Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Nicco Annan. Join us as the legendary Nicco Annan recounts his transformative experience playing Uncle Clifford on P-Valley. Nico discusses the challenges and demands of pole dancing, the importance of body positivity, and the vital role of LGBTQ representation. Hear his reflections on embracing one's body with age and the beautiful irony embodied in his character, Uncle Clifford. Tune in for this insightful conversation here on Money Making Conversations Master Class.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're about to make a change in your life
and you feel uncomfortable, that's the best feeling you can
have because for the first time in your life, you'll
make a new decision that's going to be best for
you and not what somebody told you to do. And
that's when all bets are off. Welcome to Money Making
Conversation Masterclass. I'm your host, Rashaan McDonald. Our theme is
(00:22):
there's no perfect time to start following your dreams. I
recognize that we all have different definitions of success. For
you and maybe decide to your HM, it's time to
stop reading other people's success stories to start living your own.
Keep winning. People always talk about their purpose or gifts.
(00:43):
If you have a gift, leave with your gifts and
they'll let your friends, family, or co worker stop you
from planning or living your dreams. My guess is Nathaniel
and Nicole Anden was born on an army base in
Germany to a black Southern woman born and a West
African man from God. Nicole, as he's affectionately known, was
raised in Detroit, Michigan, the Mota City. He dismistifies the
(01:06):
myths around Southern black men, black gay men, and those
identifying in the non binary space and if they live
four lives that they can lead. Nico originated the role
of Uncle Clifford and the popular show Pea Valley and
play that character since twenty eleven. Today, he is the
only character that played Uncle Clifford as well as on
the television show Pea Valley. Pea Valley, If you don't know,
(01:28):
It's an engrossing drama of family, friendship and survival. This
season is ritually crafted. Characters deal with sacrifice, ethical dilemmas, identity, family, love, trust,
and betrayal, while also facing the aftermass of the decisions
from season one. Please work for the money making Conversation
masterclass for the first time, Nico, Aman, how you doing,
(01:48):
my friend.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm great, I'm great. Thank you so much for having
me here. Well, first of all, its first time. Hopefully
won't be the oh.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, no, no no, I'll be mad with you if
you're the last, because you are you are a star.
You are a star. You are an individual. Brother, you
know you're an individual. That Let's let's talk about the character,
because you know in your bio that said you've been
playing this character or character like this since twenty eleven.
So that means that character did not originate on the
(02:16):
television series. I've seen you've been playing it before. That
give us some background history on your character and how
did they get to that point, because, like I said,
you know, because you have some great you know, designs
and your beard and all that stuff that you're not
wearing right now. I have a beard. I remember I
did the movie. They cut my beard a certain way,
and so let's let's talk about that character developed, because
I'm sure it was inspired a lot by your own imagination.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It was inspired a lot by my own imagination, but
primarily from Katori Hall's imagination. Katori Hall as our showrunner
and the creator of this universe that she has here
but here in p Valley. This actually started a little
earlier than twenty eleven. Back in two thousand and yeah.
(03:02):
I was living in New York at the time. I
was an actor, I was choreographing and directing, so I
was doing all three and I was in between gigs
and I received an invitation to go to Victoria's house
and she was having a salon series. She used to
have this thing called black Mondays because in the theater
(03:23):
it's dark on Monday. In theater language, we say it's
black because all the lights are off. And so what
happened was she was she had a writing fellowship at
the Lark Theater Company, It's an off Broadway house in
New York, and through that Salon series, it was a
group of writers, actors, musicians that just got together to
(03:46):
read or talk about their ideas and new material that
they had and a collective so to speak, kind of
like James baldwins or in the Hurston you know, the
Renaissance group back in the day. They were creating their
own version of that. And essentially what happened there was
a lot of networking that was happening across the platform
(04:06):
among all these different black artists. It was not necessarily
somewhat none of us at the time were on Broadway
or had big major motion picture deals. It literally was
about conversation and who is it that has points of
access and just different ideas. So one of her co
writers in the fellowship, Dominique Mariso, who they both since
(04:29):
have been like Tony Award nominations and all these accreditations
and awards decorating them, she said, I'm looking for a
person that kind of houses this feminine energy yet a
masculine energy. I have this idea for this character, and
it was all these things. And when I got there,
there were five pages. Man, there were five pages, and
(04:52):
almost five pages only two of them Uncle Clifford was in.
There was two different scenes and it was a description
of Uncle Clifford emerging from the shadows of the club.
Eyelashes like butterfly wings, and nails like ego talents, Uncle Clifford.
And so that's how it all started.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Now, how tall are you because you're you're you're not
a small guest to six two?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, cool, I'm definitely a man of size. You know
what I'm saying. As they say corn brand fed.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Like I said, you know, because your body was introduced
into pilot, you know what I'm saying. When you was
you know, saw that rear look and everything so so nudity,
that was nudity. How did you feel? Was it an
uncomfortable moment for you? You have to prepare for that moment.
Talk about that in the pilot. See, I think you.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Always have to prepare for any person that you know.
