May 7, 2026 • 48 mins
When Christina was in 11th grade, her foster mother made her quit playing basketball. After that, she felt like her life never got back on course. And so, she’s always wanted to ask her foster mother: why’d you make me quit?
Now, 9 years after the episode originally aired, we check back in with Christina, and she tells us about seeing her foster mother one last time.
You can sign up for our free newsletter at patreon.com/heavyweight
This episode was produced by Jonathan Goldstein and Kalila Holt, with editing by Jorge Just, Alex Blumberg, and Wendy Dorr. The senior producer is Kaitlin Roberts. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, and Jackie Cohen. The show was mixed by Kate Bilinski. Music by Christine Fellows, John K Samson, and Edwin, with additional music by Blue Dot Sessions and Hew Time. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records. Mixing on this update by Sarah Bruguiere.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You know, when you meditate, you're supposed to acknowledge the
breath and put a name to it, like that was
a small breath, that was a big breath. If I
had to put a name to that, hello, I would
say hesitantly, cheerful.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That's a part of my meditation, is naming your hellos.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Kind of weird, but uh, all right, we're going to
revisit another great episode today.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Hit me.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's called Christina.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh yeah, it's truly one of my favorite episodes.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, it's a really good one.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Uh yeah, I love it. I will say this and
maybe you can confirm this fact check me on this.
But this was an early season two episode, and up
until this point, I had largely worked with people that
I already knew, like friends and family, and this this
was the first time that I was actually like traveling
(01:15):
out in the world to meet someone.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, and I'll never forget. But when they met me
at the airport, Christina and her husband LEVI, I just
remember like seeing the look of hope and respect almost
in their eyes. Yeah, and I just felt like, oh
my god, these poor people, like I don't deserve that
look at all. But I really better get it together.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And then you've gotten it together for ten years now.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You know what I do. I look at myself in
the bathroom mirror and I slap myself in the face
and I say, get it together.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Buy.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, it's working, so I guess keep doing that. Yeah, well,
enjoyed the episode, and afterwards we're going to hear from
Christina what she's up to now.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yes, we're gonna get a nice update about what Christina's
life has been like and the impact that participating in
the episode had on her. Oh but if we could
reverse the process and eat our dessert before we move
on to the main course, A word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Hello, Hey, do you have a copy of TV Guide?
Speaker 5 (02:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
No, Why I can't find my copy? And I was
wondering what was on TV? Don't you don't you remember?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Don't you remember?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Don't wait?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Don't you remember calling people up on the phone?
Speaker 5 (02:50):
I do remember that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Just to see what was on I remember calling on
my Antille because I was too I was too lazy
to get up off the couch to look for the
TV Guide, so I just called her up. Woman could
hardly walk and she had to search around for a
TV guide from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this
(03:16):
is Heavyweight Today's episode. Christina, this is the best of
all possible worlds. My father was fond of saying. The
(03:37):
words were spoken contentedly, often while reclining in a barca
lounger belt buckle undone after a large meal of baked
beans and lamb chops. But what did my father know
of other worlds? He'd held down the same job and
was married to the same woman for decades plus. He
hardly left the house. But what he did know was
(03:59):
that this world had one thing over all of those
other worlds. It existed from my father, that was enough
to make it best. I, on the other hand, am
not one over so easily.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Existence is a nice quality, a fine quality, but going
so far as to call a world that contains both
soul patches and puddles the best possible anything seems a
little extreme, and so imagining other worlds the same, only
better is just too irresistible. In spite of the pain
(04:38):
such thinking inevitably invites. Why don't we start from the beginning? Okay,
this is Christina, and like me, she knows this world
can use a few tweaks. Overall, she says her life
hasn't been a bad one, it's just not the one
she was meant to live. She's worked as a waitress,
a receptionist, as a home care worker, the kinds of
(05:01):
jobs you do, but not necessarily the kind you dream about. Lately,
she's been helping run her husband's company.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It's a a disc golfing backpack company.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Say sorry, say that again. It's a what disc golf
backpack is? What is disc golf?
Speaker 8 (05:18):
It's like ball golf, but instead of balls and clubs,
you have frisbees.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Oh, when you say ball golf, you're talking about golf golf.
Speaker 7 (05:24):
Like a regular golf.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, okay, I've never heard it referred to distinguished as
ball golf, but I.
Speaker 7 (05:30):
Will only disc golfers call it ball golf.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So, but how do you how do you get a
frisbee in a golf hole?
Speaker 7 (05:36):
No, it's actually not a hole, it's a basket.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Oh, my goodness. Before she started pining after better worlds,
Christina was focused on just one, the world of small
town Western Canada.
Speaker 7 (05:49):
I lived with my mom. She was a single mom.
Speaker 8 (05:52):
My dad left when I was around one, and my
mom was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Christina was just a kid, so a lot of it's
now fuzzy, but she remembers bits of things, her mom
going off her meds and beginning to hear voices, her
mom waking her in the middle of the night and
saying they had to leave right away. She remembers running
with her mom down dark streets.
Speaker 8 (06:15):
She started becoming violent and she would just, you know,
hit me with the phone handle, or this one time
she came after me with a high heeled shoe. There's
no food in the house. She wouldn't do laundry, like
the dirty clothes would pile up in the living room,
Like I remember this massive mound of dirty clothes, and
(06:36):
I remember this kid made fun of me for having
dirty pants, and so I started stealing clothes just so
I could have clean clothes to go to school.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
When you were a kid trying to survive on your own,
the unthinkable can start to seem normal. To escape her house,
Christina took a job caring for two boys not much
younger than herself. She became a twelve year old live
in nanny.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
So I ended up moving in with this family and
looking after the boys. They paid me a little bit
and I quit school to be a nanny.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
When she stopped showing up at school, social services removed
Christina from the nannying house, but instead of bringing her
back to her mom, they took her to a foster home.
She was sent to live with an older couple and
their grandson. They lived on the fancier side of town
in a house decorated with candleholders and decorative pistols. The
(07:35):
foster mother was a woman named Isabelle. Her grandson, David,
was the golden boy who could do no wrong. From
day one, Christina struggled for Isabelle's approval.
Speaker 8 (07:46):
My foster mother and I kind of butted heads a
little bit or a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Although Isabelle was only an inch taller, Christina was scared
of her. Her foster mother communicated through rules and punishments.
Speaker 7 (08:01):
She was very strict.
Speaker 8 (08:04):
Fris five minutes late for curfew, I would be grounded
for a month.
Speaker 7 (08:07):
It felt like I was always grounded.
Speaker 8 (08:10):
And afraid all the time, and kind of walking on eggshells,
and yeah, just feeling always really intimidated and scared.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I was always scared, and when she got scared, Christina
would go silent. As a result, she never once stood
up to Isabelle. It was while living in Isabelle's world
that another better world presented itself to Christina. A world
(08:44):
with rules that were easy to understand, a world where
someone was always keeping score and keeping things fair. This
was the eighty four x fifty foot world of a
basketball court.
Speaker 8 (08:55):
I can't explain how much I was obsessed with basketball.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
I would practice at like six in the morning at
the school.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I would practice on weekends.
Speaker 8 (09:05):
I'd watch the NBA games with Clyde the Glide and
Charles Barkley. Then my name was in the paper a
few times. I think I have some paper clippings of
like high scoring.
Speaker 7 (09:15):
I loved, loved, loved basketball.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
On the basketball court, Christina was never scared. It was
a place where, for the first time in her life,
she felt in control and confident. Her foster brother, David,
a popular jock, spent hours helping her get better. She
joined a team and quickly became a high scorer. Eventually
she was made team captain.
Speaker 8 (09:37):
They would always put me inside, like I would always
have to guard the post.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
When Christina talks about basketball, she lights up, and I
want to encourage her to keep talking by asking questions.
But my only real knowledge of basketball comes from watching
the Harlem Globetrotters. I was in my thirties before I
learned it was illegal to bring stilts onto the court,
so my questions are limited.
