Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 79: Sharpest Needle In The Tack - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Last Hello, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Every Wednesday we recap oled shows with all new commentary,
updates and insights, and as of this week, we have
been doing those shows for ten years.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh my god, Happy tenth anniversary to us, to you guys,
to everybody. Hey, today we're recapping episode seventy.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Nine, Oh a Little Baby.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Which we named sharpest Needle in the Tack, which is
definitely something I.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Said, but that really sounds like a Georgia ism, it does.
This episode came out July twenty seventh, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Okay, so let's listen to the intro of episode seventy nine. Hi,
listen to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
This is the podcast where we tell you true crimes
and horrible things that have happened to good people.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, and a little about ourselves sometimes when we oh,
just a touch about ourselves when we feel like going
on a tangent.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Which is every single episode for a minimum forty nine minutes,
it sprinkled throughout.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Get ready.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh yeah, so we don't just keep it at the top.
We'll put in the middle and then also at the end.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
I mean, listen, look, look, and listen.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Okay, So we should probably start with the biggest announcement
and the one that people constantly tweet us about and
ask us about.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you for your interest.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
We are going on tour again and we are now
going to announce the dates of our Australian and American tour.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah. Are you ready to hear what we're doing?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, Australia you know already. But we're adding a couple shows. Actually,
so New Zealand Auckland is there are still tickets available.
It's on Wednesday, September sixteenth, and then September sixth, Thank.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
You, Wendy. September sixth, the beginning of September.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
And then we're adding shows in Melbourne and Sydney because
we have two shows in each and they sold or
one or they sold out. So September tenth in Melbourne
at the Comedy Theater, Melbourne and September twelfth in Sydney, Australia.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
There's another show at the at the Opera House. At
the Sydney Opera House side room. We're in the jazz room. No,
I have no idea, and we're actually in the bathroom.
We're just going to be in the bathroom. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
If you want to come and talk to us at
the Sydney Opera House, we're going to be loitering in
the women's bathroom from nine tou weel.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's actually a chamber orchestra that night, but we'll be
in the bathroom. Yes, I'm really excited about a lot
of these cities, and I won't say which ones. I
was about to say which ones I'm that would be
great to.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Not for you to not say what you aren't looking
forward to. I'm not going to do that. Okay, what
else do you have? You got nothing? No, I have
a thing or two. Let's hear it.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Okay, Well it's all just like my rambling. But my
brother was on a jury where someone died. It was
like a race car guys on the street and they
crashed into a car and killed someone. And as he
was telling me, my seven year old nephew was like
yeah and like giving me details.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
So I was like, okay, he knows about it.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
How cuye would it be if I had I recorded
him talking about it a hometown and so I was like, Micah,
tell me what happened and he was just like, well,
someone died.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
It was so depressing that I was like, well, I'm okay, yeah,
not flaying that.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah that's sad. Yeah, yeah, I don't think seven. So
I'm last night at a show I did. Someone's like,
oh my nine and ten year old nieces love your show.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I was like, that's ron chilling. I don't think that's
good at all. Nine and ten year olds turned this off. Yes,
he was a couple of listeners, some awesome orderinos that
were also backstage.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
One of the guys, I'm sorry, I can't remember your name.
He goes, that's around the time I started getting interested
in true crime. And then I was like, oh, okay, okay,
then I don't feel as bad.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
That's true. I guess right. Yeah, I think for me
it was sixth grade, so kids are very advanced.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
And it's like the even though it's not true crime,
it's like the running up of it. The things are
suddenly really interested in, like scary movies and bad things
and actually, speaking of children, this girl named Sarah underscore
Hall tweeted as a photo of her nine year old
sister and she said she just named her own bat
she I guess was in baseball.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
She snamed her own bat ted bunty all on her own.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
I was like, well, that's fucking incredible. Yeah, that's hilarious. Yeah.
I mean Georgia so loves Upon. I love Upon, and
I love a nine year old you know, I love baseball.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
I mean it's everything, you love, love everything. If only
that little girl had a vintage dress of all she
did that.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Lose my mind? Later, Uh, well, I got a tweet
that I.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Found very interesting, and it's like, this is the kind
of you know, conversations.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
That we like to have.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
It was the Coastal Horizons Rape Crisis Center in Wilmington,
North CA sent to tweet. So they basically said, hey, ladies,
big fans of your podcast. However, we were disappointed to
hear the unintentional victim blaming that took place on the
twenty twenty twenty episode re Covering Your Drinks. The onus

(05:15):
is never on the victim to stop an assault. We
need to have a culture shift where instead of telling
victims what to do or not to do, tell purpse, hey,
don't rape people.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yes. Also, drug is.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
The number of alcohol is the number one drug used
to facilitate sexual assault?

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Not rufees.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
In parentheses, not saying it doesn't happen, but misinformation can
unintentionally compound victims trauma. We are a rape crisis center
in Wilmington, North Carolina, and we frequently hear victims blaming
themselves because they quote, did everything right, my friend watched
my drink, et cetera, and they are still assaulted. So
just wanted to let you all know, love your work,

(05:56):
which I think is such a good point totally Obviously
it's not like we need to make excuses, but when
we were having that conversation, we were coming from that
that point of view, which is very for me, it's very.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Eighties of like you have to you have to like
you have to be on the lookout at all times
kind of yeah, be on the defense and kind of
like be aggressively you know, aware and all that kind
of stuff. But it's such a good point that it
doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
You can be the most aware, you can be the
most you know responsible all these things, and then something
can happen to you. Yeah, and we never want people
to feel like in any way obviously that that would
be our messaging.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
So that they're to blame, because that that hurt me
so much and maybe sad of like they come in
there and.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Feel to blame.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
I mean, they didn't cover their drink like we're telling
them to do or but the fact that she said
it's usually alcohol, not it's just alcohol. It's not like
they need to roof you to take advantage or to
assault you.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
It's actually a very common thing that people use all
the time. That doesn't make anybody feel that worried in
the beginning.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
And it's the Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
I think also we were having that conversation because it
was around the time that that girl, uh it was
that thing that happened in Santa Monica where these women
saw a guy right a drug into a girl's drink
and they basically went and got her in the bathroom.
And we just saw this thing. So we were kind
of going off of that in a way. But you know,
thank you for the correction because that's a really good point,
and that really is you know, please raise your sons

(07:26):
not to ripe.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
That would be great, Yeah, that would be awesome. Did
you see the trailer for the movie My friend Dom?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Holy shit, Oh my god, we're we're not being paid.
We should be.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
I want to see it today. I know it looks
so great. It looks so good. I love that there's
not it doesn't say that there's anything about him being
an older person and actually committing is there.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
That's not what the book's about. I didn't.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I only I don't think it is, because I feel
like I did read that comic book the graphic no, right,
but I can't remember the end.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
I mean, it's just the story of him.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
But I think it's him in high school and basically
when it all started.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I think it's going on the idea that you already
know who Dahmer is and what he's done, and then
so while you're watching the movie, you're like, oh, this
is a thing that made it happen, this is a
thing that started.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
It and kind of teenage Dahmer. Yeah, it looks and
it looks so creepy and so eerie, and it's really ominous.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
They they're the very One of the first shots in
that trailer is kind of a wide of the front
of a school and it's just kids in kind of
like late seventies clothing walking around, and then you just
notice there's a guy just standing there staring, and it's
really fucking creepy.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
It almost looks like if Napoleon Dynamite was like a
scary movie.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly. You change the soundtrack to
h Dynamite.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Which I love when people. I love those those I
love like the Missus Doubtfire as a horror movie. You've
seen that one?

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Oh yeah, fucking love as a rom com or like
a family sitcom totally, or like a coming together. What's
that song?

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh? Well, is it Shakira? Were you singing Shakira? Probably
hips don't lie.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
Yes, I think it's the Soulisbury, the Peter Gabriel song
Sulisbury Hill, Yes, something like that.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Salisbury Hillsbury Hill, Okay, because I thought saying Salisbury was
clearly going to be wrong, so I didn't say it.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
You were scared to risk it. Yeah, nice steak got
you Salisbury Steak and all that.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
You know, that beautiful Peter Peter Gabriel song, Well up
on Salisbury's Steak. I love that song. It's so like
there's those weird and I don't know what instrument it.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Is, but it's like ooo, like he's blowing into a windpipe.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Is that a thing? Or like what was the one
who had to play it as a kid a recorder?
I love Peter Gabriel.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
There might be a recorder solo at the beginning of
Salisbury Hill, Salisbury's Steak, Salisbury's Steak.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
All that is misinformation, that's diary of misinformation.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Wait what were we telling you? Uh? Oh, Jeffrey's over.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Fucking If you have if you're an editor, if you
have the time, yes, if you care, could you.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Please make Napoley dyn White into it. I bet you
know a hairy movie with the soundtrack.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
I bet you could take the op the like trailer
from Napoleon Dynamite. Just put all of this the exact
same like voiceover and words from the trailer for Dahmer.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Just put him in there.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
So yeah, So it's like Napoleon Dynamite's mouth is moving
in that weird like his braces are still on, but they're.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Not mash it up. His friend, his friend is his friend, Pedro.
Pedro is the friend who wrote the book. Like it's
just perfect, it's perfect. Did you plan this?

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yes, it's all written down it see those notes.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Oh man, nothing I say is ever planned. Obviously, I
never plan anything.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
We absolutely assure you that, uh, almost nothing is pre
written on the show, even the things that are.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Supposed to be. Yeah, like our stories. I think that's
all I had. Did you have anything? I'm sure I can.
I have other things that I just can't think of,
and uh, oh, I keep writing things that I don't like.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
I'll be like, oh, I should make a note for
pre show, and then I don't know what it means.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
So I have Yan can Cook written down. I can't cook.
I feel like is from when we were talking.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
I was watching it the other night and then I
was like, I gotta talk to care about this.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
I don't remember why I would talk to you about
on a murder podcast about Yan can Cook because that
guy fucking murders chicken.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
The guy's the best. Then I wrote embarrassing illness. I
don't know what that means. That's probably Crohn's disease.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, and then I wrote start us equals anxiety? Do
you mean angel dust?

Speaker 1 (11:49):
I don't know, and I was like, I think I
felt I wrote something wrong, and I was like, I'll remember.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Were you on drugs or drink? Yes? Yes, yes, yes,
yes always?

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well how do we figure any of those things out?
You just take some time with it.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
No, I don't think we need to. I think as
long as I say them, okay, and then everyone knows.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Then if we're standing somewhere and a Yang can't cook,
whatever comes by right going to be like this is
what it is?

