March 31, 2025 • 18 mins
Hugh Millen joins Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain to talk about the Seahawks search to find offensive linemen and if they should draft someone early, who they could select with the 18th overall pick, plus react to Puka Nacua’s comments about early retirement.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, joining us right now on the radio show.
He joins us every Friday at five, Monday.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
At four a little more at four with Humillan right
now on the radio show. Here wee. How are you man?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
What's happening? Guys? I'm well, good, good good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
So the owners meetings in Palm Beach, Florida, and Michael
Sean Dugard Hugh had a tweet he sent out today
where he basically's paraphrasing kind of what John Schneider has
been saying about the offensive line and such. And one
of the things that Mike said is that John Schneider
is asking fans to trust the process with the offensive line,
to which Dick and I and Jackson would just wonder, okay,
(00:37):
what about the process has worked that we should then.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Trust well, John Schnyder said in March of twenty twenty four,
regarding offensive guards, quote, guys get overdrafted at that position,
and in my opinion, they get overpaid. End quote recently
a couple of weeks ago, he said, quote regarding offensive
the offensive lineman, they interier. You, guys, you can't just
(01:03):
throw money at marginal play. So you ask Okay, the process.
Let's go back. There's been fifteen drafts for Schnyder in
fifteen seasons, all right, So the Seahawks have drafted twenty
five offensive linemen in those fifteen drafts. That's the third
most in the NFL. You say, well, what's the value
of it, Well, they updated Jimmy Johnson chart, which is
(01:26):
the draft value for those don't know the draft out.
Every pick has a value so that when you make
a trade, you look at the chart and you say, well, okay,
the eighth pick in the first round has x number points,
and you know the third pick in the second round
has X number and then well we got to add
more drafts to let these all equal out in points.
So the points system has been around for a long time.
(01:48):
In the Fitzgerald Spielberger chart, that is favored OTC is
the one over the counter. They over the cap. Rather,
they they reference that the Seahawks have seventeen thousand, eight
hundred and sixteen points dedicated. That is first in the
NFL over the last fifteen years, nine hundred and seventy
(02:08):
nine more than the Colts who are at number two.
The gap between one and two again, Seattle number one.
The gap between one and two is greater than the
gap between two and nine. If you prefer the Harvard
Sports Analysis Collective, which kind of came at it from
a different angle. The Seahawks are also number one in that.
Now let's switch gear and say, okay, what kind of production,
(02:30):
what kind of performance they had? Now I'm going to
reference You could go sacks, but then quarterbacks are involved
on that. I'm gonna reference Pro Football Focus, who grades
every lineman, and then they come out with their offensive
line grades after every season. And this is not just
Wally website in the garage. This is owned by by
(02:51):
Chris Collinsworth. Every single team in the NFL, every single
team subscribes to Pro Football Focus. Okay, I'm not saying
they're the Bible, but I'm just laying that out. They're
the source. From twenty ten to two thousand and twenty four,
in terms of the average fifteen seasons, the Seahawks have
averaged their place where one would be the best. Right,
(03:12):
because you're ranking, this is the ranking. The Seahawks have averaged,
ranking twenty five point one. That is dead last. So
what's the summary you've taken that over fifteen years? You
have tried the hardest in the draft, as reflected by
the draft value, and you have performed the worst. We
(03:35):
are talking about authentic futility here. Wow, and so look,
so nothing about the process we should trust. Nothing about
the process that trust.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Right, Here's how I would change the process. I understand
what you're talking about in the charts and everything. I
would change the process by actually taking an interior offensive
lineman in the draft. I'm talking about eighteen. I'm talking
about high in the second round. When you have a
high second round pick. The highest guy in the last
(04:08):
eight years is Damian Lewis at sixty nine. The best
chance of you to get a rock solid all Pro
Pro Bowl caliber center or guard is to draft them
in the first round.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
And they never ever do that.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, they take offensive tackles and slide them inside. I mean,
the last time they took a guard of any consequence,
you know, in the top twenty here they said at eighteen.
