wo-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning, television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Stephanie Chung.
A trailblazing executive in private aviation and author of Ally Leadership: How to Lead People Who Are Not Like You. Chung shares insights on leadership, diversity, and her journey from a baggage handler to becoming the first African-American president of a private aviation company.
🔑 Key Themes & Highlights
-
Leadership & Diversity
- Chung emphasizes that leadership is about communication, not just race or gender.
- She introduces the acronym ALLY—Ask, Listen, Learn, and take action—as a framework for effective leadership.
-
Navigating a Changing Workforce
- Discusses the challenges of leading across five generations in the workplace.
- Highlights the importance of understanding different perspectives, including gender, ethnicity, and neurodiversity.
-
Women in Leadership
- Explains how women approach leadership differently, focusing on the whole person rather than just the employee.
- Encourages leaders to recognize and adapt to diverse communication styles.
-
Age & Career Growth
- Challenges the notion that career aspirations should end at retirement age.
- Shares insights on how people in their 50s and 60s can still pursue new opportunities.
-
Her Journey in Private Aviation
- Started as a baggage handler and worked her way up to executive leadership.
- Shares experiences of overcoming biases and proving herself in a male-dominated industry.
📘 About Stephanie Chung
Stephanie Chung is an aviation executive, leadership expert, and author dedicated to helping leaders navigate diversity and inclusion in the workplace. Her book, Ally Leadership, provides a roadmap for leading effectively in today’s evolving corporate world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Rashwan McDonald, the host of Money Making Conversations Masterclass,
where we encourage people to stop reading other people's success
stories and.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Start planning their own.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Listen up as I interview entrepreneurs from around the country,
talk to celebrities and ask them how they are running
their companies, and speak with dog profits who are making
a difference in their local communities. Now, sit back and
listen as we unlock the secrets to their success on
Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Hi, I'm Rushan McDonald, our host
(00:36):
of weekly Money Making Conversations Masterclass show. The interviews and
information that this show provides are for everyone. It's time
to stop reading other people's success stories and start living
your own. If you want to be a guest on
my show, please visit our website, Moneymakingconversations dot com and
click the be a Guest button. Now to the show.
(00:56):
My guest is the author of Ally Leadership, How to
Lead People who Are Not Like You. Here's a little
background on her. She's the first African American president of
a private aviation company and has more than thirty five
years of travel experience, which she began as a baggage handler.
This led her to top executive roles as president of
Jeftsweet and Chief Growth Officer at Will's Up. Please welcome
(01:20):
the Money Making Conversations Masterclass, Stephanie Chung.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you for having me with Seanna.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Okay, the name of your book, tell us how you
came over and the name of the book, let's dive
deep into.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
This book is a brilliant read. It's about leadership.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Is not when you hear that word how to lead
people who are not like you, being at your African American,
one would immediately go to race and this is not
what this book is about. This book is about communications.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
You thank you, Thank you sir, and thank you for
saying that, because that is the most important part that
I really want people to convey. The reason why I
named the book ally Leadership and not allyship right is
because ally, first of all, is an acronym, so it
stands for ask, lists and learn and you take action.
So to your point, the book is really a leadership book.
(02:06):
It's not a DEI book or anything like that. It's
a book for all leaders who want to be able
to lead people who are not like them. And the
reason why that's important Rushan is because right now we
have five soon to be six generations working, so that's
unheard of. We've got people from sixteen years old to
seventy five years old, right, And those of us in leadership,
(02:27):
we know that a zoomer thinks very different than a
boomer or so the inner generations in the marketplace, in
the workforce is really challenging for leaders. So that's the
first reason why I brote the book. The second reason
is we also have women as the majority of the population,
so we think differently, we communicate differently, we lead differently,
(02:48):
so that changes the dynamics in the workforce as well.
And then the last piece I want to really mention
is that the ethnic demographics are changing also, right, So
you have all the ethnic groups that are growing, non
ethnic groups shrinking, so that changes dynamics as well as
people with neurodiversity or people who have different abilities or
LGBTQ plus. So all said, those of us in leadership
(03:11):
are leading people who are not like each other, and
they're not like us. And so I come from an
industry where there's not a lot of people that look
like me, sound like me, act like me, etc. Don't
have my same background, so I have become really efficient
in how to lead people who are not like me,
And so I wrote the book as a tool for
today's leader to know how to lead today's modern force
(03:33):
and a modern workforce. So I really just wanted to
be a tool and hopes that it would help other
leaders be able to do it more, quicker, better, faster,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Cool, let's start some a couple of comments. I'm a
good listener, and you've brought up women and you say
women think differently?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah? How and who you when you said think differently?
Who you're saying referencing when you say to think differently?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
So when I say think differently, today's to day's leadership, Right,
it's primarily made up a majority of men, And so
women think differently than men and any of us that
you have any interaction, whether it be with our spouses
or kids, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
We know men and women think differently. Now what does
that mean in the workforce?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Though?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
So when you think of from a woman's perspective, we're
going to really for the most part, and I'm obviously
I'm generalizing, but we tend to look at the whole person, right, So, yes,
you may be my employee, but I also acknowledge the
fact that you were somebody's husband, or somebody's son, or
somebody's best friend, or somebody's father. So when I'm addressing you,
(04:35):
I'm actually addressing you as the entire person of who
you are versus just you work on my team type
of thing. So we women tend to, maybe as part
of our nurturing as well, we tend to look at
people as an entire you know, we say bring your
whole self to work.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
We actually look at you as a whole person.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
And that's a little bit different than perhaps what people
are used to with the traditional type of leadership that
has historically been in place.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Now, just later, everybody, I'm talking to Stephanie Chung her
book Ally Leadership, How to Lead People Who Are Not
like You. This book is not just about traditional leadership.
It's about revolutionizing leadership practices to be more effective in
a rapidly changing corporate world. Like she mentioned the just
racial different ethnic groups, the social issues that we're dealing with. Now,
(05:20):
this issue transitions transcends the category of race, gender, sexual orientation,
different abilities, and age. Now let's talk about age, because
I'm a big proponent of age should never be an excuse,
and people are somehow been told at sixty five there
is a check waiting on them for retirement. And you
know that's not true. We all know that's not true.
(05:42):
But somehow that message is not getting down to the masses.
But so people tend to think that they hit fifty,
they hit sixty, they hit seventy, their dreams have stopped.
Let's talk about the age process when it comes to
your book and what you message you was trying to
deliver to that audience.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Stephanie.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yes, So, first of all, I'm in my sixties and
I'm like, I'm telling you, I'm loving it. I feel
like I have more clarity, more energy. I mean, it's fantastic.
So my message to anyone regardless of the age, because
the reverse is true as well with Sean. Right, So
people think if you're too young, you can't lead, If
you're too old, you know, it's time for you to
get out.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
The truth of the matter is we're all living longer.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
You know, it's funny AARP thinks that the person who's
going to be one hundred and fifty is going to
actually make it to one hundred and fifty has already
been born. So really what that means is if you're
in your sixties or fifties or you know later, it's
no longer that you have to retire at sixty five.
