April 19, 2025 • 26 mins
ICYMI: Hour Two of ‘Later, with Mo’Kelly’ Presents – An in-depth conversation with prolific actor Carl Lumbly who joins the program to celebrate the digital release of ‘Captain America: Brave New World’ where-in Lumbly co-stars as Isaiah Bradley, "the forgotten super-solider, and arguably, the original Captain America, whose story finally comes to the light" … PLUS – Mark Rahner has a review of ‘Sinners;’ the amazing new “Jim Crow-era vampire film” from Director Ryan Coogler, starring Michael B. Jordan in the Rahner Report - on KFI AM 640…Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
KFI AM six forty, We're live everywhere in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
It's Later with Moe Kelly.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Isaiah Bradley, the Forgotten Captain America, has finally brought into
the light, only to be in prison once again after
what seemed to be an attempt on the President's life
perpetrated by Bradley.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
That's Isaiah Bradley, the Isaiah Bradley. You brought me to
the forgotten cav Why don't you say something. It is
a pleasure to meet you. Your missions in career are
a legendary and after that no action, I mean a
lot of change in the world.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We could have used another super soldier.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
The United States government threw me in prison for thirty years.
They experimented on me for decades.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Makes sense. That sucks. Can we start?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Let's do it so sets the stage for Captain America
Brave New World, now available on digital and four KUHD
blu Ray. Isaiah Bradley is played by the iconic Carl Lumley,
who joins me now on the show. Carl Lumley an
honor to privilege to have you on Sarah. How are you?
Speaker 6 (01:07):
I'm well? Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Mo Kevin Minneapolis, Minnesota. Long way from Hollywood, minor for
the Associated Press.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Long way from.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hollywood, connect the dots from me from there in that
job to Hollywood, I.
Speaker 7 (01:20):
Followed my heart to San Francisco to get to Hollywood.
I was in a relationship with someone who moved to
San Francisco shortly after I had had a dabbling bit
of work on an improvisational company theater, but I knew
that wasn't it. So I was heading to San Francisco
to be with her. And as it happened, my boss
(01:44):
at AP had recently been transferred to San Francisco and
told me that there would be an opportunity coming up
in a couple of weeks if I could give him
some time. And so I had love in my heart
and potential work, and so I had to get a couch.
And there was an ad in newspaper. It was called
(02:04):
the Performing Arts column that didn't exist in Minneapolis. And
in that column there was an ad that said two
black actors needed for South African political plays. I read
the play, thought it was amazing, went to this theater
auditioned and it was two people, a two hander, and
the other person was Danny Glover, and we began performing
(02:28):
together and we toured it in California and we ended
up in Los Angeles at one point and did it
and we got agents, and so I was at Los
Angelino for about a year and then went to New York,
where I thought, this is it stage mecca workshops plays constantly,
(02:50):
lots to be read, lots to learn, and that was
what I thought of as my academy until I got
cast in something that brought me to Los Angeles, and
it was a series called Cagey and Lacy.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
It was on for six episodes and then it was
taken off the air.
Speaker 7 (03:09):
I went back to New York with rent money, prepared
to take on New York again, and there was a
campaign that went on, so the Cagni and Lacy was
put back on the air for a couple of shows
and it went on for six years. I actually met
my wife on that show and she did not want
(03:31):
to move to New York. So I was back in
Los Angeles and that was that.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I go way back with you and your career. You're
not new to this superhero's genre. I'm talking about your
time as doctor Miles Hawkins as Mantis some thirty years ago.
We saw you as part of the Supergirl TV show.
We heard you as part of the DC Animated Universe.
Did you take anything specifically from your role as doctor
(03:57):
Miles Hawkins and put it into Isaiah Bradley.
Speaker 7 (04:01):
Some of the life experience that I had while working
on not only what was in the scripts, but just
the actual idea of playing a character where certain people
felt it was perhaps not appropriate or not believable. This
character was wildly accomplished. He was brilliant. He had become
(04:27):
injured and he was living in a wheelchair, and he
decided he wanted to do something about the crime and
the area of violence in which he found himself. So
he perfected this suit which would allow him to get
up and take part in stopping crime without taking life.
Speaker 8 (04:49):
He's a brilliant scientist with a dream I want to
walk again. But what he becomes f imagination and the
director of the Man.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
And You Won't Win.
Speaker 8 (05:11):
Comes a new brief superior.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
Who only monous, And that was something that I leaned
on quite a bit, because I think what happened with
Isaiah was something was introduced into his system that gave
him a tremendous amount of strength and capability, But the
greatest control he had to have was his own his
(05:36):
own mind and his own heart. And I think with
everything that Isaiah went through, with the betrayal, with the experimentation,
with being locked away, with not being recognized, nothing could
assail that sense of himself and that sense of love
that he had locked away in his heart, and that
(05:58):
was embodied in faith his young wife who he left
and never saw again. So the idea of wanting to
do something to help and having some people believe you're
at the wrong messenger, there were similarities there that I
think I could draw on in developing Isaiah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
How or when did you learn that Isaiah Bradley first
introduced in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier would have
life on the big screen.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
Just shortly before we started shooting, And it was a
wonderful surprise.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
You know.