They took Hutchinson at seventeen, right, And I don't think
anybody ever regrets that. I mean, if you really have
a player that has that type of ability and can
change the tenor of your offensive line, room really be
(04:45):
a leader bring some nastiness. Then I do think it's
worth the eighteenth pick, particularly when you consider the statistics
I've been citing, and just to close the loop on
those points, because one might be saying, well, what's the
correlation super Bowl winners over the last fifteen Now, the
Seahawks when they won the Super Bowl, they had the
twenty seventh ranked offensive line by PFF. Well, what did
(05:06):
they have? They had a an athletic quarterback. They had
the number one defense, the only defense in the history
of the NFL to go four straight years with the
fewest points allowed. Look it up.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And of course they had Marshon Lynch. And I remember
doing KGr on Monday's Guys with you guys, and I
use the term byob for marsh On Lynch those years.
I'd say, wait a minute, Marshon Lynch has to be
his own blocker. Be your own blocker, Marshall, because I
would look at it, I say, wait a minute, that's inside zone.
That guard should be he should be double team. He
should be getting he said, at least be trying to
buy block the Mike linebacker. And they weren't even trying.
(05:43):
They it was just Mars on against the mike linebacker,
over and over and over and over again on these plays.
And and by the way, the Seahawks have finished in
the top half one time in fifteen years. Yeah, the
Packers have been in the top half fourteen times, the
Eagles twelve. You said, well, okay, what did Schneider in
my last point, Schneider inherited there were seventeenth offensive line
(06:07):
in the year before they got there, and they dropped
to twenty second. Well, teams make fast gains. There were
forty four times where a team made a gain of
thirteen or more, which is Seattle's best game. But again,
they've only been the top half one half. The Cowboys
went from twenty seventh to first one year. The Titans
back when they went one thirteen game, they went from
(06:27):
twenty ninth to first. So you can make a jump
in one year, just the Seahawks haven't done it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, Well, Humilin's with us a little more at four.
So what is Kubiak looking for?
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
If we're to kind of handicap all right, here's the
type of offensive lineman that Clint Kubiak is looking for.
Maybe there's a trait like when it comes to DBS.
We always looked at arm length under Pete Carroll and
John Schneider. What are we looking for when it comes
to a lineman that fits escape.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, when you look at offensive guards and you look
kind of say, okay, you evaluate if a guy's got power,
you'd say, well, we want to keep him in a
phone booth, right, just so he doesn't have to move around,
and and if he has a suspect athleticism, it's going
to get revealed right that the number. There's four main
(07:14):
plays at running plays in the National Football League. Inside zone,
outside zone, what's called gap scheme, which is power encounter.
That's where you're pull you're blocking down at the point
of attack, pulling at least a guard or maybe a
garden attackle or a garden tight end behind it. That's
gap scheme. And then there's what's called duo, which is
(07:34):
is is like a gap scheme at the front, but
they don't you don't have a puller. But basically, inside
zone is twenty eight percent most teams. That's the number
one play. The Seaorks are going to go to an
outside zone. Last year at New Ordans, where Kubiak was,
the Saints were second in the league in outside zone percentage,
(07:55):
they were at thirty four point seven percent. That was
second next to on Atlanta the Seahawks. Meanwhile, they were
twenty fourth in the league at outside zone at fourteen percent.
So we're gonna go from fourteen percent outside zone to
thirty five percent.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
And now I was in Denver, Yeah, with Alex Gibbs,
who was considered the godfather of the outside zone. He
would conduct the install meetings for everybody, the entire offense,
and I just sit and listen and take notes. And
so one of the things I can say, just condensing
this every scheme that I described, at some point a
guard you're gonna have a double team. But at some
(08:31):
point a guard's got to be in space. If you're
inside zone, where you'd say, okay, that's a power we're
gonna move straight forward. You still at some point you've
got that guard on. Depending on the front, is gonna
have to get out to the linebacker level and have
enough athleticism to block a guard. If you're running power
gap scheme, Yeah, the guard who's not pulling, he can
(08:52):
be at the offensive line. He can block in a
phone booth. But the opposite guard, he's got to pull around,
fold in behind the mess and then line up and
fit on a on a linebacker in space. And of
course everybody has to do screens, so even in the duo,
the duo, you're gonna have a double team at the
point of attack and then somebody eventually you're gonna have
(09:12):
to go out and playing space. So there's no scheme
where a guy is not gonna have to have his
athleticism on display. But the outside zone, that's a play
where your your lateral quit, your quick feet. You're trying
to reach an offensive lineman a defensive lineman. Rather, you're
trying to get to his outside shoulder and swing your
(09:33):
hips around and get your hips in the hole. So
there is more of that lateral athleticism that is required.
