman I say from the Beginni,
now that I hold the po say SHOLDI DMin I
only atey poucing and lao you know CHI give it
defending change and watch you see well Chila.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
So Paige, after all this new information you put in
front of them, did the courts quickly agree that Joaquin
was innocent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I mean we expected them to, especially because the DA's
office was on board, and.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
That was District Ernie chesso Bodin, who was repeatedly under
fire from the police union and adversaries. There were I
think like two recall elections, so his political foot and
was never secure and he was the one that was
making the recommendation based on the Innocence Commission findings.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
They had this separate Innocence Commission, right, that was supposed
to be this independent body. It had DA's public defenders, experts,
law professors, you know, like this whole commission of different
stakeholders who all agreed Joaquin is fully innocent. And in
my experience, usually when that happens, the courts are pretty
willing to go along pretty quickly, right, But unfortunately we
had the exact opposite experience here, and I can only
(34:38):
imagine some of that was the politics going on in
San Francisco. The court essentially just the first thing they
did was ask us to do another round of briefing,
and they invited the Attorney General's office, in which you
know doesn't generally happen in superior court. But here's the
court saying, you know, District Attorney, I don't trust what
you have to say, and so Attorney General, I'm inviting
you in to tell me something different. Fortunately, the AG's
(35:02):
office also saw that this wasn't a case to oppose.
Everything pointed to Jaquin's innocence. There's no reliable evidence of
guilt anywhere. But even after you know, a second round
of briefing in the AG's office, refusing to come in.
They still had us have an evident you're hearing, And
so here we are both sides arguing for the same thing.
So we're both presenting opening statements on Joaquin being innocent,
(35:24):
and then we're both doing closing arguments about how he's
entitled to relief and how we all believe he's innocent
and the judge should reverse his conviction. Luckily, by then
we'd been switched to a different judge, was a really good,
experienced judge and just saw all the problems with the case.
And then finally, on April eighteenth, the court reversed Joaquin's
conviction and the district attorneys again announced he was innocent.
(35:48):
They dismissed all of the charges.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Man, I almost fail to be fluw.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yes to go out to the freedom that I want
deny for almost thirty two years, and I don't even
know how to make it all the way to the door,
you know, And I keep walking. I'm walking on imagin
you know, when when they open the door to me
and I see, you know, I see pay ailing, my
(36:19):
son and my baby's mama, I see everybody. Man, it
was too much for me. I say, my god, it
was a day unbelievable, this type of feeling. You have
to really go through that for you can really have
the thing what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable. Yeah, I'm with you
on that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And of course we're all super grateful to the Northern
California Innocent Project and the fantastic work that they do
because it's through them that people like Joaquin can you know,
have a chance to get back to this free world.
So if anyone want to show the Northern California Innocent
Projects some love, we'll have the link in the bios
so you can do that. So we've got to the
(37:09):
point of the show where we do this thing called
closing arguments. And first I want to thank you all
for being here, and I also want to ask y'all
to share your final thoughts for the listeners, you know,
anything that you want to say, any takeaway you may have,
and page I want to first start with you and
then we can close with Joaquin.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the thing that I think we haven't done a
great job of yet, especially in San Francisco, is like
we know, there was this era in which they were
treating especially young black men terribly and saw themselves as
like cleaning up the streets by somehow getting people involved
in homicides and throwing them away for life. And there
are six people who've been exonerated out of San Francisco,
(37:53):
all of them are black men, and five of them
are from this nineteen ninety era. They all have incredible story.
You should look into all of them. Joaquin, Maurice Caldwell,
Antoine Goff, John Tennyson, and Kara mad Conley, who I
know you've already interviewed, But what we haven't done is
look back at what else went wrong there. So it
shouldn't be luck of the draw, right whose cases get
(38:14):
looked at and who gets picked up? And so Headjoaquin
not you know, convinced other incarcerated folks that he was
innocent and then one of them meeting Allen like you know,
this luck of the draw thing. It's not okay for
justice to be that arbitrary with what little justice exists
in our system. And so my hope and listeners, I'd
(38:35):
love for you to encourage this is that we actually
look back. There's four homicide investigators who were involved in
all of these cases, we could look at their cases,
we could look at all cases from this era. You know,
cdcr's budget for this year is over fourteen billion dollars.
