Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Director of Utah Shooting Sports Council. Uh, Bill, we are,
we're separated here. You're in Salt Lake City. You just
I guess you could just got back from the no
Kings thing, and and and thank goodness you did a
good job, because apparently we still don't have any kings.
But anyway, yeah, I am the roving correspondent down in
(00:21):
Cedar City right now, and so if if our internet goes,
I'll switch back and forth to some to our alternate
means of communication, the tin can with string. So, uh Bill,
we're gonna talk a little bit. We're going to talk
in an an slary way about the no Kings thing.
We're going to talk about other public gatherings. I hear
(00:43):
there's another public gathering down in south in Utah County.
Uh this evening, is that right?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah? I think you Yeah, six o'clock, I think spread
all over throughout YouTube.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Okay, So we're gonna we're gonna be talking about public
gatherings and and to the degree to which can they
ban firearms and should they ban guns and so on?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Of course the answer is no.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Anyway, we're gonna we're gonna definitely talk about that, you know,
I'm down here. Actually I've got to do some training.
So I've got some fantastic, fantastic client and their group
of officers are I'm training them tomorrow at the I
can't remember the range, but it's Cedar City. It's at
the Cedar City Range way east of here.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Is it Iron count What county?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Is it? Iron County? Iron County? Iron County Range?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Really a nice range, So we'll be out there and
it promises to be some good weather as opposed to
the last time we did thirty people where we had
more rain. Well, I think it was the second most
rain they've ever had and a clerk just happened to
be outside.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
All the time in it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We'll talk about that, maybe some training tips and what
can you expect Bill. You know, we've we've got the
two hundred dollar tax stamp that goes away for suppressors
and I believe I'm pretty sure short railed rifle shotguns
and that kind of stuff. Iow's, well aow's were five bucks,
(02:13):
but you still.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Got the registration on them.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And I want to talk about should you buy it
now and pay the two hundred dollars and what is
the advantage of doing it? Now versus waiting till after January. First,
have you heard any Well, we're going to get into that.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I've heard, I've heard a lot of different talks on that,
but my thought is the heck was given them two
hundred bucks period.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, So we're going to talk about that, especially since
we've got the state leg I have to make sure
it's we don't call it the state suppressor, the State
legislative or the Utah Legislative suppressor coming out, and it
is going to be a silencer co of course that's
Utah made.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So I'm going to be talking about that. Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So, we've been in lots of communication with Rock Island Armory.
Rock Island Armory also Arms Corps. They're kind of one
owns the other. I think armscore ooms Rock Island, Ria,
and there are the Philippines. But they have been making
guns in Perump, Nevada, and more recently not in the
(03:24):
last few years, they've been actually manufacturing some fantastic neat
guns right here in Cedar City, Utah. And I love
it that they're stamped made in Cedar City, Utah, so
as opposed to Perump.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
So we're going to talk about that. If we have time.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I do want to go over doctor John Lott's newest
article in Real Clear Investigations, and it's titled the FBI's
strange refusal to fix key crime stats. And I want
to tell you why it's why it's it's it's it's
interesting as to why they're doing this. But anyway, so Bill,
(04:08):
you were just we basically passed each other on the freeway,
I think from you were down in Cedar City.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
What were you doing?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I was up on Cedar Mountain. Elk cunning with
a good family, good friend of mine drew out a
limited entry ELK tag and so we're up.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Or what does that mean? What's a limited What is
limited entry ELK tag? So a limited entry ELK tag.
We've talked about this on the show before when I
was drawn out from mine. You have to apply for
it every year, and if you don't draw out, you
get a point, and then you accumulate all these points,
and the more points you get, the more odds you
have of drawing that tag. Well, guess how many years
(04:49):
he took my friend to draw his tag? At ten years,
keep in mind mine was twenty eight years. Oh yeah,
you finally got yours after twenty eight years, so yeah,
you can you want to hit many Well, I'm gonna
say it was twenty.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Years now, okay, thirty thirty years. Yeah, Utah it sucks.
Utah's I mean their draw program sucks. I mean, he's
sixty eight years.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
To pay a bunch of money, though, couldn't you just
pay a bunch of money and go hunt on somebody's
land or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, you could pay a bunch of money or you
don't even have to pay anything. I mean, just go
poach one if you wanted.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
No, I wouldn't recommend doing that.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Bill. I know he tastes just a good gun radio Utah. No, apologies,
does not does not promote poaching, does not promote. No.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But I wish there was a better way. And they
keep coming back saying it's the best way. It's best way.
Well everyone around Utah, Montana, Idaho. Why they'll say Utah
sucks when it comes to hunting permits, and I.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
It's very expense. I've heard that it's very very expensive here.
It can be pricey, but it's actually it's not too bad.
The price isn't too bad. It's just waiting.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I mean, because what they call a limited entry tag,
they might as well just rename it to once in
a lifetime tag because you'll never draw because after you
draw that tag, you have to wait five years to.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Start, and then you're down to zero points.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Also, yeah, you're zero points.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, so you wait five years and then you're down
to start.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, So do you recommend that spouses also, you know,
do that too, And.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I would, I would, I would encourage it. And as
soon as your kids are young enough to hunt, get
them in it as quickly as possible. They have a
better chance of drawing multiple tags, you know, throughout now
and now.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But but if your spouse does this, they have to
be the one to.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Actually pull the trigger.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
They're the ones that can't just like let me borrow
your tag or something. Can't do that.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that was back in there now seventies when they
used to.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Do you didn't you didn't have a tag though, did
you this? No, this this last week, but you did
go up there.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, So I went up as a set of eyes
and a set of legs, you know, to help pull
it out if once they got it. But I think
we'll we'll talk about that here in an upcoming segment.
But because that it was actually a really great story
how we we were successful in getting his elk and
and uh, but you're lucky because you're down in Cedar
(07:28):
City right now with great weather. We did not have
great weather. We froze our we got I got rained on.
I mean, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Isn't that good? Isn't that?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I'm told that's good elk weather though.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh yeah, No for me, four inches six inches of
snow on the ground, I will hunt elk till my
legs fall off. I love it, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So tell you what when we when we do come back,
which will be right back, I want to get into
some of the rallies, some of the big groups, the
things that are happening and where they're talking about increased
security in that type of thing and what can you do?
What are the laws and that kind of thing. When
we get into it, and we'll be right back on
(08:12):
gun Radio Utah. Stay right there, grab.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
The podcast, oh to iHeartMedia or go to your favorite
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all the exciting events and the things that we've covered today.