And and and the quick story in that regard I
mentioned the Broncos and what have you. They had, Uh,
my first year with the Broncos, they had a center
on on the practice squad, a seventh rounder kid named
Tom Nalen who went to Boston College. We had a
(09:55):
little New England thing going because I had played for
the Patriots when he was playing in college. Anyways, this
guy was seventh rounder, six to two and seven eights
two eighty pounds. He was considered short and light, not
a lot of power, but he was relatively quick. Again,
only a seventh rounder. Mike Shanahan came in and Alex
Gibbs came in and they looked at that Tommy and
(10:15):
you know, hey, that Tommy Nalen's pretty good. Well next scene. Unbeknownst,
I never could have predicted. Tom Nalen went to five
Pro Bowls and he was twice named first team All Pro.
When when Terrell Davis and all those guys, he was
in the center of an offensive line, didn't matter who
the running back was, they were gonna get thirteen hundred yards.
You could just book it. A reason I bring that up,
that's a long story here is that the on the
(10:38):
assistant offensive line coach behind Alex Gibbs on that staff
was Rick Dennison. Rick Dennison today for twenty twenty five
season is the run game coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks.
So he has been indoctrinated into that Alex Gibbs type
of thinking. He so there could be some guys where
you're looking, say a little bit smaller, but have a
(11:01):
little bit of that lateral quickness. Uh and as long
as the guy's not a dummy, because that was a
big thing for Alex Gibbs. He's got hit me on
a head with a pan if I ever draft a dummy.
Uh so got you gotta be smart and they're willing
to give up something on the size and the strength,
as long as the guy has good feet.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Hugh Pooka Nakula this week from the Rams, admitted on
a podcast that he wants to retire from the NFL
at the age of thirty. He's telling everybody out there,
I'm done at the age of thirty.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What do you think of that plan?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And then more so him just telling his employer future
employers that he's done in like six years.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Well, I had not heard that. That's interesting, that's unusual,
and those type of things. I always just say, hey,
it's a it's a guy's values. And if you had
to probe him and he would amplify his thoughts, I'm
sure he would just say, hey, I have other values,
other things he wants to do. Maybe he does. He
wants to preserve his body.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
He was that five five plus kids.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
He says he wants to Okay, well, you know his
value family. Yeah, then then you know, And then I
hope he you know, plans well and and saves well
and and he should make enough money that if he
doesn't want to live like Mick Jagger, he should be
set for life by the time he's done, based on
how his career is going. But he was a fifth
rounder and he's playing on a rookie contract right where
they have they have not re upped it, right, I
(12:20):
don't believe so yeah, yeah, yeah, So when he goes
to the table, uh yeah, they're they're gonna have to
pay that guy. But I'll tell you what they with
DeVante Adams. I think right now, DeVante Adams, of all
of all veterans that have moved teams, I think he
has the chance to make the biggest impact of any
football player in the league as veterans switching teams.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Hugh, before you go, I got one more for you,
Dick may have one more if we can fit it in.
Uh Seahawks picking at eighteen for now. I mean that's
if they stay there, which I mean got if to bet,
i'd say they trade down.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But whatever, that's not I'm not breaking new ground with
that opinion. There Einstein.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Uh, give us a couple of names of guys that
they teen that you think could be a real possibility
that maybe people aren't really.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Talking about yet.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Well, I think that we kind of talked about into
your alignement. Everybody's been talking about that. The number one
guy is Tyler Booker. I don't know that he fits
that outside zone scheme. I've made a Tate ratledge out
of Georgia the right guard. He had the number one
three cone time, he had the number one forty times,
he broke five flat, He had the number one time
(13:28):
for a guard, and his ten yard split of one
seven to two was also number one. So I think
there's some athleticism there. So let's do a deep dive
on him and climb under the hood and see whether
or not he's worth the eighteenth pick. Gray Zabel is
a guy you're gonna hear talk about. I don't know, man.