Speaker 7 (06:36):
I think there's always possibility, and you hope that some
of the things people tell you are true if they
tell you that they enjoy what you did and they
think it was positive, But there's nothing that has to happen,
So whatever does happen I holde that as some think
(07:00):
I should be grateful for, and that's how I feel
about Isaiah.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
Very grateful Isaiah. Look at you. This is Sam, Sam,
this is Isaiah. He was a hero, one of the
ones that hydrophy the most. Like Steve.
Speaker 8 (07:21):
We met him fifty one.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
If I met you, I whipped your ass. Then yeah,
we heard whisper as he was on the peninsula. But
everyone they sent her after him never came back. So
the US military dropped me behind the line to go
deal with him. I took half that metal arm in
(07:45):
that fighting yang, but I see he's managed to grow
it back. I just wanted to see if he got
the arm back, or if he'd come to kill me.
Speaker 8 (07:56):
Not a killer anymore.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
You think you can wake up one day and decide
who you want to be. It doesn't work like that.
Well maybe it does for folks like you.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We have to take a brief news break, and then
on the other side. I'll continue my conversation with Carl Lumley,
who co starred as Isaiah Bradley in Captain America Brave
New World, which is now available on digital and four
k UHD blu Ray More with Carl Lumley In just
a moment.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's Later with mo Kelly live everywhere in the iHeartRadio
app and video simulcasting on YouTube. I'm in the middle
of a conversation right now with Isaiah Bradley, the Forgotten
Captain America. You know him from Captain America Brave New World.
Carl Lumley plays Isaiah Bradley and Captain America. Brave New
(08:53):
World is now available on digital and four k UHD
Blu Ray and Carl Let's pick up there. Anthony Mackie
not only played the role of Sam Wilson Captain America,
but was very direct, I would say, almost breaking the
fourth wall, talking about the burden that he, as a
black Captain America, would have in juxtaposing against the storyline
(09:14):
of Isaiah Bradley and history's long refusal to acknowledge him.
You kind of touched upon it. But talk to me
about some of the conversations, if any, you had with
Anthony about the nature of Isaiah's and Sam's relationship on screen.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
In The Falcon and Winter Soldier.
Speaker 7 (09:32):
I think we covered a lot of ground in that
initial meeting, in that initial moment in the house where
both of us got a chance to be very honest
with one another. Sam could say, you've got to understand
how important your story is, and you've got to come
(09:53):
out of hiding. And Isaiah could say, I don't know
what you're doing wanting to be in America. Why would
you want to do that? Not simply because I know
my lived experiences that was not America's desire, but also
(10:13):
because there's the world that Isaiah knew well, it's a
very very different world from the world that Sam now
lives in. And Sam has a kind of an agency,
and Sam makes assumptions that Isaiah can barely conceive that
people can be trusted, that there are allies, that there
(10:37):
are more people who are looking for connection than disconnections.
He's had some bad experiences, and he also can't trust
that what was done to him is not continuing an
experiment that locks you away, that fills you full of
toxins and substances in an attempt figure out why you
(11:01):
haven't died yet. There's a lot to that. So whatever
residual bits of that are left inside his system, his
physical system in his psychological system. That's what he's dealing with,
and Sam helps him be willing to step back into
the world. That's a lot. I'm not gonna talk about
(11:22):
it anymore. You know what they did to me for
being a hero.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
They put my ass in jail for thirty years, people
who run in tests, taking my blood, coming into my cell.
Even your people weren't done with me.
Speaker 8 (11:46):
I say him, get out of my house.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
Let's go on, Let's go.
Speaker 9 (11:58):
Sam.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Why didn't you tell me about Isaiah?
Speaker 8 (12:00):
How could nobody bring him up?
Speaker 5 (12:06):
I asked you a question, Bucky, I know Steve didn't
know about him.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
He didn't.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
I didn't tell him.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
So you're telling me that there was a black supersoge
decades ago and.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Nobody knew about him.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I look at the character of Isaiah Bradley, and I
look at the man Carl Lumley. You had this habit
of playing strong, confident African American characters, and I assume
that's by choice, not by chance. But was finding those
types of roles a difficult search for you over the years.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
To be honest with moll Kelly, I think it's by
choice chance. Chat Many of the things that I'm most
happy about just came to me, either by way of
opportunity to audition or by an offer, and if they
share certain similarities. Maybe sometimes it's because if someone has
(12:57):
seen you do something, they think of you doing that
thing in their project, whatever it is. I consider myself
strong enough. I think my strength lies in areas that
when I was younger, I didn't think were particularly strong.
You know, I've spoken with a number of nerds of color,
(13:18):
and when I was growing up, yes I was.