Speaker 8 (09:57):
We tall no only five to six. But I guess
I kind of had this unrealistic view of myself where
I thought I was taller than I was because off court,
I was like kind of meek, and I'd just follow
the crowd and I wouldn't create any waves. I didn't
(10:19):
really have an opinion, but on the court I was
a force to be reckoned with. It was like the
only time where I felt powerful.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
It was around this time that a plan began to
take shape. If she kept practicing and kept winning, she'd
get a basketball scholarship. Christina knew that was her only
hope of getting into college.
Speaker 8 (10:44):
I wanted to get out of that circle of welfare
and illness and living from paycheck to paycheck and just
feeling just being poor.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
It sucked, which brings us to the moment that thirty
years later, Christina still can't stop thinking about. She'd just
come home from school when Isabelle called her into the kitchen,
sat her down at the table, and presented her with
an ultimatum.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
She said, you have to get your grades up.
Speaker 8 (11:13):
You have to work harder at school, and so in
order for me to be able to play basketball the
following year, which would have been eleventh grade, I had
to have an average of a bee in every class.
But I was really bad at math and chemistry, and
I didn't make it. I wasn't allowed to play basketball.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
What she remembers most about that time was watching a
lot of TV and overeating and the chores. After forcing
Christina to quit the basketball team, Isabelle handed her chores
that felt like ironic punishments from the Judy Bloom version
of Dante's Inferno. She had to bake cookies for the family,
but because of her weight gain, she wasn't allowed to
(11:59):
eat any. And when she dusted the house, Isabelle instructed
her to pick up David's basketball trophies, dust each one,
and dust the shelf underneath. All the while, Christina felt
her loss acutely of basketball and the better world had promised.
Speaker 8 (12:17):
She took something from me that I've not been able
to get back.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
What is that thing?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (12:26):
And I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I don't.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
When I say that out loud, it sounds ridiculous, but
it feels like that passion for something it dashed this
huge dream that I had for my life.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Christina still wonders why why did Isabelle take away basketball?
The only thing that really mattered to her, that would
have given her a better life, But all these years
she's been too afraid to ask.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
She's going to be ninety five in July. The thought
of talking to her about it petrifies me a little bit,
like there's still a part of me that is scared
of her, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And what do you want?
Speaker 8 (13:17):
I think, Yeah, I think I want to know, like
why she made my life so difficult, if it was
just to break me down, if she had some kind
of thing against me.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And what do you want to hear her say?
Speaker 8 (13:36):
I guess I want to just hear her say that
she just genuinely wanted me to have better grades.
Speaker 7 (13:44):
But I know that that's just such bs.
Speaker 8 (13:48):
For whatever reason, I've let go of a lot of
things that have happened, but for whatever reason, this one thing,
the basketball thing, not letting me play basketball. I'm having
such a hard time letting go of that and forgiving her.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
I want to let it go.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So you want to go talk to her?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You and you want me to come?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I get really meely mouthed when I'm in the same
room as like strong willed, scary older women. I'll tell
you that right now, not going to be much help.
Speaker 7 (14:20):
So we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It sounds like we're doing it all right. We're gonna
go talk to that scary lady after the break. How
much mincing can a mealie mouth mince when a meei
mouth meets a menacing miss who writes this stuff? I
guess I do. Once I gave Christina my word that
(14:52):
i'd help, I approached CEO and Gimblet founder Alex Bloomberg
to ask if he could fly me to the British
Columbian Interior to confront a ninety five year old woman
about something she may or may not have said some
thirty years ago, to which Alex asked, why are you
always standing just outside the door whenever I get out
of the bathroom, And I said it was a coincidence,
(15:12):
although I might have pronounced it quinky dink to be playful,
and he asked how long. This trip would take me
out of the office, and I said a week, and
he said to take longer if I needed it. So
I was off to Canada. Tail denos a.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
Deploire you I speak you too.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I meet Christina and her husband Levi at the Colonna
Airport in British Columbia. They'd just flown in from Portland,
and the look of trust on their faces is daunting.
When meeting new people, especially people I'm about to help,
I'm more comfortable with looks of skepticism or anticipatory disappointment.
Trust was disconcerting.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes, I have a reservation.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
It was an hour and a half drive to Isabelle's,
so we made our way to the airport rental desk
to get a car Goldstein g old.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I just asked, who that is there?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Oh, it's just a we're doing a radio story.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
So I'm just do you mind turning that.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Off and putting away?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
If I couldn't even stand up to the car rental clerk,
what hope did I have of helping Christina stand up
to Isabelle.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
It's hot in here, I say.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
It's been well over two years since Christina's seen Isabelle.
She's feeling anxious, so I try to keep the mood positive.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I bet the.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Thrift stores are really good around here. I point out
foreign license plates, and because we're in a foreign country,
there are many pretty Have you guys been watching this
show called little Big Lies or big little lies or
(17:14):
little big Lies?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Well set?
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Isabelle lives on the ground floor of a squat apartment
block mostly inhabited by seniors. We wait. When no one answers,
we ring the bell. The door opens. I heard you
(17:48):
the first time, Isabelle says. Christina smiles in spite of herself.
She can't help but get a kick out of Isabelle.
Isabelle peers up at us from behind her walker. Christina's husband,
Levi makes introductions. Isabel Hi, how are you doing?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Oh that?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Oh? Is me reacting to Isabelle's handshake, a surprisingly powerful
thing that yanks me through the doorframe. Although a diminutive
woman with white, puffy hair and wire rim glasses, Isabelle's
just established herself as the alpha. Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Okay, you seem to be doing great. I'm doing not
bad for you, know my age.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I guess Isabelle's apartment is tidy and dim, decorated with
candles that haven't been lit in years. We slowly follow
her down a narrow hallway to her living room, where
she seats herself in a faded blue mechanized armchair. On
the drive over, Christina mentioned that Isabelle is legally blind,
but I misremember this as Isabelle being legally deaf, so
(18:57):
I compliment her on how well she's following along. Well,
I'm not talking very loud, and you you've been able
to hear everything.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So I did see there's nothing wrong with my ears right.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
And you did not. To recover from this faux pas,
I offer Isabelle a chance to feel my face run
her hands through my beard, which is something I think
I saw done in The Miracle Worker. If ever, you
want to feel my stubble or.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I don't go running around feeling beards.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I decide that now is as good a time as
any to offer around the airport treats I bought during
my layover. I brought some refreshments, since I don't want
to put Isabelle out by asking for a party tray.
I scoot my travel socks and underwear to the side
of my backpack and proffer them straight from the bag,
some chocolate covered nuts and such.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Not right now, thank you?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
No, okay, I'll leave him in the bag. If I've
learned anything from my work in the business of forcing
people to ask terrifying questions, it was that it's always
best to just get it over with. Ask the question,
why did you ruin my life? Get the answer, and
(20:15):
head back to the hotel bar to eat the juiciest,
fattiest tea bone steak that Gimlet Media's fourteen dollars per
diem allows. But staging is everything I need to be
off hand, subtle. Do you, Christina, do you have anything
that you you want to ask about? Or Christina looks
(20:48):
down at her hands and tightens her lips. Of course
I understand her hesitation. Isabelle is even more intimidating in
person than Christina made her out, and nothing about being
here can possibly feel much like coming home. The walls
and shelves are loaded with photos of Isabelle's children, grandchildren,
and great grandchildren, but there isn't a single photo anywhere
(21:11):
of her only foster child, Christina. To break the silence,
I asked Isabelle why she originally took Christina into her
home in the first place.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
One of my children left a child for me to raise,
my grandson. This was David. Yeah, so I thought life
was just my husband and I. We were both older.
It would be kind of very dull for him. So
I thought that having someone else around the house would
make it a little more homey for him. But I
(21:44):
hadn't chosen Christina. Christina was brought to me, and we're
just She was just there, this wild looking thing, seeing
a little bit of training to live in a home.
