Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You Ti, I'm your host, Clark Oropotion. Bill Betterson my
co host, and he's a director of the Utah Sitting
Sports Council. Is out on an excused absence. Well he's out.
He didn't necessarily ask if he could be excused. I
do believe that it that his daughter Becky is getting married.
So congratulations, no best wishes. You're supposed to say best
(00:20):
wishes to the woman and congratulations to the man. That's
what I've heard on wedding things. So anyway, so good
for them. And I have told him that, you know,
regardless of the thing, he could still call in remotely.
But we'll see how that goes. We'll shout out to uh.
So I'm I'm here in the studio. Normally i'd be,
(00:40):
you know, half the time. I'm a ghost eye out
in a beautiful northern Uinta county. And Casey Jane kicked
me out of the house because for the weekend, because
she wanted her friends Noel and Katie and Heidi to
have the place to themselves. Oh not only not only
did she kick me out, she made me take the
(01:03):
dogs with me too. So I've got I've got Kanga
and fancy chancey uh with me? Not not in the
studio today though.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well maybe you and I can get dinner afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so all right so anyway, Oh,
by the way, did you know who that was? That's
doctor John Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center,
And uh, I really I needed John to come on today.
He wrote a really great op ad in the Wall
(01:36):
Street Journal. And did they edit that down?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Did they?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Did they cut it down or anything?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Cut one paragraph off?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I think it was like the third to last paragraph.
I had international comparisons on mass public shootings.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So take a look at it. It's called another mass
shooting in a gun Free Zone. Uh, it's it's a
op ed at the Wall Street Journal. So and you have.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Done our website at Crime Research dot orgon it's all there.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
They don't need the membership for the Wall Street Journal
to read it on our website.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So you and Thomas Massey did this one.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, So twenty first op ed I've written with Thomas.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So yeah, he's pretty good. You guys are buddies.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We are pretty good.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah. So we're going to be talking about this op
ad and even we're going to expand it too. Much bigger,
because I'm really excited to get some insight from you
as to what we don't know, even though you've written
about it a lot. I know, but what we don't know,
what we don't realize because I get my information from
(02:46):
the media, I really do.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Big mistake.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Huh. Well, yeah, I mean I look at it critically.
But we're gonna, I know we're going. We're going to
be playing some great clips, A couple of great clips
from our good friend O'Donnell, who I believe is a
I believe she's in Ireland now. I think I think
she left for Australia.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Came back.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Did she come back?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I think. I don't know. I know she went to
Ireland for a little while.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
But yeah, so anyway, and then the mayor of Minneapolis
gives us some interesting advice and education on firearms, especially
what he calls assault rifles. Later on in the show,
I really want to get to I've been getting a
lot of phone calls. People are planning their big trips
and I don't know. I guess the kids are back
(03:34):
in the school. They leave them in school and they
just go off on a big trip and they fly
and they want to know all these questions about should
I even travel with a firearm if I'm going on
an airplane, and is it too much of a hassle,
and so on and so forth. So I'm here to
tell you now, you know, we have what twenty nine
almost thirty, really close to thirty permitless carry states, and
(03:57):
if you have a Utah permit, the odds are that
your permit is good in the state you're going to.
And now we live in a time and an age
that even states like California have to issue whereas they
won't recognize the UTAP or meit, they don't recognize any permits,
but they have to issue you if you apply for it.
(04:17):
A concealed cary permit good in California, and it's good
throughout the count good throughout the state.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's a bit of a pain though, because you have
to be in the county that you that's going to
issue it, and there's all sorts of restrictions. It's much
more difficult still for an out of state person to
get a permit in California than it is an in state.
Now that's being challenged, but it's going to be a
little while before that works its way back through the courts.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
However, I have been in communication with some folks in
El Dorado County, California, uh huh, and that that is
actually there's a few because it's it's run by the
county sheriffs. But according to the California state law, so it.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Used to be just the sheriffs were kind of in
charge of it, and then you'd have the sheriff and
Sacramento County was giving out permits to people from around
the state that was there, and so the state stopped that.
So you can only do it for the sheriff for
the residents that you're in the county. Plus they imposed
(05:19):
a sixteen hour training requirement that's there, and there's some
other things that they've done, of course, and after Bruin,
they passed a bill that greatly were limits where you
can carry. Now you know, they had no problems with.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
All the sensitive places. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's ridiculous. However,
that is that is changing with the different courts and ultimately,
you know, the United States Supreme Court, but there's a
lot of courts that are striking down some of these
sensitive places things. And where was it that they Tennessee,
(05:54):
they had banned you know, you don't think of Tennessee
as a restrictive one, but they did. You say you
couldn't carry in a park and if you were carrying,
you could be charged with what is it armed carrying
while or walking around armed or something like that. It
literally but you had an affirmative defense to say, well,
(06:17):
I've got a permitter, I'm you know, otherwise lawful. So
they literally just got rid of that last week, I
do believe. So anyway, we're going to talk about how
to travel on an airplane with your firearm and what
the different things are, and there's so many just there's
so many misunderstandings. And my friend told me this, and
my friend said you could do this, and blah blah blah.
(06:41):
So I mean, I have a really good understanding of it.
But I also pulled up the TSA rigs and under
forty nine CFRs and all that, and so we're going
to be talking about that. But let's see what else
said we got. We got that. You know, I really
want to take some time, uh to talk about We've
(07:02):
only got a minute and a half or so left
on this one, but I want to talk when we
come back about this mass shooting in a gun free zone.
I'm going to ask the questions to you, John, why,
uh you know, define gun free zones one or two?
Why why did he choose this church? And so many
(07:28):
other things? And then I want to talk about other
mass shooters. What are the commonality what are the similarities
between this person? I don't know if it's a he
or she. I can't anyway, Yeah it's a yeah, and
and them. And then I want to talk about media
bias and and and how it's uh, how it's so
(07:49):
strong in this one. All right, when we come back
on gun Radio, Utah, stay tuned. President of the Crime
Research Prevention Center Crime Crime Okay, okay, say it John.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Well, if you say crime research prevention, it's kind of
like we're providing preventing crime research.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
We're not doing that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
No, we're not preventing crime research, Crime Prevention, Crime Prevention
Research Center.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay, you know what, Just go to crimeresearch dot org.
Just go to crimeresearch dot org and hit the donate button.
Just do just do it. Just do it. You'll feel
a lot better about yourself if you do that. And
you can pull up the articles, because we're going to
be pulling up We're going to be talking about your
op ed. We're going to go much deeper than that
in Wall Street Journal another mass shooting in a gun
(08:36):
free zone that you did with Thomas Massey. So but
you know, and I want to get into this, if
you get your information from the media, you said that
was a big mistake, John, and I agree with you,
but sometimes that's all we have. At the beginning, I
want to play from MSNBC a clip from mayor Mayor Frey,
(08:59):
who's the mayor of Minneapolis. And this is I guess
who we're supposed to be getting our firearm information from.
