February 22, 2018 • 39 mins
Doug thinks Kawhi Leonard is upset with the Spurs because they're accusing him of being a faker. He discusses LeBron James not wanting the NBA to change their playoff format and why that has nothing to do with where he'll play in the future. Plus Jon Wertheim from Sports Illustrated joins the show to talk about his story regarding the Mavericks and sexual harassment allegations.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of the Doug Gottlieb Show on
Fox Sports Radio. Boom, What Up America. Doug Gottlieb Show,
Fox Sports Radio Today, coming to you from the snowy Yes,
I said, snowy city of Eugene, Oregon, Eugene, Warre Tight.
(00:25):
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it's eleven thirty us to us on the East Coast
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(00:51):
Got that new stick in Seattle. So fired up to
be uh in your living room or in your car,
at your place of work, or in your ears if
you're listening to us on any of those apps, or
if you're downloading the podcast, we got a great show
for you. Bubba Wallace, who finished second at the Daytona. Yes,
black race car driver Bubba Wallace, I think seventh black
(01:12):
race car Black NASCAR driver of all time, will join us.
We'll ask him about his journey and about about how
he takes that next step into victory Lane. Came up
oh so close uh to winning it at Daytona. Dwayne
Casey will join us in the third hour of the show.
He's the Raptors head coach, freshof coach in the All
Star Game, and Chris mackwill join us as well. He's
(01:33):
head coach of Xavier. John Worth time joins us next hour.
John worthime co authored that piece UM exposing the Dallas
Mavericks front office being more of a um, being more
of a cliche locker room atmosphere than the actual locker
room of the Mavericks. So we'll dig into what Cuban
(01:55):
knew when he knew it, what he did about it
at the actual time, not what he's been doing about
it recently. All that upcoming, Let's start with the story
of the day, which is Kawhi Leonard may not play
the rest of the season. Here was Greg Pops is
shortly after our show like this, Actually, I turned off
our I pressed off on the button. My show ends
at two fifty four local time, that's five fifty four
(02:20):
East Coast time. Turn it off, talked to the guys,
caught my breath, took a pe um when got a
sip of water because I felt a little dehydrated yesterday.
Maybe that's too much information. And I went on to
Twitter to see, all right, what's coming up tonight? Who's
playing tonight. There's a couple of big college basketball games.
There's a couple of injured players. There was a weird
thing that happened eventually with the Providence in Seton Hall
(02:43):
where the court was unplayable. So they end up playing
today anyway. And I saw that Greg Popovich said this,
we don't have text number of games weft this season,
and uh, he still not ready to go, and um,
by some chance he is. It's gonna be pretty late
(03:05):
in the season, and it's gonna be a through decision.
Uh you know how wait to bring somebody back. So
that's why I'm just trying to be honest and logical.
I'll be surprised if he gets back this year. I'll
be surprised if he gets back this year. Now, I've
I've heard people say like, look, that was to an
audience of one, that was to Kauaid Leonard, that was
(03:27):
motivating him to play. Kauai came back and played seven games.
Then during the All Star break, he went to New
York to get special treatment. He still doesn't feel right.
He's still not ready to go. One of the things
you never want to be called. No one wants to
be called lazy. No one wants to be called a flopper.
(03:49):
No one wants to be called a cheat, right and
no one wants to be called a liar. And in sports,
you don't want to be called a faker. Who wants
to be called a faker? Because that's essentially how Kauai
Leonard believes he's being labeled, Like, look, dude, I'm hurt.
(04:10):
I don't feel right, and if I'm not right, then
I run the risk of greater injury. And the Spurs
are saying, hey, you're clear to play. Our doctors are
saying you're good. There's a lot of different things we
can get into. Remember the Boston Celtics doctors stuck Isaiah
Thomas back out there. He played with a debilitating hip injury,
(04:33):
which ended up being so painful he couldn't play in
the Eastern Conference finals. And that move has cost him
a hundred million dollars, not just sitting, but the hip
injury and how his body has responded since. A hundred
million dollars spread between what he may have signed for
had he been a free agent last year and he
wasn't gonna be a free agent last year, but and
(04:56):
what he'll sign for this upcoming off season. Some of
that is timing, Some of that is the teams he's
playing on, the reality and how he handled the whole
situation in Cleveland. I'm not saying that the Celtics doctors
are solely responsible, but there is at least a portion
of responsibility which falls at the feet of the Boston
(05:17):
Celtics doctors, two of whom I believe were relieved to
their duties no longer tied to the team. So there
is precedents for doctors saying you're good, God damn play
you're fine, it's all in your head, and the players
saying like, I don't think it's okay good, I don't
(05:40):
think i'm fine. I don't think I'm ready to go.
Some of this feels like huff and bluster from Greg Popovitch.
Some of it may actually be Papovitch trying to take
the pressure off and just go like, look, if he's
back in time for the playoffs, that's great, but we
can't go. It's like the Derrick Rose thing. Remember Derrick
Rose with the Bulls one year. We can't go from
(06:00):
not playing in the regular season all of sudden playing
you in the playoffs. Forget about whether that screws us up.
