December 5, 2024 • 42 mins
On Wednesday November, 27, 2024, the night before Thanksgiving, Governor Gavin Newsom of CA granted a a “full and unconditional” pardon to Earlonne Woods, co-host and co-creator of the award-winning podcast, Ear Hustle. Earlonne helped create Ear Hustle while incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison. In recognition of Earlonne’s achievement, we are sharing with you an episode of Wrongful Conviction where Earlonne appeared as a guest host. Congratulations Earlonne. We are eager to hear more from you in the future.
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On March 24, 1990, Felix “Carlos” Bastarrica was shot and killed on the street in San Francisco, CA. Following the shooting, Candido “Peter” Diaz, started rumors that one of Felix’s friends, Joaquin Ciria, was responsible. Relying on the rumors, police immediately targeted Joaquin and coerced 18-year-old George Varela – the man who drove the actual shooter to the crime – to falsely implicate Joaquin. Based primarily on this, and despite the complete lack of physical evidence linking him to the crime, Joaquin was convicted of murder and sentenced to 31 years to life in prison. Earlonne Woods talks to Joaquin Ciria and Paige Kaneb, Joaquin's attorney.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the night of March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Felix
Costo Rico was walking down an alley in San Francisco's
Mission District. Witnesses saw a man get out of a
white money Carlo and confront Felix, and the two started arguing. Suddenly,
a shot rang out and Felix fell to the ground dead.
The shooter jumped back into the car and sped away
(00:22):
with another man at the wheel. By the next morning,
rumors were flying around the streets that the shooter was
a lifelong friend of Felix's, Joaquin Syria. They had grown
up together in Cuba. Word was that the two were
in a dispute over money. Joaquin had been out earlier
that evening with a friend who drove a white money Carlo,
but he claimed to be home with his wife and
(00:43):
baby son for the night by the time the crime
was committed. After viewing several lineups that included Joaquin's picture,
two eyewitnesses id'd him as the man they seen. One
witness claimed that she was eighty percent certain and that
was close enough for the jury. But this is wrongful conviction.
(01:16):
Welcome back to romeful conviction. I'm Mariline Woods, co creator
and co hosts of the Ear Hustle podcast, guest hosting
for Jason flummer Day. And I gotta tell you I
served over twenty seven years in prison, and I used
to always think about the people who were in here
that were actually innocent, you know, dealing with the day
to day grinding rigor of prison life. And that brings
(01:38):
us to our guest today, Joaquin Sariah. Joaquin. Welcome to
Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Cool cool. And here to help tell Joaquin's story is
Paige Kanap. She's the supervising attorney at the Northern California
Innocent Project. Paige, thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I am super excited to meet you, Arline. I'm
super happy to be with you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Morning. Joaquin. Can you tell me, like, since you from Cuba,
what was your life like growing up growing now in Kilwow?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It was beautiful. It was beautiful, you know for me
to be a child growing now in my country. You know,
so rein them my family frame and kill what you
do a lot of teams you know that you're not
able to do in this country. You know, I remember
you know that in kill what we who to play
you know in the three to one o'cloud two o'cline
(02:31):
the morning, and it was no dingy everybody know everybody,
you know, because it's an island. I had a royal
beautiful shaohoo.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Got you, got you, got you. So when you were
a youngster, the US and Cuba was beefing. You know,
they have a pretty fraud history, you know, the Missile crisis,
the Communist revolt and bargoes. Not really a free flowing dialogue.
So I'm just curious, like, what were your impressions of
the United States back.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, let me let me tell you this, man, everybody
c what the majority we grow out believing everything that
we're watching the TV about the United States. We really
believe that Superman really exists. Anything that you go out
from United States, we really believe that. Brother, you know,
you know in we watch so brainwatched, you know that
(03:24):
when we're watching movie A Superman, Wonder Woman, we really
believe that these type of people exist in the United States.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You know, unbelievable. So this see how I grow out
and and and and wa quing. You knew the victim
in this case, Phyllis bastar Rica. When you were a kid,
back in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You know, a Phillis we all call hi colitles. He
was close to my neighborhood, so mini mini minie time.
We who to skate from the school to go swimming
in the ocean, you know, go go hip some mango
sugar cane. Everybody liked to be around Philly. You know,
if you go into a party, you want him to
(04:09):
be there. He was only laughing all the time, making
a lot of joke. Definitely, he was a good friend, right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I'm just curious, did you come from like a
political family over in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
My father he was a revolutionary, you know, he was
a Commonist. He fight with they got through, you see,
if they got got the power way. My father was
a part of that. Yeah, the majority of my family
they really believed, you know, in the Commonies. And it
was problem in the house, you know, because we all
(04:46):
got different views. Since my ely age, I got really
really big trouble to fit in the Commonist party. I
got trouble with that. So you know, at the age
of eighteen, I was called to be in the army.
I was in high school at that time. But they
don't care. That was a man that told it called.
You know, a lot of young people escape because we
(05:09):
don't want to do that, you know, to go fight
to some other country, like a lot of Joonts in Cuba,
they were saying to Angola to fight a lot of
all these young people got killed, you know. So me
and I say, oh, I don't want to do that.
So when I was called to be in the army,
(05:29):
I remember that I was there maybe for about sismon
and I escape. A lot of Johns they do that.
After I escape, I go to my fatherly house and
I spend some time with my family. Into my father
come and told me, and he said, you know what,
walking I don't want no trouble with the government. You
(05:50):
have to give it, you say, do the right thing,
you know. And and I respect my family, you know,
I love my father so more that this is how
I aim. Then, you know, in prison, you know in Cuba,
it's not like right here, you know, right here, I
waiting something hoppy to your yoka crying right in two
or three days they take.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You to court your due process.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, in kull White difity in Culba, they directed you, Yeah,
you can be out thea for one through three four. Yeah,
I never go to court. Yeah, they see how it
is in Kiwa damn.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So in May of nineteen eighty, after spending some time
in prison, you fled Cuba as a part of the
Mario boat left, which from my understanding was a mass
migration of around one hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans
that was sanctioned by both Jimmy Carter and Fidale Castro.
(06:45):
You were still a teenager at that time, right, yeah,
And I want to ask you what do you remember
about the boat ride from Cuba to Florida because I
used to always see it on the news, you know,
individuals on floats and stuff like that coming from Cuba.
What what do you remember about that boat ride?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, Frosseto, to be honest with you, bro, I see
a lot of ball when I was in the ocean,
you know, and we're talking about a ball that you
might can pull twenty or thirty people in that ball.
So what the Cuba government was doing need instead or
pull twenty or thirty people? They who to put two
(07:22):
hundred people in the bowl. So imagining and let me
tell you, Mane, I see with my own eyes how
a lot of ball that's appeal you know, in the
ocean one minute that was next to us, and when
I look, it's not a te anomal, it is like
(07:42):
it is gone. So it was really, really really it
was really ugly, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So fortunately for you you got here safely and you
landed in Key West, Florida. Can you tell me what
your feelings were when you first read the United States?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
At that moment, I feel, you know, I watched Hoppy. Yeah, yah,
I wa Hoppy completely. You know that I fleck. I
watched Hoppy. You know that. I mean you not a
state that I don't have to live it a field
no more. I don't have to water, you know about that?
I going and they killed Biddy. Govin ain't on Sonty
like that. I know. I washed the most power with
(08:23):
fo komtri in the war. So that moment, anything that
they told me WILLILL believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So over the next few years, you kind of skipped
around to a few different cities and you finally ended
up in San Francisco living with a woman named Nellie Hernandez.
Nelly was a little older than you, and she has
six kids. And back then you were hanging out with
a couple of your partners from Cuba, your childhood friend
Felix Costa Rica who had also made it to the US.