So obviously she hadn't been brought up with anything. I
just thought any child living under my roof had to
be taught.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Something, meaning like what kind of things like you mean,
normal like rules and.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well rules, yeah, the rule. I don't think that our
rules were terribly strict.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Really, I mean I felt like they were strict.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Well maybe you thought so, that most kids do, but
they were the same rules my kids had.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Christina hesitates, you can see it's hard for her to
talk back to Isabelle even now.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
But then she says, but David didn't have rules, No,
he didn't need any. He is the most perfect person
I've ever raised.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Christina, another person she happened to have raised is seated
a couple feet away from her. Christina stares ahead blankly,
not saying anything. So I press Isabelle, well, you must
have done something wrong. I mean, it's only.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Very little, or you'd be surprised how perfect he was.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Was that hard though, being like side by side with
someone who.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Is just no.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I think it was good for her.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Christina, that is that how you feel?
Speaker 7 (23:14):
It was hard? Yeah, it was really hard.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Something else that's been hard is finding the courage to
ask the question that brought her here, but Christina gives
it a shot after the break. Something else that's been
hard is finding the courage to ask the question that
brought her here. Christina gives it a shot, but after
(23:44):
some throat clearing again, she goes silent.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Go ahead, ask.
Speaker 8 (23:53):
I think the one thing that I have kind of
always wondered is do you remember I think it was
in tenth grade and I had been playing basketball and
you told me that I had to get my grades
(24:13):
up where I couldn't play basketball anymore.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Do you remember that?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
No?
Speaker 7 (24:22):
Okay, so I.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
Didn't get my grades up and I had to quit
the team.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I don't remember that at all. I don't know. I still.
Speaker 7 (24:34):
It was devastating for me.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Why did you get your grades up there?
Speaker 8 (24:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I asked Christina if she could explain to Isabelle why
losing basketball hurt so much?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
No, without crying.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
I felt like.
Speaker 8 (24:59):
It was like the one thing that I was really
good at.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Are you surprised to hear Christina talk about how much
she loved basketball?
Speaker 8 (25:11):
Like?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Was that something that you knew back then?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
No, did Christina? Did you ever express it?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I don't think she did. I don't think so. No,
I don't think you did. I think the.
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Reason why, like it still affects me now, it is
because I didn't fight for it, and.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
How could she have. She never felt like she had
the right to stop her feet, to slam the bedroom door,
in so many words, to act like someone's kid. I
thought that maybe if I could get Isabelle to put
herself in Christina's shoes, it might help her understand. Was
there anything that you can think of that's comparable from
(25:57):
your own life, Isabelle, Like something that you really felt
very passionate about, like the thing that you really that
was your great love?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Not really. I always wanted to go to school more
than I did. I really wanted a good education, which
of the country you weren't able to get.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Her father was a rancher, Isabelle says, and her mom
died when she was little, so her dad raised the
kids by himself, and Isabelle, being the eldest, had a
lot of responsibility.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I used to miss school every year when I got
us to be a certain age and had to herd cattle.
So I'd missed about two months or a month of
school every year when I was old enough to do this.
But I was first in my class from the day
I started till the day I finished. I was never
anything but first in my class.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Was that typical that a lot of kids in the
class have to miss?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
No, just me and well, we were brought up by
our dad. Men bring up children differently than women.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, and what ways? How do you mean?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I mean? My dad didn't teach me to ride horseback.
He just threw me on a horse and told me
to go. You know, a woman wouldn't do that. I
don't think, not likely. My father was quite fond of me.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Actually, Yeah, how far did you go in school?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Just? Grade nine? I took grade nine By correspondence.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
So you didn't you never ended up getting the high
school degree.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
No. Yeah, school was an important thing to me because
I felt that's how you'd make your living.
Speaker 9 (27:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
But I remember when I was through school, my stepmother
looking in the paper and she found a dish washing
job for me. She thought that I was capable of
his washing dishes in some restaurant. I felt very insulted.
It always surprised me when kids didn't want to get
all the education they possibly could.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Isabelle motions towards Christina.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
There's only so far you could go on basketball. I
always felt your education was more important. But as a kid,
sometimes you know, you don't see that. I knew. I
tried to teach her to be self sufficient because I
knew that she'd only have herself to depend upon.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Isabelle wanted to give Christina something she never got herself,
a good education, But by depriving Christina basketball, Isabelle took
away just that. At the time, though she didn't know it.
What Isabelle did know was that when Christina showed up
at her door thirty years ago, she was already in
her sixties. Isabelle was old, and if she were to die,
(29:01):
Christina would be left all alone. She'd only become a
foster child because no one in her extended family had
stepped up to take her in. She had no one else.
What did you know about Christina's childhood before she met you?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Not much of anything that I can remember. Like, her
mother was mentally ill. I guess he knows that. And
I lost my mother when I was five, and my
father eventually had a nervous breakdown, so I knew what
it was like to live with a mentally challenged person.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Oh what was it like?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Terrible? It was horrible. You didn't know if someone was
going to kill you today or tomorrow, or what the
heck was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
That's not an exaggeration. You're really were.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
No, it's not an exaggeration. I remember taking my little
brother and sister outside and trying to hide them. He
was left with five little children, Yeah, and he was
terrified that they were going to take the kids away
from him. I used to sit by his bed and
hold his hand, and one day he said to me,
(30:13):
isabel why do you keep holding my hand? And in
my own way, I was trying to let him know
that we all loved him.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Isabelle eventually placed her father in a mental hospital.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I admitted him.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Wow, and you were how old at that time?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I was about fourteen.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Wow, that's a big burden.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah it was. And I thought, here, I am fourteen,
What the hell am I doing here?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
All the while, as Isabelle talks, Christina, seated in an
armchair beside her, listens quietly, her hands gripping the armrest.
Without looking at Isabelle, she makes her presence known.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
I have many memories of visiting my mom in the
mental hospital when I was young, like seven, eight nine,
kind of age ten.
Speaker 10 (31:15):
It's weird.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
It's a really weird experience.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
To go knowing that the other people are mentally unstable.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And you can't predict what they're going to do.
Speaker 8 (31:24):
Yeah, and my mom was, you know, kind of a
zombie because of all the medication, and obviously it was
like sad and upset that she had to be there
and wasn't with me.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It was an awful place.
Speaker 8 (31:42):
It makes you grow up way too fast.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, that's right. I mean I was never a kid
until I got married and had my own kids, and
then I had a lot of fun raising my own children. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (31:53):
I think that's why I was a nanny because I
could be around kids and have a childhood with all.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
These other children. Yeah, that's what I what I did.
I grew up with my own children. That's what was
my childhood. Yeah, you know, I play with my children
just like I was one of them.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
Yeah, yeah, I did the same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
One day, one of the neighbors looked at me, one
of the little girls, and she's says, how old are you?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
These were stories that neither Christina nor Isabelle had ever
told each other. Watching them connect like this, it feels
like a good time to bring the subject back to basketball.
How much over the past thirty years, Christina's fretted over
Isabel's decision. Knowing this now, I ask Isabelle, would you
have done things differently?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Oh? I wished I had a known more about it
at the time, But I mean, I still have no
regrets about it.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It's as though Isabelle just doesn't understand what the word
regret means. So I offer a working definition. If we
were to set off in a time machine where we
could return to that time at Christina.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Say, I know what you're saying, but frankly, I don't
know what i'd do. You know. I really don't. It
would depend on what kind of a mood I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
In, if you're in the mood that you're in right now, I.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Really have no idea. I could give you a lot
of BS and tell you how good I would have been,
but it wouldn't be the truth.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I think like a lot of people would just give
Christina the BS.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, I don't do that. I usually tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Like most I can lie upwards of ten thousand times
a day. It helps ease the friction of getting through life.
People ask how I am, and I say fine, Does
this jumpsuit make my ass look fat? And I say no?
And so on, lying all the day long until bedtime,
at which point I'm not sure the lying stops. I
(34:03):
can probably lie in my dreams. In other words, I
hold lying to be the greatest gift God gave to man.
