June 12, 2024 • 38 mins
In this week's version of "The Midway", Doug and the crew discuss the comments made by NFL Analyst Greg Olsen that analyzing NBA games is easier than NFL. Doug welcomes acclaimed sports author Roland Lazenby onto the show to talk about the life of Jerry West. Plus, Dan Beyer takes Doug through a Wednesday edition of "The Press".
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five
Easter twelve, two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
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with you, Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I hope
(00:22):
you're having a great day. We're having a good one here.
The Doug Gottlieb Show is broadcast live from the tyrat
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recommended sellars tirat dot com. So wait tire buying should
be were to get to the midway upcoming. Plus, we
got a fun discussion regarding Aaron Rodgers missing all of
Mini camp yesterday. We were told using me one day
(00:44):
now he told, it's all of Mini camp and we'll
have a special guest role in Lasbmbie who. He's the
claimed sports author. He wrote many books and especially about
the Lakers, including most notably for Today. Because Jerry West
passed away at eighty six, Jerry West the Life and
Legend of a basketball So all that is this hour
and a reminder. Right after the show you can download
(01:05):
the show. It's an entirety as a podcast and our
special podcast only hour. Just type in Doug Gottlieb wherever
you get podcasts, you'll get the Doug Gotlieb Show podcast.
But a bang, but a bang, but a boom. Before
we get to the midway, I'll quickly buyer. I think
you can appreciate this because you are incredibly well traveled,
and Jay Stu you will because you've worked with you
(01:29):
with booking guests for twenty five years and going back
to the Rome days, right, you get callers from all over.
I never forget. So when I got home from ABCD camp,
the big the two big camps when I was a
in high school were Nike All American Camp and uh
first it was Converse and then it was Adida's ABCD Camp.
(01:51):
And there used to be one camp called Nike ABCD
and it was in print at at the Universe at
Princeton and they would actually do school stuff in the
morning and teach you how to take the SAT and
you know how to prioritize your time and then the
afternoon you play. And then Sonny Vaccaro left Nike and
(02:11):
went first to Converse and then to Adidas, and he
took his brand ABCD with him, and then Nike started
the Nike All American Camp, which moved to Indianapolis. So
when I got home from ABCD camp before my senior year,
this was in Fairleigh Dickinson University, also known as Fairly
Ridiculous in t Neck, New Jersey, I kind of the
term as I blew up at the camp.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I had a really good camp, and I went from
a guy that I had like an offer from Florida
and Virginia to everyone offered me, including Jim Calhoun and
Yukon and Dave Hobbs was his assistant and coach Hobbs
is a great dude. He talked to me. He was like, hey, man,
we have we have Kevin Allie on the team right now.
Right he's a graduating senior. I think I think I
(02:54):
think Ko was a senior at that time. Maybe he'd
already graduated. I can't remember, but Ko had definitely had
was rep for incident. They had Deron Scheffer as well.
I think Ko had graduated and they had Deron Sheffer
and they're like, you can ask Ko about us and whatever.
I'm gonna put you on with Coach Calhoun. I get that.
(03:14):
I couldn't understand a word he said, not a word.
And I was like, uhh uh huh oh yeah, you
come out, you play put gott you know, I need
a point, got to rab a team like I have
no idea what he's talking about. Hey, thanks coach. And
then Dave how Was picked up the phone and he's like,
all right, so you know we like to bring it
out and a visit, you know, and whatever. I was like, okay,
(03:37):
thanks coach. Couldn't understand a word he said, But I
will tell you this. He's an awesome coach. And when
I called his games, the media guys would have a
bet on two things. Uh would he sub before the
first media timeout, which is four minutes? And who would
(03:59):
it be? And inevitably, Uh, it would happen like a
minute and a half into the game. He's somebody who started,
he got introduced to starting lineups, then he'd screw up
something he told him. Then out he would come. Couldn't
understand a word he said. In my first phone called
Coach Calhoun yeah, I did. Doug, Duke's being in the suburbs.
(04:21):
We're being in the city. So he's tell me, Duke Suburbs,
You'll never see anybody in a city where a Duke Jersey.
Let's get to the Midway. He's not getting the middle
with you.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
It's time for the Midworr.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
The Midworthy, The Midway, the Midworthy, the Midway, the Midworry.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Jay Stu, what's your idea for the Midway?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Here?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You want tough? This Greg Olsen thing right.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I woke up this morning. I woke up to a thread,
my thread, and I'm not talking about that that Facebook
version of Twitter that everyone said they were going to
go use and they never did and I don't even
know exists anymore.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Not they still it still exists, but it's all like
softcore and hardcore porn like it like, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Oh, then I need to check it out. So Twitter.
I woke up to a thread on Twitter from Doug Gottwig. Uh,
you had some time on your hands today. You were
passionate about this topic, so I figured let's talk about it.
You saw or heard Greg Olsen say something on a podcast.
I think we have what he said, Chris.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
They're not really getting like the play by play exactly
because it's happening so fast, right. They're they're flowing from
offense to defense, from transition to foul in bounds, baseline
out of bounds, They're they're flowing through so many different
situations in real time that they're only diving into like
the real, real specifics of a great baseline out of
bounds or a great side of bounds, or the strategy
(06:01):
at the end of the game of who to foul,
who to trap, how to get the ball out of
their hand, really in just like a handful of those moments,
and I find that super fascinating to like sit and
learn as just like a basketball fan, in football, it's
a start and stop. You know, one hundred and fifty times,
you know, one hundred and each team say has the
ball seventy times. There's seventy offensive plays, seventy defensive plays,
(06:22):
and then flips. So there's just a million different plays
that you have to be prepared to explain. If you're
not playing competitive tackle football, you're not playing football like
you're not doing it on the weekends, right, people are
just more accustomed to basketball and they're playing it. It's
just I just think it's more accessible people.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's just more.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Familiar with the ins and outs of it because more
people do it than they do play tackle football.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Okay, that's actually wrong, that's actually wrong. I believe my
belief is more people think they know football because most
guys play like I mean, look, people play basketball and
they still play it, but they don't play real basketball,
whereas they actually play real football, albeit at a much
lower level. Growing up played tackle youth football. I played
(07:10):
tackle football for eight years. Right now, everybody plays flags.
It's obviously very different, but you know, like growing up
who didn't play high school football or junior high football.
I would say a higher percentage played than basketball, just
based on sure numbers, but the idea that, ah, you know,
they're just they're just commenting on plays, like, look, the
(07:32):
rhythm of it is different. But okay, so here's the
what's the do you want the could he do both?
Could a football guy do basketball? What's harder to do?
What do you want the topic to be?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Ja stut, I want the topic to be what what
made you most interested to write a thread about this?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Uh? Yeah, it's just it's really amazing. What Greg doesn't know,
considering how much he knows about broadcasting football, all right,
that would be my It's what he got into is
the rhythm of football is different, but it's I mean,
(08:11):
I've I haven't done both, but I've done both. So
I got there's a company called Compass Media Networks. They're awesome,
and I got to call a couple of games and
play by play, and I can tell you unequivckally, I've
done play by play for basketball. I'm a color analyst
for basketball, but I've done play by play. Football is
way easier NFL football, especially because you only really have
(08:33):
at that time forty six guys, right, and you know,
you call down distance and formation and kind of all
you gotta know is the skill position players. It's a
lot more exciting that's in play by play. And then
with analysis, you're having a play and then a break,
and then a play and then a break. So the
(08:54):
rhythm is very different. What I think he got to
was basketball you don't analyze every play. You have to
pick and choose your spots. It's kind of an art.