(08:54):
And a guy named Robert Socorro. And there was another
cat from Cuba that was a hustler name Candido ds
What did you know about him?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know, Candido Dias, what I know about him? You
know that he's a cute one. You know, he was
living in San Francisco in the Sta Hotel, you know,
in nineteen ninety. And I never think, you know, he
had any typeo or bad feeling about me, a fat
(09:23):
that I know. You know, we're talking sometimes and you
know when you got the feeling that you don't click
with the persion, you know, that's the way I feel,
that the way he feel. But we never let it,
you know, past to the level or having any type
of problem with him.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, And when you was in San Francisco and asked
us what was the San Francisco Police Department like?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So in nineteen ninety in San Francisco Police Department, it
was really really really I could root department. I already
you know, listening in the three what they were doing,
how they brand drag on people car you know, and
and all that type of stuff. You know. Of course,
(10:18):
not everybody, not every police is doing you know, some
really Torigan, they really got some a lot of bad apple,
you know in the San Francis Complete department. Hyah my
(10:52):
twenty four, nineteen ninety. You know, my personal life at
that time it was changing, you know for the bet
you know, I mean my baby's mama, you know, Johanna
pays about almost about a jayago before my son was born.
I was a happy man, you know at that time,
and all my friend, oh, my friend, what's happy with
me too? You know, roveto socorro he was happy if
(11:15):
Philidy who took coming to my house. It was a
happy time for me, right, you know, at that time.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Until, of course, your good friend Felix Basto Rico was killed,
which happened on the night of March twenty fourth of
nineteen ninety. So Paige, can you can you walk us
through what transpired that night?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, So what we know is that Felix Pasta Rica
was walking down the street with a plastic bag. We've
since learned from Roberto SoCoRo that Roberto was in hiding.
He had just killed someone and had asked Felix to
bring him some clothes and toilet trees and stuff. So
he's walking over to the bay Bridge Motel where Roberto is.
And in Clara Alley, which is sort of perpendicular to
(12:00):
the Baybridge Motel, there are people. There's a guy in
a car, Kenneth stuff, and there's a woman up in
the window, Kathleen Guovara, and they both hear this loud altercation,
this loud argument in the alleyway, and describe these two
people kind of walking back and forth interacting with each other.
There's a white Monte Carlo that the guy with the
gun gets out of and he shoots Felix Pastrica in
(12:23):
the street and jumps back in the white Monte Carlo
and drives off right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that even in Joaquin, you were spending time with
another friend, eighteen year old George Varilla, who was actually
the son of your former girlfriend Nellie Hernandez.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, yeah, I remain. Me and Joe Barrela, we who
to be real close when he wasched, you know around
a nine. Yeah, oh, we who to go to the
video Keda all the time. We watched Aditta to play video.
I'm to be honesty, I feel, you know, even when
I watch young I feel like he watch my son.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
He would come to my house almost every two three days.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so can you tell us like what you and
you know George got into on the evening of March
twenty fourth, before y'all have parted ways.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I remembered that nine that wasn't home with my family.
You know, I expaid that, you know, to stay home.
I was in May and I received a phone call
from your So when I got the phone your he
started told me and he said, hey, man, what you're doing?
I said, man, I'm right here. You know, I spent
some time with Johanna and with my son. Man, I bow,
(13:36):
why we don't go to play video? So he conveys
me and I go out with here and he come
out to peep me out. It is white Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, George Rilla drove a white money Carlo.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He got a white Monte Carlo. He peeped me out.
Almost around seven o'clock we go to the CAA to
play video. I remember that we got there almost around seven.
Your saving toty with what play video? Buado the Blue?
He come out and told me and said, hey, what
can I have to go back to my house because
my girlfriend. She come out from Richmond, so to make
(14:10):
this toy show.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
We leave, and when you left, you didn't go straight home.
You enjoyed stopped by Gallon's Bar first, where a lot
of Cubans and Puerto Ricans ain't got at to see
if you might meet up with a friend of yours there,
But instead you ran into another guy, Roberto Hernandez, who
was not exactly a friend.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
We don't get along, you know me, and he got
a fire side. After I see my friend Manolo, I
talking with Manolo for a little while and got to
the fight. Joe Barrella take me home. I got to
my house around a twenty five h eight toty Navid,
I leave my how a game And did you know
what you was wearing that night? Yeah? Yeah, that's something
(14:50):
that I never go and forget that, Navid, because at
that time, I don't know if you remain me that
a lot of young people Epecio black people like me,
we who to with that type post Jackie letter, JACKI
you know that it washed all colorful letter, Jaki Song said.
Ko Mamba Squad Song said, how roly So Coverda got you?
(15:13):
I don't think that I think that I even can
sleep with that Jackey d C how to much I know,
Michael Mama squad. Yeah, and they see how I get
out out of my house when yo body, I piped
me out.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, cool. So George dropped you off at around eight
thirty and you spent the rest of the evening at
home with Johanna and your son. But by the next
day there was already a rumor going around that it
was you that killed Costa Rica, as you found out
from your friend Manolo when you went to Gallon's bar
the next day.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Manolo and some Odo people wasch outside the bottom. When
Manolo see me, Manolo approaching me, you know how, he said, hey, waking,
how you doing? My friend? You know ween brace and
he said, man why you don't leave the CD? And
I look at here. I say, leady, CD, what are
you talking about? Manolo? He said, Main CALITOQ last night?
(16:05):
You know, I'm the rue noise that you beat it.
And I say, hey, A stop playing like tod mate,
do you show? What are you talking about? He said? Yeah.
So when he told me now the Frost team that
is coming, you know, in my mind, I just say, oh,
Main's something wrong here, and I just started to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And it came out later that Condido DZ was the
likely instigator of that rumor. But however it got started.
The two homicide detectives work in the case, Art Gearns
and James Crowley ran with that rumor.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
So Joaquin's name comes up really fast in the investigation,
and from as soon as they get his name, he
is the only person they ever look into, and so
essentially what you can see in the police reports is
the two homicide inspectors who have Joaquin as their one
and only suspect, start showing his picture to the two eyewitnesses,
(16:56):
neither of whom identify him. They ask her, well, who
looks most like the shooter, and she says, well, she
points to Jaquin's photo and says he looks most like
the shooter, but she doesn't say it's him, and the
guy in the car says he doesn't pick anybody out,
but they still keep their focus entirely on Joaquin.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
But Joaquin didn't even match the descriptions that the two
witnesses gave right, No.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so the police did get descriptions from the eyewitnesses
of the shooter and the things they describe because they
both sort of say they see him from a distance,
kind of the silhouette. They say he's got an afro,
and that he's wearing this long trench coat. And we
know from independent witnesses, including the guy Joaquin got in
a fight with, who you know, didn't like him and
had no reason to lie for him, that Joaquin's hair
(17:40):
is in a long Jerry curl, not in an afro,
and he's wearing this short, short leather jacket and not
a long trench coat. And in fact, no one had
ever seen Joaquin ever in a trench coat, and he
didn't even own a trench coat.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know, thank God that I just stop at the
Gottam bottle because you'll see everybody see me how the race.
Everybody the people they said by they DeFi they've remained
by how I watched the race. They've remainbed that I
got a Jerry craile.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, even when they search the house, they're never
able to find anything to connect Joaquin, and and so
you know, it doesn't match. He doesn't match the descriptions,
and he's got an alibi. His his girlfriend and their
roommate tell the police from the very beginning that he's
home that night by eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nevertheless, Garance and Crowley stay focused on Joaquin as a suspect.
And so at that point, Joaquin, you went to the
police station on your own, correct.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I cannot take a no mom maent. I cannot take
a no more you watch some more roomo that I said, Man,
I have to go to to with the homo side.
I have to go talk to with the homo side. Bolutalitly.
