Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Because is everything you've said hasn't been wrong correct, Clark
(00:03):
is right, Clark is correct.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
If you want correct information, Clark.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
You're tuned in.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
Yeah, right, and I and uh that's and that's all
I'm going to say about that. And so come here
to get your information. Uh so that while you're with
your in laws, love my in laws, but while you're
with your family party or something like that, that you
have the correct information.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Uh should should the topic.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Into guns, okay, and why guns are good and people
that have lawbiting people that have guns are good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And Bill, you had an interesting little video clip.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, San Francisco. Oh yes, yeah, you've got to go
check it out on Fox Snooze where just snoozews dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It's right on their front page.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It was a street preacher, street preacher, poor street preacher
doing his doing his preaching and some woman.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
He was it a man or was it a woman?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Because I had pretty big biceps. I'll let the viewers
and just go on Fox News and watch that a nice.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Gun and pointed at him as pretty amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So there's a there's a gun show today over at Southtown, right,
south Town Expo Center.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, the the in Sandy and oh and Glenn.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
But we're gonna have Glenn Partchell with Arn't Our Tactical
on talking about the long awaited Aren't Our Tactical Grand well,
the grand opening and.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
The soft opening.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
So uh, there's yeah, so anyway, but the not maybe
it's the not so grand opening. Hold on and hold on,
I'm getting Oh no, that's a silence there.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You did it? Did it make it? You didn't hear anything?
That's that's Bill Petterson.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I heard it across from me virtually literally, and uh.
And you know what I think the big news is that, Yeah,
once again we have doctor John Lott at the Crime
Prevention Research Center, the head of that, the beginner of that,
in studio, and we're gonna be talking.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We're gonna ask them a whole bunch of questions.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I've got some questions.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah really, yeah, Well, we're doing our show prep and
you're reading off these numbers to me, and I'm like, going,
how how does it all?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
See?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I've watched I've watched almost every episode of Law and Order,
including Special Victims Unit and all that kind of stuff,
and I consider myself to be an expert on crime,
and these numbers just don't add up with that. So yeah, anyway,
we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk
about national reciprocity. Good thing, bad thing. It a little
(02:48):
spoiler alert, it's a good thing, and a couple of things.
If we have time. I'm really hoping we have time.
What's happening in the state of Washington. What's happening in
the state of New Mexico. Where'd my New Mexico stuff go? Oh?
Speaker 5 (03:02):
There?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It is right there? And do you want to take
a guess? From New Mexico to Washington to Utah? Who
has the lower homicide rate?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Bill?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, you are correct, Utah. Bye, at least double in
one case and six times less?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh really six times six times?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Yeah, well well maybe not exactly. Maybe we'll call it
ten and a half times. So anyway, all right, so
that is what we've got, Bill, What do you have
for did you?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Is you gonna see some news here out of coming
out of Florida. House Bill seven fifty nine seeks to
lower the age of a firearm purchase to eighteen years
of age. And we're gonna talk a little bit about
this and why this is important, and uh, yeah, I
think this is this is a great Bill.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Okay, so I have one thing to say.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Okay, anytime you talk about letting eighteen year olds do
anything prefrontal cortex. That's what I'm obviously parroting something that
I have heard before. But apparently eighteen year olds cannot
walk into chew gum let alone carry a firearm at eighteen.
(04:16):
You need to be I think thirty eight years old
or something before your prefrontal cortex is is not so prefrontal.
I guess, I don't know. I'll shout out to Casey Jane,
who is coming into town a little late because of
the storm, but a little late, and she has in
(04:38):
her Mini Cooper two very energetic.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Australian shepherds in the Mini Cooper as she's driving.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Oh, you're gonna drop them off at the in laws or.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I don't know what she's gonna do with him anyway, Yeah,
that'd be good.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
All right.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
So you know what I'm gonna do right now, I'm
gonna talk about this gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse because you
know what, because I you can do that at any
time I want to. Is your gun busted? Is it broken?
Is it cracked? Does it have Yeah? You have some
and Is it scratched?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Do you need do you need some adjustment to it?
Do you need some customization to it? Do you just
need it? Maybe you don't know exactly what it is,
but it ain't working right. Get it over to the
gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West
in Salt Lake City and give him a call at
eight to one three zero four eighty seventy eight one
three zero four eighty seventy. They can fix your gun
(05:34):
so that you can put all the shots.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
In one hole. Probably some of that is up to you.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
But anyway, now, if you can't get it over to
the sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West in Salt Lake,
you can take it into any of the over one
hundred and forty six Sportsmen's Warehouse locations because Sportsman's Warehouse
owns the gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse. All right, Uh, and
definitely tell them that Clark sent you and Bill tried
(06:03):
to stop you.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
All right, tell you what.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
When we come back on Gun Radio, Utah, We've got
lots more to come, So stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We've got a lot to cover on the show today,
and I'm going to jump into a couple of things
here real quick. We've got Glenn with R and R
Tactical joining us from Actually, I think you're at the
gun show, aren't you, Glenn.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
I'm right here at the gun show. Yes, as we speak.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, awesome, Hey is it? That's great. I've got to
run out there for sure. I'm gonna do that after
the show today. Hey, tell us about our and our tactical.
We've got some great things coming up and things that
are happening right now, and we're glad to have you
on the show with us to get us caught up.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
Well, I'm god that I'm here. We have some fantastic
things coming up. We're getting ready to open. We're gonna
be opening this Friday, a long away, that opening is
finally going to happen. We're gonna have a lot of
celebration going on down there. We're gonna have giveaways Friday
and Saturday. They're gonna be giving away three guns and
one of the number of things festivities. Now, this is
our soft opening. We'll be doing the grand opening with
(07:06):
even more things coming up, probably in May. So we're
gonna have a lot of things going on in the
next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Awesome building, very exciting. Tell us about this new building,
this new shop. Some of the things that you guys
are going to be offering for everyone.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Well, it's thirty two thousand square feet. We're going to
be doing besides having a full line gun shop, we'll
be carrying a lot of products, so a lot of
brands and things. We're going to be an house or couting,
full line of suppressors, gunsmithing, laser engraving. We've got a
Whizzer laser graving, so if we need to cups or
mugs or trophies or guns, if you're doing an NFA,
(07:41):
you know, an spr something, you can have that engraved.
We're gonna be building custom polsters in the shop. We're
gonna be doing a lot of bills. Classes are fifteen
some blocks and maybe nineteen eleven class, a lot of
training classes. We're going to be having beginning Intermigury, beginning
intermediate and advanced classes at the gun. And we got
a simulator room where we're going to be working with
(08:03):
the electronic simulators. OH, Coffee and soda shop, T shirts, Clothbys,
who Gun Safe. They just moved to a whole bunch
of gun safes in this week. Things are really popping
ready happeny fast right now?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
That sounds awesome. I mean when you say simulator room,
I love simulator rooms.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
They're so fun.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I tell my wife I'm going to go run five
miles and all those ideas. Step into one of those
for thirty minutes and it feels like I ran five miles. Hey,
tell us a little bit more. Where can our listeners
get more information? Website hours, your days and everything like that.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Well, the days are going to be seven days a week.
