518 - Live at the San Diego Civic Theatre (San Diego Night 1) - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M what's up, San Diego?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Wow? Do you see.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Somebody way at the top of the third row of there? Hi, guys,
just a little a little camera light flashing back and forth.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
God.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I always forget that's gonna happen until I walk out
on stage and then it happens, and I was like, oh,
I want to cry every time. I know.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's very moving. Kai, how's it going everybody?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
There's a sign someone held up that said Karen Doer
what is it called herky?

Speaker 3 (01:18):
First of all, First of all, not taking notes from
the audience, first and foremost, don't boss me the fuck around.
And also, yeah, as you know, there's some ex cheerleaders
in the house right now that are like police. Oh no,

(01:40):
that many? Oh oh oh shit. We're surrounded by ex
cheerleaders apparently.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
You know they'll fight for you.

Speaker 5 (01:49):
Yeah, I'll throw down, I hope. So what's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, we're on tour. Everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's very excited, it's very fun.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's very exciting. I will tell a really quick airport story. Okay,
you were there as well, Yeah, so, which isn't that common.
They don't let us fly at the same time a lot.
But we were at this airport and I walked in
and one of the first people I saw was the

(02:23):
act the British actress Jesse Buckley.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
For some reason reason sorry nothing, she.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Has red hair. She has red hair. I don't think
that necessarily means she's Irish. It doesn't matter. If you
saw the recent Olivia Coleman movie Nasty Little Letters or
whatever it was called, it's hilarious, she is the redheaded
woman and that she's the young mother that is being
fucked over by everybody. So she's an amazing actress.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
She's so good.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
She's so good. She's been in a million things, but
she's she's my one of my favorites. And so when
I walked in, I almost walked straight up to her,
which is not my style at all. I'm really not
interested in celebrities of any kind of what they do
because it's all fake. But but she's one of those
kind of people where she's like so legit and badass,

(03:14):
and I was like, I almost went up, like, oh
my god, it can't believe in like got in her face.
But instead I saw Georgia first, and I was like,
do you read? And I didn't have three words out.
George was like I know, I know, and I was.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Like, she never does that. It's so true, Like she
doesn't care about famous people, so it's like a big deal.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
And I was like, you were, but you were definitely
like calm the fuck down and you are not going
over there. And I was like, yes, of course you
should have.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I would have pushed you.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, but here's what happened. So when we landed, I
was like, yeah, that's best that I didn't say anything
to her. And then I was walking out the door
and just by chance, she was walking this way, so
as I was moving, just never paused or anything. I
just went, you're the best, and she literally went like this,

(04:03):
thank you. Did not want to hear it at all.
It's so lucky season.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Ladies, and it's very I can't even see you.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, there will be a three car pile up on
this stage tonight. Get ready.

Speaker 5 (04:25):
What are you wearing?

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Oh my god, that's cute.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
I love those Oh my outfit. Oh this dress, it's
no big deal.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
It's just.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
It's yet another dress with pockets. Although let me just
say this. We were just in Oakland and I decided
I was going to wear a vintage dress because I
liked it it didn't have pockets. That audience turned on
me so fucking fast, so fast.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Tell them about the broach backstage.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
On this brooch that's some a beautiful purple brooch that
someone gave us, maybe Salt Lake City. Maybe on this trip.
We get lovely gifts from people. And so I had
it in my bag and then George's like, this is
the dress I'm going to wear. And I'm like, oh
my god. And I pulled the brooch out and I'm like,
you could wear this, and she's like we were.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Like admiring it. It was shimmery, it.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Was just perfectly and then she's like okay, and she
turns around and it literally was as if the brooch
jumped up out of my hand and slammed itself on
the ground, because it's like suddenly I dropped it and
the center gem from this brooch busted out and broke
into four pieces.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
It was tragic.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
It was bad. But now it's more of a like
a wreath shape with nothing in the center.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
It still works. Yeah, it still works.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
We could make it work. Yeah. I thought you had
some anecdotes that you said you wanted to share.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Something about chin hair and how being on tour or
for some reason, every hotel we've stayed and has like
terrible mirror lighting. So when I get home, it's just
hair city face.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Oh yes, and.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I run straight to that magnifying mirror and just zen out.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Got rid of it. Yeah, because there are those like
old witch in the woods hairs that sneak up on you.
And then you're just like, great, how many people have
I talked real close to with like a thing coming out?
Always the question you have to ask yourself, are you
going to do.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Your Oh you're wearing yes, thank you. I got it
a few days ago when we were in San Francisco
for shows nice, and I'm obsessed with it. Isn't it pretty?
There's some vintage stains on it? Sure, sure I could
have washed those out. Well, look at that.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
It's a big You did call this the dust cover earlier.
You're like, what do I do? It's a dust cover
of this?

Speaker 2 (06:59):
It does look like I'm a couch, Like hasn't been
sat on in twenty five years?

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Hasn't been a butt on this couch twenty five years?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Should we sit at our tiny table?

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
This is my favorite bird of the podcast.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
That's right, and that's Georgia Hartstar, that's Karen Kilgera, and
we're very so pleased to be with you tonight. Sandy,
I go, oh, look at it tiny.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
We got a text at like five o'clock being like, hey,
so we order the exact same table as we always do,
but for some reason it's tiny. Is that okay? As
if we were going to be like, now, put it
on a box or something.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Uh so I did yell four bricks just at the
top of my mind, full bricks.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
I think it's better than if it was like too
tall and we looked like little children.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
But I also like this, this is real Alice in
Wonderland situation where we're just like too big, too small.
We don't know.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
I don't mind it.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, it works right, sure, sure, it's fine. Do you
want to tell them why they're here? What's happening?

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Absolutely, you're here because you really liked listening to two
people talk for reasons that you can't explain to your family,
our friends, except for those special ones that understand and
already we're listening. You came out at seven pm on

(08:31):
a Tuesday to support this talking, and we really appreciate it.
We know a Tuesday, this is time for Bible study.
You should not be here. But if you are here
and you don't listen to this podcast, you're going to
be very confused and probably upset. So we just want

(08:54):
to say this to you. Now, this is a true
crime comedy podcast. But George and I I don't think
murder is funny. We just think we're funny, and we
are the types of people who have had the kind
of trauma in our early lives that we then learned
to cope with that trauma through the use of humor.
And so we also I think coped with it through

(09:18):
the obsession with true crime and those things that when
they come together only certain people understand. So if you're
a drag along and someone made you come here and
you don't like what's happening, you are welcome to get
the fuck out. Thank you, good job, thank you. I'm

(09:43):
going to make this by the end of this store,
that speech will be forty five minutes long, and then
we'll just mention two cases in passing and get the
fuck out ourselves.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
All right, Well, we don't know each other stories, right.
We also never tell people that, but it's true, which
makes everyone who works with us hate our guts.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yes, but it's always a surprise. What Georgia is about
to tell me is a surprise. What I'm going to
tell her as a.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Surprise to her. Yeah, and I'm first, right, and you
are first. Let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Thanks. Don't you feel like a proper Victorian lady's side
saddling this table?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Does this feel very like? Quite? I should have a cigarette?

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Ooh, okay, next time.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
So you know, in Echo Park there is a huge
white domed mega church called Angelus Temple, you know, the
one I do. And there's always people walking around it
for some reason.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, they've got a lot of pedestrian action over there,
they do.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
It's a thing in Echo Park.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
And so that building is actually one of the country's
oldest megachurches.

Speaker 5 (10:55):
Did you know that?

Speaker 2 (10:56):
And it was founded in nineteen twenty three by the
end a bad a character I'm going to be talking
about tonight, And she actually started amassing followers right here
in San Diego. So it's a bit of the so
Cal story. I want to take a look at the temple. Nope,
that's her.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
There she is.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
That's not a temple, that's her. Oops, there she is.
This is a story about an eccentric Pentecostal evangelist. Evangelistlists
thank you who at the height of'm Jewish who.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
At the.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
You don't have those who, at the height of her
popularity disappeared under mysterious circumstances. This is the story of
Sister Amy Semple McPherson.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yes, I bet you bought that dress before.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Oh, I bet I have that amazing And I'm always
going like that, like I'm reading out of a Bible. Amen,
here ye is that how you?

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yep? A lot of hear ye, hear ye in the Bible.
Definitely cool.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
So the main sources I use for the story are
Claire Hoffmann's book Sister Sinner, The Miraculous Life and Mysterious
Disappearance of Amy Simple McPherson, and the PBS American Experience
documentary Sister Amy. She got her own American Experience episode.
That's a day. It's bag.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Sorry really quick, Can we have a little more of
us and the monitors on stage? So sorry to say
something like that in front of them.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
No, No, am I very I feel like I'm very
loud in my mic I just can only hear myself
and I don't like her.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well we do, so shut up. How's that a little better?