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Speaker 4 (08:46):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
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Speaker 1 (09:00):
All right, So Bill, Yeah, I think I think they
actually had a no Kings thing in Vernal and a
rally or get together. I think they used the back
booth at Denny's and were able to they I don't
think they.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Even filled up the all six chairs. But then I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I don't know how it went here in Cedar City,
but apparently they had one.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
And so, you know, I.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Was listening to.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Was that? Me? Is that coming from the hallway here? Okay? Anyway,
so I was I was listening to the news reports,
and they said that there was increased security at the
at the event at the Capitol, because they held it
at the Salt Lake. One held it just at the Capitol,
(09:52):
and I don't know what they were.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I don't know how you increase the security.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I mean, there was there was a lot of people
there and there was no way there would be enough
coverage of law enforcement to find that one person in
that group that decided to cause a problem or whatever. Anyway,
But then they also they mentioned, hey, you know at
the BYU Utah game that's being held at Lavelle Edwards
(10:17):
Stadium this evening, that there was increased security there and
that there would be bag checks and you're not supposed
to bring in bags and no weapons allowed, no firearms
even with permit holders. So can they do that, Well,
the answer is yes, at BYU they can. Now if
this were being held at Rice Cycles, no they can't.
(10:37):
You would have to have a permit because Utah law says,
you know, to be on the premises there, you have
to have a permit. Now, you could be eighteen with
a provisional permit at Rice Cycles, but at BYU it
doesn't matter. They can restrict and I'm sure they have
metal detectors there. They can restrict firearms there.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So the reason for let's let's let our audience know.
Why is it different at BYU versus the University of Utah.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Oh good point. Yeah, because it's a it's not a
state entity. Bay you is not a state entity.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And it makes no difference as to whether it would
be a school or anything.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
If it's private property, they can ban guns. Now.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
The difference is it's not a crime if you were
to somehow get one in.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I am not gun Radio.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Utah, No apologies is not suggesting that you try to
sneak one in or sneak anything in that is prohibited
at the game.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
But if you were to do that, it wouldn't be
a crime.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Now, now if you remain, if they found out and
you were there and you didn't leave, now you're trespassing
the bam, you know, so they can kick you out
for any reason. So anyway, it's it's interesting now at
you know, we have the last No King's Rally, which
(11:58):
was what June or July something like that. Police have
still not identified the actual shooter who fired three shots.
The actually the only person who fired shots was well
you've got the shooter who seemingly acting without permission from
(12:19):
event organizers as a somebody described him as a peacekeeper
without permission to carry a firearm, let alone shoot anyone,
shoots a person who was carrying a firearm otherwise lawfully
not pointing it at anyone, and shoots into a crowd
of ten thousand people, killing, killing individ who had nothing
(12:45):
to do a few blocks away, and they have not
identified that person. Now, civil liability is I don't know
if this guy has any money, but if he does,
civil liability is going to clean him out like Roto Router.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Well, let me answer the next ten years. Who won't
have any money?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Let me ask you this. I mean, would it be
prudent or wise to go volunteer to do armed security
at event that they wouldn't back you up or support you? Well, no,
I'm just I'm.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I've been in that industry for a long time and
absolutely not, you know, at least I train I don't.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
But I mean I understand, of course not because the
liability is huge.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, and I appreciate the the willingness to volunteer to
actives of them and all that, But I mean, you're
you're doing something there, and are they Because I'm assuming
that and I can't remember what was the name of
the organization that did the last No King.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Five O five O five one five something.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
They they they had these guys as security, but they
did not well they call them were armed security.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Well they're they're playing fast and loose with this.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I mean, obviously, I think if I was the organizers
and I had hired them, and I, you know, kind
of with a blind you know, kind of averted my
gaze when I found out they were carrying guns, I
certainly wouldn't want to say that we we certainly hired them,
and we knew they were carrying guns, and let alone,
you know, whether we told them to engage or not,
(14:29):
they're carrying a gun. And because you know that group
or the the the entities involved in that group would
would be the ones that you would sue civilly And
I don't know, I get into that. I think Salt
Lake City, did they permit them? Did they ask questions?
I've got a lot of I have a lot of
(14:50):
questions in addition to.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Who was the guy that shot and.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Injured the otherwise lawful rifle carrier and killed another individual
so blocks away?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So because I'm thinking I'm thinking that guy wasn't licensed
for Utah.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Well, I mean, these are questions I want to know. Yeah,
you know, I do.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
There is a Dappel board meeting coming up on Wednesday
or Thursday, and it's probably an inappropriate question and dopple
we'd have to Gramma that. But anyway, so let's talk
about the guy with the rifle. I want to say Arturo. Yeah,
and so he was in jail for six days and
(15:36):
they originally, I think charged him. I don't know if
it was the DA or whatever, but they arrested him
on murder charges even though he didn't pull the trigger.
But if you look at the murder statute his actions,
you know, they they said his actions led to.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
The death of another person.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Now, I was thinking, well about the only thing, and
I said to this to the news that the only
thing they could probably charge prosecute him for would be
disorderly conduct. And so if you look at the disorderly
conduct statute, but I've later found out that no, they
aren't going to do that. Let me find my disorderly
conduct here. It is okay, and we we we.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Worked with.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
State legislature many years ago to modify the Disorderly Conduct Statute,
which is found seventy six nine one oh two.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I think we renumbered that one too, anyway, seventy six
and nine under the section four it.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And we did this because there were certain state or
certain cities that for one reason or another just had
an anti gun stance to them, and they were charging
people for the mere open carrying of a firearm with
disorderly conduct. And we know that that open carriers perfectly legal,
(16:56):
and so we wrote in the mere carrying or possession
of the holstered or encased firearm that one went the rounds.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Boy.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
We did not like to put the holster dur in case,
but anyway, a holster dur in case firearm, whether visible
or concealed, without additional behavior or circumstances like without additional
without behavior that is threatening that would cause a reasonable
person to believe the holster during case firearm was carried
with criminal intent, and that does not constitute a violation
(17:28):
of the disorderly conduct section. We also had to put
in there for law enforcement that it does not limit
or prohibit a law enforcement officer from approaching or engaging
in an otherwise consensual or voluntary interaction. But that you
don't have to stay there, you can just walk away.
