Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are live in studio today and we're generally speaking,
we're always live, but we may not be in the
in the actual studio, but we are. You can find
us on gun Radio Utah Live Facebook.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Video streaming. Yeah, if you want to see gun Radio
Utah kind of.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
What we do in the background in between breaks.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, our snacks, our choice of snacks.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Bill Patterson sitting across me, Director Utah Shooting Sports Council,
and our very special guest. If you joined in on
the gun Radio Utah Facebook page, we'll all wave. And
so that's me waving, Bill waving, and that is doctor
John Lott, head of the Crime Prevention Research Center. And
(00:43):
go to crimeresearch dot org and you find all the
articles you can search for stuff fantastic. And we're going
to have doctor Lott talking about Well, John, you said
we could talk about anything, but and you always say that,
and so but I wanted to find something the most interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We can talk about the weather. You want to talk
about the.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We want to talk about the weather as it relates
to guns. It's it's not too cold outside to go
shooting outside. So I want to talk about data distortions,
and so we're going to bring in second segment on that,
but anything in first, third, or fourth segments you can
jump in and we can get your insight. So we are,
in fact, we're going to be talking about HB four
(01:28):
twenty five, which is the which is the fee increase
for concealed carry. So we're going to pay the man.
So we're gonna be we're gonna be talking about that.
We're gonna be talking about we're going to have a
rundown of I don't know, ten or eleven or fifteen
or so bills, just very quickly on most, but we're
going to do a deeper dive into HB one thirty three,
(01:53):
great bill, HB four twenty five really bad.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Bill, so that balances it out.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
No, it's it's well, I mean good and bad.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I mean we've got one.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Bad and the doodle.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, and so yeah, I'm not a fan of for
twenty five. Nor should our listeners be. Whether you're in
Utah or maybe streaming this over iHeartMedia and you're out
of state with Utah and silkery permit, this does horrible
things to our out of state folks, which ultimately I
see will happen next year.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh you think so?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh? Absolutely absolutely, Well, we've got some we've got some
interesting insight.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And what we're going to do is we're going to
tell you the bill numbers. We're going to tell you
where they are in the system, and tell you who
to contact, how to contact them, and what to say
essentially to uh to either move the bill along or
to get it killed. And you know, talking about getting
(02:53):
it killed. So I got I got bill, I got
yelled at, you know, I got yelled at up at
the on the hill. Which time, Uh, pretty much, it's
a it's a it's multi times during the day each day. Well, so, yes,
I work with people on their bills. And some of
these are bad bills. Some of these are pills that
we don't like. And our motto is, we work with
(03:17):
that bill. We try to get say a bad bill,
We try to get that bill as good as we
possibly can before we kill it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And that's our mottol.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Kind of reminds me of a killer. Well, playing with
a seal. Oh really, yeah, you tenderize it just as
much to you either.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Really, bill.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
See now all those seal loving UH folks are just well.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
It's pretty much I mean, but it's it's pretty much
the same thing. Like you said, we're gonna we'll work
with them, and you know, i'd love to see some
of these representatives come out with a good bill. I mean,
I would love to, but they never come to us
initially when they when well many of.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Many of them do. But yeah, speaking of killing baby seals,
what have you got.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Well, we're just in the waiting period right now for
the bare draw results. But also just mark this on
your calendar for you big game hunters. March twentieth, applications
will be open or the portal will be open so
you can put in for your big game tags. Hopefully
you can draw something out like me, I probably will
(04:26):
never draw anything else again.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So is there their small game and then there's big game?
Is there super big game? Like extra large game?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah? Now you're looking at me. You know, people cannot
see you roll your eyes on.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
They can on the camera if they're watching.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, if they're watching, Go to gun ready to Facebook page.
You can get that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
All right, I'm going to jump into it because we've
still got we've got some time. If you want to
follow along on the legislative website, go to l e
as in legislature l et Utah dot gov and set
up an account, set up an account under your email
or whatever, and you can follow these bills. One of
(05:10):
the first we've got I don't know how many thirty
something thirty five bills that we're watching, but here's the
ones that are in play right now.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
HB one oh four.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
If you see a zero four after it or a
zero something, it means it's a substitute. It's been changed
significantly enough firearm safety and school's amendments.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It is.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It is past the House Committee, it passed the House floor.
It made some changes, but not significant enough to really
worry about. It is now in the Senate Standing Committee
in Government Ops. Kind of a weird committee, but we're
gonna be We're gonna be going back to Government Ops
for one thirty three HB one thirty three. But anyway,
(05:51):
it's it's an interesting I just thought it's a weird
place to have.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
That bill.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So but anyways, we've got my senator and you went
to county round Winterton, Senator Winterton, and I've got Senator
Mike mcchel, Senator Scott Sandel, Senator Daniel Thatcher, and Senator
Evan Vickers in that committee. Those are the ours, those
are the ones that we need to influence. And I'll
(06:19):
tell you right now. So you can go to it's
HB one oh four, it's in and so you go
on to email. So you're going to go to committees,
go to standing committees, or just find when you go
to committees, that'll have the whole list you want, Senate
Government Operations Committee and you can click there, follow the
links and you can click on those individuals, find their
email and send them an email right there from the site. Okay,
(06:43):
and tell them you like one oh four to send
it through without any unfriendly amendments. Now, bill, when I
say unfriendly amendments, do I have to explain that?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
What do you think? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I think so there there can be amendments that can
be editor recommended to these bills. What we mean by
unfriendly amendments. Amendments would be what the original sponsor would say, Yeah,
I can live with that, or deal with that, or
it's an.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Appropriate it's a fix that something. But let's say, uh,
typically it's one of the d's, but it's not always.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It could be one of the urs Democrats versus Republicans.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And that that that promotes an amendment or a change
or a substitute that takes away from the intent of
the bill. Something they want to add that's terrible, and
that would be And typically you look to the sponsor,
whether it be on the House or the floor of
the House or the Senate or in committee, and they'll say, well,
(07:46):
I think that's a friendly amendment, or they'll say, you
know what, I'm going to take that as an unfriendly amendment.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I would I would urge you to vote against that amendment.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So that's why I say, let's urge one O four
in Government Senate Government Options Committee to pass without any
unfriendly amendments.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And always we want it to pass without unfriendly amendments.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I would think, Okay, well, except for for twenty five,
we're gonna we're gonna encourage unfriendly amendments. And now, all right,
what do we got. We've got ve got a little
teeny bit of time. All right, the next one I'll
go to, Well, it's not the next one firearm safety incentives. Oh, Bill,
I wanted to say one Happy birthday to Hannah, your daughter,
(08:27):
and two.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yes, happy twenty four for you, Hannah.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And two as appropriate, two twenty two. This is happy
second amendment day two to two to two and welcome. Yeah,
anyways two two two two five.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Speaking of which, HB one forty three, good bill Firearm
Safety Incentives by Representative Matt McPherson. This will make a
tax holiday on every two twenty two February twenty second
for buying gun safes and firearm stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So anyway, that is, that is on the third reading calendar,
so that is in the House. It's number twenty one.