That's zero to a hundred. That's really really hard. We
are in February, we still have March, we still have
half of April. My guess is that Kauai ends up
returning and playing and we'll see what he's got. But
(06:25):
while while there are other parts to it which are interesting,
Kauai fairly nonverbal guy with a coach who uh though
he controls the media, though he can be tersed with
the media, he will be at least what we think
is up front with the media. It's not like san
Antonio has hasn't dealt with a non verbal guy before
(06:47):
they had Tim Duncan. He did switch from a regular
legitimate agent to doing his own thing, having his uncle
run all of his affairs. That feels like a weird deal.
A southern California kid and the Lakers. Maybe he didn't
openly opine, but have thought about how can we get
(07:07):
Kawhi Leonard here? As he's a burgeoning superstar A to
way player, a versatil player at that and a guy
who could be a free agent at the end of
next season. So there are reasons to scratch your head
and go like, hey, maybe Kauai wants out, maybe he's
he doesn't, maybe he doesn't think ultimately he wants to
finish his career in San Antonio. And this next contract,
(07:30):
the two plus million dollar extension which is going to
be offered to him this offseason, that might he might
want it. He just might not want it in Santonio, Texas.
But what happens when you call somebody a liar, What
happens when you call somebody a cheater, What happens when
you call somebody a phony, What happens when you call somebody,
(07:51):
in this case, a faker. All the reactions the same.
They get really mad, they get really defensive, and they
try to prove you wrong. My guess is that in
addition to not cajoling him, not comforting him, not empowering
(08:12):
him in the rehab process by leaking it to the media,
or just saying to the media a straight up we
don't think he's hurt, You've called him a liar, a cheater.
Worse than that, a Faker and Kawhi Leonards reaction is,
I'll show you. I want to spend extra time, be
(08:34):
extra careful, take care of me, because no one who
cares about me would ever talk to me or treat
me that way. All Right, I mean, look, some of
this is it says a lot about modern science. We
just think that, you know, you just patch guys up.
It's the it's the Remember when Adrian Peterson tore his
(08:54):
a c L and he was back, and now he's
back the next year and he's m v P and
and comeback player. Do you remember that? And we expected
that to be every single player. Heck, even on his
own team. Tony Parker had a similar, if not the
same injury, and Tony Parker's back. Granted, Tony Parker is
now a bench player, no longer a starter. But some
of that's more more age than anything else. But but
(09:20):
the simple and interesting side note to this is we
all just think that modern science is guy gets hurt,
he's out, he comes back, he's healthy's better than ever
and still a hum body. Everyone's built differently. Every injury
is in fact different. I don't I don't like there's
guys on Twitter who are doctors who watched inju're like, oh,
(09:41):
here's what it was. Sometimes they can, but sometimes they
can miss. I'm not excusing Kawai Leonard from participation, not
writing him a doctor's note, but if you don't feel right,
you're not gonna be you. And if you're not you,
we can't have you out it there. And that's all
(10:02):
the Spurs should have said from day one. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays
at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app Something historic happening in
the Daytona five was wasn't as historic as I think
he wanted it to be. But look, his first African
American driver to finished second. Still you want to win?
(10:23):
Bubba Wallace joins us on the Doug gottlip Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. First African American driver to finish
second at the Daytona five hundred, Bubba, how are you?
I'm good? How are you, sir? Good man? Um? If
you could go back and change one thing about the race,
and like, look, I know it's a long afternoon. Those
of us who watched on Fox, like we're said, we
(10:45):
get tired watching at home. I can't imagine racing the
entire time at home. You could do one thing differently,
what would you think? I think you know the answer
to that when the race, Yeah, but but what what
was there one thing you could have done earlier in
the race? Late in the race? Obviously it said goes
over time. What what there's one thing you could do differently?
(11:05):
What would it be? Um, you know, we all got
kind of spread out there at the end, so it's
kind of hard to do. But uh, there was a
lot of moves and I think I missed out on
but then they would have a wreck would happen a
half lap later, so it was like, Okay, I missed
out on that move for a good reason. So I
don't know, I wouldn't change anything. Maybe if we just
got formed up a little bit better at the end,
we would have had a shot at winning. But all
(11:25):
in all, a second is a great day. Are you
a are you a mental note guy? Are you a
journal guy? I know obviously anybody who's watched the Facebook
Facebook a docuseries Behind the Wall, Behind the Wall of
Bubba Wallace, which chronicles your road to the Dayton of
five hundred Um. But but when you get done with
the race, and like everybody learns things from experiences, do
(11:46):
those experiences go upstairs? And do you actually write them down? Oh?
They go upstairs for sure, and and uh, actually I
do have their journal. I'm a little bit of both. Well,
don't get me wrong, I'll jot everything down as well.
But the mental notes you gotta remember for for when
you go back there, Um, of what to expect and
how we tackled that weekend. Bubba Wallas joining us. For
(12:07):
people who who don't know the story, you became the
first graduate of the NASCAR Drive for Diversity Development Program
to compete in a NASCAR Nationwide Series race. And since then,
of course, you won what six times the Camping World
Truck Series. Um to go from that to nearly winning
at Daytona and I obviously you want to win the race.
