July 31, 2023 • 37 mins
Much has been said on both sides of the Jim Irsay-Jonathan Taylor story in Indianapolis. Doug sides with the Colts' owner as he agrees that the running back market is what it is and is simple economics. Doug explains why he is on Aaron Rodgers side in the story involving Sean Payton. NFL Writer for The Athletic Mike Sando joins Doug to talk about his recent quarterback tiers article that is out right now. Plus, Dan Beyer takes Doug through a game of "Big Deal, Little Deal or No Deal?".
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(01:06):
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Rodgers versus Sean Payton will get to Mike Sando's gonna
join us. He's an NFL writer for the Athletic He's
got his quarterback tiers. I'll be interested to see where
his quarterback tiers take us. And then of course we
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(01:26):
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(02:09):
should be, Alright. You know, there's a lot of back
and forth at times between agents, players and teams. Hey,
but this Jonathan Taylor versus Jim Ersay with this thing
took on a whole another level of nastiness over the weekend.
(02:32):
Here's Jim ersay own to the Colts over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
If I die tonight and Jonathan Taylor's the league, no
one's gonna miss us.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
The league goes on.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, you know, we know that the National Football
rolls on. It doesn't matter, you know who who comes
and who goes.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So obviously that didn't sit well. The agent had some
comments for the Colts. There's apparently a trade demand that
was made. There this story out there that Jonathan Taylor
checked in to Colts camp and said he had a
bad back and hurt his back in his own private workouts.
Taylor went on to social media last night and said
(03:11):
never said anything about the back, but he shut down.
He's in a negotiation. Remember he's a second round draft pick,
not a first round pick, so there's no fifth year option.
Excuse me, but there is there is still the franchise
tag two years over for the Colts in the back
of their pocket. And the reports are that in the
contract extension talks he wants sixteen million a year. And
(03:34):
of course we're coming off of last the last two
weeks talking about these running backs over and over and
over and over again. And what Jim Ersay said probably
wasn't the smartest thing. You know, probably wasn't the smartest thing.
But if you didn't know anything about Jim Ersay, he's
(03:54):
never really said the smartest thing. ESPN Stephen Holder actually
actually asked if there was a trade request made. He
asked Jonathan Taylor, and Taylor said no. But apparently after
a team meeting, Jonathan Taylor's trade request was met with
(04:17):
this from Jim Mersey. We're not trading Jonathan, end of discussion.
Not now, Not in October. Taylor was eligible for an
extension this summer after his third season in the NFL,
but the Colts, like just about every other team in
the NFL has done with star running backs, they declined
to knock him down. Now, this is an article, by
the way, I'm reading from Jack Bear that's not true.
(04:37):
That's actually not true at all. There have been extensions
after the third year. You want to know which ones
they are? Ezekiel Elliott remember that one? Oh, I got
another one for you, Todd Gurley, how'd that work out?
And of course Christian McCaffrey, who Christian McCaffrey is a
(04:58):
great player, right, great player. But there's a couple things
about Christian McCaffrey that we have to be honest and
point out. As he was traded last year to the
San Francisco forty nine ers. Christian McCaffrey, it's the highest
paid running back in the NFL. His first three years
under his rookie deal, he played every game, all sixteen.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
A year.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
He signs a new deal, and granted he was a
first round pick, so he had they had him under
contract fro up to seven years if they didn't want
to rework his deal. Right, that's the five years of
the contract, two years of franchise tag. He plays three games,
he plays seven games, and then last year, although he
played all seventeen games for two different teams and had
(05:42):
an outstanding season, the Panthers actually got better running the
football when he was traded away at a fraction of
the cost. So this is one of those deals where
we have people agents speaking about things you don't. You
don't need to You don't need to make comments about
(06:05):
what you know, what's smart, what's not smart. You don't
need to make comments about a contract extension. All you
need to say is we want to be a cult.
We want to be a cult for the rest of
our lives. We just want, you know, what the what
the market will bear, what the market will bear. And
this ever present, ever present sends that if a guy
(06:27):
doesn't get what he wants, he can be traded. Two things. One,
this is the first thing, is somebody else has to
be willing to pay him at that market. Maybe there is,
because he's only played three years in the league. Last
year was his first year being injured again, long term
guarantee running back already injured, isn't that likely to help
happen more. But secondly, and most importantly, even if there
is another team who wants to pay him sixteen million
(06:49):
a year and was willing to trade, the Colts don't
have to because we drafted a guy in the second
round and he's achieved. He's been better than what that
valu valuation should have been, and we have them under
contract for this year, year four, at potentially two more
years with no negotiation. We don't have to trade you.
(07:11):
And you can say, well, this is just a football thing.
That's not true. I don't know if you know this
about media contracts, and again some of them are different,
but Buyer you and Jay stut you guys know this
right in media contracts, when they come to an end,
you're technically not allowed to negotiate until a specific window,
(07:34):
and even after if you agree to terms on a
deal with somebody else. Like when I was at ESPN
and I six months out they told me they would
renew me. I got an offer shortly thereafter. That was
a low ball offer, and then it's not until I
think three months out where you could go and actually
shop for your new offer. Then I got a new offer.
(07:56):
Then it was kind of the back and forth competitive thing.
But even after I had agreed to turn to move
to CBS, ESPN had rite a first refusal, they could
have said like, nah, we're good, we want you at
that same we'll pay you the exact same amount, and
you're under there's nothing you can do. Kind of their
own franchise tag. So every business based upon the contract,
(08:21):
based upon the contract that you signed, has different implications
in this one. For the Colts, they don't have to
do anything. You can say, hey, they're bad guys for
not paying him, and he'll lowball him if it's a
franchise tag next year, in a franchise tag the year before,
but they don't have to do anything. O the goodness
of their heart, businesses don't have to do that. Would
(08:42):
you like your running back to be motivated to succeed
in part of it?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Sure, but he's.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Also a free agent next year potentially if they don't
do the franchise tag, so he's not going to play hard.
You don't really have any leverage other than he won't
show up. And the only way to strike down that
leverage is your owner saying, like nap, it doesn't matter
if he holds out the whole time. So I'm not
(09:10):
saying I'm on team Taylor, I'm on team Reality. Team
reality is Hey, look if I got him for one
more year next year, I'm gonna pay him ten. You know,
I'll go to twelve or thirteen for two years, maybe
something partially guaranteed in year three now that's sort of
(09:30):
top of the market. He'll still be very young. He's
twenty four years old, so we're talking next year's twenty five,
then twenty six, twenty seven. Then I'm probably wanting to
be out of that business. But I can also see
a world which you're like, yeah, you're really good. But
the problem with running backs is like the show Heyo
Tani problem, and you're like, wait, what think about this
(09:53):
for a second show Heyo tan He's likely to sign
a deal somewhere five to seven hundred million dollars. The
one issue, the one thing that should hold you back
as a franchise is yes, he does both. But if
you lose him, you lose both. You lose a starting
top of you know, top of the rotation pitcher, and
(10:13):
you lose the best hitter in your lineup. Now, it's
less likely to happen in baseball and less likely to
happen to show hey, because he's going to DH most
of the time anyway, and you know he's already had
Tommy John most guys. Once you're past that, you're past that.
What's the same thing with running backs? We always look at, well,
he can run and he can catch it. Out of
(10:34):
the backfield. Okay, but if you go down now, it's
gonna take two guys, probably maybe three. But those three
guys you can get at a minimum rate, at a fraction.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Of what it costs.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
We are all replaceable, all of us. And it usually
comes out of one big budget. And how do you
fit into that budget? And the last thing I would
say is this. You can piss off a lot of people.
