September 12, 2024 • 36 mins
Doug explains why he doesn't think Joe Burrow is overrated as he disagrees with the thoughts of former receiver and FS1 host James Jones about the Bengals' quarterback. Doug welcomes senior NFL Writer for The Athletic Mike Sando onto the show to talk about the Jets, the Chargers and all of the other major NFL headlines. Plus, Dan Beyer takes Doug and the crew through a game of I Feel A Draft.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
Doug otlif Show Fox Sports Radio. Coming to you from
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The crown is yours. That's pretty awesome. That Dan's ready.
(00:42):
I'm ready, We're all fired up. This is just a big,
big time Showkay, big big time show. And we're ready
for Thursday Night football, Thursday Night football. Right, But before
you get to Thursday night foot tell because I think
there's a question. First we have the football becomes about
(01:02):
the quarterbacks, right? It just does it becomes about the quarterbacks,
and tonight we have two a tongue Bailoa who's received
a huge contract extension. And I think it's a fascinating
game because the superpower of the Dolphins at September is
playing at home and the other team is playing underneath
that bright Miami sunshine on that visiting sidelines. That gets
(01:23):
just being down from the gods. And then of course
on the other side, he got Josh Allen, and Josh
Allen is a guy who can, you know, throw a
ball through a brick wall no matter what the weather is.
Josh Allen has his own his own issues, right is
his own issues very much. But I think what's fascinating
about about this this story is it does relate because
(01:46):
last year he got a contract extension. He being Joe Burrow.
Here's former Packers wide receiver current FS one host James
Jones earlier today talking about Joe Burrow.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
We got to start keeping it real for Joe Burrow.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
If la Mar Jackson throw that ball and his toe
ain't out, there's a lot of ifs. If Jalen hursts
look down the middle of the field and recover two
and don't throw it.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
And it ain't.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
It's a lot of ifs, but them dudes take a
lot of heat. Joe Burrow has not been good man
the last two years and starting off this seat, he
ain't been good. He was five and five last year
and then went out with an injury. All right, then
they went four and three without Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow
without top elite wide receivers is average.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
He is.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
But we keep no no for real though, but we
keep we keep living on the Super Bowl appearance, but
we don't live on other stuff for other quarterbacks. Joe
Burrow's not playing good football right now.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
He ain't right, and we keep.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Putting him up there saying he's better than Josh allahe
the number two quarterback in football. But to be honest
with you, the real is he ain't played well the.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Last year and a half.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
He ain't.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
You just lost to the Patriots, man.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Joe Burrow.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
This is the New England Patriots, and you're supposed to
be the second best quarterback in football. Everybody praising that's you,
the only one that could challenge Patrick Mahomes and all this.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Well, the last year and a half you can't. You
have not been a good quarterback.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And if it was any other quarterback, we wouldn't keep saying,
oh man, if this, if that, if that, if this, No,
the man gotta play better and he's not, and you
should be nervous.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's true. I think here's I
think the problem. Here's I think the problem. I think
the problem is no one actually watches the Bengals play football, really,
and and I would I would actually agree with James
(03:40):
Jones from this standpoint. The standpoint is that last year
in the playoffs, like we make it out like the
Bengals defense, but the offense stalled against it was the Chiefs, right,
they'd lost to you, and they had a chance to
win the game. Defense got some stucks, the offense stalled
out some in the second half. And we do give
(04:01):
Joe Burrow a bit of a pass because he led
the Bengals to a super Bowl. But I just I'll
be honest with you. I can't go by overall team
team record. I what I what I can't and don't understand. Okay,
what I can't and don't understand is how we're supposed
to evaluate Joe Burrow when he doesn't have his weaponry, Like, oh,
(04:21):
when he doesn't have his wide receiver, he's not very good.
Like who is I guess that's Pat Mahomes, I guess, okay,
But Mahomes also has one of the greatest tight ends ever.
Burrow does not. I'll ask you, Dan Byer. You're in
there on Sunday, so you're watching all these games. Has
Joe Burro been bad? Or we simply are we doing?
(04:43):
What about ism? Because James Jones thinks other quarterbacks are
getting uh are getting undo under criticism.
Speaker 7 (04:50):
Yeah, I think that's That's how I feel about this,
because you know to your point of of what they've done,
and I know that they pointed to last year. If
you do you want to comment on Burrow's injury history,
I think that's absolutely fair game. I think that's he
was injured his rookie season, he was injured last season.
If you want to talk about his injury, there's questions
(05:11):
about does he have a problem with his wrist. All
of that I think is fair game. But to go
to the Super Bowl, to have the football with seconds
remaining in the game at midfield, still trying to do
something against the Rams, that's an accomplishment of itself. Getting
to the AFC Championship Game and the second time and
(05:34):
not having that penalty of the late hit out of
bounds set up Kansas City for that field goal. He's
accomplished a great amount in a short time, and it
feels like it's what about ism. It feels like it's
overreaction from week one. Why is it Joe Burrow's fault
that Jamar Chase held out for pretty much the entirety
(05:54):
of training camp and was his only available option there. Yeah,
I just I get if you want to say that
he's injury prone and maybe the Bengals is a team
of taking a step back. But to sit there and
say that he's overrated, I just I don't see that.
I don't agree with that. In fact, Doug I went
as far as saying, I'm gonna pick Joe Burrows the
(06:15):
MVP every single year until he wins one, because I
think that's the caliber of quarterback that he is. Picked
him last year, I picked him again this year. Just
gonna keep doing it because he's gonna win an MVP
some year.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So that's what that show is.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I didn't know. I don't I haven't seen the full
facility show.
Speaker 7 (06:33):
I don't know if that's the case, but you know,
you get a lot of overreaction from week one. And
I just again, as I said, when you looked at
how the Bengals were approaching this offseason, and I don't
think that there's resentment towards Burrow getting paid. But when
t Higgins is playing on a franchise tag and Jamar
Chase wants a contract extension, their focus isn't on football.
(06:55):
And then that they're even more important this year with
Joe Mix being gone. You're bringing Zach Moss, you have
Chase Brown there in the backfield, but they're even more
important because of what you don't have in the backfield,
and they're not being available to me is a bigger
problem than maybe people want to realize.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, I just again like it's all about how teams
are constructed, right, It's all about how teams are constructed.
And the example is we'll talk about the Giants and
I think it's a debacle, but that Giants team was
built around Saquon Barkley. So if you don't have Saquon Barkley,
it's going to be more of a house of cards.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
If the Kansa Chiefs don't have Travis Kelce, it becomes
the House of Cards. You know, all of those things
are in fact kind of related. So I'm with you.
I just I haven't seen it. I haven't heard anybody else.
James Jones is literally the first person ever that I've
(07:51):
heard say Joe Burrow has to play better, like he's
not playing And it felt like if you listen to
those it's like all these guys get criticism and every
quarterback gets criticized. Every quarterback gets criticized. That's the nature
(08:12):
of the position, like it's And again, I don't I
didn't watch the show, so I don't know. I don't
know if the nature if the reason. What is the
reason that James believes he doesn't get criticism. Is it
(08:32):
because he's a Bengal and we look at the Bengals
as if they're the poor redheaded stepchild that never gets
any love, so let's not be mean to him and
their quarterback's not that good? Or is because he's white
and we feel like and James feels like black quarterbacks
get more criticism. I don't think either is true or
either is accurate, right, Deshaun Watson gets criticized because he's
(08:54):
not playing well and he has all these sexual assault
allegations off the football field. When Baker Mayfield didn't play
well for Cleveland, it was the same thing. It was
the exact same thing.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
There's just a lot of easy targets in Week one,
and there's no excuse to lose to the Patriots, like
the Cincinnati Bengals did. Absolutely no excuse but to make
this an overall indictment on Joe Burrow. Who Again, if
you want to use the injury history and say, look,
this guy has been injured last year, he missed the
latter part of this year, still getting some of the
(09:36):
rust off from last year, I think all of that
is fair. But when you talk about his accomplishments and
what he's done. Heck, they went to Buffalo and won
a playoff game in the year that they lost in
the AFC Championship game to the Chiefs. We saw what
they did and navigating and beating Kansas City in an
AFC championship game. I think all of that is equity.