But apparently the problem with that the d I haven't
(17:54):
talked to the DA, but apparently the problem with their
office is they cannot They don't think they've got the
elements of intent. They don't believe that he that they
could prove that he intended to cause a problem.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So what do you think, Bill.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Well, I mean, at at at organizations like these No
King things, they seem to have a lot.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Of problems.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Against their own if you know what I mean, Okay,
they have problems against their own party.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I mean, We've been a lot of pro gun rallies.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I've been to a lot of pro gun rallies where
people are carrying a lot of guns and nobody's been shot.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, we've been in the Capitol with guns and rifles
and no one's been shot. No one's been shot. But
I guess the big thing is on this one is well,
it's it's hard for me, No one's no one's taking
ownership of or responsibility for what has happened. Obviously the
(18:58):
organization is not there trying to get away.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
As far as they left hand they took off, hit
them in the butt on the way.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Out exactly, and so and I see why there needs
to be some accountability on something like this. So give
us some information or tell us something to put us
at ease in the In the meantime, it's I think
it's going to continue happening, and you're going to see
it happen again. Unfortunately. Anyway, we got a lot more
(19:25):
cover here on gun Radio Utah. Stay tuned. We're gonna
talk about some maybe a hunting season and maybe some
new firearms next segment.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
This is crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You can't certainly use this for hunting, but some of.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
These bullets as you so, I have an incendiary device
on the tip of it, which is a heat seeking device.
So you don't shoot deer with a bullet that size.
If you do, you could cook it at the same time.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So that was welcome back to gun Radio Utah. And
I think that's a good intro for Bill what he's
going to be talking about there. Did you use any
heat seeking incendiary device bullets? And uh it did your
friend in taking that out?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
No, actually no, we did not. We kept those in
our pockets just to keep our hands.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
All right, would you okay?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Just in case though, just in case.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Because you know, we need we need stuff like this
for the the new super animals, you know, like the
electric eels and the flying squirrels and stuff like that.
These Uh, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta fight fire
with fire, Bill tell us, tell us about this hunt.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Though, yees. So the hunt was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
It was.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
It was a great I went down Monday night and
Tuesday and Wednesday. We're having a little bit of hard
time finding the elk. We'd find them here and there
in little small pockets in that. But that's when the
weather start changing Wednesday afternoon and uh started laying down
some really good snow, which I like. And the reason
(20:54):
why I like to hunt in the snow is it
just gives you better visibility of the animals. You've got
fresh tracks you can follow, and so if I see
tracks in the snow, especially after new snow, I know
there's something alive at the end of the rainbow on
that one.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Also, Also, if you shoot the deer on the top
of a hill, you can ride them like a toboggan
all the way down.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I've seen that. Unfortunately, I know what you're talking about.
But yeah, so Thursday morning was well, Thursday it was
the last day of the hunt. We got some really
good snow that came down about midnight ended about three
in the morning. So when we got out, we ran
into some tracks that were really fresh and there's probably
(21:40):
close to twenty head of elk in this group, and
so we decided, a buddy of mine, decide we'll push
around these trees and see what we can get out.
And as we did so, we actually pushed out some
elk and a big bowl for my buddy to shoot.
It was a two hundred and forty yard shot. Now,
(22:01):
I you know, we buy all these new guns and
blah blah blah, blah blah. He's a traditionalist old Remington
model seven hundred and thirty six one hundred and sixty
four grain bullet with the old red Field scope on it,
you know, and drops it in one shot at two
hundred and forty yards. Incredible shot, did very well, beautiful
(22:23):
six by six bowl elk and the better the best
part of it was only thirty yards from the road.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Oh yeah, I saw the picture.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I saw the picture of that, and yeah, you could
literally see your see see the whole thing right there.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
But he was a crisis mode, you know, coming into
Thursday morning, you know, and you know, this is the
last day of his hunt. And you know, that was
one of the reasons I wanted to go down there.
I love to be involved, just to help, you know,
in some form of the process. But it was great,
and he was just so excited, so so relieved in
(23:03):
a way to have that.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
So, so is that gonna will that fill up an
entire freezer?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Then that's yeah, his Yeah, he's got a freezer problem
right now. He's probably gonna have to go buy another one.
So yeah, okay, all.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Right, so that that's uh, that's excellent.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So it so he used that an old bolt action
with a with an like when you said redfield scope,
I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Then yeah, so it was it was all and and
and you know, so you know, we we I think
we overdo it. We over concentrate on what we need
for our guns. But you know, the standard, proven, true
hardened gun. I mean, remember when I had my TAG
just a few years ago. I go out and buy
(23:50):
me a brand new six five PRC. I put a
yea three thousand dollars Leopold scope on it, and I'm like, yeah,
I'm dialed into eleven hundred yard. I am good, nine
hundred yards. I can hit this thing and the furthest
shot I had was thirty yards thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah, I do remember, I do remember.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
We went we went out cutting, and in fact, you
thought your rifle was so good and so capable that
you didn't even bring it one time when we went hunt.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Let's not go down that road.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
We were halfway, we were a mile and a half
two miles out up the hill and I looked at you, Bill,
and I said, hey, Bill, Yeah, where's your rifle.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's when you're so focused on the hunt that you
do that happens.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
You had everything else, though, I gotta tell you had
everything else. Hey, talking about guns. So, Rock Island Armory
Arms Corps r A. They have a fantastic, really big facility,
super nice, state of the art CNC machines.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They're making nineteen elevens there.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
They're making the shotgun and and I think they're making
the ree A five point zero. But we're going to
be getting a couple of these next day or so,
I'm thinking. I'm hoping. Anyway, But if you get a set,
go to Rock Island Armory dot com and check out
the VPR fourteen.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Now I don't know what VPR stands for.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I know fourteen stands for fourteen inch, and I'm gonna
say this, it's.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
A gun that shoots shotgun shells. And most people would say, well,
that's a shotgun.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, technically it's not a shotgun because it doesn't have
a stock. A shotgun or and or a rifle are
considered long guns with the ATF and the and the code.
But this is a gun, a firearm, and it's twenty
six inches overall fourteen inch barrel, which means it falls
(25:50):
at this very tiny little window in between a shotgun
and a short railed rifle and so on and so forth,
or a short biled shotgun really or an AOD and
so Mosburg has one.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Of these things? Who else has this?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Uh uh?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I'm trying to think Smith and Wesson. I think made
a didn't.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
I know?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Mosburg has the Shockwave and they have a semiato, but
Rock Island has a pump action fourteen inch one. But
they now make this semiata, so we're going to try
it out. It's got uh, it's got sites, it's got
rails on the top, on the bottom end, on the
sides and the controls are really neat and this is
(26:33):
what and it doesn't have that weird grip, you know,
the what do they call it, the bird's head grip
or the raptor grip or something like that. And they
did that to extend it out to get it to
the right length, because otherwise it would be wrong overall length.
This thing has like a regular like an AR grip.
In fact, the controls to drop the magazine, by the way,
(26:56):
it'll hold nine. In fact, I think Rock Island and
even has nineteen round twelve gage bags for this thing,
so you can drop the magazine out just like on
an AR. You can hit the safety on off and
it's in fact, the controls are a lot like an
AR on this thing. So can't wait to try it.