You can piss off a lot of people, but man like,
(11:06):
ticking off your owner is like, that's just not a
way in which you are going to ultimately get your
way in any business, in any business, going directly at
the owner and the owner getting upset is not generally
(11:30):
a way in which anyone sees any success. You have
to speak in bigger terms. You have to talk about
the process. You have to talk about the running market,
running back market. Whatever you do, do not make it
personal to the owner, because the owner owns and I
don't think or say would do this. But you know,
there's the old Al Davis story. He killed Marcus Allen's career.
(11:52):
There was supposedly different reasons, but it's the owner got upset,
and the owner made the edict don't play Marcus Allen.
If the owner doesn't want to pay you, he ain't
gonna pay you anything more than he's got to pay you.
And the second you make it personal, you don't know
how people are going to react. Like Jerry Jones with
the Ezekielly thing. You know he got involved in he
(12:15):
said zeke Wu. But Jerry Jones has got this. He's
just a bleeding heart for so many these players, and
maybe the Zach Martin thing is the first time he's
going to stand up for himself. Jim Mersey is not
Jerry Jones. That's an understatement.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
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Speaker 1 (12:42):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. I just
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Sports Radio. Dan, we'll hear from him in a second.
We have missed him. He had some personal time, plus
(13:04):
he was filling in for other shows well, Covino and Rich.
He and Monci Bolanos co hosted, and of course my
guy John Ramos, whose team came up short after winning
the districts in baseball, still had a great year. And
then and then Jason Stewart is the producer, control and
the whole thing. Bayer, you were, I think doing Coveno
(13:27):
and Rich when we discussed the Sean Payton thing. So
Jase dou you can attest to this, and you know,
social media has my back and we have it on
the old pods whatever where I said, like, you can't
do what he did. It's not right. There's there's no
Nathaniel Hackett wasn't good. He got fired. It was a mess.
This has all been stated, and just because you're right
(13:50):
doesn't mean it's just it's not the thing you do,
especially in professional sports. It's an amateur move in a
professional arena. And I heard from j J. Stuh's like yeah,
he said it's true, Like we want more guys. I
understand that we in the media love it, like dude
say it. Yeah, but I'm telling you in sports like,
(14:13):
you don't do that. You don't do that. Byer, where
were you on Sean Payton's remarks when they came out
last week.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, it's kind of weird because I'm not on the
same page with you. I'm kind of just hanging out.
What I almost feel like is in no man's land
because when he said the initial comments, there were multiple
media members in New Orleans and Denver cover the team
or cover the NFL on a national basis. That's like,
this is Sean Payton. This is typical Sean Payton doing
(14:40):
his thing, knowing exactly what he is saying and taking
the pressure off of Russell Wilson and then putting it
on himself. That was a message that multiple people had said.
And then there was the Friday and I'm using the
air quotes apology because it wasn't an apology. All he
said is that he needed a filter, that he needed
to keep his personal thoughts to him, not that he
(15:00):
was wrong or felt differently about Nathaniel Hackett, but that
he just needed to be careful on what he said.
But I also thought that that was a media play.
I actually agree with Aaron Rodgers in what Rogers said
Peyton was doing in a way to kind of take
some heat off of him, because on the surface, I
thought that he was maybe sticking up for Russell Wilson,
(15:22):
but Rogers points out, it seems like you're more trying
to cover your back end. So I'm kind of hanging
out in this area where I'm with Jay Stewen that
I like that he is saying it, but there were
so many different levels to the reasons why he was
saying it that it turned into an actual game.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Okay, let's listen to what Aaron Rodgers had to say.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Yeah, I love Nathaniel Hackett, and those comments were very
surprising for a coach to do that to another coach.
My love Rat goes deep. You know, we had some
great years together in Green Bay. Captain touch love him
in his He's an incredible family man, incredible dad, and
on the field. You know, he's arguably my favorite coach
(16:05):
I've ever had in the NFL. Just his approach to it,
how he makes it fun, how he cares about the guys,
just how he goes about his business with respect, with leadership,
with honesty with integrity, and it made me feel bad
that someone who's accomplished a lot in the league is
that insecure that they have to take another man down
to set themselves up for some sort of easy fall
(16:28):
if it doesn't go well for that team this year.
I thought it was way out of line, inappropriate, and
I think he needs to keep my coaches names out
of his mouth.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I love the coach's name out of his mouth, obviously,
a little a little tip of the cap, if you will,
to Will Smith and that disaster with the Oscars a
year and a half ago. I'm in line with Aaron Rodgers,
always have been. Obviously, those ties are deep between a
rod and Nathaniel Hackett. Doug Gottlieb show here on Fox
(16:58):
Sports Radio, Mike Sands joint Jess. He writes for The
Athletic and he's released his NFL quarterback tiers this year.
I want to get to that in one second, But first, Mike,
I mean, I think we all know what Sean Payton
was on some level doing, but I can't recall that
happening previously. Like there's usually some amount of camaraderie between
(17:22):
being coaches, especially ones that have been fired. Now, Shawn's
never been fired before, so most other coaches say, you're
only you know, every time you take coaching job, you're
only waiting to be fired. What do you think of
what he originally said and how and if you thought
it was out of line?
Speaker 7 (17:39):
Totally out of line? Doug and I think there's been
fuge before, Okay, Jerry Glenville and Sam Why should way
worse things about each other back in the day. One
of the favorite stories I ever wrote a few years
ago on it. Incredible, but there was a reason for it, right,
Like they had they were rivals, they had you know,
somebody had run up the score on somebody. This is
I mean, what does Sean Payton have against, you know,
(18:00):
Nathaniel Hackett? Right? I think what's happened? Watching Peyton get
such great success with the Saints and it just felt
like a little ego unchecked, you know. And even in
his announcing career, he wasn't really worried he'd give interviews
and disclose information. I remember, he was just maybe he
(18:22):
was about to get the Bronco job. He was disclosing
players he had called on the Broncos during the season,
and just things that normally you'd be careful about. I
think his level of carefulness has gone away. And so
now you come to Denver, you don't have You're not
accountable to anybody. I mean, you're the boss. You can
(18:44):
say whatever you want. I think he's been in a
say whatever I want mode and just got carried away.
And so there's very few people then who would feel
comfortable kind of going back at him. But Rogers is
the perfect guy with all he's accomplished. I mean he
kind of put him in his place in a manner
that most people couldn't do. So I thought Peyton probably
(19:07):
had it coming, and I sort of salute Rogers for
what he said.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Okay, how is Aaron Rodgers viewed?
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Now?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
For people who don't know your quarterback tiers? Is this
just your opinion or do you talk to other people?
Speaker 7 (19:21):
No, there's fifty people in the league that I talked to.
I think we had eight general managers, ten head coaches,
fifteen coordinators, ten outher executives. You know, some quarterback coaches,
other coaches, that sort of stuff. So we put them
into tiers. If you're a Tier one quarterback, you don't
need as much around you to win, right Patrick Mahomes
(19:41):
can have the guy can have a mid or lower
level defense. Special teams can be bad. They can get
rid of Tyreek Hill. He can roll his ankle and
he still carries the team all the way. That's the ultimate.
He's the only unanimous Tier one guy in the league.
So you can go all the way down to a
Tier four player. We don't know enough about to you.
Maybe you started five games, or we know a lot
(20:02):
about you, we don't think you're really a full season starter.
So that's kind of the range. And Rogers has been
a just about unanimous Tier one quarterback every year. This
year he slipped to the bottom. Well, he's fourth out
of five and tier one, it goes Mahomes, Joe Burrow,
Josh Allen, they're all almost unanimous Tier one. Then Rogers
is thirty votes in Tier one twenty and Tier two
(20:25):
Justin Herbert a little below that, rounding out tier one.