Speaker 4 (12:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:42):
That works better. And here's the temple in Echo Park.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
There it is. There used to be a really good diner,
right spot, the fucking right spot, and they just kept
changing hands and now it's something totally different. Yeah, you
can't go there anymore. Now you can't, I mean you can.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
Maybe it's better in a while.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes, that's right. Chuck your yelp reviews.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Don't listen to us, don't ever listen to us. Okay,
so let's talk about Amy. She I mean Amy Kennedy
was born in eighteen ninety and raised in a devout
Methodist and Salvation Army household in rural Ontario, Canada. Do
you know they have a rural good job. As a teenager,

(13:23):
Amy starts questioning how religion and science co exist? How
does it work? No one's ever figured it out, Magnets,
magnets right at this time. Boredom and curiosity leads her
to a local tent revival where a Pentecostal preacher is
wooing new believers. So imagine this young lady. She's like,

(13:44):
not sure what's what she wants out of life. She's
in a rural place and she comes in I've been there, yeah,
and she sees the very good looking preacher Robert Semple,
and she's like, that's my religion now, amen.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I believe.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
I believe. They get married into Nope in nineteen oh
eight when name is just eighteen, and together they become
missionaries bringing God's word to China. They're very successful at it,
particularly Amy, Like that picture I showed you, that's when
I wanted that I did it wrong.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's okay.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
She's a charismatic and powerful preacher, and oh, thank you
so much, thank you, appreciate you, thank you. She's like, say,
I'm right.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Here, look at the power you yourself are right now
believing whatever it is she's trying to espouse.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Amen. Amen, she's they went over a lot of converts
together because they're just charismatic and probably really good looking together. Unfortunately,
they both also contract malaria. Yeah, and so while pregnant
Amy survives and her new but her new husband dies
a fucking dysentery. Oh no, yeah, like what a bummer.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
What I hate to question you this early in the story.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, always do it.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
He contracted malaria, but he died of dysentery.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Oh yeah, really yeah, according to my to Alie, yeah
does one? Does one happen after the other?

Speaker 6 (15:21):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (15:21):
To me?

Speaker 3 (15:22):
No?

Speaker 7 (15:22):
Never?

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Are you questioning religion and science again? And now they
work together?

Speaker 4 (15:28):
No?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
No, no, Amy says no. But Amy gives birth to
a daughter and months after Robert's death and names her Roberta,
and the two of them sail back to America shortly
after Roberta's birth.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
So her baby lives, her.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Baby and her live, and her hot preacher husband dies
of dysentery.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Maybe Astrik look.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
It up later. So Amy joins her mother back home,
who offered her name is Mildred, but she goes by
Minnie and she starts working with the Salvation Army in
New York City, and that's where she meets an accountant
named Harold Stewart McPherson, who she then marries in nineteen twelve.
At this point, Amy's still just in her early twenties,

(16:15):
and the newly Woods moved to Providence, Rhode Island, and
they have a son named Rolf. But Amy is not great.
She's not doing great. She has a big depressive episode
and pretty much the issue is that she doesn't want
to be a housewife. She wants to be back on
the road preaching, and she thinks it's her calling, and
so she gets back to evan evangelicizing. Nope, evangelizing evangelizing,

(16:42):
that's a word gonna called me. That's a word doesn't assume, right, What.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
A wonderful life you've led? Not happy to deal with
this shit.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
So she gets back to it, and she holds tent revivals,
amassing such a sizeable falling that she's forced to go
to larger and larger venues. She becomes really popular, and
she's so passionate about her work that she starts putting
more and more production value into every appearance. So like
a little razzle dazzle.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
The hand goes up a little higher, fans out a
little further.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Maybe there's some sequence. Does God like sequence?

Speaker 3 (17:21):
I don't know her does he invented them?

Speaker 2 (17:27):
And so her servants are fully theatrical, with costumes and
props and oh what I pay to see.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
That right now?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (17:34):
You know, but I wouldn't actually pay to see it.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah. Amy performs faith healings, speaks in tongues, and describes
experiencing divine visions. She finds a way to strike that
perfect balance of fervor and spectacle, and she has this
really smart idea of keeping the super fanatical followers in
a different tent so they don't scare away. But like, not,

(17:56):
we're not there yet, people, but like maybe, oh, what's
check this out? Yeah, So she just keeps them apart.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
It's like, everybody chill in this tent, and if you
want to freak out about Jesus, you have to go
over there.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh next door, Yeah, to freak out about Jesus.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
And they're like, hey, you're the one that's making us
freak out this much, and she's like, not my problem.
I can't can't control my charisma.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
So Amy's great at what she does, but her new husband, Harold,
doesn't love that she's so married to her work. So
she gets sick from appendicitis and the experience, I guess
was so hardcore that it changes her. And through the suffering,
she hears a voice telling her to return to preaching
on the road full time.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
So she takes the kids and gets the fuck out
of there.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
So she gets appendicitis and she's like, oh, oh God
speaking God is saying I shouldn't be a housewife anybody.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, But she sends letters to Harold inviting him to
join her.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
She's like, I'm not breaking up with you, but you.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Have to come to you do my thing.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah. He takes her up on it at first, hoping
to drag her back home. He sets up their tents
and he tries his own hand at preaching alongside her. Right, yeah,
I can't do it. They sell their house and live
out of their so called gospel car, which what do you.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Think that was?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Edsel? Definitely with their two young kids. Oh those kids
were fucking miserable. So there's no air conditioning for sure anywhere.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
But maybe no school. So yeah, yeah, hippie wonderland.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
But Harold's super not into it. He's not nearly as
popular as his wife, which had to sting, so he
leaves her behind, returns to Rhode Island, and files for divorce.
So she tours the amy tours the South with her
mother instead.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
She's like, fuck you, you're cool, I'll get my mom.

Speaker 5 (19:49):
Yeah, I'm killing my mom.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
She's not a sore loser, right and uh, they preached
from a perch on the backseat of their convertible. She
just shouts.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
Sermons through a mega phone, which.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
How they do it that's a real pretty standard.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
God, can't hear you just talking?

Speaker 3 (20:06):
No?

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Wait, I'm on a microphone right now. What am I
fucking talking about?

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Can you hear us?

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Lord, Kettle, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
It's us. Can you get me a new grouch? Is
this how this works?

Speaker 2 (20:20):
We're podcaster. It's the highest form of believers, you know,
our religion podcasts.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
We're literally turning this audience against us so hard. You know,
it's like what else can we make fun of?

Speaker 2 (20:34):
All the cheerleaders hate us already.

Speaker 5 (20:37):
Any Pentecostals in the house.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
You're like bye, So they go out. The audiences are
like building. They're super odd by her public faith healing performances,
and word about her talents spreads across the country, and
she works so hard. This might sound familiar. She makes
herself sick.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Oh yeah, she says that she wipes knows.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
This is like I have a nervous I'm really not
happy about this nos thing that keeps happening.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think it's charming and people love it.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Maybe the first time. Thank you. We need to be
sponsored by an allergy medication.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
Promo code murder.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yes, So she makes herself sick from exhaustion. A doctor
advises her to recuperate in warmer climate, because I think
that's what they do back then, is just go over there,
they bleed you out.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
Pick one.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
So, but then her daughter comes down with the Spanish flu,
which is my favorite influenza.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
Really honestly, and.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
While praying over her, she receives a yet another divine message.
God says, you get to go. However, he says it,
you gotta go to California.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
He says, here, you here, you here, you here.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
God loves California. I guess that's right.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
You know why the butter.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Are we known for our butter?

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Such good butter. Oh that's your town, right, Pedaluma specific butter.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
The orange fields that we don't have anymore, they're all gone.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
We cut them all down.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
They were great.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
We cut them down, made them parking lots. You heard
the song.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
So Amy Amy's skills are really profitable in southern California,
where she begins holding small revival meetings at local churches
and rented halls with her mother. Mini word spreads and
she starts drawing in larger crowds and tents and auditoriums.
Hey across southern California.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Stop comparing yourself to Amy's simple graph.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Podcasting and gospels the same thing.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
It is the same, very much.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
So she's the original podcaster. That's og podcast, that's true
spreading of the word. At one point, the city has
to call in the Marines in order to control a
crowd of thirty thousand people who show up to one
of her revivals.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
So that's no, that's Joe Rogan level.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I wrote vintage viral. It's she went vintage viral.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
At this point in the early twenties, Amy is now
about thirty and the population of California is booming because
people are coming from the Midwest and the East Coast
because it's cooler here. And so she starts focusing her
efforts up north in Los Angeles, and celebrities start attending
her services. Remember the show, No, I'm not gonna yep,

(23:41):
you know what I'm talking about. Yes, And she's in
this Yes, what's it called?

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Parry Mason said it first? I said it first, Perry Mason.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Roll the tape back. We want to hear it.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
And the girl from Warps and Black plays her. Yes,
And when you were talking about I would kill to
see that there are scenes inside that church for doing
her thing totally.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
And I think this storyline is, you know, is made
for TV, but it's in there. But that's a great
show and she's part of it. So I don't even
need to read this to you, you know.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
And now we're going to watch it together every episode.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
So media celebrities start paying attention to her. She's getting
a little famous. But remember she suffered a health set back,
because the whole point of her being in California is
to recuperate. But she is a vintage workaholic, and against
doctor's order, she continues her nightly services, which are so
popular that people have to wait hours just to get
inside to see her. That's how much they like her

(24:44):
and God, they ship her in God? Is that what
the kids say? Angelinas are so enraptured by her dramatic
and theatrical style of worship. But some of them build
a house for her to live in. They're just like,
here's a house.

Speaker 5 (24:58):
We like you so much.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Immediately, I don't know timeline there, they.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Like leave church and they're just like, go get some wood.
I have to express how I feel.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
We must shelter her.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
We must, So it's kind of amish of them to
do that.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Actually, but maybe I mean there's so much land then
back then in southern California.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
Yeah, you know, they just walk outside and you know.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Throw one up right here, right and so, but there's
something even bigger that she wants than a house and
all these followers. Amy starts raising money to build her
very own venue. Congregants eagerly contribute, and in nineteen twenty three,
the fifty three hundred seat Angelus Temple opens, which in

(25:43):
today's seats.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Is doesn't matter. I'd get it wrong. Fifty right.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
It looks like a white colisseum in the middle of
Los Angeles. It's right by Echo Park Lake, and in
its first seven years, more than forty million visitors walk
through its door to see this like biblical production. Every Sunday.
Amy expands into radio. Hey, like podcasting on those.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
Theories coming true as you tell this.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Story, becoming one of the first women to have her
own broadcast license and found her own religious radio station,
and she starts being pictured with celebrities, and even Charlie
Chaplin comes to her service sometimes, Hey, I know.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
Should I tell my story about Trump?

