April 16, 2024 • 51 mins
On this edition of The Best of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug and Dan Beyer discuss whether or not the NBA Play-In games are actually considered the playoffs. Doug and Iowa Sam debate whether or not Caitlin Clark is similar to Jimmer Fredette.
NBA reporter for The Athletic Joe Vardon joins Doug to break down the NBA play-in games and to talk about the US National team.
Doug and the crew talk about the comparison between Caitlin Clark and Tim Tebow in how much of an impact they made on their college sports.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at
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on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR, What Up America,
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Ah, the whole cruise here,
(00:26):
my guy Dan Bayer, Jay stew And of course I
was Sam who informed me he has we're looking for
tickets for sparks Fever. No, he doesn't have sparks Fever.
The team's name is the Fever. He doesn't have sparks Fever,
although it's probably a disease coming out of some third
world country. Welcome, It's Doug Gottlieb Show broadcast live from
(00:49):
the tyrat dot com studios. Tyrat dot com will be
get their unmatched selection fast free shipping, free road as protection,
over ten thousand recommended sallars tyrat dot com. It's the
way that tire buying should be. Okay, I have a
question for you, is it does relate to baseball? And
I've often said this, I don't believe the baseball playoffs
(01:11):
begin until the play in games have concluded. Right, playoffs
multiple So do the NBA playoffs start or is this
the play in tournament? I don't think you're in the
playoffs if you play today. I don't think you're in
the playoffs and play today. And the interesting part about
it is, in the best case scenario, it's the greatest
(01:33):
thing ever for the NBA because regardless of where they finished,
the Warriors would go to the playoffs and the Lakers
would go to the playoffs, which I still think is
the most likely outcome, the most likely outcome of the
of the Western Conference play in tournament at the Lakers.
We discussed this yesterday. Would they, in their heart of hearts,
(01:53):
prefer to get the eight seed to play the Thunder? Yes,
but they can't risk it and do gamesmanship and lose tonight.
They're not good enough to just show up and beat
the Kings or the Warriors in the second game of
the play in So I think the Lakers win, and
then I think the Warriors win this one, then beat
the Pelicans, and then everybody is happy. Because in truth,
(02:17):
the reason I believe baseball expanded there play in playoffs.
Whatever was what we're seeing play out in the NBA,
because Baseball's playoffs have been a ratings disaster. When the
Yankees and Red Sox are not both involved, and if
neither involved, it's really a mess. Like last year, the
(02:40):
same is true for the NBA. You may have Lebron fatigue,
but you definitely want Lebron in the playoffs, even root
against him. You may have Steph and Warrior and Draymond fatigue,
but you still want them in the playoffs. So we
start to play in tournament. It's not the playoffs. I've
pretty much laid out how I think it's going to
(03:01):
work out. We'll discuss more as the show rolls on.
John Middlecoff's going to join us in twenty minutes. We'll
get you ready for the upcoming NFL draft, Yes, dambire.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Before you move on for the playing games, for your
scenario that plays out. I'm just because we had somebody
on last week that you know, you pointed out the
standings and they said, well, hey, if the season was
there was no play in tournament, you wouldn't have Golden
State here with an opportunity to make a push or
they wouldn't even be in the bracket. They would be
(03:37):
in the ten seed. And I think on paper, in
this NBA day and age that we live, that is correct,
but I don't think it's an accurate portrayal of how
teams now play towards the end of the season. The
only team that actually really had urgency was Golden State
(03:57):
because there was at one point where they were battling
with the Rockets to make sure they were in the
ten spot, and then they had a game against the Rockets,
kicked the crap out of them, and the rest was
pretty much history and eliminated any chance that Houston had,
And like so many teams just kind of cruise along
and throw in the towel. I just wonder in all
(04:18):
of this of you know, we look at tonight and
we say, yeah, it's great for the NBA they have
Steph Curry and Lebron James in these games. If you
didn't have the play in tournament, don't you think the
urgency towards the end of the regular season would have
been much different? Yeah, of course, yeah, And that's the
you know, that's the other part of it is, wouldn't
it be great to see Lebron James and Steph Curry
(04:40):
and in Zion and all these teams battling it out
going down the stretch where the last two weeks are worthy.
Instead of being like, all right, well, we may be
the sixth seed, but if we're the seven, at least
we're in. We don't want to do anything foolish. We
think we can win the seventh seed because I went
and looked back at the play in stand or the
NBA standing since the playing tournament game more than half
(05:00):
of the time, Doug, there's a sizeable gap between the
tenth seed and the eleventh seed. Yes, and I don't
think that's great for basketball, because we know certain teams
just throw in the towel. But I don't think that
there's as much urgency. Wasn't every year. Sometimes it was
a game that was a difference, but more often than not,
you had a sizeable gap because there really wasn't any urgency.
(05:21):
And I just I don't like, tonight is great, and
tomorrow will be great, and maybe Thursday and Friday will
be good as well, But are we sacrificing the final
two weeks of the season just so we can have
these great nights in the playoffs. I don't know if
it's necessarily.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I think the final two weeks of the season were actually okay.
I think it's you know, it's it's the unspoken part
which the NBA is trying to address. And the truth is,
like with the play in tournament, I assume you with
the in season tournament it's trying to address because I
actually think your point would be even stronger, and I'll
(05:57):
help make it stronger. Is it's not just less would
you have morey throughout the year? Right? Because everybody was
doing what we did in college, which is like you
don't pay attention to the assignments and the regular part
of this, and then all of a sudden the finals
come up. You're like, oh, I got a bone up.
You're in every study session, you go and see the
professor and you're like, look, dude, had you just been
doing this the whole year, you wouldn't need the final
(06:20):
to help change your final grade. You wouldn't have to
call the professor afterwards and beg for a little bit
extra credit had you just been doing this. So you're right,
it only points out if we didn't have this with
the Warriors, with the Lakers, where they have spent more
time and had more detail and given guys less day off,
less days off, so they wouldn't be in this. But
(06:41):
the difference is I think if you look, if you
predate the play in tournament, the ninth spot, there was
a gap there oftentimes and those teams, if they weren't in,
they were all tanking. They were all tanking. And now
you have fewer teams tanking and fewer time to decide
you want a tank. So I think that's really still
what's at work. Is it better modestly, it's the law,
(07:05):
like what you're pointing out is the law of unintended consequences.
The intended consequence of this whole thing is to make
more teams competitive at the end of the year. So
it's not just ten, it's eleven, twelve, thirteen. Think they
got a chance and they haven't gotten there. Baseball has
gotten there. Baseball is way more competitive at the back end.
But I think that part has worked because you did
(07:28):
have the Suns, had to put a lot more effort
into it, had to play those final couple of games
so that he got out of the play in tournament.
So I think it's not we focus on seven through ten,
but five and six are also important, and then eleven
and twelve are kind of important. So are there scenarios
that could make this better? Yes, absolutely yes, And there's
(07:50):
ways in which you can make the nd season tournament
more important. Is if based upon your results in the
inca's tournament, it creates some sort of ongoing score for
the regular for the rest of the regular season. But
it's all telling us what we all know to be true,
which is nobody cares about the regular season, and teams
are just now going like, all right, now, we'll figure
it out. And you know, the Warriors and Lakers seem
(08:12):
to get it going a little bit late, and now
the Lakers are in this position where they don't really
want to be the seventh seed. They want to be
the eight, but they can't risk it tonight. So I
do think that's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Seas get degrees, right, that's the old series, yea, yeah, yes,
yeah yeah, and both these teams got seas. I also
think that the timing of where the NBA is at
this point, meeting Lebron's age, the Trio and golden state
of where they are, that that plays a part into it.
If this was if this was in the late twenty
(08:43):
teams and we were having this where Golden State is
dominant at that time. I think we look at the
play in tournament. I look at the play in tournament
for what we had last year, especially that the when
the you know, Lakers ended up beating Minnesota. But then
you had Oklahoma City when their game, so that was
a shocker. And then they have this fired up matchup
against the Timberwolves and the Timberwolves win it and get momentum.
(09:07):
And I looked at that as like a springboard, like okay,
look out for Oklahoma City, And what a springboard it was,
because now they're the number one overall seed in the
Western Conference. Like we knew, like you know, good things
were on the horizon. It was like when the I
think it was the Clippers a few years back, ended
up going for it and when they they didn't have to,
or you could have just punted on the season. Instead
they went for the eight seed and it paid off
(09:27):
in the long run. Yeah, I think there's more value
in that than there is in giving a safety net
or a lifeline to aging veterans who don't put that
much into the regular shit.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
No, I get it. But the other part too, It
is it's a lot like baseball in that in that
play in game, you use your ace, so you lose
your ace for the next series. Right in this, like
I think for the Lakers, one game let alone too
and remember these games are played at a much higher level.
Does that Does it wear you out for the end
(10:00):
of a series?
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Does it wear you down? I don't think it. I
mean obviously didn't last year with the Lakers getting in
and then and then making a little bit of a run.
But it does increase every game, increases the risk of
injury when you have older players, and it does potentially
take time away from you. And for the Warriors, every
game leads you closer and closer to the inevitable Draymond
Green blow up in the suspension right like you can
(10:23):
almost set your watch to it. It's going to happen.
It's just a question of when it When it happened.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I will say this, and I think that it's important
tonight to look at this the play in memories that
I have yeap are been blowouts too, Yes, yes there
have been, but there are also been We mentioned Oklahoma
City last year, John Morant's arrival. None of it has
been remember what Lebron did in that playing game? Remember what?
Like I don't even I don't even remember. The stories
(10:49):
that have come from this have been about teams who
are trying to make that next level or to become
a playoff team instead of just you know, allowing teams
reason the slack off.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That's all Stug gottlab Show here on Fox Sports Tradio. Okay,
I have a question for you. Okay, Sam is mister
Iowa in case she didn't know, he's literally mister Iowa.
He's more Iowa than the Iowa Caucasus, right, Iowa your Caucasus. Anyway,
last night, Caitlyn Clark gets drafted and the ladies looked amazing,
(11:25):
and there was a ton of attention given, and we
did do the thing where we pretended like we cared
about the other draft picks. Right, but the truth is,
so here's my belief in it. Right, there's three kind
of three possible Caitlin Clark effects. Does she continue to
(11:46):
get garner the attention that she has gotten. Does that
attention only follow her? Does it follow the entire league?
Does it follow all of women's basketball? And look, here's
what's missing. Here's what's missing we have to recognize is
(12:09):
the power of college sports. Right if she plays for
anybody other than Iowa, I'm not sure the response is
the same. I'm just not because Iowa. I've told you this.