I go with my loyo to speak to the homo side.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
About two and a half weeks after the shooting, and
he tells them that he was with George Ferrella in
the white Monte Carlo, and he tells them how to
find George, says, I, you know, I dated it his mother,
Nellie Hernandez. They live at this address. Here's what he
looks like. Here's the car he drives, I mean, basically
everything they need. And they pull in George Verilla and
(19:11):
George is initially saying, well, I can tell you what
happened up until the time Joaquin and I split up,
and then he says he went home after and he says, well,
I probably I probably went somewhere after though, and they
never ask him where did you go? Instead, what they
say is, we know Joaquin was the shooter. You're going
to go down for this murder. He's you know, George
is eighteen. They tell him, you're going to go down
for this murder unless you stop lying and covering up
(19:33):
for Joaquin. They essentially tell him like, he's just got
to say that Joaquin is the guy in the car
with him at the time of the shooting, and that
Joaquin is the shooter. And George Verilla literally says, Okay,
whatever you said, and then he repeats the story that
they have now fed to him, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So I guess subsequently later you end up getting arrested. Joaquin, Yes,
and you end up getting arrested based on a confession
from George.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Or at least from George saying exactly what the police
told them to say.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Okay, and so he was he fabricated her from the
officers Garn's and Crowley.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean, they tell him he's got to say
it's Joaquin. That's like. Then they keep going back to
the eyewitnesses. Basically, the witnesses make positive ideas only after
they're repeatedly shown Joaquin and for one of them. She
doesn't even make a first positive Ida until the preliminary
hearing when he's literally sitting in a red jumpsuit at
the defense table, and then she's like, oh, I'm sure
that's the guy. And she says it's based on his
(20:32):
attitude that she can see is how she's identifying. I mean,
there's a lot of racism all through this trial, Like
she even says, I think they were speaking African.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So on April nineteen, nineteen ninety, Joaquin, you were arrested
in charged with first degree murder, bro what was going
through your head? I mean, did you even think this
shit was real?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Do you know what? Let me tell you these whoop
not even when I washed my try you, I really
believe that everything worth real. I was thinking that I
wasn't a can't the camera show looking all these people
coming and pointed me with a finger, Yeah, that the
main And in my mind I said main, I know,
(21:16):
I know the camera is going come out and they
go and say a smile you in camera, you know,
because that was a famite show at the time. I
you to watch that show tomorrow, you know, and I
and I say, you know what I mean, what happened
to me. I cannot believe it. You you cannot, being innocing,
(21:38):
believe that what is happening to you is real. You cannot,
you know, and that's what happened to me. And you know,
to respond to your question, no, you know, I steel,
don't get it, I steal. You don't even get it.
Main you're being charged with frost the good morning. I
(22:01):
just deal with them getting so.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
George had actually kind of disappeared, George Urella, he'd not
shown up for the prelim, he was missing leading up
to the trial. I honestly believe Joaquin's attorney just didn't
think he was even going to have to deal with George.
It was just going to be this eyewitness I D case.
And so he did, I think, a fairly good job,
you know, showing all these discrepancies between the descriptions and
(22:25):
what Joaquin actually looked like their own inconsistent statements and
kind of the evolution of their ideas. He did a
nice job of showing that George Ofrella's timeline didn't make
any sense, that there was this like big gap in
between the way he says what they did that night
and how he drove Joaquin home his timelines that lines
up with joaquines that Joaquin is home long before the
(22:47):
murder happens. But what he missed, what he didn't manage
to do, And one of the things I really respect
about him is that he actually gave us a declaration
saying he was ineffective because he didn't present to the jury.
The jury never heard that Joaquin's name came from the
homicide inspectors first, and that they told Rilla essentially that
he had to identify Joaquin, So the jury just never
(23:09):
heard that. What they heard instead was this guy who
knows Joaquin, who'd grown up with him around is saying
he's the guy who was with me in my car
and who got out and shot him. And then he
hears that corroborated by these two independent eyewitnesses, and Joaquin's
attorney presented witnesses who describe what Joaquin looked like that night,
(23:29):
how he had Jerry Curl in the short jacket, But
he never presented the alibi witnesses. So they also didn't
hear that Joaquin was at home with his one month
old son, and that they had a good reason to
remember that night because they were going to celebrate the
one month anniversary of his birth the next day. So
you know, they knew that George Verrella was incentivized, they
knew he got immunity, they knew he was in and
(23:51):
out of trouble. So it wasn't a super strong case
even with what they heard. But what they never heard
was anything else about someone else actually did it, or
that Joaquin had this really credible alibi, and so they
end up convicting him.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It don't matter if I'm trying to explain to you
a thousand times, I cannot even feeling close to really
really tell you how I feel when they come out
with a guilty verity. You know, everything inside me stopped, everything,
(24:33):
I stop reading, my heart stop. It is a feeling
that that you can never you can never explain how
it is that they find you guilty, especial find me
(24:55):
guilty or the moory of my bed framing that's all
I really killed me? How can I be doing time
for the mony or my beayfriend made somebody that I
love even to today. I ended almost opened Pelican Bay
(25:33):
presum in what the more taught prisum in the California
system at the time. I see people when they told
these people you go into Pelican Bay. I see grown
Maine crumbled in the floor and crying when I was
in some queen, you know. And I ask the people
and I say, hey, Main, why he crying? I said, man,
(25:55):
you don't know where we're going. He said, we're going
to Pelican be And I said what aboudy? I said, Cuba,
let me tell you mane, it is no joke. He said,
may wait until you get there. You know it was true.
You know when I gotta tell your Maine every time
(26:15):
that you heal alund sound in that prison, it was
not a first alarm. It was somebody got killed, you know.
And I said, man, how did I ain't in there? Bo?
My mind is still do not stopping play some trick
(26:36):
on me? I remember, you know. I who to wag
into my said go to sleep. And I had to
cover my head with the Blankee real tie and I
had to close my eyes royal tie, and I hold
to say, Main, when I open my eyes now, when
I open my eyes, now, I know this is a three.
(26:57):
This is a three. I go and being home, we
might sign with my baby's mama. This is a three, man,
This is a three. I went, I got Cobway might
sell I need the sall. You know, I say, wow, man,
this is real mm hm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So I gotta ask you, man, like, how did you
hold on to hope so much for all those years?
Because I always always say, you know, for a person
that committed crime, it's hard, you know, to deal with
the time, But for an innocent person sitting there, it's
a whole different level because you're going through everything, whether
it's the violence in the prison, the abuse from the cops,
(27:41):
whatever it is, the CEOs, whatever it is. So how
did you hold on the hope that you would get out?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
You know why? In the beginning I watched completely ain't
good with God? Everything that I got in my mayis
how did I go and prove that I don't do
the what I can do? You know? And the good
thing about it is and thank God, you know, to
all the emails, you know, in every prison that I be, brother,
(28:12):
in every priston that i'd be, every email, believe on me,
they can see through into my heart. They can see
through into the type of man that I was. You know,
this call it homies homeboy. They asking me working and
(28:34):
why are you here for? Man? And I say, man, brother,
they give me totally one year to life or a
model that I not come make. I'm taking God. They say, hey, man,
you know what, man, I believe you? What can I
believe you? And I say thank you man. And I
received so much respect. I receive the respect that the
(28:57):
systems don't give it to me. I got any all
these em the respect that deceased denight to me. I
got in it from all these people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And page can you can you walk us through the
post conviction litigation? I mean didn't Evidently nothing worked for him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean you got to give Joaquin credit, like
he litigated his case to the nines, Like he got
himself into federal court. I know he had helped from
jail house lawyers. I have a lot of respect for
jailhouth lawyers. And I mean, unfortunately the courts just refused
to look at it and refuse to listen. But what
eventually happened was Joaquin had earned the respect not only
(29:39):
of other incarcerated folks, but also some of the free staff.
And we were contacted by this guy Ray Leonardini, who
ran a meditation circle that Joaquin was a part of,
and also Ellen egger Is a pro bono attorney who
have partnered with in a few cases, was helping another
guy with parole who told her, you have to meet Joaquin,
like he's actually innocent and you need to help them.
(30:02):
And so Ellen went and met Joaquin. He told her everything.
She like everybody, found him very compelling and believable, and
so she The first thing asked her to do was
go talk to George Verilla's sister, Denise Courchier, and Alan
did that and Denise told her, my brother told me
that Joaquin is innocent, that it was another Cuban man,
(30:24):
and that the police really wanted Joaquin, and George was
scared of them, and so he went along with what
they wanted. But what really turned the case around was
when Roberto Sacoro got out of prison. He went to
Cuba and he tracked down Joaquin's family and told them
that he personally knew that Joaquin was innocent because he
had actually seen the whole thing from his motel room.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And listeners, remember, Roberto Cicoro was another friend of Joaquin's.