Speaker 6 (13:23):
But there weren't a whole we didn't have a group.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
In fact, it seemed like part of your nerdhood was
being on it by yourself, and it wasn't like people were, oh, gosh,
there's a nerd, let's go hang out with him. So
I spent a lot of time with books. I spent
a lot of time by myself. I spent a lot
of time developing my own sense of what I thought
(13:48):
was important and my own notions about strength. Some had
to do with being resilient, Some had to do with
not letting people know how much something hurt or how
much something mattered. So those kinds of techniques I think
(14:08):
were survival techniques. I'm saying that looking back, on them now,
because I think that's.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Where my strength comes from.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
I feel like the characters that I'm drawn to don't
necessarily have an easy go or they feel a need
to be exemplary, they feel a need to show away,
and I'm happy walking that journey with them.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Carlumly, my time is with you has just about run out.
Just one last question, and it's a simple question, but
maybe an impossible question. If Isaiah Bradley were to meet
up with Steve Rogers Captain America one, what would he say?
What would Isaiah say? In two?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Would he beat him in a fight?
Speaker 7 (14:53):
He would say, I wish you hadn't been stuck in
the Pacific. I wish you had been able to conducted
the suicide mission that I did, which turned out not
to be a suicide mission. And I have no desire
to fight you. You and I both represent what should
be the highest ideals for humankind and mankind, whether they
(15:16):
live up to themselves or not, and so we have
much more in common. Let's go have an espresso and
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Captain America Brave New World now available on digital and
four k u h D blu Ray Carl Lumley, Sir,
once again, a pleasure to have you on. Thank you
so much for your time this evening.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Oh my pleasure. O Kelly, take care of them.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's Later with Mo Kelly k IF I AM six forty.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI A M six forty Nature.
Speaker 8 (15:56):
Talks about pontificates about pop culture.
Speaker 10 (16:00):
Run and Report with Mark Ronner.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Kf I AM six forty. This Later with moke Kelly.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We're live on YouTube and also iHeartRadio Mark Runner with
the Runner Report.
Speaker 11 (16:19):
All Right, I'm not gonna make you wait for it.
Sinners is my favorite movie so far this year. It's
only April, but this one's gonna be a tough one
to beat. It's a terrific movie. It's a terrific vampire movie.
It's a terrific period movie. And it's a terrific black movie.
Here's a good bed at the trailer right here. It's long,
but it's good.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
We've been going a long time. Be back now.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
You twins, now we cousins.
Speaker 9 (16:50):
There are legends of people with the gift of making
music so true, picking conscious spirits from the path and
you this given you can bring fame and fortune.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
Will somebody tip me?
Speaker 9 (17:12):
But it also can piece the veil between life and there.
Listen here, this ain't no house party.
Speaker 6 (17:28):
Also, you keep dancing with the devil.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Careful boy, you're gonna bite off logan. You can't you
One day he's gonna follow you home?
Speaker 11 (17:44):
He does.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
It's a problem.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
Now the hell going on?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We heard tale of a party?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
This world already left you for death.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
I can save you from your faith. You don't need
no saving, Yes you do, and you will.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I am your way out.
Speaker 8 (18:10):
Don't care.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
It's all better now.
Speaker 8 (18:14):
Just a lot, I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Will you imagine?
Speaker 12 (18:21):
Ghost just powers somebody.
Speaker 8 (18:38):
Whom we're gonna kill every last morning?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Up?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Now?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Did I miss a bleep?
Speaker 8 (18:44):
There?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
If?
Speaker 5 (18:45):
So?
Speaker 11 (18:45):
Lucky you if you're watching on the live stream. Center
stars Michael B. Jordan and is directed and written by
his frequent partner Ryan Coogler. And right out of the gate,
there's a gimmick that could have ground the whole thing
to a shrieking halt and turned it into a joke.
Jordan is playing twin brothers and I kept waiting for
that to get ridiculous, But it's played straight, and it's
seamless enough that eventually you just settle into it and
stop looking for bloopers. It's the nineteen thirties and the
(19:08):
brothers are some sort of former gangsters returning from Chicago
to their really imp impoverished hometown in Mississippi, where a
lot of their friends are still picking cotton, and the
Blues is their transcendent form of entertainment if they're not
in church, and I mean transcendent in ways that I'm
not going to spoil. The brothers are well dressed, they're
flush with cash and weapons, and they want to open
their own juke joint. And it's lucky. This is decades
(19:31):
before a Yelp, but also really extremely unlucky as well,
vampire unlucky. They take their time getting there. The story's
immersive in a way that reminded me of Black Panther,
which is also a Koogler Jordan deal. The brothers have
to assemble a team first, just like in a western
or a superhero movie, and it's a great cast that
includes some familiar faces and some new ones. The vampires
(19:53):
are creepy, and they're led by a kind of a
charismatic musical redneck who you heard in the trailer. It's
also an R rated movie with some grown up content,
and by that I mean dirty sex, which is refreshing.
I keep wondering why American movies have gotten so puritanical,
yet they show violence and gore that would gross out
a corner with no problem about the only things I
(20:13):
wasn't crazy about With Sinners, the dialogue was hard to
understand pretty often due to what I guess was some
sort of period authentic mumbling and slang. I'm gonna be
one of the geezers who watches it with the subtitles
on when it's available at home, and I am going
to watch it again, and it almost overstays.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
It's welcome.