(09:56):
When we're talking about quarterbacks and who they are and
what they've done, Joe Burrows accomplished a lot more than
most of these quarterbacks in the National Football Again, when
you're talking about young quarterbacks. I'd have a difficult time
finding who's accomplished more than he has in that short
period of time.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I would agree, And people don't. People forget that everyone
thought Zach Taylor should be fired and then he gets
to the super Bowl and when he's been healthy, they've
been a playoff team and we're talking about the most
difficult division in the sport. I don't care what any
I don't care how bad Pittsburgh's offense was last year,
how bad is this year. It's Pittsburgh, damn Steelers. Their
defense is dynamic, Okay. The Ravens have been really really
(10:36):
good and the Browns, although remember we're a playoff team.
Last year, the Browns were really talented on defense. So
I just again, I'm a I don't get it, but
I would also. I think one of the key elements
to this league that we need to admit is we
don't always pay attention to every team. We just don't like.
(11:01):
Jacksonville had a lead loss to the Dolphins. There's been
no discussion about Jacksonville at all this week because the
only thing we talk about with the Dolphins is Tyreek
Hill getting arrested and then winning the game and doing
a handcuff celebration after the game. There are lots of
teams we don't talk about. We talk about Jets because
they're on Monday Night Football and they have Aaron Rodgers.
(11:22):
Talk about the Giants because everybody knows that they're going
to probably make it. They'll make a quarterback change, probably
make a coaching change in the year as well. And
so many other teams we don't even talk about and
we don't even watch. And I think the Bengals fall
into that and simply going with team wins losses. I
don't know, Like I haven't heard anybody say that Joe
(11:44):
Burrow is not awesome.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
Yeah, And I think that there's a debate if you
throw this out there, like who makes who more? Does
Jamar Chase make Joe Burrow or does Joe Burrow make
Jamar Chase because they've been connected at college and then
they connected in the National Football League, so they obviously
know each other, and it's probably an unfair question to
(12:07):
pick one over the other. But as Jamar Chase, you know,
lead Jamar Chase without Joe Burrow, I don't know that
he is.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, I don't think that's it's like the Belichick and
Brady thing, right, like, it's a great question. It's a
great question. I think what people need to realize is,
I get it, you don't have your wide receivers. You
don't look nearly as good. They didn't look good across
the board. But we'll also remember, like they've lost running
backs in the past couple of years because they're trying
(12:41):
to save their money and they're spending money, a bunch
of money on Burrow. And they've been a slow starting team.
Even the Super Bowl year, they were slow starting team.
It's kind of their mo And this goes to actually
something that Jason likes to bring up is that coaches
don't take the preseason seriously. So the first four game
are usually played at a really low level, and oftentimes
(13:03):
we have a result like that where there's a team
that goes to super Boy, like you lost to who Sure,
and then you remember it's the first four or five
weeks of the season.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
And just to make my point on Jamar Chase on
who is Who? When Joe Burrow went down in mid
November last year, Jamar Chase had games of six catches
eighty one yards. Then they had a shootout victory with
Jake Browning at quarterback where eleven catch excuse me, it
was four catches eighty one yards and then eleven catches
one forty nine and a touchdown for Jamar Chase. And
(13:35):
then over the final month of the season did had
three catches, four catches, three catches and four catches, no touchdowns,
didn't top over sixty four yards.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Do you think he missed Joe Burrow?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
The answers, yes, answers yes.
Speaker 8 (13:50):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I think the question becomes as you listen to Doug
otleib Shwan Fox Sports Radio, Little John Denver for you.
We talked about Joe Burrow and whether or not we
give him a pass basically as what's asked. Do we
give him a pass because we like him because he's
(14:21):
Joe cool, because he dyed his hair, or is James
Jones just going after him because he's doing the what
about is? We'll ask Mike Sando, NFL writer for The Athletic.
He's been covering the NFL for nearly three decades, he'll
join us in a couple of moments. I want to
share with you this. So Colorado State plays Colorado. Remember
last year's game, Browdley, physical game. Colorado State had a
(14:44):
shot I think I had lost in overtime on the
road at Folsom Field. Here's their captain. Colorado State's captain
Tory Horton and Braden Fowler had this to say. But
their matchup with Colorado this week.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
He owed him one and as this time, that's been
sitting on everybody, you know, mine since we came back
from break. You know, we owe them and we walked
away from that game, you know, as you know, we
kind of left it all on the field. I don't
feel like we left it all on the field because
we should.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Have murdered them guys.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
And you know, they came out with that attitude as
they were on top of the world. And this ain't
no Cinderella stories of humble for events.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, I think that's awesome. It was an unbelievably physical game.
Probably my favorite game to watch, not the best game,
but my favorite game to watch last year in college football.
And we got the rematch upcoming this weekend. Nothing wrong
with a good college football rivalry, not at all at
stuck out the show here on Fox Sports Radio, we
(15:45):
mentioned Mike sand of course he joined us to give
us his quarterback tiers, which everybody in football can't you
cannot wait to read. That was going back to the preseason. Now,
of course we're a couple. We're a game into the
regular season. We have week two getting ready to get
underway in myami tonight and he joins us. Now it
writes for the Athletic It's Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Mike,
this is interesting, right, Like Miami usually awesome at home
(16:08):
in September because of the heat. But a lot of
that is when you play those afternoon games in South Florida,
you get that sun beating down on the visiting sideline.
Don't have that tonight, still gonna be warm, Muggy. How
much do you think that changes the game, that you
don't have the sideline effect, that that sunshine almost like
(16:29):
your ants underneath the underneath, like a looking glass sort
of effect.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
Yeah, I think it takes some of the edge off, Doug.
But you're also on a short week for Buffalo too,
so you know, maybe the fatigue factor's still there. I
still think it's a good home field advantage for Miami.
And it's going to be warm, right and I don't
know what the temperature is it's to kickoff, but it's
going to feel warm. There's not going to be a
cool ocean breeze. I wouldn't think like you get sometimes
on the West Coast.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, how did how did did Miami look last weekend?
Speaker 9 (17:03):
Well, I mean they won the game. It was very
close to being broken open for Jacksonville had they you know,
not fumbled going into the end zone. But I think
it was a good first game. You know, they had
the major distraction of the Tyreek Hill situation before and
yet they came out and got it done. So there
were missed opportunities. I mean Tua had had a guy
deep at one point, missed him. But there was a
(17:24):
lot of sloppiness in week one. I think it's big
to get the win, and this would be even bigger
if they can stack a division win against Buffalo they
need to beat in the division.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
There are a lot of people that seem to give
it up on Buffalo's chances to get into super Bowls,
Like ah windows closed, what do you think about their window.
Speaker 9 (17:40):
Yeah, well, I think there's two different windows. There's there's
one window that you're right if you're comparing them to
Kansas City. I have a harder time feeling like they're
going to you know, overcome Kansas City in the playoffs,
likely on the road to go to the super Bowl
and win it. I do believe that they're behind in
getting their defense young and better the way Kansas City
(18:01):
has done. They're just starting trying to, you know, turn
the page with their weaponry. So I think they are
a different type of team. That doesn't mean that they're
bad though, or that they might not win the AFC East.
