Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I think I think we're on Bill. Yeah, I
think Welcome to Gun Radio, Utah. Okay, thank yeah, I
had to push some buttons there, so welcome to Gun Radio, Utah.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I am Clark Opposion.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
That's kind of thank goodness that that was close.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, And he told me not to push buttons.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I am telling you not to push that's Bill.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Patterson and uh and welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We've got a great show for you today, real fantastic
interesting topics. I think for today's show, I'm not a
Ghost Di Maner. Casey Jane is holding down the fort
at Ghost di Manor right now. I have the dogs, Bill,
I have the puppies, yeah, the the attack puppies. Yeah,
the attack Aussies. And it's basically it's a vacation for
(00:48):
Casey Jane when I leave. Plus it's a double vacation.
It's like a luxury vacation when I take the dogs
with me. So it's interesting because the neighbor in Cottle
Heights has taken down the fence, our our joint fence,
and I told him, I said, you know, you put
it up and I'll.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Pay half whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
But the dogs think that they have now expanded their
backyard by by one hundred percent, so you.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Places to check out.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So anyway, yeah, so I had to tell you Bill,
it's been a busy week. I've been here since Tuesday.
I went to the ATF breakfast on Wednesday, meeting with
the ATF and a lot of f Fl's art for
Manian was there, and Sportsman's Warehouse was there, Matt, and
(01:37):
you know lots of cal Ranch, you know, all the
big EIA's from all the big gun places there. So
they well, it's basically it's an ask anything. Oh okay,
we can ask. We can ask them basically anything. And
we did and you know, kind of a you know,
he's not making you know, he can't tell us secret stuff.
(01:58):
I don't know if there is any secret stuff, but anyway,
we had some interesting conversations and I have my notes.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I had like a page of notes then.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Since I since I came out here, and I don't
I don't leave ghoste manner all that often about every
two weeks now, right, I try to combine all the
stuff we do.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So we did the ATF.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Then the next day, I you know Janelye Tobias, Yes,
she's the rich the gun gal, the original you know,
way back she was actually doing this before I was
in I think I started what eighty no, nineteen ninety
one or ninety two, something like that, ninety five officially
with USC. Anyway, she was going strong with women against
(02:40):
gun control, and so I ended up getting together with
one of her family members and I'm not going to
say who, and teaching them handgun stuff. So wait, I
just brought a massive different size you know, subcompact, compact,
(03:01):
full size guns.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I did.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Oh okay, actually I brought my pumpkin spice clock okay,
orange one. So and we learned all about guns and
then the next step will be to go shooting.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Then the next day.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You remember Charles Charles Hardy, Yeah, with gun of Utah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Fantastic guy.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
He was big, really really big and instrumental and a
lot of gun laws there. So his family members. So
went taught at a concealed carey class last night for them,
and it's it's been interesting. I don't know what it is.
I mean, Trump won. We should all be breathing a
sigh of relief, right. I am getting more calls for
(03:43):
people to get permits and family members and they're reaching out,
and the post, the postman. My postman reached out to
me and he says, are you the Clark of Potion
that that has the radio show and blah blah blah,
because I guess he kept looking at them.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I says, I am. It's pronounced the clerk opposition.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So and he says, well, I you know, what does
it take to get a concealed carry permit?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And oh blah blah. So I says, I'll take care
of you. You know, we'll take care of it. And
so him and his.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Wife three stamps for life, and I go to the
doctor from my regular complete blood count check or whatever, which,
by the way, I'm in the zero percentile for plaque
in my arteries.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
This zero. That's good, that zero percentile.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, So anyway, uh, he wants uh, he says, what
you know, just out of the blue, does it take
to get a concealed carr? I says, We'll take care
of that for you. So anyway, it's just like everywhere,
you should come to town more often, That's what I'm hearing. Yeah, anyway,
so we've got that and what else what I've got
(04:53):
on a Oh, we're Facebook live. By the way, if
you go to gun Radio Utah Facebook page. You can
actually see us, both of us on live live streaming
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So what have we got. We've got that.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Oh, I want to talk about something and I can't
remember when it was, but John Korea on what's the
name of his active self protection Active self Protection, he
really is super good at communicating his knowledge and his
information about gunfights. He's a expert witness, among other things.
(05:30):
He's written so many articles.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I think he calls it self based evidence learning, where
we can learn from what others did, whether they did
it right or wrong. We can learn to better ourselves
mentally up here.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's what he called it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Okay self, Yeah, just saying.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So I met him officially at gun rights Wallsey conference
a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And anyway, so we show a couple we had a
long time ago. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So anyway, we got to and not to be confused
with our good friend Larry Korea, monster hunter international author
who's also he wrote a fantastic book on the second
amend Anyway, So I want to talk about carrying extra magazines,
carrying speedloaders, carrying that. I want to talk about that,
(06:19):
and maybe in the next segment. So do you want
to talk about that absolutely. In fact, we were talking
about this as we're prepping. I actually was thinking about
this exact topic this past week on my l hunt
and how we you know, because with my rifle, I
only have three rounds in my rifle, and it's like,
(06:39):
should I go be buying more magazines? You know, and
can just make it so convenient and drop it and
pop on the way. That's that's why I carried an
AR ten fully exactly. Yeah, I've been a little heavier,
but I carried AR ten.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
But the principle was is, you know, do we need
extra magazine? So I got I got some thoughts I
want to share with you on So I can't wait
till we get to.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
That, Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And then there's some other questions on that came up
that come up a lot, and we take it for
granted because we deal with the codes that both the
state and the federal codes and that and is do
you have to inform law enforcement when you're pulled over
there you have a gun, You've got a gap? And
(07:22):
what about brandishing? What constitutes the Act in seventy six
ten five six of brandishing a firearm?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, that's there's a well.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Also, you have an article on the is it Trump
Derangement Syndra? Is this a a kind of a offshoot
of that.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, it is actually came from the NSSF article. I
believe it was this week National Shooting Sports Foundation Shoes
Sports Foundation regarding the true derangement of how governors want
to trump proof their citizens in and around the Second Amendment.
(08:09):
And we're going to talk about a few things and
how this could work for them and work against.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Does this involve wearing plastic bags over their head pretty
much masking up and that kind of stuff? All right,
tell you So we've got that and more. We got
dumb dumb gun mishaps. Yeah, I've got like three of
them that are Those will be fun somewhat awkward to
talk about when we come back on Gun Radio, Utah,
stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Glad to have you with us on that. I can't
call it Thanksgiving Eve yet because we've got a few days,
but we were going to talk about a few things
regarding Thanksgiving and how you can prepare to go to Thanksgiving,
whether you're going to Red Thanksgiving or a Blue Thanksgiving.
