November 25, 2025 • 48 mins
This week, we’re heading back to Oz with acclaimed director Jon M. Chu, the visionary behind Crazy Rich Asians, In the Heights, Wicked, and now its sequel, Wicked: For Good. Jon opens up about the emotional and creative journey of adapting one of America’s most beloved and most reinterpreted stories. He talks about friendship, the meaning of home, the power of musical storytelling, and how becoming a father reshaped the way he sees the world. From the magical specificity that Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande brought to their roles to exploring the deeper truths beneath the spectacle, this conversation is full of magic, meaning, and heart.
BOOKS MENTIONED;
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum
Viewfinder: A Memoir of Seeing and Being Seen by Jeremy McCarter and Jon M. Chu
Mother Nature by Jedidiah Jenkins
The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
My Broken Language by Quiara Alegría Hudes
Chuck Amuck: The Life and Times of an Animated Cartoonist by Chuck Jones
Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr by Ron Chernow
Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton
Mystery of Harris Burdick by Chris Van Allsburg
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi.
I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
This week, we're taking a little trip to the magical
land of Oz and we're talking with the person task
with reinterpreting a century's worth of storytelling. But don't worry, guys,
(00:22):
I think he's got this.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I used to think that stories are escaped, and I
think there's an element of that, but I actually think
the job of a story is to take you out
of your life, but land you back at home.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
John mchwo is the mastermind behind some of our favorite
film extravaganzas In the Heights, Crazy Rich Agents, Wicked Part One,
and now Wicked for Good. And while John is obviously
an incredible film director, he's also a writer, a dancer,
a dad, an or a reader. You'll get what I
(00:58):
mean in a little bit, I promise. I really love
the way John talked about all the ways we can
tell a story on and off the page. So if
you're in the mood for a conversation that goes behind
the creative process and sprinkles a little, you know what,
A lot of magic throughout maybe defies gravity. You are
(01:19):
so in the right place. Let's turn the page with
John m Chu. John Cheu, Welcome to the club.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Thank you very much. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We're so excited to have you in the club. Officially,
I have to start with probably the most serious question
of our hour, which is if you were to go
to the Wizard, what would you ask him?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I would ask him, would you please get out of here?
My friends? How far is too far for you? Yeah,
mister Wizard.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Absolutely, he really is the enemy of the franchise.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
He is the enemy. But at the same time, Jeff
Goblum's fascinating character. I don't know if you've ever really
interacted with him, but he's so funny. He's such a
huge student of literature, of art, of movies, and so
his philosophy on the Wizard is like, and you know,
maybe he's a storyteller that's just gone too far, someone
who's looking at entertainment and yes, they want a villain,
(02:17):
yes they want action and violence, and then what point
do you have a responsibility to the world that you're
creating through your stories? And so I love that that
this Wizard is a little bit more complicated than usual.
He's not a bumbling idiot. Maybe he's not meaning to
do it. Who is meaning to do any of these
bad things? But maybe it's someone who gets carried away.
At some point, we have to wake up and know
that our stories affect the world that we live in.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
He also left me with the question, does he truly
believe he's doing the right thing?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah? Exactly. I think that's you know, the I don't
know if people have seen the movie yet or not,
but at this point, you know, at the end, he
gets sort of trapped by the machine itself and eaten
alive in it. So yeah, sort of metaphorically, But it's
always something that I think about as a storyteller, and
especially now with kids. What are the stories that I
(03:04):
was told as a kid that made me believe in
the possibilities of America, of individuals, of community, And then
you know, now as an adult, how hard was it? Actually?
Are those stories actually true? Should we be believing in
fairy tales or is that just not good enough anymore?
And what are the fairy tales that we want to
pass on to our children, and do they we want
(03:25):
them to believe in the possibilities of our of our
childhood stories.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Do you, John Chu, believe in fairy tales?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I believe in big dreams because I am the recipient
of generosity by people and goodness of people from people
who used to come into the Chinese restaurants that my
parents owned and would give me camera equipment, monitors, computers, software.
I grew up in the Silicon Valley, so they would
give it to me because I was making videos and
(03:53):
I'm a product of that. And I'm the son of
immigrants this place of America with the great hope of
an American dream, going into the most America business in
the world, doing the most American genre of movie, the
movie musical that everyone says is dead. And I'm living
the dream. I have five kids and they're beautiful, and
I got to do achieve it all. And no matter
how hard it was, no matter how many times I
(04:16):
felt like I could be a victim, that that's not
anything that could hold me back. That the dream does exist.
If I can survive and I can flourish, then one
hundred percent that I'm proof that the dream is still
alive and that fairy tales can exist. Maybe the way
in which we tell these stories can shift. Maybe I
need to give my kids a little bit of equip
(04:39):
them with a couple more tools in their stories so
that they can know that it's not gingerbread houses and
yellow brick roads, but certainly the possibilities of optimism and
innovation and dreams I think are one hundred percent real.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And I think you do that in your work, regardless
of the medium, because you've worked in film and television,
you're a writer yourself. I do think you bring these
complex stories to life. And I heard that you first
saw Wicked the musical when it was still in workshop
before it made it onto Broadway. Yeah, and you thought
someone will make this a great movie someday. Did you
(05:17):
also think I have to read this book.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, at that point, I'm not sure I knew that
it was a book. I just knew that it was
Stephen schwartz new musical, and so I think at that
point it was I was enamored by this sort of
deconstruction of the American fairy tale. And I was going
through college at that moment, so friends that I had
grown up with were leaving my life, and I didn't
(05:40):
know how to categorize that or where to put that
in my brain, and there's not a lot of movies
or stories about friendships because it's not as romantic as romance,
you know, those whole industry is about romance and love
and you get married is the end goal and they
live happily ever after. But friendships, man oh man, No,
it is consistency. It is not romantic. It is show
(06:01):
up for them, and they show up for you, and
it's over years and maybe some float away, but the
good ones stick around, and maybe the good ones stick
around and there is a time where that era ends
as well. And how to say that that actually is
still valuable. So yeah, I just I love that we
get to explore that in these kind of stories.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So, I mean, friendship is at the center of wicket.
I can imagine that you dissected every part of friendship
as you went through this. Did you revisit the book
at all as part of your creative process?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Not really, And that's complicated because there are legal rights
to the book that this musical does not have. There
are you know, the way we interpret the movie, and
this is sort of getting in the weeds, but we
are based off of the musical, which is based off
of the book. So I had to be very cognizant,
but also aware that we can use the L. Frank
(06:56):
Baum as source material and the Denslow drawings as social material,
and I can use Wicked, the musical and the screenplay
of that as stuff. So I couldn't, even though I
love Gregory Maguire's book, it wasn't about like digging out
more from there. It was digging out the truth and
(07:17):
the material of the musical itself.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I'm so glad that you mentioned the complication because for
Good is the film adaptation of the second act of
the musical Wicked, which is based on the book Wicked,
which came after the movie The Wizard of Oz, which
was based on the book The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.
And that is so many creative cooks in the kitchen, John, Like,
that is a century of creative interpretation and a lot
(07:40):
of storytellers shaping this world. What did it feel like
to step into this legacy? And I guess even a
more specific question is there's so many creative fingerprints on
the story, what did you hold on to as yours?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well? I saw a really a funny tweet today and
I screen grabbed it just I thought it was so
funny it says scary how novels written one hundred and
twenty five years ago source material for a novel published
thirty years ago and a musical that premiere twenty two
years ago could lead to a pair of movies that
are more prescient and relevant than ever before. In twenty
(08:15):
twenty five, Happy New York premiere to Wicked for good
like it is insane, It is insane, but in a
weird way. It is the hallmark of a timeless story
that it is always timely in the interpretations of what's
nice is about Each person who's interpreted the Wizard of
Oz kind of understands that for some reason they understand
(08:36):
the subversive nature of this story or what it can
reflect back to a culture. Maybe because it is the
American fairy tale. So there's a lot of things that connect.
When you say American fairy tale, what does that mean?
So for me, when I looked at it, I knew
that Wicked was written right after nine to eleven, at
(08:56):
a time where America was going through great change, and
Wizard of Oz was written during a time of great
change in the turn of the century. And so I
got this, that's interesting the script. I got this script
at during COVID Lockdown, and I just had my first child,
and it made a lot of sense to me that
(09:17):
the world was crumbling all around me and that the
American dream was suddenly a facade or seemed like it,
and oh my gosh, that the adults maybe don't know
what they're doing. And I had to grow up, we
all had to grow up. Home didn't feel like home.
It felt like a strange place all the summer, Like
what do I need to feel home? And so those
questions came very relevant to me. So I knew that
(09:38):
if I were going to do this story that I
had to had to be a reflection of where we are.
That was the tradition actually that each artist that has
come in and come into OZ. And then as we
were making it, you know, when you cast Cynthia Rivo
and she's singing the words of Alphaba a woman who
is green, that means something very different to Cynthia Rivo,
(10:01):
and she's bringing her own decade long wounds and ideas
to the table. Right that changes every word that we've
known and we've heard over and over again. Something has
changed within me, something's not the same. I'm through with
playing by the rules of somebody else's game, Like to me,
that is just coming from her? Is it changed the
whole musical for me? And then you have arian, Yeah,
(10:22):
she's she's she's somebody who is literally the most popular
girl in the world, and she's going to seem popular,
and then she's going to deconstruct that idea of what
popular actually even means and how you can get lost
in this when everyone wants you to be happy and
be the light. How do you find your own light
if you don't even know who you are yet? So
I think for me it was the specificity of how
(10:43):
do I make this personal to myself, because it is
the tradition of this story that it's author or it's
not necessary author, it's interpreter, find its role in the
life of that it's being made in.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So was your rubric for deciding what you wanted to
keep into five your personal gut instinct?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It was my personal gut instinct about what the role
of the story has in our lives, because I think
that because this was about a story that we're told,
we're told about what the wicked Witch looks like and
(11:27):
how she acts, and we're finding out in the story,
it is not the truth, and you're you're with a
wizard who is spinning stories for power, and you're being
you're telling the animals that when you discourage animals enough,
it's it's easy to keep anyone silent. And we're making
(11:47):
a movie at a time where things are being silenced
all around us. So yeah, it felt like the only way,
the only reason to make this now is to speak
to the times that we're in. Because that's the best
thing about a movie musical is it's almost always the
best ones are always subversive, whether that's sound of music
(12:09):
or singing in the rain or cabaret.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
In the book and in the libretto, there's a lot
of internal dialogue and for characters, for a character like Alphaba,
you're turning so much monologue into visual language in the film.