I thought the most interesting thing that was pointed out
to me about Rogers is that he's going to play
fourteen games on artificial turf this year, and he played
four last year. I thought that was just interesting, because
you know, he is somebody who's going to turn forty.
This year, there's been a little bit more injuries. He's
(20:47):
had some lower leg stuff, he's had some calf injuries.
That was interesting to me, something that I hadn't really
thought of in projecting whether he's going to make it
through a whole season, you know, in a tough division.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, and people do forget we had the turf, you know,
fourteen percent more injuries, I think is the study that
I saw. And the older you are, the more wear
and tear on your body, and it's it's going to
be fascinating. Where was Jalen Hurts last year?
Speaker 7 (21:14):
Jalen Hurts I believe was twentieth overall, which probably would
have put him, you know, deep into Tier three. And
so he in a short amount of time, I believe
he's gone from thirtieth to twentieth to sixth, So he's
right on the cusp of Tier one. He's the top
of Tier two. I think that's perfect for him because
(21:35):
he probably kind of was approaching that Tier one level
last year. But you know, to really get in there,
usually you've you've got to prove it do it again.
And I think we also need to see a little
bit more of him in the two minute offense. I mean,
that hasn't been something they've really had to do when
they had. They almost got to do it in the
Super Bowl against the Chiefs, but the penalty probably took
(21:56):
him out of that late in the game. And then
you know, he had one at home against Lackington that
was referenced in the column and they were able to
kind of bottle him up when they absolutely had the pass.
So I think that's perfect for him, and he certainly
ascended unlike almost anyway, maybe Josh Allen is somebody who's
been able to do what he's been able to do
over a multi year period going up that high.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, I mean that's really what has to happen, right,
I mean he's got to be able, and this year
loses Shane Steiking, right, they have some new starters. They
had an easy schedule last year, so this is kind
of a prove that last year wasn't an outlier year.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
I love it for him. I think it's a perfect
spot for him, and it's respects what he's done, but
will also taking into account those things. It's been a
great team. They've been great on defense, the great on
the scheme. People know what to do with their sneak package, right,
So now everyone will be geared up for them. They
probably won't be quite as good, schedule, be a little harder,
and he'll have a little bit more adversity and he'll
get a chance to succeed against that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Where's Deshaun Watson?
Speaker 7 (22:56):
So Deshaun Watson is barely hanging on in tier He
went to the bottom of Tier two from the bottom
of tier one. I think if he had looked as
bad as he looked last year for more than the
six games, he might have gone further. It was alarming,
it was concerning, and most people just said, you know,
he had a lot going on, and then it's a
long layoff. It's just a long time to be off.
(23:18):
So that's probably a little bit of a benefit of
the doubt for him in terms of, hey, we know
how good he was athletically. We don't see any reason
why he can't re attain that. But maybe it was
just a little bit of a difficult situation, not you know,
being part of the practice plan as much during the
year and all of that, and now we'll see. I
think it makes Cleveland such a fascinating team, like they
(23:40):
could really be in the mix or if Deshaun Watson
can't get it back, they could really be having a
lot of turnover.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
They could, I mean, but they're not turned over quarterbacks
says he's got you know, three more years completely guarantee.
Mike Sando joins us, you go to the Athletic you
can check out his quarterback tiers. Who will be the lowest.
That's the most surprising to people.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
Now, let me just go through these. So I just
got off for radio in San Francisco. They're wondering why
brock Perdy, who's you know, had as sparkling records in
Tier four? Just need to see more. I think that's
certainly one TUA getting almost all Tier three votes, and
I think even a couple Tier fours, I mean shows
a reflection of the durability, shows the difficulty people have
giving credit and knowing how to assign credit. When you
(24:30):
suddenly have a great situation with a great play caller
and a great wide receivers, I think people are a
little slow. They kind of look at two and say, look,
this is all perfectly choreographed on time. Yeah, he's accurate,
but they're not given him credit for driving that offense.
So if he can do it again this year, like
(24:50):
last the whole year. I bet you he comes in
he could threaten kind of into that Kirk Cousins, you know,
low tier two type of range. But there's probably more
skepticism for him then if you just look at the
statuet right, you might expect.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay, who's the highest. That'll be more surprising.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
Going through this. You know, I've gotten some pushback on
Justin Herbert from some people like, wait a minute, Justin
Herbert's getting Tier one, What the heck has he done?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You know?
Speaker 7 (25:19):
And he's one of those guys that checks all the
boxes when you look at him. The way I sort
of explained it is the last two years, they're twenty eighth.
The Chargers are in combined Defense Special Teams. They have
a nineteen and fifteen record. If you look at the
teams that are below them and defense Special teams, they're
fifty one eighty four and one. So I think you
(25:40):
give that quarterback some credit for driving what success they've had.
But certainly if you look at the other guys in
Tier one, especially Mahomes to some extent Rogers Burrow, they've
probably had a little bit more success in the big games.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, here's a it's interesting. So who gave you the
pushback on Herbert? I do think that it's kind of
like a fan thing, and Andanulacco is like the one guy.
And my point when he signed the big deal last
week was no one who's like an NFL person that
I know even batter than I. They all think he's that.
(26:19):
I thought it was when when you get the pushback,
is that from people who voted or from.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
From who No, it's all this fan you know. I've
always you get so far on the inside of the
stuff when you do these projects and you're talking to
people on the inside. That's all I talked to, So
you can't always predict how someone on the outside is
going to react. There's always one or two things that
gets latched onto from this that's a surprise to me, Like, well,
I didn't know they were going to do that. So
(26:47):
that was some of the Well you can't have what
is justin Herbert want. I've gotten that from I don't
know if it's sports media people, just to my Twitter timeline.
You know, I've gotten some some of that on him,
a little bit of pushback, and I, you know, GoF
I think some people think Goth's a little low. And
I've gotten some pushback on GoF being in Tier three
from some people in the league as well, But seventeen
(27:10):
people put him in Tier two. That's when I've heard,
you know, so can this guy get some credit?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I mean, you know, what do NFL people think about
Justin Fields?
Speaker 7 (27:20):
Well, real skeptical on the ability to what he's going
to become as a passer. You know, I think there's
everyone thinks he's smart enough, and he set the right
head on his shoulders, he's going to work at it,
and of course the incredible athleticism running the ball, but
just you know, in terms of the instincts and feel
for the position and the actucy with the passing, you know,
(27:44):
the hope is that hey, you can follow it just
a Jalen Hurts path. Right, this has been done, and
that we're in an age where it's probably going to
be done more often. You know, in the past ten
years ago, fifteen years ago, Fields might go to some
team and he doesn't learn the system or doesn't do
well in that West Coast offense and he doesn't have
a chance. I think he's got a chance, but there
(28:04):
is some question about you know, whether he can improve
enough in the passing of the football to really elevate
and push and be up to where Hurts is now.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Mike, this is great stuff, obviously, It's what everybody loves
talking about quarterback tears. And you're the guy who every
year does his time, does his duty, does his due diligence.