Iowa kind of speaks to us. Feels down home, feels
like regular girls, you know, feels like a program that
I had no idea they'd been good, that Lisa Bluter
(12:29):
been this good this long. Look at her record, she's
been great. Brings attention like, oh, it's just a solid program.
Whereas it feels like whatever you whatever your perception is
of the SEC, it just feels like and there's nothing
nefarious at work. They're not doing anything illegal, but just
feels like, hey, we're gonna load up, go get a
famous coach, go get famous players, throw a bunch of
(12:51):
money at him, and we're gonna win on based upon
that fame. Like all of that, The juxtaposition of the
two really works. Of course, angel Rees being black and
her being white. I think it works. I think the
whole story is interesting. But now you take away, did
anyone really know that the Indiana team was called the
Fever until the last couple of days no, because there's
(13:14):
no like historical, oh rivalry or name recognition. So you
take away any of the brand recognition other than the WNBA,
which you know exists, you don't know anything else about it.
No one knows who the coach of the Fever is,
No one knows who any of the players the Fever are.
There's no following nationally. Obviously locally they've done a good job.
(13:34):
They had ten thousand people in the arena to watch
for be drafted last night. And the reality is, I'm
not sure there's going to be immediate rivals as much
as rivals with the elite players in the league. So
do we think there's a carryover because remember there's a
month between now and then and now in their first game,
(13:57):
their first game is going to be played when the
NBA playoffs are in full swing. Plus the weather starts
to be warm and fewer people start to watch TV,
and those built in rivalries like they they don't cease
to exist, but they're harder to create big games because
the games are happening all the time. Jaycedu, what do
(14:20):
you think her first year is like? Remember, and I
pointed this out that I know WNBA ratings have been up.
Remember this year, they're going to have to take a
break mid season because of the Olympics, and then when
she's on the Olympic team, she will not be the
best player. She probably will not start, which I don't
know what that creates for us in terms of our
(14:41):
expectations and our appreciation of her. What do you think
happens our first year in the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I let's see.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I think there's going to be an initial excitement. And
you know, we're broadcasting, we're broad casting, We're relating to
the common sports fan. I'm not talking about WNBA fans here,
I'm talking about the common person me. There's going to
be initial interest. We'll pay attention, we'll talk about it
on the show. Then the NBA playoffs will over, will
(15:08):
drown it out. At the end of the NBA playoffs,
we're all going to check in to see if Kaitlyn
Clark is any good, if she's above average to average.
Maybe we tune into a couple of her games and
that lasts throughout the season, and I don't think they're
a playoff team, and then it'll just go back to
being the WNBA. Caitlin Clark was just kind of an
average player in this league, and she was a one
(15:30):
off as an Iowa basketball player. That's what this is
going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Tim Tebow, Tim Tebo, Tim Tebow or Jimmer Furdett. I
think she's better than Tebow and better than Fordet. I
think she'll be really good. Do I think she'll be
the best player in the league. I do not.
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Can I just add something, Jimmer Fredett was not an
efficient scorer. He shot a lot and his team's never
went far in the NCAA tournament. She's the greatest scorer
in the history of NCAA if you want to count
both men and women.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
She's way more than a Jimmer for debt.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
I think that's almost sick a disrespect to compare her
to for debt. Yes, they both shoot a lot, but
she's just like a way better basketball player than Jimmer
for debt, and he's playing in China. I mean, she's
she's still going to be like one of the premier
players in the world.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
I think about the last three quarters of the game
against South Carolina. I think about that that As her
WNBA career, she made some shots but was largely marginalized
by bigger and better players.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Sure, but she's still opened with eighteen points, and she
can adjust her So I said the last three quarters right, right,
But she still can't. You can't exclude the first quarter
where she there will also be better players around her. Absolutely,
she's got Boston, She's got they've been loading up. They've
been loading up high picks on.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
The By the way, Jimmer Fordet's senior year at BYU,
he shot forty from three. That's not inefficient, five from field,
that's not an efficient ninety from the line, and he
averaged twenty nine points a game and four and a
half the sister game.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I just remember him shooting a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, and I remember her shooting a lot too. What
were her stats better than his? Were they?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Okay? So what what did she shoot from the field?
Speaker 6 (17:12):
I believe she shot higher than forty five? Okay, But again,
his he never he never took an average team deep
into the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
She shot thirty seven point thirty eight from three. That's
a percentage point lower. She shot forty five from the field.
It's the exact same percentage he shot. She averaged thirty
one a game, and she averaged nine assists. To get right,
So she averaged twice the mant of assists.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
She also almost Yeah, she's.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Twice number of assists. Right if you remember the reason
his team didn't go far in the tournament, Do you
remember what happened? No, His star center Brandon Davies got
suspended for the team for an honor code violation. He
had sex I know, I know, and with the woman
he eventually he is married to now and has kids
with Noway, she was a volleyball player now, So yes,
(18:05):
I'm you're making the argument against him, which is the
same argument that Jay Williams made against her, which is
kind of ridiculous. I agree with you. Winning and averaging
nine assists a game is amazing what she's been able
to do. Okay, but let's not do the I'm gonna
talk ish about jim or Furdett, which is not the
(18:27):
you said he was inefficient. His efficiency numbers are exactly
the same as hers, matter of fact, slightly better from three.
So just go like my bad, I remember it differently.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Look at her one, look at her career, and I
what she probably was.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Say no, no, no, no, just start with my bad. I
misremembered it. I didn't remember it. I just gave you
the stats. There is no argue. The thing about stats is,
here's how they work. There is no argument with them. Okay,
I'm listening.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Great, No, no, give me by a percentage point. No, no, no, no,
it's the bare Doug. I'm not going to apologize if
you're not.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Apologizing a meeting that you're wrong. Sure, so that's what
you do. This is a big boy stuff. Hey, my bad,
I was wrong.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
You said it? No, no, no, Doug, what do you
what will you bump back with?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Nirvana's no apologies coming back?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Don't have to apologize, you have to go my bad,
I had it wrong.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I remember him being remembered. Yeah, I misremembered.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Okay, fair enough. If you want to misremember, you're good.
It's Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. So, Dan,
what do you think happens? What do you think our
first year is?
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Like?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think that it's I think that it's great, and
I think that I don't know how you talked about
the break with the Olympics in an All of their
schedule goes once football season takes over. It's over. Yes, yep,
there'll be people watching. Maybe the ratings will be higher
than what they were. But she's really filled in an
enormous gap of our attention once football ended.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
No question, I mean really, As I said, I think
it's more an indictment on the men's game than I
than I do on anything else. But it also shows,
you know, what an interesting personal interest story this is.
I just don't know when that wears out? When does that?
When is like I'm good, I'm good, Like we don't.
We still don't follow Jessica. That fell down a well
and it was all apologies by Nirvana. As I've been
(20:30):
getting feedback from my buddies, I'm so sorry, Sam o, Sam,
you're good. Sam got a little hot there when he
got pressed to say my bad. It's not it's not that.
What's that? What are the kids saying nowadays? It's not
that deep, not that deep.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Yeah, I'm good, I'm good. Papa Roach did no apologies,
roche Papa Roach. Well, that's what it was, Papa Roach.
I can't name a Papa Roach song.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
No apologies there.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I'm gonna apologize for not knowing.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I will apologize as well for not knowing that. That's
my forgetting it wrong.
Speaker 8 (21:05):
This is the best of the done dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Radio stug Otlib Show, Fox Sports Radio. So we established
this is not the playoffs, it's to play in right,
and yesterday we had a little bit of this discussion,
but let's continue it, which is we all agree the
Lakers are underdogs tonight, and they blew out the Pelicans Sunday.
(21:32):
It's now Tuesday. They're playing the same team in the
same town with obviously a lot more at stake. But
I don't know, like, is there that much more at stake.
I had the Pelicans one Sunday, they wouldn't be playing today,
so there was obviously a lot of steak. And if
you lose today, you still get to play another playing
game over the against the winner of the Kings and
(21:55):
the Warriors. I'm into it. I like it. I like
the playing series. I needed a bit of like I
need it every time I turned on an NBA game
for somebody to explain to me all the different factors
in all the different seeds. I do get it. But
to me, if it's your Lakers, like you can't you
(22:16):
may if they lose tonight, there will be people that say, well,
you know, they just they want to play the thunder no,
they don't. They want to win tonight. They want no
part of an elimination game, likely against the Warriors, no
matter how much they dominate the Warriors last year in
the playoffs. You want no part of that. Steph and
(22:36):
Clay start hitting shots, and there's nothing you can do.
You cannot keep up with that volume. You keep up
with that volume, you know? And also interesting is the
did you know that Lebron James finished with a higher
three point shooting percentage than Steph Curry? That said, first
(22:57):
of all, volume obviously is like in half, But does
anybody believe that who would you rather give an open
three point or two in a playing game? Lebron or Steph?
And nobody would answer Lebron, Nobody would answer to Steph curR.
You'd rather get leave moment, Joe Varden joins us. He
covers the entire league for the Athletic and Joe, let's
(23:21):
start with the Lakers tonight. You know there are some
that are like, hey, they'd be better off losing this
game so they could win the next playing game and
then play the Thunder. But they don't want to play
two games that important, that close together, regardless of how
good the matchup is they don't they have to win
a night.
Speaker 7 (23:38):
I think they want to. I think they have pushed
the Pelicans around all year, and I just get this sense,
you know, I mean, somebody a caller could jump on
Sam wrong. I just I've been around Lebron a lot
over his career, and I do not recall him losing
games to try to manipulate the matchup. He has lived
(24:02):
by the sort of motto just get me in the tournament.
This is the easiest way to get in the tournament.
Win tonight, get the rest, and you know, then you know,
let's the let's the chips fall. I mean, there's that
old cliche. It's not a cliche, but it's like he's
not playing to win a round. You know, he's trying
(24:23):
to win a title. And it's gonna be tough, you know.
I mean, no one's gonna pick the Lakers to do that.
They no one would pick them to upset Denver. But
if you, if you're good enough, if that's your goal,
win it all, then I don't I don't think you
lose games to try to manipulate the brackets.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yes, but last year they got the Grizzlies without their
big guys, you know, and I you know, I'm guessing
Murray will be back and it'll be fine. But this
is a matchup that I mean, they couldn't play d'An
Angel Russell in the playoffs last year against him. I
just I don't see how that matchup gets better for
the Lakers, right.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
I mean, you know, I think we're all picking Denver
in Boston Finals, you know, for a reason. And and
I mean, you know, the Denver has the best starting
five in the league or close and probably the m
v P and the reigning champs. And yeah, I mean
those are matchup problems. I mean, Jokis is always a
(25:24):
matchup problem for a d But again, I just I
don't see the Lakers in that mindset of of dodging
and losing on purpose. I just don't. I just don't
see it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
How much of the Warriors have left in the tank?