So it's probably going to be heard Monday, Tuesday or
at the latest Wednesday, because they do that. We have
until March seventh to get all these bills passed by
the way Friday March seventh at midnight.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And good bill.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Again, encourage your representatives to vote for this bill, HB
one three Firearm Safety Incentives and pass it without any
unfriendly amendments. And what do we got? So yeah, so
that and then it'll go on to the Senate. All right,
when we come back, we're gonna we're just going to
(09:42):
go straight to doctor John Lott. We're going to talk
about data distortions. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Hey, welcome back. To gun Radio UTAB Bill Peterson, director
of Utah Shooing Sports Council, and across from me Clark
the a Potion, the chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council,
and hey, just real quick, definitely go run out and
if you're in need of ammunition, if you need some
brass Easter eggs or Valentines, they're on sale.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Valentine, well it's.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Passed, yeah, it's so, they're on sale. Okay, all right,
go with this flash. My brass has brass Easter eggs
and Valentines on sale, leftovers from the holidays.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Okay, we haven't quite gotten the Easter yet, but we
wait past Valentine.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We didn't need getting my bad Okay, you can go
check them out at four thirty eight West one hundred
and twenty third South and Draper or down in Orum
eighteen o two sand Hill Road. Obviously, go in and
check out see what they got. They got really good
deals on their nine mil forty five you can get
(10:53):
it in can packages and all that. I noticed they
had some six y five creed more that was going
at a really good rice. Give him a shout and
make sure you get on their text notification lists. So
when they add these sales, you're the first to know
and you can run in there and grab your.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Does anybody even shoot six or five Creed?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I mean really yes, I thought PRC just like took
that over. Anyway, it did for me.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
But I still shoot Creed. I've Creed. I love it anyway, Creed, Creed, Creed, Creed. Okay, Hey,
we got a great guest here and doctor John Lott
Crime Research Labs.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Lab, Crime Prevention Research.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Center Center, and we are so glad to have you
with us today. And now you had some big news
that you kind of announced it not too long ago.
You are now here to straighten out Utah, I moved
to move to Salt Lake in any case, Yes, that's awesome.
And uh you've been here for what just a little
(11:56):
over a month now. I got here near the beginning
of the game January. Well it wasn't exactly voluntary to
begin with. But uh oh, I don't even want to
go down that path. But but we're glad to have
you here. Glad to be here. Yeah, beautiful state. Well,
you couldn't be in a better state for gun rights,
(12:18):
I believe in my take, what do you actually from Montana.
Montana was pretty good. Okay.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
There are a couple of things that you utaus better on, okay,
and where can we improve?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But I mean Montana is such a small I mean,
what do you got like one hundred people there?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You know total?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
I think a little bit more than that. Oh not
much though, Congressman, but about one point one million one.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Point okay, so we're like three and a half times that.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, so and we're at any state, John, I want
you to discuss so when people if people go to
crime research dot org, they can get all these articles.
One of the articles that really really stood out is
there's all this talk about Trump's new administration and he's
he's given marching orders to DJ to the and to
(13:05):
the new to PAMBONDBI, given the marching orders to to
find all these things and do this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
But you brought up something that I.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Don't know, maybe is even more important talking about crime data.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well, I think they're all important.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
The executive order goes through lots of rules and laws
and international agreements that past administrations have made that there's
have thirty days to identify them all and do it.
But look, there's been a lot of talk about the
politicization of the Department of Justice and the FBI, and
(13:43):
you know, they're talking about things like going after Catholics
or school board people that go to school boards, or
you know, the weaponization, you know, spying on a presidential campaign.
All those things are important, But one thing that I
wanted to just put on people's radar is that there's
a lot of politicization of the data, distortion of the
(14:05):
data that the FBI and other agencies put out. And
you know, if you let people distort the data, they
can distort the debate. I mean, we're not going to
be able to go and properly figure out what to
do to defend people and make them safer reduce crime
if we can't rely on the data that the government
(14:27):
puts out on that. So I mainly focused on the
FBI when I was working in the Department of Justice
during the first Trump term. I had some interactions with
the FBI that were disturbing, and so I wrote about
some of that and some of the other things. You know,
just this last year, I think the FBI was influencing
(14:53):
the presidential election. You know, they you know, for a
year we were having news story after news headline coming
out saying crime has fallen, but people mistakenly think that
it's increasing, and they were relying on data from twenty
twenty two. The data comes out about a year after
the year that the crime data is for. So in
(15:17):
October twenty twenty three, they came out with data for
twenty twenty two saying that violent crime during twenty twenty
two had fallen by two point one percent. And so
he had all these headlines when David Muir was fact
checking the president during the presidential debate that he had
with Kamala Harris. That's the data that was the finalized data.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
That he was referring to.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
The problem is is that in September of this last year,
the FBI came out with its data for twenty twenty three,
but it secretly updated the data for twenty twenty two,
where it went from a two point one percent drop
to a four point five percent increase, and no mention
of that in their press release and the report itself.
(16:03):
There was one footnote that just vaguely said we've updated
the data for twenty twenty two, no mention about why
they increased it, no mention about the change that had occurred.
And then even when the media started reaching out to
the FBI about this, saying it looks like you've changed
(16:24):
it from a drop to an increase, the FBI was
extremely vague. They wouldn't come out and just say yes,
we did that. All they would do is make statements
saying we stand by our data that's there.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And well, I found, if I may, John, I found
that they changed their tone and they updated their figures
after you called them on it.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
No, I mean, I discovered it, but it's more just
because I'm a nerd and just you know, on a
Saturday night, we'll go and look at old crime file
datas from the FBI.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Who doesn't do that?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And I noticed that they did. I didn't even see
that footnote to begin with in their original report. But
the stuff that I had went viral. Joe Rogan spent
like three and a half minutes or so talking to
Trump about the changes. Elon Musk retweeted a couple times.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
You had.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Fox must have had like about six different news segments
on it. But outside of kind of the conservative bubble
that was there, the mainstream media, the New York Times,
Washing Post and what have you completely ignored it. And
I think part of that they were able to ignore
it because the FBI just wouldn't explicitly come out and
(17:43):
say that they had changed it if they came out
and explicitly put that in a press release. I mean,
my own guess is that ninety five or more percent
of reporters don't do anything more than read the press
release that's there. But even the few that may have
looked at the actual report itself, you know, they wouldn't
(18:03):
understand the importance that was there. So that's just one example. Unfortunately,
there are other examples that are there. When I was
at the Department of Justice, I was supposed to look
at their active shooting reports and it just to commence,
and you know, and it's just not the media, but
the courts rely on this stuff. So the FBI claims
(18:25):
it over the last ten years, only four percent of
the active shooting attacks were stopped by civilians with concealed
carry permits. So it's like they claimed they're like fourteen cases.
