June 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Doug weighs in on the controversy in Indianapolis where Caitlin Clark got into a couple of confrontational situations with the opposing team and how the officials chose to handle it. Doug welcomes Outkick talk show host and long-time basketball coach/analyst Dan Dakich onto the show to talk Caitlin Clark, the Pacers and much more. Plus, Dan Beyer takes Doug through a game of "For Better or Worse?".
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hope you are having a spectacular day. Buckle up, gonna
be a good two hour ride, and doc atsho is
mister Indianapolis to join us in.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Twenty five minutes. Twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
In regards to sports on television this evening, eh, eh,
I mean, what do you got?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
What do you know?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You heard that tomorrow night is could be the last
NBA basketball game of the year. Obviously, does feel like
Summer League starts like next week and then we get,
you know, get the draft in summer league, et cetera.
But we'll keep talking about and we'll ask Dan Dakich
his thoughts on Halliburton. Would he do would he play
him if he wasn't fully healthy?
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Feels like now's the time in which you take a
shot The problem is if you take a shot in
the calf, you can play, but you're probably gonna damage
your calf even worse and it'd be very hard to
see you playing in Game seven. That's I'll explain later
on the show. But we can get to NBA stuff.
We still have a day. We got some Major League
(01:37):
Baseball stuff, a wild game at the Ravine between the
Padres and the Dodgers. We have some NFL things to
talk to talk about, including Henry Ruggs plading for forgiveness
and should he play in the National Football League. But
let's let's get to everyone's topic. To Jore, it's Kaitlin
(02:00):
Clark and the Indiana.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Pre Here's fever.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Head coach Stephanie White went off on the WNBA's officiating.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
I think it was pretty obvious that stuff was brewing,
right when the officials don't get control of the ballgame
when they allow that stuff to happen. And it's been
happening all season long, all season long. It's not just
this game, it's been happening all season long. This is
what happens, right, This is what happens. You've got competitive
women who are the best in the world at what
they do right. And when you allow them to play
(02:28):
physical and you allow these things to happen, they're going
to compete and they're going to have their teammates backs.
It's exactly what you expect right out of fierce competition.
So I started talking to the officials in the first quarter,
and we knew this was going to happen. You could
tell what was going to happen. So they got to
get control of it. They got to be better. Every
year when we have our league meetings in the fallen
(02:50):
in the spring, we say the same thing over and
over and over and nothing has changed.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Like, look, their job is hard.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
You know, the game has changed so much. Players are faster,
they're better, they're bigger, they're stronger. You know, they're as
good as they've ever been there, as athletic as they've
ever been.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
The game is.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Fast now, things are happening quickly. Everybody's getting better except
the officials. So we got to find a way to
remedy it. I mean, you've heard every coach talk about it,
So I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So a lot of good in there, and really smart
from Stephane White, who's a former tremendous player in her
own right in that instead of calling out the Connecticut
Sun and making about them and they're overly physical approach
and a lot of the pushing and the shoving whatever,
she made it about the officials, which is smart because
(03:46):
you know everybody hates officials.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's like an easy one and she's not wrong either.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Where you got to know when it's why the start
of the second half oftentimes you'll see things get really
tight with officiating because they go into the locker room
and the officials talk like, hey, we got to clean
this stuff up, and there'll be some ridiculous calls early,
but it really kind of levels it out. That's quality efficiating.
(04:10):
But if we get down to it, what's behind it?
What's behind it is is I think a twofold one.
It's the belief that the only way you can play
Caitlyn Clark is to play her physical. If you allow
her too much space, she'll kill you. And two, I
think that covers for the fact that there's a lot
of jealousy over the attention, the money, you know, the
(04:33):
fame that's that she's received for her part. Caitlyn Clark,
they won he laughs, last, always lasts best. She shot
a good percentage, had twenty and six assists, and oh yeah,
by the way, when she was in the game, her
team was a plus thirty one. I think all of
(04:54):
this signifies that she's trending towards being the best player
in the league.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's my you'll take away.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Because, believe it or not, again, I'm not saying she's
Jordan or will be the Jordan of women's basketball, but
a lot of this stuff feels like what Michael Jordan
went through. First year, disfunctional team, unbelievable signs of things
(05:21):
to come. But remember Jordan's first All Star game, he
got froze out by Isaiah Thomas.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Why jealousy? Okay, they're trying to put him in his.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Place, just like the team USA Basketball last year not
selecting her. Why put her in place? Jealousy? You know,
want to make sure she earns it first. Also, she
went to a terrible team. They let go of the coach.
I hired a more competent coach and surrounded her with
(05:51):
better players, and slowly but truly they built. And while
he was a player, dudes, would you know how many
times the Pistons knock him on his ass while he
was playing.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Again.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I'm not saying she's Michael Jordan, but there are some
parallels to the Michael Jordan effect and things he went
through that I think Caitlin Clark is going through.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And you do. You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
You don't have to do the Tom Brady or anytime
you breathe on her you throw somebody out of a game,
but you do have to protect your primary assets. And
she is an absolute asset to this work. And man,
did that get out of control?
Speaker 7 (06:30):
Yes, Stambyre, I think that the comparison to what Jordan
went through his spot on, I felt that the Connecticut
Connecticut Son were the Detroit Pistons of nineteen eighty seven
before Jordan ends up taking over the league a few
years later and becomes the enormous superstar that he is.
The thing that I thought was interesting last night that
(06:51):
I now watch in all of these little scuffles is
to see what her teammates do. And I think that
the Sophie Cunningham foul at the end of the game
was another great sign for the Caitlin Clark fans on
how this has kind of evolved from a year ago.
And also if you watch how certain players still aren't
(07:13):
coming to her defense. And that's what I find so
intriguing about this is there's been progress made, just like
there was with Jordan in eighty seven, but there's no
Charles Oakley there right now. Now, Sophie Cunningham's like, all right,
I'll take that role. So she goes and commitched the fouls.
But I'm still not sure everybody is all in on
(07:33):
the Caitlin Clark thing. I don't know if you guys
watch that, but I watched to see what players come
to her defense, who tries to challenge the other player.
The biggest takeaway I had last night was that Sophie
Cunningham was like, Okay, I'll be that person. I'll be
that person to stick up and be her teammate, because
last year there was really none of that.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah. One of my takeaways is how many people out
there know who Tina Charles is. I mean, I do,
I know?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Dan?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You do. I'm guessing Sam you do as well.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
Right, Yeah, she's she's on the side.
Speaker 8 (08:08):
She's been in the league.
Speaker 9 (08:09):
She's like one of the all time scorers, greatest scorers
in the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Right, right, She's a great all time player. But here's
what I believe is part of what's happening, and the
Jordan thing is part of it. There's a little magic
bird as well, but magic people seen to love.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Bird. There was a little bit of mix. Obviously.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I think some of it was because he's white, some
of the attention that he got. But Tina Charles is
one of the greatest women's basketball players ever ever. And
I'm not a historian for the wn for the women's
basketball game, but I know enough to know that Tina
Charles is one of the great players. Average thirty six
years old, been doing it since college, been crushed ever since,
always average double figures. She's a She's a double double machine.
(08:56):
But the average fan, even the w NBA fan, if
you say Tina Charles actually a good player, there's no
that era didn't resonate at all. So what happens with
so many of these women is they just get jealous.