We're gonna be able from nine to nine, except on Sunday.
It's going to be closing a little bit earlier on Sunday.
The website is our Tactical Design. Are our Tacticaldesign dot com.
Our phone number is eight oh one one zero eight.
They can get information there if you come by the show.
(09:03):
We have a keyr code that you could scan and
you could put in for a grind, for a free
range membership, a lot of things like that. We're gonna
be doing a lot of rentals. I'll be working on
the gun range itself, which is six lanes of twenty
five yards, six lanes of fifty yards. We do a
lot of machine gun rentals, and we're going to have
a lot of other things. So if you want to
try out the newest sig or blocker winners come out,
(09:23):
we'll batable come and trying before you buy him. Kind
of a thing. A lot of things to be going on.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Very good. We're listening to Glenn. He's with our and
our tactical.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Glenn, thank you so much for getting us update being
on gun Radio Utah. Have a great rest of your
day and we'll see you in a little bit, so
thank you.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Look forward to seeing you down there.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Thanks Glenn.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Okay, so, Bill, it sounded kind of like there was
chipmunks on his phone at the at the very time
that we're but that's fine.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
We got it all. We got all. Aren't our tactic designed?
All right?
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So doctor John Lott, welcome back to gun Radio Utah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And I've got a question for you.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
So, like I said, I'm pretty much an expert on
all things because I've watched Law and Order a lot
of Law and Order and true crime stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Well, then you know, there's nothing I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I know there is nothing. There is absolutely nothing.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I can leave now.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
No, Actually, I'm sure we might have some other answerary
question for you. But how is it that, Well, you
tell me, cops stop bad guys, they stop active shooters,
they do everything. And permit holders, well, we really just
don't really ever have occasion to engage or do anything.
(10:44):
We shoot ourselves, we shoot other innocent people.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's just a mess.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's what I That's.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
What I have learned from the from the media. Do
you have some other information from some research that you
have done.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
You know, I've learned never to quit rush and the
police shows that they have on the different channels that
are there, they always seem to get it right.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Thanks for having me here. It's great to be back.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
Look, one of the reasons why we decided to look
at this was just to see how accurate or inaccurate
they betray it portray it. Over the last couple of
years since the Brewin decision, there's been a lot of
examples on these TV police shows about concealed carry permit holders.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think it's kind of.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
You know, the gun control groups and connection with the
media to kind of push back on concealed carry after
the Supreme Court decision making it easier for people to carry.
And so what we looked at was the active shooting reports.
The FBI each year puts out these active shooting reports,
(11:54):
and in the ten years from twenty fourteen to twenty
twenty three, there were three hundred and fifty of these cases.
So you have instances where an active shooting is where
a gun's firing in public, not part of some other
type of crime like a robbery or a gang fight
over drug turf, anything from one person being shot at
(12:16):
and missed all the way up to a mass public shooting.
And I was surprised by some of the stuff. What
you find, for example, is that concealed carried permit holders
actually stop these attacks at a higher rate.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Than police do.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
Concealed carried permit holders stopped the most fifty two percent
of these attacks. Police stopped about forty five percent of them.
And I think part of what's going on there is
that when you're talking about somebody in uniform, they have
a real tactical disadvantage in stopping these attacks because you
(12:57):
can have you know, imagine that you're one of these
murderers that's there. If you're thinking about doing the attack
and you see a police officer there, you may wait
till the police officer leaves the area, or you may
move on to another target yourself, or if you're going
to insist on attacking in that one place, why the
officers there?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Who are you going to go after first?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And so whereas with the concealed care permit holder, they
can't identify those individuals beforehand, and so you know, the
likelihood that a permit holder might be there compared to
a police officer to stop it is higher. But it
also helps explain some other things. The rate that police
officers are killed or wounded is much higher than it
(13:43):
is for concealed care permit holders. So not only is
there a smaller number of these cases where police stop them,
but twenty seven times police officers are killed by these attackers.
Only twice are they killed by are the civilian.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Permit holders killed?
Speaker 6 (14:03):
You know, on a per case rate, that's the difference
of almost seven times. And the rate that they're wounded
isn't quite as dramatically different, but it's still about seventeen
percent higher for police officers than it is for civilians. So, look,
you mentioned before about the importance of police. Anybody who's
(14:24):
read my academic work knows that I think police are
extremely important. I think police are the single most important
factor for reducing crime. But I think the police themselves
acknowledge that they have a very difficult job.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
You know. They know that they.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Almost always arrive on the crime scene after the crimes occurred,
and that raises questions about what people should be able
to do.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
But the fact that they're.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
In uniform makes them targets, makes their job, you know,
maybe comforting to you and I to know that there's
an officer there and we can see them in uniform,
particularly for doing things like stopping these mass shootings.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
They have a very difficult job.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Okay, So I've got a question for you now, just
with all the well we'll see, so with all the training,
because that's the other thing that we get.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Police are trained to handle this stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
They're trained to shoot the bad guys and not shoot
the good guys and so on and so forth, and
we're not. We're basically just running a mock the regular
permit holders. How of those active shooter instances from twenty
fourteen to twenty twenty three, how many non combatants? How
many how many people did permit holders shoot that shouldn't
(15:39):
have been shot versus police shooting people that shouldn't have
been shot.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Right. No, there's a difference there, I mean both in
both cases it's low. It's a low rate.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
But obviously if you watch the TV police shows, you
think that that's a likely outcome for the permit holders.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
There's only one case of the one hundred and.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Eighty cases that civilian stopped that a bystander was accidentally
wounded by the permit holder. By contrast, for police, there
were four people that they killed. Two of them, in fact,
were other police officers, kind of death by.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Fred fire that was there. And uh so you know,
part of what I think goes on is that.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
A number of these cases where civilians stopped these attacks,
they don't even necessarily fire the gun. Simply having somebody
pointing a gun at these attackers is often enough to
stop it. But I think generally permit holders tend to
be more reticent to go and fire their gun than
police are.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Okay, so I've got a question.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
So you you were able to collect all this data
and then you and you get it all, is where
do you get the data from to look at all
these shootings in that well?
Speaker 6 (16:56):
I mean the FBI each year puts out and they've
been doing this for a number of years now over
a decade, puts out these active shooting reports where they
have hired people God only knows how many millions of
dollars that they've spent on it to go and put
(17:18):
together a list of these active shooting cases. And so
one can go and take their data and look through it. Now,
one of the things that you and I have talked
before about is, and I worked on this when I
was at the Department of Justice, the FBI misses cases,
and the cases that they missed systematically are instances where
(17:39):
civilians have used guns permitted concealed handguns to stop these attacks.