(12:27):
But this entire experience, how how would you how would
you relate it to any average fan who's driving around?
Listen to you right now, what's it been like? It's
been Uh, it's been exciting. It's been a little bit exhausting. Um,
it's uh, it's been just a lot of fun. Just
to be able to document what's all been going on
for the last you know, a month and a half.
(12:48):
We not three months ago and when we started the
Facebook watch show, Uh, looking back, where I was at
last year was without a ride and now we're we're
driving that kind of number forty three. So pretty special
moment for sure. We've we've seen you with number fourty three.
Of course Richard Petty's car. He came embraced you before
the race. There's been some great press conferences between the
two of you. What are the private moments, like, what's
(13:09):
he really like to you? Oh, he's he's a he's
a great mentor, a great leader and just an all
around awesome guy. For for as old as he is, Uh,
you wouldn't think he's that old. I mean eighty two
years old and still is witty, still has that that's
fun natured bone in his body. Um, just always cracking jokes,
(13:30):
making sure everyone is doing their job, and just an
awesome guy to be around. Is he gonna give you
one of his hats? I got one, actually I got
one last year. He gave it to me as a
token for uh, for driving their car, and that was
pretty special. But is it your hat size or his?
Hat size. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So you've
(13:51):
never actually worn the hat you just got that. You're like, oh,
I got the King's hat, but oh yeah, we we
He gave me a glass display as well, so it's
it's it's put up nice at the house. Now do
you call him King? Do you call him Richard? You
call Mr? Petty? What do you call him? I call
him all the above? It's never consistent. Bubba Wallace, Mr King,
Richard Petty, sir uh guy who also obviously was in
(14:14):
cars as well. Okay, so help me out with this.
You you haven't run from You have embraced the idea
of being African American driver, black driver, and you said
you're gonna hear more. You're gonna hear more about it.
How do you how do you handle it? How do
you when when when people introduce you and they always
want to put the African American driver. Now you're the you.
(14:35):
You finished, You had the best finished in the history
of the raised for an African American driver at Daytona
five D. Like, is there a point to which you
just want to be known as Bubba Wallace or do
you want to continue carrying this badge of honor along
with you. Yeah, I mean there's some point, well, at
some point it's gonna change, um, but right now there's
there's just me. I'm the only one at the top levels.
So I'm trying to represent that that uh that you
(14:57):
vanished point the best way I can and and uh
and doing the best I can on and off the
race track is only gonna help that number grow. So
as long as I do that, then we'll see how
long it takes for for that that conversation uh to
change to being the race car driver now instead of
the black racecar driver. All right, So here's what I
really want to know. I took my son to K
one Speed, which is like a go kart place. The Yeah,
(15:21):
those things are dope, and I want to like the
adult ones are awesome, but I I took him in
a couple of buddies. We go all the time. He
loves the place. So when did you first start drive?
When did you first start driving anything fast? When I
was nine years old driving go karts? Uh, asphalt go carts.
So the ones you are that are different from from
K one Speed but still gave you a little bit
(15:41):
of feeling for And then when did you like I
want to do Because every kid says I want to
do that, but they also say I want to be
a fireman, I want to be a policeman. I want
to be this, I want to be that. My son
wants to be a professional baseball player, then he wants
to be a driver. When when were you I really
want to do this. I don't know if I ever
really was, to be honest with UM, I just kept
(16:01):
doing it, and kept doing it, and then moving up
throughout the ranks, winning those races, moving up to the
next one, winning those races as well, and and it
just seemed like the right thing to do. I never
I don't think I once said that this is what
I want to do for sure. I mean, obviously that's
what I want to do now. Um that's all I
know how to do. I mean, fifteen years in this
in the racing one of the motor sports world, I
can't only turn back now. And I think it was
(16:23):
two thousand ten where I act said those exact words myself.
So there's way too many tears and blood, sweat, and
and and effort thrown into my program. There's no no
way I can turn back now and throw it all away,
So let's just keep digging. How do you process the fear? Right?
That's the This was the the anniversary obviously of uh
(16:44):
twenty anniversary of Dale and Hard Junior winning seventeenth anniversary
of his death. Um, you guys read dangerous speeds. We've
seen so many uh so many of the veterans retired
and I know they were retiring because they can make
money owning teams. They can make money as commentators. But
one reason they retire now they have kids and they're like, look,
it's a lot safer to watch and to be an
owner than is to to race. How do you how
(17:06):
do you make that fear of what could possibly happen
go away while you're behind the wheel. Yeah, I mean
you got you have no fear. That's that's how you
manage it. Just have no fear at all. You just
go out and do do what you do. Um. You know,
if we had fear, you would see uh, you wouldn't
see me. I was out there driving today, especially with
the speeds that we're at right now. We go out
(17:26):
and do it because we love it and we we
know the factor and the risk that are that are
with that there's a lot of a lot of risks
that come with driving. But we we love the thrill
of winning. We love the thrill of driving and going
through in a mile an hour, and and and being
competitive and and and beating our other competitors by thousands
of an inch. We we thrive off that and fear.