I think there's still a good team that will be
in it, and you know, with their quarterback, like, I
don't know that I would bet against them to win
the division, even with some of the stuff around them.
(18:22):
So that's all it is. It's a different type of
window to me where it would be more of an
upset if they went and won the super Bowl. But
they're still good and they're going to try to get
it back over the next couple of seasons.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Do the Giants know how bad they are?
Speaker 9 (18:40):
Probably? I mean I would think that a lot of
times you go into the season overrating how good you are.
That does happen, But that had to be a wake
up call in the first game. Not only that they
were one of two home underdogs going into Week one
and they were playing Sam Darnold and they were a
home underdog. So that has to tell you a little
(19:01):
bit about who you you know, who you really are.
The thing that's most interesting to me about them is
if it becomes a lot of season and Daniel Jones
is struggling, They've got a lot of injury guarantees on
him for the future, and that will become a storyline.
If they're you know, oh and three, oh and four,
that's sort of a thing. How long do you keep going?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
You mean shutting him down even though like healthy scratch.
Speaker 9 (19:26):
Well, that will be talked about, just like it was
with Derek Carr at the end of his tenure, if
it really goes off of the rails. I saw another
note too. It was a it was in some kind
of a point spread type newsletter or something I was reading.
I think they're one of the teams that would actually
the point spread value of their backup would be better
(19:49):
than their starter. They might be gain a point in
a spread if if Locke were playing. So I think
that tells you what the opinions are right now. And
you know, there's no you know, it's a huge year
for them. They've all took back the play calling. This
is the quarterback they signed, he's healthy. They got to
make it work.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
They do.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Mike Sanda joining us nflc and writer for the Athletics
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, coming to you from
the TIREC dot Com studios. I'm a big Sam Donald fan.
It's only one game, but what are their early returns
from Minnesota.
Speaker 9 (20:25):
I thought that was a great first game for him.
I don't care if they're playing the Giants or the
Panthers or whoever. Just you know, there had to be
some nerves going in. I didn't look at his career.
You know, it was whatever fifty some starts, and there
were a dozen other games like this one, you know,
where he was efficient, had good numbers. It was a
professional quarterback, starting quarterback level performance. So I thought that
(20:48):
was really good for him. It is unusual, it would
be unusual, it would be an outlier for somebody in
his career. With the state of his career the way
it's gone to come out of that and really rise up.
Let's just say in the quarterback tiers next year. Right,
There's not a lot of cases of somebody in his
situation climbing up into tier three or two. But that
(21:11):
was a promising start, and he does have a chance.
In fact, I used to do a podcast with Randy
Mueller's with the Saints now three times GM, and he
was saying, like, you know, even way back, like don't
be surprised if, if you know, Darnold kind of remakes
himself and you know, gets a job next year with
(21:33):
some you know, decent money on it. So I had
that in the back of my mind a little bit,
and that first game was probably better than I expected.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, no, I it was. It was very very efficient,
very clean. He looked really comfortable. Part of it is
it's basically the same offense he's been running in San Francisco.
Going back to last year, speak of San Francisco, they
throttled the Jets. I don't like. I granted, it's it's
halfway across the country. It's San Francisco. They're really good,
But like Robert Sally, your defense can't stop at the
(22:00):
run game. Don't you know a thing or two about
Kyle Shannan's offense and she coached with him for a
couple of years. How much of that was is the
Niners are just that good, and how much of that
is the Jets are not nearly what some want them
to be.
Speaker 9 (22:14):
Well, Kyle Shanahan knows all about Salid too, So I'm
going to bet on Shanahan in that matchup just I
think he's had such a great schemer and play designers.
So I was alarmed from a Jets standpoint of just
being pushed around as much as anything. I don't know,
you know, if it was a ton of scheme, but
they got really shoved around up front, their defense got
(22:34):
pushed around the Fortiners were scoring on almost every drive.
I think that was alarming. My Jets takeaways were Aaron
Rodgers has not washed. I think he looks pretty good.
I think they'll get better production from their offense as
they go. But the defense was kind of a woe
because I thought they might be better than that. And
we'll see if it was just forty one game, but
(22:55):
that was disappointing from a Jets standpoint.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
To say the least disappointing Chargers. Chargers just outphysicaled the Raiders.
Was that more about the Chargers or more about the Raiders.
Speaker 9 (23:09):
Well, there were three, I think two or three just
huge pivotal plays by the Raiders that read to turnovers.
They had the outlier fourth down play where they didn't
go for it, you know, one of the only times
in my ten years that somebody did in that situation.
So I was struck by this. With the Chargers, they
got great play from their offensive tackles. That is something
to build upon. You've got this quarterback who's talented. You
(23:31):
want to have an identity, you know, in the run
game with your team, and they popped a couple they
got it going. But I thought that was interesting. And
then I'm really anxious to see they had a great
defensive performance. But it's against Gardner Minshew, so you have
to put a little bit of an asterisk by that.
But you know, they've been at bottom five defense, so
we're not expecting top five, top ten. But if they
(23:54):
can get to if you can get the middle of
the pack or you know you're you're higher than twentieth
in defense, it just changes everything. It takes a lot
of pressure off the quarterback. It lets you run the
ball a little bit like they want to do. So
to me, that's like the most interesting thing because I
think they've been way worse on defense than we thought
they were going to be, even though they had hired
a defensive head coach who was supposed to be able.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
To fix it, no question. Mike Sando joining us here
on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Cowboys
end up acquiescing and signing Dak Prescott to a long
term deal. What happened, what changed Jerry Jones was We're
going to let him play it out all in on
this year, and then all of a sudden, Dak's got
an extension.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
What happened.
Speaker 9 (24:36):
I think he always pays his guys, but by sometimes
he just waits and waits and waits and prolongs it
as long as he can to see if maybe he
can not do it, and then he pays them. So
I thought this one had a chance, just because I
thought Dak might push this one because he had such
a great leverage there with the no franchise dagability. He
could have tried to push this to free agency. But
(24:57):
I think in the end, this tells us wanted to
be the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys more than you know,
try to push it for another five million and have
that all season sort of as a storyline. So I
thought it was a good deal for Dak. It's what
happens if you're Jerry and want to get it done
before the year, when you've given away all your negotiating.
He gave away the franchise tags, so that's how you
(25:18):
get the sixty million.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Is there with the new lawsuit out against DeShawn Watson,
is there any way the Browns use it to get
out of his contract. Sure.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
I think we have to see how it proceeds and
see what else is discovered. I think that definitely could happen.
I also think that just because his contract is guaranteed
and he's going to get a certain amount of money, which,
as you said, maybe they try to get out of
that part. But even if they don't, I think it's
possible that the situation becomes untenable enough that he's not
(25:53):
on the team after this year, even if they had
all this financial commitment. We've seen teams move on from
quarterbacks or other players have huge cap hits, like Denver
did this year, because if there's more of these lawsuit
type things swirling and he's not playing good ball, which look,
I'm not going to say the bad ball thing one
(26:13):
game is going to be the whole season, But if
that's the case late in the year, I just don't
see how they sell that to the fan base and
go through that again. It just becomes too much.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Mike Sandos our guest here the Doug Gottlieb Show on
Fox Sports trailer last thing Mike Caleb william seemed to
struggle last week. Bears were good. Caleb was not all
the rookie quarterback struggle. But how much concern is there
over his accuracy in Chicago?