You know that as an artist in general, where you
are using your body to tell the story. You're using
your soul to tell the story. I know as an
artist I am especially I'm gonna tell you this being
a man of a certain age. I think in my
twenties it was it could have maybe messed me up
(06:04):
a little bit more because it was more into the
constraints of what people sought I should be. Right. But
I'm a grown man now, you know, the thirties. You know,
they've taught me how to really be who I am
and to have a level of self acceptance. But in
regards to the show and how the nudity works, it's
the show takes place in this club called the Pink,
(06:27):
and it's a strip club, and so we're talking about
these people who are marginalized and definitely have an idea.
They know what they're doing, and they're working in the
sex work industry. And it just made sense that in
this industry there's a level of awareness and comfortability of
being in one's body and now stepping outside of that.
(06:48):
As the actor and the artist, I had to ask
myself the question, and I proposed it to the producers
in my camera test for the series. The TV series,
it was more so they said, how do I feel
about it. And my question to them was, when was
the last time that you saw a full figured body,
(07:09):
male or female, dark skinned, right, being made love to
on the screen? Right? And I felt that that image
of someone being full, you know, and being shown love,
being made love to, being loving, I thought that that
was just a revolutionary visual.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I always tell people who come on my show and
also the people who watch your listening to show, there's
a process. You know, this is never you know, you
have to meet with your other cast members and said
boundaries about what makes you feel comfortable makes that other
person feel comfortable, so it could feel natural. I'm sure
this happened with you on this series as well. Correct.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Absolutely, we definitely have intimacy coaches, and the intimacy coach
is the interact in the media, in the middle, the
median that works between different actors, the directors, what the
script demands and how do we get there?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And it's really great. So I'm talking to Nico, I'm
calling my friend, you know, uncle Clifford. Uncle Clifford, because
it's somebody who comes into your life super confident, but
also it's surrounded by a world of people, not just women,
but the world of people customers who really don't don't
know what. They live in a fantasy world, and sometime
(08:28):
that fantasy world can be cruel. But I would tell
you this what I really like about this show, p Valley.
You see the word strip, you see the word black,
you just think you gonna see a ton of nudity,
And that is not the case. It's the story, it's
the characters, it's the is the latest the lines talk
about that because that's what people initially think. Correct, The
(08:50):
stereotype is when you hear black club, ship Club, you
hear nudity, n and that is not the case. In fact,
the nudity when I watched the series, it comes so
casual that I don't notice it because I'm so engaged
into the character's storyline. And that's really a blessing, correct Nico.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's more than a blessing. I felt like it's a
necessity in the way that we had to tell the story.
This is definitely I think that Katory really wanted to
make sure that there's definitely the fact that women and
female bodies have really been looked at and used in
a certain way in cinema specifically and over sexualized. But
(09:31):
here in this world. I think that there's something that
we call the female gaze, and that's something that's always
asked of people that are different directors that are coming
on the show. That's something that we think about as
a cast in the female gaze that does not only
pertain to the female body. But how is it that
you can see the world without objectification. I think that
(09:54):
through that space you get to see the athleticism of
these polled answers and to see what it takes to
physically do the things that they are doing to haul
themselves up this pole, to to fly around, to walk
on the ceiling and on clouds. That's actually the big
metaphor for the show, the pole. The pole. There's a
(10:14):
line that always says, sometimes rising feels like falling, and
falling feels like rising. So the pole is actually meant
to be the metaphor for life and in a way
that we as black people, especially Black Southerners, have existed
and made it through the day.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, Nicole, he brought up the poll now oh tearsing
that Keisha, my god, don' don't get you, don't go.
Don't move too fast, because I got to get to them.
Outstanding credits showing and Mercedes. Okay, but let's first go
with Keysha. My my, my, my mind. I'm just talking
(10:53):
from an athletic stample and am I talking from a
sexual stample? What I'm seeing that she does on that
pole it has to be mouth dropping to the cast
and where did they find her? And what is her
background as an athlete? Because she has to have gymnastics
in her background.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Why do you say that because of the fact she's
so comfortable on a poll, She's flexible, she's able to
she's able to manipulate it because I, like I said,
I'm not doing it justice. You have to watch the
series to see what she's able to do. As far
as from a ballerina standpoint, she is really poet and
poetic on that poll. You know where Mercedes is a force.
(11:34):
Not saying she's not sexual, but she's a force. It's
like watching a running back and a wide receiver.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass, hosted by Rashaan MacDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations Dot com and follow Money Making
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
While receiver flows, you know what I'm saying, that's Keith Sean.
A running back can flow too, but it can hit
that hole and if you hit him, then you can
knock you off. That's Mercedes. That's right Mercedes, right, so
and so so you ain't gonna get me, Nico, I
know you're gonna get me. I watched you show.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
No, I'm not trying to get you know What's what's
I love that you are actually saying that you use
the football metaphors and comparisons, and it definitely is accurate
all of the dancers. The thing about it is in
a strip club, every dancer has a different style. Some
of the dancers are like tworkers. So like there's a
(12:40):
group of our core dancers and some of them run
what in the club is called twrktown in talktown, or
like you know, the platform stages that are within the
actual club, not on the main stage with the pole,
and some of the girls who work there like toy.