How did you decide what stays internal versus what deserves
to be seen?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You know, we have the best tool to make the
internal xterior, which is song. So Winny years and years
ago made many choices about what to take from the
book and into the stage show. I got to take
that and say, and then Stephen Schwartz got to externalize
(12:49):
those in music. The power of a musical. Some people think, oh,
it's like a show and dance. Oh I hate musicals
because it's just performance. Actually it's not. It is it
is You get deeper and more in with a character
because you just you don't just have a soliloquy for
a character. You get melody. You get a note, and
one note can communicate with a paragraph never could communicate.
(13:12):
And you get movement, which means the way someone leans
on a microphone says a lot about what mood they're
and who they are. The way they aggressively look at
the characters says so much and I don't have to
say one word of it. So you get movement. And
that's not just dance, that's movement, that's posture. And so
you have that, and then you have song, and then
you have lyric, and lyric can say the exact opposite
what they're feeling. When Glinda is singing in the microphone,
(13:34):
it couldn't be happier. That isn't I want song, But
everything she's singing about is the opposite of what she wants.
So now I get to watch her sing what she
quote unquote says what she wants, but you see in
her eyes it's empty. It's complicated, as she says, and
I that power of a movie musical and when done right,
when you understand every tool that you have, you become
(13:59):
more intimate and to these characters. I think that's why
when people watch this movie they feel so moved, is
because we have permission from the audience to use these tools.
They've accepted these tools, and if we don't use them
to get us to care about a character more than
what are we using them for? For song and dance,
you can go on TikTok and get all the song
and dance you want. So it becomes only more important
(14:21):
as we use that language to and in the book,
you know you have the words so and you have
imagination and so we get to then through this other avenue,
get to those similar places.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Actually, is there a deleted scene that fans will never
see but you wish they could.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I know there's a scene that everyone wants to see
that we're not going to show them.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
What scene is that?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
There's a scene where in movie one, all the friends
from school, including Johnny Bailey, they go out into this
park and they have a great day together. It's like
this beautiful bonding scene and we just didn't need it
in the movie. It was just too extraneous. But there's
a scene where Johnny takes off hish shirt and starts
chopping wood and this guy his a pack looks amazing.
(15:07):
I mean, I don't know if I think if he
had that clip back, you know, a year ago, he
would have got sexiest Man Alive back then. So we
have we never we didn't play in the movie. It
was two extraneous, but that shot people have heard about
and they're like, they harassed me every day on Instagram
to share it. So you never know. But right now
(15:28):
I'm keeping it in the vault.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I do think that that People magazine should have had you,
Coleman and Jonathan Bailey together and it was like the
men of Wicked. That would have been my vote.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I definitely would not be invited to that cover,
but that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I love it. Your wife would have been so happy too.
She would have had bragging like what I've heard you
say that Wicked Part one is about choices and the
bravery to make those choices, and part two is about
(16:06):
consequences and staying with those choices, and it explores some
pretty heavy questions like why defend a home that doesn't
want you. I love that question. What scene or moment
do you think captures that?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, it's something when I was doing in the Heights
and there's this moment up Weella Claudia in that movie.
She's someone who came from another country and came to
this country and raised her family, her neighborhood there and
cared about them. But at a certain point it wasn't
working for her. So she's making this decision to go back.
And I always thought that was so interesting. I always
(16:41):
thought that was so complicated, like, oh, you don't hear
stories about people wanting to leave the United States. This
Weella cloudy idea of going home after her whole journey
here was I don't know. It was so I don't know,
different than I've ever heard. And so when we were
talking about Alphaba and what she would go through, and
this is not necessarily in the stage show, was happening
in movie two, was wouldn't she wonder why she would
(17:05):
even want to stay? Wouldn't she wonder like what happens
to this to a place that thinks you're the bad guy?
And that question is so relevant when you actually bring
it up because that's an actual debate that's happening every day.
That is the question that's at the core of Alphaba
because eventually, whether she thinks like she's not her responsibility
(17:26):
to fix this place and she leaves, or something else,
like she does ultimately leave and to use one of
the most iconic terms, there's no place like home. To
make that point, Oh, that's like heartbreaking just in saying
it out loud. And Stephen Schwartz is brilliant. He knew
this moment it was either going to be a scene
or a song to express this, and Stephen Schwortz, it's
(17:48):
a song and I know how it's going to play
out and this he at first it was like it's
going to be an anthem, like okay, but the question
is very deep, and so he added this opening that
was why do I love this place that never love me? Oh?
That was so heartbreaking in itself. And then she goes
on and she fights for it. She's like, no, no, no,
but this is we have to. The other animals are like,
(18:10):
I'm we're tired, we can't fight nowhere, and she's like, no,
we have to, and so it becomes this calling card.
But she doesn't finish the last note, and on purpose?
Why Because I think there's a difference between intention and completion,
and we can't at this moment have a completion of
(18:31):
the idea. It has to be cut off by the
troubles of the present, which is at that point the
cowardly lion that comes in and interrupts her and blames
her for things that she's done in her past. I
think you can have the idealism as we need to
fight for this place, but the reality always crashes back in.
It's not about an anthem, It's about a consistent living
(18:53):
and fighting. What do they say like independence feels like
rejection until it feels like growth, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I think we always think about actors emotionally and where
they are in a scene, But I don't know that
I've ever thought about where a director was emotionally shooting
a scene. Where were you emotionally when you shot that?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
We're shooting no place like home. I mean, it's very
personal question for me in terms of what is home
because I grew up in a very close knit family
in a Chinese restaurant that has very specific ideas about
what America is and what our family should be and
(19:41):
how close we should be, and I'm the one who left.
They all live in the area still I left. I
came to La to pursue the stream. And I always
struggle because I'm so close to my family about what
I'm creating away from them, and now that I have
five kids, like my whole life is changing. Oh my
home is here. Those are my am I supposed to
(20:02):
say relatives, No, that's my family too, Like it's very
confusing as an adult. Now you're supposed to be like,
what's the priority, But like, my wife is my priority,
My kids are my priority. When you're that close with
your family and they've survived for you, and they've lived
so much and sacrificed so much for you, it is
really hard to even like, maybe it's not a list,
you know, my mom taught us, Oh, you got to
(20:24):
be number one, you got to do this and that,
But me, it's not. Maybe maybe the whole thing is
like it's not a list, But I struggle with that.
So so when she's singing it, I and I look
at America and I think about this place I believe
in with all my heart, and I see how bad
we can be too. It breaks my heart that we
can't be everything that I thought we were, and so
(20:47):
as she's singing it, I'm very I'm very invested in
that it's not I don't want her to blame anything,
and I don't want I just want her to be
like searching, and so that's sort of what I'm doing
as I'm watching her perform. Of Course, I need to
be very to capture what she's doing, and I need
to be aware that if I need to move the
camera to get to juice something that she's doing, I
have to be plugged in right where she is. So
(21:08):
I'm usually really close to the camera. I'm usually like
on the ground somewhere, and I'm trying to feel everything
that she's giving so that I can because the movie
usually starts to speak back to you. She's doing usually
something different. On the day we have she did all
her singing live, both of them, so so we have
a pianist right off camera, and she has an earwig
in her in her ear so she can hear the piano.
(21:29):
She can go off tempo if she wants, or she
can go on tempo. The pianist is supposed to watch
follow her, and so I am also following her in
a way, and as she's doing it, things are changing
and I'm finding things, so I can be like, oh,
you hit this moment, let me get it closer right here,
so I can be hey, let me push the camera
in just slightly here. Or if you walk into this
light right when you sing that lyric, you're giving you're
(21:51):
giving this sort of surrender. But if you walk into
the light on that surrender, I think we're gonna it's gonna,
it's going to enhance that idea. So it's just being present.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I'm wondering if you think that fantasy books and musicals
offer escapism or are they amplifying real life.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I used to think that stories are escape. That was
when I watched ET. They took me to another planet
and my jaw was on the floor in awe. And
I think there is an element of that. But I
actually think the job of a story is to take
you out of your life but land you back at home.
(22:34):
I think the I think that the job of the
artist is to explore the dark places or the intricate,
conflicting areas of the human species and our feelings, so
that people who need to put food on the table
and give a roof over their children's head can do that,
(22:58):
and still when they watch something or hear something or
read something, can experience another part of their humanity that
they know that they feel inside but maybe don't have
the time to process. And that's why I'm very sensitive
and I love actors and writers because they have to
access these parts that are so deep and so scary.