(08:58):
And I'm not talking about BYU or you to fans.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
That actually could be that too, though.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It could be and it happens, it's kind of switched
maybe a little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, but yeah, well, hopefully you will give you some insight,
you'll pick up on some things that you can share
at the Thanksgiving dinner. But we were going to talk
about one of the topics here, Clark, trump proofing states.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh is that what we're talking about? Okay, trump proofing States?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, I'm going to save the magazine one third.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Ye, okay, all right, that's good.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
So n s F n s s F. That is
a tongue twister.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
National Shooting Sports Foundation, yep.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I should just call it. That came out with an
article this week basically government states, governors within states want
to Trump proof. There's states in and regarding around the
Second Amendment. And you have to go back and look
(10:02):
at the top five states that were swing states that
swung more toward President Truck. Everybody did, everyone did.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
California had forty vote for Trump, which is unheard of.
Now that's huge, and I think I think every state,
even the every state increased its percentage.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
And and if you look at the red map, yeah,
if you look at the red map. It's like, holy cow. Yeah,
it's it's like you got it. I mean, I don't
remember that. I mean I was a lot younger than
but Reagan days.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Every single swing state was one Trump.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So my message to Gavin Newsom and the governor of
Washington and Oregon and New New York and New York is,
read the room, stop throwing tantrums.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Put them And so you've already so what are they
what are they planning on doing? Bill? What what was
in that.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Ns So they want they're calling it the Trump proof
their states And basically Governor Newsom, even though he proclaims
that his state has the they're number one in gun control.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Get this.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Last year, they were number one in active shooter incidents.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
To me, California looks more like number two. But anyway,
exactly exactly. And then you go and you look at
the city of Los Angeles. Their city council just cut
one hundred and fifty million dollars from the police budget,
basically telling law enforcement, Tell the citizens be good victims
if you find yourselves being attacked. Okay, San Francisco, San
(11:47):
Francisco huge, Okay, hometown, your hometown, my hometown, but across
the Bay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
George Soros funded on District Attorney Chelsea Boudin. They gave
her the boot. I mean they and that is interesting,
that is huge. Yeah, because they're tired of.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Criminals committing crimes being arrested at the cops do their job,
they get arrested, and then they.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Proposition thirty six, which would reinstitute tougher crime penalties or
tougher penalties on these crimes. Overwhelmingly landslide seventy percent of
the vote.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But my point is in California and all these states,
they have existing laws, existing penalties that they.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Just aren't well, they're just ignoring them. And then you've
got George Gastone rejected he didn't win.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh really well, I mean it's like in New York.
This was back a week ago. It was an illegal
immigrant in NYPD with a loaded AR fifteen is back
on the streets after him and another illegal immigrant ganged
(13:03):
up on some NYPD cops at a Bronx subway station.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
They nabbed him.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
He was relieving himself inside the subway station while while
lugging the AR fifteen in his backpack, and he got
into a scuffle with NYPD. They arrested him, they did
their job, and then unfortunately cops have to just kind
of it give him into the system. He lives above
(13:32):
a daycare center in the Bronx. They let him out
on bond, which he promised to show back up.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
This goes back to my theory or the discussion we
had just a couple of weeks ago. We had a
great victory. We should be proud of this victory, but
of all things, we cannot let our guard down. Now
we've got incidences like what you just mentioned. We've got
things where they're looking to trump prove the states regarding
(14:01):
Second Amendment. And then we've got I mean, they're absolutely
going out saying, hey, we're gonna make our state, We're
gonna make our cities sanctuary cities for illegal immigration. So
they can't get these third point four million points of
the state.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
If they want to do that, okay, the to the
degree they can legally do that, to the same degree
we take away federal money from them, exactly, So you
want to do that, that's fine, to the degree they can,
because in some cases they're literally violating federal law by
allowing illegals in there, and and other criminals, but we
(14:40):
take away.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Federal funds from that, twenty is going to be awesome.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, we've got about two years to get this done
because a lot of times we flip those the House
and the Senate, sometimes on the midterm elections, and.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
So we've also got Did you have anything more on that?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
No, it's just the chaos, the bed wedding that still
continues on and and I'm fine if you're a sore loser,
you're sore losers. Now I can see why some of
these big cities, when a baseball team or a hockey
team or football team wins a championship, why the people
destroy the city whether they win. Yeah, yeah, exactly, they
(15:20):
just they it's it's just chaos. It's like, I'm so glad, thankful.
There's a good term to use right now. Thankful we
have some great freedoms and great leadership here in Utah.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, which there was some talk about.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Uh, you did bring it up. Huh you're going.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
In the Senate. Yeah, in the Senate. And he's not
sworn in yet though, I mean he's he's elected. But anyway,
we're watching that very closely.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well. Anyway, I make we may, we may dive into
that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So the the White House Office under Biden, I don't know.
It was a year ago, a year and a half ago,
came up with the Office of Executive bed Wedding and
hand Ringing, Okay, and so they the White House Office
of Gun Violence Prevention. Yeah, and it was so it
(16:14):
was being headed by the Vice President. The gun controls
are oh Kamala HERM Cambell. And so what happens to
that office? So obviously they're not going to show up
for work on January twentieth, right.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, they're already laying off people left and right now
in Washington right now, of course.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
But should so my question is so, so NSSF Lawrence Keene,
he's the Senior Vice President General Counsel. Great guy, by
the way, he says they should just disband disband that office.
I say, keep the office, but rename it, repurpose it,
(17:01):
and staff it. I think they should staff it with
I think John Lott should be the new you know,
I think John Lott should be doctor. John Lott should
be in there.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So the White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention, because
what it did was it's a government funded effort to
infringe upon constitutional rights, specifically the Second Amendment.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
So well, heck you and I can go there and
fulfill this job. I mean we could, you know, hire
a bunch of people in each state and make this
thing rock and roll. Yeah. I like your idea. Let's
keep the office around because yeah, let's make it to
do good.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Because it's Lawrence Keene says, this office installed under President
Joe Biden never addressed the criminal issues of firearms. Yeah,
gun violence prevention. And they never addressed the actual cause.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
And and then who did they employ the same people
that have done nothing but obfiscate exist good existing gun law,
you know, or or penalties and that type of stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
They were gun control lobbyists. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
And and the boss was the borders are too.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah she did she did as good with with uh
with violence perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
How do you.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Get a job and you've got responsibilities, show up and
I'm not gonna do anything today. Uh take this day
off and that's not important.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I mean they literally populated that office with with gun
gun control lobbyists that work for Bloomberg and Saurus. I
don't know about Saurus, but anyway, I say we ought to.
I honestly think John Lott would be great. All right,
So we are at the bottom and if you want
to if you want to watch us live, go to
(18:51):
Gun Radio Utah Facebook page.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Ye, you can see us in studios here and there's uh,
there's there's several people on there right now. So I'm
gonna get caught up on this magazine on the net.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You're you're really going to do that? All right when
we come back on Gun Radio Utah, stay tuned. Bill
Petterson sitting right across from me looking at a magazine.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I did, and we had a great conversation with our.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and it's the NSSF magazine too.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Uh so anyway, if you're if you're not familiar with NSSF,
they are.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
They're kind of like the n ra A only for
the industry, for the industry.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, so the industry like gun stores, gun manufacturers, anybody that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Has anything to do with guns.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And I's Hunting Shot Show is uh the best trade
association show Evering up?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Quick coming up?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, January actually starts the very week the legislature starts.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So now I'm really going to be torn.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
No, we'll just set up a studio in the room
and and uh, and just do it remotely.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And do the Uh, yeah we do the committee calls.