I know a lot of people personally that their second
you know, dreams they're kind of who they are now,
(06:45):
actually started.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
When they were in their sixties.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So my message for people reading the book is it
really doesn't matter what your age is, because we're all
living longer. You know, today's sixty is really like yesterday's forty, right,
And so I just want people to know that it
doesn't really matter if you are a leader, and if
you feel like you're called for leadership, and whether that's
leading in a company or just leading yourself right, or
(07:08):
you're an entrepreneur, this guy's.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
The limit for you.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
There's no longer the thought process of oh I'm sixty
five and now I need to start to retire.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Now are you kidding me?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I mean, today's sixty five year old is like again
their second win.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And I'd like to say I'm in my sixties to Stephanie,
So I think you and I may hit that sixty
one hundred and fifty, Okay, we might be in a
race for that one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Just let you know not I don't know who they
talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
For them to be talking about me and make me
talk about you, I'll be remissed. I know we're talking
about the book, but the fact that you were president
of Jet sweet chief gross officer, it will's up and
if the people are listening, I know everybody doesn't fly
fiber jets. This is like the green Daylight Cream, a
(07:56):
private jet travel that we're talking about. And as an
African America, as a female, tell us about that experience.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And I was reading that.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I read your book and I was that little pebble
beat bomb with that when you look up and down,
you know who is she out there on.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
The golf course?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Tell us about going from a baggage handler and then
you know, we all have dreams and people say I'm
gonna do this. People go yeah, right, and as you
start going up that ladder realizing the possibilities.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Let's share that moment.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
With us, because I think it's important that our audience,
whether they're black, white, Latino, younger, old, need to understand
that a dream can happen.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
But it's applied to work and relationships.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yes, yes, so thank you for that.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know, I always like to start off because you're right,
my career is very unique, right, and so I always
like to start off and give and give credit where
credit is due. My dad was a master sergeant in
the US Air Force, so I grew up around planes
my entire life. And really what that meant is I moved.
Also every two years of my life. I always lived
on active Air Force faces, so I heard planes taking
(08:59):
off and landing all the time, and so early on
I knew I wanted to be an aviation The problem, though, Ruschan, was.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
That I didn't know what I could do in aviation.
And the reason.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Why is because way back in the day, whenever you
would see aviation depicted in TV or film or magazines
or anything like that, any type of media, you would
always see if you were a man, you were a pilot,
or if you were a female, you were a flight attendant.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
But back in the day, none of those pictures ever
looked like me.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
And so though I knew I wanted to be an
aviation I really didn't know what was accessible to me
because I'd never seen a person of color or any
type of representation in as an aviator when I was
growing up, so I didn't know what was available to me.
That said, my very first job, to your point, I
ended up parking planes and load and luggage at the
Boston Logan.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Airport for a very big airline, and.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
I loved that job. Now here's what's really interesting, Ruchan.
Back then we're talking like.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Forty years ago.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Then women didn't work on the ramp, right, But I
felt really comfortable because I grew up around soldiers, so
I grew up around men. So I was like quite
comfortable working on the ramp.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Loved the job.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
But because I always also needed extra money, I would
go work upstairs at the ticket counter to make some
extra money and then check customers in for their flights, etc.
So one day I was up there, and you know, again,
I worked for a really big airline in the Boston area,
and so I would always see our executives flying in
and out of the airport, so I knew who they
were rouchamp, but I didn't think that they knew who
(10:33):
I was because I was a stick counterperson right or
working on the ramp.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And so one day this gentleman, his name was Jim.
I'll never forget Jim.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Jim was like this little, short white guy with a
deep Southern accent, and he came over to me when
I was checking customers in and he said, in his
Southern drawl, he said, you know, Stephanie, every time I
come to this airport, I see you, and I see
you checking customers in with a smile on your face.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I think we have you in the wrong position. I
think you should be in sales. Now. Up until that point,
I was really headed.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
More towards in operations, you know, type of career, and
I didn't know anything about sales, but I respected Jim.
And so with that said, you know, he and I
had a conversation and one thing led to nether and
I ended up, you know, then selling for the airlines
and then did that for many years, and then got
recruited into private aviation, and so started off in sales,
(11:25):
and then to your point, all the things that you
mentioned that you know, ended up going up the ladder
and ended up being one of the highest, if not
the highest ranked black.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Person in private aviation.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And so it's because though I started off like, let
me just start at the bottom, let me figure out
because I don't know what's successible, but here's what I
do know. I've got a good work ethic, I'm smart,
and I'm willing to put in the time, effort, energy,
et cetera in order to get into the position that
I want to be in now.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Early on Ruschard, I never.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Would have dreamed that I would be in the types
of positions that I ended up in. But it all
always starts with the first step. And I think that's
really what I would want lead your listeners to really
think about it. I didn't think, couldn't even think right
about where I would end up because I just didn't know.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I didn't know what was accessible.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
But I could think about the first step, right, And
I think sometimes people just don't take that first step.
They overthink it, they think too much about it. It's like,
just take the first step, take that step, and then
that leads you to all the other steps. So I
loved my career. I am still obviously still have a
foot in private aviation. I do some advisory board work
and whatnot, and so it's a fun career. And you
(12:34):
know this because you and I talked off camera. It's
an aspirational industry and what I mean by that is,
everybody either wants to fly in a private jet or
wants to have enough money to be able to buy
a private jet. So it's very aspirational and so it's
a little bit different than most careers.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
But I have loved it.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I've loved my industry, and thankfully the industry has loved
to be back as well.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, let's understand this is Stephanie Chong in the business
that you have Delta, you have American Airlines, you have
private travel, which is very unique, which is very specific,
but they have an audience out there and it's not
celebrity driven.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I'm just letting everybody know this is not It's so.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Many just regular looking people who are flying private jets.
It will shock you. These are the people who have
hedge frogs. These are people who are executives. These are
people who are just regular everyday people who have worked hard,
want to move fast, and cannot do the security reasons
hang out with the regular folks.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They just cannot.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And that business is being being led by a person
of your color makes me mad because I hadn't met
you before, because Steve Harveys should have met you.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I'm gonna make sure Steven A. Smith knows about.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You because these are people who fly these planes and
use these planes and don't know that a voice of
your magnitude was important to our participation as passengers.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Now let's get.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Back to I got to you know, the think about it,
Oh my show, Money Making Conversations master Class.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You know, I have a very diverse audience. Six percent
African America, twenty percent white, twelve percent Latino. You know,
fifty two percent male, forty eight percent female, sixty five
percent of my audience is under the age of forty five.
You are a person that we expire, a drever who
comes in. Did not allow color to denounce your opportunities,
but allow your personality. And when people gave you that
(14:32):
moment and since were I always talk about this show, Stephanie,
and I want to talk about that a little bit longer.