But even with all of our lies and best intentions,
we still can't escape hurting one another. I don't think
Isabelle is a cruel woman, but I do think she
knows that hurting people and being hurt is the price
(34:24):
one pays for being human.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
There is nothing out of the ordinary in our lives,
but just you know, even ordinary lives are could upsetting.
Sometimes it's a decision that was made when she was younger.
It wasn't the right one, but how many wrong decisions
are made as we go along. Regretting something is a
waste of time. You move on, find something else to
(34:50):
be passionate about.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
In spite of their similar childhoods, Isabelle and Christina see
the world so differently. Christina is a dreamer, and for her,
the best possible world is the one that's always just
out of reach. But for Isabelle, it's not about pursuing
the best possible world at all. It's about making the
best of this world, the one you're stuck in, and
(35:22):
evidently with the people you're stuck with.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I wouldn't look after her, if you know. If I
didn't care about it, it would have been different, I think,
you know. But I was interested in what she did
and how she progressed, and wanted her to do well
at school and do well in everything, and I was
very proud of her when she did. She was with
us a long time. Couldn't get rid of her. Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Isabelle pauses, and then she says, appraisingly, she deserves a
good life.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I do have one good and I think it's better
because she had some stability in it, which I feel
she got in my own.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I'll get on that side. We say our goodbyes and
head to the car. Outside Isabelle's, the parking lot has
grown dark. Thank you. Yeah. As we get into the
rental car, Christina lets out a sigh. Well, so, how
(36:46):
did how did you feel that about that?
Speaker 8 (36:51):
M hmm. It was just really intense and there's a
lot of things that she said that were like that
were very hurtful to me. It's like she affected me tonight,
but not in the way that she used to. I
didn't get I didn't get the fuzzy teddy bear cuddly.
Speaker 7 (37:15):
Thing, and that's okay that I didn't get that. But
what I got was her and.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
It wasn't everything I needed.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
But I feel like.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
That's how she shows love.
Speaker 8 (37:33):
And it's not with hugs, and it's not with I
love yous, and it's not with.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Praise necessarily either.
Speaker 8 (37:41):
It's in a way that I understand now, whereas before
I just felt like she just didn't even like me,
But now I can see that she loves me in
her way and in the best way that she knows how.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
In the end, it seems like this is why Christina
came here, not to find out why Isabelle made her
stop playing basketball, but to find out whether Isabelle loved her, And,
in her tough, straight shooting, slightly scary way, it's pretty
clear she does. Do you know why I want to
(38:21):
go to Scotta Park? No, it's a surprise. Oh, it's
not a big surprise. The next morning, before heading home,
I take Christina and her husband Levi out to a
nearby park. I have a paper bag I've been carrying
with me since Brooklyn. It's a good thing you're wearing
(38:43):
running shoes. When the anticipation reaches its zenith, I revealed
to Christina and Levi what's in the bag of basketball,
which I think they'd sort of guessed since we were
now standing by a basketball court and I was dribbling
(39:04):
a spherical paper bag. I turned to LEVI, have you
ever seen seen to play basketball before?
Speaker 10 (39:12):
Maybe not?
Speaker 7 (39:13):
Yeah, I don't think we've ever played.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Christina says she hasn't played in over ten years. She
doesn't even watch basketball on TV anymore. I hold out
the ball and Christina looks at it. Then She looks
at Levi and then she takes it from my hands.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Check check, Oh rusty.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
But when she gets going, it seems to come back
to her.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Oh, behind the back, behind the back, behind the back again.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Oh, it goes.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Trash talking, calling her own shots, driving hard to the basket.
There was a different sign to Christina that was coming
out on the court. It happened suddenly and easily.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
You're going to get that.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I think it's too nothing at this point. I don't
think I've scored it.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Have I.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
The best basketball players are said to have an almost
supernatural ability to see a little head, to anticipate what
will happen next. But Christina and Levi aren't that good,
and so they play like a couple of kids for
whom the future doesn't matter or the past, And in
that space between, it seems like a pretty good life.
Speaker 9 (40:28):
Okay, I love you.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Now that the furniture's rich, I do it's goodwill home.
Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the
damage to poss take this moment to desd.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
If we met and we.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
Two, we felt around for far from things that accidentally.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Hello, Christina, Hi, Hi, it's Jonathan, Hi.
Speaker 7 (41:45):
Jonathan How are you.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
I'm good, How are you good?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Where are you in bc oh?
Speaker 4 (41:51):
No, in Portland?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
In Portland? Right, Yes, after we met, I went to
see I went to visit a cousin of mine who
lives in BC oh.
Speaker 7 (42:01):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
It's very generous of you to say that. So this
story came out by god eight years.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Ago, yeah, almost nine, I think.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Does it feel that long ago?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
It feels simultaneously that long ago and maybe longer.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, this might be a big question. But what's changed
for you since then?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
I mean outwardly, I think not a ton.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
Well.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I mean Isabelle died.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, you would mention. I was sorry to hear that.
But you had also said that you saw her again.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I did.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
Yeah. I think my foster brother called and said that
she was in the hospital and not doing well. And
she I think was ninety five at this point, okay,
And so it was kind of like, if you want
to say goodbye, now is your time?
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Huh?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
And so I chose to go.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
And she was very kind and very grateful that I went.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah. Do you remember what you talked about with Isabelle
on that last visit? Was it just small talk?
Speaker 4 (43:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (43:14):
It was pretty pretty surface.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Level, so she was. There was no there was no
like deathbed regret, not at all. I mean, it's not surprising.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
I was going to say, you can't be shocked at that.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah. Have you re listened to the episode.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
A couple of times?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Really? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (43:34):
And I think that listening back to it kind of
helped me look at it from a different perspective. I
think with Isabelle, I blamed her for ruining my life
for a lot of years, and in order for me
to move forward, I needed to let go of that
you know, old kind of story.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
When you talk about like letting go of a particular story,
was the story that that had you been able to
continue with basketball, your life would have been different.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
I think. I think it's a really dangerous thing to
to to guess what our life would have or could
have been like had this thing happened or not happened,
And that kind of steals the joy from the present moment.
And I just made a decision that I was done
(44:30):
letting my past define me or steal my joy essentially,
And that sounds very like I don't know, wou.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Wu or no. I mean it's not easy to do.
Was there any moment of I don't know, maybe it's
hard to think about it in this way, but was
like there a moment of illumination where it just clicked.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
After that.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Interview with her, I just was kind of like, Oh,
I'm trying to get blood from a stone and that's
just never going to happen.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, that's well put. I wonder though, if if the
something like that, you just needed to go through that
to play it out, to see that, you know, and
to have like to have witnesses.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Yeah, I think I think that was very powerful and
very healing. One thing that was very interesting for me
was after our interview Levi, I got really emotional and
was like, I can't imagine, like how hard that was
for you. And I think it just kind of gave
him a little bit more of a perspective of what
(45:40):
I went through and maybe a bit more compassion for
how sometimes I can be a little emotional or overreact
to certain things or be you know, overly sensitive.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, and wait, there was another there was something else.
So your last name is Whismer, and Levi's last name
is Buckingham, and you've officially combined Portmanteaud your names into Whizzingham.
(46:11):
So it's whizzing ham. It's like it's like it gives
you the feeling of, if I may be so bold,
like a pig that has attained like some kind of
flight velocity. It's just whizzing by. I think you're ahead
of the curve with this, just like you were with
with disc golf.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I think more couples are going to be doing this.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
Well. We actually have friends who did the same thing,
and so I was the one that came up with
their name.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
You're the guru of it. Yeah, Well, it was just
nice to hear your voice and to catch up. Yeah,
you too, and give warm regards to Levi.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I will thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (46:55):
Okay, take care, Christina.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Thanks to everyone who originally put this episode together. We'll
be back with another update in two weeks. And if
you want no presh, you can sign up for our
free newsletter. It's free at patreon dot com slash Heavyweight.
Tell everybody how great it is. Go ahead, Stevie, Yeah,
(47:32):
can you tell everybody about how wonderful this newsletter is.