I nobody needs to take my word for it. My
center finds one hundred and eighty. Part of them, they
most of them, they missed, some of them, they misinterpreted
(18:47):
that were there, or misidentified and so rather than four percent,
I think it's about thirty six percent.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But then even more important is.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I've argued with the FBI you should only look at
cases where people are allowed to carry. You have to
cut out the gun free zones, and then it's over
fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
We're stopped.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Okay, when we come back, Actually, before we go, John,
you do fantastic research at Crime Prevention Research Center.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
How do people donate? How to people? You have a Well,
I'll just tell you.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
I hope people can sign up for emails. But you
can go to crimeresearch dot org. Crimeresearch dot org and
there's a subscribe and donate buttons at the top of
the page.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Hit that subscribe, hit that donate button. When we come
back on Gun Radio Utah, John's gonna stay here because
we haven't given him the code get out, and we
have lots more to go.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So stay tuned. Welcome back to gun Radio Utah. O.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
There.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I know, apologies and Bill, you were just talking about guns.
I'll talk about guns. Did you do you have anybody
that's messed with your guns? Broken them, messed them up? Dingdom,
get it over to the gunsmith. You knew where I
was going to get them over to the gunsmith at
Sportsman's Warehouse. They're everywhere. Well, the gunsmith location is actually
(20:04):
just one place. It's sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West
in Salt Lake City. Their phone number, by the way,
eight oh one three zero four eighty seventy. That's eight
zero seven zero now. Or but when I say everywhere,
you can take them into any of the over one
hundred and forty six Sportsmen's Warehouse locations because they own
the gunsmith, and you can tell them to get your
(20:26):
gun the way you want it. And I mean anything
stock work, metal work, bolt work, fixing work, drilling, sanding,
whatever needs to be done to fix your gun the
way you want it. The gunsmith at Sportsmen's Warehouse. All right,
So I'm going to get into these bills here now
one thirty three. This is my rant time bill, and I.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Want I want you to we want rant. In fact,
I'm going to invite John to rant as well as
we talk about these hes just came from Montana.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
He doesn't rant. John doesn't rant.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
These are some pretty crazy things.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I mean, if John, if you feel like granting, you
may go right ahead. But right now it's Clark's rant,
all right, one thirty three HB. One thirty three, Write
that down and support that good bill right now. It
is a great bill. Right now, it is a great bill. Yes,
it's nine thousand lines, two hundred and sixty three pages.
(21:21):
But the House Majority whip leadership in the House is
promoting this. This is a representative Kerry and Lizzenby. And
essentially what it does bill, you know, we have state
preemption that means I can go from Logan all the
way down to Saint George, Tuilla to Vernal, if you will,
and have the exact same gun laws in every single city, county, municipality,
(21:47):
school district, you name it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
They're all the saying that's preemption.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And essentially what we're trying to do with it, it's
along those lines, is get rid of these carve outs.
It's like when people say, yeah, it's like, I believe
in the Second Amendment. But there's any time you hear
somebody say I believe in the Second Amendment and they
(22:13):
don't do a full stop, hard period right there and
they insert a butt it always stinks, Oh, absolutely, because
what they're essentially doing in many times is saying, but
Let's do a carve out for eighteen year olds. Let's
do a carve out for rifles that we don't like
(22:36):
the look of. Let's do a carve out for this location,
say at this at this university or something. Let's do
a carve out for it has to be unloaded, and
then we're okay with it.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
What represented Listenbee's bill does is treat all firearms the same.
It treats essentially anybody eighteen and over the same. It
treats your car the same as out side your car
the same. It treats all public areas the same. Uh,
except for, of course, the federal restrictions. You know, post
(23:10):
offices K through twelve schools, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Uh, office restriction may not be around much longer?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Is that right? Tell me more?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Uh? Well, there was a judge's decision recently that said that, uh, uh,
you know, if you look at the historical standard and
if you look at kind of the logic for it,
there's no reason to go in and lump in uh
post offices with you know, uh, courthouses or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Good. I agree, I agree watching.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Judge right now. But wasn't it though? We'll be looking
at It wasn't the post office thing because of hostile
work environments at going postal, going postal.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And that was the postal workers though.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, and that's where the term came from.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So yeah, okay, you brought it.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I'm sure that would stop it.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
You know, if you declare it a gun free zone,
I'm sure nobody would take in their weapon.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
There, No, no, no, no no, they would not, certainly
not those that were seeming to do that. All right,
HB one thirty three. Let me tell you where one
thirty three is right now. It passed the House committee,
it passed the House floor. It we had a little
we had to give it a little nudge, and when
I say little, I mean a big nudge to get
it out of Senate Rules Committee where it was sitting
(24:22):
and it was stewing and it wasn't moving and there
was no reason for it. We gave it a nudge,
and low and behold, it got moved to Senate Government
Operations Committee, remember the one I told you about. All right,
you need to now contact your state senators and I'll
tell you, well, actually I don't care if your state
senator is on that committee or not. You need to
(24:42):
contact everybody. Well, I'm going to give you five people
a contact.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Don't they normally ignore people people from outside their district?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
No, no, no, no, no, not committee.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
No, no, they will.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
They when it's a committee and we wanted to move,
they absolutely will, because especially if you're a member of
a group and you're representing a hoa or you're representing
a well.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
And maybe that would be the case in other states
where they have different laws for different counties, different cities
in that but because the state's completely.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Because committee, oh my gosh, I'd look to see who
can vote for me. So what will come up immediately
is you know the person's address. I'll see whether you're
in their well.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And people don't have to give their address when they
because you're just emailing. And the other thing is is
that now with the social media and that kind of stuff,
if a senator does you wrong or a House member
does you wrong, it's everywhere and without respect to where
you live. So contact the members the senators on the
the Senate Government Operations Committee. There's only really there's seven,
(25:53):
but there's only five that you've really got a contact
My senator, my state Senator Ron Winterton uh is chair
of that committee. So yes, I'll be talking to them
this next week. And what we want is this message.
HB one thirty three is perfect as it is. Pass
it out of that committee onto the Senate floor without
(26:15):
any unfriendly amendments, without unfriendly amendments. If there's an appropriate amendment,
then fine. So that's Senators Winterton, mckel, Sandal, Thatcher, Vickers,
I can guarantee you well, tell you what. I'll go
out on a limb that Senator Blowin is not going
(26:36):
to like the bill, Senator Plumb is not going to
like the Those those are the two Democrats on there.
But hey, you know what, maybe you can convince them.
But I wouldn't use a lot of energy on that.
But contact Winterton, mckel, Sandal, Thatcher, and Vickers, tell them
pass out h be respectful, because hey, maybe they're all
for it anyway, but pass out one thirty three to
(26:58):
the full Senate without any unf friendly amendments.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
And as soon as we see a date a committee
hearing date on that bill, yeah, that will go out
as an alert for the Utah Shooting Sports Council members.
So if you're not getting the alerts, go to Utah
Shooting Sportscouncil dot organ at the very top, click on alerts,
put in your email address so you can be aware
of this as well.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Also, thank you very much. That's important information.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I mean, and and yeah, there's I mean, we've got
people from all over the place, the University, d n R,
you of you, the wildlife Management areas, all sorts of
things that are trying to add things that are essentially
carve outs. We want an exception in this bill. We
want this, we want that now. This bill is perfect
the way it is. It has been worked on. We
(27:47):
Utah Shooting Sports Council has given lots of input over
the last year, worked with LEDGED research, the representatives and
all interested we have worked. We've worked with DNR on
this one too, and they're still trying to do a
carve out. So no carve outs? All right, what do
we got? Very quickly? HB four twenty five. HB four
twenty five is on the third reading calendar. That means
(28:09):
it's up for the anytime you see it's on third reading,
that means it is coming to the full the full house,
in this case the full House. It's number twenty three.