Speaker 9 (26:38):
I'm not going to I think he had enough body
of work in college and the evaluation of him were
good enough that we should expect ups and downs. I
do think that there was going to be a chance
this season early that they were he was going to
be a little hit and miss and big play hunting
a little bit and not as not as consistent down
to down as he'll need to be because he does
(26:59):
have a lot of talent. But I think that was,
you know, also telling us a little bit about Tennessee's defense.
I think it's pretty good. They have Dinard Wilson as
their DC. He comes from Baltimore, same as Mike McDonald's
who had a really good defensive game too against a
rookie quarterback as it was, So I think it was
a combination of those factors. I'm not reading overly too
(27:20):
much into it, sure, I do think there's going to
be ups and downs for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, Well that last week was a bit of a down,
although the team won, so that's a bit of an up,
although we saw Denver, uh and Washington both lose. Mike Sandos,
senior NFL writer with The Athletic, giving cover in the
NFL for nearly three decades. Mike, thanks so much for
joining us great insight. Truly appreciate you.
Speaker 9 (27:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (27:39):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio and Don Do Now
welcome in tyreck dot Com Studios. Jared smithill join us next.
How you'll get us ready for all the gamble except
for the upcoming weekend. Plus, don't call it a throwback Thursday.
I think we break that out up come in top
(28:08):
of the hour. In the meantime, let's get to a game.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
This is Game Time game on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Dan Byer.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
What's the game today, Doug? The game is.
Speaker 8 (28:31):
I feel a draft?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
All right? Now?
Speaker 7 (28:34):
I thought I came up with a good topic, and
that topic was going to be who should the PAC
twelve go after next because they're going to add four
schools in the fall of twenty twenty six, all from
the Mountain West Conference to join Oregon State and Washington State.
But then I added a little bit of a twist
and Iowa Sam is jacked up about this topic what
(28:56):
you miss most about MTV? And I bring it up
because last night, and I don't know if you guys
know this, the VMAs took place the fortieth VMS on MTV,
which used to be must watch TV. Now we didn't
even know it.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Was on TV.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
So I think we're gonna do what you miss most
about MTV and Doug, you will pick first. Sam will
pick second. He may try to trade for all of
our picks. Jason is third, and the nine and fourth,
and we will reverse the order from there.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
This one's the number one pick and no one will
argue it. I miss music videos just the premise, just
music television, VH one, MTV. Who didn't like to watch
a good music video? And like I can probably think
of from five maybe ten that you would never care
(29:55):
about the song otherwise if not for the music video,
YEP show. Yeah, music videos is my answer, fil.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Answer, All right, Sam, you're up.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
Second, I'm going to say shows that are specifically about music.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
What'd you say? Okay? For Dan? Can we get it?
Speaker 6 (30:17):
Like a specific show like head Banger's Ball, perfect your
MTV raps shows.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But yeah, you got to pick one of them.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
Otherwise we're not gonna have anything to say specialized shows
that specialize in actual music. I just can you pick
a specific Okay, you love the Banger's Ball?
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Yeah, well okay, I'm just saying that that there is
an absence on MTV of shows that are specifically about
a genre of music.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
That's my point.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
What is on MTV just reality.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
So here's here's what I wish went through the direct
TV and looked at like the next like four to
six hours, and it is just a repeat of Catfish,
the TV show teen Mom, the next chapter and ridiculousness,
over and over and over again. It just feels like
the replaying stuff. They used to have very specific shows
about certain genres of music and what was hot in
the moment, what is hot in the moment, and they
(31:05):
just don't have that anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Well, they used to have MTV Sports as well, so
they used to have a lot of other shows. But
like Headbangers, don't you don't You don't know about MTV Sports,
do you?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I don't remember that. I remember. I'm old enough they
know about Yeah, hold on, hold on TV.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, what about you, Jase? Do you remember MTV sports?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Right? Vaguely?
Speaker 7 (31:26):
Vaguely it may go along with with my with my answer,
maybe that's where it's down the line.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
But okay, but I'm picking forth Chase in his third So.
Speaker 10 (31:38):
This is going to take a I think the next
fifteen minutes are going to take like a nineteen nineties
turn on the show. And I want to use this
platform and this opportunity to promote a new featured segment
on our show at the top of the hour. Don't
call it a throwback. Don't call it a throwback Thursday,
(31:59):
I'm MTV Unplugged. I remember ten thousand maniacs. I remember Nirvana.
If you were a big act in the nineties, you
had to do MTV unplugged and what it was as
an acoustic version of all your songs. It's become something
known today as YouTube.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
It's a good call.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
There was like Alice in Chains, Eric Clapton, those are
all Stone Temple pilots, all memorable unplugged.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Sure specific albums. Yep, it's funny.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
The Nirvana one was so popular and I think many
people at the time did it.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
It was the best one.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
But I actually I think throughout time maybe Alison Chains
his man.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
That was so good, right, I think Alison Chain's the best.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
The air Clapton one, I think it's like was one
of his better selling albums I think of all time
or well. It was a big, big hit for him,
just doing all a lot of his hit his hits,
so you know, acoustically.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
I remember having the Nerve on a CD and you know,
playing it and the whole deal. But yeah, Alison Change
is magnificent. Got it on, got it on the old phone.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
The other part of that, damn. The other part of
the other part of.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
The Allison Chains thing is this is so when they
come out and they played Nutshell and you're Jerry Cantrell.
It starts and it builds up with each person walking out,
and it's actually better if you're just listening to it
than actually seeing it, because you're imagining what happens. But
an instrument is added each time, and then when Lane
(33:36):
Staley walks out, there's this louder applause because he's the
lead singer, and then he just gets right into it.
It's a great build up.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I know you're such a grunge fan.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
Yeah, you'd be surprised at what I what I'm into.
I'm gonna say this Rockin' jock. So I don't know
if that was combined with the MTV Sports, but I
like the rock and Jock basketball with a fifty point shot.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Sure that was fun.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
And honestly, when they would world premiere a video and
they would hype it, they would, you know, the world
premiere from Guns N' Roses, those things were awesome, like
you would wait, be like, oh my gosh, the new
video is coming out on Tuesday. So when they would
world premiere stuff, I we would sit in throughout the
summer hanging out of my house watching MTV World premiere
(34:23):
of Guns N' Roses, Metallica, Boys to Man, the whole deal.
It was great world premieeres for me. All right, Jason, Wow,
I'm gonna go. I'm going to go the the I
don't even know if it's on TV anymore. I don't
think it is, but Real World was. It was the
first reality show. I think it gets credit for that early.
Real World was really fascinating TV. I have to give
(34:46):
it that.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
And they had, of course road Rules. It's just a
very fun show as well. Kind of that same vein.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Is that who you're taking at seven? You're taking road rules. No,
I'm just adding on to that.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
At seven, I'm taking adult cartoons. Adult cartoons. So when when, uh,
everyone kind of discovered that Ren and Stimpy was really
not for children as more of an adult show. It
went from Nickelodeon over to MTV and they also had
Beams and butt Head, and they'd also have where Beams
and butt Head are watching music videos and making fun
(35:17):
of them, and that was excellent TV. I love it,
shut up awesome, incredibly genius. Mike Judge right there by
your all.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Right, Doug, you got the last pick.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Jackass very good.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
Are you sure that doesn't fall under Sam's all TV
shows on MT Sorry, should have been more specific.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
You should have.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, I missed all TV shows specific music.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Good call, and that's game time.
Speaker 8 (35:59):
Is game time? On The Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Speaking of music video, it's really good music video with
the Llo, cool Jay, right, shirt off, sweat, cango hat, microphone,
just hanging down, spotlight it was. Don't call it a comeback, well,
we got a special segment we're gonna debut up coming next.