Speaker 11 (20:29):
It's a good two hours and seventeen minutes, and I
think I could have trimmed that seventeen pretty easily. But
if you're going into this, you're gonna leave feeling satisfied.
And I think a little move too, especially by an epilogue,
you want to make sure that you stay for when
the credits start rolling. I'm trying not to tell you
too much. In fact, I would avoid the trailers for
Sinners too, because some of them give too much away
(20:51):
now I want to bring too Wala into this twiler there.
Did you like Sinners as much as I did? I
think I loved it more. I loved every thing about
this film from the beginning. This film is set in
a point of time and in the South when my grandmother,
not my great grandmother, my grandmother was ten years old
(21:15):
in that same period in Texas. My grandmother used to
tell me stories about my great grandmother and sharecropping and
farming and all that. So watching this film, it took
me immediately to a place of stories that I grew
up listening to and hearing my grandmother talk about. I
know you and Fush couldn't see it, but there was
(21:37):
the point of time when the film came to an
end and I did everything I could to hide my
face in my sweater and cry. I went to my
car and cried for a good twenty minutes after because
of how deeply this film touched me. This film is
transcendent on a whole bunch of different levels. Beyond the
(21:59):
good act and beyond the good storyline, beyond the good action,
the jump effects, you jump scares when needs be. This
film took me to a place that I didn't think
it was actually going to I didn't think the film
was going to go that deep into this storyline and
into this this level of storytelling.
Speaker 13 (22:20):
And wow it did. And it's haunting. It's very, very
haunting in what it did for me. And you missed
the second end credit scene, which is actually even more
of a rewarding ending when you get to that second
end credits.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (22:37):
Wow, Yeah, there's a second end credit scene. Okay, you
got to tell me about that. Off the air, I
was moved by it as well. In fact, I think
it's kind of an instant classic. That's the first thing
I thought when I left there. It's also a great
looking movie, and I mentioned that it was good on
all sorts of fronts as a period movie and also
as a black movie. But it also did not feel
(22:58):
like a lecture ever was entertaining from start to finish.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 13 (23:02):
No, absolutely, there were several messages that I know were
directly and pointedly for the African American artists, without saying message,
without trying to preach. There was a side of the
South that they were trying to show. There's a side
of the South that they were highlighting that I think
(23:23):
more filmmakers when they tell these stories, when they go
into stories about the past involving African Americans, there is
a type of story that Moe and I do not
go and see, we do not participate with, we do
not support, and those are inward.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
You can't do that movies.
Speaker 13 (23:42):
And it is when you have a movie about I
don't care a team of basketball players who are from
a certain part of the town and could never play basketball,
but they all come together and in the end they
beat that team and it's like, oh, I guess you
in words can do that. Be it pilots, be it debate,
be it swimmers, you name it. There are too many
(24:03):
films that come out where they tell these stories and
it starts with us being this thing, this pejorative, and
in the end it's like, I guess we had you
pejoratives all wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, yeah, I use the term.
Speaker 11 (24:16):
When you and I were just talking off the air
the other day, We're talking about black movies, and I
mentioned that I wasn't crazy about the kind that I
think are just suffering porn.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Does that make sense to you? Yes?
Speaker 13 (24:27):
Yes, too many of those that just absolutely suck this
film instant classic. I mean, this is one I will
watch again and again and again. It's got that level
of talent behind it. It's gonna be hard to beat
that film this year.
Speaker 11 (24:41):
Now. I haven't seen fruit Vale Station, but of all
the Coogler movies that I have seen, I think this
is the best. I think he's really come into his
own as a filmmaker. And even the stuff that I
wasn't crazy about, I wouldn't take out of the movie
because that's his vision.
Speaker 13 (24:57):
Yes, yes, yes, I took it all and say, you
know what, he wanted to put this in for a minute.
He wanted to stretch the scene out for a minute,
which is why I need to go back and see
it again. I understood all the dialogue, and I think
it's maybe just because I'm more used to hearing that
level of dialogue. I was like, and then my mom
thinking of myself, I wonder if everyone else knows what
they're saying, because I know what they're saying.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (25:19):
If I had a time machine and I was transported
back to then I would have been the guy going, huh, that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Was a vernacular line? Was it vernacular? It was that?
Speaker 11 (25:27):
And the delivery as well, Yes, yeah, Well, we both
loved it. Foush, I don't think you loved it quite
as much, but it was good. It's just I think
I guess the wave was sold to me.
Speaker 14 (25:39):
I thought it was a little bit more like action
feat you know, filled a little bit. But I mean, yeah,
you guys hit everything on the market, especially the especially
the having trouble understanding them for a decent amount of
the film.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It was kind of hard. Yeah.
Speaker 11 (25:53):
They immerse you in the world so that when the
action finally does happen, it feels very earned to me,
if that makes sense to you.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, all right, Well there's your report.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
MO.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You got to see this. You should have been there.
I should have been there, but life was life and
then gotten away. But I'll try to see it this weekend.