Yeah we've done that before. But anyway, we've got that
huge bill this year. Yeah all right, So speaking of guns,
uh is your gun broken bill? Any broken guns? I
don't actually have. You know what some people I was
demonstrating with some some handguns in that and they said
(20:08):
they didn't like the sights.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I said, that's easy to fix.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I said, you want night sights, you want trit you know,
you want to trit him, you want to day glow,
you know, the fiber optic. Take it over to the
gunsmith of Sportsman's Warehouse pretty much any gun. They can
put new sights on and or whatever is not quite
right with your gun. If you want some engraving, some customs,
Sarah cooding, colors, refinishing, just back to the original. Maybe
(20:34):
you want a what's the what's the bluing? That's a
matt the Matte colored bluing that you can get that
that looks really cool on some guns. Anyway, get over
to the gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse sixteen thirty South fifty
seventy West in Salt Lake, or you can give them
a call and I actually want to make sure that yeah,
it's ata won three zero four eighty seventy eight to
(20:56):
one three zero four eighty seventy or take your gun
in for whatever gunsmithing, customizing, fixing, adjusting that it needs
to any of the over one hundred and forty six
Sportsmen's warehouse locations. There's got to be one near you.
But literally, if you can't do that, you can mail
it in to them. Sixteen thirty South, thirty seventy west.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So all right, Bill, we're talking about number of rounds,
number of rounds.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
All right, So in all their concealed carry classes, your
tactical classes, and you're you know, when you take a consal,
got to carry your gun in the holster, and you've
got to have another holster that carries magazines at least
one two magazines. I've seen some three triple magazines that
(21:47):
people are carrying. Yeah, but for regular concealed carry regular
you know, you and me, we're not engaging when we
don't have to engage in stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Do you carry? Should we open it up? The phones?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I would the phone to tell our producer that we're
gonna open okay, So so producer, okay, so it uh
uh no, it's eight eight eight five seven eighty ten. Yeah,
that's amazing. I remember that eight eight eight five seven
o eighty ten. You can call and we want to
know do you carry an extra magazine or two? And
why you carry you carry a revolver, and do you
(22:23):
carry extras or extra AMMO in your pockets and why
because I am changing. Yes, Hey, I drill people tactically
on how to get that magazine, the empty magazine out,
get the new one in while it's dropping to the ground,
and you know, really quick, babam.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
But well, and some people will carry an extra magazine
just in case of a failure, okay, okay, and it's
part of the process. Just drop the magazine, grab another one.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Throw primarily there car carrying because they getting into getting
into a long into a big unifi. John Korea with
Active Self Defense, Active Self Protection that YouTube channel, I
think I remember him saying, and we need to get
him on. You try to contact him, but we need
to get him on. But he has said that the
(23:13):
number your gun whatever is in your gun when it
clears the leather, when you bring it out, when you
access and engage that weapon on target. That is what
you're going to do. You're going to do that engagement
with And so if you're carrying a five shot revolver
(23:33):
but you have an extra speedloader, doesn't matter. You're probably
only going to engage with those five rounds. Now you
may only use one round or two rounds. But he's
looked at all of these gunfights, including law enforcement, but
primarily looks at the you know what happens back and
forth on on regular folks, you know, concealed carry and
(23:58):
self defense. And he says, you know it's going to
be two or three shots. I think he went into
number of rounds. But it's whatever's in your gun, not
on your belt, and in your gun right that you're
gonna do it with. So I know Casey Jane goes
out at night with a thirty round magazine. Literally it's
a thirty round mag and it's in a handgun.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, I can believe that.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And it's got a laser and light on it.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And you know Casey Jane at ghost I manor, let's
be honest, she's hoping and waiting for the chance she
gets to blastom and she's doing it to protect the door.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Does that have a big loud speaker on it too.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It has a loudner. Yeah, it has a loudner. It
is pretty dang loud.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
But she's doing it to protect that, to protect the
dogs from mount lions.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
And but here's the follow up in your thought though.
In fact, John was just texting me right what he says?
He's like, yeah, he goes, I got spotty coverage. I said,
I'll follow up with you later and maybe we'll invite
him onto the show next week because as a follow up,
because I think this is is quite important. Because if
you are used to shooting a lot of rounds and
(25:02):
you're just let's say you've got a seventeen round pistol, Okay, oh, yes,
you're you're you're just gonna start shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting fire,
cover fire exactly. But maybe if I've got less rounds,
I'm going to be more accurate and more.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
When you're hunting with your muscle loader, yeah right, do
you do you take that into consideration?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
You have twelve mags?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, you take that into consideration. But think about the
military when we literally had flint locks and or musket
but single shot guns that took you know, I don't
know fifteen to thirty seconds to reload. Well, we're going
to be a lot more accurate. And I remember the
the NRA has said, and it's done studies that the
(25:48):
more rounds and the quicker you can reload anything from
you know, breach opening single shots, to self contained cartridges
to bolt action de lever action to semi autos, that
the round count went up and the accuracy went down.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Well what about law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, when we went from revolvers in the eighties to
semi automatics.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, and they're carrying these high capacity magazines. I mean,
you look at a shooting incident, whether they say, oh,
eighty five rounds were shot and only four of them
in No, actually.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Only one on that one. It was eighty six rounds.
It was in downtown New York. Yeah, and they hit
the guy once in the ankle, but eighty six shots
were fired.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I had a pull up from a few years ago.
But yeah, this might make you a little bit more proficient. Now.
I'm not saying a mag change is not appropriate and
necessary to train on. I think it is very valuable
to train on them. But as civilians, are we adding
one more element of failure on our part by having
(26:53):
to grab a magazine and throwing it in under a
high stress situation.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, but the.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Averages, the data shows we never do. Never an extra mag.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And I've never seen one, even on John Korea's films,
somebody grabbing an X. I've never seen anyone in a
self defensive mode grab another magazine. And that's what I
want to ask him out all the videos you've put
out there, and so my.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Point is, I think I think he's going to say,
even if they were carry an extra mag they're not
going to grab it. So my point is this, if
you're going to carry a seventeen round block or a
fifteen round sig or a five shot revolver, be able
to get it done, to get the job done in
the number of rounds that you have with you in
(27:45):
the gun when it clears a leather.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Now, I can't tell you the number of mag drops
I've seen with law enforcement, and it's usually because of
a squibload or something malfunction. Really yeah, and so they
drop the magazine, they grab another, and they're clearing out.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
How do they fix the squibload? That's what I want.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Some of them throw it in there and they don't realize, Oh,
it's a squib and then they look at it. Oh crap.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Well yeah, that's when you get.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
The blinders on, and it really kind of limits your
thought process.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
When we come back, we're going to talk about do
you have to notify law enforcement if you're stopped? And
what constitutes brandishing is that there's a lot of questions
that have come up and uh and folks, and that
regardless of whether you have a concealed carrier, you're just operating.