It can spin you around and around and around. And
(23:18):
some people call that, you know, dramatic and whatever, but
like that's what we actually all feel inside, and that
is what's running our lives. That is what's running how
you look at the world. And so when I when
I'm working on a on a movie, I'm we're asking
these actors to be emotionally available and in toort of
to confront darkness, you have to like sort of step
(23:38):
into darkness. And so I try to be very sensitive
that that there are they are our explorers of the
of the internal. And so, yeah, it's making a movie
is very it's we have to protect each other and
hold each other's hands what we're going through and who
God knows who we're going to find. And I think
when you're in terms of escape, I think that it
(23:58):
is a scared to a place that's very close to
our hearts anything and wondering awe as a part of that,
I guess, because you want to like pop out of
your life, but leading always back to real life here.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
You know, Kristin chenow With and Adina Manzel had they
played these characters so iconically and theater kids came to
know them so well. What conversations did you have with
Cynthia and Ariana about making these parts their own? Because
I can imagine it's hard, like their their performances were
so recognizable. I think about that riff that Kiki Palmer
(24:34):
did all of Awards season and like, how do you
make this? Like it's almost an impossible task.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and I think that we auditioned a lot of people.
It was a reason why it wasn't like let's just
go and make an offer to this person and that person.
We didn't know the answer. I could not determine what
is going to make the difference, like who's going to
be who's going to understand this at a level of
a Diana or Christen Like that wasn't a prescriptive thing
(25:02):
I could figure out. It was like, well, Noah, when
we see it, and we didn't want want stars. We
knew Wicked was big enough you could discover people, so
let's go searching, and then you discover the technical aspect
of the singing is really hard, so that you actually
probably do need professionals who have, like you know, been
through the through through the thing to to pull it off.
(25:22):
And then you're like, all right, then they have to
be an actor, Like you can't just sing. That is
not good enough, Like you have to connect to the
dots and you have to be able to do it
communicate it on screen, which is very different than on stage.
We went through everybody. I mean, the reality is we
wouldn't have made this movie if they didn't show up
at our doorstep. And it was the very loudst doorstep.
But Cynthia Rivo arrived and you're like, does she even
(25:44):
want to do this? Does it have to be there?
Because you know it can take over your life. It
has taken over her life now. But the moment she
sang it, it was unlike it at alphabet I had
ever seen before. Those words spoke to me in ways
that never and I've listened to it over and over
and over and over again. Wizard and I I saw,
(26:05):
I saw myself as a kid dreaming about, you know,
being a filmmaker in my dorm room when she's saying,
did that really just happen? And I then when she
gets onto the at that point, it wasn't a cliff yet,
but I could feel like she, oh, she needs to
be on a cliff here when she sings that last
not the Wizard and I and and she stops, and
the birds fly over, and there's a there's a rainbow
(26:26):
on the distance and that yearning. And yet when she
turns black to walk away, you think, oh, she's not
gonna she's not ready for that yet. That she turns
back and looks one little look and that's so typical
Synthory when she looks back and you can tell that
she's saying, well, one day I'm going to That little
thing is just like everything. So to me, that's so
different than than Adina, Like I didn't that's not competing
(26:47):
with a Dina. That's not anything. It's just a different
interpretation of alphaba. And yet we're using the bones of
what alpha what what what this character that that a
Dina dug deep into. So there's we were we were
on the shoulders of giants and Chris and especially like
she created these jokes and these things in workshops and
however they create and now they are Bible, and so
(27:08):
we try to stick to them. But at the same time,
the Glinda that we were going to choose had to
be it in a different way. When I saw Arianna
and she came in, she was the best way I
can explain it is she was the real life Glinda,
like as if I was reading, I was meeting the
Glinda that the show was based off of, because she
(27:29):
wasn't doing an impression of kristin Jenny. She was just
doing the spirit of it. And then I could give
her improv about other things and I would I was
watching Glinda trip over a chair or reading a book,
and that was when I knew, Okay, I like actors
who can play you can be President live because that's
where we're going to play, and we're going to make
this unique to us. So anyway, I didn't know it
(27:52):
would be this successful, though, to be honest, she would
be Academy Award nominated actors and that's it is deserved
in all the ways. But I don't think any of
us could have predicted that.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I always ask our guests what they've bookmarked this week,
and it can be something that you scrolled upon or
something you texted your friend, a song, a poem, a lyric.
What have you bookmarked this week?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
John? Bookwork this week? Well? I love this book by
my friend Jededi Jenkins called Mother Nature. I think it's
like such a beautiful book. He takes this car ride
with his mom. They have very different ideas of religion
of the world, and yet they're so sweet together. And
it's him not coming out to her, but him sort
of confronting her what he thinks, what she thinks about
(28:37):
that in ways that she's not comfortable with. And it's
just a beautiful story about two very opposite people. So
I always love that. But but I think the thing
that's been staying with me this week, only because we've
been promoting the film, Yes, I was like, what's the
name of the movie? Yes, we've been promoting Wicked. Is
this quote from the book itsself that we put on
(28:59):
the that we put on the tin Man's Outfit but
we never got a close above it, but it was
part of the It's from the l Frank Bomb book.
But it really motivated me on what the themes of
this are and it's a very simple thing. It's not romantic,
it's not something you would normally quote, but I feel
very connected to in the story of Wicked and what
(29:20):
where we are now, and it is if we walk
far enough, we shall sometime come to some place. I
just think that that when I think about fairy tales
and the story that we need to tell and equip
our children with, it's like, there is no grand thing
you're waiting for. There will be grand things, but just
(29:43):
keep walking and you will be at the place that
you're supposed to be. And I love that. It's just
not some flowery idea that it's just it is life.
Keep walking and explore and be curious. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay, John, you spent your entire life telling stories through
movement and through image, through song even but you've also
told a story through words in your memoir it's called Viewfinder,
a memoir of seeing and being seen, And that's a
really different kind of storytelling. It's nonfiction, it's internal, it's
completely non visual. What was it like to shift from
(30:30):
directing what we see to writing what you see?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, it was difficult. It was a two year process.
I was in between movies, and Jeremy McCarter, my co author,
was someone who was writing. He wrote the Hamilton book
and he was doing the behind the scenes for the
In the Heights book and we were talking about my
life growing up, and he's like, this is incredible. Like
(30:55):
you were at the cusp in the Silicon Valley in
the eighties when the right of the computer was coming.
You were there. You were giving computers and digital photography
before anyone your age should have it. You were then
going into you left this area and went to Hollywood
when there was no YouTube or social media. It was
(31:17):
still on a film and then there you by the
time you graduate, YouTube was happening and social media started
to happen, and you were at the cusp of all this,
at the front lines of it all, and you're finding
your cultural identity all at the same time, all the
way accumulating to crazy Riachasians and then now Wicked and
so it was just a really interesting like, yeah, I
was a frontline person who saw old Hollywood switch to
(31:39):
new Hollywood, switch from old technology to new technology, and
the Silicon Valley come and invade La eventually. So we
just had a lot of great perspective that it was
difficult to put my thoughts and my ideas into the words.
I would write down sort of free writing stuff, and
Jeremy was really helpful and saying no, this should go
in this order really connects in that and so we
(32:01):
just had a great time, and every few days we
would talk on the phone for a long time and
then we'd share different writings, and so it was a
really it was a really cool experience to see story
through that perspective.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I loved learning about your family, particularly your mom, and
maybe it's because I identify with that sort of relationship.
My mom has been so instrumental in my careers, like
she'll see things or convince me to do something. Will
you tell us the story of how your mom convinced
you to do stuff and what she said to you.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, you know. I graduated from college and I had
Steven Spielberg found me. He saw my short film, and
I like I had won the lottery. I got to
meet him, I got to go to his sets, and
I got movies set up at different studios around town.
But after a few years, all of those movies fell apart,
and suddenly five years later I found myself had not
(32:53):
made a movie yet, and I thought it was over.
I thought maybe I missed my opportunity. And so at
that point, my managers sent me scripts and they said,
there's this one thing you can do. It's a it's
a direct to DVD movie based off of a dance
movie sequel. And I was like what. I was like,
(33:15):
I was discovered by Steven Spielber. I am not, that's
not I do films. I go into theater movie theaters.
And I told my mom and she's like, when did
you become a snob? She's like, are you a storyteller
or are you not? If you're a storyteller, you should
be able to tell a story in any medium. You
should tell it, you know, in the back of your car,
in a conference room or around a fire or on DVD.
(33:38):
Like show them, you show yourself that you can actually
tell your story in this And I was like, so motiv.
I was like, you're right, mom, I'm going to be
the make the best damn direct to DVD dance movie
sequel ever. And so I rewrote the treatment of it
and went in and pitched, and then they decided to
make it into a feature film, and that was making
my first movie and made one hundred and over one
hundred and fifty million dollars world wide. It was it
(33:59):
was the story of everything, so I could get off
of my overthinking and high horse and just tell stories.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Does she take credit to this.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Day, one hundred she'll take credit. Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Did writing your own story change anything about your directorial process?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
That's an interesting question. I haven't. I didn't think that
deeply into that, but when I think about it, yeah,
I know it did. I know it did because I
I think of story differently. Writing a book was because
the structure was so different than anything I had ever
done before. It It made me realize that you're reading
(34:41):
a book is a different mental state. The reader's relationship
with a story is different than in a movie. And
I know that's obvious, but at the same time, you
don't know it until you're making the plumbing and then
you're trying to interpret your story into a form. And
there were moments where I thought it should be chronic logical,
and it was very clear to Jeremy. He's like, no, no, no,
(35:04):
this connects this way and you got to skip jump
here so that you can get to there. And I
just I just thought was fascinating and so and also
you know.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I guess we can jump cut here.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. But also it's an experience. You know,
when you're reading, there is an experience, an active experience happening.