And you know, and so we list all those cases
on our website at crimeresearch dot org. People can go
and check not only are the cases summarized there, but
then there are links to the underlying information, so people
(17:59):
can double check at themselves. And you know, you just
you collect these things and you just go through and
read the stories about them and see who shot who
and whether bystanders were shot, and you know, just the
different claims that are there. You know, did the permit
holder get in the way of the police, did they
(18:21):
have the gun taken away from them?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I know you mentioned law in order.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
I've seen cases there as well as Chicago p D
and others where the concealed carry permit holder gets in
the way of the police and prevents them from doing
their job. You know, it's interesting I couldn't find one
single case of something like that happening. You know, it's
so much of the gun control debate is about things
(18:48):
that might possibly go wrong. Well, you know, this is
an example where we don't need a guess about things.
You can actually go back and look and and in fact,
you find that permit holders do extremely well in these
types of circumstances.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
John, stay on with us, don't leave. I think you
have to have a code to get out anyway, So
hang tight. And because we've got I've got a lot
more questions for you, including the accuracy of the FBI
and that type of thing. And so we're going to
talk more about that with doctor John Locke. Crimeresearch dot org.
(19:27):
Crime Research dot Org. Go there, hit the donate button.
You'll you'll feel better about yourself when we get back
on Gun Radio Utah. Stay tuned for Flashing Brass. Yeah
was that a segue?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Hey, so our friends have flash my brass are out
Southtown Expo. I can't call it Southtown Expo. It's the
Mountain America Expo. They're in Sandy, just on State Street,
and boy, go stop by and say hi to them.
They got nine millimeter brand new Fiochi Winchester PMC thousand
rounds for two twenty nine. A thousand, yep, A thousands
(20:08):
for your pups.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yep. How long would that last you? One minute?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
About them? Roughly a minute? Yeah, depending on which one
it was in.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I'm gonna go stop by after the show and pick
up a box because I took the kids out shooting
this week and they shot quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So yeah, good times.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
All right, we have we've kept doctor John Lot with
Crime Research Crime Prevention.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
You need the code?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Do you need the code to get out? So we've
just denied you the code. And since you're still here,
thank you. Uh And like I said before, go to
crimeresearch dot org. That has I mean, there's a million
articles on there. Maybe not literally, but there's a lot
of articles and you can search through them and you
can find a topic. And what you're going to find
(20:57):
is look correct me if I'm wrong, peer viewed articles
or at the very least articles that have footnotes on
them that you can that are backing up the evidence.
Speaking of backing up the evidence, the FBI gets has
a lot of data and then they publish results and
(21:18):
things like that. What so, we've talked about the questions
they're not asking of the data. But John, what if
they they all make mistakes? Everybody makes mistakes. I have
made a mistake before.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
No, yeah, I have the hell you say.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
But.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
You have found many of these with your with your
analysis of their data, and you've you've mentioned it to
them and you've pointed out exactly have they corrected it?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
No, that's the problem.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
I mean, it's hard to believe that they could make
as many mistakes as one finds on these stuff. But
even you know, as you say, it's one thing to
make a mistake, it's another thing to have somebody pointed
out to you, even another thing for them to even acknowledge,
as they have in the past, that yeah, we made
(22:12):
a mistake, but they never fixed them afterwards. And unfortunately
that's I mean, that's very disappointing. But I think it
goes to evidence that there's kind of bad motives on
these things.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Well, look at who's relying on this information. Decision makers,
legislators both state and local, and our federal art or
US House and Senate are relying on this data. They
quote the data and they pass laws based on this
data that is sometimes wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So it affects elections too.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
I mean, just this last year, for a whole year,
we had headlines in news articles saying things like people
think crime is falling, but people mistakenly think that it's increasing.
That was based on the twenty twenty two crime data
from the FBI that came out in October twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
When they put in the data for twenty twenty three.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
This past September, they very quietly and secretly updated the
data for twenty twenty two went from originally showing a
drop to an increase, but no mention of that in
their press release that they had made the change. They
had one footnote, a one sentence footnote buried in the
(23:36):
report itself that all it said was we've updated the
data for twenty twenty two. No mention about the change
from a drop to an increase, no explanation for why
they why they had made the change, or what had
been involved.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
With the change.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
And you know, even when it finally became public because
you know, I discovered it. You had a situation where
and media would reach out to the FBI. The FBI
wouldn't give people a clear answer, would just say we
stand by our data that's there without you know, without
(24:14):
explaining anything, or really even because I know before the election,
I believe they just didn't want to have an explicit
statement out there saying, yeah, the data that we told
you before had shown a drop and crime now shows
an increase in violent crime that would have hurt the
Democrats and been against.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
The narrative that was there. And so you know that.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
So it's not just the types of things that you're
talking about, but it affects elections.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
That was huge, And now you bring it up.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I remember that the previous presidential administration touted their Bipartisan
Crime Reduction Act whatever it was, bipartisan yet right anyway,
and saying that crime had gone down, and they ran
on that. You're you're absolute right. Okay, So now I've
got I'm going to twitch gears a little bit. Permitless
carry or no, no, not permitless carry, National reciprocity for
(25:09):
concealed carry permits good idea, bad idea?
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Well, I mean, if you think people being able to
carry guns for protection makes people safer, you know, you
would think that it's a good idea.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
You know.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
The interesting thing is, for decades they tried to pass
a law to allow police who had ten years of
experience to be able to go and carry when they
traveled across state lines, and Democrats regularly filibustered it. Ted Kennedy,
Senator from Massachusetts, kind of led the filibusters. Only after
(25:48):
nine to eleven that they were actually able to finally
break the filibuster that the Democrats had and get that passed.
You know, you have the same thing happening now with reciprocity.
You know, right now, if you have a driver's license,
you can travel from Utah to Maine or Florida. You know,
(26:10):
you have to obey the different traffic rules. You know,
some states allow you to turn right on red and
others don't allow you to turn right on red.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
And you have to know the different rules that are there.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
And you know, the question is can we have it
so that concealed carries the same.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I mean, you have people who travel.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
Women may be traveling by herself across the country and
she has to drive through states like Illinois or California
or New York. You know, trying to get from Maine
down to Utah, she's going to have to drive.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Through New York and maybe also Illinois.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
And you know, if she if her car breaks down
on the side of the road, she may wish that
she's able to go and protect herself. Or if you're
a truck drive and you're carrying valuable cargo, people try
to steal trucks.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So going through a lot of states, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Is valuable.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
And uh, you know, will you have to be disarmed
if you have to travel through certain states that are there?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
So uh you know.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
So there's been a push to make it so that
concealed care permits are going to be recognized as you travel,
just as just as driver's licenses are.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Okay, but you brought up a good point, that one
that went one. You had one one salient point in
that entire thing. And but you brought up and we've
only got like less than a minute to talk about this,
and so we're going to bring it over before we
let you out.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Is that laws are different.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I mean Utah is Hey, we're the most permissive, and
so if you go to any other state you're going
to have more restrictive How are they going to know
what the laws are in these more restrictive states, And
won't that just lead to a free for all on
violating gun laws and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Well, we already have that type of situation in most states.