You're just carrying under permitless carry here in Utah or
some other state. When we come back on Gun Radio Utah,
(28:37):
so stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Protecting and preserving your constitution.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Thanksgivings coming up, and why don't you offer that family
member a membership in the Utah Shooting Sports Council. You
can actually go over to Utah Shooting Sports Council dot
org sign up and get email alerts and notifications on
all the great gun stuff that we're going to be
doing here in the next couple of months. And we got
(29:01):
we we actually have quite a big year. Clark, you
were talking about earlier in the show in regards to
numbers on your firearms, and it's a Utah related issue. Yeah,
you're looking at me as yell, right, but now you.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Just well, I just happened to be reviewing because this
is this code section is going to be changed in
the new recodification seventy six one. But I got looking
at it, and it's a it's an it's a little
very less used code section because it has to do
with altering the designation.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Essentially.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I think it's genesis was you can't change the serial
number on your gun. Hey, we've got Dave from Cash Valley,
So let's let's take Dave and then we'll also talk
about this that you want to bring Dave in.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Dave, are you there from Cash Valley?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
How are you hearing us up there in beautiful northern Utah?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, we're hearing you.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Just find on I.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Heart radio, Oh Heart on the app here. That's fantastic. So, so
what have you got for us day?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
You carry with extra magazines? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Well okay, so I started carrying and still occasionally do
with a peril ordinance p.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Twelve.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Are you familiar with that? Oh?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I know that double stack nineteen eleven.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Yeah, double stack nineteen eleven on my right, on my
about three o'clock position, and I finally decided and unless
I wanted to have back problems, I better counterbalance.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, magazine, that's a Now, that's a good that's a
good thought. Just don't go.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Balance is yeah, especially you know, shoulder holsters were originally
designed to kind of balance that weight too, all.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Right, and so yeah, so do you do you train
like that though? Do you train like that with quick
grabbing that that other mag.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Yeah? Well I was. I was a Federal flight deck
officer when I was a commercial pilot when I retired.
Before I retire, there's that old saying also though, that
you can never have too much ammunition unless you're on
fire or swimming.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
There you go. I have said that. Yeah, I have said, Hey,
here's a question for you, Dave. What ammo? What ammo?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
What? What bullet configuration did you use?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Did they did they require a specific type of ammunition
or uh, you know, a variety of on it.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
For an airplane?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, for for f F for FFH.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Yeah, Well, just before I retired, they transitioned to the
Glock nineteen, but we were using the HK USP Compact
in forty forty Smith and Wesson.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh what ammunition though? What specific?
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Yeah, it was it was Federal law Enforcement Hall of Point.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Oh that's gin wow.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
So nothing specific Air Marshals, No, No.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
In fact, I had a conversation with the air marshals.
What they were carrying was three fifty seven sig uh
spear law enforcement hallow Point and I said, well, that's
kind of an odd artridge for closed environment and they said, well,
it was a Treasury Department contract, That's how they got it.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, the three VT seven sig.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
For those that don't know, it's a really spunky nine
mil essentially, it's a it's a forty Smith and Wesson
neck down to nine mil essentially, right, Yes, yeah, I like.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
My son got really enamored with it. And but you know,
to try and get one nowadays you have to find
one on gun broker or you have to buy a
forty and then get a three fifty seven barrel.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Now you can get the three fifty seven sig barrels
all day long for it, you know, for yes, for that.
And I actually I do like the round, especially shooting steel.
Shooting steel with the three fifty seven sig smacks those things.
You can hit it on the edge or anything and
it smacks that that plate down, uh, so this is
(32:53):
this is interesting. So this comes from some of the training,
I know, the kind of training you had to go
through to be an FDO flight deck off, sir. And
uh so they they hammered into you. And you know
those those magazine changes.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, and you know, doing administrative changes
as well as emergency. We were constantly practicing those, just
to make sure we got that down. But yeah, it
was about well, in fact, the capacities of those magazines
were twelve rounds, and so we had thirty seven rounds
of ammunition with us at any time.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, so that so what was in the gun plus? Yeah,
but what do you think about? My thought? And I
think John Curry is going to back me up on
this unless and I may have gotten it from him,
is that you're going to end up using only what
is in the gun.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Well it's okay, great, but you know, can you, like
you say, can you really have too much ammunition?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Well no, I mean, don't ask me.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
My wife has thinks I can have too much ammo
honestly so, but but no, I like, I like the
idea of more amma. But what if you're absolutely relying
on that extra mag and it falls out of your
bag holder, or you don't have it, or you don't
have the it's too exigent a situation, too fast moving
(34:21):
a situation, uh to grab that.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And so I'm just it's just a fun.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
And what if your slide blocks back and you don't
have anything else to put in it?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, you have to fake it. You have to fake
it till you make it. Then yeah, pretend you pretend
you do a slide. All right, Hey, we've got to go. Dave,
appreciate your listening up there in beautiful Cash Valley.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Thank you. It's kind of funny how he brings up
the poor pair ordinance when we're looking at the Smith
and West are not Smith and West Springfield Eschelon, which
is another double spec.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, I have a pair of I have a pair
of P ten. Oh and it's the double stack ten ten.
But Parorence is out of they are a Canadian company.
Oh yeah, so what do we got? Oh we got
to go quick, all right, seventy six ten, five twenty one.
We were talking about, you know, the statute, but then
we had other stuff we didn't get to. No, so
(35:20):
I'll say it really quick before we went out of time. No,
you do not have to notify law enforcement if you
were stopped. H there used to be an administrative rule
that was inconsistent with existing state law that required you
to notify law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
That is up to you.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
If you choose to. But then the question is what
if they ask you are you carrying a gun?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Now?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
The United Utah Supreme Court ruled, I think it was
back in two thousand and six, that that's an improper
question for a regular administrative stop, a regular like a
traffic stop or something like that, because it delays the stop. Now,
I mean, yes, if they pull up your car for
a traffic violation, but then they see bullet holes with
blood leaking.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Out out of them and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, they're gonna ask you some other questions, and I
think it's probably appropriate. But can you what if you're
gonna answer. My advice is do so honestly if you're
gonna answer, But that is, if you're if you're gonna answer,
If it's an inappropriate question, maybe maybe you shouldn't answer.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
All right, We've got lots more to talk about next week.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, we'll reach out to John Korea and we'll see
if we can get him on for next week because
i'd love to get his take on a few of
those scenes.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I have a wonderful Thanksgiving everybody.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah, take care, have a great weekend.