Let's see, do I have that ready to Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I do.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
The reality is is that we have these assault rifles
that can reel off thirty clips in conjunction with a
magazine before the person even needs to relook.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, so that just hurts my brain. Thirty clips in
conjunction with a magazine. Not I am really not sure
where to go. But he said the reality is, and
so he puts it as that's the reality. So anyway,
(09:42):
and then we have not to forget Rosie O'Donnell and
she was on what Real America's Voice or something like this,
and she was and so she's explaining, this is not
the day of the shooting. This is three days after
the shooting. Let's tell you at.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Least I'm sure she has inside information.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Then yeah, well yeah, so this is her understanding of
what happened. Oh, let me cue this one up here too.
There's that, okay, And what.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Was a white guy, republican.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Maga person? What do you know? What do we know exactly,
white guy Republican person, maga What do we know, Rosie?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We know that?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Uh you, your brain is not encumbered by facts. So anyway,
all right, John, another mass shooting in a gun free zone.
And you say that, like other killers, that he sought
this out. Explained that what do you mean he sought
out a gun free zone?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
You know, one of the biggest pet peeves I've had
with the media is that, time after time after time,
these mass murderers, in their diaries and manifestos, go into
great detail explaining why they picked the targets that they do.
And this guy is no different. And it's for the
same reasons that all these other ones are. So he
(11:16):
has multiple discussions and here about just three dy one
he said, quote. I recently heard a rumor that James Holmes,
the Aurora Theater shooter, may have chosen venues that were
quote gun free zones unquote. I would probably aim the
same way. Holmes wanted to make sure his victims would
(11:36):
be unarmed. That's why I and many others like schools
so much. At least for me, I'm focused on them.
Adam Lanza is my reason end quote.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And of course.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Lanza is the guy who did the Sandy Hook Elementary
school shooting. But you know it's the media. It's clear
they read his manifesto. They make references to parts of
it that deal with other school shooters. They make references
to him talking about, you know, other mass murderers that
(12:12):
are there. But he's making reference to them because he's
learning from them and he wants to go and do
it in a gun free zone. And you know he's
also he even talks about things like he doesn't want
to go in the early morning when parents are dropping
off their kids or later in the afternoon because a
(12:32):
parent might have a concealed handgun with them and he
wants to avoid that.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And so you're saying they may be crazy, but they're not.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That's stupid.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Look, the thing is anybody who reads any of these
diaries of manifestos, you see a consistent pattern. This guy
was suicidal. They're virtually all suicidal. But they want to
get attention. They feel unappreciated, they feel society's wronged them
in some way, and they want to get attention. And
(13:04):
they know, and they say explicitly many times, if I
can only kill more people than such and such did,
I can get even more media attention. And they know,
and they say explicitly, if they go to a place
where guns are banned, then they're going to be able
to go and kill more people and get more media attention.
(13:25):
So you know, this isn't really difficult to go and
figure out, but it's just the media refuses. You will
look in vain to find even one news story, like
within a day or so of the attack that will
go and mention that why he picked the target that
he did. Instead, they'll say, well, we think maybe it
(13:46):
has something to do with his mom having worked at
the parish there or something like that, but they don't
have any quotes for that. They just infer from other
facts that are there. But yet what he explicitly says
they ignore. My own guess is that this gun control
debate that we have these days would be very different
if the media would asks the report what's in the
(14:09):
manifestos and diaries and say, you know, we've had yet
another mass public school shooting, or another mass shooting where
the murderer explicitly picked a target where he knew his
victims weren't able to go and defend themselves.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And rather rather the media. So I'm try interpt because
I know you hate that. But what the media would
rather do is give airtime to people like Mayor Frey
or Rosie O'Donnell who's talking about universal background checks or
red flag laws or assault weapons, and completely forget the
(14:45):
idea of oh and by the way, what about Minnesota
and those laws?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Well, as both of those laws has universal background checks. Look,
you go back through the Obama administration, the Biden administration,
the number one thing that they constantly would bring up
and after a mass shooting would be we need universal
background checks. The thing is, it wouldn't have stopped this one.
(15:11):
It wouldn't have stopped one mass public shooting this century,
even if a law had been in a place nationally
and been perfectly enforced.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And I wish I.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Only know like one time, I remember a reporter asking
a politician this when they were saying, we need to
have these background checks. Just say, well, would it have
stopped this attack? Would it have stopped any mass public shooting?
You know, I want to do something, but I want
to do something that works. Okay, And the thing is
so like you could say, okay, well, these guys are
(15:41):
doing it for attention.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
They want to get media coverage.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Well, you know, one option would be to rewrite the
First Amendment. I'm not supporting that. I don't even know
how you would rewrite it in any way that would
be possible. But you can short circuit them because they
have figured out that if they go to places and
it's the reason why ninety two percent of the mass
public shootings have taken place in areas where guns are banned,
(16:06):
that if you make if you convince them that they're
not going to be able to kill that many people,
so that means they're not going to get that much
media attention, then you've taken away their goal and their
return from going and doing this type of thing. And
you'll convince some of them who would have done it
otherwise not to do it. And you know, we have
(16:31):
over ten thousand schools in the United States public schools
that have armed teachers or staff. Obviously, Utah and New
Hampshire have two of the best laws in the country
with regard to that, though Wyoming just passed something similar
to Utah. And you know, we've had schools that have
(16:52):
had it for decades. There has not been one attack
where anybody's been killed or wounded in a school where
teachers and staff can carry. All the attacks have occurred
in schools where they're not allowed to carry. And one
of the debates I've often had with conservatives is they
(17:13):
want to go and have.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Armed uniform police officer.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, why not put more armed police officers in schools?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And my response is basically, look, we have air marshals
on planes as in a comparison. Does anybody think air
marshals ought to be in uniform? I assume not, okay,
And the reason is is because if you do happen
to have a terrorist on the plane, who's he going
to take out? The one guy that he knows is
(17:42):
the air marshal because he's in uniform. And the same
principle applies when you're talking about uniformed police. People have
to appreciate what a difficult job a uniformed officer has.