But then when you talk about Miss Mississippi, who is
played by Shannon Thornton, she is that character is meant
(13:03):
to be like the masterpiece she's based off. She's called
Miss Mississippi because she moves like water, and her moving
like water is rooted in the African deity of Yame
y'all yea y'all, being the goddess of water and of power.
You know, Mercedes is like you mentioned, Mercedes is played
by Brandy Evans. I'm gonna say Brandy Norwood.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Singer.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's not my friend the singer, but my friend the actress,
Miss Brandy Evans, and she her style of dancing is
definitely much more athletic. It's definitely much more physical, and
it also lends to the personality of the dancer, you know,
where there's levels of aggression or where there's level of fluidity.
(13:51):
I think that dance. Being a choreographer and Brandy being
a dancer, and Shannon having danced before. None of them
dance as pole dancers, but we're physical dancers. Ellen Rika Johnson,
who plays All the Night, she has an extensive background
in martial arts, so there was a level of physicality
that all of us had in our bodies. Right then,
(14:14):
what has to happen is that we go through a
training program, we go through boot camp, We literally go
through boot camp, just like all of the Marvel characters.
Just like we need to do an action movie, there's
about three to four months before we actually start filming
that everybody goes to pole classes, you go on to
stretch classes. Got to get your hips open, got to
get the back. You gotta do all the conditioning because
(14:36):
it tears up your hands, your knees, You get a
lot of ruising and things like that. And some of
the girls are definitely sharing some of that background on
social media that you know, you guys get to see
of what it all takes. Because the show and the
world is kind of meant to be our own kind
of urban circus. Solet so to speak, well.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
That terms used actually in this series as well. So
used the Mississippi her character Keishawn's role because she's married
to a guy. I won't give too much of the
story away, but somebody she shouldn't be She shouldn't I
shouldn't use the word married. She's she's living with a
guy who she has a child with that's not creating
a comfortable home life for her. And that slides into
(15:18):
the who I really love this guy who plays the
role of Diamond, you know, it's like, you know, not
often did you see a show where the bouncer is
sensitive but dangerous. You know what I'm saying. You know,
you know, look at Diamond, you know a diamond. You know,
It's like, I feel that I could lose his he
could crush me, but then he can also pick me
(15:40):
up and take me and rescue me at the same
time after he's crushed me, you know what I'm saying, Nico,
So talk about those characters. When you see a character
like a Diamond's character and then then being able to
develop that how how special do you feel in the
role from episode to episode to episode.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I feel, I feel blessed. I feel really I know
that this is a special time as an artist, as
an actor, you don't always get roles that are so
rich and that are really rooted in a level of truth,
that represent your community, that can represent a fraction of
your life that you have been through. I think that
(16:21):
this show, it definitely takes all the different marginalized communities
all and the marginalized within the marginalized. You know. One
of the beautiful things and attractive points to me about
this project is that it wasn't just the women who
come in and out these doors. You talked about the bouncer,
our Diamond. That's the character's name, and Diamond is played
(16:44):
by Tyler Lepley, and Tyler is able to bring a
level of sensitivity as well as complexity to the role,
coming as a former armed officer, the officer of the law,
but armed forces, and what that did to him with
being in the war and that that postpartum that comes
(17:05):
from there. I think that it's also he's a he's
a root man, you know, he's a black man and
a Southern man that was raised in knowing the powers
of the earth and very strong African medicine and how
that works. And sometimes you don't get to see that
(17:25):
in an urban body, you know, in a contemporary body,
like what does that look like? You know, it's not
some kind of whodo hokey magic. It is literally something
that's rooted in tradition, like have you ever swept your
grandmother's foot by mistake? You know what I'm saying. So
that goes over the show.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
You know, left, the left, the person on the floor, okay,
the person on the floor, you.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Know exactly those things, so that those kinds of things
in Southern Southern uh ism are woven into this story,
and that actually is the part of where Katroy started
her writing. Her writing has always used and highlighted Southern
culture and all of its capacities to make it so.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I'll change him. The music is fantastic, the characters are fantastic.
You know when you say Grandma, I'll be remissed, Nicole
if I don't bring up Loretta Devine. Okay, I've even
remiss if I don't bring up that character.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I love this lady. Come on, come on, that's my
girl right there.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Man.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
You know, she started on Netflix's Family Reunion and so
many other series you know, been around. Came from the
University of Houston, back in Houston, Texas, back in the
day a ka true and true. Tell us about absolutely
my friend. I'm Houston, Texas absolutely so seeing her and
seeing her play this this this uh this role which
(18:52):
is as is Isaiah Washington, who was on the first season.
He's from Houston, Texas, Missouri City, which is a suburb
of Houston, Texas. So talk about that relationship and her character.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Working with Loretta Devine, I always say is simply divide.