It's not passive. So I loved learning a little bit
about that, and also freedom to explore, Like there's this
point where in the book where I'm trying to tell
the audience how my parents met, but I don't know
(35:35):
the real story, Like my parents have told me many
different stories and they all sort of float around the
same things, but I can't get actual facts from them.
And so he's like, Okay, here's the way you're going
to do it. Write it like a script in a movie,
and just like give that to me, and I'll ask
you another prompt and then you write that scene of that.
And so I did that, and it was so much
(35:56):
easier to try to explain or make sense of my parents'
story in that way and gave me think in film,
film and I and I and I, and it forced
me to think about how I think of my parents
or what I thought of them when they were young,
and I became I felt like I was there with
them when They're on the beach and my mom is
(36:17):
sitting there with her girlfriends, and this group of guys
in their suits walks across the beach in Santa Cruz
with their shoes on, and how these girls sort of
laugh at these guys. Just it just put me in
a space and it was really fascinating to do that exercise.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
It kind of sounds like you were describing Greece in
that moment.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I mean, it does have a thing. My mom was
like my mom always describes that as she was studying Russian,
she was like doing her homework for class Russian, and
then these guys came along and there was like music
playing in the beach and there was like barbecues going,
so it was very visceral.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Actually, So you've done TV and film and books. How
do you see these different mediums informing one another in
your work.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I see myself as a storyteller, like my mom always insisted,
and so I think the medium in which they are
expressed can be whatever medium they need to be it.
Maybe it could be even a podcast. But I think
that you know, when you go into film school, you're
locked in because it's the only thing you know, Like, oh,
(37:22):
I want to be a director. But when you get
to film school, you learn all sorts of aspects of
what go into production. You learn editing, you learn sound design,
you're learning you know cinematography, and maybe your storytelling plays
better in editing. Maybe your storytelling is not a director's lifestyle.
It's a very strange, weird lifestyle, and you have to
(37:43):
have sort of a certain personality, I think, to actually
live it. So I think that keeping your radar open
of if you are a storyteller, what is the medium
in which your storytelling telling is best at? And also
it can evolve over time. So I think that's what's happening.
I'm finding these new avenues in which to express the
(38:03):
stories that I feel like are filled my brain every day,
and so it's been fun to exercise those sides.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
When did you know or how did you know you
were a storyteller?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I think I was always a storyteller, for sure. I
mean I grew up in a restaurant, so everything it's
a house of stories. I say this in the book
that it's like everywhere people were telling about telling my
dad about their newest company, or about the gossip about
their family, and my dad was sharing them with the
gossip of my family, and so it was everyone was
there to share.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And if I may impose my opinion, I think it's
also because you come from a long story and you're
so aware of it, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I think that's a good point. I don't know if
I was aware of my story as being anything other
than like my life until much, much later. I think
I always felt like my story was boring. I think
I always felt like, oh, gosh, nobody wants to know
about the kid who has a loving family in a
(39:05):
restaurant and went to film decided to go do film
school and somehow was given cameras and software, didn't pay
for them and just started making movies and then got
discovered by Spielberg. Like it felt like nobody wants to
know that story, and yet looking back at it, there's
(39:25):
just so many moments of unknowns, And I think I
think the thing that I have found the most power
in my storytelling is that I have been telling myself
a story in my whole life that one day I'm
going to do this and that and oh, this is
a tough moment. I feel like I'm on the bottom,
but you know what this is going to be a
great chapter in my book. Oh my gosh, he just
(39:48):
said no, but this wait until we get a yes.
Then this is going to be a great day in
that story. That is the most powerful thing that I've
think I've been able to use to.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Survive at all as a fan. Something that I think
is so glorious is that you're doing Joseph and the
Technicolor dream Coat. All the places you'll go I have
I'm going to admit something embarrassing. Every year for my
birthday as a kid, I asked to go see Joseph
in the Technicolor dream Coat. I saw it seven times
(40:19):
in theater. Wow, Donny Osmon was my childhood crush, which
is weird. Most people's childhood crush was John Stamos or something.
Not mine, Donny Osmond. But it's going to be so
psychedelic for you. What's the difference between your superpower and synesthesia?
(40:40):
Because I heard you can see people's aura colors.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I knew this was going to come up. I don't
actually know what it means. That's why I don't like
bring it up that much. I just see colors when
asked to see it. But again, it people like to
try to interpret, Oh it means this or that, and
I'm like, I don't know. I haven't looked it up.
I don't know. And so like Cynthia and Auri would
always do it to me. So I just see when
(41:08):
I look at somebody, I can see it's sort of
like focus. We're like mm hmm. You know, if you're
not focusing on the foreground stuff, then you don't really
see it in every day but if you actually look
and you all adjusturise, and then you can kind of
see it. So I don't know what it means. This
is so cool, and I don't know when it changes,
the why.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
It changes, but it's going to be amazing when you
shoot that film.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
And it doesn't like, you know, how people can I
wish I could do the thing where people hear a
note and they see colors or like your number or
they see I did that doesn't I don't know what
that even means. I don't know how that's possible.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
It's unbelievable. Well, I just have one minute left with you,
so I'm going to put sixty seconds on the clock.
We're going to do speed read and see how many
rapid fire literary questions we can get through. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Okay, let's try.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Okay, we'll do our best three two one? What do
you think would be on Alphabo's bedside table? To read?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Ooh, the Great Gatsby?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
What book are you most grateful for?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
My Broken Language? By Kiara Houdas Alegria, who wrote in
the Heights.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
I know you said you love biographies. Do you have
a favorite one?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
I mean, it's so cheesy, but the Steve Jobs one
I love just because of Steve Jobs. But there's a
Chuck Jones one I don't remember the name of it
that I love. I don't know if it's considered a
biogos it's not really, it's not a biography at all.
But Bill by Tony Fiddel. It's like the sort of
his philosophy of not just inventing the iPod, but of
other from general magic and his journey.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Okay, your favorite fictional love story?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Well, the Great Gatsby? But I already said that one.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It's okay. I love the great favorite staging of a musical?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I think Hamilton is genius. I don't even watching it today,
it's like it's insane.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
What's your favorite page to screen adaptation?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Only because this is like nostalgia. But I remember reading
Jurassic Park before it was ever a movie and I
was obsessed.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Fabulous favorite fictional story between friends.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
M yeah, I guess let's say Wicked.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Let's okay. Last one? Your favorite book to recommend to
aspiring filmmakers.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
There's a book called Viewfinder that I really enjoy for
every creative person that's starting with.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Is do it Personal Plug?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I love it? Why not?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Last one? What is a book that you give most often?
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Mystery of Harris Burdict.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Fabulous, John Cheu. You are so interesting and I can
only imagine how exhausted you are and you're still this
smart and interesting. Thank you for sharing your time with us.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Thank you, appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Okay, friends. Before we wrap today's episode, I'm bringing back
our monthly comfort segment from Cotton, called the Booknook. It's
where we explore the rituals that make reading feel just right.
And as you know, Cotton is at the heart of
so many of like's everyday comforts. Whether that's your favorite
(44:01):
cozy sweater worn and scarf, or the sheets you slip
into after a long day. Cotton helps us feel grounded
and at ease, which makes it the perfect companion for
a good book wherever you read it. Let's hear from
another Bookmark listener sharing their ideal reading setup.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Hey, Danielle Hay Bookmarked. My name is Brittany and I'm
calling from New York City, so I can read anywhere
and everywhere. I mean, it's New York City. There are
so many great places, But my favorite place to read
is actually on the subway. I know it sounds like
the hardest place to focus, but the way the train
whirs as it speeds with the tunnels and the low
(44:41):
drownd of commuter chatter make for the perfect background noise.
And when things do get a little too loud, you know,
sometimes as a crying and baby, I can throw on
my favorite reading playlists of acoustic guitar ballads and it
really drowns out that noise. Also, the luminous glow of
the overhead lights make queting a breeze during sleepy morning
(45:02):
commutes when I forget my coffee, and if the train
gets a little too snug for me to open my book,
I can just throw on an audiobook instead and let
the story consume me. Are there other people out there
who enjoy a lively reading environment. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Happy reading, Brittany, I love this.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Only in New York could the subway double as the
perfect reading nook. There's something so real and alive about
your ritual. The hum of the train, the chatter of passengers,
the rhythm that somehow becomes its own kind of calm.
I can just picture you tucked into your commute, book
in hand, maybe in a cotton turtleneck or soft sweater,
tuning out the world one page at a time. It's
(45:42):
such a great reminder that comfort isn't always about quiet.
Sometimes it's about feeling at home, even in the middle
of the rush. So friends, keep your ideal reading setups coming.
Where do you get lost in a book? What textures
surround you? Soft sheets, a cozy throw, maybe your favorite cottonie.
Take me right into your reading ritual. Leave me a
(46:03):
voicemail at five zero one two nine, one three three
seven nine, or email a voice memo to bookmarked at
Reese's book club dot com. Thanks to Cotton for bringing
this segment to life and reminding us that comfort and
style can go hand in hand. Don't forget to check
the tag for Cotton, and if you want to learn more,
head to the fabric of OurLives dot com. And if
(46:27):
you want a little bit more from us, come hang
with us on socials. We're at Reese's book Club on Instagram,
serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic. And
I'm Danielle Robe, rob Ay, come say hi and DM
me and if you want to go nineties on us,
you can call us. Okay, so our phone line is open,
So call us now at five zero one two nine
(46:49):
one three three seven nine. That's five zero one two
nine one three three seven nine. Share your literary hot takes,
your book recommendations, oh please share those and questions about
the monthly pick, or just let us know what you
think about the episode you just heard. And who knows,
you might just hear yourself in our next episode, So
don't be shy. Give us a ring, and of course,
(47:10):
make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's book Club on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows.