So if I'm going to go shoot up a place
and I see a police officer there, I have certain
tactical options that are there. One is, if they're multiple
(18:02):
buildings at the school, I can wait for the officer
to leave and move to another building, or I can
go to another building to go an attack. Or if
I'm going to insist on attacking in that one place there,
who am I going to go and shoot first?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's going to be the police officer there. And so.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
We've just finished some research looking at all the active
shootings in the United States over the ten years from
twenty fourteen through twenty twenty three, and what we found
was that concealed carry permit holders were more likely to
stop at much higher rate than police these attacks. They'd
stopped them sooner, so there were fewer injuries or are
people killed in those attacks. And when police were involved,
(18:47):
they were seven times more likely to get killed than
civilians because they're the targets there and they're not less
likely to be there because the attackers understandably avoid attacking
places where.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
They see them.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
When we come back on gun Radio, Utah. John, I
want to continue this, but I want to get into
a little bit of mental health and I want to
know about some of the patterns that you've noticed in
these shootings regarding mental health. When we come back on
Gun Radio, Utah, stay tuned. No, we own up to it,
we just don't apologize for it. Hey, let me tell you.
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want it to be, get it over to the gunsmith,
(19:24):
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I don't. Yeah, they won't. They won't do that. But
everything else that is necessary, whether it be for your
stock to install mos you so you can put a
red dot on your pistol or something like that, engraving
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Sarah big On, Sarah Coating, all that kind of stuff,
but all the way down to rechambering your rifle for
a different cartridge. Get it over to the gunsmith a
sportsman's warehouse sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West and Salt City.
Give them a call it Ato one three zero four
eighty seventy, or you can take it into any of
the over one hundred and forty six sportsman's warehouse locations,
(20:09):
there's got to be one near you. And they are
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(21:14):
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in Bear Arms. SAF is one of those groups that
is always actively the tip of the spear when it
comes to legal challenges in the lower courts and all
the way up to and including the United States Supreme Court.
(21:35):
SAF go to SAF dot org slash gRPC for the
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(21:57):
the only time I would say register for anything with firearms.
But SAF dot org slash g RPC, and we're going
to have some folks on from SAF. I think it
might be next week. So anyways, we have been talking
with doctor John Lott about well one about your op
(22:19):
ad in the Wall Street Journal with Thomas Massey. But
I want to expand a little bit farther, John, I
want to explore mental illness. What can we do? How
well does that work? Let's talk about that with regards
to these shootings.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Look, I mean obviously the person who did this was
mentally ill, and in some sense, virtually all these individuals
are as we mentioned before, they're suicidal. Virtually all of
them are suicidal. They plan on dying. It's just some
point along the line. I mean, we've always had suicidal people,
but some point along the line, decades ago, people realize
(23:00):
that they could go and get national and international news
attention if they killed lots of other people with them
when they tried to when they were ending their own life.
And interesting thing to me on our website at crimeresearch
dot org, we've done a deep dive into these individuals
and what you find is that a little bit more
(23:22):
than half, slightly more than half, we're actually seeing mental
health care professionals relatively shortly before they engaged in their attacks.
But the amazing thing to me was that in not
one single case did any of these mental health care
professionals identify these individuals as a danger to themselves or others.
(23:43):
And when you look at it, you realize that there's
a problem with the way mental health is set up,
and that is their model in psychiatry and psychology is
people who have problems come in and they want to help.
That these medical professionals just assume that these people are
(24:04):
telling them the truth about these things. And so I'll
give you an example or two.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
There was a few years ago.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
There was the Buffalo mass murderer and the grocery store.
The year before, the guy had been in high school
and the teacher had asked him what he was going
to be doing over the summer, and he said, well,
you know, I'm going to go and find a school
that's having summer school, and I'm going to go and
try to murder lots of people there, and then I'm
(24:35):
going to go and commit suicide. So obviously the teacher
was concerned about that, and so she flagged him and
he had to go and see two mental health care experts.
But he told them, he said, look, it was a
dumb joke. I shouldn't have said it. I'm sorry he
got taken incorrectly, and you know, I was just joking.
(24:58):
And so they said, okay, he was, and they let
him go. You look at something like the Santa Barbara
mass murder, he had actually been seeing three mental health
care professionals. His parents have been concerned, and one of
the professionals that he was seeing was the head of
(25:21):
children's psychiatry at Children's Hospital in Los Angeles. This guy
was a world recognized expert on youth violence, and yet
he wasn't able to identify this individual is a danger
to himself for others. If you read the diary, that
murderer had a detailed diary, and he was going through
(25:43):
about how easy it was to go and fool these
people that unless you're a complete idiot, you're not going
to go and tell them, yeah, I'm having thoughts of violence.
I'm going to go and kill lots of people. Oh
Yet if he asks you if you have thoughts of violence,
you just say no, I have no thoughts of violence
there and he says, okay, no thoughts of violence and
moves on.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And so so we have a system to actually identify this,
but sometimes it can be thwarted.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Lots of times it's thwarted.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Look, there's a whole academic literature that's been written up
by these academics trying to explain why they're unable to
identify these because they know they can't identify these individuals.
And basically what happens when the right in the write
ups is they say, look, take something like schizophrenia so
(26:31):
I guess we recently had one mass murderer who was
a schizophrenic. Maybe over the last twenty five years or so,
we've had two in any given year. We have about
two point five million schizophrenics in the United States. If
I were to go to a mental health care expert,
(26:51):
I say, look, evaluate this two point five million and
find the thousand which are most likely to engage in
these mass shootings. Even if they picked the guy, they'd
still be wrong nine hundred and ninety nine times on that.
And there's a good chance they wouldn't even get the
one guy.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
That was going to be doing it.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And so the way the mental health care experts look
at this is they don't want to be wrong. Okay,
they say, it's very likely we're going to be wrong
in terms of guessing these guys here. And the other
issues are that people with mental health problems actually, on average,
tend to be less violent than the general population, and
(27:33):
they're also more likely to be victims, and so that
makes them even less or even more reticent to go
and identify these individuals as potentially troublesome. So, you know,
do I mind people getting mental health care? Sure, of
course not. But The thing is, here's the bottom line.
(27:56):
If you can't identify these individuals, what's your backup play?
What do you do at that point? And the notion
nobody is going to say, I believe that there are
anywhere good at identifying these individuals as a threat to
begin with. And so you have to go and get
rid of these gun free zones. You have to be
able to let people protect themselves.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I can give you so many quotes on our website
at crime research dot org. We've collected literally dozens of
quotes from these mass murderers and how they explicitly target
gun free zones because they know it's easier for them
to kill people and get a higher body count and
get media coverage.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
All right, John, this has been This is one eye
opening to be sure, and we could talk so much
more about this. We've got to take a break right now.