Likely to be heard, could be Monday, probably Tuesday or Wednesday.
Contact your representatives, all of your represent well your one representative,
(28:31):
and tell them, no, this is a bad bill. HB
four to twenty five. Bad bill. This increases concealed carry
permit fees. But it's only for out of staters. Why
not screw the out of staters bill?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, I mean, don't.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
We do that for hunting licenses exactly? So it's a
horrible excuse to use. But then when they realize their
funding's not going to come, they're going to do it
for instators. Plus, well, I really do not like about
this bill as they want to create a two million
dollars slash fund from overcharging on these permits, so's they're
(29:08):
going to raise the revenue that they think they're going
to do. No, I mean, I mean this is a
permit that only renews every five years. No, but no.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
But the point is is that there are lots of
other states that are going to be much more attractive
now for people to go and get their multi state permits.
You have you know, so Utah, not only do you
have to have the Utah permit, but you have to
have it from your home state that's there too. And
on average you're talking about another sixty one dollars, So
you're talking about something that's near one hundred and fifty dollars.
(29:37):
Now for somebody to have it. Somebody can get a
permit from Arizona. The total cost is sixty dollars there,
and they have more states. You have Oklahoma. The total
costs there is one hundred dollars. But you have as
many states as Utah, Idaho, other states, and so you
know it's what your people are I'm going to switch
(30:00):
to other states to go and do it, and you're
not going to get the revenue increase that they think
they're going to get.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Well, we come back.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I'm going to play a clip when we come back,
because we're over time on this one. But when we
come back, I'm want to play a very insightful clip
from the Senate Judiciary Committee when we come back on
Gun Radio Utah. Stay tuned, all right, So I got
it real quickly. So brew of criminal identification fee amendments there,
So tell you tell your representative either vote no or
(30:26):
strike lines thirty thirty seven, fifty one and fifty two
out of the bill. There's still some sex registration fee
increases or something. I don't care about that, right, but
but take out just to if you don't have to
remember those line numbers, but take out the fee increase
amendments to that bill, HB four twenty five. Tell your
House members that right now. I'm going to play this
(30:47):
a clip. There's a clip from the Senate Judiciary Committee
on the eighteenth last week where I think it's very
telling because BCI gets its money it's budget from the
permit fees and it said dedicated money. It goes into
their own dedicated as bill called it now a slush fund.
And there was a different bill had nothing to do
(31:08):
with this one. And Senator Brady Brammer new senator, but
he was a former representative and he's talking about legislative audits.
So let me let me play this clip for.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
You, Judiciary, Law Enforcement, Colonel Justice, Standing Committity.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Anyway, I'm gonna have to find that because it didn't
start where I wanted to start. But essentially he said this,
and he's sitting right next to the state auditor, and
he said, we have a problem with these state agencies
that get their money not through appropriations because there's that
automatic oversight. They got to fight for every dime, and
he says, in agencies that get it through fees like
(31:52):
this seemingly think that they're immune to oversight.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
And you see, I does that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
So I hit the play button and it didn't start
where I wanted it to start. So we're just going
to we have to punt at that point, all right,
And Bill, you know, there was an indication that says,
why don't we charge more, Why shouldn't we charge more
for out of state permit fees for the concealed carry permit? Uh,
(32:18):
since we do that for hunting. Well, I think that's
a one. I think that's a very terrible optic to
be comparing hunting with concealed carry, because I think that's
exactly what the left thinks we have, is a concealed
hunting license anyway.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
But also well, in the words came from one of
our Republican representatives, and I.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Will go there, but you did, you did, But I mean,
it's out there.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I mean, but my point.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Is that hunting, they the deer and the and the
deer and the antelope play they are not They are
state resources. They're owned by the state. There's only so
many of them per year. They're a finite resource, and
the taxpayers of UTIH, you know, help to do that.
They pay for the DWR officers, they pay for everything
(33:04):
associated when someone hunts, whether insate or out of state,
and the out of stators aren't paying state stacks. So yeah,
charge you more. Concealed kerry permit fees are infinite. There
is no top number that you can have, so it's
not like a resource that is expended.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
And it doesn't cost that much more to do an
in state than it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Doesn't cost anymore.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Let me tell you right now, it does not cost
I dare bci to tell me why. The only thing
that is different is if you're out of state, they
just have to verify, and we're going to change this.
They just have to verify that you have a permit.
If if your state recognizes Utah's permit, then you have
to have your home state permit and they just have
(33:45):
to verify that that you send it in. That's the
only difference. It's sure as heck, isn't fifty dollars more?
All right, So we've got that burglary amendments is moving.
It's in House Law Enforcement Committee HB two two one.
It's a good bill. Support that one we'll see wildlife amendments.
HB three oh nine. We talked about that representative case
of Snider. Now he amended, he amended out the offending
(34:08):
parts and just like he said, he did, and we're
very happy to report that. So HB three oh nine
is now as far as I'm concerned, meth it doesn't
really involve two A type stuff. And HB one eighty
three Representative Trevor Lee non citizen restricted person amendments. If
you come into this country seeking asylum, you're not technically
(34:33):
legal versus illegal, but you shouldn't be allowed to maybe
have a gun apparently, and that's why because there's really
hard to do the background checks or whatever. But that
would change that so that asylum seekers, no, until you've
got until you've entered legally and appropriately, then you don't
have to be a citizen. But asylum seekers, no, you can't.
(34:55):
And what do we got Imitation fire amendments. That one
has been changed radically and we're kind of going neutral
on that one. And what do we got, oh, fire
and retention amendments. It is in the Senate.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
It is. I think it's going. Let's see.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I'm just trying to find it's going to a committee
in the Senate, and that basically says, if you get
a plea in abeyance for a crime that wouldn't have
restricted your firearm rights, then they cannot the prosecutors, the
judge cannot write into that plea in abeyance agreement that
you can't have guns. Now, if it's obviously a plan
in advance for a crime that you would have restricted you,
(35:35):
then yeah, so we do that burglary amendments.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think we talked about that.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
That is in Law Enforcement Committee HB two two one,
So that firearm retention amendments. That's a good bill, HB
one ninety five. And John, thank you so much for
being for being here. Thanks for all the help.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
And it's a whole fifteen minute drive to get here.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, yeah, out, Yeah, it's kind of short.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And and we and we look forward to your insight
on that fee agreements because I know you've been doing
a lot of research on that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And we've got about what about twenty seconds left.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah, so we got how many weeks left on the
hill March seventh, March, but we just got a couple
of weeks left, and so yeah, I can't encourage you
go out of Utah Shooting Sports Council dot org. Get
signed up on the alerts. This is the time. If
we see things getting dragged, we're gonna let our members.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Prime research dot org.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Go to Prime research dot org, hit subscribe, hit donate
Prime research dot org. Very easy. The donate button is
right there. It's glue. I saw it.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, thank you, doctor a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I have a greade. Good weekend everyone, see you next week.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Nine
We are live in studio today and we're generally speaking,
we're always live, but we may not be in the
in the actual studio, but we are. You can find
us on gun Radio Utah Live Facebook.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Video streaming. Yeah, if you want to see gun Radio
Utah kind of.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
What we do in the background in between breaks.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, our snacks, our choice of snacks.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Bill Patterson sitting across me, Director Utah Shooting Sports Council,
and our very special guest. If you joined in on
the gun Radio Utah Facebook page, we'll all wave. And
so that's me waving, Bill waving, and that is doctor
John Lott, head of the Crime Prevention Research Center. And
(00:43):
go to crimeresearch dot org and you find all the
articles you can search for stuff fantastic. And we're going
to have doctor Lott talking about Well, John, you said
we could talk about anything, but and you always say that,
and so but I wanted to find something the most interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We can talk about the weather. You want to talk
about the.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We want to talk about the weather as it relates
to guns. It's it's not too cold outside to go
shooting outside. So I want to talk about data distortions,
and so we're going to bring in second segment on that,
but anything in first, third, or fourth segments you can
jump in and we can get your insight. So we are,
in fact, we're going to be talking about HB four
(01:28):
twenty five, which is the which is the fee increase
for concealed carry. So we're going to pay the man.