Just like you're hearing people who talk about how we
(09:17):
commentate on the league, how we comment on the league,
our opinions the league, well you don't know, you just
started following the league.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Whatever. That's how they feel about players.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Kaylin Clark's getting all this shine Tina Charles like, I
was a great player for fifteen years and nobody gave
a rip. Nobody, And so you're getting their teammates feel
that and it becomes a let's show her whose boss here.
It's the weirdest league ever ever because it used to
(09:53):
exist and nobody would talk about so many stuff because
nobody cared. You know, it's a league where because of
some people's sexual preference, you'll have players dating other players
on or on other teams. It will affect who you keep,
who you trade. Your whole mojo of a team can
be effected based upon the relationships within the team, within
(10:14):
other teams, or sometimes even with coaches or people of management.
Like that's a real thing, and straight versus gay people
don't always get along. That's aside from all the other
factors that happen with women. If some women who are
straight and they leave the league to have kids and
then come back, that's happened. It's such a different dynamic.
(10:37):
But many of their a lot of these issues are
it's like or how you know, the pushing and the
shoving and the throwing of punches. It's like the men's game,
only it feels like a cartoon version of it, because
it's even more intense for no apparent reason, no apparent reason.
(11:02):
And I think the one thing I do understand, if
you're Tina Charles, you're an older player and you feel,
you know, you may feel like, hey, the best way
to player is to rougher up. The best way to
make sure this team understands that they're not that great
is to rough them up. Okay, but also keep in
mind that if you ask anybody, and I know people
(11:23):
who are in Indianapolis, we can ask Doc Hitts just
coming on. He came on last week and he's like,
the crowd at those games are all moms and little girls.
You've got to be really careful now that your league
is getting so much promotion and attention that you don't
scare away or chase away the most important viewers or
(11:47):
attenders in the.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Short and long term future.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right, it's got to be a summer family bring your
daughter to a sporting event sort of thing, and that
stuff look terrible. It's not that I care if girls fight.
I'm not one of those dudes that get super creepy
and into it when women fight.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's just the league is trying to be something that
I'm telling you will chase their fans away because whether
or not you and I Dan, or you and I Sam,
or you and I J Stu like, yeah, let him fight. Oh,
it's like theck Ben's care, Like let them actually fight.
The fact is that the biggest consumers, the ones that
(12:32):
make a change, the ones that are gonna make Kitlin
Clark a multi millionaire ten times over, is little girls
and their moms, and they don't want to see that.
Speaker 9 (12:43):
Yes, Sam, I will say, though, I think there is
still like a roller derby element to the WNBA. There's
you know, the prodding and in the scratching, and I
mean the officiating. Like this goes back to Kelsey Plum,
like a week or two ago. You know, she had
this scratch across her face. She's like, I can't get
foul called. You know, I think that it's not just
teams singling out Kitlyn Clark and trying to you know,
(13:06):
rougher up. There is a problem with the officiating. Stephanie
White was absolutely correct, and I think with more money
pouring in the league, these refs either need to be
replaced by better refs or they need to go undergo
training because she's absolutely right. The quality of play is higher,
the speed is increased. They need to do a better job.
The officiating is bad. But yes, But to your point though,
there's definitely still teams and individual players who are gunning
(13:29):
for Kaitlyn Clark to maybe make it onto Sports Center.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
You know, the J. C.
Speaker 9 (13:32):
Sheldons of the world who played and graduated in the
same class from Ohiose State as Caitlin Clark did. So,
you know, I think that you want to keep some
of that roller derby element, but yeah, you want to
make it family friendly. You want it to be an
ooh and ah and gasping and watching the game, and
there should be a little bit of a little bit
of a mixing it up there.
Speaker 7 (13:51):
You know, I don't think the G. C. Sheldon thing
is anything that is should go away. Yeah, No, I
think the main thing is the stuff that stands out.
That's what I think the cheap shot from her coming in.
You're always going to have players fighting and going at it.
And as he said, they played against each other in college,
(14:11):
so there's there's history there that could be rivalries there.
Stuff like that's going to happen. People do get poked
in the eye, but it's the cheap shot and then
the response by some afterwards that I think is the
part that's considered to hear check right, yes, yes, yes,
they came right after yes.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yes.
Speaker 9 (14:28):
That stuff is like it goes back to the uh Kennedy, Uh,
I'm blanking our last name from.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
A Yeah, she tried to rough right right at the
beginning last year.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There is one other point that I want to make
that I didn't previously, and so I apologize to all
of you. And this is what Stephanie White is saying
is true. Okay, here's the quiet power out loud. We
have female officials in the men's game. There I had
won last year who I thought was actually really good. Okay,
but several of them are not good enough. And here
(15:02):
is what's that issue. And I think Stephanie points it out.
And she's a former player, and she's a woman, she's
a coach. But my as a as a man who
played and I've coached, and this happened to the youth level,
especially once you get to like eighth grade, and now
when you're at the college level, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
A very very fast, very very physical game.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And if you didn't play it at a level, especially
the men's game is at or above the rim, and
the physicality is so much greater than anything you've experienced
as a female player. And if you didn't play, you
got no shot. But most of the women who officiate
played on some level. But it's so much more athletic
(15:44):
and physical that they're calling plays that they don't. They
just they're they're late and they don't have great perspective
on and they miss them. And then the other part
to it, and this is not what happened last night,
but I think what will happen is a lot like
(16:05):
we're just being us. Men and women are wired differently, right,
They're wired differently women are, And we can say it's
a double standard, we can talk about it unfair, it is,
but they are judged differently than men are, right, judgeably
the men are and because of that, it breeds insecurity, right,
(16:26):
And when you're when you have some of the coaches
and a lot of the big name players saying you
stink you're not any good constantly, and then you fuel
it with we all know that fans all think anything
that anytime your team.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Loses, it's the official's fault.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
They become overreactive and super defensive, and then they screw
up the game by calling everything, which is, by the way,
the next step in what happens in aficiing Kitlin Clark's game. Again,
this is not me saying, oh, Regautler's saying, who's anti
email referee? No, I'm anti any referee who isn't capable
of doing their job. Man, woman, I don't care if
(17:05):
your trance doesn't matter to me. Just want somebody to
officiate the game. Or a foul at one end is
a foul at the other end. A violation one end
is a violation at the other. But I will tell
you from personal experience, I feel like they really struggle.
Women really struggle to handle the men's game because of
the physicality and plays at the rim, two things that
(17:28):
they weren't a part of when they played, and they
make it's a tough adjustment to understand how to officiate
it when it's so much more physical, so much more
athletic than anything they're used to. Listen Doug Gotlieb Show,
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Speaker 7 (18:02):
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Speaker 3 (18:26):
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Speaker 2 (18:31):
Ready for a new job at Express Professional Express employee
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Dan Dokitch. Of course, he hosts a show called Don't
at Me on OutKick dot Com. He's been ahead assistant
(18:52):
coaching in college. He's been longtime college basketball's longtime radio
show host. As well, he joins us on The Doug
Gotlieb Show. Start with Caitlyn Clark obviously double dfollow you
on social media.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
What's your opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Of, for example, last night's game, which seemed to spin
a little bit out of control in terms of physicality.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Yeah, you know, my wife, would coach for a long time,
disagrees with me. But I thought that what happened last
night with Caitlyn Clark was a normal basketball reaction. I
thought the girl Sheldon guarding her was guarding her tough
and hit her in the face. I didn't think I
thought it was accidental. And then Caitlyn got up and
(19:34):
reacted like you would react, right, You're a little pissed off,
you a little mad, you react. And then somebody on
the other team defended their teammate. I really, honestly, I
didn't have any problem with any of it. You know,
I know that you know the girl came over Maybury
and hit her. I think Caitlyn's a bit of a flopper,
(19:55):
tell you truth, I think you know that's what I saw.