So I think I think we're on Bill. Yeah, I
think Welcome to Gun Radio, Utah. Okay, thank yeah, I
had to push some buttons there, so welcome to Gun Radio, Utah.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I am Clark Opposion.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
That's kind of thank goodness that that was close.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, And he told me not to push buttons.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I am telling you not to push that's Bill.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Patterson and uh and welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We've got a great show for you today, real fantastic
interesting topics. I think for today's show, I'm not a
Ghost Di Maner. Casey Jane is holding down the fort
at Ghost di Manor right now. I have the dogs, Bill,
I have the puppies, yeah, the the attack puppies. Yeah,
the attack Aussies. And it's basically it's a vacation for
(00:48):
Casey Jane when I leave. Plus it's a double vacation.
It's like a luxury vacation when I take the dogs
with me. So it's interesting because the neighbor in Cottle
Heights has taken down the fence, our our joint fence,
and I told him, I said, you know, you put
it up and I'll.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Pay half whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
But the dogs think that they have now expanded their
backyard by by one hundred percent, so you.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Places to check out.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So anyway, yeah, so I had to tell you Bill,
it's been a busy week. I've been here since Tuesday.
I went to the ATF breakfast on Wednesday, meeting with
the ATF and a lot of f Fl's art for
Manian was there, and Sportsman's Warehouse was there, Matt, and
(01:37):
you know lots of cal Ranch, you know, all the
big EIA's from all the big gun places there. So
they well, it's basically it's an ask anything. Oh okay,
we can ask. We can ask them basically anything. And
we did and you know, kind of a you know,
he's not making you know, he can't tell us secret stuff.
(01:58):
I don't know if there is any secret stuff, but anyway,
we had some interesting conversations and I have my notes.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I had like a page of notes then.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Since I since I came out here, and I don't
I don't leave ghoste manner all that often about every
two weeks now, right, I try to combine all the
stuff we do.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So we did the ATF.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Then the next day, I you know Janelye Tobias, Yes,
she's the rich the gun gal, the original you know,
way back she was actually doing this before I was
in I think I started what eighty no, nineteen ninety
one or ninety two, something like that, ninety five officially
with USC. Anyway, she was going strong with women against
(02:40):
gun control, and so I ended up getting together with
one of her family members and I'm not going to
say who, and teaching them handgun stuff. So wait, I
just brought a massive different size you know, subcompact, compact,
(03:01):
full size guns.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I did.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Oh okay, actually I brought my pumpkin spice clock okay,
orange one. So and we learned all about guns and
then the next step will be to go shooting.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Then the next day.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You remember Charles Charles Hardy, Yeah, with gun of Utah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Fantastic guy.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
He was big, really really big and instrumental and a
lot of gun laws there. So his family members. So
went taught at a concealed carey class last night for them,
and it's it's been interesting. I don't know what it is.
I mean, Trump won. We should all be breathing a
sigh of relief, right. I am getting more calls for
(03:43):
people to get permits and family members and they're reaching out,
and the post, the postman. My postman reached out to
me and he says, are you the Clark of Potion
that that has the radio show and blah blah blah,
because I guess he kept looking at them.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I says, I am. It's pronounced the clerk opposition.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So and he says, well, I you know, what does
it take to get a concealed carry permit?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And oh blah blah. So I says, I'll take care
of you. You know, we'll take care of it. And
so him and his.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Wife three stamps for life, and I go to the
doctor from my regular complete blood count check or whatever, which,
by the way, I'm in the zero percentile for plaque
in my arteries.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
This zero. That's good, that zero percentile.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, So anyway, uh, he wants uh, he says, what
you know, just out of the blue, does it take
to get a concealed carr? I says, We'll take care
of that for you. So anyway, it's just like everywhere,
you should come to town more often, That's what I'm hearing. Yeah, anyway,
so we've got that and what else what I've got
(04:53):
on a Oh, we're Facebook live. By the way, if
you go to gun Radio Utah Facebook page. You can
actually see us, both of us on live live streaming
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So what have we got. We've got that.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Oh, I want to talk about something and I can't
remember when it was, but John Korea on what's the
name of his active self protection Active self Protection, he
really is super good at communicating his knowledge and his
information about gunfights. He's a expert witness, among other things.
(05:30):
He's written so many articles.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I think he calls it self based evidence learning, where
we can learn from what others did, whether they did
it right or wrong. We can learn to better ourselves
mentally up here.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's what he called it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Okay self, Yeah, just saying.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So I met him officially at gun rights Wallsey conference
a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And anyway, so we show a couple we had a
long time ago. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So anyway, we got to and not to be confused
with our good friend Larry Korea, monster hunter international author
who's also he wrote a fantastic book on the second
amend Anyway, So I want to talk about carrying extra magazines,
carrying speedloaders, carrying that. I want to talk about that,
(06:19):
and maybe in the next segment. So do you want
to talk about that absolutely. In fact, we were talking
about this as we're prepping. I actually was thinking about
this exact topic this past week on my l hunt
and how we you know, because with my rifle, I
only have three rounds in my rifle, and it's like,
(06:39):
should I go be buying more magazines? You know, and
can just make it so convenient and drop it and
pop on the way. That's that's why I carried an
AR ten fully exactly. Yeah, I've been a little heavier,
but I carried AR ten.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
But the principle was is, you know, do we need
extra magazine? So I got I got some thoughts I
want to share with you on So I can't wait
till we get to.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
That, Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And then there's some other questions on that came up
that come up a lot, and we take it for
granted because we deal with the codes that both the
state and the federal codes and that and is do
you have to inform law enforcement when you're pulled over
there you have a gun, You've got a gap? And
(07:22):
what about brandishing? What constitutes the Act in seventy six
ten five six of brandishing a firearm?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, that's there's a well.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Also, you have an article on the is it Trump
Derangement Syndra? Is this a a kind of a offshoot
of that.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, it is actually came from the NSSF article. I
believe it was this week National Shooting Sports Foundation Shoes
Sports Foundation regarding the true derangement of how governors want
to trump proof their citizens in and around the Second Amendment.
(08:09):
And we're going to talk about a few things and
how this could work for them and work against.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Does this involve wearing plastic bags over their head pretty
much masking up and that kind of stuff? All right,
tell you So we've got that and more. We got
dumb dumb gun mishaps. Yeah, I've got like three of
them that are Those will be fun somewhat awkward to
talk about when we come back on Gun Radio, Utah,
stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Glad to have you with us on that. I can't
call it Thanksgiving Eve yet because we've got a few days,
but we were going to talk about a few things
regarding Thanksgiving and how you can prepare to go to Thanksgiving,
whether you're going to Red Thanksgiving or a Blue Thanksgiving.
