July 23, 2024 • 37 mins
Doug talks about the comments made by Paul George about playing in L.A. Doug explains why Lebron James's game translates so well to international play. Doug welcomes PFF lead analyst Sam Monson to talk about PFF's recently released Top 50 players going into the 2024 season. Plus, Dan Beyer takes Doug through a game of "Rank 'Em".
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
By searching app as Talk Up.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
America Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio coming to you
from the tyright dot com studios tyrit dot com. What
we get there, unmatched selection, fast free shipping, free roadasm
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tire buying should be Hey, welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I hope you're doing well well. Thank you, Thank you
for the hand.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I appreciate that. That's really really nice of you. Got
a great show planned for you. We'll continue to keep
an eye on things down the street from me as
Jordan Love has not yet signed a contract extension, but
most people expect that to go down this week as
he's doing the sit in sit in you know where
he's there but not participating there is fine. We'll keep
(01:01):
you keep you updated on anything going on training camp wise.
Obviously we're getting ready for the Olympics, and I want
to talk about the national team, who yesterday survived yet again,
this time against the German national team. So before it
was South Sudan and everyone making fine and not everyone,
lots of dudes making fun of the team for nearly
(01:21):
losing to South Sudan. Now there seems to be a
trend with the struggles to be Germany, another team that
you know has NBA players, but no one thinks Germany
should challenge Team USA.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Why they did. We can get to all that upcoming.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I do want to start with with just one thing
before we get to something that I think is under
discussed in regards to Lebron James dominance, especially late in.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Games for USA basketball.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's this sound going around from Paul George on his
podcast talking about his time with the Clippers, and Paul said,
you know, hey, from the from the get go, he
was playing on the B team.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Take a listen.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Coming back to LA. That was home when I first
came back to LA.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
But it ain't.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It's not the same love because when I was in LA,
they like, man, you should have been a Laker. I here.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
It wasn't no like, oh, welcome to the Clippers.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Happy you had in LA, but you should have been
a Laker second team. I'm on the B teams. That's
how the vibe and the love felt.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean they're the Clippers.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Dan Byer's lived out here for over twenty years, right,
Jay Stu grew up, lived, born, raised everything in southern California. Obviously,
I was raised in California, and then I've come back
up until now living in Green Bay nine of the
last twelve years of my life. And previously that, from
the time I was six and a half until the
(02:54):
time I was nineteen, I lived in southern California.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And you can't say you're from LA.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
If.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
There's just a couple of dead giveaways, right, A couple
of dead giveaways. First is, if you call a freeway
by the freeway's name, you're not from LA. You call
a freeway by the freeway's name, you're not from LA. Now,
the opposite is true in New York. In New York,
(03:25):
everything's known by the name. Oh that's the Hudson River Parkway.
Oh that's the saw mill. There are numbers that coincide
with these things, but nobody in New York knows the
numbers in La. No one goes by the numbers. No
one goes by the names.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Everyone goes by the numbers.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So the first dead giveaway in that you're not really
from southern California is if you call a freeway by
the freeway's name. Oh, I was on the San Diego Freeway.
I don't even know what freeway is the San Diego Freeway.
I mean, I'm guessing it's the five. But no one
calls the five the San Diego Freeway. They call it
the five, call it the five. I think the second
(04:02):
thing is you understand the differences in areas. In areas
like Ventura County not LA. In an empire not LA,
Orange County not LA. They all have their own kind
of areas and things. And the last one is if
you don't know the Clippers are the B team, you know,
(04:24):
don't say you're from LA. And by the way, he's
from Lancaster, which is outside of Bakersfield.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It's not LA.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
And the surprise that he felt like he reacted to
tells you all you need to know, Like, really, did
you did you think this was a Clipper town? I mean,
even with the new arena which they displayed to everybody,
this weekend, and if you watch social media like this
is amazing, everyone I know walked away with the same thought,
that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Only one problem. The Clippers play.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
There all right, let's get to the NBA playoffs or
sent me plus the team USA playing in the in
the friendlies getting ready for Olympic basketball. Yesterday, they survived Germany,
got to be at one point game late. Germany took
some bad shots, missed a couple of them, Lebron James
(05:13):
a couple of gigantic shots, did miss two free throws,
and Team USA ends up getting to win.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
They continue to.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Wait on Kevin Durant to be healthy coming off of
the strained calf muscle.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And that's, by the way, what we're told it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Is the strained calf muscle, even though there's no rap
and he has gone through practices. Here's Paul Pierce on
Undisputed this morning talking about Lebron's play with USA basketball.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
You know, when you look at the regular season and
you like, oh man, it's next inline or Jason Tatum
is this, But when you see the collection come all
together and you watch Lebron man, he might be clearly
the best player still in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I mean, I don't know. I mean it just that
way watching this.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Time, No senous, you just punk shoot.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I don't look at the collection.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
So you why isn't nobody else doing this?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Okay, why is that stepping up?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
I want to see aunt Man or Tatum do this
a couple of games.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
But this is this is supposed.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
To be one of the young boys coming in and doing
this for them. Okay, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, so there's a couple of things. Paul's not wrong
in terms of end of game. Now, part of the
reason Lebron hit a wide open three at the end
of the game was Germany was daring him to shoot,
because the Germans they don't think most foreign teams don't
think Lebron is nearly as good a shooter as sometimes
reputation would have you believe in the NBA when he
(06:39):
missed two free throws there late, like the foreign teams
are still in the belief of like the San Antonio Spurs,
if you're gonna make a beach hip, make a beach
with a jump shot. The other part was the big
drive and finish he had was with his left hand,
and as anybody who's watched Lebron knows he likes to
drive to his right and to his left. He likes
to shoot that kind of weird sort of side step
(07:00):
that back pull up three.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He doesn't usually get to the basket.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
All of that being said, what I think most people
don't account for most people is the fact that this
is a very different game. And look, you have to
be big, you have to be able to make shots
over the top. The game is very physical, and there's
(07:27):
a reason that there's a reason that European teams are
able to hang with the far more athletic American players
in FIBA basketball. That's the way it's always been. And
so while you say shooting is valued from Steph Curry,
the problem with Steph is once he gets it and
he puts it on the floor, you can hand check,
(07:48):
and so Steph becomes can be marginalized little bit, and
then defensively they'll post them up.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Tatum dribbles too much, ant Man's too much mid range
and gets the hoop. It's just they don't have the
same lanes to the basket. And while Lebron is clearly
not one of the best player on his own team,
let alone one of the top ten players in the
NBA because he doesn't play both sides of the ball
in FOBA basketball, where you can take breaks, you can
(08:18):
play zone, you can be super physical in both offense
and defense if you know how to do it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
And then late in the game.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Older players just win and he doesn't have to play
big minutes because they have so many guys. So if
you want to say he's the best player at playing
Phoeba style basketball right now, the answer is yes. He
also has a supreme amount of confidence. They believe in him,
and those other guys don't really know how to react,
(08:45):
how to play, and it gives Lebron the chance to
take over.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I think most of that will change when Kevin Durant
comes back, and then KD becomes.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The go to score late.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Because Lebron still holds the ball too long and KD,
remember build this out in line Olympics, he was the guy.