I had on a vision board to work with her
on I didn't know what project. You know, this was
just something that I just always loved her spirit and
her zeal. When I met her it was even more,
(19:28):
It was even more. She is such a rich treasure,
like she's like a national treasure to to us as
a people. I can't, I can't. I want it to
just say to me, but I don't want to hold
her to myself. When we work together, it is awesome.
It is so much fun. We always have a level.
(19:50):
I tend to do this generally when I'm playing Uncle Quifford.
There's a lot of improv that happens prior to We
always do improv scenes prior to the scene to get
us in the flow because we just want to be
in the moment. I am from Detroit, as you mentioned earlier,
but my family.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Is rooted in the South absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
No, Detroit is just nothing but up South.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yes, So there's a level of comfortability that we have
with one another, and we really just bounce off and
she's able to really just be there and drop in.
Sometimes we actually forget that, you know, we're not really
related in real life. You know, you know, she's amazing cool.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I'm talking to Nico. He's one of the stars and
an incredibly popular series of stars that we're called The
Pea Valley. I always try to educate myself. I always
try to uplift I always try to bring information to
the show that we all need to be aware of.
And I also learned there's a a level of respect
we have to have for everybody. And now in your introduction,
I said, he demystifies the myth around Southern black men,
(21:01):
black gay men, and those identifying in the non binary
space and who live four lives. As we close out
this interview, please explain to us exactly the importance of
that and what are you trying to What am I
trying to say when I say that what I just said.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I think what you are saying to me. How I
receive it is that it is a new day. It
is a time where we regardless of how you identify,
I think it's the time where we can see all
of us well, when we can acknowledge all of us,
and when we can talk about it. I come from
a time from when it used to be the question
(21:41):
of are you sweet or do you have sugar in
your tank? Or back in the day even Red Fox
and saying from the sign, he was like, you know
he's a little m M. You know, there were things
that people always talked about, and I think that the
importance of today is that we really get to be
able to meet each other human being to human being.
(22:05):
The character that I play Uncle Clifford is non binary,
and that's a person who is equally accepting of all
of the things that cannot be held into a restrictive box.
And I think when you have a question of how
someone identifies you, simply do that you can ask. That
is the level of respect because one of the things
(22:27):
I find with play Uncle Clifford that no matter who
you are or where you come from, you respect her.
I think you respect her because you see her. So
you see this body that is six two. You see
this dark skin, these full lips, you see this beard,
but you see this pretty face, and you see these nails,
and you're like, what's going on? But you see someone
(22:48):
walking with a level of confidence and clarity even more so,
and it's not even about any kind of bravado, you
know what I mean? I think because when you see
a woman that is walking in her full femininity, I
don't think that she has to be soft or she
has to be in a pants suit to have authority.
(23:11):
You understanding what I mean, And you don't think that
a brother that he has to be wearing a moon
move to be in touch with his feelings. You can
be who you are in your sweatpants, in your athletic socks,
in your business, in your moomoo, all of the things right,
(23:33):
especially for us as a community. I feel so proud
for this moment, honestly, brother, because there are people who
still have high levels of homophobia, absolutely for sure. But
what I do know about this time that I'm living
in and this project, is that there are people who
are willing to make a change, that are opening their minds,
(23:55):
that are opening their minds not only to the LGBTQ
plus can be unity in the full spectrum that we have,
you know, between bisexual, pan sexual trends as well as
pan sexual. You know that I like it all. I
think that I think that people have really stigmatized sex
(24:15):
workers and pole dancers for so long, right, and then
they watch this program and they're like, Oh, they're real
people just like me. They're going they're working their way
through school, they're taking care of their children. Yes, Oh,
they're helping their grandparents, their caretakers. You know, you can
go to the dentists and you not know that your
(24:36):
dentist used to be upon the pole or your dentists
used to be diamond at a club. We all have
a history, but we also have the power to ReadWrite
our future.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Right absolutely, But Nico, I want to thank you. First
of all, I want to give you a voice. I
wanted to say thank you for allowing me to be
entertained every Sunday. And if I miss it on Sunday,
I see it on't repeat on my streaming. Great character. Well,
you know the thing I like, and as we close
this interview out is that your character is not over
(25:07):
the top. It's a character I found very realistic, you know.
And but you just planning who you are, and I
think that's what you just said, just being the person
who you are. It doesn't have to be dressed a
certain way. You can You're the same person in a
in a kulox, You're the same person in shorts. You're
the same person in a dress. You the same person
in the suit, same person with the blood wig. You're
(25:27):
the same person. It's just being administered in a different
look And that's the exciting part about this show is
that Pea Valley is a show with a different looks
set in a small town, fictional city in Mississippi. The
music is great, the acting is great, the drama is great.
More importantly, you will fall in love with the characters.
If you can't find stars network, find it drop that
(25:50):
app Thank you for taking the time to come on
Money Making Conversations Master Class. You are a star, and
not only on p Valley, but you're just a star
of real life. Thank you, my friend, Thank you brother.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And if you want to see her hear any episodes
of Money Making Conversation Masterclass, please go to money Making
Conversation dot com. IM Rushan McDonald, I am your host.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Thank you for joining us for this edition of Money
Making Conversations Masterclass. Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rushan McDonald
is produced by thirty eight fifteen Media Inc. More information
about thirty eight to fifteen Media Inc. Is available at
thirty eight fifteen media dot com. And always remember to
lead with your gifts.