I just put on the tape and watched him at
left tackle North Dakota State, and I was having flashbacks
(13:50):
PTSD of all the Trey Lance tape that I watched,
trying to figure out whether or not a guy from
that school can play in the NFL. But I'll give
you two, I'll two. I think there's a lot of
people who have been talking about the receiver out of
Texas that you know, because now there's a void, right
(14:12):
and Matthew Golden, there's there's a lot of people in
this market. I've heard Matthew Golden's name, you know, a
hundred times. I haven't heard Ted McMillan's name. And from
a scheme standpoint, the Arizona wide receiver, Seattle needs a
the Seahawks need an ex receiver, and next receivers is
is generally on the weak side of theformation, tethered to
the line, and and the size that you that you
(14:35):
need with the next receiver. I think that given that
you have Jackson Smith and Jigba and you have you know,
Cooper Cup coming in, I think Matthew Golden isn't as
much of a scheme fit in my mind as Ted mcmillans.
So let's see if if at eighteen tech McMillan's there.
But I think he's a better fit than Matthew Golden.
And of course you have a need there. In my mind,
(14:56):
not sure they're going to pull the triver off with
the eight thing overall, pick but one name. Look, Ty
WARN's the best tight end. I think that he just
has gronk stamped all over his body. I think the
guy's floor is about as high as a player could be.
I don't think he's going to be there at eighteen.
But Colston Loveland, you know, a big time athlete, you know,
(15:21):
and great target, sixty six, tough guy, and and of
course Mike McDonald had, you know, coach there. There's that
Michigan connection that Mike McDonald has. I think for Seattle,
the knee, you know, the desire to get into some
twelve personnel, some two tight end sets and what have.
Of course they have Barnard, they already have a Michigan guy.
(15:43):
I look, do I have the guts to predict that
they're gonna draft Colson Loveland at eighteen? Probably not. I
probably don't have the guts, but it would not surprise
me given some of these things, given where the offense
wants to go, the use of two tight ends, the
the ability of Colson leveland the Michigan connection. The idea
(16:04):
that at about eighteen, that's that's that's a proof, you know,
decent value pick. Of course, Ty Warren were to some
reason fall that then you jump at him. I don't
think that's gonna happen. So I think leveland is a
possibility there at eighteen.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Would you worry about tet McMillan when he says if
he's asked if he likes football, he says no, not
at all. And that extends to film session. It says
it's not a big deal to him. I don't do
film study on my own because we have to do
it in the receiver room.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a concern. That's a concern. I've just
watched his tape. He looks like a good competitor.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But yeah, I would he say something like, well, that's
why would a guy say, He's just a question. But
do you want to make millions? No, you want to
be a first run draft pick? No, it's it's a
h honestly, if you're his agent.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Oh, he's not happy right now? Are you kidding me?
He's not happy right now?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
No? No, I I'm a all that. I was unaware
of that quote, So I feel a little uh naked
right here. Damn that is that that's uh, that's good action.
I'm sure I would have unearthed that between now and
our mock draft and draft coverage. I've just been you know,
I've been going, uh, you know, great Cosell, this is
what the tape shows. But that is horrible.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, that is us doing. This is from a pot
This is from an older podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
But but it doesn't but Dick, uh, it doesn't just
reflect on where his heart is and his competitiveness. It
it also reflects you know, you know, chapter two of
this is what kind of idiot are you that you
don't have the judgment?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Oh god, I hope they just sit on that anyway,
you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
If they drafted kid at number eighteen, the conversation we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Have if they draft this kid? Oh boy?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Can we can we unwind that part where I thought
that the work?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We just go back and Jackson pulled that from the Okay,
all right, Hugh weet, good stuff. We gotta run.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
We'll talk on Friday, okay, buddy, Thanks man. Alright, alright,
you milling with us on the radio show. Wow, we're
gonna break a lot more to get to on a
busy Monday. Mike the course, he talking final four five
right here ninety three three kJ R F M
All right, joining us right now on the radio show.