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah, and start ust equals anxiety, it is probably something
really interesting. Well there's a movie called Stardust is there?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah? I don't know, but why Starter's memories as a
Woody Allen movie? He would give you Adjtae.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Were, yeah, No, it's not that I haven't watched that. Okay, anxiety?
Is it that we're all made of stardust and that
makes you worried?

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I think it's that, Yeah, I think it's I think
it's that I get in I get anxious when I
think of the entirety of the universe. But I don't
know how that has to do anything with murder. Well,
we talked about that one time. We did, yes, because
I said.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Oh it was when I said, did you see that
picture from the Hubble telescope that showed universes and balls
of gas?

Speaker 3 (12:59):
And then you were like, please don't do this.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
So I must have wanted to elaborate on that, and
I was, and I was on drink.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Do you think there's a movie or something called stardust
that you saw as a child and that you discovered
why it gets so much anxiety.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
I feel like trying just generally trying to figure out
worries is a fascinating podcast, Like what are you worried?

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Isn't there a podcast? I'm being sarcastic, I'd excited.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Is you going?

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Isn't there all podcast like that? Think there is? Though,
I think I'm worried about the universe. I can't remember
how though, Yeah, I just am. I don't need to
explain why the people get everyone gets it.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Sure, I hope, Well you need to explain why if
you bring it up. Yeah, that's really your only the
only thing.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, and I did start us gives me anxiety. That's
not an explanation.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
And the enormity of the universe gives me anxiety. Oh okay,
all right, okay, okay, I do this. Yeah, I mean
I want to ask Stephen who's going? But he's not trustworthy.
Even just told me that he keeps getting it wrong,
which sucks because you're big at You're like, I'm like,
well Steven knows, Oh no.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
He doesn't. I'm no longer a rock.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
You were attacked you were attacked by that Twitter account
who was like, Steven, get it together.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
I've been wrong three times in shut up.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
You know what it is. You know what I realized,
what it is my brain was doing to me was
it's like Karen Georgia Karen, like, I'm doing that in
my brains. So that's why I kept saying you would
go first, because in my mind Georgia went last time.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
But she went last last, so you're not going.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
You're going, Karen Georgia Karen, Yes, said Karen Georgia Georgia, Karen, Karen, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
I'm just my brain completely just fell apart at that moment.
So what can we do to fix this going forward?
We have two things that people have made us of,
how to tell Twitter accounts no remember the things they
gave us that.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
You know, it was like a large abacus, Steven, get
a drive around with that in this car here. I mean,
you're out a coin or do you think you have
it this week?

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yes? I thought so too.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
I really need Stephen. Would I chuck it up? I
want to put him. I want to rake him over
the colls.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
I need Steven. You have five chances, you have you three?
I just love the idea there's a Twitter account now
attacking you because they're like the first went first.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah, well there was like they were like seventh, like
five days since accident or something.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Oh, I love it. They were like keeping track of that.
It was like this many days since.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Oh, should I give it? Elvis isn't dead? Everyone, Yes,
you should definitely, okay, give that up. So last week
I talked about how Elvis was at the vent and
how scary it was. Turns out the kitten we got
Dottie gave everyone fucking crazy and up the rest of
her infection. I thought, I really truly thought Elvis was
going to die, and I had in my cry and I,
you know, apologized to him and held him like truly

(16:09):
and he's better now, he's on the end. He's not
going to die, but he lost his voice. So cute
you have before you leave. You have to see him
open his mouth to me owt and nothing comes out. Yeah,
so maybe Dottie will have to do the sign off.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Did you see the fan art that people made of
Elvis in front of a black background and it just
says I survived on the side and then a quotes
and it's the first time I saw it. In quotes
it says, yeah, so this kitten tried to kill me dot.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Or something like that. The first time I saw it,
I almost had a hard attack.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
I was like, she sees it, She's going to fucking
shit a brick because it was he was still not
out of red Woods yet, right, and it was hilariously
awful where I was like, I think I'm going to
have to ask these people to.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Take it down now. I didn't see oh my god,
if he died ever. Yeah, so thank you ever to everyone.
And everyone was so sweet and yes, you know, and
said nice things and reassured me and yeah he that
that was like, he's not going to die. Calm down,
So yes, thanks village a bit good update, yeah all

(17:13):
as well.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Positive update. Hey, and we're back and we are back. Hi.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
We announced a tour man we really to Australia.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
I know, it's so weird that that was so long
ago and we're just scheering up for it in this episode.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
It's a very like I know we've said this and
kind of like jumbled our way through it a bunch
of times, but it is that time is a flat
circle feeling where you're just kind of like it does
not feel like ten years. And then it also feels
like fifty years. And when you think I think back
about Australia, it feels like that was twenty five years ago,
like it was such an amazing memory and experience and like, yeah,

(17:57):
so great, but also so much as happy and it's
just so weird.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, isn't it crazy to think about how old those
children who we were, like, you should not be listening
to the podcast when you're nine.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
How old they are now? Right, they're in college or
yeah to it close to college.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
They're like super partying seniors.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, and that's the age when I hear someone say
they have like a teenage daughter and she's rebelling or whatever,
I always want to be like, give her our book
or let her listen to the podcast, but not nine
year olds.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Nine just feels a little bit like let them have
a little more of the innocent ears before they have
to deal with this shit, if possible.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, it's hard enough as an adult to fucking to
like understand or to try to wrap your head around
true crime. I know, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Also, this was the episode where we got corrected, like
one of the first in my memory, one of the
first kind of big important moments in the actual conversation,
not just you and I talking, but then getting feedback
and engaging with it from the coastal Horizon Center and
that whole discussion, which I think unknowingly the way we

(19:11):
engaged with that and handled it is the reason we did.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Well with this podcast.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
And basically it's like, of course we did something wrong.
We don't know what we're doing. We're just talking about stuff.
And this idea of like pointing out a thing that's
really important in narrative setting for the way people look
at these problems in society is so important, and you know,
it was like you don't want anyone to think you

(19:37):
have bad intentions. But then it's like you don't have
to sit in that. You can walk past that to
like apology and correction.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
And then better are moving forward.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah right, Yeah, I do really like that aspect of
this podcast or us, I guess as not being like
our antiquated way is the right way and we will
fight it to the fucking death, Like that's not true.
We're always all learning and growing or we should be. Yeah,
hopefully that's how you, like, you know, live a better life,

(20:08):
I think, And so I'm glad we did that. I'm
glad that they called us out on it because it's
so true. It's like, yeah, we're bending over backwards to
like keep ourselves safe and that.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Isn't the problem. Like we're not the problem.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, but completely. And I think there's the thing too
of like the tone of like cover your drinks. It
was like in our desperation to feel like it was
our job to warn people totally that's the line. And
then it's like, yeah, don't warn them so much that
it's always their fault, their responsibility on page.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Oh you didn't cover your drink what like, then it's
somehow you're at fault for what happened, which is so
not the case. And you know, that's a really great
example that just one person listening here's that and internalizes
something that happened to them that they are not responsible
for at all.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Right, it's pretty caretible.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Well then we go from that to an elvis health scare,
which is just like he was so cold, that old cat.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
He wasn't that old yet, He wasn't old enough yet.
I remember saying to him, dude, just get me to sixteen.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
How old I thought he was in his teens.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
He probably, Yeah, I guess it was like I don't know,
I think it was like eleven or twelve then, oh
so to me, that's not that old.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
But no, I Dottie, poor little sweet Dotty just like
fucking came in with influenza the Black Death and made
everyone finently ill.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Like no wonder. Mimi fucking hates her now. She's like, bitch,
you almost killed me. But Dotty's made up for it
by being the sweetest fucking cat on the planet.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, she's very sweet. Also, I think Mimi would have
had a problem no matter what. She's just using the
flu as an excuse.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, remember like if she had killed Elvis, Like, could
I have kept Dottie?

Speaker 2 (21:55):
I mean, it's pretty it's heavy to say she killed him.
It's like it's the way it all arms. And I'm
totally kidding, like never you're kind of saying in the
uh it flowers in the attic way of would you
have been evil to that cat because you would always
secretly somehow blame her.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, you know, my friend said to me recently, because
Mimi's getting older, she's having health problems, and we were
like presented with this really complicated way that she could
be helped. And I was like, I don't She's so fragile.
I don't think she could deal with it. I don't
think she should like go through it. And then my
friend goes, you'd have done it for Elvis?

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Oh, like, how dare you?

Speaker 1 (22:36):
And then she goes, however, wait what did she say?
She said, Oh, you would have pet cemeteried Elvis. So
it's not really the same thing.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
I mean, there's nothing like your first pet. It's just
a whole different Yeah, it's a whole different thing.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
But yeah, and I'm not not getting her taken care of.
I promise you this.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I'm doing everything I can for I feel like Mimi
is just the female Elvis, and Mimi's been in my
started reading the book when Elvis and Mimi were like
neck and neck. It was just like then he it
was like suddenly he was at peril and it felt
like Mimi, although in a bad mood, wasn't we weren't
going to lose her.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Of course not. But he'd always been number one.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, he really had, you know, I mean, look, it's
your firstborn son.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
Awesome. Yeah, you know what I mean. Not that I
would do anything for MEMI. But that's true, I would
fucking pet Semetery Elvis.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
It's very brave of you to keep friends around her,
going to be that honest with you.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
She can't hear anything anymore. So it's okay.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
I mean that's the thing, old pets. God, we can
talk about it forever.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
All right. Oh this story that I did this episode
is just a classic and it's so confusing. The collar
bomb heist remember, Oh yes, yes, yes, that's such a
like all over the place story. I'm excited to hear
myself cover it.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Okay, well, let's do it right now. Let's get into
Georgia's story about the collar bomb heist.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Uh okay, so I go first, I just forgot all right,
this is the story of the collar bomb heist.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Okay, awesome. You don't know what I don't even really
know what you just said.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Okay, it's the story of the caller so a collar
bomb meaning like a caller around her neck collar bomb?

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Is this a woman and her daughter? No? Okay, heist?

Speaker 1 (24:32):
And I just want to up top say that there
is an article called but in Wired by A Rich
Shapiro that has a really good overview everything happened so
I used a lot of his information and I just
wanted to give him props for that, and it happened.
He wrote it in twenty ten, so there's a little
bit of updates since then. But so we're in Erie, Pennsylvania.