So we're gonna be we're gonna be talking about that.
We're gonna be talking about we're going to have a
rundown of I don't know, ten or eleven or fifteen
or so bills, just very quickly on most, but we're
going to do a deeper dive into HB one thirty three,
(01:53):
great bill, HB four twenty five really bad.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Bill, so that balances it out.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
No, it's it's well, I mean good and bad.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I mean we've got one.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Bad and the doodle.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, and so yeah, I'm not a fan of for
twenty five. Nor should our listeners be. Whether you're in
Utah or maybe streaming this over iHeartMedia and you're out
of state with Utah and silkery permit, this does horrible
things to our out of state folks, which ultimately I
see will happen next year.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh you think so?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh? Absolutely absolutely, Well, we've got some we've got some
interesting insight.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And what we're going to do is we're going to
tell you the bill numbers. We're going to tell you
where they are in the system, and tell you who
to contact, how to contact them, and what to say
essentially to uh to either move the bill along or
to get it killed. And you know, talking about getting
(02:53):
it killed. So I got I got bill, I got
yelled at, you know, I got yelled at up at
the on the hill. Which time, Uh, pretty much, it's
a it's a it's multi times during the day each day. Well, so, yes,
I work with people on their bills. And some of
these are bad bills. Some of these are pills that
we don't like. And our motto is, we work with
(03:17):
that bill. We try to get say a bad bill,
We try to get that bill as good as we
possibly can before we kill it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And that's our mottol.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Kind of reminds me of a killer. Well, playing with
a seal. Oh really, yeah, you tenderize it just as
much to you either.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Really, bill.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
See now all those seal loving UH folks are just well.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
It's pretty much I mean, but it's it's pretty much
the same thing. Like you said, we're gonna we'll work
with them, and you know, i'd love to see some
of these representatives come out with a good bill. I mean,
I would love to, but they never come to us
initially when they when well many of.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Many of them do. But yeah, speaking of killing baby seals,
what have you got.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Well, we're just in the waiting period right now for
the bare draw results. But also just mark this on
your calendar for you big game hunters. March twentieth, applications
will be open or the portal will be open so
you can put in for your big game tags. Hopefully
you can draw something out like me, I probably will
(04:26):
never draw anything else again.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So is there their small game and then there's big game?
Is there super big game? Like extra large game?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah? Now you're looking at me. You know, people cannot
see you roll your eyes on.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
They can on the camera if they're watching.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, if they're watching, Go to gun ready to Facebook page.
You can get that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
All right, I'm going to jump into it because we've
still got we've got some time. If you want to
follow along on the legislative website, go to l e
as in legislature l et Utah dot gov and set
up an account, set up an account under your email
or whatever, and you can follow these bills. One of
(05:10):
the first we've got I don't know how many thirty
something thirty five bills that we're watching, but here's the
ones that are in play right now.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
HB one oh four.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
If you see a zero four after it or a
zero something, it means it's a substitute. It's been changed
significantly enough firearm safety and school's amendments.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It is.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It is past the House Committee, it passed the House floor.
It made some changes, but not significant enough to really
worry about. It is now in the Senate Standing Committee
in Government Ops. Kind of a weird committee, but we're
gonna be We're gonna be going back to Government Ops
for one thirty three HB one thirty three. But anyway,
(05:51):
it's it's an interesting I just thought it's a weird
place to have.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
That bill.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So but anyways, we've got my senator and you went
to county round Winterton, Senator Winterton, and I've got Senator
Mike mcchel, Senator Scott Sandel, Senator Daniel Thatcher, and Senator
Evan Vickers in that committee. Those are the ours, those
are the ones that we need to influence. And I'll
(06:19):
tell you right now. So you can go to it's
HB one oh four, it's in and so you go
on to email. So you're going to go to committees,
go to standing committees, or just find when you go
to committees, that'll have the whole list you want, Senate
Government Operations Committee and you can click there, follow the
links and you can click on those individuals, find their
email and send them an email right there from the site. Okay,
(06:43):
and tell them you like one oh four to send
it through without any unfriendly amendments. Now, bill, when I
say unfriendly amendments, do I have to explain that?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
What do you think? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I think so there there can be amendments that can
be editor recommended to these bills. What we mean by
unfriendly amendments. Amendments would be what the original sponsor would say, Yeah,
I can live with that, or deal with that, or
it's an.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Appropriate it's a fix that something. But let's say, uh,
typically it's one of the d's, but it's not always.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It could be one of the urs Democrats versus Republicans.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And that that that promotes an amendment or a change
or a substitute that takes away from the intent of
the bill. Something they want to add that's terrible, and
that would be And typically you look to the sponsor,
whether it be on the House or the floor of
the House or the Senate or in committee, and they'll say, well,
(07:46):
I think that's a friendly amendment, or they'll say, you
know what, I'm going to take that as an unfriendly amendment.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I would I would urge you to vote against that amendment.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So that's why I say, let's urge one O four
in Government Senate Government Options Committee to pass without any
unfriendly amendments.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And always we want it to pass without unfriendly amendments.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I would think, Okay, well, except for for twenty five,
we're gonna we're gonna encourage unfriendly amendments. And now, all right,
what do we got. We've got ve got a little
teeny bit of time. All right, the next one I'll
go to, Well, it's not the next one firearm safety incentives. Oh, Bill,
I wanted to say one Happy birthday to Hannah, your daughter,
(08:27):
and two.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yes, happy twenty four for you, Hannah.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And two as appropriate, two twenty two. This is happy
second amendment day two to two to two and welcome. Yeah,
anyways two two two two five.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Speaking of which, HB one forty three, good bill Firearm
Safety Incentives by Representative Matt McPherson. This will make a
tax holiday on every two twenty two February twenty second
for buying gun safes and firearm stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So anyway, that is, that is on the third reading calendar,
so that is in the House. It's number twenty one.