The day before all of this happened, Roberto had killed
this other guy named Ruben Alfonso, and he was hiding
out at the Bay Bridge Motel, wading on Felix to
bring up some clothes when he heard Felix southside argon
with Candido Diaz.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They had been fighting over a gun and not paying
for the gun, and so he recognized their voices and
they start coming in and out of his view, and
you know, he hears the gunshot and he runs out
and he sees Candido get into the white Monte Carlo
and drive away, and he basically broke down and apologized
to Joaquin's family and explained that while he was in
(31:26):
he'd been a shot caller initially, and so he felt like,
you know, in addition to the normal amount of trouble
you can get in in prison for stitching, that he,
especially as someone who'd sort of enforced those rules, would
be even more in danger. And for a long time
he'd hope to be able to get his own revenge,
that at some point Candido would get locked up and
he would be able to avenge Felix's death, and in
(31:51):
some ways, fortunately that never happened, and instead he gets
out and tells the truth, and that really broke open
the case.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And Ellen also tracked a couple of people that George
Rilla had talked to and had told them Joaquin was innocent.
One was Joaquin's sister, Denise, and the other was a
woman named Kadi Dad Gonzales.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She was friends with Nellie Hernandez, George's mother, and also
knew Joaquin through Nelly and through the Cuban community. George
tells her also, so it's very similar to what he
said to Denise, that he knows Joaquin is innocent and
didn't do this. And so we had these two statements
from George Verilla to two different people saying that Joaquin
was innocent and also saying that it was another Cuban man.
(32:32):
And so Candy ro Diez is not only Cuban but
also matches the original description. He was always had his
hair in an afro, He was known to wear long
trench coats. And it turns out he'd had this, you know,
ongoing and escalating feud with Felix Pasta Rica right before
the murder, and it all started over the weapon that
may actually have been used, A forty four, which was
(32:53):
actually the weapon they said was used to kill Felix
Pasta Rica. So Ellen had done most of the investigation
by the time she came to me. And it was
only the Roberto piece that came afterwards, but we really
felt like that pushed it over the top. And then
the Innocence Commission also got an eyewitness I D expert
to look at the eyewitnesses and just really explain and
(33:15):
under the social science that we now know even more.
While all of those, all the reasons eyewitness identifications are unreliable,
but we're especially so in this case.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Well not just unreliable. I believe one of the witnesses,
Kathleen Gavada, had another reason to identify Joaquin.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know, the same woman I say from the BORGINI
now that I hold the pa SHOLDI nimin, I only
atey poucing and later you know, to give you diffending
change and watch you see, well she gotla.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So, Paige, after all this new information you put in
front of them, did the courts quickly agree that Joaquin
was innocent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I mean we expected them to, especially because the DA's
office was on.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Board, and that was District Ernie chess A Bodin, who
was repeatedly under fire from the police union and adversaries.
There were I think like two recall elections, so his
political foot and was never secure, and he was the
one that was making the recommendation based on the Innocence
Commission findings.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
They had this separate Innocence Commission, right, that was supposed
to be this independent body. It had DA's public defenders, experts,
law professors, you know, like this whole commission of different
stakeholders who all agreed Joaquin is fully innocent. And in
my experience, usually when that happens, the courts are pretty
willing to go along pretty quickly, right. But unfortunately we
had the exact opposite experience here, and I can only
(34:38):
imagine some of that was the politics going on in
San Francisco. The court essentially just the first thing they
did was ask us to do another round of briefing,
and they invited the Attorney General's office, in which you
know doesn't generally happen in superior court. But here's the
court saying, you know, District Attorney, I don't trust what
you have to say, and so Attorney General, I'm inviting
you in to tell me something different. Fortunately, the AG's
(35:02):
office also saw that this wasn't a case to oppose.
Everything pointed to Jacquin's innocence. There's no reliable evidence of
guilt anywhere. But even after you know, a second round
of briefing in the AG's office, refusing to come in,
they still had us have an evident you're hearing. And
so here we are both sides arguing for the same thing.
So we're both presenting opening statements on Joaquin being innocent,
(35:24):
and then we're both doing closing arguments about how he's
entitled to relief and how we all believe he's innocent
and the judge should reverse his conviction. Luckily, by then
we'd been switched to a different judge, was a really good,
experienced judge and just saw all the problems with the case.
And then finally, on April eighteenth, the court reversed Joaquin's
conviction and the district attorneys again announced he was innocent.
(35:48):
They dismissed all of the charges.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Man, I almost fail to be fluw yes, to go
out to the freedom that I want, denying for almost
thirty two yeah, and I don't even know how to
make it all the way to the door, you know,
And I keep walking. I'm walking, imagin you know, when
(36:12):
when they open the door to me and I see
you know, I see pay ailing my son and my
baby's mama. I see everybody. Man, it was too much
for me. I say, my god, it was a day unbelievable.
This type of feeling. You have to really go through
(36:35):
that for you can really have the thing what I'm
talking about. It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. And of course we're
all super grateful to the Northern California Innocent Project and
the fantastic work that they do because it's through them
that people like Joaquin can you know, have a chance
to get back to this free world. So if anyone
want to show the Northern California Innocent Projects some love,
we'll have the link in the bios so you can
(37:06):
do that. So we've got to the point of the
show where we do this thing called closing arguments. And
first I want to thank you all for being here,
and I also want to ask y'all to share your
final thoughts for the listeners, you know, anything that you
want to say, any takeaway you may have, and page
(37:26):
I want to first start with you and then we
can close with Joaquin.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the thing that I think we haven't done a
great job of yet, especially in San Francisco is like,
we know, there was this era in which they were
treating especially young black men terribly and saw themselves as
like cleaning up the streets by somehow getting people involved
in homicides and throwing them away for life. And there
are six people who've been exonerated out of San Francisco,
(37:53):
all of them are black men, and five of them
are from this nineteen ninety era. They all have incredible story.
You should look into all of them. Joaquin, Maurice Caldwell,
Antoine Goff, John Tennyson, and Kara mad Conley, who I
know you've already interviewed, But what we haven't done is
look back at what else went wrong there. So it
shouldn't be luck of the draw, right whose cases get
(38:14):
looked at and who gets picked up? And so Headwoaquin
not you know, convinced other incarcerated folks that he was
innocent and then one of them meeting Ellen, like you know,
this luck of the draw thing. It's not okay for
justice to be that arbitrary with what little justice exists
in our system. And so my hope and listeners, I'd
(38:35):
love for you to encourage this is that we actually
look back there's four homicide investigators who were involved in
all of these cases. We could look at their cases,
We could look at all cases from this era. You know,
cdcr's budget for this year is over fourteen billion dollars.
Just imagine what would happen if we just spent a
tiny fraction of that on actually looking for where things
(38:56):
went wrong, starting with the places we already know things
went Everybody should have a chance to prove themselves. No
one's as bad as the worst thing they've ever done.
And you know, these guys who have done all this
time like you are Land, like Yuki, and who have
come out and shown like I mean, one of the
things I just love also about what you've been doing
is just highlighting the humanity of people right whether they're
(39:18):
incarcerated or not. We are all have this huge amount
to offer and give, and I just would love for
us to stop leaving so many people behind and really
start focusing on using our resources in better ways.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
What I want to say, you know, to all be listening.
I want to lay everybody know that what happened to
me is continually happy right now, and the only way
it can be at top we all have to come
out together and do something about it. I always say,
if we're capable to go to the moon, we have
(39:57):
to be capable to prevent the anal same peace go
to prison. Simple like that. How can you go to
the moon but you cannot premain one person to go
to prison. It domain saying I know right now, at
this moment, in some part of the country in a
court house, somebody's going to prison right now, being innocing.
(40:20):
It is no doubt in my mind. And he going
through for the same thing that I go through when
I was in that position. I know we can stop it.
I know we can do so anything about it because
I know Number one is we need to make the
dis Ratney accountable for any wrong doing that they do.