(24:53):
I looked up on my favorite murder email to see
if anyone had talked about it, and it's from their town,
and a girl named Jessica A said, the winters are terrible,
and the summers are filled with water sports on the
lake and lots and lots of drinking. In fact, you
will find either a church or a bar at every
corner well, which I think describes as town really well
all right. August twenty eighth, two thousand and three, at

(25:16):
two twenty eight pm, a forty six year old local
man named Brian Wells walks into a PNC bank in
Eerie and passes the teller a note. The note says,
gather employees with your access with access codes to the vault,
and work fast to fill this bag with twenty five
thousand dollars. You only have fifteen minutes. Then he lifts

(25:38):
his shirt to show the teller a handcuff like collar
attached to his neck, and according to the note.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's a bomb. Oh fuck.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
The bomb's like a DIY homemade device. It's got a
metal collar attached around Wells's neck like a handcuff, and
they are two There are keyholes and a combination lock,
as well as baking timers and two six inch pipe bombs.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Oh baking timer, yeah, you mean like the white ones
that you turn that your mom's like, you have five
minutes sitting at chair. I love that.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
It's never used for banking. It's for fucking kinnished baking.
It's for punishing your children, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Or just being like, oh I have to do something
in ten Yeah, no, good timer. Nobody bakes that is okay.
How disturbing as you're You're that teller stayed up really
late the night before, drinking wine with your friends. You
roll in, You're like, I'm going to power through this day. Yeah,
and they'll be fine. Yeah, because I'm going to go
out drinking with my friends again.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
And a guy walks up I imagine sweating profusely.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
And like if a guy walks up to you in
your tailer and passes you a note, you're like, fuck,
it's not.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Going to say like, hey, how are you I lost
my voice? I'm Elvis.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
I'm here too with throw some cookies and no, no, no,
it's all bad.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Always bad with a note, Yeah, always bad. With a
guy that has to.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Pull up his shirt to prove a point, and he's like,
clearly there's something bulging in his shirt collar and.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
He has he has a shirt on his neck is
really thick.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, it looks I bet it would look like he
has like a trake, trachy trake, tcky out of me,
tricky out of me kind of.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
It kind of looked like that. And he has like
two shirts on and the shirt over it and it
says the shirt says, guess it's like a guest brand shirt. No,
it's just like it's the are you being sarcastic?

Speaker 1 (27:21):
I fucking swear to God, I fucking swear, stop hypothesizing,
and you tell the no please.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
That's the show.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Just the visual of like that, but like the Jerry
rigged baking timer. And then but there was also a
couple of magnetic letters from his refrigerator.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
And I mean, you know what I mean, out of
hype cleaner and.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Some old gum stack to the Yes, I don't know
who the victim is I don't know who's guilty, and
I'm saying things like that.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Well it's okay, because here we go.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Okay, So the teller is only able to give Brian
eighty seven hundred dollars because there isn't a way to
get into the vault at that time, like there wasn't
enough people there. So the baking timer goes off, and
then you suddenly smoke cookies and helps second.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
In line, Hey, you've made those?

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Are mine?

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Pulls a cookie out of his neck handcuff, yeah, and
says thanks for doing business. But when he does do
and I'm not fucking kidding, he takes the money and
leaves and he grabs a dumb, dumb lollipop on his
way out.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
Oh it's in his mouth. Okay.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
So he's not as stressed as maybe that's what you
would think, okay, Or he's really stressed and he needs
something to occupy him.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
I relate doubtful though.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Well, I just feel like, if you think you're about
to blow up, yeah, and look, I love candy, I
don't think it would be.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
You're not like I'm gonna blow I'm gonna go oh dum.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Dums, Oh my god, I yes, you know, when you
get these for Halloween, you get like ten of them
at the time.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
He stuff them all in your mouth at once, because
then it's like a real lollipop.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
I would just eat it fast and then use the
stick as a cigarette.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, just stand around fake smoking. Looks how good I
look smoking?

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Guys? All right? Maybe that I needed a cigarette. You
knew that was the closest. That's what it is.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
And he was like, I probably can't smoke around a bomb.
Those things probably don't go hand in hand. There might
be gasoline in this, definitely. I don't know how bombs
are made. You pour gasoline on them?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
About fifteen minutes after he walks out, state troopers spot
Brian Wells it's his name, standing outside of his Guess
what kind of car he has?

Speaker 3 (29:20):
You get this right up? A barf? Is it a
Laman's No, it's that I don't know. It's like some
kind of pseudo anti car. No, it's a Geo Metro.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh for those second only to the Ugo. Yeah, bad cars.
It's for you young kids.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
It's just it's just like the first hatchback, and those
aren't cool.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's like a Fiat that gave up on itself.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
It's like an eighties hatchback. But this is two thousand
and three.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
So wait, he had a Geo Metro in two thousand
and three. Yeah, maybe he was an antique shitty car.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Collect you know what he actually was? What a pizza
delivery man? Oh? Yeah, okay, so you can see a
pizza deliver man having that car. Yeah, but the tires
have absolutely no tread on them once. Yeah, they're like
all what's the ones in the back? Oh, like the replacement?

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, the.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Four spars on a geometro. I'm sorry, we're making fun
of this guy, but it'll be okay, and you'll find
out why. Okay, it's not.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Well, we'll find out why at the end actually gets
really fucking bad. Yeah, I bet it gets bad, and
it gets really bad.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Okay. So they apprehend him. They cut his hands behind
his back.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
And then Brian says to them that while out on
a pizza delivery, he had been attacked by a group
of black men. Because that's everyone's excuse, who claim who
chained the bomb around his neck at gunpoint and forced
him to rob the bank.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yep, that's how it's done. He says, it's gonna go off.
I'm not lying. He's like desperate at this point, it's
gonna go off. I'm not fucking lying.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
And then I just say one thing, yes always I
my first agent in this business. It was a who
is a mastermind and a genius. One of the first
pieces of advice she ever gave me was whether whatever
people explicitly state to you for without.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
You asking them is a lie? Just immediately reverse it
in your head of like saying.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Like if I went to a meeting at a management
place and they were like, look, we don't just take
whoever and like throw it all against the wall and
see what happens, It's like, oh, you just take whoever throw? Yeah?
Is that kind of thing where you just have to
kind of why would you proclaim this to me if
it were true?

Speaker 1 (31:27):
And do you ask you yeah exactly, or say I'm
not lying, yes means I'm lying.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Why would you need to tell people that if you
have a live bomb on your body or that just
happened to you.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
I feel like probably sociopaths say I'm not lying a
lot because they don't expect people to believe.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
They don't expect people.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
To be smart enough to be like I know that
that's a line that people say to get them like,
and they just don't think anyone's smart.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I would think that they would be the kind of
people who wouldn't say I'm not lying. Is almost just
like a try and they try it or they know
they're all out. Yeah, that they're just like, I'm not nervous.
Therefore you're never gonna ask me a question in the first.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Place, right, And if you ask me, I'm gonna tell yeah, Okay,
you're gonna believe me, all right, I'm not lying. So
the officers call the bomb squad and they take their
positions behind their cars. Their guns are drawn, and they
leave Brian sitting in the middle of the street, cross leged,
handcuffs behind his back, with his bomb around his neck.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
And he's in the middle of the road, just sitting there. Okay,
there's a video all this, and okay, I'll tell you
a second.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
For twenty five minutes, while news cruise crew news people
are filming there, they keeps laying in the street. He's
sitting cross legged in the street, kind of like slumped
in the street.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
He's kind of fidgeting and stuff. So they're sitting there
for twenty five minutes. Then out of nowhere, the device
starts to beep, beep, beep, and you see him. It's
all on video.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
You see him kind of look down and start to
struggle like he's trying to get away from the collar,
and then it fucking goes off.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
No, yeah, and the video there is video.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
On this, and they don't warn you that they're about
to show it. And so I saw it and I
got really and having to look this up and look
at video and news stuff. I just kept having to
turn my head away because it's so awful and it's
of guys. So you know, this guy dies and you
see this bomb go off, and people really watching it
live and see this happen.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Fuck, I'm so surprised.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, okay, he looked surprised too that it was even
going off, meaning I don't think he thought it was real.
And it detonates, loud explosion, blowing into his face. He
falls back onto the ground. He does almost instantly. I
believe the farm had ripped a huge hole in his chest.
Three minutes later, bomb squad arrives. Oh no, I know,

(33:56):
so they when later the police search his car and
they find handwritten notes that were addressed to the bomb hostage,
and they say that one of them says, there's only
one way you can survive, and that is to cooperate completely.
This powerful booby trapped bomb can be removed only by
following our instructions.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Act now, think later, or you will die. Sorry, handwritten
notes to this guy. Yeah, so it's basically their handwritten
notes to the got to Brian.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
I thought that meant his handwritten note. Yeah, someone else
had written these notes to him. They were in his car,
so the police had caught him. It was almost like
a scavenger hunt. But he had to rob the bank
then go to these certain places to get the keys,
give them the money, that sort of thing, right, So,
but police had caught him in the middle of the
scavenger hunt, so they tried to finish the scavenger hunt

(34:46):
themselves and find the notes, but someone had removed the
remaining notes after Brian had been killed. So they found
the places where they were supposed to be, but there
wasn't anything else there.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
And sorry, was that like the video you watched or
whatever was that shown live on the news.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
It had to have been because people were talking about
having watched it, Yeah, sitting there with their kids, so probably,
And it was at like three o'clock something, so there
must have been kids after school watching that one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
How traumatized are those children? It's the worst. I watched
it and I was I'm a little fucked up from it.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
No, you can't, like, yeah, is that kind of shit?
You have to be so careful and paired for yeah,
all right.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
They traced Brian's last pizza delivery on the day of
his death, which is when he said he got attacked.
They found that his last order was to be delivered
on the outskirts of the city at at a location
to ended up being a TV transmission tower. What the
address was, and they could tell by the scuff marks
and the dirt that that's where the.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Collar had been attached.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
But he was supposed to be off right before that
call came into order the pizzas, which was kind of mysterious,
all right. Then cut to September twentieth, less than a
month after the bomb killed Brian. Fifty nine year old
Bill Rothstein, who was a handyman and lifelong resident in
the area, calls nine one one. He gave the operator

(36:05):
his address and told him that there was a frozen
body in his garage freezer. What yeah, He told him
that the story history was that in mid August, his
ex girlfriend, Marjorie diial Armstrong called him and told him
she had shot her living boyfriend James Rodin in the
back with a Remington twelve gage shotgun in a dispute
over money, and then she asked him to help her

(36:27):
clean up and move the body, which he agreed to,
and so the body had been in his freezer for
five weeks. He also melted down the gun and scattered
the pieces around the county.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
Wow, yeah, thorough, thorough. How do you melt down a gun?
You don't even fucking know power tools?

Speaker 1 (36:44):
I think he was a handymailer. Yeah, he's a handyman,
so he probably knows a lot.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
About He had some fucking welding things, probably put some
like I don't know, you know, there's some powder you
can probably put on something to make it flammable. Oh.
I think I've seen things where you a diet coke
on a piece of meat. Oh, why do we stop it?
I got so excited? Isn't that a thing?

