Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today, I should probably warn you that it could be
a trigger for some of those folks that perhaps maybe
aren't friends of the gun. It could be a trigger.
This could be uh, it could be triggering, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I love that. That's a good thing, because we've got
a We've got a heck of a show.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We've got a guest, Jim Molder, is going to be
coming on here in a little bit to talk about
n FA firearms and an interesting aspect of that. We're
going to talk about, uh, some of the real life
aspects of a red flag law uh in New Jersey.
We're going to talk about an assault weapon ban that
was just struck down by a federal judge. Fantastic and uh,
(00:38):
you know, but before we do that, I just have
to We've got to go this. I just you know,
how long I've been waiting to play that. I don't know,
four years or more, something like that. And because unless
you've been living under a rock and deep under a
rock with your fingers in your ears, you you would
know that Donald Trump was just elected for his second
(01:04):
non consecutive term, forty seventh president of the United States.
And so we got looking at oh, in fact, you
know what hang on, I gotta I gotta do a
little thing here. Let's see and through the magic of
telephones and phones and all that, we're just going to
bring that upright there, Bill, are you there?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I am a fantastic listening to you on my starlink.
The the iHeartMedia app soon gave you a starlink, did he?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I think it's.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Elon's a good guy. I'll tell you. He came up
with some pretty neat stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
After the swearing in of Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I think everyone gets starlinks, don't they? You know, because
upon I gave out free phones, and Elon's going to
give out starlinks.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think, yeah, I think I think every Republican that
voted or anyone that voted for Trump should get a
free starlink.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That's just my well, Bill, you sound fantastic. You are?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
What are you doing? Tell thee Tell the listeners to
gun Radio Utahwaan.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I am facing the west in a chair about ninety
five hundred feet in elevation, in a foot of new
snow that we got, but the sun has come out
and I am just baking like a snake on a
rock and it feels good up here.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
What are you doing here? What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, we're up here hunting elk oh no. So, yeah,
we're doing the last hunt for the year and we're
in Colorado doing an outcome and it.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Is this a rifle? Is this a rifle out? It is? Okay, well, fantastic,
Good luck to you out there. I am.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So you're broadcasting from our from our Colorado location, I'm
broadcasting live from Ghost Die Manor and beautiful U went
to county and so I was thinking, you know, there's
a lot of folks that have been triggered, and I
want to kind of maybe in my attempt, in our
(03:03):
attempt to put to rest some of the things that
are likely to happen. So is Donald Trump really going
to when he comes into offices, you're really gonna arm everyone?
Is he going to deport entire families? Is he going
to have a complete ban on abortions? Is he going
(03:24):
to start World War three? Is he going to put
in prison all of his detractors? And will Liz Cheney
face a firing squad? Probably yes, I would probably say yes,
those are all accurate, Those are most assuredly those things
are going to happen. But the other question is is
(03:44):
Donald Trump perfect. Yes, I think he is actually, yeah,
And this comes from someone who sued him in his
administration and I was wrong to do it. So I'm
just just want to put those things out there. Anyways, Hey, Bill, uh,
last was it Wednesday? Or it was last Wednesday? Right
this last Wednesday?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Last Wednesday. Yeah, I gotta congratulate you and and eat
some crow for all of our listening listeners out there.
Clark and I made a trip to the ATF and
we retrieved his We retrieved your bump stock.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Which is now going to be called the trump stock,
and I'm gonna call it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm gonna call a trump stock because we did it
on the day after the election took place. So it's
now called the trump stock, and I have it. It
was in perfect condition, along with the box and all
the parts, the Folato switch, the lever that makes it
go fallatto just by basically just click it on and
(04:46):
put the gun down and it'll go fall otto at
that point, and all of that stuff. And it was
interesting because we went there, the media was there, yeah,
And we got into the little i don't know if
you want to call it a lobby, the little reception area,
and two of the ATF agents that I'd been dealing with,
at least one of them said, you know, I said, okay,
(05:09):
well let's go back there, and he says, well, we
have something for you to sign.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And it was just a receipt of property and so.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, I motioned to you and to the media and
he says, oh, well, they can't come in, and let
me tell you. It was an extremely boring hallway, an
extremely boring conference room that wouldn't have done wouldn't have released,
you know, state secrets at all. But anyway, so we
took pictures of it. They wouldn't let me keep the
(05:38):
evidence bag, but I took pictures of the evidence bag.
And I have the I have the trump Stock back
where it belongs. I have to keep a close eye
on it though, because well it can just do stuff
on its own. Really, I don't even want to get
it close to it.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
How did when you were reading I did with your
trump Stock? How was that emotional reunion between you and
the trump Stock? I mean, I got to imagine there
was some just some tears and some just you know,
just some long hugs. And five and a half years,
I'm sure you had some pretty deep.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, it was a private moment. It was a private
moment that I won't I won't probably share.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Private, So you know, I said to the two ATF agents,
I said, I says, can you can you give me
some time alone here? And so anyway, they did ask.
They did ask because we were wearing our Utah Shooting
Sports Console shirts and they said, well, what's gun Radio Utah?
And since they asked, I told them all about it.
(06:47):
And I said, you may not want to listen though,
because and I said, just last week we kind of
gave the the sac for the at F out of Michigan.
I think it was some grief saying that glock switches
increase the rate of fire to twelve thousand rounds a minute.
And they looked and they said twelve. I said, yeah,
(07:10):
twelve thousand. So anyway, that's what he had stated. Anyway, Bill,
I'm so glad that you're able to join us from
the Rocky Mountains. And so we're going to have Jim
Older on in the next segment, and we're going to
be talking about something that you and I have talked about,
(07:30):
and that is if you have an NFA item that
would include machine guns, suppressors, short barreled rifles, short bled shotguns,
destructive devices, those kind of things, and you have to
keep It's not a permit, it's not a license. It's
essentially a tax stamp that is placed on your registration
(07:52):
paperwork that you have to have with you anywhere the
gun goes. So if you take your gun out shooting
to the range, you have to have that paper work
with you, and it can be you obviously don't want to.