(40:44):
And I said the every dish Ratney. No, we got
some really good dist rattorney that they do their job,
they go by the law and they honest the people,
how walking people. But we got some other one that
they don't care, they don't kate. They want to wing
our CAGs O this fasic or the egocent people. We
(41:08):
have to stop. Doc.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your guest host
Erline Woods. I like to thank executive producers Jason Flumm
and Kevin Waters for inviting me to be here. Good
Looking Special thanks to our wonderful production team Connor Hall,
Annie Chelsea, Lila Robinson and Jeff Clyburn. The music in
this production comes from three time Oscar numberee Jay Raff.
(41:38):
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
Rome Conviction, as well as Lava for Good. On all
three platforms. You can find me online at Erline Woods,
and you can find my podcast ear Hustle wherever you
listen to podcasts. Wrongful Conviction is a productiontion a Blober
(42:00):
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
On the night of March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Felix
Costo Rico was walking down an alley in San Francisco's
Mission District. Witnesses saw a man get out of a
white money Carlo and confront Felix, and the two started arguing. Suddenly,
a shot rang out and Felix fell to the ground dead.
The shooter jumped back into the car and sped away
(00:22):
with another man at the wheel. By the next morning,
rumors were flying around the streets that the shooter was
a lifelong friend of Felix's, Joaquin Syria. They had grown
up together in Cuba. Word was that the two were
in a dispute over money. Joaquin had been out earlier
that evening with a friend who drove a white money Carlo,
but he claimed to be home with his wife and
(00:43):
baby son for the night by the time the crime
was committed. After viewing several lineups that included Joaquin's picture,
two eyewitnesses id'd him as the man they seen. One
witness claimed that she was eighty percent certain and that
was close enough for the jury. But this is wrongful conviction.
(01:16):
Welcome back to romeful conviction. I'm Mariline Woods, co creator
and co hosts of the Ear Hustle podcast, guest hosting
for Jason flummer Day. And I gotta tell you I
served over twenty seven years in prison, and I used
to always think about the people who were in here
that were actually innocent, you know, dealing with the day
to day grinding rigor of prison life. And that brings
(01:38):
us to our guest today, Joaquin Sariah. Joaquin. Welcome to
Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Cool cool. And here to help tell Joaquin's story is
Paige Kanap. She's the supervising attorney at the Northern California
Innocent Project. Paige, thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I am super excited to meet you, Arline. I'm
super happy to be with you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Morning. Joaquin. Can you tell me, like, since you from Cuba,
what was your life like growing up growing now in Kilwow?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It was beautiful. It was beautiful, you know for me
to be a child growing now in my country. You know,
so rein them my family frame and kill what you
do a lot of teams you know that you're not
able to do in this country. You know, I remember
you know that in kill what we who to play
you know in the three to one o'cloud two o'cline
(02:31):
the morning, and it was no dingy everybody know everybody,
you know, because it's an island. I had a royal
beautiful shaohoo.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Got you, got you, got you. So when you were
a youngster, the US and Cuba was beefing. You know,
they have a pretty fraud history, you know, the Missile crisis,
the Communist revolt and bargoes. Not really a free flowing dialogue.
So I'm just curious, like, what were your impressions of
the United States back.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, let me let me tell you this, man, everybody
c what the majority we grow out believing everything that
we're watching the TV about the United States. We really
believe that Superman really exists. Anything that you go out
from United States, we really believe that. Brother, you know,
you know in we watch so brainwatched, you know that
(03:24):
when we're watching movie A Superman, Wonder Woman, we really
believe that these type of people exist in the United States.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
You know, unbelievable. So this see how I grow out
and and and and wa quing. You knew the victim
in this case, Phyllis bastar Rica. When you were a kid,
back in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You know, a Phillis we all call hi colitles. He
was close to my neighborhood, so mini mini minie time.
We who to skate from the school to go swimming
in the ocean, you know, go go hip some mango
sugar cane. Everybody liked to be around Philly. You know,
if you go into a party, you want him to
(04:09):
be there. He was only laughing all the time, making
a lot of joke. Definitely, he was a good friend, right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I'm just curious, did you come from like a
political family over in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
My father he was a revolutionary, you know, he was
a Commonist. He fight with they got through, you see,
if they got got the power way. My father was
a part of that. Yeah, the majority of my family
they really believed, you know, in the Commonies. And it
was problem in the house, you know, because we all
(04:46):
got different views. Since my ely age, I got really
really big trouble to fit in the Commonist party. I
got trouble with that. So you know, at the age
of eighteen, I was called to be in the army.
I was in high school at that time. But they
don't care. That was a man that told it called.
You know, a lot of young people escape because we
(05:09):
don't want to do that, you know, to go fight
to some other country, like a lot of Joonts in Cuba,
they were saying to Angola to fight a lot of
all these young people got killed, you know. So me
and I say, oh, I don't want to do that.
So when I was called to be in the army,
(05:29):
I remember that I was there maybe for about sismon
and I escape. A lot of Johns they do that.
After I escape, I go to my fatherly house and
I spend some time with my family. Into my father
come and told me, and he said, you know what,
walking I don't want no trouble with the government. You
(05:50):
have to give it, you say, do the right thing,
you know. And and I respect my family, you know,
I love my father so more that this is how
I aim. Then, you know, in prison, you know in Cuba,
it's not like right here, you know, right here, I
waiting something hoppy to your yoka crying right in two
or three days they take.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You to court your due process.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, in kull White difity in Culba, they directed you, Yeah,
you can be out thea for one through three four. Yeah,
I never go to court. Yeah, they see how it
is in Kiwa damn.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So in May of nineteen eighty, after spending some time
in prison, you fled Cuba as a part of the
Mario boat left, which from my understanding was a mass
migration of around one hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans
that was sanctioned by both Jimmy Carter and Fidale Castro.
(06:45):
You were still a teenager at that time, right, yeah,
And I want to ask you what do you remember
about the boat ride from Cuba to Florida because I
used to always see it on the news, you know,
individuals on floats and stuff like that coming from Cuba.
What what do you remember about that boat ride?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, Frosseto, to be honest with you, bro, I see
a lot of ball when I was in the ocean,
you know, and we're talking about a ball that you
might can pull twenty or thirty people in that ball.
So what the Cuba government was doing need instead or
pull twenty or thirty people? They who to put two
(07:22):
hundred people in the bowl. So imagining and let me
tell you, Mane, I see with my own eyes how
a lot of ball that's appeal you know, in the
ocean one minute that was next to us, and when
I look, it's not a te anomal, it is like
(07:42):
it is gone. So it was really, really really it
was really ugly, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So fortunately for you you got here safely and you
landed in Key West, Florida. Can you tell me what
your feelings were when you first read the United States?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
At that moment, I feel, you know, I watched Hoppy. Yeah, yah,
I wa Hoppy completely. You know that I fleck. I
watched Hoppy. You know that. I mean you not a
state that I don't have to live it a field
no more. I don't have to water, you know about that?
I going and they killed Biddy. Govin ain't on Sonty
like that. I know. I washed the most power with
(08:23):
fo komtri in the war. So that moment, anything that
they told me WILLILL believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So over the next few years, you kind of skipped
around to a few different cities and you finally ended
up in San Francisco living with a woman named Nellie Hernandez.
Nelly was a little older than you, and she has
six kids. And back then you were hanging out with
a couple of your partners from Cuba, your childhood friend
Felix Costa Rica who had also made it to the US.
(08:54):
And a guy named Robert Socorro. And there was another
cat from Cuba that was a hustler name Candido ds
What did you know about him?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know, Candido Dias, what I know about him? You
know that he's a cute one. You know, he was
living in San Francisco in the Sta Hotel, you know,
in nineteen ninety. And I never think, you know, he
had any typeo or bad feeling about me, a fat
(09:23):
that I know. You know, we're talking sometimes and you
know when you got the feeling that you don't click
with the persion, you know, that's the way I feel,
that the way he feel. But we never let it,
you know, past to the level or having any type
of problem with him.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, And when you was in San Francisco and asked
us what was the San Francisco Police Department like?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So in nineteen ninety in San Francisco Police Department, it
was really really really I could root department. I already
you know, listening in the three what they were doing,
how they brand drag on people car you know, and
and all that type of stuff. You know. Of course,
(10:18):
not everybody, not every police is doing you know, some
really Torigan, they really got some a lot of bad apple,
you know in the San Francis Complete department. Hyah my
(10:52):
twenty four, nineteen ninety. You know, my personal life at
that time it was changing, you know for the bet
you know, I mean my baby's mama, you know, Johanna
pays about almost about a jayago before my son was born.