Don't call it a throwback. It's been here for zero years.
Next to The Doug Gottlieb Show
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five
Easter twelve, two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching app ask.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Doug otlif Show Fox Sports Radio. Coming to you from
the tyrat dot com Sperio tirat dot com if you
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The crown is yours. That's pretty awesome. That Dan's ready.
(00:42):
I'm ready, We're all fired up. This is just a big,
big time Showkay, big big time show. And we're ready
for Thursday Night football, Thursday Night football. Right, But before
you get to Thursday night foot tell because I think
there's a question. First we have the football becomes about
(01:02):
the quarterbacks, right? It just does it becomes about the quarterbacks,
and tonight we have two a tongue Bailoa who's received
a huge contract extension. And I think it's a fascinating
game because the superpower of the Dolphins at September is
playing at home and the other team is playing underneath
that bright Miami sunshine on that visiting sidelines. That gets
(01:23):
just being down from the gods. And then of course
on the other side, he got Josh Allen, and Josh
Allen is a guy who can, you know, throw a
ball through a brick wall no matter what the weather is.
Josh Allen has his own his own issues, right is
his own issues very much. But I think what's fascinating
about about this this story is it does relate because
(01:46):
last year he got a contract extension. He being Joe Burrow.
Here's former Packers wide receiver current FS one host James
Jones earlier today talking about Joe Burrow.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
We got to start keeping it real for Joe Burrow.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
If la Mar Jackson throw that ball and his toe
ain't out, there's a lot of ifs. If Jalen hursts
look down the middle of the field and recover two
and don't throw it.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
And it ain't.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
It's a lot of ifs, but them dudes take a
lot of heat. Joe Burrow has not been good man
the last two years and starting off this seat, he
ain't been good. He was five and five last year
and then went out with an injury. All right, then
they went four and three without Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow
without top elite wide receivers is average.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
He is.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
But we keep no no for real though, but we
keep we keep living on the Super Bowl appearance, but
we don't live on other stuff for other quarterbacks. Joe
Burrow's not playing good football right now.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
He ain't right, and we keep.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Putting him up there saying he's better than Josh allahe
the number two quarterback in football. But to be honest
with you, the real is he ain't played well the.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Last year and a half.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
He ain't.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
You just lost to the Patriots, man.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Joe Burrow.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
This is the New England Patriots, and you're supposed to
be the second best quarterback in football. Everybody praising that's you,
the only one that could challenge Patrick Mahomes and all this.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Well, the last year and a half you can't. You
have not been a good quarterback.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And if it was any other quarterback, we wouldn't keep saying,
oh man, if this, if that, if that, if this, No,
the man gotta play better and he's not, and you
should be nervous.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's true. I think here's I
think the problem. Here's I think the problem. I think
the problem is no one actually watches the Bengals play football, really,
and and I would I would actually agree with James
(03:40):
Jones from this standpoint. The standpoint is that last year
in the playoffs, like we make it out like the
Bengals defense, but the offense stalled against it was the Chiefs, right,
they'd lost to you, and they had a chance to
win the game. Defense got some stucks, the offense stalled
out some in the second half. And we do give
(04:01):
Joe Burrow a bit of a pass because he led
the Bengals to a super Bowl. But I just I'll
be honest with you. I can't go by overall team
team record. I what I what I can't and don't understand. Okay,
what I can't and don't understand is how we're supposed
to evaluate Joe Burrow when he doesn't have his weaponry, Like, oh,
(04:21):
when he doesn't have his wide receiver, he's not very good.
Like who is I guess that's Pat Mahomes, I guess, okay,
But Mahomes also has one of the greatest tight ends ever.
Burrow does not. I'll ask you, Dan Byer. You're in
there on Sunday, so you're watching all these games. Has
Joe Burro been bad? Or we simply are we doing?
(04:43):
What about ism? Because James Jones thinks other quarterbacks are
getting uh are getting undo under criticism.
Speaker 7 (04:50):
Yeah, I think that's That's how I feel about this,
because you know to your point of of what they've done,
and I know that they pointed to last year. If
you do you want to comment on Burrow's injury history,
I think that's absolutely fair game. I think that's he
was injured his rookie season, he was injured last season.
If you want to talk about his injury, there's questions
(05:11):
about does he have a problem with his wrist. All
of that I think is fair game. But to go
to the Super Bowl, to have the football with seconds
remaining in the game at midfield, still trying to do
something against the Rams, that's an accomplishment of itself. Getting
to the AFC Championship Game and the second time and
(05:34):
not having that penalty of the late hit out of
bounds set up Kansas City for that field goal. He's
accomplished a great amount in a short time, and it
feels like it's what about ism. It feels like it's
overreaction from week one. Why is it Joe Burrow's fault
that Jamar Chase held out for pretty much the entirety
(05:54):
of training camp and was his only available option there. Yeah,
I just I get if you want to say that
he's injury prone and maybe the Bengals is a team
of taking a step back. But to sit there and
say that he's overrated, I just I don't see that.
I don't agree with that. In fact, Doug I went
as far as saying, I'm gonna pick Joe Burrows the
(06:15):
MVP every single year until he wins one, because I
think that's the caliber of quarterback that he is. Picked
him last year, I picked him again this year. Just
gonna keep doing it because he's gonna win an MVP
some year.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So that's what that show is.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I didn't know. I don't I haven't seen the full
facility show.
Speaker 7 (06:33):
I don't know if that's the case, but you know,
you get a lot of overreaction from week one. And
I just again, as I said, when you looked at
how the Bengals were approaching this offseason, and I don't
think that there's resentment towards Burrow getting paid. But when
t Higgins is playing on a franchise tag and Jamar
Chase wants a contract extension, their focus isn't on football.
(06:55):
And then that they're even more important this year with
Joe Mix being gone. You're bringing Zach Moss, you have
Chase Brown there in the backfield, but they're even more
important because of what you don't have in the backfield,
and they're not being available to me is a bigger
problem than maybe people want to realize.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, I just again like it's all about how teams
are constructed, right, It's all about how teams are constructed.
And the example is we'll talk about the Giants and
I think it's a debacle, but that Giants team was
built around Saquon Barkley. So if you don't have Saquon Barkley,
it's going to be more of a house of cards.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
If the Kansa Chiefs don't have Travis Kelce, it becomes
the House of Cards. You know, all of those things
are in fact kind of related. So I'm with you.
I just I haven't seen it. I haven't heard anybody else.
James Jones is literally the first person ever that I've
(07:51):
heard say Joe Burrow has to play better, like he's
not playing And it felt like if you listen to
those it's like all these guys get criticism and every
quarterback gets criticized. Every quarterback gets criticized. That's the nature
(08:12):
of the position, like it's And again, I don't I
didn't watch the show, so I don't know. I don't
know if the nature if the reason. What is the
reason that James believes he doesn't get criticism. Is it
(08:32):
because he's a Bengal and we look at the Bengals
as if they're the poor redheaded stepchild that never gets
any love, so let's not be mean to him and
their quarterback's not that good? Or is because he's white
and we feel like and James feels like black quarterbacks
get more criticism. I don't think either is true or
either is accurate, right, Deshaun Watson gets criticized because he's
(08:54):
not playing well and he has all these sexual assault
allegations off the football field. When Baker Mayfield didn't play
well for Cleveland, it was the same thing. It was
the exact same thing.