I just felt was like this was I don't know
if this was in guys, basketball, or if it wasn't
Kaitlyn Clark, I don't think anybody would have had a
big issue, but you know, it is Kaitlyn Clark, and
I think everything gets you know, everything gets like accelerated, exasperated.
(20:17):
I just thought it was a basketball thing that happens
in basketball.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But there is the Stephanie White, their head coach said like, hey,
the only thing that hasn't gotten better than the sport
is officiating. I think a lot of the men would
men would say the same thing. My personal thing is this,
Dan Again, this is one year of coaching, being head
coaching college basketball, and I coached pretty high level of
AAU basketball and once the guys get to the level
(20:46):
that the game is a level of physicality that I
think female officials aren't used to, and a level of athleticism.
Especially I always I felt like they were always late,
a little bit late on some of the calls, and
you can't guess. And I will say one of the
better officials we had this year was a woman, but
(21:07):
a couple of the other ones were not nearly as good.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
We're not up to par. And I thought a lot
of it was again the.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Struggle to adjust to physicality and athleticism, which is really
what Stephanie White pointed out.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Last night after the game. I'm just wondering your assessment.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right, Well, here's a female game, female officials, and yet
they're being roundly criticized by females, not just my men.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
If we're going to be honest, which he really he
couldn't be for a long time. John Adams, who was
a long time elate John Adams, longtime director of official
A lot of people think he's the best guy ever
to monitor officials, told me very clearly is two years
ago I think he said there's nine women officials in
(21:51):
college basketball, men's college basketblay, eight of them shouldn't be
officiating junior high basketball. And you know, so WNBA has
to figure out are we a DEI program or are
we going to get the best officials. And it's clear
because Stephanie and I know people in the organization, the
(22:12):
whole league is disgusted with officiating. But well, you know,
we got to have this certain person. We gotta have
that certain person. You know, we gotta have this look,
we gotta have that look. You know. But if you're
gonna be honest and you're gonna grow a league. Yeah,
I hope everybody develops into being a great official and
you run programs at grassroots levels and things like that,
(22:33):
Doug as you know. But you know the bottom line
is you got to have it's all good until it
determines an outcome or somebody's fighting and there's a problem
like you had last night. I always admired Stephanie why
she was a great player, better person, and you know
she just took that head on. The league is getting better.
The players are getting better, and by better, she's also
(22:54):
i think including more physical, faster, and more athletic. But
the officials aren't. And you know that's on the league
if if you're going to elevate people because of something
other than being the best at your craft, and that's
what you're going to get. And again I go back
to what you know, what John Adams said, but that's
(23:15):
all across sports. He asked me one time I wasn't
even meeting with him. He asked me one time I
was going to lunch and he happened to be there.
He goes, Hey, Dan, he goes, I'm making out NCAA assignments.
You know, a good African American official on the West
Coast that I can put in the tournament. I go, John,
and I I mean, I'm I'm doing gaged. I mean,
but that's how So it's not just it's not just
(23:39):
the you know, the w NBA, it's it's all across
of fishing and personally as a coach and as a
broadcaster watching the fish, I didn't give a damn whether
the guy was black, white, green or printple. You know,
there are some guys get in there and you're like,
I don't want that guy. You know, that guy stinks
on the road. That guy stinks at home. I always
said Teddy Valentine was the best official to have when
(24:02):
you're on the road because he wasn't afraid and you know,
I mean he but he got wrongly criticized, but he
did a great job. So it's all across sports. You
just hire the best people and figure it out. At WNBA,
by their own ambition.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Doesn't do that stuck out leave show here on Fox
Sports Tradio. Let's go to the NBA Tyr's Haliburton. How
bad do you think the cav actually is.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I don't think it's bad. I don't I think it's
an easy narrative. I wanted him, you know, I watched
him move. I thought the bigger problem was lou Dort.
Lou Dort's become like my favorite all time basketball player.
Back in the day, lou Dort would have just been
a defensive guy. Lou Dort made threes. Lou Dort man,
he ain't afraid. I mean, he is a mother and Doug.
(24:48):
I went to Game three, and I didn't know lou
Dort not gonna lie. I knew the name. I know
he's a defensive guy. I knew all that. But I'm
sitting close enough in Game three here in Indy Or
I could see his face, and this was a determined
guy on every single possession, didn't take one off. Maybe
he got beat because he's Guarden, a good player. But
(25:10):
I think Halliburton's problem was it wasn't a lower leg
or whatever they hell their conic cat. I think it
was lou Dort. I think Luccort kicked his ass in
in game five. And you know, if they're going to win,
Number one, he's got to play. Number two, he's got
to play really well, and number three he can't do
that passive stuff that he does. You know, the way
(25:32):
you beat a terrific defense. You know, we learned this garden,
you know, playing against Coach Katie's teams when they were
really good with playing Robinson. You go right at him,
you drive right at him. Pacers didn't do that until
later on in the first half, and TJ McConnell made
a living doing that. You go right act them. It's
like a shot bocker, you go right active. And Halliburton
(25:53):
kept going left and right. He wasn't going forward, and
lou Dort man he got locked in. You know this,
you can get high does the defender. You can get
really hot as a defender. You know, you can know
that you've got that guy in your hip pocket. You're
making it moves on him defensively before he makes them offensively.
And that's what it seemed like Dort did did to Halliburton.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Stut Gottlieb show here on Fox Sports Radio. I love
that you love lou Dort. I mean he's no that
that whole. I mean, you have Lou Dort and Caruso
who are unbelievable versatile defenders, and you know, the guys
that score get the shine, but they're probably just as
important just as moving moving the thunder if they can
(26:40):
win a championship. What's the likelihood that Indiana forces the
game seven?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
What's it like or what's a likelihood.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
What's the likelihood?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
You know, Doug first two games, even though the Pacers
won Game one, I didn't think the Pacers were nearly
as good. I thought they got their ask kicked for
about what ninety of the ninety six minutes, and then
all of a sudden, I went to game three, I
watched game four, game five, and the Pacers did what
they normally don't do, which is give the ball up
late in games. They were nine and one and whatever
(27:13):
that whatever it means clutch games in the playoffs, and
now they're nine and three because they've you know, they
turned it over. And one thing about the Pacers, particularly Haliburton,
he don't turn it over. He's been fifteen to zip
in the playoffs. So I feel like the Pacers gonna
win game six. I don't know if they can go
in there and win game seven. You know, everybody says, well,
you take your chances on a game seven. Hell yeah,
(27:34):
But I feel like everybody told me that Okase was
so much better. And they were games one and two again,
even though the Pacers made that miraculous come back. But
I think PACER's gonna win here game six. And I'm
not being a homer. Hell you know that. I tell
you whether I thought they were gonna get blown out,
but I will say this. Haliburton doesn't play, then you
(27:57):
know that ain't happening. But I'm they fairly, fairly, fairly
certain he's gonna play.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Cooper Flag, what do you do?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I think he's great. I think he's I said this,
he I always thought in my world. Now, Magic Johnson
was the best freshman prospect that I ever saw. That
goes way back. Cooper Flags right there with him. Like
but but but you know, what's he gonna do when
he gets money? What's he gonna do when he gets fame?