Just imagine what would happen if we just spent a
tiny fraction of that on actually looking for where things
(38:56):
went wrong, starting with the places we already know things
went Everybody should have a chance to prove themselves nons
as bad as the worst thing they've ever done. And
you know, these guys who have done all this time
like you are, Land, like Kyuki, and who have come
out and shown like I mean, one of the things
I just love also about what you've been doing is
just highlighting the humanity of people right whether they're incarcerated
(39:19):
or not. We are all have this huge amount to
offer and give, and I just would love for us
to stop leaving so many people behind and really start
focusing on using our resources in better ways.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
What I want to say, you know, to all be listening.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I want to leave everybody know that what happened to
me is continually happening right now, and the only way
it can be at top we all have to come
out together and do something about it. I always say,
if we're capable to go to the moon, we have
(39:57):
to be capable to prevent the anal.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Same pace go to prison. Simple like that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
How can you go to the moon but you cannot
prebay in one person to go to prison. It saying
I know right now, at this moment, in some part
of the country in a court house, somebody's going to
prison right now being INNO say it is no doubt
in my mind. And he going through for the same
(40:24):
thing that I go through when I was in that position.
I know we can stop it. I know we can
do so anything about it because I know Number one
is we need to make the dis Ratney accountable for
any wrong doing that they do. And I said the
(40:45):
every dish Ratney. No, we got some really good dist
rattorney that they do their job. They go by the
law and they honesty people, how walking people. But we
got some other one that they don't care, they don't
get They want to wing our case O this face
it or the ego same people.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
We have to stop dot.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your guest host
Erline Woods. I like to thank executive producers Jason Flumm
and Kevin Waters for inviting me to be here good
Looking Special thanks to our wonderful production team Connor Hall,
Annie Chelsea, Lila Robinson and Jeff Clyburn. The music in
this production comes from three time Oscar Numbernee Jay Raff.
(41:38):
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
Rome Conviction, as well as Lava for Good. On all
three platforms. You can find me online at Erline Woods,
and you can find my podcast ear Hustle wherever you
listen to podcasts. Wrongful Conviction is a producttion to Blober
(42:00):
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
On the night of March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Felix
Costo Rico was walking down an alley in San Francisco's
Mission District. Witnesses saw a man get out of a
white money Carlo and confront Felix, and the two started argument. Suddenly,
a shot rang out and Felix fell to the ground dead.
The shooter jumped back into the car and sped away
(00:22):
with another man at the wheel. By the next morning,
rumors were flying around the streets that the shooter was
a lifelong friend of Felix's, Joaquin Syria. They had grown
up together in Cuba. Word was that the two were
in a dispute over money. Joaquin had been out earlier
that evening with a friend who drove a white money Carlo,
but he claimed to be home with his wife and
(00:43):
baby son for the night by the time the crime
was committed. After viewing several lineups that included Joaquin's picture,
two eyewitnesses id'd him as the man they seen. One
witness claimed that she was eighty percent certain and that
was close enough for the jury. But this is wrongful conviction.
(01:16):
Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm Mariline Woods, co creator
and co hosts of the Ear Hustle podcast, guest hosting
for Jason Flummer Day, and I gotta tell you I
served over twenty seven years in prison, and I used
to always think about the people who were in here
that were actually innocent, you know, dealing with the day
to day grinding rigor of prison life. And that brings
(01:38):
us to our guest today, Joaquin Sarah, Joaquin, Welcome to
Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Thank you, thank you, cool cool.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And here to help tell Joaquin's story is Paige Knap.
She's the supervising attorney at the Northern California Innocent Project. Paige,
thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I am super excited to meet you, Arline. I'm
super happy to be with you. Morningquin.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Joaquin, Can you tell me, like, since you from Cuba,
what was your life like growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Growing now in Quwow? It was beautiful. It was beautiful,
you know for me to be a child growing now
in my country. You know, sorain them my family friend
and kill what you do a lot of teams you
know that you're not able to do in this country.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
You know, I remember you know that in kill what
we who to play?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You know in the three to one o'cloud two okline
the morning and it was no danger. Everybody know everybody,
you know, because it's an island. I had a royal
beautiful shaohoo.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Got you, got you, got you. So when you was
a youngster, the US and Cuba was beefing. You know,
they have a pretty fraud history, you know, the missile crisis,
the Communist revolt and bargoes. Not really a free flowing dialogue.
So I'm just curious, like, what were your impressions of
the United States back thing.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, let me let me tell you this. Everybody cu
what the majority we grow out believing everything that we're
watching the TV about the United States. We really believe
that Superman really exists. Anything that you go out from
United States, we really believe that. Brother, you know, you
know in we watch so brainwatched, you know that when
(03:24):
we're watching movie A Superman won the Woman.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
We really believe.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
That these type of people exist in the United States.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
You know, unbelievable. So this see how I grow.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Out and and and and Joaquin, you knew the victim
in this case, Phyllis Bastar Rica. When you were a
kid back in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You know, a Phyllis. We all call hi calitles. He
was close to my neighborhood, so mini mini minie time.