(27:18):
I'm gonna put I'm gonna put probably a red dot,
but I want to put a laser on the thing too,
because a lot of the shooting when we try this thing,
a lot of the shooting is going to be kind
of from the hip, if you know what I mean, Bill,
because you don't want to be holding this thing up
like you know. Oh, also, and I researched this and
it and somebody asked me, can you put a forward
(27:38):
vertical grip on the on the forearm, you know, down
you know, And yeah you can because it's not a pistol.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
You can put a forward grip on this thing. You
don't have to to, you.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Know, you know, kind of like what we do they
on the pistol ars that you put a brace on
and it's it's it's still a pistol.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
It's not a rifle.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And or then you put a forward grip on your pistol,
but it's not a forward grip. It's that little that
little triangular thing, what do you call it? The forty
five degree angle one, it's your forward grip. Yeah, it's
not a vertical grip. It's this this little holder here.
And I mean the same thing with the FRTs and
(28:23):
the and the short Reld shotguns and short Reld rifles
that are pistols and that it's kind of like remember
when you were kids in the back seat and your
brother or sister was was bugging you, and you'd you'd
tell mom or dad, hey, they're they're they're touching me.
And then they would say, I'm not touching you. I'm
not touching you, and you just get your finger right
up there next to him.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
That's kind of like what we're doing with the ATF
right now.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I'm not touching you, so it's just a thought.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
It's just a thought anyway. So we're going to be
trying those out. Also excited to try out the Riha.
It's it's called a real five point zero and I
messed around with it at the the NRA Show and
I know we're running out of time, bom I messed
around with it the NRA Show last time and.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
It was it's a really cool trigger.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
So anyway, when we come back on Gun Radio Utah,
I want to talk about John watson recent article and
we'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Let me tell you about.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Sportsman's The gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse. The gunsmith at Sportsman's
Warehouse can take care of whatever you need. If you
need an I've read if your pistol does not have
a cutout for a red dot and you want to
put a red dot on that glock or on that
sig or whatever, you can take it there. They can
actually do the cutout for you and you can run
(29:42):
a red dot just like all your friends do, or
whatever you need to have to happen to that gun.
You can take your gun down to sixteen thirty South
fifty seventy West in Salt Lake City. You can give
them a call at a one three zero four eighty seventy,
or you can take that gun. Do you want Sarah
coated or whatever done to dent into any of the
(30:05):
over one hundred and forty six Sportsman's Warehouse locations.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
They will get it to the gunsmith.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Bill. What have you got for some communication? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
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Speaker 1 (31:03):
It was pretty cool because you were in one ship
and I was like beaver area and we were talking
to each other like you were in the seat next
to me.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
So it was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Anyway, Hey, the FBI.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Okay, so you got to check out John Watt's uh
most recent article. And when when I say an article,
it means that he has done a whole bunch of research.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Research that he documents and and uh and and checks
on all that kind of stuff. But it's what is it,
Real Clear Investigations r c I. So if you go
or if you just go to crime Research dot org, uh,
you can find that while you're there, Hey, drop him
a dime something like that.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
It hit the donate button. But it's really interesting because
he has.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
This this article called Unaccountable, the FBI's strange refusal to
fix key crime stats. Why is that important? Well, I'll
tell you why it's important because lawmakers, courts, legislators, anti
(32:13):
gun groups, you know and not including but also you know,
other government agencies use the data from the FBI to
enact policies to do this kind of stuff. And if
you don't have good information, then the product that you
(32:35):
produce based on.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
That bad information is bad, is tainted.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
To give you an idea.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So what we're talking about here, specifically in this case
is how many active shootings did they have within a
certain time period, and with it, you know, and keeping
the metrics the same for or more people within you know,
in one incident that were shot or killed or something
like that, whatever the FBI's data is on that, and
then we want to find out in those number of cases,
(33:05):
how many of them were thwarted stopped by an armed citizen. Okay,
so the FBI has the has collected data, and you
know how the FBI collects data though on a lot
of these it's not some magical thing because a lot
of police departments don't actually report it as an active
(33:26):
shooting or multiple victim shooting or something like that, and
so there's there isn't a consistent way to glean it.
So what they do is they actually hire, from what
I've seen in some cases, university researchers that don't technically
I mean, they're on contract with with the ATF and
the FBI, and they will glean these things from media
(33:50):
reports and other things. And in addition to using whatever
data they can from the police departments and sheriff department
law enforcement facilities. Or if they have like a state clearinghouse,
kind of like Utah does with BCI. Anyway, so to
give you an idea of the disparity, now, John Lott
and his group and group of researchers basically do the
(34:12):
same thing, but they're they I think they just do
it better. And to give you an idea, the FBI
came out with from twenty let's see, they had what
was it, from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four,
the FBI reported that there were only three incidences of
(34:34):
armed as civilians stopping active shooters in the in the
in the number. I can't remember the number. I'm just
looking on here right now. Anyway, John Watt's Crime Prevention
Research Center documented seventy eight cases over the same period.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
And when we say documented.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
He actually has each and every case that it met
the it met them multiple victim shootings, the metric that
the FBI uses and has the data to back up
that there were seventy eight such cases.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Not just three. And so he took this, he took
it to.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
The FBI and they went ho hum. Then he took
it to the actual university. I want to say it
was in Texas, but I could be wrong.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Actually took it to the university to the researchers, and
they they scoured it and scoured it. I mean, there's
a huge discrepancy between three and seventy eight, and they
were They knocked out two of John Lott's things but
kept the other seventy six, and they reported the findings
of the FBI.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
The FBI still said, ho hum, we're not going to
change it.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, So why is that important for our audience to
know this?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Clark?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I mean, well, like I said, because legislators, we get
we get we get hit with this stuff in committee. Yeah, like, oh, well,
you know, armed armed civilian, we don't need concealed carry,
we don't need permitless carry. We don't need more people
carrying guns because they aren't doing anything.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
They aren't helping, you know, stop crime.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
They aren't. There's never one around when you need it.
When in reality, it's about fourteen to sixteen percent of
the time that these active shootings have stopped. Now in addition, right,
this doesn't even count the number of times a shooting
has stopped from the very beginning and not one shot
was fired because the armed citizens stopped it in the
(36:24):
first place. So those don't even get counted at all.
Yet they're even.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Better, right, right, right, And that's why it's so critical
to have this information for our audience, just so you
know what the facts are. Well, check them out and
Clark have a great time down there in Cedar City
were we have a great time up here by you.
By what are your predictions. I'm gonna say by nine.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I might say by seven.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Okay, see you next week. Everyone,
Director of Utah Shooting Sports Council. Uh, Bill, we are,
we're separated here. You're in Salt Lake City. You just
I guess you could just got back from the no
Kings thing, and and and thank goodness you did a
good job, because apparently we still don't have any kings.