I mean people are somewhat apprehensive about carrying the actual
paperwork because it literally is a stamp like a lickham
(08:15):
stickham stamp that will either say five dollars or two
hundred dollars, depending on what the transfer is, and people
are a little apprehensive about carrying those the actual cop
you know, the actual documents. And we had talked about
this because you're acquiring some more. I don't think that's
(08:37):
a big secret, and we all are. So we're gonna
bring Jim Older on because some people have taken to
putting these tax stamps or fact similes of them on
their phones. So when we come back on gun Radio,
Utah Bill, you're gonna stay with us. We're gonna have
Jim olderon we're going to talk about you know, is
that a good idea or not? So stay tuned. Will
(08:59):
be right back and.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I am enjoying the sun right now, and we're just
brought to you. We're we're actually broadcasting live over startling
up here in ELK Camp. And I'll tell you, Clark,
if it wasn't for Starlink, I don't know what I'd
do missing the by U Utah game.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
But I think we're going to have a good time
tonight on that.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
But big thanks to Elon, Big thanks to Elon.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Yeah, I think Elon.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And with with that, we've got Jim Alder also with
this with the Older Law Group.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Jim. Welcome to a Gun Radio Utah. Thanks Belle.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Okay, yeah, so Jim, I asked you to come on
today because there's, uh, I know a lot of people
that don't want to carry their actual tax stamps and
their their basic their NFA type paperwork if you will,
the registration and for their NFA items. So they don't
want to carry the actual copies, so they make a
(09:58):
photocopy or a picture and they put it on their
phone thinking that hey, if law enforcement shows up and
wants to see this, if you know if somebody that
I would have, I would imagine the ATF and the
IRS or.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
The two people that could legally see it. I don't
know I have a thought on that, But is that
a good idea?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
What are some of the things because we use our
phones for everything now digital IDs, and there was even
some talk a few years ago in Utah about putting
your constialed Curry permit on your phone, having it digitally there.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I specifically advise my clients so when I'm setting up
gun trusts for them, you know, I show them what
I do typically that I like to shrink mine down
fifty percent.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
I laminate that.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I just keep that hard copy in my gun bag
under the phone on my gun case, you know. So
I've got a hard copy on me. I do have
scans on my phone. But my concern is is I
am not going to be supplying my phone to law
enforcement if somebody's hurt with my weapons, for instance, you know,
(11:00):
and they're looking at me a little curiously, you know,
kind of squinty eyed.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
I'm not going to.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Produce my phone and unlock it for him, because the
Supreme Court is said I have no duty to do
so unless I'm presented with a warrant. They have to
get a warrant to look at my phone, so I'm
not going to open it for him voluntarily. Okay, they
want interesting cans, I'm going to show them a hard
copy right that way.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They only have access to that, and that's it. Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yes, So with that said, Jim, my question to you
is who is authorized to see that? Clark mentioned the
ATF and the text attorneys or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I mean, the IRN because it is literally a tax stamp,
I would imagine.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yeah, well, actually, you know, this is a this is
a subject of a lot of debate, a lot of argument.
But you know, Todd Rafner, he.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Just I was just on the phone with Todd yesterday literally, so.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, yeah, he and I have advocated innumber of different
arenas that any federal law enforcement officer has that right
to demand it because they can enforce federal law.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
The stamp itself is just proof the taxes has been paid.
But the document is your registration paperwork, and they can
verify registration.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Now, I actually have had a client that had a
US marshall approach them out there at Loan Rock, West
of Grandsville and demand to see their paperwork. I'm not
going to argue with that guy. Okay, Now the bigger
question is can local law enforcement ask But the fact is,
in virtually every state but Utah, state authorities have authority
(12:40):
to verify registration because almost every state where these weapons
are legal, their code says these weapons are legal if
registered as required under the NFA, or they are illegal
unless registered as required under the NFA, so they can
they have state authority to verify. Utah's like one of
only two states that does not have that specific language.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And we change we actually it was it had come
up because people wanted for us to be in compliance
like or in cooperation with other states. And I remember
this it was probably eight years ago, and we said no,
there was no requirement that we put that in statute.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Now, yeah, we we have a reference er too to
some of the weapons in our code, right, but nothing
specific of that nature. So we don't have express authority.
But I always tell clients, look, you want do you
want to be? The test case is what does some
of these references mean and whether local law enforcement can
(13:39):
verify your registration?
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Can you afford that? Do you want to be that
test case.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Do you want to spend some time trying to get
your weapon back, you know, take a ride downtown for
being obstinate or whatnot. And so my view is, if
I'm asked, I'm probably gonna just say, yeah, here you
go and get them out of my hair, because you know,
I don't want them to have my weapon.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
Confiscated to try and show off. You know, I'm a cop.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
You don't know what you're talking about, So deal with
any of that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So you had mentioned your clients.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I know that you that your NFA trust, if you will,
as an entity, has been reviewed very critically and and
come out on top, literally on top of other NFA
type trusts because it fits all the bills they're necessary it.