Until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is
a production of Hello, Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. It's executive
produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Danielle Robe. Production is
by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Matty Foley, Britney Martinez,
(47:34):
and Sarah Schleid. Our production assistant is Avery Loftis. Jenny
Kaplan and Emily Rudder are the executive producers for ACAST
Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive
producers for Hello, Sunshine, Olga Cominoa. Sarah Kernerman, Kristin Perla
and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers for Reese's book Club.
Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are the executive producers for
(47:57):
iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
He ten
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi.
I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
This week, we're taking a little trip to the magical
land of Oz and we're talking with the person task
with reinterpreting a century's worth of storytelling. But don't worry, guys,
(00:22):
I think he's got this.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I used to think that stories are escaped, and I
think there's an element of that, but I actually think
the job of a story is to take you out
of your life, but land you back at home.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
John mchwo is the mastermind behind some of our favorite
film extravaganzas In the Heights, Crazy Rich Agents, Wicked Part One,
and now Wicked for Good. And while John is obviously
an incredible film director, he's also a writer, a dancer,
a dad, an or a reader. You'll get what I
(00:58):
mean in a little bit, I promise. I really love
the way John talked about all the ways we can
tell a story on and off the page. So if
you're in the mood for a conversation that goes behind
the creative process and sprinkles a little, you know what,
A lot of magic throughout maybe defies gravity. You are
(01:19):
so in the right place. Let's turn the page with
John m Chu. John Cheu, Welcome to the club.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Thank you very much. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We're so excited to have you in the club. Officially,
I have to start with probably the most serious question
of our hour, which is if you were to go
to the Wizard, what would you ask him?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I would ask him, would you please get out of here?
My friends? How far is too far for you? Yeah,
mister Wizard.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Absolutely, he really is the enemy of the franchise.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
He is the enemy. But at the same time, Jeff
Goblum's fascinating character. I don't know if you've ever really
interacted with him, but he's so funny. He's such a
huge student of literature, of art, of movies, and so
his philosophy on the Wizard is like, and you know,
maybe he's a storyteller that's just gone too far, someone
who's looking at entertainment and yes, they want a villain,
(02:17):
yes they want action and violence, and then what point
do you have a responsibility to the world that you're
creating through your stories? And so I love that that
this Wizard is a little bit more complicated than usual.
He's not a bumbling idiot. Maybe he's not meaning to
do it. Who is meaning to do any of these
bad things? But maybe it's someone who gets carried away.
At some point, we have to wake up and know
that our stories affect the world that we live in.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
He also left me with the question, does he truly
believe he's doing the right thing?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah? Exactly. I think that's you know, the I don't
know if people have seen the movie yet or not,
but at this point, you know, at the end, he
gets sort of trapped by the machine itself and eaten
alive in it. So yeah, sort of metaphorically, But it's
always something that I think about as a storyteller, and
especially now with kids. What are the stories that I
(03:04):
was told as a kid that made me believe in
the possibilities of America, of individuals, of community, And then
you know, now as an adult, how hard was it? Actually?
Are those stories actually true? Should we be believing in
fairy tales or is that just not good enough anymore?
And what are the fairy tales that we want to
pass on to our children, and do they we want
(03:25):
them to believe in the possibilities of our of our
childhood stories.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Do you, John Chu, believe in fairy tales?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I believe in big dreams because I am the recipient
of generosity by people and goodness of people from people
who used to come into the Chinese restaurants that my
parents owned and would give me camera equipment, monitors, computers, software.
I grew up in the Silicon Valley, so they would
give it to me because I was making videos and
(03:53):
I'm a product of that. And I'm the son of
immigrants this place of America with the great hope of
an American dream, going into the most America business in
the world, doing the most American genre of movie, the
movie musical that everyone says is dead. And I'm living
the dream. I have five kids and they're beautiful, and
I got to do achieve it all. And no matter
how hard it was, no matter how many times I
(04:16):
felt like I could be a victim, that that's not
anything that could hold me back. That the dream does exist.
If I can survive and I can flourish, then one
hundred percent that I'm proof that the dream is still
alive and that fairy tales can exist. Maybe the way
in which we tell these stories can shift. Maybe I
need to give my kids a little bit of equip
(04:39):
them with a couple more tools in their stories so
that they can know that it's not gingerbread houses and
yellow brick roads, but certainly the possibilities of optimism and
innovation and dreams I think are one hundred percent real.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And I think you do that in your work, regardless
of the medium, because you've worked in film and television,
you're a writer yourself. I do think you bring these
complex stories to life. And I heard that you first
saw Wicked the musical when it was still in workshop
before it made it onto Broadway. Yeah, and you thought
someone will make this a great movie someday. Did you
(05:17):
also think I have to read this book.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, at that point, I'm not sure I knew that
it was a book. I just knew that it was
Stephen schwartz new musical, and so I think at that
point it was I was enamored by this sort of
deconstruction of the American fairy tale. And I was going
through college at that moment, so friends that I had
grown up with were leaving my life, and I didn't
(05:40):
know how to categorize that or where to put that
in my brain, and there's not a lot of movies
or stories about friendships because it's not as romantic as romance,
you know, those whole industry is about romance and love
and you get married is the end goal and they
live happily ever after. But friendships, man oh man, No,
it is consistency. It is not romantic. It is show
(06:01):
up for them, and they show up for you, and
it's over years and maybe some float away, but the
good ones stick around, and maybe the good ones stick
around and there is a time where that era ends
as well. And how to say that that actually is
still valuable. So yeah, I just I love that we
get to explore that in these kind of stories.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So, I mean, friendship is at the center of wicket.
I can imagine that you dissected every part of friendship
as you went through this. Did you revisit the book
at all as part of your creative process?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Not really, And that's complicated because there are legal rights
to the book that this musical does not have. There
are you know, the way we interpret the movie, and
this is sort of getting in the weeds, but we
are based off of the musical, which is based off
of the book. So I had to be very cognizant,
but also aware that we can use the L. Frank
(06:56):
Baum as source material and the Denslow drawings as social material,
and I can use Wicked, the musical and the screenplay
of that as stuff. So I couldn't, even though I
love Gregory Maguire's book, it wasn't about like digging out
more from there. It was digging out the truth and
(07:17):
the material of the musical itself.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I'm so glad that you mentioned the complication because for
Good is the film adaptation of the second act of
the musical Wicked, which is based on the book Wicked,
which came after the movie The Wizard of Oz, which
was based on the book The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.
And that is so many creative cooks in the kitchen, John, Like,
that is a century of creative interpretation and a lot
(07:40):
of storytellers shaping this world. What did it feel like
to step into this legacy? And I guess even a
more specific question is there's so many creative fingerprints on
the story, what did you hold on to as yours?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well? I saw a really a funny tweet today and
I screen grabbed it just I thought it was so
funny it says scary how novels written one hundred and
twenty five years ago source material for a novel published
thirty years ago and a musical that premiere twenty two
years ago could lead to a pair of movies that
are more prescient and relevant than ever before. In twenty
(08:15):
twenty five, Happy New York premiere to Wicked for good
like it is insane, It is insane, but in a
weird way. It is the hallmark of a timeless story
that it is always timely in the interpretations of what's
nice is about Each person who's interpreted the Wizard of
Oz kind of understands that for some reason they understand
(08:36):
the subversive nature of this story or what it can
reflect back to a culture. Maybe because it is the
American fairy tale. So there's a lot of things that connect.
When you say American fairy tale, what does that mean?
So for me, when I looked at it, I knew
that Wicked was written right after nine to eleven, at
(08:56):
a time where America was going through great change, and
Wizard of Oz was written during a time of great
change in the turn of the century. And so I
got this, that's interesting the script. I got this script
at during COVID Lockdown, and I just had my first child,
and it made a lot of sense to me that
(09:17):
the world was crumbling all around me and that the
American dream was suddenly a facade or seemed like it,
and oh my gosh, that the adults maybe don't know
what they're doing. And I had to grow up, we
all had to grow up. Home didn't feel like home.
It felt like a strange place all the summer, Like
what do I need to feel home? And so those
questions came very relevant to me. So I knew that
(09:38):
if I were going to do this story that I
had to had to be a reflection of where we are.
That was the tradition actually that each artist that has
come in and come into OZ. And then as we
were making it, you know, when you cast Cynthia Rivo
and she's singing the words of Alphaba a woman who
is green, that means something very different to Cynthia Rivo,
(10:01):
and she's bringing her own decade long wounds and ideas
to the table. Right that changes every word that we've
known and we've heard over and over again. Something has
changed within me, something's not the same. I'm through with
playing by the rules of somebody else's game, Like to me,
that is just coming from her? Is it changed the
whole musical for me? And then you have arian, Yeah,
(10:22):
she's she's she's somebody who is literally the most popular
girl in the world, and she's going to seem popular,
and then she's going to deconstruct that idea of what
popular actually even means and how you can get lost
in this when everyone wants you to be happy and
be the light. How do you find your own light
if you don't even know who you are yet? So
I think for me it was the specificity of how
(10:43):
do I make this personal to myself, because it is
the tradition of this story that it's author or it's
not necessary author, it's interpreter, find its role in the
life of that it's being made in.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So was your rubric for deciding what you wanted to
keep into five your personal gut instinct?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It was my personal gut instinct about what the role
of the story has in our lives, because I think
that because this was about a story that we're told,
we're told about what the wicked Witch looks like and
(11:27):
how she acts, and we're finding out in the story,
it is not the truth, and you're you're with a
wizard who is spinning stories for power, and you're being
you're telling the animals that when you discourage animals enough,
it's it's easy to keep anyone silent. And we're making
(11:47):
a movie at a time where things are being silenced
all around us. So yeah, it felt like the only way,
the only reason to make this now is to speak
to the times that we're in. Because that's the best
thing about a movie musical is it's almost always the
best ones are always subversive, whether that's sound of music
(12:09):
or singing in the rain or cabaret.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
In the book and in the libretto, there's a lot
of internal dialogue and for characters, for a character like Alphaba,
you're turning so much monologue into visual language in the film.