We who to skate from the school to go swimming
in the ocean.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
You know, go go eve some.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Mango sugar cane. Everybody liked to be around Philly. You know,
if you go into a party, you want him to
be there. He was only laughing all the time, making
a lot of joke. Definitely, he was a good friend, right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I'm just curious. Did you come from like a
political family over in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
My father he was a revolutionary, you know, he was
a Commonist. He fight with the Gostro you see, with
the gost got the power way. My father was a
part of that. Yeah, the majority of my family they
really believe, you know, in the Commonies. And it was
problem in the house, you know, because we all got
(04:46):
different views. Since my ely age, I got really really
big trouble to fit in the Commonist party. I got
trouble with that. So you know, at the age of eighteen,
I was called to be in the army. I was
in high school at that time, but they don't care.
That was a man that told it called you know
a lot of young people escape because we don't want
(05:09):
to do that, you know, to go fight to some
other country, like a lot of joints in Cuba, they
were saying to Angola to fight a lot of all
these young people got killed, you know, so may and
I say, oh, I don't want to do that. So
when I was called to be in the army, I
(05:29):
remember that I was there maybe for about sismon and
I escape.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
A lot of Johns say do that.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
After I escape, I go to my fatherly house and
I spend some time with my family. Into my father come,
I'm told me, and he said, you know what, walking,
I don't want no trouble with the government.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You have to give it, you say, do the right thing,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And and I respect my family, you know, I love
my father so most that they see how I end.
And you know, in prison, you know in Cuba, it's
not like right here, you know, right here out waiting
something hoppy to your yoka crying right in two or
three days they take.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
You to court your due process.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, in kill white diffity in Cilbai, they directed you,
Yeah you can be out there for one through three four. Yeah,
I do never go to court. Yeah, they see how
it is in Kiwa Damn.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So in May of nineteen eighty, after spending some time
in prison, you fled Cuba as a part of the
Mario Boat left, which from my understanding was a mass
migration of around one hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans
that was sanctioned by both Jimmy Carter and Fidale Castro.
(06:45):
You were still a teenager at that time, right, yeah,
And I want to ask you what do you remember
about the boat ride from Cuba to Florida? Because I
used to always see it on the news, you know,
individuals on floats and stuff like that coming from Cuba.
What what do you remember about that boat ride?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, Frosseto, to be honest with you, bro, I see
a lot of ball when I was in the ocean,
you know, and we're talking about a ball that you
might can pull twenty authority people in that ball.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So what the cube?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What government was doing this instead? Or pull twenty authorty people?
They who to put two hundred people in the bowl?
So imagining And let me tell you, mane, I see
with my own eyes how a lot of boat that's appeal,
you know, in the ocean. One minute that was next
(07:38):
to us, and when I look, it's not a te
an no more. It is like it is gone. So
it was really, really, really it was really ugly, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So fortunately for you you got here safely and you
landed in Key West, Florida. Can you tell me what
your feelings were when you first read the United States?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
At that moment, I feel, you know, I watched Happy. Yeah, yes,
I will hoppy completely. You know that I fleck. I
watched Happy. You know that I mean United State. That
I don't have to live in a field no more.
I don't have to water. You know about that. I
go in and they killed Bidy Govin ain't on Sonky
like that.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
I know.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I wasched in the most power with fo Komi in
the war. So that moment, anything that they told me
will believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So over the next few years, you kind of skipped
around to a few different cities and you finally ended
up in San Francisco living with a woman named Nellie Hernandez.
Nelly was a little older than you, and she had
six kids. And back then you were hanging out with
a couple of your partners from Cuba. Your childhood friend
Felix Costa Rica who had also made it to the US.
(08:54):
And a guy named Robert Socorro. And there was another
cat from Cuba that was a hustling name Candido ds
What did you know about him?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know, Candido dias A what I know about him?
You know that he's a cube one.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
He was living in San Francisco in the Sta Hotel,
you know, in nineteen ninety. And I never think, you know,
he had any type or bad feeling about me, a
fat that I know. You know, we're talking sometimes and
you know when you got the feeling that you don't
(09:30):
click with the person, you know, that's the way I feel,
that's the way he feel. But we never let it,
you know, past to the level or having any type
of problem with him.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, And when you was in San Francisco and me
asked us, what was the San Francisco Police Department?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Like, so in nineteen ninety in San Francisco Police Department,
it was really really really I could root department. I
already you know, listening in the three what they were doing,
(10:09):
how they plan drag on people car you know, and
and all that type of stuff. You know, of course
not everybody. Not every police is doing you know, some
really torig they've really got some a lot of bad apple,
you know in the San Francis Complete department, my twenty four,
(10:53):
nineteen ninety. You know, my personal life at that time
it was changing, you know for the betro You know,
I my baby's mama. You know, Johanna pays about almost
about a jayago before my son was born. I was
a happy man, you know at that time. I'm ah,
my friend, Oh, my friend. What's happy with me too?