(14:29):
How do people get a hold of you if they
want to create a trust that is going to be
rock solid, ironclad.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Well, our website is Utah Trust Attorneys dot com. That's
our website, and you can even use utahgun Trust dot
com and I'll take you right to the gun trust
pages of our website. But we do have our intake
forms that are on the website, a bunch of information
about the couple of different levels that we offer and
(14:59):
and people can give us a call at eight oh
one four six three twenty six hundred and we can
walk you through it, answer all the questions you need
about what level you want to do and what's you know,
how it all works, and you know, get you set
up and get you going, get your documents to the
dealer that you're working with too, in most every case
(15:19):
as well.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, Now, Bill, you had a question because a lot
of our especially if we do it electronically and we're
doing it not through a trust, that some of our
paperwork comes back a lot of times through email.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Is that right? I mean right, Bill?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So yeah, so as they show up as an email,
we don't have that golden, licky sticky stamp on our paperwork. Now,
it's just an image and there's really a digital signature
at the bottom.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
Now, And so.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
What are you advising your clients to do on a
situation like that? I would imagine still make a copy,
laminate it and that.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
But if it's in.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Our email, I don't want to you know, if I
keep it on my phone, I don't want to expose
my email information to.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Well, well, Bill, you'd be exposing not just your email,
but think of all of the things that are on
your phone that we I mean, we barely use our
phones for phones anymore. It's everything else and all those
documents that that you have and even access to the
cloud probably that you do through your phone, that you're
now opening up and handing over to someone who may
(16:31):
not have your best interest at heart.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Yeah, that's my concern, and that's why I always have
a hard copy with me, just you know, in case
they're looking at me suspiciously, They're not going to be
looking at my phone exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
All right, Well, this is this is this is very
good information. So so basically you can go ahead and
it correct me if I'm wrong, Jim, But you can
go ahead and keep these electronic copies on your phone
own or whatever you want. But that's just for you
to use if you ever want to print them out
or access them. But when it comes time to actually
(17:09):
showing a federal LA enforcement officer or whoever that is
required to look at those, that you do so with
a hard copy. That way it limits their ability to
look at your private stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yeah, exactly, that's what I advise. You know, up to
the client what risks they want to undertake. But that's
exactly what I advise.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay, all right, fantastic, all right? So do you are
you hoping for it? And I didn't ask you about
this ahead of time, but Jim, are you hoping for
any changes? I know we just had the new ICE
the person who is likely to be confirmed as the
new ICE director. Any any thoughts on a new ATF
(17:51):
director and any changes that you think or hope will
occur in the new administration.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
You know, I'd love to see, uh some nice gun
friendly types that would be That would be great.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
I did see a post the other day that.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Somebody said, uh, Joshua Prince out of Pennsylvania should be
appointed to the ATF, and he said, that's one of
the jobs I would actually consider.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You know, I'm waiting, Jim, I'm waiting for a call
to be the guns are for this new administration, and
I you know, I would accept that, begrudgingly, have to
move to d C, but I would accept that guns
are because I just want to put on my door
guns are us, So anyway, that's that's what I would
(18:37):
put on my door. So anyway, and we should be
back online now, I don't know, maybe uh can Mark
can Mark tell us if we're back online. There were
I think we're back online now. I just saw the
so hey, that is the that's some of the problems
that we have when we when we are so remote
(18:57):
in boastically Uenta County and Callo and I think a.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Big shout out though part before we wrap up this
segment to Darren Barnhei is at Ready five G for
sponsoring this starlink system here up on the mountains, so
we can actually do this show from Colorado. So if
you guys want to learn more about uh information on
starlink and uh you know, communication products, you can go
(19:26):
to READYFIVEG dot com and uh get a wealth of
information if you're interested in.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
That Ready five G dot com.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
Good to have the technology, you bet.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
All right, Well, when we come back, we've got lots
more to talk about, and uh, Bill go out and
uh go out and shoot something. So and when we
come back on gun Radio Utah, stay tuned. We provide training,
we provide consultation. We are on a lot of committees,
and what I primarily do, I guess during legislative session.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I'm a lobbyist.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I'm the registered lobbyist for them, and I'm trying to
get bill to do that as well. But you can
find out go to Utah Shooting Sports Council dot org
Utah Shooting Sportscouncil dot org and find out more about
our organization, which has been around since the seventies. So anyway,
now we were just talking about let's see what we got. Okay, Yeah,
(20:20):
we've got plenty of time. So last Friday, not yesterday
last Friday, but last last Friday, the federal judge US
District Judge Stephen McGlenn deemed that the Illinois ban on
assault weapons, which also included what they called high capacity magazines,
(20:42):
was unconstitutional.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So they they've been around.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
It was enacted a couple of years ago, so I'm
glad that.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We jumped right on this.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
But the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which is the essentially,
I guess it's easy to say it's kind of like
the NRO, but only for the industry, whereas the NRA
is for the individual gun owners, even though there's a
little bit of mission creep in there. But the NSSF
is the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which represents the dealers,
(21:15):
the manufacturers, all that type of thing. So anyway, it
was in Illinois ban and they did it as an
emotional type of ban after a shooting in twenty twenty two,
and they banned semi automatic what we call modern sporting rifles.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I like to call sport utility rifles.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Anyway, even though we all know what happens in parts
of Chicago, it's done with handguns. And they didn't dare
I don't know, they didn't dare touch those, but what
they deemed assault weapons and high capacity magazines. The district
judge said that that violated the right tip bear arms
(21:58):
covered by the Second Amendment. So now what he did, though,
is he gave him thirty days before it would go
into effect, before the getting rid of the band, so
to speak. So they know they're going to appeal it.
And the Governor JB. Pritzker of New Jersey said he's
going to definitely appeal this.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Well, you know what, knock yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Knock yourself out, governor, because not only do we have
since seventeen ninety one history of the right to keep
bare arms, we have the Heller Decision, we have the
Brewined Decision, which talks about especially firearms in common use.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
It doesn't say for self defense, it doesn't say for.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Hunting, it says, in common use for whatever lawful purpose
they be. And what have we got something like, I
don't know, fifty million of them something I don't know.
I had a quote here on how many of them
were out there. But anyway, so semi automatic fire I
(23:02):
hunted with one for goodness sakes. But there's so much
there's there's so much hyperbole, there's so much rhetoric revolving
around that AR fifteen, the AK forty seven of these
semi automatic firearms that I remember, I put a post
up where I had my Daniel Defense three oh eight
(23:23):
semi auto was an AR ten, and people were saying,
especially people from California, oh my gosh, is that a howitzer?
And somebody from Australia commented, oh my gosh, you're going
to destroy the deer that you shoot with it, And just.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Because that's what they've been told that these guns do.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
The three o eight in AR ten is just a
fairly normal thirty caliber. But most of the AR fifteens
that we talk about are firing, you know, a twenty
two caliber, which I wouldn't even hunt with. But anyway,
so we've got that now, as we learned in the
last or maybe the first segment we learned that, yeah,
(24:04):
I got my bump stock back. It was the last
I guess legally owned but just not possessed bump stock
out there. There might have been one other with Michael Cargill,
but anyway, the ATF had said that the bump stock
in and of itself was a machine gun, when we
(24:27):
contended it was a stock that you don't need a
bump stock to bump fire with, which basically increases Let's
be honest, it does increase the rate of fire, but
it doesn't make it a machine gun any more than
somebody that is really fast with their trigger finger can
(24:47):
make the gun fire faster. All right, So the actual
definition of a machine gun means any weapon which shoots,
is designed it to shoot, or can be readily restored
to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading
by a single function of the trigger. Now that last part,
(25:10):
a single function of the trigger, was key in Clarence
Thomas's rejection of the ATF's argument because anybody who knows
anything about bump firing or bump stocks or whatever, because
a bump stock does not change the actual bump firing
of a semi automatic firearm, which people have been doing
(25:33):
for well over one hundred years. Without a bump stock,
the trigger has to be reset between each shot. With
a machine gun, it doesn't. It automatically, does it. It
automatically resets. So anyway, if now we have the Supreme
Court saying a bumpstock is on a machine gun, however,
(25:56):
could Congress come out and ban them?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah? I imagine they could. They had the opportunity to
do it before.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And then President Trump instructed the ATF and a lot
of people think, well he was playing three D chess,
but instructed the ATF two in a sense ban bump
stocks by calling the machine guns. All right, Well, could
that make any semi automatic firearm illegal as being part
(26:30):
of a machine gun?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Well, I guess it could be.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And depending on how fast and loose you play with
the statutes and that, you could do that.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
All right. Hey, if you've got a gun that isn't.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Operating correctly, got a stock that doesn't work right, it's
got scratches on it. You want to get engraving or
Sarah coding on your gun, get it over to the
gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Give him a call.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Give him a call, it eight O one three zero
four eighty seventy eight one three zero four eighty seventy
or take it down to him at sixteen thirty South
fifty seventy West in Salt Lake City. Or you can
take it into any of the over one hundred and
forty six Sportsmen's Warehouse locations and tell them to get
your gun to the gunsmith at Sportsmen's Warehouse.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
All right, when we come back, we're going to talk.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
About red flag laws and how they have just been
used in the state of New Jersey. You want to
want to stay tuned and listen to this. Oh, it
was nice to have Jim Older on, and Jim is
Jim has been a he's in attorney. He does trust,
he does all sorts of things. He's very involved with
(27:39):
Second Amendment, very involved with NFA type items. Get him
a call it eight to one four six three twenty
six hundred, eight to one four six three twenty six
hundred if you have a trust or something like that.