KFI AM six forty we're live on YouTube and the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
We go through all the thing that's going on so
that we can tell you just that you need to know.
Speaker 11 (26:17):
KFI and the KOST HD two Los Angeles, Orange County
Speaker 8 (26:23):
Live everywhere on the ear radiop
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
KFI AM six forty, We're live everywhere in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
It's Later with Moe Kelly.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Isaiah Bradley, the Forgotten Captain America, has finally brought into
the light, only to be in prison once again after
what seemed to be an attempt on the President's life
perpetrated by Bradley.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
That's Isaiah Bradley, the Isaiah Bradley. You brought me to
the forgotten cav Why don't you say something. It is
a pleasure to meet you. Your missions in career are
a legendary and after that no action, I mean a
lot of change in the world.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We could have used another super soldier.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
The United States government threw me in prison for thirty years.
They experimented on me for decades.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Makes sense. That sucks. Can we start?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Let's do it so sets the stage for Captain America
Brave New World, now available on digital and four KUHD
blu Ray. Isaiah Bradley is played by the iconic Carl Lumley,
who joins me now on the show. Carl Lumley an
honor to privilege to have you on Sarah. How are you?
Speaker 6 (01:07):
I'm well? Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Mo Kevin Minneapolis, Minnesota. Long way from Hollywood, minor for
the Associated Press.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Long way from.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hollywood, connect the dots from me from there in that
job to Hollywood, I.
Speaker 7 (01:20):
Followed my heart to San Francisco to get to Hollywood.
I was in a relationship with someone who moved to
San Francisco shortly after I had had a dabbling bit
of work on an improvisational company theater, but I knew
that wasn't it. So I was heading to San Francisco
to be with her. And as it happened, my boss
(01:44):
at AP had recently been transferred to San Francisco and
told me that there would be an opportunity coming up
in a couple of weeks if I could give him
some time. And so I had love in my heart
and potential work, and so I had to get a couch.
And there was an ad in newspaper. It was called
(02:04):
the Performing Arts column that didn't exist in Minneapolis. And
in that column there was an ad that said two
black actors needed for South African political plays. I read
the play, thought it was amazing, went to this theater
auditioned and it was two people, a two hander, and
the other person was Danny Glover, and we began performing
(02:28):
together and we toured it in California and we ended
up in Los Angeles at one point and did it
and we got agents, and so I was at Los
Angelino for about a year and then went to New York,
where I thought, this is it stage mecca workshops plays constantly,
(02:50):
lots to be read, lots to learn, and that was
what I thought of as my academy until I got
cast in something that brought me to Los Angeles, and
it was a series called Cagey and Lacy.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
It was on for six episodes and then it was
taken off the air.
Speaker 7 (03:09):
I went back to New York with rent money, prepared
to take on New York again, and there was a
campaign that went on, so the Cagni and Lacy was
put back on the air for a couple of shows
and it went on for six years. I actually met
my wife on that show and she did not want
(03:31):
to move to New York. So I was back in
Los Angeles and that was that.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I go way back with you and your career. You're
not new to this superhero's genre. I'm talking about your
time as doctor Miles Hawkins as Mantis some thirty years ago.
We saw you as part of the Supergirl TV show.
We heard you as part of the DC Animated Universe.
Did you take anything specifically from your role as doctor
(03:57):
Miles Hawkins and put it into Isaiah Bradley.
Speaker 7 (04:01):
Some of the life experience that I had while working
on not only what was in the scripts, but just
the actual idea of playing a character where certain people
felt it was perhaps not appropriate or not believable. This
character was wildly accomplished. He was brilliant. He had become
(04:27):
injured and he was living in a wheelchair, and he
decided he wanted to do something about the crime and
the area of violence in which he found himself. So
he perfected this suit which would allow him to get
up and take part in stopping crime without taking life.
Speaker 8 (04:49):
He's a brilliant scientist with a dream I want to
walk again. But what he becomes f imagination and the
director of the Man.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
And You Won't Win.
Speaker 8 (05:11):
Comes a new brief superior.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
Who only monous, And that was something that I leaned
on quite a bit, because I think what happened with
Isaiah was something was introduced into his system that gave
him a tremendous amount of strength and capability, But the
greatest control he had to have was his own his
(05:36):
own mind and his own heart. And I think with
everything that Isaiah went through, with the betrayal, with the experimentation,
with being locked away, with not being recognized, nothing could
assail that sense of himself and that sense of love
that he had locked away in his heart, and that
(05:58):
was embodied in faith his young wife who he left
and never saw again. So the idea of wanting to
do something to help and having some people believe you're
at the wrong messenger, there were similarities there that I
think I could draw on in developing Isaiah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
How or when did you learn that Isaiah Bradley first
introduced in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier would have
life on the big screen.
Speaker 7 (06:29):
Just shortly before we started shooting, And it was a
wonderful surprise.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
You know.