I mean, if you have a concealed care permit in Utah,
you're allowed to you have reciprocity with thirty six other states.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
That all the states that are there you have different rules.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
In fact, it's very difficult to find cases where concealed
care permit holder in Utah when they travel run into.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Problems in other states. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
So okay, so we just answered that one. But bam,
we've been doing it for years and it hasn't happened.
All Right, when we come back on Gun Radio Utah,
we have lots more.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
To come, So stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Welcome back to Gun Radio Utah, Clark and what to
do there. Hey, some big dates that are coming up.
Just make sure you mark your calendars. We've got the
big AIM application period. So it's going to start on
March twentieth. I think it starts at eight morning, So
make sure you get that taken care of and then
also following week, March twenty seventh is a big day
(29:08):
for US Clark.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Governor. Oh, yes, so he has.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
We've been doing so the governors has up until then
to sign or goes into law or did he do
it twenty days after the session and and that was
last Friday at midnight.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
In regards to gun issues, we don't see anything that
he would go against.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
We had some.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Really heard anything. Yes, Yeah, he has been calling me.
I haven't been answering the phone.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's good. Yeah, maybe I've.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Been busy, Okay, okay, And he has been calling me,
you know, seemingly excited call after callings.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I just don't answer it.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
So you got some stuff there on New Mexico, New Mexico,
not all Mexico, new Nuevo Mexico.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
So they've got a Senate bill. So there's session and
is still in session their legislative whatever. So they've got
SB two seventy nine. It's a Senate bill, and what
it does is it's going to ban the possession, the sale,
the transfer, the looking at the ordering, everything of gas
(30:22):
operated firearms that use a gas operated cycling system, hence
also known as semi automatic type firearms in fact, it's
called the Gas Operated Semi Automatic Firearms Exclusion Act.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
That does that say GOSF.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Boy, we could have some fun with that name.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
So anyway, so I mean that that includes that we're
talking about the old Mini forts. Even during the assault
weapons ban, they never looked at like the Mini fourteen,
which sometimes you can actually get magazines that will use
both AR and many fourteen mags shoot the exact same
round at the exact same speed, and they never banned
(31:02):
those and one carbines they would ban that, And so
we're talking, well, these.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Are not gun people, clerk, and they're just not as knowledgeable.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Really is that?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I think, Hey, there's a great bill out of Florida,
those House Bills seven fifty nine they've got. It's going
to actually lower the minimum firearm firearm purchase age back
to eighteen. Now, they did have this already in place
back before Parkland.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Eighteen years old.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, but eighteen, but that's crazy talk, That is crazy.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
We're we're gonna let an eighteen year next thing, you know,
We're gonna let.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Them drive well and vote this. Have can kind of
buy off on this. Eighteen year olds are legal adults,
they can vote, they can serve the military, they can
sign contracts, and they can be held fully responsible under
Floridian loss. So this would allow them to have their.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Okay, so say they have a gun and they end
up shooting somebody, will their parents be held liable? Because hey,
well that's everything I hear prefrontal cortex. Because their prefrontal
is is is not prefrontaled. I guess until they get
to like thirty eight years old or something something like that. Well,
(32:21):
it's as far as you know it is. So all right, Oh,
you asked me a question about so New Mexico. Hey,
they've got their problem, they've got their issues, and so
they have they're getting some kind of restrictive gun laws.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Remember that was it the mayor or the gun was
the governor Albuquerque? Yeah, city mayor governor.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Oh she was.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
A whack a doodle.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah she was a doodle. That How come they never learned? John?
Why do they keep re electing these people?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I don't know. It's about to figure out out. We
just stumped.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
We just stumped, doctor Lott.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Okay, so guess what the Guess what I bet you
don't know. Guess what the homicide rate is for New
Mexico per one hundred thousand, per hundred thousand. Yeah, tell
me guess twelve point five. Wrong, it's twelve point five anyway.
(33:22):
And then what is Utah's.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Two two two? Wrong?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Wrong, it's two point two so anyway.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Uh, yeah, And we do all that with a free
for all on guns essentially.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And and grenade launchers and tanks and you're welcome throwers
and yeah and yeah, okay, all that all right? So
we we we last left here with the time talking
about uh, reciprocity recognition of other states. And we have
(33:58):
found and John said that we already have a laboratory
of sorts that we can gather the information.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
We don't have to guess as to what is going
to occur. The blood in the streets kind of a thing.
Do you think that? Well, look, do you think the
Trump administration will act on some kind of or promote
some kind of legislation?
Speaker 6 (34:21):
Try are, But the problem is they can get probably
through the House because Republicans control the House, but virtually
all House Democrats will vote against it. Maybe you get
one or two that go the other way, Gonzales from Texas,
But in the Senate, all the Democrats will vote against reciprocity.
(34:44):
And you know, the bizarre thing is is you have
Democrats from states like Virginia or Vermont. In Virginia, they
recognize the permits from like forty eight other states.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So and there's no problems.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
There's no move in Virginia to restrict people from other
states coming in because there's been no problems at all.
Yet you know, the two Democratic senators from that state
are going to filibuster.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
And so essentially, like in Virginia or like in Utah,
we have at least one sided de facto national reciprocity
all permits.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, you don't need you don't even need a permit. Yeah,
So there you go. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
That's right, get rid of your permits.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Well, I'm wondering. I'm really hoping, and I've heard rumored
we might see a big shift in Senate. A lot
of these people are getting up there to age, to
looking forward to retirement in the Senate federally federally yeah,
I mean it's you only have a couple of retirements.
The woman from North New Hampshire isn't going to run again. Uh,
(36:00):
Peters from Michigan's not running again.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, and those are the ones we know of that
have announced it. So far, so right. I'm hoping that
we'll see some more as well.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Get rid of those people that are like sixty years
old or over something like that. John Crimeresearch dot Org.
Go there, hit the donate button. Like I said, you
will feel better. And while you're around there, peruse the site.
Take a look at all the fantom past. Sign yeah
(36:31):
and sign up. Yeah, definitely sign up for the emails.