But the idea that he could in any way provide
any sort of insights kind of lappable, kind of laughable,
(09:16):
and it's super arrogant. That's how it landed on me.
What about you? What about you, Dan Dan Byer? What
do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, I agree with you, Like there's there's a major
difference between being able to do two things and to
be able to do two things well. And yeah, Greg
Olsen could get through an NBA game. Would we have
learned anything, would we have done anything or you know,
have taken anything away from it? I would say probably not,
(09:45):
Probably not in that in that realm, but because there's
just a huge difference of doing things and actually doing
things well. The one thing that I would say on
his part comparing being an analyst to football and basketball,
which by the way, is not in comparison on why
football could do basketball. Football has so many different things
(10:06):
going on where basketball. I don't want to say that
you're following the ball a majority of the time, but
I think that you are, and if you're not, they're
very I think there are fewer instances where something off
the ball is the reason why the ball wins into
the basket. Is that fair, Doug? Would you say? And
whether it be it may not be just about the
(10:28):
shot or the dunk, could be about the pass, could
be about the pick, but very rarely does it not
have to do with how the basket was made or missed.
I think often, I.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Think ideally yes, And look, I'll fully admit there's plenty
of people who call NBA in college games that don't
don't tell you the why, They just tell you the what,
And yeah, that bar is pretty low, and I do
think a lot of people could do that.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And in the NFL, if you're just following the ball,
you're not seeing what's happening on the offensive line, you're
not seeing what's happening, you know, with the other maybe
three receivers that are on the route. That would make
it more difficult, I think in that essence to pick,
how am I going to analyze this? But by no
means doesn't mean that football can transition to basketball. It
(11:19):
just I don't believe that that's that's the case.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I don't think so either. I think one of the
things that Greg and I don't know if he I
know Greg a little bit and I like him a lot,
and I take him to be a really good dude,
a really good broadcaster, but he has had so many
people he praise on him. This one felt a little
bit like he's feeling himself. I get it that. No, no,
(11:43):
there's like one hundred plays in football, Like do you
have any possessions that are in the NBA now. Part
of it also comes from the reality that most guys
who do games football and basketball don't actually do it
very well. Like I think stan Van Gundy does a
great job. I don't always love his delivery, but he
picks up on an adjustment made here or there, A
(12:05):
substitution is made for a purpose. You know. It's like
you're watching and I think JJ does a good job.
Doris is I believe this. I think Doris is actually
better when she did college basketball men's college basketball, because
I feel like she doesn't want to extend herself to
(12:26):
be wrong, like she's she's kind of a conservative version
of herself. Doris is really good. She does see the
entire game. She's a little dry for my taste, and
she actually has a good personality. But again, I think
that she's just a little close to the vest because
of the magnitude of the event, where I don't believe
(12:48):
in that style. I'm just who you are, That's how
you got the job. But again that's probably what's allowed
her to climb faster than I could climb. But the
point is that I do think that one thing we
would all it is there are plenty of people doing it,
and I don't think Greg is one of these people
that aren't very good at it. And so those people,
(13:08):
that's not a high bar to get to. And those people, Dan,
tell me if you like this, those people are commentators,
they make comments. Yeah, I'm talking about analysts and people
who teach me something or show me what I missed
as to why something worked.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yes, yes, I am good with that. And it's why
the play by play is a different skill set. Yes,
why Kevin Harlan and Ein Eagle can go and do
football and basketball and do all those things because it
is a different skill set and what you need to
know and how you need to present that information.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Now equally equally And here's the inside the Beltway. And
maybe this is too much for people. Maybe you don't care.
Play by play is different than analysis, right, Radio is
different than TV. Right. When you do radio, that is
a play by play man's game. You just get in
when you can just little nuggets, little lines. It is
(14:03):
not your show. Now as an analyst, it is your show.
But you can't and I told this to Dan Orlovsky,
you can't show off every play like dani Rolofsky literally
could diagram and draw every single play and tell you what, why, how,
what went wrong, what went right. All those guys can,
the really really good ones, can tell you all of
(14:24):
that stuff, and they can process it super fast, but
the viewer can't process it. It's too much information. So
you have to be much you have to have the
economy of words, and you have to pick and choose
your spots. And the same is true for basketball. Like
I could diagram every play, I could tell you exactly
what why they ran it, when they ran it, how
they ran it, et cetera, and what went right, what
went wrong. But if you do that for one hundred
(14:46):
and ten possessions, it's annoying and nobody will ever watch it.
So but I don't think people understand. There's as you
pointed out, there's difference in play by play and color,
there's a difference in radio at like, for example, if
you're calling a game on TV, you don't have to say,
as a play by play guy that the shot went in.
(15:07):
You know, and you don't have to reference the score
because there's a score bug right there. You just don't.
But that's where the the analyst, not the commentator. The
analyst's job is to tell you why. And it's really
hard when it's not your sport to tell somebody why somehow.
(15:28):
So that's what gotta be passionate about it today. Chase too.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Personally, I like the point you meant about Doris brook
by the way. I've never even thought about that, and
I think you're right. There's something there's no there there
with her and has nothing to do with her being
a woman. I think she is too conservative.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
That's very Listen, Doris real, Doris is funny as hell.
This is I'll give you the real story. So the day,
what was the Space Shuttle? Not the Challengers when we
were kids. What was the other one that blew up
over Texas Columbia?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Was that it?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, okay, she was calling a game that day. I
was getting ready to do a game and she was
calling Boston College. You can look it up in terms
of days when that happened. I believe that was like
the last Saturday of college basketball, because I think it
was Troy Bell's last game in the Big East. He
was the all time Big East ultime leans score. I
(16:23):
was watching the Boston College game and my guy who
hired me is a guy named Dan Steer at ESPN,
and Dan Steer would teach us all like tell me
the why, don't tell me the what. And I'm watching it.
I'd never heard of Doris Burke before, and I called
him and I said, Dan, who's the woman doing the
Boston College game. He's like, her name is Doris Burke.
(16:44):
She played a Providence I was like, she's fantastic, fantastic.
I was like, in terms of executing a broadcast, how
she executes the broadcast, when she gets in, when she
gets out, all of that stuff. What I've always thought
she's missed it is like a little personality, little there there.
But then you meet Doris and you're like, she's actually
(17:05):
very very funny. I just think that because she thinks
she's always being judged, especially now at this level, and
she's already made it. Like what's like the humor is
the personality off air does not match the personality on air.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I mean, before Chris jumps in, I do want to
say one other thing about Doris Burke. Because they made
such a big deal about her being the first woman
to call an NBA finals. I feel she's probably been
qualified to do that for the last five years, but
it's just for the chair to open up, you know,
in terms of you know, it was a great, great moment,
(17:41):
but it was done on the decisions of ESPN to
give that moment.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, it's fair, but would you, I mean, just honestly,
Mark Jackson and JVG or JJ Redick Endorsberg.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I am not a fan of Mark Jackson's analysis.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I'm not either, but it works with Jeff N. Gundy
and Mike Bring Sure, he's he's he's Kenny Smith, like
Kenny Smith left to his own kind of meanders, kind
of wanders around Kenny Smith with Barkley and Shack Gold
and I think and again I'm the same, Mama, don't
go debt man again, right, Like, it's great analysis, Mark,
(18:22):
but it really works. It worked with with Jeff Guy
in my opinion. In my opinion, So and that's the Midway.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
The Midway. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search
FSR to listen live.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Doug Gotlib Show Fox Sports Radio. Our next guest is
Roland Lasanbye, of course, is acclaimed sports author. He's written
many books about the Lakers, most notablately especially for today,
on the news of Jerry West passing Jerry West Life,
legend of a basketball icon and rolling Joy Just now
on the Doug Gottlib Show. What was your immediate reaction
when you heard the news?