Speaker 2 (37:07):
It is but I'm sure it doesn't melt guns. I'm
almost positive.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Let's try it.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Let's see, Steven, do they even get your guy out?

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Just shoots both of us. Not be hilarious. They told
me I have it on tape.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
It's such a weird ending to that podcast because everyone
likes Steven now, but I'm wondering he really didn't like
those girls?

Speaker 3 (37:26):
What is it just fictional? The whole podcast. Now we
have to go back and listen again, and we have
to write down all the time. So we yelled at
Stephen slowly building rage and Steve and you can hear
him breathing in the background, harder and harder every week.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Meanwhile, he has both hands over his face, laughing like
a little bright red little Japanese girl, just giggling, giggling.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Stephen.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Okay, So he tells them he just couldn't go with
the final plan, which was to grind the body up,
so he called nine one one, and he was afraid
of what she might do to him. So he says
he was so distraught that he had even considered killing
himself rather than turning himself in, and he had written
a suicide note in which he said, who the body
was in the freezer when he didn't kill him. It says,
nor participate in the death. And then the note ended

(38:15):
with this has nothing to do with the Wells case.
Oh no, no reason says that in the note because
he lived behind the TV transmission spot.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Uh oh yeah, okay, Now look at my theory.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
How it's been completely reversed right in my face, which
is what now this it's the first guy going the
victim saying I'm not lying in my theories.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
That's because he's lying.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Well, then this guy saying this has nothing to do
with it out of nowhere, like he hadn't even been
questioned about it.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah, don't bring it up.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
No, but btw no, So obviously what my research reveals
is that there's no hard and fast rule right statements
or is there?

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Or we are not done yet?

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Oh answers, I'll over that place. They made a move
that movie thirty Minutes or less. Yes, that came out
like twenty eleven. My friend Ruben Fleisher directed that.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Oh nice.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Well, they think it's like loosely based on this, so
they'll be twists and turns. Oh wow, s't worry. I
haven't seen it, so I don't really know. But all right,
So here's a little bit about Marjorie, the woman who
killed her boyfriend so in She's fucking in nineteen eighty four,
she's thirty five. She's charged with murdering her then boyfriend,
Robert Thomas. Rob Thomas, isn't he from Matchbox twenty? Yeah,

(39:36):
I just She claims she shot him six times in
self defense. Says you know how you shoot someone six
times in self defense?

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yes, well, just to really finish it off, just to
kill you out of it's very OCDC.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
You want to finish all the bullets right in the gun. Right. Sorry.
This is the same woman who had the body in
the freezer. Yeah, this is the body of the freezer woman.
This is a different relationship, yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Years before okay, a jury it quits her, and then
four years later her husband and Richard Armstrong dies up.
This cerebral cerebral hemorrhage. Those two words together can cerebral hemorrhage.
And but he when he got to the hospital he
had had a head injury. But the death is still
ruled accidental and never followed up with by the corner

(40:20):
which head injuries and cerebral hemorrhaging don't go.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
That's not a thing they do. They don't go together.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
No. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Cerebral hemorrhaging means your brain is bleeding, which means someone
hit you really fucking hard on the head or something.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Doesn't.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Hemorrhaging just happen though too, like the way when people
have a stroke or something like that.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Oh I do I feel Look, look, look, and listen.
Are going to claim we're right.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
My My assumption is as a doctor, is no, I
just think hemorrhaging. Hemorrhaging can happen in any kind of
a way. It's not specific to just like an annuals
and aneurysm is when you're like a vessel in.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Her brain explodes and then usually you die. Okay, so yeah,
I'm merging. That sounds right.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Okay, did we please, doctors, please tell us how to
do this podcast?

Speaker 3 (41:10):
The best way to let us know about something is
to screaming us on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I just want everyone to know. That's the only time
we listen. That's right, It is screaming onto our hearts. Umm,
we're doctors. Let's see U death is ruled accidental. So
Marjorie is like extremely smart, but she suffers from bipolar disorder,
and she's found to be paranoid and narcissistic. In nineteen

(41:34):
eighty four, they found four hundred pounds of butter and
more than seven hundred pounds of cheese rotting inside her house.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
Sorry, this is from the Wired article.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Can I repeat this? Four hundred so I think she
was a hoarder. So four hundred pounds of butter?

Speaker 3 (41:48):
How much is that so much? Well, a pound of
butter is the four cubes.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Okay, that's a pound of butter. So she had four
hundred of those and seven hundred pounds.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Of cheese to dream come trip, I mean kind of cheese.
If we're talking about fucking craft singles.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Lvida, if she hadn't stored somewhere, it's velvida because you can.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
You can leave that like in a warm room for
two years and nothing will happen. It's plastic. Could I
tell you it? Vince made me for dinner last night
because I was like, oh, I've brought to tell you
this too. Damn it to go?

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Can I get on a gross food tangent reliase? Okay,
So last night Vince Vince brought home. He did the
thing of I've been craving this thing from childhood, and
I was like playing along, like I'll try it with you, baby.
So he made me a baloney and American cheese sandwich
on white bread.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Yeah it's mustard. I used to have them every single day.
It was great. We never had like we never got
to have any of that good stuff. Yeah, so I
had so. Yeah. Sometimes he'll fry up the balonnie. Wow,
I know. But what happened And this is just I'm
explaining who vinces?

Speaker 1 (42:46):
On like Saturday, I picked him up after his thing
and we were both hungry, and I was like, where
should we go? And I always am like, no, I
don't want to go there, and like we go where
I want to go? But he was like he was
like this place, this place or this place, and I
was like, okay, you pick which. I was being nice,
like I'm just trying to not be a fucking asshole anymore.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
That's good YU that effort. Yeah. So we went to
the Olive Garden for brunch on Saturday. How do you
feel about that?

Speaker 2 (43:16):
All I see is like a bunch of Italian spices
mixed into shit that I don't want there.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
That's the first thing I think of. You are one
hundred percent correct. He ordered. They had a thing called
an Italian margarita. He ordered it. The guy at the
bar was just like such a.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Sassy, funny person, and he put it in front of
the He put a margarita in front of him and
then he put down a little like shot glass of
ammaretto and he goes, that's what makes it Italian.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
I was just like, oh, I love you. It was
so great. But they have a nice little soup and
salad deal.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Anyways, the almost broadsticks, right, yeah, come on, the salad's
actually good. On the way out, a girl stops me
and she goes, don't I know you? And I did
the oh, searching for my brain and she goes, just kidding.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
I'm a huge fed So she was a waitress there,
and she was just like, really cool, Great, that's it. Okay.
I got recognized at the Olive Garden because hell yeah,
the Olive Garden. Hell yes, because when you're there, you're family.
I was family. Nice. So thanks, Wait, don't I recognize
you're my aunt? Yeah? Oh hi, Oh my god, I

(44:20):
nice to see you. Okay, Carol?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Oh all right, seven hundred pounds of cheese rotting inside her.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
House okay, sorry, yes, because you can't even get that
from a store. That's all.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
You can go to an Indivans or whatever your local
chain is called and be like, that's all the butter
that they have.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
For the month, essentially, and they yeah, what she doing?
Do you know how she got it? No? Okay, nothing
about it. It's rotting? Okay.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Can you imagine the smell like butter? Even rot It
does like it turns, but it takes a long time.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Like you can leave it on on the counter and
it won't go bad for a while. I mean, we
always refrigerate our butter, which I hate cold butter. You
can put it on a plate as long as it's
covered on the counter. What are we talking about?

Speaker 3 (45:04):
I don't fucking know. Someone is dead, someone is ohad,
people are okay? All right?

Speaker 1 (45:11):
So I wrote so capital because I think I knew
we were going to go on the standard, So back
to okay. In fact, when preparing to be tried and
the shooting death of her first x, psychiatrists deemed her
mentally incompetent seven times before they finally ruled she was
allowed to be on betried, which I feel like seven
times means you are not ever going to be mentally

(45:32):
and that's such a hard thing to do because everyone's like.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
I'm mentally ill, that's why I killed trying to get
out of it. Yeah, and they're like bullshit, but sorry.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
They kept on saying she was mentally incompetent and couldn't
stand trial, and then they finally were like, wait, no,
on the eighth time, she is.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
She's better know Oh no, but yeah, that's ridiculous, got it, so,
I wrote?

Speaker 2 (45:52):
So.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
On September twenty one of two thousand and three, Marjorie
deil Armstrong is arrested for the murder of her most
recent ex, the freezer guy, James Rodenk. She pleads guilty
but mentally ill, but she's still sentenced to seven to
twenty years in state prison for that murder. Three months
after she goes to prison in April Federal of two
thousand and five.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
So I might have the dates wrong.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Federal agents investigating the collar bomb mystery, they're still like,
what the fuck happened? The handwriting analysis of the fucking
notes are baffled. They just don't understand why this scavenger
hunt was part of It doesn't make any sense to them.
They're called They are called from the state police officer
who has just met with Marjorie in prison. She tells

(46:36):
them that the murder of her most recent ex boyfriend
actually had nothing to do with money, but instead was
part of the collar bomb plot, so they didn't even know.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
She was involved at this point. She just came forward
with them. Yeah, okay, she says. She tells me, She's like,
can I just exchange that piece of information for a
stick of butter? I just want to put it under
my pillow. They only have margarine here. It's driving me interesting.
I need some and butter.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Well, what she actually wants besides just butter, is a
transfer from the state pen where she's into a minimum
security spot much closer to Eerie.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
And if they do that, she'll tell them everything she knows.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
So she begins by telling them that she was not
of course, I'm not involved in any way in the plot,
but she admits that she knew about it and that
she supplied the kitchen timers, so she's the baker or
the punisher of children.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
When they were trying to fingerprint that kitchen timer, they
were just like, there's no fingerprints, but it is coated
in buttery, like so much.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Butter all over it. We need to find the butter culprit,
the butter bomber. Butter bomber, it's even better, butter Butter.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
She tells them that the actual mastermind Behold and the
whole plot was Bill Rothstein, the dude who lived behind
the TV tower.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Who turned her in for a murder.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
But Bill Rostein had died of lymphoma about a year earlier,
in July two thousand and four, so they can't fucking
question him. She also tells the FEDS that Brian Williams
wasn't just the victim, but had been in on the
planning from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
The guy that actually blew up in the bomb. Yeah, okay,
twist's turns so yeah, keep So he did what he said.
I'm not lying, he was lying. You were right, Oh
thank god, I was like, hold up that theory was
white right twice? Yes? Nice? Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
So, according to Marjorie, Brian Wells, the victim had agreed
to rob the bank wearing what he thought was a
fake collar bomb. The scavenger hunt, he was told, was
simply a ruse to fool the cops. If he got caught,
he could say like, well, look at these instructions is
evidence that he was only following orders. But at some
point Brian Wells and he don't hear this phrase very

(48:45):
often is double cross. Yes, the fake bomb is switched
out to be a real one, which he didn't know
until it was strapped to his neck.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
They held him down at gunpoint.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Because when he got to the TV station with the pizzas,
he realized it was real and tried.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
To run and they grabbed him and held him down
to cup point.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Okay, wait, so did he not know is it Marjorie? Yeah,
Marjorie and the guy that died of rosting, he didn't
know them.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Before he knew them, they had all planned this thing
and agreeing that it was going to be a fake bomb.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
So he drove there as if it's like I'm delivering
pizzas to this place, right.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
The whole thing is him being tricked. He was in
on that thinking it'd be a fake bomb. Got it.
They are like, it's a real bomb. Get over here.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
It all falls together because then that fucking dumb dumb's
part makes perfect sense, right, Okay?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
And I think even when thinking, when thinking about the
dumb dumb, the way he panicked when the beefing went off.
Is he didn't even know that it was fake until
the beeping went off. That's what I think, Yes, because
you mean that it was real. Yeah, because even him
saying I'm not lying, he's lying. He thinks it's not real,
and I think they're telling him this. I don't know
why she's telling him this, but I don't believe that.