Speaker 7 (25:43):
Boy, Doug, that's a great question. If you mean, if
you mean, like, is the dynasty over? I think it is.
I just think too many pieces are are too far gone.
And I just I didn't see anything this year in
(26:05):
their best of times that told me they were close.
And I guess they make a major trade or something
this summer. Then I think that is like a restart,
but that doesn't count. I just think this group, this
nucleus has run its course. Could they get out of
the plane. Sure, you know, and then we'll be talking
about that old veteran experience level issue in the playoffs
(26:29):
and you know how that impacts the thunder and you
know we'll be saying the same thing for Minnesota too.
But you know, long term, yeah, I think I think
we've seen the end of the Curry Draymond Clay dynasty.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
What Joe Varden joining us on the Doug Gotlib Show
here on Fox Sports. Ready he covers the NBA for
the athletic Uh, what are you hearing about Joel Embiid
and his availability?
Speaker 9 (26:59):
Well, I think yeah, I think he's going to be
able to play. I mean, you know, by all accounts,
what happened on Sunday was precautionary. You know, you take
in who they were playing, uh, and just the fact
that even with a win.
Speaker 7 (27:18):
On on on Sunday, the Sixers still had too many
other things that had to happen to get out of
the play in and obviously they smashed the nets anyway.
So so I think you know, I think there's always
going to be a little bit of concern. I mean,
you know, one of my big things is is USA basketball.
That's one of my beats, and you know, Joel is
(27:38):
on the team, and I just think, you know, that's awesome.
But at the same time, like this is incredibly early
to be to be picking that team when Joel's injury
injury history is what it is, especially once he gets
into the playoffs, what has typically happened to him. So yeah,
so there's always going to be concerned. But but I
(27:59):
do expect to well to play and tomorrow, Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Then there's another knee injury. And you mentioned the potential MVP.
I think Luca's got a great shot to win MVP.
They're going to take on the Clippers, and we don't
know about Kawhi Leonard's knee. What's his status for their series?
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Yeah, you know what, I'm actually hearing conflicting things.
Speaker 9 (28:23):
Out of l A.
Speaker 7 (28:23):
You know, I'm hearing that he's pushing the play and
they think he will play. And then I've also heard
a little bit more skepticism there. I do think that
his knee situation is why he is not yet the
twelfth man for for Team USA. I think, you know,
the good news is I don't have the breadth the
(28:45):
schedule in front of me, but you know, they either
play Saturday or Sunday. There's still time. But yeah, I
mean there's certainly concern in LA with with regards to
Kawhi's knee.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
So you you do, who do you vote for for VP?
Speaker 7 (29:01):
Thank you? I just did that. I thought about this
long and hard. I at one time had all three
guys at number one. I ended up with Jokic ahead
of Luca, with Shay third. Shaye just kind of fell
off there at the end. He's now tied for the
league lead and steals. He also was the leader on
(29:25):
the youngest team ever to to to get a one
seed in the NBA. So that was a hard vote,
really hard. Luca's numbers are out rageous how good he is,
but fifth place hurt for me in the end. And
you know, Jokich's like dominance all over the court, and
(29:46):
he's he's really not He's people say he's not a
two way player, but I don't even know if I
buy that. At times, like just kind of watching him
play and the way he moves, So that That's how
I went. But I mean we had three awesome, awesome
candidates at the top, and then I'll tell you Number
four for me was Brunton. What he's done with the
(30:07):
Knicks nothing short of heroic. And then I had JANNISTI.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Why is Brunson not on the livery team?
Speaker 7 (30:14):
Well, we still have an open spot. We'll see what
happens there. But when you have Steph Curry and then
you have Drew Holliday, who plays the role that you
would want Jalen to play, then you look at who
else is on the team.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
You know, I mean Haliburton. Pick Haliburton ahead of ahead
of Brunson as hal Burton's a better shooter? Is that
the idea?
Speaker 7 (30:40):
He's faster, Uh, he gets rid of the ball quicker.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
He does something that nobody else on the team really does,
which is what you know, Uh, run the break lead
and transition.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Doesn't you know, if the ball is in his hands,
it doesn't need to stay there. He gets rid of
it super quick. Jalen spent a lot of time last
year with USA dominating the ball. And then you know
they also have Booker, they also have Edwards, you know,
and then they also have Tatum Durant. So they it's
just it's harder to take another guard there in a
(31:17):
in a tournament where size is paramount.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
No, I get it.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I mean, but but if it's Brunson for uh, you know,
is Brunson for Haliburton, I don't. I have no question.
I wouldn't. There's there in no world would I take
Tyrese Haliburton if I want to win ahead of Jalen Brunson. None.
I disagree with whoever made that selection, regardless of how
much the ball I know it's new, regards how much
(31:43):
the ball stops with with with with Brunson. Okay, when
we get to the actual playoffs, who who of these
eight teams? Is what four are going to be playing?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (31:57):
The final four? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
No, no, no, no of the of the playing Okay,
So you got Pels, Lakers, Warriors, Kings, and then you
have what Sixers, Hawks, Bulls. Who's the fourth team I'm forgetting?
Forgetting somebody else? Heat, Heat, SOT Heat, Sixers and who.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
Yeah, I'm going I like the Heat not to win tomorrow,
but to win the play in finale. So I like Sixers, Heat,
and I like Lakers tonight, and I like the Warriors
getting through and in as the as the overall.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Eats, I shall see Joe great stuff. You can read
his work in The Athletic download that or log in now,
get a subscription for it. Joe awesome stuff. Enjoy the playoffs.
We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 7 (32:48):
Okay, thanks Doug.
Speaker 8 (32:49):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsportsradio dot
com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Oh what up with you?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Doug gottlib Show, Foxsports Radio? Oh man? I love the
dynamic we have growing here.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
We'll get to that in a Second's Doug Gotleep Show
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A reminder after the show, we have a podcast only hour. Okay,
it's called in the bonus. So you get done. You
want to download this podcast? Great? You want to download uh,
the podcast only version great do that. Just type in
(33:56):
Doug Gotlieberver. We download podcast, make sure you subscribe, review
all that different stuff. I want to talk about Pat Mahomes,
but I guess it's kind of evergreen right where he
was somebody called him the greatest of all time and
he was like, I'm not the greatest of all time
sort of thing, which I truly love. You know, it's
(34:20):
the you can't give yourself a nickname, you can't call
yourself a grace of all time. Let everybody else say
that for you. So the way it works on our
show is we get done. Sometimes we'll have a little
bit of work to do. And I want to talk
about this quote, which is from Time magazine to Time
magazine still produce people that does it still have an
actual like magazine.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
They still have a magazine on the on all the
magazine stands across the country.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
They have magazine stands at the airport. Jinks who can't talk?
I said, Jinks. Neither of them can talk right and
can't talk, I said, Jenks, you said some of at
the same time, and that right, Dan Byrus and the Heather,
Yes has to be there's something you have to there's
(35:06):
some sort of phrase which unlocks your ability to talk again.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
When you do the jings, you got to say, like
one of them has to say, buy me a coke, right.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I think so, yeah, I think so. Anyway, we'll get
back to the Pat Mahomes thing. I still think that
the so here's what happened. Okay, we're having a discussion
about Caitlin Clark, and believe it or not, like this
is I I kind of think we've talked about a
(35:35):
topic that everybody's talking about. I hate when we force
things and you get this time of year, we're like,
there's like, this is a real topic. I think a
lot of most people are full of crap, like, oh,
I like watching women's basketball way more than the NBA.
Like no, you don't, No, you don't, you don't. There's
(35:56):
things that may turn you off about the NBA, and
there's things about the but you haven't watched the WNBA game,
so you have no idea what it looks like, and
when you do, you'd be like that was something.
Speaker 7 (36:07):
Now.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
The other part to it, and this is a real thing,
is we do not always watch the better sport. What
I mean is like G League basketball is better than
college basketball in terms of the overall talent on the floor,
and sometimes the competitiveness is better. But we watch college
basketball or why because of the all the fields we
(36:28):
get from the front of the jersey and from the
coach and the crowd. So the idea that we won't
watch the WNBA because it's not the NBA doesn't stand up,
because we do watch for human interest as much as
actual sport. The problem is, like we're being told, and
(36:49):
I don't love the idea of everyone, Well, this sport
is just growing and they need to like, hold on,
is the sport growing?
Speaker 7 (36:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Is it growing at the rate of popularity of Caitlin Clark. No, No,
it's not. And you just have to be careful. We've
we've done this, this this bit in the show a
bunch of times in how many times companies and sports
over expand and you got to you're it's you're better
(37:23):
off with a product that more people want, even on
a smaller scale, than overdoing it. And I fear that
the w NBAS can overdo it. But we got in
this discussion about efficiency and whether or not she's going
to be Tim Tebow, right, And that's what IOWA Sam said, well,
she's more efficient than Jimmer Ferdet. Then I produced the
(37:46):
statistics for Jimmer fordet and he would not say the
two words he needs to say here Is that about right?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I think there's a bigger picture because Jason also mentioned
Jimmer Furdett's name and the same breath as Tim Tebow.
And I agree with Sam that I don't think that
Caitlin Clark is like either. What I thought was great
about it was.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Iowa.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Sam then completely side swiped Jimmer Fredett to the extent
that you felt the need to defend Jimmer Fredett and
then supported his case of having equivalent numbers to Kitlin Clark,
which then Sam would refuse to apologize for trying to
side swipe Jimmer Furredette.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
And just to just to correct the record even further
as it plays out, I said, I just think it'll
be a Tim Tebow thing where we just were, oh,
you didn't say Jimmer trusted in the college career, and
then we lost interest once we figured out he was
like an average to below average football player. And then
and then Doug says and Jimmerfurdette, Okay, Dougs, And that's
(38:49):
that's what raised Sam's ire.