But Paul Pierce is making the I think ill fated
assumption that what you see in Phoeba style basketball equates
to what we would see in the NBA, and that's
(09:17):
just not true.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
He is right right.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
This should be a time in which one of these
young guys steps up makes plays like WHOA. Jason Tatum
is the next great one, Anthony Edwards is the next
great one. But only Lebron has the confidence and the
strength to make these plays. But that doesn't mean that
in an NBA style game he's anywhere close to those players.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
It's a Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
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these these Rapid radios are awesome where kids are at
(10:26):
the walkie talkies would work for like one night. You'd
be like in your bed, if you had your brother
or you got a sleepover. Right, you'd make a you
make a fort in the living room, and the the
tech was terrible. You use them, and then it would
need new batteries. We would take like sixteen new batteries
and you just like ah right it was it worked
(10:47):
Christmas Eve or Christmas Day and then maybe one other time,
and then when you really needed it for a big sleepover,
it would never work again. Well, these things are way better,
So I have one. You guys did see the Brandon
Nyuk reported to Camps record a camp with the Niners.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's like, my nephew, Sawyer's here with.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Me and he was helping me prep for the show
and he's like, Brandon Yuk. We gotta talk about Brandon Yuk.
He's from northern California. I was like, why, Well, he
wants to trade, he wants a new deal. Okay, he's
under contract, so.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
He'll be there.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Just one of those things that if the Niners don't
want to trade him, there is no reason to trade
for or trade Brandon Nyuk now because no one is
in desperate need of a wide receiver who's not the
best wide receiver on their team and who wants a
gargantuan deal. Here's here's George Kittle, a Pro Bowl tight
(11:49):
end for the San Francisco forty nine ers, talking about
his teammate Brandon Ayuck.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
I love Brandon. He's a fantastic teammate.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
He does everything that you want him to do as
a wide receiver, including taking touchdowns for me once in
a while, which I'm totally okay with.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
But he's just.
Speaker 7 (12:02):
Such a dynamic receiver and he's just such a very
important part of our offense. So, yeah, skidding Brandon and
I you the money that he deserves is I hope,
nothing but the best for him. There's unfortunately, not much
that I can do to help out with that except
just cheer him on from the sidelines and hopefully we
figure something out because he's one of my favorite teammates
I've had.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, not much we can do for him, not much
he can do either. That's the reality to it. It's
reality to Stut Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio,
Sam Munson is Pro Football Focus is the league that
and finalist, and he's the co host of the PFF
NFL Show Now. PFF is a player evaluation company that
quantifies hundreds of data points on any given play in
(12:43):
an effort to identify the best players and use that
information to create insights that cannot be found anywhere else.
They also have a list of the best fifty players
in the NFL entering the season. No single number or
grade dictates this list, but a grading system along with
PFF's wins replacement the old war metric you know from
baseball most people know, has been used to the foundation
(13:05):
while leaning towards the most recent season. So remember that's
the premise it's going into this year. And Sam Munson
joineses Now on the Doug Gatlib Show on for Fox
Sports Radio. Who's ranking surprises you you the most?
Speaker 8 (13:21):
I don't know how many of them are surprising, but
it definitely gets really difficult to split hairs on say
the top fifteen, the top twenty type of players. You've
got guys like Tyreek Hill, who is you know, a singular,
unique devastating weapon. The guy might be the fastest player
in football, might be the quickest accelerating player in football.
(13:41):
Just this unstoppable playmaker, and he comes in at number
eight and you immediately look at that and think, wow,
that's way too harsh. But then anybody you're trying to
move him ahead of is also you know, a game changing,
unique game wrecker at whatever his respective position is. So
when you used to are talking about the best of
the best of the best, I think it's really difficult
(14:04):
to separate these guys.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
It's also just difficult positionally, right, Like you have Miles
Garrett to Pad Mahomes one, and then it's like, okay, well,
how do you put Miles Garrett or any of these
non quarterbacks ahead of the quarterbacks. What are your thoughts
on on ranking quarterbacks along with position players lineman, defensive
linemen in terms of actually best players? How does that
(14:29):
battle stack up for you?
Speaker 8 (14:31):
Yeah, generally, when PFF starts creating these kind of all
position lists, we work on a sort of position agnostic basis, Right,
all positions created equal. If we actually waited for the
value of the position, the first twenty five names in
every list would all be quarterbacks. You know, That's the
reality of today's NFL. That's how valuable that position is.
(14:53):
So theoretically, you know, the best guard in the NFL
has every bit as much chance of being the number
one player on this list as Patrick Mahomes or the
best quarterback in the NFL in every given year. Now,
you know, generally, though, you're going to skew towards some
quarterbacks because I think it's just easier to see how
special those guys are. It's obvious Mahomes, you know, it
(15:15):
is a unique, once in a lifetime superstar. But even
when you get maybe three or four quarterbacks seep, you've
got guys like Lamar Jackson, who's a playmaker of the
likes of which we may never have seen before. So
I think it's very easy to still rank a lot
of quarterbacks on a list like this, even if you're
trying to create all positions equal.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Sam Monson's our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show
on Fox Sworts Radio. Okay, so Mahomes is one, right,
and let's just take in terms of quarterbacks. For people
who haven't seen the list, don't follow profofotball focus, what
happens you or I've seen the PFF Show, which of
course you're a co host of, Who's the second ranked
quarterback on Pro Football Focus's Top fifty list.
Speaker 8 (15:58):
The second is Josh Allen. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson
come in two and three, right next to each other,
number twelve and number thirteen overall on the list, so
a little bit of a gap to Mahomes, and I
think that kind of happened in the last year or so,
I think when we were doing this. I haven't actually
checked last year's list, but I remember having the conversations
(16:20):
last year was kind of a discussion, should Patrick Mahomes
be in the tier by himself at the top of
the quarterbacks or is he in a tre with Josh
Allen and Joe Burrow and maybe Lamar Jackson before that
MVP season, And I think generally we sort of said,
maybe he's just at the top of that tier, but
probably doesn't deserve to be there all by himself. Yet
(16:42):
in the last twelve months, I think he separated himself.
You know, he's now one of one. He's off by himself,
and then it's the guys like Josh Allen or Lamar
Jackson or Joe Burrow, each of whom I think is
well capable of an MVP type of season. Or dragging
a team, you know, to an incredible performance or an
incredible run. But none of them have yet shown that
(17:04):
they can be Patrick Mahomes. And it's the longevity and
the consistency year on year on year that's making him
so special.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Right now, no question.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
What about Lamar in terms of and look, obviously, you
know the Bills haven't gotten past you know, havn't gotten
far enough having gotten to a super Bowl, but Lamar
has had very limited success in the playoffs. How does
like pro football focus when in terms of the balancing
act of the analytics and the actual outcome of games.
(17:35):
What are your thoughts on how high Lamar is ranked
considering how well he's performed in regular seasons, but we
haven't seemed the same residents in the postseason.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
Yeah, it's tough, and I think this year was maybe
the first year that we saw something like the real
Lamar Jackson in the postseason. I think he had a
really good game against Houston, not so good against Kansas
City previously. You know, his playoff performances have been well
down on everything we've seen in the regular season. And yeah,
(18:06):
I think it does, it does have an impact. It
has to thank her into it somewhere. We know Mahomes
is able to kind of almost take his game to
a different level in the postseason, and yet players like
Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, maybe there are guys that simply
don't And I don't think you know, I think Josh
Allen doesn't fall into that category. I know that the
Bills haven't won necessarily in the playoffs and gone to
(18:27):
the super Bowl, but I think Allen has generally actually
been very, very good in the postseason. And we all
remember that game, you know, the thirteen seconds left where
Patrick Mahomes comes out on the right side of it,
Josh Allen comes out on the wrong side. But Josh
Allen did his job on that game, like he scored,
he got the points on the board, and then his
defense wasn't able to get it done in thirteen seconds.
(18:50):
So I think Alan maybe isn't in the same category
as Prescott or Lamar Jackson. But it's definitely, you know,
a real thing that you could hold against those guys
killed they're able to show consistently that it's not a factor.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, what about Dak? Big year for Dak, how do
you guys do him?