All right, See I coughed, and I didn't hit the
cough button right there in that As a radio professional
(28:00):
many years, I'm supposed to do that. But anyway, there's
no excuse there's no apologies. There's no excuses either. Anyway,
New Jersey, let this be a story about what we
told you what happened with red flag laws or what
they call extreme risk protection orders. Which remember when I
(28:22):
tell the story that you don't have to have committed
a crime, You don't even have to be suspected of
committing a crime. You just have to be suspected that
you might at some later date commit a crime, and
you can get an ERP or extreme risk production order
(28:43):
red flag law. Okay, Last week, a thirty five year
old Totawa, this is New Jersey. He faces charges after
a cash I loved them. They were used cash. A
cash of illegal firearms were found in his home. Now,
what they call illegal firearms, we call guns regular guns.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And I'll get a list of these things.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But anyway, Kyle was his name, and he was arrested
and charged with multiple firearm and weapon offenses after a
anonymous tipster who was looking at his Facebook postings notified
law enforcement authorities.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And so he was arrested.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
He was handed over to the Passaic County Sheriff's Department
pending a detention hearing. Now, so not only did he
get a red flag law against a protection order against
him just means you can't have guns. Guess what else
you can't have? You're presuming. But he was also arrested
a lot of times with these erpos. They don't arrest you,
(29:57):
they just take your guns away, all right. Anyway, So
I was acting on an anonymous email Wednesday that included
screenshots of Arenas posts with what they called questionable content
from various Facebook groups that he was involved in. It said,
(30:18):
So a judge issued a ERPO which allows police to
one search for and sees all firearms, ammunition, and other
dangerous items such as knives.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, knives.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
This is interesting because Jim Alder just mentioned Todd Rathner.
Todd Rathner is big on NFA type things. Also, he
is a lobbyist for knife Rights dot org. So if
it's kind of like kind of like Second Amendment only
it's knife rights and we've been working on a on
a modification to our existing dangerous weapon statutes involving knives.
(30:57):
But anyway, uh, yeah, so this includes knives, says While
serving a search warrant at the Lincoln Avenue home that
Arena shares with his parents, authorities uncovered illegal firearms in
a crawl space with one hundred twenty nine fully loaded
(31:19):
illegal high capacity magazines. These are things that we in
Utah call magazines. Thousands of rounds of ammunition. To us
here in Utah we would call that. Yeah, that's a
good start, and several illegal sharp edged weapons what we
(31:41):
call those knives here. He also had body armor, ballistic
body armor, a helmet, and items used to build and
alter firearms.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
What do we call those in Utah? Probably a dremal tool. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
They also arrested his father because I guess his dad
didn't like law enforcement coming in and searching his house
and got irritated, and he was charged with disorderly conduct,
but he was released pending a court appearance on that one.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
So folks, could this happen?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah, In fact, the Biden administration, if allowed to continue,
actually literally had an Office of Gun Control. I don't
care remember what they called it, but that was promoting
and giving money to states to develop their ERPO and
red flag programs. You think Kamala Harris would have been
(32:43):
worse than Joe Biden. She wanted to ban just flat
out ban semi automatic rifles, and Joe Biden in a debate,
said you can't do that, that's unconstitutional. And what did
she say? She looked over at him, laughing with that.
Just imagine that laugh should have a button with her
laugh on it saying Joe, don't say no, don't say
(33:05):
we can't say we can anyway, she plays that fast
and list with constitution. So, folks, is an erpo necessary.
You know what, if somebody is a threat, has made threats,
we have existing laws to cover that. In New Jersey.
(33:25):
This person, Oh, by the way, this person had no
criminal history none. He had guns that New Jersey calls
illegal and the magazine they literally had magazines that they said,
we're illegal just because New Jersey has a law against them.
And you have to register these guns as well, if
even the ones you can have. So is that coming
(33:49):
to a state like ours? Folks, don't get too complacent.
If you live here in Utah or you're listening somewhere
else in another free state, don't think it can't happen
to your state given just a few election cycles, maybe
even one or two. I don't think that the liberals
(34:11):
thought that it could happen to them, but it could
change back just like that. So do be careful of
that and always look. So what we call what they
call universal background checks are nothing more than registration. Think
about it, Think about logistically, how would they verify that
(34:33):
you went through a background check to get to have
your weapon if it wasn't registered, if there wasn't a
record kept of it called registration extreme risk protection orders.
This is nothing but gun confiscation. And as we see
in New Jersey, it's not just gun confiscation, it's knives too.
For goodness sakes, hey, this reminds me of landlords here
(34:56):
in Utah and across the nation on some boiler plate
lease agreements restricting your access or your possession of even
certain bits of cutlery, including guns. But we're fixing that
this legislative session can do. Hey, thanks for listening to
Gun Radio Utah. Can always get us on iHeart dot com,
(35:17):
slash media and pull up all of our podcasts. And
until next week, stay safe out there, take somebody shooting,
and clean up after yourself.