(49:54):
So yeah, okay, So they strap it to it and
his nex gunpoint, the FBI had already concluded they had
checked out the bomb and that it was rigged, so
at any attempt to remove it at all, I would
have set it off.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
So he was destined. He was going to die no
matter what.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Then, in late two thousand and five, a few months
after Marjorie first talked to the FEDS, a witness comes
forward and says that an ex television repairman turned crack
dealer named Kenneth Barnes was also involved. Barnes was already
in jail on unrelated drug charges, so when threatened with
more time behind.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Bars, he agrees to a deal. He would give the
full account blah blah blah, reduce sentence.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
He confirms that Marjorie was he says, which is what
other people were coming forward and saying. Marjorie was the
mastermind behind the collar bomb plot. He claimed she needed
the cash so she could pay him to kill her
father for inheritance money. Jesus Christ, I know in Airy Pennsylvania.
She's just she's like a black widow.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
So he sentenced Barnes A sentenced to forty five years
behind bars, but he agrees to testify against Marge. He
also explains Brian Well's reasoning why he even got in
on the plot for money. He needed the money because
he had developed a relationship with a sex worker and
he had devised a scheme where he was like, I'm
going to sell crack because I need the money to

(51:15):
be with her. I think he was like in love
with her, but he had fallen into debt with a
crack dealer. It's for love, which is like so sweet.
And in one of the articles it's like he was
a drug dealer, and it's like, well, he wasn't when
you call him a drug dealer, or you're not, you know,
explaining the intricacies, which.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Sounds like a fucking movie.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Look, if you're selling crack to people, you're a drug dealer.
It doesn't matter what you're motives are. You're correct, you
can be a cold hearted snake, or you can be
you are correct, you could be the most nicest, romantic
person if you're selling drugs. Because also it's not like
he's selling pots, so he's getting sixty bucks a hit.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
He's like probably making fucking bank. And these people who
are crack addicts are ruining your lives, so he's helping
them ruin their lives. Yes, exactly, you are eating.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
And then also on top of that, so that he
can fuck a lady who probably doesn't give a shit
one way or the other about him, right, otherwise she
wouldn't be charging him. Probably, one would like to think
that it would go into a Julia Roberts movie kind
of direction, right where she then does actually kiss him
on the mouth.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Oh my god, why am I being romantic about that? Well,
you probably got involved in your reading. I'm just counterpointing.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
I just want to know Brian wellsmore like I feel
he probably wasn't the sharpest needle in the tack.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
I knew I wasn't going to get that right, so
I just kept going with it, you know what I mean?
That was like a straight up Yogi barrow style quote.
I took all holding someone else dumbs like mixing metaphors.
Oh man, so yeah, I don't know. To me, he's
the he's the he lost the most. He's not some mastermind.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
He's not like, yeah, he got duped pretty hard for
a reason that you know he didn't understand.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
Was okay, da da da da da.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
He also testified that Marjorie's X, whose body was the
freezer body, was also in on the crime. The reason
he had been killed was because he threatened to tell
the feds, not because of money.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Oh so that's why his freezer body happened. Okay.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
When Marjorie took the stand around trial, she's fucking ranting
and raving. She's like she's bananas. She's butter crazy. She's
butter crazy. She claims to have never met Brian Wills
and his Brian Wells, the victim, even though he testified
that she had even measured his neck for the collar bomb.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Oh, the jury didn't believe her. She's voted guilty of
arm voted guilty of armed robbery. I wrote that. I
wrote it voted guilty, and I'm like, I'll figure that out.
Once you're there. So I just read it off the vapor.
I mean, technically, are right?

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Vote they voted A get voted guilty guilty of arm
bank robbery, conspiracy, using a destructive dedyce in.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
A crime of violence.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
She died on April of this year, actually as eighty
six years old of natural causes.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Yeah, so she died in twenty seventeen in April.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Whoa, Yeah, when we were just hanging out thinking anything
was whatever. And then she's dying, all right, last part
and this is also from Wired. Retired FBI criminal investigators
who ignore the fucking coolest people in the world. I
want to have a drink with him, Jim Fisher. This
guy thinks that there's no way that Marjorie planned the
collar bomb heist. He based on the FBI's suspect profile,

(54:23):
which they had before anyone got in trouble for this.
He thinks Bill Rothstein was the mastermind. He was a
handyman with the skills to create a homemade bomb. And
because it wasn't about money, he thinks he had never
accomplished much in his life. He wanted to show how
brilliant he was by quote executing a crime that would
grab headlines across the globe and baffle authorities for years.

(54:46):
He recruited conspirators he knew he could control and kept
crucial details of the plot from them, a tactic designed
to further complicate the investigation. Wow, so he thinks he
was just fucking with his head, Like, I kind of
reminded me of the guy from S Town that they
I still haven't listened to, well, people who lived listened
to the s Town that this guy was like this
brilliant dude.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of that. In the end,
says Jim Fisher, the son of a bitch ended up winning.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Huh, well not so much because I'd never heard of
this case before. Yeah, but why we are talking about
it now?

Speaker 1 (55:20):
He won by dying a free man, Yes, that's true,
and baffling the shit And they still don't really understand
how and what happened.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Which isn't a victory because that just means you went crazy,
You victimized a bunch of people, and it doesn't make
sense why you did it. Yeah, that's not like, no
your genius credit. No, I think that's fucked up.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
What he specifically wanted, which again is not a genius move.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
It's like, for me, like the kitchen timer right there,
ruves that he's not a genius. Get one of those
LED digital readout timers, or get the fuck out of town.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Well, I think what he wanted to prove is he
could fucking make a bomb in his whatever garage out
of anything.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
You know, those people who like to take things apart
and put them back together just to see how they work,
instead of reading a fucking book and just chilling out
take a nap. Yeah, I guess that's true. Well that
was fascinating. Yeah, I'd say, look at the picture of
him sitting in the middle of the road. Go nowhere
near the video of him not being blown up.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
I want you to see the picture kind of Stephen,
can you pull that up just to see It's just
this like clear afternoon news story of him sitting there.
They're not too close, I can totally picture it. He
looks like a mannequin sitting there. Oh, it's just like
this still body, not dead I'm talking about when he's He.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Was just waiting.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
So was that the whole bomb squad thing? They were
just waiting for the bomb squad to show up.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
That's what he was just sitting on the curb and
they were calling the bomb squad, but also they weren't
sure if he was even in on it, so they
have their guns drawn on him.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah, that one. Go look up the picture. It's like
it's like a bummer.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Obviously, it looks like when someone gets stopped at the
traffic thing and then they go to arrest him.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, it looks like that, like he's an unruly drunk driver. Yeah,
what's that? Do you know what his shirt says or
what says guests? Oh, that's the guest thing.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah, and they think that's part of it, is like
Bill Rothstein put a shirt on him that says.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Guess that's fucked up. I know. Wow, that's a good one.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
It's so weird because I saw this like it was
from two thousand and three. I think I saw maybe
a City Confidential or a twenty twenty, like pretty immediately
after it happened, so no one still knew what was
going on, and it just stuck with me. And it
was one of those ones where I was like, everyone
knows this one, so I'm not going to do it,
And then I was like maybe they don't, So.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
I mean the one I thought it was was.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
There's an I survived about a woman who gets home invaded.
They it's her and her daughter, right, and they put
a bomb on her and make her go rob a
bank and she and they're like, if you say anything,
it's the same exact thing. But she really was, you know,
she was a victim and survived it. They ended up
getting off her. Yeah, oh good, Yeah, phew, Okay, we're back.

(58:05):
Are there any updates on this one?

Speaker 3 (58:07):
I have some updates.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
So in Netflix four part docuseries called Evil Genius, the
true story of America's most diabolical bank heist, Jessica Hoopsick,
a woman who claimed to be Brian Wells's friend, confessed
that she set Wells up to participate in the crime
by providing his name and delivery schedule to one of
the conspirators in exchange for money and drugs.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
So, I mean, that's just huge.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Investigators say Hoopsick was uncooperative after the deadly heist in
two thousand and three. They had long suspected her involvement,
but didn't have enough evidence to build a case against her.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
So that's pretty interesting and I side job basically, Yeah,
it makes a lot more sense now because the story
was just so convoluted.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
It was crazy. It was like, it was so shocking
and insane.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
And on video, the video of him sitting in the
middle of the intersection so bad.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
That's so fucking traumatizing. Jesus, it's horrible. Speaking of traumatizing,
we got another New Year story. Yeah, this one is
got a All right, let's listen to Karen's story about
the shoe fetish slayer.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
Okay, my turn, let's do it. I don't know what
the voice is this story is.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
I've been trying to do it for a really long time,
but because I've been reading an Anne Rule book about
this serial killer. And uh, but then I think Frank
eight the back half of the book. It turned into
a thing where than I had I was trying to
find the book again and whatever.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
I think we should make it for new listeners. Frank
is her dog. It's not her boyfriend. That I have
a really nervous boyfriend named Frank. He doesn't like when
I learned thing does like when I leave the house.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
So but but the first chapter of this book is
one of the most hook you in and you can't
stop reading chapters.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
It's Anne Rules I been meaning to read a new
one by her movie. Yeah it's this is a great one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I had bought one at the airport on the last
tour that was it was a bunch of different stories
kind of all put together. But I realized that, like,
that's a little bit too depressing because it's just almost
like the same thing over and I like her thoughts
on it and stuff. Yeah, you I I think I
enjoy like the full thing more. But the cool thing
about Anne Rule is that she just goes so far