If you're about to make a change in your life
and you feel uncomfortable, that's the best feeling you can
have because for the first time in your life, you'll
make a new decision that's going to be best for
you and not what somebody told you to do. And
that's when all bets are off. Welcome to Money Making
Conversation Masterclass. I'm your host, Rashaan McDonald. Our theme is
(00:22):
there's no perfect time to start following your dreams. I
recognize that we all have different definitions of success. For
you and maybe decide to your HM, it's time to
stop reading other people's success stories to start living your own.
Keep winning. People always talk about their purpose or gifts.
(00:43):
If you have a gift, leave with your gifts and
they'll let your friends, family, or co worker stop you
from planning or living your dreams. My guess is Nathaniel
and Nicole Anden was born on an army base in
Germany to a black Southern woman born and a West
African man from God. Nicole, as he's affectionately known, was
raised in Detroit, Michigan, the Mota City. He dismistifies the
(01:06):
myths around Southern black men, black gay men, and those
identifying in the non binary space and if they live
four lives that they can lead. Nico originated the role
of Uncle Clifford and the popular show Pea Valley and
play that character since twenty eleven. Today, he is the
only character that played Uncle Clifford as well as on
the television show Pea Valley. Pea Valley, If you don't know,
(01:28):
It's an engrossing drama of family, friendship and survival. This
season is ritually crafted. Characters deal with sacrifice, ethical dilemmas, identity, family, love, trust,
and betrayal, while also facing the aftermass of the decisions
from season one. Please work for the money making Conversation
masterclass for the first time, Nico, Aman, how you doing,
(01:48):
my friend.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm great, I'm great. Thank you so much for having
me here. Well, first of all, its first time. Hopefully
won't be the oh.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, no, no no, I'll be mad with you if
you're the last, because you are you are a star.
You are a star. You are an individual. Brother, you
know you're an individual. That Let's let's talk about the character,
because you know in your bio that said you've been
playing this character or character like this since twenty eleven.
So that means that character did not originate on the
(02:16):
television series. I've seen you've been playing it before. That
give us some background history on your character and how
did they get to that point, because, like I said,
you know, because you have some great you know, designs
and your beard and all that stuff that you're not
wearing right now. I have a beard. I remember I
did the movie. They cut my beard a certain way,
and so let's let's talk about that character developed, because
I'm sure it was inspired a lot by your own imagination.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It was inspired a lot by my own imagination, but
primarily from Katori Hall's imagination. Katori Hall as our showrunner
and the creator of this universe that she has here
but here in p Valley. This actually started a little
earlier than twenty eleven. Back in two thousand and yeah.
(03:02):
I was living in New York at the time. I
was an actor, I was choreographing and directing, so I
was doing all three and I was in between gigs
and I received an invitation to go to Victoria's house
and she was having a salon series. She used to
have this thing called black Mondays because in the theater
(03:23):
it's dark on Monday. In theater language, we say it's
black because all the lights are off. And so what
happened was she was she had a writing fellowship at
the Lark Theater Company, It's an off Broadway house in
New York, and through that Salon series, it was a
group of writers, actors, musicians that just got together to
(03:46):
read or talk about their ideas and new material that
they had and a collective so to speak, kind of
like James baldwins or in the Hurston you know, the
Renaissance group back in the day. They were creating their
own version of that. And essentially what happened there was
a lot of networking that was happening across the platform
(04:06):
among all these different black artists. It was not necessarily
somewhat none of us at the time were on Broadway
or had big major motion picture deals. It literally was
about conversation and who is it that has points of
access and just different ideas. So one of her co
writers in the fellowship, Dominique Mariso, who they both since
(04:29):
have been like Tony Award nominations and all these accreditations
and awards decorating them, she said, I'm looking for a
person that kind of houses this feminine energy yet a
masculine energy. I have this idea for this character, and
it was all these things. And when I got there,
there were five pages. Man, there were five pages, and
(04:52):
almost five pages only two of them Uncle Clifford was in.
There was two different scenes and it was a description
of Uncle Clifford emerging from the shadows of the club.
Eyelashes like butterfly wings, and nails like ego talents, Uncle Clifford.
And so that's how it all started.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Now, how tall are you because you're you're you're not
a small guest to six two?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, cool, I'm definitely a man of size. You know
what I'm saying. As they say corn brand fed.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Like I said, you know, because your body was introduced
into pilot, you know what I'm saying. When you was
you know, saw that rear look and everything so so nudity,
that was nudity. How did you feel? Was it an
uncomfortable moment for you? You have to prepare for that moment.
Talk about that in the pilot. See, I think you.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Always have to prepare for any person that you know.
