November 2, 2023 • 45 mins
After his father’s death, Toby found a box of cassette tapes in his dad’s house. These private recordings tell the story of how his parents’ relationship fell apart—a story that Toby never knew, and might not want to know.
CREDITS
Heavyweight is hosted and produced by Jonathan Goldstein.
This episode was produced by senior producer Kalila Holt, along with Phoebe Flanigan. The supervising producer is Stevie Lane.
Production assistance by Mohini Madgavkar. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon.
Special thanks to Alex Blumberg, Max Greene, Blythe Terrell, and Jackie Cohen.
The show was mixed by Bobby Lord.
Music by Christine Fellows, John K Samson, Blue Dot Sessions, Saigon Would Be Seoul, and Bobby Lord. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Yeah, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Okay, my foot fell asleep? Are my foot fell asleep?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
From a medical perspective, is it better to rub it
or just to write it out?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Keep it still?
Speaker 5 (00:19):
I think I think maybe like cutting it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Off by wait.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Note, hello, Jackie, I can't walk and I can hear
the ice cream truck. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is
Heavyweight Today's episode Toby. Right after the break in two
(01:00):
twenty twelve, Toby's father died suddenly of a heart attack.
Shortly after the funeral, Toby cleaned out his house.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
You know, you just find stuff, find relics of a life.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Like, oh, hey, here's this, you know, pocket watch that's
labeled nineteen twelve.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Who's would this have been?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You know, Toby and his dad, Doug, weren't especially clothes,
so going through his stuff felt oddly intimate.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
It's funny. I didn't know my dad ever smoked weed,
but I found weed.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's like, oh, okay, it was really old, I think.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Toby says there were thousands of decisions to make.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Want to donate, what to try and sell it in
the state sale, what.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
To keep pocket watch, keep old weed? Discard? It was
while sorting through Doug's old suit jackets and books that
Toby found a box. A box containing twenty one audio
cassette tapes. Toby read through the labels. They had titles
(02:00):
like phone Conversation, Terry nine thirty PM, Terry March third,
nineteen eighty seven, Phone Conversation, and Terry's Call. Terry was
Toby's mom. She and his dad divorced when Toby was four, and,
judging by the dates on the labels, the tapes were
recorded around the time of their split. Why did these
(02:21):
tapes even exist? Toby wasn't sure. He put the tapes
in the key pile. As Toby understands it, his parents
were never an obvious match. Doug was the button down
type and Terry had a wild hair. They got married young,
(02:43):
and seven years into their marriage, Terry surprised Doug by
picking up all her stuff one day and moving out.
From there, Terry married a biker dude named Randy and
spiraled into years of wild living and hard drinking. Toby's
memory of those years is like a series of snapshot
Hugging his mom and knowing, even at twelve, to smell
(03:03):
her for alcohol. The time his friend told him he
couldn't sleep over at his house because quote, my mom
doesn't like your mom. And the night Terry took him
and his little sister, Heidi to a bar and kept
drinking and drinking.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
My mom was like unable to stand up essentially, and
me being seven or eight, knowing like, oh, you're not
supposed to drink and drive, and asking a random dude
at the bar like, hey, can you drive us home?
I remember being confused because I had asked the question,
(03:38):
and then my mom still drove us home. My sister
was I think old enough to know something wasn't right.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
She was probably kindergarten.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
In the back seat, i'd he reached out for Toby's hand.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And we held hands while she was driving home.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Eventually, Toby and Heidi went to live with their dad, Doug.
Things were a lot more emotionally stable there, but Doug
wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy. Toby can't remember a single
time he ever told Toby he loved him.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
That just wasn't part of our That wasn't part of
our vernacular. You never heard I love you, not that
I remember.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Although the divorce's aftermath had a profound impact on Toby,
for the most part, he tries to avoid thinking about it.
He tells me, he tends to shut out heavy emotions.
In fact, this tendency came up just the other day
when Lauren, his wife of fifteen years, brought up the
box of tapes.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
But then I saw something very quickly change the subject,
and she's like, this is what I'm talking about. Like you,
anytime it starts to get deep, you immediately find a bright,
shiny object to change the subject.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
He said, Hey, look at that silver carl there that's
been parked there.
Speaker 8 (05:01):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
This is Lauren.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
She's pretty avoidant of getting to those like raw vulnerable parts.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Twenty one cassette tapes from the exact period of your
life that you've spent so long avoiding might really bring
out those raw, vulnerable parts, which is why, almost ten
years after taking them home, the tapes remain unplayed, hidden
away in a credenza. Maybe there's nothing even on the tapes,
(05:33):
maybe they've been recorded over or warped with time. But
maybe they form an unlikely door to Toby's past, to
his childhood and his parents' relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
There's so much that I don't know.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Yeah, my dad's gone, my Mom's gone. I don't have
any way to find out what was actually happening in
my life. This is the last piece of them that
like it be new new information. But I don't know
that I'm ever actually going to listen to him if
I if I don't have an excuse forcing me to
listen to.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Him, And so I Jonathan Goldstein have become that living,
breathing excuse. Toby has come to me with the tapes
in order to help him face his past and his
feelings head on. What's the ideal version of what comes next?
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Like part of me is like send you guys the tapes,
and you tell me what's on them and what's interesting
and what's not, you know, like almost outsourcing.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Like like create a curated We've done a highlight reel.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Yeah, here's how your life changed dramatically through no fault
of your own.
Speaker 9 (06:42):
Here's the highlights, after the break, the highlights, clear the hold.
Speaker 10 (07:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I used to work at a radio show called This
American Life.
Speaker 8 (07:05):
I know it's the show that inspired me to follow
this line of work.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
If you've never heard of This American Life, they're like
I think they describe themselves. If I'm not mistaken, as
being like little movies for the radio.
Speaker 8 (07:18):
Yeah, it's the best. It was my favorite show as
a kid all the way to it's still my favorite show.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
And how many things can you think of that are
like that, that have been going for twenty five years
and have just maintained the level of quality that this
American life has truly, Like I mean even things that
you end up loving, like like I love Star Wars.
I watched three episodes. That was plenty for this American life.
It just in some ways it gets better, it expands
(07:46):
its universe and the things that it tries.
Speaker 8 (07:48):
Where you talk about it like every week.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, it's meaningful to us. And I would say, if
you love Heavyweight, you're gonna love this American life.
Speaker 10 (08:00):
Say that.
Speaker 8 (08:00):
I would say that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Should we say it in Unison?
Speaker 8 (08:03):
Sure, if you like heavy heavyweight, Okay, you're not saying
it in Unison, you're.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Gonna I don't know that's saying things in Unison really
excel something. It's not like no, no, no, really they said
it in Unison. It really imparted to me just how
true this was. Yeah, but it is true that this
American life continues to experiment every week with what Radio
storytelling can be and it drops every Sunday night, So
(08:30):
listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I mentioned to my six year old.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
I was like, yeah, I'm talking to Jonathan Goldstein and
he said, who is that? Is that an old man
you're talking to about another old man?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That he's basically nailed heavyweight in a sentence. I've started
to go through the cassettes, which amount to about twenty
three hours of audio. And while there are work calls,
calls to the video store, a fair bit of Fleetwood
Mac taped off the radio, a large portion of the
tapes is exactly what the labels promised. Phone calls between
(09:05):
Toby's parents. It seems that during the divorce proceedings, Doug
had been meticulously recording his phone calls, possibly as a
precaution in case of a custody battle. Toby has a
busy schedule. He works a full time job and is
raising two kids, so we set aside an hour a
week to go through the tapes a little at a time.
(09:26):
Our check ins usually occurred during breaks in Toby's workday.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Oh hey, hello, Toby, Hello, can you hear me?
Speaker 10 (09:33):
Hello?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Hello?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
The labels on the tape spent a couple of years,
and we decided to go through in chronological order. The
earliest tapes are from after Doug and Terry have separated,
but before the official divorce. I press play, and for
the first time in over a decade, Toby hears his parents' voices.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Did you pay Joanna? Couldn't get a hold of her. Ah,
you didn't pay her? Why not?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
In this recording, Terry wants to know why Doug has
an paid their babysitter, Joanne.
Speaker 10 (10:02):
Well, I'm going to end up having to pay.
Speaker 11 (10:03):
You all the.
Speaker 12 (10:08):
Sport.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I'm not asked for any I'm not vindictive, not greedy
just to pay Joanne.
Speaker 10 (10:15):
I'm not going to ask for Okay, Well, I'll stop
by the HM.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
My dad's voice I recognize, but my mom's voice. If
you had just played it and said who is this?
I would have I didn't recognize our voice, which is well,
pretty incredible to me.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And what Tobey also finds pretty incredible is hearing his
parents speak to one another and with so much civility.