He joins us every Friday at five, Monday.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
At four a little more at four with Humillan right
now on the radio show. Here wee. How are you man?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
What's happening? Guys? I'm well, good, good good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
So the owners meetings in Palm Beach, Florida, and Michael
Sean Dugard Hugh had a tweet he sent out today
where he basically's paraphrasing kind of what John Schneider has
been saying about the offensive line and such. And one
of the things that Mike said is that John Schneider
is asking fans to trust the process with the offensive line,
to which Dick and I and Jackson would just wonder, okay,
(00:37):
what about the process has worked that we should then.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Trust well, John Schnyder said in March of twenty twenty four,
regarding offensive guards, quote, guys get overdrafted at that position,
and in my opinion, they get overpaid. End quote recently
a couple of weeks ago, he said, quote regarding offensive
the offensive lineman, they interier. You, guys, you can't just
(01:03):
throw money at marginal play. So you ask Okay, the process.
Let's go back. There's been fifteen drafts for Schnyder in
fifteen seasons, all right, So the Seahawks have drafted twenty
five offensive linemen in those fifteen drafts. That's the third
most in the NFL. You say, well, what's the value
of it, Well, they updated Jimmy Johnson chart, which is
(01:26):
the draft value for those don't know the draft out.
Every pick has a value so that when you make
a trade, you look at the chart and you say, well, okay,
the eighth pick in the first round has x number points,
and you know the third pick in the second round
has X number and then well we got to add
more drafts to let these all equal out in points.
So the points system has been around for a long time.
(01:48):
In the Fitzgerald Spielberger chart, that is favored OTC is
the one over the counter. They over the cap. Rather,
they they reference that the Seahawks have seventeen thousand, eight
hundred and sixteen points dedicated. That is first in the
NFL over the last fifteen years, nine hundred and seventy
(02:08):
nine more than the Colts who are at number two.
The gap between one and two again, Seattle number one.
The gap between one and two is greater than the
gap between two and nine. If you prefer the Harvard
Sports Analysis Collective, which kind of came at it from
a different angle. The Seahawks are also number one in that.
Now let's switch gear and say, okay, what kind of production,
(02:30):
what kind of performance they had? Now I'm going to
reference You could go sacks, but then quarterbacks are involved
on that. I'm gonna reference Pro Football Focus, who grades
every lineman, and then they come out with their offensive
line grades after every season. And this is not just
Wally website in the garage. This is owned by by
(02:51):
Chris Collinsworth. Every single team in the NFL, every single
team subscribes to Pro Football Focus. Okay, I'm not saying
they're the Bible, but I'm just laying that out. They're
the source. From twenty ten to two thousand and twenty four,
in terms of the average fifteen seasons, the Seahawks have
averaged their place where one would be the best. Right,
(03:12):
because you're ranking, this is the ranking. The Seahawks have averaged,
ranking twenty five point one. That is dead last. So
what's the summary you've taken that over fifteen years? You
have tried the hardest in the draft, as reflected by
the draft value, and you have performed the worst. We
(03:35):
are talking about authentic futility here. Wow, and so look,
so nothing about the process we should trust. Nothing about
the process that trust.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Right, Here's how I would change the process. I understand
what you're talking about in the charts and everything. I
would change the process by actually taking an interior offensive
lineman in the draft. I'm talking about eighteen. I'm talking
about high in the second round. When you have a
high second round pick. The highest guy in the last
(04:08):
eight years is Damian Lewis at sixty nine. The best
chance of you to get a rock solid all Pro
Pro Bowl caliber center or guard is to draft them
in the first round.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
And they never ever do that.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, they take offensive tackles and slide them inside. I mean,
the last time they took a guard of any consequence,
you know, in the top twenty here they said at eighteen.