(17:47):
Fear does not settle in anywhere with us. All right,
So now that you have a ride, you've you've done that,
you've done the Daytona nearly wanted. What's the track you're
most looking forward to? Um, Martin's Villa and Dover. Those
two places really stand out to me just because we've
had so much, so much success there in the truck days. Um,
you know, Martin Zille went in two clocks Dover. We've
(18:10):
had too much success in every car off climbed in there.
So I'm excited about that. Um. So it's coming up
on the schedule soon. How different is that are the
trucks from the NASCAR series, like in in terms of
like the actual driving of it. What's the biggest difference?
The speed for sure, and speeding the way these things handle. Um,
you know, trucks will get up to one eight and
(18:31):
then cup cars will get up to uh to to
ten to twenty, and so you feel that, you feel
the difference in those speeds, um, and when you're going
that fast, it's a lot harder to hang onto. You
got beef, don't you. I mean, like I'm I'm reading,
we're drivers, you have you have beef with dudes already? No, no, no,
they got beef with with me totally different. Why what
(18:53):
did you do? What, Bubble? What could you have possibly
done this early in the season where guys already have
beef with you? Man? You know, I just show up
and I'm changing up the game. I'm I'm beating him.
That's what it is. Do you think it's jealousy. No,
I don't think it's jealousy at all. It's just we're
competitive and we want to beat each other fair enough,
fair enough. I mean Austin Dillon, he runs a dude
(19:14):
straight off the track and they're like hugging afterwards. Yeah,
well you just you just you just ruined somebody's chance
and win the day total five hundred. They hug afterwards.
All you've done is, you know, finished second and guys
that beef with you, Bubba, How is that possible? That's
uh That's what NASCAR is all about. That's what racing
and motorsports is all about, my friend. It's it's that
(19:34):
competitive edge that gets the best of us. You're also
a gamer. Favorite go to video game is what pub
What's ub G? I don't honestly don't want to tell
this pub G is. It's short for a Player unknown
Battlegrounds right now, So the computer game that's out that
I've been playing for the last three months every day awesome.
(19:55):
You get no sleep because this is what you do
at night with the headset on, don't you. Basically yes, sir?
All right, um, give me the show that give me
the show that you most recently binged. Um. I wouldn't
say bands, but we we keep up with This is Us?
So I love that show. How did This Is Us?
Is like a sensitive show that's like a married I
(20:16):
have three kids, that's like that's me and my wife's show.
How is that your show? Did you see the post
race interview of mine after day? How emotional I was?
It looked like I just got done watching an episode
of This Is Us? Fair enough, Bubba, great to catch up.
We'll talk to you next time, because next time you're
gonna be in Checkers obviously we know either Martinsville or Dover,
but hopefully sometime in between as well. Thanks so much
(20:36):
for joining us. All right, thank you man. I appreciate that. Enjoyed.
All right, that's Bubba Wallis joining us on the Doug
Gottlip Show. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox sports radio dot com and within the I Heart
Radio app. Because the West is seen to be so
much better now and has been so much better for
a good number of years, there's a conversation about the
(20:59):
East West co mingo in the playoffs and getting ready
for the NBA Finals. Do that? I don't know. Um
and Lebron James had this to say about the possibility
of changing the NBA's playoff format the school to mess
around with All Star game. You know we can do that,
(21:19):
but let's let's not let's not get so crazy about
the about the playoffs. You know, we have Eastern Conference,
you have Western Conference, and you know you have the
certain conference champions. You have guys that win the championship
from Eastern Conference who was the big dance and then
sometimes you have it from the Western from No. I
tend to agree with him. He also is a Lebron
(21:41):
is also a student of the game. He knows the
history of the game, and he understands that one of
the unique things about the history of the NBA is
you have had these East West rivalries. Warriors calves four
is good for basketball. The ratings would tell you as such,
the Lakers versus the Celtics. If you went to the Lakers,
the Celtics will be around. That would be incredible to
do an incredible number. Plus, you want to keep East
(22:07):
Coast fans engaged. You don't want to be One of
the reasons college football's ratings are down is because it's
seen as a southeastern sport. If I'm on the West coast,
I'm not really in on the Clemson in the Alabama thing. Sorry.
If you're in the Midwest, the Ohio states eliminated, I'm
I'm not really in on it. East Coast Northeast has
always struggled to get in on college football. You don't
(22:27):
want to be seen as a regional sport. Think about
when baseball had the Mets versus the Yankees. New York
went crazy for it. The rest of us didn't care
ratings plummeted. But I think that some people believe this
is a legacy protector for Lebron. The Lebron's protecting his
(22:50):
legacy that if he stays in the East, he can
keep getting to the finals he's gotten the last seven years.