When we come back on Gun Radio Utah, we're going
to talk a little bit about TSA and transporting a
firearm on an airplane when we come back talking with
(28:57):
doctor John Lott today. It's very eye opening and correct
me if I'm wrong, John. It all comes back to
gunfree zones.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well, It comes back to that in the sense that
we're not going to be able to identify these individuals beforehand.
As I said, there's a whole academic literature by psychiatrists
and psychologists where they say they're not able to identify
these people. And so the question is, what's your backup plan?
What do you do if you can't identify individuals that
are going to go and kill people? And you know,
(29:29):
the other thing is just look around the world. The
United States is not particularly high in terms of per
capita rates of mass public shooting, you know, or school shootings.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
You look at Germany.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Germany's had several big mass public school shootings since two thousand,
We've had nine. Well, you know, we have three hundred
and forty million people. They have eighty million or eighty
three million. So if you adjust for population, given that
there are like one four of ours, that would be
the equivalent of us having twelve. Finland's had two. They
(30:05):
have five and a half million people there, that would
be the equivalent of them having like one hundred and
twenty mass public school shootings compared to ours. And so,
you know, the thing is many of those countries like
Germany and France have extremely strict gun control laws. It's
not the One thing you have to understand is these
(30:27):
individuals are planning these attacks long in advance. Six months
is a short amount of time for them to plan it.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
A year, two years.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
The Sandy Hook killer was planning it for over two
and a half years prior to the attack.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's there.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
When somebody's planning an attack like that that long in advance,
it's very difficult, and they're planning on dying on the scene,
it's very difficult to stop them from being able to
go and get the weapons or other things that they're
going to use. And one just you know, one question
I often ask people because they just assumed that the
(31:01):
United States is unique.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I mean, I don't know how many times.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
We've heard it from politicians or the media that the
United States is unique in terms of mass public shootings.
We rank out of the one hundred and one countries
that I've gotten data on over the twenty years from
nineteen ninety eight through twenty seventeen, the United States ranked
like sixty fifth out of one hundred and one countries.
(31:24):
And it's just and many of these countries have much
higher rates, have very strict gun control laws, it's not
stopping them doing. If you just compare Western Europe to
the United States, and I'm going to ask you, can
you tell me since twenty ten where the two worst
mass public shootings have occurred. People think it's in the
(31:46):
United States. No, The worst was in France, in Paris
in twenty fifteen, where one hundred and thirty people were
killed at a concert. The second worst was in Norway.
If you ignore the desks that were there and just
concentrate only on the shooting desk, sixty seven people were
killed there. Both of those are much worse than the
(32:08):
worst mass public shooting in the United States.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
If you want to find articles like this that doctor
Lotter is referring to that he is researched, you can
go to crime research dot org crimeresearch dot org. While
you're there, hit the donate button and do that. All right,
let's talk about TSA. A lot of people are traveling.
They want to travel with a firearm. They are intimidated into,
oh my gosh, it's going to be such a big castle,
(32:32):
and it really isn't. And you know, it varies by airport,
even though the TSA rigs are the same, and you
can read the requirements. You can actually literally go to
the TSA website and see what you need to do.
Then you can also literally go to the Code of
Federal Regulations, go to forty nine CFR fifteen forty and
(32:55):
look at it. And some people, you know, like to
actually print that out when they go there, just in case,
because there's you know, whether it be the ticket agent
or somebody at the DSA that is telling you, well,
you have to do it this way or you can't
do it this way. It's nice to have the paperwork
right there to kind of not shove it in their
(33:15):
face necessarily, but remind them perhaps refer them to why
you packed it this way. So you want to you
want to travel with a with a firearm, First off,
it's got to be one in your checked luggage, not
in your carry on. Two, it must be declared. You
must run into the airport and declare I have a firearm. No,
(33:35):
probably not best do it that way. The best way
to do it is you can't do it at the
curb side. You got to go up to the ticket counter.
A lot of times you have the the the the
the or gate agent, not gate agent, but the ticket agent. Uh,
you can just do everything seamlessly. Now, if you're not
traveling with a firearm and you just go get your
(33:56):
own little baggage tag and everything, Nope, you can't do that.
You got to go to the special handling lane and
just calmly say something to the effect of I am
traveling with an unloaded firearm in my checked luggage. All right.
So most of the time they'll just look at you
and say, okay, you need to fill out this little
paper and it shows your name, your address, your phone number,
(34:17):
your flight number, today's date, and you essentially sign it
and say, I'm traveling, you know, I declare under under
federal law, violation of federal law that the firearms I'm
traveling with are unloaded. Now, it's got to be in
a case that is hard sighted. So and a lot
of times the sometimes they actually have in there that
(34:41):
you can use the case that the gun came in.
If it's substantial enough, and if it locks, Now, if
it has one hole for a lock, say in the center,
you've got to put a lock there. It does not
have to be a TSA approved lock. And I'm trying
to run through this really quick here. If if it
has two holes, say, one on each side. You've got
(35:02):
to have two locks because TSA will say that it
is able to be opened if the locks are so pathetic.
They literally have in the code that the locks have
to be of a substantial enough nature to not be
you know, sacrifice whatever. Then ammunition, ammunition a big thing.
(35:26):
You can have it, can't have it loaded. Now, you
can have ammunition in a magazine, but the magazine has
to go into a pouch otherwise. Uh.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
And and.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
They consider it loaded if you have the magazine loaded
and it's not in a pouch anyways. Beyond that, if
you don't have that, you can put ammunition in a
the original box that it came in or something like that.
All right, what else, Uh, if you violate this, there
are fines of up to fourteen thousand dollars up to
I mean, if you're probably trying to wrap the gun
(36:02):
in foil and avoid it civil penalties. You can lose
your TSA pre checks that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
The other thing, I always put an air tag or
a one of those tiles or something in my luggage
in there. And I also once it's in there, I
take I snap a photo of it of what it
looks like anyway, so many of these things that I
wish we had more time. Anyway, Enjoy your Labor Day
(36:30):
weekend and we'll be back again next week. Uh, doctor Lot,
thank you very much for being on Gun Radio Utah
appreciate it.
You Ti, I'm your host, Clark Oropotion. Bill Betterson my
co host, and he's a director of the Utah Sitting
Sports Council. Is out on an excused absence. Well he's out.
He didn't necessarily ask if he could be excused. I
do believe that it that his daughter Becky is getting married.
So congratulations, no best wishes. You're supposed to say best
(00:20):
wishes to the woman and congratulations to the man. That's
what I've heard on wedding things. So anyway, so good
for them. And I have told him that, you know,
regardless of the thing, he could still call in remotely.
But we'll see how that goes. We'll shout out to uh.