They took Hutchinson at seventeen, right, And I don't think
anybody ever regrets that. I mean, if you really have
a player that has that type of ability and can
change the tenor of your offensive line, room really be
(04:45):
a leader bring some nastiness. Then I do think it's
worth the eighteenth pick, particularly when you consider the statistics
I've been citing, and just to close the loop on
those points, because one might be saying, well, what's the
correlation super Bowl winners over the last fifteen Now, the
Seahawks when they won the Super Bowl, they had the
twenty seventh ranked offensive line by PFF. Well, what did
(05:06):
they have? They had a an athletic quarterback. They had
the number one defense, the only defense in the history
of the NFL to go four straight years with the
fewest points allowed. Look it up.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And of course they had Marshon Lynch. And I remember
doing KGr on Monday's Guys with you guys, and I
use the term byob for marsh On Lynch those years.
I'd say, wait a minute, Marshon Lynch has to be
his own blocker. Be your own blocker, Marshall, because I
would look at it, I say, wait a minute, that's inside zone.
That guard should be he should be double team. He
should be getting he said, at least be trying to
buy block the Mike linebacker. And they weren't even trying.
(05:43):
They it was just Mars on against the mike linebacker,
over and over and over and over again on these plays.
And and by the way, the Seahawks have finished in
the top half one time in fifteen years. Yeah, the
Packers have been in the top half fourteen times, the
Eagles twelve. You said, well, okay, what did Schneider in
my last point, Schneider inherited there were seventeenth offensive line
(06:07):
in the year before they got there, and they dropped
to twenty second. Well, teams make fast gains. There were
forty four times where a team made a gain of
thirteen or more, which is Seattle's best game. But again,
they've only been the top half one half. The Cowboys
went from twenty seventh to first one year. The Titans
back when they went one thirteen game, they went from
(06:27):
twenty ninth to first. So you can make a jump
in one year, just the Seahawks haven't done it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, Well, Humilin's with us a little more at four.
So what is Kubiak looking for?
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
If we're to kind of handicap all right, here's the
type of offensive lineman that Clint Kubiak is looking for.
Maybe there's a trait like when it comes to DBS.
We always looked at arm length under Pete Carroll and
John Schneider. What are we looking for when it comes
to a lineman that fits escape.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, when you look at offensive guards and you look
kind of say, okay, you evaluate if a guy's got power,
you'd say, well, we want to keep him in a
phone booth, right, just so he doesn't have to move around,
and and if he has a suspect athleticism, it's going
to get revealed right that the number. There's four main
(07:14):
plays at running plays in the National Football League. Inside zone,
outside zone, what's called gap scheme, which is power encounter.
That's where you're pull you're blocking down at the point
of attack, pulling at least a guard or maybe a
garden attackle or a garden tight end behind it. That's
gap scheme. And then there's what's called duo, which is
(07:34):
is is like a gap scheme at the front, but
they don't you don't have a puller. But basically, inside
zone is twenty eight percent most teams. That's the number
one play. The Seaorks are going to go to an
outside zone. Last year at New Ordans, where Kubiak was,
the Saints were second in the league in outside zone percentage,
(07:55):
they were at thirty four point seven percent. That was
second next to on Atlanta the Seahawks. Meanwhile, they were
twenty fourth in the league at outside zone at fourteen percent.
So we're gonna go from fourteen percent outside zone to
thirty five percent.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
And now I was in Denver, Yeah, with Alex Gibbs,
who was considered the godfather of the outside zone. He
would conduct the install meetings for everybody, the entire offense,
and I just sit and listen and take notes. And
so one of the things I can say, just condensing
this every scheme that I described, at some point a
guard you're gonna have a double team. But at some
(08:31):
point a guard's got to be in space. If you're
inside zone, where you'd say, okay, that's a power we're
gonna move straight forward. You still at some point you've
got that guard on. Depending on the front, is gonna
have to get out to the linebacker level and have
enough athleticism to block a guard. If you're running power
gap scheme, Yeah, the guard who's not pulling, he can
(08:52):
be at the offensive line. He can block in a
phone booth. But the opposite guard, he's got to pull around,
fold in behind the mess and then line up and
fit on a on a linebacker in space. And of
course everybody has to do screens, so even in the duo,
the duo, you're gonna have a double team at the
point of attack and then somebody eventually you're gonna have
(09:12):
to go out and playing space. So there's no scheme
where a guy is not gonna have to have his
athleticism on display. But the outside zone, that's a play
where your your lateral quit, your quick feet. You're trying
to reach an offensive lineman a defensive lineman. Rather, you're
trying to get to his outside shoulder and swing your
(09:33):
hips around and get your hips in the hole. So
there is more of that lateral athleticism that is required.