(28:30):
What's he gonna do? Is he gonna you know, is
he gonna go do with Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning, Tiger Woods? Uh,
Magic Johnson? You know Lebron Is he gonna go be
fanatical about being a pro or is he gonna settle?
Because I think the dude has every every talent that
you want. I mean, what doesn't he do? And you know,
Doug I was I learned this long time ago. You
(28:53):
kind of judge guys. Okay, would they be basketball players
if they were six feet tall? Oh yeah, he'd be
a really good one. He just happens to be six
foot nine. I love him. I think he is a
great prospect in every area. But you know, what's he
gonna do? What's he gonna It's like tech Nicola said
(29:13):
the Tiger Woods. You know what, he should break my record.
He's better. He's the best golf for ever. But what's
gonna happen when he gets a wife and kids? And
what in the NBA is gonna happen when you get
all that fame? Are you're gonna be in the club
or you're gonna be working out it? You can be fanatical,
you can be insane. You know. Paton Manning used to
drive from here after workouts to Columbus, Ohio to throw
(29:35):
with Anthony Gonzalez, the first round pick, because Gonzales couldn't
be here he was in school. I mean, are you
gonna do stuff like that or are you just gonna
go along? I don't know, but I think he's a
great prospect.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Awesome stuff. Dan Dowcas the show is called Don't at
Me it's on OutKick. It's outstanding, so is Dad w D.
Thanks for joining us, man, Thanks.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Brother, anytime you know that, say buddy.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
At s Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I want
to make sure this is clear. Okay, we're playing for you,
Willy Nelson, because Willie Nelson announced he's no longer smoking weed.
And if you read it, it's not he's not giving
it up because he's like doing something altruistic, like I'm
giving it up because it's a bad like. No, No,
he's given up because he's just his lungs are fried.
(30:26):
But oftentimes when you play somebody like Willie on the radio,
people would think at ninety two years old he has passed.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
He has not.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Willie Nelson still healthy enough. Just said he stopped smoking weed.
And that's where Sam was listening and appreciate that. With
the bumper music. You listen to us now because you
know you can see us. Hey, be sure check out
the Fox Sports Trido YouTube channel. Just search Fox Sports
Trado on YouTube and you see whole bunch of video
highlights for our shows. Subscribes, you always have instant access
to our Fox Sports radio shows. With that, I get
(30:55):
you a game with Dan Byer.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
All right, Doug, the game today is for better or worse?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
All right?
Speaker 7 (31:13):
For better or worse? We're talking June's series, NBA Finals
versus Stanley Cup Final. What's been better or worse?
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Doug?
Speaker 7 (31:24):
Did you take in any of the hockey.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, they've got a lot of the hockey.
Speaker 7 (31:29):
Last night it was what do they say, fitte? Is
that a good French? I don't know, Sam, how would
you say it?
Speaker 4 (31:39):
It was?
Speaker 7 (31:39):
It was over, it was done.
Speaker 6 (31:41):
We come from France.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
It was pretty much over before it started. But what's
been a better series? We had a couple of overtime
games in the Stanley Cup Final. It's over there er
Rex three to row, yes, I believe actually with three
then three games?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Three games?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Game two for the NBA Finals was a snooze. Other
games have been very competitive. I think NBA Finals have
been better.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I do.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I think it's very close. I almost feel like Nick mackay,
push push, I'll go push.
Speaker 7 (32:28):
I actually think that this series is mirrored how the
teams have played. Maybe Florida is a little bit better
than what Oklahoma City is, but Florida was just better
than Edmonton in the final. All right, moving on for
better or worse celebration when you win a title NBA
versus NHL.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
NHL is far better, not close skating around with the
puck a day with the staying around with the cup
a day with the cup, not club.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
Yeah, I agree with that. The team picture, yeah you
have yep again. I told you about my heartbreak in
my NHL video game a decade and a half ago
when I did win a season. When I bought the game,
I think I bought NHL eighteen. It's the one with
Austin Matthews on the cover. I took a picture when
(33:22):
I won the Stanley Cup of my team winning the
cup because that was one of the graphics they put
in the game. It means a lot, really does.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And you know I was.
Speaker 9 (33:31):
I had the coverage on and they spend a solid
twenty minutes where each guy is going around the yeah,
the rink and with the cup above his head, and
like each guy gets to take a couple laps and
it's like a really drawn out, but everyone's just cheering.
I mean it is quite celebration.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
It's tradition.
Speaker 7 (33:48):
It's a good one, all right. For better or worse.
Nickname Doug Thunder versus Pacers Push Push, Jason Sam, you
want to you want to weigh in on any of this.
Speaker 9 (34:05):
I think Pacers is is cool. I mean goes back
to the obviously this the racing yes aspect, and I
just started saying PACER's gonna pace during this playoff and
it means nothing. I think they're yes sirs, Yeah, yes, sir,
cool shirts, yeahs.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
I think there's an always an issue with me with
teams that are not plural, teams that don't have an
S on the name. It just never quite sits right
with me. So I'll never except though.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Let me tell you on on Oklahoma City, right, the
tornadoes wouldn't have worked, right, but twisters underdoes twisters? I
don't know then you would have had to Is it
trademarked with the Mattel game?
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Right?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
They had a storm warning? Remember was it during game two?
There was a game game two last night. My kids
were in the cellar because there was a tornado warning
in North Oklahoma City.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
So I think they both fit.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Indies synonymous with the Indy five hundred that's the pace car,
and with Oklahoma City synonymous with a lot of things
oil and gas industry, but also Tornado Alley and the
nicest way to get Tornado Alley's the thunder kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
It works like.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I just like the fact that I don't think there's
other teams that are also the Pacers, where there's you're
not going to have a lacrosse league.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Team, or you know, is there another high school the thunder.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
I think that there's. I bet you there's way more
Thunder than there are Pacers in other team sports for sure.
Has to be such a trendy sort of thing. Into
Jason's point in the West at the end, Yeah, I
would bet. I would bet. Well, I'll do some research,
(35:56):
okay for better or worse Doug World, So you're going
into your own research, Yeah, do my own research. World
series baseball versus softball, Oklahoma City versus Omaha, not the cities,
but baseball or softball? What do you like better?
Speaker 3 (36:14):
I call me crazy. I like women's softball better.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
There's a reason why it's a question. Yeah, there's a
reason why it's a question.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
No, it's.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I do think there's something There's always been something cool
about Omaha, right, and the setup of Omaha where old
Rosenblatt Stadium and now the new stadium is located, and
it's a big event for the city. It's not as
much a big event for Oklahoma City. But the actual games,
I don't know, they're just exciting. And again you go
from I pay a little bit of attention to college
(36:45):
baseball to the College World Series. I pay no attention
to softball, then love the series, Softball stuck. Got Leab
show here on Fox Sports Radio the Midway. You're waiting
for all week.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It's next
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five
Easter twelve, two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching app as car Boom, What Up America,
Doug Gottlieb Show, Bie Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hope you are having a spectacular day. Buckle up, gonna
be a good two hour ride, and doc atsho is
mister Indianapolis to join us in.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Twenty five minutes. Twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
In regards to sports on television this evening, eh, eh,
I mean, what do you got?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
What do you know?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You heard that tomorrow night is could be the last
NBA basketball game of the year. Obviously, does feel like
Summer League starts like next week and then we get,
you know, get the draft in summer league, et cetera.