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Oh, well, you know, my old man was one of
those two handed set shooters out of the hills of
southern West Virginia, Jerry. And this was back in the thirties,
and Jerry West was his favorite player. And after I
wrote the book on in for ESPN Books in two
thousand and nine, I went and laid it on my
(19:28):
old man's grave. So it was personal, very personal, and
then not personal because well, Jerry helped me quite a
bit over the years. It's not like we're great friends.
But I literally thought the guy would live forever. I
expected him to be one hundred sitting in Las Vegas
(19:50):
at summer leagues, just doing what he'd done since he
was a kid in West Virginia, and that's sit at
ball games and look at the athlete.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Rowlan Lasimi joins US acclaimed sports author. He's written many
books about the Lakers, especially Jerry West. The Life and
Legend of a basketball icon is why he's joining us today.
Complex guy, though, right, I mean, that's part of it is,
you know, an unbelievably accomplished athlete, and of course, you know,
(20:22):
in terms of just a basketball man. He coached the Lakers,
he helped build the Lakers, he evaluated players. Obviously an
all time great player, but outside of basketball, a complex guy,
was he not?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
Yes, you know Pat Williams, general manager of the Bulls
and the Sixers and then the Magic He talked to
me for my Magic Johnson book, as he has for
a couple of my other books, and Pats was talking
about the days when he was a young executive dealing
with Jerry West. And Pat's de scripture was Jerry West
(21:00):
surely the most complicated individual to ever walk the face
of this earth. He said, you know, you'd call Jerry
expecting to have a front office conversation. Jerry would pick
up the phone and he would go on right right
off the jump, to everything going on on the inside
(21:22):
with everybody's team in the league. Everything really going on
on the inside of You're a team, and you hadn't
even asked him or said a word to him yet,
and Jerry could just unload the truth like that in truckloads.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, really really, really, really interesting. He's also portrayed in
that show Winning Time on HBO as being kind of
angry and bitter. Granted this was in a time of
the early eighties. How accurate do you believe that portrayal was?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
You know, I when I did my book, Jerry's father
had been dead thirty some years, forty years, and his
family members knew he was bringing his book out, and
they knew that Jerry had very hard feelings about their father.
(22:22):
And they all talked to me because they didn't share
those same feelings, and they wanted a more nuanced view
of their father. And Jerry got furious with me, because
indeed his father was worthy of a nuanced view. But
you know, at the heart of this, Jerry was this
(22:46):
kid eleven, twelve, thirteen years old, scrawny little kid. His
mother was this insanely fierce perfectionist like pioneer women were.
And make no mistake, West Virginia in the nineteen forties
was still a pioneer state, and Jerry shared that intensely
(23:09):
perfectionist nature. And then when his older brother, David, who
was the adored child in the family, adored by the
whole family, when he got killed in combat and Korea.
As Charles, Jerry's older brother explained to me, Jerry's mother
(23:29):
and Jerry both had a nervous breakdown over the death
of David, and that was the thing that just sort
of propelled this entire intense package toward what it became.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And that really killed him, right, I mean, that justaled him.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Oh yes, and how he despised his father. Jerry wouldn't
eat and he developed scurvy. It was a ain't on
back then. And I'm from Southwest Virginia, right below the border,
my father from West Virginia, and those cultures were not
going to spare any of the rod They were going
(24:11):
to go right at a kid. And Jerry's father whipped him,
and Jerry would say, beat him over not eating, and
that was the seed of their hatred. And Jerry, you know,
then you take those circumstances and he goes to the
(24:32):
NCAA Championship game, and this is what Jerry explained to me,
he's got his hands on the ball. The times running out,
they're down a point. It is West Virginia versus Pete
Noule's cow team, and Jerry just can't get close enough
to get off a shot. And then here comes the
(24:54):
NBA and six times they go up against those Boston
Celtics of Bill Russell in the league championship series, and
all six times they lose. And then they go up
against the Knicks in seventy for a seventh time at
the title they lose again. They finally win in seventy two.
(25:15):
By then, there's no joy in it. There is all
this controversy with the Lakers and Jerry perfectionist. He was
just embraced all the torment and the misery of the moment,
looking for something that would jack him to the next
level to get what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
What was his passion like as an executive? Where'd that
come from?
Speaker 6 (25:45):
From the same burning fire, that perfectionism? You know, he
almost quit one night coaching in Boston with a loss.
But after games. You know, back in the seventy when
Kareem was there and the Lakers had given away most
of their talent and they had a chance to get
(26:07):
doctor Jay and Jack kim Cook wouldn't do it, and
that just drove Jerry West crazy. But the PR director
from those days explained to me he would be in
the locker room begging Jerry so many nights just to
come out and speak. Of the reporters in those days,
(26:27):
they either wanted to talk to Kareem or to Jerry West,
and they didn't give a crap about talking to anybody else.
And there he got Kareem, you got a chisel words
out of him. And Jerry, with all of this anger
and torment and his perfectionist nature and how hard he
(26:48):
was on himself and on his certain players, it was
quite a nasty mix. And so he had Bill Sharmon,
his old coach from so Is the top dog executive
with the Lakers, and when Jerry Buss bought him, the
(27:08):
guy that Jerry West absolutely hated, Jack kN Cook, disappeared
from the scene and Bill Sharmon's voice was gone by then.
He was happy for Jerry to come along and work
on things as an assistant GM and it was like
Jerry was paroled. No more misery coaching that team. He
(27:30):
didn't have to he didn't have to necessarily answer a
lot of questions, and it was where he could put himself.
He could become a mentor. Now that didn't mean he
still didn't make a good run at you know, the
bat Cave crazy. He still had all of those inclinations,
(27:51):
He still had all the things that drove his perfectionism
and his mani in the first place. But he really
did understand players, He really really really understood the game.
And he had a reverence. He was the logo. He
had a reverence like no other executive in NBA history,
(28:16):
probably not even read Hour Back. He had a reverence.
Maybe read hour back. He had a reverence that nobody
else enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
If you were to Roland lasbanbie join Us wrote the
book on Jerry West, as well as many other books
on the Lakers. Last thing, Roland, if you were to
explain to my son's fifteen years old, and he knows
Jerry West was a great player, he knows he's the logo.
How did you surmise the man who passed away today?
Speaker 6 (28:47):
Just an incredibly determined, very gifted athlete, a guy who
before we had pace in space, just knew how to
play in the flow of a game. And this from
John Radcliffe who was their scorekeeper. These are the things
(29:10):
John Radcliffe, who was a scorekeeper for more than thirty
years from the Lakers, a coach himself who watched courtside,
and just I mean constantly overwhelmed by the talent and
ability of Jerry West to push the agenda even more
than that, to want the agenda.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Rolland I know it's been a tough day. Your book
is magnificent. I hope more people pick it up than
ever have before because Jerry West, a life and legend
of a basketball icon, is exceptionally well written in researched.