How did you decide what stays internal versus what deserves
to be seen?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You know, we have the best tool to make the
internal xterior, which is song. So Winny years and years
ago made many choices about what to take from the
book and into the stage show. I got to take
that and say, and then Stephen Schwartz got to externalize
(12:49):
those in music. The power of a musical. Some people think, oh,
it's like a show and dance. Oh I hate musicals
because it's just performance. Actually it's not. It is it
is You get deeper and more in with a character
because you just you don't just have a soliloquy for
a character. You get melody. You get a note, and
one note can communicate with a paragraph never could communicate.
(13:12):
And you get movement, which means the way someone leans
on a microphone says a lot about what mood they're
and who they are. The way they aggressively look at
the characters says so much and I don't have to
say one word of it. So you get movement. And
that's not just dance, that's movement, that's posture. And so
you have that, and then you have song, and then
you have lyric, and lyric can say the exact opposite
what they're feeling. When Glinda is singing in the microphone,
(13:34):
it couldn't be happier. That isn't I want song, But
everything she's singing about is the opposite of what she wants.
So now I get to watch her sing what she
quote unquote says what she wants, but you see in
her eyes it's empty. It's complicated, as she says, and
I that power of a movie musical and when done right,
when you understand every tool that you have, you become
(13:59):
more intimate and to these characters. I think that's why
when people watch this movie they feel so moved, is
because we have permission from the audience to use these tools.
They've accepted these tools, and if we don't use them
to get us to care about a character more than
what are we using them for? For song and dance,
you can go on TikTok and get all the song
and dance you want. So it becomes only more important
(14:21):
as we use that language to and in the book,
you know you have the words so and you have
imagination and so we get to then through this other avenue,
get to those similar places.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Actually, is there a deleted scene that fans will never
see but you wish they could.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I know there's a scene that everyone wants to see
that we're not going to show them.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
What scene is that?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
There's a scene where in movie one, all the friends
from school, including Johnny Bailey, they go out into this
park and they have a great day together. It's like
this beautiful bonding scene and we just didn't need it
in the movie. It was just too extraneous. But there's
a scene where Johnny takes off hish shirt and starts
chopping wood and this guy his a pack looks amazing.
(15:07):
I mean, I don't know if I think if he
had that clip back, you know, a year ago, he
would have got sexiest Man Alive back then. So we
have we never we didn't play in the movie. It
was two extraneous, but that shot people have heard about
and they're like, they harassed me every day on Instagram
to share it. So you never know. But right now
(15:28):
I'm keeping it in the vault.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I do think that that People magazine should have had you,
Coleman and Jonathan Bailey together and it was like the
men of Wicked. That would have been my vote.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I definitely would not be invited to that cover,
but that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I love it. Your wife would have been so happy too.
She would have had bragging like what I've heard you
say that Wicked Part one is about choices and the
bravery to make those choices, and part two is about
(16:06):
consequences and staying with those choices, and it explores some
pretty heavy questions like why defend a home that doesn't
want you. I love that question. What scene or moment
do you think captures that?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, it's something when I was doing in the Heights
and there's this moment up Weella Claudia in that movie.
She's someone who came from another country and came to
this country and raised her family, her neighborhood there and
cared about them. But at a certain point it wasn't
working for her. So she's making this decision to go back.
And I always thought that was so interesting. I always
(16:41):
thought that was so complicated, like, oh, you don't hear
stories about people wanting to leave the United States. This
Weella cloudy idea of going home after her whole journey
here was I don't know. It was so I don't know,
different than I've ever heard. And so when we were
talking about Alphaba and what she would go through, and
this is not necessarily in the stage show, was happening
in movie two, was wouldn't she wonder why she would
(17:05):
even want to stay? Wouldn't she wonder like what happens
to this to a place that thinks you're the bad guy?
And that question is so relevant when you actually bring
it up because that's an actual debate that's happening every day.
That is the question that's at the core of Alphaba
because eventually, whether she thinks like she's not her responsibility
(17:26):
to fix this place and she leaves, or something else,
like she does ultimately leave and to use one of
the most iconic terms, there's no place like home. To
make that point, Oh, that's like heartbreaking just in saying
it out loud. And Stephen Schwartz is brilliant. He knew
this moment it was either going to be a scene
or a song to express this, and Stephen Schwortz, it's
(17:48):
a song and I know how it's going to play
out and this he at first it was like it's
going to be an anthem, like okay, but the question
is very deep, and so he added this opening that
was why do I love this place that never love me? Oh?
That was so heartbreaking in itself. And then she goes
on and she fights for it. She's like, no, no, no,
but this is we have to. The other animals are like,
(18:10):
I'm we're tired, we can't fight nowhere, and she's like, no,
we have to, and so it becomes this calling card.
But she doesn't finish the last note, and on purpose?
Why Because I think there's a difference between intention and completion,
and we can't at this moment have a completion of
(18:31):
the idea. It has to be cut off by the
troubles of the present, which is at that point the
cowardly lion that comes in and interrupts her and blames
her for things that she's done in her past. I
think you can have the idealism as we need to
fight for this place, but the reality always crashes back in.
It's not about an anthem, It's about a consistent living
(18:53):
and fighting. What do they say like independence feels like
rejection until it feels like growth, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I think we always think about actors emotionally and where
they are in a scene, But I don't know that
I've ever thought about where a director was emotionally shooting
a scene. Where were you emotionally when you shot that?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
We're shooting no place like home. I mean, it's very
personal question for me in terms of what is home
because I grew up in a very close knit family
in a Chinese restaurant that has very specific ideas about
what America is and what our family should be and
(19:41):
how close we should be, and I'm the one who left.
They all live in the area still I left. I
came to La to pursue the stream. And I always
struggle because I'm so close to my family about what
I'm creating away from them, and now that I have
five kids, like my whole life is changing. Oh my
home is here. Those are my am I supposed to
(20:02):
say relatives, No, that's my family too, Like it's very
confusing as an adult. Now you're supposed to be like,
what's the priority, But like, my wife is my priority,
My kids are my priority. When you're that close with
your family and they've survived for you, and they've lived
so much and sacrificed so much for you, it is
really hard to even like, maybe it's not a list,
you know, my mom taught us, Oh, you got to
(20:24):
be number one, you got to do this and that,
But me, it's not. Maybe maybe the whole thing is
like it's not a list, But I struggle with that.
So so when she's singing it, I and I look
at America and I think about this place I believe
in with all my heart, and I see how bad
we can be too. It breaks my heart that we
can't be everything that I thought we were, and so
(20:47):
as she's singing it, I'm very I'm very invested in
that it's not I don't want her to blame anything,
and I don't want I just want her to be
like searching, and so that's sort of what I'm doing
as I'm watching her perform. Of Course, I need to
be very to capture what she's doing, and I need
to be aware that if I need to move the
camera to get to juice something that she's doing, I
have to be plugged in right where she is. So
(21:08):
I'm usually really close to the camera. I'm usually like
on the ground somewhere, and I'm trying to feel everything
that she's giving so that I can because the movie
usually starts to speak back to you. She's doing usually
something different. On the day we have she did all
her singing live, both of them, so so we have
a pianist right off camera, and she has an earwig
in her in her ear so she can hear the piano.
(21:29):
She can go off tempo if she wants, or she
can go on tempo. The pianist is supposed to watch
follow her, and so I am also following her in
a way, and as she's doing it, things are changing
and I'm finding things, so I can be like, oh,
you hit this moment, let me get it closer right here,
so I can be hey, let me push the camera
in just slightly here. Or if you walk into this
light right when you sing that lyric, you're giving you're
(21:51):
giving this sort of surrender. But if you walk into
the light on that surrender, I think we're gonna it's gonna,
it's going to enhance that idea. So it's just being present.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I'm wondering if you think that fantasy books and musicals
offer escapism or are they amplifying real life.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I used to think that stories are escape. That was
when I watched ET. They took me to another planet
and my jaw was on the floor in awe. And
I think there is an element of that. But I
actually think the job of a story is to take
you out of your life but land you back at home.
(22:34):
I think the I think that the job of the
artist is to explore the dark places or the intricate,
conflicting areas of the human species and our feelings, so
that people who need to put food on the table
and give a roof over their children's head can do that,
(22:58):
and still when they watch something or hear something or
read something, can experience another part of their humanity that
they know that they feel inside but maybe don't have
the time to process. And that's why I'm very sensitive
and I love actors and writers because they have to
access these parts that are so deep and so scary.
It can spin you around and around and around. And
(23:18):
some people call that, you know, dramatic and whatever, but
like that's what we actually all feel inside, and that
is what's running our lives. That is what's running how
you look at the world. And so when I when
I'm working on a on a movie, I'm we're asking
these actors to be emotionally available and in toort of
to confront darkness, you have to like sort of step
(23:38):
into darkness. And so I try to be very sensitive
that that there are they are our explorers of the
of the internal. And so, yeah, it's making a movie
is very it's we have to protect each other and
hold each other's hands what we're going through and who
God knows who we're going to find. And I think
when you're in terms of escape, I think that it
(23:58):
is a scared to a place that's very close to
our hearts anything and wondering awe as a part of that,
I guess, because you want to like pop out of
your life, but leading always back to real life here.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
You know, Kristin chenow With and Adina Manzel had they
played these characters so iconically and theater kids came to
know them so well. What conversations did you have with
Cynthia and Ariana about making these parts their own? Because
I can imagine it's hard, like their their performances were
so recognizable. I think about that riff that Kiki Palmer
(24:34):
did all of Awards season and like, how do you
make this? Like it's almost an impossible task.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and I think that we auditioned a lot of people.