So it's probably going to be heard Monday, Tuesday or
at the latest Wednesday, because they do that. We have
until March seventh to get all these bills passed by
the way Friday March seventh at midnight.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And good bill.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Again, encourage your representatives to vote for this bill, HB
one three Firearm Safety Incentives and pass it without any
unfriendly amendments. And what do we got? So yeah, so
that and then it'll go on to the Senate. All right,
when we come back, we're gonna we're just going to
(09:42):
go straight to doctor John Lott. We're going to talk
about data distortions. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Hey, welcome back. To gun Radio UTAB Bill Peterson, director
of Utah Shooing Sports Council, and across from me Clark
the a Potion, the chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council,
and hey, just real quick, definitely go run out and
if you're in need of ammunition, if you need some
brass Easter eggs or Valentines, they're on sale.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Valentine, well it's.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Passed, yeah, it's so, they're on sale. Okay, all right,
go with this flash. My brass has brass Easter eggs
and Valentines on sale, leftovers from the holidays.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Okay, we haven't quite gotten the Easter yet, but we
wait past Valentine.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We didn't need getting my bad Okay, you can go
check them out at four thirty eight West one hundred
and twenty third South and Draper or down in Orum
eighteen o two sand Hill Road. Obviously, go in and
check out see what they got. They got really good
deals on their nine mil forty five you can get
(10:53):
it in can packages and all that. I noticed they
had some six y five creed more that was going
at a really good rice. Give him a shout and
make sure you get on their text notification lists. So
when they add these sales, you're the first to know
and you can run in there and grab your.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Does anybody even shoot six or five Creed?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I mean really yes, I thought PRC just like took
that over. Anyway, it did for me.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
But I still shoot Creed. I've Creed. I love it anyway, Creed, Creed, Creed, Creed. Okay, Hey,
we got a great guest here and doctor John Lott
Crime Research Labs.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Lab, Crime Prevention Research.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Center Center, and we are so glad to have you
with us today. And now you had some big news
that you kind of announced it not too long ago.
You are now here to straighten out Utah, I moved
to move to Salt Lake in any case, Yes, that's awesome.
And uh you've been here for what just a little
(11:56):
over a month now. I got here near the beginning
of the game January. Well it wasn't exactly voluntary to
begin with. But uh oh, I don't even want to
go down that path. But but we're glad to have
you here. Glad to be here. Yeah, beautiful state. Well,
you couldn't be in a better state for gun rights,
(12:18):
I believe in my take, what do you actually from Montana.
Montana was pretty good. Okay.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
There are a couple of things that you utaus better on, okay,
and where can we improve?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But I mean Montana is such a small I mean,
what do you got like one hundred people there?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You know total?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
I think a little bit more than that. Oh not
much though, Congressman, but about one point one million one.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Point okay, so we're like three and a half times that.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, so and we're at any state, John, I want
you to discuss so when people if people go to
crime research dot org, they can get all these articles.
One of the articles that really really stood out is
there's all this talk about Trump's new administration and he's
he's given marching orders to DJ to the and to
(13:05):
the new to PAMBONDBI, given the marching orders to to
find all these things and do this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
But you brought up something that I.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Don't know, maybe is even more important talking about crime data.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well, I think they're all important.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
The executive order goes through lots of rules and laws
and international agreements that past administrations have made that there's
have thirty days to identify them all and do it.
But look, there's been a lot of talk about the
politicization of the Department of Justice and the FBI, and
(13:43):
you know, they're talking about things like going after Catholics
or school board people that go to school boards, or
you know, the weaponization, you know, spying on a presidential campaign.
All those things are important, But one thing that I
wanted to just put on people's radar is that there's
a lot of politicization of the data, distortion of the
(14:05):
data that the FBI and other agencies put out. And
you know, if you let people distort the data, they
can distort the debate. I mean, we're not going to
be able to go and properly figure out what to
do to defend people and make them safer reduce crime
if we can't rely on the data that the government
(14:27):
puts out on that. So I mainly focused on the
FBI when I was working in the Department of Justice
during the first Trump term. I had some interactions with
the FBI that were disturbing, and so I wrote about
some of that and some of the other things. You know,
just this last year, I think the FBI was influencing
(14:53):
the presidential election. You know, they you know, for a
year we were having news story after news headline coming
out saying crime has fallen, but people mistakenly think that
it's increasing, and they were relying on data from twenty
twenty two. The data comes out about a year after
the year that the crime data is for. So in
(15:17):
October twenty twenty three, they came out with data for
twenty twenty two saying that violent crime during twenty twenty
two had fallen by two point one percent. And so
he had all these headlines when David Muir was fact
checking the president during the presidential debate that he had
with Kamala Harris. That's the data that was the finalized data.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
That he was referring to.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
The problem is is that in September of this last year,
the FBI came out with its data for twenty twenty three,
but it secretly updated the data for twenty twenty two,
where it went from a two point one percent drop
to a four point five percent increase, and no mention
of that in their press release and the report itself.
(16:03):
There was one footnote that just vaguely said we've updated
the data for twenty twenty two, no mention about why
they increased it, no mention about the change that had occurred.
And then even when the media started reaching out to
the FBI about this, saying it looks like you've changed
(16:24):
it from a drop to an increase, the FBI was
extremely vague. They wouldn't come out and just say yes,
we did that. All they would do is make statements
saying we stand by our data that's there.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And well, I found, if I may, John, I found
that they changed their tone and they updated their figures
after you called them on it.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
No, I mean, I discovered it, but it's more just
because I'm a nerd and just you know, on a
Saturday night, we'll go and look at old crime file
datas from the FBI.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Who doesn't do that?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And I noticed that they did. I didn't even see
that footnote to begin with in their original report. But
the stuff that I had went viral. Joe Rogan spent
like three and a half minutes or so talking to
Trump about the changes. Elon Musk retweeted a couple times.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
You had.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Fox must have had like about six different news segments
on it. But outside of kind of the conservative bubble
that was there, the mainstream media, the New York Times,
Washing Post and what have you completely ignored it. And
I think part of that they were able to ignore
it because the FBI just wouldn't explicitly come out and
(17:43):
say that they had changed it if they came out
and explicitly put that in a press release. I mean,
my own guess is that ninety five or more percent
of reporters don't do anything more than read the press
release that's there. But even the few that may have
looked at the actual report itself, you know, they wouldn't
(18:03):
understand the importance that was there. So that's just one example. Unfortunately,
there are other examples that are there. When I was
at the Department of Justice, I was supposed to look
at their active shooting reports and it just to commence,
and you know, and it's just not the media, but
the courts rely on this stuff. So the FBI claims
(18:25):
it over the last ten years, only four percent of
the active shooting attacks were stopped by civilians with concealed
carry permits. So it's like they claimed they're like fourteen cases.