Today, I should probably warn you that it could be
a trigger for some of those folks that perhaps maybe
aren't friends of the gun. It could be a trigger.
This could be uh, it could be triggering, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I love that. That's a good thing, because we've got
a We've got a heck of a show.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We've got a guest, Jim Molder, is going to be
coming on here in a little bit to talk about
n FA firearms and an interesting aspect of that. We're
going to talk about, uh, some of the real life
aspects of a red flag law uh in New Jersey.
We're going to talk about an assault weapon ban that
was just struck down by a federal judge. Fantastic and uh,
(00:38):
you know, but before we do that, I just have
to We've got to go this. I just you know,
how long I've been waiting to play that. I don't know,
four years or more, something like that. And because unless
you've been living under a rock and deep under a
rock with your fingers in your ears, you you would
know that Donald Trump was just elected for his second
(01:04):
non consecutive term, forty seventh president of the United States.
And so we got looking at oh, in fact, you
know what hang on, I gotta I gotta do a
little thing here. Let's see and through the magic of
telephones and phones and all that, we're just going to
bring that upright there, Bill, are you there?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I am a fantastic listening to you on my starlink.
The the iHeartMedia app soon gave you a starlink, did he?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I think it's.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Elon's a good guy. I'll tell you. He came up
with some pretty neat stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
After the swearing in of Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I think everyone gets starlinks, don't they? You know, because
upon I gave out free phones, and Elon's going to
give out starlinks.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think, yeah, I think I think every Republican that
voted or anyone that voted for Trump should get a
free starlink.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That's just my well, Bill, you sound fantastic. You are?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
What are you doing? Tell thee Tell the listeners to
gun Radio Utahwaan.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I am facing the west in a chair about ninety
five hundred feet in elevation, in a foot of new
snow that we got, but the sun has come out
and I am just baking like a snake on a
rock and it feels good up here.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
What are you doing here? What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, we're up here hunting elk oh no. So, yeah,
we're doing the last hunt for the year and we're
in Colorado doing an outcome and it.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Is this a rifle? Is this a rifle out? It is? Okay, well, fantastic,
Good luck to you out there. I am.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So you're broadcasting from our from our Colorado location, I'm
broadcasting live from Ghost Die Manor and beautiful U went
to county and so I was thinking, you know, there's
a lot of folks that have been triggered, and I
want to kind of maybe in my attempt, in our
(03:03):
attempt to put to rest some of the things that
are likely to happen. So is Donald Trump really going
to when he comes into offices, you're really gonna arm everyone?
Is he going to deport entire families? Is he going
to have a complete ban on abortions? Is he going
(03:24):
to start World War three? Is he going to put
in prison all of his detractors? And will Liz Cheney
face a firing squad? Probably yes, I would probably say yes,
those are all accurate, Those are most assuredly those things
are going to happen. But the other question is is
(03:44):
Donald Trump perfect. Yes, I think he is actually, yeah,
And this comes from someone who sued him in his
administration and I was wrong to do it. So I'm
just just want to put those things out there. Anyways, Hey, Bill, uh,
last was it Wednesday? Or it was last Wednesday? Right
this last Wednesday?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Last Wednesday. Yeah, I gotta congratulate you and and eat
some crow for all of our listening listeners out there.
Clark and I made a trip to the ATF and
we retrieved his We retrieved your bump stock.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Which is now going to be called the trump stock,
and I'm gonna call it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm gonna call a trump stock because we did it
on the day after the election took place. So it's
now called the trump stock, and I have it. It
was in perfect condition, along with the box and all
the parts, the Folato switch, the lever that makes it
go fallatto just by basically just click it on and
(04:46):
put the gun down and it'll go fall otto at
that point, and all of that stuff. And it was
interesting because we went there, the media was there, yeah,
And we got into the little i don't know if
you want to call it a lobby, the little reception area,
and two of the ATF agents that I'd been dealing with,
at least one of them said, you know, I said, okay,
(05:09):
well let's go back there, and he says, well, we
have something for you to sign.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And it was just a receipt of property and so.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, I motioned to you and to the media and
he says, oh, well, they can't come in, and let
me tell you. It was an extremely boring hallway, an
extremely boring conference room that wouldn't have done wouldn't have released,
you know, state secrets at all. But anyway, so we
took pictures of it. They wouldn't let me keep the
(05:38):
evidence bag, but I took pictures of the evidence bag.
And I have the I have the trump Stock back
where it belongs. I have to keep a close eye
on it though, because well it can just do stuff
on its own. Really, I don't even want to get
it close to it.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
How did when you were reading I did with your
trump Stock? How was that emotional reunion between you and
the trump Stock? I mean, I got to imagine there
was some just some tears and some just you know,
just some long hugs. And five and a half years,
I'm sure you had some pretty deep.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, it was a private moment. It was a private
moment that I won't I won't probably share.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Private, So you know, I said to the two ATF agents,
I said, I says, can you can you give me
some time alone here? And so anyway, they did ask.
They did ask because we were wearing our Utah Shooting
Sports Console shirts and they said, well, what's gun Radio Utah?
And since they asked, I told them all about it.
(06:47):
And I said, you may not want to listen though,
because and I said, just last week we kind of
gave the the sac for the at F out of Michigan.
I think it was some grief saying that glock switches
increase the rate of fire to twelve thousand rounds a minute.
And they looked and they said twelve. I said, yeah,
(07:10):
twelve thousand. So anyway, that's what he had stated. Anyway, Bill,
I'm so glad that you're able to join us from
the Rocky Mountains. And so we're going to have Jim
Older on in the next segment, and we're going to
be talking about something that you and I have talked about,
(07:30):
and that is if you have an NFA item that
would include machine guns, suppressors, short barreled rifles, short bled shotguns,
destructive devices, those kind of things, and you have to
keep It's not a permit, it's not a license. It's
essentially a tax stamp that is placed on your registration
(07:52):
paperwork that you have to have with you anywhere the
gun goes. So if you take your gun out shooting
to the range, you have to have that paper work
with you, and it can be you obviously don't want to.