And and and the quick story in that regard I
mentioned the Broncos and what have you. They had, Uh,
my first year with the Broncos, they had a center
on on the practice squad, a seventh rounder kid named
Tom Nalen who went to Boston College. We had a
(09:55):
little New England thing going because I had played for
the Patriots when he was playing in college. Anyways, this
guy was seventh rounder, six to two and seven eights
two eighty pounds. He was considered short and light, not
a lot of power, but he was relatively quick. Again,
only a seventh rounder. Mike Shanahan came in and Alex
Gibbs came in and they looked at that Tommy and
(10:15):
you know, hey, that Tommy Nalen's pretty good. Well next scene. Unbeknownst,
I never could have predicted. Tom Nalen went to five
Pro Bowls and he was twice named first team All Pro.
When when Terrell Davis and all those guys, he was
in the center of an offensive line, didn't matter who
the running back was, they were gonna get thirteen hundred yards.
You could just book it. A reason I bring that up,
that's a long story here is that the on the
(10:38):
assistant offensive line coach behind Alex Gibbs on that staff
was Rick Dennison. Rick Dennison today for twenty twenty five
season is the run game coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks.
So he has been indoctrinated into that Alex Gibbs type
of thinking. He so there could be some guys where
you're looking, say a little bit smaller, but have a
(11:01):
little bit of that lateral quickness. Uh and as long
as the guy's not a dummy, because that was a
big thing for Alex Gibbs. He's got hit me on
a head with a pan if I ever draft a dummy.
Uh so got you gotta be smart and they're willing
to give up something on the size and the strength,
as long as the guy has good feet.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Hugh Pooka Nakula this week from the Rams, admitted on
a podcast that he wants to retire from the NFL
at the age of thirty. He's telling everybody out there,
I'm done at the age of thirty.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What do you think of that plan?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And then more so him just telling his employer future
employers that he's done in like six years.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Well, I had not heard that. That's interesting, that's unusual,
and those type of things. I always just say, hey,
it's a it's a guy's values. And if you had
to probe him and he would amplify his thoughts, I'm
sure he would just say, hey, I have other values,
other things he wants to do. Maybe he does. He
wants to preserve his body.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
He was that five five plus kids.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
He says he wants to Okay, well, you know his
value family. Yeah, then then you know, And then I
hope he you know, plans well and and saves well
and and he should make enough money that if he
doesn't want to live like Mick Jagger, he should be
set for life by the time he's done, based on
how his career is going. But he was a fifth
rounder and he's playing on a rookie contract right where
they have they have not re upped it, right, I
(12:20):
don't believe so yeah, yeah, yeah, So when he goes
to the table, uh yeah, they're they're gonna have to
pay that guy. But I'll tell you what they with
DeVante Adams. I think right now, DeVante Adams, of all
of all veterans that have moved teams, I think he
has the chance to make the biggest impact of any
football player in the league as veterans switching teams.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Hugh, before you go, I got one more for you,
Dick may have one more if we can fit it in.
Uh Seahawks picking at eighteen for now. I mean that's
if they stay there, which I mean got if to bet,
i'd say they trade down.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But whatever, that's not I'm not breaking new ground with
that opinion. There Einstein.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Uh, give us a couple of names of guys that
they teen that you think could be a real possibility
that maybe people aren't really.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Talking about yet.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Well, I think that we kind of talked about into
your alignement. Everybody's been talking about that. The number one
guy is Tyler Booker. I don't know that he fits
that outside zone scheme. I've made a Tate ratledge out
of Georgia the right guard. He had the number one
three cone time, he had the number one forty times,
he broke five flat, He had the number one time
(13:28):
for a guard, and his ten yard split of one
seven to two was also number one. So I think
there's some athleticism there. So let's do a deep dive
on him and climb under the hood and see whether
or not he's worth the eighteenth pick. Gray Zabel is
a guy you're gonna hear talk about. I don't know, man.