I really appreciate you joining us.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
It's fun.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Thank you, Mike Sandel join us in The Doug Gottlieb
Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, coming to you from
the tyreg dot Com studios. You know, playing these games
when Dan Byer's not around not as much fun.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So let's get the game time. This is game time
on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Brought to you by Progressive Insurance. PROGRESSA makes buddling easy
and affordable. Get a multi policy discount by come out
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your protection one place buddle and say, Progressive dot Com buyer,
what's the game today, Doug?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
The game today is big Deal, Little Deal, no deal,
and I apologize you're not being available. A few minutes ago,
we had a trade Major League Baseball, the Tampa bay
Rays acquiring pitcher Aaron Savali from the Cleveland Guardians. So
Swally had a great outing yesterday, I believe, but now
on his way to the Tampa Bay Rays. All right,
big deal, little dealer, no deal s and.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
We only report trades at revolve around the Angels on
the show.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Well, then there's gonna be a problem with big Deal,
Little dealer, no deal because we have a couple of
trade deadline questions coming up a little bit later. But
we'll start in the NFL. Big Deal, Little dealer, No deal.
Doug that forty nine ers GM. John Lynch says he
isn't concerned at all that Nick Bosa isn't in campus.
He wants a new contract.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Uh, little deal. Everybody knows Bosa's elite at his position.
Unlike the running back position, it's one that you are
not replaceable. Right, There's just there's a dramatic difference between
Nick Bosa and even his brother. But you know those guys,
(30:16):
and so I'm he's going to get a new deal.
And in all honesty. I don't think they want him
out there. They're not that concerned with him being out there.
It'll get done before camp's over, and he'll be ready
to go. We won the season. Don't think it's a
big deal, just they haven't been able, haven't been able
to get it done to this point.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Big deal, A little dealer no deal. Sticking with the Niners.
That Sam Donald has been getting rave reviews in forty
nine ers camp.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Not a big deal because I mean, finally, as you
guys know, I am the final remaining stockholder in Sam
Donald QB one LLC. Right, Like that's just it's been
a lonely place. But he's been the least he ard
at two different places. Like he's better than Trey Lance,
(31:03):
and it's a really good system and they got a
good offensive line. And yeah, it's not surprising to me
at all.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
All right, big deal, little deal, of no deal. That
the Seahawks' top two running backs are already hurt in camp.
Kenneth Walker, the third, dealing with a groin injury, Zach Sharboney,
the rookie from UCLA, dealing with a shoulder issue.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well, I'll leave this one to you.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
That's a huge deal, Doug, because for some reason, this
team cannot keep running backs.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Healthy ever, like ever, I know, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3 (31:32):
It is? It is nuts, going back to Kurt Warner
blowing out his ACL in nineteen eighty four, Like there's
it is nuts.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
You gotta be careful when you start saying Kurt Warner
because there's a lot of neophytes out there that think
you're talking about Kurt Warner the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, that's their probably idea what you're talking about. But
I remember it got so bad that they brought Marshaun
Lynch back a few years ago. We always thought, like
a vera shod Penny always gets hurt, it's always him.
I don't know. Now it's a thing like it's a
big deal, all right, big deal, A little dealer, no
deal that Eagles fans started to line up at three
point thirty this morning to buy the new throwback gear.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's a big deal. I had no idea there were
that many dummies on earth.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
The Eagles have kind of started this push. Jeffrey Lourie
was the one that they wanted to wear the Kelly
Green and they had petitioned for it years back. And
then now finally has come around. But I think it's
the last of the jersey reveals that we're going to
get this season for well, look, I liked it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I mean it's like one of those the Kelly green
is so ugly. It's cool, I get it. But the
waiting in line for a jersey you can buy online,
I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
You know what.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
You know?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
What I think makes the Kelly Green work. Is the
silver like that?
Speaker 7 (32:48):
It just it.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I think it works like the gray silver that you
have with it. I don't know. I don't know if
it's just because it makes you think of Randall Cunningham
or Reggie White or Jerome Brow. Those were the three
names that that popped up. The other named Fred Barnett,
I think of when I see that Eagles Kelly Green.
But yeah, fans out lining up as it was going
(33:10):
on sale earlier today.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Is there anything you would line up for that you
could later buy online?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
You're right, yeah, you're one hundred percent correct. But to
be able to show up to work today with your
Jalen Hirts throwback jersey, that is priceless. To be able
to walk into the office and chuck, go WHOA, where'd
you get that, Oh I camped out overnight and got it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I think everybody would would like tell you how great
they are and then they go back to the cubic
could be like that idiot was ever three thirty in
the morning, tell me and I got mine?
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You None of you guys ever got like a jersey
or a T shirt that you were just dying to
wear at school right away? Like that was always I
could not.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wear your own football jersey as you remember.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Sure, but like you know, let's just say, all of
a sudden, you got a you know, I'm trying to
think of you know who, Dug gottlieb where back in
the Bobby Yeah, Bobby Earl do jersey comes in the mail?
You couldn't wait to wear that?
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yes, I was like eight at the time, right, I
know you're talking about You're talking about a grown up
going to work when now everything is available at the
touch of button. Get it. Look, I mean the jersey thing.
I'm not really a jersey guy, but I do understand
it on some level for super fans, and I guess,
(34:34):
but waiting in line at three thuring in the morning
in the summer, I I don't that's a.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Cooler then John Jason, you guys ever get excited to
wear no jer I'm not a jersey guy, and I'm
annoyed by the story on many levels. But that payoff
of going to work and somebody and somebody working, Like,
whoa great jersey, dude, That's that's enough to like get
up and stand in line for something that you can purchase.
(34:59):
On one, I'm a Doug on this one. I'm sorry, Dan,
I'm sorry you said that sarcastically that it is not enough.
I feel that Rush is worthwhile. N I never stood
in wine for Rush tickets. John, when that Fernando Ellenzuela
(35:21):
jersey came in, you couldn't wear wait to wear at
the school? Is that true or not?
Speaker 8 (35:25):
You know what I actually wore as a RAMS fan.
I wore my Jack youngblud jersey.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
All right, Jack on top of young Blood.
Speaker 8 (35:33):
It just said young Blood on the back, number eighty five.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
The see.
Speaker 8 (35:38):
But again, like Doug said, I was also like nine
years old, So yeah, all.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Right, I guess I'm just different. Big deal, little dealer.
No deal that the Mets dealt Max Scherzer to the
Rangers over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I think the bigger deal is I didn't know that
I had seen where he had said, Hey, I want
to be in Exis and the Noseday tax and whatever.
But and i'd seen and that makes sense, and I
saw the Verlander comments. But I'll be honestly, I was
like only locked in on Angels trades, and then I
was enjoying the fact that I wasn't paying attention to
sports most of the weekend. You know, the Jonathan Taylor
(36:15):
thing was the only thing I was discussing with friends.
So yeah, that one's a big deal, only because I
literally had no idea.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
The Rangers don't have any effect on the Angels anyway.
That's you know, that's angels of other fish to fry.
A big deal, A little deal of no deal that
Justin Verlander is still a met.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well for now, that's a big deal. But I we
have what till the end until.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
What timemorrow six o'clock Eastern time tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, I don't think I'll be a mat by the
end of the day.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
All right, final question, big deal, A little deal of
no deal that JT. Postin's triple bogie eights on the
Power five eighteenth on the final home whole of the
three M Classic cost him two hundred and sixty thousand
dollars yesterday.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, a cute, big deal.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
He was a long second, just needed a double bogie.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
It's an all time choke job, like one of the
hugest jokes chokes ever, ever, ever. And that's game time.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
This is game time on The Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Come next to The Doug Gotlip Show. We're live attyrack
dot com Studios. Hey, you know that conference out west,
the PAC twelve. How long is that going to be around?
And if it's gone, who's going to deliver the kill shot?
We'll discuss next The Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio
Thanks for listening to the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five
Easter twelve, two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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(00:24):
dot com studios tyrack dot com. We'll let you get there.
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the way tire buying should be welcome in. By the way,
we got a new affiliate in Charlottesville, Virginia on one
O two point nine FM and fourteen fifty AM. GARRETTA.