(08:58):
And I'm not talking about BYU or you to fans.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
That actually could be that too, though.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It could be and it happens, it's kind of switched
maybe a little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, but yeah, well, hopefully you will give you some insight,
you'll pick up on some things that you can share
at the Thanksgiving dinner. But we were going to talk
about one of the topics here, Clark, trump proofing states.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh is that what we're talking about? Okay, trump proofing States?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, I'm going to save the magazine one third.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Ye, okay, all right, that's good.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
So n s F n s s F. That is
a tongue twister.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
National Shooting Sports Foundation, yep.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I should just call it. That came out with an
article this week basically government states, governors within states want
to Trump proof. There's states in and regarding around the
Second Amendment. And you have to go back and look
(10:02):
at the top five states that were swing states that
swung more toward President Truck. Everybody did, everyone did.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
California had forty vote for Trump, which is unheard of.
Now that's huge, and I think I think every state,
even the every state increased its percentage.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
And and if you look at the red map, yeah,
if you look at the red map. It's like, holy cow. Yeah,
it's it's like you got it. I mean, I don't
remember that. I mean I was a lot younger than
but Reagan days.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Every single swing state was one Trump.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So my message to Gavin Newsom and the governor of
Washington and Oregon and New New York and New York is,
read the room, stop throwing tantrums.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Put them And so you've already so what are they
what are they planning on doing? Bill? What what was
in that.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Ns So they want they're calling it the Trump proof
their states And basically Governor Newsom, even though he proclaims
that his state has the they're number one in gun control.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Get this.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Last year, they were number one in active shooter incidents.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
To me, California looks more like number two. But anyway,
exactly exactly. And then you go and you look at
the city of Los Angeles. Their city council just cut
one hundred and fifty million dollars from the police budget,
basically telling law enforcement, Tell the citizens be good victims
if you find yourselves being attacked. Okay, San Francisco, San
(11:47):
Francisco huge, Okay, hometown, your hometown, my hometown, but across
the Bay, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
George Soros funded on District Attorney Chelsea Boudin. They gave
her the boot. I mean they and that is interesting,
that is huge. Yeah, because they're tired of.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Criminals committing crimes being arrested at the cops do their job,
they get arrested, and then they.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Proposition thirty six, which would reinstitute tougher crime penalties or
tougher penalties on these crimes. Overwhelmingly landslide seventy percent of
the vote.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But my point is in California and all these states,
they have existing laws, existing penalties that they.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Just aren't well, they're just ignoring them. And then you've
got George Gastone rejected he didn't win.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh really well, I mean it's like in New York.
This was back a week ago. It was an illegal
immigrant in NYPD with a loaded AR fifteen is back
on the streets after him and another illegal immigrant ganged
(13:03):
up on some NYPD cops at a Bronx subway station.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
They nabbed him.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
He was relieving himself inside the subway station while while
lugging the AR fifteen in his backpack, and he got
into a scuffle with NYPD. They arrested him, they did
their job, and then unfortunately cops have to just kind
of it give him into the system. He lives above
(13:32):
a daycare center in the Bronx. They let him out
on bond, which he promised to show back up.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
This goes back to my theory or the discussion we
had just a couple of weeks ago. We had a
great victory. We should be proud of this victory, but
of all things, we cannot let our guard down. Now
we've got incidences like what you just mentioned. We've got
things where they're looking to trump prove the states regarding
(14:01):
Second Amendment. And then we've got I mean, they're absolutely
going out saying, hey, we're gonna make our state, We're
gonna make our cities sanctuary cities for illegal immigration. So
they can't get these third point four million points of
the state.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
If they want to do that, okay, the to the
degree they can legally do that, to the same degree
we take away federal money from them, exactly, So you
want to do that, that's fine, to the degree they can,
because in some cases they're literally violating federal law by
allowing illegals in there, and and other criminals, but we
(14:40):
take away.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Federal funds from that, twenty is going to be awesome.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, we've got about two years to get this done
because a lot of times we flip those the House
and the Senate, sometimes on the midterm elections, and.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
So we've also got Did you have anything more on that?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
No, it's just the chaos, the bed wedding that still
continues on and and I'm fine if you're a sore loser,
you're sore losers. Now I can see why some of
these big cities, when a baseball team or a hockey
team or football team wins a championship, why the people
destroy the city whether they win. Yeah, yeah, exactly, they
(15:20):
just they it's it's just chaos. It's like, I'm so glad, thankful.
There's a good term to use right now. Thankful we
have some great freedoms and great leadership here in Utah.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, which there was some talk about.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Uh, you did bring it up. Huh you're going.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
In the Senate. Yeah, in the Senate. And he's not
sworn in yet though, I mean he's he's elected. But anyway,
we're watching that very closely.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well. Anyway, I make we may, we may dive into
that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So the the White House Office under Biden, I don't know.
It was a year ago, a year and a half ago,
came up with the Office of Executive bed Wedding and
hand Ringing, Okay, and so they the White House Office
of Gun Violence Prevention. Yeah, and it was so it
(16:14):
was being headed by the Vice President. The gun controls
are oh Kamala HERM Cambell. And so what happens to
that office? So obviously they're not going to show up
for work on January twentieth, right.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, they're already laying off people left and right now
in Washington right now, of course.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
But should so my question is so, so NSSF Lawrence Keene,
he's the Senior Vice President General Counsel. Great guy, by
the way, he says they should just disband disband that office.
I say, keep the office, but rename it, repurpose it,
(17:01):
and staff it. I think they should staff it with
I think John Lott should be the new you know,
I think John Lott should be doctor. John Lott should
be in there.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So the White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention, because
what it did was it's a government funded effort to
infringe upon constitutional rights, specifically the Second Amendment.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
So well, heck you and I can go there and
fulfill this job. I mean we could, you know, hire
a bunch of people in each state and make this
thing rock and roll. Yeah. I like your idea. Let's
keep the office around because yeah, let's make it to
do good.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Because it's Lawrence Keene says, this office installed under President
Joe Biden never addressed the criminal issues of firearms. Yeah,
gun violence prevention. And they never addressed the actual cause.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
And and then who did they employ the same people
that have done nothing but obfiscate exist good existing gun law,
you know, or or penalties and that type of stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
They were gun control lobbyists. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
And and the boss was the borders are too.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah she did she did as good with with uh
with violence perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
How do you.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Get a job and you've got responsibilities, show up and
I'm not gonna do anything today. Uh take this day
off and that's not important.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I mean they literally populated that office with with gun
gun control lobbyists that work for Bloomberg and Saurus. I
don't know about Saurus, but anyway, I say we ought to.
I honestly think John Lott would be great. All right,
So we are at the bottom and if you want
to if you want to watch us live, go to
(18:51):
Gun Radio Utah Facebook page.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Ye, you can see us in studios here and there's uh,
there's there's several people on there right now. So I'm
gonna get caught up on this magazine on the net.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You're you're really going to do that? All right when
we come back on Gun Radio Utah, stay tuned. Bill
Petterson sitting right across from me looking at a magazine.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I did, and we had a great conversation with our.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and it's the NSSF magazine too.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Uh so anyway, if you're if you're not familiar with NSSF,
they are.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
They're kind of like the n ra A only for
the industry, for the industry.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, so the industry like gun stores, gun manufacturers, anybody that.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Has anything to do with guns.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And I's Hunting Shot Show is uh the best trade
association show Evering up?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Quick coming up?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, January actually starts the very week the legislature starts.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So now I'm really going to be torn.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
No, we'll just set up a studio in the room
and and uh, and just do it remotely.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And do the Uh, yeah we do the committee calls.