You know that as an artist in general, where you
are using your body to tell the story. You're using
your soul to tell the story. I know as an
artist I am especially I'm gonna tell you this being
a man of a certain age. I think in my
twenties it was it could have maybe messed me up
(06:04):
a little bit more because it was more into the
constraints of what people sought I should be. Right. But
I'm a grown man now, you know, the thirties. You know,
they've taught me how to really be who I am
and to have a level of self acceptance. But in
regards to the show and how the nudity works, it's
the show takes place in this club called the Pink,
(06:27):
and it's a strip club, and so we're talking about
these people who are marginalized and definitely have an idea.
They know what they're doing, and they're working in the
sex work industry. And it just made sense that in
this industry there's a level of awareness and comfortability of
being in one's body and now stepping outside of that.
(06:48):
As the actor and the artist, I had to ask
myself the question, and I proposed it to the producers
in my camera test for the series. The TV series,
it was more so they said, how do I feel
about it. And my question to them was, when was
the last time that you saw a full figured body,
(07:09):
male or female, dark skinned, right, being made love to
on the screen? Right? And I felt that that image
of someone being full, you know, and being shown love,
being made love to, being loving, I thought that that
was just a revolutionary visual.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I always tell people who come on my show and
also the people who watch your listening to show, there's
a process. You know, this is never you know, you
have to meet with your other cast members and said
boundaries about what makes you feel comfortable makes that other
person feel comfortable, so it could feel natural. I'm sure
this happened with you on this series as well. Correct.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Absolutely, we definitely have intimacy coaches, and the intimacy coach
is the interact in the media, in the middle, the
median that works between different actors, the directors, what the
script demands and how do we get there?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And it's really great. So I'm talking to Nico, I'm
calling my friend, you know, uncle Clifford. Uncle Clifford, because
it's somebody who comes into your life super confident, but
also it's surrounded by a world of people, not just women,
but the world of people customers who really don't don't
know what. They live in a fantasy world, and sometime
(08:28):
that fantasy world can be cruel. But I would tell
you this what I really like about this show, p Valley.
You see the word strip, you see the word black,
you just think you gonna see a ton of nudity,
And that is not the case. It's the story, it's
the characters, it's the is the latest the lines talk
about that because that's what people initially think. Correct, The
(08:50):
stereotype is when you hear black club, ship Club, you
hear nudity, n and that is not the case. In fact,
the nudity when I watched the series, it comes so
casual that I don't notice it because I'm so engaged
into the character's storyline. And that's really a blessing, correct Nico.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's more than a blessing. I felt like it's a
necessity in the way that we had to tell the story.
This is definitely I think that Katory really wanted to
make sure that there's definitely the fact that women and
female bodies have really been looked at and used in
a certain way in cinema specifically and over sexualized. But
(09:31):
here in this world. I think that there's something that
we call the female gaze, and that's something that's always
asked of people that are different directors that are coming
on the show. That's something that we think about as
a cast in the female gaze that does not only
pertain to the female body. But how is it that
you can see the world without objectification. I think that
(09:54):
through that space you get to see the athleticism of
these polled answers and to see what it takes to
physically do the things that they are doing to haul
themselves up this pole, to to fly around, to walk
on the ceiling and on clouds. That's actually the big
metaphor for the show, the pole. The pole. There's a
(10:14):
line that always says, sometimes rising feels like falling, and
falling feels like rising. So the pole is actually meant
to be the metaphor for life and in a way
that we as black people, especially Black Southerners, have existed
and made it through the day.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, Nicole, he brought up the poll now oh tearsing
that Keisha, my god, don' don't get you, don't go.
Don't move too fast, because I got to get to them.
Outstanding credits showing and Mercedes. Okay, but let's first go
with Keysha. My my, my, my mind. I'm just talking
(10:53):
from an athletic stample and am I talking from a
sexual stample? What I'm seeing that she does on that
pole it has to be mouth dropping to the cast
and where did they find her? And what is her
background as an athlete? Because she has to have gymnastics
in her background.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Why do you say that because of the fact she's
so comfortable on a poll, She's flexible, she's able to
she's able to manipulate it because I, like I said,
I'm not doing it justice. You have to watch the
series to see what she's able to do. As far
as from a ballerina standpoint, she is really poet and
poetic on that poll. You know where Mercedes is a force.
(11:34):
Not saying she's not sexual, but she's a force. It's
like watching a running back and a wide receiver.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass, hosted by Rashaan MacDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations Dot com and follow Money Making
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
While receiver flows, you know what I'm saying, that's Keith Sean.
A running back can flow too, but it can hit
that hole and if you hit him, then you can
knock you off. That's Mercedes. That's right Mercedes, right, so
and so so you ain't gonna get me, Nico, I
know you're gonna get me. I watched you show.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
No, I'm not trying to get you know What's what's
I love that you are actually saying that you use
the football metaphors and comparisons, and it definitely is accurate
all of the dancers. The thing about it is in
a strip club, every dancer has a different style. Some
of the dancers are like tworkers. So like there's a
(12:40):
group of our core dancers and some of them run
what in the club is called twrktown in talktown, or
like you know, the platform stages that are within the
actual club, not on the main stage with the pole,
and some of the girls who work there like toy.