(00:44):
Klingle's been kind enough as their marketing manager to have
us on. Thanks so much, Wahoo Nation. We do. We'll
cover college football, especially what appears to be we're on
the brink of expansion of the Big twelve and maybe
the Big Ten, and we'll see what happens with the ACC.
So it definitely affects everybody in Charlottesville as well as
(01:06):
the rest of the world of sports. We have football
to get to. We'll get there in one second. Aaron
Rodgers versus Sean Payton will get to Mike Sando's gonna
join us. He's an NFL writer for the Athletic He's
got his quarterback tiers. I'll be interested to see where
his quarterback tiers take us. And then of course we
got a little basketball in the second hour of the show,
(01:26):
as Rick Buker will join us and we'll talk that
conference expansion, conference contraction, maybe conference extinction as well. Remember
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(02:09):
should be, Alright. You know, there's a lot of back
and forth at times between agents, players and teams. Hey,
but this Jonathan Taylor versus Jim Ersay with this thing
took on a whole another level of nastiness over the weekend.
(02:32):
Here's Jim ersay own to the Colts over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
If I die tonight and Jonathan Taylor's the league, no
one's gonna miss us.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
The league goes on.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, you know, we know that the National Football
rolls on. It doesn't matter, you know who who comes
and who goes.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So obviously that didn't sit well. The agent had some
comments for the Colts. There's apparently a trade demand that
was made. There this story out there that Jonathan Taylor
checked in to Colts camp and said he had a
bad back and hurt his back in his own private workouts.
Taylor went on to social media last night and said
(03:11):
never said anything about the back, but he shut down.
He's in a negotiation. Remember he's a second round draft pick,
not a first round pick, so there's no fifth year option.
Excuse me, but there is there is still the franchise
tag two years over for the Colts in the back
of their pocket. And the reports are that in the
contract extension talks he wants sixteen million a year. And
(03:34):
of course we're coming off of last the last two
weeks talking about these running backs over and over and
over and over again. And what Jim Ersay said probably
wasn't the smartest thing. You know, probably wasn't the smartest thing.
But if you didn't know anything about Jim Ersay, he's
(03:54):
never really said the smartest thing. ESPN Stephen Holder actually
actually asked if there was a trade request made. He
asked Jonathan Taylor, and Taylor said no. But apparently after
a team meeting, Jonathan Taylor's trade request was met with
(04:17):
this from Jim Mersey. We're not trading Jonathan, end of discussion.
Not now, Not in October. Taylor was eligible for an
extension this summer after his third season in the NFL,
but the Colts, like just about every other team in
the NFL has done with star running backs, they declined
to knock him down. Now, this is an article, by
the way, I'm reading from Jack Bear that's not true.
(04:37):
That's actually not true at all. There have been extensions
after the third year. You want to know which ones
they are? Ezekiel Elliott remember that one? Oh, I got
another one for you, Todd Gurley, how'd that work out?
And of course Christian McCaffrey, who Christian McCaffrey is a
(04:58):
great player, right, great player. But there's a couple things
about Christian McCaffrey that we have to be honest and
point out. As he was traded last year to the
San Francisco forty nine ers. Christian McCaffrey, it's the highest
paid running back in the NFL. His first three years
under his rookie deal, he played every game, all sixteen.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
A year.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
He signs a new deal, and granted he was a
first round pick, so he had they had him under
contract fro up to seven years if they didn't want
to rework his deal. Right, that's the five years of
the contract, two years of franchise tag. He plays three games,
he plays seven games, and then last year, although he
played all seventeen games for two different teams and had
(05:42):
an outstanding season, the Panthers actually got better running the
football when he was traded away at a fraction of
the cost. So this is one of those deals where
we have people agents speaking about things you don't. You
don't need to You don't need to make comments about
(06:05):
what you know, what's smart, what's not smart. You don't
need to make comments about a contract extension. All you
need to say is we want to be a cult.
We want to be a cult for the rest of
our lives. We just want, you know, what the what
the market will bear, what the market will bear. And
this ever present, ever present sends that if a guy
(06:27):
doesn't get what he wants, he can be traded. Two things. One,
this is the first thing, is somebody else has to
be willing to pay him at that market. Maybe there is,
because he's only played three years in the league. Last
year was his first year being injured again, long term
guarantee running back already injured, isn't that likely to help
happen more. But secondly, and most importantly, even if there
is another team who wants to pay him sixteen million
(06:49):
a year and was willing to trade, the Colts don't
have to because we drafted a guy in the second
round and he's achieved. He's been better than what that
valu valuation should have been, and we have them under
contract for this year, year four, at potentially two more
years with no negotiation. We don't have to trade you.
(07:11):
And you can say, well, this is just a football thing.
That's not true. I don't know if you know this
about media contracts, and again some of them are different,
but Buyer you and Jay stut you guys know this
right in media contracts, when they come to an end,
you're technically not allowed to negotiate until a specific window,
(07:34):
and even after if you agree to terms on a
deal with somebody else. Like when I was at ESPN
and I six months out they told me they would
renew me. I got an offer shortly thereafter. That was
a low ball offer, and then it's not until I
think three months out where you could go and actually
shop for your new offer. Then I got a new offer.
(07:56):
Then it was kind of the back and forth competitive thing.
But even after I had agreed to turn to move
to CBS, ESPN had rite a first refusal, they could
have said like, nah, we're good, we want you at
that same we'll pay you the exact same amount, and
you're under there's nothing you can do. Kind of their
own franchise tag. So every business based upon the contract,
(08:21):
based upon the contract that you signed, has different implications
in this one. For the Colts, they don't have to
do anything. You can say, hey, they're bad guys for
not paying him, and he'll lowball him if it's a
franchise tag next year, in a franchise tag the year before,
but they don't have to do anything. O the goodness
of their heart, businesses don't have to do that. Would
(08:42):
you like your running back to be motivated to succeed
in part of it?
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Sure, but he's.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Also a free agent next year potentially if they don't
do the franchise tag, so he's not going to play hard.
You don't really have any leverage other than he won't
show up. And the only way to strike down that
leverage is your owner saying, like nap, it doesn't matter
if he holds out the whole time. So I'm not
(09:10):
saying I'm on team Taylor, I'm on team Reality. Team
reality is Hey, look if I got him for one
more year next year, I'm gonna pay him ten. You know,
I'll go to twelve or thirteen for two years, maybe
something partially guaranteed in year three now that's sort of
(09:30):
top of the market. He'll still be very young. He's
twenty four years old, so we're talking next year's twenty five,
then twenty six, twenty seven. Then I'm probably wanting to
be out of that business. But I can also see
a world which you're like, yeah, you're really good. But
the problem with running backs is like the show Heyo
Tani problem, and you're like, wait, what think about this
(09:53):
for a second show Heyo tan He's likely to sign
a deal somewhere five to seven hundred million dollars. The
one issue, the one thing that should hold you back
as a franchise is yes, he does both. But if
you lose him, you lose both. You lose a starting
top of you know, top of the rotation pitcher, and
(10:13):
you lose the best hitter in your lineup. Now, it's
less likely to happen in baseball and less likely to
happen to show hey, because he's going to DH most
of the time anyway, and you know he's already had
Tommy John most guys. Once you're past that, you're past that.
What's the same thing with running backs? We always look at, well,
he can run and he can catch it. Out of
(10:34):
the backfield. Okay, but if you go down now, it's
gonna take two guys, probably maybe three. But those three
guys you can get at a minimum rate, at a fraction.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Of what it costs.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
We are all replaceable, all of us. And it usually
comes out of one big budget. And how do you
fit into that budget? And the last thing I would
say is this. You can piss off a lot of people.