So I'm I'm here in the studio. Normally i'd be,
(00:40):
you know, half the time. I'm a ghost eye out
in a beautiful northern Uinta county. And Casey Jane kicked
me out of the house because for the weekend, because
she wanted her friends Noel and Katie and Heidi to
have the place to themselves. Oh not only not only
did she kick me out, she made me take the
(01:03):
dogs with me too. So I've got I've got Kanga
and fancy chancey uh with me? Not not in the
studio today though.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well maybe you and I can get dinner afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so all right so anyway, Oh,
by the way, did you know who that was? That's
doctor John Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center,
And uh, I really I needed John to come on today.
He wrote a really great op ad in the Wall
(01:36):
Street Journal. And did they edit that down?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Did they?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Did they cut it down or anything?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Cut one paragraph off?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I think it was like the third to last paragraph.
I had international comparisons on mass public shootings.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So take a look at it. It's called another mass
shooting in a gun Free Zone. Uh, it's it's a
op ed at the Wall Street Journal. So and you have.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Done our website at Crime Research dot orgon it's all there.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
They don't need the membership for the Wall Street Journal
to read it on our website.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So you and Thomas Massey did this one.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, So twenty first op ed I've written with Thomas.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So yeah, he's pretty good. You guys are buddies.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We are pretty good.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah. So we're going to be talking about this op
ad and even we're going to expand it too. Much bigger,
because I'm really excited to get some insight from you
as to what we don't know, even though you've written
about it a lot. I know, but what we don't know,
what we don't realize because I get my information from
(02:46):
the media, I really do.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Big mistake.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Huh. Well, yeah, I mean I look at it critically.
But we're gonna, I know we're going. We're going to
be playing some great clips, A couple of great clips
from our good friend O'Donnell, who I believe is a
I believe she's in Ireland now. I think I think
she left for Australia.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Came back.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Did she come back?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I think. I don't know. I know she went to
Ireland for a little while.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
But yeah, so anyway, and then the mayor of Minneapolis
gives us some interesting advice and education on firearms, especially
what he calls assault rifles. Later on in the show,
I really want to get to I've been getting a
lot of phone calls. People are planning their big trips
and I don't know. I guess the kids are back
(03:34):
in the school. They leave them in school and they
just go off on a big trip and they fly
and they want to know all these questions about should
I even travel with a firearm if I'm going on
an airplane, and is it too much of a hassle,
and so on and so forth. So I'm here to
tell you now, you know, we have what twenty nine
almost thirty, really close to thirty permitless carry states, and
(03:57):
if you have a Utah permit, the odds are that
your permit is good in the state you're going to.
And now we live in a time and an age
that even states like California have to issue whereas they
won't recognize the UTAP or meit, they don't recognize any permits,
but they have to issue you if you apply for it.
(04:17):
A concealed cary permit good in California, and it's good
throughout the count good throughout the state.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's a bit of a pain though, because you have
to be in the county that you that's going to
issue it, and there's all sorts of restrictions. It's much
more difficult still for an out of state person to
get a permit in California than it is an in state.
Now that's being challenged, but it's going to be a
little while before that works its way back through the courts.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
However, I have been in communication with some folks in
El Dorado County, California, uh huh, and that that is
actually there's a few because it's it's run by the
county sheriffs. But according to the California state law, so it.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Used to be just the sheriffs were kind of in
charge of it, and then you'd have the sheriff and
Sacramento County was giving out permits to people from around
the state that was there, and so the state stopped that.
So you can only do it for the sheriff for
the residents that you're in the county. Plus they imposed
(05:19):
a sixteen hour training requirement that's there, and there's some
other things that they've done, of course, and after Bruin,
they passed a bill that greatly were limits where you
can carry. Now you know, they had no problems with.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
All the sensitive places. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's ridiculous. However,
that is that is changing with the different courts and ultimately,
you know, the United States Supreme Court, but there's a
lot of courts that are striking down some of these
sensitive places things. And where was it that they Tennessee,
(05:54):
they had banned you know, you don't think of Tennessee
as a restrictive one, but they did. You say you
couldn't carry in a park and if you were carrying,
you could be charged with what is it armed carrying
while or walking around armed or something like that. It
literally but you had an affirmative defense to say, well,
(06:17):
I've got a permitter, I'm you know, otherwise lawful. So
they literally just got rid of that last week, I
do believe. So anyway, we're going to talk about how
to travel on an airplane with your firearm and what
the different things are, and there's so many just there's
so many misunderstandings. And my friend told me this, and
my friend said you could do this, and blah blah blah.
(06:41):
So I mean, I have a really good understanding of it.
But I also pulled up the TSA rigs and under
forty nine CFRs and all that, and so we're going
to be talking about that. But let's see what else
said we got. We got that. You know, I really
want to take some time, uh to talk about We've
(07:02):
only got a minute and a half or so left
on this one, but I want to talk when we
come back about this mass shooting in a gun free zone.
I'm going to ask the questions to you, John, why,
uh you know, define gun free zones one or two?
Why why did he choose this church? And so many
(07:28):
other things? And then I want to talk about other
mass shooters. What are the commonality what are the similarities
between this person? I don't know if it's a he
or she. I can't anyway, Yeah it's a yeah, and
and them. And then I want to talk about media
bias and and and how it's uh, how it's so
(07:49):
strong in this one. All right, when we come back
on gun Radio, Utah, stay tuned. President of the Crime
Research Prevention Center Crime Crime Okay, okay, say it John.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Well, if you say crime research prevention, it's kind of
like we're providing preventing crime research.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
We're not doing that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
No, we're not preventing crime research, Crime Prevention, Crime Prevention
Research Center.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay, you know what, Just go to crimeresearch dot org.
Just go to crimeresearch dot org and hit the donate button.
Just do just do it. Just do it. You'll feel
a lot better about yourself if you do that. And
you can pull up the articles, because we're going to
be pulling up We're going to be talking about your
op ed. We're going to go much deeper than that
in Wall Street Journal another mass shooting in a gun
(08:36):
free zone that you did with Thomas Massey. So but
you know, and I want to get into this, if
you get your information from the media, you said that
was a big mistake, John, and I agree with you,
but sometimes that's all we have. At the beginning, I
want to play from MSNBC a clip from mayor Mayor Frey,
(08:59):
who's the mayor of Minneapolis. And this is I guess
who we're supposed to be getting our firearm information from.