It's pretty wonderful, and boys, it's full of fun. We
have photographs of Christina and her dogs. Recommendations for all
kinds of things that myself and the staff are enjoying. Stevie,
what's something that you're enjoying these days.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
I'm enjoying this.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
You know what, spoiler alert. You got to sign up
for the newsletter to find out all kinds of cool stuff.
Just sign up for the free newsletter. Thank you very much.
Speaker 8 (48:09):
They can do one thing, a thing to do
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You know, when you meditate, you're supposed to acknowledge the
breath and put a name to it, like that was
a small breath, that was a big breath. If I
had to put a name to that, hello, I would
say hesitantly, cheerful.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That's a part of my meditation, is naming your hellos.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Kind of weird, but uh, all right, we're going to
revisit another great episode today.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Hit me.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's called Christina.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh yeah, it's truly one of my favorite episodes.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, it's a really good one.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Uh yeah, I love it. I will say this and
maybe you can confirm this fact check me on this.
But this was an early season two episode, and up
until this point, I had largely worked with people that
I already knew, like friends and family, and this this
was the first time that I was actually like traveling
(01:15):
out in the world to meet someone.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, and I'll never forget. But when they met me
at the airport, Christina and her husband LEVI, I just
remember like seeing the look of hope and respect almost
in their eyes. Yeah, and I just felt like, oh
my god, these poor people, like I don't deserve that
look at all. But I really better get it together.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And then you've gotten it together for ten years now.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You know what I do. I look at myself in
the bathroom mirror and I slap myself in the face
and I say, get it together.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Buy.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well, it's working, so I guess keep doing that. Yeah, well,
enjoyed the episode, and afterwards we're going to hear from
Christina what she's up to now.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yes, we're gonna get a nice update about what Christina's
life has been like and the impact that participating in
the episode had on her. Oh but if we could
reverse the process and eat our dessert before we move
on to the main course, A word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Hello, Hey, do you have a copy of TV Guide?
Speaker 5 (02:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
No, Why I can't find my copy? And I was
wondering what was on TV? Don't you don't you remember?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Don't you remember?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Don't wait?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Don't you remember calling people up on the phone?
Speaker 5 (02:50):
I do remember that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Just to see what was on I remember calling on
my Antille because I was too I was too lazy
to get up off the couch to look for the
TV Guide, so I just called her up. Woman could
hardly walk and she had to search around for a
TV guide from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this
(03:16):
is Heavyweight Today's episode. Christina, this is the best of
all possible worlds. My father was fond of saying. The
(03:37):
words were spoken contentedly, often while reclining in a barca
lounger belt buckle undone after a large meal of baked
beans and lamb chops. But what did my father know
of other worlds? He'd held down the same job and
was married to the same woman for decades plus. He
hardly left the house. But what he did know was
(03:59):
that this world had one thing over all of those
other worlds. It existed from my father, that was enough
to make it best. I, on the other hand, am
not one over so easily.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Existence is a nice quality, a fine quality, but going
so far as to call a world that contains both
soul patches and puddles the best possible anything seems a
little extreme, and so imagining other worlds the same, only
better is just too irresistible. In spite of the pain
(04:38):
such thinking inevitably invites. Why don't we start from the beginning? Okay,
this is Christina, and like me, she knows this world
can use a few tweaks. Overall, she says her life
hasn't been a bad one, it's just not the one
she was meant to live. She's worked as a waitress,
a receptionist, as a home care worker, the kinds of
(05:01):
jobs you do, but not necessarily the kind you dream about. Lately,
she's been helping run her husband's company.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It's a a disc golfing backpack company.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Say sorry, say that again. It's a what disc golf
backpack is? What is disc golf?
Speaker 8 (05:18):
It's like ball golf, but instead of balls and clubs,
you have frisbees.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Oh, when you say ball golf, you're talking about golf golf.
Speaker 7 (05:24):
Like a regular golf.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, okay, I've never heard it referred to distinguished as
ball golf, but I.
Speaker 7 (05:30):
Will only disc golfers call it ball golf.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So, but how do you how do you get a
frisbee in a golf hole?
Speaker 7 (05:36):
No, it's actually not a hole, it's a basket.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Oh, my goodness. Before she started pining after better worlds,
Christina was focused on just one, the world of small
town Western Canada.
Speaker 7 (05:49):
I lived with my mom. She was a single mom.
Speaker 8 (05:52):
My dad left when I was around one, and my
mom was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Christina was just a kid, so a lot of it's
now fuzzy, but she remembers bits of things, her mom
going off her meds and beginning to hear voices, her
mom waking her in the middle of the night and
saying they had to leave right away. She remembers running
with her mom down dark streets.
Speaker 8 (06:15):
She started becoming violent and she would just, you know,
hit me with the phone handle, or this one time
she came after me with a high heeled shoe. There's
no food in the house. She wouldn't do laundry, like
the dirty clothes would pile up in the living room,
Like I remember this massive mound of dirty clothes, and
(06:36):
I remember this kid made fun of me for having
dirty pants, and so I started stealing clothes just so
I could have clean clothes to go to school.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
When you were a kid trying to survive on your own,
the unthinkable can start to seem normal. To escape her house,
Christina took a job caring for two boys not much
younger than herself. She became a twelve year old live
in nanny.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
So I ended up moving in with this family and
looking after the boys. They paid me a little bit
and I quit school to be a nanny.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
When she stopped showing up at school, social services removed
Christina from the nannying house, but instead of bringing her
back to her mom, they took her to a foster home.
She was sent to live with an older couple and
their grandson. They lived on the fancier side of town
in a house decorated with candleholders and decorative pistols. The
(07:35):
foster mother was a woman named Isabelle. Her grandson, David,
was the golden boy who could do no wrong. From
day one, Christina struggled for Isabelle's approval.
Speaker 8 (07:46):
My foster mother and I kind of butted heads a
little bit or a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Although Isabelle was only an inch taller, Christina was scared
of her. Her foster mother communicated through rules and punishments.
Speaker 7 (08:01):
She was very strict.
Speaker 8 (08:04):
Fris five minutes late for curfew, I would be grounded
for a month.
Speaker 7 (08:07):
It felt like I was always grounded.
Speaker 8 (08:10):
And afraid all the time, and kind of walking on eggshells,
and yeah, just feeling always really intimidated and scared.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I was always scared, and when she got scared, Christina
would go silent. As a result, she never once stood
up to Isabelle. It was while living in Isabelle's world
that another better world presented itself to Christina. A world
(08:44):
with rules that were easy to understand, a world where
someone was always keeping score and keeping things fair. This
was the eighty four x fifty foot world of a
basketball court.
Speaker 8 (08:55):
I can't explain how much I was obsessed with basketball.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
I would practice at like six in the morning at
the school.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I would practice on weekends.
Speaker 8 (09:05):
I'd watch the NBA games with Clyde the Glide and
Charles Barkley. Then my name was in the paper a
few times. I think I have some paper clippings of
like high scoring.
Speaker 7 (09:15):
I loved, loved, loved basketball.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
On the basketball court, Christina was never scared. It was
a place where, for the first time in her life,
she felt in control and confident. Her foster brother, David,
a popular jock, spent hours helping her get better. She
joined a team and quickly became a high scorer. Eventually
she was made team captain.
Speaker 8 (09:37):
They would always put me inside, like I would always
have to guard the post.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
When Christina talks about basketball, she lights up, and I
want to encourage her to keep talking by asking questions.
But my only real knowledge of basketball comes from watching
the Harlem Globetrotters. I was in my thirties before I
learned it was illegal to bring stilts onto the court,
so my questions are limited.
Speaker 8 (09:57):
We tall no only five to six. But I guess
I kind of had this unrealistic view of myself where
I thought I was taller than I was because off court,
I was like kind of meek, and I'd just follow
the crowd and I wouldn't create any waves. I didn't
(10:19):
really have an opinion, but on the court I was
a force to be reckoned with. It was like the
only time where I felt powerful.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
It was around this time that a plan began to
take shape. If she kept practicing and kept winning, she'd
get a basketball scholarship. Christina knew that was her only
hope of getting into college.