You can piss off a lot of people, but man like,
(11:06):
ticking off your owner is like, that's just not a
way in which you are going to ultimately get your
way in any business, in any business, going directly at
the owner and the owner getting upset is not generally
(11:30):
a way in which anyone sees any success. You have
to speak in bigger terms. You have to talk about
the process. You have to talk about the running market,
running back market. Whatever you do, do not make it
personal to the owner, because the owner owns and I
don't think or say would do this. But you know,
there's the old Al Davis story. He killed Marcus Allen's career.
(11:52):
There was supposedly different reasons, but it's the owner got upset,
and the owner made the edict don't play Marcus Allen.
If the owner doesn't want to pay you, he ain't
gonna pay you anything more than he's got to pay you.
And the second you make it personal, you don't know
how people are going to react. Like Jerry Jones with
the Ezekielly thing. You know he got involved in he
(12:15):
said zeke Wu. But Jerry Jones has got this. He's
just a bleeding heart for so many these players, and
maybe the Zach Martin thing is the first time he's
going to stand up for himself. Jim Mersey is not
Jerry Jones. That's an understatement.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. I just
learned to discover credit cards. This is something pretty awesome.
At the end of your first year, they automatically doubled
all the cash back you've earned. That's right, everything you've
earned doubled. Cash back from trips, restaurants all doubled. Seriously,
those see terms. Take it off for yourself at discover
dot com slash match. Doug Gottlieb show here on Fox
Sports Radio. Dan, we'll hear from him in a second.
We have missed him. He had some personal time, plus
(13:04):
he was filling in for other shows well, Covino and Rich.
He and Monci Bolanos co hosted, and of course my
guy John Ramos, whose team came up short after winning
the districts in baseball, still had a great year. And
then and then Jason Stewart is the producer, control and
the whole thing. Bayer, you were, I think doing Coveno
(13:27):
and Rich when we discussed the Sean Payton thing. So
Jase dou you can attest to this, and you know,
social media has my back and we have it on
the old pods whatever where I said, like, you can't
do what he did. It's not right. There's there's no
Nathaniel Hackett wasn't good. He got fired. It was a mess.
This has all been stated, and just because you're right
(13:50):
doesn't mean it's just it's not the thing you do,
especially in professional sports. It's an amateur move in a
professional arena. And I heard from j J. Stuh's like yeah,
he said it's true, Like we want more guys. I
understand that we in the media love it, like dude
say it. Yeah, but I'm telling you in sports like,
(14:13):
you don't do that. You don't do that. Byer, where
were you on Sean Payton's remarks when they came out
last week.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, it's kind of weird because I'm not on the
same page with you. I'm kind of just hanging out.
What I almost feel like is in no man's land
because when he said the initial comments, there were multiple
media members in New Orleans and Denver cover the team
or cover the NFL on a national basis. That's like,
this is Sean Payton. This is typical Sean Payton doing
(14:40):
his thing, knowing exactly what he is saying and taking
the pressure off of Russell Wilson and then putting it
on himself. That was a message that multiple people had said.
And then there was the Friday and I'm using the
air quotes apology because it wasn't an apology. All he
said is that he needed a filter, that he needed
to keep his personal thoughts to him, not that he
(15:00):
was wrong or felt differently about Nathaniel Hackett, but that
he just needed to be careful on what he said.
But I also thought that that was a media play.
I actually agree with Aaron Rodgers in what Rogers said
Peyton was doing in a way to kind of take
some heat off of him, because on the surface, I
thought that he was maybe sticking up for Russell Wilson,
(15:22):
but Rogers points out, it seems like you're more trying
to cover your back end. So I'm kind of hanging
out in this area where I'm with Jay Stewen that
I like that he is saying it, but there were
so many different levels to the reasons why he was
saying it that it turned into an actual game.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Okay, let's listen to what Aaron Rodgers had to say.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Yeah, I love Nathaniel Hackett, and those comments were very
surprising for a coach to do that to another coach.
My love Rat goes deep. You know, we had some
great years together in Green Bay. Captain touch love him
in his He's an incredible family man, incredible dad, and
on the field. You know, he's arguably my favorite coach
(16:05):
I've ever had in the NFL. Just his approach to it,
how he makes it fun, how he cares about the guys,
just how he goes about his business with respect, with leadership,
with honesty with integrity, and it made me feel bad
that someone who's accomplished a lot in the league is
that insecure that they have to take another man down
to set themselves up for some sort of easy fall
(16:28):
if it doesn't go well for that team this year.
I thought it was way out of line, inappropriate, and
I think he needs to keep my coaches names out
of his mouth.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I love the coach's name out of his mouth, obviously,
a little a little tip of the cap, if you will,
to Will Smith and that disaster with the Oscars a
year and a half ago. I'm in line with Aaron Rodgers,
always have been. Obviously, those ties are deep between a
rod and Nathaniel Hackett. Doug Gottlieb show here on Fox
(16:58):
Sports Radio, Mike Sands joint Jess. He writes for The
Athletic and he's released his NFL quarterback tiers this year.
I want to get to that in one second, But first, Mike,
I mean, I think we all know what Sean Payton
was on some level doing, but I can't recall that
happening previously. Like there's usually some amount of camaraderie between
(17:22):
being coaches, especially ones that have been fired. Now, Shawn's
never been fired before, so most other coaches say, you're
only you know, every time you take coaching job, you're
only waiting to be fired. What do you think of
what he originally said and how and if you thought
it was out of line?
Speaker 7 (17:39):
Totally out of line? Doug and I think there's been
fuge before, Okay, Jerry Glenville and Sam Why should way
worse things about each other back in the day. One
of the favorite stories I ever wrote a few years
ago on it. Incredible, but there was a reason for it, right,
Like they had they were rivals, they had you know,
somebody had run up the score on somebody. This is
I mean, what does Sean Payton have against, you know,
(18:00):
Nathaniel Hackett? Right? I think what's happened? Watching Peyton get
such great success with the Saints and it just felt
like a little ego unchecked, you know. And even in
his announcing career, he wasn't really worried he'd give interviews
and disclose information. I remember, he was just maybe he
(18:22):
was about to get the Bronco job. He was disclosing
players he had called on the Broncos during the season,
and just things that normally you'd be careful about. I
think his level of carefulness has gone away. And so
now you come to Denver, you don't have You're not
accountable to anybody. I mean, you're the boss. You can
(18:44):
say whatever you want. I think he's been in a
say whatever I want mode and just got carried away.
And so there's very few people then who would feel
comfortable kind of going back at him. But Rogers is
the perfect guy with all he's accomplished. I mean he
kind of put him in his place in a manner
that most people couldn't do. So I thought Peyton probably
(19:07):
had it coming, and I sort of salute Rogers for
what he said.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Okay, how is Aaron Rodgers viewed?
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Now?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
For people who don't know your quarterback tiers? Is this
just your opinion or do you talk to other people?
Speaker 7 (19:21):
No, there's fifty people in the league that I talked to.
I think we had eight general managers, ten head coaches,
fifteen coordinators, ten outher executives. You know, some quarterback coaches,
other coaches, that sort of stuff. So we put them
into tiers. If you're a Tier one quarterback, you don't
need as much around you to win, right Patrick Mahomes
(19:41):
can have the guy can have a mid or lower
level defense. Special teams can be bad. They can get
rid of Tyreek Hill. He can roll his ankle and
he still carries the team all the way. That's the ultimate.
He's the only unanimous Tier one guy in the league.
So you can go all the way down to a
Tier four player. We don't know enough about to you.
Maybe you started five games, or we know a lot
(20:02):
about you, we don't think you're really a full season starter.