But anyway, yeah, I am the roving correspondent down in
(00:21):
Cedar City right now, and so if if our internet goes,
I'll switch back and forth to some to our alternate
means of communication, the tin can with string. So, uh Bill,
we're gonna talk a little bit. We're going to talk
in an an slary way about the no Kings thing.
We're going to talk about other public gatherings. I hear
(00:43):
there's another public gathering down in south in Utah County.
Uh this evening, is that right?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah? I think you Yeah, six o'clock, I think spread
all over throughout YouTube.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Okay, So we're gonna we're gonna be talking about public
gatherings and and to the degree to which can they
ban firearms and should they ban guns and so on?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Of course the answer is no.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Anyway, we're gonna we're gonna definitely talk about that, you know,
I'm down here. Actually I've got to do some training.
So I've got some fantastic, fantastic client and their group
of officers are I'm training them tomorrow at the I
can't remember the range, but it's Cedar City. It's at
the Cedar City Range way east of here.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Is it Iron count What county?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Is it? Iron County? Iron County? Iron County Range?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Really a nice range, So we'll be out there and
it promises to be some good weather as opposed to
the last time we did thirty people where we had
more rain. Well, I think it was the second most
rain they've ever had and a clerk just happened to
be outside.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
All the time in it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We'll talk about that, maybe some training tips and what
can you expect Bill. You know, we've we've got the
two hundred dollar tax stamp that goes away for suppressors
and I believe I'm pretty sure short railed rifle shotguns
and that kind of stuff. Iow's, well aow's were five bucks,
(02:13):
but you still.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Got the registration on them.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And I want to talk about should you buy it
now and pay the two hundred dollars and what is
the advantage of doing it? Now versus waiting till after January. First,
have you heard any Well, we're going to get into that.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I've heard, I've heard a lot of different talks on that,
but my thought is the heck was given them two
hundred bucks period.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, So we're going to talk about that, especially since
we've got the state leg I have to make sure
it's we don't call it the state suppressor, the State
legislative or the Utah Legislative suppressor coming out, and it
is going to be a silencer co of course that's
Utah made.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So I'm going to be talking about that. Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So, we've been in lots of communication with Rock Island Armory.
Rock Island Armory also Arms Corps. They're kind of one
owns the other. I think armscore ooms Rock Island, Ria,
and there are the Philippines. But they have been making
guns in Perump, Nevada, and more recently not in the
(03:24):
last few years, they've been actually manufacturing some fantastic neat
guns right here in Cedar City, Utah. And I love
it that they're stamped made in Cedar City, Utah, so
as opposed to Perump.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
So we're going to talk about that. If we have time.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I do want to go over doctor John Lott's newest
article in Real Clear Investigations, and it's titled the FBI's
strange refusal to fix key crime stats. And I want
to tell you why it's why it's it's it's it's
interesting as to why they're doing this. But anyway, so Bill,
(04:08):
you were just we basically passed each other on the freeway,
I think from you were down in Cedar City.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
What were you doing?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I was up on Cedar Mountain. Elk cunning with
a good family, good friend of mine drew out a
limited entry ELK tag and so we're up.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Or what does that mean? What's a limited What is
limited entry ELK tag? So a limited entry ELK tag.
We've talked about this on the show before when I
was drawn out from mine. You have to apply for
it every year, and if you don't draw out, you
get a point, and then you accumulate all these points,
and the more points you get, the more odds you
have of drawing that tag. Well, guess how many years
(04:49):
he took my friend to draw his tag? At ten years,
keep in mind mine was twenty eight years. Oh yeah,
you finally got yours after twenty eight years, so yeah,
you can you want to hit many Well, I'm gonna
say it was twenty.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Years now, okay, thirty thirty years. Yeah, Utah it sucks.
Utah's I mean their draw program sucks. I mean, he's
sixty eight years.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
To pay a bunch of money, though, couldn't you just
pay a bunch of money and go hunt on somebody's
land or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, you could pay a bunch of money or you
don't even have to pay anything. I mean, just go
poach one if you wanted.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
No, I wouldn't recommend doing that.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Bill. I know he tastes just a good gun radio Utah. No, apologies,
does not does not promote poaching, does not promote. No.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But I wish there was a better way. And they
keep coming back saying it's the best way. It's best way.
Well everyone around Utah, Montana, Idaho. Why they'll say Utah
sucks when it comes to hunting permits, and I.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
It's very expense. I've heard that it's very very expensive here.
It can be pricey, but it's actually it's not too bad.
The price isn't too bad. It's just waiting.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I mean, because what they call a limited entry tag,
they might as well just rename it to once in
a lifetime tag because you'll never draw because after you
draw that tag, you have to wait five years to.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Start, and then you're down to zero points.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Also, yeah, you're zero points.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, so you wait five years and then you're down
to start.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, So do you recommend that spouses also, you know,
do that too, And.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I would, I would, I would encourage it. And as
soon as your kids are young enough to hunt, get
them in it as quickly as possible. They have a
better chance of drawing multiple tags, you know, throughout now
and now.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But but if your spouse does this, they have to
be the one to.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Actually pull the trigger.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
They're the ones that can't just like let me borrow
your tag or something. Can't do that.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that was back in there now seventies when they
used to.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Do you didn't you didn't have a tag though, did
you this? No, this this last week, but you did
go up there.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, So I went up as a set of eyes
and a set of legs, you know, to help pull
it out if once they got it. But I think
we'll we'll talk about that here in an upcoming segment.
But because that it was actually a really great story
how we we were successful in getting his elk and
and uh, but you're lucky because you're down in Cedar
(07:28):
City right now with great weather. We did not have
great weather. We froze our we got I got rained on.
I mean, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Isn't that good? Isn't that?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I'm told that's good elk weather though.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Oh yeah, No for me, four inches six inches of
snow on the ground, I will hunt elk till my
legs fall off. I love it, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So tell you what when we when we do come back,
which will be right back, I want to get into
some of the rallies, some of the big groups, the
things that are happening and where they're talking about increased
security in that type of thing and what can you do?
What are the laws and that kind of thing. When
we get into it, and we'll be right back on
(08:12):
gun Radio Utah. Stay right there, grab.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
The podcast, oh to iHeartMedia or go to your favorite
podcasts and pull up gun Radio Utah and you'll catch
all the exciting events and the things that we've covered today.