Speaker 7 (06:36):
I think there's always possibility, and you hope that some
of the things people tell you are true if they
tell you that they enjoy what you did and they
think it was positive, But there's nothing that has to happen,
So whatever does happen I holde that as some think
(07:00):
I should be grateful for, and that's how I feel
about Isaiah.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
Very grateful Isaiah. Look at you. This is Sam, Sam,
this is Isaiah. He was a hero, one of the
ones that hydrophy the most. Like Steve.
Speaker 8 (07:21):
We met him fifty one.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
If I met you, I whipped your ass. Then yeah,
we heard whisper as he was on the peninsula. But
everyone they sent her after him never came back. So
the US military dropped me behind the line to go
deal with him. I took half that metal arm in
(07:45):
that fighting yang, but I see he's managed to grow
it back. I just wanted to see if he got
the arm back, or if he'd come to kill me.
Speaker 8 (07:56):
Not a killer anymore.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
You think you can wake up one day and decide
who you want to be. It doesn't work like that.
Well maybe it does for folks like you.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We have to take a brief news break, and then
on the other side. I'll continue my conversation with Carl Lumley,
who co starred as Isaiah Bradley in Captain America Brave
New World, which is now available on digital and four
k UHD blu Ray More with Carl Lumley In just
a moment.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's Later with mo Kelly live everywhere in the iHeartRadio
app and video simulcasting on YouTube. I'm in the middle
of a conversation right now with Isaiah Bradley, the Forgotten
Captain America. You know him from Captain America Brave New World.
Carl Lumley plays Isaiah Bradley and Captain America. Brave New
(08:53):
World is now available on digital and four k UHD
Blu Ray and Carl Let's pick up there. Anthony Mackie
not only played the role of Sam Wilson Captain America,
but was very direct, I would say, almost breaking the
fourth wall, talking about the burden that he, as a
black Captain America, would have in juxtaposing against the storyline
(09:14):
of Isaiah Bradley and history's long refusal to acknowledge him.
You kind of touched upon it. But talk to me
about some of the conversations, if any, you had with
Anthony about the nature of Isaiah's and Sam's relationship on screen.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
In The Falcon and Winter Soldier.
Speaker 7 (09:32):
I think we covered a lot of ground in that
initial meeting, in that initial moment in the house where
both of us got a chance to be very honest
with one another. Sam could say, you've got to understand
how important your story is, and you've got to come
(09:53):
out of hiding. And Isaiah could say, I don't know
what you're doing wanting to be in America. Why would
you want to do that? Not simply because I know
my lived experiences that was not America's desire, but also
(10:13):
because there's the world that Isaiah knew well, it's a
very very different world from the world that Sam now
lives in. And Sam has a kind of an agency,
and Sam makes assumptions that Isaiah can barely conceive that
people can be trusted, that there are allies, that there
(10:37):
are more people who are looking for connection than disconnections.
He's had some bad experiences, and he also can't trust
that what was done to him is not continuing an
experiment that locks you away, that fills you full of
toxins and substances in an attempt figure out why you
(11:01):
haven't died yet. There's a lot to that. So whatever
residual bits of that are left inside his system, his
physical system in his psychological system. That's what he's dealing with,
and Sam helps him be willing to step back into
the world. That's a lot. I'm not gonna talk about
(11:22):
it anymore. You know what they did to me for
being a hero.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
They put my ass in jail for thirty years, people
who run in tests, taking my blood, coming into my cell.
Even your people weren't done with me.
Speaker 8 (11:46):
I say him, get out of my house.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
Let's go on, Let's go.
Speaker 9 (11:58):
Sam.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Why didn't you tell me about Isaiah?
Speaker 8 (12:00):
How could nobody bring him up?
Speaker 5 (12:06):
I asked you a question, Bucky, I know Steve didn't
know about him.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
He didn't.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
I didn't tell him.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
So you're telling me that there was a black supersoge
decades ago and.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Nobody knew about him.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I look at the character of Isaiah Bradley, and I
look at the man Carl Lumley. You had this habit
of playing strong, confident African American characters, and I assume
that's by choice, not by chance. But was finding those
types of roles a difficult search for you over the years.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
To be honest with moll Kelly, I think it's by
choice chance. Chat Many of the things that I'm most
happy about just came to me, either by way of
opportunity to audition or by an offer, and if they
share certain similarities. Maybe sometimes it's because if someone has
(12:57):
seen you do something, they think of you doing that
thing in their project, whatever it is. I consider myself
strong enough. I think my strength lies in areas that
when I was younger, I didn't think were particularly strong.
You know, I've spoken with a number of nerds of color,
(13:18):
and when I was growing up, yes I was.
Speaker 6 (13:23):
But there weren't a whole we didn't have a group.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
In fact, it seemed like part of your nerdhood was
being on it by yourself, and it wasn't like people were, oh, gosh,
there's a nerd, let's go hang out with him. So
I spent a lot of time with books. I spent
a lot of time by myself. I spent a lot
of time developing my own sense of what I thought
(13:48):
was important and my own notions about strength. Some had
to do with being resilient, Some had to do with
not letting people know how much something hurt or how
much something mattered. So those kinds of techniques I think
(14:08):
were survival techniques. I'm saying that looking back, on them now,
because I think that's.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Where my strength comes from.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
I feel like the characters that I'm drawn to don't
necessarily have an easy go or they feel a need
to be exemplary, they feel a need to show away,
and I'm happy walking that journey with them.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Carlumly, my time is with you has just about run out.