(11:13):
You know, robto socorro he was happy if Phili they
who took coming to my house. It was a happy
time for me, right, you know at.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That time until, of course, your good friend Felix Basto
Rico was killed, which happened on the night of March
twenty four of nineteen ninety. So Paige, can you can
you walk us through what transpired that night?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, So what we know is that Felix Pasta Rica
was walking down the street with a plastic bag. We've
since learned from Roberto SoCoRo that Roberto was in hidings.
He had just killed someone and had asked Felix to
bring him some clothes and toilet trees and stuff. So
he's walking over to the bay Bridge Motel where Roberto is,
and in Clara Alley, which is sort of perpendicular to
(12:00):
the Baybridge Motel, there are people. There's a guy in
a car, Kenneth stuff, and there's a woman up in
the window, Kathleen Guovara, and they both hear this loud altercation,
this loud argument in the alleyway, and describe these two
people kind of walking back and forth interacting with each other.
There's a white Monte Carlo that the guy with the
gun gets out of and he shoots Felix Pastrica in
(12:23):
the street and jumps back in the white Monte Carlo
and drives off right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that even in Joaquin, you were spending time with
another friend, eighteen year old George Varilla, who was actually
the son of your former girlfriend Nellie Hernandez.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, me and Joe Barrela. We who to be real
close where he wasched, you know around a nine. Yeah. Oh,
we who to go to the video a keda all
the time we watch a DTA to play video. I'm
to be honesty, I feel you know, even when I
watched young I feel like he watch my son right.
(13:01):
He gould to come to my house almost every two
three days.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so can you tell us like what you and
you know George got into on the evening of March
twenty fourth, before y'all parted ways.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I remembered that nine that wasn't home with my family.
You know, I expaid that, you know, to stay home.
I was in May and I received a phone call
from your So when I got the phone, your started
told me and he said, hey, man, what you're doing?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
I said, man, I'm right here. You know. I spent
some time with Johanna and with my son.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Man.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I bow, why we don't go to play video?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So he conveys me and I go out with here
and he come out to peep me out.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
It is white Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, George Rilla drove a white money Carlo.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
He got a white Monte Carlo. He peeped me out.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Almost around seven o'clock, we go to that CAA to
play video. I remember that we got there almost around seven,
saving Tody with what play video?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Buado the Blue.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
He come out and told me and said, hey, what
can't I have to go back to my house because
my girlfriend she come out from Richmond. So to make
this toy show, we leave.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And when you left, you didn't go straight home. You
enjoyed stopped by Gallon's Bar first, where a lot of
Cubans and Puerto Ricans ain't got at to see if
you might meet up with a friend of yours there,
But instead you ran into another guy, Roberto Hernandez, who
was not exactly a friend.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
We don't get along, you know me and he got
a fire side. After I see my friend Manolo, I
talking with Manolo for a little while, and after the fight,
Joe Barrella take me home. I got to my house
around a twenty five h a toty navid, I leave.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
My how a game And did you know what you
was wearing that night? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, that's something that I never go and forget that
Navy because at that time, I don't know if you
remain me that a lot of young people Epecio, black
people like me, we who to with that type post
JACKI letter Jaki, you know that it was all colorful
letter Jaki. So say command the squad, So go Wan said,
(15:10):
how Roly so say Cobra got I don't think that
I think that I even can sleep with that Jackey
the how To Munch, I know, Michael Mama Squad. Yeah,
and they see how I get out out of my
house when yo body La piped me out.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, cool. So George dropped you off at around a
thirty and you spent the rest of the evening at
home with Johanna and your son. But by the next
day there was already a rumor going around that it
was you that killed Costa Rica, as you found out
from your friend Manolo when you went to Gallon's bar
the next.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Day, Manolo and some other people wastch outside the bottom.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
When Manolo see me, Manolo approaching me, you know how,
he said, hey, Waki, how you doing.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
My friend? You know, we brace and he said, man
why you don't leave the city.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And I look at here. I say, leady, CD, what
are you talking about? Manolo?
Speaker 4 (16:03):
He said, Maine Calito. Last night? You know, I'm the
rue noise that you beat it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And I say, hey, a stop playing like Tom made
do you show? What are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
He said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So when he told me now the Frost team that
is coming, you know, in my mind, I just say, oh,
Main's something Roman, and I just started to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And it came out later that Condido DZ was the
likely instigator of that rumor. But however it got started.
The two homicide detectives work in the case, Arc Gearns
and James Crowley.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Ran with that rumor, so Joaquin's name comes up really
fast in the investigation, and from as soon as they
get his name, he is the only person they ever
look into. And so essentially what you can see in
the police reports is the two homicide inspectors who have
Joaquin as their one and only suspects, start showing his
picture to the two eyewitnesses, neither of whom identify him.