(01:00:36):
into the victims lives, so you get all that information.
So if anybody, if this is an interesting story you,
Anne Rule wrote a book called Lust Killer and it's
about this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
But this is the best part. So I texted Stephen yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I was like, can you please get me a chronology
of this guy so that I can get ahead on
this story.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
And so he looked up and found.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
This kindog that was put together by some people in
the Department of Psychology at Radford University in Radford, Virginia.
And those people are Mike Keith, Audrey mag Mangram. I
was gonna say Magnum, Audrey, Mangram, Kimberly masked Heather McGinn,
Ryan Miller, Kristin Pouchot, Nicole Newsom, and Vicki Tanner.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
A lot of ladies, so many ladies. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
It doesn't say if they are like students, it doesn't
say who they are in the department or whatever. But
they put together it's like an Excel spreadsheet of the
years and then the significant like moments in this guy's life.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Nice, which is a life saving for doing a show
like this. Yeah, I need that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Yeah, so many times we needed every GD week And
then instead you have to read eighteen hundred articles to
find that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Yeah, which is fine, it it's good. But then when
you have a spine like this, these guys did amazing work,
really good. It's just very great detail work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Where sometimes when you're reading a story, if you read
two articles, the second one contradicts the first.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
One, and you're like, well, did he join the army
or not? Like it's that thing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
I always am like, well, the first one said this,
so I believe it. It was just the first one
I picked to re read. It's not like I'm believing
about this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Guy Wikipedia overall all right, Okay, so it's Jerry Brudos,
the shoe fetish slayer you've seen. There's one million all
true crime shows about him, and there's a Law and
Order that's basically his story. So, Jerry Brutus is born
January thirty first, nineteen thirty nine.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Websary, what's his name? I didn't hear that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Jerry Brudos is born on January thirty first, nineteen thirty
nine in Webster, South Dakota. And it turns out he
was an accident and his mother wanted a girl, so
they lived on a farm. When he was five, they
moved to Portland, Oregon, and they basically move. It looks
like every two to five years his whole childhood and

(01:02:50):
into his adult life, which sucks. And also it doesn't
say an this anywhere at all. That My theory is
his dad was an alcoholic or somebody in the family
was an alcoholic, where they had to just keep leaving
town and starting over, right, But also they I think
he starts his dad starts out as a farmer, and
it might just be that they're trying to he's trying
to basically be a migrant farmer.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
And like go to the new place where he can
make follow the money. But every two years, it's just
so disruptive. Yeah, fucked out. So sad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Anyway, So one day he's wandering around alone at the
junk yard when he's five years old, as you do,
and he finds a pair of open totes spike heeled shoes,
and he is obsessed and immediately, yes, this is his jam.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
He puts them on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
He probably never sees women wearing that kind of thing
where he's from, maybe, like his mom probably doesn't wear
shit like that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
But he goes crazy, he plays with them, he takes
them home. His mom finds them and goes berserk on
him and is like screaming whatever and like, never touch
these again.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
You're not supposed to touch you're not supposed to like
this whatever, Which is a great way to get your
kid to be really into So yeah, hi, how we
know that. So let's take a five year old and
be like this is forbidden and then see what happens
and you don't understand why it's forbidden. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Eventually he kept finding them and like she would take
them away from Finally she burned them to symbolically for him.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
When he's six, they moved to Rivers in California and
he's in the first grade, his teacher wore high heel
shoes and kept another pair in the classroom, so he
tried to steal them one day so he could take
them home, but another kid in the class saw him
and told on him. So from a first grade this
is like a very very early age. He fails second grade.

(01:04:44):
He is diagnosed with measles, sore throats, swollen glands, laryngitis.
He has frequent headaches that actually leave him unable to
see clearly. Oh my god, So he's got some stuff
going on. So all of those illnesses that he has,
it makes me go like, were you not taken care

(01:05:05):
of very well fed?

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Well? Did you not sleep correct? You know, like why
would you just be constantly sick?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
So in nineteen forty seven, when he's eight years old,
the family moves to Grant's Pass, Oregon, and next door
there's a house, uh that has I think it's.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Three teenage girls, right, So they have a little brother, and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Jerry starts sneaking into that house with the brother to
steal these girls underwear. They first they play in the clothes,
then he like discovers the underwear and then.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
He so it goes from shoes to undergarments.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
A couple of years later, the family moves again to
Wallace Pond because Jerry's father is getting back into farming and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
His when he's going through puberty.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
His mother is disgusted by anything sexual that Jerry does.
You know, if he has a wet dream, she makes
him wash his sheets by hand. There's a lot of shaming,
a lot of like sounds like verbal abuse.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
How to create a cereal Keller? Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
So he starts to fantasize that he wants to capture
a girl and make her obey his commands and beg
for mercy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
So when he's around.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Sixteen, he steals an eighteen year old girl's underwear. Then
he decides that he wants nude pictures of her, so
he tells her that he has found out who stole
her underwear and to meet her to meet him at
her at his house. So the girl goes over to
his house and she is there, she's attacked by a

(01:06:51):
masked man who forces her to take off her clothes
and takes pictures of her, and then the man runs away,
and then the girl gets d and she goes to leave,
and she runs into Jerry and Jerry says, I was
locked in the barn this whole time.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
I just saw a guy running out of here in
a mass. The girl runs away reports the whole thing
to police. So essentially he's trying to and there was
another story but I could not find it anywhere of
him doing that and coming back in and saying that
he was his own twin brother.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Oh my god, and that really sorry. It was like
one of the first times he did this. He's really sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
He basically makes a girl, a young girl his age,
take off her clothes, takes pictures of her, leaves, changes
his clothes, combs his hair differently, comes in and goes,
I'm sorry about my brother, Jerry.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
I'm his brother. What a crazy creepy that like reeps
me out. It's so creepy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
And of course, and I think that little girl from
the story that I remember didn't report it to the police.
It's just like this weird, fucked up thing, so anyway,
I know it's it's it's all so that kind of
indicative of that, the sociopathic thing. I'm smarter than everybody, Like,
there's no way anyone's going to find out. Here's my
great plan. I'm going to play my own identical twin.

(01:08:09):
Yeah insane. Yeah, this is not full house, yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
So okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
When he's seventeen, he lures a girl into his car.
He drives her to a deserted farmhouse, beats her up
by some miracle. There's a couple that's like sight seeing
out in the country and they stop at the same
abandoned farmhouse and they find they'd like walk in on
what's happening and call the cops. So Jerry claims that

(01:08:38):
he'd also stop to help the girl. Because they find
him and her and she's tied up. He says, no,
I found her that way. I was here to help her. Please,
don't believe it. And they finally they talked him long
enough and he confesses. So he's arrested for assault and
battery and they find in his house and in his
car women's underwear pictures and photo equips man. So soon

(01:09:02):
after his arrest they send him to Oregon State Hospital,
the psychiatric ward for nine months.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
How do you think that that wasn't a fucking vaca.
Probably no, it's psychiatric hospital. Back then, what year is it,
It's nineteen sixty nine, I believe. No, No, it's vir
hose bad news.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
He starts talking to the doctors there about his sexual fantasies,
his hatred and revenge of the revenge he wants to
take against his mother and women in general. And he's
a diagnosed with schizophrenia, which was actually a common thing
that would happen back then that that wasn't actually an
accurate diagnosed exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
It's just kind of like you are you're what is
that called? I was I want to say devious, but
it's a nothing. I was going to say deviant. Des Yeah, deviant,
that's it. Devian. Okay, I was going to say that,
but then he said devious. He's a deviant. He's a deviant.
That's what I was trying to say. I've got it, Stephen.

(01:10:04):
I'd love that. You look at you like, can you
help me? Will you try? You said the only word
I was thinking. Okay, so so.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
And they also they the things that he's telling them
that he likes, they don't they don't know how to
classify me.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
That's not a thing yet, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
I mean whatever there might have been, but they're basically
like slap schizophrenty on him, and like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
Treating for that, which is probably electric shock therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
He still graduates with this high school class in nineteen
fifty seven.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Oh so this is the late fifties. It's not even
the sixties. Wow. So then he joins the army in
nineteen fifty nine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
He tells the army psychiatrist about these same obsessions, and
the psychiatrist has him discharged from the army.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
So he moves back in with his parents.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Now they live in Corvallis, organ and he has to
live in their shed. Oh, they make him live out
back in the.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
I mean he's an adult. Now, can we please fucking
treat him like a human or get an apartment? Yeah?
I mean yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
So one night he's running an errand and he sees
a young girl walking by herself, and he decides he's
going to follow her and he so he basically stalks
her or follows her home, attacks her, strangles her until
she's unconscious, and then steals her shoes, and that night

(01:11:28):
he slept.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
With the shoes. Oh my god, this is so creepy.
This is nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
Oh no, So he becomes an electronics technician. In nineteen
sixty one, when he's twenty one, he gets a job
at a radio station, and that's when he meets his
future wife, seventeen year old Darcy Metzler.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Yeah, Darcy, run Darcy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Of course, Darcy's parents don't approve of the relationship because
she's so young, and because of that, they're married within
a few months of meeting.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Like, let's solve this by marrying them. Yeah, yes, exactly. Well,
it's like, you want to get out of your parents'
house anyway. This guy comes along. Yeah, he loves underwear.
You've got to get him. So tie that guy down.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Right, literally, So they settle in sale Morgan and Jerry's
thing is he wants her to do all of her
housework in the nude so he can take pictures of
her while she's doing it. She's like, I'm sweatings, I'm swiffering.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Yeah. Yeah. And she's so young that she's completely kind
of under his She probably doesn't know what if this
is normal or not. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah, this is now married life. She's you know, like,
I guess this is what you do. Yeah, as a wife.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
And around the same time, he starts complaining that he's
getting migraines so bad that he's blacking out and that
the only thing that helps alleviate those symptoms is going
on night prowling raids to steal shoes and under where
from local women.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
Everyone who's been taking advil for your fucking migraines.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
We've got a new solution. It's a way creepier solution.
So he would keep all of those trophies. Trophies. She
was an underwear in a garage that he had built.
It was like a sub basement that his wife couldn't
enter into until she announced her arrival on an intercom.

(01:13:27):
It was he was locked down in this basement and
she'd have to be like, honey, can I bring you
some rits?

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
Okay? So you put this away real quick. Yeah. He
has it set up where it's like this is my
man cave. You're not allowed down here. So in nineteen
sixty two they have a daughter, but Jerry can't hold
a steady job.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
They move all the time. They finally settle back in Portland.
Jerry becomes an electrician. In nineteen sixty seven, they have
a son, so two kids, but his wife won't him
in the delivery room when she's having the baby, her
second baby, and he he's so hurt by this was
what this article was saying, or like it affected him

(01:14:12):
so much that's when the raping and the killing starts.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Wait, isn't that normal for back then?