Speaker 8 (38:54):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
My issue with Sam was that all he had to
say was you know what I was wrong, and he
refused to say is wrong.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
I think I said it some iteration at some point.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
No, it's not. You don't need an iteration. You just
need the two words. Hey, man, I was wrong about
the efficiency.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Thing by like a percentage No, no, no, it doesn't
no no, no, no, no no no. But you're no
no no, no, no, no, you are. You're splitting hairs.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I'm not actually splitting his I'm not a careers like
what they've done. I'm not splitting hairs. I'm not disguising
she had a better career. You said he was less
status said I was wrong.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
There, I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Okay, that's it. Yeah, you're wrong.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
What about you want to squeeze out of me as
of admission that I was wrong? I was wrong. Yeah,
if you were listening, you could tell I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Everybody could tell you're wrong. It was just your inability
to say.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
But also it's by a percentage point.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
No, you're okay.
Speaker 4 (39:42):
I understand what you're saying. I I said he was more.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Efficient than let me let me help you, and let
me let me let me help you as a guy
who had struggled at times in my life to admit
that I'm wrong. Okay, you weren't wrong by a percentage point,
you were wrong by You're completely off. And here's why.
And and just so you know, when you originally said it,
I actually agreed with you because my perception of it
was that he didn't shoot a good percentage Okay, he
(40:09):
didn't have to be more efficient than her for your
statement to be wrong. He just had to be in
the ballpark. He wasn't in the ballpark. His numbers were
actually better, So we were one hundred percent wrong about
his efficiency. That's it, end of discussion. Now, next part
about it is how long are we going to care?
How long are we going to care? And my point
about this thing is what's different is there's been a
(40:31):
build up of two years. She was wildly popular last
year at Iowa, and then doubled on the popularity this year,
and it became like Elvis. Okay, it became a thing.
It became a thing, and that is Tebow. Like that's
where and now here's where I would disagree with with
(40:51):
with Jason. We did care about Tebow when he's in
the pros because he had that run where we called
it tebow time. Was that two thousand and eleven? I
think it was. I want to say it was the
fall of twenty eleven and we all and most of
our companies lost their minds. I was working to ESPAN
at the time and they were like, you can't talk
enough about Tim Teba, like really, And so my thing
(41:13):
was was more I was just like with everything else,
I was down the middle. Yes they have won games,
but yes he was. I thought Tebo got credit for
putting out fires that he started. Man looking out Grady
was in the fourth quarter, like, yeah, that's because they
were down three touchdowns heading into the fourth quarter and
they played bad teams on this but it was undeniable
that they kept winning games and it was crazy. So
(41:36):
I think she has a greater chance of having success
in the WNBA, that is, consistent success and being an
NBA All Star than Tbo did than Jim Or did,
because I don't think that she's as much of a
creation of the college landscape as some would think. Do
I think that she'll be the greatest player of all time?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I think those really really hard to come by, and
I think that that group is most of the Yukon players, right,
t Razie and Brianna Stewart, like those are the two
that everybody point to, and I don't know if she
has that, But again, I'm willing to be wrong there
and I don't actually know because I don't evaluate women's players.
I can't go back and say, oh, I remember when
(42:22):
Brianna Stewart was coming, like I don't. I wouldn't be that.
I wouldn't be that arrogant to say that I can
evaluate because I don't know how it translates because I
don't watch the WNBA and what the only thing that'll
change is now I have a little bit of a
vest that's interested in I want to see how she plays.
Every once in a while, when I'm sitting at home
(42:42):
on a Sunday and it's on and I got nothing
else to do, I'll flip it on. If the NBA
is on, I'm not watching. If most any other sport
is on, I'm probably not watching. But in the summer,
on a Saturday or Sunday and she's on ABC and
there's nothing on, and I like watching basketball about but
(43:03):
it's like we're doing this thing where we're not recognizing
whatever you want to say about the NBA's numbers. Victor
Webinyama was can't miss TV right, had to watch it.
How long did that last? Do you still watch it?
Victor Webinyama was on TV tonight? Would you absolutely watch?
And he is without any question going to be a
star for the future.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So, and and it's obviously different. She's American, she's apple pie,
She's been properly packaged. She's she lives up to the
hype in the biggest events. Like, I got nothing negative
to say about her. I'm just talking with We have
been down this road in different times. Wayne Gretzky in LA,
he had been unbelievable in one did they win five
straight Stanley Cups or four straight with the ed Minton Olers.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I don't know if it was consecutive because I thought
there was a Calgary one in there, but I think
and there.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Was also the and then the Islanders were good back
then too. But the fact is that Wayne Gretzky was great.
But he get to LA and we're like everybody paid
attention to hockey. Then they lost in the Stanley Cup playoffs.
Then like the net he We're like eh, And then
we kind of moved down with our lives and we
remembered it's hockey. We don't understand hockey. It's on during
other stuff. I do wonder if at some point we
were like, yeah, it's women's basketball. I just can't watch it.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
And the other part too.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
It is like women's basketball won't accept this to be true.
Some ofs we just don't like watching it. Some people do,
a great percentage of people don't. It's okay. There are
people you are never going to win over and people
are like, hey, give it a chance, watch it. And
those people, I wonder if they'll come back and watch
(44:34):
another game that she's not participating it. By your viewing habits,
have you ever sat down and watched the WNBA game
in the past?
Speaker 7 (44:43):
Uh? No, I have not.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Will you now?
Speaker 2 (44:46):
I don't know if I'll watch the whole thing, but
I will watch. Yeah, when you know, especially the first game,
I'll try to make time for sure. That's one of
the things with Lebron. By the way, is Lebron I
think he had thirty his first game. Is Lebron was
like all this hype and then every time we saw
him it lived up to the hype. Plus he was
so jaw drawing, jaw dropping in spectacular fashion athletically that
(45:12):
we were like, and we'd kind of been waiting for
somebody post Jordan.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Jay Stu.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
What do you think? What do you think?
Speaker 7 (45:19):
Like?
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Will you watch?
Speaker 5 (45:22):
Yes, Yes, I'm gonna watch.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I'll a Dodger game is on at the same time.
Do you watch?
Speaker 5 (45:28):
Uh?
Speaker 9 (45:28):
No?
Speaker 5 (45:29):
I mean this is we're having a conversation from the
nineties here, because there's there's a DVR now there's I
could watch that later, you know, one of those.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
You're not going back to watch a WNBA game on DVR.
Speaker 5 (45:40):
No, you gave me two choices. I would watch whatever.
The other choice was probably I would watch the supporting
event live because I like to see things live and
then go on Twitter and see how people are making
fun of it. So that's kind of my thing. I'm
a live sports guy, I mean, and I will tune
into the first game or two I think, and then
(46:00):
after the NBA is over, before the football starts, I'll
tune in again and see how she's doing.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I do want to say, though, when Tebow was coming
from Florida to the NFL, we were shocked that he
was a first round pick correct, we did not expect that.
Then when he ends up playing, he was awful for
fifty eight minutes, but all of a sudden, somehow in
the final two minutes. Yes, And so when we're talking
(46:33):
about Caitlin Clark and Tim Tebow, completely different scenarios, completely
different scenarios on Like, I feel like Caitlin Clark will
adjust to the NBA. I don't know she'll be a
superstar right away. I feel she'll fare very well, and
I also will give her the benefit of the doubt
that she'll be able to improve her game to even
(46:56):
fit the WNBA game as her career goes on. But
the the Tebow mania was something that I don't think
that we can ever really fully grasp, especially with what
he was as a player and then his point of
him bouncing around to different spots. It was always a
story if Caitlyn Clark isn't good anymore, or if you know,
(47:19):
her pro career doesn't turn out, we will lose interest.
And that is different from the Tebow thing, which was
such a out of this world experience because you just
you couldn't explain what was going on.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
U the hohod.
Speaker 6 (47:35):
That also serves into just how much we follow the NFL.
I mean we like, you know, if Mitch Trubisky signs
with the team, We're like, oh that that that can
be talked about for a segment, you know, like, yeah
Tebou as a backup what with the Jets? You know
that was a story, sure, and he just still he
was a Heisman Trophy winterho did a ton of winning
in college, but yeah, the comps for the next level
(47:56):
were not there.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, I don't think it's I don't think it's fair
for Kaitlyn Clark to be compared to t Bow.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
No, I would agree with you. I think her skills
do translate. Here's a couple of things that we don't like.
People don't realize how good Kelsey Plumblatt was, right like,
she scored over three thousand points as well, and I
think she's doing well in the WNBA, but no one's
paying attention. And the point is that she was her
(48:24):
and Sabrina I and sq were at the same time
and the same part of the country kind of co
superstars and no one cared.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
So I think you take the super off though, right,
they were stars like within this little niche.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Right, Oh, can you be a superstar within that niche,
or you have to be a star because you don't
translate out of that.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
Superstar to me has to be transcendent.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
That's fine, that's fine. I'm okay. I actually agree with that,
and I'll take that. So they were stars, and I
think they're both really good WNBA players. I don't know.
I here's the question. Is she on the Olympic team?
Kevin Clark on the Olympic team? Do we know?
Speaker 5 (49:04):
Is she?
Speaker 4 (49:04):
Is she going to be yes?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
I don't think we officially know.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
But but she she will be correct. And then the
question becomes like, how does that all work. I'm gonna
say something that is everyone is going to know to
be true, and when we clip it up and we
put it on social media, people will freak out. I
do think the dynamic that she's a woman makes it
(49:28):
really really interesting because here's my experience, guys can get jealous.
Guys can't jealous guys, do you know, especially the younger generation,
somebody else is getting, you know, fame or clout or whatever. Like,
guys can't jealous. But it's not necessarily how all guys
(49:49):
are wired, and some of it we call jealousy competitiveness,
and really it could be deemed as jealousy. Women and
not all women, but professional type A ladies can still
be very catty, very catty. I've said this often, Like
I feel it's got to be a tough being a
(50:13):
woman in our industry, right because you're judged unfairly. So
like your sports knowledge may not be the level of
a guy, when you may be a far more accomplished athlete,
have far greater depth of resources and knowledge whatever, Like
you walk into a conversation and people instinctively think that
guys know more about sports than girls do. They just
(50:34):
do and and I'm admitting that's completely unfair. So it's
a really hard one. But the toughest room in broadcasting
is the makeup room when there's multiple ladies in there,
because as much as they compete against the guys, and
they're treated unfairly by perceptions like women are awful to
(50:56):
other women. They don't unite, they don't lock arm in
arm and champion others may on camera, behind the scenes,
they kill each other. And look, the Olympics are a
they're a platform for these athletes, women and men. The
basketball players use it as a platform, like Lebron James
(51:17):
and Kevin Durant and Steph Curry. They're not going out
of the goodness of their hearts. They're not going necessarily
to win. They're going because their brands are like, dude,
you gotta go. It's the world's biggest sporting event. You
be there, you promote, we sell a bunch of shoes.