I encourage everybody to go pick it up. Thanks so
much for joining us on a tough day the passing
of Jerry West.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
Thank you, Doug. Always great to visit.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
The feeling is mutual. Coming up with the Doug Otleyfield
lifeinthtyright dot Com Studios on the heels of the US Open.
Could the game of golf be changing sooner rather than later?
That's next.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Oh Oh Oh, Fox Sports Radio. Shortly
after the show our podcast be going up. You've been
saying today's show. Be sure to check out all the podcasts.
Just search Doug Gottlieber via Get your Podcasts and follow
rate Review again search Doug gotliber you get your podcast.
(30:30):
You'll see today's show posted right after we get off
the air. Let's get to the press, the press, Dan Bayer,
what do you got.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
By Doug little housekeeping? The startup? Something we didn't get
to yesterday after Dan Hurley decided to that's how vac you? Yeah, yeah,
that's all right. You mentioned that you felt James Barrego
is likely going to be the Calves head coach. I
believe in passing. I don't want to put words in
your mouth, but that was I did.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And then I had somebody from the Calves Tech to
be like, oh hey, we got a couple other names there.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
But sure, of course of course they do.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, it's the other one guy. What am I forgettings
with the Warriors. But he's the Kenny as Kenny Atkinson.
Those are the two names.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yes. Well, the reason I bring it up is because
bet online has odds on who the next coach of
the Cavs is going to be, and these were from
yesterday and James Barrego right now plus one hundred, yes,
one to one shot, so they agree with me, yes,
that is that is correct, And in fact JJ redicks
Odd's were minus five hundred, yeah, one to five shot
(31:35):
that he'd be the next Lakers head coach, with Barrego
at three to one, Sam Cassell at nine to one,
and heat assistant Chris Quinn at sixteen to one to
be the next Lakers head coach.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Chris Quinne like a Riley protege, right, yeah, played a
Notre Dame okay.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
On a spolster's staff. Now Tylu was also by the
way at sixteen to one, but we don't expect that
to actually happen, all right, Now, getting onto other matters,
the US Open begins tomorrow at Pinehurst number two, a
magnificent course, as we talked about earlier this week.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well, what makes Pinehurst such a magnificent course.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I'm just well, the resort as itself is just neat.
They've just actually added a tenth course where you can
play if you wanted to. You could spend an entire
week there and still not play all the courses that
they have. If you played eighteen a day. But Pinehurst
number two is Donald Ross's the prized work, prized possession,
(32:36):
if you will, And a lot of the conversation is
about the greens, and one of Ross's tendencies as an
architect was to use crowned greens, turtleback greens, if you will,
upside down cereal bowls, however you want to look at it.
So these greens are not the ones that you would
play at your UNI or even at country clubs there.
(32:59):
The green may be one hundred percent putting green, but
you can only really land the ball at fifty percent
of the green otherwise it's gonna roll off, and it
just puts an ultimate test on your short game.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So it's not what the US Open used to be
accused of, which is tricking up things. It's it's just
based upon the design of the actual green.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yes, but some do think that the USGA brings it
a little too far at Pinehurst because of the amount
of area you can actually hit a shot to the green,
like if you're one hundred and fifty yards away, Yeah,
it looks like you have the whole green like you
would on any other course. And how many of us
are like, great, I'm on the green. Even if you're
eighty feet away, sure, but here you could be ten
(33:39):
feet away. But if you put it in the wrong spot,
it may roll off the green and then you can
watch it roll thirty yards away. And some feel that
it's tricked up to the point that good shots are
not rewarded. And so John Day, when it first went
there in nineteen ninety nine, had the infamous the ball
was rolling back to his feet, so he just walked
up the hill and smacked it across the green with
(34:01):
this putter on the eighth hole, which will play as
a par four this week. But the big news coming
from today's events at Pinehurst in advance of yesterday tomorrow's
first round, is that Mike Wan, the CEO of the USGA,
admitted that they're going to talk this offseason on trying
to possibly find a pathway for live golfers to access
(34:23):
the US Open. This was the exact quote quote quote
whether or not there needs to be a path to
somebody or somebodies that are performing really well on live
that can get a chance to play in that way,
I think we are serious about that end quote. Now,
the issue at hand is this, Doug, if you are
good enough you can play in the US Open, you
(34:43):
just have to go through qualifying. Well, there are twelve
players that have qualified for the US Open on some
criteria or not. However, not all of them chose to
actually go to final qualifying and play in the event.
I say, my personal opinion that that's on them. However,
what the US Open is worried about is their event
being watered down if they don't have all of these
(35:05):
big names in the event, because the further and further
that you get away from world ranking points, the further
and further the top names are going to drop. So
in short, I know I was long there, but the
US Open may try to find ways to get live
golfers easier ways for them to access that championship.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I don't love it.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I think I don't either.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I think you just you just try and outlive live golf.
That's what I think you do.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
We could have a decision maybe as Tuesday. There were
reports yesterday that a framework agreement was put on paper
and agreed to, but maybe the news was being held
to not overshadow what was the USGA's week, so they
would wait till next week to maybe the announce that
the Athletic reports that to TNT maybe losing out on
the NBA, but they could be getting in on college basketball.
(35:52):
NBC and TNT will be getting in on Big East
basketball joining Fox Sports is that conferences provider coming up
in the twenty twenty five twenty twenty sixth season.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It's a brilliant move by the Big East, by the way,
and I think this is really triggered by Fox who
whatever else Fox Sports one is carrying. You know, they
haven't seen like a ratings boon from it, so they're
probably you know, going to sub license it and let
NBC that needs more product on on on Peacock and
let TNT that needs more reason to have inside the
(36:24):
NBA have more games. So works for all. I do
wonder what FS one is putting in its place.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Aaron Rodgers isn't working away from the team during mandatory
mini camp, the Athletic reports, and he's also going to
miss tomorrow's session. This was Jets head coach Robert Salah
earlier today.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
Aaron and I are on the exact same page.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
There's no issue between Aaron.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
Or his teammates for that matter.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It's more of an issue for everyone outside the building.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Than it is inside.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And that's about it.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Why was it an inexcused absence if there's no no issue.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, it's good. It's a good question.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You know. Well, at the same but it's an inexcuse absence.
We're on the same we're on the same page that
it is an excuse.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
It does open up the question in the last twenty
four hours is it inexcused or unexcused? Because I've seen
it written unexcused. I've always said unexcused. I think it's
supposed to be inexcused because you say inexcusable.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Right, we do say that, But an unexcused absence sounds better,
I believe, by the way, what a guy, you know
at least, Yeah, this is this change your love affair
of Aaron Rodgers anymore, Doug has changed anything?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Uh yeah, I've I've moved off my love affair.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I mean this is just one of those things, like
you know, last year he was mister New York and
I'm at the knixt game and I'm here and I'm
there and the teammate now it's like yeah, whatever, it's
like whatever, you know, let me know when training camp starts,
he'll be there.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
They go to, and that's the press that you get
out there and pressed.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
That was the press.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
The important note is when you're coming off a year
like Aaron Rodgers, which you know, four disastrous plays, when
are you coming off of? When are you coming off
of that? Then? Who cares? Right? By the way, download
the podcast, it's really good. Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Oh,
by the way, I get the MAVs tonight win cover
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five
Easter twelve, two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
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Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
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with you, Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I hope
(00:22):
you're having a great day. We're having a good one here.