I was a happy man, you know at that time,
and all my friend, oh, my friend, what's happy with
me too? You know, roveto socorro he was happy if
(11:15):
Philidy who took coming to my house. It was a
happy time for me, right, you know, at that time.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Until, of course, your good friend Felix Basto Rico was killed,
which happened on the night of March twenty fourth of
nineteen ninety. So Paige, can you can you walk us
through what transpired that night?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, So what we know is that Felix Pasta Rica
was walking down the street with a plastic bag. We've
since learned from Roberto SoCoRo that Roberto was in hiding.
He had just killed someone and had asked Felix to
bring him some clothes and toilet trees and stuff. So
he's walking over to the bay Bridge Motel where Roberto is.
And in Clara Alley, which is sort of perpendicular to
(12:00):
the Baybridge Motel, there are people. There's a guy in
a car, Kenneth stuff, and there's a woman up in
the window, Kathleen Guovara, and they both hear this loud altercation,
this loud argument in the alleyway, and describe these two
people kind of walking back and forth interacting with each other.
There's a white Monte Carlo that the guy with the
gun gets out of and he shoots Felix Pastrica in
(12:23):
the street and jumps back in the white Monte Carlo
and drives off right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that even in Joaquin, you were spending time with
another friend, eighteen year old George Varilla, who was actually
the son of your former girlfriend Nellie Hernandez.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, yeah, I remain. Me and Joe Barrela, we who
to be real close when he wasched, you know around
a nine. Yeah, oh, we who to go to the
video Keda all the time. We watched Aditta to play video.
I'm to be honesty, I feel, you know, even when
I watch young I feel like he watch my son.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
He would come to my house almost every two three days.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so can you tell us like what you and
you know George got into on the evening of March
twenty fourth, before y'all have parted ways.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I remembered that nine that wasn't home with my family.
You know, I expaid that, you know, to stay home.
I was in May and I received a phone call
from your So when I got the phone your he
started told me and he said, hey, man, what you're doing?
I said, man, I'm right here. You know, I spent
some time with Johanna and with my son. Man, I bow,
(13:36):
why we don't go to play video? So he conveys
me and I go out with here and he come
out to peep me out. It is white Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Oh, George Rilla drove a white money Carlo.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He got a white Monte Carlo. He peeped me out.
Almost around seven o'clock we go to the CAA to
play video. I remember that we got there almost around seven.
Your saving toty with what play video? Buado the Blue?
He come out and told me and said, hey, what
can I have to go back to my house because
my girlfriend. She come out from Richmond, so to make
(14:10):
this toy show.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
We leave, and when you left, you didn't go straight home.
You enjoyed stopped by Gallon's Bar first, where a lot
of Cubans and Puerto Ricans ain't got at to see
if you might meet up with a friend of yours there,
But instead you ran into another guy, Roberto Hernandez, who
was not exactly a friend.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
We don't get along, you know me, and he got
a fire side. After I see my friend Manolo, I
talking with Manolo for a little while and got to
the fight. Joe Barrella take me home. I got to
my house around a twenty five h eight toty Navid,
I leave my how a game And did you know
what you was wearing that night? Yeah? Yeah, that's something
(14:50):
that I never go and forget that, Navid, because at
that time, I don't know if you remain me that
a lot of young people Epecio black people like me,
we who to with that type post Jackie letter, JACKI
you know that it washed all colorful letter, Jaki Song said.
Ko Mamba Squad Song said, how roly So Coverda got you?
(15:13):
I don't think that I think that I even can
sleep with that Jackey d C how to much I know,
Michael Mama squad. Yeah, and they see how I get
out out of my house when yo body, I piped
me out.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, cool. So George dropped you off at around eight
thirty and you spent the rest of the evening at
home with Johanna and your son. But by the next
day there was already a rumor going around that it
was you that killed Costa Rica, as you found out
from your friend Manolo when you went to Gallon's bar
the next day.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Manolo and some Odo people wasch outside the bottom. When
Manolo see me, Manolo approaching me, you know how, he said, hey, waking,
how you doing? My friend? You know ween brace and
he said, man why you don't leave the CD? And
I look at here. I say, leady, CD, what are
you talking about? Manolo? He said, Main CALITOQ last night?
(16:05):
You know, I'm the rue noise that you beat it.
And I say, hey, A stop playing like tod mate,
do you show? What are you talking about? He said? Yeah.
So when he told me now the Frost team that
is coming, you know, in my mind, I just say, oh,
Main's something wrong here, and I just started to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And it came out later that Condido DZ was the
likely instigator of that rumor. But however it got started.
The two homicide detectives work in the case, Art Gearns
and James Crowley ran with that rumor.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
So Joaquin's name comes up really fast in the investigation,
and from as soon as they get his name, he
is the only person they ever look into, and so
essentially what you can see in the police reports is
the two homicide inspectors who have Joaquin as their one
and only suspect, start showing his picture to the two eyewitnesses,
(16:56):
neither of whom identify him. They ask her, well, who
looks most like the shooter, and she says, well, she
points to Jaquin's photo and says he looks most like
the shooter, but she doesn't say it's him, and the
guy in the car says he doesn't pick anybody out,
but they still keep their focus entirely on Joaquin.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
But Joaquin didn't even match the descriptions that the two
witnesses gave right, No.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so the police did get descriptions from the eyewitnesses
of the shooter and the things they describe because they
both sort of say they see him from a distance,
kind of the silhouette. They say he's got an afro,
and that he's wearing this long trench coat. And we
know from independent witnesses, including the guy Joaquin got in
a fight with, who you know, didn't like him and
had no reason to lie for him, that Joaquin's hair
(17:40):
is in a long Jerry curl, not in an afro,
and he's wearing this short, short leather jacket and not
a long trench coat. And in fact, no one had
ever seen Joaquin ever in a trench coat, and he
didn't even own a trench coat.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know, thank God that I just stop at the
Gottam bottle because you'll see everybody see me how the race.
Everybody the people they said by they DeFi they've remained
by how I watched the race. They've remainbed that I
got a Jerry craile.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, even when they search the house, they're never
able to find anything to connect Joaquin, and and so
you know, it doesn't match. He doesn't match the descriptions,
and he's got an alibi. His his girlfriend and their
roommate tell the police from the very beginning that he's
home that night by eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Nevertheless, Garance and Crowley stay focused on Joaquin as a suspect.
And so at that point, Joaquin, you went to the
police station on your own, correct.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I cannot take a no mom maent. I cannot take
a no more you watch some more roomo that I said, Man,
I have to go to to with the homo side.
I have to go talk to with the homo side. Bolutalitly.
I go with my loyo to speak to the homo side.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
About two and a half weeks after the shooting, and
he tells them that he was with George Ferrella in
the white Monte Carlo, and he tells them how to
find George, says, I, you know, I dated it his mother,
Nellie Hernandez. They live at this address. Here's what he
looks like. Here's the car he drives, I mean, basically
everything they need. And they pull in George Verilla and
(19:11):
George is initially saying, well, I can tell you what
happened up until the time Joaquin and I split up,
and then he says he went home after and he says, well,
I probably I probably went somewhere after though, and they
never ask him where did you go? Instead, what they
say is, we know Joaquin was the shooter. You're going
to go down for this murder. He's you know, George
is eighteen. They tell him, you're going to go down
for this murder unless you stop lying and covering up
(19:33):
for Joaquin. They essentially tell him like, he's just got
to say that Joaquin is the guy in the car
with him at the time of the shooting, and that
Joaquin is the shooter. And George Verilla literally says, Okay,
whatever you said, and then he repeats the story that
they have now fed to him, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So I guess subsequently later you end up getting arrested. Joaquin, Yes,
and you end up getting arrested based on a confession
from George.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Or at least from George saying exactly what the police
told them to say.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Okay, and so he was he fabricated her from the
officers Garn's and Crowley.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean, they tell him he's got to say
it's Joaquin. That's like. Then they keep going back to
the eyewitnesses. Basically, the witnesses make positive ideas only after
they're repeatedly shown Joaquin and for one of them. She
doesn't even make a first positive Ida until the preliminary
hearing when he's literally sitting in a red jumpsuit at
the defense table, and then she's like, oh, I'm sure
that's the guy. And she says it's based on his
(20:32):
attitude that she can see is how she's identifying. I mean,
there's a lot of racism all through this trial, Like
she even says, I think they were speaking African.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So on April nineteen, nineteen ninety, Joaquin, you were arrested
in charged with first degree murder, bro what was going
through your head? I mean, did you even think this
shit was real?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Do you know what? Let me tell you these whoop
not even when I washed my try you, I really
believe that everything worth real. I was thinking that I
wasn't a can't the camera show looking all these people
coming and pointed me with a finger, Yeah, that the
main And in my mind I said main, I know,
(21:16):
I know the camera is going come out and they
go and say a smile you in camera, you know,
because that was a famite show at the time. I
you to watch that show tomorrow, you know, and I
and I say, you know what I mean, what happened
to me. I cannot believe it. You you cannot, being innocing,
(21:38):
believe that what is happening to you is real. You cannot,
you know, and that's what happened to me. And you know,
to respond to your question, no, you know, I steel,
don't get it, I steal. You don't even get it.