Speaker 8 (10:44):
I wanted to get out of that circle of welfare
and illness and living from paycheck to paycheck and just
feeling just being poor.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
It sucked, which brings us to the moment that thirty
years later, Christina still can't stop thinking about. She'd just
come home from school when Isabelle called her into the kitchen,
sat her down at the table, and presented her with
an ultimatum.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
She said, you have to get your grades up.
Speaker 8 (11:13):
You have to work harder at school, and so in
order for me to be able to play basketball the
following year, which would have been eleventh grade, I had
to have an average of a bee in every class.
But I was really bad at math and chemistry, and
I didn't make it. I wasn't allowed to play basketball.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
What she remembers most about that time was watching a
lot of TV and overeating and the chores. After forcing
Christina to quit the basketball team, Isabelle handed her chores
that felt like ironic punishments from the Judy Bloom version
of Dante's Inferno. She had to bake cookies for the family,
but because of her weight gain, she wasn't allowed to
(11:59):
eat any. And when she dusted the house, Isabelle instructed
her to pick up David's basketball trophies, dust each one,
and dust the shelf underneath. All the while, Christina felt
her loss acutely of basketball and the better world had promised.
Speaker 8 (12:17):
She took something from me that I've not been able
to get back.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
What is that thing?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (12:26):
And I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I don't.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
When I say that out loud, it sounds ridiculous, but
it feels like that passion for something it dashed this
huge dream that I had for my life.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Christina still wonders why why did Isabelle take away basketball?
The only thing that really mattered to her, that would
have given her a better life, But all these years
she's been too afraid to ask.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
She's going to be ninety five in July. The thought
of talking to her about it petrifies me a little bit,
like there's still a part of me that is scared
of her, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And what do you want?
Speaker 8 (13:17):
I think, Yeah, I think I want to know, like
why she made my life so difficult, if it was
just to break me down, if she had some kind
of thing against me.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And what do you want to hear her say?
Speaker 8 (13:36):
I guess I want to just hear her say that
she just genuinely wanted me to have better grades.
Speaker 7 (13:44):
But I know that that's just such bs.
Speaker 8 (13:48):
For whatever reason, I've let go of a lot of
things that have happened, but for whatever reason, this one thing,
the basketball thing, not letting me play basketball. I'm having
such a hard time letting go of that and forgiving her.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
I want to let it go.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So you want to go talk to her?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You and you want me to come?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I get really meely mouthed when I'm in the same
room as like strong willed, scary older women. I'll tell
you that right now, not going to be much help.
Speaker 7 (14:20):
So we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It sounds like we're doing it all right. We're gonna
go talk to that scary lady after the break. How
much mincing can a mealie mouth mince when a meei
mouth meets a menacing miss who writes this stuff? I
guess I do. Once I gave Christina my word that
(14:52):
i'd help, I approached CEO and Gimblet founder Alex Bloomberg
to ask if he could fly me to the British
Columbian Interior to confront a ninety five year old woman
about something she may or may not have said some
thirty years ago, to which Alex asked, why are you
always standing just outside the door whenever I get out
of the bathroom, And I said it was a coincidence,
(15:12):
although I might have pronounced it quinky dink to be playful,
and he asked how long. This trip would take me
out of the office, and I said a week, and
he said to take longer if I needed it. So
I was off to Canada. Tail denos a.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
Deploire you I speak you too.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I meet Christina and her husband Levi at the Colonna
Airport in British Columbia. They'd just flown in from Portland,
and the look of trust on their faces is daunting.
When meeting new people, especially people I'm about to help,
I'm more comfortable with looks of skepticism or anticipatory disappointment.
Trust was disconcerting.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes, I have a reservation.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
It was an hour and a half drive to Isabelle's,
so we made our way to the airport rental desk
to get a car Goldstein g old.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I just asked, who that is there?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Oh, it's just a we're doing a radio story.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
So I'm just do you mind turning that.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Off and putting away?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
If I couldn't even stand up to the car rental clerk,
what hope did I have of helping Christina stand up
to Isabelle.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
It's hot in here, I say.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
It's been well over two years since Christina's seen Isabelle.
She's feeling anxious, so I try to keep the mood positive.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I bet the.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Thrift stores are really good around here. I point out
foreign license plates, and because we're in a foreign country,
there are many pretty Have you guys been watching this
show called little Big Lies or big little lies or
(17:14):
little big Lies?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Well set?
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Isabelle lives on the ground floor of a squat apartment
block mostly inhabited by seniors. We wait. When no one answers,
we ring the bell. The door opens. I heard you
(17:48):
the first time, Isabelle says. Christina smiles in spite of herself.
She can't help but get a kick out of Isabelle.
Isabelle peers up at us from behind her walker. Christina's husband,
Levi makes introductions. Isabel Hi, how are you doing?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Oh that?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Oh? Is me reacting to Isabelle's handshake, a surprisingly powerful
thing that yanks me through the doorframe. Although a diminutive
woman with white, puffy hair and wire rim glasses, Isabelle's
just established herself as the alpha. Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Okay, you seem to be doing great. I'm doing not
bad for you, know my age.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I guess Isabelle's apartment is tidy and dim, decorated with
candles that haven't been lit in years. We slowly follow
her down a narrow hallway to her living room, where
she seats herself in a faded blue mechanized armchair. On
the drive over, Christina mentioned that Isabelle is legally blind,
but I misremember this as Isabelle being legally deaf, so
(18:57):
I compliment her on how well she's following along. Well,
I'm not talking very loud, and you you've been able
to hear everything.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So I did see there's nothing wrong with my ears right.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
And you did not. To recover from this faux pas,
I offer Isabelle a chance to feel my face run
her hands through my beard, which is something I think
I saw done in The Miracle Worker. If ever, you
want to feel my stubble or.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I don't go running around feeling beards.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I decide that now is as good a time as
any to offer around the airport treats I bought during
my layover. I brought some refreshments, since I don't want
to put Isabelle out by asking for a party tray.
I scoot my travel socks and underwear to the side
of my backpack and proffer them straight from the bag,
some chocolate covered nuts and such.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Not right now, thank you?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
No, okay, I'll leave him in the bag. If I've
learned anything from my work in the business of forcing
people to ask terrifying questions, it was that it's always
best to just get it over with. Ask the question,
why did you ruin my life? Get the answer, and
(20:15):
head back to the hotel bar to eat the juiciest,
fattiest tea bone steak that Gimlet Media's fourteen dollars per
diem allows. But staging is everything I need to be
off hand, subtle. Do you, Christina, do you have anything
that you you want to ask about? Or Christina looks
(20:48):
down at her hands and tightens her lips. Of course
I understand her hesitation. Isabelle is even more intimidating in
person than Christina made her out, and nothing about being
here can possibly feel much like coming home. The walls
and shelves are loaded with photos of Isabelle's children, grandchildren,
and great grandchildren, but there isn't a single photo anywhere
(21:11):
of her only foster child, Christina. To break the silence,
I asked Isabelle why she originally took Christina into her
home in the first place.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
One of my children left a child for me to raise,
my grandson. This was David. Yeah, so I thought life
was just my husband and I. We were both older.
It would be kind of very dull for him. So
I thought that having someone else around the house would
make it a little more homey for him. But I
(21:44):
hadn't chosen Christina. Christina was brought to me, and we're
just She was just there, this wild looking thing, seeing
a little bit of training to live in a home.
So obviously she hadn't been brought up with anything. I
just thought any child living under my roof had to
be taught.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Something, meaning like what kind of things like you mean,
normal like rules and.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well rules, yeah, the rule. I don't think that our
rules were terribly strict.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Really, I mean I felt like they were strict.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Well maybe you thought so, that most kids do, but
they were the same rules my kids had.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Christina hesitates, you can see it's hard for her to
talk back to Isabelle even now.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
But then she says, but David didn't have rules, No,
he didn't need any. He is the most perfect person
I've ever raised.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Christina, another person she happened to have raised is seated
a couple feet away from her. Christina stares ahead blankly,
not saying anything. So I press Isabelle, well, you must
have done something wrong. I mean, it's only.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Very little, or you'd be surprised how perfect he was.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Was that hard though, being like side by side with
someone who.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Is just no.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I think it was good for her.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Christina, that is that how you feel?