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (19:07):
Huge year?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
For Dak.
Speaker 8 (19:09):
Look, he was arguably MVP last season if you looked
at it just from a sort of statistical analysis point
of view, I think Prescott probably had the strongest MVP
case of anybody. But obviously that award doesn't necessarily just
get given to the best statistical QB. It's sort of
narrative driven. It's about almost Heisman moments, you know, those
kinds of things, and Lamar became the MVP by those
(19:32):
kind of signature moments. But Dak was an incredible quarterback.
And then we got to the postseason and I think really,
maybe for the first time, the entire weight of history
seemed palpable for the Dallas Cowboys, Like that was one
where they didn't just run into a better team at
the wrong time and give a good account of themselves.
They did not look like Dallas in that game. They
(19:54):
tightened up, they did not look themselves, and Dak Prescott
was a big part of that. That's a huge and
of him and the team overall. If they want to
go in this run, they want to shake off the
kind of oppressive weight of this history that they're fighting against. Now,
you know, the quarterback needs to be immune to that.
And he really wasn't last season.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, I the problem with the Dak thing is, you know,
the Niners game and obviously then even the Packers game.
Like those two, he just didn't play well enough, you know.
And and those are the ones that we paid most
attention to, whereas you guys paid attention to the totality
of the season.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Totalent of this season, obviously he was very very good.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Let me let me ask you about wide receivers. I'm
looking at this list. The top rated wiers you mentioned
is Tyreek Hill. Who's next. Who's the next closest guy
to Tyreek Hill?
Speaker 8 (20:47):
Well, actually so we had justin Jefferson and I think
you know, those two guys, I think they're the two
top two clear one two, and they're really a coin flip.
And again, so it felt a little bit wrong when
you're looking at the list and saying, there's a few
players between them that separate them, and it feels like
they should be right next to each other. I think
(21:08):
after that it's a little bit of a gap. And
then again a tier of guys. We've got Ceedee Lamb
as the next guy up coming in at number twenty,
coming off a career year and then you don't have
to go far to get the next few guys as well,
at Jamar Chase at number twenty four, AJ Brown number
twenty five. I think there's a group of wide receivers
now after those top two guys who I think have
(21:29):
kind of emerged us pretty clearly the one to two
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Right now, Sam Munson our guests on Doug Gotlib Show
here on Fox Sports Radio. Isn't it interesting the fall
of Deshaun Watson? Like, I mean, honestly, I didn't even
know where do you have de Shaun Watson on this list?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But where is he ranked?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And this is a guy who, you know, previous to
the move from Cleveland and obviously all the off the
field issues, was viewed as the elite quarterback in the
NFL and now nowhere to be found. What does PFF
have on Deshaun Watson?
Speaker 8 (22:01):
I mean, yeah, he's he'sn't even factor anymore in terms
of sort of overall quarterback rankings. And I know he
was way down at the bottom of the rankings last season.
We're not even seeing average level football from him. And okay,
you know there's been some mitigating circumstances in terms of
a long layoff and you know, sort of rusted, if
(22:22):
you want to put it down to that. And then
last year we were dealing with injuries, but we've really
not even seen flashes of the player he was before.
Back in Houston. The last full season we saw from
him there, he was playing as well as anybody. I mean,
the top five quarterbacks that year in PFF grades, four
of them made the championship games, and the other one
was Deshaun Watson. He was playing at that kind of level.
(22:44):
And he's just not that player anymore. He certainly has
shown no signs of being in Cleveland, and I don't
know if that's unprecedented. I can't think of a player
who's kind of gotten to those heights, been consistently that good,
and then just stopped being that guy his NFL career
without injuries being in fank there.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That's why I asked, because it's just stunning the clip,
because we've seen guys have a fall off year and
then climb back up. You know, you guys, Aaron Rodgers
is going to be a fascinating one this year, right
because he played four snaps last year, it's really hard
to know what he's going to be like but even
if you go back to you know, I guess four
(23:25):
years ago whatever with with Green Bay, when people thought
it was falling apart, he bounced back with two MVP
seasons right this, I mean it, I don't know if
it's it's completely got away from it'll ever come back.
By the way, Sam, if somebody wants to be able
to get some of PFF's insight or your show as well,
(23:45):
how can they do so?
Speaker 8 (23:47):
Yeah, PFF dot comum obviously is where all this good
stuff is, and the PSF NFL podcasts either wherever you
get your podcasts or on YouTube as well, where you
will find us.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Do you ever disagree with the data? Do you ever
look and go like that data doesn't make sense?
Speaker 8 (24:03):
Yeah? All the time actually, and a lot of times
it's a good exercise because you sort of dive a
bit deeper and you go checking it. You go find
out why is a grade that way? And I think
one of the things we learned, you know, I've been
kind of a PSF almost since the beginning, was part
of the grading system sort of development way back in
the day. And what you learn is your mind operates
(24:26):
almost like a highlight reel, you know, and you kind
of remember the big plays, you remember the good, you
remember the bad, and you kind of throw out everything
in the middle as the same, and it isn't you know.
Those things in the middle are where a lot of
the nuance lies, and if they all break slightly positively
or slightly negatively, that can wildly swing the outcome of
a grade overall. And a lot of times to disconnect
(24:47):
between sort of what you thought when you were just
watching and what the grade says is built up of
all those little small level plays that you don't really
factor in when you're just kind of thinking back on it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's great stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Go to PFF dot com. Course you can find his
show as well. He's the one and only Sam Munson
and f PFF's lead NFL Alison co host of the
PFF NFL Show.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Sam great Stuff. Thanks so much for joining us. We
appreciate it anytime.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
Take it easy, Stut.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Gottleib show here on Fox Sports Radio. As I think
you guys know, we've talked about so the Niners have
Trent Williams at three, the Niners have Nick bosat seven,
Niners have Fred Warner at nine, and it's one of
those deals, Like we go through the Niners and all
the rest of the dudes they have, they have others
that are in that top hundred, but you know the
(25:37):
virtual all Star team that surrounds a quarterback who we
talked last year about what what is his ceiling like
and what does that look like this year when people
get more of a book on him and the talk
of using Christian McCaffrey a little bit less to save
him for the postseason. I mean, the Niners continue to
be a fascinating team. I think obviously the Dallas Cowboys,
(25:58):
not just because of the Cowboys, because of because of
the Dak contract situation. And then I still think that
the fall off of it's one thing for Deshaun Watson
to fall off in terms of as a person and
a recognizable figure and a beloved figure from where he
was in college. It's told thing to go like completely
(26:18):
off the cliff as a player, completely off the kiff
as a player. Dan, you have your your your podcast
as well, which of course is a fantasy football podcast.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I want to be on hiatus, so just the yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But it's going to come back, right.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
I went and started up the new season, just as you.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Are you going to have the season this year? We
didn't do it.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
We haven't started the new season just yet.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
No, But are you are you going to We haven't.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Started the new season just yet. Okay, So I.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Understood, understood. I thought you were getting to something, and
I got it. It takes me a while a little bit.
My point is, though, that it's you kind of all this.
I know that Jay stew like you. I think you
love that Deshaun Watsons thinks now because you feel like
who he is as a person is now mirroring who
he is a football player. But man, considering how well
(27:12):
so many other players have elongated their career, mean Aaron
Rodgers in his forties, Tom Brady into their forties. To
see a guy who falls off and doesn't feel like
he can come back, and he has this crazy contract
which no one is willing to replicate, Like, I still
think it's a fascinating story. I could be wrong, you guys,
be like, dude, everybody's over it, But I look at
like it's literally no one even talks about him as
(27:35):
a mid level quarterback anymore.