I mean people are somewhat apprehensive about carrying the actual
paperwork because it literally is a stamp like a lickham
(08:15):
stickham stamp that will either say five dollars or two
hundred dollars, depending on what the transfer is, and people
are a little apprehensive about carrying those the actual cop
you know, the actual documents. And we had talked about
this because you're acquiring some more. I don't think that's
(08:37):
a big secret, and we all are. So we're gonna
bring Jim Older on because some people have taken to
putting these tax stamps or fact similes of them on
their phones. So when we come back on gun Radio,
Utah Bill, you're gonna stay with us. We're gonna have
Jim olderon we're going to talk about you know, is
that a good idea or not? So stay tuned. Will
(08:59):
be right back and.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I am enjoying the sun right now, and we're just
brought to you. We're we're actually broadcasting live over startling
up here in ELK Camp. And I'll tell you, Clark,
if it wasn't for Starlink, I don't know what I'd
do missing the by U Utah game.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
But I think we're going to have a good time
tonight on that.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
But big thanks to Elon, Big thanks to Elon.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Yeah, I think Elon.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And with with that, we've got Jim Alder also with
this with the Older Law Group.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Jim. Welcome to a Gun Radio Utah. Thanks Belle.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Okay, yeah, so Jim, I asked you to come on
today because there's, uh, I know a lot of people
that don't want to carry their actual tax stamps and
their their basic their NFA type paperwork if you will,
the registration and for their NFA items. So they don't
want to carry the actual copies, so they make a
(09:58):
photocopy or a picture and they put it on their
phone thinking that hey, if law enforcement shows up and
wants to see this, if you know if somebody that
I would have, I would imagine the ATF and the
IRS or.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
The two people that could legally see it. I don't
know I have a thought on that, But is that
a good idea?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
What are some of the things because we use our
phones for everything now digital IDs, and there was even
some talk a few years ago in Utah about putting
your constialed Curry permit on your phone, having it digitally there.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I specifically advise my clients so when I'm setting up
gun trusts for them, you know, I show them what
I do typically that I like to shrink mine down
fifty percent.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
I laminate that.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I just keep that hard copy in my gun bag
under the phone on my gun case, you know. So
I've got a hard copy on me. I do have
scans on my phone. But my concern is is I
am not going to be supplying my phone to law
enforcement if somebody's hurt with my weapons, for instance, you know,
(11:00):
and they're looking at me a little curiously, you know,
kind of squinty eyed.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
I'm not going to.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Produce my phone and unlock it for him, because the
Supreme Court is said I have no duty to do
so unless I'm presented with a warrant. They have to
get a warrant to look at my phone, so I'm
not going to open it for him voluntarily. Okay, they
want interesting cans, I'm going to show them a hard
copy right that way.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They only have access to that, and that's it. Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yes, So with that said, Jim, my question to you
is who is authorized to see that? Clark mentioned the
ATF and the text attorneys or whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I mean, the IRN because it is literally a tax stamp,
I would imagine.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yeah, well, actually, you know, this is a this is
a subject of a lot of debate, a lot of argument.
But you know, Todd Rafner, he.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Just I was just on the phone with Todd yesterday literally, so.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, yeah, he and I have advocated innumber of different
arenas that any federal law enforcement officer has that right
to demand it because they can enforce federal law.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
The stamp itself is just proof the taxes has been paid.
But the document is your registration paperwork, and they can
verify registration.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Now, I actually have had a client that had a
US marshall approach them out there at Loan Rock, West
of Grandsville and demand to see their paperwork. I'm not
going to argue with that guy. Okay, Now the bigger
question is can local law enforcement ask But the fact is,
in virtually every state but Utah, state authorities have authority
(12:40):
to verify registration because almost every state where these weapons
are legal, their code says these weapons are legal if
registered as required under the NFA, or they are illegal
unless registered as required under the NFA, so they can
they have state authority to verify. Utah's like one of
only two states that does not have that specific language.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And we change we actually it was it had come
up because people wanted for us to be in compliance
like or in cooperation with other states. And I remember
this it was probably eight years ago, and we said no,
there was no requirement that we put that in statute.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Now, yeah, we we have a reference er too to
some of the weapons in our code, right, but nothing
specific of that nature. So we don't have express authority.
But I always tell clients, look, you want do you
want to be? The test case is what does some
of these references mean and whether local law enforcement can
(13:39):
verify your registration?
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Can you afford that? Do you want to be that
test case.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Do you want to spend some time trying to get
your weapon back, you know, take a ride downtown for
being obstinate or whatnot. And so my view is, if
I'm asked, I'm probably gonna just say, yeah, here you
go and get them out of my hair, because you know,
I don't want them to have my weapon.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
Confiscated to try and show off. You know, I'm a cop.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
You don't know what you're talking about, So deal with
any of that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So you had mentioned your clients.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I know that you that your NFA trust, if you will,
as an entity, has been reviewed very critically and and
come out on top, literally on top of other NFA
type trusts because it fits all the bills they're necessary it.