I nobody needs to take my word for it. My
center finds one hundred and eighty. Part of them, they
most of them, they missed, some of them, they misinterpreted
(18:47):
that were there, or misidentified and so rather than four percent,
I think it's about thirty six percent.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But then even more important is.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I've argued with the FBI you should only look at
cases where people are allowed to carry. You have to
cut out the gun free zones, and then it's over
fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
We're stopped.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Okay, when we come back, Actually, before we go, John,
you do fantastic research at Crime Prevention Research Center.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
How do people donate? How to people? You have a Well,
I'll just tell you.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
I hope people can sign up for emails. But you
can go to crimeresearch dot org. Crimeresearch dot org and
there's a subscribe and donate buttons at the top of
the page.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Hit that subscribe, hit that donate button. When we come
back on Gun Radio Utah, John's gonna stay here because
we haven't given him the code get out, and we
have lots more to go.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So stay tuned. Welcome back to gun Radio Utah. O.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
There.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I know, apologies and Bill, you were just talking about guns.
I'll talk about guns. Did you do you have anybody
that's messed with your guns? Broken them, messed them up? Dingdom,
get it over to the gunsmith. You knew where I
was going to get them over to the gunsmith at
Sportsman's Warehouse. They're everywhere. Well, the gunsmith location is actually
(20:04):
just one place. It's sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West
in Salt Lake City. Their phone number, by the way,
eight oh one three zero four eighty seventy. That's eight
zero seven zero now. Or but when I say everywhere,
you can take them into any of the over one
hundred and forty six Sportsmen's Warehouse locations because they own
the gunsmith, and you can tell them to get your
(20:26):
gun the way you want it. And I mean anything
stock work, metal work, bolt work, fixing work, drilling, sanding,
whatever needs to be done to fix your gun the
way you want it. The gunsmith at Sportsmen's Warehouse. All right,
So I'm going to get into these bills here now
one thirty three. This is my rant time bill, and I.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Want I want you to we want rant. In fact,
I'm going to invite John to rant as well as
we talk about these hes just came from Montana.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
He doesn't rant. John doesn't rant.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
These are some pretty crazy things.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I mean, if John, if you feel like granting, you
may go right ahead. But right now it's Clark's rant,
all right, one thirty three HB. One thirty three, Write
that down and support that good bill right now. It
is a great bill. Right now, it is a great bill. Yes,
it's nine thousand lines, two hundred and sixty three pages.
(21:21):
But the House Majority whip leadership in the House is
promoting this. This is a representative Kerry and Lizzenby. And
essentially what it does bill, you know, we have state
preemption that means I can go from Logan all the
way down to Saint George, Tuilla to Vernal, if you will,
and have the exact same gun laws in every single city, county, municipality,
(21:47):
school district, you name it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
They're all the saying that's preemption.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And essentially what we're trying to do with it, it's
along those lines, is get rid of these carve outs.
It's like when people say, yeah, it's like, I believe
in the Second Amendment. But there's any time you hear
somebody say I believe in the Second Amendment and they
(22:13):
don't do a full stop, hard period right there and
they insert a butt it always stinks, Oh, absolutely, because
what they're essentially doing in many times is saying, but
Let's do a carve out for eighteen year olds. Let's
do a carve out for rifles that we don't like
(22:36):
the look of. Let's do a carve out for this location,
say at this at this university or something. Let's do
a carve out for it has to be unloaded, and
then we're okay with it.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
What represented Listenbee's bill does is treat all firearms the same.
It treats essentially anybody eighteen and over the same. It
treats your car the same as out side your car
the same. It treats all public areas the same. Uh,
except for, of course, the federal restrictions. You know, post
(23:10):
offices K through twelve schools, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Uh, office restriction may not be around much longer?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Is that right? Tell me more?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Uh? Well, there was a judge's decision recently that said that, uh, uh,
you know, if you look at the historical standard and
if you look at kind of the logic for it,
there's no reason to go in and lump in uh
post offices with you know, uh, courthouses or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Good. I agree, I agree watching.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Judge right now. But wasn't it though? We'll be looking
at It wasn't the post office thing because of hostile
work environments at going postal, going postal.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And that was the postal workers though.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, and that's where the term came from.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So yeah, okay, you brought it.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I'm sure that would stop it.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
You know, if you declare it a gun free zone,
I'm sure nobody would take in their weapon.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
There, No, no, no, no no, they would not, certainly
not those that were seeming to do that. All right,
HB one thirty three. Let me tell you where one
thirty three is right now. It passed the House committee,
it passed the House floor. It we had a little
we had to give it a little nudge, and when
I say little, I mean a big nudge to get
it out of Senate Rules Committee where it was sitting
(24:22):
and it was stewing and it wasn't moving and there
was no reason for it. We gave it a nudge,
and low and behold, it got moved to Senate Government
Operations Committee, remember the one I told you about. All right,
you need to now contact your state senators and I'll
tell you, well, actually I don't care if your state
senator is on that committee or not. You need to
(24:42):
contact everybody. Well, I'm going to give you five people
a contact.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Don't they normally ignore people people from outside their district?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
No, no, no, no, no, not committee.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
No, no, they will.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
They when it's a committee and we wanted to move,
they absolutely will, because especially if you're a member of
a group and you're representing a hoa or you're representing
a well.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
And maybe that would be the case in other states
where they have different laws for different counties, different cities
in that but because the state's completely.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Because committee, oh my gosh, I'd look to see who
can vote for me. So what will come up immediately
is you know the person's address. I'll see whether you're
in their well.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And people don't have to give their address when they
because you're just emailing. And the other thing is is
that now with the social media and that kind of stuff,
if a senator does you wrong or a House member
does you wrong, it's everywhere and without respect to where
you live. So contact the members the senators on the
the Senate Government Operations Committee. There's only really there's seven,
(25:53):
but there's only five that you've really got a contact
My senator, my state Senator Ron Winterton uh is chair
of that committee. So yes, I'll be talking to them
this next week. And what we want is this message.
HB one thirty three is perfect as it is. Pass
it out of that committee onto the Senate floor without
(26:15):
any unfriendly amendments, without unfriendly amendments. If there's an appropriate amendment,
then fine. So that's Senators Winterton, mckel, Sandal, Thatcher, Vickers,
I can guarantee you well, tell you what. I'll go
out on a limb that Senator Blowin is not going
(26:36):
to like the bill, Senator Plumb is not going to
like the Those those are the two Democrats on there.
But hey, you know what, maybe you can convince them.
But I wouldn't use a lot of energy on that.
But contact Winterton, mckel, Sandal, Thatcher, and Vickers, tell them
pass out h be respectful, because hey, maybe they're all
for it anyway, but pass out one thirty three to
(26:58):
the full Senate without any unf friendly amendments.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
And as soon as we see a date a committee
hearing date on that bill, yeah, that will go out
as an alert for the Utah Shooting Sports Council members.
So if you're not getting the alerts, go to Utah
Shooting Sportscouncil dot organ at the very top, click on alerts,
put in your email address so you can be aware
of this as well.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Also, thank you very much. That's important information.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I mean, and and yeah, there's I mean, we've got
people from all over the place, the University, d n R,
you of you, the wildlife Management areas, all sorts of
things that are trying to add things that are essentially
carve outs. We want an exception in this bill. We
want this, we want that now. This bill is perfect
the way it is. It has been worked on. We
(27:47):
Utah Shooting Sports Council has given lots of input over
the last year, worked with LEDGED research, the representatives and
all interested we have worked. We've worked with DNR on
this one too, and they're still trying to do a
carve out. So no carve outs? All right, what do
we got? Very quickly? HB four twenty five. HB four
twenty five is on the third reading calendar. That means
(28:09):
it's up for the anytime you see it's on third reading,
that means it is coming to the full the full house,
in this case the full House. It's number twenty three.