Somebody offered you something you could have been intimidated by
and said, oh no, I never thought about that, because,
like you said, you were headed to operations sales. Talk
about that moment a little bit more detailed, because that
was the turning point in your life and there up
(14:52):
there have been others along the way, but that was
the one moment that made you really go home and
sit on the side of your bed.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely. And here's what's really interesting. I
want to even take it back because because you have
such a diverse audience, which makes me very happy, by
the way, but you know, you just never know where
your opportunities are going to come from. So here was
a gentleman who was born and raised in the South
in the nineteen forties, and here I am, you know,
an African American girl born and raised all over the place.
(15:23):
Because of my military background. You would think we wouldn't
have a lot in common, right, But the truth of
the matter is he saw something because of all the
things you and I talked about before being able to
you know, working hard, having a good attitude.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
You know, when the opportunity struck, I was. I was
ready for that conversation.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
But you know, I also appreciate him that he was
a person paying attention. The first thing he said to
me is every time I come through, I see you, right.
And so one of the things that I always like
to encourage people is you just never know where that
opportunity is going to come up.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You never know who, you know, God puts in your path.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
That may be the person that speaks one sentence or
one has one conversation that truly changes the trajectory of
your career. And that's what happened for me. And so
with that in mind, what I would just tell people is,
you know what, grow where you're planted. Wherever you are now,
it is probably not where you're going to be two years,
five years from now. And so what you want to
(16:18):
do is always remember that you're your personal brand. Yes,
you work for a brand, but you have a personal
brand as well, and so what do you want your
personal brand to stand for? And then you work every
single day to honor that your personal brand. So for me,
my personal brand I really wanted to stand for. You know,
I treat people kindly, that I work really hard. My
(16:41):
yes is my yes, my no is my no. There's
certain things that I really am intentional about when it
comes to my brand. So therefore, when the opportunity comes
up or in a lot of times too, you know, Rashan,
we always have to remember we may not be in
the room when our personal brand is.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Being discussed, right, but.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
How then can you make sure that when you're not
in the room and your brand is being discussed. How
do you want people to discuss it? And that's what
you're doing every single day at work.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashaan McDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations dot com and follow money Making
(17:31):
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Now here's up to interesting in your book because it's
been in the media over the last couple of years.
Counsel culture, and you've taken the time of talking about
how to steer clear of counsel culture.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
First, I want to know. I want you to explain
to people.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
What you your possession of counsel culture so that we
all be on the same page, and how do we
steer clear of that because that can't impact how you
lead people who are not like you.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Flor absolutely, and so you know what you want to
do when you think about leading people who are not
like you, at its core, it doesn't actually matter, you know,
in regards to if they're different than you, because most
likely they are going to be different than you. Just
because of what's happening in the world today. And so
one of the things I mentioned earlier the acronym for all.
I was asked listen, learn, you take action. The reason
(18:21):
why that's really important is because I was getting tired
of having people self anoint themselves as an.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Ally, right, right, and so that is that's crazy.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And really what I mean by that is, you know,
I speak as a profession That's what I do, is
I speak, and so often I would, you know, be
done with the speech. Have people come up during the
meet and greets and they would say, especially men, oh
my god, Steph, I love you know everything you just said.
And I'm an ally. You know, I'm married, I've got
three daughters, and I'm an ally. I'm like, I'm all in.
(18:51):
And my follow up is always the same. I always
say to the raushan like, thank you so much. I'm
so glad to hear that you're an ally. Tell me
what you've done this week.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
To show your ally ship.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Crickets, right, people don't have anything that they've anything tangible.
So really what I'm really pushing for leaders is people
want to know the receipts that you have to back
up this statement, because you can't just call yourself an ally, right,
I can't call myself a nice person. You can call
me a nice person, like, oh, I've met Stephanie. She
seems like she's a nice person. But I can't self
(19:24):
annoint myself and it's a nice person. And the same
is true with ally, and so you have to earn
the right to be called an ally. And that's the
culture that we're living in today, right. Everybody wants you
to back up your comments with actual receipts, and so
earning from a leadership perspective, earning literally means and this
is going back to your cancel culture question. Earning means
(19:48):
that you, as a leader, you establish the environment where
everyone feels seen, appreciated and psychologically safe.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So you get that's the E. You also have to
assure alignment.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Right, anybody needs to know what business are you in
and how does the make the business make money? And
also how does what they do impact how the business functions.
So every employee wants to know that and we leaders
need to do a better job communicating that.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
So that's what the A is for a sure alignment.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
The R stands for rally the troops because if you
can get people who feel like they're safe and they're
heard and their scene and they know what role they
play in the in the in the bigness of the organization,
and you rally them towards a cause.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
These people will be absolutely unstoppable.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
And then the last part is the inn in I'm
from aviation, so in means you need to.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Know how to navigate the narrows, right. You need to
know where we.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Go and how are we getting there, when are we
going to get there, and what all do we need
to get there efficiently?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
So all of that is what's required of the leader.
Now you do that.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And so because people talk about culture, culture, and they've
got these beautiful mission statements and you know, culture stuff
up on their walls. But if you it's not about
what's on the wall, it's how do you bet people?
That's about the culture. So you know, when I talk
about cancel culture, it's really like, let's let's get away
from just flinging the word around, right, and let's lean
(21:10):
into how do you treat people? And that's what this
book is all about. And it's not treating people from
your perspective, because your perspective is a moot point. It's
really all about how do people want to be treated,
And so you have to realize that you don't know
about their cultures, or their gender, or their life experience.
And because you don't know, it doesn't mean that people
(21:32):
want to sit around and hear you talk about what
you see you know should be done.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Or shouldn't be done.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
What people want is they want you to get to
know them, and you only do that by asking, listening,
and learning, and then you figure out those areas that
you can actually take action to help and support. That's
how we as leaders can actually be much more effective,
and we can have those types of teams that don't
quit because I know you were going to be asking
(21:57):
me about quiet quitting and revenge quitting.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Every industry right now is struggling with labor and talent,
and how you circumvent that is you make sure that
you're that leader that people want to work for, and
that your competitors want to steal all your people because
they're so trained and so really good at what they do,
but that your people don't want to leave because they're
getting from you as a leader in ally an ali
(22:24):
and their success and ally and their growth and ally
and their future. That's what people are looking for. Benefits
and dollars and cents are helpful, right. We want to
pay people what they're worth, and certainly always pay them
fairly and competitively. But really people are not just looking
for that, They're looking for leaders to step up. And
that's really why I wrote this book because I know
(22:45):
that it's a tough job to be a leader, but
I also know that it's not impossible.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Talking to Stephanie Chung, her book, Ally, Leadership is more
than a book, is a road map for leaders who
aspire to create an environment where every individual fills value,
youth and empowered to get the job done.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Now, were talking about revenge quitting.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Now in your book you talk about navigating complex conversations.