(14:29):
How do people get a hold of you if they
want to create a trust that is going to be
rock solid, ironclad.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Well, our website is Utah Trust Attorneys dot com. That's
our website, and you can even use utahgun Trust dot
com and I'll take you right to the gun trust
pages of our website. But we do have our intake
forms that are on the website, a bunch of information
about the couple of different levels that we offer and
(14:59):
and people can give us a call at eight oh
one four six three twenty six hundred and we can
walk you through it, answer all the questions you need
about what level you want to do and what's you know,
how it all works, and you know, get you set
up and get you going, get your documents to the
dealer that you're working with too, in most every case
(15:19):
as well.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, Now, Bill, you had a question because a lot
of our especially if we do it electronically and we're
doing it not through a trust, that some of our
paperwork comes back a lot of times through email.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Is that right? I mean right, Bill?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So yeah, so as they show up as an email,
we don't have that golden, licky sticky stamp on our paperwork. Now,
it's just an image and there's really a digital signature
at the bottom.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
Now, And so.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
What are you advising your clients to do on a
situation like that? I would imagine still make a copy,
laminate it and that.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
But if it's in.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Our email, I don't want to you know, if I
keep it on my phone, I don't want to expose
my email information to.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Well, well, Bill, you'd be exposing not just your email,
but think of all of the things that are on
your phone that we I mean, we barely use our
phones for phones anymore. It's everything else and all those
documents that that you have and even access to the
cloud probably that you do through your phone, that you're
now opening up and handing over to someone who may
(16:31):
not have your best interest at heart.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Yeah, that's my concern, and that's why I always have
a hard copy with me, just you know, in case
they're looking at me suspiciously, They're not going to be
looking at my phone exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
All right, Well, this is this is this is very
good information. So so basically you can go ahead and
it correct me if I'm wrong, Jim, But you can
go ahead and keep these electronic copies on your phone
own or whatever you want. But that's just for you
to use if you ever want to print them out
or access them. But when it comes time to actually
(17:09):
showing a federal LA enforcement officer or whoever that is
required to look at those, that you do so with
a hard copy. That way it limits their ability to
look at your private stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yeah, exactly, that's what I advise. You know, up to
the client what risks they want to undertake. But that's
exactly what I advise.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay, all right, fantastic, all right? So do you are
you hoping for it? And I didn't ask you about
this ahead of time, but Jim, are you hoping for
any changes? I know we just had the new ICE
the person who is likely to be confirmed as the
new ICE director. Any any thoughts on a new ATF
(17:51):
director and any changes that you think or hope will
occur in the new administration.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
You know, I'd love to see, uh some nice gun
friendly types that would be That would be great.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
I did see a post the other day that.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Somebody said, uh, Joshua Prince out of Pennsylvania should be
appointed to the ATF, and he said, that's one of
the jobs I would actually consider.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You know, I'm waiting, Jim, I'm waiting for a call
to be the guns are for this new administration, and
I you know, I would accept that, begrudgingly, have to
move to d C, but I would accept that guns
are because I just want to put on my door
guns are us, So anyway, that's that's what I would
(18:37):
put on my door. So anyway, and we should be
back online now, I don't know, maybe uh can Mark
can Mark tell us if we're back online. There were
I think we're back online now. I just saw the
so hey, that is the that's some of the problems
that we have when we when we are so remote
(18:57):
in boastically Uenta County and Callo and I think a.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Big shout out though part before we wrap up this
segment to Darren Barnhei is at Ready five G for
sponsoring this starlink system here up on the mountains, so
we can actually do this show from Colorado. So if
you guys want to learn more about uh information on
starlink and uh you know, communication products, you can go
(19:26):
to READYFIVEG dot com and uh get a wealth of
information if you're interested in.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
That Ready five G dot com.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
Good to have the technology, you bet.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
All right, Well, when we come back, we've got lots
more to talk about, and uh, Bill go out and
uh go out and shoot something. So and when we
come back on gun Radio Utah, stay tuned. We provide training,
we provide consultation. We are on a lot of committees,
and what I primarily do, I guess during legislative session.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I'm a lobbyist.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I'm the registered lobbyist for them, and I'm trying to
get bill to do that as well. But you can
find out go to Utah Shooting Sports Council dot org
Utah Shooting Sportscouncil dot org and find out more about
our organization, which has been around since the seventies. So anyway,
now we were just talking about let's see what we got. Okay, Yeah,
(20:20):
we've got plenty of time. So last Friday, not yesterday
last Friday, but last last Friday, the federal judge US
District Judge Stephen McGlenn deemed that the Illinois ban on
assault weapons, which also included what they called high capacity magazines,
(20:42):
was unconstitutional.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So they they've been around.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
It was enacted a couple of years ago, so I'm
glad that.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We jumped right on this.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
But the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which is the essentially,
I guess it's easy to say it's kind of like
the NRO, but only for the industry, whereas the NRA
is for the individual gun owners, even though there's a
little bit of mission creep in there. But the NSSF
is the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which represents the dealers,
(21:15):
the manufacturers, all that type of thing. So anyway, it
was in Illinois ban and they did it as an
emotional type of ban after a shooting in twenty twenty two,
and they banned semi automatic what we call modern sporting rifles.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I like to call sport utility rifles.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Anyway, even though we all know what happens in parts
of Chicago, it's done with handguns. And they didn't dare
I don't know, they didn't dare touch those, but what
they deemed assault weapons and high capacity magazines. The district
judge said that that violated the right tip bear arms
(21:58):
covered by the Second Amendment. So now what he did, though,
is he gave him thirty days before it would go
into effect, before the getting rid of the band, so
to speak. So they know they're going to appeal it.
And the Governor JB. Pritzker of New Jersey said he's
going to definitely appeal this.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Well, you know what, knock yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Knock yourself out, governor, because not only do we have
since seventeen ninety one history of the right to keep
bare arms, we have the Heller Decision, we have the
Brewined Decision, which talks about especially firearms in common use.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
It doesn't say for self defense, it doesn't say for.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Hunting, it says, in common use for whatever lawful purpose
they be. And what have we got something like, I
don't know, fifty million of them something I don't know.
I had a quote here on how many of them
were out there. But anyway, so semi automatic fire I
(23:02):
hunted with one for goodness sakes. But there's so much
there's there's so much hyperbole, there's so much rhetoric revolving
around that AR fifteen, the AK forty seven of these
semi automatic firearms that I remember, I put a post
up where I had my Daniel Defense three oh eight
(23:23):
semi auto was an AR ten, and people were saying,
especially people from California, oh my gosh, is that a howitzer?
And somebody from Australia commented, oh my gosh, you're going
to destroy the deer that you shoot with it, And just.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Because that's what they've been told that these guns do.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
The three o eight in AR ten is just a
fairly normal thirty caliber. But most of the AR fifteens
that we talk about are firing, you know, a twenty
two caliber, which I wouldn't even hunt with. But anyway,
so we've got that now, as we learned in the
last or maybe the first segment we learned that, yeah,
(24:04):
I got my bump stock back. It was the last
I guess legally owned but just not possessed bump stock
out there. There might have been one other with Michael Cargill,
but anyway, the ATF had said that the bump stock
in and of itself was a machine gun, when we
(24:27):
contended it was a stock that you don't need a
bump stock to bump fire with, which basically increases Let's
be honest, it does increase the rate of fire, but
it doesn't make it a machine gun any more than
somebody that is really fast with their trigger finger can
(24:47):
make the gun fire faster. All right, So the actual
definition of a machine gun means any weapon which shoots,
is designed it to shoot, or can be readily restored
to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading
by a single function of the trigger. Now that last part,
(25:10):
a single function of the trigger, was key in Clarence
Thomas's rejection of the ATF's argument because anybody who knows
anything about bump firing or bump stocks or whatever, because
a bump stock does not change the actual bump firing
of a semi automatic firearm, which people have been doing
(25:33):
for well over one hundred years. Without a bump stock,
the trigger has to be reset between each shot. With
a machine gun, it doesn't. It automatically, does it. It
automatically resets. So anyway, if now we have the Supreme
Court saying a bumpstock is on a machine gun, however,
(25:56):
could Congress come out and ban them?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah? I imagine they could. They had the opportunity to
do it before.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And then President Trump instructed the ATF and a lot
of people think, well he was playing three D chess,
but instructed the ATF two in a sense ban bump
stocks by calling the machine guns. All right, Well, could
that make any semi automatic firearm illegal as being part
(26:30):
of a machine gun?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Well, I guess it could be.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And depending on how fast and loose you play with
the statutes and that, you could do that.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
All right. Hey, if you've got a gun that isn't.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Operating correctly, got a stock that doesn't work right, it's
got scratches on it. You want to get engraving or
Sarah coding on your gun, get it over to the
gunsmith at Sportsman's Warehouse.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Give him a call.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Give him a call, it eight O one three zero
four eighty seventy eight one three zero four eighty seventy
or take it down to him at sixteen thirty South
fifty seventy West in Salt Lake City. Or you can
take it into any of the over one hundred and
forty six Sportsmen's Warehouse locations and tell them to get
your gun to the gunsmith at Sportsmen's Warehouse.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
All right, when we come back, we're going to talk.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
About red flag laws and how they have just been
used in the state of New Jersey. You want to
want to stay tuned and listen to this. Oh, it
was nice to have Jim Older on, and Jim is
Jim has been a he's in attorney. He does trust,
he does all sorts of things. He's very involved with
(27:39):
Second Amendment, very involved with NFA type items. Get him
a call it eight to one four six three twenty
six hundred, eight to one four six three twenty six
hundred if you have a trust or something like that.