Just one last question, and it's a simple question, but
maybe an impossible question. If Isaiah Bradley were to meet
up with Steve Rogers Captain America one, what would he say?
What would Isaiah say? In two?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Would he beat him in a fight?
Speaker 7 (14:53):
He would say, I wish you hadn't been stuck in
the Pacific. I wish you had been able to conducted
the suicide mission that I did, which turned out not
to be a suicide mission. And I have no desire
to fight you. You and I both represent what should
be the highest ideals for humankind and mankind, whether they
(15:16):
live up to themselves or not, and so we have
much more in common. Let's go have an espresso and
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Captain America Brave New World now available on digital and
four k u h D blu Ray Carl Lumley, Sir,
once again, a pleasure to have you on. Thank you
so much for your time this evening.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Oh my pleasure. O Kelly, take care of them.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's Later with Mo Kelly k IF I AM six forty.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI A M six forty Nature.
Speaker 8 (15:56):
Talks about pontificates about pop culture.
Speaker 10 (16:00):
Run and Report with Mark Ronner.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Kf I AM six forty. This Later with moke Kelly.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We're live on YouTube and also iHeartRadio Mark Runner with
the Runner Report.
Speaker 11 (16:19):
All Right, I'm not gonna make you wait for it.
Sinners is my favorite movie so far this year. It's
only April, but this one's gonna be a tough one
to beat. It's a terrific movie. It's a terrific vampire movie.
It's a terrific period movie. And it's a terrific black movie.
Here's a good bed at the trailer right here. It's long,
but it's good.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
We've been going a long time. Be back now.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
You twins, now we cousins.
Speaker 9 (16:50):
There are legends of people with the gift of making
music so true, picking conscious spirits from the path and
you this given you can bring fame and fortune.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
Will somebody tip me?
Speaker 9 (17:12):
But it also can piece the veil between life and there.
Listen here, this ain't no house party.
Speaker 6 (17:28):
Also, you keep dancing with the devil.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Careful boy, you're gonna bite off logan. You can't you
One day he's gonna follow you home?
Speaker 11 (17:44):
He does.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
It's a problem.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
Now the hell going on?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
We heard tale of a party?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
This world already left you for death.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
I can save you from your faith. You don't need
no saving, Yes you do, and you will.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I am your way out.
Speaker 8 (18:10):
Don't care.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
It's all better now.
Speaker 8 (18:14):
Just a lot, I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Will you imagine?
Speaker 12 (18:21):
Ghost just powers somebody.
Speaker 8 (18:38):
Whom we're gonna kill every last morning?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Up?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Now?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Did I miss a bleep?
Speaker 8 (18:44):
There?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
If?
Speaker 5 (18:45):
So?
Speaker 11 (18:45):
Lucky you if you're watching on the live stream. Center
stars Michael B. Jordan and is directed and written by
his frequent partner Ryan Coogler. And right out of the gate,
there's a gimmick that could have ground the whole thing
to a shrieking halt and turned it into a joke.
Jordan is playing twin brothers and I kept waiting for
that to get ridiculous, But it's played straight, and it's
seamless enough that eventually you just settle into it and
stop looking for bloopers. It's the nineteen thirties and the
(19:08):
brothers are some sort of former gangsters returning from Chicago
to their really imp impoverished hometown in Mississippi, where a
lot of their friends are still picking cotton, and the
Blues is their transcendent form of entertainment if they're not
in church, and I mean transcendent in ways that I'm
not going to spoil. The brothers are well dressed, they're
flush with cash and weapons, and they want to open
their own juke joint. And it's lucky. This is decades
(19:31):
before a Yelp, but also really extremely unlucky as well,
vampire unlucky. They take their time getting there. The story's
immersive in a way that reminded me of Black Panther,
which is also a Koogler Jordan deal. The brothers have
to assemble a team first, just like in a western
or a superhero movie, and it's a great cast that
includes some familiar faces and some new ones. The vampires
(19:53):
are creepy, and they're led by a kind of a
charismatic musical redneck who you heard in the trailer. It's
also an R rated movie with some grown up content,
and by that I mean dirty sex, which is refreshing.
I keep wondering why American movies have gotten so puritanical,
yet they show violence and gore that would gross out
a corner with no problem about the only things I
(20:13):
wasn't crazy about With Sinners, the dialogue was hard to
understand pretty often due to what I guess was some
sort of period authentic mumbling and slang. I'm gonna be
one of the geezers who watches it with the subtitles
on when it's available at home, and I am going
to watch it again, and it almost overstays.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
It's welcome.
Speaker 11 (20:29):
It's a good two hours and seventeen minutes, and I
think I could have trimmed that seventeen pretty easily. But
if you're going into this, you're gonna leave feeling satisfied.