The Doug Gottlieb Show is broadcast live from the tyrat
dot com studios. Tyrat dot com on match selection, fast
free shipping, free road has protection of our tent tasks
recommended sellars tirat dot com. So wait tire buying should
be were to get to the midway upcoming. Plus, we
got a fun discussion regarding Aaron Rodgers missing all of
Mini camp yesterday. We were told using me one day
(00:44):
now he told, it's all of Mini camp and we'll
have a special guest role in Lasbmbie who. He's the
claimed sports author. He wrote many books and especially about
the Lakers, including most notably for Today. Because Jerry West
passed away at eighty six, Jerry West the Life and
Legend of a basketball So all that is this hour
and a reminder. Right after the show you can download
(01:05):
the show. It's an entirety as a podcast and our
special podcast only hour. Just type in Doug Gottlieb wherever
you get podcasts, you'll get the Doug Gotlieb Show podcast.
But a bang, but a bang, but a boom. Before
we get to the midway, I'll quickly buyer. I think
you can appreciate this because you are incredibly well traveled,
and Jay Stu you will because you've worked with you
(01:29):
with booking guests for twenty five years and going back
to the Rome days, right, you get callers from all over.
I never forget. So when I got home from ABCD camp,
the big the two big camps when I was a
in high school were Nike All American Camp and uh
first it was Converse and then it was Adida's ABCD Camp.
(01:51):
And there used to be one camp called Nike ABCD
and it was in print at at the Universe at
Princeton and they would actually do school stuff in the
morning and teach you how to take the SAT and
you know how to prioritize your time and then the
afternoon you play. And then Sonny Vaccaro left Nike and
(02:11):
went first to Converse and then to Adidas, and he
took his brand ABCD with him, and then Nike started
the Nike All American Camp, which moved to Indianapolis. So
when I got home from ABCD camp before my senior year,
this was in Fairleigh Dickinson University, also known as Fairly
Ridiculous in t Neck, New Jersey, I kind of the
term as I blew up at the camp.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I had a really good camp, and I went from
a guy that I had like an offer from Florida
and Virginia to everyone offered me, including Jim Calhoun and
Yukon and Dave Hobbs was his assistant and coach Hobbs
is a great dude. He talked to me. He was like, hey, man,
we have we have Kevin Allie on the team right now.
Right he's a graduating senior. I think I think I
(02:54):
think Ko was a senior at that time. Maybe he'd
already graduated. I can't remember, but Ko had definitely had
was rep for incident. They had Deron Scheffer as well.
I think Ko had graduated and they had Deron Sheffer
and they're like, you can ask Ko about us and whatever.
I'm gonna put you on with Coach Calhoun. I get that.
(03:14):
I couldn't understand a word he said, not a word.
And I was like, uhh uh huh oh yeah, you
come out, you play put gott you know, I need
a point, got to rab a team like I have
no idea what he's talking about. Hey, thanks coach. And
then Dave how Was picked up the phone and he's like,
all right, so you know we like to bring it
out and a visit, you know, and whatever. I was like, okay,
(03:37):
thanks coach. Couldn't understand a word he said, But I
will tell you this. He's an awesome coach. And when
I called his games, the media guys would have a
bet on two things. Uh would he sub before the
first media timeout, which is four minutes? And who would
(03:59):
it be? And inevitably, Uh, it would happen like a
minute and a half into the game. He's somebody who started,
he got introduced to starting lineups, then he'd screw up
something he told him. Then out he would come. Couldn't
understand a word he said. In my first phone called
Coach Calhoun yeah, I did. Doug, Duke's being in the suburbs.
(04:21):
We're being in the city. So he's tell me, Duke Suburbs,
You'll never see anybody in a city where a Duke Jersey.
Let's get to the Midway. He's not getting the middle
with you.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
It's time for the Midworr.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
The Midworthy, The Midway, the Midworthy, the Midway, the Midworry.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Jay Stu, what's your idea for the Midway?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Here?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You want tough? This Greg Olsen thing right.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I woke up this morning. I woke up to a thread,
my thread, and I'm not talking about that that Facebook
version of Twitter that everyone said they were going to
go use and they never did and I don't even
know exists anymore.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Not they still it still exists, but it's all like
softcore and hardcore porn like it like, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Oh, then I need to check it out. So Twitter.
I woke up to a thread on Twitter from Doug Gottwig. Uh,
you had some time on your hands today. You were
passionate about this topic, so I figured let's talk about it.
You saw or heard Greg Olsen say something on a podcast.
I think we have what he said, Chris.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
They're not really getting like the play by play exactly
because it's happening so fast, right. They're they're flowing from
offense to defense, from transition to foul in bounds, baseline
out of bounds, They're they're flowing through so many different
situations in real time that they're only diving into like
the real, real specifics of a great baseline out of
bounds or a great side of bounds, or the strategy
(06:01):
at the end of the game of who to foul,
who to trap, how to get the ball out of
their hand, really in just like a handful of those moments,
and I find that super fascinating to like sit and
learn as just like a basketball fan, in football, it's
a start and stop. You know, one hundred and fifty times,
you know, one hundred and each team say has the
ball seventy times. There's seventy offensive plays, seventy defensive plays,
(06:22):
and then flips. So there's just a million different plays
that you have to be prepared to explain. If you're
not playing competitive tackle football, you're not playing football like
you're not doing it on the weekends, right, people are
just more accustomed to basketball and they're playing it. It's
just I just think it's more accessible people.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's just more.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Familiar with the ins and outs of it because more
people do it than they do play tackle football.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Okay, that's actually wrong, that's actually wrong. I believe my
belief is more people think they know football because most
guys play like I mean, look, people play basketball and
they still play it, but they don't play real basketball,
whereas they actually play real football, albeit at a much
lower level. Growing up played tackle youth football. I played
(07:10):
tackle football for eight years. Right now, everybody plays flags.
It's obviously very different, but you know, like growing up
who didn't play high school football or junior high football.
I would say a higher percentage played than basketball, just
based on sure numbers, but the idea that, ah, you know,
they're just they're just commenting on plays, like, look, the
(07:32):
rhythm of it is different. But okay, so here's the
what's the do you want the could he do both?
Could a football guy do basketball? What's harder to do?
What do you want the topic to be?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Ja stut, I want the topic to be what what
made you most interested to write a thread about this?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Uh? Yeah, it's just it's really amazing. What Greg doesn't know,
considering how much he knows about broadcasting football, all right,
that would be my It's what he got into is
the rhythm of football is different, but it's I mean,
(08:11):
I've I haven't done both, but I've done both. So
I got there's a company called Compass Media Networks. They're awesome,
and I got to call a couple of games and
play by play, and I can tell you unequivckally, I've
done play by play for basketball. I'm a color analyst
for basketball, but I've done play by play. Football is
way easier NFL football, especially because you only really have
(08:33):
at that time forty six guys, right, and you know,
you call down distance and formation and kind of all
you gotta know is the skill position players. It's a
lot more exciting that's in play by play. And then
with analysis, you're having a play and then a break,
and then a play and then a break. So the
(08:54):
rhythm is very different. What I think he got to
was basketball you don't analyze every play. You have to
pick and choose your spots. It's kind of an art.