Speaker 2 (26:29):
That's so good?

Speaker 3 (26:30):
You may have heard this art if you listen to
this podcast. Which is the problem with having a podcast
for a person like me. You love to tell the
same four anecdotes over and over, Like we heard this one, Karen.
When I bought the house I live in now, my cousin,
my real estate agent, cousin, Pete Castro. Contact him. If
you're trying to buy real estate in Los Angeles. That's

(26:52):
a great person, very honest, really fun, good times. Anyhow,
Pete Castro for all your real estate aids. Anyhow, he
went and had to go get some paperwork, finalized paperwork, whatever.
And when he was there in the in the official
city files, they found a certificate that said this house

(27:14):
is owned by Charles Chaplin, and so they made a
copy of it, and then they gave it to me,
like framed in a frame as a housewarming yaft. And
I was like love what and they're like, yuh, it's
we found it on the city thing. And we all
freaked out, and I hung it in my kitchen. I
would bring people. I would make people come and stand
near it just be like, did you see I don't

(27:36):
know if we saw that he used to live here
and it's not that big of a house, and it's
actually was built in nineteen fifty, so it's kind of
modern comparatively, But I didn't care, and I never really
asked one question about it until mid COVID when my
next door neighbor Joey came over and I met him
for the first time, and he'd lived there for like
thirty years, and I was and we were just talking

(27:57):
about everything and getting to know each other, and then
I then I said, oh, by the way, did you
know Charlie Chaplin used to live And before the sentence
was over, he was like, no, that's Chuck, that's check
Miles neighbors. No relation, no fucking relation to Charlie Chaplin whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
That's impossible. But here's the thing about that, though he
lived there for thirty years, which is only nineteen ninety five, Yeah,
so maybe he doesn't fucking know maybe ten years before that,
Charlie fucking Chaplain.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
It's like the oldest Charlie Chaplin of all times. Like, hey, no,
I just say that. I went in and very quietly
took that framed thing down and stuck it in a drawer,
and anytime anyone asked me, I pretend like I don't
know what they're talking about I never said that. What
do you mean.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I love it. I think you should keep it up
because it's just Yeah, it's a great story.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
Also, my cousin's here tonight too. I forgot Savannah.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Hi, Savannah Hi.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
She's the sweetest. She's a liar here in San Diego,
a real liar. So you guys better watch out. No
trip and falls in this theater tonight, No way, not
on my watch.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
Radio it happened.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
And then Charlie Chaplin happened yep, and then she just
and then.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
I stopped your story cold. And now we're back.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
In anyways, huge celebrity. She's working overtime, performing daily church services,
live radio broadcasts, fundraising, and nationwide revival tours.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
You know, she wants to do it all.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
But the more attention Amy receives, of course, the more
her haters want to bring her down.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
As they do.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
There are plenty of there, trolls back then, been to.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Trolls always in humanity, man, since the dawn of Man.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm angry that you're successful. No, this is the.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Story of canaan Abel, is it. Guys. We're gonna fold
some scripture through this show tonight. Everyone's gonna leave happy.
I swear to God.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
There are plenty of people who don't believe in her
particular brand of Christianity. They point out that she's a divorcee,
oh no, slut, and some of them think that the
theatrics and flourishes are over the top, like meanwhile, people
are speaking in tongues and have snakes. You know, it's
just but she had props. Okay, is that not normal

(30:19):
in church? You guys don't do prop.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Know really what it is is. But she's a woman,
oh right.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Critics accuse her of acting in her own best interest
while she's pretending to be a modern day disciple, which
God forbidh literally, yeah, that's actually the rule. At the
same time, this is not quite the profit driven model
of televangelists that would later be adopted. It's her ministry

(30:46):
actually does a fair amount of charity work and social
good They distribute food, they offer clothing banks, and they
help local immigrants, particularly the working class and Hispanic populations
of Echo Park. So she does.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Go what I like that you said, she does a
fair amount, And it's like, as a church, shouldn't you
do like an unfair amount, like an insane over the
top amount. Book with all that money, just an observation,
not a new one. Joel Allstein remember one and like

(31:20):
ten years ago, Texas flooded and Joel Allstein said his
megachurch doors were closed to the public. And then the
guy that had a mattress, Doore, opened his doors to
the public, and that solved everything in this country because
then people realized, no, you're right, you're right, you're right.
My mistake, that wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Not yet that did not happen. And then Amy disappears.
Oh okay, So on May eighteenth, nineteen twenty six, Amy
goes for a swim at Venice Beach along with her
secretary Emma, and that morning, Emma stays on the sand
while Amy wades into the water. But after a while,

(32:04):
Emma loses sight of her and starts freaking out, and
so she assumes she's drowned. Emma unless lifeguards and bystanders
to join the search immediately, but there's no sign of
Amy dead or alive.

Speaker 5 (32:18):
Within what.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
I'll go the whole thing. I'm just gonna listen the
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
First. I swear to God, no do it.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
I interrupted you right before Amy disappears last time. I
don't want to do.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
That was it? That was the button.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
So the last Emma saw was that she was.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Out swimming out, yeah, and suddenly can't find her, doesn't
see her, she doesn't come back to shore.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Emma's freaking out.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
She calls a bunch of people to try to help
find her, thinking she drowned.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Are you seeing this fogg or is it.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Just makes a lot of fucking fog. It's a fucking
the fog budget for this tour. Fog got on the
astronomical It truly is. We're actually not even getting paid all,
but all their money is going to perform straight to
straight to fog.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
This hot ice machine or whatever the fuck it's called
at anyway over in foggy London town. What if that's
what it was. We're just changing locations now. So it
was a foggy day at Venice Beach.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Actually it probably was. Here's a picture of thousands of
church members gathered to pray for her on the beach
and to find her. They're praying, they're freaking out, there's
no sign of her. That's a lot of fucking people.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
At the beach. How many of the people that were
like around twelve years old that their parents forced them
to go. Just kept staring at that roller coaster and
they're just like, please, mommy, please, God.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Gave me a message that he wants me on that
roller coaster.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
I'm feeling particularly called to the pier. Anyone else, thank you.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
And so thousands of people go back to Angelus Temple
to pray for her safe return, and some even in
the morning process thinking she's probably fucking drowned. Her disappearance
is huge news. A massive search effort takes place. There's
deep sea divers and hundreds of the officers calmbing the shore.
Here's a picture of a newspaper headline, Amy Pherson, believe Brown.

(34:20):
She's got that hand up again.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
She's It turns out she could never put it down.
It's not a cam permanent cast.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Arm asleep in the ocean. What what broke that hold?

Speaker 3 (34:36):
On a second? You know, back then they could if
your last name was Mick Pherson, they could just substitute
the sea with an apostrophe.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Didn't know that, Amy, my person?

Speaker 5 (34:48):
Yeah I did, No, they did that.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
It's strange. What else is going on in Los Angeles?
Al Smith Brand's dry law retaliation dishonest? Okay that Al
Smith young Young suffers seven broken ribs. What okay, sorry,
sorry to read the newspaper in front of you, My mistake.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
The dragon along is like, what in the fuck am
I watching?

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Why they're reading papers? Some of them they're reading things
behind them. It's not podcasting, dude.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Blah blah blah. There is also uh speculation as to
what really happened that day, particularly when Amy's radio engineer,
a handsome but married man named Kenneth or Ormiston, also
turns out to be missing. Oh did you go swimming?
It didn't go swimming, and Keith, Kenneth and Amy had

(35:47):
actually been caught flirting is all that we have over
the church's inner intercom system. Like they didn't know they
had hot mics on.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Oh I know that's the best.

Speaker 5 (35:58):
Hey, what kind of flirting?

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Hey? Baby? Like they were not flirting, they were doing it,
and you fucking know it. They just like are too
proper to say that.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Back then you're in the main chapel dusting, Hey, what's
up with you? And then you're like everyone runs in
the main chapel.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
So good, best day of someone's life.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
So that if that happened to you, you would want
to just walk into the sea, Right.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
That's true. Fucking yeah, there's that's not cool. That's that's horrible.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
So embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, and he's married. So what looks really bad for
this person who her saying she's really really religious but.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
They're hand up in the air all the time.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
What if that's for flirting? What's up?

Speaker 5 (36:45):
Right after that happened?

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Kind of? His wife shows up at the temple and
makes a big scene about the whole thing.

Speaker 5 (36:50):
Good for her, fucking throw down?

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Oh because her husband's now disappeared.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
No, because someone caught them quote flirting.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Oh this is in between the two Yeah, yea, yeah,
got you.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
And this was obviously really embarrassing and distressing to Amy,
but it had been even more distressing to her mother, Minnie,
who been involved at the church for years. She's really
disappointed in her daughter, and then her daughter disappears. So
after five whole weeks, Amy's mother, Minnie, decides to proceed
with a memorial service at the temple for her daughter.

(37:21):
She believes she's dead, but according to some reports, Minnie
had actually pronounced Amy dead the day after her disappearance
and suggested that her daughter, Roberta, who's now fifteen, should
take over for her daughter.