(16:58):
They ask her, well, who looks most like the shooter,
and she says, well, she points to Joaquin's photo and
says he looks most like the shooter, but she doesn't
say it's him, and the guy in the car says
he doesn't pick anybody out, but they still keep their
focus entirely on Joaquin.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
But Joaquin didn't even match the descriptions that the two
witnesses gave right, No.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so the police did get descriptions from the eyewitnesses
of the shooter and the things they describe because they
both sort of say they see him from a distance,
kind of the silhouette. They say he's got an afro,
and that he's wearing this long trench coat. And we
know from independent witnesses, including the guy Joaquin got in
a fight with, who you know, didn't like him and
had no reason to lie for him, that Joaquin's hair
(17:40):
is in a long Jerry curl, not in an afro,
and he's wearing this short, short leather jacket and not
a long trench coat. And in fact, no one had
ever seen Joaquin ever in a trench coat, and he
didn't even own a trench coat.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know, thank god that I just stopped at the
gotta battle because you see everybody see me how I
want the race, everybody, the people the same, the DeFi
They've remained me how I watched the race.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
They've remained me that I got a Jerry krail.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, even when they search the house, they're never
able to find anything to connect Joaquin, and and so
you know, it doesn't match. He doesn't match the descriptions,
and he's got an alibi. His his girlfriend and their
roommate tell the police from the very beginning that he's
home that night. By eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nevertheless, Garan's and Crowdy stay focused on Joaquin as a suspect.
And so at that point, Joaquin, you went to the
police station on your own, correct.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I cannot take a no moment. I cannot take a nomo.
You watch some more rumo that I said, mag I
have to go talk to with the homo side. I
have to go talk to with the homo side, bolutality.
I go with my loyo to speak to the homo side.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
About two and a half weeks after the shooting, and
he tells them that he was with George Ferrella in
the white Monte Carlo, and he tells them how to
find George, says, I, you know, I dated it a
his mother, Nellie Hernandez. They live at this address. Here's
what he looks like. Here's the car he drives, I mean,
basically everything they need and they pull in George Verilla
(19:10):
and George is initially saying, well, I can tell you
what happened up until the time Joaquin and I split up,
and then he says he went home after and he says, well,
I probably I probably went somewhere after though, and they
never ask him where did you go? Instead, what they say,
is we know Joaquin was the shooter. You're going to
go down for this murder. He's you know, George is eighteen.
They tell him, you're going to go down for this
murder unless you stop lying and covering up for Joaquin,
(19:34):
And they essentially tell him like, he's just got to
say that Joaquin is the guy in the car with
him at the time of the shooting, and that Joaquin
is the shooter. And George Verilla literally says, Okay, whatever
you said, and then he repeats the story that they
have now fed to him, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
M So I guess subsequently later you end up getting
arrested Joaquin, Yes, and you end up getting arrested based
on a confession from George.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Or at least from George saying exactly what the police
told them to say.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Okay, so he was he fabricated her from the offices
Garren's and Crowley.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean, they tell him he's got to say
it's Joaquin. That's like. Then they keep going back to
the eyewitnesses. Basically, the witnesses make positive ideas only after
they're repeatedly shown Joaquin, and for one of them, she
doesn't even make a first positive Ida until the preliminary
hearing when he's literally sitting in a red jumpsuit at
the defense table, and then she's like, oh, I'm sure
that's the guy. And she says it's based on his
(20:32):
attitude that she can see is how she's identifying. I mean,
there's a lot of racism all through this trial, Like
she even says, I think they were speaking African.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So on April nineteen, nineteen ninety, Joaquin, you were arrested
in charged with first degree murder. Bro what was going
through your head? I mean, did you even think this
shit was real?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Let me tell you these woop not even when I
washed my are you I really believe that everything worth real?
I was thinking that I was in I can't the
camera show looking all these people coming and poilem me
with a finger. Yeah, that the main And in my
mind I said main, I know, I know the camera
(21:17):
is going come o and they go and say a
smile you in camera, you know, because that was a
famite show at the time. I go to watch that
show tomorrow, you know, and I and I say, you
know what, I mean, what happened to me? I cannot
believe it you. You cannot, being innocent, believe that what
(21:40):
is happening to you is real. You cannot, you know,
and that's what happened to me. And you know, to
respond to your question, no, you know, I steel, don't
get it, I steal. You don't even get it. Main
you're being charged with frost the good morning.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
How you feel them getting so?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
George had actually kind of disappeared, George Urella, he'd not
shown up for the prelim, he was missing leading up
to the trial. I honestly believe Joaquin's attorney just didn't
think he was even going to have to deal with George.
It was just going to be this eyewitness I D case.
And so he did I think a fairly good job,
you know, showing all these discrepancies between the descriptions and
(22:25):
what Joaquin actually looked like, their own inconsistent statements and
kind of the evolution of their ideas. He did a
nice job of showing that George Verrella's timeline didn't make
any sense, that there was this like big gap in
between the way he says what they did that night
and how he drove Joaquin home. His timelines that lines
up with Joaquines that Joaquin is home long before the
(22:47):
murder happens. But what he missed, what he didn't manage
to do. And one of the things I really respect
about him is that he actually gave us a declaration
saying he was ineffective because he didn't present to the jury.