You'll get them their little nuggets of information. Doctor Lot,
Thank you very much for being on gun Radio.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Utah a n Well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Bill.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You're going out shooting, oh yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Clean up after yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Thank you,
Because is everything you've said hasn't been wrong correct, Clark
(00:03):
is right, Clark is correct.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
If you want correct information, Clark.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
You're tuned in.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
Yeah, right, and I and uh that's and that's all
I'm going to say about that. And so come here
to get your information. Uh so that while you're with
your in laws, love my in laws, but while you're
with your family party or something like that, that you
have the correct information.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Uh should should the topic.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Into guns, okay, and why guns are good and people
that have lawbiting people that have guns are good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And Bill, you had an interesting little video clip.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, San Francisco. Oh yes, yeah, you've got to go
check it out on Fox Snooze where just snoozews dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It's right on their front page.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It was a street preacher, street preacher, poor street preacher
doing his doing his preaching and some woman.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
He was it a man or was it a woman?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Because I had pretty big biceps. I'll let the viewers
and just go on Fox News and watch that a nice.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Gun and pointed at him as pretty amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So there's a there's a gun show today over at Southtown, right,
south Town Expo Center.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, the the in Sandy and oh and Glenn.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
But we're gonna have Glenn Partchell with Arn't Our Tactical
on talking about the long awaited Aren't Our Tactical Grand well,
the grand opening and.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
The soft opening.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
So uh, there's yeah, so anyway, but the not maybe
it's the not so grand opening. Hold on and hold on,
I'm getting Oh no, that's a silence there.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You did it? Did it make it? You didn't hear anything?
That's that's Bill Petterson.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I heard it across from me virtually literally, and uh.
And you know what I think the big news is that, Yeah,
once again we have doctor John Lott at the Crime
Prevention Research Center, the head of that, the beginner of that,
in studio, and we're gonna be talking.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We're gonna ask them a whole bunch of questions.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I've got some questions.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah really, yeah, Well, we're doing our show prep and
you're reading off these numbers to me, and I'm like, going,
how how does it all?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
See?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I've watched I've watched almost every episode of Law and Order,
including Special Victims Unit and all that kind of stuff,
and I consider myself to be an expert on crime,
and these numbers just don't add up with that. So yeah, anyway,
we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk
about national reciprocity. Good thing, bad thing. It a little
(02:48):
spoiler alert, it's a good thing, and a couple of things.
If we have time. I'm really hoping we have time.
What's happening in the state of Washington. What's happening in
the state of New Mexico. Where'd my New Mexico stuff go? Oh?
Speaker 5 (03:02):
There?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It is right there? And do you want to take
a guess? From New Mexico to Washington to Utah? Who
has the lower homicide rate?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Bill?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, you are correct, Utah. Bye, at least double in
one case and six times less?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh really six times six times?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Yeah, well well maybe not exactly. Maybe we'll call it
ten and a half times. So anyway, all right, so
that is what we've got, Bill, What do you have
for did you?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Is you gonna see some news here out of coming
out of Florida. House Bill seven fifty nine seeks to
lower the age of a firearm purchase to eighteen years
of age. And we're gonna talk a little bit about
this and why this is important, and uh, yeah, I
think this is this is a great Bill.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Okay, so I have one thing to say.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Okay, anytime you talk about letting eighteen year olds do
anything prefrontal cortex. That's what I'm obviously parroting something that
I have heard before. But apparently eighteen year olds cannot
walk into chew gum let alone carry a firearm at eighteen.
(04:16):
You need to be I think thirty eight years old
or something before your prefrontal cortex is is not so prefrontal.
I guess, I don't know. I'll shout out to Casey Jane,
who is coming into town a little late because of
the storm, but a little late, and she has in
(04:38):
her Mini Cooper two very energetic.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Australian shepherds in the Mini Cooper as she's driving.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Oh, you're gonna drop them off at the in laws or.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I don't know what she's gonna do with him anyway, Yeah,
that'd be good.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
All right.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
So you know what I'm gonna do right now, I'm
gonna talk about this gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse because you
know what, because I you can do that at any
time I want to. Is your gun busted? Is it broken?
Is it cracked? Does it have Yeah? You have some
and Is it scratched?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Do you need do you need some adjustment to it?
Do you need some customization to it? Do you just
need it? Maybe you don't know exactly what it is,
but it ain't working right. Get it over to the
gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West
in Salt Lake City and give him a call at
eight to one three zero four eighty seventy eight one
three zero four eighty seventy. They can fix your gun
(05:34):
so that you can put all the shots.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
In one hole. Probably some of that is up to you.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
But anyway, now, if you can't get it over to
the sixteen thirty South fifty seventy West in Salt Lake,
you can take it into any of the over one
hundred and forty six Sportsmen's Warehouse locations because Sportsman's Warehouse
owns the gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse. All right, Uh, and
definitely tell them that Clark sent you and Bill tried
(06:03):
to stop you.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
All right, tell you what.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
When we come back on Gun Radio, Utah, We've got
lots more to come, So stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We've got a lot to cover on the show today,
and I'm going to jump into a couple of things
here real quick. We've got Glenn with R and R
Tactical joining us from Actually, I think you're at the
gun show, aren't you, Glenn.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
I'm right here at the gun show. Yes, as we speak.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, awesome, Hey is it? That's great. I've got to
run out there for sure. I'm gonna do that after
the show today. Hey, tell us about our and our tactical.
We've got some great things coming up and things that
are happening right now, and we're glad to have you
on the show with us to get us caught up.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
Well, I'm god that I'm here. We have some fantastic
things coming up. We're getting ready to open. We're gonna
be opening this Friday, a long away, that opening is
finally going to happen. We're gonna have a lot of
celebration going on down there. We're gonna have giveaways Friday
and Saturday. They're gonna be giving away three guns and
one of the number of things festivities. Now, this is
our soft opening. We'll be doing the grand opening with
(07:06):
even more things coming up, probably in May. So we're
gonna have a lot of things going on in the
next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Awesome building, very exciting. Tell us about this new building,
this new shop. Some of the things that you guys
are going to be offering for everyone.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Well, it's thirty two thousand square feet. We're going to
be doing besides having a full line gun shop, we'll
be carrying a lot of products, so a lot of
brands and things. We're going to be an house or couting,
full line of suppressors, gunsmithing, laser engraving. We've got a
Whizzer laser graving, so if we need to cups or
mugs or trophies or guns, if you're doing an NFA,
(07:41):
you know, an spr something, you can have that engraved.
We're gonna be building custom polsters in the shop. We're
gonna be doing a lot of bills. Classes are fifteen
some blocks and maybe nineteen eleven class, a lot of
training classes. We're going to be having beginning Intermigury, beginning
intermediate and advanced classes at the gun. And we got
a simulator room where we're going to be working with
(08:03):
the electronic simulators. OH, Coffee and soda shop, T shirts, Clothbys,
who Gun Safe. They just moved to a whole bunch
of gun safes in this week. Things are really popping
ready happeny fast right now?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
That sounds awesome. I mean when you say simulator room,
I love simulator rooms.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
They're so fun.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I tell my wife I'm going to go run five
miles and all those ideas. Step into one of those
for thirty minutes and it feels like I ran five miles. Hey,
tell us a little bit more. Where can our listeners
get more information? Website hours, your days and everything like that.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Well, the days are going to be seven days a week.