Speaker 5 (37:34):
The next day, she's like, no.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
What, my granddaughter's stepping in.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
She listens to me. Now she don't listen to mena.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
The fifteen year old should take over this megature Gee,
oh my god. You guys did you hear about Lotte's life?
They not fifteen year olds. Don't talk like that. Me
Moore Karen Well, I don't care. It's my new character.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
And so people attend the service for what they believe
is Amy's memorial, but something strange is happening.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
In the meantime.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
The police keep getting tips from people who believe they're
seeing Amy in and around the town of Carmel by
the Sea, oh, about four hundred and fifty miles north
of here. And it's just a bunch of non related
people being like, yep, we know what she looks like
because she's always on the newspaper there she is. Oh no,
so authorities.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
So.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
On June twenty third, nineteen twenty six, one month after
her disappearance into the ocean, Amy turns up in Agua
Prida in Mexico, just across the border from Douglas, Arizona.
She claims, you've heard.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
This one before.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
She claims that she'd been held in a shack somewhere
in the desert where kidnappers were holding her prisoner. Vintage Vintage,
Gone Girl.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Right, they shacked in there.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
She says that she had been out on the beach
that day and a couple had come up to her
and asked her to pray over their sick child, and
then when she went to the car with them, swoop
they just kidnapped her. M you wink.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
But she can't give a ton of details.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
About her captors or the shack in the desert, which
is never found.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
But what details do you need of a shack in
the desert?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Shack?

Speaker 3 (39:22):
It's shitty wood, There was graffiti on the inside. There
was one small bench.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Right, that's what do you mean?

Speaker 3 (39:31):
We know what a shack in the desert looks like.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
And the media, of course, goes crazy. On her return,
thongs of supporters celebrate the e the Angelus Temple, believing
that she survived through the divine protection this ordeal, that
she was kidnapped. When she arrives back in La by Training,
thousands of her fans and followers greet her at the
station with flowers, songs, and chanting her name.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
We oh, Amy, you were in a shack in the desert.
Now y'are back. We're so proud of you.

Speaker 8 (40:03):
We love Jesus to Amy, Amy, Amy.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Thank you so much, appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
That was beautiful.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
It's fun to imagine songs people would sing at this
train station.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Back because you don't know, you could be exactly right,
you know, I could be dead on. Yeah, that's their something.

Speaker 5 (40:23):
They're all singing.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
It's Amy's training. And here she comes. Let me stand
over here, I'm a man.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
So she makes her triumphant return to the pulpit, and
the temple overflows and worshipers are convinced that she has
a direct line to go o d okay. She's dramatically
escorted to thunderous applause, escorted and.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Like James Brown, like she's all tired already, totally.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
People are overcoming droid. They faint at the sight of her,
like it's you know, are they faking it? That's a
little dramatic.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
He's like, wait, watch her arms about to go up.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
I'm gonna lose it.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
If her arm goes up, is how to go, I'm
gonna lose it.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
I will lose it. We have a whole another one
of these after this.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
You gotta keep it.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Fresh, keep it tight.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
That's right. So if Amy's followers had faith in her before,
they're even more devout. The non believers are like, uh, yeah, right,
they're over it. This includes the LA District Attorney, a
man named Asa Keys. He believes that this is either
a publicity stunt or a cover up for that romantic rendezvous,
and so he convenes a grand jewelry to determine if
fraud has taken place, which.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
I just thought a second ago. Okay again, what about
the intercom coming on? And then it's like, so, anyway,
how many brothers and sisters do you have?

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Are your eyes green or blue? I can't?

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Oh no, oh no, we're Mike.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Sorry, No, it's good. We need we need it. We
needed in today's economy.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Today's in twenty twentive. We need these terrible jokes.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
So witnesses come forward. Hotel maids, neighbors, people just from
Caramel by the Sea.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
Have you been there?

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah, it's cute, right, They like, don't have house numbers
or something.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Right, no addresses and it's covered in caramel. It's so delicious.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
But it seems like a good place to hide out,
especially back then.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Probably right, nobody could get up the one back then, right,
take days the one.

Speaker 5 (42:41):
There was no one, It was only a two.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
And so all of them swore that they saw Amy
and Kenneth together. Reporters came on the courthouse steps, they
were filing daily stories, and her kidnap case becomes front
page news across America. Let's ask your grandparents about that,
our great grandparents. Yeah, everyone's young here. Yeah, prosecutor's paint

(43:09):
this sensational picture that she had faked her an abduction
to cover this illicit romance. Oh God, Kenneth's wife must
have been so fucking pissed.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
So pissed. And also it's such a weird idea where
it's like blind insanely famous.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, because of.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
God, let me go ahead of this affair by drowning.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
Right, It doesn't sound planned.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
That's just the beginning and we'll figure the rest out later.
Come on, Kenneth, that was.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
A rough draft.

Speaker 5 (43:36):
She went for it.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
So basically, if it's true, she lighted her congregation, obstructed justice,
wasted the resources of police and the Coastguard who were
looking for her, all the volunteers who were looking for
her body. So indictments for perjury and conspiracy loom, but
Amy maintains her story and she has the support of
thousands of her followers. So the great winds up proving

(44:01):
that Kenneth had rented a cottage in Carmel by the Sea,
but Kenneth claims he had actually been renting it with
a different woman altogether, not even Amy.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
That's a great excuse. No, hear him out, hear him out.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
He's got to be going somewhere with this, right, It
was not my side piece, your honor, it was my
back piece.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Don't worry about it. She's a different one.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
But essentially because he says that the city's forced to
drop the case due to lack of evidence in nineteen
twenty seven, one year after the disappearance. So him saying
he had a side piece that wasn't his side piece
got her off.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, and the wife is still over there, like this
isn't making it better, Kenneth.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, where's my redemption?

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Sparc please please? Now, There's actually.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
One more theory about Amy's disappearance that gets kicked around,
and that is actually was a legitimate kidnapping, and that
her Amy's mother arranged it because because remember, her mom
was in that Perry Mason too. Yes, there's very little
evidence allegedly allegedly they're all dead that point to this,

(45:06):
but some people do point out that Minnie was unhappy
with her daughter's behavior and possible affair.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
And actually wanted her granddaughter.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
To take over. So she was like set up, set
up a kidnapping to get rid of her daughter.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Joinked her off image sent her to the desert to
that one.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Shack that we all know and love.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
But it has a little chimney, but there's no fireplace.
It's just what they need.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
But yeah, not a lot to back this up. So
Amy returns to her regularly scheduled pulpit programming at the
Angelist Temple, but rarely discusses the incident. It tarnishes her
image with non believers. But you know, she's media savvy.
She knows how to make everyone excited about God and
her own self, and so people just keep coming to her.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
The magic recipe right there.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
God and me, Yeah, that's it. In the nineteen thirty
she marries and divorces again within a few years, but
established works hard to establish her church, which she names
the International Church of the Four Square Gospel. Is that
a thing?

Speaker 4 (46:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Four square? That's not just the game, truly.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Well, it can be anything you want it to be.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Great, So the church now does go by the four
Square Church, and it's actually still operational in the Angelus
Temple today. Outside of the Temple, she has dozens of
affiliated congregations spread across the US and makes use of
them during the Great Depression to distribute clothing, food, and
assistance to tens of thousands of struggling families. So she's like,

(46:36):
sorry about that one thing, I'm going to make up
for it with.

Speaker 5 (46:38):
This other thing.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Great, and then we'll take it.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, her humanitarian work softens the public image. Behind the scenes,
she is still suffering from a lack of sleep and
a dependence on pills. She's traveling with her sermons devoted
to the cause.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
I mean touring back then happens.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
Suck, well, right, maybe except where don't forget that they
used to put cocaine in soda. So that's true, you know,
depends on what you're into.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, driving around the country and your little un air
conditioned car, I mean out of your mind, teta your
fucking mind.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Let's get the word out.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
So in September nineteen forty four, she fails to show
up at an appearance in Oakland. Oh my god, are
we just did that? Rich and people are immediately concerned.
So on September twenty seventh, nineteen forty four, hotel staff
where she's staying, find in her room. Find her in
her room, alone, in her bed, unresponsive. Amy's declared dead
at fifty three. The causes ruled an accidental overdose of

(47:40):
second all sedative that everyone loved back then. Her premature
passing shocks her followers. She's only fifty three, and the
public like toggles between her professional impact and her personal scandals.
Her body's transported back to Los Angeles, where upwards of
fifty thousand mourners file past her cap How many touched her?

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Do you think doesn't matter if she's dead?

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Okay, well I was really like, I hope they had
hand sanitizer. But that's weird.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
It is.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Finger prints. I'm talking like fingerprints, you know what I mean? No, no, inappropriate.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
The funeral is one of the largest Los Angeles has
ever seen, with traffic jams reported for blocks around Echo Park.
Reporters noted that the grandeur of the Angelus temple, filled
with flowers, white drapery, and music was more like a
pageant than a traditional funeral, and in true Amy spirit,
the affair is a Hollywood type production with genuine religious devotion,

(48:43):
a fitting end for such a theatrical person. And that
is the story of Amy Semple.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
McPherson.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Wow, Wow, what do you think really happened?

Speaker 2 (49:00):
I think she took off with her lover and had
a fucking nice couple of weeks to herself.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
Yeah, yeah, what do you think?

Speaker 3 (49:08):
I love the shack concept. I don't know if you're
really staying with that shack because it also makes it
feel like if it's a shack in the desert, it's
really small. But then the kidnappers have to be in
there with her, so they're all just shoved into nobody's happy, right, Yeah,
just will all suffer out here until your mom says
we can come back to town. Anything's possible, truly with God.