The jury never heard that Joaquin's name came from the
homicide inspectors first, and that they told Verrella essentially that
he had to identify Joaquin, so the jury just never
(23:09):
heard that. What they heard instead was this guy who
knows Joaquin, who'd grown up with him around is saying
he's the guy who was with me in my car
and who got out and shot him. And then he
hears that corroborated by these two independent eyewitnesses, and Joaquin's
attorney presented witnesses who describe what Joaquin looked like that night,
(23:29):
how he had Jerry Curl in the short jacket, but
he never presented the alibi witnesses. So they also didn't
hear that Joaquin was at home with his one month
old son and that they had a good reason to
remember that night because they were going to celebrate the
one month anniversary of his birth the next day, So
you know, they knew that George Verrella was incentivized, they
knew he got immunity, they knew he was in and
(23:51):
out of trouble. So it wasn't a super strong case
even with what they heard. But what they never heard
was anything else about someone else actually did it, or
that Joaquin had this really credible alibi, and so they
end up convicting him.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It don't matter if I'm trying to explain to you
a thousand times, I cannot even feeling close to really
really tell you how I feel when they come out
with a guilty verity. You know, everything inside me stopped, everything,
(24:33):
I stop breeding, my heart stopped.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
It is a feeling that that you can never you
can never explain how it is.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
That they find you guilty, especial find me guilty or
the moory of my bed frameming that's what really killed me.
How can I be doing time for the money of
my beayfriend made somebody that I love Even to today,
(25:31):
I ain't the almost opened Pelican by presume in what
the more tough prisum in the Californias sisting at the time.
I see people when they told these people you go
into Pelican Bay, I see grown Maine crumbled in the
floor and crying when I was in some queen, you know.
(25:51):
And I ask the people. I say, hey, man, why
he crying? I said, man, you don't know where we're going.
He said, we're going to Pelican be And I say,
say what a body? I said, Cuba. Let me tell
you man, it is no joke. He said, may wait
util you get there.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You know it was true.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
You know when I gotta tell you, Maine, every time
that you heal alarm sound in that prison, it was
not a first alarm. It was somebody got killed, you know.
And I said, man, how did I ain't in there?
But my mind is still do not stopping play some
(26:35):
trick on me? I remember, you know. I who to
weigh into my said go to sleep. And I had
to cover my head with the blanket reyal tie and
I had to close my eyes royal tie. And I
had to say, Maine, when I open my eyes, now,
when I open my eyes, now, I know this.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Is a three. This is a three. I go and
being home, we might sign with my baby's mama. This
is a three. Man, this is a three. I went,
I got Cobby might sell. I need to sell.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
You know, I say, wow, man, this is real mm hm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So I gotta ask you, man, like, how did you
hold on to hope so much for all those years?
Because I always always say, you know, for a person
that committed crime, it's hard, you know, to deal with
the time, But for an innocent person sitting there, it's
a whole different level because you're going through everything, whether
it's the violence in the prison, the abuse from the cops.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Whatever it is, the CEOs, whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So how did you hold on the hope that you
would get out?
Speaker 4 (27:48):
You know why?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
In the beginning I watched completely ain't good with God?
Everything that I got in my mayis how did I
go and prove that I don't do.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
What I can do? You know?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And the good thing about it is and thank God,
you know, to all the emails, you know, in every
priest that I be, brother, in every priest that I be,
every email, believe on me, hm, they can see through
into my heart. They can see through into the type
(28:25):
of man that I was. You know, this call it homies, homeboy.
They're asking me working and why are you here for?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Man?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And I say, man, brother, they give me totally one
year to life. Or a model that I not comke.
I'm taking God. They say, hey, man, you know what
I mean, I believe you? What can I believe you?
And I say thank you man. And I received so
much respect. I receive the respect that the systems don't
(28:57):
give it to me. I got an e all these
email the respect that deceasedent denight to me. I got
in it from all these people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And page can you can you walk us through the
post conviction litigation? I mean didn't evidently nothing worked for him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean you got to give Jaquen credit like
he litigated his case to the nines, like he got
himself into federal court. I know you had helped from
jail health lawyers. Have a lot of respect for jail
health lawyers. And I mean, unfortunately the courts just refused
to look at it and refuse to listen. But what
eventually happened was Joaquin had earned the respect not only
(29:39):
of other incarcerated folks, but also some of the free staff.