The only version of them that he remembers is two
people with so much bad blood between them they could
hardly be in the same room together. Birthday parties were separate,
and at his graduation they avoided eye contact and didn't
speak a word. But none of that acrimony is evident
(10:59):
in these early tapes.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So you want that stipulated in the papers that you
would have them for a couple of.
Speaker 10 (11:03):
Months this summertime.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
In another recording from that time, Doug and Terry tried
to figure out how to split time with Toby and Heidi.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
What are you talking about game July, July, August, June
and July. Well, Hi, birthdays in July. We don't get
to give her a birthday party together. We love our kids.
We don't hate each other.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Not only do they not hate each other, they're getting
along exceptionally well. They're able to hash out their divorce
agreement just the two of them, without lawyers. They figure
it all out at a Perkins restaurant one night. As
Toby listens to his parents being so cordial, he feels
a kind of dread because he knows cordial is not
(11:48):
how things will end. It's like listening to the beginning,
he says, of a horror story. What do you don
so how did things deteriorate?
Speaker 10 (11:59):
So?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
How did they get so bad with that question in
mind before you head with the tapes. Yeah, so okay,
I'll play you. Uh well, Toby always knew his dad
to be a pretty detached person. On the night the
divorce becomes official, Doug seems genuinely lonely. The tapes capture
him phoning a friend and getting a continuous busy signal.
(12:21):
He calls back four more times until he can finally
get through.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Oh what do you guys do?
Speaker 10 (12:26):
Sit her top on the phone all night?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
No, leave it up to until people like you won't.
Speaker 13 (12:30):
Call hear what's going on?
Speaker 10 (12:33):
Dark? It's final?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
What final?
Speaker 12 (12:36):
The divorce?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Oh, it's already?
Speaker 12 (12:39):
How can it be done so quick?
Speaker 10 (12:41):
Oh?
Speaker 12 (12:41):
I'm going to do now to live with it? Did
you know I'm still going to take a lot of
time to get over it?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Sure?
Speaker 12 (12:48):
Sure? One one thing I.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
Learned people are not supposed to get divorced.
Speaker 12 (12:54):
What do you mean?
Speaker 10 (12:55):
I was always taught that if something's broken, you should fix.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It, because you know, I remember my parents and have
fight so bad.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
But you know, the found a divorce just never came up.
Speaker 10 (13:07):
Yeah, of course you'll never know the whole story, just
like Toby and Heidi will never know the whole story.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
It seems like he kind of intuitively knew that we
would always have questions, and that thread continues today.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
As we continue on beyond the divorce, Toby's wife, Lauren
joins him to listen to some of the tapes, like
this one, Hi Dad, This is a five year old
Toby on the phone with Doug. Adult Toby, hearing his
own voice, exchanges a smile with Lauren.
Speaker 10 (13:43):
Hey, hey, you got new cereal? Yeah? Yeah, what are
you trying to do? You trying to rot all your
teeth out?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Bye?
Speaker 12 (13:53):
Bye? I love you one night, Okay, I.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
Love I don't remember that kind of relationship with him,
Like what kind of relationship silly and playful and saying
I love you when you hang up the phone, Like,
I don't really remember that at all.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
The I love yous had existed, Toby had just forgotten them.
The parents on the tapes are different from the parents
Toby remembers in other ways too.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
How to bring along her care bear blanket too.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Not only are they working as a team, but Terry
sounds clear headed and on top of things.
Speaker 10 (14:39):
Yeah, she wrote it on some bog and it's like
a bedspread type. Yeah, it's the one.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Well, it goes on a little bed.
Speaker 10 (14:47):
Tobby knows who Robert is.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
That's who he's bowling the doubles with, and make sure
he gets a ten ball.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Whenever Terry calls to talk to the kids at Dougs,
young Toby runs to the phone.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Toby, I suppose so okay, I'll don't get through the son.
Speaker 7 (15:08):
I guess him right here here.
Speaker 10 (15:13):
Oh that was good.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
One another again, yad thirsty?
Speaker 7 (15:24):
Are you really gurgling?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I really got ruper.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And whenever they say goodbye, Terry, just like Doug tells
Toby how much she loves him, I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Love you bye bye, love you bye bye. I love you,
love you do.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's a little bit.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
It's a little bit sad knowing what happened in her
life over the next ten or fifteen years. Like my
memories and my mom don't have any of that lightheartedness
or happiness to him.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I remember a lot more.
Speaker 10 (15:58):
Of the.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Of the bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
The bad stuff continued into Toby's young adulthood. Not long
before she died, Toby saw his mother at a family Thanksgiving.
Toby was in college and it just dyed his hair black.
Terry was so out of it that she didn't recognize him,
and she.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Looked at me and said hi, and then like turned
away and was like, where's Toby at? And it's like, well,
I'm right here. My hair is a different color, but
I'm still here. And that's a core memory.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I think.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
I think that was the last time I saw her.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
You know that story, Lauren.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I didn't remember that story.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It's not a fun Friday night conversation.
Speaker 7 (16:48):
I've noticed today as we've been talking about stuff, like
you'll get choked up and then you know you've got
to sort of diffuse it, like you smile afterwards.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm thinking of like, it's a funny joke I can
put in here now.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Knowing how Toby tends to brush over difficult feelings, the
next clip I play him feels like one of those
origin stories you'd see in a superhero film.
Speaker 10 (17:16):
Toby Stop.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Doug is on hold with joe Anne, the babysitter.
Speaker 10 (17:23):
Okay, we'll get your jammies on that. Allen, shove up.
Act a little happier. Acts a little happier.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Okay, hello, Joanne, Act a little happier. The marching orders
Toby would continue to obey all the way into his adulthood.
But when Toby listens to the tape, I think it's funny.
All he can do is laugh it off. Shall we continue?
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Hellow, we're here.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
This is Toby's sister Heidi, asking Doug if can have
dinner with her at her mother's house.
Speaker 10 (18:02):
No, I don't think. I don't think too. Why I
don't go over her anymore?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Hyle you over you?
Speaker 10 (18:13):
Well? I don't eat Tipper over there?
Speaker 14 (18:16):
Why?
Speaker 10 (18:17):
Because of your mom and I are divorced?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Why they're true?
Speaker 12 (18:22):
Oil?
Speaker 10 (18:23):
I don't know. I will understand it better when we're older.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
In spite of Toby's being older, in spite of cassette
tapes unspooling lives, there are many questions Toby will never
have the answers to. But then one day, while going
through the tapes, I come across one answer to a
big question. How things between Doug and Terry got so bad?
(18:51):
It happened after the divorce on one particular evening in
April of nineteen eighty eight. Suddenly I can see the
whole arc of the relationships fall. The recordings are heavy
and scheduling these tape listening sessions over zoom. During Toby's
lunch breaks no longer feels appropriate, and so I have
a new idea. I decide I'll travel to Portland, where
(19:13):
Toby lives, so we can sit down together and over
the course of a dedicated weekend play these last tapes
in person.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh gosh, oh okay.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
After the break Portland, Hello, Hello, Toby, Lauren and I
(19:49):
meet in a hotel suite in downtown Portland. Ah, Lauren
and Toby sit next to each other on the couch.
We all don our headphones to listen so we can starts.
If that's good with you, guys. Yeah, and so we
dive into that pivotal evening from nineteen eighty eight in April.
(20:12):
For the first time we hear Doug narrating directly into
the recorder. It's because this is the moment when he
knows he's not merely documenting as a precaution, but potentially
preparing evidence.
Speaker 12 (20:27):
In her house alone. That's when I called the police.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It seems that Terry left Toby and Heidi at home
all by themselves one night, and Doug called the police.
Toby remembers that night.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
We were at mom's house.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Yeah, and she went I don't know how long she
was gone, but I was like five, I got scared
and I called my dad and I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
He was going to call the police or whatever.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
So my mom came home at some point and then
like the police came by.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Toby doesn't recall his dad talking to him about what happened,
but it seems he did.
Speaker 12 (21:05):
Are you upset about last night? And see? I called
the police because I don't think you guys should be
left there alone. And I didn't know what else to
do because I can't go in your mom's house, okay.
Speaker 10 (21:22):
But the.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
House they said we might get taken away to go
to your house.
Speaker 12 (21:30):
I don't think you will because I don't think your
mom will leave you alone anymore. And that's good because
you know, when you're older, I think you guys need
to be left alone. But not when you guys threw
this yim.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You know you.
Speaker 12 (21:45):
I know, I know, but you were scared, and I
was scared for you.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Terry, on the other hand, didn't think there was anything
to be scared of. When she calls Doug sometime later
to talk to the kids, how do he brings up
that night and Terry explains it this way, Well.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Come when hang left, no pay because I had to
go check out my work and I was gone for
fifteen minutes. Haven't you ever been left alone before you
were asleep? You didn't even know it. And if Toby
had been asleep, do you know what? I would not
have left at all. But I thought Toby was old
(22:23):
enough that he could sit here for fifteen minutes by
himself and watch the movie he was watching without freaking out.