These are the conversations we kind of avoid, We kind
of ignore. Oh he's okay today, Oh she's okay to
borrow h I get to him next week.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
But there is a job market that.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Shrinks, and you can have somebody that you feel is
riding the ship with you to the end, and that
person's not there or that warning signs based on you
talking about navigating is in your book complex conversations?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You say twenty twenty five is gonna peak.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
This revenge quitting allied leadership. God us, Stephanie, guide us,
now take us up that runway. I'm some airlines talking
take off, take off, off, take off.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Okay, So yes, and it's not just me saying revenge
quitting is if you google it when you probably did, it.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Is a thing, right.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And so employees are you know, they've got a lot
of options.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
They've got a lot of options.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Unemployment is at as low, so people can certainly pack
up and go someplace else. So revenge quitting if they're
not getting their needs met, they're out of there. And
so where A lot of times what happens is leaders think,
oh well, if I just throw them more stuff, if
I just you know, have more free snacks available, or
if I you know, throw them a party once in
a while, or you know, all those things, or give
(24:22):
them more pay.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
All of those are good.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
I'm not saying don't do that, but I am saying
that what people really.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Want is they want your attention, leaders.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
They want your time, they want your energy, they want
your constructive feedback, they want.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Your challenge, they want they want you. That's really what
they want.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
And so we as leaders sometimes are so busy running
around like our hairs on fire that we forget job
number one.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
And job number one is to be a developer of people.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
That's the job, right, And so that's where how you
can minimize your revenge quitters, if you will, or even
the quiet acquitters, right, the ones who haven't actually quit yet,
but they're doing minimum work, so they're like one foot
out the door as it is. How you minimize all
that is you really get to know people for who
they are, right, You've got to meet them where they're at.
(25:11):
And so again I go back to the ask list
and learn, and then you take action.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And in my book, as you've read it, I tell
a lot of stories that you know and.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I actually and I also approach some of the things
that we don't want to talk about.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So there's the tough conversations.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
But on the flip side, you know what's been really
getting a lot of traction Rashan is I also talk
about when leaders have somebody on their team that they
don't actually like, right, because we always talk about employees
not like in the leader, but we don't talk about
leaders not liking an employee. And so I go there
in that conversation. I know it's a taboo conversation, but
(25:48):
it's one that needs to be discussed. And I give
my own example on how I failed at that miserably
with a particular person, and then what I needed to
do and what I did do to get that relationship
ship back on track, because that wasn't her responsibility, that
was my responsibility. I'm the leader, right So anyways, I
(26:08):
grew you a long answer about that, but right now, and.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I always tell people this, Stephanie, is that I tell
people all the time, ninety percent of the money you
make will be with people you don't like, a people
you don't care to be around ninety percent of the time.
That's the nature of the business. This business is not
and life is not about that. Knife is about your family,
your friends, and that's a very small circle when you
compare it to the other one hundred percent of that pie.
(26:34):
And when you were you, when you talk about leading
people who are not like you, let's use the word respect.
You're an African woman, and I love listening to you talk.
You know, you talk about you know, forty years ago
when I was a Logan airport with nobody out there
like me, a female African American. Look here, when they
made Top Gun to Move with Tom Cruise, it wasn't
(26:54):
a female pilot. Okay, the new version had a female pilot.
Change happened own the way the word respect in your business,
because that's what it is about. When you talking about
leading people who are not like you, it comes down
to respect. Stephanie and I want to make sure people
understand and do not undervalue the important of respect. I'll
call it the two rs, respect and relationship. As we
(27:17):
close out this interview, tell us about that yes.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yes, that's so good. That's so good.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
That is the key, because if you go into a
conversation with someone that you don't know anything about, the
goal isn't to go in with your preconceived notions, right,
or what you've believed about that particular group of people
or that particular gender or what have you. True allyship
is I'm going to go in and be completely transparent
(27:43):
that I don't know anything right, and so therefore I'm
going to ask those questions. I think what tends to
happen with people, and especially you know the way that
society is all about canceling of you. If you make
a mistake or you have a little misstep. I want
leaders to know that when you're literally applying ally leadership
and you're trying to ask and listen and learn and
(28:05):
take action, you're going to make mistakes. And so we
as society need to start giving people more grace and
stop canceling them when they make one little mistake. Nobody's perfect,
but what I find is people are much more forgiving
if they know that you're coming in with an attitude
of trying to learn, versus if you say the wrong thing,
(28:26):
they're less likely to cancel you because they bother you.
They don't want you to not say anything right like
they're not talking to them at all. And so it's
really important that we do a give and take. We're
we just have to do better as society. So with
that said, the biggest thing is respect because when you
think about if you're not like me and I know
nothing about you, then I'm going to come.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
In asking you basic questions.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
And that's okay because people can tell I always tell
people this is a head and heart issue.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
A lot of times we.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Just have approached it from a more of a head
ish you, but it's head and heart, which is really
what respect is, right.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I want to understand you.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
There's the logical part, But then I also really need
to be empathetic and understand that I don't know your life.
I have probably didn't have the same type of life.
Big experience doesn't make us good or bad, or one
more important than the other. None of that stuff actually matters.
What matters is how do I make sure that I
understand enough about you, especially if I'm the leader, that
(29:26):
I can know where I can actually add some value, right,
and I can take some action to help you and
your career, your journey, you know, your your goals, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's really what it's all about.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
When I think about the workplace and I think about
dynamic teams, and I think about those leaders that are really,
really really good, awesome leaders, is that they appreciate the
fact that, Okay, everybody in my team may be different.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
That's actually that's sign number one.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
If you a leader and your team looks and acts
and things like you, and that's not good. Right, So
you need to have a diverse team, and not diverse
in gender or race or you know, ethnic groups, but
diverse in thought process and communications style. I mean, you
want a team that knows how to win. And the
only way that you're going to get the most productive
team based on the research, is that everybody's at the
(30:14):
table with a different upbringing and perspective and expectations and
they think differently. That's when you get the best of
the best of the best, so that you can accomplish
your goals.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
So, really all that comes down to respect, because I
have to be able to hear if we always listen.
In business, we talk a lot about how important it
is to have a diverse team.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
What we don't talk about is how hard.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
It is to lead a diverse team because everybody is different, right,
So real leaders know how to lead a diverse team
and then draw out the best in every single person
because together you're you know, I would say if you
had a team and like let's say a sports team,
if the sports team a basketball team and everybody was
a forward, the team would never win, right, So you
(30:58):
have to have diversity on the team. That's true in sports,
it's true in business. So as leaders, we want to
figure out how do we diversify that team, and once
we do that, then we've got to make sure we
play people in the right position based on their talents,
their gifts, etc. All of that comes down from the
root of trust and respect. Right, I have to be
able to trust you with the position I'm getting ready
(31:19):
to put you in. But I also have to be
able to respect that you're different than me and maybe
somebody else on the team, and that's a good thing
and that's okay. So and going back to your relationship part,
how I actually can start to maneuver the relationship in
a good way so everybody wins is I have to
be able to ask, list and learn and then.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Take some action.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
And taking that action could be making sure that I'm
playing the right people in the right position so the
team wins.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
That's important.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
But also that I'm earning your respect because I'm earning it,
not because I deserve it because of my title. I'm
earning it because you actually have seen my heart that
I really do want to figure out and learn as
much about you as I possibly can so that I
can play you in the right position to set you
up to win, because if you win, I also win.