Speaker 5 (49:31):
Not kidding.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Amen. And that is the message that we're trying to
give to everyone tonight. Whatever God you would like that
to be very open, non denominational, but highly religious show. Okay,
we're gonna take a little bit of left turn let's
do it my story. And I don't know if you've

(49:57):
ever seen there's a billboard that is on East Melrose,
almost like almost two virgil and a couple times a
year or I guess once a year, but I notice it.
It doesn't matter. Oftentimes, once a year there will be
a billboard and it's a very small billboard. You wouldn't

(50:19):
notice it. For the La Bug Fair. Have you ever
seen this?

Speaker 2 (50:24):
I've been to the La bug Frair. Yeah, I ate
a chocolate chirp cookie that had crickets in it.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Hell yes, we begin this story. The two thousand and
three is Los Angeles' most prestigious Hollywood event, the Natural
History Museum's annual Bug Fair. That's right, this is a
fucking bug fair. Story of last Joel, I love that.
You know the bug Fair.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
Hell yeah, it's Rad's horrifying, but it's rad.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
So every year, if you don't know, thousands of people
nature enthusiasts and collectors alike flocked to the museum for
this event, featuring workshops, educational exhibits, and a marketplace where
you can buy pretty much any bug related thing imaginable,
including actual bugs. At this bug Fair market go, are

(51:13):
you looking for praying mantis? Why don't you going down
with bug fair? Get a good PRIs. Don't ever tell
you about the fucking time I got a weird feel.
I was sitting in my house at the kitchen table,
and I got a weird feeling and I looked at
my shoulder and there was a fucking praying mantis.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
On my shoulder.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
And this made the exaggeration because I'm a big liar.
But when I turned, when I turned and looked at
this praying mantis, it went its head went like this
like it was also gazing back at me. And then
I screamed and locked it off my shoulder. Oh my god,
it was so fucking scary.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Sounds like Uncanny Valley. Yes, just a stearing into the
fucking eyeballs. Yes of a fucking.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
I'm like, perch, I feel weird. Why do I feel so?

Speaker 4 (52:02):
You?

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I mean, I love them, I just don't like surprise bugs.
I can deal with bugs, but not surprise bugs.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
And what is a more surprising bug than a fucking
praying mantis? For God's sakes, head, separate head, body looking
at you, I'm thinking, what it's weird? Praying hands more
religion stuff. Okay, you can buy live bugs and you

(52:30):
can buy dead bugs that have been mounted and put
on display. Among the crowd at the seventeenth annual Bugfair
is a man named Ed Newcomer. Writer Jessica Spiert describes
him as quote your typical southern California beach boy end quote.
He's in his thirties. He's a self professed nature lover,

(52:51):
but he's not here for Bugfair fun like everybody else
you see. Ed is a rookie special agent with US
Fish and Wildlife Service is tasked with fighting the illegal
wildlife trade. He sees his work is very important and
rightfully so. Special Agent Newcomer has said, quote, there's really
no more innocent victim than our natural environment. You know,

(53:14):
a bear can't call nine one one and say that
someone came and poached her cub. What if he could? Hello?
Who is this Is this a prank?

Speaker 8 (53:28):
Call?

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Wow? My baby?

Speaker 3 (53:32):
You said a scene did it?

Speaker 2 (53:34):
It's me?

Speaker 5 (53:35):
I'm the problem.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
You immediately accept responsibility.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
It's all on me. I'll take it.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
We're still middle of the quote. So it's really important
to have law enforcement officers out there who are willing
to take the time to try to solve wildlife crime end.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Quote is it hot too? Like, what's the deal?

Speaker 3 (53:56):
We'll take it. Well, we're gonna look at him one
second and one second. So Ed got into this game
because he thought it he'd be investigating the poaching of
big exotic animals like, of course, bears or elephants or
jungle cats. He never knew there was a market for
dead butterflies, but it turns out that there is, and
it's a huge trade rare, pinned and mounted butterflies, including

(54:21):
endangered and protected ones. Those trade for small fortunes in
that quaint little corner of the black market. So Special
Agent Newcomer has gotten a tip that one of the
world's most notorious butterfly dealers, the quote Indiana Jones of butterflies.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Come on. He gave that to himself for sure.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
You know, the whole butterfly community they got together on
a conference call and they said, we're naming this motherfucker
that Indiana Jones of Butterflies has a booth at the
Bugfair this year, and along with the legal specimen that
he will have on sale, there may be some illegal

(55:04):
insect contraband available for his most trusted patrons. For years,
this smuggler has evaded authorities in the illegal bug and
insect trade. But now Special Agent Newcomer is on the case,
and he's determined to bring this entire, dirty, yet incandescently
beautiful enterprise down town to China Town. This is the

(55:29):
story of Special Agent Ed Newcomer's investigation into butterfly trafficker
Yoshi Kojima.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Whoa so this.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Main sources used in this story today are the book
Winged Obsession, The Pursuit of the World's most Notorious Butterfly Smuggler.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Oh, a whole book by Jessica Speirt Great, she.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Wrote a whole book on it. Also episode three oh
five of My favorite podcast Criminal entitled The Butterfly Smuggler,
and Ed Newcomer's own podcast series. Special Agent Ed Newcomber
has a podcast and it's called Nature's Secret Service.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Okay, everyone's got a podcast these days, the Nature Guy.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
And they were like, oh oh yeah, and this one
big butterfly has a podcast too, so please listen to
her side of the story. Okay, so we're back at
the seventeenth the annual bugfairgent. Special Agent Newcomer is not
just on the case. First of all, he's a rookie.
This is is the first case, so it's his name

(56:37):
is literal. He's a newcomer. He's not just on the case.
He's working. He's in sorry left the page.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Undercover.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yes, he's undercover, Thank you so much. God damn it.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
I can't believe I got that. I was.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
I just wanted to say in disguise so badly, and
I'm like, that's not the correct term for the poet.

Speaker 5 (56:59):
Trench coat.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Got a weird metal arm that comes out and grabs
a bug, takes it back.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Inspector gadget, the inspector gadget of the butterfly world.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
So so Ed is there to get eyes on fifty
three year old Yoshi Kojuma. But he is not working alone.
He also has a wired informant in the crowd today,
who Ed hopes will catch Yoshi's saying something damning on tape.
The US Fish and Wildlife Agency has had Yoshi on

(57:33):
their radar for years, so Ed already knows a little
bit about him. He knows Yoshi has homes in both
Kyoto and Los Angeles. He's always traveling back and forth
between them. He knows that in the decade or so
that Yoshi's been legally active in this trade. He has
also been suspected of some very unethical and outright illegal practices.
For example, it's believed that Yoshi harvested butterfly species in

(57:58):
such huge numbers in the Sierra Nevada Mountains that experts
were afraid entire local populations of butterflies were wiped out.

Speaker 5 (58:08):
Dude, yeah wow, but he.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Just loved them so much. How big is that net?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
For real?

Speaker 3 (58:17):
He's also suspected of targeting very rare protected butterflies in
national parks around the US, but there's never been a
serious enough investigation to lead into any to lead to
any criminal charges for it. But that's all going to
change at the two thousand and three bug fair?

Speaker 5 (58:34):
Right, what a fun job?

Speaker 4 (58:36):
Like?

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Why didn't they tell you out of high school that
you could walk around a bug fair in disguise as
your job? Like I maybe would have gone to college, yes.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Instead of just oh, study homework, no science, it's like
no communications.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
No, I would not think find a bug fief?

Speaker 3 (58:52):
How about bug disguises? How about the real shit? How
about wired informants? Or the first time I've that I
was like, was that wired informant like you're just a
very curious second grader. That was like what kind of
infect do you have? And it's like, got you, motherfucker.
We'll get to that part, okay. So Special Agent Newcomer

(59:18):
will later be quoted as saying, quote, when you arrest
these people and they end up in front of a judge,
they tell the judge I'm an animal lover. I just
got a little carried away and nothing pisses me off more.
They are not animal lovers. They are either in it
for the money or they're in it for the obsession
of collecting and owning and having and controlling.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Whoa and hard boiled.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Yes, this is his first case and he's fucking had it.
It's like you love a man with passion, but butterfly passion.
Oh my god. So Special Agent Newcomer is strolling through
the bug fare incognito with whistling real loud because this

(01:00:03):
is his first case. He's wearing his dockers and his
braided belt and a nice golf shirt. He's not a cop.
He's not a cop. And then he finally gets oh, sorry,
I think we have a picture of ed newcomers, don't
we eat oh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Yes, what a hero.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Right, and then Ed finally gets a visual of his target.
It's Yoshi. He's at his booth and Ed doesn't think
he looks particularly criminal, No, he doesn't. He's a dad.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
He's got a dad hat on Hawaiian shirt.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
He's just kind of a party dad.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Yeah, with a couple of bugs. He loves bugs. It's
all above table about the table, the.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Above, a very very low table. Okay, So he gets
his he sees, he puts eyes on, he realizes who
he's dealing with. What are you laughing about?

Speaker 5 (01:00:58):
Puts eyes on?

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Does anyone have eyes on? So, As author Jessica Spiart reports,
Yohi's staple outfit consists of a fanny pack, loose khaki pants,
and either a Hawaiian shirt or a polo shirt. And
this is this specifically usually stained out shut out shut.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
I mean that I would be like, that's a cop,
for sure, you know, dressing like a cop a art.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
But also it's just so rough for your like known
outfit to include the staining. It's just like she usually
wore a black pants, black shirt, and a ton of
white dog hair. Just like you didn't have to say
the last part about me. You didn't have to say it.
God damn it. She's always asking for a lip roller
for some reason.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
It's a subtle dig, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
It hurts, just like a stain. So Special Agent Newcomer
has a visual on the enemy. He keeps his distance.
He plays a cool on the sidelines, but he watches
intently as his informant approaches Yoshi's booth. Heym my thirt.