It was a reason why it wasn't like let's just
go and make an offer to this person and that person.
We didn't know the answer. I could not determine what
is going to make the difference, like who's going to
be who's going to understand this at a level of
a Diana or Christen Like that wasn't a prescriptive thing
(25:02):
I could figure out. It was like, well, Noah, when
we see it, and we didn't want want stars. We
knew Wicked was big enough you could discover people, so
let's go searching, and then you discover the technical aspect
of the singing is really hard, so that you actually
probably do need professionals who have, like you know, been
through the through through the thing to to pull it off.
(25:22):
And then you're like, all right, then they have to
be an actor, Like you can't just sing. That is
not good enough, Like you have to connect to the
dots and you have to be able to do it
communicate it on screen, which is very different than on stage.
We went through everybody. I mean, the reality is we
wouldn't have made this movie if they didn't show up
at our doorstep. And it was the very loudst doorstep.
But Cynthia Rivo arrived and you're like, does she even
(25:44):
want to do this? Does it have to be there?
Because you know it can take over your life. It
has taken over her life now. But the moment she
sang it, it was unlike it at alphabet I had
ever seen before. Those words spoke to me in ways
that never and I've listened to it over and over
and over and over again. Wizard and I I saw,
(26:05):
I saw myself as a kid dreaming about, you know,
being a filmmaker in my dorm room when she's saying,
did that really just happen? And I then when she
gets onto the at that point, it wasn't a cliff yet,
but I could feel like she, oh, she needs to
be on a cliff here when she sings that last
not the Wizard and I and and she stops, and
the birds fly over, and there's a there's a rainbow
(26:26):
on the distance and that yearning. And yet when she
turns black to walk away, you think, oh, she's not
gonna she's not ready for that yet. That she turns
back and looks one little look and that's so typical
Synthory when she looks back and you can tell that
she's saying, well, one day I'm going to That little
thing is just like everything. So to me, that's so
different than than Adina, Like I didn't that's not competing
(26:47):
with a Dina. That's not anything. It's just a different
interpretation of alphaba. And yet we're using the bones of
what alpha what what what this character that that a
Dina dug deep into. So there's we were we were
on the shoulders of giants and Chris and especially like
she created these jokes and these things in workshops and
however they create and now they are Bible, and so
(27:08):
we try to stick to them. But at the same time,
the Glinda that we were going to choose had to
be it in a different way. When I saw Arianna
and she came in, she was the best way I
can explain it is she was the real life Glinda,
like as if I was reading, I was meeting the
Glinda that the show was based off of, because she
(27:29):
wasn't doing an impression of kristin Jenny. She was just
doing the spirit of it. And then I could give
her improv about other things and I would I was
watching Glinda trip over a chair or reading a book,
and that was when I knew, Okay, I like actors
who can play you can be President live because that's
where we're going to play, and we're going to make
this unique to us. So anyway, I didn't know it
(27:52):
would be this successful, though, to be honest, she would
be Academy Award nominated actors and that's it is deserved
in all the ways. But I don't think any of
us could have predicted that.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I always ask our guests what they've bookmarked this week,
and it can be something that you scrolled upon or
something you texted your friend, a song, a poem, a lyric.
What have you bookmarked this week?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
John? Bookwork this week? Well? I love this book by
my friend Jededi Jenkins called Mother Nature. I think it's
like such a beautiful book. He takes this car ride
with his mom. They have very different ideas of religion
of the world, and yet they're so sweet together. And
it's him not coming out to her, but him sort
of confronting her what he thinks, what she thinks about
(28:37):
that in ways that she's not comfortable with. And it's
just a beautiful story about two very opposite people. So
I always love that. But but I think the thing
that's been staying with me this week, only because we've
been promoting the film, Yes, I was like, what's the
name of the movie? Yes, we've been promoting Wicked. Is
this quote from the book itsself that we put on
(28:59):
the that we put on the tin Man's Outfit but
we never got a close above it, but it was
part of the It's from the l Frank Bomb book.
But it really motivated me on what the themes of
this are and it's a very simple thing. It's not romantic,
it's not something you would normally quote, but I feel
very connected to in the story of Wicked and what
(29:20):
where we are now, and it is if we walk
far enough, we shall sometime come to some place. I
just think that that when I think about fairy tales
and the story that we need to tell and equip
our children with, it's like, there is no grand thing
you're waiting for. There will be grand things, but just
(29:43):
keep walking and you will be at the place that
you're supposed to be. And I love that. It's just
not some flowery idea that it's just it is life.
Keep walking and explore and be curious. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay, John, you spent your entire life telling stories through
movement and through image, through song even but you've also
told a story through words in your memoir it's called Viewfinder,
a memoir of seeing and being seen, And that's a
really different kind of storytelling. It's nonfiction, it's internal, it's
completely non visual. What was it like to shift from
(30:30):
directing what we see to writing what you see?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, it was difficult. It was a two year process.
I was in between movies, and Jeremy McCarter, my co author,
was someone who was writing. He wrote the Hamilton book
and he was doing the behind the scenes for the
In the Heights book and we were talking about my
life growing up, and he's like, this is incredible. Like
(30:55):
you were at the cusp in the Silicon Valley in
the eighties when the right of the computer was coming.
You were there. You were giving computers and digital photography
before anyone your age should have it. You were then
going into you left this area and went to Hollywood
when there was no YouTube or social media. It was
(31:17):
still on a film and then there you by the
time you graduate, YouTube was happening and social media started
to happen, and you were at the cusp of all this,
at the front lines of it all, and you're finding
your cultural identity all at the same time, all the
way accumulating to crazy Riachasians and then now Wicked and
so it was just a really interesting like, yeah, I
was a frontline person who saw old Hollywood switch to
(31:39):
new Hollywood, switch from old technology to new technology, and
the Silicon Valley come and invade La eventually. So we
just had a lot of great perspective that it was
difficult to put my thoughts and my ideas into the words.
I would write down sort of free writing stuff, and
Jeremy was really helpful and saying no, this should go
in this order really connects in that and so we
(32:01):
just had a great time, and every few days we
would talk on the phone for a long time and
then we'd share different writings, and so it was a
really it was a really cool experience to see story
through that perspective.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I loved learning about your family, particularly your mom, and
maybe it's because I identify with that sort of relationship.
My mom has been so instrumental in my careers, like
she'll see things or convince me to do something. Will
you tell us the story of how your mom convinced
you to do stuff and what she said to you.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, you know. I graduated from college and I had
Steven Spielberg found me. He saw my short film, and
I like I had won the lottery. I got to
meet him, I got to go to his sets, and
I got movies set up at different studios around town.
But after a few years, all of those movies fell apart,
and suddenly five years later I found myself had not
(32:53):
made a movie yet, and I thought it was over.
I thought maybe I missed my opportunity. And so at
that point, my managers sent me scripts and they said,
there's this one thing you can do. It's a it's
a direct to DVD movie based off of a dance
movie sequel. And I was like what. I was like,
(33:15):
I was discovered by Steven Spielber. I am not, that's
not I do films. I go into theater movie theaters.
And I told my mom and she's like, when did
you become a snob? She's like, are you a storyteller
or are you not? If you're a storyteller, you should
be able to tell a story in any medium. You
should tell it, you know, in the back of your car,
in a conference room or around a fire or on DVD.
(33:38):
Like show them, you show yourself that you can actually
tell your story in this And I was like, so motiv.
I was like, you're right, mom, I'm going to be
the make the best damn direct to DVD dance movie
sequel ever. And so I rewrote the treatment of it
and went in and pitched, and then they decided to
make it into a feature film, and that was making
my first movie and made one hundred and over one
hundred and fifty million dollars world wide. It was it
(33:59):
was the story of everything, so I could get off
of my overthinking and high horse and just tell stories.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Does she take credit to this.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Day, one hundred she'll take credit. Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Did writing your own story change anything about your directorial process?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
That's an interesting question. I haven't. I didn't think that
deeply into that, but when I think about it, yeah,
I know it did. I know it did because I
I think of story differently. Writing a book was because
the structure was so different than anything I had ever
done before. It It made me realize that you're reading
(34:41):
a book is a different mental state. The reader's relationship
with a story is different than in a movie. And
I know that's obvious, but at the same time, you
don't know it until you're making the plumbing and then
you're trying to interpret your story into a form. And
there were moments where I thought it should be chronic logical,
and it was very clear to Jeremy. He's like, no, no, no,
(35:04):
this connects this way and you got to skip jump
here so that you can get to there. And I
just I just thought was fascinating and so and also
you know.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I guess we can jump cut here.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. But also it's an experience. You know,
when you're reading, there is an experience, an active experience happening.
It's not passive. So I loved learning a little bit
about that, and also freedom to explore, Like there's this
point where in the book where I'm trying to tell
the audience how my parents met, but I don't know
(35:35):
the real story, Like my parents have told me many
different stories and they all sort of float around the
same things, but I can't get actual facts from them.
And so he's like, Okay, here's the way you're going
to do it. Write it like a script in a movie,
and just like give that to me, and I'll ask
you another prompt and then you write that scene of that.