Likely to be heard, could be Monday, probably Tuesday or Wednesday.
Contact your representatives, all of your represent well your one representative,
(28:31):
and tell them, no, this is a bad bill. HB
four to twenty five. Bad bill. This increases concealed carry
permit fees. But it's only for out of staters. Why
not screw the out of staters bill?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, I mean, don't.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
We do that for hunting licenses exactly? So it's a
horrible excuse to use. But then when they realize their
funding's not going to come, they're going to do it
for instators. Plus, well, I really do not like about
this bill as they want to create a two million
dollars slash fund from overcharging on these permits, so's they're
(29:08):
going to raise the revenue that they think they're going
to do. No, I mean, I mean this is a
permit that only renews every five years. No, but no.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
But the point is is that there are lots of
other states that are going to be much more attractive
now for people to go and get their multi state permits.
You have you know, so Utah, not only do you
have to have the Utah permit, but you have to
have it from your home state that's there too. And
on average you're talking about another sixty one dollars, So
you're talking about something that's near one hundred and fifty dollars.
(29:37):
Now for somebody to have it. Somebody can get a
permit from Arizona. The total cost is sixty dollars there,
and they have more states. You have Oklahoma. The total
costs there is one hundred dollars. But you have as
many states as Utah, Idaho, other states, and so you
know it's what your people are I'm going to switch
(30:00):
to other states to go and do it, and you're
not going to get the revenue increase that they think
they're going to get.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Well, we come back.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I'm going to play a clip when we come back,
because we're over time on this one. But when we
come back, I'm want to play a very insightful clip
from the Senate Judiciary Committee when we come back on
Gun Radio Utah. Stay tuned, all right, So I got
it real quickly. So brew of criminal identification fee amendments there,
So tell you tell your representative either vote no or
(30:26):
strike lines thirty thirty seven, fifty one and fifty two
out of the bill. There's still some sex registration fee
increases or something. I don't care about that, right, but
but take out just to if you don't have to
remember those line numbers, but take out the fee increase
amendments to that bill, HB four twenty five. Tell your
House members that right now. I'm going to play this
(30:47):
a clip. There's a clip from the Senate Judiciary Committee
on the eighteenth last week where I think it's very
telling because BCI gets its money it's budget from the
permit fees and it said dedicated money. It goes into
their own dedicated as bill called it now a slush fund.
And there was a different bill had nothing to do
(31:08):
with this one. And Senator Brady Brammer new senator, but
he was a former representative and he's talking about legislative audits.
So let me let me play this clip for.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
You, Judiciary, Law Enforcement, Colonel Justice, Standing Committity.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Anyway, I'm gonna have to find that because it didn't
start where I wanted to start. But essentially he said this,
and he's sitting right next to the state auditor, and
he said, we have a problem with these state agencies
that get their money not through appropriations because there's that
automatic oversight. They got to fight for every dime, and
he says, in agencies that get it through fees like
(31:52):
this seemingly think that they're immune to oversight.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
And you see, I does that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
So I hit the play button and it didn't start
where I wanted it to start. So we're just going
to we have to punt at that point, all right,
And Bill, you know, there was an indication that says,
why don't we charge more, Why shouldn't we charge more
for out of state permit fees for the concealed carry permit? Uh,
(32:18):
since we do that for hunting. Well, I think that's
a one. I think that's a very terrible optic to
be comparing hunting with concealed carry, because I think that's
exactly what the left thinks we have, is a concealed
hunting license anyway.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
But also well, in the words came from one of
our Republican representatives, and I.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Will go there, but you did, you did, But I mean,
it's out there.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I mean, but my point.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Is that hunting, they the deer and the and the
deer and the antelope play they are not They are
state resources. They're owned by the state. There's only so
many of them per year. They're a finite resource, and
the taxpayers of UTIH, you know, help to do that.
They pay for the DWR officers, they pay for everything
(33:04):
associated when someone hunts, whether insate or out of state,
and the out of stators aren't paying state stacks. So yeah,
charge you more. Concealed kerry permit fees are infinite. There
is no top number that you can have, so it's
not like a resource that is expended.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
And it doesn't cost that much more to do an
in state than it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Doesn't cost anymore.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Let me tell you right now, it does not cost
I dare bci to tell me why. The only thing
that is different is if you're out of state, they
just have to verify, and we're going to change this.
They just have to verify that you have a permit.
If if your state recognizes Utah's permit, then you have
to have your home state permit and they just have
(33:45):
to verify that that you send it in. That's the
only difference. It's sure as heck, isn't fifty dollars more?
All right, So we've got that burglary amendments is moving.
It's in House Law Enforcement Committee HB two two one.
It's a good bill. Support that one we'll see wildlife amendments.
HB three oh nine. We talked about that representative case
of Snider. Now he amended, he amended out the offending
(34:08):
parts and just like he said, he did, and we're
very happy to report that. So HB three oh nine
is now as far as I'm concerned, meth it doesn't
really involve two A type stuff. And HB one eighty
three Representative Trevor Lee non citizen restricted person amendments. If
you come into this country seeking asylum, you're not technically
(34:33):
legal versus illegal, but you shouldn't be allowed to maybe
have a gun apparently, and that's why because there's really
hard to do the background checks or whatever. But that
would change that so that asylum seekers, no, until you've
got until you've entered legally and appropriately, then you don't
have to be a citizen. But asylum seekers, no, you can't.
(34:55):
And what do we got Imitation fire amendments. That one
has been changed radically and we're kind of going neutral
on that one. And what do we got, oh, fire
and retention amendments. It is in the Senate.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
It is. I think it's going. Let's see.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I'm just trying to find it's going to a committee
in the Senate, and that basically says, if you get
a plea in abeyance for a crime that wouldn't have
restricted your firearm rights, then they cannot the prosecutors, the
judge cannot write into that plea in abeyance agreement that
you can't have guns. Now, if it's obviously a plan
in advance for a crime that you would have restricted you,
(35:35):
then yeah, so we do that burglary amendments.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think we talked about that.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
That is in Law Enforcement Committee HB two two one,
So that firearm retention amendments. That's a good bill, HB
one ninety five. And John, thank you so much for
being for being here. Thanks for all the help.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
And it's a whole fifteen minute drive to get here.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, yeah, out, Yeah, it's kind of short.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And and we and we look forward to your insight
on that fee agreements because I know you've been doing
a lot of research on that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And we've got about what about twenty seconds left.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah, so we got how many weeks left on the
hill March seventh, March, but we just got a couple
of weeks left, and so yeah, I can't encourage you
go out of Utah Shooting Sports Council dot org. Get
signed up on the alerts. This is the time. If
we see things getting dragged, we're gonna let our members.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Prime research dot org.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Go to Prime research dot org, hit subscribe, hit donate
Prime research dot org. Very easy. The donate button is
right there. It's glue. I saw it.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, thank you, doctor a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I have a greade. Good weekend everyone, see you next week.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Nine
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