Also be in the opening day of the general season
rifle buck deer hunt. If you need more bang for
your buck, go check out flash My Brass here in
(08:37):
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Speaker 4 (08:46):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
They've got some of the best prices on ammunition and
if you ran out of ammunition on your general deer hunt,
they can cover you thirty out, six sixty five, you
name it, They've got it for you. Go check them
out at flash My Brass.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
All right, So Bill, Yeah, I think I think they
actually had a no Kings thing in Vernal and a
rally or get together. I think they used the back
booth at Denny's and were able to they I don't
think they.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Even filled up the all six chairs. But then I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I don't know how it went here in Cedar City,
but apparently they had one.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
And so, you know, I.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Was listening to.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Was that? Me? Is that coming from the hallway here? Okay? Anyway,
so I was I was listening to the news reports,
and they said that there was increased security at the
at the event at the Capitol, because they held it
at the Salt Lake. One held it just at the Capitol,
(09:52):
and I don't know what they were.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I don't know how you increase the security.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I mean, there was there was a lot of people
there and there was no way there would be enough
coverage of law enforcement to find that one person in
that group that decided to cause a problem or whatever. Anyway,
But then they also they mentioned, hey, you know at
the BYU Utah game that's being held at Lavelle Edwards
(10:17):
Stadium this evening, that there was increased security there and
that there would be bag checks and you're not supposed
to bring in bags and no weapons allowed, no firearms
even with permit holders. So can they do that, Well,
the answer is yes, at BYU they can. Now if
this were being held at Rice Cycles, no they can't.
(10:37):
You would have to have a permit because Utah law says,
you know, to be on the premises there, you have
to have a permit. Now, you could be eighteen with
a provisional permit at Rice Cycles, but at BYU it
doesn't matter. They can restrict and I'm sure they have
metal detectors there. They can restrict firearms there.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So the reason for let's let's let our audience know.
Why is it different at BYU versus the University of Utah.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Oh good point. Yeah, because it's a it's not a
state entity. Bay you is not a state entity.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And it makes no difference as to whether it would
be a school or anything.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
If it's private property, they can ban guns. Now.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
The difference is it's not a crime if you were
to somehow get one in.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I am not gun Radio.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Utah, No apologies is not suggesting that you try to
sneak one in or sneak anything in that is prohibited
at the game.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
But if you were to do that, it wouldn't be
a crime.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Now, now if you remain, if they found out and
you were there and you didn't leave, now you're trespassing
the bam, you know, so they can kick you out
for any reason. So anyway, it's it's interesting now at
you know, we have the last No King's Rally, which
(11:58):
was what June or July something like that. Police have
still not identified the actual shooter who fired three shots.
The actually the only person who fired shots was well
you've got the shooter who seemingly acting without permission from
(12:19):
event organizers as a somebody described him as a peacekeeper
without permission to carry a firearm, let alone shoot anyone,
shoots a person who was carrying a firearm otherwise lawfully
not pointing it at anyone, and shoots into a crowd
of ten thousand people, killing, killing individ who had nothing
(12:45):
to do a few blocks away, and they have not
identified that person. Now, civil liability is I don't know
if this guy has any money, but if he does,
civil liability is going to clean him out like Roto Router.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Well, let me answer the next ten years. Who won't
have any money?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Let me ask you this. I mean, would it be
prudent or wise to go volunteer to do armed security
at event that they wouldn't back you up or support you? Well, no,
I'm just I'm.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I've been in that industry for a long time and
absolutely not, you know, at least I train I don't.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
But I mean I understand, of course not because the
liability is huge.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, and I appreciate the the willingness to volunteer to
actives of them and all that, But I mean, you're
you're doing something there, and are they Because I'm assuming
that and I can't remember what was the name of
the organization that did the last No King.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Five O five O five one five something.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
They they they had these guys as security, but they
did not well they call them were armed security.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Well they're they're playing fast and loose with this.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I mean, obviously, I think if I was the organizers
and I had hired them, and I, you know, kind
of with a blind you know, kind of averted my
gaze when I found out they were carrying guns, I
certainly wouldn't want to say that we we certainly hired them,
and we knew they were carrying guns, and let alone,
you know, whether we told them to engage or not,
(14:29):
they're carrying a gun. And because you know that group
or the the the entities involved in that group would
would be the ones that you would sue civilly And
I don't know, I get into that. I think Salt
Lake City, did they permit them? Did they ask questions?
I've got a lot of I have a lot of
(14:50):
questions in addition to.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Who was the guy that shot and.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Injured the otherwise lawful rifle carrier and killed another individual
so blocks away?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So because I'm thinking I'm thinking that guy wasn't licensed
for Utah.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Well, I mean, these are questions I want to know. Yeah,
you know, I do.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
There is a Dappel board meeting coming up on Wednesday
or Thursday, and it's probably an inappropriate question and dopple
we'd have to Gramma that. But anyway, so let's talk
about the guy with the rifle. I want to say Arturo. Yeah,
and so he was in jail for six days and
(15:36):
they originally, I think charged him. I don't know if
it was the DA or whatever, but they arrested him
on murder charges even though he didn't pull the trigger.
But if you look at the murder statute his actions,
you know, they they said his actions led to.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
The death of another person.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Now, I was thinking, well about the only thing, and
I said to this to the news that the only
thing they could probably charge prosecute him for would be
disorderly conduct. And so if you look at the disorderly
conduct statute, but I've later found out that no, they
aren't going to do that. Let me find my disorderly
conduct here. It is okay, and we we we.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Worked with.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
State legislature many years ago to modify the Disorderly Conduct Statute,
which is found seventy six nine one oh two.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I think we renumbered that one too, anyway, seventy six
and nine under the section four it.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And we did this because there were certain state or
certain cities that for one reason or another just had
an anti gun stance to them, and they were charging
people for the mere open carrying of a firearm with
disorderly conduct. And we know that that open carriers perfectly legal,
(16:56):
and so we wrote in the mere carrying or possession
of the holstered or encased firearm that one went the rounds.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Boy.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
We did not like to put the holster dur in case,
but anyway, a holster dur in case firearm, whether visible
or concealed, without additional behavior or circumstances like without additional
without behavior that is threatening that would cause a reasonable
person to believe the holster during case firearm was carried
with criminal intent, and that does not constitute a violation
(17:28):
of the disorderly conduct section. We also had to put
in there for law enforcement that it does not limit
or prohibit a law enforcement officer from approaching or engaging
in an otherwise consensual or voluntary interaction. But that you
don't have to stay there, you can just walk away.