Speaker 9 (27:37):
Yeah, and I actually find the Browns interesting in the
fact of look at the great success that they just
had under Joe Flacco, who just showed up. They've got
a really, really good defense. You don't know how Nick
Chubb is gonna return, But like Deshaun Watson has to
fare better than Joe Flacco and another guy crushed in
their wild card game against the Houston Texans. But like
(27:59):
the I don't want to say that the bar is
that low, but Flacco was sufficient in what they did.
And that's where Deshaun Watson at least has to at
least has to get to. And that's the absolute bare minimum.
And they were a playoff team with Joe flack O
the quarterback over the last quarter, you know, of the season.
So you would expect, if you have a healthy Deshaun
(28:19):
Watson that they should be a playoff team once again.
But that division has also gotten more difficult because I
think the Steelers are better. Ravens were the best team.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I mean, it's a great question with the Steelers. Do
we know the Steelers are better?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I know, I we don't know for a fact.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I was just thinking, like I was just thinking because
I was thinking about how they finished up pretty strong
in that division. Like the Ravens feel like you can
put them down for double digit wins every year. Lamar's
a really good to great regular season quarterback they have.
You know, I don't know how the Derrick Henry thing works.
I mean, obviously, you know they last year they wanted
to get away from running it all the time and
(28:57):
give him, you know, more options to throwing it. Now
that I you know, what, hell with it, Let's just
run the football, which I get. You know, Cincinnati obviously,
so much of it is going to depend upon the
health of Joe Burrow. And I hear you on Pittsburgh,
but it's like, Okay, Russell Wilson was not good the
past two years. It was not good in the last
(29:20):
two years. We're going to put him in a new system,
a year older, and he's now going to be what
I would say, the Pittsburgh Steelers may be the most
interesting team in the NFL because literally no one knows
what they're going to get from the quarterback situation.
Speaker 9 (29:35):
It is intriguing. I do think it is an upgrade,
whether it be over Mason Rudolph late or Kenny Pickett.
And you have now Justin Field's in that factor. So
maybe if they aren't better passing, he will have a
more mobile running back if Fields ends up getting the job.
But I do think that they are better off in
that quarterback room. But we will find out, well.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
We'll find out. We'll find out. You know, without Romos here,
we don't talk Rams hardly at all. Have you noticed
that we don't talk Rams at all?
Speaker 9 (30:03):
I know there's some Rams news that just popped up
on my phone, that little ding that you heard.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Do you want? Do you want to do it?
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Is it worthy of?
Speaker 9 (30:12):
That's the perfect Matthew Sean McVay saying that Matthew Stafford's
got a new deal and he'll be in camp, and
uh yeah, Matthew Stafford getting a new deal with the Rams.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You know, Matthew Stafford's like, they're interesting because I do
think he does more with less and Stafford there has
been very good and he has went healthy. I mean,
two of the absolute elite pass rushers. But they had
the most dominant player in the in the NFL, maybe
defensively for the last I don't know, you know, decade,
(30:46):
like he's in any conversation of being and now they don't.
So what does that team look like? How much does
that change them?
Speaker 9 (30:52):
I think they're gonna be really good on offense, really
good and Williams and now they've got the thing that
really hurt them a couple of years ago was they
didn't have an offense of line consistency at all, and
it was just piecemeal together. And now I think that
there is much more consistency there.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Yeah. I think they're uh, I think they're going to
be all right.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, they I mean they do figure out a way.
He figures out away and then Stafford can still spin
it and obviously still wants to spin it.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
But you do not gott Leap Show Fox Sports Radio.
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should be. Whenever you heard game time, you know Dan
Buyer's going to join us. Let's get to it.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
This is game time.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
Sig on the Doug Gottlieb show.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Dan Buyer what you got, Doug.
Speaker 9 (32:22):
The game today is rank him. Quick note on the
Matthew Stafford deal. It's basically he had three years left
on his contract, but this was the final year where
he had guaranteed money. So the Rams restructuring that. So
Matthew Stafford going to be likely sticking a while a
little while longer in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Remember there's some talk of retirement going back to the
injury two years ago and obviously not retiring anytime soon.
Speaker 9 (32:46):
I thought they were gonna tank for Caleb Williams. Then
they were a ten win team last year. All right,
let's get to it. Ranking things today, Doug ranked the
three best players on Team USA men's squad.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
For the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Right, yeah, I'm gonna go Kevin Durant one, So I'll
put Anthony Davis three, Lebron James two, and Kevin Durant one.
Speaker 9 (33:11):
Okay, I wondered if Lebron was going to take that
top spot, but answer is heroics against South Sudan and
another strong performance against Germany yesterday.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
All right.
Speaker 9 (33:23):
Doug ranked the three non basketball Olympic sports that you're
excited to watch.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
M The only issues with the word excited because you
know because on the on the docket, on the sheet
it says ranked the three non basketball.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Sports you'll watch.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I had to watch different things.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Spice it up, try to watch maybe. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Three will be women's gymnastics, all right, They're just they're unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I can't.
Speaker 8 (33:55):
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Good you should be. Uh.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Two will be break dancing. Okay, I'm serious. I gotta watch, Like,
how is this a sport? I just I have to
watch a little bit.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
And one is gonna be track.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
And field, all right, get the speed out there.
Speaker 9 (34:17):
Or maybe you're a field sort of guy and prefer
to watch the javelin.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, the only thing worse than track is field.
Speaker 9 (34:23):
Doug rank the best number of games for an NFL
regular season schedule. This on the heels of the talk
that the union and league have had high level talks
about adding an eighteenth game.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Which way do you like it?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I like sixteen in terms of the numbers and how
it worked, but I mean I think eight. Look here's
what eighteen does is it looks like it's gonna push
the Super Bowl to President's Day weekend, which all of
us had wondered, like, why can't we just do it
that way? Two buys more games, more money.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'm gonna go with eighteen.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Don't eighteen numero uno?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
And then oh oh we got to do three.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
So I mean, look, I'm traditionalist. Sixteen was a long time,
so I'll go. I'll go seventeen being three, eighteen being two,
and sixteen being one.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Okay, it's big, SOI part two it is.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
It's gonna be really hard with some of the record. Yes,
they didn't they didn't play sixteen games and O. J.
Simpson ran for two thousand yards, Like, I get it.
But we have a lot of records the last thirty years,
and now they're all going to be broken.
Speaker 9 (35:31):
And if you do add the extra bye week, which
many think is needed for the eighteen week season, yeah,
you actually have to start the season earlier because if
you're adding the extra week on the back end, or
you'd have to eliminate that week off between the Super Bowl,
which I don't think is.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
All Right, Doug grank the most intriguing teams in the
Big Ten this year as it's football media days for
that conference, got Michigan without Harbaugh, Ohio State trying to
run it back with everyone's stay. Yeah, the new additions
obviously with Oregon and Washington and USC and iowall, of course.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I think three will be Michigan defending national champions without
Jim Harball. I think two will be Ohio State one.