But obviously not.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Pretty shitty to put that on me, a six year
old who got scared.
Speaker 11 (22:42):
So now that just caused the big that caused a big, big,
big big problem. You still through the whole thing, Heidi,
Toby knows all about it, and from now on your
debit or never believe you guys learned either?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Never ever?
Speaker 11 (22:56):
If he does, you call me how come you did?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Because honey, you were absolete for the night. But that's
the half kind of fine. The house, I wasn't gonna
catch them far. We got that. How many? We've got
two smoke alarms downstairs here, don't we? And we scored
about the house. One catch the fire with fast climate matches?
Are you guys gonna play with matches?
Speaker 12 (23:17):
But that's the right.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
We got all new wiring in the.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
House Because of what happened that night, Family Services paid
a visit to Terry's house, but nothing came of it.
Legally that was that. Still, Terry felt betrayed by Doug.
Here they are later that week relitigating.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Are you flying for full cut? Are you gonna doll
at that?
Speaker 10 (23:49):
What?
Speaker 12 (23:50):
I want you to straighten your act up?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
My app big war straight Why.
Speaker 11 (23:58):
You made that yet?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Four year old?
Speaker 12 (24:01):
A six year old alone?
Speaker 11 (24:03):
I left four I was begun for some of them.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Hoar.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
She didn't sound sober.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
I think my sister and I were there with her
at that point, like she was taking care of us.
Speaker 12 (24:24):
What was probably doing up at eleven o'clock on the
school right?
Speaker 11 (24:28):
What was because one of the.
Speaker 12 (24:31):
Welcome the other day you said you were going to
kill yourself. If I had gut see kids, I would never.
Speaker 11 (24:38):
Tell my own, you know how religious boot star.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
What begins is anguish hardens into anger. A few weeks later,
Terry phones Dog and accuses him of being out at
a bar called Windy O'Leary's.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, that's Heary. We are you hanging out Winny o'larry's.
Should I call the cops on you? You're told the
wanting to talk to you. I think that's a little
bit of neglect. I didn't really call it a bitch
or anything, but what I do want to say is this,
I don't like standing on my front porch spying. I
told you to park in front of the house, and
that's exactly what I meant. And if you can't get
in an answer with the honk, then you just better
(25:16):
start hollering in the door to behind it, because far
as I did it, it was fying to listen to
what was going on in the house. So yeah, I'm
a little upset, and I've been upset and I've been
holding it in. And that's just the kind of mood
I'm in, and that's just the kind of.
Speaker 11 (25:29):
Mood that I have been holding within.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
So why did I just give a call?
Speaker 11 (25:35):
We know a Larius and see if you'll answer?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Goodbye?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So this next clip is the last tape between them.
It's a long one. Let's let's listen if you if
you're ready, I think so.
Speaker 10 (25:57):
That's very important I got hold of. You know, is
there a problem?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Can they talk to you about the month of June?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
The month of June? This is where the argument begins.
Doug has custody in June, but Terry has registered Toby
for summer softball. Doug says the problem there is that
he and the kids will be out of town for
two weeks in June. So Terry says, well, great, if
Toby's going to miss that much softball, he'll probably end
up with some horrible position like right field, and his
(26:22):
self esteem will be shot to hell.
Speaker 10 (26:25):
You know that the kids come here in June and
you just scheduled it.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
The damn league scheduled at that. Well, you didn't contact me, Okay,
certicipate in any summer sports? Is that what you're saying?
What's that Toby can never participate in any summer sports
his whole life till he's eighteen.
Speaker 10 (26:42):
No, I didn't say anything like that. I said I
would like to know. I find that.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Let's let the child be just an invalid hum be
a vegetaball all summer.
Speaker 10 (26:50):
What.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Terry wants to change the custody agreements so she can
take Toby to the softball games, but Doug says he's
already booked the childcare he'll need for the whole month here.
Speaker 10 (27:02):
Yeah, Terry, now I am, I'm not following. Don't wait
a second, let me talk.
Speaker 12 (27:06):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (27:07):
Joanne and Caprice have scheduled their time around when they
can watch my kids, Caprice our kids. Okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So Terry turns it back on Doug. Okay, she says,
if I can't see the kids in June, then you
won't see them in July.
Speaker 10 (27:25):
Yes, I will see them.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
How maybe my men is still left.
Speaker 10 (27:29):
I can see them on weekends my normal visitation.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Okay, I'll have to look at up because I do
tend to look every little thing up.
Speaker 10 (27:38):
Are you going to look up about the school that
you pull them out of?
Speaker 3 (27:42):
School?
Speaker 12 (27:42):
Is getting paid off?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
In those early calls, Doug and Terry tended to resolve
their disagreements in just a few minutes, But now they
go on fighting for over half an hour straight. Terry
begins to leave from one unrelated grievance to the next.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
The other day, God damn it, Jonathan walked Toby home
from kindergarten.
Speaker 10 (28:00):
Yeah, capriest went too.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Caprice did not take them home. Toby told me this,
that's not true. Oh Toby lied. You know, Toby, he
is not a liar. When I walked to her, also
to talk to the kids Friday afternoon, Caprice, after you
can get up the phone, Get up the own kids,
get up the phone, get off the phone, because I
always make a point of calling them on Friday and Saturday,
(28:22):
which I don't see you making a.
Speaker 10 (28:23):
Point of calling the kids during the week.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
But when I call, I don't appreciate the babies. They
were telling the kids to get off the phone. Now
I don't appreciate. Also, you standing on my front porch
hearing what's going on inside of my house. To me,
that is fine and low down and dirty. You were
standing with one foot on the porch and one.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And then finally Terry raises the thing that really underlies
her rage, the night of the police, when two weeks.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Ago, in the cops with here, you couldn't even come
up to check on your own son's welfare when you
were supposedly so dimnn concerned. So what's the difference. I mean,
either you're gonna do it or you're not gonna do it.
That's kind of double.
Speaker 10 (28:59):
Standards, because I don't think it would have been a
good idea to make a big scene.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Oh, make a big scene when you're taken upstairs and
talk to the cops. You know, four policemen. You don't
consider that a big scene. Four cops, right, that's Orange said,
four cops is a big scene.
Speaker 10 (29:17):
What I consider big was leaving the kids alone.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But you don't know our lifestyle. You don't know our situation,
and no.
Speaker 10 (29:25):
Second lifestyle has nothing to do with it. You don't
leave a four year old and a six year old
in a house alone in the middle of the night,
let alone in the middle.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Of the day, Copsas has it ever happened before?
Speaker 11 (29:35):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
And another thing that has or still is that you did, Doug.
Was you sitting around, actually sitting around? Actually nobody can
believe this in your suit, kai your jacket, your dress pants,
your dress shoes and all that at eleven o'clock at night.
Speaker 10 (29:51):
Yeah, it was a matter of fact, as you were.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
As a matter of fact.
Speaker 10 (29:54):
No, I didn't. I didn't have a tie on.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
No you had a tie on when you was out
here in front of my house.
Speaker 10 (29:59):
No I didn't.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I had How can we see it? She was so
far away when they came up here and check on Toby.
Speaker 12 (30:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Sure, I mean, do you talk so serious that the
kids you guys ever laugh? I know you do a
lot of things that the kids. I know you guys
go to zoo, and I know you guys go boating,
and I know the kids enjoy it. But I also
know they're getting to spoiled little burger bets over a
lot of things too. They're getting expected a little bit
too my child life, I think. But is there any
humor and laughter in their life? Or is it all
(30:26):
materialism and soberness. I don't know what's going on? But
why is it? The other day Toby didn't for the
first time, Toby didn't want to go to your house?
And why did Toby draw a picture of the devil
and say it was you? How do you have to bead?
Speaker 10 (30:44):
Dream?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Last night? And it was at your house?
Speaker 10 (30:46):
That's the dream was?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
What is going on? I am really concerned.
Speaker 10 (30:50):
Yeah, I don't know. The kids hold a lot of anger.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
They don't hold a lot of anger here. Everything's funky
dory here. As matter of fact, laugh to night. The
kids have woke up with bad dreams, and both nights
have been dreams. Had something to do with the house.
Speaker 10 (31:06):
Well, they don't wake up with bad dreams over here.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
They sleep as well from over there. They're not dreams here.
You know, I'm thinking, is there a perversion going on
or what?
Speaker 10 (31:18):
Well, I think that's pretty strong allegation.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I don't hear the allegation, but I wonder.
Speaker 10 (31:23):
Well, exactly what are you trying to say?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I had it happen to me? Is there a friend
of yours that you are maybe think that's a good
friend of yours? You maybe not be a friend good
friend as you think?
Speaker 10 (31:34):
Well, I think you're wrong.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
No, that's that's not impossible. That it's not impossible.