Speaker 5 (01:02:11):
Also, how subtle is this intent?

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Watch?

Speaker 5 (01:02:13):
Because I bet he's not good yet at it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Just like pacing back and for it, rubbing his chin.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
The only guy sweating at the bugfair.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
I just love bugs. Sorry, dude, I just love bugs.
So Ed will say about the informant. I saw him
go talk to Yoshi a few times, but every time
I would check in with the informant, he would say
he won't talk to me. He won't talk to me,
He just won't say anything. And then the informant just
got more and more jittery. It definitely was not going well.

(01:02:43):
So I decided, what the hell, I'm going to go
talk to this guy. So Special Agent is like out
of my way, eight year old, I'm going to take
care of this So Newcomer isn't exactly prepared for this moment.
He's new to the case, he hasn't had the opportunity
to learn much about butterflies, but he's quick on his feet.

(01:03:03):
He strolls up to the booth and introduces himself as
Ted Nelson. Okay, yes, someone's been taking UCB classes, Ted Nelson,
you say? He then says he's a recently retired businessman
who sold off his father's company and now has some
money to burn, and he has a new fascination with

(01:03:24):
rare insects, you know, that casual conversation you make at
the bugfair Ed looks through Yoshi's display cases, all legal
insects that are there to buy and sell. He pretends
to be amazed, and this feeds Yoshi's egos so well
that he can't help but show Ted Nelson something that

(01:03:46):
he's been keeping in the back, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
It is a.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Massive since six inch horned dynasty beetle living a living
look at it. Look at it, also known as the
rhinoceros beetle.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
So what if that was on your shoulder and you
looked over, you'd be like, what is it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
What do you have to tell me? So because it's
it said Marion rode in here that this was a
six inch beetle. I immediately turned and googled what is six
inches long?

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Okay, it's not a dick joke.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
It's so blame of you and cheap of you. It's
not the first thing that came up in AI. We're fucked.
I mean, we're fucked beyond belief. I don't have to
tell you guys that this is instead of a dick joke,

(01:04:51):
it's just about how fucked we are with AI. Because
here's what the AI answer I got. There's a quad
of like four pictures that's say, common things that are
sink six inches long, and no joke. The first picture
is a baseball. It's a base ball. It's a base ball.

Speaker 5 (01:05:09):
That's not right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
That's the first fucking picture, an American base ball. And
then it says under that quote, items around six inches
long include the width of a dollar bill. The width
of a dollar bill. There are companies using AI to

(01:05:32):
build things like airplanes and rockets and engines and shit
like that. The width of a dollar bill is six inches.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Even we know that's not right, and we didn't go
to college.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Even math dipshits like ourselves. It literally says the width
of a dollar bill, some pens, certain chefs noves, and
half a standard twelve inch ruler. Thanks so much, thank you,
thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
Great, Now I know exactly what I'm dealing with.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
That was just rude.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
A baseball.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Some chef nights to give you a six inch chef night, yes,
not some.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Some too bad. There's ones that are this long, some pens,
but not those ones you get when you're a tourist
that have they're real long because you went to New
York City, the Big Apple.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
And turn it upside down and she's naked.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Right, there's your six inches right there. You made me
do that. You forced me to do it. I don't
want to work blue, you want me to. Okay, We're
done with that part. Never forget the six inch rhinoceros.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Never will, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
So, especially Agia Newcomer, suspects that this dollar bill wide
beetle was smuggled into the US from its native South America,
almost certainly without the necessary permits. But that's a minor
violation of US Department of Agriculture rules. So ED doesn't
think that that will be enough to take down a
smuggler on the level of Yoshi, who is rumored to

(01:07:21):
trade in much much rarer, more highly protected specimens. But
Yoshi's showing Ed this beetle is huge for this investigation
because it shows that that Yoshi has now made a
connection with aspiring collector Ted Nelson. So so Ted Nelson
thinks Yoshi for his time, does a casual loop around

(01:07:42):
the bugfair do do do, and then when it's almost
closing time, circles back to Yoshi's booth, only to find
Yoshi waiting there with a box which he presents to
his new friend Ted Nelson, and inside there are thirteen
dead pins and mounted butterflies, which Yoshi says are to quote,

(01:08:04):
start your collection. Whoa there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
That's so insulting to do that in a natural history museum,
like go to a cafe. You know what I mean?
It's like double bad.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Yes, it's pretty shitty. So now special Agent Newcomer knows
for sure he has made a connection. And even better,
Yoshi wrote his email address inside that box, and so
Ed now has a direct line to him to one
of the biggest insects smugglers that they know about. So
Ed still plays a cool he doesn't reach out to

(01:08:36):
Yoshi right away.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Oh right, yeah, yeah, that's how you do it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
You have to wait five days.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Five I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
In smuggling, you have to wait for the quarantine.

Speaker 5 (01:08:49):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
So then he doesn't reach out to him right away.
He goes and listens to the recordings that the informant captured,
and in them, Yoshi isn't revealing much, although there is
one bombshell. Ed listens as Yoshi brags about how at
the airport he pretends to work for National Geographic and
tells customs agents that he provides bugs for their documentaries

(01:09:12):
and they're all cast. It's like I had auditions. This
rhinoceros feedle was incredible. Really got that it factor, Yoshi says,
tells the informant this lie works like a charm, and
the airport officials usually let him go without scrutinizing his collection.
And then he also brags about out smarting US fish

(01:09:33):
and wildlife investigators. And that's the part where Special Agent
Newcomer just slides his headphones off and he eds hails,
and then he goes, now it's personal. This is for
my movie, Special Agent Ed Newcomer. Nobody gets to steal it. Okay.

(01:09:55):
So he sits tight for about a week and then,
acting as Ted Nelson, he sends Yoshi and email asking
for help identifying some of the butterflies. Yo she gave
him as a gift. The men exchange some emails. They
then they talk on the phone, and then Yoshi sets
up an in person meeting at the Starbucks near the
intersection of Venice and Robertson in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
They took my advice and went to a cafe. It's
really sweirt.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
They literally what if this whole thing is just turns
into you dictating what the story is. This is the
newest version of AI. It's called self podcasting. So this
is that Starbucks on Venice and Robertson that has very
little parking. It's almost like a trader Joe's in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
M hm.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
The vibe is off there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
So Ed it is incredibly nervous for this meeting because
he's wearing a wire this time, and he's doing everything
that he can not to blow his cover. He needs
to say all the right things that Ted Nelson would
say while simultaneously pushing for you know, more information and
incriminating information, but not so hard that Yoshi would become suspicious.

(01:11:07):
But Yoshi immediately starts asking a ton of questions, and
they're really prying questions, and they seem to be geared
at suessing out whether or not Ted Nelson.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Is a cop.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
ED has prepared for this though. He's got his full
Ted Nelson backstory memorized, and he even has a Ted
Nelson Costco card in his wallet just in case anybody
looks in there. You gotta get the Costco card you
want to prove something. Yeah, I actually have done that
though when you like, I don't have my license, oh,

(01:11:40):
just like, well, I do have this Costco card. I'm
a Bold member. Will that get me through security?

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
So ED newcomer will later say about this meetup quote,
I was sweating like crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Real chill.

Speaker 5 (01:11:59):
That's the thing you don't want to do is sweat like.

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Crazy sweat while wearing a wire.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Yeah, But in the end, Yoshi seems to buy that
was the whole quote. By the way, I just thought
that was good to put that in there. In the end,
Yoshi seems to buy Ted Nelson's whole story and offers
to teach him all about identifying, mounting and collecting rare
butterflies so that the two of them can get into
business together. It's a lucrative business. Yoshi claims that he

(01:12:27):
nets anywhere between eight hundred and ten thousand dollars per butterfly,
depending on how rare they are. Damn yes, so Ed
suspects Yoshi sees his new friend Ted Nelson as a
useful fall guy in this very high stakes game of
illegal insect trading. So basically, because the two men come

(01:12:51):
up with this arrangement where Ted will post bugs and
butterflies for sale on eBay and Yoshi will act as
the supplier, which also enables Yoshi to keep his hands clean,
and it'll all go on Ted if the ship goes down.
So Ed tries to cement this relationship, but it's clear
that Yoshi's trust is fragile because in one of their

(01:13:14):
earlier meetings, Yoshi walks Ted out to his car, but
then circles the car completely, looking into the windows and
checking the license plate and even examining the front grill.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Well, it's not going to say his real name on it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
I was like, what if it's down here?

Speaker 5 (01:13:28):
Yeah, where do you put your name on your car?

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
Way down under the front that's right. Yeah, just put
my initials up under there. Uh so, Ed remembers quote,
it would have been very unnatural for me not to
have been like, what the hell are you doing? That's
the whole quote. I did it again. Sorry that was
too short. Sorry. So he asks Yoshi what's going on.

(01:13:53):
Yoshi says he's looking for cameras, a police gun, or
any other sign that Ted Nelson is working undercover. Ed
laughs it off, but he can't deny that Yoshi is
clearly a serious dealer. So soon after this, Yoshi returns
to Japan. But he calls emails and skypes because it's

(01:14:13):
two thousand and three with Ted Nelson regularly, and on
these calls he feeds Ed's ongoing investigation by bragging about
carrying an American passport under a name that's not his own.
He's just chit chatting and incriminating the fuck out of
himself left and right. He shares details on how he

(01:14:34):
actually ships his butterflies to buyers, and he even boasts
about how he has a network of collectors all around
the world to capture specimens locally and send them to him.