Yeah we've done that before. But anyway, we've got that
huge bill this year. Yeah all right, So speaking of guns,
uh is your gun broken bill? Any broken guns? I
don't actually have. You know what some people I was
demonstrating with some some handguns in that and they said
(20:08):
they didn't like the sights.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I said, that's easy to fix.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I said, you want night sights, you want trit you know,
you want to trit him, you want to day glow,
you know, the fiber optic. Take it over to the
gunsmith of Sportsman's Warehouse pretty much any gun. They can
put new sights on and or whatever is not quite
right with your gun. If you want some engraving, some customs,
Sarah cooding, colors, refinishing, just back to the original. Maybe
(20:34):
you want a what's the what's the bluing? That's a
matt the Matte colored bluing that you can get that
that looks really cool on some guns. Anyway, get over
to the gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse sixteen thirty South fifty
seventy West in Salt Lake, or you can give them
a call and I actually want to make sure that yeah,
it's ata won three zero four eighty seventy eight to
(20:56):
one three zero four eighty seventy or take your gun
in for whatever gunsmithing, customizing, fixing, adjusting that it needs
to any of the over one hundred and forty six
Sportsmen's warehouse locations. There's got to be one near you.
But literally, if you can't do that, you can mail
it in to them. Sixteen thirty South, thirty seventy west.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So all right, Bill, we're talking about number of rounds,
number of rounds.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
All right, So in all their concealed carry classes, your
tactical classes, and you're you know, when you take a consal,
got to carry your gun in the holster, and you've
got to have another holster that carries magazines at least
one two magazines. I've seen some three triple magazines that
(21:47):
people are carrying. Yeah, but for regular concealed carry regular
you know, you and me, we're not engaging when we
don't have to engage in stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Do you carry? Should we open it up? The phones?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I would the phone to tell our producer that we're
gonna open okay, So so producer, okay, so it uh
uh no, it's eight eight eight five seven eighty ten. Yeah,
that's amazing. I remember that eight eight eight five seven
o eighty ten. You can call and we want to
know do you carry an extra magazine or two? And
why you carry you carry a revolver, and do you
(22:23):
carry extras or extra AMMO in your pockets and why
because I am changing. Yes, Hey, I drill people tactically
on how to get that magazine, the empty magazine out,
get the new one in while it's dropping to the ground,
and you know, really quick, babam.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
But well, and some people will carry an extra magazine
just in case of a failure, okay, okay, and it's
part of the process. Just drop the magazine, grab another one.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Throw primarily there car carrying because they getting into getting
into a long into a big unifi. John Korea with
Active Self Defense, Active Self Protection that YouTube channel, I
think I remember him saying, and we need to get
him on. You try to contact him, but we need
to get him on. But he has said that the
(23:13):
number your gun whatever is in your gun when it
clears the leather, when you bring it out, when you
access and engage that weapon on target. That is what
you're going to do. You're going to do that engagement
with And so if you're carrying a five shot revolver
(23:33):
but you have an extra speedloader, doesn't matter. You're probably
only going to engage with those five rounds. Now you
may only use one round or two rounds. But he's
looked at all of these gunfights, including law enforcement, but
primarily looks at the you know what happens back and
forth on on regular folks, you know, concealed carry and
(23:58):
self defense. And he says, you know it's going to
be two or three shots. I think he went into
number of rounds. But it's whatever's in your gun, not
on your belt, and in your gun right that you're
gonna do it with. So I know Casey Jane goes
out at night with a thirty round magazine. Literally it's
a thirty round mag and it's in a handgun.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, I can believe that.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And it's got a laser and light on it.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And you know Casey Jane at ghost I manor, let's
be honest, she's hoping and waiting for the chance she
gets to blastom and she's doing it to protect the door.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Does that have a big loud speaker on it too.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It has a loudner. Yeah, it has a loudner. It
is pretty dang loud.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
But she's doing it to protect that, to protect the
dogs from mount lions.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
And but here's the follow up in your thought though.
In fact, John was just texting me right what he says?
He's like, yeah, he goes, I got spotty coverage. I said,
I'll follow up with you later and maybe we'll invite
him onto the show next week because as a follow up,
because I think this is is quite important. Because if
you are used to shooting a lot of rounds and
(25:02):
you're just let's say you've got a seventeen round pistol, Okay, oh, yes,
you're you're you're just gonna start shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting fire,
cover fire exactly. But maybe if I've got less rounds,
I'm going to be more accurate and more.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
When you're hunting with your muscle loader, yeah right, do
you do you take that into consideration?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
You have twelve mags?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, you take that into consideration. But think about the
military when we literally had flint locks and or musket
but single shot guns that took you know, I don't
know fifteen to thirty seconds to reload. Well, we're going
to be a lot more accurate. And I remember the
the NRA has said, and it's done studies that the
(25:48):
more rounds and the quicker you can reload anything from
you know, breach opening single shots, to self contained cartridges
to bolt action de lever action to semi autos, that
the round count went up and the accuracy went down.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Well what about law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, when we went from revolvers in the eighties to
semi automatics.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, and they're carrying these high capacity magazines. I mean,
you look at a shooting incident, whether they say, oh,
eighty five rounds were shot and only four of them
in No, actually.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Only one on that one. It was eighty six rounds.
It was in downtown New York. Yeah, and they hit
the guy once in the ankle, but eighty six shots
were fired.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I had a pull up from a few years ago.
But yeah, this might make you a little bit more proficient. Now.
I'm not saying a mag change is not appropriate and
necessary to train on. I think it is very valuable
to train on them. But as civilians, are we adding
one more element of failure on our part by having
(26:53):
to grab a magazine and throwing it in under a
high stress situation.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, but the.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Averages, the data shows we never do. Never an extra mag.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And I've never seen one, even on John Korea's films,
somebody grabbing an X. I've never seen anyone in a
self defensive mode grab another magazine. And that's what I
want to ask him out all the videos you've put
out there, and so my.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Point is, I think I think he's going to say,
even if they were carry an extra mag they're not
going to grab it. So my point is this, if
you're going to carry a seventeen round block or a
fifteen round sig or a five shot revolver, be able
to get it done, to get the job done in
the number of rounds that you have with you in
(27:45):
the gun when it clears a leather.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Now, I can't tell you the number of mag drops
I've seen with law enforcement, and it's usually because of
a squibload or something malfunction. Really yeah, and so they
drop the magazine, they grab another, and they're clearing out.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
How do they fix the squibload? That's what I want.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Some of them throw it in there and they don't realize, Oh,
it's a squib and then they look at it. Oh crap.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Well yeah, that's when you get.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
The blinders on, and it really kind of limits your
thought process.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
When we come back, we're going to talk about do
you have to notify law enforcement if you're stopped? And
what constitutes brandishing is that there's a lot of questions
that have come up and uh and folks, and that
regardless of whether you have a concealed carrier, you're just operating.