Speaker 10 (31:45):
How can you comprehend leaving a four and a six
year old at home alone.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
For fifteen minutes? And you know what? The DCFS worker
died laughing. She said, tell me, do you know why
I'm here? He says yes, because I have no sense
of time till tell me. I'll be right back.
Speaker 10 (31:59):
I ran three blocks.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I was right back.
Speaker 10 (32:01):
Well, you don't leave a four year old care because,
by God, the first time, there won't be no cops involved.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
It'll be me and my family involved. Because nobody in
my family can believe they said right or wrong. They
can't believe that you called in the outside.
Speaker 10 (32:19):
Your family thinks it's okay to leave kids alone.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
No, but they think you should have come over yourself.
But no, you can't even come up on the front porch, Terry.
The police, the police.
Speaker 10 (32:30):
Did not want me to come up on the front porch.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
The police didn't want you to come talk to your
own son. Did they say that, Terry? No? Did they
say that they.
Speaker 10 (32:41):
Got the information they needed? They told me they thought
it would be best if I left.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Did you say, well, I would like to talk to
my son. Did you take the police advice, Terry.
Speaker 10 (32:53):
I'm not gonna argue no, No.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I want to know how much you care about tell
me you took the police advice over your own son's welfare.
I personally, I don't know. Maybe it's the maternal instinct.
I would have said, well, can I at least see
my son or talk to him?
Speaker 10 (33:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
But the police advice when the police got thousands and
thousands of thousands of calls to make and only one son.
Speaker 10 (33:22):
My own concern for Toby is why why the police
were at your house. You don't leave a four year
old at six year old place.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Why didn't you just track your suit, tie, shoes, and
your jacket over here in the first place. I did,
you would have been here before they would have been here,
I was you was here before they was here. Yeah,
that just goes to show me that your concern is
not what your son is, but how it looks reflex
(33:52):
on you. First time I ever ever left the kids,
they told that lady that they told the policeman that
they told you that. I can't even begin to tell
you my anger about this.
Speaker 10 (34:03):
Well, that's good because I'm not gonna allow you to
do that.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
You're not gonna allow me kiss my ass. I don't
ever gonna happen again.
Speaker 10 (34:11):
I don't regret calling the police when you call the.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Police, Okay, fine, anything ever happens, I call the police
on you. Then neither one of us have children. How
do you like them? Apples? You want to calling up
on organizations?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
That's tip cut off, Tip cuts off. It's not at
the end of the cassette. The tape abruptly cuts off
in a way that suggests Doug had pressed stop. For
all of his rigor and scrupulousness and recording, It's like
this moment was just too painful to document. In the end,
(34:49):
Doug never needed the tape for evidence, as there was
no court case. Terry agreed to allow him full custody
without contest when Toby was in the third grade, he
and Heidi went to with their dad for good Toby
sits in silence, taking in what he just heard. Lauren
studies his face.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
The thing I just get pulled back to again and
again is like, that's my person in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
It's really hard.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
I wish there were like better words. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Toby's always been grateful to his dad for taking him
out of a bad situation, but hearing this conversation, he says,
he suddenly understands the extent of what his dad was
dealing with and why it might have been so important
that Doug remained the stolid one in the face of
so much intensity. Perhaps someone had to be My.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Mom was being awful, just being pretty awful.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Jerry and good.
Speaker 13 (35:57):
They were happy, They were happy until she was.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
This is Toby's aunt, Tracy, Terry's sister. I reached out
to her to try to get more context for some
of the things Terry says in the tapes. Specifically, Tracy
was able to explain the abuse that Terry referenced.
Speaker 13 (36:13):
My parents' best friends that mom and dad ran around
with all the time. It was that man, the husband
and Terry never told because she absolutely loved the lady
and loved going over there and hanging out with her.
Speaker 10 (36:28):
She just just loved her.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
It wasn't until well into Terry's adulthood that the truth
came out. She called her parents one night and told
them what their friend had done to her all those
years ago. Her parents didn't know what to do, so
they did nothing. Terry's boyfriend at the time convinced her
to phone the man's wife. They called together and.
Speaker 13 (36:49):
They told her these people are still married. And I
guess in a day or two found out that she
had confronted.
Speaker 11 (36:59):
The name, and.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Just a few days later the husband died by suicide.
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Told her it was true suicide. Oh my yeah.
Speaker 13 (37:13):
I think that was one of Terry's demons. I think
that his mom lived with a lot of regrets.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
I think she died with a lot of regrets.
Speaker 13 (37:31):
I mean, it's sad I look back and how sad
it is that the kids didn't have her growing up.
Anybody that's in addiction don't want to be an addiction.
That addiction was always dumber than her. I'd believe with
my whole heart if she could come back today and
go okay, let's do this over. It would have been
(37:51):
an amazing mom.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
The argument about the police was the last tape between
Toby's parents, but there are two other tapes. Tapes that
were not recorded surreptitiously. You were recorded explicitly for Toby
is a.
Speaker 13 (38:12):
Bore start on Friday next to eighty one.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
This is a tape that Terry made recounting the story
of Toby's birth directly to him.
Speaker 15 (38:22):
DEVI and I've got a whole viewing Xcus.
Speaker 11 (38:25):
That was your dad recurring.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I was just so happy because this tape was found
among Doug's things. Because Terry sounds so young and optimistic,
you can tell that this was recorded years before the divorce,
back when things were different. Terry explains how she and
Doug got into a spat and it's what I argument,
but then swore to never argue in front of Toby
(38:49):
again and.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Incent police but we don't like it, and soth.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Main we made it. All these years later, it's hard
for Toby to picture his parents as people who were
once in love, who could argue and then make up,
who cared about him in tandem. In two thousand and three,
Terry died from complications due to addiction. The lasting image
(39:18):
Toby has of his two parents finally sharing the same
room took place at her funeral. Toby was surprised to
see his dad seated at the back of the church.
Doug left as soon as the service was over, and
Toby could never figure out why his father had shown
up at all. Maybe it was for the Terry he
used to love. Maybe it was for their kids. Me
(39:39):
and you naw kid, No, mister an, let's get this sleeper.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
You come.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
The final tape I play for Toby is one of
Toby himself as a baby with his parents.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
You get the tickets, yo, you get the hiccups.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
This is pretty tricky getting his clothes on you would
use for him and all our.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Arm In another part of the tape, Terry sings to
a baby Toby.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
See Toby, Gene, I'm so lovely, Jean.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
And I need to be Gene.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
We never pad so Hello, Toby.
Speaker 10 (40:20):
Gen.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Give.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I didn't want to put a kid through what I
went through as a kid.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Even back when he was just a kid himself, Toby
remembers thinking, when I'm an adult, it won't be like this.
When I have my own kids, I'm going to do
things so much differently, and now he does have kids,
a six year old and a nine year old.
Speaker 6 (40:47):
Something that has always been important to me is like stability.
That's something I've intentionally built into my life. Yeah, because
I knew what it was like to be a kid
and not have that. And I think we've built a
really good life for us and our family and our kids.
Speaker 7 (41:12):
Tobya told me a story from when he was a
kid closed to do BMX racing, and you should tell
the story.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
How to answer your story calling.
Speaker 6 (41:25):
Yeah, so I wanted to do BMX racing really bad.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I'd seen it on TV. I was like, that's the
coolest thing ever. I want to do this. And so my.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Dad called the one bike shop in our town and
was like, is there any BMX around or whatever? And
they're like nope. And then I never got to do BMX.
But our six year old really is into it, and
so like, I've got him.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
I'll be an ex bike can work.
Speaker 15 (42:08):
Sorry, We're like, I'm going to a skate park all
the time, and he's in mountain bike classes and yeah,
doing that stuff for him that like, it's clear to
me that my dad.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Went the extra mile in the ways that he could.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
I want to do that for my kids.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
So he doesn't get emotional very often. This is the
most I've ever seen him emotional. And we've been through
some life together. You're sleep good tonight, buddy.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
Like you know, this is this type of emotional work
that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, maybe, said Doug. Well, I know stand it better
when we're older, which is something that people just say.
But in this case, Doug inadvertently left something behind to
make that understanding possible and yet to become the dad
that he is, to give the things that he didn't get.
(43:16):
Toby didn't need the tapes at all.
Speaker 5 (43:24):
Just really proud of you, Toby, Thank.
Speaker 14 (43:28):
You because I know that you feel that way.
Speaker 7 (43:54):
Now that the furniture's riturned to its goodwill, now that the.
Speaker 14 (44:04):
Last months rant is scheming with.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
The damage to pozzle, take this moment to deserve.
Speaker 14 (44:14):
If we if we too.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Felt around for far.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
From things accidentally.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
This episode of Heavyweight was produced by senior producer Khalila
Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our
supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistants by Mohemy Micgauker.
Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Alex Bloomberg,
Max Green, Blythe Terrell, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed
the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson,
(44:52):
and he himself, Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be
found on our website Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our
theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records.
Heavyweight is a Spotify original podcast. Follow us on Twitter
at Heavyweight, on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast, or email us
at Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. You can also follow
(45:15):
our show on Spotify and tap the bell to receive
notifications when new episodes drop. We'll be back next week
with a new episode.
Yeah, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Okay, my foot fell asleep? Are my foot fell asleep?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
From a medical perspective, is it better to rub it
or just to write it out?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Keep it still?
Speaker 5 (00:19):
I think I think maybe like cutting it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Off by wait.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Note, hello, Jackie, I can't walk and I can hear
the ice cream truck. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is
Heavyweight Today's episode Toby. Right after the break in two
(01:00):
twenty twelve, Toby's father died suddenly of a heart attack.
Shortly after the funeral, Toby cleaned out his house.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
You know, you just find stuff, find relics of a life.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Like, oh, hey, here's this, you know, pocket watch that's
labeled nineteen twelve.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Who's would this have been?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You know, Toby and his dad, Doug, weren't especially clothes,
so going through his stuff felt oddly intimate.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
It's funny. I didn't know my dad ever smoked weed,
but I found weed.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's like, oh, okay, it was really old, I think.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Toby says there were thousands of decisions to make.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Want to donate, what to try and sell it in
the state sale, what.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
To keep pocket watch, keep old weed? Discard? It was
while sorting through Doug's old suit jackets and books that
Toby found a box. A box containing twenty one audio
cassette tapes. Toby read through the labels. They had titles
(02:00):
like phone Conversation, Terry nine thirty PM, Terry March third,
nineteen eighty seven, Phone Conversation, and Terry's Call. Terry was
Toby's mom. She and his dad divorced when Toby was four, and,
judging by the dates on the labels, the tapes were
recorded around the time of their split. Why did these
(02:21):
tapes even exist? Toby wasn't sure. He put the tapes
in the key pile. As Toby understands it, his parents
were never an obvious match. Doug was the button down
type and Terry had a wild hair. They got married young,
(02:43):
and seven years into their marriage, Terry surprised Doug by
picking up all her stuff one day and moving out.
From there, Terry married a biker dude named Randy and
spiraled into years of wild living and hard drinking. Toby's
memory of those years is like a series of snapshot
Hugging his mom and knowing, even at twelve, to smell
(03:03):
her for alcohol. The time his friend told him he
couldn't sleep over at his house because quote, my mom
doesn't like your mom. And the night Terry took him
and his little sister, Heidi to a bar and kept
drinking and drinking.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
My mom was like unable to stand up essentially, and
me being seven or eight, knowing like, oh, you're not
supposed to drink and drive, and asking a random dude
at the bar like, hey, can you drive us home?
I remember being confused because I had asked the question,
(03:38):
and then my mom still drove us home. My sister
was I think old enough to know something wasn't right.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
She was probably kindergarten.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
In the back seat, i'd he reached out for Toby's hand.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And we held hands while she was driving home.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Eventually, Toby and Heidi went to live with their dad, Doug.
Things were a lot more emotionally stable there, but Doug
wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy. Toby can't remember a single
time he ever told Toby he loved him.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
That just wasn't part of our That wasn't part of
our vernacular. You never heard I love you, not that
I remember.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Although the divorce's aftermath had a profound impact on Toby,
for the most part, he tries to avoid thinking about it.
He tells me, he tends to shut out heavy emotions.
In fact, this tendency came up just the other day
when Lauren, his wife of fifteen years, brought up the
box of tapes.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
But then I saw something very quickly change the subject,
and she's like, this is what I'm talking about. Like you,
anytime it starts to get deep, you immediately find a bright,
shiny object to change the subject.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
He said, Hey, look at that silver carl there that's
been parked there.
Speaker 8 (05:01):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
This is Lauren.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
She's pretty avoidant of getting to those like raw vulnerable parts.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Twenty one cassette tapes from the exact period of your
life that you've spent so long avoiding might really bring
out those raw, vulnerable parts, which is why, almost ten
years after taking them home, the tapes remain unplayed, hidden
away in a credenza. Maybe there's nothing even on the tapes,
(05:33):
maybe they've been recorded over or warped with time. But
maybe they form an unlikely door to Toby's past, to
his childhood and his parents' relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
There's so much that I don't know.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Yeah, my dad's gone, my Mom's gone. I don't have
any way to find out what was actually happening in
my life. This is the last piece of them that
like it be new new information. But I don't know
that I'm ever actually going to listen to him if
I if I don't have an excuse forcing me to
listen to.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Him, And so I Jonathan Goldstein have become that living,
breathing excuse. Toby has come to me with the tapes
in order to help him face his past and his
feelings head on. What's the ideal version of what comes next?
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Like part of me is like send you guys the tapes,
and you tell me what's on them and what's interesting
and what's not, you know, like almost outsourcing.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Like like create a curated We've done a highlight reel.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Yeah, here's how your life changed dramatically through no fault
of your own.
Speaker 9 (06:42):
Here's the highlights, after the break, the highlights, clear the hold.
Speaker 10 (07:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I used to work at a radio show called This
American Life.
Speaker 8 (07:05):
I know it's the show that inspired me to follow
this line of work.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
If you've never heard of This American Life, they're like
I think they describe themselves. If I'm not mistaken, as
being like little movies for the radio.
Speaker 8 (07:18):
Yeah, it's the best. It was my favorite show as
a kid all the way to it's still my favorite show.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
And how many things can you think of that are
like that, that have been going for twenty five years
and have just maintained the level of quality that this
American life has truly, Like I mean even things that
you end up loving, like like I love Star Wars.
I watched three episodes. That was plenty for this American life.
It just in some ways it gets better, it expands
(07:46):
its universe and the things that it tries.
Speaker 8 (07:48):
Where you talk about it like every week.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, it's meaningful to us. And I would say, if
you love Heavyweight, you're gonna love this American life.
Speaker 10 (08:00):
Say that.
Speaker 8 (08:00):
I would say that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Should we say it in Unison?
Speaker 8 (08:03):
Sure, if you like heavy heavyweight, Okay, you're not saying
it in Unison, you're.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Gonna I don't know that's saying things in Unison really
excel something. It's not like no, no, no, really they said
it in Unison. It really imparted to me just how
true this was. Yeah, but it is true that this
American life continues to experiment every week with what Radio
storytelling can be and it drops every Sunday night, So
(08:30):
listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I mentioned to my six year old.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
I was like, yeah, I'm talking to Jonathan Goldstein and
he said, who is that? Is that an old man
you're talking to about another old man?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That he's basically nailed heavyweight in a sentence. I've started
to go through the cassettes, which amount to about twenty
three hours of audio. And while there are work calls,
calls to the video store, a fair bit of Fleetwood
Mac taped off the radio, a large portion of the
tapes is exactly what the labels promised. Phone calls between
(09:05):
Toby's parents. It seems that during the divorce proceedings, Doug
had been meticulously recording his phone calls, possibly as a
precaution in case of a custody battle. Toby has a
busy schedule. He works a full time job and is
raising two kids, so we set aside an hour a
week to go through the tapes a little at a time.
(09:26):
Our check ins usually occurred during breaks in Toby's workday.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Oh hey, hello, Toby, Hello, can you hear me?
Speaker 10 (09:33):
Hello?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Hello?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
The labels on the tape spent a couple of years,
and we decided to go through in chronological order. The
earliest tapes are from after Doug and Terry have separated,
but before the official divorce. I press play, and for
the first time in over a decade, Toby hears his parents' voices.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Did you pay Joanna? Couldn't get a hold of her. Ah,
you didn't pay her? Why not?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
In this recording, Terry wants to know why Doug has
an paid their babysitter, Joanne.
Speaker 10 (10:02):
Well, I'm going to end up having to pay.
Speaker 11 (10:03):
You all the.
Speaker 12 (10:08):
Sport.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I'm not asked for any I'm not vindictive, not greedy
just to pay Joanne.
Speaker 10 (10:15):
I'm not going to ask for Okay, Well, I'll stop
by the HM.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
My dad's voice I recognize, but my mom's voice. If
you had just played it and said who is this?
I would have I didn't recognize our voice, which is well,
pretty incredible to me.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And what Tobey also finds pretty incredible is hearing his
parents speak to one another and with so much civility.
The only version of them that he remembers is two
people with so much bad blood between them they could
hardly be in the same room together. Birthday parties were separate,
and at his graduation they avoided eye contact and didn't
speak a word. But none of that acrimony is evident
(10:59):
in these early tapes.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So you want that stipulated in the papers that you
would have them for a couple of.
Speaker 10 (11:03):
Months this summertime.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
In another recording from that time, Doug and Terry tried
to figure out how to split time with Toby and Heidi.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
What are you talking about game July, July, August, June
and July. Well, Hi, birthdays in July. We don't get
to give her a birthday party together. We love our kids.