Speaker 7 (23:14):
It was hard? Yeah, it was really hard.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Something else that's been hard is finding the courage to
ask the question that brought her here, but Christina gives
it a shot after the break. Something else that's been
hard is finding the courage to ask the question that
brought her here. Christina gives it a shot, but after
(23:44):
some throat clearing again, she goes silent.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Go ahead, ask.
Speaker 8 (23:53):
I think the one thing that I have kind of
always wondered is do you remember I think it was
in tenth grade and I had been playing basketball and
you told me that I had to get my grades
(24:13):
up where I couldn't play basketball anymore.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Do you remember that?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
No?
Speaker 7 (24:22):
Okay, so I.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
Didn't get my grades up and I had to quit
the team.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I don't remember that at all. I don't know. I still.
Speaker 7 (24:34):
It was devastating for me.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Why did you get your grades up there?
Speaker 8 (24:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I asked Christina if she could explain to Isabelle why
losing basketball hurt so much?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
No, without crying.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
I felt like.
Speaker 8 (24:59):
It was like the one thing that I was really
good at.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Are you surprised to hear Christina talk about how much
she loved basketball?
Speaker 8 (25:11):
Like?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Was that something that you knew back then?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
No, did Christina? Did you ever express it?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I don't think she did. I don't think so. No,
I don't think you did. I think the.
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Reason why, like it still affects me now, it is
because I didn't fight for it, and.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
How could she have. She never felt like she had
the right to stop her feet, to slam the bedroom door,
in so many words, to act like someone's kid. I
thought that maybe if I could get Isabelle to put
herself in Christina's shoes, it might help her understand. Was
there anything that you can think of that's comparable from
(25:57):
your own life, Isabelle, Like something that you really felt
very passionate about, like the thing that you really that
was your great love?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Not really. I always wanted to go to school more
than I did. I really wanted a good education, which
of the country you weren't able to get.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Her father was a rancher, Isabelle says, and her mom
died when she was little, so her dad raised the
kids by himself, and Isabelle, being the eldest, had a
lot of responsibility.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I used to miss school every year when I got
us to be a certain age and had to herd cattle.
So I'd missed about two months or a month of
school every year when I was old enough to do this.
But I was first in my class from the day
I started till the day I finished. I was never
anything but first in my class.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Was that typical that a lot of kids in the
class have to miss?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
No, just me and well, we were brought up by
our dad. Men bring up children differently than women.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, and what ways? How do you mean?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I mean? My dad didn't teach me to ride horseback.
He just threw me on a horse and told me
to go. You know, a woman wouldn't do that. I
don't think, not likely. My father was quite fond of me.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Actually, Yeah, how far did you go in school?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Just? Grade nine? I took grade nine By correspondence.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
So you didn't you never ended up getting the high
school degree.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
No. Yeah, school was an important thing to me because
I felt that's how you'd make your living.
Speaker 9 (27:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
But I remember when I was through school, my stepmother
looking in the paper and she found a dish washing
job for me. She thought that I was capable of
his washing dishes in some restaurant. I felt very insulted.
It always surprised me when kids didn't want to get
all the education they possibly could.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Isabelle motions towards Christina.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
There's only so far you could go on basketball. I
always felt your education was more important. But as a kid,
sometimes you know, you don't see that. I knew. I
tried to teach her to be self sufficient because I
knew that she'd only have herself to depend upon.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Isabelle wanted to give Christina something she never got herself,
a good education, But by depriving Christina basketball, Isabelle took
away just that. At the time, though she didn't know it.
What Isabelle did know was that when Christina showed up
at her door thirty years ago, she was already in
her sixties. Isabelle was old, and if she were to die,
(29:01):
Christina would be left all alone. She'd only become a
foster child because no one in her extended family had
stepped up to take her in. She had no one else.
What did you know about Christina's childhood before she met you?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Not much of anything that I can remember. Like, her
mother was mentally ill. I guess he knows that. And
I lost my mother when I was five, and my
father eventually had a nervous breakdown, so I knew what
it was like to live with a mentally challenged person.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Oh what was it like?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Terrible? It was horrible. You didn't know if someone was
going to kill you today or tomorrow, or what the
heck was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
That's not an exaggeration. You're really were.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
No, it's not an exaggeration. I remember taking my little
brother and sister outside and trying to hide them. He
was left with five little children, Yeah, and he was
terrified that they were going to take the kids away
from him. I used to sit by his bed and
hold his hand, and one day he said to me,
(30:13):
isabel why do you keep holding my hand? And in
my own way, I was trying to let him know
that we all loved him.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Isabelle eventually placed her father in a mental hospital.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I admitted him.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Wow, and you were how old at that time?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I was about fourteen.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Wow, that's a big burden.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah it was. And I thought, here, I am fourteen,
What the hell am I doing here?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
All the while, as Isabelle talks, Christina, seated in an
armchair beside her, listens quietly, her hands gripping the armrest.
Without looking at Isabelle, she makes her presence known.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
I have many memories of visiting my mom in the
mental hospital when I was young, like seven, eight nine,
kind of age ten.
Speaker 10 (31:15):
It's weird.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
It's a really weird experience.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
To go knowing that the other people are mentally unstable.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And you can't predict what they're going to do.
Speaker 8 (31:24):
Yeah, and my mom was, you know, kind of a
zombie because of all the medication, and obviously it was
like sad and upset that she had to be there
and wasn't with me.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It was an awful place.
Speaker 8 (31:42):
It makes you grow up way too fast.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, that's right. I mean I was never a kid
until I got married and had my own kids, and
then I had a lot of fun raising my own children. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (31:53):
I think that's why I was a nanny because I
could be around kids and have a childhood with all.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
These other children. Yeah, that's what I what I did.
I grew up with my own children. That's what was
my childhood. Yeah, you know, I play with my children
just like I was one of them.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
Yeah, yeah, I did the same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
One day, one of the neighbors looked at me, one
of the little girls, and she's says, how old are you?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
These were stories that neither Christina nor Isabelle had ever
told each other. Watching them connect like this, it feels
like a good time to bring the subject back to basketball.
How much over the past thirty years, Christina's fretted over
Isabel's decision. Knowing this now, I ask Isabelle, would you
have done things differently?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Oh? I wished I had a known more about it
at the time, But I mean, I still have no
regrets about it.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It's as though Isabelle just doesn't understand what the word
regret means. So I offer a working definition. If we
were to set off in a time machine where we
could return to that time at Christina.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Say, I know what you're saying, but frankly, I don't
know what i'd do. You know. I really don't. It
would depend on what kind of a mood I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
In, if you're in the mood that you're in right now, I.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Really have no idea. I could give you a lot
of BS and tell you how good I would have been,
but it wouldn't be the truth.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I think like a lot of people would just give
Christina the BS.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, I don't do that. I usually tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Like most I can lie upwards of ten thousand times
a day. It helps ease the friction of getting through life.
People ask how I am, and I say fine, Does
this jumpsuit make my ass look fat? And I say no?
And so on, lying all the day long until bedtime,
at which point I'm not sure the lying stops. I
(34:03):
can probably lie in my dreams. In other words, I
hold lying to be the greatest gift God gave to man.
But even with all of our lies and best intentions,
we still can't escape hurting one another. I don't think
Isabelle is a cruel woman, but I do think she
knows that hurting people and being hurt is the price
(34:24):
one pays for being human.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
There is nothing out of the ordinary in our lives,
but just you know, even ordinary lives are could upsetting.
Sometimes it's a decision that was made when she was younger.