Main you're being charged with frost the good morning. I
(22:01):
just deal with them getting so.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
George had actually kind of disappeared, George Urella, he'd not
shown up for the prelim, he was missing leading up
to the trial. I honestly believe Joaquin's attorney just didn't
think he was even going to have to deal with George.
It was just going to be this eyewitness I D case.
And so he did, I think, a fairly good job,
you know, showing all these discrepancies between the descriptions and
(22:25):
what Joaquin actually looked like their own inconsistent statements and
kind of the evolution of their ideas. He did a
nice job of showing that George Ofrella's timeline didn't make
any sense, that there was this like big gap in
between the way he says what they did that night
and how he drove Joaquin home his timelines that lines
up with joaquines that Joaquin is home long before the
(22:47):
murder happens. But what he missed, what he didn't manage
to do, And one of the things I really respect
about him is that he actually gave us a declaration
saying he was ineffective because he didn't present to the jury.
The jury never heard that Joaquin's name came from the
homicide inspectors first, and that they told Rilla essentially that
he had to identify Joaquin, So the jury just never
(23:09):
heard that. What they heard instead was this guy who
knows Joaquin, who'd grown up with him around is saying
he's the guy who was with me in my car
and who got out and shot him. And then he
hears that corroborated by these two independent eyewitnesses, and Joaquin's
attorney presented witnesses who describe what Joaquin looked like that night,
(23:29):
how he had Jerry Curl in the short jacket, But
he never presented the alibi witnesses. So they also didn't
hear that Joaquin was at home with his one month
old son, and that they had a good reason to
remember that night because they were going to celebrate the
one month anniversary of his birth the next day. So
you know, they knew that George Verrella was incentivized, they
knew he got immunity, they knew he was in and
(23:51):
out of trouble. So it wasn't a super strong case
even with what they heard. But what they never heard
was anything else about someone else actually did it, or
that Joaquin had this really credible alibi, and so they
end up convicting him.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It don't matter if I'm trying to explain to you
a thousand times, I cannot even feeling close to really
really tell you how I feel when they come out
with a guilty verity. You know, everything inside me stopped, everything,
(24:33):
I stop reading, my heart stop. It is a feeling
that that you can never you can never explain how
it is that they find you guilty, especial find me
(24:55):
guilty or the moory of my bed framing that's all
I really killed me? How can I be doing time
for the mony or my beayfriend made somebody that I
love even to today. I ended almost opened Pelican Bay
(25:33):
presum in what the more taught prisum in the California
system at the time. I see people when they told
these people you go into Pelican Bay. I see grown
Maine crumbled in the floor and crying when I was
in some queen, you know. And I ask the people
and I say, hey, Main, why he crying? I said, man,
(25:55):
you don't know where we're going. He said, we're going
to Pelican be And I said what aboudy? I said, Cuba,
let me tell you mane, it is no joke. He said,
may wait until you get there. You know it was true.
You know when I gotta tell your Maine every time
(26:15):
that you heal alund sound in that prison, it was
not a first alarm. It was somebody got killed, you know.
And I said, man, how did I ain't in there? Bo?
My mind is still do not stopping play some trick
(26:36):
on me? I remember, you know. I who to wag
into my said go to sleep. And I had to
cover my head with the Blankee real tie and I
had to close my eyes royal tie, and I hold
to say, Main, when I open my eyes now, when
I open my eyes, now, I know this is a three.
(26:57):
This is a three. I go and being home, we
might sign with my baby's mama. This is a three, man,
This is a three. I went, I got Cobway might
sell I need the sall. You know, I say, wow, man,
this is real mm hm.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So I gotta ask you, man, like, how did you
hold on to hope so much for all those years?
Because I always always say, you know, for a person
that committed crime, it's hard, you know, to deal with
the time, But for an innocent person sitting there, it's
a whole different level because you're going through everything, whether
it's the violence in the prison, the abuse from the cops,
(27:41):
whatever it is, the CEOs, whatever it is. So how
did you hold on the hope that you would get out?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
You know why? In the beginning I watched completely ain't
good with God? Everything that I got in my mayis
how did I go and prove that I don't do
the what I can do? You know? And the good
thing about it is and thank God, you know, to
all the emails, you know, in every prison that I be, brother,
(28:12):
in every priston that i'd be, every email, believe on me,
they can see through into my heart. They can see
through into the type of man that I was. You know,
this call it homies homeboy. They asking me working and
(28:34):
why are you here for? Man? And I say, man, brother,
they give me totally one year to life or a
model that I not come make. I'm taking God. They say, hey, man,
you know what, man, I believe you? What can I
believe you? And I say thank you man. And I
received so much respect. I receive the respect that the
(28:57):
systems don't give it to me. I got any all
these em the respect that deceased denight to me. I
got in it from all these people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And page can you can you walk us through the
post conviction litigation? I mean didn't Evidently nothing worked for him.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I mean you got to give Joaquin credit, like
he litigated his case to the nines, Like he got
himself into federal court. I know he had helped from
jail house lawyers. I have a lot of respect for
jailhouth lawyers. And I mean, unfortunately the courts just refused
to look at it and refuse to listen. But what
eventually happened was Joaquin had earned the respect not only
(29:39):
of other incarcerated folks, but also some of the free staff.
And we were contacted by this guy Ray Leonardini, who
ran a meditation circle that Joaquin was a part of,
and also Ellen egger Is a pro bono attorney who
have partnered with in a few cases, was helping another
guy with parole who told her, you have to meet Joaquin,
like he's actually innocent and you need to help them.
(30:02):
And so Ellen went and met Joaquin. He told her everything.
She like everybody, found him very compelling and believable, and
so she The first thing asked her to do was
go talk to George Verilla's sister, Denise Courchier, and Alan
did that and Denise told her, my brother told me
that Joaquin is innocent, that it was another Cuban man,
(30:24):
and that the police really wanted Joaquin, and George was
scared of them, and so he went along with what
they wanted. But what really turned the case around was
when Roberto Sacoro got out of prison. He went to
Cuba and he tracked down Joaquin's family and told them
that he personally knew that Joaquin was innocent because he
had actually seen the whole thing from his motel room.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And listeners, remember, Roberto Cicoro was another friend of Joaquin's.
The day before all of this happened, Roberto had killed
this other guy named Ruben Alfonso, and he was hiding
out at the Bay Bridge Motel, wading on Felix to
bring up some clothes when he heard Felix southside argon
with Candido Diaz.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They had been fighting over a gun and not paying
for the gun, and so he recognized their voices and
they start coming in and out of his view, and
you know, he hears the gunshot and he runs out
and he sees Candido get into the white Monte Carlo
and drive away, and he basically broke down and apologized
to Joaquin's family and explained that while he was in
(31:26):
he'd been a shot caller initially, and so he felt like,
you know, in addition to the normal amount of trouble
you can get in in prison for stitching, that he,
especially as someone who'd sort of enforced those rules, would
be even more in danger. And for a long time
he'd hope to be able to get his own revenge,
that at some point Candido would get locked up and
he would be able to avenge Felix's death, and in
(31:51):
some ways, fortunately that never happened, and instead he gets
out and tells the truth, and that really broke open
the case.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And Ellen also tracked a couple of people that George
Rilla had talked to and had told them Joaquin was innocent.