And we were contacted by this guy, Ray Leonardini, who
ran a meditation circle that Joaquin was a part of,
and also Ellen Egger's pro bono attorney who have partnered
with in a few cases, was helping another guy with
parole who told her, you have to meet Joaquin, like
he's actually innocent and you need to help them. And
(30:02):
so Ellen went and met Joaquin. He told her everything.
She like everybody, found him very compelling and believable, and
so she The first thing asked her to do was
go talk to George Verilla's sister, Denise Courcier, and Allan
did that and Denise told her, my brother told me
that Joaquin is innocent, that it was another Cuban man,
(30:24):
and that the police really wanted Joaquin, and George was
scared of them, and so he went along with what
they wanted. But what really turned the case around was
when Roberto Scoro got out of prison. He went to
Cuba and he tracked down Joaquin's family and told them
that he personally knew that Joaquin was innocent because he
had actually seen the whole thing from his motel room.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And listeners, remember, Roberto Cicoro was another friend of Joaquin's.
The day before all of this happened, Roberto had killed
this other guy named Ruben Alfonso, and he was hiding
out at the Bay Bridge motel, waiting on Phoenix to
bring up some clothes when he heard Felix southside argon
with Candido Diaz.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They had been fighting over over a gun and not
paying for the gun, and so he recognized their voices
and they start coming in and out of his view,
and you know, he hears the gunshot and he runs
out and he sees Candido get into the white Monte
Carlo and drive away, and he basically broke down and
apologized to Joaquin's family and explained that while he was
(31:25):
in he'd been a shot caller initially, and so he
felt like, you know, in addition to the normal amount
of trouble you can get in in prison for snitching,
that he, especially as someone who'd sort of enforced those rules,
would be even more in danger. And for a long
time he'd hope to be able to get his own revenge,
that at some point Candido would get locked up and
(31:46):
he would be able to avenge Felix's death, and in
some ways, fortunately that never happened, and instead he gets
out and tells the truth, and that really broke open
the case.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And Ellen also tracked down a couple of people that
George Varilla had talked to and had told them Joaquin
was innocent. One was Joaquin's sister Denise, and the other
was a woman named Katie dad Gonzales.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She was friends with Nellie Hernandez, George's mother, and also
knew Joaquin through Nelly and through the Cuban community. George
tells her also, so it's very similar to what he
said to Denise that he knows Joaquin is innocent and
didn't do this. And so we had these two statements
from George Verilla to two different people saying that Joaquin
was innocent and also saying that it was another Cuban man.
(32:32):
And so Candye Rodez is not only Cuban but also
matches the original description. He was always had his hair
in an afro. He was known to wear long trench coats.
And it turns out he'd had this, you know, ongoing
and escalating feud with Felix Pasta Rica right before the murder,
and it all started over the weapon that may actually
have been used, A forty four, which was actually the
(32:54):
weapon they said was used to kill Felix Basta Rica.
So Ellen had done most of the investigation by the
time she came to me, and it was only the
Roberto piece that came afterwards, but we really felt like
that pushed it over the top. And then the Innocence
Commission also got an eyewitness ID expert to look at
the eyewitnesses and just really explain and under the social
(33:15):
science that we now know even more why all of
those all the reasons eyewitness identifications are unreliable, but were
especially so in this case.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Well not just unreliable, I believe one of the witnesses,
Kathleen Gavada, had another reason to identify Joaquin.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know, the same woman I say from the Beginni,
now that I hold the po say SHOLDI DMin I
only atey poucing and lao you know CHI give it
defending change and watch you see well Chila.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
So Paige, after all this new information you put in
front of them, did the courts quickly agree that Joaquin
was innocent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I mean we expected them to, especially because the DA's
office was on board, and.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
That was District Ernie chesso Bodin, who was repeatedly under
fire from the police union and adversaries. There were I
think like two recall elections, so his political foot and
was never secure and he was the one that was
making the recommendation based on the Innocence Commission findings.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
They had this separate Innocence Commission, right, that was supposed
to be this independent body. It had DA's public defenders, experts,
law professors, you know, like this whole commission of different
stakeholders who all agreed Joaquin is fully innocent. And in
my experience, usually when that happens, the courts are pretty
willing to go along pretty quickly, right, But unfortunately we
had the exact opposite experience here, and I can only
(34:38):
imagine some of that was the politics going on in
San Francisco. The court essentially just the first thing they
did was ask us to do another round of briefing,
and they invited the Attorney General's office, in which you
know doesn't generally happen in superior court. But here's the
court saying, you know, District Attorney, I don't trust what
you have to say, and so Attorney General, I'm inviting
you in to tell me something different. Fortunately, the AG's
(35:02):
office also saw that this wasn't a case to oppose.
Everything pointed to Jaquin's innocence. There's no reliable evidence of
guilt anywhere. But even after you know, a second round
of briefing in the AG's office, refusing to come in.
They still had us have an evident you're hearing, And
so here we are both sides arguing for the same thing.