(32:08):
I'm the leader, right, my job is to make sure
that the company wins, and I do that by making
sure that you win first.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Her book is a great read.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Ally Leadership How to Lead People who are not like You,
Stephanie Chong, thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation Masterclass.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Thanks for having me. This was fun. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
This has been another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass
posted by me Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests
on the show today and thank you listening to your
audience now. If you want to listen to any episode
I want to be a guest on the show, visit
Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is money Making Conversation.
Join us next week and remember to always leave with
(32:51):
your gifts.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Keep winning.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Rashwan McDonald, the host of Money Making Conversations Masterclass,
where we encourage people to stop reading other people's success
stories and.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Start planning their own.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Listen up as I interview entrepreneurs from around the country,
talk to celebrities and ask them how they are running
their companies, and speak with dog profits who are making
a difference in their local communities. Now, sit back and
listen as we unlock the secrets to their success on
Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Hi, I'm Rushan McDonald, our host
(00:36):
of weekly Money Making Conversations Masterclass show. The interviews and
information that this show provides are for everyone. It's time
to stop reading other people's success stories and start living
your own. If you want to be a guest on
my show, please visit our website, Moneymakingconversations dot com and
click the be a Guest button. Now to the show.
(00:56):
My guest is the author of Ally Leadership, How to
Lead People who Are Not Like You. Here's a little
background on her. She's the first African American president of
a private aviation company and has more than thirty five
years of travel experience, which she began as a baggage handler.
This led her to top executive roles as president of
Jeftsweet and Chief Growth Officer at Will's Up. Please welcome
(01:20):
the Money Making Conversations Masterclass, Stephanie Chung.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you for having me with Seanna.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Okay, the name of your book, tell us how you
came over and the name of the book, let's dive
deep into.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
This book is a brilliant read. It's about leadership.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Is not when you hear that word how to lead
people who are not like you, being at your African American,
one would immediately go to race and this is not
what this book is about. This book is about communications.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
You thank you, Thank you sir, and thank you for
saying that, because that is the most important part that
I really want people to convey. The reason why I
named the book ally Leadership and not allyship right is
because ally, first of all, is an acronym, so it
stands for ask, lists and learn and you take action.
So to your point, the book is really a leadership book.
(02:06):
It's not a DEI book or anything like that. It's
a book for all leaders who want to be able
to lead people who are not like them. And the
reason why that's important Rushan is because right now we
have five soon to be six generations working, so that's
unheard of. We've got people from sixteen years old to
seventy five years old, right, And those of us in leadership,
(02:27):
we know that a zoomer thinks very different than a
boomer or so the inner generations in the marketplace, in
the workforce is really challenging for leaders. So that's the
first reason why I brote the book. The second reason
is we also have women as the majority of the population,
so we think differently, we communicate differently, we lead differently,
(02:48):
so that changes the dynamics in the workforce as well.
And then the last piece I want to really mention
is that the ethnic demographics are changing also, right, So
you have all the ethnic groups that are growing, non
ethnic groups shrinking, so that changes dynamics as well as
people with neurodiversity or people who have different abilities or
LGBTQ plus. So all said, those of us in leadership
(03:11):
are leading people who are not like each other, and
they're not like us. And so I come from an
industry where there's not a lot of people that look
like me, sound like me, act like me, etc. Don't
have my same background, so I have become really efficient
in how to lead people who are not like me,
And so I wrote the book as a tool for
today's leader to know how to lead today's modern force
(03:33):
and a modern workforce. So I really just wanted to
be a tool and hopes that it would help other
leaders be able to do it more, quicker, better, faster,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Cool, let's start some a couple of comments. I'm a
good listener, and you've brought up women and you say
women think differently?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah? How and who you when you said think differently?
Who you're saying referencing when you say to think differently?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
So when I say think differently, today's to day's leadership, Right,
it's primarily made up a majority of men, And so
women think differently than men and any of us that
you have any interaction, whether it be with our spouses
or kids, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
We know men and women think differently. Now what does
that mean in the workforce?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Though?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
So when you think of from a woman's perspective, we're
going to really for the most part, and I'm obviously
I'm generalizing, but we tend to look at the whole person, right, So, yes,
you may be my employee, but I also acknowledge the
fact that you were somebody's husband, or somebody's son, or
somebody's best friend, or somebody's father. So when I'm addressing you,
(04:35):
I'm actually addressing you as the entire person of who
you are versus just you work on my team type
of thing. So we women tend to, maybe as part
of our nurturing as well, we tend to look at
people as an entire you know, we say bring your
whole self to work.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
We actually look at you as a whole person.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
And that's a little bit different than perhaps what people
are used to with the traditional type of leadership that
has historically been in place.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Now, just later, everybody, I'm talking to Stephanie Chung her
book Ally Leadership, How to Lead People Who Are Not
like You. This book is not just about traditional leadership.
It's about revolutionizing leadership practices to be more effective in
a rapidly changing corporate world. Like she mentioned the just
racial different ethnic groups, the social issues that we're dealing with. Now,
(05:20):
this issue transitions transcends the category of race, gender, sexual orientation,
different abilities, and age. Now let's talk about age, because
I'm a big proponent of age should never be an excuse,
and people are somehow been told at sixty five there
is a check waiting on them for retirement. And you
know that's not true. We all know that's not true.
(05:42):
But somehow that message is not getting down to the masses.
But so people tend to think that they hit fifty,
they hit sixty, they hit seventy, their dreams have stopped.
Let's talk about the age process when it comes to
your book and what you message you was trying to
deliver to that audience.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Stephanie.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yes, So, first of all, I'm in my sixties and
I'm like, I'm telling you, I'm loving it. I feel
like I have more clarity, more energy. I mean, it's fantastic.
So my message to anyone regardless of the age, because
the reverse is true as well with Sean. Right, So
people think if you're too young, you can't lead, If
you're too old, you know, it's time for you to
get out.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
The truth of the matter is we're all living longer.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
You know, it's funny AARP thinks that the person who's
going to be one hundred and fifty is going to
actually make it to one hundred and fifty has already
been born. So really what that means is if you're
in your sixties or fifties or you know later, it's
no longer that you have to retire at sixty five.