But we'll keep talking about and we'll ask Dan Dakich
his thoughts on Halliburton. Would he do would he play
him if he wasn't fully healthy?
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Feels like now's the time in which you take a
shot The problem is if you take a shot in
the calf, you can play, but you're probably gonna damage
your calf even worse and it'd be very hard to
see you playing in Game seven. That's I'll explain later
on the show. But we can get to NBA stuff.
We still have a day. We got some Major League
(01:37):
Baseball stuff, a wild game at the Ravine between the
Padres and the Dodgers. We have some NFL things to
talk to talk about, including Henry Ruggs plading for forgiveness
and should he play in the National Football League. But
let's let's get to everyone's topic. To Jore, it's Kaitlin
(02:00):
Clark and the Indiana.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Pre Here's fever.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Head coach Stephanie White went off on the WNBA's officiating.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
I think it was pretty obvious that stuff was brewing,
right when the officials don't get control of the ballgame
when they allow that stuff to happen. And it's been
happening all season long, all season long. It's not just
this game, it's been happening all season long. This is
what happens, right, This is what happens. You've got competitive
women who are the best in the world at what
they do right. And when you allow them to play
(02:28):
physical and you allow these things to happen, they're going
to compete and they're going to have their teammates backs.
It's exactly what you expect right out of fierce competition.
So I started talking to the officials in the first quarter,
and we knew this was going to happen. You could
tell what was going to happen. So they got to
get control of it. They got to be better. Every
year when we have our league meetings in the fallen
(02:50):
in the spring, we say the same thing over and
over and over and nothing has changed.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Like, look, their job is hard.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
You know, the game has changed so much. Players are faster,
they're better, they're bigger, they're stronger. You know, they're as
good as they've ever been there, as athletic as they've
ever been.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
The game is.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Fast now, things are happening quickly. Everybody's getting better except
the officials. So we got to find a way to
remedy it. I mean, you've heard every coach talk about it,
So I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So a lot of good in there, and really smart
from Stephane White, who's a former tremendous player in her
own right in that instead of calling out the Connecticut
Sun and making about them and they're overly physical approach
and a lot of the pushing and the shoving whatever,
she made it about the officials, which is smart because
(03:46):
you know everybody hates officials.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's like an easy one and she's not wrong either.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Where you got to know when it's why the start
of the second half oftentimes you'll see things get really
tight with officiating because they go into the locker room
and the officials talk like, hey, we got to clean
this stuff up, and there'll be some ridiculous calls early,
but it really kind of levels it out. That's quality efficiating.
(04:10):
But if we get down to it, what's behind it?
What's behind it is is I think a twofold one.
It's the belief that the only way you can play
Caitlyn Clark is to play her physical. If you allow
her too much space, she'll kill you. And two, I
think that covers for the fact that there's a lot
of jealousy over the attention, the money, you know, the
(04:33):
fame that's that she's received for her part. Caitlyn Clark,
they won he laughs, last, always lasts best. She shot
a good percentage, had twenty and six assists, and oh yeah,
by the way, when she was in the game, her
team was a plus thirty one. I think all of
(04:54):
this signifies that she's trending towards being the best player
in the league.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's my you'll take away.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Because, believe it or not, again, I'm not saying she's
Jordan or will be the Jordan of women's basketball, but
a lot of this stuff feels like what Michael Jordan
went through. First year, disfunctional team, unbelievable signs of things
(05:21):
to come. But remember Jordan's first All Star game, he
got froze out by Isaiah Thomas.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Why jealousy? Okay, they're trying to put him in his.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Place, just like the team USA Basketball last year not
selecting her. Why put her in place? Jealousy? You know,
want to make sure she earns it first. Also, she
went to a terrible team. They let go of the coach.
I hired a more competent coach and surrounded her with
(05:51):
better players, and slowly but truly they built. And while
he was a player, dudes, would you know how many
times the Pistons knock him on his ass while he
was playing.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Again.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I'm not saying she's Michael Jordan, but there are some
parallels to the Michael Jordan effect and things he went
through that I think Caitlin Clark is going through.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And you do. You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
You don't have to do the Tom Brady or anytime
you breathe on her you throw somebody out of a game,
but you do have to protect your primary assets. And
she is an absolute asset to this work. And man,
did that get out of control?
Speaker 7 (06:30):
Yes, Stambyre, I think that the comparison to what Jordan
went through his spot on, I felt that the Connecticut
Connecticut Son were the Detroit Pistons of nineteen eighty seven
before Jordan ends up taking over the league a few
years later and becomes the enormous superstar that he is.
The thing that I thought was interesting last night that
(06:51):
I now watch in all of these little scuffles is
to see what her teammates do. And I think that
the Sophie Cunningham foul at the end of the game
was another great sign for the Caitlin Clark fans on
how this has kind of evolved from a year ago.
And also if you watch how certain players still aren't
(07:13):
coming to her defense. And that's what I find so
intriguing about this is there's been progress made, just like
there was with Jordan in eighty seven, but there's no
Charles Oakley there right now. Now, Sophie Cunningham's like, all right,
I'll take that role. So she goes and commitched the fouls.
But I'm still not sure everybody is all in on
(07:33):
the Caitlin Clark thing. I don't know if you guys
watch that, but I watched to see what players come
to her defense, who tries to challenge the other player.
The biggest takeaway I had last night was that Sophie
Cunningham was like, Okay, I'll be that person. I'll be
that person to stick up and be her teammate, because
last year there was really none of that.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah. One of my takeaways is how many people out
there know who Tina Charles is. I mean, I do,
I know?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Dan?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You do. I'm guessing Sam you do as well.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
Right, Yeah, she's she's on the side.
Speaker 8 (08:08):
She's been in the league.
Speaker 9 (08:09):
She's like one of the all time scorers, greatest scorers
in the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Right, right, She's a great all time player. But here's
what I believe is part of what's happening, and the
Jordan thing is part of it. There's a little magic
bird as well, but magic people seen to love.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Bird. There was a little bit of mix. Obviously.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I think some of it was because he's white, some
of the attention that he got. But Tina Charles is
one of the greatest women's basketball players ever ever. And
I'm not a historian for the wn for the women's
basketball game, but I know enough to know that Tina
Charles is one of the great players. Average thirty six
years old, been doing it since college, been crushed ever since,
always average double figures. She's a She's a double double machine.
(08:56):
But the average fan, even the w NBA fan, if
you say Tina Charles actually a good player, there's no
that era didn't resonate at all. So what happens with
so many of these women is they just get jealous.
Just like you're hearing people who talk about how we
(09:17):
commentate on the league, how we comment on the league,
our opinions the league, well you don't know, you just
started following the league.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Whatever. That's how they feel about players.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Kaylin Clark's getting all this shine Tina Charles like, I
was a great player for fifteen years and nobody gave
a rip. Nobody, And so you're getting their teammates feel
that and it becomes a let's show her whose boss here.