But apparently the problem with that the d I haven't
(17:54):
talked to the DA, but apparently the problem with their
office is they cannot They don't think they've got the
elements of intent. They don't believe that he that they
could prove that he intended to cause a problem.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So what do you think, Bill.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Well, I mean, at at at organizations like these No
King things, they seem to have a lot.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Of problems.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Against their own if you know what I mean, Okay,
they have problems against their own party.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I mean, We've been a lot of pro gun rallies.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I've been to a lot of pro gun rallies where
people are carrying a lot of guns and nobody's been shot.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, we've been in the Capitol with guns and rifles
and no one's been shot. No one's been shot. But
I guess the big thing is on this one is well,
it's it's hard for me, No one's no one's taking
ownership of or responsibility for what has happened. Obviously the
(18:58):
organization is not there trying to get away.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
As far as they left hand they took off, hit
them in the butt on the way.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Out exactly, and so and I see why there needs
to be some accountability on something like this. So give
us some information or tell us something to put us
at ease in the In the meantime, it's I think
it's going to continue happening, and you're going to see
it happen again. Unfortunately. Anyway, we got a lot more
(19:25):
cover here on gun Radio Utah. Stay tuned. We're gonna
talk about some maybe a hunting season and maybe some
new firearms next segment.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
This is crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You can't certainly use this for hunting, but some of.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
These bullets as you so, I have an incendiary device
on the tip of it, which is a heat seeking device.
So you don't shoot deer with a bullet that size.
If you do, you could cook it at the same time.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So that was welcome back to gun Radio Utah. And
I think that's a good intro for Bill what he's
going to be talking about there. Did you use any
heat seeking incendiary device bullets? And uh it did your
friend in taking that out?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
No, actually no, we did not. We kept those in
our pockets just to keep our hands.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
All right, would you okay?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Just in case though, just in case.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Because you know, we need we need stuff like this
for the the new super animals, you know, like the
electric eels and the flying squirrels and stuff like that.
These Uh, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta fight fire
with fire, Bill tell us, tell us about this hunt.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Though, yees. So the hunt was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
It was.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
It was a great I went down Monday night and
Tuesday and Wednesday. We're having a little bit of hard
time finding the elk. We'd find them here and there
in little small pockets in that. But that's when the
weather start changing Wednesday afternoon and uh started laying down
some really good snow, which I like. And the reason
(20:54):
why I like to hunt in the snow is it
just gives you better visibility of the animals. You've got
fresh tracks you can follow, and so if I see
tracks in the snow, especially after new snow, I know
there's something alive at the end of the rainbow on
that one.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Also, Also, if you shoot the deer on the top
of a hill, you can ride them like a toboggan
all the way down.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I've seen that. Unfortunately, I know what you're talking about.
But yeah, so Thursday morning was well, Thursday it was
the last day of the hunt. We got some really
good snow that came down about midnight ended about three
in the morning. So when we got out, we ran
into some tracks that were really fresh and there's probably
(21:40):
close to twenty head of elk in this group, and
so we decided, a buddy of mine, decide we'll push
around these trees and see what we can get out.
And as we did so, we actually pushed out some
elk and a big bowl for my buddy to shoot.
It was a two hundred and forty yard shot. Now,
(22:01):
I you know, we buy all these new guns and
blah blah blah, blah blah. He's a traditionalist old Remington
model seven hundred and thirty six one hundred and sixty
four grain bullet with the old red Field scope on it,
you know, and drops it in one shot at two
hundred and forty yards. Incredible shot, did very well, beautiful
(22:23):
six by six bowl elk and the better the best
part of it was only thirty yards from the road.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Oh yeah, I saw the picture.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I saw the picture of that, and yeah, you could
literally see your see see the whole thing right there.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
But he was a crisis mode, you know, coming into
Thursday morning, you know, and you know, this is the
last day of his hunt. And you know, that was
one of the reasons I wanted to go down there.
I love to be involved, just to help, you know,
in some form of the process. But it was great,
and he was just so excited, so so relieved in
(23:03):
a way to have that.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
So, so is that gonna will that fill up an
entire freezer?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Then that's yeah, his Yeah, he's got a freezer problem
right now. He's probably gonna have to go buy another one.
So yeah, okay, all.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Right, so that that's uh, that's excellent.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So it so he used that an old bolt action
with a with an like when you said redfield scope,
I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Then yeah, so it was it was all and and
and you know, so you know, we we I think
we overdo it. We over concentrate on what we need
for our guns. But you know, the standard, proven, true
hardened gun. I mean, remember when I had my TAG
just a few years ago. I go out and buy
(23:50):
me a brand new six five PRC. I put a
yea three thousand dollars Leopold scope on it, and I'm like, yeah,
I'm dialed into eleven hundred yard. I am good, nine
hundred yards. I can hit this thing and the furthest
shot I had was thirty yards thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah, I do remember, I do remember.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
We went we went out cutting, and in fact, you
thought your rifle was so good and so capable that
you didn't even bring it one time when we went hunt.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Let's not go down that road.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
We were halfway, we were a mile and a half
two miles out up the hill and I looked at you, Bill,
and I said, hey, Bill, Yeah, where's your rifle.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's when you're so focused on the hunt that you
do that happens.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
You had everything else, though, I gotta tell you had
everything else. Hey, talking about guns. So, Rock Island Armory
Arms Corps r A. They have a fantastic, really big facility,
super nice, state of the art CNC machines.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They're making nineteen elevens there.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
They're making the shotgun and and I think they're making
the ree A five point zero. But we're going to
be getting a couple of these next day or so,
I'm thinking. I'm hoping. Anyway, But if you get a set,
go to Rock Island Armory dot com and check out
the VPR fourteen.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Now I don't know what VPR stands for.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I know fourteen stands for fourteen inch, and I'm gonna
say this, it's.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
A gun that shoots shotgun shells. And most people would say, well,
that's a shotgun.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, technically it's not a shotgun because it doesn't have
a stock. A shotgun or and or a rifle are
considered long guns with the ATF and the and the code.
But this is a gun, a firearm, and it's twenty
six inches overall fourteen inch barrel, which means it falls
(25:50):
at this very tiny little window in between a shotgun
and a short railed rifle and so on and so forth,
or a short biled shotgun really or an AOD and
so Mosburg has one.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Of these things? Who else has this?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Uh uh?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I'm trying to think Smith and Wesson. I think made
a didn't.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
I know?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Mosburg has the Shockwave and they have a semiato, but
Rock Island has a pump action fourteen inch one. But
they now make this semiata, so we're going to try
it out. It's got uh, it's got sites, it's got
rails on the top, on the bottom end, on the
sides and the controls are really neat and this is
(26:33):
what and it doesn't have that weird grip, you know,
the what do they call it, the bird's head grip
or the raptor grip or something like that. And they
did that to extend it out to get it to
the right length, because otherwise it would be wrong overall length.
This thing has like a regular like an AR grip.
In fact, the controls to drop the magazine, by the way,
(26:56):
it'll hold nine. In fact, I think Rock Island and
even has nineteen round twelve gage bags for this thing,
so you can drop the magazine out just like on
an AR. You can hit the safety on off and
it's in fact, the controls are a lot like an
AR on this thing. So can't wait to try it.