So we're both presenting opening statements on Joaquin being innocent,
(35:24):
and then we're both doing closing arguments about how he's
entitled to relief and how we all believe he's innocent
and the judge should reverse his conviction. Luckily, by then
we'd been switched to a different judge, was a really good,
experienced judge and just saw all the problems with the case.
And then finally, on April eighteenth, the court reversed Joaquin's
conviction and the district attorneys again announced he was innocent.
(35:48):
They dismissed all of the charges.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Man, I almost fail to be fluw.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yes to go out to the freedom that I want
deny for almost thirty two years, and I don't even
know how to make it all the way to the door,
you know, And I keep walking. I'm walking on imagin
you know, when when they open the door to me
and I see, you know, I see pay ailing, my
(36:19):
son and my baby's mama, I see everybody. Man, it
was too much for me. I say, my god, it
was a day unbelievable, this type of feeling. You have
to really go through that for you can really have
the thing what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable. Yeah, I'm with you
on that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And of course we're all super grateful to the Northern
California Innocent Project and the fantastic work that they do
because it's through them that people like Joaquin can you know,
have a chance to get back to this free world.
So if anyone want to show the Northern California Innocent
Projects some love, we'll have the link in the bios
so you can do that. So we've got to the
(37:09):
point of the show where we do this thing called
closing arguments. And first I want to thank you all
for being here, and I also want to ask y'all
to share your final thoughts for the listeners, you know,
anything that you want to say, any takeaway you may have,
and page I want to first start with you and
then we can close with Joaquin.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the thing that I think we haven't done a
great job of yet, especially in San Francisco, is like
we know, there was this era in which they were
treating especially young black men terribly and saw themselves as
like cleaning up the streets by somehow getting people involved
in homicides and throwing them away for life. And there
are six people who've been exonerated out of San Francisco,
(37:53):
all of them are black men, and five of them
are from this nineteen ninety era. They all have incredible story.
You should look into all of them. Joaquin, Maurice Caldwell,
Antoine Goff, John Tennyson, and Kara mad Conley, who I
know you've already interviewed, But what we haven't done is
look back at what else went wrong there. So it
shouldn't be luck of the draw, right whose cases get
(38:14):
looked at and who gets picked up? And so Headjoaquin
not you know, convinced other incarcerated folks that he was
innocent and then one of them meeting Allen like you know,
this luck of the draw thing. It's not okay for
justice to be that arbitrary with what little justice exists
in our system. And so my hope and listeners, I'd
(38:35):
love for you to encourage this is that we actually
look back. There's four homicide investigators who were involved in
all of these cases, we could look at their cases,
we could look at all cases from this era. You know,
cdcr's budget for this year is over fourteen billion dollars.
Just imagine what would happen if we just spent a
tiny fraction of that on actually looking for where things
(38:56):
went wrong, starting with the places we already know things
went Everybody should have a chance to prove themselves nons
as bad as the worst thing they've ever done. And
you know, these guys who have done all this time
like you are, Land, like Kyuki, and who have come
out and shown like I mean, one of the things
I just love also about what you've been doing is
just highlighting the humanity of people right whether they're incarcerated
(39:19):
or not. We are all have this huge amount to
offer and give, and I just would love for us
to stop leaving so many people behind and really start
focusing on using our resources in better ways.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
What I want to say, you know, to all be listening.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I want to leave everybody know that what happened to
me is continually happening right now, and the only way
it can be at top we all have to come
out together and do something about it. I always say,
if we're capable to go to the moon, we have
(39:57):
to be capable to prevent the anal.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Same pace go to prison. Simple like that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
How can you go to the moon but you cannot
prebay in one person to go to prison. It saying
I know right now, at this moment, in some part
of the country in a court house, somebody's going to
prison right now being INNO say it is no doubt
in my mind. And he going through for the same
(40:24):
thing that I go through when I was in that position.
I know we can stop it. I know we can
do so anything about it because I know Number one
is we need to make the dis Ratney accountable for
any wrong doing that they do. And I said the
(40:45):
every dish Ratney. No, we got some really good dist
rattorney that they do their job. They go by the
law and they honesty people, how walking people. But we
got some other one that they don't care, they don't
get They want to wing our case O this face
it or the ego same people.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
We have to stop dot.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your guest host
Erline Woods. I like to thank executive producers Jason Flumm
and Kevin Waters for inviting me to be here good
Looking Special thanks to our wonderful production team Connor Hall,
Annie Chelsea, Lila Robinson and Jeff Clyburn. The music in
this production comes from three time Oscar Numbernee Jay Raff.
(41:38):
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
Rome Conviction, as well as Lava for Good. On all
three platforms. You can find me online at Erline Woods,
and you can find my podcast ear Hustle wherever you
listen to podcasts. Wrongful Conviction is a producttion to Blober
(42:00):
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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