Everybody's happy, right, it's a gigantic platform. And when everybody's
fighting for the attention and here's a woman who has
(51:40):
not or she will have played half of one season
when the Olympics start, I'm interested to see how the
other ladies treat her and if they're as caddy as
I think they'll be.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at
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Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Ah, the whole cruise here,
(00:26):
my guy Dan Bayer, Jay stew And of course I
was Sam who informed me he has we're looking for
tickets for sparks Fever. No, he doesn't have sparks Fever.
The team's name is the Fever. He doesn't have sparks Fever,
although it's probably a disease coming out of some third
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(00:49):
the tyrat dot com studios. Tyrat dot com will be
get their unmatched selection fast free shipping, free road as protection,
over ten thousand recommended sallars tyrat dot com. It's the
way that tire buying should be. Okay, I have a
question for you, is it does relate to baseball? And
I've often said this, I don't believe the baseball playoffs
(01:11):
begin until the play in games have concluded. Right, playoffs
multiple So do the NBA playoffs start or is this
the play in tournament? I don't think you're in the
playoffs if you play today. I don't think you're in
the playoffs and play today. And the interesting part about
it is, in the best case scenario, it's the greatest
(01:33):
thing ever for the NBA because regardless of where they finished,
the Warriors would go to the playoffs and the Lakers
would go to the playoffs, which I still think is
the most likely outcome, the most likely outcome of the
of the Western Conference play in tournament at the Lakers.
We discussed this yesterday. Would they, in their heart of hearts,
(01:53):
prefer to get the eight seed to play the Thunder? Yes,
but they can't risk it and do gamesmanship and lose tonight.
They're not good enough to just show up and beat
the Kings or the Warriors in the second game of
the play in So I think the Lakers win, and
then I think the Warriors win this one, then beat
the Pelicans, and then everybody is happy. Because in truth,
(02:17):
the reason I believe baseball expanded there play in playoffs.
Whatever was what we're seeing play out in the NBA,
because Baseball's playoffs have been a ratings disaster. When the
Yankees and Red Sox are not both involved, and if
neither involved, it's really a mess. Like last year, the
(02:40):
same is true for the NBA. You may have Lebron fatigue,
but you definitely want Lebron in the playoffs, even root
against him. You may have Steph and Warrior and Draymond fatigue,
but you still want them in the playoffs. So we
start to play in tournament. It's not the playoffs. I've
pretty much laid out how I think it's going to
(03:01):
work out. We'll discuss more as the show rolls on.
John Middlecoff's going to join us in twenty minutes. We'll
get you ready for the upcoming NFL draft, Yes, dambire.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Before you move on for the playing games, for your
scenario that plays out. I'm just because we had somebody
on last week that you know, you pointed out the
standings and they said, well, hey, if the season was
there was no play in tournament, you wouldn't have Golden
State here with an opportunity to make a push or
they wouldn't even be in the bracket. They would be
(03:37):
in the ten seed. And I think on paper, in
this NBA day and age that we live, that is correct,
but I don't think it's an accurate portrayal of how
teams now play towards the end of the season. The
only team that actually really had urgency was Golden State
(03:57):
because there was at one point where they were battling
with the Rockets to make sure they were in the
ten spot, and then they had a game against the Rockets,
kicked the crap out of them, and the rest was
pretty much history and eliminated any chance that Houston had,
And like so many teams just kind of cruise along
and throw in the towel. I just wonder in all
(04:18):
of this of you know, we look at tonight and
we say, yeah, it's great for the NBA they have
Steph Curry and Lebron James in these games. If you
didn't have the play in tournament, don't you think the
urgency towards the end of the regular season would have
been much different? Yeah, of course, yeah, And that's the
you know, that's the other part of it is, wouldn't
it be great to see Lebron James and Steph Curry
(04:40):
and in Zion and all these teams battling it out
going down the stretch where the last two weeks are worthy.
Instead of being like, all right, well, we may be
the sixth seed, but if we're the seven, at least
we're in. We don't want to do anything foolish. We
think we can win the seventh seed because I went
and looked back at the play in stand or the
NBA standing since the playing tournament game more than half
(05:00):
of the time, Doug, there's a sizeable gap between the
tenth seed and the eleventh seed. Yes, and I don't
think that's great for basketball, because we know certain teams
just throw in the towel. But I don't think that
there's as much urgency. Wasn't every year. Sometimes it was
a game that was a difference, but more often than not,
you had a sizeable gap because there really wasn't any urgency.
(05:21):
And I just I don't like, tonight is great, and
tomorrow will be great, and maybe Thursday and Friday will
be good as well, But are we sacrificing the final
two weeks of the season just so we can have
these great nights in the playoffs. I don't know if
it's necessarily.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I think the final two weeks of the season were actually okay.
I think it's you know, it's it's the unspoken part
which the NBA is trying to address. And the truth is,
like with the play in tournament, I assume you with
the in season tournament it's trying to address because I
actually think your point would be even stronger, and I'll
(05:57):
help make it stronger. Is it's not just less would
you have morey throughout the year? Right? Because everybody was
doing what we did in college, which is like you
don't pay attention to the assignments and the regular part
of this, and then all of a sudden the finals
come up. You're like, oh, I got a bone up.
You're in every study session, you go and see the
professor and you're like, look, dude, had you just been
doing this the whole year, you wouldn't need the final
(06:20):
to help change your final grade. You wouldn't have to
call the professor afterwards and beg for a little bit
extra credit had you just been doing this. So you're right,
it only points out if we didn't have this with
the Warriors, with the Lakers, where they have spent more
time and had more detail and given guys less day off,
less days off, so they wouldn't be in this. But
(06:41):
the difference is I think if you look, if you
predate the play in tournament, the ninth spot, there was
a gap there oftentimes and those teams, if they weren't in,
they were all tanking. They were all tanking. And now
you have fewer teams tanking and fewer time to decide
you want a tank. So I think that's really still
what's at work. Is it better modestly, it's the law,
(07:05):
like what you're pointing out is the law of unintended consequences.
The intended consequence of this whole thing is to make
more teams competitive at the end of the year. So
it's not just ten, it's eleven, twelve, thirteen. Think they
got a chance and they haven't gotten there. Baseball has
gotten there. Baseball is way more competitive at the back end.
But I think that part has worked because you did
(07:28):
have the Suns, had to put a lot more effort
into it, had to play those final couple of games
so that he got out of the play in tournament.
So I think it's not we focus on seven through ten,
but five and six are also important, and then eleven
and twelve are kind of important. So are there scenarios
that could make this better? Yes, absolutely yes, And there's
(07:50):
ways in which you can make the nd season tournament
more important. Is if based upon your results in the
inca's tournament, it creates some sort of ongoing score for
the regular for the rest of the regular season. But
it's all telling us what we all know to be true,
which is nobody cares about the regular season, and teams
are just now going like, all right, now, we'll figure
it out. And you know, the Warriors and Lakers seem
(08:12):
to get it going a little bit late, and now
the Lakers are in this position where they don't really
want to be the seventh seed. They want to be
the eight, but they can't risk it tonight. So I
do think that's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Seas get degrees, right, that's the old series, yea, yeah, yes,
yeah yeah, and both these teams got seas. I also
think that the timing of where the NBA is at
this point, meeting Lebron's age, the Trio and golden state
of where they are, that that plays a part into it.
If this was if this was in the late twenty
(08:43):
teams and we were having this where Golden State is
dominant at that time. I think we look at the
play in tournament. I look at the play in tournament
for what we had last year, especially that the when
the you know, Lakers ended up beating Minnesota. But then
you had Oklahoma City when their game, so that was
a shocker. And then they have this fired up matchup
against the Timberwolves and the Timberwolves win it and get momentum.
(09:07):
And I looked at that as like a springboard, like okay,
look out for Oklahoma City, And what a springboard it was,
because now they're the number one overall seed in the
Western Conference. Like we knew, like you know, good things
were on the horizon. It was like when the I
think it was the Clippers a few years back, ended
up going for it and when they they didn't have to,
or you could have just punted on the season. Instead
they went for the eight seed and it paid off
(09:27):
in the long run. Yeah, I think there's more value
in that than there is in giving a safety net
or a lifeline to aging veterans who don't put that
much into the regular shit.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
No, I get it. But the other part too, It
is it's a lot like baseball in that in that
play in game, you use your ace, so you lose
your ace for the next series. Right in this, like
I think for the Lakers, one game let alone too
and remember these games are played at a much higher level.
Does that Does it wear you out for the end
(10:00):
of a series?
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Does it wear you down? I don't think it. I
mean obviously didn't last year with the Lakers getting in
and then and then making a little bit of a run.
But it does increase every game, increases the risk of
injury when you have older players, and it does potentially
take time away from you. And for the Warriors, every
game leads you closer and closer to the inevitable Draymond
Green blow up in the suspension right like you can
(10:23):
almost set your watch to it. It's going to happen.
It's just a question of when it When it happened.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I will say this, and I think that it's important
tonight to look at this the play in memories that
I have yeap are been blowouts too, Yes, yes there
have been, but there are also been We mentioned Oklahoma
City last year, John Morant's arrival. None of it has
been remember what Lebron did in that playing game? Remember what?
Like I don't even I don't even remember. The stories
(10:49):
that have come from this have been about teams who
are trying to make that next level or to become
a playoff team instead of just you know, allowing teams
reason the slack off.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That's all Stug gottlab Show here on Fox Sports Tradio. Okay,
I have a question for you. Okay, Sam is mister
Iowa in case she didn't know, he's literally mister Iowa.
He's more Iowa than the Iowa Caucasus, right, Iowa your Caucasus. Anyway,
last night, Caitlyn Clark gets drafted and the ladies looked amazing,
(11:25):
and there was a ton of attention given, and we
did do the thing where we pretended like we cared
about the other draft picks. Right, but the truth is,
so here's my belief in it. Right, there's three kind
of three possible Caitlin Clark effects. Does she continue to
(11:46):
get garner the attention that she has gotten. Does that
attention only follow her? Does it follow the entire league?
Does it follow all of women's basketball? And look, here's
what's missing. Here's what's missing we have to recognize is
(12:09):
the power of college sports. Right if she plays for
anybody other than Iowa, I'm not sure the response is
the same. I'm just not because Iowa. I've told you this.
Iowa kind of speaks to us. Feels down home, feels
like regular girls, you know, feels like a program that
I had no idea they'd been good, that Lisa Bluter
(12:29):
been this good this long. Look at her record, she's
been great. Brings attention like, oh, it's just a solid program.