And maybe this is Lebron telling us he's now going
to l A because he wants to keep that that
legacy alive of going to the finals and playing in
the Weast with the weaker Eastern Conference where they can
beat up on the Raptors, and and he can still
(23:11):
own the Celtics, and the Nicks offer no sort of resistance,
and the Wizards, who they play tonight, they're they're not
really ready for prime time. Right, this is what that's
what This is what Lebron is doing. I think we're
looking at Lebron all wrong. Lebron James does not think
like a normal human being. Normal human beings think, well,
(23:35):
if I stay in the East, I want an easier
road to the finals, because I've been the seventh straight
NBA finals. I get to eighth straight this year, I
get to nine, I can get to ten, I can
put up records just then get in the finals. That
no one has ever, no one will ever will ever
be able to surpass. That's how normal human beings think.
Lebron doesn't think that way. Lebron James thinks he's going
(23:57):
to win everywhere anywhere he goes, or even if he stays.
Do you know why Lebron thinks that way, Because Lebron
James has one everywhere he's gone, no matter where he's been,
seven consecutive times. So so saying that Lebron only wants
(24:17):
East West because he's in the East to make a consect,
Lebron didn't care. Do you think Lebron doesn't think. Wait
if I go to the Lakers and I got Paul George,
who's a better player than anybody has with him right
now at the Calves, and I got all those young
guys who will be two, three, four years in the NBA,
I can't imagine immediately turn that around, Like no way
(24:39):
he turned Miami around. Look at the record here before
he got there. Look what he did with the UH
with the Cleveland Cavaliers. But the first and the second time,
you can tell me that Lebron's thoughts that he can
win anywhere he goes aren't reasonable. But He's exceeded anybody's
reasonable expectation period. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
(25:03):
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I
Heart Radio app. Sports Illustrated John Warthime, co author to
piece which depicted the Mavericks, says, I guess what the
cliche of what locker room behavior would be like. The
crazy part was the locker room did not have locker
room behavior. John Worthime from Sports Illustrator joins us on
(25:25):
Fox Sports Trader, John, how are you good? Thanks to
Duck good Man. Um. Okay, So I look when when
I read it, I tried to read it in detail.
There were obviously some alarming stuff in there, but it
did focus on three major really three pieces, right. It
was the former CEO, the HR director, and a guy
(25:46):
who wrote for we call him a beat writer. But
when you write for the team's website and collect um
and collect checks from the team, you're not really a
beat writer. You're you know, right, you're a You're a
mouthpiece or a propaganda specialist. If you know, those are
the three names mentioned in the piece. I mean, correct,
those the central figures. Yeah, I mean I just it
(26:08):
was a cultural piece that they went beyond. I mean, yeah,
I think those were the three sort of central figures
all by that. Okay, So the question becomes, how much
like the Mark Cuban thing. First there was I didn't
know some of this stuff, Then I didn't know enough
about it, and then these these were these were f ups.
What's your thought? What have you been able to discover
(26:30):
in terms of what and when Mark knew something was
up in the business side of his organization. That's a
great question. And I suspect when this, you know, independent
investigation just going, we'll learn more. Um. No, as you say,
I talked to Mark Monday and he said he's embarrassed,
he's ashamed, it sickens him. But he knew nothing. Um.
(26:54):
That seemed to to move a little bit and and
change a bit within twenty four hours. And now you
know certain employees are making certain charges of I think
you're right the three main figures. Mark wasn't one of them,
but just didn't quickly become a story about this owner
famous for his passion and his hands on approach. How
(27:16):
is it that Mark Cuban knew nothing? Mark? Mark does listen,
I'm a basketball guy, I know everything about basketball, I
know who makes one in the analytics, I didn't know
the business side. And yet a lot of the sources
we spoke to said, you know, come on, this stuff
was an open secret. You're trying to tell me. Mark Cuban,
the most hands on owner in the NBA, didn't have
any width of this. So we'll we'll see where this goes.
(27:39):
What I don't know, I mean, like they look, there's
a lot of uncomfortable stuff there, and a lot of
behavior which, though in the past, needs to be eradicated
from any any business. You know, the one where you
have a writer who who abuses a woman who he
works with even though living relationship, and and and gets
arrested and is allowed to come back to work. I
(28:01):
forget the second offense. How does that happen? It's a
great question. I mean, clearly there there was a breakdown,
but I would mean, I would pause. They think that
one of the culprits was the CEO. Well what does
that mean? Well, first, it means that this culture is
starting at the top. If it's a guy who's basically
running the company is what we were told was a
(28:21):
serial harasser. We had multiple sources detail account after account
of harassment with him. It's the CEO is doing this.
Not only is he the guy in charge, so what
kind of a culture does that set? But also he's
the one hiring the HR head who people sensibly are
supposed to go to when they have complaints. He's the
one who's in charge of sort of the office dynamic.
(28:43):
This case, the HR officer aid didn't have an office.
He had a cubicle, and b was right near the
ceo S office, So you know, you can understand why
women were reluctant to file formal complaints. And then as
you say that the we'll call him a beat writer,
I understand your hesitation, but yeah, when you have a
beat writer who had a domestic violence charge that he
(29:05):
went guilty too, and it prevented him from going into Canada,
which meant that, you know, when the Mavericks played the Raptors,
he couldn't go, So that would tell me that the
team knew about this. And then he had a subsequent
domestic violence incident against a co worker Mavericks employee, and
as of two days ago he was still on the job.