It's the weirdest league ever ever because it used to
(09:53):
exist and nobody would talk about so many stuff because
nobody cared. You know, it's a league where because of
some people's sexual preference, you'll have players dating other players
on or on other teams. It will affect who you keep,
who you trade. Your whole mojo of a team can
be effected based upon the relationships within the team, within
(10:14):
other teams, or sometimes even with coaches or people of management.
Like that's a real thing, and straight versus gay people
don't always get along. That's aside from all the other
factors that happen with women. If some women who are
straight and they leave the league to have kids and
then come back, that's happened. It's such a different dynamic.
(10:37):
But many of their a lot of these issues are
it's like or how you know, the pushing and the
shoving and the throwing of punches. It's like the men's game,
only it feels like a cartoon version of it, because
it's even more intense for no apparent reason, no apparent reason.
(11:02):
And I think the one thing I do understand, if
you're Tina Charles, you're an older player and you feel,
you know, you may feel like, hey, the best way
to player is to rougher up. The best way to
make sure this team understands that they're not that great
is to rough them up. Okay, but also keep in
mind that if you ask anybody, and I know people
(11:23):
who are in Indianapolis, we can ask Doc Hitts just
coming on. He came on last week and he's like,
the crowd at those games are all moms and little girls.
You've got to be really careful now that your league
is getting so much promotion and attention that you don't
scare away or chase away the most important viewers or
(11:47):
attenders in the.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Short and long term future.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right, it's got to be a summer family bring your
daughter to a sporting event sort of thing, and that
stuff look terrible. It's not that I care if girls fight.
I'm not one of those dudes that get super creepy
and into it when women fight.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's just the league is trying to be something that
I'm telling you will chase their fans away because whether
or not you and I Dan, or you and I Sam,
or you and I J Stu like, yeah, let him fight. Oh,
it's like theck Ben's care, Like let them actually fight.
The fact is that the biggest consumers, the ones that
(12:32):
make a change, the ones that are gonna make Kitlin
Clark a multi millionaire ten times over, is little girls
and their moms, and they don't want to see that.
Speaker 9 (12:43):
Yes, Sam, I will say, though, I think there is
still like a roller derby element to the WNBA. There's
you know, the prodding and in the scratching, and I
mean the officiating. Like this goes back to Kelsey Plum,
like a week or two ago. You know, she had
this scratch across her face. She's like, I can't get
foul called. You know, I think that it's not just
teams singling out Kitlyn Clark and trying to you know,
(13:06):
rougher up. There is a problem with the officiating. Stephanie
White was absolutely correct, and I think with more money
pouring in the league, these refs either need to be
replaced by better refs or they need to go undergo
training because she's absolutely right. The quality of play is higher,
the speed is increased. They need to do a better job.
The officiating is bad. But yes, But to your point though,
there's definitely still teams and individual players who are gunning
(13:29):
for Kaitlyn Clark to maybe make it onto Sports Center.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
You know, the J. C.
Speaker 9 (13:32):
Sheldons of the world who played and graduated in the
same class from Ohiose State as Caitlin Clark did. So,
you know, I think that you want to keep some
of that roller derby element, but yeah, you want to
make it family friendly. You want it to be an
ooh and ah and gasping and watching the game, and
there should be a little bit of a little bit
of a mixing it up there.
Speaker 7 (13:51):
You know, I don't think the G. C. Sheldon thing
is anything that is should go away. Yeah, No, I
think the main thing is the stuff that stands out.
That's what I think the cheap shot from her coming in.
You're always going to have players fighting and going at it.
And as he said, they played against each other in college,
(14:11):
so there's there's history there that could be rivalries there.
Stuff like that's going to happen. People do get poked
in the eye, but it's the cheap shot and then
the response by some afterwards that I think is the
part that's considered to hear check right, yes, yes, yes,
they came right after yes.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yes.
Speaker 9 (14:28):
That stuff is like it goes back to the uh Kennedy, Uh,
I'm blanking our last name from.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
A Yeah, she tried to rough right right at the
beginning last year.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There is one other point that I want to make
that I didn't previously, and so I apologize to all
of you. And this is what Stephanie White is saying
is true. Okay, here's the quiet power out loud. We
have female officials in the men's game. There I had
won last year who I thought was actually really good. Okay,
but several of them are not good enough. And here
(15:02):
is what's that issue. And I think Stephanie points it out.
And she's a former player, and she's a woman, she's
a coach. But my as a as a man who
played and I've coached, and this happened to the youth level,
especially once you get to like eighth grade, and now
when you're at the college level, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
A very very fast, very very physical game.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And if you didn't play it at a level, especially
the men's game is at or above the rim, and
the physicality is so much greater than anything you've experienced
as a female player. And if you didn't play, you
got no shot. But most of the women who officiate
played on some level. But it's so much more athletic
(15:44):
and physical that they're calling plays that they don't. They
just they're they're late and they don't have great perspective
on and they miss them. And then the other part
to it, and this is not what happened last night,
but I think what will happen is a lot like
(16:05):
we're just being us. Men and women are wired differently, right,
They're wired differently women are, And we can say it's
a double standard, we can talk about it unfair, it is,
but they are judged differently than men are, right, judgeably
the men are and because of that, it breeds insecurity, right,
(16:26):
And when you're when you have some of the coaches
and a lot of the big name players saying you
stink you're not any good constantly, and then you fuel
it with we all know that fans all think anything
that anytime your team.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Loses, it's the official's fault.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
They become overreactive and super defensive, and then they screw
up the game by calling everything, which is, by the way,
the next step in what happens in aficiing Kitlin Clark's game. Again,
this is not me saying, oh, Regautler's saying, who's anti
email referee? No, I'm anti any referee who isn't capable
of doing their job. Man, woman, I don't care if
(17:05):
your trance doesn't matter to me. Just want somebody to
officiate the game. Or a foul at one end is
a foul at the other end. A violation one end
is a violation at the other. But I will tell
you from personal experience, I feel like they really struggle.
Women really struggle to handle the men's game because of
the physicality and plays at the rim, two things that
(17:28):
they weren't a part of when they played, and they
make it's a tough adjustment to understand how to officiate
it when it's so much more physical, so much more
athletic than anything they're used to. Listen Doug Gotlieb Show,
You're on Fox Sports Radio. For over forty years, Tyrak
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Speaker 7 (18:02):
Down to the final five seconds rets rain down Fort
Stanley's staying in South Florida, Last Dear what's greatness?
Speaker 6 (18:10):
This time?
Speaker 4 (18:11):
It's historic the Florida.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Panthers turf back to back Stanley Cup champions.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
App, It's Doug Gotlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Ready for a new job at Express Professional Express employee
professionals help. We'll Express helps people in all industries fine work.