I know a lot of people personally that their second
you know, dreams they're kind of who they are now,
(06:45):
actually started.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
When they were in their sixties.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So my message for people reading the book is it
really doesn't matter what your age is, because we're all
living longer. You know, today's sixty is really like yesterday's forty, right,
And so I just want people to know that it
doesn't really matter if you are a leader, and if
you feel like you're called for leadership, and whether that's
leading in a company or just leading yourself right, or
(07:08):
you're an entrepreneur, this guy's.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
The limit for you.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
There's no longer the thought process of oh I'm sixty
five and now I need to start to retire.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Now are you kidding me?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I mean, today's sixty five year old is like again
their second win.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
And I'd like to say I'm in my sixties to Stephanie,
So I think you and I may hit that sixty
one hundred and fifty, Okay, we might be in a
race for that one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Just let you know not I don't know who they
talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
For them to be talking about me and make me
talk about you, I'll be remissed. I know we're talking
about the book, but the fact that you were president
of Jet sweet chief gross officer, it will's up and
if the people are listening, I know everybody doesn't fly
fiber jets. This is like the green Daylight Cream, a
(07:56):
private jet travel that we're talking about. And as an
African America, as a female, tell us about that experience.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And I was reading that.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I read your book and I was that little pebble
beat bomb with that when you look up and down,
you know who is she out there on.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
The golf course?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Tell us about going from a baggage handler and then
you know, we all have dreams and people say I'm
gonna do this. People go yeah, right, and as you
start going up that ladder realizing the possibilities.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Let's share that moment.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
With us, because I think it's important that our audience,
whether they're black, white, Latino, younger, old, need to understand
that a dream can happen.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
But it's applied to work and relationships.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yes, yes, so thank you for that.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know, I always like to start off because you're right,
my career is very unique, right, and so I always
like to start off and give and give credit where
credit is due. My dad was a master sergeant in
the US Air Force, so I grew up around planes
my entire life. And really what that meant is I moved.
Also every two years of my life. I always lived
on active Air Force faces, so I heard planes taking
(08:59):
off and landing all the time, and so early on
I knew I wanted to be an aviation The problem, though, Ruschan, was.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
That I didn't know what I could do in aviation.
And the reason.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Why is because way back in the day, whenever you
would see aviation depicted in TV or film or magazines
or anything like that, any type of media, you would
always see if you were a man, you were a pilot,
or if you were a female, you were a flight attendant.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
But back in the day, none of those pictures ever
looked like me.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
And so though I knew I wanted to be an
aviation I really didn't know what was accessible to me
because I'd never seen a person of color or any
type of representation in as an aviator when I was
growing up, so I didn't know what was available to me.
That said, my very first job, to your point, I
ended up parking planes and load and luggage at the
Boston Logan.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Airport for a very big airline, and.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
I loved that job. Now here's what's really interesting, Ruchan.
Back then we're talking like.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Forty years ago.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Then women didn't work on the ramp, right, But I
felt really comfortable because I grew up around soldiers, so
I grew up around men. So I was like quite
comfortable working on the ramp.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Loved the job.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
But because I always also needed extra money, I would
go work upstairs at the ticket counter to make some
extra money and then check customers in for their flights, etc.
So one day I was up there, and you know, again,
I worked for a really big airline in the Boston area,
and so I would always see our executives flying in
and out of the airport, so I knew who they
were rouchamp, but I didn't think that they knew who
(10:33):
I was because I was a stick counterperson right or
working on the ramp.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And so one day this gentleman, his name was Jim.
I'll never forget Jim.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Jim was like this little, short white guy with a
deep Southern accent, and he came over to me when
I was checking customers in and he said, in his
Southern drawl, he said, you know, Stephanie, every time I
come to this airport, I see you, and I see
you checking customers in with a smile on your face.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I think we have you in the wrong position. I
think you should be in sales. Now. Up until that point,
I was really headed.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
More towards in operations, you know, type of career, and
I didn't know anything about sales, but I respected Jim.
And so with that said, you know, he and I
had a conversation and one thing led to nether and
I ended up, you know, then selling for the airlines
and then did that for many years, and then got
recruited into private aviation, and so started off in sales,
(11:25):
and then to your point, all the things that you
mentioned that you know, ended up going up the ladder
and ended up being one of the highest, if not
the highest ranked black.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Person in private aviation.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And so it's because though I started off like, let
me just start at the bottom, let me figure out
because I don't know what's successible, but here's what I
do know. I've got a good work ethic, I'm smart,
and I'm willing to put in the time, effort, energy,
et cetera in order to get into the position that
I want to be in now.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Early on Ruschard, I never.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Would have dreamed that I would be in the types
of positions that I ended up in. But it all
always starts with the first step. And I think that's
really what I would want lead your listeners to really
think about it. I didn't think, couldn't even think right
about where I would end up because I just didn't know.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I didn't know what was accessible.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
But I could think about the first step, right, And
I think sometimes people just don't take that first step.
They overthink it, they think too much about it. It's like,
just take the first step, take that step, and then
that leads you to all the other steps. So I
loved my career. I am still obviously still have a
foot in private aviation. I do some advisory board work
and whatnot, and so it's a fun career. And you
(12:34):
know this because you and I talked off camera. It's
an aspirational industry and what I mean by that is,
everybody either wants to fly in a private jet or
wants to have enough money to be able to buy
a private jet. So it's very aspirational and so it's
a little bit different than most careers.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
But I have loved it.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I've loved my industry, and thankfully the industry has loved
to be back as well.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, let's understand this is Stephanie Chong in the business
that you have Delta, you have American Airlines, you have
private travel, which is very unique, which is very specific,
but they have an audience out there and it's not
celebrity driven.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I'm just letting everybody know this is not It's so.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Many just regular looking people who are flying private jets.
It will shock you. These are the people who have
hedge frogs. These are people who are executives. These are
people who are just regular everyday people who have worked hard,
want to move fast, and cannot do the security reasons
hang out with the regular folks.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They just cannot.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And that business is being being led by a person
of your color makes me mad because I hadn't met
you before, because Steve Harveys should have met you.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I'm gonna make sure Steven A. Smith knows about.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You because these are people who fly these planes and
use these planes and don't know that a voice of
your magnitude was important to our participation as passengers.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Now let's get.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Back to I got to you know, the think about it,
Oh my show, Money Making Conversations master Class.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You know, I have a very diverse audience. Six percent
African America, twenty percent white, twelve percent Latino. You know,
fifty two percent male, forty eight percent female, sixty five
percent of my audience is under the age of forty five.
You are a person that we expire, a drever who
comes in. Did not allow color to denounce your opportunities,
but allow your personality. And when people gave you that
(14:32):
moment and since were I always talk about this show, Stephanie,
and I want to talk about that a little bit longer.
Somebody offered you something you could have been intimidated by
and said, oh no, I never thought about that, because,
like you said, you were headed to operations sales. Talk
about that moment a little bit more detailed, because that
was the turning point in your life and there up
(14:52):
there have been others along the way, but that was
the one moment that made you really go home and
sit on the side of your bed.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely. And here's what's really interesting. I
want to even take it back because because you have
such a diverse audience, which makes me very happy, by
the way, but you know, you just never know where
your opportunities are going to come from. So here was
a gentleman who was born and raised in the South
in the nineteen forties, and here I am, you know,
an African American girl born and raised all over the place.
(15:23):
Because of my military background. You would think we wouldn't
have a lot in common, right, But the truth of
the matter is he saw something because of all the
things you and I talked about before being able to
you know, working hard, having a good attitude.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
You know, when the opportunity struck, I was. I was
ready for that conversation.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
But you know, I also appreciate him that he was
a person paying attention. The first thing he said to
me is every time I come through, I see you, right.