You know, was it Harball that was beating them or
was it just Michigan and how they react to it.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I think one's USC.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You know, of all the schools that you would think
are equipped to get to the Midwest and compete, and
you know, look, Lincoln Riley ruffle a lot of feathers
when he left Oklahoma for USC and had initial success
in last year was a mess the US season.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Umber one.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Finally, rank your three best concerts you've seen this year
this year?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yep, I will say Summer Slam. I think it was
three as Playboy CARDI I was in Chicago. That was awesome.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Uh man five seconds, Dog tis a tick en.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I'll go Kenny Chesney and Milwaukee too, and then uh,
Maroon five number one, marun five, number one Doug Gottlib
Show here on Fox Sports Radio. A couple of next,
will Jordan Love get a new deal done? We'll discuss
next on The Doug Gotlib Show
Thanks for listening to the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five,
Easter twelve, two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
By searching app as Talk Up.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
America Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio coming to you
from the tyright dot com studios tyrit dot com. What
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protection over ten thousand recommends dollars. Tyright dot COM's way
tire buying should be Hey, welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I hope you're doing well well. Thank you, Thank you
for the hand.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I appreciate that. That's really really nice of you. Got
a great show planned for you. We'll continue to keep
an eye on things down the street from me as
Jordan Love has not yet signed a contract extension, but
most people expect that to go down this week as
he's doing the sit in sit in you know where
he's there but not participating there is fine. We'll keep
(01:01):
you keep you updated on anything going on training camp wise.
Obviously we're getting ready for the Olympics, and I want
to talk about the national team, who yesterday survived yet again,
this time against the German national team. So before it
was South Sudan and everyone making fine and not everyone,
lots of dudes making fun of the team for nearly
(01:21):
losing to South Sudan. Now there seems to be a
trend with the struggles to be Germany, another team that
you know has NBA players, but no one thinks Germany
should challenge Team USA.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Why they did. We can get to all that upcoming.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I do want to start with with just one thing
before we get to something that I think is under
discussed in regards to Lebron James dominance, especially late in.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Games for USA basketball.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's this sound going around from Paul George on his
podcast talking about his time with the Clippers, and Paul said,
you know, hey, from the from the get go, he
was playing on the B team.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Take a listen.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Coming back to LA. That was home when I first
came back to LA.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
But it ain't.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It's not the same love because when I was in LA,
they like, man, you should have been a Laker. I here.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
It wasn't no like, oh, welcome to the Clippers.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Happy you had in LA, but you should have been
a Laker second team. I'm on the B teams. That's
how the vibe and the love felt.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean they're the Clippers.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Dan Byer's lived out here for over twenty years, right,
Jay Stu grew up, lived, born, raised everything in southern California. Obviously,
I was raised in California, and then I've come back
up until now living in Green Bay nine of the
last twelve years of my life. And previously that, from
the time I was six and a half until the
(02:54):
time I was nineteen, I lived in southern California.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And you can't say you're from LA.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
If.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
There's just a couple of dead giveaways, right, A couple
of dead giveaways. First is, if you call a freeway
by the freeway's name, you're not from LA. You call
a freeway by the freeway's name, you're not from LA. Now,
the opposite is true in New York. In New York,
(03:25):
everything's known by the name. Oh that's the Hudson River Parkway.
Oh that's the saw mill. There are numbers that coincide
with these things, but nobody in New York knows the
numbers in La. No one goes by the numbers. No
one goes by the names.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Everyone goes by the numbers.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So the first dead giveaway in that you're not really
from southern California is if you call a freeway by
the freeway's name. Oh, I was on the San Diego Freeway.
I don't even know what freeway is the San Diego Freeway.
I mean, I'm guessing it's the five. But no one
calls the five the San Diego Freeway. They call it
the five, call it the five. I think the second
(04:02):
thing is you understand the differences in areas. In areas
like Ventura County not LA. In an empire not LA,
Orange County not LA. They all have their own kind
of areas and things. And the last one is if
you don't know the Clippers are the B team, you know,
(04:24):
don't say you're from LA. And by the way, he's
from Lancaster, which is outside of Bakersfield.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It's not LA.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
And the surprise that he felt like he reacted to
tells you all you need to know, Like, really, did
you did you think this was a Clipper town? I mean,
even with the new arena which they displayed to everybody,
this weekend, and if you watch social media like this
is amazing, everyone I know walked away with the same thought,
that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Only one problem. The Clippers play.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
There all right, let's get to the NBA playoffs or
sent me plus the team USA playing in the in
the friendlies getting ready for Olympic basketball. Yesterday, they survived Germany,
got to be at one point game late. Germany took
some bad shots, missed a couple of them, Lebron James
(05:13):
a couple of gigantic shots, did miss two free throws,
and Team USA ends up getting to win.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
They continue to.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Wait on Kevin Durant to be healthy coming off of
the strained calf muscle.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And that's, by the way, what we're told it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Is the strained calf muscle, even though there's no rap
and he has gone through practices. Here's Paul Pierce on
Undisputed this morning talking about Lebron's play with USA basketball.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
You know, when you look at the regular season and
you like, oh man, it's next inline or Jason Tatum
is this, But when you see the collection come all
together and you watch Lebron man, he might be clearly
the best player still in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I mean, I don't know. I mean it just that
way watching this.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Time, No senous, you just punk shoot.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I don't look at the collection.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
So you why isn't nobody else doing this?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Okay, why is that stepping up?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
I want to see aunt Man or Tatum do this
a couple of games.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
But this is this is supposed.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
To be one of the young boys coming in and doing
this for them. Okay, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, so there's a couple of things. Paul's not wrong
in terms of end of game. Now, part of the
reason Lebron hit a wide open three at the end
of the game was Germany was daring him to shoot,
because the Germans they don't think most foreign teams don't
think Lebron is nearly as good a shooter as sometimes
reputation would have you believe in the NBA when he
(06:39):
missed two free throws there late, like the foreign teams
are still in the belief of like the San Antonio Spurs,
if you're gonna make a beach hip, make a beach
with a jump shot. The other part was the big
drive and finish he had was with his left hand,
and as anybody who's watched Lebron knows he likes to
drive to his right and to his left. He likes
to shoot that kind of weird sort of side step
(07:00):
that back pull up three.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He doesn't usually get to the basket.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
All of that being said, what I think most people
don't account for most people is the fact that this
is a very different game. And look, you have to
be big, you have to be able to make shots
over the top. The game is very physical, and there's
(07:27):
a reason that there's a reason that European teams are
able to hang with the far more athletic American players
in FIBA basketball. That's the way it's always been. And
so while you say shooting is valued from Steph Curry,
the problem with Steph is once he gets it and
he puts it on the floor, you can hand check,
(07:48):
and so Steph becomes can be marginalized little bit, and
then defensively they'll post them up.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Tatum dribbles too much, ant Man's too much mid range
and gets the hoop. It's just they don't have the
same lanes to the basket. And while Lebron is clearly
not one of the best player on his own team,
let alone one of the top ten players in the
NBA because he doesn't play both sides of the ball
in FOBA basketball, where you can take breaks, you can
(08:18):
play zone, you can be super physical in both offense
and defense if you know how to do it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
And then late in the game.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Older players just win and he doesn't have to play
big minutes because they have so many guys. So if
you want to say he's the best player at playing
Phoeba style basketball right now, the answer is yes. He
also has a supreme amount of confidence. They believe in him,
and those other guys don't really know how to react,
(08:45):
how to play, and it gives Lebron the chance to
take over.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I think most of that will change when Kevin Durant
comes back, and then KD becomes.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
The go to score late.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Because Lebron still holds the ball too long and KD,
remember build this out in line Olympics, he was the guy.
But Paul Pierce is making the I think ill fated
assumption that what you see in Phoeba style basketball equates
to what we would see in the NBA, and that's
(09:17):
just not true.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
He is right right.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
This should be a time in which one of these
young guys steps up makes plays like WHOA. Jason Tatum
is the next great one, Anthony Edwards is the next
great one. But only Lebron has the confidence and the
strength to make these plays. But that doesn't mean that
in an NBA style game he's anywhere close to those players.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
It's a Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Rapid Radios are instant pushed to talk walkie Talkie's offering
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(10:47):
Christmas Eve or Christmas Day and then maybe one other time,
and then when you really needed it for a big sleepover,
it would never work again. Well, these things are way better,
So I have one. You guys did see the Brandon
Nyuk reported to Camps record a camp with the Niners.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's like, my nephew, Sawyer's here with.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Me and he was helping me prep for the show
and he's like, Brandon Yuk. We gotta talk about Brandon Yuk.