We don't hate each other.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Not only do they not hate each other, they're getting
along exceptionally well. They're able to hash out their divorce
agreement just the two of them, without lawyers. They figure
it all out at a Perkins restaurant one night. As
Toby listens to his parents being so cordial, he feels
a kind of dread because he knows cordial is not
(11:48):
how things will end. It's like listening to the beginning,
he says, of a horror story. What do you don
so how did things deteriorate?
Speaker 10 (11:59):
So?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
How did they get so bad with that question in
mind before you head with the tapes. Yeah, so okay,
I'll play you. Uh well, Toby always knew his dad
to be a pretty detached person. On the night the
divorce becomes official, Doug seems genuinely lonely. The tapes capture
him phoning a friend and getting a continuous busy signal.
(12:21):
He calls back four more times until he can finally
get through.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Oh what do you guys do?
Speaker 10 (12:26):
Sit her top on the phone all night?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
No, leave it up to until people like you won't.
Speaker 13 (12:30):
Call hear what's going on?
Speaker 10 (12:33):
Dark? It's final?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
What final?
Speaker 12 (12:36):
The divorce?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Oh, it's already?
Speaker 12 (12:39):
How can it be done so quick?
Speaker 10 (12:41):
Oh?
Speaker 12 (12:41):
I'm going to do now to live with it? Did
you know I'm still going to take a lot of
time to get over it?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Sure?
Speaker 12 (12:48):
Sure? One one thing I.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
Learned people are not supposed to get divorced.
Speaker 12 (12:54):
What do you mean?
Speaker 10 (12:55):
I was always taught that if something's broken, you should fix.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It, because you know, I remember my parents and have
fight so bad.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
But you know, the found a divorce just never came up.
Speaker 10 (13:07):
Yeah, of course you'll never know the whole story, just
like Toby and Heidi will never know the whole story.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
It seems like he kind of intuitively knew that we
would always have questions, and that thread continues today.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
As we continue on beyond the divorce, Toby's wife, Lauren
joins him to listen to some of the tapes, like
this one, Hi Dad, This is a five year old
Toby on the phone with Doug. Adult Toby, hearing his
own voice, exchanges a smile with Lauren.
Speaker 10 (13:43):
Hey, hey, you got new cereal? Yeah? Yeah, what are
you trying to do? You trying to rot all your
teeth out?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Bye?
Speaker 12 (13:53):
Bye? I love you one night, Okay, I.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
Love I don't remember that kind of relationship with him,
Like what kind of relationship silly and playful and saying
I love you when you hang up the phone, Like,
I don't really remember that at all.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
The I love yous had existed, Toby had just forgotten them.
The parents on the tapes are different from the parents
Toby remembers in other ways too.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
How to bring along her care bear blanket too.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Not only are they working as a team, but Terry
sounds clear headed and on top of things.
Speaker 10 (14:39):
Yeah, she wrote it on some bog and it's like
a bedspread type. Yeah, it's the one.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Well, it goes on a little bed.
Speaker 10 (14:47):
Tobby knows who Robert is.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
That's who he's bowling the doubles with, and make sure
he gets a ten ball.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Whenever Terry calls to talk to the kids at Dougs,
young Toby runs to the phone.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Toby, I suppose so okay, I'll don't get through the son.
Speaker 7 (15:08):
I guess him right here here.
Speaker 10 (15:13):
Oh that was good.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
One another again, yad thirsty?
Speaker 7 (15:24):
Are you really gurgling?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I really got ruper.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And whenever they say goodbye, Terry, just like Doug tells
Toby how much she loves him, I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Love you bye bye, love you bye bye. I love you,
love you do.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's a little bit.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
It's a little bit sad knowing what happened in her
life over the next ten or fifteen years. Like my
memories and my mom don't have any of that lightheartedness
or happiness to him.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I remember a lot more.
Speaker 10 (15:58):
Of the.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Of the bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
The bad stuff continued into Toby's young adulthood. Not long
before she died, Toby saw his mother at a family Thanksgiving.
Toby was in college and it just dyed his hair black.
Terry was so out of it that she didn't recognize him,
and she.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Looked at me and said hi, and then like turned
away and was like, where's Toby at? And it's like, well,
I'm right here. My hair is a different color, but
I'm still here. And that's a core memory.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I think.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
I think that was the last time I saw her.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
You know that story, Lauren.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I didn't remember that story.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It's not a fun Friday night conversation.
Speaker 7 (16:48):
I've noticed today as we've been talking about stuff, like
you'll get choked up and then you know you've got
to sort of diffuse it, like you smile afterwards.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm thinking of like, it's a funny joke I can
put in here now.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Knowing how Toby tends to brush over difficult feelings, the
next clip I play him feels like one of those
origin stories you'd see in a superhero film.
Speaker 10 (17:16):
Toby Stop.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Doug is on hold with joe Anne, the babysitter.
Speaker 10 (17:23):
Okay, we'll get your jammies on that. Allen, shove up.
Act a little happier. Acts a little happier.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Okay, hello, Joanne, Act a little happier. The marching orders
Toby would continue to obey all the way into his adulthood.
But when Toby listens to the tape, I think it's funny.
All he can do is laugh it off. Shall we continue?
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Hellow, we're here.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
This is Toby's sister Heidi, asking Doug if can have
dinner with her at her mother's house.
Speaker 10 (18:02):
No, I don't think. I don't think too. Why I
don't go over her anymore?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Hyle you over you?
Speaker 10 (18:13):
Well? I don't eat Tipper over there?
Speaker 14 (18:16):
Why?
Speaker 10 (18:17):
Because of your mom and I are divorced?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Why they're true?
Speaker 12 (18:22):
Oil?
Speaker 10 (18:23):
I don't know. I will understand it better when we're older.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
In spite of Toby's being older, in spite of cassette
tapes unspooling lives, there are many questions Toby will never
have the answers to. But then one day, while going
through the tapes, I come across one answer to a
big question. How things between Doug and Terry got so bad?
(18:51):
It happened after the divorce on one particular evening in
April of nineteen eighty eight. Suddenly I can see the
whole arc of the relationships fall. The recordings are heavy
and scheduling these tape listening sessions over zoom. During Toby's
lunch breaks no longer feels appropriate, and so I have
a new idea. I decide I'll travel to Portland, where
(19:13):
Toby lives, so we can sit down together and over
the course of a dedicated weekend play these last tapes
in person.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh gosh, oh okay.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
After the break Portland, Hello, Hello, Toby, Lauren and I
(19:49):
meet in a hotel suite in downtown Portland. Ah, Lauren
and Toby sit next to each other on the couch.
We all don our headphones to listen so we can starts.
If that's good with you, guys. Yeah, and so we
dive into that pivotal evening from nineteen eighty eight in April.
(20:12):
For the first time we hear Doug narrating directly into
the recorder. It's because this is the moment when he
knows he's not merely documenting as a precaution, but potentially
preparing evidence.
Speaker 12 (20:27):
In her house alone. That's when I called the police.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It seems that Terry left Toby and Heidi at home
all by themselves one night, and Doug called the police.
Toby remembers that night.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
We were at mom's house.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Yeah, and she went I don't know how long she
was gone, but I was like five, I got scared
and I called my dad and I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
He was going to call the police or whatever.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
So my mom came home at some point and then
like the police came by.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Toby doesn't recall his dad talking to him about what happened,
but it seems he did.
Speaker 12 (21:05):
Are you upset about last night? And see? I called
the police because I don't think you guys should be
left there alone. And I didn't know what else to
do because I can't go in your mom's house, okay.
Speaker 10 (21:22):
But the.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
House they said we might get taken away to go
to your house.
Speaker 12 (21:30):
I don't think you will because I don't think your
mom will leave you alone anymore. And that's good because
you know, when you're older, I think you guys need
to be left alone. But not when you guys threw
this yim.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You know you.
Speaker 12 (21:45):
I know, I know, but you were scared, and I
was scared for you.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Terry, on the other hand, didn't think there was anything
to be scared of. When she calls Doug sometime later
to talk to the kids, how do he brings up
that night and Terry explains it this way, Well.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Come when hang left, no pay because I had to
go check out my work and I was gone for
fifteen minutes. Haven't you ever been left alone before you
were asleep? You didn't even know it. And if Toby
had been asleep, do you know what? I would not
have left at all. But I thought Toby was old
(22:23):
enough that he could sit here for fifteen minutes by
himself and watch the movie he was watching without freaking out.
But obviously not.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Pretty shitty to put that on me, a six year
old who got scared.
Speaker 11 (22:42):
So now that just caused the big that caused a big, big,
big big problem. You still through the whole thing, Heidi,
Toby knows all about it, and from now on your
debit or never believe you guys learned either?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Never ever?