Speaker 7 (09:13):
There's just a lot of easy targets in Week one,
and there's no excuse to lose to the Patriots, like
the Cincinnati Bengals did. Absolutely no excuse but to make
this an overall indictment on Joe Burrow. Who Again, if
you want to use the injury history and say, look,
this guy has been injured last year, he missed the
latter part of this year, still getting some of the
(09:36):
rust off from last year, I think all of that
is fair. But when you talk about his accomplishments and
what he's done. Heck, they went to Buffalo and won
a playoff game in the year that they lost in
the AFC Championship game to the Chiefs. We saw what
they did and navigating and beating Kansas City in an
AFC championship game. I think all of that is equity.
(09:56):
When we're talking about quarterbacks and who they are and
what they've done, Joe Burrows accomplished a lot more than
most of these quarterbacks in the National Football Again, when
you're talking about young quarterbacks. I'd have a difficult time
finding who's accomplished more than he has in that short
period of time.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I would agree, And people don't. People forget that everyone
thought Zach Taylor should be fired and then he gets
to the super Bowl and when he's been healthy, they've
been a playoff team and we're talking about the most
difficult division in the sport. I don't care what any
I don't care how bad Pittsburgh's offense was last year,
how bad is this year. It's Pittsburgh, damn Steelers. Their
defense is dynamic, Okay. The Ravens have been really really
(10:36):
good and the Browns, although remember we're a playoff team.
Last year, the Browns were really talented on defense. So
I just again, I'm a I don't get it, but
I would also. I think one of the key elements
to this league that we need to admit is we
don't always pay attention to every team. We just don't like.
(11:01):
Jacksonville had a lead loss to the Dolphins. There's been
no discussion about Jacksonville at all this week because the
only thing we talk about with the Dolphins is Tyreek
Hill getting arrested and then winning the game and doing
a handcuff celebration after the game. There are lots of
teams we don't talk about. We talk about Jets because
they're on Monday Night Football and they have Aaron Rodgers.
(11:22):
Talk about the Giants because everybody knows that they're going
to probably make it. They'll make a quarterback change, probably
make a coaching change in the year as well. And
so many other teams we don't even talk about and
we don't even watch. And I think the Bengals fall
into that and simply going with team wins losses. I
don't know, Like I haven't heard anybody say that Joe
(11:44):
Burrow is not awesome.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
Yeah, And I think that there's a debate if you
throw this out there, like who makes who more? Does
Jamar Chase make Joe Burrow or does Joe Burrow make
Jamar Chase because they've been connected at college and then
they connected in the National Football League, so they obviously
know each other, and it's probably an unfair question to
(12:07):
pick one over the other. But as Jamar Chase, you know,
lead Jamar Chase without Joe Burrow, I don't know that
he is.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, I don't think that's it's like the Belichick and
Brady thing, right, like, it's a great question. It's a
great question. I think what people need to realize is,
I get it, you don't have your wide receivers. You
don't look nearly as good. They didn't look good across
the board. But we'll also remember, like they've lost running
backs in the past couple of years because they're trying
(12:41):
to save their money and they're spending money, a bunch
of money on Burrow. And they've been a slow starting team.
Even the Super Bowl year, they were slow starting team.
It's kind of their mo And this goes to actually
something that Jason likes to bring up is that coaches
don't take the preseason seriously. So the first four game
are usually played at a really low level, and oftentimes
(13:03):
we have a result like that where there's a team
that goes to super Boy, like you lost to who Sure,
and then you remember it's the first four or five
weeks of the season.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
And just to make my point on Jamar Chase on
who is Who? When Joe Burrow went down in mid
November last year, Jamar Chase had games of six catches
eighty one yards. Then they had a shootout victory with
Jake Browning at quarterback where eleven catch excuse me, it
was four catches eighty one yards and then eleven catches
one forty nine and a touchdown for Jamar Chase. And
(13:35):
then over the final month of the season did had
three catches, four catches, three catches and four catches, no touchdowns,
didn't top over sixty four yards.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Do you think he missed Joe Burrow?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
The answers, yes, answers yes.
Speaker 8 (13:50):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I think the question becomes as you listen to Doug
otleib Shwan Fox Sports Radio, Little John Denver for you.
We talked about Joe Burrow and whether or not we
give him a pass basically as what's asked. Do we
give him a pass because we like him because he's
(14:21):
Joe cool, because he dyed his hair, or is James
Jones just going after him because he's doing the what
about is? We'll ask Mike Sando, NFL writer for The Athletic.
He's been covering the NFL for nearly three decades, he'll
join us in a couple of moments. I want to
share with you this. So Colorado State plays Colorado. Remember
last year's game, Browdley, physical game. Colorado State had a
(14:44):
shot I think I had lost in overtime on the
road at Folsom Field. Here's their captain. Colorado State's captain
Tory Horton and Braden Fowler had this to say. But
their matchup with Colorado this week.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
He owed him one and as this time, that's been
sitting on everybody, you know, mine since we came back
from break. You know, we owe them and we walked
away from that game, you know, as you know, we
kind of left it all on the field. I don't
feel like we left it all on the field because
we should.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Have murdered them guys.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
And you know, they came out with that attitude as
they were on top of the world. And this ain't
no Cinderella stories of humble for events.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, I think that's awesome. It was an unbelievably physical game.
Probably my favorite game to watch, not the best game,
but my favorite game to watch last year in college football.
And we got the rematch upcoming this weekend. Nothing wrong
with a good college football rivalry, not at all at
stuck out the show here on Fox Sports Radio, we
(15:45):
mentioned Mike sand of course he joined us to give
us his quarterback tiers, which everybody in football can't you
cannot wait to read. That was going back to the preseason. Now,
of course we're a couple. We're a game into the
regular season. We have week two getting ready to get
underway in myami tonight and he joins us. Now it
writes for the Athletic It's Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Mike,
this is interesting, right, Like Miami usually awesome at home
(16:08):
in September because of the heat. But a lot of
that is when you play those afternoon games in South Florida,
you get that sun beating down on the visiting sideline.
Don't have that tonight, still gonna be warm, Muggy. How
much do you think that changes the game, that you
don't have the sideline effect, that that sunshine almost like
(16:29):
your ants underneath the underneath, like a looking glass sort
of effect.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
Yeah, I think it takes some of the edge off, Doug.
But you're also on a short week for Buffalo too,
so you know, maybe the fatigue factor's still there. I
still think it's a good home field advantage for Miami.
And it's going to be warm, right and I don't
know what the temperature is it's to kickoff, but it's
going to feel warm. There's not going to be a
cool ocean breeze. I wouldn't think like you get sometimes
on the West Coast.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, how did how did did Miami look last weekend?
Speaker 9 (17:03):
Well, I mean they won the game. It was very
close to being broken open for Jacksonville had they you know,
not fumbled going into the end zone. But I think
it was a good first game. You know, they had
the major distraction of the Tyreek Hill situation before and
yet they came out and got it done. So there
were missed opportunities. I mean Tua had had a guy
deep at one point, missed him. But there was a
(17:24):
lot of sloppiness in week one. I think it's big
to get the win, and this would be even bigger
if they can stack a division win against Buffalo they
need to beat in the division.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
There are a lot of people that seem to give
it up on Buffalo's chances to get into super Bowls,
Like ah windows closed, what do you think about their window.
Speaker 9 (17:40):
Yeah, well, I think there's two different windows. There's there's
one window that you're right if you're comparing them to
Kansas City. I have a harder time feeling like they're
going to you know, overcome Kansas City in the playoffs,
likely on the road to go to the super Bowl
and win it. I do believe that they're behind in
getting their defense young and better the way Kansas City
(18:01):
has done. They're just starting trying to, you know, turn
the page with their weaponry. So I think they are
a different type of team. That doesn't mean that they're
bad though, or that they might not win the AFC East.