He's from northern California. I was like, why, Well, he
wants to trade, he wants a new deal. Okay, he's
under contract, so.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
He'll be there.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Just one of those things that if the Niners don't
want to trade him, there is no reason to trade
for or trade Brandon Nyuk now because no one is
in desperate need of a wide receiver who's not the
best wide receiver on their team and who wants a
gargantuan deal. Here's here's George Kittle, a Pro Bowl tight
(11:49):
end for the San Francisco forty nine ers, talking about
his teammate Brandon Ayuck.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
I love Brandon. He's a fantastic teammate.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
He does everything that you want him to do as
a wide receiver, including taking touchdowns for me once in
a while, which I'm totally okay with.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
But he's just.
Speaker 7 (12:02):
Such a dynamic receiver and he's just such a very
important part of our offense. So, yeah, skidding Brandon and
I you the money that he deserves is I hope,
nothing but the best for him. There's unfortunately, not much
that I can do to help out with that except
just cheer him on from the sidelines and hopefully we
figure something out because he's one of my favorite teammates
I've had.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, not much we can do for him, not much
he can do either. That's the reality to it. It's
reality to Stut Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio,
Sam Munson is Pro Football Focus is the league that
and finalist, and he's the co host of the PFF
NFL Show Now. PFF is a player evaluation company that
quantifies hundreds of data points on any given play in
(12:43):
an effort to identify the best players and use that
information to create insights that cannot be found anywhere else.
They also have a list of the best fifty players
in the NFL entering the season. No single number or
grade dictates this list, but a grading system along with
PFF's wins replacement the old war metric you know from
baseball most people know, has been used to the foundation
(13:05):
while leaning towards the most recent season. So remember that's
the premise it's going into this year. And Sam Munson
joineses Now on the Doug Gatlib Show on for Fox
Sports Radio. Who's ranking surprises you you the most?
Speaker 8 (13:21):
I don't know how many of them are surprising, but
it definitely gets really difficult to split hairs on say
the top fifteen, the top twenty type of players. You've
got guys like Tyreek Hill, who is you know, a singular,
unique devastating weapon. The guy might be the fastest player
in football, might be the quickest accelerating player in football.
(13:41):
Just this unstoppable playmaker, and he comes in at number
eight and you immediately look at that and think, wow,
that's way too harsh. But then anybody you're trying to
move him ahead of is also you know, a game changing,
unique game wrecker at whatever his respective position is. So
when you used to are talking about the best of
the best of the best, I think it's really difficult
(14:04):
to separate these guys.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
It's also just difficult positionally, right, Like you have Miles
Garrett to Pad Mahomes one, and then it's like, okay, well,
how do you put Miles Garrett or any of these
non quarterbacks ahead of the quarterbacks. What are your thoughts
on on ranking quarterbacks along with position players lineman, defensive
linemen in terms of actually best players? How does that
(14:29):
battle stack up for you?
Speaker 8 (14:31):
Yeah, generally, when PFF starts creating these kind of all
position lists, we work on a sort of position agnostic basis, Right,
all positions created equal. If we actually waited for the
value of the position, the first twenty five names in
every list would all be quarterbacks. You know, That's the
reality of today's NFL. That's how valuable that position is.
(14:53):
So theoretically, you know, the best guard in the NFL
has every bit as much chance of being the number
one player on this list as Patrick Mahomes or the
best quarterback in the NFL in every given year. Now,
you know, generally, though, you're going to skew towards some
quarterbacks because I think it's just easier to see how
special those guys are. It's obvious Mahomes, you know, it
(15:15):
is a unique, once in a lifetime superstar. But even
when you get maybe three or four quarterbacks seep, you've
got guys like Lamar Jackson, who's a playmaker of the
likes of which we may never have seen before. So
I think it's very easy to still rank a lot
of quarterbacks on a list like this, even if you're
trying to create all positions equal.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Sam Monson's our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show
on Fox Sworts Radio. Okay, so Mahomes is one, right,
and let's just take in terms of quarterbacks. For people
who haven't seen the list, don't follow profofotball focus, what
happens you or I've seen the PFF Show, which of
course you're a co host of, Who's the second ranked
quarterback on Pro Football Focus's Top fifty list.
Speaker 8 (15:58):
The second is Josh Allen. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson
come in two and three, right next to each other,
number twelve and number thirteen overall on the list, so
a little bit of a gap to Mahomes, and I
think that kind of happened in the last year or so,
I think when we were doing this. I haven't actually
checked last year's list, but I remember having the conversations
(16:20):
last year was kind of a discussion, should Patrick Mahomes
be in the tier by himself at the top of
the quarterbacks or is he in a tre with Josh
Allen and Joe Burrow and maybe Lamar Jackson before that
MVP season, And I think generally we sort of said,
maybe he's just at the top of that tier, but
probably doesn't deserve to be there all by himself. Yet
(16:42):
in the last twelve months, I think he separated himself.
You know, he's now one of one. He's off by himself,
and then it's the guys like Josh Allen or Lamar
Jackson or Joe Burrow, each of whom I think is
well capable of an MVP type of season. Or dragging
a team, you know, to an incredible performance or an
incredible run. But none of them have yet shown that
(17:04):
they can be Patrick Mahomes. And it's the longevity and
the consistency year on year on year that's making him
so special.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Right now, no question.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
What about Lamar in terms of and look, obviously, you
know the Bills haven't gotten past you know, havn't gotten
far enough having gotten to a super Bowl, but Lamar
has had very limited success in the playoffs. How does
like pro football focus when in terms of the balancing
act of the analytics and the actual outcome of games.
(17:35):
What are your thoughts on how high Lamar is ranked
considering how well he's performed in regular seasons, but we
haven't seemed the same residents in the postseason.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
Yeah, it's tough, and I think this year was maybe
the first year that we saw something like the real
Lamar Jackson in the postseason. I think he had a
really good game against Houston, not so good against Kansas
City previously. You know, his playoff performances have been well
down on everything we've seen in the regular season. And yeah,
(18:06):
I think it does, it does have an impact. It
has to thank her into it somewhere. We know Mahomes
is able to kind of almost take his game to
a different level in the postseason, and yet players like
Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, maybe there are guys that simply
don't And I don't think you know, I think Josh
Allen doesn't fall into that category. I know that the
Bills haven't won necessarily in the playoffs and gone to
(18:27):
the super Bowl, but I think Allen has generally actually
been very, very good in the postseason. And we all
remember that game, you know, the thirteen seconds left where
Patrick Mahomes comes out on the right side of it,
Josh Allen comes out on the wrong side. But Josh
Allen did his job on that game, like he scored,
he got the points on the board, and then his
defense wasn't able to get it done in thirteen seconds.
(18:50):
So I think Alan maybe isn't in the same category
as Prescott or Lamar Jackson. But it's definitely, you know,
a real thing that you could hold against those guys
killed they're able to show consistently that it's not a factor.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, what about Dak? Big year for Dak, how do
you guys do him?
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (19:07):
Huge year?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
For Dak.
Speaker 8 (19:09):
Look, he was arguably MVP last season if you looked
at it just from a sort of statistical analysis point
of view, I think Prescott probably had the strongest MVP
case of anybody. But obviously that award doesn't necessarily just
get given to the best statistical QB. It's sort of
narrative driven. It's about almost Heisman moments, you know, those
kinds of things, and Lamar became the MVP by those
(19:32):
kind of signature moments. But Dak was an incredible quarterback.