I just put on the tape and watched him at
left tackle North Dakota State, and I was having flashbacks
(13:50):
PTSD of all the Trey Lance tape that I watched,
trying to figure out whether or not a guy from
that school can play in the NFL. But I'll give
you two, I'll two. I think there's a lot of
people who have been talking about the receiver out of
Texas that you know, because now there's a void, right
(14:12):
and Matthew Golden, there's there's a lot of people in
this market. I've heard Matthew Golden's name, you know, a
hundred times. I haven't heard Ted McMillan's name. And from
a scheme standpoint, the Arizona wide receiver, Seattle needs a
the Seahawks need an ex receiver, and next receivers is
is generally on the weak side of theformation, tethered to
the line, and and the size that you that you
(14:35):
need with the next receiver. I think that given that
you have Jackson Smith and Jigba and you have you know,
Cooper Cup coming in, I think Matthew Golden isn't as
much of a scheme fit in my mind as Ted mcmillans.
So let's see if if at eighteen tech McMillan's there.
But I think he's a better fit than Matthew Golden.
And of course you have a need there. In my mind,
(14:56):
not sure they're going to pull the triver off with
the eight thing overall, pick but one name. Look, Ty
WARN's the best tight end. I think that he just
has gronk stamped all over his body. I think the
guy's floor is about as high as a player could be.
I don't think he's going to be there at eighteen.
But Colston Loveland, you know, a big time athlete, you know,
(15:21):
and great target, sixty six, tough guy, and and of
course Mike McDonald had, you know, coach there. There's that
Michigan connection that Mike McDonald has. I think for Seattle,
the knee, you know, the desire to get into some
twelve personnel, some two tight end sets and what have.
Of course they have Barnard, they already have a Michigan guy.
(15:43):
I look, do I have the guts to predict that
they're gonna draft Colson Loveland at eighteen? Probably not. I
probably don't have the guts, but it would not surprise
me given some of these things, given where the offense
wants to go, the use of two tight ends, the
the ability of Colson leveland the Michigan connection. The idea
(16:04):
that at about eighteen, that's that's that's a proof, you know,
decent value pick. Of course, Ty Warren were to some
reason fall that then you jump at him. I don't
think that's gonna happen. So I think leveland is a
possibility there at eighteen.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Would you worry about tet McMillan when he says if
he's asked if he likes football, he says no, not
at all. And that extends to film session. It says
it's not a big deal to him. I don't do
film study on my own because we have to do
it in the receiver room.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a concern. That's a concern. I've just
watched his tape. He looks like a good competitor.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But yeah, I would he say something like, well, that's
why would a guy say, He's just a question. But
do you want to make millions? No, you want to
be a first run draft pick? No, it's it's a
h honestly, if you're his agent.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Oh, he's not happy right now? Are you kidding me?
He's not happy right now?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
No? No, I I'm a all that. I was unaware
of that quote, So I feel a little uh naked
right here. Damn that is that that's uh, that's good action.
I'm sure I would have unearthed that between now and
our mock draft and draft coverage. I've just been you know,
I've been going, uh, you know, great Cosell, this is
what the tape shows. But that is horrible.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, that is us doing. This is from a pot
This is from an older podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
But but it doesn't but Dick, uh, it doesn't just
reflect on where his heart is and his competitiveness. It
it also reflects you know, you know, chapter two of
this is what kind of idiot are you that you
don't have the judgment?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Oh god, I hope they just sit on that anyway,
you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
If they drafted kid at number eighteen, the conversation we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Have if they draft this kid? Oh boy?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Can we can we unwind that part where I thought
that the work?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We just go back and Jackson pulled that from the Okay,
all right, Hugh weet, good stuff. We gotta run.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
We'll talk on Friday, okay, buddy, Thanks man. Alright, alright,
you milling with us on the radio show. Wow, we're
gonna break a lot more to get to on a
busy Monday. Mike the course, he talking final four five
right here ninety three three kJ R F M
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