But then when you talk about Miss Mississippi, who is
played by Shannon Thornton, she is that character is meant
(13:03):
to be like the masterpiece she's based off. She's called
Miss Mississippi because she moves like water, and her moving
like water is rooted in the African deity of Yame
y'all yea y'all, being the goddess of water and of power.
You know, Mercedes is like you mentioned, Mercedes is played
by Brandy Evans. I'm gonna say Brandy Norwood.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Singer.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's not my friend the singer, but my friend the actress,
Miss Brandy Evans, and she her style of dancing is
definitely much more athletic. It's definitely much more physical, and
it also lends to the personality of the dancer, you know,
where there's levels of aggression or where there's level of fluidity.
(13:51):
I think that dance. Being a choreographer and Brandy being
a dancer, and Shannon having danced before. None of them
dance as pole dancers, but we're physical dancers. Ellen Rika Johnson,
who plays All the Night, she has an extensive background
in martial arts, so there was a level of physicality
that all of us had in our bodies. Right then,
(14:14):
what has to happen is that we go through a
training program, we go through boot camp, We literally go
through boot camp, just like all of the Marvel characters.
Just like we need to do an action movie, there's
about three to four months before we actually start filming
that everybody goes to pole classes, you go on to
stretch classes. Got to get your hips open, got to
get the back. You gotta do all the conditioning because
(14:36):
it tears up your hands, your knees, You get a
lot of ruising and things like that. And some of
the girls are definitely sharing some of that background on
social media that you know, you guys get to see
of what it all takes. Because the show and the
world is kind of meant to be our own kind
of urban circus. Solet so to speak, well.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
That terms used actually in this series as well. So
used the Mississippi her character Keishawn's role because she's married
to a guy. I won't give too much of the
story away, but somebody she shouldn't be She shouldn't I
shouldn't use the word married. She's she's living with a
guy who she has a child with that's not creating
a comfortable home life for her. And that slides into
(15:18):
the who I really love this guy who plays the
role of Diamond, you know, it's like, you know, not
often did you see a show where the bouncer is
sensitive but dangerous. You know what I'm saying. You know,
you know, look at Diamond, you know a diamond. You know,
It's like, I feel that I could lose his he
could crush me, but then he can also pick me
(15:40):
up and take me and rescue me at the same
time after he's crushed me, you know what I'm saying, Nico,
So talk about those characters. When you see a character
like a Diamond's character and then then being able to
develop that how how special do you feel in the
role from episode to episode to episode.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I feel, I feel blessed. I feel really I know
that this is a special time as an artist, as
an actor, you don't always get roles that are so
rich and that are really rooted in a level of truth,
that represent your community, that can represent a fraction of
your life that you have been through. I think that
(16:21):
this show, it definitely takes all the different marginalized communities
all and the marginalized within the marginalized. You know. One
of the beautiful things and attractive points to me about
this project is that it wasn't just the women who
come in and out these doors. You talked about the bouncer,
our Diamond. That's the character's name, and Diamond is played
(16:44):
by Tyler Lepley, and Tyler is able to bring a
level of sensitivity as well as complexity to the role,
coming as a former armed officer, the officer of the law,
but armed forces, and what that did to him with
being in the war and that that postpartum that comes
(17:05):
from there. I think that it's also he's a he's
a root man, you know, he's a black man and
a Southern man that was raised in knowing the powers
of the earth and very strong African medicine and how
that works. And sometimes you don't get to see that
(17:25):
in an urban body, you know, in a contemporary body,
like what does that look like? You know, it's not
some kind of whodo hokey magic. It is literally something
that's rooted in tradition, like have you ever swept your
grandmother's foot by mistake? You know what I'm saying. So
that goes over the show.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
You know, left, the left, the person on the floor, okay,
the person on the floor, you.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Know exactly those things, so that those kinds of things
in Southern Southern uh ism are woven into this story,
and that actually is the part of where Katroy started
her writing. Her writing has always used and highlighted Southern
culture and all of its capacities to make it so.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I'll change him. The music is fantastic, the characters are fantastic.
You know when you say Grandma, I'll be remissed, Nicole
if I don't bring up Loretta Devine. Okay, I've even
remiss if I don't bring up that character.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I love this lady. Come on, come on, that's my
girl right there.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Man.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
You know, she started on Netflix's Family Reunion and so
many other series you know, been around. Came from the
University of Houston, back in Houston, Texas, back in the
day a ka true and true. Tell us about absolutely
my friend. I'm Houston, Texas absolutely so seeing her and
seeing her play this this this uh this role which
(18:52):
is as is Isaiah Washington, who was on the first season.
He's from Houston, Texas, Missouri City, which is a suburb
of Houston, Texas. So talk about that relationship and her character.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Working with Loretta Devine, I always say is simply divide.
I had on a vision board to work with her
on I didn't know what project. You know, this was
just something that I just always loved her spirit and
her zeal. When I met her it was even more,
(19:28):
It was even more. She is such a rich treasure,
like she's like a national treasure to to us as
a people. I can't, I can't. I want it to
just say to me, but I don't want to hold
her to myself. When we work together, it is awesome.