Our sweet spot is logistics Roles Express Deever Church's job
seekers of Fego to Expresspros dot Com. Let's welcome in
Dan Dokitch. Of course, he hosts a show called Don't
at Me on OutKick dot Com. He's been ahead assistant
(18:52):
coaching in college. He's been longtime college basketball's longtime radio
show host. As well, he joins us on The Doug
Gotlieb Show. Start with Caitlyn Clark obviously double dfollow you
on social media.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
What's your opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Of, for example, last night's game, which seemed to spin
a little bit out of control in terms of physicality.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Yeah, you know, my wife, would coach for a long time,
disagrees with me. But I thought that what happened last
night with Caitlyn Clark was a normal basketball reaction. I
thought the girl Sheldon guarding her was guarding her tough
and hit her in the face. I didn't think I
thought it was accidental. And then Caitlyn got up and
(19:34):
reacted like you would react, right, You're a little pissed off,
you a little mad, you react. And then somebody on
the other team defended their teammate. I really, honestly, I
didn't have any problem with any of it. You know,
I know that you know the girl came over Maybury
and hit her. I think Caitlyn's a bit of a flopper,
(19:55):
tell you truth, I think you know that's what I saw.
I just felt was like this was I don't know
if this was in guys, basketball, or if it wasn't
Kaitlyn Clark, I don't think anybody would have had a
big issue, but you know, it is Kaitlyn Clark, and
I think everything gets you know, everything gets like accelerated, exasperated.
(20:17):
I just thought it was a basketball thing that happens
in basketball.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But there is the Stephanie White, their head coach said like, hey,
the only thing that hasn't gotten better than the sport
is officiating. I think a lot of the men would
men would say the same thing. My personal thing is this,
Dan Again, this is one year of coaching, being head
coaching college basketball, and I coached pretty high level of
AAU basketball and once the guys get to the level
(20:46):
that the game is a level of physicality that I
think female officials aren't used to, and a level of athleticism.
Especially I always I felt like they were always late,
a little bit late on some of the calls, and
you can't guess. And I will say one of the
better officials we had this year was a woman, but
(21:07):
a couple of the other ones were not nearly as good.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
We're not up to par. And I thought a lot
of it was again the.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Struggle to adjust to physicality and athleticism, which is really
what Stephanie White pointed out.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Last night after the game. I'm just wondering your assessment.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right, Well, here's a female game, female officials, and yet
they're being roundly criticized by females, not just my men.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
If we're going to be honest, which he really he
couldn't be for a long time. John Adams, who was
a long time elate John Adams, longtime director of official
A lot of people think he's the best guy ever
to monitor officials, told me very clearly is two years
ago I think he said there's nine women officials in
(21:51):
college basketball, men's college basketblay, eight of them shouldn't be
officiating junior high basketball. And you know, so WNBA has
to figure out are we a DEI program or are
we going to get the best officials. And it's clear
because Stephanie and I know people in the organization, the
(22:12):
whole league is disgusted with officiating. But well, you know,
we got to have this certain person. We gotta have
that certain person. You know, we gotta have this look,
we gotta have that look. You know. But if you're
gonna be honest and you're gonna grow a league. Yeah,
I hope everybody develops into being a great official and
you run programs at grassroots levels and things like that,
(22:33):
Doug as you know. But you know the bottom line
is you got to have it's all good until it
determines an outcome or somebody's fighting and there's a problem
like you had last night. I always admired Stephanie why
she was a great player, better person, and you know
she just took that head on. The league is getting better.
The players are getting better, and by better, she's also
(22:54):
i think including more physical, faster, and more athletic. But
the officials aren't. And you know that's on the league
if if you're going to elevate people because of something
other than being the best at your craft, and that's
what you're going to get. And again I go back
to what you know, what John Adams said, but that's
(23:15):
all across sports. He asked me one time I wasn't
even meeting with him. He asked me one time I
was going to lunch and he happened to be there.
He goes, Hey, Dan, he goes, I'm making out NCAA assignments.
You know, a good African American official on the West
Coast that I can put in the tournament. I go, John,
and I I mean, I'm I'm doing gaged. I mean,
but that's how So it's not just it's not just
(23:39):
the you know, the w NBA, it's it's all across
of fishing and personally as a coach and as a
broadcaster watching the fish, I didn't give a damn whether
the guy was black, white, green or printple. You know,
there are some guys get in there and you're like,
I don't want that guy. You know, that guy stinks
on the road. That guy stinks at home. I always
said Teddy Valentine was the best official to have when
(24:02):
you're on the road because he wasn't afraid and you know,
I mean he but he got wrongly criticized, but he
did a great job. So it's all across sports. You
just hire the best people and figure it out. At WNBA,
by their own ambition.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Doesn't do that stuck out leave show here on Fox
Sports Tradio. Let's go to the NBA Tyr's Haliburton. How
bad do you think the cav actually is.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I don't think it's bad. I don't I think it's
an easy narrative. I wanted him, you know, I watched
him move. I thought the bigger problem was lou Dort.
Lou Dort's become like my favorite all time basketball player.
Back in the day, lou Dort would have just been
a defensive guy. Lou Dort made threes. Lou Dort man,
he ain't afraid. I mean, he is a mother and Doug.
(24:48):
I went to Game three, and I didn't know lou
Dort not gonna lie. I knew the name. I know
he's a defensive guy. I knew all that. But I'm
sitting close enough in Game three here in Indy Or
I could see his face, and this was a determined
guy on every single possession, didn't take one off. Maybe
he got beat because he's Guarden, a good player. But
(25:10):
I think Halliburton's problem was it wasn't a lower leg
or whatever they hell their conic cat. I think it
was lou Dort. I think Luccort kicked his ass in
in game five. And you know, if they're going to win,
Number one, he's got to play. Number two, he's got
to play really well, and number three he can't do
that passive stuff that he does. You know, the way
(25:32):
you beat a terrific defense. You know, we learned this garden,
you know, playing against Coach Katie's teams when they were
really good with playing Robinson. You go right at him,
you drive right at him. Pacers didn't do that until
later on in the first half, and TJ McConnell made
a living doing that. You go right act them. It's
like a shot bocker, you go right active. And Halliburton
(25:53):
kept going left and right. He wasn't going forward, and
lou Dort man he got locked in. You know this,
you can get high does the defender. You can get
really hot as a defender. You know, you can know
that you've got that guy in your hip pocket. You're
making it moves on him defensively before he makes them offensively.
And that's what it seemed like Dort did did to Halliburton.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Stut Gottlieb show here on Fox Sports Radio. I love
that you love lou Dort. I mean he's no that
that whole. I mean, you have Lou Dort and Caruso
who are unbelievable versatile defenders, and you know, the guys
that score get the shine, but they're probably just as
important just as moving moving the thunder if they can
(26:40):
win a championship. What's the likelihood that Indiana forces the
game seven?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
What's it like or what's a likelihood.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
What's the likelihood?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
You know, Doug first two games, even though the Pacers
won Game one, I didn't think the Pacers were nearly
as good. I thought they got their ask kicked for
about what ninety of the ninety six minutes, and then
all of a sudden, I went to game three, I
watched game four, game five, and the Pacers did what
they normally don't do, which is give the ball up
late in games. They were nine and one and whatever
(27:13):
that whatever it means clutch games in the playoffs, and
now they're nine and three because they've you know, they
turned it over. And one thing about the Pacers, particularly Haliburton,
he don't turn it over. He's been fifteen to zip
in the playoffs. So I feel like the Pacers gonna
win game six. I don't know if they can go
in there and win game seven. You know, everybody says, well,
you take your chances on a game seven. Hell yeah,
(27:34):
But I feel like everybody told me that Okase was
so much better. And they were games one and two again,
even though the Pacers made that miraculous come back. But
I think PACER's gonna win here game six. And I'm
not being a homer. Hell you know that. I tell
you whether I thought they were gonna get blown out,
but I will say this. Haliburton doesn't play, then you
(27:57):
know that ain't happening. But I'm they fairly, fairly, fairly
certain he's gonna play.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Cooper Flag, what do you do?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I think he's great. I think he's I said this,
he I always thought in my world. Now, Magic Johnson
was the best freshman prospect that I ever saw. That
goes way back. Cooper Flags right there with him. Like
but but but you know, what's he gonna do when
he gets money? What's he gonna do when he gets fame?