(29:26):
That was really troubling. Yeah, yeah, and and they allowed
him to come back to work as long as he
wasn't alone in the presence of a woman like what
like this, this is real? This that that really happened.
Um yeah, Mark told me his his word to me
was that he needed an escort. Um again, you've got
(29:47):
an employee on the payroll who needs an escort to
do his job. Yeah, I mean I again, I was
a reporter here, I wasn't a columnist. I don't want
to go too far down the road of casting judgment.
I'll leave that to others. But yeah, that, um that
that was. That was troubling all right. So here here's
the part that I'm I'm stuck on. A CEO is
(30:10):
can be hard to get rid of, right because they
can they can know trade secrets. Maybe maybe you're super
close friends. I don't know of CEO and I CEO
of an NBA team. Sounds a little bit more powerful
than it actually is. But okay, see, but like Earl
Sneed was a nobody right, imminently replaceable, and they had
opportunities to get rid of him, and they didn't. And
(30:33):
if he and if he twice abuses women that worked
for the Mavericks, one shows up to work like why
not just get rid of him. I don't understand. Uh,
that's that's that's a question for the Mavericks. I mean,
Mark talked about the song. If you saw his interview
with ESPN, he didn't say this to me, but each
said the ESPN. Part of his thinking was, then again,
I'm just taking this from an ESPN interview he did.
(30:54):
Part of his thinking was that better we try to
correct this situation and get this guy counseling, then have
him leave the organization and take his antisocial behavior elsewhere.
But again, I mean, you think about the female employees
at the Mavericks and what it did to imperil them
that a guy with multiple domestic violence incidents, Um, it's
(31:16):
it's still going to work. And you know the other
thing that struck me doing the story. I talked, you
talked to a woman after woman, and they're upset, they
feel disrespected, they feel wounded. But so many of them
just said, you know what the heck was sports and
they didn't just leave the Mavericks, they left the entire industry.
And I don't lead have the sin sports illustrated. I
suspect you do as well. There's that there's discussion about
(31:37):
how do we get rid of this, this male female,
this disproportionate relationship. And here you have woman after woman
leaves the sports industry because they didn't feel the workplace
was safe. Um, that was something that really stuck with
me and struck me. And again, I mean the fact
that the CEO who's setting policy and setting culture has
(31:59):
this track record. He was first investigated, you would think
that subsequent to that complains that. You know, you think
that would be zero tolerance. And after that, you know
he wouldn't last for seventeen more years. And yeah, I mean,
like like you, you wonder how a guy with multiple
domestic violence incidents, one of them against a co worker
(32:21):
would keep his job while the coworker left. And she
she told us she had to apply for over two
fifty jobs before she got new employment. John Worth time
from Sports Hill Shape, joining us in the Doug Gottlib
show here on Fox Sports Trader, all right, did the
how many people work for the Mavericks in the business side? Uh?
That that I couldn't tell. I mean, I can countered
(32:44):
in the media guy, but that's that I don't have
the precise numbers. I guess, I guess one of the things.
You guys did an excellent job of showing. Was there's
the one line where said, you know that the place
of refuge was actually the locker room from this court
of locker room behavior. But there were no coaches, there
were no scouts at least accused in the piece, and
there were no players accused in the piece. And so
(33:05):
if I were to take issue with the idea of
a culture, is if there was a cultural sexual harassment,
how come it didn't leak into the basketball side of it. Yeah,
it's it's a great question. And we also we we
talked about sort of locker room atmosphere colloquially. Well, here,
in this case, the locker room atmosphere was completely respectful
(33:26):
to women. And they said again again and again, they said, listen, dork,
no whiskey. Great, you know they take off the name
Vince Carter, Great Shawn Mary and great Rick Carlisle. Nothing
but professional. These women would say, we talk about the
locker room, you go in the actual locker room and
we were treated like human beings. We get to our
desk and that's where guys were watching porn. That's where
(33:46):
you know, we were hearing things that we never should
have heard and CEOs harassing us. So yeah, I mean
I think there's a certain I mean again, I think
it sounds like such a business book cliche. But the
leader sets the culture, and I don't if you saw
Rick Carlisle's remarks yesterday, I mean, clearly, this is not
a guy who would tolerate anything like that. I mean
he was, he was very outspoken. Um. Clearly the CEO,
(34:08):
the Rick Carlisle equivalent on the business side, uh, looked
at things much differently. Yeah, now that that but that
But there's where I think, and I understand that it
is under the Mavericks banner, but it unfortunately cast a
shadow over the Mavericks team when this has nothing to
do with the Mavericks team per se. It's more the
it's the it's the business side. And I don't know
(34:28):
if the mainstream sports fan spends enough time and really
reads your reads the piece and sports sociation understands there's
a differentiation with the two. Is that fair? Yeah? I mean,
we we put that one line about how the locker
room not only did this not involve players, the players
here were sort of the virtuous part who were trying
to put that line high in the story and make
(34:48):
clear this is not a story about athletes, And yeah,
I mean it's interesting to me just covering sports. Mean,
when was the last time you had a sports scandal
like this where it didn't involve athletes at all? All?