All right, See I coughed, and I didn't hit the
cough button right there in that As a radio professional
(28:00):
many years, I'm supposed to do that. But anyway, there's
no excuse there's no apologies. There's no excuses either. Anyway,
New Jersey, let this be a story about what we
told you what happened with red flag laws or what
they call extreme risk protection orders. Which remember when I
(28:22):
tell the story that you don't have to have committed
a crime, You don't even have to be suspected of
committing a crime. You just have to be suspected that
you might at some later date commit a crime, and
you can get an ERP or extreme risk production order
(28:43):
red flag law. Okay, Last week, a thirty five year
old Totawa, this is New Jersey. He faces charges after
a cash I loved them. They were used cash. A
cash of illegal firearms were found in his home. Now,
what they call illegal firearms, we call guns regular guns.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And I'll get a list of these things.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But anyway, Kyle was his name, and he was arrested
and charged with multiple firearm and weapon offenses after a
anonymous tipster who was looking at his Facebook postings notified
law enforcement authorities.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And so he was arrested.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
He was handed over to the Passaic County Sheriff's Department
pending a detention hearing. Now, so not only did he
get a red flag law against a protection order against
him just means you can't have guns. Guess what else
you can't have? You're presuming. But he was also arrested
a lot of times with these erpos. They don't arrest you,
(29:57):
they just take your guns away, all right. Anyway, So
I was acting on an anonymous email Wednesday that included
screenshots of Arenas posts with what they called questionable content
from various Facebook groups that he was involved in. It said,
(30:18):
So a judge issued a ERPO which allows police to
one search for and sees all firearms, ammunition, and other
dangerous items such as knives.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, knives.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
This is interesting because Jim Alder just mentioned Todd Rathner.
Todd Rathner is big on NFA type things. Also, he
is a lobbyist for knife Rights dot org. So if
it's kind of like kind of like Second Amendment only
it's knife rights and we've been working on a on
a modification to our existing dangerous weapon statutes involving knives.
(30:57):
But anyway, uh, yeah, so this includes knives, says While
serving a search warrant at the Lincoln Avenue home that
Arena shares with his parents, authorities uncovered illegal firearms in
a crawl space with one hundred twenty nine fully loaded
(31:19):
illegal high capacity magazines. These are things that we in
Utah call magazines. Thousands of rounds of ammunition. To us
here in Utah we would call that. Yeah, that's a
good start, and several illegal sharp edged weapons what we
(31:41):
call those knives here. He also had body armor, ballistic
body armor, a helmet, and items used to build and
alter firearms.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
What do we call those in Utah? Probably a dremal tool. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
They also arrested his father because I guess his dad
didn't like law enforcement coming in and searching his house
and got irritated, and he was charged with disorderly conduct,
but he was released pending a court appearance on that one.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
So folks, could this happen?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah, In fact, the Biden administration, if allowed to continue,
actually literally had an Office of Gun Control. I don't
care remember what they called it, but that was promoting
and giving money to states to develop their ERPO and
red flag programs. You think Kamala Harris would have been
(32:43):
worse than Joe Biden. She wanted to ban just flat
out ban semi automatic rifles, and Joe Biden in a debate,
said you can't do that, that's unconstitutional. And what did
she say? She looked over at him, laughing with that.
Just imagine that laugh should have a button with her
laugh on it saying Joe, don't say no, don't say
(33:05):
we can't say we can anyway, she plays that fast
and list with constitution. So, folks, is an erpo necessary.
You know what, if somebody is a threat, has made threats,
we have existing laws to cover that. In New Jersey.
(33:25):
This person, Oh, by the way, this person had no
criminal history none. He had guns that New Jersey calls
illegal and the magazine they literally had magazines that they said,
we're illegal just because New Jersey has a law against them.
And you have to register these guns as well, if
even the ones you can have. So is that coming
(33:49):
to a state like ours? Folks, don't get too complacent.
If you live here in Utah or you're listening somewhere
else in another free state, don't think it can't happen
to your state given just a few election cycles, maybe
even one or two. I don't think that the liberals
(34:11):
thought that it could happen to them, but it could
change back just like that. So do be careful of
that and always look. So what we call what they
call universal background checks are nothing more than registration. Think
about it, Think about logistically, how would they verify that
(34:33):
you went through a background check to get to have
your weapon if it wasn't registered, if there wasn't a
record kept of it called registration extreme risk protection orders.
This is nothing but gun confiscation. And as we see
in New Jersey, it's not just gun confiscation, it's knives too.
For goodness sakes, hey, this reminds me of landlords here
(34:56):
in Utah and across the nation on some boiler plate
lease agreements restricting your access or your possession of even
certain bits of cutlery, including guns. But we're fixing that
this legislative session can do. Hey, thanks for listening to
Gun Radio Utah. Can always get us on iHeart dot com,
(35:17):
slash media and pull up all of our podcasts. And
until next week, stay safe out there, take somebody shooting,
and clean up after yourself.
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