Whereas it feels like whatever you whatever your perception is
of the SEC, it just feels like and there's nothing
nefarious at work. They're not doing anything illegal, but just
feels like, hey, we're gonna load up, go get a
famous coach, go get famous players, throw a bunch of
(12:51):
money at him, and we're gonna win on based upon
that fame. Like all of that, The juxtaposition of the
two really works. Of course, angel Rees being black and
her being white. I think it works. I think the
whole story is interesting. But now you take away, did
anyone really know that the Indiana team was called the
Fever until the last couple of days no, because there's
(13:14):
no like historical, oh rivalry or name recognition. So you
take away any of the brand recognition other than the WNBA,
which you know exists, you don't know anything else about it.
No one knows who the coach of the Fever is,
No one knows who any of the players the Fever are.
There's no following nationally. Obviously locally they've done a good job.
(13:34):
They had ten thousand people in the arena to watch
for be drafted last night. And the reality is, I'm
not sure there's going to be immediate rivals as much
as rivals with the elite players in the league. So
do we think there's a carryover because remember there's a
month between now and then and now in their first game,
(13:57):
their first game is going to be played when the
NBA playoffs are in full swing. Plus the weather starts
to be warm and fewer people start to watch TV,
and those built in rivalries like they they don't cease
to exist, but they're harder to create big games because
the games are happening all the time. Jaycedu, what do
(14:20):
you think her first year is like? Remember, and I
pointed this out that I know WNBA ratings have been up.
Remember this year, they're going to have to take a
break mid season because of the Olympics, and then when
she's on the Olympic team, she will not be the
best player. She probably will not start, which I don't
know what that creates for us in terms of our
(14:41):
expectations and our appreciation of her. What do you think
happens our first year in the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I let's see.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I think there's going to be an initial excitement. And
you know, we're broadcasting, we're broad casting, We're relating to
the common sports fan. I'm not talking about WNBA fans here,
I'm talking about the common person me. There's going to
be initial interest. We'll pay attention, we'll talk about it
on the show. Then the NBA playoffs will over, will
(15:08):
drown it out. At the end of the NBA playoffs,
we're all going to check in to see if Kaitlyn
Clark is any good, if she's above average to average.
Maybe we tune into a couple of her games and
that lasts throughout the season, and I don't think they're
a playoff team, and then it'll just go back to
being the WNBA. Caitlin Clark was just kind of an
average player in this league, and she was a one
(15:30):
off as an Iowa basketball player. That's what this is
going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Tim Tebow, Tim Tebo, Tim Tebow or Jimmer Furdett. I
think she's better than Tebow and better than Fordet. I
think she'll be really good. Do I think she'll be
the best player in the league. I do not.
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Can I just add something, Jimmer Fredett was not an
efficient scorer. He shot a lot and his team's never
went far in the NCAA tournament. She's the greatest scorer
in the history of NCAA if you want to count
both men and women.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
She's way more than a Jimmer for debt.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
I think that's almost sick a disrespect to compare her
to for debt. Yes, they both shoot a lot, but
she's just like a way better basketball player than Jimmer
for debt, and he's playing in China. I mean, she's
she's still going to be like one of the premier
players in the world.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
I think about the last three quarters of the game
against South Carolina. I think about that that As her
WNBA career, she made some shots but was largely marginalized
by bigger and better players.
Speaker 6 (16:26):
Sure, but she's still opened with eighteen points, and she
can adjust her So I said the last three quarters right, right,
But she still can't. You can't exclude the first quarter
where she there will also be better players around her. Absolutely,
she's got Boston, She's got they've been loading up. They've
been loading up high picks on.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
The By the way, Jimmer Fordet's senior year at BYU,
he shot forty from three. That's not inefficient, five from field,
that's not an efficient ninety from the line, and he
averaged twenty nine points a game and four and a
half the sister game.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I just remember him shooting a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, and I remember her shooting a lot too. What
were her stats better than his? Were they?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Okay? So what what did she shoot from the field?
Speaker 6 (17:12):
I believe she shot higher than forty five? Okay, But again,
his he never he never took an average team deep
into the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
She shot thirty seven point thirty eight from three. That's
a percentage point lower. She shot forty five from the field.
It's the exact same percentage he shot. She averaged thirty
one a game, and she averaged nine assists. To get right,
So she averaged twice the mant of assists.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
She also almost Yeah, she's.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Twice number of assists. Right if you remember the reason
his team didn't go far in the tournament, Do you
remember what happened? No, His star center Brandon Davies got
suspended for the team for an honor code violation. He
had sex I know, I know, and with the woman
he eventually he is married to now and has kids
with Noway, she was a volleyball player now, So yes,
(18:05):
I'm you're making the argument against him, which is the
same argument that Jay Williams made against her, which is
kind of ridiculous. I agree with you. Winning and averaging
nine assists a game is amazing what she's been able
to do. Okay, but let's not do the I'm gonna
talk ish about jim or Furdett, which is not the
(18:27):
you said he was inefficient. His efficiency numbers are exactly
the same as hers, matter of fact, slightly better from three.
So just go like my bad, I remember it differently.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Look at her one, look at her career, and I
what she probably was.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Say no, no, no, no, just start with my bad. I
misremembered it. I didn't remember it. I just gave you
the stats. There is no argue. The thing about stats is,
here's how they work. There is no argument with them. Okay,
I'm listening.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Great, No, no, give me by a percentage point. No, no, no, no,
it's the bare Doug. I'm not going to apologize if
you're not.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Apologizing a meeting that you're wrong. Sure, so that's what
you do. This is a big boy stuff. Hey, my bad,
I was wrong.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
You said it? No, no, no, Doug, what do you
what will you bump back with?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Nirvana's no apologies coming back?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Don't have to apologize, you have to go my bad,
I had it wrong.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I remember him being remembered. Yeah, I misremembered.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Okay, fair enough. If you want to misremember, you're good.
It's Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. So, Dan,
what do you think happens? What do you think our
first year is?
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Like?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think that it's I think that it's great, and
I think that I don't know how you talked about
the break with the Olympics in an All of their
schedule goes once football season takes over. It's over. Yes, yep,
there'll be people watching. Maybe the ratings will be higher
than what they were. But she's really filled in an
enormous gap of our attention once football ended.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
No question, I mean really, As I said, I think
it's more an indictment on the men's game than I
than I do on anything else. But it also shows,
you know, what an interesting personal interest story this is.
I just don't know when that wears out? When does that?
When is like I'm good, I'm good, Like we don't.
We still don't follow Jessica. That fell down a well
and it was all apologies by Nirvana. As I've been
(20:30):
getting feedback from my buddies, I'm so sorry, Sam o, Sam,
you're good. Sam got a little hot there when he
got pressed to say my bad. It's not it's not that.
What's that? What are the kids saying nowadays? It's not
that deep, not that deep.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Yeah, I'm good, I'm good. Papa Roach did no apologies,
roche Papa Roach. Well, that's what it was, Papa Roach.
I can't name a Papa Roach song.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
No apologies there.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I'm gonna apologize for not knowing.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I will apologize as well for not knowing that. That's
my forgetting it wrong.
Speaker 8 (21:05):
This is the best of the done dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Radio stug Otlib Show, Fox Sports Radio. So we established
this is not the playoffs, it's to play in right,
and yesterday we had a little bit of this discussion,
but let's continue it, which is we all agree the
Lakers are underdogs tonight, and they blew out the Pelicans Sunday.
(21:32):
It's now Tuesday. They're playing the same team in the
same town with obviously a lot more at stake. But
I don't know, like, is there that much more at stake.
I had the Pelicans one Sunday, they wouldn't be playing today,
so there was obviously a lot of steak. And if
you lose today, you still get to play another playing
game over the against the winner of the Kings and
(21:55):
the Warriors. I'm into it. I like it. I like
the playing series. I needed a bit of like I
need it every time I turned on an NBA game
for somebody to explain to me all the different factors
in all the different seeds. I do get it. But
to me, if it's your Lakers, like you can't you
(22:16):
may if they lose tonight, there will be people that say, well,
you know, they just they want to play the thunder no,
they don't. They want to win tonight. They want no
part of an elimination game, likely against the Warriors, no
matter how much they dominate the Warriors last year in
the playoffs. You want no part of that. Steph and
(22:36):
Clay start hitting shots, and there's nothing you can do.
You cannot keep up with that volume. You keep up
with that volume, you know? And also interesting is the
did you know that Lebron James finished with a higher
three point shooting percentage than Steph Curry? That said, first
(22:57):
of all, volume obviously is like in half, But does
anybody believe that who would you rather give an open
three point or two in a playing game? Lebron or Steph?
And nobody would answer Lebron, Nobody would answer to Steph curR.
You'd rather get leave moment, Joe Varden joins us. He
covers the entire league for the Athletic and Joe, let's
(23:21):
start with the Lakers tonight. You know there are some
that are like, hey, they'd be better off losing this
game so they could win the next playing game and
then play the Thunder. But they don't want to play
two games that important, that close together, regardless of how
good the matchup is they don't they have to win
a night.
Speaker 7 (23:38):
I think they want to. I think they have pushed
the Pelicans around all year, and I just get this sense,
you know, I mean, somebody a caller could jump on
Sam wrong. I just I've been around Lebron a lot
over his career, and I do not recall him losing
games to try to manipulate the matchup. He has lived
(24:02):
by the sort of motto just get me in the tournament.
This is the easiest way to get in the tournament.
Win tonight, get the rest, and you know, then you know,
let's the let's the chips fall. I mean, there's that
old cliche. It's not a cliche, but it's like he's
not playing to win a round. You know, he's trying
(24:23):
to win a title. And it's gonna be tough, you know.
I mean, no one's gonna pick the Lakers to do that.
They no one would pick them to upset Denver. But
if you, if you're good enough, if that's your goal,
win it all, then I don't I don't think you
lose games to try to manipulate the brackets.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yes, but last year they got the Grizzlies without their
big guys, you know, and I you know, I'm guessing
Murray will be back and it'll be fine. But this
is a matchup that I mean, they couldn't play d'An
Angel Russell in the playoffs last year against him. I
just I don't see how that matchup gets better for
the Lakers, right.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
I mean, you know, I think we're all picking Denver
in Boston Finals, you know, for a reason. And and
I mean, you know, the Denver has the best starting
five in the league or close and probably the m
v P and the reigning champs. And yeah, I mean
those are matchup problems. I mean, Jokis is always a
(25:24):
matchup problem for a d But again, I just I
don't see the Lakers in that mindset of of dodging
and losing on purpose. I just don't. I just don't
see it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
How much of the Warriors have left in the tank?