We're gonna be able from nine to nine, except on Sunday.
It's going to be closing a little bit earlier on Sunday.
The website is our Tactical Design. Are our Tacticaldesign dot com.
Our phone number is eight oh one one zero eight.
They can get information there if you come by the show.
(09:03):
We have a keyr code that you could scan and
you could put in for a grind, for a free
range membership, a lot of things like that. We're gonna
be doing a lot of rentals. I'll be working on
the gun range itself, which is six lanes of twenty
five yards, six lanes of fifty yards. We do a
lot of machine gun rentals, and we're going to have
a lot of other things. So if you want to
try out the newest sig or blocker winners come out,
(09:23):
we'll batable come and trying before you buy him. Kind
of a thing. A lot of things to be going on.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Very good. We're listening to Glenn. He's with our and
our tactical.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Glenn, thank you so much for getting us update being
on gun Radio Utah. Have a great rest of your
day and we'll see you in a little bit, so
thank you.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Look forward to seeing you down there.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Thanks Glenn.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Okay, so, Bill, it sounded kind of like there was
chipmunks on his phone at the at the very time
that we're but that's fine.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
We got it all. We got all. Aren't our tactic designed?
All right?
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So doctor John Lott, welcome back to gun Radio Utah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And I've got a question for you.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
So, like I said, I'm pretty much an expert on
all things because I've watched Law and Order a lot
of Law and Order and true crime stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Well, then you know, there's nothing I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I know there is nothing. There is absolutely nothing.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I can leave now.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
No, Actually, I'm sure we might have some other answerary
question for you. But how is it that, Well, you
tell me, cops stop bad guys, they stop active shooters,
they do everything. And permit holders, well, we really just
don't really ever have occasion to engage or do anything.
(10:44):
We shoot ourselves, we shoot other innocent people.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's just a mess.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's what I That's.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
What I have learned from the from the media. Do
you have some other information from some research that you
have done.
Speaker 6 (10:58):
You know, I've learned never to quit rush and the
police shows that they have on the different channels that
are there, they always seem to get it right.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Thanks for having me here. It's great to be back.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
Look, one of the reasons why we decided to look
at this was just to see how accurate or inaccurate
they betray it portray it. Over the last couple of
years since the Brewin decision, there's been a lot of
examples on these TV police shows about concealed carry permit holders.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think it's kind of.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
You know, the gun control groups and connection with the
media to kind of push back on concealed carry after
the Supreme Court decision making it easier for people to carry.
And so what we looked at was the active shooting reports.
The FBI each year puts out these active shooting reports,
(11:54):
and in the ten years from twenty fourteen to twenty
twenty three, there were three hundred and fifty of these cases.
So you have instances where an active shooting is where
a gun's firing in public, not part of some other
type of crime like a robbery or a gang fight
over drug turf, anything from one person being shot at
(12:16):
and missed all the way up to a mass public shooting.
And I was surprised by some of the stuff. What
you find, for example, is that concealed carried permit holders
actually stop these attacks at a higher rate.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Than police do.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
Concealed carried permit holders stopped the most fifty two percent
of these attacks. Police stopped about forty five percent of them.
And I think part of what's going on there is
that when you're talking about somebody in uniform, they have
a real tactical disadvantage in stopping these attacks because you
(12:57):
can have you know, imagine that you're one of these
murderers that's there. If you're thinking about doing the attack
and you see a police officer there, you may wait
till the police officer leaves the area, or you may
move on to another target yourself, or if you're going
to insist on attacking in that one place, why the
officers there?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Who are you going to go after first?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And so whereas with the concealed care permit holder, they
can't identify those individuals beforehand, and so you know, the
likelihood that a permit holder might be there compared to
a police officer to stop it is higher. But it
also helps explain some other things. The rate that police
officers are killed or wounded is much higher than it
(13:43):
is for concealed care permit holders. So not only is
there a smaller number of these cases where police stop them,
but twenty seven times police officers are killed by these attackers.
Only twice are they killed by are the civilian.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Permit holders killed?
Speaker 6 (14:03):
You know, on a per case rate, that's the difference
of almost seven times. And the rate that they're wounded
isn't quite as dramatically different, but it's still about seventeen
percent higher for police officers than it is for civilians. So, look,
you mentioned before about the importance of police. Anybody who's
(14:24):
read my academic work knows that I think police are
extremely important. I think police are the single most important
factor for reducing crime. But I think the police themselves
acknowledge that they have a very difficult job.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
You know. They know that they.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Almost always arrive on the crime scene after the crimes occurred,
and that raises questions about what people should be able
to do.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
But the fact that they're.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
In uniform makes them targets, makes their job, you know,
maybe comforting to you and I to know that there's
an officer there and we can see them in uniform,
particularly for doing things like stopping these mass shootings.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
They have a very difficult job.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Okay, So I've got a question for you now, just
with all the well we'll see, so with all the training,
because that's the other thing that we get.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Police are trained to handle this stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
They're trained to shoot the bad guys and not shoot
the good guys and so on and so forth, and
we're not. We're basically just running a mock the regular
permit holders. How of those active shooter instances from twenty
fourteen to twenty twenty three, how many non combatants? How
many how many people did permit holders shoot that shouldn't
(15:39):
have been shot versus police shooting people that shouldn't have
been shot.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Right. No, there's a difference there, I mean both in
both cases it's low. It's a low rate.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
But obviously if you watch the TV police shows, you
think that that's a likely outcome for the permit holders.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
There's only one case of the one hundred and.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Eighty cases that civilian stopped that a bystander was accidentally
wounded by the permit holder. By contrast, for police, there
were four people that they killed. Two of them, in fact,
were other police officers, kind of death by.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Fred fire that was there. And uh so you know,
part of what I think goes on is that.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
A number of these cases where civilians stopped these attacks,
they don't even necessarily fire the gun. Simply having somebody
pointing a gun at these attackers is often enough to
stop it. But I think generally permit holders tend to
be more reticent to go and fire their gun than
police are.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Okay, so I've got a question.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
So you you were able to collect all this data
and then you and you get it all, is where
do you get the data from to look at all
these shootings in that well?
Speaker 6 (16:56):
I mean the FBI each year puts out and they've
been doing this for a number of years now over
a decade, puts out these active shooting reports where they
have hired people God only knows how many millions of
dollars that they've spent on it to go and put
(17:18):
together a list of these active shooting cases. And so
one can go and take their data and look through it. Now,
one of the things that you and I have talked
before about is, and I worked on this when I
was at the Department of Justice, the FBI misses cases,
and the cases that they missed systematically are instances where
(17:39):
civilians have used guns permitted concealed handguns to stop these attacks.