And so one of the things that I always like
to encourage people is you just never know where that
opportunity is going to come up.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You never know who, you know, God puts in your path.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
That may be the person that speaks one sentence or
one has one conversation that truly changes the trajectory of
your career. And that's what happened for me. And so
with that in mind, what I would just tell people is,
you know what, grow where you're planted. Wherever you are now,
it is probably not where you're going to be two years,
five years from now. And so what you want to
(16:18):
do is always remember that you're your personal brand. Yes,
you work for a brand, but you have a personal
brand as well, and so what do you want your
personal brand to stand for? And then you work every
single day to honor that your personal brand. So for me,
my personal brand I really wanted to stand for. You know,
I treat people kindly, that I work really hard. My
(16:41):
yes is my yes, my no is my no. There's
certain things that I really am intentional about when it
comes to my brand. So therefore, when the opportunity comes
up or in a lot of times too, you know, Rashan,
we always have to remember we may not be in
the room when our personal brand is.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Being discussed, right, but.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
How then can you make sure that when you're not
in the room and your brand is being discussed. How
do you want people to discuss it? And that's what
you're doing every single day at work.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more
money Making Conversations Masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making
Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashaan McDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass
continues online at Moneymakingconversations dot com and follow money Making
(17:31):
Conversations Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Now here's up to interesting in your book because it's
been in the media over the last couple of years.
Counsel culture, and you've taken the time of talking about
how to steer clear of counsel culture.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
First, I want to know. I want you to explain
to people.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
What you your possession of counsel culture so that we
all be on the same page, and how do we
steer clear of that because that can't impact how you
lead people who are not like you.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Flor absolutely, and so you know what you want to
do when you think about leading people who are not
like you, at its core, it doesn't actually matter, you know,
in regards to if they're different than you, because most
likely they are going to be different than you. Just
because of what's happening in the world today. And so
one of the things I mentioned earlier the acronym for all.
I was asked listen, learn, you take action. The reason
(18:21):
why that's really important is because I was getting tired
of having people self anoint themselves as an.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Ally, right, right, and so that is that's crazy.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And really what I mean by that is, you know,
I speak as a profession That's what I do, is
I speak, and so often I would, you know, be
done with the speech. Have people come up during the
meet and greets and they would say, especially men, oh
my god, Steph, I love you know everything you just said.
And I'm an ally. You know, I'm married, I've got
three daughters, and I'm an ally. I'm like, I'm all in.
(18:51):
And my follow up is always the same. I always
say to the raushan like, thank you so much. I'm
so glad to hear that you're an ally. Tell me
what you've done this week.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
To show your ally ship.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Crickets, right, people don't have anything that they've anything tangible.
So really what I'm really pushing for leaders is people
want to know the receipts that you have to back
up this statement, because you can't just call yourself an ally, right,
I can't call myself a nice person. You can call
me a nice person, like, oh, I've met Stephanie. She
seems like she's a nice person. But I can't self
(19:24):
annoint myself and it's a nice person. And the same
is true with ally, and so you have to earn
the right to be called an ally. And that's the
culture that we're living in today, right. Everybody wants you
to back up your comments with actual receipts, and so
earning from a leadership perspective, earning literally means and this
is going back to your cancel culture question. Earning means
(19:48):
that you, as a leader, you establish the environment where
everyone feels seen, appreciated and psychologically safe.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So you get that's the E. You also have to
assure alignment.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Right, anybody needs to know what business are you in
and how does the make the business make money? And
also how does what they do impact how the business functions.
So every employee wants to know that and we leaders
need to do a better job communicating that.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
So that's what the A is for a sure alignment.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
The R stands for rally the troops because if you
can get people who feel like they're safe and they're
heard and their scene and they know what role they
play in the in the in the bigness of the organization,
and you rally them towards a cause.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
These people will be absolutely unstoppable.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
And then the last part is the inn in I'm
from aviation, so in means you need to.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Know how to navigate the narrows, right. You need to
know where we.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Go and how are we getting there, when are we
going to get there, and what all do we need
to get there efficiently?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
So all of that is what's required of the leader.
Now you do that.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And so because people talk about culture, culture, and they've
got these beautiful mission statements and you know, culture stuff
up on their walls. But if you it's not about
what's on the wall, it's how do you bet people?
That's about the culture. So you know, when I talk
about cancel culture, it's really like, let's let's get away
from just flinging the word around, right, and let's lean
(21:10):
into how do you treat people? And that's what this
book is all about. And it's not treating people from
your perspective, because your perspective is a moot point. It's
really all about how do people want to be treated,
And so you have to realize that you don't know
about their cultures, or their gender, or their life experience.
And because you don't know, it doesn't mean that people
(21:32):
want to sit around and hear you talk about what
you see you know should be done.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Or shouldn't be done.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
What people want is they want you to get to
know them, and you only do that by asking, listening,
and learning, and then you figure out those areas that
you can actually take action to help and support. That's
how we as leaders can actually be much more effective,
and we can have those types of teams that don't
quit because I know you were going to be asking
(21:57):
me about quiet quitting and revenge quitting.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Every industry right now is struggling with labor and talent,
and how you circumvent that is you make sure that
you're that leader that people want to work for, and
that your competitors want to steal all your people because
they're so trained and so really good at what they do,
but that your people don't want to leave because they're
getting from you as a leader in ally an ali
(22:24):
and their success and ally and their growth and ally
and their future. That's what people are looking for. Benefits
and dollars and cents are helpful, right. We want to
pay people what they're worth, and certainly always pay them
fairly and competitively. But really people are not just looking
for that, They're looking for leaders to step up. And
that's really why I wrote this book because I know
(22:45):
that it's a tough job to be a leader, but
I also know that it's not impossible.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Talking to Stephanie Chung, her book, Ally, Leadership is more
than a book, is a road map for leaders who
aspire to create an environment where every individual fills value,
youth and empowered to get the job done.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Now, were talking about revenge quitting.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Now in your book you talk about navigating complex conversations.
These are the conversations we kind of avoid, We kind
of ignore. Oh he's okay today, Oh she's okay to
borrow h I get to him next week.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
But there is a job market that.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Shrinks, and you can have somebody that you feel is
riding the ship with you to the end, and that
person's not there or that warning signs based on you
talking about navigating is in your book complex conversations?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
You say twenty twenty five is gonna peak.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
This revenge quitting allied leadership. God us, Stephanie, guide us,
now take us up that runway. I'm some airlines talking
take off, take off, off, take off.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Okay, So yes, and it's not just me saying revenge
quitting is if you google it when you probably did, it.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Is a thing, right.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And so employees are you know, they've got a lot
of options.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
They've got a lot of options.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Unemployment is at as low, so people can certainly pack
up and go someplace else. So revenge quitting if they're
not getting their needs met, they're out of there. And
so where A lot of times what happens is leaders think,
oh well, if I just throw them more stuff, if
I just you know, have more free snacks available, or
if I you know, throw them a party once in
a while, or you know, all those things, or give
(24:22):
them more pay.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
All of those are good.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
I'm not saying don't do that, but I am saying
that what people really.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Want is they want your attention, leaders.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
They want your time, they want your energy, they want
your constructive feedback, they want.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Your challenge, they want they want you. That's really what
they want.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
And so we as leaders sometimes are so busy running
around like our hairs on fire that we forget job
number one.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
And job number one is to be a developer of people.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
That's the job, right, And so that's where how you
can minimize your revenge quitters, if you will, or even
the quiet acquitters, right, the ones who haven't actually quit yet,
but they're doing minimum work, so they're like one foot
out the door as it is. How you minimize all
that is you really get to know people for who
they are, right, You've got to meet them where they're at.