Speaker 7 (25:43):
Boy, Doug, that's a great question. If you mean, if
you mean, like, is the dynasty over? I think it is.
I just think too many pieces are are too far gone.
And I just I didn't see anything this year in
(26:05):
their best of times that told me they were close.
And I guess they make a major trade or something
this summer. Then I think that is like a restart,
but that doesn't count. I just think this group, this
nucleus has run its course. Could they get out of
the plane. Sure, you know, and then we'll be talking
about that old veteran experience level issue in the playoffs
(26:29):
and you know how that impacts the thunder and you
know we'll be saying the same thing for Minnesota too.
But you know, long term, yeah, I think I think
we've seen the end of the Curry Draymond Clay dynasty.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
What Joe Varden joining us on the Doug Gotlib Show
here on Fox Sports. Ready he covers the NBA for
the athletic Uh, what are you hearing about Joel Embiid
and his availability?
Speaker 9 (26:59):
Well, I think yeah, I think he's going to be
able to play. I mean, you know, by all accounts,
what happened on Sunday was precautionary. You know, you take
in who they were playing, uh, and just the fact
that even with a win.
Speaker 7 (27:18):
On on on Sunday, the Sixers still had too many
other things that had to happen to get out of
the play in and obviously they smashed the nets anyway.
So so I think you know, I think there's always
going to be a little bit of concern. I mean,
you know, one of my big things is is USA basketball.
That's one of my beats, and you know, Joel is
(27:38):
on the team, and I just think, you know, that's awesome.
But at the same time, like this is incredibly early
to be to be picking that team when Joel's injury
injury history is what it is, especially once he gets
into the playoffs, what has typically happened to him. So yeah,
so there's always going to be concerned. But but I
(27:59):
do expect to well to play and tomorrow, Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Then there's another knee injury. And you mentioned the potential MVP.
I think Luca's got a great shot to win MVP.
They're going to take on the Clippers, and we don't
know about Kawhi Leonard's knee. What's his status for their series?
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Yeah, you know what, I'm actually hearing conflicting things.
Speaker 9 (28:23):
Out of l A.
Speaker 7 (28:23):
You know, I'm hearing that he's pushing the play and
they think he will play. And then I've also heard
a little bit more skepticism there. I do think that
his knee situation is why he is not yet the
twelfth man for for Team USA. I think, you know,
the good news is I don't have the breadth the
(28:45):
schedule in front of me, but you know, they either
play Saturday or Sunday. There's still time. But yeah, I
mean there's certainly concern in LA with with regards to
Kawhi's knee.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
So you you do, who do you vote for for VP?
Speaker 7 (29:01):
Thank you? I just did that. I thought about this
long and hard. I at one time had all three
guys at number one. I ended up with Jokic ahead
of Luca, with Shay third. Shaye just kind of fell
off there at the end. He's now tied for the
league lead and steals. He also was the leader on
(29:25):
the youngest team ever to to to get a one
seed in the NBA. So that was a hard vote,
really hard. Luca's numbers are out rageous how good he is,
but fifth place hurt for me in the end. And
you know, Jokich's like dominance all over the court, and
(29:46):
he's he's really not He's people say he's not a
two way player, but I don't even know if I
buy that. At times, like just kind of watching him
play and the way he moves, So that That's how
I went. But I mean we had three awesome, awesome
candidates at the top, and then I'll tell you Number
four for me was Brunton. What he's done with the
(30:07):
Knicks nothing short of heroic. And then I had JANNISTI.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Why is Brunson not on the livery team?
Speaker 7 (30:14):
Well, we still have an open spot. We'll see what
happens there. But when you have Steph Curry and then
you have Drew Holliday, who plays the role that you
would want Jalen to play, then you look at who
else is on the team.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
You know, I mean Haliburton. Pick Haliburton ahead of ahead
of Brunson as hal Burton's a better shooter? Is that
the idea?
Speaker 7 (30:40):
He's faster, Uh, he gets rid of the ball quicker.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
He does something that nobody else on the team really does,
which is what you know, Uh, run the break lead
and transition.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Doesn't you know, if the ball is in his hands,
it doesn't need to stay there. He gets rid of
it super quick. Jalen spent a lot of time last
year with USA dominating the ball. And then you know
they also have Booker, they also have Edwards, you know,
and then they also have Tatum Durant. So they it's
just it's harder to take another guard there in a
(31:17):
in a tournament where size is paramount.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
No, I get it.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I mean, but but if it's Brunson for uh, you know,
is Brunson for Haliburton, I don't. I have no question.
I wouldn't. There's there in no world would I take
Tyrese Haliburton if I want to win ahead of Jalen Brunson. None.
I disagree with whoever made that selection, regardless of how
much the ball I know it's new, regards how much
(31:43):
the ball stops with with with with Brunson. Okay, when
we get to the actual playoffs, who who of these
eight teams? Is what four are going to be playing?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (31:57):
The final four? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
No, no, no, no of the of the playing Okay,
So you got Pels, Lakers, Warriors, Kings, and then you
have what Sixers, Hawks, Bulls. Who's the fourth team I'm forgetting?
Forgetting somebody else? Heat, Heat, SOT Heat, Sixers and who.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
Yeah, I'm going I like the Heat not to win tomorrow,
but to win the play in finale. So I like Sixers, Heat,
and I like Lakers tonight, and I like the Warriors
getting through and in as the as the overall.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Eats, I shall see Joe great stuff. You can read
his work in The Athletic download that or log in now,
get a subscription for it. Joe awesome stuff. Enjoy the playoffs.
We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 7 (32:48):
Okay, thanks Doug.
Speaker 8 (32:49):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsportsradio dot
com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Oh what up with you?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Doug gottlib Show, Foxsports Radio? Oh man? I love the
dynamic we have growing here.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
We'll get to that in a Second's Doug Gotleep Show
broadcast live from the tiright dot com studios. Tyright dot com.
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(33:34):
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should be Welcome in good second hour of the show.
A reminder after the show, we have a podcast only hour. Okay,
it's called in the bonus. So you get done. You
want to download this podcast? Great? You want to download uh,
the podcast only version great do that. Just type in
(33:56):
Doug Gotlieberver. We download podcast, make sure you subscribe, review
all that different stuff. I want to talk about Pat Mahomes,
but I guess it's kind of evergreen right where he
was somebody called him the greatest of all time and
he was like, I'm not the greatest of all time
sort of thing, which I truly love. You know, it's
(34:20):
the you can't give yourself a nickname, you can't call
yourself a grace of all time. Let everybody else say
that for you. So the way it works on our
show is we get done. Sometimes we'll have a little
bit of work to do. And I want to talk
about this quote, which is from Time magazine to Time
magazine still produce people that does it still have an
actual like magazine.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
They still have a magazine on the on all the
magazine stands across the country.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
They have magazine stands at the airport. Jinks who can't talk?
I said, Jinks. Neither of them can talk right and
can't talk, I said, Jenks, you said some of at
the same time, and that right, Dan Byrus and the Heather,
Yes has to be there's something you have to there's
(35:06):
some sort of phrase which unlocks your ability to talk again.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
When you do the jings, you got to say, like
one of them has to say, buy me a coke, right.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I think so, yeah, I think so. Anyway, we'll get
back to the Pat Mahomes thing. I still think that
the so here's what happened. Okay, we're having a discussion
about Caitlin Clark, and believe it or not, like this
is I I kind of think we've talked about a
(35:35):
topic that everybody's talking about. I hate when we force
things and you get this time of year, we're like,
there's like, this is a real topic. I think a
lot of most people are full of crap, like, oh,
I like watching women's basketball way more than the NBA.
Like no, you don't, No, you don't, you don't. There's
(35:56):
things that may turn you off about the NBA, and
there's things about the but you haven't watched the WNBA game,
so you have no idea what it looks like, and
when you do, you'd be like that was something.
Speaker 7 (36:07):
Now.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
The other part to it, and this is a real thing,
is we do not always watch the better sport. What
I mean is like G League basketball is better than
college basketball in terms of the overall talent on the floor,
and sometimes the competitiveness is better. But we watch college
basketball or why because of the all the fields we
(36:28):
get from the front of the jersey and from the
coach and the crowd. So the idea that we won't
watch the WNBA because it's not the NBA doesn't stand up,
because we do watch for human interest as much as
actual sport. The problem is, like we're being told, and
(36:49):
I don't love the idea of everyone, Well, this sport
is just growing and they need to like, hold on,
is the sport growing?
Speaker 7 (36:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Is it growing at the rate of popularity of Caitlin Clark. No, No,
it's not. And you just have to be careful. We've
we've done this, this this bit in the show a
bunch of times in how many times companies and sports
over expand and you got to you're it's you're better
(37:23):
off with a product that more people want, even on
a smaller scale, than overdoing it. And I fear that
the w NBAS can overdo it. But we got in
this discussion about efficiency and whether or not she's going
to be Tim Tebow, right, And that's what IOWA Sam said, well,
she's more efficient than Jimmer Ferdet. Then I produced the
(37:46):
statistics for Jimmer fordet and he would not say the
two words he needs to say here Is that about right?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I think there's a bigger picture because Jason also mentioned
Jimmer Furdett's name and the same breath as Tim Tebow.
And I agree with Sam that I don't think that
Caitlin Clark is like either. What I thought was great
about it was.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Iowa.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Sam then completely side swiped Jimmer Fredett to the extent
that you felt the need to defend Jimmer Fredett and
then supported his case of having equivalent numbers to Kitlin Clark,
which then Sam would refuse to apologize for trying to
side swipe Jimmer Furredette.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
And just to just to correct the record even further
as it plays out, I said, I just think it'll
be a Tim Tebow thing where we just were, oh,
you didn't say Jimmer trusted in the college career, and
then we lost interest once we figured out he was
like an average to below average football player. And then
and then Doug says and Jimmerfurdette, Okay, Dougs, And that's
(38:49):
that's what raised Sam's ire.
Speaker 8 (38:54):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
My issue with Sam was that all he had to
say was you know what I was wrong, and he
refused to say is wrong.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
I think I said it some iteration at some point.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
No, it's not. You don't need an iteration. You just
need the two words. Hey, man, I was wrong about
the efficiency.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Thing by like a percentage No, no, no, it doesn't
no no, no, no, no no no. But you're no
no no, no, no, no, you are. You're splitting hairs.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I'm not actually splitting his I'm not a careers like
what they've done. I'm not splitting hairs. I'm not disguising
she had a better career. You said he was less
status said I was wrong.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
There, I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Okay, that's it. Yeah, you're wrong.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
What about you want to squeeze out of me as
of admission that I was wrong? I was wrong. Yeah,
if you were listening, you could tell I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Everybody could tell you're wrong. It was just your inability
to say.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
But also it's by a percentage point.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
No, you're okay.