But the idea that he could in any way provide
any sort of insights kind of lappable, kind of laughable,
(09:16):
and it's super arrogant. That's how it landed on me.
What about you? What about you, Dan Dan Byer? What
do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, I agree with you, Like there's there's a major
difference between being able to do two things and to
be able to do two things well. And yeah, Greg
Olsen could get through an NBA game. Would we have
learned anything, would we have done anything or you know,
have taken anything away from it? I would say probably not,
(09:45):
Probably not in that in that realm, but because there's
just a huge difference of doing things and actually doing
things well. The one thing that I would say on
his part comparing being an analyst to football and basketball,
which by the way, is not in comparison on why
football could do basketball. Football has so many different things
(10:06):
going on where basketball. I don't want to say that
you're following the ball a majority of the time, but
I think that you are, and if you're not, they're
very I think there are fewer instances where something off
the ball is the reason why the ball wins into
the basket. Is that fair, Doug? Would you say? And
whether it be it may not be just about the
(10:28):
shot or the dunk, could be about the pass, could
be about the pick, but very rarely does it not
have to do with how the basket was made or missed.
I think often, I.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Think ideally yes, And look, I'll fully admit there's plenty
of people who call NBA in college games that don't
don't tell you the why, They just tell you the what,
And yeah, that bar is pretty low, and I do
think a lot of people could do that.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And in the NFL, if you're just following the ball,
you're not seeing what's happening on the offensive line, you're
not seeing what's happening, you know, with the other maybe
three receivers that are on the route. That would make
it more difficult, I think in that essence to pick,
how am I going to analyze this? But by no
means doesn't mean that football can transition to basketball. It
(11:19):
just I don't believe that that's that's the case.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I don't think so either. I think one of the
things that Greg and I don't know if he I
know Greg a little bit and I like him a lot,
and I take him to be a really good dude,
a really good broadcaster, but he has had so many
people he praise on him. This one felt a little
bit like he's feeling himself. I get it that. No, no,
(11:43):
there's like one hundred plays in football, Like do you
have any possessions that are in the NBA now. Part
of it also comes from the reality that most guys
who do games football and basketball don't actually do it
very well. Like I think stan Van Gundy does a
great job. I don't always love his delivery, but he
picks up on an adjustment made here or there, A
(12:05):
substitution is made for a purpose. You know. It's like
you're watching and I think JJ does a good job.
Doris is I believe this. I think Doris is actually
better when she did college basketball men's college basketball, because
I feel like she doesn't want to extend herself to
(12:26):
be wrong, like she's she's kind of a conservative version
of herself. Doris is really good. She does see the
entire game. She's a little dry for my taste, and
she actually has a good personality. But again, I think
that she's just a little close to the vest because
of the magnitude of the event, where I don't believe
(12:48):
in that style. I'm just who you are, That's how
you got the job. But again that's probably what's allowed
her to climb faster than I could climb. But the
point is that I do think that one thing we
would all it is there are plenty of people doing it,
and I don't think Greg is one of these people
that aren't very good at it. And so those people,
(13:08):
that's not a high bar to get to. And those people, Dan,
tell me if you like this, those people are commentators,
they make comments. Yeah, I'm talking about analysts and people
who teach me something or show me what I missed
as to why something worked.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yes, yes, I am good with that. And it's why
the play by play is a different skill set. Yes,
why Kevin Harlan and Ein Eagle can go and do
football and basketball and do all those things because it
is a different skill set and what you need to
know and how you need to present that information.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Now equally equally And here's the inside the Beltway. And
maybe this is too much for people. Maybe you don't care.
Play by play is different than analysis, right, Radio is
different than TV. Right. When you do radio, that is
a play by play man's game. You just get in
when you can just little nuggets, little lines. It is
(14:03):
not your show. Now as an analyst, it is your show.
But you can't and I told this to Dan Orlovsky,
you can't show off every play like dani Rolofsky literally
could diagram and draw every single play and tell you what, why, how,
what went wrong, what went right. All those guys can,
the really really good ones, can tell you all of
(14:24):
that stuff, and they can process it super fast, but
the viewer can't process it. It's too much information. So
you have to be much you have to have the
economy of words, and you have to pick and choose
your spots. And the same is true for basketball. Like
I could diagram every play, I could tell you exactly
what why they ran it, when they ran it, how
they ran it, et cetera, and what went right, what
went wrong. But if you do that for one hundred
(14:46):
and ten possessions, it's annoying and nobody will ever watch it.
So but I don't think people understand. There's as you
pointed out, there's difference in play by play and color,
there's a difference in radio at like, for example, if
you're calling a game on TV, you don't have to say,
as a play by play guy that the shot went in.
(15:07):
You know, and you don't have to reference the score
because there's a score bug right there. You just don't.
But that's where the the analyst, not the commentator. The
analyst's job is to tell you why. And it's really
hard when it's not your sport to tell somebody why somehow.
(15:28):
So that's what gotta be passionate about it today. Chase too.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Personally, I like the point you meant about Doris brook
by the way. I've never even thought about that, and
I think you're right. There's something there's no there there
with her and has nothing to do with her being
a woman. I think she is too conservative.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
That's very Listen, Doris real, Doris is funny as hell.
This is I'll give you the real story. So the day,
what was the Space Shuttle? Not the Challengers when we
were kids. What was the other one that blew up
over Texas Columbia?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Was that it?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, okay, she was calling a game that day. I
was getting ready to do a game and she was
calling Boston College. You can look it up in terms
of days when that happened. I believe that was like
the last Saturday of college basketball, because I think it
was Troy Bell's last game in the Big East. He
was the all time Big East ultime leans score. I
(16:23):
was watching the Boston College game and my guy who
hired me is a guy named Dan Steer at ESPN,
and Dan Steer would teach us all like tell me
the why, don't tell me the what. And I'm watching it.
I'd never heard of Doris Burke before, and I called
him and I said, Dan, who's the woman doing the
Boston College game. He's like, her name is Doris Burke.
(16:44):
She played a Providence I was like, she's fantastic, fantastic.
I was like, in terms of executing a broadcast, how
she executes the broadcast, when she gets in, when she
gets out, all of that stuff. What I've always thought
she's missed it is like a little personality, little there there.
But then you meet Doris and you're like, she's actually
(17:05):
very very funny. I just think that because she thinks
she's always being judged, especially now at this level, and
she's already made it. Like what's like the humor is
the personality off air does not match the personality on air.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I mean, before Chris jumps in, I do want to
say one other thing about Doris Burke. Because they made
such a big deal about her being the first woman
to call an NBA finals. I feel she's probably been
qualified to do that for the last five years, but
it's just for the chair to open up, you know,
in terms of you know, it was a great, great moment,
(17:41):
but it was done on the decisions of ESPN to
give that moment.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, it's fair, but would you, I mean, just honestly,
Mark Jackson and JVG or JJ Redick Endorsberg.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I am not a fan of Mark Jackson's analysis.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I'm not either, but it works with Jeff N. Gundy
and Mike Bring Sure, he's he's he's Kenny Smith, like
Kenny Smith left to his own kind of meanders, kind
of wanders around Kenny Smith with Barkley and Shack Gold
and I think and again I'm the same, Mama, don't
go debt man again, right, Like, it's great analysis, Mark,
(18:22):
but it really works. It worked with with Jeff Guy
in my opinion. In my opinion, So and that's the Midway.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
The Midway. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search
FSR to listen live.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Doug Gotlib Show Fox Sports Radio. Our next guest is
Roland Lasanbye, of course, is acclaimed sports author. He's written
many books about the Lakers, most notablately especially for today,
on the news of Jerry West passing Jerry West Life,
legend of a basketball icon and rolling Joy Just now
on the Doug Gottlib Show. What was your immediate reaction
when you heard the news?