Let's see, do I have that ready to Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I do.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
The reality is is that we have these assault rifles
that can reel off thirty clips in conjunction with a
magazine before the person even needs to relook.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, so that just hurts my brain. Thirty clips in
conjunction with a magazine. Not I am really not sure
where to go. But he said the reality is, and
so he puts it as that's the reality. So anyway,
(09:42):
and then we have not to forget Rosie O'Donnell and
she was on what Real America's Voice or something like this,
and she was and so she's explaining, this is not
the day of the shooting. This is three days after
the shooting. Let's tell you at.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Least I'm sure she has inside information.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Then yeah, well yeah, so this is her understanding of
what happened. Oh, let me cue this one up here too.
There's that, okay, And what.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Was a white guy, republican.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Maga person? What do you know? What do we know exactly,
white guy Republican person, maga What do we know, Rosie?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We know that?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Uh you, your brain is not encumbered by facts. So anyway,
all right, John, another mass shooting in a gun free zone.
And you say that, like other killers, that he sought
this out. Explained that what do you mean he sought
out a gun free zone?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
You know, one of the biggest pet peeves I've had
with the media is that, time after time after time,
these mass murderers, in their diaries and manifestos, go into
great detail explaining why they picked the targets that they do.
And this guy is no different. And it's for the
same reasons that all these other ones are. So he
(11:16):
has multiple discussions and here about just three dy one
he said, quote. I recently heard a rumor that James Holmes,
the Aurora Theater shooter, may have chosen venues that were
quote gun free zones unquote. I would probably aim the
same way. Holmes wanted to make sure his victims would
(11:36):
be unarmed. That's why I and many others like schools
so much. At least for me, I'm focused on them.
Adam Lanza is my reason end quote.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And of course.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Lanza is the guy who did the Sandy Hook Elementary
school shooting. But you know it's the media. It's clear
they read his manifesto. They make references to parts of
it that deal with other school shooters. They make references
to him talking about, you know, other mass murderers that
(12:12):
are there. But he's making reference to them because he's
learning from them and he wants to go and do
it in a gun free zone. And you know he's
also he even talks about things like he doesn't want
to go in the early morning when parents are dropping
off their kids or later in the afternoon because a
(12:32):
parent might have a concealed handgun with them and he
wants to avoid that.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And so you're saying they may be crazy, but they're not.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That's stupid.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Look, the thing is anybody who reads any of these
diaries of manifestos, you see a consistent pattern. This guy
was suicidal. They're virtually all suicidal. But they want to
get attention. They feel unappreciated, they feel society's wronged them
in some way, and they want to get attention. And
(13:04):
they know, and they say explicitly many times, if I
can only kill more people than such and such did,
I can get even more media attention. And they know,
and they say explicitly, if they go to a place
where guns are banned, then they're going to be able
to go and kill more people and get more media attention.
(13:25):
So you know, this isn't really difficult to go and
figure out, but it's just the media refuses. You will
look in vain to find even one news story, like
within a day or so of the attack that will
go and mention that why he picked the target that
he did. Instead, they'll say, well, we think maybe it
(13:46):
has something to do with his mom having worked at
the parish there or something like that, but they don't
have any quotes for that. They just infer from other
facts that are there. But yet what he explicitly says
they ignore. My own guess is that this gun control
debate that we have these days would be very different
if the media would asks the report what's in the
(14:09):
manifestos and diaries and say, you know, we've had yet
another mass public school shooting, or another mass shooting where
the murderer explicitly picked a target where he knew his
victims weren't able to go and defend themselves.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And rather rather the media. So I'm try interpt because
I know you hate that. But what the media would
rather do is give airtime to people like Mayor Frey
or Rosie O'Donnell who's talking about universal background checks or
red flag laws or assault weapons, and completely forget the
(14:45):
idea of oh and by the way, what about Minnesota
and those laws?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Well, as both of those laws has universal background checks. Look,
you go back through the Obama administration, the Biden administration,
the number one thing that they constantly would bring up
and after a mass shooting would be we need universal
background checks. The thing is, it wouldn't have stopped this one.
(15:11):
It wouldn't have stopped one mass public shooting this century,
even if a law had been in a place nationally
and been perfectly enforced.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And I wish I.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Only know like one time, I remember a reporter asking
a politician this when they were saying, we need to
have these background checks. Just say, well, would it have
stopped this attack? Would it have stopped any mass public shooting?
You know, I want to do something, but I want
to do something that works. Okay, And the thing is
so like you could say, okay, well, these guys are
(15:41):
doing it for attention.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
They want to get media coverage.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Well, you know, one option would be to rewrite the
First Amendment. I'm not supporting that. I don't even know
how you would rewrite it in any way that would
be possible. But you can short circuit them because they
have figured out that if they go to places and
it's the reason why ninety two percent of the mass
public shootings have taken place in areas where guns are banned,
(16:06):
that if you make if you convince them that they're
not going to be able to kill that many people,
so that means they're not going to get that much
media attention, then you've taken away their goal and their
return from going and doing this type of thing. And
you'll convince some of them who would have done it
otherwise not to do it. And you know, we have
(16:31):
over ten thousand schools in the United States public schools
that have armed teachers or staff. Obviously, Utah and New
Hampshire have two of the best laws in the country
with regard to that, though Wyoming just passed something similar
to Utah. And you know, we've had schools that have
(16:52):
had it for decades. There has not been one attack
where anybody's been killed or wounded in a school where
teachers and staff can carry. All the attacks have occurred
in schools where they're not allowed to carry. And one
of the debates I've often had with conservatives is they
(17:13):
want to go and have.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Armed uniform police officer.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, why not put more armed police officers in schools?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
And my response is basically, look, we have air marshals
on planes as in a comparison. Does anybody think air
marshals ought to be in uniform? I assume not, okay,
And the reason is is because if you do happen
to have a terrorist on the plane, who's he going
to take out? The one guy that he knows is
(17:42):
the air marshal because he's in uniform. And the same
principle applies when you're talking about uniformed police. People have
to appreciate what a difficult job a uniformed officer has.
So if I'm going to go shoot up a place
and I see a police officer there, I have certain
tactical options that are there. One is, if they're multiple
(18:02):
buildings at the school, I can wait for the officer
to leave and move to another building, or I can
go to another building to go an attack. Or if
I'm going to insist on attacking in that one place there,
who am I going to go and shoot first?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's going to be the police officer there. And so.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
We've just finished some research looking at all the active
shootings in the United States over the ten years from
twenty fourteen through twenty twenty three, and what we found
was that concealed carry permit holders were more likely to
stop at much higher rate than police these attacks. They'd
stopped them sooner, so there were fewer injuries or are
people killed in those attacks. And when police were involved,
(18:47):
they were seven times more likely to get killed than
civilians because they're the targets there and they're not less
likely to be there because the attackers understandably avoid attacking
places where.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
They see them.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
When we come back on gun Radio, Utah. John, I
want to continue this, but I want to get into
a little bit of mental health and I want to
know about some of the patterns that you've noticed in
these shootings regarding mental health. When we come back on
Gun Radio, Utah, stay tuned. No, we own up to it,
we just don't apologize for it. Hey, let me tell you.