It is so much fun. We always have a level.
(19:50):
I tend to do this generally when I'm playing Uncle Quifford.
There's a lot of improv that happens prior to We
always do improv scenes prior to the scene to get
us in the flow because we just want to be
in the moment. I am from Detroit, as you mentioned earlier,
but my family.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Is rooted in the South absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
No, Detroit is just nothing but up South.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yes, So there's a level of comfortability that we have
with one another, and we really just bounce off and
she's able to really just be there and drop in.
Sometimes we actually forget that, you know, we're not really
related in real life. You know, you know, she's amazing cool.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I'm talking to Nico. He's one of the stars and
an incredibly popular series of stars that we're called The
Pea Valley. I always try to educate myself. I always
try to uplift I always try to bring information to
the show that we all need to be aware of.
And I also learned there's a a level of respect
we have to have for everybody. And now in your introduction,
I said, he demystifies the myth around Southern black men,
(21:01):
black gay men, and those identifying in the non binary
space and who live four lives. As we close out
this interview, please explain to us exactly the importance of
that and what are you trying to What am I
trying to say when I say that what I just said.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I think what you are saying to me. How I
receive it is that it is a new day. It
is a time where we regardless of how you identify,
I think it's the time where we can see all
of us well, when we can acknowledge all of us,
and when we can talk about it. I come from
a time from when it used to be the question
(21:41):
of are you sweet or do you have sugar in
your tank? Or back in the day even Red Fox
and saying from the sign, he was like, you know
he's a little m M. You know, there were things
that people always talked about, and I think that the
importance of today is that we really get to be
able to meet each other human being to human being.
(22:05):
The character that I play Uncle Clifford is non binary,
and that's a person who is equally accepting of all
of the things that cannot be held into a restrictive box.
And I think when you have a question of how
someone identifies you, simply do that you can ask. That
is the level of respect because one of the things
(22:27):
I find with play Uncle Clifford that no matter who
you are or where you come from, you respect her.
I think you respect her because you see her. So
you see this body that is six two. You see
this dark skin, these full lips, you see this beard,
but you see this pretty face, and you see these nails,
and you're like, what's going on? But you see someone
(22:48):
walking with a level of confidence and clarity even more so,
and it's not even about any kind of bravado, you
know what I mean? I think because when you see
a woman that is walking in her full femininity, I
don't think that she has to be soft or she
has to be in a pants suit to have authority.
(23:11):
You understanding what I mean, And you don't think that
a brother that he has to be wearing a moon
move to be in touch with his feelings. You can
be who you are in your sweatpants, in your athletic socks,
in your business, in your moomoo, all of the things right,
(23:33):
especially for us as a community. I feel so proud
for this moment, honestly, brother, because there are people who
still have high levels of homophobia, absolutely for sure. But
what I do know about this time that I'm living
in and this project, is that there are people who
are willing to make a change, that are opening their minds,
(23:55):
that are opening their minds not only to the LGBTQ
plus can be unity in the full spectrum that we have,
you know, between bisexual, pan sexual trends as well as
pan sexual. You know that I like it all. I
think that I think that people have really stigmatized sex
(24:15):
workers and pole dancers for so long, right, and then
they watch this program and they're like, Oh, they're real
people just like me. They're going they're working their way
through school, they're taking care of their children. Yes, Oh,
they're helping their grandparents, their caretakers. You know, you can
go to the dentists and you not know that your
(24:36):
dentist used to be upon the pole or your dentists
used to be diamond at a club. We all have
a history, but we also have the power to ReadWrite
our future.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Right absolutely, But Nico, I want to thank you. First
of all, I want to give you a voice. I
wanted to say thank you for allowing me to be
entertained every Sunday. And if I miss it on Sunday,
I see it on't repeat on my streaming. Great character. Well,
you know the thing I like, and as we close
this interview out is that your character is not over
(25:07):
the top. It's a character I found very realistic, you know.
And but you just planning who you are, and I
think that's what you just said, just being the person
who you are. It doesn't have to be dressed a
certain way. You can You're the same person in a
in a kulox, You're the same person in shorts. You're
the same person in a dress. You the same person
in the suit, same person with the blood wig. You're
(25:27):
the same person. It's just being administered in a different
look And that's the exciting part about this show is
that Pea Valley is a show with a different looks
set in a small town, fictional city in Mississippi. The
music is great, the acting is great, the drama is great.
More importantly, you will fall in love with the characters.
If you can't find stars network, find it drop that
(25:50):
app Thank you for taking the time to come on
Money Making Conversations Master Class. You are a star, and
not only on p Valley, but you're just a star
of real life. Thank you, my friend, Thank you brother.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And if you want to see her hear any episodes
of Money Making Conversation Masterclass, please go to money Making
Conversation dot com. IM Rushan McDonald, I am your host.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Thank you for joining us for this edition of Money
Making Conversations Masterclass. Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rushan McDonald
is produced by thirty eight fifteen Media Inc. More information
about thirty eight to fifteen Media Inc. Is available at
thirty eight fifteen media dot com. And always remember to
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