And so I did that, and it was so much
(35:56):
easier to try to explain or make sense of my parents'
story in that way and gave me think in film,
film and I and I and I, and it forced
me to think about how I think of my parents
or what I thought of them when they were young,
and I became I felt like I was there with
them when They're on the beach and my mom is
(36:17):
sitting there with her girlfriends, and this group of guys
in their suits walks across the beach in Santa Cruz
with their shoes on, and how these girls sort of
laugh at these guys. Just it just put me in
a space and it was really fascinating to do that exercise.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
It kind of sounds like you were describing Greece in
that moment.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I mean, it does have a thing. My mom was
like my mom always describes that as she was studying Russian,
she was like doing her homework for class Russian, and
then these guys came along and there was like music
playing in the beach and there was like barbecues going,
so it was very visceral.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Actually, So you've done TV and film and books. How
do you see these different mediums informing one another in
your work.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I see myself as a storyteller, like my mom always insisted,
and so I think the medium in which they are
expressed can be whatever medium they need to be it.
Maybe it could be even a podcast. But I think
that you know, when you go into film school, you're
locked in because it's the only thing you know, Like, oh,
(37:22):
I want to be a director. But when you get
to film school, you learn all sorts of aspects of
what go into production. You learn editing, you learn sound design,
you're learning you know cinematography, and maybe your storytelling plays
better in editing. Maybe your storytelling is not a director's lifestyle.
It's a very strange, weird lifestyle, and you have to
(37:43):
have sort of a certain personality, I think, to actually
live it. So I think that keeping your radar open
of if you are a storyteller, what is the medium
in which your storytelling telling is best at? And also
it can evolve over time. So I think that's what's happening.
I'm finding these new avenues in which to express the
(38:03):
stories that I feel like are filled my brain every day,
and so it's been fun to exercise those sides.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
When did you know or how did you know you
were a storyteller?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I think I was always a storyteller, for sure. I
mean I grew up in a restaurant, so everything it's
a house of stories. I say this in the book
that it's like everywhere people were telling about telling my
dad about their newest company, or about the gossip about
their family, and my dad was sharing them with the
gossip of my family, and so it was everyone was
there to share.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And if I may impose my opinion, I think it's
also because you come from a long story and you're
so aware of it, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I think that's a good point. I don't know if
I was aware of my story as being anything other
than like my life until much, much later. I think
I always felt like my story was boring. I think
I always felt like, oh, gosh, nobody wants to know
about the kid who has a loving family in a
(39:05):
restaurant and went to film decided to go do film
school and somehow was given cameras and software, didn't pay
for them and just started making movies and then got
discovered by Spielberg. Like it felt like nobody wants to
know that story, and yet looking back at it, there's
(39:25):
just so many moments of unknowns, And I think I
think the thing that I have found the most power
in my storytelling is that I have been telling myself
a story in my whole life that one day I'm
going to do this and that and oh, this is
a tough moment. I feel like I'm on the bottom,
but you know what this is going to be a
great chapter in my book. Oh my gosh, he just
(39:48):
said no, but this wait until we get a yes.
Then this is going to be a great day in
that story. That is the most powerful thing that I've
think I've been able to use to.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Survive at all as a fan. Something that I think
is so glorious is that you're doing Joseph and the
Technicolor dream Coat. All the places you'll go I have
I'm going to admit something embarrassing. Every year for my
birthday as a kid, I asked to go see Joseph
in the Technicolor dream Coat. I saw it seven times
(40:19):
in theater. Wow, Donny Osmon was my childhood crush, which
is weird. Most people's childhood crush was John Stamos or something.
Not mine, Donny Osmond. But it's going to be so
psychedelic for you. What's the difference between your superpower and synesthesia?
(40:40):
Because I heard you can see people's aura colors.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I knew this was going to come up. I don't
actually know what it means. That's why I don't like
bring it up that much. I just see colors when
asked to see it. But again, it people like to
try to interpret, Oh it means this or that, and
I'm like, I don't know. I haven't looked it up.
I don't know. And so like Cynthia and Auri would
always do it to me. So I just see when
(41:08):
I look at somebody, I can see it's sort of
like focus. We're like mm hmm. You know, if you're
not focusing on the foreground stuff, then you don't really
see it in every day but if you actually look
and you all adjusturise, and then you can kind of
see it. So I don't know what it means. This
is so cool, and I don't know when it changes,
the why.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
It changes, but it's going to be amazing when you
shoot that film.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
And it doesn't like, you know, how people can I
wish I could do the thing where people hear a
note and they see colors or like your number or
they see I did that doesn't I don't know what
that even means. I don't know how that's possible.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
It's unbelievable. Well, I just have one minute left with you,
so I'm going to put sixty seconds on the clock.
We're going to do speed read and see how many
rapid fire literary questions we can get through. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Okay, let's try.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Okay, we'll do our best three two one? What do
you think would be on Alphabo's bedside table? To read?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Ooh, the Great Gatsby?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
What book are you most grateful for?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
My Broken Language? By Kiara Houdas Alegria, who wrote in
the Heights.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
I know you said you love biographies. Do you have
a favorite one?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
I mean, it's so cheesy, but the Steve Jobs one
I love just because of Steve Jobs. But there's a
Chuck Jones one I don't remember the name of it
that I love. I don't know if it's considered a
biogos it's not really, it's not a biography at all.
But Bill by Tony Fiddel. It's like the sort of
his philosophy of not just inventing the iPod, but of
other from general magic and his journey.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Okay, your favorite fictional love story?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Well, the Great Gatsby? But I already said that one.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It's okay. I love the great favorite staging of a musical?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I think Hamilton is genius. I don't even watching it today,
it's like it's insane.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
What's your favorite page to screen adaptation?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Only because this is like nostalgia. But I remember reading
Jurassic Park before it was ever a movie and I
was obsessed.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Fabulous favorite fictional story between friends.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
M yeah, I guess let's say Wicked.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Let's okay. Last one? Your favorite book to recommend to
aspiring filmmakers.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
There's a book called Viewfinder that I really enjoy for
every creative person that's starting with.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Is do it Personal Plug?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I love it? Why not?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Last one? What is a book that you give most often?
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Mystery of Harris Burdict.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Fabulous, John Cheu. You are so interesting and I can
only imagine how exhausted you are and you're still this
smart and interesting. Thank you for sharing your time with us.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Thank you, appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Okay, friends. Before we wrap today's episode, I'm bringing back
our monthly comfort segment from Cotton, called the Booknook. It's
where we explore the rituals that make reading feel just right.
And as you know, Cotton is at the heart of
so many of like's everyday comforts. Whether that's your favorite
(44:01):
cozy sweater worn and scarf, or the sheets you slip
into after a long day. Cotton helps us feel grounded
and at ease, which makes it the perfect companion for
a good book wherever you read it. Let's hear from
another Bookmark listener sharing their ideal reading setup.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Hey, Danielle Hay Bookmarked. My name is Brittany and I'm
calling from New York City, so I can read anywhere
and everywhere. I mean, it's New York City. There are
so many great places, But my favorite place to read
is actually on the subway. I know it sounds like
the hardest place to focus, but the way the train
whirs as it speeds with the tunnels and the low
(44:41):
drownd of commuter chatter make for the perfect background noise.
And when things do get a little too loud, you know,
sometimes as a crying and baby, I can throw on
my favorite reading playlists of acoustic guitar ballads and it
really drowns out that noise. Also, the luminous glow of
the overhead lights make queting a breeze during sleepy morning
(45:02):
commutes when I forget my coffee, and if the train
gets a little too snug for me to open my book,
I can just throw on an audiobook instead and let
the story consume me. Are there other people out there
who enjoy a lively reading environment. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Happy reading, Brittany, I love this.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Only in New York could the subway double as the
perfect reading nook. There's something so real and alive about
your ritual. The hum of the train, the chatter of passengers,
the rhythm that somehow becomes its own kind of calm.
I can just picture you tucked into your commute, book
in hand, maybe in a cotton turtleneck or soft sweater,
tuning out the world one page at a time. It's
(45:42):
such a great reminder that comfort isn't always about quiet.
Sometimes it's about feeling at home, even in the middle
of the rush. So friends, keep your ideal reading setups coming.
Where do you get lost in a book? What textures
surround you? Soft sheets, a cozy throw, maybe your favorite cottonie.
Take me right into your reading ritual. Leave me a
(46:03):
voicemail at five zero one two nine, one three three
seven nine, or email a voice memo to bookmarked at
Reese's book club dot com. Thanks to Cotton for bringing
this segment to life and reminding us that comfort and
style can go hand in hand. Don't forget to check
the tag for Cotton, and if you want to learn more,
head to the fabric of OurLives dot com. And if
(46:27):
you want a little bit more from us, come hang
with us on socials. We're at Reese's book Club on Instagram,
serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic. And
I'm Danielle Robe, rob Ay, come say hi and DM
me and if you want to go nineties on us,
you can call us. Okay, so our phone line is open,
So call us now at five zero one two nine
(46:49):
one three three seven nine. That's five zero one two
nine one three three seven nine. Share your literary hot takes,
your book recommendations, oh please share those and questions about
the monthly pick, or just let us know what you
think about the episode you just heard. And who knows,
you might just hear yourself in our next episode, So
don't be shy. Give us a ring, and of course,
(47:10):
make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's book Club on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows.
Until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is
a production of Hello, Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. It's executive
produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Danielle Robe. Production is
by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Matty Foley, Britney Martinez,
(47:34):
and Sarah Schleid. Our production assistant is Avery Loftis. Jenny
Kaplan and Emily Rudder are the executive producers for ACAST
Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive
producers for Hello, Sunshine, Olga Cominoa. Sarah Kernerman, Kristin Perla
and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers for Reese's book Club.
Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are the executive producers for
(47:57):
iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
He ten
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