I think there's still a good team that will be
in it, and you know, with their quarterback, like, I
don't know that I would bet against them to win
the division, even with some of the stuff around them.
(18:22):
So that's all it is. It's a different type of
window to me where it would be more of an
upset if they went and won the super Bowl. But
they're still good and they're going to try to get
it back over the next couple of seasons.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Do the Giants know how bad they are?
Speaker 9 (18:40):
Probably? I mean I would think that a lot of
times you go into the season overrating how good you are.
That does happen, But that had to be a wake
up call in the first game. Not only that they
were one of two home underdogs going into Week one
and they were playing Sam Darnold and they were a
home underdog. So that has to tell you a little
(19:01):
bit about who you you know, who you really are.
The thing that's most interesting to me about them is
if it becomes a lot of season and Daniel Jones
is struggling, They've got a lot of injury guarantees on
him for the future, and that will become a storyline.
If they're you know, oh and three, oh and four,
that's sort of a thing. How long do you keep going?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
You mean shutting him down even though like healthy scratch.
Speaker 9 (19:26):
Well, that will be talked about, just like it was
with Derek Carr at the end of his tenure, if
it really goes off of the rails. I saw another
note too. It was a it was in some kind
of a point spread type newsletter or something I was reading.
I think they're one of the teams that would actually
the point spread value of their backup would be better
(19:49):
than their starter. They might be gain a point in
a spread if if Locke were playing. So I think
that tells you what the opinions are right now. And
you know, there's no you know, it's a huge year
for them. They've all took back the play calling. This
is the quarterback they signed, he's healthy. They got to
make it work.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
They do.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Mike Sanda joining us nflc and writer for the Athletics
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, coming to you from
the TIREC dot Com studios. I'm a big Sam Donald fan.
It's only one game, but what are their early returns
from Minnesota.
Speaker 9 (20:25):
I thought that was a great first game for him.
I don't care if they're playing the Giants or the
Panthers or whoever. Just you know, there had to be
some nerves going in. I didn't look at his career.
You know, it was whatever fifty some starts, and there
were a dozen other games like this one, you know,
where he was efficient, had good numbers. It was a
professional quarterback, starting quarterback level performance. So I thought that
(20:48):
was really good for him. It is unusual, it would
be unusual, it would be an outlier for somebody in
his career. With the state of his career the way
it's gone to come out of that and really rise up.
Let's just say in the quarterback tiers next year. Right,
There's not a lot of cases of somebody in his
situation climbing up into tier three or two. But that
(21:11):
was a promising start, and he does have a chance.
In fact, I used to do a podcast with Randy
Mueller's with the Saints now three times GM, and he
was saying, like, you know, even way back, like don't
be surprised if, if you know, Darnold kind of remakes
himself and you know, gets a job next year with
(21:33):
some you know, decent money on it. So I had
that in the back of my mind a little bit,
and that first game was probably better than I expected.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, no, I it was. It was very very efficient,
very clean. He looked really comfortable. Part of it is
it's basically the same offense he's been running in San Francisco.
Going back to last year, speak of San Francisco, they
throttled the Jets. I don't like. I granted, it's it's
halfway across the country. It's San Francisco. They're really good,
But like Robert Sally, your defense can't stop at the
(22:00):
run game. Don't you know a thing or two about
Kyle Shannan's offense and she coached with him for a
couple of years. How much of that was is the
Niners are just that good, and how much of that
is the Jets are not nearly what some want them
to be.
Speaker 9 (22:14):
Well, Kyle Shanahan knows all about Salid too, So I'm
going to bet on Shanahan in that matchup just I
think he's had such a great schemer and play designers.
So I was alarmed from a Jets standpoint of just
being pushed around as much as anything. I don't know,
you know, if it was a ton of scheme, but
they got really shoved around up front, their defense got
(22:34):
pushed around the Fortiners were scoring on almost every drive.
I think that was alarming. My Jets takeaways were Aaron
Rodgers has not washed. I think he looks pretty good.
I think they'll get better production from their offense as
they go. But the defense was kind of a woe
because I thought they might be better than that. And
we'll see if it was just forty one game, but
(22:55):
that was disappointing from a Jets standpoint.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
To say the least disappointing Chargers. Chargers just outphysicaled the Raiders.
Was that more about the Chargers or more about the Raiders.
Speaker 9 (23:09):
Well, there were three, I think two or three just
huge pivotal plays by the Raiders that read to turnovers.
They had the outlier fourth down play where they didn't
go for it, you know, one of the only times
in my ten years that somebody did in that situation.
So I was struck by this. With the Chargers, they
got great play from their offensive tackles. That is something
to build upon. You've got this quarterback who's talented. You
(23:31):
want to have an identity, you know, in the run
game with your team, and they popped a couple they
got it going. But I thought that was interesting. And
then I'm really anxious to see they had a great
defensive performance. But it's against Gardner Minshew, so you have
to put a little bit of an asterisk by that.
But you know, they've been at bottom five defense, so
we're not expecting top five, top ten. But if they
(23:54):
can get to if you can get the middle of
the pack or you know you're you're higher than twentieth
in defense, it just changes everything. It takes a lot
of pressure off the quarterback. It lets you run the
ball a little bit like they want to do. So
to me, that's like the most interesting thing because I
think they've been way worse on defense than we thought
they were going to be, even though they had hired
a defensive head coach who was supposed to be able.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
To fix it, no question. Mike Sando joining us here
on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Cowboys
end up acquiescing and signing Dak Prescott to a long
term deal. What happened, what changed Jerry Jones was We're
going to let him play it out all in on
this year, and then all of a sudden, Dak's got
an extension.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
What happened.
Speaker 9 (24:36):
I think he always pays his guys, but by sometimes
he just waits and waits and waits and prolongs it
as long as he can to see if maybe he
can not do it, and then he pays them. So
I thought this one had a chance, just because I
thought Dak might push this one because he had such
a great leverage there with the no franchise dagability. He
could have tried to push this to free agency. But
(24:57):
I think in the end, this tells us wanted to
be the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys more than you know,
try to push it for another five million and have
that all season sort of as a storyline. So I
thought it was a good deal for Dak. It's what
happens if you're Jerry and want to get it done
before the year, when you've given away all your negotiating.
He gave away the franchise tags, so that's how you
(25:18):
get the sixty million.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Is there with the new lawsuit out against DeShawn Watson,
is there any way the Browns use it to get
out of his contract. Sure.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
I think we have to see how it proceeds and
see what else is discovered. I think that definitely could happen.
I also think that just because his contract is guaranteed
and he's going to get a certain amount of money, which,
as you said, maybe they try to get out of
that part. But even if they don't, I think it's
possible that the situation becomes untenable enough that he's not
(25:53):
on the team after this year, even if they had
all this financial commitment. We've seen teams move on from
quarterbacks or other players have huge cap hits, like Denver
did this year, because if there's more of these lawsuit
type things swirling and he's not playing good ball, which look,
I'm not going to say the bad ball thing one
(26:13):
game is going to be the whole season, But if
that's the case late in the year, I just don't
see how they sell that to the fan base and
go through that again. It just becomes too much.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Mike Sandos our guest here the Doug Gottlieb Show on
Fox Sports trailer last thing Mike Caleb william seemed to
struggle last week. Bears were good. Caleb was not all
the rookie quarterback struggle. But how much concern is there
over his accuracy in Chicago?
Speaker 9 (26:38):
I'm not going to I think he had enough body
of work in college and the evaluation of him were
good enough that we should expect ups and downs. I
do think that there was going to be a chance
this season early that they were he was going to
be a little hit and miss and big play hunting
a little bit and not as not as consistent down
to down as he'll need to be because he does
(26:59):
have a lot of talent. But I think that was,
you know, also telling us a little bit about Tennessee's defense.