Speaker 11 (22:56):
If he does, you call me how come you did?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Because honey, you were absolete for the night. But that's
the half kind of fine. The house, I wasn't gonna
catch them far. We got that. How many? We've got
two smoke alarms downstairs here, don't we? And we scored
about the house. One catch the fire with fast climate matches?
Are you guys gonna play with matches?
Speaker 12 (23:17):
But that's the right.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
We got all new wiring in the.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
House Because of what happened that night, Family Services paid
a visit to Terry's house, but nothing came of it.
Legally that was that. Still, Terry felt betrayed by Doug.
Here they are later that week relitigating.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Are you flying for full cut? Are you gonna doll
at that?
Speaker 10 (23:49):
What?
Speaker 12 (23:50):
I want you to straighten your act up?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
My app big war straight Why.
Speaker 11 (23:58):
You made that yet?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Four year old?
Speaker 12 (24:01):
A six year old alone?
Speaker 11 (24:03):
I left four I was begun for some of them.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Hoar.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
She didn't sound sober.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
I think my sister and I were there with her
at that point, like she was taking care of us.
Speaker 12 (24:24):
What was probably doing up at eleven o'clock on the
school right?
Speaker 11 (24:28):
What was because one of the.
Speaker 12 (24:31):
Welcome the other day you said you were going to
kill yourself. If I had gut see kids, I would never.
Speaker 11 (24:38):
Tell my own, you know how religious boot star.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
What begins is anguish hardens into anger. A few weeks later,
Terry phones Dog and accuses him of being out at
a bar called Windy O'Leary's.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, that's Heary. We are you hanging out Winny o'larry's.
Should I call the cops on you? You're told the
wanting to talk to you. I think that's a little
bit of neglect. I didn't really call it a bitch
or anything, but what I do want to say is this,
I don't like standing on my front porch spying. I
told you to park in front of the house, and
that's exactly what I meant. And if you can't get
in an answer with the honk, then you just better
(25:16):
start hollering in the door to behind it, because far
as I did it, it was fying to listen to
what was going on in the house. So yeah, I'm
a little upset, and I've been upset and I've been
holding it in. And that's just the kind of mood
I'm in, and that's just the kind of.
Speaker 11 (25:29):
Mood that I have been holding within.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
So why did I just give a call?
Speaker 11 (25:35):
We know a Larius and see if you'll answer?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Goodbye?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So this next clip is the last tape between them.
It's a long one. Let's let's listen if you if
you're ready, I think so.
Speaker 10 (25:57):
That's very important I got hold of. You know, is
there a problem?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Can they talk to you about the month of June?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
The month of June? This is where the argument begins.
Doug has custody in June, but Terry has registered Toby
for summer softball. Doug says the problem there is that
he and the kids will be out of town for
two weeks in June. So Terry says, well, great, if
Toby's going to miss that much softball, he'll probably end
up with some horrible position like right field, and his
(26:22):
self esteem will be shot to hell.
Speaker 10 (26:25):
You know that the kids come here in June and
you just scheduled it.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
The damn league scheduled at that. Well, you didn't contact me, Okay,
certicipate in any summer sports? Is that what you're saying?
What's that Toby can never participate in any summer sports
his whole life till he's eighteen.
Speaker 10 (26:42):
No, I didn't say anything like that. I said I
would like to know. I find that.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Let's let the child be just an invalid hum be
a vegetaball all summer.
Speaker 10 (26:50):
What.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Terry wants to change the custody agreements so she can
take Toby to the softball games, but Doug says he's
already booked the childcare he'll need for the whole month here.
Speaker 10 (27:02):
Yeah, Terry, now I am, I'm not following. Don't wait
a second, let me talk.
Speaker 12 (27:06):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (27:07):
Joanne and Caprice have scheduled their time around when they
can watch my kids, Caprice our kids. Okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So Terry turns it back on Doug. Okay, she says,
if I can't see the kids in June, then you
won't see them in July.
Speaker 10 (27:25):
Yes, I will see them.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
How maybe my men is still left.
Speaker 10 (27:29):
I can see them on weekends my normal visitation.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Okay, I'll have to look at up because I do
tend to look every little thing up.
Speaker 10 (27:38):
Are you going to look up about the school that
you pull them out of?
Speaker 3 (27:42):
School?
Speaker 12 (27:42):
Is getting paid off?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
In those early calls, Doug and Terry tended to resolve
their disagreements in just a few minutes, But now they
go on fighting for over half an hour straight. Terry
begins to leave from one unrelated grievance to the next.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
The other day, God damn it, Jonathan walked Toby home
from kindergarten.
Speaker 10 (28:00):
Yeah, capriest went too.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Caprice did not take them home. Toby told me this,
that's not true. Oh Toby lied. You know, Toby, he
is not a liar. When I walked to her, also
to talk to the kids Friday afternoon, Caprice, after you
can get up the phone, Get up the own kids,
get up the phone, get off the phone, because I
always make a point of calling them on Friday and Saturday,
(28:22):
which I don't see you making a.
Speaker 10 (28:23):
Point of calling the kids during the week.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
But when I call, I don't appreciate the babies. They
were telling the kids to get off the phone. Now
I don't appreciate. Also, you standing on my front porch
hearing what's going on inside of my house. To me,
that is fine and low down and dirty. You were
standing with one foot on the porch and one.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And then finally Terry raises the thing that really underlies
her rage, the night of the police, when two weeks.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Ago, in the cops with here, you couldn't even come
up to check on your own son's welfare when you
were supposedly so dimnn concerned. So what's the difference. I mean,
either you're gonna do it or you're not gonna do it.
That's kind of double.
Speaker 10 (28:59):
Standards, because I don't think it would have been a
good idea to make a big scene.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Oh, make a big scene when you're taken upstairs and
talk to the cops. You know, four policemen. You don't
consider that a big scene. Four cops, right, that's Orange said,
four cops is a big scene.
Speaker 10 (29:17):
What I consider big was leaving the kids alone.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But you don't know our lifestyle. You don't know our situation,
and no.
Speaker 10 (29:25):
Second lifestyle has nothing to do with it. You don't
leave a four year old and a six year old
in a house alone in the middle of the night,
let alone in the middle.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Of the day, Copsas has it ever happened before?
Speaker 11 (29:35):
No?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
And another thing that has or still is that you did, Doug.
Was you sitting around, actually sitting around? Actually nobody can
believe this in your suit, kai your jacket, your dress pants,
your dress shoes and all that at eleven o'clock at night.
Speaker 10 (29:51):
Yeah, it was a matter of fact, as you were.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
As a matter of fact.
Speaker 10 (29:54):
No, I didn't. I didn't have a tie on.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
No you had a tie on when you was out
here in front of my house.
Speaker 10 (29:59):
No I didn't.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I had How can we see it? She was so
far away when they came up here and check on Toby.
Speaker 12 (30:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Sure, I mean, do you talk so serious that the
kids you guys ever laugh? I know you do a
lot of things that the kids. I know you guys
go to zoo, and I know you guys go boating,
and I know the kids enjoy it. But I also
know they're getting to spoiled little burger bets over a
lot of things too. They're getting expected a little bit
too my child life, I think. But is there any
humor and laughter in their life? Or is it all
(30:26):
materialism and soberness. I don't know what's going on? But
why is it? The other day Toby didn't for the
first time, Toby didn't want to go to your house?
And why did Toby draw a picture of the devil
and say it was you? How do you have to bead?
Speaker 10 (30:44):
Dream?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Last night? And it was at your house?
Speaker 10 (30:46):
That's the dream was?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
What is going on? I am really concerned.
Speaker 10 (30:50):
Yeah, I don't know. The kids hold a lot of anger.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
They don't hold a lot of anger here. Everything's funky
dory here. As matter of fact, laugh to night. The
kids have woke up with bad dreams, and both nights
have been dreams. Had something to do with the house.
Speaker 10 (31:06):
Well, they don't wake up with bad dreams over here.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
They sleep as well from over there. They're not dreams here.
You know, I'm thinking, is there a perversion going on
or what?
Speaker 10 (31:18):
Well, I think that's pretty strong allegation.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I don't hear the allegation, but I wonder.
Speaker 10 (31:23):
Well, exactly what are you trying to say?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I had it happen to me? Is there a friend
of yours that you are maybe think that's a good
friend of yours? You maybe not be a friend good
friend as you think?
Speaker 10 (31:34):
Well, I think you're wrong.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
No, that's that's not impossible. That it's not impossible.
Speaker 10 (31:45):
How can you comprehend leaving a four and a six
year old at home alone.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
For fifteen minutes? And you know what? The DCFS worker
died laughing. She said, tell me, do you know why
I'm here? He says yes, because I have no sense
of time till tell me. I'll be right back.
Speaker 10 (31:59):
I ran three blocks.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I was right back.