(27:18):
I'm gonna put I'm gonna put probably a red dot,
but I want to put a laser on the thing too,
because a lot of the shooting when we try this thing,
a lot of the shooting is going to be kind
of from the hip, if you know what I mean, Bill,
because you don't want to be holding this thing up
like you know. Oh, also, and I researched this and
it and somebody asked me, can you put a forward
(27:38):
vertical grip on the on the forearm, you know, down
you know, And yeah you can because it's not a pistol.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
You can put a forward grip on this thing. You
don't have to to, you.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Know, you know, kind of like what we do they
on the pistol ars that you put a brace on
and it's it's it's still a pistol.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
It's not a rifle.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And or then you put a forward grip on your pistol,
but it's not a forward grip. It's that little that
little triangular thing, what do you call it? The forty
five degree angle one, it's your forward grip. Yeah, it's
not a vertical grip. It's this this little holder here.
And I mean the same thing with the FRTs and
(28:23):
the and the short Reld shotguns and short Reld rifles
that are pistols and that it's kind of like remember
when you were kids in the back seat and your
brother or sister was was bugging you, and you'd you'd
tell mom or dad, hey, they're they're they're touching me.
And then they would say, I'm not touching you. I'm
not touching you, and you just get your finger right
up there next to him.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
That's kind of like what we're doing with the ATF
right now.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I'm not touching you, so it's just a thought.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
It's just a thought anyway. So we're going to be
trying those out. Also excited to try out the Riha.
It's it's called a real five point zero and I
messed around with it at the the NRA Show and
I know we're running out of time, bom I messed
around with it the NRA Show last time and.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
It was it's a really cool trigger.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
So anyway, when we come back on Gun Radio Utah,
I want to talk about John watson recent article and
we'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Let me tell you about.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Sportsman's The gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse. The gunsmith at Sportsman's
Warehouse can take care of whatever you need. If you
need an I've read if your pistol does not have
a cutout for a red dot and you want to
put a red dot on that glock or on that
sig or whatever, you can take it there. They can
actually do the cutout for you and you can run
(29:42):
a red dot just like all your friends do, or
whatever you need to have to happen to that gun.
You can take your gun down to sixteen thirty South
fifty seventy West in Salt Lake City. You can give
them a call at a one three zero four eighty seventy,
or you can take that gun. Do you want Sarah
coated or whatever done to dent into any of the
(30:05):
over one hundred and forty six Sportsman's Warehouse locations.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
They will get it to the gunsmith.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Bill. What have you got for some communication? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Like to also let our customers know of our new sponsor.
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(30:37):
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(30:59):
for tah Shooting Sports Council, suretalk radio dot com.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
It was pretty cool because you were in one ship
and I was like beaver area and we were talking
to each other like you were in the seat next
to me.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
So it was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Anyway, Hey, the FBI.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Okay, so you got to check out John Watt's uh
most recent article. And when when I say an article,
it means that he has done a whole bunch of research.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Research that he documents and and uh and and checks
on all that kind of stuff. But it's what is it,
Real Clear Investigations r c I. So if you go
or if you just go to crime Research dot org, uh,
you can find that while you're there, Hey, drop him
a dime something like that.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
It hit the donate button. But it's really interesting because
he has.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
This this article called Unaccountable, the FBI's strange refusal to
fix key crime stats. Why is that important? Well, I'll
tell you why it's important because lawmakers, courts, legislators, anti
(32:13):
gun groups, you know and not including but also you know,
other government agencies use the data from the FBI to
enact policies to do this kind of stuff. And if
you don't have good information, then the product that you
(32:35):
produce based on.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
That bad information is bad, is tainted.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
To give you an idea.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So what we're talking about here, specifically in this case
is how many active shootings did they have within a
certain time period, and with it, you know, and keeping
the metrics the same for or more people within you know,
in one incident that were shot or killed or something
like that, whatever the FBI's data is on that, and
then we want to find out in those number of cases,
(33:05):
how many of them were thwarted stopped by an armed citizen. Okay,
so the FBI has the has collected data, and you
know how the FBI collects data though on a lot
of these it's not some magical thing because a lot
of police departments don't actually report it as an active
(33:26):
shooting or multiple victim shooting or something like that, and
so there's there isn't a consistent way to glean it.
So what they do is they actually hire, from what
I've seen in some cases, university researchers that don't technically
I mean, they're on contract with with the ATF and
the FBI, and they will glean these things from media
(33:50):
reports and other things. And in addition to using whatever
data they can from the police departments and sheriff department
law enforcement facilities. Or if they have like a state clearinghouse,
kind of like Utah does with BCI. Anyway, so to
give you an idea of the disparity, now, John Lott
and his group and group of researchers basically do the
(34:12):
same thing, but they're they I think they just do
it better. And to give you an idea, the FBI
came out with from twenty let's see, they had what
was it, from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four,
the FBI reported that there were only three incidences of
(34:34):
armed as civilians stopping active shooters in the in the
in the number. I can't remember the number. I'm just
looking on here right now. Anyway, John Watt's Crime Prevention
Research Center documented seventy eight cases over the same period.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
And when we say documented.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
He actually has each and every case that it met
the it met them multiple victim shootings, the metric that
the FBI uses and has the data to back up
that there were seventy eight such cases.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Not just three. And so he took this, he took
it to.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
The FBI and they went ho hum. Then he took
it to the actual university. I want to say it
was in Texas, but I could be wrong.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Actually took it to the university to the researchers, and
they they scoured it and scoured it. I mean, there's
a huge discrepancy between three and seventy eight, and they
were They knocked out two of John Lott's things but
kept the other seventy six, and they reported the findings
of the FBI.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
The FBI still said, ho hum, we're not going to
change it.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, So why is that important for our audience to
know this?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Clark?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I mean, well, like I said, because legislators, we get
we get we get hit with this stuff in committee. Yeah, like, oh, well,
you know, armed armed civilian, we don't need concealed carry,
we don't need permitless carry. We don't need more people
carrying guns because they aren't doing anything.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
They aren't helping, you know, stop crime.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
They aren't. There's never one around when you need it.
When in reality, it's about fourteen to sixteen percent of
the time that these active shootings have stopped. Now in addition, right,
this doesn't even count the number of times a shooting
has stopped from the very beginning and not one shot
was fired because the armed citizens stopped it in the
(36:24):
first place. So those don't even get counted at all.
Yet they're even.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Better, right, right, right, And that's why it's so critical
to have this information for our audience, just so you
know what the facts are. Well, check them out and
Clark have a great time down there in Cedar City
were we have a great time up here by you.
By what are your predictions. I'm gonna say by nine.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I might say by seven.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Okay, see you next week. Everyone,
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