I mean, this this was as you say this, this
was you know, Earl's need the website writer. But the
actual athletes who are associated with Mavericks, we're the gentleman.
(35:10):
And the other thing too, that's interesting about that to
your point is people have talked about punishment and what
should the NBA do? And your Cuban gets fine six
and our grand for tanking? What's the fine when there's
an atmosphere like this? But you know, just judging reporting
the story, it seems to be unfair. You're gonna take
away draft picks, You're gonna sort of newter the team,
(35:30):
when again, as you say that, that the team itself
is really very separate from the culture we were describing.
So how do you how do you punish the Mavericks
without exacting a price on the basketball, especially when the
basketball side had nothing to do with this. Um Again,
I think I'm given Mark Cuban's outspoken is so far,
(35:52):
and I think he deserves some credit for that. I
think this independent investigation we'll have some teeth and I
think when we get a results of that, um, we'll
have a lot to your first question, will have a
lot more sense of of who knew what and when
did they know it? And that will probably help fashion
punishment if appropriate. Yeah, it's it's interesting. You know, we
(36:12):
we taught Chris Mannox was on yesterday, um, and and
he said like, look, here's the NBA and NBA TV
still employees Isaiah Thomas and he was running the Knicks,
you know during their embarrassing sexual harrassment sexual hairessment UH
lawsuit which over eleven million dollars with the nucle browns
uh Nukele brown Smith think was was the lady's name
(36:34):
who was one of the topics, right, Um, So I
think it's it is fascinating that that, Look, the culture
is unacceptable. It has been there and even in the league,
which is as forward thinking as the NBA, uh, they
have you know, they have just as much guilt as
any of these other professions. Right, Like you're uncovering something
that I hope doesn't exist elsewhere, but might well have
(36:56):
existed elsewhere. Yeah, I don't know if I'd go that,
I mean, I don't, I mean I would, I wouldn't
necessarily think they have as much guilt as these other professions.
But yeah, I mean it's it's really problematic. Tour deema
Ussery was it David Stern protegee. David Stern essentially installed
him as CBA commissioner. He was on the NBA Board
of Governors. Um, you know that the NBA had very
close ties with this individual. Like you say this, I mean,
(37:19):
if I if Isaiah Thomas, if that lawsuit happens post
me too, if that happened in the last six months
and didn't happen more than ten years ago, there's no
way Isaiah Thomas is working for the for the league's network.
Having said that, you know, as these as these things go,
I think at the slippery slopes to starret comparing industries.
And again, I mean, the way the story came about
(37:40):
was I did a story on Jerry Richardson about two
months ago, and after that came out, we had some
tips about the Mavericks. Jerry Richardson never returned a phone call.
I don't think he's spoken on record to anyone. He's
certainly not apologized to some of the women who feel
very hurt by his conduct. I mean, I do feel
like I need to stress that I probably spoken to
Mark Cuban, you know, half a dozen times in the
(38:02):
last seventy two hours. Um, you know, he has not
hidden and I think you know he's he's owed some
credit there. Yeah, two different types of pr One is
shut it down, don't start talking, because you know, like, look,
Mark Cuban obviously goes the other way, and Cuban has
the equity from Shark Tank, the equity from winning a championship,
and the equity to say, look, I'm I'm actually talking
about this thing. On the other hand, he did you know,
(38:24):
he contradicted himself between his first discussion with you and
subsequent interviews. Correct. Yeah, and uh, I mean he he
called me and said, listen, I just don't I don't
want to mislead you. I went back and looked at
some emails. I mean, I think, you know, it's it's
a fluid situation. As we say, I mean employees that
we're working for the Mavericks forty eight hours or not
working there now. But you know, again, I compare this
(38:47):
and in Jerry Richardson's case, he was the accused figure.
Mark Cuban is not the accused party. But but I
am struck by how these two different franchises have responded
in two very different ways. Fascinating and of course the
Panthers are Jerry Richarsons selling the team, which happened almost
immediately after your last piece came out, John, Uh. Look
forward to talking with you under under better circumstances, maybe
(39:11):
some maybe some tennis upcoming. I love your stuff there.
In the meantime, thanks so much for joining us. You
got next time. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three pm Eastern
noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart
Radio app.
This is the best of the Doug Gottlieb Show on
Fox Sports Radio. Boom, What Up America. Doug Gottlieb Show,
Fox Sports Radio Today, coming to you from the snowy Yes,
I said, snowy city of Eugene, Oregon, Eugene, Warre Tight.
(00:25):
I'll be on the call of Oregon Arizona State on
Fox Sports front at eight thirty Pacific Coast time. Yeah,
it's eleven thirty us to us on the East Coast
on our serious XM Channel eighty three affiliate on the
I Heart Radio app, or on our hundreds and growing
number of affiliates on Fox Sports family of radio stations Phoenix, Waco, Seattle.