(25:11):
And so again I go back to the ask list
and learn, and then you take action.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
And in my book, as you've read it, I tell
a lot of stories that you know and.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I actually and I also approach some of the things
that we don't want to talk about.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So there's the tough conversations.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
But on the flip side, you know what's been really
getting a lot of traction Rashan is I also talk
about when leaders have somebody on their team that they
don't actually like, right, because we always talk about employees
not like in the leader, but we don't talk about
leaders not liking an employee. And so I go there
in that conversation. I know it's a taboo conversation, but
(25:48):
it's one that needs to be discussed. And I give
my own example on how I failed at that miserably
with a particular person, and then what I needed to
do and what I did do to get that relationship
ship back on track, because that wasn't her responsibility, that
was my responsibility. I'm the leader, right So anyways, I
(26:08):
grew you a long answer about that, but right now, and.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I always tell people this, Stephanie, is that I tell
people all the time, ninety percent of the money you
make will be with people you don't like, a people
you don't care to be around ninety percent of the time.
That's the nature of the business. This business is not
and life is not about that. Knife is about your family,
your friends, and that's a very small circle when you
compare it to the other one hundred percent of that pie.
(26:34):
And when you were you, when you talk about leading
people who are not like you, let's use the word respect.
You're an African woman, and I love listening to you talk.
You know, you talk about you know, forty years ago
when I was a Logan airport with nobody out there
like me, a female African American. Look here, when they
made Top Gun to Move with Tom Cruise, it wasn't
(26:54):
a female pilot. Okay, the new version had a female pilot.
Change happened own the way the word respect in your business,
because that's what it is about. When you talking about
leading people who are not like you, it comes down
to respect. Stephanie and I want to make sure people
understand and do not undervalue the important of respect. I'll
call it the two rs, respect and relationship. As we
(27:17):
close out this interview, tell us about that yes.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yes, that's so good. That's so good.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
That is the key, because if you go into a
conversation with someone that you don't know anything about, the
goal isn't to go in with your preconceived notions, right,
or what you've believed about that particular group of people
or that particular gender or what have you. True allyship
is I'm going to go in and be completely transparent
(27:43):
that I don't know anything right, and so therefore I'm
going to ask those questions. I think what tends to
happen with people, and especially you know the way that
society is all about canceling of you. If you make
a mistake or you have a little misstep. I want
leaders to know that when you're literally applying ally leadership
and you're trying to ask and listen and learn and
(28:05):
take action, you're going to make mistakes. And so we
as society need to start giving people more grace and
stop canceling them when they make one little mistake. Nobody's perfect,
but what I find is people are much more forgiving
if they know that you're coming in with an attitude
of trying to learn, versus if you say the wrong thing,
(28:26):
they're less likely to cancel you because they bother you.
They don't want you to not say anything right like
they're not talking to them at all. And so it's
really important that we do a give and take. We're
we just have to do better as society. So with
that said, the biggest thing is respect because when you
think about if you're not like me and I know
nothing about you, then I'm going to come.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
In asking you basic questions.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
And that's okay because people can tell I always tell
people this is a head and heart issue.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
A lot of times we.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Just have approached it from a more of a head
ish you, but it's head and heart, which is really
what respect is, right.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I want to understand you.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
There's the logical part, But then I also really need
to be empathetic and understand that I don't know your life.
I have probably didn't have the same type of life.
Big experience doesn't make us good or bad, or one
more important than the other. None of that stuff actually matters.
What matters is how do I make sure that I
understand enough about you, especially if I'm the leader, that
(29:26):
I can know where I can actually add some value, right,
and I can take some action to help you and
your career, your journey, you know, your your goals, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's really what it's all about.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
When I think about the workplace and I think about
dynamic teams, and I think about those leaders that are really,
really really good, awesome leaders, is that they appreciate the
fact that, Okay, everybody in my team may be different.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
That's actually that's sign number one.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
If you a leader and your team looks and acts
and things like you, and that's not good. Right, So
you need to have a diverse team, and not diverse
in gender or race or you know, ethnic groups, but
diverse in thought process and communications style. I mean, you
want a team that knows how to win. And the
only way that you're going to get the most productive
team based on the research, is that everybody's at the
(30:14):
table with a different upbringing and perspective and expectations and
they think differently. That's when you get the best of
the best of the best, so that you can accomplish
your goals.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
So, really all that comes down to respect, because I
have to be able to hear if we always listen.
In business, we talk a lot about how important it
is to have a diverse team.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
What we don't talk about is how hard.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
It is to lead a diverse team because everybody is different, right,
So real leaders know how to lead a diverse team
and then draw out the best in every single person
because together you're you know, I would say if you
had a team and like let's say a sports team,
if the sports team a basketball team and everybody was
a forward, the team would never win, right, So you
(30:58):
have to have diversity on the team. That's true in sports,
it's true in business. So as leaders, we want to
figure out how do we diversify that team, and once
we do that, then we've got to make sure we
play people in the right position based on their talents,
their gifts, etc. All of that comes down from the
root of trust and respect. Right, I have to be
able to trust you with the position I'm getting ready
(31:19):
to put you in. But I also have to be
able to respect that you're different than me and maybe
somebody else on the team, and that's a good thing
and that's okay. So and going back to your relationship part,
how I actually can start to maneuver the relationship in
a good way so everybody wins is I have to
be able to ask, list and learn and then.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Take some action.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
And taking that action could be making sure that I'm
playing the right people in the right position so the
team wins.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
That's important.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
But also that I'm earning your respect because I'm earning it,
not because I deserve it because of my title. I'm
earning it because you actually have seen my heart that
I really do want to figure out and learn as
much about you as I possibly can so that I
can play you in the right position to set you
up to win, because if you win, I also win.
(32:08):
I'm the leader, right, my job is to make sure
that the company wins, and I do that by making
sure that you win first.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Her book is a great read.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Ally Leadership How to Lead People who are not like You,
Stephanie Chong, thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation Masterclass.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Thanks for having me. This was fun. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
This has been another edition of Money Making Conversation Masterclass
posted by me Rashaun McDonald. Thank you to our guests
on the show today and thank you listening to your
audience now. If you want to listen to any episode
I want to be a guest on the show, visit
Moneymakingconversations dot com. Our social media handle is money Making Conversation.
Join us next week and remember to always leave with
(32:51):
your gifts.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Keep winning.
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