And then we got to the postseason and I think really,
maybe for the first time, the entire weight of history
seemed palpable for the Dallas Cowboys, Like that was one
where they didn't just run into a better team at
the wrong time and give a good account of themselves.
They did not look like Dallas in that game. They
(19:54):
tightened up, they did not look themselves, and Dak Prescott
was a big part of that. That's a huge and
of him and the team overall. If they want to
go in this run, they want to shake off the
kind of oppressive weight of this history that they're fighting against. Now,
you know, the quarterback needs to be immune to that.
And he really wasn't last season.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, I the problem with the Dak thing is, you know,
the Niners game and obviously then even the Packers game.
Like those two, he just didn't play well enough, you know.
And and those are the ones that we paid most
attention to, whereas you guys paid attention to the totality
of the season.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Totalent of this season, obviously he was very very good.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Let me let me ask you about wide receivers. I'm
looking at this list. The top rated wiers you mentioned
is Tyreek Hill. Who's next. Who's the next closest guy
to Tyreek Hill?
Speaker 8 (20:47):
Well, actually so we had justin Jefferson and I think
you know, those two guys, I think they're the two
top two clear one two, and they're really a coin flip.
And again, so it felt a little bit wrong when
you're looking at the list and saying, there's a few
players between them that separate them, and it feels like
they should be right next to each other. I think
(21:08):
after that it's a little bit of a gap. And
then again a tier of guys. We've got Ceedee Lamb
as the next guy up coming in at number twenty,
coming off a career year and then you don't have
to go far to get the next few guys as well,
at Jamar Chase at number twenty four, AJ Brown number
twenty five. I think there's a group of wide receivers
now after those top two guys who I think have
(21:29):
kind of emerged us pretty clearly the one to two
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Right now, Sam Munson our guests on Doug Gotlib Show
here on Fox Sports Radio. Isn't it interesting the fall
of Deshaun Watson? Like, I mean, honestly, I didn't even
know where do you have de Shaun Watson on this list?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But where is he ranked?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And this is a guy who, you know, previous to
the move from Cleveland and obviously all the off the
field issues, was viewed as the elite quarterback in the
NFL and now nowhere to be found. What does PFF
have on Deshaun Watson?
Speaker 8 (22:01):
I mean, yeah, he's he'sn't even factor anymore in terms
of sort of overall quarterback rankings. And I know he
was way down at the bottom of the rankings last season.
We're not even seeing average level football from him. And okay,
you know there's been some mitigating circumstances in terms of
a long layoff and you know, sort of rusted, if
(22:22):
you want to put it down to that. And then
last year we were dealing with injuries, but we've really
not even seen flashes of the player he was before.
Back in Houston. The last full season we saw from
him there, he was playing as well as anybody. I mean,
the top five quarterbacks that year in PFF grades, four
of them made the championship games, and the other one
was Deshaun Watson. He was playing at that kind of level.
(22:44):
And he's just not that player anymore. He certainly has
shown no signs of being in Cleveland, and I don't
know if that's unprecedented. I can't think of a player
who's kind of gotten to those heights, been consistently that good,
and then just stopped being that guy his NFL career
without injuries being in fank there.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That's why I asked, because it's just stunning the clip,
because we've seen guys have a fall off year and
then climb back up. You know, you guys, Aaron Rodgers
is going to be a fascinating one this year, right
because he played four snaps last year, it's really hard
to know what he's going to be like but even
if you go back to you know, I guess four
(23:25):
years ago whatever with with Green Bay, when people thought
it was falling apart, he bounced back with two MVP
seasons right this, I mean it, I don't know if
it's it's completely got away from it'll ever come back.
By the way, Sam, if somebody wants to be able
to get some of PFF's insight or your show as well,
(23:45):
how can they do so?
Speaker 8 (23:47):
Yeah, PFF dot comum obviously is where all this good
stuff is, and the PSF NFL podcasts either wherever you
get your podcasts or on YouTube as well, where you
will find us.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Do you ever disagree with the data? Do you ever
look and go like that data doesn't make sense?
Speaker 8 (24:03):
Yeah? All the time actually, and a lot of times
it's a good exercise because you sort of dive a
bit deeper and you go checking it. You go find
out why is a grade that way? And I think
one of the things we learned, you know, I've been
kind of a PSF almost since the beginning, was part
of the grading system sort of development way back in
the day. And what you learn is your mind operates
(24:26):
almost like a highlight reel, you know, and you kind
of remember the big plays, you remember the good, you
remember the bad, and you kind of throw out everything
in the middle as the same, and it isn't you know.
Those things in the middle are where a lot of
the nuance lies, and if they all break slightly positively
or slightly negatively, that can wildly swing the outcome of
a grade overall. And a lot of times to disconnect
(24:47):
between sort of what you thought when you were just
watching and what the grade says is built up of
all those little small level plays that you don't really
factor in when you're just kind of thinking back on it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's great stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Go to PFF dot com. Course you can find his
show as well. He's the one and only Sam Munson
and f PFF's lead NFL Alison co host of the
PFF NFL Show.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Sam great Stuff. Thanks so much for joining us. We
appreciate it anytime.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
Take it easy, Stut.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Gottleib show here on Fox Sports Radio. As I think
you guys know, we've talked about so the Niners have
Trent Williams at three, the Niners have Nick bosat seven,
Niners have Fred Warner at nine, and it's one of
those deals, Like we go through the Niners and all
the rest of the dudes they have, they have others
that are in that top hundred, but you know the
(25:37):
virtual all Star team that surrounds a quarterback who we
talked last year about what what is his ceiling like
and what does that look like this year when people
get more of a book on him and the talk
of using Christian McCaffrey a little bit less to save
him for the postseason. I mean, the Niners continue to
be a fascinating team. I think obviously the Dallas Cowboys,
(25:58):
not just because of the Cowboys, because of because of
the Dak contract situation. And then I still think that
the fall off of it's one thing for Deshaun Watson
to fall off in terms of as a person and
a recognizable figure and a beloved figure from where he
was in college. It's told thing to go like completely
(26:18):
off the cliff as a player, completely off the kiff
as a player. Dan, you have your your your podcast
as well, which of course is a fantasy football podcast.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I want to be on hiatus, so just the yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But it's going to come back, right.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
I went and started up the new season, just as you.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Are you going to have the season this year? We
didn't do it.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
We haven't started the new season just yet.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
No, But are you are you going to We haven't.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Started the new season just yet. Okay, So I.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Understood, understood. I thought you were getting to something, and
I got it. It takes me a while a little bit.
My point is, though, that it's you kind of all this.
I know that Jay stew like you. I think you
love that Deshaun Watsons thinks now because you feel like
who he is as a person is now mirroring who
he is a football player. But man, considering how well
(27:12):
so many other players have elongated their career, mean Aaron
Rodgers in his forties, Tom Brady into their forties. To
see a guy who falls off and doesn't feel like
he can come back, and he has this crazy contract
which no one is willing to replicate, Like, I still
think it's a fascinating story. I could be wrong, you guys,
be like, dude, everybody's over it, But I look at
like it's literally no one even talks about him as
(27:35):
a mid level quarterback anymore.
Speaker 9 (27:37):
Yeah, and I actually find the Browns interesting in the
fact of look at the great success that they just
had under Joe Flacco, who just showed up. They've got
a really, really good defense. You don't know how Nick
Chubb is gonna return, But like Deshaun Watson has to
fare better than Joe Flacco and another guy crushed in
their wild card game against the Houston Texans. But like
(27:59):
the I don't want to say that the bar is
that low, but Flacco was sufficient in what they did.