I think it's pretty good. They have Dinard Wilson as
their DC. He comes from Baltimore, same as Mike McDonald's
who had a really good defensive game too against a
rookie quarterback as it was, So I think it was
a combination of those factors. I'm not reading overly too
(27:20):
much into it, sure, I do think there's going to
be ups and downs for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, Well that last week was a bit of a down,
although the team won, so that's a bit of an up,
although we saw Denver, uh and Washington both lose. Mike Sandos,
senior NFL writer with The Athletic, giving cover in the
NFL for nearly three decades. Mike, thanks so much for
joining us great insight. Truly appreciate you.
Speaker 9 (27:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (27:39):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio and Don Do Now
welcome in tyreck dot Com Studios. Jared smithill join us next.
How you'll get us ready for all the gamble except
for the upcoming weekend. Plus, don't call it a throwback Thursday.
I think we break that out up come in top
(28:08):
of the hour. In the meantime, let's get to a game.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
This is Game Time game on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Dan Byer.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
What's the game today, Doug? The game is.
Speaker 8 (28:31):
I feel a draft?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
All right? Now?
Speaker 7 (28:34):
I thought I came up with a good topic, and
that topic was going to be who should the PAC
twelve go after next because they're going to add four
schools in the fall of twenty twenty six, all from
the Mountain West Conference to join Oregon State and Washington State.
But then I added a little bit of a twist
and Iowa Sam is jacked up about this topic what
(28:56):
you miss most about MTV? And I bring it up
because last night, and I don't know if you guys
know this, the VMAs took place the fortieth VMS on MTV,
which used to be must watch TV. Now we didn't
even know it.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Was on TV.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
So I think we're gonna do what you miss most
about MTV and Doug, you will pick first. Sam will
pick second. He may try to trade for all of
our picks. Jason is third, and the nine and fourth,
and we will reverse the order from there.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
This one's the number one pick and no one will
argue it. I miss music videos just the premise, just
music television, VH one, MTV. Who didn't like to watch
a good music video? And like I can probably think
of from five maybe ten that you would never care
(29:55):
about the song otherwise if not for the music video,
YEP show. Yeah, music videos is my answer, fil.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Answer, All right, Sam, you're up.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
Second, I'm going to say shows that are specifically about music.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
What'd you say? Okay? For Dan? Can we get it?
Speaker 6 (30:17):
Like a specific show like head Banger's Ball, perfect your
MTV raps shows.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But yeah, you got to pick one of them.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
Otherwise we're not gonna have anything to say specialized shows
that specialize in actual music. I just can you pick
a specific Okay, you love the Banger's Ball?
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Yeah, well okay, I'm just saying that that there is
an absence on MTV of shows that are specifically about
a genre of music.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
That's my point.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
What is on MTV just reality.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
So here's here's what I wish went through the direct
TV and looked at like the next like four to
six hours, and it is just a repeat of Catfish,
the TV show teen Mom, the next chapter and ridiculousness,
over and over and over again. It just feels like
the replaying stuff. They used to have very specific shows
about certain genres of music and what was hot in
the moment, what is hot in the moment, and they
(31:05):
just don't have that anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Well, they used to have MTV Sports as well, so
they used to have a lot of other shows. But
like Headbangers, don't you don't You don't know about MTV Sports,
do you?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I don't remember that. I remember. I'm old enough they
know about Yeah, hold on, hold on TV.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, what about you, Jase? Do you remember MTV sports?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Right? Vaguely?
Speaker 7 (31:26):
Vaguely it may go along with with my with my answer,
maybe that's where it's down the line.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
But okay, but I'm picking forth Chase in his third So.
Speaker 10 (31:38):
This is going to take a I think the next
fifteen minutes are going to take like a nineteen nineties
turn on the show. And I want to use this
platform and this opportunity to promote a new featured segment
on our show at the top of the hour. Don't
call it a throwback. Don't call it a throwback Thursday,
(31:59):
I'm MTV Unplugged. I remember ten thousand maniacs. I remember Nirvana.
If you were a big act in the nineties, you
had to do MTV unplugged and what it was as
an acoustic version of all your songs. It's become something
known today as YouTube.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
It's a good call.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
There was like Alice in Chains, Eric Clapton, those are
all Stone Temple pilots, all memorable unplugged.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Sure specific albums. Yep, it's funny.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
The Nirvana one was so popular and I think many
people at the time did it.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
It was the best one.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
But I actually I think throughout time maybe Alison Chains
his man.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
That was so good, right, I think Alison Chain's the best.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
The air Clapton one, I think it's like was one
of his better selling albums I think of all time
or well. It was a big, big hit for him,
just doing all a lot of his hit his hits,
so you know, acoustically.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
I remember having the Nerve on a CD and you know,
playing it and the whole deal. But yeah, Alison Change
is magnificent. Got it on, got it on the old phone.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
The other part of that, damn. The other part of
the other part of.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
The Allison Chains thing is this is so when they
come out and they played Nutshell and you're Jerry Cantrell.
It starts and it builds up with each person walking out,
and it's actually better if you're just listening to it
than actually seeing it, because you're imagining what happens. But
an instrument is added each time, and then when Lane
(33:36):
Staley walks out, there's this louder applause because he's the
lead singer, and then he just gets right into it.
It's a great build up.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I know you're such a grunge fan.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
Yeah, you'd be surprised at what I what I'm into.
I'm gonna say this Rockin' jock. So I don't know
if that was combined with the MTV Sports, but I
like the rock and Jock basketball with a fifty point shot.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Sure that was fun.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
And honestly, when they would world premiere a video and
they would hype it, they would, you know, the world
premiere from Guns N' Roses, those things were awesome, like
you would wait, be like, oh my gosh, the new
video is coming out on Tuesday. So when they would
world premiere stuff, I we would sit in throughout the
summer hanging out of my house watching MTV World premiere
(34:23):
of Guns N' Roses, Metallica, Boys to Man, the whole deal.
It was great world premieeres for me. All right, Jason, Wow,
I'm gonna go. I'm going to go the the I
don't even know if it's on TV anymore. I don't
think it is, but Real World was. It was the
first reality show. I think it gets credit for that early.
Real World was really fascinating TV. I have to give
(34:46):
it that.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
And they had, of course road Rules. It's just a
very fun show as well. Kind of that same vein.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Is that who you're taking at seven? You're taking road rules. No,
I'm just adding on to that.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
At seven, I'm taking adult cartoons. Adult cartoons. So when when, uh,
everyone kind of discovered that Ren and Stimpy was really
not for children as more of an adult show. It
went from Nickelodeon over to MTV and they also had
Beams and butt Head, and they'd also have where Beams
and butt Head are watching music videos and making fun
(35:17):
of them, and that was excellent TV. I love it,
shut up awesome, incredibly genius. Mike Judge right there by
your all.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Right, Doug, you got the last pick.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Jackass very good.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
Are you sure that doesn't fall under Sam's all TV
shows on MT Sorry, should have been more specific.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
You should have.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, I missed all TV shows specific music.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Good call, and that's game time.
Speaker 8 (35:59):
Is game time? On The Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Speaking of music video, it's really good music video with
the Llo, cool Jay, right, shirt off, sweat, cango hat, microphone,
just hanging down, spotlight it was. Don't call it a comeback, well,
we got a special segment we're gonna debut up coming next.
Don't call it a throwback. It's been here for zero years.
Next to The Doug Gottlieb Show
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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