It wasn't the right one, but how many wrong decisions
are made as we go along. Regretting something is a
waste of time. You move on, find something else to
(34:50):
be passionate about.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
In spite of their similar childhoods, Isabelle and Christina see
the world so differently. Christina is a dreamer, and for her,
the best possible world is the one that's always just
out of reach. But for Isabelle, it's not about pursuing
the best possible world at all. It's about making the
best of this world, the one you're stuck in, and
(35:22):
evidently with the people you're stuck with.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I wouldn't look after her, if you know. If I
didn't care about it, it would have been different, I think,
you know. But I was interested in what she did
and how she progressed, and wanted her to do well
at school and do well in everything, and I was
very proud of her when she did. She was with
us a long time. Couldn't get rid of her. Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Isabelle pauses, and then she says, appraisingly, she deserves a
good life.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I do have one good and I think it's better
because she had some stability in it, which I feel
she got in my own.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I'll get on that side. We say our goodbyes and
head to the car. Outside Isabelle's, the parking lot has
grown dark. Thank you. Yeah. As we get into the
rental car, Christina lets out a sigh. Well, so, how
(36:46):
did how did you feel that about that?
Speaker 8 (36:51):
M hmm. It was just really intense and there's a
lot of things that she said that were like that
were very hurtful to me. It's like she affected me tonight,
but not in the way that she used to. I
didn't get I didn't get the fuzzy teddy bear cuddly.
Speaker 7 (37:15):
Thing, and that's okay that I didn't get that. But
what I got was her and.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
It wasn't everything I needed.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
But I feel like.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
That's how she shows love.
Speaker 8 (37:33):
And it's not with hugs, and it's not with I
love yous, and it's not with.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Praise necessarily either.
Speaker 8 (37:41):
It's in a way that I understand now, whereas before
I just felt like she just didn't even like me,
But now I can see that she loves me in
her way and in the best way that she knows how.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
In the end, it seems like this is why Christina
came here, not to find out why Isabelle made her
stop playing basketball, but to find out whether Isabelle loved her, And,
in her tough, straight shooting, slightly scary way, it's pretty
clear she does. Do you know why I want to
(38:21):
go to Scotta Park? No, it's a surprise. Oh, it's
not a big surprise. The next morning, before heading home,
I take Christina and her husband Levi out to a
nearby park. I have a paper bag I've been carrying
with me since Brooklyn. It's a good thing you're wearing
(38:43):
running shoes. When the anticipation reaches its zenith, I revealed
to Christina and Levi what's in the bag of basketball,
which I think they'd sort of guessed since we were
now standing by a basketball court and I was dribbling
(39:04):
a spherical paper bag. I turned to LEVI, have you
ever seen seen to play basketball before?
Speaker 10 (39:12):
Maybe not?
Speaker 7 (39:13):
Yeah, I don't think we've ever played.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Christina says she hasn't played in over ten years. She
doesn't even watch basketball on TV anymore. I hold out
the ball and Christina looks at it. Then She looks
at Levi and then she takes it from my hands.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Check check, Oh rusty.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
But when she gets going, it seems to come back
to her.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Oh, behind the back, behind the back, behind the back again.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Oh, it goes.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Trash talking, calling her own shots, driving hard to the basket.
There was a different sign to Christina that was coming
out on the court. It happened suddenly and easily.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
You're going to get that.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I think it's too nothing at this point. I don't
think I've scored it.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Have I.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
The best basketball players are said to have an almost
supernatural ability to see a little head, to anticipate what
will happen next. But Christina and Levi aren't that good,
and so they play like a couple of kids for
whom the future doesn't matter or the past, And in
that space between, it seems like a pretty good life.
Speaker 9 (40:28):
Okay, I love you.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Now that the furniture's rich, I do it's goodwill home.
Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the
damage to poss take this moment to desd.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
If we met and we.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
Two, we felt around for far from things that accidentally.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Hello, Christina, Hi, Hi, it's Jonathan, Hi.
Speaker 7 (41:45):
Jonathan How are you.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
I'm good, How are you good?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Where are you in bc oh?
Speaker 4 (41:51):
No, in Portland?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
In Portland? Right, Yes, after we met, I went to
see I went to visit a cousin of mine who
lives in BC oh.
Speaker 7 (42:01):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
It's very generous of you to say that. So this
story came out by god eight years.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Ago, yeah, almost nine, I think.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Does it feel that long ago?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
It feels simultaneously that long ago and maybe longer.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, this might be a big question. But what's changed
for you since then?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
I mean outwardly, I think not a ton.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
Well.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I mean Isabelle died.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, you would mention. I was sorry to hear that.
But you had also said that you saw her again.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I did.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
Yeah. I think my foster brother called and said that
she was in the hospital and not doing well. And
she I think was ninety five at this point, okay,
And so it was kind of like, if you want
to say goodbye, now is your time?
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Huh?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
And so I chose to go.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
And she was very kind and very grateful that I went.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah. Do you remember what you talked about with Isabelle
on that last visit? Was it just small talk?
Speaker 4 (43:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (43:14):
It was pretty pretty surface.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Level, so she was. There was no there was no
like deathbed regret, not at all. I mean, it's not surprising.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
I was going to say, you can't be shocked at that.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah. Have you re listened to the episode.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
A couple of times?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Really? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (43:34):
And I think that listening back to it kind of
helped me look at it from a different perspective. I
think with Isabelle, I blamed her for ruining my life
for a lot of years, and in order for me
to move forward, I needed to let go of that
you know, old kind of story.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
When you talk about like letting go of a particular story,
was the story that that had you been able to
continue with basketball, your life would have been different.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
I think. I think it's a really dangerous thing to
to to guess what our life would have or could
have been like had this thing happened or not happened,
And that kind of steals the joy from the present moment.
And I just made a decision that I was done
(44:30):
letting my past define me or steal my joy essentially,
And that sounds very like I don't know, wou.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Wu or no. I mean it's not easy to do.
Was there any moment of I don't know, maybe it's
hard to think about it in this way, but was
like there a moment of illumination where it just clicked.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
After that.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Interview with her, I just was kind of like, Oh,
I'm trying to get blood from a stone and that's
just never going to happen.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, that's well put. I wonder though, if if the
something like that, you just needed to go through that
to play it out, to see that, you know, and
to have like to have witnesses.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Yeah, I think I think that was very powerful and
very healing. One thing that was very interesting for me
was after our interview Levi, I got really emotional and
was like, I can't imagine, like how hard that was
for you. And I think it just kind of gave
him a little bit more of a perspective of what
(45:40):
I went through and maybe a bit more compassion for
how sometimes I can be a little emotional or overreact
to certain things or be you know, overly sensitive.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, and wait, there was another there was something else.
So your last name is Whismer, and Levi's last name
is Buckingham, and you've officially combined Portmanteaud your names into Whizzingham.
(46:11):
So it's whizzing ham. It's like it's like it gives
you the feeling of, if I may be so bold,
like a pig that has attained like some kind of
flight velocity. It's just whizzing by. I think you're ahead
of the curve with this, just like you were with
with disc golf.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I think more couples are going to be doing this.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
Well. We actually have friends who did the same thing,
and so I was the one that came up with
their name.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
You're the guru of it. Yeah, Well, it was just
nice to hear your voice and to catch up. Yeah,
you too, and give warm regards to Levi.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I will thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (46:55):
Okay, take care, Christina.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Thanks to everyone who originally put this episode together. We'll
be back with another update in two weeks. And if
you want no presh, you can sign up for our
free newsletter. It's free at patreon dot com slash Heavyweight.
Tell everybody how great it is. Go ahead, Stevie, Yeah,
(47:32):
can you tell everybody about how wonderful this newsletter is.
It's pretty wonderful, and boys, it's full of fun. We
have photographs of Christina and her dogs. Recommendations for all
kinds of things that myself and the staff are enjoying. Stevie,
what's something that you're enjoying these days.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
I'm enjoying this.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
You know what, spoiler alert. You got to sign up
for the newsletter to find out all kinds of cool stuff.
Just sign up for the free newsletter. Thank you very much.
Speaker 8 (48:09):
They can do one thing, a thing to do
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