If you've got a gun that is not everything you
want it to be, get it over to the gunsmith,
(19:24):
a sportsman's warehouse. Anything. I can't think of anything they
don't do to it. They won't illegally modify it, though
I don't. Yeah, they won't. They won't do that. But
everything else that is necessary, whether it be for your
stock to install mos you so you can put a
red dot on your pistol or something like that, engraving
(19:47):
Sarah big On, Sarah Coating, all that kind of stuff,
but all the way down to rechambering your rifle for
a different cartridge. Get it over to the gunsmith a
sportsman's warehouse sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West and Salt City.
Give them a call it Ato one three zero four
eighty seventy, or you can take it into any of
the over one hundred and forty six sportsman's warehouse locations,
(20:09):
there's got to be one near you. And they are
open till five o'clock today. By the way. Also, hey,
speaking of places that are open until five o'clock, flash
my brass at their two locations four thirty eight West
one hundred and twenty third South in Draper and in
Orum eighteen oh two sand Hill Road in Orum. Let
(20:30):
me tell you about the deals they've got going until
five o'clock in I think it goes through Monday. One
hundred and ninety nine bucks for five hundred rounds of
two two three ammo. And that's not cheap. That's BVAC
Bitterroot Valley AMMO company. That's good stuff. In addition to
so many other fantastic deals on all the calibers you shoot,
(20:53):
and they even have some obscure calibers that you know
that maybe you've got a gun that you just don't
shoot because you don't have it come out. You can
give them a call their their Draper location three eight
five two two one three zero ninety nine. That's three
eight five two two one three zero nine nine. And
while I'm on this role, I am going to tell
(21:14):
you Gun Rights Policy Conference sponsored by the Second Amendment
Foundation and the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep
in Bear Arms. SAF is one of those groups that
is always actively the tip of the spear when it
comes to legal challenges in the lower courts and all
the way up to and including the United States Supreme Court.
(21:35):
SAF go to SAF dot org slash gRPC for the
Gun Rights Policy Conference which is coming here to Utah
September twenty sixth to the twenty eighth. It's their fortieth
annual meeting and it's going to be at the Salt
Lake City Mariotte. Sign up register if you will. It's
(21:57):
the only time I would say register for anything with firearms.
But SAF dot org slash g RPC, and we're going
to have some folks on from SAF. I think it
might be next week. So anyways, we have been talking
with doctor John Lott about well one about your op
(22:19):
ad in the Wall Street Journal with Thomas Massey. But
I want to expand a little bit farther, John, I
want to explore mental illness. What can we do? How
well does that work? Let's talk about that with regards
to these shootings.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Look, I mean obviously the person who did this was
mentally ill, and in some sense, virtually all these individuals
are as we mentioned before, they're suicidal. Virtually all of
them are suicidal. They plan on dying. It's just some
point along the line. I mean, we've always had suicidal people,
but some point along the line, decades ago, people realize
(23:00):
that they could go and get national and international news
attention if they killed lots of other people with them
when they tried to when they were ending their own life.
And interesting thing to me on our website at crimeresearch
dot org, we've done a deep dive into these individuals
and what you find is that a little bit more
(23:22):
than half, slightly more than half, we're actually seeing mental
health care professionals relatively shortly before they engaged in their attacks.
But the amazing thing to me was that in not
one single case did any of these mental health care
professionals identify these individuals as a danger to themselves or others.
(23:43):
And when you look at it, you realize that there's
a problem with the way mental health is set up,
and that is their model in psychiatry and psychology is
people who have problems come in and they want to help.
That these medical professionals just assume that these people are
(24:04):
telling them the truth about these things. And so I'll
give you an example or two.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
There was a few years ago.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
There was the Buffalo mass murderer and the grocery store.
The year before, the guy had been in high school
and the teacher had asked him what he was going
to be doing over the summer, and he said, well,
you know, I'm going to go and find a school
that's having summer school, and I'm going to go and
try to murder lots of people there, and then I'm
(24:35):
going to go and commit suicide. So obviously the teacher
was concerned about that, and so she flagged him and
he had to go and see two mental health care experts.
But he told them, he said, look, it was a
dumb joke. I shouldn't have said it. I'm sorry he
got taken incorrectly, and you know, I was just joking.
(24:58):
And so they said, okay, he was, and they let
him go. You look at something like the Santa Barbara
mass murder, he had actually been seeing three mental health
care professionals. His parents have been concerned, and one of
the professionals that he was seeing was the head of
(25:21):
children's psychiatry at Children's Hospital in Los Angeles. This guy
was a world recognized expert on youth violence, and yet
he wasn't able to identify this individual is a danger
to himself for others. If you read the diary, that
murderer had a detailed diary, and he was going through
(25:43):
about how easy it was to go and fool these
people that unless you're a complete idiot, you're not going
to go and tell them, yeah, I'm having thoughts of violence.
I'm going to go and kill lots of people. Oh
Yet if he asks you if you have thoughts of violence,
you just say no, I have no thoughts of violence
there and he says, okay, no thoughts of violence and
moves on.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And so so we have a system to actually identify this,
but sometimes it can be thwarted.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Lots of times it's thwarted.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Look, there's a whole academic literature that's been written up
by these academics trying to explain why they're unable to
identify these because they know they can't identify these individuals.
And basically what happens when the right in the write
ups is they say, look, take something like schizophrenia so
(26:31):
I guess we recently had one mass murderer who was
a schizophrenic. Maybe over the last twenty five years or so,
we've had two in any given year. We have about
two point five million schizophrenics in the United States. If
I were to go to a mental health care expert,
(26:51):
I say, look, evaluate this two point five million and
find the thousand which are most likely to engage in
these mass shootings. Even if they picked the guy, they'd
still be wrong nine hundred and ninety nine times on that.
And there's a good chance they wouldn't even get the
one guy.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
That was going to be doing it.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And so the way the mental health care experts look
at this is they don't want to be wrong. Okay,
they say, it's very likely we're going to be wrong
in terms of guessing these guys here. And the other
issues are that people with mental health problems actually, on average,
tend to be less violent than the general population, and
(27:33):
they're also more likely to be victims, and so that
makes them even less or even more reticent to go
and identify these individuals as potentially troublesome. So, you know,
do I mind people getting mental health care? Sure, of
course not. But The thing is, here's the bottom line.
(27:56):
If you can't identify these individuals, what's your backup play?