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Yeah, I mean I think it's probably I'm assuming this
is his story of him being like it pissed me
out so much, you know, like that's the wife's salts.

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
I think that's so normally. I think even when my
in the seventies, when my brother was born and my
dad wasn't allowed in there, right, but this was the
wife's decision. This is what they're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Okay, Yeah, so it makes it sound like he was
allowed in for their first child and not this some
weird thing had happened. Yeah, so that's why he that's
what he says. Yeah, of course it's someone else's fault.
But also I imagine they've now been married for six
years or so. She's probably seen some weird shit, and

(01:14:56):
she's heard some weird shit, and there's a whole room
she's locked out of all the time, so she's probably
there's you know, like who knows what her state is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
She knows him well enough that he doesn't want to
go in there for the miracle of his child being born.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
He wants to go in there for something fucking creepy. Yeah,
she doesn't trust it, right, how unnerving?

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Oh my god, Like, if I see my husband's face
when I'm giving birth, I'm gonna cry.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
I will barf barf and cry, Oh, barf, cry, and
then shit on the table, which is what everyone does.
Apparently my friend Michelle Balan doesn't. No, I heard that
It's terrifying. Was terrifying? Bart okay.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
So shortly after that the childbirth, he claims that he
stalked a woman in Portland, Oregon, followed her home, waited
for her to fall asleep, broke into her house to
steal her shoes, but then when she woke up mid
robbery and catches him, he chokes her until she passes out,
rapes her, steals her shoes, and then leaves. So then

(01:15:56):
in January of nineteen sixty eight, this is the This
is the woman who Anne Rule's book starts.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
With, Oh, okay, I forgot about that part.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Yeah, so she starts with this the first murder victim okay,
and her name was Her name was Linda Slawson. She
was selling Encyclopedia's door to door in the rain in Portland,
oh no, and at nights.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
No no, no, no, no no no. This sounds like
a horror movie.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
I will completely the way this is written, it's like
she's trying to decide.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
She hasn't had any sales. She's just moved out.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
On her own, and I keep trying maybe the next one. Yeah,
she like needs the money, she has to eat, like
things are getting bad. And then there's like one last
house that has a light on, and she's like, I
just want to go home. I'll just try this one
last time.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
Back then, they aren't as scared as we are today
and weary, no, wary of There were so many door
to door salesmen and women back then.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Yeah, and you'd let them in your house and it
was yeah, and ninety percent of the time nothing happened.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
That's right, just a lot of vacuum sales, right, Okay.
So so she goes up and she rings Jerry Brutus's doorbell.
He is you see a picture of him. He looks
like a cartoon. He looks like the missing Friend on
King of the Hill, Like he's just he looks like
grown up Charlie Brown with army issue black glasses on,

(01:17:17):
just a big round head, like pasty, no distinguishing features,
a little lumpy uh.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
Yeah, kind of like almost like a bit of a snowman.
Just round, round round. I love the picture in my head.
I never want to see what he actually looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Just a vicious snowman.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Okay, okay, but he when he answers the door, friendly
and nice, low key, and he brings he's oh, come in,
I actually just was. I really wanted to get a
set of those acts super interested, then explains that his
I think he said his children were sleeping.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
I think that's what his excuse was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Can you come down into the basement, Oh yeah, so
they could talk business down there.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Well, she goes down.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
And he almost immediately hits her in the head with
a two by four, beats her and then strangles her
to death.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
And then did he mean to you that time? Do
you think? Yes? Okay, that was the whole idea, because
he was strangling until they passed out before.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
That, right, Okay, But this girl comes to his door,
and then he's like, the wife was out and he
knew he had time to do whatever he wanted, so
once before she after she's dead, and before he gets
rid of the body, he takes off her clothes and
dresses her up in the stolen underwear that he has

(01:18:33):
in his collection.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
Then this is bad.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
He cuts off her left foot and keeps it in
the freezer in a high heeled shoe. So it's like
he has no I'm just proceperssing that shit.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
He was crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
So then when he and at some point there his
wife came home and he went back upstairs in like
ate dinner with the family.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
I believe I read that in the an rule book.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
But I'm almost positive that that's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
He basically had family interactions like right after doing super normal,
well probably as normal as he is.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
Racked.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Yeah, he's probably always coming up from that sub basement
a little bit sweaty.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
So later in that night, he rolls her in a rug,
drives to a bridge, pulls out all this stuff to
make it look like he got a flat tire as
almost like safety, and then dumps her body in the river.
So then in July of nineteen sixty so that was January.
So six months later, Stephanie Vico is reported missing from Portland.

(01:19:38):
And then in November the same year, Jance Susan Whitney
is reported missing from Portland, Jan's twenty three year old
college student at the University of Oregon. Then in March
of nineteen sixty nine, So about six months later, a
woman named Karen Sprinkler, who was a nineteen year old
college student.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
Goes missing. And uh.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
When the police take the windess accounts of Karen going missing,
two young girls tell the police they saw a large
man dressed as a woman on the parking lot garage
roof where Karen's abandoned car was found on that day.
Whoa Uh, if you see a picture of this guy
and then you picture him lurking around like a parking

(01:20:24):
structure dressed as a woman, it's very scary.

Speaker 3 (01:20:27):
It's this scary.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
It's anyway, it sounds like uh Norman Norman Bates, Yeah,
just like his mom kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah, creepy.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Because probably from a distance, you're like, oh, yeah, there's
there's a woman up here on the same parking thing
you'd be you'd feel I think that's part.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
Of what's sinister to me. You're lured into safety of like,
oh that's a woman, just like man. Fine, I could
see myself doing that completely sure.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
So a month later, a woman Nam Sharon Wood is
attacked in a parking garage at Portland State University. She
fends off her attacker by biting his thumb until it bled,
and it of course turns out to be Jerry. Once
she does this, he beats her unconscious, but then a

(01:21:19):
car comes so he has to run, so the police
get the report of this make no connection to the
other parking garage attack. The next day after that attack,
Jerry sees fourteen year old Leanne Brumley.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
He tries to abduct her, she fights him off and escapes.
Day after that, a woman named Linda don Sale is
reported missing. Her car is found abandoned in a parking garage.
The police realize now that they're dealing with the serial killer.
So the next month, which is May of nineteen sixty nine,

(01:21:55):
a local fisherman discovers Linda Saley's body in the.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
Long Tom River. It was wade down by a car transmission.
And then two days after that, Karen Sprinkler's body is
found fifty feet away. Oh my god, so that's obviously
his dumping ground. Karen was also tied to an old engine,
which is the reason it kept her submerged for a
long time.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
And he this is bad. Okay. He cut off her
breasts to keep his souvenirs.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
He also placed a bra from his collection of undergarments
over her mangled chest, is the way they worded it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
Yeah, so this guy is basically berserking.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
He's like he's killing He's trying to attack women almost daily,
killing people, and then these bodies are coming up of
when he like, it's it's just all going faster and
fast like he started and then was fucking on yes,
and then anytime he can't, he can't, you know, someone
gets away, then he has to do try it again
the very next day.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
So it's like wow.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
So the same month, he starts calling dorm rooms at
Oregon State University to try to arrange blind dates with
the co ed What the fuck?

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
And it works? No?

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Uh huh?

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
What did he say? I don't know what? I want
to know? How he?

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
I mean, I would love to I would love to know,
And I bet you it's in that book. I promise
I'm going to finish reading this.

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
I'm just wondering everyone else should read it with me.
But yeah, insane.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
Uh So.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
They're now the police now are onto the pattern.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
They're staking out places where young co eds hang out
where they end up like parking structure stuff like that.
A female student who claims to have gone on a
blind date with this guy goes to police and gives
his description, so now the police know what he looks like. Wow,
And when he contacts her a second time for a

(01:23:54):
follow up date, she calls the police and tells them.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
So they the.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Police show up at the meeting spot. They questioned Jerry
at the girl's residence hall. Oh so melocking intents at
Oregon State. But he's so cooperative and he gave his ID,
nothing came back. It all seemed legit, so he was
not arrested because all they had on him was you're
just trying to make blind dates with people, which is

(01:24:23):
not illegal.

Speaker 3 (01:24:24):
But a bummer. But then the thank god, the police,
after that interaction with him.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
Go back and they look up his record. They look
into him further and think that blind date went forward
after that?

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
Yeah, yeah, she's like, once he got cleared by the cops,
she's like, so do you like roller skating? So they
look into his record.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
They decided to go to his house for some follow
up questions, and there they see several suspicious items in
his garage, in his sub basement, and they start building
a case against him because they're like they the old
classic line of cops, we like this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:25:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
So eventually they have enough evidence to arrest, to get
an arrest warrant. He tries to run while there the
police are serving him.

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
With the arrest warrant. Never do that, it's never gonna work.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
No, if the cops are there, yeah, you're done. But
the warrant was for the attempted deduction of Leanne Brumley
from the month before, and so then they starting they
get him in, take him downtown whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
They started terrogating him, and he tries to call he
he tries to call his.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Wife and get her to burn stuff, clothing and like
his his underwear collection and all my other evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:25:45):
He's like, now you can go into the sub basement. Yeah,
exactly right, here's the here's the basket. If Darcy's like.