Speaker 5 (01:14:44):
Dude, keep your mouth shut.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
No, he can't just like that. He's just he's having
a great time. He even shares tips with Ted Nelson
on how to avoid getting nabbed by the US Fish
and Wildlife agents. But months are going by and Yoshi
hasn't sent ted any endangered butterflies, which means it doesn't
have any kind of evidence or any of the evidence

(01:15:09):
that he needs. So he tries to push things along
and build goodwill by posting flattering comments about Yoshi on
various bug trading websites, and Ed thinks this will make
it look like this is good policing. Yeah, he'll make
it look like he's helping out Yoshi's business, because then
that'll be good for his business. But actually it backfires

(01:15:32):
and Yoshi cuts Ted off because he thinks the attention
is going to put the heat on both of them.

Speaker 5 (01:15:37):
Right, and then connect them online.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Yeah, on bug websites on all those parts, literally only
that eight year old infeman and four of his friends.
So now Ed tries to real Yoshi back in by
creating fake eBay listings and having his fish and Wildlife
service colleagues bid on them, hoping Yoshi will feel like
he's missing out on all the sales. Ted Nelson is

(01:16:00):
doing solo. Okay, that's smart, right, Fomo. Not only does
Yoshi take the bait, Oh, not only does Yoshi not
take the bait. He sees Ted's listings as direct and
hostile competition, and he gets so angry that he reports
Ted Nelson as a potential smuggler to the US Fish
and Wildlife Service. Wow, yep, sall one big circle. M

(01:16:28):
So now special agent, newcomer who's become known around the
office as the butterfly Agent.

Speaker 5 (01:16:33):
Oh so mad.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Feels like his case is just imploded because, as anyone
who deals in the illegal insect trade knows, many of
us do, once someone gets reported to the US FAWS,
I'm assuming that's the that's the initials. The assumption is
that an agent will then reach out and either bust
them or try to flip them as an informant, which

(01:16:57):
means that the extremely cautious Yosh she won't come anywhere
near his fake friend Ted Nelson.

Speaker 5 (01:17:04):
Now right, oops.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
So Ed's bummed, but he is not going to give
up completely. Instead, he reluctantly sets this butterfly case aside
and he takes on a new case. He grows a
handlebar mustache, and he goes undercover as a guy that
gambles with domesticated pigeons. What you gotta move on, You

(01:17:27):
just gotta move on.

Speaker 5 (01:17:28):
Okay, hold on?

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Are the gamblers the pigeons?

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Are the pigeons? The monetary.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
Foxcars.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
Maybe a little hat on that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Was supposed to be a pigeon sound, but I got excited. Wow,
gotta handlebar mustache.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
You gotta have the handlebar mustache to be believed in
the pigeon game.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
People are like, you are not here to bet on birds.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see your mustache. Yes you are, Yes,
you are. Uh. It's basically The Departed with animals at
this point. So then a year later, in two thousand
and six, it's time for the La Bugfair again eighteenth Annuel.

(01:18:11):
That was the theme song, and Ed hears that Yoshi
is going to be back in La again. So he
remembers thinking, quote, heck, we got to give it one
more try. Heck, oh, sorry, that's not the whole thing.
Here's the whole quote. Heck, we got to give it
one more try. Right, We're gonna give it our all
end quote Heck yeah, man, heck yeah. So this year

(01:18:35):
Ed's plan is very simple. He's just gonna quote bump
into Yoshi at the bugfair as Ted Nelson. And then
when he does and this really happens, Yoshi looks nervous
because again he not only turned Ted Nelson into the authorities,
but he also is worried, probably that Ted is now
an informant himself. But Ed doesn't miss a beat. He

(01:18:57):
tells Yoshi it's great to see him and that he
really owe in because some quote asshole turned him into
the US Fish and Wildlife Service agents even got a
search warrant for his house, but thanks to Yoshi's advice,
he'd already hidden everything incriminating, and the investigators walked away
empty handed. Ed later remembers, quote Yoshi's whole demeanor changed instantly.

(01:19:21):
He was so thrilled that he that he had given
me advice that helped me end quote. So Yoshi asks
Ted to lunch, and there he quizzes him on where
he's been getting his butterflies lately. Ed explains, lying that
he now has a German supplier, but that he's not
happy with the condition of the butterflies he's been receiving.

(01:19:41):
They often arrive with damaged wings and antenna.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
Can't have that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
It's just so weird. It's just so weird. So Yoshi
offers to step in and work with Ted once again.
They make plans to skype when Yoshi's back in Japan, like,
let's make plans for you to see a movie a
picture that moves every four seconds of me month owner,

(01:20:14):
and we are back so Ted can check out his
stock and then they can go from there. So soon
these two men fall back into constant communication. Yoshi offers
to supply Ted with all the all kinds of rare butterflies.
He claims to have access to some Queen Alexandra's bird wings.

(01:20:37):
Those are the largest butterflies on Earth.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
That's right, six bigger than six inches there.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
The wingspan is afoot. It's two rhinoceros beetles wide no
no, no no no, no a foot wide.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):
They're native to Papua New Guinea. And that's the last
fact I have about them, Queen. No, sorry, I have
one more. They're so big that when these butterflies fly,
they're often mistaken for birds. But they're also one of
the rarest butterflies in the world, so they're on the

(01:21:14):
endangered species list. And this makes capturing and selling them
highly illegal. The Associated Press reports quote, there is protected
as a snow leopard.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Oh wow, right, who would you rather run into than
the jungle?

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
What would be great is if the bird wing butterfly
landed on your head and then it looked like a hat.
Oh my god, so modern? What there's any haberdashers in
the audience tonight. I have a copyright on that idea,
but I'll never make it. But you should, then I'll

(01:21:53):
sue you. A single mounted Queen Alexander His bird wing
butterfly sells for thousands of dollars on the black market.
So obviously Yoshi now fully trusts Ted Nelson because over
the next two months he express mails him around forty

(01:22:14):
different butterflies, including two Queen Alexander's bird wings, and those
cost him eighty five hundred dollars. And how much is
that in today's money?

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Two thousand and six, two thousand, yes, okay, and.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Twelve fourteen thousand dollars, so close.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
I'm never satisfying.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
You're getting a little bit of applaus for being kind
of at.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
Least I'm not wasn't laughed at this time, because I
have been laughed at by many audiences.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
Sometimes we go in the complete opposite direction as we
go lower doesn't make sense.

Speaker 9 (01:22:49):
We should do just a whole like everybody vote yeah,
because this show isn't long enough, all right, So the
butterflies in total are all forty cost undercover ed somewhere
between fort oh sorry no, fourteen the dashes for something else.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
They cost it fourteen thousand dollars, which is twenty two
thousand dollars in today's money. You're welcome. So now Ed
finally has the concrete evidence he needs for his investigation.
He has those butterflies, He has endless recordings and skype
conversations and phone calls that outline in rich detail, indisputable
criminal activity. But Yoshi's in Japan, and to make an arrest,

(01:23:35):
of course, Ed needs Yoshi to be on us soil,
so he has a plan. It finally dawns on him
that quote. And this is the part where the story
changes for me, and I don't like it anymore. That's
very sad, because it finally dawns on Ed newcomer, that quote.
Sometime during those calls, I realized Yoshi's got some type

(01:23:56):
of an attraction toward me. So at first he simply
brushed off Yo's Yoshi's ace advances, but now he decides
he's going to use them. Ed secures an arrest warrant
without Yoshi knowing, and then, as Ted Nelson, he hints
that the two of them should go on a date
when Yoshi's back in California, and Yoshi takes the bait.

(01:24:18):
So there is a little bit of like making a
friend and talking about a mutual interest. Oh my god,
I love dead bugs too. This is magical, But it's
a fucking It's a special agent in disguise.

Speaker 5 (01:24:33):
No, what a bummer.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
It gets worse. On July thirty first, two thousand and six,
three years after Ed and Yoshi first crosspaths at the
two thousand and three Bug Fair, Yoshi flies into Los
Angeles and is immediately arrested on federal wildlife smuggling charges. Well,
it gets more heartbreaking because hours later, while he's in custody,
Yoshi's eyes light up when he sees Ted Nelson arriving

(01:24:58):
to bail him out of jail. No, but in fact
it is special Agent.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Ed newcomer took his mustache off.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
He's like rip and these sideburns are fake too. Motherfucker,
Ed says, of this quote, and then he looked down
and he saw the Special Agent badge attached to my
belt right by my holster. He says, have you been
with fish and wildlife the whole time I've known you?
He kind of put his head down. He didn't say

(01:25:26):
anything else. He never asked me any questions about how
it all happened. It was weird. We had this relationship
and then I arrested him and the relationship was over.
End quote.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
That's sad.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
It sucks. Yeah, aside from the butterflies and the wildlife,
I know guys that have done shit like this, separate
from the insects, right like, Yeah, I didn't realize. I
just skype with you every Now I.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
Have a girlfriend. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:26:02):
What? Okay, we'll talk about that later. In the end,
Yoshi Kojuma pleads guilty to seventeen counts of selling and
smuggling and dangered species and is sentenced to twenty one
months in prison, and he's fined almost thirty nine thousand dollars,
which Ed says has yet to be paid, and when

(01:26:22):
he's released in two thousand and eight, Yoshi is sent
back to Japan. It seems that Yoshi has never spoken
publicly about his arrest or dealings in the butterfly smuggling business.
But when Ed Newcomer is interviewed by our friend Phoebe
Judge on criminal he tells her that in twenty fifteen,
he busts a twenty five year old smuggler at Lax who,

(01:26:45):
among many other species, is carrying bird wing butterflies in
his suitcase. And Ed says, quote out of nowhere, he goes, hey,
have you heard of Yoshi Kojuma? And I said, yeah,
I've heard of Yoshi And he goes, he's my mentor.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
Fuck you?