What do you do at that point? And the notion
nobody is going to say, I believe that there are
anywhere good at identifying these individuals as a threat to
begin with. And so you have to go and get
rid of these gun free zones. You have to be
able to let people protect themselves.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I can give you so many quotes on our website
at crime research dot org. We've collected literally dozens of
quotes from these mass murderers and how they explicitly target
gun free zones because they know it's easier for them
to kill people and get a higher body count and
get media coverage.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
All right, John, this has been This is one eye
opening to be sure, and we could talk so much
more about this. We've got to take a break right now.
When we come back on Gun Radio Utah, we're going
to talk a little bit about TSA and transporting a
firearm on an airplane when we come back talking with
(28:57):
doctor John Lott today. It's very eye opening and correct
me if I'm wrong, John. It all comes back to
gunfree zones.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well, It comes back to that in the sense that
we're not going to be able to identify these individuals beforehand.
As I said, there's a whole academic literature by psychiatrists
and psychologists where they say they're not able to identify
these people. And so the question is, what's your backup plan?
What do you do if you can't identify individuals that
are going to go and kill people? And you know,
(29:29):
the other thing is just look around the world. The
United States is not particularly high in terms of per
capita rates of mass public shooting, you know, or school shootings.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
You look at Germany.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Germany's had several big mass public school shootings since two thousand,
We've had nine. Well, you know, we have three hundred
and forty million people. They have eighty million or eighty
three million. So if you adjust for population, given that
there are like one four of ours, that would be
the equivalent of us having twelve. Finland's had two. They
(30:05):
have five and a half million people there, that would
be the equivalent of them having like one hundred and
twenty mass public school shootings compared to ours. And so,
you know, the thing is many of those countries like
Germany and France have extremely strict gun control laws. It's
not the One thing you have to understand is these
(30:27):
individuals are planning these attacks long in advance. Six months
is a short amount of time for them to plan it.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
A year, two years.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
The Sandy Hook killer was planning it for over two
and a half years prior to the attack.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's there.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
When somebody's planning an attack like that that long in advance,
it's very difficult, and they're planning on dying on the scene,
it's very difficult to stop them from being able to
go and get the weapons or other things that they're
going to use. And one just you know, one question
I often ask people because they just assumed that the
(31:01):
United States is unique.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I mean, I don't know how many times.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
We've heard it from politicians or the media that the
United States is unique in terms of mass public shootings.
We rank out of the one hundred and one countries
that I've gotten data on over the twenty years from
nineteen ninety eight through twenty seventeen, the United States ranked
like sixty fifth out of one hundred and one countries.
(31:24):
And it's just and many of these countries have much
higher rates, have very strict gun control laws, it's not
stopping them doing. If you just compare Western Europe to
the United States, and I'm going to ask you, can
you tell me since twenty ten where the two worst
mass public shootings have occurred. People think it's in the
(31:46):
United States. No, The worst was in France, in Paris
in twenty fifteen, where one hundred and thirty people were
killed at a concert. The second worst was in Norway.
If you ignore the desks that were there and just
concentrate only on the shooting desk, sixty seven people were
killed there. Both of those are much worse than the
(32:08):
worst mass public shooting in the United States.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
If you want to find articles like this that doctor
Lotter is referring to that he is researched, you can
go to crime research dot org crimeresearch dot org. While
you're there, hit the donate button and do that. All right,
let's talk about TSA. A lot of people are traveling.
They want to travel with a firearm. They are intimidated into,
oh my gosh, it's going to be such a big castle,
(32:32):
and it really isn't. And you know, it varies by airport,
even though the TSA rigs are the same, and you
can read the requirements. You can actually literally go to
the TSA website and see what you need to do.
Then you can also literally go to the Code of
Federal Regulations, go to forty nine CFR fifteen forty and
(32:55):
look at it. And some people, you know, like to
actually print that out when they go there, just in case,
because there's you know, whether it be the ticket agent
or somebody at the DSA that is telling you, well,
you have to do it this way or you can't
do it this way. It's nice to have the paperwork
right there to kind of not shove it in their
(33:15):
face necessarily, but remind them perhaps refer them to why
you packed it this way. So you want to you
want to travel with a with a firearm, First off,
it's got to be one in your checked luggage, not
in your carry on. Two, it must be declared. You
must run into the airport and declare I have a firearm. No,
(33:35):
probably not best do it that way. The best way
to do it is you can't do it at the
curb side. You got to go up to the ticket counter.
A lot of times you have the the the the
the or gate agent, not gate agent, but the ticket agent. Uh,
you can just do everything seamlessly. Now, if you're not
traveling with a firearm and you just go get your
(33:56):
own little baggage tag and everything, Nope, you can't do that.
You got to go to the special handling lane and
just calmly say something to the effect of I am
traveling with an unloaded firearm in my checked luggage. All right.
So most of the time they'll just look at you
and say, okay, you need to fill out this little
paper and it shows your name, your address, your phone number,
(34:17):
your flight number, today's date, and you essentially sign it
and say, I'm traveling, you know, I declare under under
federal law, violation of federal law that the firearms I'm
traveling with are unloaded. Now, it's got to be in
a case that is hard sighted. So and a lot
of times the sometimes they actually have in there that
(34:41):
you can use the case that the gun came in.
If it's substantial enough, and if it locks, Now, if
it has one hole for a lock, say in the center,
you've got to put a lock there. It does not
have to be a TSA approved lock. And I'm trying
to run through this really quick here. If if it
has two holes, say, one on each side. You've got
(35:02):
to have two locks because TSA will say that it
is able to be opened if the locks are so pathetic.
They literally have in the code that the locks have
to be of a substantial enough nature to not be
you know, sacrifice whatever. Then ammunition, ammunition a big thing.
(35:26):
You can have it, can't have it loaded. Now, you
can have ammunition in a magazine, but the magazine has
to go into a pouch otherwise. Uh.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
And and.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
They consider it loaded if you have the magazine loaded
and it's not in a pouch anyways. Beyond that, if
you don't have that, you can put ammunition in a
the original box that it came in or something like that.
All right, what else, Uh, if you violate this, there
are fines of up to fourteen thousand dollars up to
I mean, if you're probably trying to wrap the gun
(36:02):
in foil and avoid it civil penalties. You can lose
your TSA pre checks that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
The other thing, I always put an air tag or
a one of those tiles or something in my luggage
in there. And I also once it's in there, I
take I snap a photo of it of what it
looks like anyway, so many of these things that I
wish we had more time. Anyway, Enjoy your Labor Day
(36:30):
weekend and we'll be back again next week. Uh, doctor Lot,
thank you very much for being on Gun Radio Utah
appreciate it.
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