Speaker 4 (39:42):
I understand what you're saying. I I said he was more.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Efficient than let me let me help you, and let
me let me let me help you as a guy
who had struggled at times in my life to admit
that I'm wrong. Okay, you weren't wrong by a percentage point,
you were wrong by You're completely off. And here's why.
And and just so you know, when you originally said it,
I actually agreed with you because my perception of it
was that he didn't shoot a good percentage Okay, he
(40:09):
didn't have to be more efficient than her for your
statement to be wrong. He just had to be in
the ballpark. He wasn't in the ballpark. His numbers were
actually better, So we were one hundred percent wrong about
his efficiency. That's it, end of discussion. Now, next part
about it is how long are we going to care?
How long are we going to care? And my point
about this thing is what's different is there's been a
(40:31):
build up of two years. She was wildly popular last
year at Iowa, and then doubled on the popularity this year,
and it became like Elvis. Okay, it became a thing.
It became a thing, and that is Tebow. Like that's
where and now here's where I would disagree with with
(40:51):
with Jason. We did care about Tebow when he's in
the pros because he had that run where we called
it tebow time. Was that two thousand and eleven? I
think it was. I want to say it was the
fall of twenty eleven and we all and most of
our companies lost their minds. I was working to ESPAN
at the time and they were like, you can't talk
enough about Tim Teba, like really, And so my thing
(41:13):
was was more I was just like with everything else,
I was down the middle. Yes they have won games,
but yes he was. I thought Tebo got credit for
putting out fires that he started. Man looking out Grady
was in the fourth quarter, like, yeah, that's because they
were down three touchdowns heading into the fourth quarter and
they played bad teams on this but it was undeniable
that they kept winning games and it was crazy. So
(41:36):
I think she has a greater chance of having success
in the WNBA, that is, consistent success and being an
NBA All Star than Tbo did than Jim Or did,
because I don't think that she's as much of a
creation of the college landscape as some would think. Do
I think that she'll be the greatest player of all time?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I think those really really hard to come by, and
I think that that group is most of the Yukon players, right,
t Razie and Brianna Stewart, like those are the two
that everybody point to, and I don't know if she
has that, But again, I'm willing to be wrong there
and I don't actually know because I don't evaluate women's players.
I can't go back and say, oh, I remember when
(42:22):
Brianna Stewart was coming, like I don't. I wouldn't be that.
I wouldn't be that arrogant to say that I can
evaluate because I don't know how it translates because I
don't watch the WNBA and what the only thing that'll
change is now I have a little bit of a
vest that's interested in I want to see how she plays.
Every once in a while, when I'm sitting at home
(42:42):
on a Sunday and it's on and I got nothing
else to do, I'll flip it on. If the NBA
is on, I'm not watching. If most any other sport
is on, I'm probably not watching. But in the summer,
on a Saturday or Sunday and she's on ABC and
there's nothing on, and I like watching basketball about but
(43:03):
it's like we're doing this thing where we're not recognizing
whatever you want to say about the NBA's numbers. Victor
Webinyama was can't miss TV right, had to watch it.
How long did that last? Do you still watch it?
Victor Webinyama was on TV tonight? Would you absolutely watch?
And he is without any question going to be a
star for the future.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So, and and it's obviously different. She's American, she's apple pie,
She's been properly packaged. She's she lives up to the
hype in the biggest events. Like, I got nothing negative
to say about her. I'm just talking with We have
been down this road in different times. Wayne Gretzky in LA,
he had been unbelievable in one did they win five
straight Stanley Cups or four straight with the ed Minton Olers.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I don't know if it was consecutive because I thought
there was a Calgary one in there, but I think
and there.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Was also the and then the Islanders were good back
then too. But the fact is that Wayne Gretzky was great.
But he get to LA and we're like everybody paid
attention to hockey. Then they lost in the Stanley Cup playoffs.
Then like the net he We're like eh, And then
we kind of moved down with our lives and we
remembered it's hockey. We don't understand hockey. It's on during
other stuff. I do wonder if at some point we
were like, yeah, it's women's basketball. I just can't watch it.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
And the other part too.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
It is like women's basketball won't accept this to be true.
Some ofs we just don't like watching it. Some people do,
a great percentage of people don't. It's okay. There are
people you are never going to win over and people
are like, hey, give it a chance, watch it. And
those people, I wonder if they'll come back and watch
(44:34):
another game that she's not participating it. By your viewing habits,
have you ever sat down and watched the WNBA game
in the past?
Speaker 7 (44:43):
Uh? No, I have not.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Will you now?
Speaker 2 (44:46):
I don't know if I'll watch the whole thing, but
I will watch. Yeah, when you know, especially the first game,
I'll try to make time for sure. That's one of
the things with Lebron. By the way, is Lebron I
think he had thirty his first game. Is Lebron was
like all this hype and then every time we saw
him it lived up to the hype. Plus he was
so jaw drawing, jaw dropping in spectacular fashion athletically that
(45:12):
we were like, and we'd kind of been waiting for
somebody post Jordan.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Jay Stu.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
What do you think? What do you think?
Speaker 7 (45:19):
Like?
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Will you watch?
Speaker 5 (45:22):
Yes, Yes, I'm gonna watch.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I'll a Dodger game is on at the same time.
Do you watch?
Speaker 5 (45:28):
Uh?
Speaker 9 (45:28):
No?
Speaker 5 (45:29):
I mean this is we're having a conversation from the
nineties here, because there's there's a DVR now there's I
could watch that later, you know, one of those.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
You're not going back to watch a WNBA game on DVR.
Speaker 5 (45:40):
No, you gave me two choices. I would watch whatever.
The other choice was probably I would watch the supporting
event live because I like to see things live and
then go on Twitter and see how people are making
fun of it. So that's kind of my thing. I'm
a live sports guy, I mean, and I will tune
into the first game or two I think, and then
(46:00):
after the NBA is over, before the football starts, I'll
tune in again and see how she's doing.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I do want to say, though, when Tebow was coming
from Florida to the NFL, we were shocked that he
was a first round pick correct, we did not expect that.
Then when he ends up playing, he was awful for
fifty eight minutes, but all of a sudden, somehow in
the final two minutes. Yes, And so when we're talking
(46:33):
about Caitlin Clark and Tim Tebow, completely different scenarios, completely
different scenarios on Like, I feel like Caitlin Clark will
adjust to the NBA. I don't know she'll be a
superstar right away. I feel she'll fare very well, and
I also will give her the benefit of the doubt
that she'll be able to improve her game to even
(46:56):
fit the WNBA game as her career goes on. But
the the Tebow mania was something that I don't think
that we can ever really fully grasp, especially with what
he was as a player and then his point of
him bouncing around to different spots. It was always a
story if Caitlyn Clark isn't good anymore, or if you know,
(47:19):
her pro career doesn't turn out, we will lose interest.
And that is different from the Tebow thing, which was
such a out of this world experience because you just
you couldn't explain what was going on.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
U the hohod.
Speaker 6 (47:35):
That also serves into just how much we follow the NFL.
I mean we like, you know, if Mitch Trubisky signs
with the team, We're like, oh that that that can
be talked about for a segment, you know, like, yeah
Tebou as a backup what with the Jets? You know
that was a story, sure, and he just still he
was a Heisman Trophy winterho did a ton of winning
in college, but yeah, the comps for the next level
(47:56):
were not there.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, I don't think it's I don't think it's fair
for Kaitlyn Clark to be compared to t Bow.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
No, I would agree with you. I think her skills
do translate. Here's a couple of things that we don't like.
People don't realize how good Kelsey Plumblatt was, right like,
she scored over three thousand points as well, and I
think she's doing well in the WNBA, but no one's
paying attention. And the point is that she was her
(48:24):
and Sabrina I and sq were at the same time
and the same part of the country kind of co
superstars and no one cared.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
So I think you take the super off though, right,
they were stars like within this little niche.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Right, Oh, can you be a superstar within that niche,
or you have to be a star because you don't
translate out of that.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
Superstar to me has to be transcendent.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
That's fine, that's fine. I'm okay. I actually agree with that,
and I'll take that. So they were stars, and I
think they're both really good WNBA players. I don't know.
I here's the question. Is she on the Olympic team?
Kevin Clark on the Olympic team? Do we know?
Speaker 5 (49:04):
Is she?
Speaker 4 (49:04):
Is she going to be yes?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
I don't think we officially know.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
But but she she will be correct. And then the
question becomes like, how does that all work. I'm gonna
say something that is everyone is going to know to
be true, and when we clip it up and we
put it on social media, people will freak out. I
do think the dynamic that she's a woman makes it
(49:28):
really really interesting because here's my experience, guys can get jealous.
Guys can't jealous guys, do you know, especially the younger generation,
somebody else is getting, you know, fame or clout or whatever. Like,
guys can't jealous. But it's not necessarily how all guys
(49:49):
are wired, and some of it we call jealousy competitiveness,
and really it could be deemed as jealousy. Women and
not all women, but professional type A ladies can still
be very catty, very catty. I've said this often, Like
I feel it's got to be a tough being a
(50:13):
woman in our industry, right because you're judged unfairly. So
like your sports knowledge may not be the level of
a guy, when you may be a far more accomplished athlete,
have far greater depth of resources and knowledge whatever, Like
you walk into a conversation and people instinctively think that
guys know more about sports than girls do. They just
(50:34):
do and and I'm admitting that's completely unfair. So it's
a really hard one. But the toughest room in broadcasting
is the makeup room when there's multiple ladies in there,
because as much as they compete against the guys, and
they're treated unfairly by perceptions like women are awful to
(50:56):
other women. They don't unite, they don't lock arm in
arm and champion others may on camera, behind the scenes,
they kill each other. And look, the Olympics are a
they're a platform for these athletes, women and men. The
basketball players use it as a platform, like Lebron James
(51:17):
and Kevin Durant and Steph Curry. They're not going out
of the goodness of their hearts. They're not going necessarily
to win. They're going because their brands are like, dude,
you gotta go. It's the world's biggest sporting event. You
be there, you promote, we sell a bunch of shoes.
Everybody's happy, right, it's a gigantic platform. And when everybody's
fighting for the attention and here's a woman who has
(51:40):
not or she will have played half of one season
when the Olympics start, I'm interested to see how the
other ladies treat her and if they're as caddy as
I think they'll be.
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