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
Give fuck yourself for real, Darcy, Darcy's over it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:58):
She's she's had it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
So the investigator's name was Jim Stovell, and he basically
gets Jerry Brutos to confess to the murders of the
two recently discovered bodies, as well as the murder of
Linda Slawson and Jan Whitney.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
Wow, he's Jerry Brutos.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Is tested by several psychologists psychiatrists, sorry, and he shows
average i Q and cognition, deemed not criminally insane, which
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
I don't have to maybe because how can you be
a serial like murder people and not being a little insane.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
Yeah, but I'm not sure what criminally insane must have
a very specific thing, hardcore. But he is diagnosed as
an anti social personality manifested by fetishism, transvesticism, exhibitionism, voyeurism,
and sadism.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
Isn't trans isn't a fthing that back then? Transvesticism is
a crime. Yes, it's insane. Yeah, and it wasn't that
long ago. And I'm like, what is it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
It's nineteen sixty some point, life, I lost my paper.
We're in like, we're in the late sixties, nineteen sixty nine.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
I'm sure someone's gonna tell us when it went tell
and it's going to be recent. Yeah. Well, I mean
they just fucking passed a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
It's yeah, okay, So they collect all the evidence. He's
eventually charged with three counts of first of murder jan
Jan Whitney, Linda Sale, Karen Sprinkler. He tries to plead
not guilty, not guilty by reason of insanity, but eventually

(01:27:35):
they just get him to plead guilty, and so on
the same day that he pleads guilty, he's sentenced to
three consecutive life sentences because he confessed. Right, there's no
death penalty in Organs, so they just give him three
consecutive life sentences. He's never charged with the murder of
Linda Slawson because her body was never found.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Oh no, yeah, so sad.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
Now, around the time of all these murders, twelve women
went missing in that area while he was free, so
an investigation was ongoing to attempt to uncover the whereabouts
of those other missing women, and at one point a
neighbor of the Brutuses implicated Darcy in the murders, claiming
that she had helped Jerry carry a body from the garage,

(01:28:21):
and she actually ended up going to trial for it.
Now being acquitted.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Holy shit, yes do you think she did? Because what
a bummer to like have a have your husband turn
out to be a serial killer. Yeah, you're implicated and
have nothing to.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Do with it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:35):
I mean, that's what I would think. I don't think
someone I don't know, and.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
Based on what she's already done, you would think that
she would testify against him for immunity if she actually
knew something.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
Right and if she didn't burn that he called and
was like, get rid of the events.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
She's like, no way, that doesn't seem like a person
who's like in it for the long haul, or like
his accomplice. Yeah sure, and yeah, anyhow, he goes to jail.
But he also had piles of women's shoe catalogs in

(01:29:11):
his cell.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
He would write to the companies and ask for their
the catalogs, so there were He claimed that subject substituted
for pornography for.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
Him, and he actually uh.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
It says he lodged countless appeals, including one in which
he allegedly, oh sorry. He lodged countless appeals, including one
in which he alleged that a photograph taken of him
with one of the corpses could not prove his guilt
because it was not the body of the person he
was convicted of killing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
So he they found a picture of him posing with
a dead body, but he was well, probably him I
would imagine, yeah, kitchen time. Yeah, uh so, it's like
that kind of thing where he's arguing, like, look, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
Not the dead body. Then hey, you can't sell one else.
It's so insane. It's a picture of you posing with
a dead body. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
He died in prison on March twenty eight, two thousand
and six, from liver cancile.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
He lived for a long fucking time.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
In fact, at the time of his death, he was
the longest incarcerated inmate in the organ Department of Corrections,
a total of thirty seven years.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
Oh my god, my age. Yeah, how my entire life
is how long he was in prison? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
Holy So if you want to read Less Killer, I'm
going to finish it and then we'll know all those details,
kiss it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
I really do want to know, like all that stuff
at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
And I bet you it'll talk more about Darcy too,
because I'm sure she.

Speaker 3 (01:30:47):
Talked to Anrol. I bet you should talk to you
think so. I bet she did. Love to hear more
from Darcy. Try to finish that pretty soon.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
But also, thanks to those people from Radford University, your
research helped me do my thing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Thanks guys. Shout outs to fucking helpers. This episode. Wired
Magazine all this, Wow, what a creep. I had never
heard that one.

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
It's bad.

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
Yeah, it's one of those ones I've been working on.
But every time I go to date, I'm like, it's
just I mean, it's just there's no uh. But the
only thing was the two points. I always look for
those cinematic moments. One cinematic moment is a person dressed
up like a woman hiding in a parking garage, which
is the scariest, like beyond yeah. And then the other

(01:31:34):
one is that as a child attacking that little girl
and then being like I'm my twin brother.

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
It's like, how fucking crazy are you? That's like psycho level. Yeah, okay,
we're back, Karen. Do you have any updates?

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
No case updates. Although Jerry Brudos was featured in mind Hunter,
which I always that was interesting because you know, we
make jokes about it being so textbook, like he it's
such a serial killers childhood and all those things. It's like,
he's so textbook, and then the idea that like in
mind Hunter, they're like, yep, here's one of those people
that's exactly the kind of serial killer that's like here's

(01:32:15):
their fetish, here's their you know history.

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
Yeah, and he's not as much of a well known
serial killer as the others they showcased on that show.

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
Yes, that was interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
It is interesting. It makes me think that, you know,
we think a lot like John Douglas, the FBI agent
and author of Mind Hunter.

Speaker 3 (01:32:32):
I mean it's ten years, we're basically FBI agents.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
We have earned it, you know, clearly, we know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
We earned it. We put in our hours. What is
it called when you put your hours in for something,
clock in, clock out? No, like you pay your dues, Yeah,
something like that. We've paid her to We've paid our
news and then so we surely have all right, Well,
should we wrap this guy up with our our happy

(01:32:58):
things that Elvis and me are healthier?

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):
Oh no, oh good, yeah, let's wrap it up.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
Do you have a good thing for this week? I
have a good thing this week. Obviously it's Elvis getting
better and Mimi getting better. But now that they are better,
I can I can say what was going to.

Speaker 3 (01:33:18):
Be last week before this happened, which is had a kitten,
man a new kitten. Like nothing will make it more
exciting in your house, like just watching her playing with
a little toy by herself is like joyous. Yes. And
then at night, oh my god, at night she nurses.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
Tries to nurse Vince's head and it drives him crazy.
But it's like they I like color away, but not
before I look at it for a minute. It's just
so cute and she like nuzzles, and she's a real
character and I like having her around.

Speaker 3 (01:33:49):
She's super cute.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
Yeah, and it's funny because she matches mem It's like
they have the same jacket on, but Mimi's like, I
fucking hate you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
Mimi's jackets like obviously a little warm worn in. It's
because it's still lighter and gittler. She's watched it more
and she fucking hates the kitten. Yeah, Kitten's name is Dottie.
She's a real doll.

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
So what's yours mine is? I did a show last
night at Largo.

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
It was a comedy show for Brian Possain, who had
who's been doing comedy for thirty years, so it was
his thirty year anniversary.

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
Wow in comedy.

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
So he asked a bunch of us to do the
show with him, who's he's been doing it with that
long and so it was Me, Blanket Patch, Derek Sheen,
Dana Gould, Greg Proops, and guy O Beelam.

Speaker 3 (01:34:36):
And it was such a good show, like idea for
a show. It was so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
And then so everyone was like obviously doing their act
but then also telling these stories and doing jokes from
their act from back then.

Speaker 3 (01:34:48):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
And it was so fun and everyone was so insanely solid.
But then it also was like I had a couple
of moments I was it was very touching because I
was like, I said something about how lucky I felt
you have kind of happened into this tribe that I
found where it's like, you know, when those people in
San Francisco, those comics that I met and got to

(01:35:10):
be friends with, that all, and we all just moved
on mass to lad Yeah, and it was just such
an amazing group of talented people who were geniuses and
so fun and like telling stories where we're like at
a recovered memory on stage where it's like Brian remember
when oj Ran and we were in Golden Apple Comics,
and like it was just like a whole thing like that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:30):
It was really really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
That's such a nice thing to like, you know, you're
going through this and you're or like you've been comed
this long and you keep you're doing it, and you're
doing it, but then.

Speaker 3 (01:35:38):
To like stop and take take stock of it. Yeah,
such a cool thing. And I really I like that
you guys did that. I too, and it takes stock
in this kind of like I don't It was almost
like a high school. It had a high school feeling
in me, like meaning and the part of you're part
of this big force and you're part of it. Yeah,

(01:36:00):
you belong in it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
And I think like when you're in that, you of
course don't appreciate it because you're young and an asshole.
I drunk all the time and kind of on pills.
But yeah, when you later on, when you get older,
you know, just just know that, like when you have
your like posse of friends, it doesn't last because everyone
gets married or you know, maybe moves away or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:36:22):
It's comedy for whatever reason or yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
Exactly, it's just kind of people move away from each
other and in ways that you kind of don't expect.
And then so I think that there was a nice
kind of like reunion feel to it that I really liked.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
So awesome. Yeah, it's those good feelings.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
Yeay, and I because I really always I hate doing
stand up comedy so much, and I very often cancel
my sets because I'm like, there's no point. And I
knew I couldn't do it because I wouldn't do that
to Bryan special one. So then when I was actually
doing I was like, oh, I do like it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:53):
That's right, I do like comedy. Yeah, you got to
pick the ones that mean something to you, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:36:59):
Yeah, And just like acknowledge, when I'm busy, right and
TI TI tired and busy, I get so so tired.

Speaker 3 (01:37:09):
Okay, so we're back from our wrap up.

Speaker 2 (01:37:11):
Yes, So this episode was originally titled the Sharpest Needle
in the Tack, one of the great Georgia.

Speaker 3 (01:37:18):
Quotes, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
But if we were changing it today, which I don't
think we would, some options would be and whenever we
record an episode, Mollie or Bridge what comes in and
gives us options as titles, just so you guys know,
of like the stupid funny things we said in the episode.
So that's kind of what we're doing. So it wouldn't
change it, but here are some options. It could be
start us equals Anxiety, which is on my list and

(01:37:43):
I still don't know what the fuck that means. Maybe
it's that, like the universe is so vast and stardust
is so that it's overwhelming.

Speaker 3 (01:37:52):
That could be it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Yeah, maybe maybe you read that quote that we're all
made of stardust and.

Speaker 3 (01:37:56):
So yeah, gave me.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
You don't want that in there.

Speaker 3 (01:38:01):
That sounds like me.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
You don't want space rocks inside you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:04):
I don't want that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:05):
There's also twists and turns all over the place, which
is when Georgia teased her story is unexpected, and then
keeps on talking about the twists and turns.

Speaker 3 (01:38:14):
I do a lot of twists and turns.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
And then please doctors that Karen went on that we
went on a tangent about what it means to have
a cerebral cerebral hemorrhage.

Speaker 3 (01:38:24):
God, that's a hard one.

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
To say, Yeah it is, And Karen pleads with doctors
toy in, please doctors tell us how to do this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
I mean, it's how we've always been about this podcast.
We want doctors, we want the input. It's the guidance
is appreciated. We don't always take it, and often you're wrong,
but when you're right, you're right. We won't deny when
you're right.

Speaker 3 (01:38:43):
You're probably way more professional than we are.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
So guys, we'll get in here.

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
Tell us all right, So thanks you guys for listening.
We're going to say goodbye in the original episode from
twenty seventeen. Thanks for coming in and listening to rewind.
Well what should I see if anyone is going to talk?
Ellis isn't mem Well, thanks for listening, everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:39:09):
Thank you guys for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
Yeah, yeah, go onto the website if you want to
get those pre sale tickets for the upcoming tour.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
Australia.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
Heads Up, Australia, get ready, get in there, Australia be
our friends.

Speaker 3 (01:39:22):
Yeah, and that's it. Stay sexy, don't get murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
Bye bye me want.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
To cookie me?

Speaker 3 (01:39:32):
Me? Not this week, he's just like leaning away from
the microphone.

All Episodes

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 79: Sharpest Needle In The Tack

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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