And that's where Deshaun Watson at least has to at
least has to get to. And that's the absolute bare minimum.
And they were a playoff team with Joe flack O
the quarterback over the last quarter, you know, of the season.
So you would expect, if you have a healthy Deshaun
(28:19):
Watson that they should be a playoff team once again.
But that division has also gotten more difficult because I
think the Steelers are better. Ravens were the best team.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I mean, it's a great question with the Steelers. Do
we know the Steelers are better?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I know, I we don't know for a fact.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I was just thinking, like I was just thinking because
I was thinking about how they finished up pretty strong
in that division. Like the Ravens feel like you can
put them down for double digit wins every year. Lamar's
a really good to great regular season quarterback they have.
You know, I don't know how the Derrick Henry thing works.
I mean, obviously, you know they last year they wanted
to get away from running it all the time and
(28:57):
give him, you know, more options to throwing it. Now
that I you know, what, hell with it, Let's just
run the football, which I get. You know, Cincinnati obviously,
so much of it is going to depend upon the
health of Joe Burrow. And I hear you on Pittsburgh,
but it's like, Okay, Russell Wilson was not good the
past two years. It was not good in the last
(29:20):
two years. We're going to put him in a new system,
a year older, and he's now going to be what
I would say, the Pittsburgh Steelers may be the most
interesting team in the NFL because literally no one knows
what they're going to get from the quarterback situation.
Speaker 9 (29:35):
It is intriguing. I do think it is an upgrade,
whether it be over Mason Rudolph late or Kenny Pickett.
And you have now Justin Field's in that factor. So
maybe if they aren't better passing, he will have a
more mobile running back if Fields ends up getting the job.
But I do think that they are better off in
that quarterback room. But we will find out, well.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
We'll find out. We'll find out. You know, without Romos here,
we don't talk Rams hardly at all. Have you noticed
that we don't talk Rams at all?
Speaker 9 (30:03):
I know there's some Rams news that just popped up
on my phone, that little ding that you heard.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Do you want? Do you want to do it?
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Is it worthy of?
Speaker 9 (30:12):
That's the perfect Matthew Sean McVay saying that Matthew Stafford's
got a new deal and he'll be in camp, and
uh yeah, Matthew Stafford getting a new deal with the Rams.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You know, Matthew Stafford's like, they're interesting because I do
think he does more with less and Stafford there has
been very good and he has went healthy. I mean,
two of the absolute elite pass rushers. But they had
the most dominant player in the in the NFL, maybe
defensively for the last I don't know, you know, decade,
(30:46):
like he's in any conversation of being and now they don't.
So what does that team look like? How much does
that change them?
Speaker 9 (30:52):
I think they're gonna be really good on offense, really
good and Williams and now they've got the thing that
really hurt them a couple of years ago was they
didn't have an offense of line consistency at all, and
it was just piecemeal together. And now I think that
there is much more consistency there.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Yeah. I think they're uh, I think they're going to
be all right.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, they I mean they do figure out a way.
He figures out away and then Stafford can still spin
it and obviously still wants to spin it.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
But you do not gott Leap Show Fox Sports Radio.
Fox Sports Radios teamed up with Tyra had to give
away a set of four brand new tires valued up
to fifteen hundred dollars each two weeks this summer. That's right,
Three lugged listeners receive a set of four brand new
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(31:51):
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Trade dot Com furnished by Tyren the way tied buying
should be. Whenever you heard game time, you know Dan
Buyer's going to join us. Let's get to it.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
This is game time.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
Sig on the Doug Gottlieb show.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Dan Buyer what you got, Doug.
Speaker 9 (32:22):
The game today is rank him. Quick note on the
Matthew Stafford deal. It's basically he had three years left
on his contract, but this was the final year where
he had guaranteed money. So the Rams restructuring that. So
Matthew Stafford going to be likely sticking a while a
little while longer in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Remember there's some talk of retirement going back to the
injury two years ago and obviously not retiring anytime soon.
Speaker 9 (32:46):
I thought they were gonna tank for Caleb Williams. Then
they were a ten win team last year. All right,
let's get to it. Ranking things today, Doug ranked the
three best players on Team USA men's squad.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
For the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Right, yeah, I'm gonna go Kevin Durant one, So I'll
put Anthony Davis three, Lebron James two, and Kevin Durant one.
Speaker 9 (33:11):
Okay, I wondered if Lebron was going to take that
top spot, but answer is heroics against South Sudan and
another strong performance against Germany yesterday.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
All right.
Speaker 9 (33:23):
Doug ranked the three non basketball Olympic sports that you're
excited to watch.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
M The only issues with the word excited because you
know because on the on the docket, on the sheet
it says ranked the three non basketball.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Sports you'll watch.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I had to watch different things.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Spice it up, try to watch maybe. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Three will be women's gymnastics, all right, They're just they're unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I can't.
Speaker 8 (33:55):
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Good you should be. Uh.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Two will be break dancing. Okay, I'm serious. I gotta watch, Like,
how is this a sport? I just I have to
watch a little bit.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
And one is gonna be track.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
And field, all right, get the speed out there.
Speaker 9 (34:17):
Or maybe you're a field sort of guy and prefer
to watch the javelin.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, the only thing worse than track is field.
Speaker 9 (34:23):
Doug rank the best number of games for an NFL
regular season schedule. This on the heels of the talk
that the union and league have had high level talks
about adding an eighteenth game.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Which way do you like it?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I like sixteen in terms of the numbers and how
it worked, but I mean I think eight. Look here's
what eighteen does is it looks like it's gonna push
the Super Bowl to President's Day weekend, which all of
us had wondered, like, why can't we just do it
that way? Two buys more games, more money.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'm gonna go with eighteen.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Don't eighteen numero uno?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
And then oh oh we got to do three.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
So I mean, look, I'm traditionalist. Sixteen was a long time,
so I'll go. I'll go seventeen being three, eighteen being two,
and sixteen being one.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Okay, it's big, SOI part two it is.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
It's gonna be really hard with some of the record. Yes,
they didn't they didn't play sixteen games and O. J.
Simpson ran for two thousand yards, Like, I get it.
But we have a lot of records the last thirty years,
and now they're all going to be broken.
Speaker 9 (35:31):
And if you do add the extra bye week, which
many think is needed for the eighteen week season, yeah,
you actually have to start the season earlier because if
you're adding the extra week on the back end, or
you'd have to eliminate that week off between the Super Bowl,
which I don't think is.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
All Right, Doug grank the most intriguing teams in the
Big Ten this year as it's football media days for
that conference, got Michigan without Harbaugh, Ohio State trying to
run it back with everyone's stay. Yeah, the new additions
obviously with Oregon and Washington and USC and iowall, of course.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I think three will be Michigan defending national champions without
Jim Harball. I think two will be Ohio State one.
You know, was it Harball that was beating them or
was it just Michigan and how they react to it.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I think one's USC.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You know, of all the schools that you would think
are equipped to get to the Midwest and compete, and
you know, look, Lincoln Riley ruffle a lot of feathers
when he left Oklahoma for USC and had initial success
in last year was a mess the US season.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Umber one.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Finally, rank your three best concerts you've seen this year
this year?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yep, I will say Summer Slam. I think it was
three as Playboy CARDI I was in Chicago. That was awesome.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Uh man five seconds, Dog tis a tick en.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I'll go Kenny Chesney and Milwaukee too, and then uh,
Maroon five number one, marun five, number one Doug Gottlib
Show here on Fox Sports Radio. A couple of next,
will Jordan Love get a new deal done? We'll discuss
next on The Doug Gotlib Show
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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