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Oh, well, you know, my old man was one of
those two handed set shooters out of the hills of
southern West Virginia, Jerry. And this was back in the thirties,
and Jerry West was his favorite player. And after I
wrote the book on in for ESPN Books in two
thousand and nine, I went and laid it on my
(19:28):
old man's grave. So it was personal, very personal, and
then not personal because well, Jerry helped me quite a
bit over the years. It's not like we're great friends.
But I literally thought the guy would live forever. I
expected him to be one hundred sitting in Las Vegas
(19:50):
at summer leagues, just doing what he'd done since he
was a kid in West Virginia, and that's sit at
ball games and look at the athlete.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Rowlan Lasimi joins US acclaimed sports author. He's written many
books about the Lakers, especially Jerry West. The Life and
Legend of a basketball icon is why he's joining us today.
Complex guy, though, right, I mean, that's part of it is,
you know, an unbelievably accomplished athlete, and of course, you know,
(20:22):
in terms of just a basketball man. He coached the Lakers,
he helped build the Lakers, he evaluated players. Obviously an
all time great player, but outside of basketball, a complex guy,
was he not?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
Yes, you know Pat Williams, general manager of the Bulls
and the Sixers and then the Magic He talked to
me for my Magic Johnson book, as he has for
a couple of my other books, and Pats was talking
about the days when he was a young executive dealing
with Jerry West. And Pat's de scripture was Jerry West
(21:00):
surely the most complicated individual to ever walk the face
of this earth. He said, you know, you'd call Jerry
expecting to have a front office conversation. Jerry would pick
up the phone and he would go on right right
off the jump, to everything going on on the inside
(21:22):
with everybody's team in the league. Everything really going on
on the inside of You're a team, and you hadn't
even asked him or said a word to him yet,
and Jerry could just unload the truth like that in truckloads.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, really really, really, really interesting. He's also portrayed in
that show Winning Time on HBO as being kind of
angry and bitter. Granted this was in a time of
the early eighties. How accurate do you believe that portrayal was?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
You know, I when I did my book, Jerry's father
had been dead thirty some years, forty years, and his
family members knew he was bringing his book out, and
they knew that Jerry had very hard feelings about their father.
(22:22):
And they all talked to me because they didn't share
those same feelings, and they wanted a more nuanced view
of their father. And Jerry got furious with me, because
indeed his father was worthy of a nuanced view. But
you know, at the heart of this, Jerry was this
(22:46):
kid eleven, twelve, thirteen years old, scrawny little kid. His
mother was this insanely fierce perfectionist like pioneer women were.
And make no mistake, West Virginia in the nineteen forties
was still a pioneer state, and Jerry shared that intensely
(23:09):
perfectionist nature. And then when his older brother, David, who
was the adored child in the family, adored by the
whole family, when he got killed in combat and Korea.
As Charles, Jerry's older brother explained to me, Jerry's mother
(23:29):
and Jerry both had a nervous breakdown over the death
of David, and that was the thing that just sort
of propelled this entire intense package toward what it became.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And that really killed him, right, I mean, that justaled him.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Oh yes, and how he despised his father. Jerry wouldn't
eat and he developed scurvy. It was a ain't on
back then. And I'm from Southwest Virginia, right below the border,
my father from West Virginia, and those cultures were not
going to spare any of the rod They were going
(24:11):
to go right at a kid. And Jerry's father whipped him,
and Jerry would say, beat him over not eating, and
that was the seed of their hatred. And Jerry, you know,
then you take those circumstances and he goes to the
(24:32):
NCAA Championship game, and this is what Jerry explained to me,
he's got his hands on the ball. The times running out,
they're down a point. It is West Virginia versus Pete
Noule's cow team, and Jerry just can't get close enough
to get off a shot. And then here comes the
(24:54):
NBA and six times they go up against those Boston
Celtics of Bill Russell in the league championship series, and
all six times they lose. And then they go up
against the Knicks in seventy for a seventh time at
the title they lose again. They finally win in seventy two.
(25:15):
By then, there's no joy in it. There is all
this controversy with the Lakers and Jerry perfectionist. He was
just embraced all the torment and the misery of the moment,
looking for something that would jack him to the next
level to get what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
What was his passion like as an executive? Where'd that
come from?
Speaker 6 (25:45):
From the same burning fire, that perfectionism? You know, he
almost quit one night coaching in Boston with a loss.
But after games. You know, back in the seventy when
Kareem was there and the Lakers had given away most
of their talent and they had a chance to get
(26:07):
doctor Jay and Jack kim Cook wouldn't do it, and
that just drove Jerry West crazy. But the PR director
from those days explained to me he would be in
the locker room begging Jerry so many nights just to
come out and speak. Of the reporters in those days,
(26:27):
they either wanted to talk to Kareem or to Jerry West,
and they didn't give a crap about talking to anybody else.
And there he got Kareem, you got a chisel words
out of him. And Jerry, with all of this anger
and torment and his perfectionist nature and how hard he
(26:48):
was on himself and on his certain players, it was
quite a nasty mix. And so he had Bill Sharmon,
his old coach from so Is the top dog executive
with the Lakers, and when Jerry Buss bought him, the
(27:08):
guy that Jerry West absolutely hated, Jack kN Cook, disappeared
from the scene and Bill Sharmon's voice was gone by then.
He was happy for Jerry to come along and work
on things as an assistant GM and it was like
Jerry was paroled. No more misery coaching that team. He
(27:30):
didn't have to he didn't have to necessarily answer a
lot of questions, and it was where he could put himself.
He could become a mentor. Now that didn't mean he
still didn't make a good run at you know, the
bat Cave crazy. He still had all of those inclinations,
(27:51):
He still had all the things that drove his perfectionism
and his mani in the first place. But he really
did understand players, He really really really understood the game.
And he had a reverence. He was the logo. He
had a reverence like no other executive in NBA history,
(28:16):
probably not even read Hour Back. He had a reverence.
Maybe read hour back. He had a reverence that nobody
else enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
If you were to Roland lasbanbie join Us wrote the
book on Jerry West, as well as many other books
on the Lakers. Last thing, Roland, if you were to
explain to my son's fifteen years old, and he knows
Jerry West was a great player, he knows he's the logo.
How did you surmise the man who passed away today?
Speaker 6 (28:47):
Just an incredibly determined, very gifted athlete, a guy who
before we had pace in space, just knew how to
play in the flow of a game. And this from
John Radcliffe who was their scorekeeper. These are the things
(29:10):
John Radcliffe, who was a scorekeeper for more than thirty
years from the Lakers, a coach himself who watched courtside,
and just I mean constantly overwhelmed by the talent and
ability of Jerry West to push the agenda even more
than that, to want the agenda.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Rolland I know it's been a tough day. Your book
is magnificent. I hope more people pick it up than
ever have before because Jerry West, a life and legend
of a basketball icon, is exceptionally well written in researched.