So that's kind of the range. And Rogers has been
a just about unanimous Tier one quarterback every year. This
year he slipped to the bottom. Well, he's fourth out
of five and tier one, it goes Mahomes, Joe Burrow,
Josh Allen, they're all almost unanimous Tier one. Then Rogers
is thirty votes in Tier one twenty and Tier two
(20:25):
Justin Herbert a little below that, rounding out tier one.
I thought the most interesting thing that was pointed out
to me about Rogers is that he's going to play
fourteen games on artificial turf this year, and he played
four last year. I thought that was just interesting, because
you know, he is somebody who's going to turn forty.
This year, there's been a little bit more injuries. He's
(20:47):
had some lower leg stuff, he's had some calf injuries.
That was interesting to me, something that I hadn't really
thought of in projecting whether he's going to make it
through a whole season, you know, in a tough division.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, and people do forget we had the turf, you know,
fourteen percent more injuries, I think is the study that
I saw. And the older you are, the more wear
and tear on your body, and it's it's going to
be fascinating. Where was Jalen Hurts last year?
Speaker 7 (21:14):
Jalen Hurts I believe was twentieth overall, which probably would
have put him, you know, deep into Tier three. And
so he in a short amount of time, I believe
he's gone from thirtieth to twentieth to sixth, So he's
right on the cusp of Tier one. He's the top
of Tier two. I think that's perfect for him because
(21:35):
he probably kind of was approaching that Tier one level
last year. But you know, to really get in there,
usually you've you've got to prove it do it again.
And I think we also need to see a little
bit more of him in the two minute offense. I mean,
that hasn't been something they've really had to do when
they had. They almost got to do it in the
Super Bowl against the Chiefs, but the penalty probably took
(21:56):
him out of that late in the game. And then
you know, he had one at home against Lackington that
was referenced in the column and they were able to
kind of bottle him up when they absolutely had the pass.
So I think that's perfect for him, and he certainly
ascended unlike almost anyway, maybe Josh Allen is somebody who's
been able to do what he's been able to do
over a multi year period going up that high.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, I mean that's really what has to happen, right,
I mean he's got to be able, and this year
loses Shane Steiking, right, they have some new starters. They
had an easy schedule last year, so this is kind
of a prove that last year wasn't an outlier year.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
I love it for him. I think it's a perfect
spot for him, and it's respects what he's done, but
will also taking into account those things. It's been a
great team. They've been great on defense, the great on
the scheme. People know what to do with their sneak package, right,
So now everyone will be geared up for them. They
probably won't be quite as good, schedule, be a little harder,
and he'll have a little bit more adversity and he'll
get a chance to succeed against that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Where's Deshaun Watson?
Speaker 7 (22:56):
So Deshaun Watson is barely hanging on in tier He
went to the bottom of Tier two from the bottom
of tier one. I think if he had looked as
bad as he looked last year for more than the
six games, he might have gone further. It was alarming,
it was concerning, and most people just said, you know,
he had a lot going on, and then it's a
long layoff. It's just a long time to be off.
(23:18):
So that's probably a little bit of a benefit of
the doubt for him in terms of, hey, we know
how good he was athletically. We don't see any reason
why he can't re attain that. But maybe it was
just a little bit of a difficult situation, not you know,
being part of the practice plan as much during the
year and all of that, and now we'll see. I
think it makes Cleveland such a fascinating team, like they
(23:40):
could really be in the mix or if Deshaun Watson
can't get it back, they could really be having a
lot of turnover.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
They could, I mean, but they're not turned over quarterbacks
says he's got you know, three more years completely guarantee.
Mike Sando joins us, you go to the Athletic you
can check out his quarterback tiers. Who will be the lowest.
That's the most surprising to people.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
Now, let me just go through these. So I just
got off for radio in San Francisco. They're wondering why
brock Perdy, who's you know, had as sparkling records in
Tier four? Just need to see more. I think that's
certainly one TUA getting almost all Tier three votes, and
I think even a couple Tier fours, I mean shows
a reflection of the durability, shows the difficulty people have
giving credit and knowing how to assign credit. When you
(24:30):
suddenly have a great situation with a great play caller
and a great wide receivers, I think people are a
little slow. They kind of look at two and say, look,
this is all perfectly choreographed on time. Yeah, he's accurate,
but they're not given him credit for driving that offense.
So if he can do it again this year, like
(24:50):
last the whole year. I bet you he comes in
he could threaten kind of into that Kirk Cousins, you know,
low tier two type of range. But there's probably more
skepticism for him then if you just look at the
statuet right, you might expect.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay, who's the highest. That'll be more surprising.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
Going through this. You know, I've gotten some pushback on
Justin Herbert from some people like, wait a minute, Justin
Herbert's getting Tier one, What the heck has he done?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You know?
Speaker 7 (25:19):
And he's one of those guys that checks all the
boxes when you look at him. The way I sort
of explained it is the last two years, they're twenty eighth.
The Chargers are in combined Defense Special Teams. They have
a nineteen and fifteen record. If you look at the
teams that are below them and defense Special teams, they're
fifty one eighty four and one. So I think you
(25:40):
give that quarterback some credit for driving what success they've had.
But certainly if you look at the other guys in
Tier one, especially Mahomes to some extent Rogers Burrow, they've
probably had a little bit more success in the big games.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, here's a it's interesting. So who gave you the
pushback on Herbert? I do think that it's kind of
like a fan thing, and Andanulacco is like the one guy.
And my point when he signed the big deal last
week was no one who's like an NFL person that
I know even batter than I. They all think he's that.
(26:19):
I thought it was when when you get the pushback,
is that from people who voted or from.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
From who No, it's all this fan you know. I've
always you get so far on the inside of the
stuff when you do these projects and you're talking to
people on the inside. That's all I talked to, So
you can't always predict how someone on the outside is
going to react. There's always one or two things that
gets latched onto from this that's a surprise to me, Like, well,
I didn't know they were going to do that. So
(26:47):
that was some of the Well you can't have what
is justin Herbert want. I've gotten that from I don't
know if it's sports media people, just to my Twitter timeline.
You know, I've gotten some some of that on him,
a little bit of pushback, and I, you know, GoF
I think some people think Goth's a little low. And
I've gotten some pushback on GoF being in Tier three
from some people in the league as well, But seventeen
(27:10):
people put him in Tier two. That's when I've heard,
you know, so can this guy get some credit?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I mean, you know, what do NFL people think about
Justin Fields?
Speaker 7 (27:20):
Well, real skeptical on the ability to what he's going
to become as a passer. You know, I think there's
everyone thinks he's smart enough, and he set the right
head on his shoulders, he's going to work at it,
and of course the incredible athleticism running the ball, but
just you know, in terms of the instincts and feel
for the position and the actucy with the passing, you know,
(27:44):
the hope is that hey, you can follow it just
a Jalen Hurts path. Right, this has been done, and
that we're in an age where it's probably going to
be done more often. You know, in the past ten
years ago, fifteen years ago, Fields might go to some
team and he doesn't learn the system or doesn't do
well in that West Coast offense and he doesn't have
a chance. I think he's got a chance, but there
(28:04):
is some question about you know, whether he can improve
enough in the passing of the football to really elevate
and push and be up to where Hurts is now.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Mike, this is great stuff, obviously, It's what everybody loves
talking about quarterback tears. And you're the guy who every
year does his time, does his duty, does his due diligence.