And I think a little move too, especially by an epilogue,
you want to make sure that you stay for when
the credits start rolling. I'm trying not to tell you
too much. In fact, I would avoid the trailers for
Sinners too, because some of them give too much away
(20:51):
now I want to bring too Wala into this twiler there.
Did you like Sinners as much as I did? I
think I loved it more. I loved every thing about
this film from the beginning. This film is set in
a point of time and in the South when my grandmother,
not my great grandmother, my grandmother was ten years old
(21:15):
in that same period in Texas. My grandmother used to
tell me stories about my great grandmother and sharecropping and
farming and all that. So watching this film, it took
me immediately to a place of stories that I grew
up listening to and hearing my grandmother talk about. I
know you and Fush couldn't see it, but there was
(21:37):
the point of time when the film came to an
end and I did everything I could to hide my
face in my sweater and cry. I went to my
car and cried for a good twenty minutes after because
of how deeply this film touched me. This film is
transcendent on a whole bunch of different levels. Beyond the
(21:59):
good act and beyond the good storyline, beyond the good action,
the jump effects, you jump scares when needs be. This
film took me to a place that I didn't think
it was actually going to I didn't think the film
was going to go that deep into this storyline and
into this this level of storytelling.
Speaker 13 (22:20):
And wow it did. And it's haunting. It's very, very
haunting in what it did for me. And you missed
the second end credit scene, which is actually even more
of a rewarding ending when you get to that second
end credits.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (22:37):
Wow, Yeah, there's a second end credit scene. Okay, you
got to tell me about that. Off the air, I
was moved by it as well. In fact, I think
it's kind of an instant classic. That's the first thing
I thought when I left there. It's also a great
looking movie, and I mentioned that it was good on
all sorts of fronts as a period movie and also
as a black movie. But it also did not feel
(22:58):
like a lecture ever was entertaining from start to finish.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 13 (23:02):
No, absolutely, there were several messages that I know were
directly and pointedly for the African American artists, without saying message,
without trying to preach. There was a side of the
South that they were trying to show. There's a side
of the South that they were highlighting that I think
(23:23):
more filmmakers when they tell these stories, when they go
into stories about the past involving African Americans, there is
a type of story that Moe and I do not
go and see, we do not participate with, we do
not support, and those are inward.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
You can't do that movies.
Speaker 13 (23:42):
And it is when you have a movie about I
don't care a team of basketball players who are from
a certain part of the town and could never play basketball,
but they all come together and in the end they
beat that team and it's like, oh, I guess you
in words can do that. Be it pilots, be it debate,
be it swimmers, you name it. There are too many
(24:03):
films that come out where they tell these stories and
it starts with us being this thing, this pejorative, and
in the end it's like, I guess we had you
pejoratives all wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, yeah, I use the term.
Speaker 11 (24:16):
When you and I were just talking off the air
the other day, We're talking about black movies, and I
mentioned that I wasn't crazy about the kind that I
think are just suffering porn.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Does that make sense to you? Yes?
Speaker 13 (24:27):
Yes, too many of those that just absolutely suck this
film instant classic. I mean, this is one I will
watch again and again and again. It's got that level
of talent behind it. It's gonna be hard to beat
that film this year.
Speaker 11 (24:41):
Now. I haven't seen fruit Vale Station, but of all
the Coogler movies that I have seen, I think this
is the best. I think he's really come into his
own as a filmmaker. And even the stuff that I
wasn't crazy about, I wouldn't take out of the movie
because that's his vision.
Speaker 13 (24:57):
Yes, yes, yes, I took it all and say, you
know what, he wanted to put this in for a minute.
He wanted to stretch the scene out for a minute,
which is why I need to go back and see
it again. I understood all the dialogue, and I think
it's maybe just because I'm more used to hearing that
level of dialogue. I was like, and then my mom
thinking of myself, I wonder if everyone else knows what
they're saying, because I know what they're saying.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (25:19):
If I had a time machine and I was transported
back to then I would have been the guy going, huh, that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Was a vernacular line? Was it vernacular? It was that?
Speaker 11 (25:27):
And the delivery as well, Yes, yeah, Well, we both
loved it. Foush, I don't think you loved it quite
as much, but it was good. It's just I think
I guess the wave was sold to me.
Speaker 14 (25:39):
I thought it was a little bit more like action
feat you know, filled a little bit. But I mean, yeah,
you guys hit everything on the market, especially the especially
the having trouble understanding them for a decent amount of
the film.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It was kind of hard. Yeah.
Speaker 11 (25:53):
They immerse you in the world so that when the
action finally does happen, it feels very earned to me,
if that makes sense to you.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, all right, Well there's your report.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
MO.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You got to see this. You should have been there.
I should have been there, but life was life and
then gotten away. But I'll try to see it this weekend.
KFI AM six forty we're live on YouTube and the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
We go through all the thing that's going on so
that we can tell you just that you need to know.
Speaker 11 (26:17):
KFI and the KOST HD two Los Angeles, Orange County
Speaker 8 (26:23):
Live everywhere on the ear radiop
Later, with Mo'Kelly News
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com