(28:30):
What's he gonna do? Is he gonna you know, is
he gonna go do with Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning, Tiger Woods? Uh,
Magic Johnson? You know Lebron Is he gonna go be
fanatical about being a pro or is he gonna settle?
Because I think the dude has every every talent that
you want. I mean, what doesn't he do? And you know,
Doug I was I learned this long time ago. You
(28:53):
kind of judge guys. Okay, would they be basketball players
if they were six feet tall? Oh yeah, he'd be
a really good one. He just happens to be six
foot nine. I love him. I think he is a
great prospect in every area. But you know, what's he
gonna do? What's he gonna It's like tech Nicola said
(29:13):
the Tiger Woods. You know what, he should break my record.
He's better. He's the best golf for ever. But what's
gonna happen when he gets a wife and kids? And
what in the NBA is gonna happen when you get
all that fame? Are you're gonna be in the club
or you're gonna be working out it? You can be fanatical,
you can be insane. You know. Paton Manning used to
drive from here after workouts to Columbus, Ohio to throw
(29:35):
with Anthony Gonzalez, the first round pick, because Gonzales couldn't
be here he was in school. I mean, are you
gonna do stuff like that or are you just gonna
go along? I don't know, but I think he's a
great prospect.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Awesome stuff. Dan Dowcas the show is called Don't at
Me it's on OutKick. It's outstanding, so is Dad w D.
Thanks for joining us, man, Thanks.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Brother, anytime you know that, say buddy.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
At s Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I want
to make sure this is clear. Okay, we're playing for you,
Willy Nelson, because Willie Nelson announced he's no longer smoking weed.
And if you read it, it's not he's not giving
it up because he's like doing something altruistic, like I'm
giving it up because it's a bad like. No, No,
he's given up because he's just his lungs are fried.
(30:26):
But oftentimes when you play somebody like Willie on the radio,
people would think at ninety two years old he has passed.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
He has not.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Willie Nelson still healthy enough. Just said he stopped smoking weed.
And that's where Sam was listening and appreciate that. With
the bumper music. You listen to us now because you
know you can see us. Hey, be sure check out
the Fox Sports Trido YouTube channel. Just search Fox Sports
Trado on YouTube and you see whole bunch of video
highlights for our shows. Subscribes, you always have instant access
to our Fox Sports radio shows. With that, I get
(30:55):
you a game with Dan Byer.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
All right, Doug, the game today is for better or worse?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
All right?
Speaker 7 (31:13):
For better or worse? We're talking June's series, NBA Finals
versus Stanley Cup Final. What's been better or worse?
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Doug?
Speaker 7 (31:24):
Did you take in any of the hockey.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, they've got a lot of the hockey.
Speaker 7 (31:29):
Last night it was what do they say, fitte? Is
that a good French? I don't know, Sam, how would
you say it?
Speaker 4 (31:39):
It was?
Speaker 7 (31:39):
It was over, it was done.
Speaker 6 (31:41):
We come from France.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
It was pretty much over before it started. But what's
been a better series? We had a couple of overtime
games in the Stanley Cup Final. It's over there er
Rex three to row, yes, I believe actually with three
then three games?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Three games?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Game two for the NBA Finals was a snooze. Other
games have been very competitive. I think NBA Finals have
been better.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I do.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I think it's very close. I almost feel like Nick mackay,
push push, I'll go push.
Speaker 7 (32:28):
I actually think that this series is mirrored how the
teams have played. Maybe Florida is a little bit better
than what Oklahoma City is, but Florida was just better
than Edmonton in the final. All right, moving on for
better or worse celebration when you win a title NBA
versus NHL.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
NHL is far better, not close skating around with the
puck a day with the staying around with the cup
a day with the cup, not club.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
Yeah, I agree with that. The team picture, yeah you
have yep again. I told you about my heartbreak in
my NHL video game a decade and a half ago
when I did win a season. When I bought the game,
I think I bought NHL eighteen. It's the one with
Austin Matthews on the cover. I took a picture when
(33:22):
I won the Stanley Cup of my team winning the
cup because that was one of the graphics they put
in the game. It means a lot, really does.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And you know I was.
Speaker 9 (33:31):
I had the coverage on and they spend a solid
twenty minutes where each guy is going around the yeah,
the rink and with the cup above his head, and
like each guy gets to take a couple laps and
it's like a really drawn out, but everyone's just cheering.
I mean it is quite celebration.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
It's tradition.
Speaker 7 (33:48):
It's a good one, all right. For better or worse.
Nickname Doug Thunder versus Pacers Push Push, Jason Sam, you
want to you want to weigh in on any of this.
Speaker 9 (34:05):
I think Pacers is is cool. I mean goes back
to the obviously this the racing yes aspect, and I
just started saying PACER's gonna pace during this playoff and
it means nothing. I think they're yes sirs, Yeah, yes, sir,
cool shirts, yeahs.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
I think there's an always an issue with me with
teams that are not plural, teams that don't have an
S on the name. It just never quite sits right
with me. So I'll never except though.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Let me tell you on on Oklahoma City, right, the
tornadoes wouldn't have worked, right, but twisters underdoes twisters? I
don't know then you would have had to Is it
trademarked with the Mattel game?
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Right?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
They had a storm warning? Remember was it during game two?
There was a game game two last night. My kids
were in the cellar because there was a tornado warning
in North Oklahoma City.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
So I think they both fit.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Indies synonymous with the Indy five hundred that's the pace car,
and with Oklahoma City synonymous with a lot of things
oil and gas industry, but also Tornado Alley and the
nicest way to get Tornado Alley's the thunder kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
It works like.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I just like the fact that I don't think there's
other teams that are also the Pacers, where there's you're
not going to have a lacrosse league.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Team, or you know, is there another high school the thunder.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
I think that there's. I bet you there's way more
Thunder than there are Pacers in other team sports for sure.
Has to be such a trendy sort of thing. Into
Jason's point in the West at the end, Yeah, I
would bet. I would bet. Well, I'll do some research,
(35:56):
okay for better or worse Doug World, So you're going
into your own research, Yeah, do my own research. World
series baseball versus softball, Oklahoma City versus Omaha, not the cities,
but baseball or softball? What do you like better?
Speaker 3 (36:14):
I call me crazy. I like women's softball better.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
There's a reason why it's a question. Yeah, there's a
reason why it's a question.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
No, it's.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I do think there's something There's always been something cool
about Omaha, right, and the setup of Omaha where old
Rosenblatt Stadium and now the new stadium is located, and
it's a big event for the city. It's not as
much a big event for Oklahoma City. But the actual games,
I don't know, they're just exciting. And again you go
from I pay a little bit of attention to college
(36:45):
baseball to the College World Series. I pay no attention
to softball, then love the series, Softball stuck. Got Leab
show here on Fox Sports Radio the Midway. You're waiting
for all week.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It's next
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Doug Gottlieb
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