And you know, and so we list all those cases
on our website at crimeresearch dot org. People can go
and check not only are the cases summarized there, but
then there are links to the underlying information, so people
(17:59):
can double check at themselves. And you know, you just
you collect these things and you just go through and
read the stories about them and see who shot who
and whether bystanders were shot, and you know, just the
different claims that are there. You know, did the permit
holder get in the way of the police, did they
(18:21):
have the gun taken away from them?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I know you mentioned law in order.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
I've seen cases there as well as Chicago p D
and others where the concealed carry permit holder gets in
the way of the police and prevents them from doing
their job. You know, it's interesting I couldn't find one
single case of something like that happening. You know, it's
so much of the gun control debate is about things
(18:48):
that might possibly go wrong. Well, you know, this is
an example where we don't need a guess about things.
You can actually go back and look and and in fact,
you find that permit holders do extremely well in these
types of circumstances.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
John, stay on with us, don't leave. I think you
have to have a code to get out anyway, So
hang tight. And because we've got I've got a lot
more questions for you, including the accuracy of the FBI
and that type of thing. And so we're going to
talk more about that with doctor John Locke. Crimeresearch dot org.
(19:27):
Crime Research dot Org. Go there, hit the donate button.
You'll you'll feel better about yourself when we get back
on Gun Radio Utah. Stay tuned for Flashing Brass. Yeah
was that a segue?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Hey, so our friends have flash my brass are out
Southtown Expo. I can't call it Southtown Expo. It's the
Mountain America Expo. They're in Sandy, just on State Street,
and boy, go stop by and say hi to them.
They got nine millimeter brand new Fiochi Winchester PMC thousand
rounds for two twenty nine. A thousand, yep, A thousands
(20:08):
for your pups.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yep. How long would that last you? One minute?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
About them? Roughly a minute? Yeah, depending on which one
it was in.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I'm gonna go stop by after the show and pick
up a box because I took the kids out shooting
this week and they shot quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So yeah, good times.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
All right, we have we've kept doctor John Lot with
Crime Research Crime Prevention.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
You need the code?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Do you need the code to get out? So we've
just denied you the code. And since you're still here,
thank you. Uh And like I said before, go to
crimeresearch dot org. That has I mean, there's a million
articles on there. Maybe not literally, but there's a lot
of articles and you can search through them and you
can find a topic. And what you're going to find
(20:57):
is look correct me if I'm wrong, peer viewed articles
or at the very least articles that have footnotes on
them that you can that are backing up the evidence.
Speaking of backing up the evidence, the FBI gets has
a lot of data and then they publish results and
(21:18):
things like that. What so, we've talked about the questions
they're not asking of the data. But John, what if
they they all make mistakes? Everybody makes mistakes. I have
made a mistake before.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
No, yeah, I have the hell you say.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
But.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
You have found many of these with your with your
analysis of their data, and you've you've mentioned it to
them and you've pointed out exactly have they corrected it?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
No, that's the problem.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
I mean, it's hard to believe that they could make
as many mistakes as one finds on these stuff. But
even you know, as you say, it's one thing to
make a mistake, it's another thing to have somebody pointed
out to you, even another thing for them to even acknowledge,
as they have in the past, that yeah, we made
(22:12):
a mistake, but they never fixed them afterwards. And unfortunately
that's I mean, that's very disappointing. But I think it
goes to evidence that there's kind of bad motives on
these things.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Well, look at who's relying on this information. Decision makers,
legislators both state and local, and our federal art or
US House and Senate are relying on this data. They
quote the data and they pass laws based on this
data that is sometimes wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So it affects elections too.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
I mean, just this last year, for a whole year,
we had headlines in news articles saying things like people
think crime is falling, but people mistakenly think that it's increasing.
That was based on the twenty twenty two crime data
from the FBI that came out in October twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
When they put in the data for twenty twenty three.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
This past September, they very quietly and secretly updated the
data for twenty twenty two went from originally showing a
drop to an increase, but no mention of that in
their press release that they had made the change. They
had one footnote, a one sentence footnote buried in the
(23:36):
report itself that all it said was we've updated the
data for twenty twenty two. No mention about the change
from a drop to an increase, no explanation for why
they why they had made the change, or what had
been involved.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
With the change.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
And you know, even when it finally became public because
you know, I discovered it. You had a situation where
and media would reach out to the FBI. The FBI
wouldn't give people a clear answer, would just say we
stand by our data that's there without you know, without
(24:14):
explaining anything, or really even because I know before the election,
I believe they just didn't want to have an explicit
statement out there saying, yeah, the data that we told
you before had shown a drop and crime now shows
an increase in violent crime that would have hurt the
Democrats and been against.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
The narrative that was there. And so you know that.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
So it's not just the types of things that you're
talking about, but it affects elections.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
That was huge, And now you bring it up.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I remember that the previous presidential administration touted their Bipartisan
Crime Reduction Act whatever it was, bipartisan yet right anyway,
and saying that crime had gone down, and they ran
on that. You're you're absolute right. Okay, So now I've
got I'm going to twitch gears a little bit. Permitless
carry or no, no, not permitless carry, National reciprocity for
(25:09):
concealed carry permits good idea, bad idea?
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Well, I mean, if you think people being able to
carry guns for protection makes people safer, you know, you
would think that it's a good idea.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
You know.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
The interesting thing is, for decades they tried to pass
a law to allow police who had ten years of
experience to be able to go and carry when they
traveled across state lines, and Democrats regularly filibustered it. Ted Kennedy,
Senator from Massachusetts, kind of led the filibusters. Only after
(25:48):
nine to eleven that they were actually able to finally
break the filibuster that the Democrats had and get that passed.
You know, you have the same thing happening now with reciprocity.
You know, right now, if you have a driver's license,
you can travel from Utah to Maine or Florida. You know,
(26:10):
you have to obey the different traffic rules. You know,
some states allow you to turn right on red and
others don't allow you to turn right on red.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
And you have to know the different rules that are there.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
And you know, the question is can we have it
so that concealed carries the same.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I mean, you have people who travel.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
Women may be traveling by herself across the country and
she has to drive through states like Illinois or California
or New York. You know, trying to get from Maine
down to Utah, she's going to have to drive.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Through New York and maybe also Illinois.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
And you know, if she if her car breaks down
on the side of the road, she may wish that
she's able to go and protect herself. Or if you're
a truck drive and you're carrying valuable cargo, people try
to steal trucks.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So going through a lot of states, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Is valuable.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
And uh, you know, will you have to be disarmed
if you have to travel through certain states that are there?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
So uh you know.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
So there's been a push to make it so that
concealed care permits are going to be recognized as you travel,
just as just as driver's licenses are.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Okay, but you brought up a good point, that one
that went one. You had one one salient point in
that entire thing. And but you brought up and we've
only got like less than a minute to talk about this,
and so we're going to bring it over before we
let you out.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Is that laws are different.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I mean Utah is Hey, we're the most permissive, and
so if you go to any other state you're going
to have more restrictive How are they going to know
what the laws are in these more restrictive states, And
won't that just lead to a free for all on
violating gun laws and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Well, we already have that type of situation in most states.