I encourage everybody to go pick it up. Thanks so
much for joining us on a tough day the passing
of Jerry West.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
Thank you, Doug. Always great to visit.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
The feeling is mutual. Coming up with the Doug Otleyfield
lifeinthtyright dot Com Studios on the heels of the US Open.
Could the game of golf be changing sooner rather than later?
That's next.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Oh Oh Oh, Fox Sports Radio. Shortly
after the show our podcast be going up. You've been
saying today's show. Be sure to check out all the podcasts.
Just search Doug Gottlieber via Get your Podcasts and follow
rate Review again search Doug gotliber you get your podcast.
(30:30):
You'll see today's show posted right after we get off
the air. Let's get to the press, the press, Dan Bayer,
what do you got.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
By Doug little housekeeping? The startup? Something we didn't get
to yesterday after Dan Hurley decided to that's how vac you? Yeah, yeah,
that's all right. You mentioned that you felt James Barrego
is likely going to be the Calves head coach. I
believe in passing. I don't want to put words in
your mouth, but that was I did.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And then I had somebody from the Calves Tech to
be like, oh hey, we got a couple other names there.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
But sure, of course of course they do.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, it's the other one guy. What am I forgettings
with the Warriors. But he's the Kenny as Kenny Atkinson.
Those are the two names.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yes. Well, the reason I bring it up is because
bet online has odds on who the next coach of
the Cavs is going to be, and these were from
yesterday and James Barrego right now plus one hundred, yes,
one to one shot, so they agree with me, yes,
that is that is correct, And in fact JJ redicks
Odd's were minus five hundred, yeah, one to five shot
(31:35):
that he'd be the next Lakers head coach, with Barrego
at three to one, Sam Cassell at nine to one,
and heat assistant Chris Quinn at sixteen to one to
be the next Lakers head coach.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Chris Quinne like a Riley protege, right, yeah, played a
Notre Dame okay.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
On a spolster's staff. Now Tylu was also by the
way at sixteen to one, but we don't expect that
to actually happen, all right, Now, getting onto other matters,
the US Open begins tomorrow at Pinehurst number two, a
magnificent course, as we talked about earlier this week.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well, what makes Pinehurst such a magnificent course.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I'm just well, the resort as itself is just neat.
They've just actually added a tenth course where you can
play if you wanted to. You could spend an entire
week there and still not play all the courses that
they have. If you played eighteen a day. But Pinehurst
number two is Donald Ross's the prized work, prized possession,
(32:36):
if you will, And a lot of the conversation is
about the greens, and one of Ross's tendencies as an
architect was to use crowned greens, turtleback greens, if you will,
upside down cereal bowls, however you want to look at it.
So these greens are not the ones that you would
play at your UNI or even at country clubs there.
(32:59):
The green may be one hundred percent putting green, but
you can only really land the ball at fifty percent
of the green otherwise it's gonna roll off, and it
just puts an ultimate test on your short game.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So it's not what the US Open used to be
accused of, which is tricking up things. It's it's just
based upon the design of the actual green.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yes, but some do think that the USGA brings it
a little too far at Pinehurst because of the amount
of area you can actually hit a shot to the green,
like if you're one hundred and fifty yards away, Yeah,
it looks like you have the whole green like you
would on any other course. And how many of us
are like, great, I'm on the green. Even if you're
eighty feet away, sure, but here you could be ten
(33:39):
feet away. But if you put it in the wrong spot,
it may roll off the green and then you can
watch it roll thirty yards away. And some feel that
it's tricked up to the point that good shots are
not rewarded. And so John Day, when it first went
there in nineteen ninety nine, had the infamous the ball
was rolling back to his feet, so he just walked
up the hill and smacked it across the green with
(34:01):
this putter on the eighth hole, which will play as
a par four this week. But the big news coming
from today's events at Pinehurst in advance of yesterday tomorrow's
first round, is that Mike Wan, the CEO of the USGA,
admitted that they're going to talk this offseason on trying
to possibly find a pathway for live golfers to access
(34:23):
the US Open. This was the exact quote quote quote
whether or not there needs to be a path to
somebody or somebodies that are performing really well on live
that can get a chance to play in that way,
I think we are serious about that end quote. Now,
the issue at hand is this, Doug, if you are
good enough you can play in the US Open, you
(34:43):
just have to go through qualifying. Well, there are twelve
players that have qualified for the US Open on some
criteria or not. However, not all of them chose to
actually go to final qualifying and play in the event.
I say, my personal opinion that that's on them. However,
what the US Open is worried about is their event
being watered down if they don't have all of these
(35:05):
big names in the event, because the further and further
that you get away from world ranking points, the further
and further the top names are going to drop. So
in short, I know I was long there, but the
US Open may try to find ways to get live
golfers easier ways for them to access that championship.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I don't love it.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I think I don't either.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I think you just you just try and outlive live golf.
That's what I think you do.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
We could have a decision maybe as Tuesday. There were
reports yesterday that a framework agreement was put on paper
and agreed to, but maybe the news was being held
to not overshadow what was the USGA's week, so they
would wait till next week to maybe the announce that
the Athletic reports that to TNT maybe losing out on
the NBA, but they could be getting in on college basketball.
(35:52):
NBC and TNT will be getting in on Big East
basketball joining Fox Sports is that conferences provider coming up
in the twenty twenty five twenty twenty sixth season.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It's a brilliant move by the Big East, by the way,
and I think this is really triggered by Fox who
whatever else Fox Sports one is carrying. You know, they
haven't seen like a ratings boon from it, so they're
probably you know, going to sub license it and let
NBC that needs more product on on on Peacock and
let TNT that needs more reason to have inside the
(36:24):
NBA have more games. So works for all. I do
wonder what FS one is putting in its place.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Aaron Rodgers isn't working away from the team during mandatory
mini camp, the Athletic reports, and he's also going to
miss tomorrow's session. This was Jets head coach Robert Salah
earlier today.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
Aaron and I are on the exact same page.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
There's no issue between Aaron.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
Or his teammates for that matter.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It's more of an issue for everyone outside the building.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Than it is inside.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And that's about it.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Why was it an inexcused absence if there's no no issue.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, it's good. It's a good question.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You know. Well, at the same but it's an inexcuse absence.
We're on the same we're on the same page that
it is an excuse.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
It does open up the question in the last twenty
four hours is it inexcused or unexcused? Because I've seen
it written unexcused. I've always said unexcused. I think it's
supposed to be inexcused because you say inexcusable.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Right, we do say that, But an unexcused absence sounds better,
I believe, by the way, what a guy, you know
at least, Yeah, this is this change your love affair
of Aaron Rodgers anymore, Doug has changed anything?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Uh yeah, I've I've moved off my love affair.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I mean this is just one of those things, like
you know, last year he was mister New York and
I'm at the knixt game and I'm here and I'm
there and the teammate now it's like yeah, whatever, it's
like whatever, you know, let me know when training camp starts,
he'll be there.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
They go to, and that's the press that you get
out there and pressed.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
That was the press.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
The important note is when you're coming off a year
like Aaron Rodgers, which you know, four disastrous plays, when
are you coming off of? When are you coming off
of that? Then? Who cares? Right? By the way, download
the podcast, it's really good. Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Oh,
by the way, I get the MAVs tonight win cover
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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