One was Joaquin's sister, Denise, and the other was a
woman named Kadi Dad Gonzales.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
She was friends with Nellie Hernandez, George's mother, and also
knew Joaquin through Nelly and through the Cuban community. George
tells her also, so it's very similar to what he
said to Denise, that he knows Joaquin is innocent and
didn't do this. And so we had these two statements
from George Verilla to two different people saying that Joaquin
was innocent and also saying that it was another Cuban man.
(32:32):
And so Candy ro Diez is not only Cuban but
also matches the original description. He was always had his
hair in an afro, He was known to wear long
trench coats. And it turns out he'd had this, you know,
ongoing and escalating feud with Felix Pasta Rica right before
the murder, and it all started over the weapon that
may actually have been used, A forty four, which was
(32:53):
actually the weapon they said was used to kill Felix
Pasta Rica. So Ellen had done most of the investigation
by the time she came to me. And it was
only the Roberto piece that came afterwards, but we really
felt like that pushed it over the top. And then
the Innocence Commission also got an eyewitness I D expert
to look at the eyewitnesses and just really explain and
(33:15):
under the social science that we now know even more.
While all of those, all the reasons eyewitness identifications are unreliable,
but we're especially so in this case.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Well not just unreliable. I believe one of the witnesses,
Kathleen Gavada, had another reason to identify Joaquin.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know, the same woman I say from the BORGINI
now that I hold the pa SHOLDI nimin, I only
atey poucing and later you know, to give you diffending
change and watch you see, well she gotla.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
So, Paige, after all this new information you put in
front of them, did the courts quickly agree that Joaquin
was innocent?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I mean we expected them to, especially because the DA's
office was on.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Board, and that was District Ernie chess A Bodin, who
was repeatedly under fire from the police union and adversaries.
There were I think like two recall elections, so his
political foot and was never secure, and he was the
one that was making the recommendation based on the Innocence
Commission findings.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
They had this separate Innocence Commission, right, that was supposed
to be this independent body. It had DA's public defenders, experts,
law professors, you know, like this whole commission of different
stakeholders who all agreed Joaquin is fully innocent. And in
my experience, usually when that happens, the courts are pretty
willing to go along pretty quickly, right. But unfortunately we
had the exact opposite experience here, and I can only
(34:38):
imagine some of that was the politics going on in
San Francisco. The court essentially just the first thing they
did was ask us to do another round of briefing,
and they invited the Attorney General's office, in which you
know doesn't generally happen in superior court. But here's the
court saying, you know, District Attorney, I don't trust what
you have to say, and so Attorney General, I'm inviting
you in to tell me something different. Fortunately, the AG's
(35:02):
office also saw that this wasn't a case to oppose.
Everything pointed to Jacquin's innocence. There's no reliable evidence of
guilt anywhere. But even after you know, a second round
of briefing in the AG's office, refusing to come in,
they still had us have an evident you're hearing. And
so here we are both sides arguing for the same thing.
So we're both presenting opening statements on Joaquin being innocent,
(35:24):
and then we're both doing closing arguments about how he's
entitled to relief and how we all believe he's innocent
and the judge should reverse his conviction. Luckily, by then
we'd been switched to a different judge, was a really good,
experienced judge and just saw all the problems with the case.
And then finally, on April eighteenth, the court reversed Joaquin's
conviction and the district attorneys again announced he was innocent.
(35:48):
They dismissed all of the charges.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Man, I almost fail to be fluw yes, to go
out to the freedom that I want, denying for almost
thirty two yeah, and I don't even know how to
make it all the way to the door, you know,
And I keep walking. I'm walking, imagin you know, when
(36:12):
when they open the door to me and I see
you know, I see pay ailing my son and my
baby's mama. I see everybody. Man, it was too much
for me. I say, my god, it was a day unbelievable.
This type of feeling. You have to really go through
(36:35):
that for you can really have the thing what I'm
talking about. It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. And of course we're
all super grateful to the Northern California Innocent Project and
the fantastic work that they do because it's through them
that people like Joaquin can you know, have a chance
to get back to this free world. So if anyone
want to show the Northern California Innocent Projects some love,
we'll have the link in the bios so you can
(37:06):
do that. So we've got to the point of the
show where we do this thing called closing arguments. And
first I want to thank you all for being here,
and I also want to ask y'all to share your
final thoughts for the listeners, you know, anything that you
want to say, any takeaway you may have, and page
(37:26):
I want to first start with you and then we
can close with Joaquin.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
So the thing that I think we haven't done a
great job of yet, especially in San Francisco is like,
we know, there was this era in which they were
treating especially young black men terribly and saw themselves as
like cleaning up the streets by somehow getting people involved
in homicides and throwing them away for life. And there
are six people who've been exonerated out of San Francisco,
(37:53):
all of them are black men, and five of them
are from this nineteen ninety era. They all have incredible story.
You should look into all of them. Joaquin, Maurice Caldwell,
Antoine Goff, John Tennyson, and Kara mad Conley, who I
know you've already interviewed, But what we haven't done is
look back at what else went wrong there. So it
shouldn't be luck of the draw, right whose cases get
(38:14):
looked at and who gets picked up? And so Headwoaquin
not you know, convinced other incarcerated folks that he was
innocent and then one of them meeting Ellen, like you know,
this luck of the draw thing. It's not okay for
justice to be that arbitrary with what little justice exists
in our system. And so my hope and listeners, I'd
(38:35):
love for you to encourage this is that we actually
look back there's four homicide investigators who were involved in
all of these cases. We could look at their cases,
We could look at all cases from this era. You know,
cdcr's budget for this year is over fourteen billion dollars.
Just imagine what would happen if we just spent a
tiny fraction of that on actually looking for where things
(38:56):
went wrong, starting with the places we already know things
went Everybody should have a chance to prove themselves. No
one's as bad as the worst thing they've ever done.
And you know, these guys who have done all this
time like you are Land, like Yuki, and who have
come out and shown like I mean, one of the
things I just love also about what you've been doing
is just highlighting the humanity of people right whether they're
(39:18):
incarcerated or not. We are all have this huge amount
to offer and give, and I just would love for
us to stop leaving so many people behind and really
start focusing on using our resources in better ways.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
What I want to say, you know, to all be listening.
I want to lay everybody know that what happened to
me is continually happy right now, and the only way
it can be at top we all have to come
out together and do something about it. I always say,
if we're capable to go to the moon, we have
(39:57):
to be capable to prevent the anal same peace go
to prison. Simple like that. How can you go to
the moon but you cannot premain one person to go
to prison. It domain saying I know right now, at
this moment, in some part of the country in a
court house, somebody's going to prison right now, being innocing.
(40:20):
It is no doubt in my mind. And he going
through for the same thing that I go through when
I was in that position. I know we can stop it.
I know we can do so anything about it because
I know Number one is we need to make the
dis Ratney accountable for any wrong doing that they do.
(40:44):
And I said the every dish Ratney. No, we got
some really good dist rattorney that they do their job,
they go by the law and they honest the people,
how walking people. But we got some other one that
they don't care, they don't kate. They want to wing
our CAGs O this fasic or the egocent people. We
(41:08):
have to stop. Doc.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your guest host
Erline Woods. I like to thank executive producers Jason Flumm
and Kevin Waters for inviting me to be here. Good
Looking Special thanks to our wonderful production team Connor Hall,
Annie Chelsea, Lila Robinson and Jeff Clyburn. The music in
this production comes from three time Oscar numberee Jay Raff.
(41:38):
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
Rome Conviction, as well as Lava for Good. On all
three platforms. You can find me online at Erline Woods,
and you can find my podcast ear Hustle wherever you
listen to podcasts. Wrongful Conviction is a productiontion a Blober
(42:00):
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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