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
Double bird into your face?

Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
As he gets zip tied. That's bug smuggling. Man. You
did not have to pretend it was love. It was
just bug smuggling.

Speaker 5 (01:27:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:20):
This is Ed Newcomer's very first case as a US
Fish and Wildlife Service investigator, So maybe we can forgive
his ungodly transgression against the human heart. Fast forward two
decades now it's twenty twenty one. Special Agent Ed Newcomer
is about to retire when he is handed one last assignment.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
Did you say? Fast forward two decades it's twenty twenty one.

Speaker 3 (01:27:44):
Don't you dare confront my map?

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
Listen. Why do we care about numbers? Now?

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
So I don't care. I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
Let's fast forward two decades minus four years plus one year.
I think, sorry, who's good at math? So he's handed
his final case, which and then in my movie Special
Agent ed Newcomer, it gets slapped down on his desk
and then he picks it up and he opens it,
and then he takes some headphones off and he exhales,

(01:28:26):
and he says, I'm too old for this shit, and
then we get sued by Danny Glover. So this is
a case that takes place in Alpine, California, where a Yes,
so you guys you already know about this story. A
construction worker named Eddie shows up to work one day

(01:28:49):
and discovers a dog abandoned in a crate in the
parking lot. But when he goes to check if the
dog's okay, he looks inside and it's a baby jaguar.
Why you know, Alpine shit? A six week old Alpine
sorry jaguar cub Alpine born and bred jaguar cub.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
Oh Man, what a find like? I never find anything good?
So good.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
What am I going to be on the jaguar distribution
system exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
Vince can't say no. If I accidentally stumble upon it,
it looks it's ours. Now.

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
We found a baby jaguar. We keep a baby jaguar.
So it turns out someone left this baby jaguar in
this exact spot, hoping that the nearby animal sanctuary lions,
tigers and bears would come and find him and take
him in. And that is exactly what happens. He's taken in,

(01:29:52):
he's cleaned up, and they name him Eddie. And that's
just a very cute, coincidental name. Because this is le
case agent Ed newcomer is ever going to work, and
he takes it very seriously. As we know he says
about this case quote, whenever I had the chance to
work on a case that involved live wildlife, particularly babies,

(01:30:13):
I tried to make it a priority. So this was
a case I was going to close before I retired,
no question. So end quote. So Ed tracks down the
dealer who first sold Eddie the baby jaguar. As it
turns out she did it through her OnlyFans account.

Speaker 5 (01:30:32):
I didn't know they did that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
You can, and you should and fucking power to all
women everywhere. So look, get an OnlyFans account, sell illegal animals,
exotic endangered animals on them. Get your bag, girl, do
what you gotta do. Just make sure you're ahead of
the games, Missy Elliott likes to say. In twenty twenty two,

(01:30:56):
this woman is arrested and pleads guilty to one felony
caut of trafficking and endangered species under the Endangered Species
Act in California. You can be fined up to five
hundred thousand dollars for this and given between five and
twenty years jail time. Dude, depending on the law you break.

(01:31:17):
But I did get that those numbers from the AI
answer on Google, so take it with a grain assault.
The good news is Eddie the Jaguars living his best
life at the Lions, Tigers and Bears Sanctuary. Up, Oh, Eddie,
You're so cute. And with this case closed, Special Agent

(01:31:41):
Ed Newcomer, who kickstarted his career by catching the Indiana
Jones of butterflies, closes it by bringing justice to a
baby jag Yua. And that is the story of Special
Agent Ed Newcomer's crusade to bring down butterfly smuggler Yoshi coaching.

Speaker 6 (01:31:57):
Yeah, it's we have time for a hometown. Yeah okay, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
Article, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's up.

Speaker 3 (01:32:16):
What's up, savor, gentlemen, that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
Travis Kelsey of podcasting.

Speaker 3 (01:32:25):
That's right about that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
Uh, with that, I will stand right over there.

Speaker 3 (01:32:32):
Okay, So choose wisely.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
Okay, cheers, honestly, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
Oh you're gonna choose, so we've got so you can
keep doing that. But we've got some rules to tell you,
and these are important, and I think I'm going to
move this rule up to number one. If you're too
drunk to tell your story, just write it in and
then say in the head in the subject line, I
was too drunk to tell my story in San Diego,

(01:32:57):
but I'd love for you to read it on the
minniesot because we'll fucking do it. But if you're drunk,
shut the fuck up, because there's a bunch of people
who have really well rehearsed stories and hometowns and they
got it going on. Okay. Also, your story has to
have a beginning, middle, and end, and it needs to

(01:33:19):
be local. San Diego would be beautiful.

Speaker 10 (01:33:23):
I don't know sounis Okay, rather than that, don't push
it because and we're just telling you that as your friends,
the audience will absolutely attack you and tear your part outside.

Speaker 3 (01:33:34):
And now it is time for a hometown.

Speaker 2 (01:33:37):
You're picking this time. Remember I gave it up?

Speaker 3 (01:33:41):
Did you really give it up?

Speaker 5 (01:33:43):
Doing it anymore?

Speaker 3 (01:33:45):
Well? How about right down the center, right there, the
lone person.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
Yes, yes, yes, you're the only one.

Speaker 3 (01:33:56):
It's just you.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
Go, go, go go elevents.

Speaker 3 (01:34:07):
Yes, this is the walk of the hometown teller.

Speaker 8 (01:34:12):
It takes love, but it's worth Just keep it moving,
keep it moving. Stand right over here.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
Jennifer's here, everyone, It's Jennifer. Everybody, Jennifer holld this.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
You can't have notes.

Speaker 3 (01:34:35):
Stand here, you don't need notes. Hold your notes.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
You can do it, Okay, Jennifer.

Speaker 3 (01:34:44):
Where are you from?

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
I am from San Diego.

Speaker 4 (01:34:46):
I live in San Marcos.

Speaker 1 (01:34:48):
Okay you like that?

Speaker 3 (01:34:49):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
Great?

Speaker 4 (01:34:50):
Great?

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Great?

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:34:52):
Sadly, this is not a San Marcos story, Okay. It
is uh southern California. I grew up in Upland, California,
and this is a story of a young, sweet baby
angel who was taken at the age of seventeen high school.
I was a junior in nineteen eighty four. She was

(01:35:16):
a class of nineteen eighty three, and she was lured
by her friend's ex boyfriend into a garage where her
name is Anna, Anna Marie, not going to give her
last name, And she was lured in by a friend

(01:35:38):
of her ex boyfriends into her garage where the ex boyfriend,
who was also a senior in high school, strangled her
with an extension court. Very sad, So keep an eye
on your girls. Make sure they're not in bad relationships.
She was buried three blocks from my home in what

(01:36:03):
is now the two ten freeway that goes across Nineteenth
and Mountain in Upland. And after about four or five
six weeks, the guy that lured her into this felt
guilty about the situation and that he was involved in
and confessed to the police. Her body was exhumed and

(01:36:27):
she was identified by her teeth, and I, just being
the mother of a daughter, I can't even imagine what
her parents went through. This happened in April of eighty three.
She was supposed to graduate in June.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
Very sad.

Speaker 4 (01:36:44):
Yeah, it's very unfortunate. He the kid went to jail.
I looked to figure out where he went. I how
long he served, I don't know, but I'm not going
to share his name because.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
You know, they don't deserve it. But thank god, amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:37:03):
But to Anna Marie, we still think of you. She
was the year ahead of me. She still thought of
a friend of mine. Did a blog matter, she's a writer,
and she did a big tribute to her, which was wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:37:16):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
Oh my god, thank you beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:37:19):
That's nice, Jennifer. Everybody, that's your report.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
Oh my god, like the best hug I've ever fucking
had in my life. It's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:37:30):
I m.

Speaker 3 (01:37:33):
Thank you so much for being here. Great job, San Diego.
We've done it, you guys. We made it. We finally
did it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:43):
And thank you for coming out to see us after
all these years off the road. This has been so
amazing and special to see so many, so many of
our friends on this tour. So thank you guys so
much for coming and supporting us.

Speaker 3 (01:37:59):
Yeah, we've been here for We've come to San Diego
many a time on tour. We've always had an incredible
time with you guys. It means the world that you
show up and that you support this show. You guys
have given us a dream life and we thank you
so much from the bottom of our hearts for it.
It's incredible and they do and it's because of you, guys,

(01:38:24):
so thank you so much. Thank you for creating the
Murderino community, which is such a beautiful thing. It's a
time in this country where we need community more than everything,
and you guys have it with each other and for
each other, and please use it and please stay sexy.
And thank you San Diego.

Speaker 7 (01:38:46):
Thank you to see Elvis, Do you Want a Cookie?

Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
This has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 2 (01:38:59):
Our senior produce sir is Molly Smith and our associate
producer is Tessa Hughes.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
Our editor is Aristotle lass Vedo.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.

Speaker 3 (01:39:07):
Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:39:13):
And follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye,

All Episodes

518 - Live at the San Diego Civic Theatre (San Diego Night 1)

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}518 - Live at the San Diego Civic Theatre (San Diego Night 1)