I mean, if you have a concealed care permit in Utah,
you're allowed to you have reciprocity with thirty six other states.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
That all the states that are there you have different rules.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
In fact, it's very difficult to find cases where concealed
care permit holder in Utah when they travel run into.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Problems in other states. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
So okay, so we just answered that one. But bam,
we've been doing it for years and it hasn't happened.
All Right, when we come back on Gun Radio Utah,
we have lots more.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
To come, So stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Welcome back to Gun Radio Utah, Clark and what to
do there. Hey, some big dates that are coming up.
Just make sure you mark your calendars. We've got the
big AIM application period. So it's going to start on
March twentieth. I think it starts at eight morning, So
make sure you get that taken care of and then
also following week, March twenty seventh is a big day
(29:08):
for US Clark.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Governor. Oh, yes, so he has.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
We've been doing so the governors has up until then
to sign or goes into law or did he do
it twenty days after the session and and that was
last Friday at midnight.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
In regards to gun issues, we don't see anything that
he would go against.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
We had some.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Really heard anything. Yes, Yeah, he has been calling me.
I haven't been answering the phone.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's good. Yeah, maybe I've.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Been busy, Okay, okay, And he has been calling me,
you know, seemingly excited call after callings.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I just don't answer it.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
So you got some stuff there on New Mexico, New Mexico,
not all Mexico, new Nuevo Mexico.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
So they've got a Senate bill. So there's session and
is still in session their legislative whatever. So they've got
SB two seventy nine. It's a Senate bill, and what
it does is it's going to ban the possession, the sale,
the transfer, the looking at the ordering, everything of gas
(30:22):
operated firearms that use a gas operated cycling system, hence
also known as semi automatic type firearms in fact, it's
called the Gas Operated Semi Automatic Firearms Exclusion Act.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
That does that say GOSF.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Boy, we could have some fun with that name.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
So anyway, so I mean that that includes that we're
talking about the old Mini forts. Even during the assault
weapons ban, they never looked at like the Mini fourteen,
which sometimes you can actually get magazines that will use
both AR and many fourteen mags shoot the exact same
round at the exact same speed, and they never banned
(31:02):
those and one carbines they would ban that, And so
we're talking, well, these.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Are not gun people, clerk, and they're just not as knowledgeable.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Really is that?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I think, Hey, there's a great bill out of Florida,
those House Bills seven fifty nine they've got. It's going
to actually lower the minimum firearm firearm purchase age back
to eighteen. Now, they did have this already in place
back before Parkland.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Eighteen years old.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, but eighteen, but that's crazy talk, That is crazy.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
We're we're gonna let an eighteen year next thing, you know,
We're gonna let.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Them drive well and vote this. Have can kind of
buy off on this. Eighteen year olds are legal adults,
they can vote, they can serve the military, they can
sign contracts, and they can be held fully responsible under
Floridian loss. So this would allow them to have their.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Okay, so say they have a gun and they end
up shooting somebody, will their parents be held liable? Because hey,
well that's everything I hear prefrontal cortex. Because their prefrontal
is is is not prefrontaled. I guess until they get
to like thirty eight years old or something something like that. Well,
(32:21):
it's as far as you know it is. So all right, Oh,
you asked me a question about so New Mexico. Hey,
they've got their problem, they've got their issues, and so
they have they're getting some kind of restrictive gun laws.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Remember that was it the mayor or the gun was
the governor Albuquerque? Yeah, city mayor governor.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Oh she was.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
A whack a doodle.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah she was a doodle. That How come they never learned? John?
Why do they keep re electing these people?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I don't know. It's about to figure out out. We
just stumped.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
We just stumped, doctor Lott.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Okay, so guess what the Guess what I bet you
don't know. Guess what the homicide rate is for New
Mexico per one hundred thousand, per hundred thousand. Yeah, tell
me guess twelve point five. Wrong, it's twelve point five anyway.
(33:22):
And then what is Utah's.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Two two two? Wrong?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Wrong, it's two point two so anyway.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Uh, yeah, And we do all that with a free
for all on guns essentially.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And and grenade launchers and tanks and you're welcome throwers
and yeah and yeah, okay, all that all right? So
we we we last left here with the time talking
about uh, reciprocity recognition of other states. And we have
(33:58):
found and John said that we already have a laboratory
of sorts that we can gather the information.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
We don't have to guess as to what is going
to occur. The blood in the streets kind of a thing.
Do you think that? Well, look, do you think the
Trump administration will act on some kind of or promote
some kind of legislation?
Speaker 6 (34:21):
Try are, But the problem is they can get probably
through the House because Republicans control the House, but virtually
all House Democrats will vote against it. Maybe you get
one or two that go the other way, Gonzales from Texas,
But in the Senate, all the Democrats will vote against reciprocity.
(34:44):
And you know, the bizarre thing is is you have
Democrats from states like Virginia or Vermont. In Virginia, they
recognize the permits from like forty eight other states.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So and there's no problems.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
There's no move in Virginia to restrict people from other
states coming in because there's been no problems at all.
Yet you know, the two Democratic senators from that state
are going to filibuster.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
And so essentially, like in Virginia or like in Utah,
we have at least one sided de facto national reciprocity
all permits.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Yeah, you don't need you don't even need a permit. Yeah,
So there you go. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
That's right, get rid of your permits.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Well, I'm wondering. I'm really hoping, and I've heard rumored
we might see a big shift in Senate. A lot
of these people are getting up there to age, to
looking forward to retirement in the Senate federally federally yeah,
I mean it's you only have a couple of retirements.
The woman from North New Hampshire isn't going to run again. Uh,
(36:00):
Peters from Michigan's not running again.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, and those are the ones we know of that
have announced it. So far, so right. I'm hoping that
we'll see some more as well.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Get rid of those people that are like sixty years
old or over something like that. John Crimeresearch dot Org.
Go there, hit the donate button. Like I said, you
will feel better. And while you're around there, peruse the site.
Take a look at all the fantom past. Sign yeah
(36:31):
and sign up. Yeah, definitely sign up for the emails.
You'll get them their little nuggets of information. Doctor Lot,
Thank you very much for being on gun Radio.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Utah a n Well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Bill.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You're going out shooting, oh yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Clean up after yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Thank you,
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