Speaker 10 (32:01):
Well, you don't leave a four year old care because,
by God, the first time, there won't be no cops involved.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
It'll be me and my family involved. Because nobody in
my family can believe they said right or wrong. They
can't believe that you called in the outside.
Speaker 10 (32:19):
Your family thinks it's okay to leave kids alone.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
No, but they think you should have come over yourself.
But no, you can't even come up on the front porch, Terry.
The police, the police.
Speaker 10 (32:30):
Did not want me to come up on the front porch.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
The police didn't want you to come talk to your
own son. Did they say that, Terry? No? Did they
say that they.
Speaker 10 (32:41):
Got the information they needed? They told me they thought
it would be best if I left.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Did you say, well, I would like to talk to
my son. Did you take the police advice, Terry.
Speaker 10 (32:53):
I'm not gonna argue no, No.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I want to know how much you care about tell
me you took the police advice over your own son's welfare.
I personally, I don't know. Maybe it's the maternal instinct.
I would have said, well, can I at least see
my son or talk to him?
Speaker 10 (33:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
But the police advice when the police got thousands and
thousands of thousands of calls to make and only one son.
Speaker 10 (33:22):
My own concern for Toby is why why the police
were at your house. You don't leave a four year
old at six year old place.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Why didn't you just track your suit, tie, shoes, and
your jacket over here in the first place. I did,
you would have been here before they would have been here,
I was you was here before they was here. Yeah,
that just goes to show me that your concern is
not what your son is, but how it looks reflex
(33:52):
on you. First time I ever ever left the kids,
they told that lady that they told the policeman that
they told you that. I can't even begin to tell
you my anger about this.
Speaker 10 (34:03):
Well, that's good because I'm not gonna allow you to
do that.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
You're not gonna allow me kiss my ass. I don't
ever gonna happen again.
Speaker 10 (34:11):
I don't regret calling the police when you call the.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Police, Okay, fine, anything ever happens, I call the police
on you. Then neither one of us have children. How
do you like them? Apples? You want to calling up
on organizations?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
That's tip cut off, Tip cuts off. It's not at
the end of the cassette. The tape abruptly cuts off
in a way that suggests Doug had pressed stop. For
all of his rigor and scrupulousness and recording, It's like
this moment was just too painful to document. In the end,
(34:49):
Doug never needed the tape for evidence, as there was
no court case. Terry agreed to allow him full custody
without contest when Toby was in the third grade, he
and Heidi went to with their dad for good Toby
sits in silence, taking in what he just heard. Lauren
studies his face.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
The thing I just get pulled back to again and
again is like, that's my person in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
It's really hard.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
I wish there were like better words. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Toby's always been grateful to his dad for taking him
out of a bad situation, but hearing this conversation, he says,
he suddenly understands the extent of what his dad was
dealing with and why it might have been so important
that Doug remained the stolid one in the face of
so much intensity. Perhaps someone had to be My.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Mom was being awful, just being pretty awful.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Jerry and good.
Speaker 13 (35:57):
They were happy, They were happy until she was.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
This is Toby's aunt, Tracy, Terry's sister. I reached out
to her to try to get more context for some
of the things Terry says in the tapes. Specifically, Tracy
was able to explain the abuse that Terry referenced.
Speaker 13 (36:13):
My parents' best friends that mom and dad ran around
with all the time. It was that man, the husband
and Terry never told because she absolutely loved the lady
and loved going over there and hanging out with her.
Speaker 10 (36:28):
She just just loved her.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
It wasn't until well into Terry's adulthood that the truth
came out. She called her parents one night and told
them what their friend had done to her all those
years ago. Her parents didn't know what to do, so
they did nothing. Terry's boyfriend at the time convinced her
to phone the man's wife. They called together and.
Speaker 13 (36:49):
They told her these people are still married. And I
guess in a day or two found out that she
had confronted.
Speaker 11 (36:59):
The name, and.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Just a few days later the husband died by suicide.
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Told her it was true suicide. Oh my yeah.
Speaker 13 (37:13):
I think that was one of Terry's demons. I think
that his mom lived with a lot of regrets.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
I think she died with a lot of regrets.
Speaker 13 (37:31):
I mean, it's sad I look back and how sad
it is that the kids didn't have her growing up.
Anybody that's in addiction don't want to be an addiction.
That addiction was always dumber than her. I'd believe with
my whole heart if she could come back today and
go okay, let's do this over. It would have been
(37:51):
an amazing mom.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
The argument about the police was the last tape between
Toby's parents, but there are two other tapes. Tapes that
were not recorded surreptitiously. You were recorded explicitly for Toby
is a.
Speaker 13 (38:12):
Bore start on Friday next to eighty one.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
This is a tape that Terry made recounting the story
of Toby's birth directly to him.
Speaker 15 (38:22):
DEVI and I've got a whole viewing Xcus.
Speaker 11 (38:25):
That was your dad recurring.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I was just so happy because this tape was found
among Doug's things. Because Terry sounds so young and optimistic,
you can tell that this was recorded years before the divorce,
back when things were different. Terry explains how she and
Doug got into a spat and it's what I argument,
but then swore to never argue in front of Toby
(38:49):
again and.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Incent police but we don't like it, and soth.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Main we made it. All these years later, it's hard
for Toby to picture his parents as people who were
once in love, who could argue and then make up,
who cared about him in tandem. In two thousand and three,
Terry died from complications due to addiction. The lasting image
(39:18):
Toby has of his two parents finally sharing the same
room took place at her funeral. Toby was surprised to
see his dad seated at the back of the church.
Doug left as soon as the service was over, and
Toby could never figure out why his father had shown
up at all. Maybe it was for the Terry he
used to love. Maybe it was for their kids. Me
(39:39):
and you naw kid, No, mister an, let's get this sleeper.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
You come.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
The final tape I play for Toby is one of
Toby himself as a baby with his parents.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
You get the tickets, yo, you get the hiccups.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
This is pretty tricky getting his clothes on you would
use for him and all our.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Arm In another part of the tape, Terry sings to
a baby Toby.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
See Toby, Gene, I'm so lovely, Jean.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
And I need to be Gene.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
We never pad so Hello, Toby.
Speaker 10 (40:20):
Gen.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Give.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I didn't want to put a kid through what I
went through as a kid.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Even back when he was just a kid himself, Toby
remembers thinking, when I'm an adult, it won't be like this.
When I have my own kids, I'm going to do
things so much differently, and now he does have kids,
a six year old and a nine year old.
Speaker 6 (40:47):
Something that has always been important to me is like stability.
That's something I've intentionally built into my life. Yeah, because
I knew what it was like to be a kid
and not have that. And I think we've built a
really good life for us and our family and our kids.
Speaker 7 (41:12):
Tobya told me a story from when he was a
kid closed to do BMX racing, and you should tell
the story.
Speaker 5 (41:21):
How to answer your story calling.
Speaker 6 (41:25):
Yeah, so I wanted to do BMX racing really bad.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I'd seen it on TV. I was like, that's the
coolest thing ever. I want to do this. And so my.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Dad called the one bike shop in our town and
was like, is there any BMX around or whatever? And
they're like nope. And then I never got to do BMX.
But our six year old really is into it, and
so like, I've got him.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
I'll be an ex bike can work.
Speaker 15 (42:08):
Sorry, We're like, I'm going to a skate park all
the time, and he's in mountain bike classes and yeah,
doing that stuff for him that like, it's clear to
me that my dad.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Went the extra mile in the ways that he could.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
I want to do that for my kids.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
So he doesn't get emotional very often. This is the
most I've ever seen him emotional. And we've been through
some life together. You're sleep good tonight, buddy.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
Like you know, this is this type of emotional work
that's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, maybe, said Doug. Well, I know stand it better
when we're older, which is something that people just say.
But in this case, Doug inadvertently left something behind to
make that understanding possible and yet to become the dad
that he is, to give the things that he didn't get.
(43:16):
Toby didn't need the tapes at all.
Speaker 5 (43:24):
Just really proud of you, Toby, Thank.
Speaker 14 (43:28):
You because I know that you feel that way.
Speaker 7 (43:54):
Now that the furniture's riturned to its goodwill, now that the.
Speaker 14 (44:04):
Last months rant is scheming with.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
The damage to pozzle, take this moment to deserve.
Speaker 14 (44:14):
If we if we too.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Felt around for far.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
From things accidentally.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
This episode of Heavyweight was produced by senior producer Khalila
Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our
supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistants by Mohemy Micgauker.
Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Alex Bloomberg,
Max Green, Blythe Terrell, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed
the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson,
(44:52):
and he himself, Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be
found on our website Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our
theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records.
Heavyweight is a Spotify original podcast. Follow us on Twitter
at Heavyweight, on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast, or email us
at Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. You can also follow
(45:15):
our show on Spotify and tap the bell to receive
notifications when new episodes drop. We'll be back next week
with a new episode.
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