You're just carrying under permitless carry here in Utah or
some other state. When we come back on Gun Radio Utah,
(28:37):
so stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Protecting and preserving your constitution.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Thanksgivings coming up, and why don't you offer that family
member a membership in the Utah Shooting Sports Council. You
can actually go over to Utah Shooting Sports Council dot
org sign up and get email alerts and notifications on
all the great gun stuff that we're going to be
doing here in the next couple of months. And we got
(29:01):
we we actually have quite a big year. Clark, you
were talking about earlier in the show in regards to
numbers on your firearms, and it's a Utah related issue. Yeah,
you're looking at me as yell, right, but now you.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Just well, I just happened to be reviewing because this
is this code section is going to be changed in
the new recodification seventy six one. But I got looking
at it, and it's a it's an it's a little
very less used code section because it has to do
with altering the designation.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Essentially.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I think it's genesis was you can't change the serial
number on your gun. Hey, we've got Dave from Cash Valley,
So let's let's take Dave and then we'll also talk
about this that you want to bring Dave in.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Dave, are you there from Cash Valley?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
How are you hearing us up there in beautiful northern Utah?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, we're hearing you.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Just find on I.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Heart radio, Oh Heart on the app here. That's fantastic. So, so
what have you got for us day?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
You carry with extra magazines? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Well okay, so I started carrying and still occasionally do
with a peril ordinance p.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Twelve.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Are you familiar with that? Oh?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I know that double stack nineteen eleven.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Yeah, double stack nineteen eleven on my right, on my
about three o'clock position, and I finally decided and unless
I wanted to have back problems, I better counterbalance.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, magazine, that's a Now, that's a good that's a
good thought. Just don't go.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Balance is yeah, especially you know, shoulder holsters were originally
designed to kind of balance that weight too, all.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Right, and so yeah, so do you do you train
like that though? Do you train like that with quick
grabbing that that other mag.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Yeah? Well I was. I was a Federal flight deck
officer when I was a commercial pilot when I retired.
Before I retire, there's that old saying also though, that
you can never have too much ammunition unless you're on
fire or swimming.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
There you go. I have said that. Yeah, I have said, Hey,
here's a question for you, Dave. What ammo? What ammo?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
What? What bullet configuration did you use?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Did they did they require a specific type of ammunition
or uh, you know, a variety of on it.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
For an airplane?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, for for f F for FFH.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Yeah, Well, just before I retired, they transitioned to the
Glock nineteen, but we were using the HK USP Compact
in forty forty Smith and Wesson.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh what ammunition though? What specific?
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Yeah, it was it was Federal law Enforcement Hall of Point.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Oh that's gin wow.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
So nothing specific Air Marshals, No, No.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
In fact, I had a conversation with the air marshals.
What they were carrying was three fifty seven sig uh
spear law enforcement hallow Point and I said, well, that's
kind of an odd artridge for closed environment and they said, well,
it was a Treasury Department contract, That's how they got it.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, the three VT seven sig.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
For those that don't know, it's a really spunky nine
mil essentially, it's a it's a forty Smith and Wesson
neck down to nine mil essentially, right, Yes, yeah, I like.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
My son got really enamored with it. And but you know,
to try and get one nowadays you have to find
one on gun broker or you have to buy a
forty and then get a three fifty seven barrel.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Now you can get the three fifty seven sig barrels
all day long for it, you know, for yes, for that.
And I actually I do like the round, especially shooting steel.
Shooting steel with the three fifty seven sig smacks those things.
You can hit it on the edge or anything and
it smacks that that plate down, uh, so this is
(32:53):
this is interesting. So this comes from some of the training,
I know, the kind of training you had to go
through to be an FDO flight deck off, sir. And
uh so they they hammered into you. And you know
those those magazine changes.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, and you know, doing administrative changes
as well as emergency. We were constantly practicing those, just
to make sure we got that down. But yeah, it
was about well, in fact, the capacities of those magazines
were twelve rounds, and so we had thirty seven rounds
of ammunition with us at any time.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, so that so what was in the gun plus? Yeah,
but what do you think about? My thought? And I
think John Curry is going to back me up on
this unless and I may have gotten it from him,
is that you're going to end up using only what
is in the gun.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Well it's okay, great, but you know, can you, like
you say, can you really have too much ammunition?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Well no, I mean, don't ask me.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
My wife has thinks I can have too much ammo
honestly so, but but no, I like, I like the
idea of more amma. But what if you're absolutely relying
on that extra mag and it falls out of your
bag holder, or you don't have it, or you don't
have the it's too exigent a situation, too fast moving
(34:21):
a situation, uh to grab that.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And so I'm just it's just a fun.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
And what if your slide blocks back and you don't
have anything else to put in it?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, you have to fake it. You have to fake
it till you make it. Then yeah, pretend you pretend
you do a slide. All right, Hey, we've got to go. Dave,
appreciate your listening up there in beautiful Cash Valley.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Thank you. It's kind of funny how he brings up
the poor pair ordinance when we're looking at the Smith
and West are not Smith and West Springfield Eschelon, which
is another double spec.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, I have a pair of I have a pair
of P ten. Oh and it's the double stack ten ten.
But Parorence is out of they are a Canadian company.
Oh yeah, so what do we got? Oh we got
to go quick, all right, seventy six ten, five twenty one.
We were talking about, you know, the statute, but then
we had other stuff we didn't get to. No, so
(35:20):
I'll say it really quick before we went out of time. No,
you do not have to notify law enforcement if you
were stopped. H there used to be an administrative rule
that was inconsistent with existing state law that required you
to notify law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
That is up to you.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
If you choose to. But then the question is what
if they ask you are you carrying a gun?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Now?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
The United Utah Supreme Court ruled, I think it was
back in two thousand and six, that that's an improper
question for a regular administrative stop, a regular like a
traffic stop or something like that, because it delays the stop. Now,
I mean, yes, if they pull up your car for
a traffic violation, but then they see bullet holes with
blood leaking.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Out out of them and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yeah, they're gonna ask you some other questions, and I
think it's probably appropriate. But can you what if you're
gonna answer. My advice is do so honestly if you're
gonna answer, But that is, if you're if you're gonna answer,
If it's an inappropriate question, maybe maybe you shouldn't answer.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
All right, We've got lots more to talk about next week.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, we'll reach out to John Korea and we'll see
if we can get him on for next week because
i'd love to get his take on a few of
those scenes.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I have a wonderful Thanksgiving everybody.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah, take care, have a great weekend.
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