I really appreciate you joining us.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
It's fun.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Thank you, Mike Sandel join us in The Doug Gottlieb
Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, coming to you from
the tyreg dot Com studios. You know, playing these games
when Dan Byer's not around not as much fun.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So let's get the game time. This is game time
on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Brought to you by Progressive Insurance. PROGRESSA makes buddling easy
and affordable. Get a multi policy discount by come out
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your protection one place buddle and say, Progressive dot Com buyer,
what's the game today, Doug?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
The game today is big Deal, Little Deal, no deal,
and I apologize you're not being available. A few minutes ago,
we had a trade Major League Baseball, the Tampa bay
Rays acquiring pitcher Aaron Savali from the Cleveland Guardians. So
Swally had a great outing yesterday, I believe, but now
on his way to the Tampa Bay Rays. All right,
big deal, little dealer, no deal s and.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
We only report trades at revolve around the Angels on
the show.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Well, then there's gonna be a problem with big Deal,
Little dealer, no deal because we have a couple of
trade deadline questions coming up a little bit later. But
we'll start in the NFL. Big Deal, Little dealer, No deal.
Doug that forty nine ers GM. John Lynch says he
isn't concerned at all that Nick Bosa isn't in campus.
He wants a new contract.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Uh, little deal. Everybody knows Bosa's elite at his position.
Unlike the running back position, it's one that you are
not replaceable. Right, There's just there's a dramatic difference between
Nick Bosa and even his brother. But you know those guys,
(30:16):
and so I'm he's going to get a new deal.
And in all honesty. I don't think they want him
out there. They're not that concerned with him being out there.
It'll get done before camp's over, and he'll be ready
to go. We won the season. Don't think it's a
big deal, just they haven't been able, haven't been able
to get it done to this point.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Big deal, A little dealer no deal. Sticking with the Niners.
That Sam Donald has been getting rave reviews in forty
nine ers camp.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Not a big deal because I mean, finally, as you
guys know, I am the final remaining stockholder in Sam
Donald QB one LLC. Right, Like that's just it's been
a lonely place. But he's been the least he ard
at two different places. Like he's better than Trey Lance,
(31:03):
and it's a really good system and they got a
good offensive line. And yeah, it's not surprising to me
at all.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
All right, big deal, little deal, of no deal. That
the Seahawks' top two running backs are already hurt in camp.
Kenneth Walker, the third, dealing with a groin injury, Zach Sharboney,
the rookie from UCLA, dealing with a shoulder issue.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well, I'll leave this one to you.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
That's a huge deal, Doug, because for some reason, this
team cannot keep running backs.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Healthy ever, like ever, I know, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3 (31:32):
It is? It is nuts, going back to Kurt Warner
blowing out his ACL in nineteen eighty four, Like there's
it is nuts.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
You gotta be careful when you start saying Kurt Warner
because there's a lot of neophytes out there that think
you're talking about Kurt Warner the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, that's their probably idea what you're talking about. But
I remember it got so bad that they brought Marshaun
Lynch back a few years ago. We always thought, like
a vera shod Penny always gets hurt, it's always him.
I don't know. Now it's a thing like it's a
big deal, all right, big deal, A little dealer, no
deal that Eagles fans started to line up at three
point thirty this morning to buy the new throwback gear.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's a big deal. I had no idea there were
that many dummies on earth.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
The Eagles have kind of started this push. Jeffrey Lourie
was the one that they wanted to wear the Kelly
Green and they had petitioned for it years back. And
then now finally has come around. But I think it's
the last of the jersey reveals that we're going to
get this season for well, look, I liked it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I mean it's like one of those the Kelly green
is so ugly. It's cool, I get it. But the
waiting in line for a jersey you can buy online,
I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
You know what.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
You know?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
What I think makes the Kelly Green work. Is the
silver like that?
Speaker 7 (32:48):
It just it.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I think it works like the gray silver that you
have with it. I don't know. I don't know if
it's just because it makes you think of Randall Cunningham
or Reggie White or Jerome Brow. Those were the three
names that that popped up. The other named Fred Barnett,
I think of when I see that Eagles Kelly Green.
But yeah, fans out lining up as it was going
(33:10):
on sale earlier today.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Is there anything you would line up for that you
could later buy online?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
You're right, yeah, you're one hundred percent correct. But to
be able to show up to work today with your
Jalen Hirts throwback jersey, that is priceless. To be able
to walk into the office and chuck, go WHOA, where'd
you get that, Oh I camped out overnight and got it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I think everybody would would like tell you how great
they are and then they go back to the cubic
could be like that idiot was ever three thirty in
the morning, tell me and I got mine?
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You None of you guys ever got like a jersey
or a T shirt that you were just dying to
wear at school right away? Like that was always I
could not.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wear your own football jersey as you remember.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Sure, but like you know, let's just say, all of
a sudden, you got a you know, I'm trying to
think of you know who, Dug gottlieb where back in
the Bobby Yeah, Bobby Earl do jersey comes in the mail?
You couldn't wait to wear that?
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yes, I was like eight at the time, right, I
know you're talking about You're talking about a grown up
going to work when now everything is available at the
touch of button. Get it. Look, I mean the jersey thing.
I'm not really a jersey guy, but I do understand
it on some level for super fans, and I guess,
(34:34):
but waiting in line at three thuring in the morning
in the summer, I I don't that's a.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Cooler then John Jason, you guys ever get excited to
wear no jer I'm not a jersey guy, and I'm
annoyed by the story on many levels. But that payoff
of going to work and somebody and somebody working, Like,
whoa great jersey, dude, That's that's enough to like get
up and stand in line for something that you can purchase.
(34:59):
On one, I'm a Doug on this one. I'm sorry, Dan,
I'm sorry you said that sarcastically that it is not enough.
I feel that Rush is worthwhile. N I never stood
in wine for Rush tickets. John, when that Fernando Ellenzuela
(35:21):
jersey came in, you couldn't wear wait to wear at
the school? Is that true or not?
Speaker 8 (35:25):
You know what I actually wore as a RAMS fan.
I wore my Jack youngblud jersey.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
All right, Jack on top of young Blood.
Speaker 8 (35:33):
It just said young Blood on the back, number eighty five.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
The see.
Speaker 8 (35:38):
But again, like Doug said, I was also like nine
years old, So yeah, all.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Right, I guess I'm just different. Big deal, little dealer.
No deal that the Mets dealt Max Scherzer to the
Rangers over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I think the bigger deal is I didn't know that
I had seen where he had said, Hey, I want
to be in Exis and the Noseday tax and whatever.
But and i'd seen and that makes sense, and I
saw the Verlander comments. But I'll be honestly, I was
like only locked in on Angels trades, and then I
was enjoying the fact that I wasn't paying attention to
sports most of the weekend. You know, the Jonathan Taylor
(36:15):
thing was the only thing I was discussing with friends.
So yeah, that one's a big deal, only because I
literally had no idea.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
The Rangers don't have any effect on the Angels anyway.
That's you know, that's angels of other fish to fry.
A big deal, A little deal of no deal that
Justin Verlander is still a met.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well for now, that's a big deal. But I we
have what till the end until.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
What timemorrow six o'clock Eastern time tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, I don't think I'll be a mat by the
end of the day.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
All right, final question, big deal, A little deal of
no deal that JT. Postin's triple bogie eights on the
Power five eighteenth on the final home whole of the
three M Classic cost him two hundred and sixty thousand
dollars yesterday.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, a cute, big deal.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
He was a long second, just needed a double bogie.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
It's an all time choke job, like one of the
hugest jokes chokes ever, ever, ever. And that's game time.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
This is game time on The Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Come next to The Doug Gotlip Show. We're live attyrack
dot com Studios. Hey, you know that conference out west,
the PAC twelve. How long is that going to be around?
And if it's gone, who's going to deliver the kill shot?
We'll discuss next The Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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