(00:51):
Got that new stick in Seattle. So fired up to
be uh in your living room or in your car,
at your place of work, or in your ears if
you're listening to us on any of those apps, or
if you're downloading the podcast, we got a great show
for you. Bubba Wallace, who finished second at the Daytona. Yes,
black race car driver Bubba Wallace, I think seventh black
(01:12):
race car Black NASCAR driver of all time, will join us.
We'll ask him about his journey and about about how
he takes that next step into victory Lane. Came up
oh so close uh to winning it at Daytona. Dwayne
Casey will join us in the third hour of the show.
He's the Raptors head coach, freshof coach in the All
Star Game, and Chris mackwill join us as well. He's
(01:33):
head coach of Xavier. John Worth time joins us next hour.
John worthime co authored that piece UM exposing the Dallas
Mavericks front office being more of a um, being more
of a cliche locker room atmosphere than the actual locker
room of the Mavericks. So we'll dig into what Cuban
(01:55):
knew when he knew it, what he did about it
at the actual time, not what he's been doing about
it recently. All that upcoming, Let's start with the story
of the day, which is Kawhi Leonard may not play
the rest of the season. Here was Greg Pops is
shortly after our show like this, Actually, I turned off
our I pressed off on the button. My show ends
at two fifty four local time, that's five fifty four
(02:20):
East Coast time. Turn it off, talked to the guys,
caught my breath, took a pe um when got a
sip of water because I felt a little dehydrated yesterday.
Maybe that's too much information. And I went on to
Twitter to see, all right, what's coming up tonight? Who's
playing tonight. There's a couple of big college basketball games.
There's a couple of injured players. There was a weird
thing that happened eventually with the Providence in Seton Hall
(02:43):
where the court was unplayable. So they end up playing
today anyway. And I saw that Greg Popovich said this,
we don't have text number of games weft this season,
and uh, he still not ready to go, and um,
by some chance he is. It's gonna be pretty late
(03:05):
in the season, and it's gonna be a through decision.
Uh you know how wait to bring somebody back. So
that's why I'm just trying to be honest and logical.
I'll be surprised if he gets back this year. I'll
be surprised if he gets back this year. Now, I've
I've heard people say like, look, that was to an
audience of one, that was to Kauaid Leonard, that was
(03:27):
motivating him to play. Kauai came back and played seven games.
Then during the All Star break, he went to New
York to get special treatment. He still doesn't feel right.
He's still not ready to go. One of the things
you never want to be called. No one wants to
be called lazy. No one wants to be called a flopper.
(03:49):
No one wants to be called a cheat, right and
no one wants to be called a liar. And in sports,
you don't want to be called a faker. Who wants
to be called a faker? Because that's essentially how Kauai
Leonard believes he's being labeled, Like, look, dude, I'm hurt.
(04:10):
I don't feel right, and if I'm not right, then
I run the risk of greater injury. And the Spurs
are saying, hey, you're clear to play. Our doctors are
saying you're good. There's a lot of different things we
can get into. Remember the Boston Celtics doctors stuck Isaiah
Thomas back out there. He played with a debilitating hip injury,
(04:33):
which ended up being so painful he couldn't play in
the Eastern Conference finals. And that move has cost him
a hundred million dollars, not just sitting, but the hip
injury and how his body has responded since. A hundred
million dollars spread between what he may have signed for
had he been a free agent last year and he
wasn't gonna be a free agent last year, but and
(04:56):
what he'll sign for this upcoming off season. Some of
that is timing, Some of that is the teams he's
playing on, the reality and how he handled the whole
situation in Cleveland. I'm not saying that the Celtics doctors
are solely responsible, but there is at least a portion
of responsibility which falls at the feet of the Boston
(05:17):
Celtics doctors, two of whom I believe were relieved to
their duties no longer tied to the team. So there
is precedents for doctors saying you're good, God damn play
you're fine, it's all in your head, and the players
saying like, I don't think it's okay good, I don't
(05:40):
think i'm fine. I don't think I'm ready to go.
Some of this feels like huff and bluster from Greg Popovitch.
Some of it may actually be Papovitch trying to take
the pressure off and just go like, look, if he's
back in time for the playoffs, that's great, but we
can't go. It's like the Derrick Rose thing. Remember Derrick
Rose with the Bulls one year. We can't go from
(06:00):
not playing in the regular season all of sudden playing
you in the playoffs. Forget about whether that screws us up.
That's zero to a hundred. That's really really hard. We
are in February, we still have March, we still have
half of April. My guess is that Kauai ends up
returning and playing and we'll see what he's got. But
(06:25):
while while there are other parts to it which are interesting,
Kauai fairly nonverbal guy with a coach who uh though
he controls the media, though he can be tersed with
the media, he will be at least what we think
is up front with the media. It's not like san
Antonio has hasn't dealt with a non verbal guy before
(06:47):
they had Tim Duncan. He did switch from a regular
legitimate agent to doing his own thing, having his uncle
run all of his affairs. That feels like a weird deal.
A southern California kid and the Lakers. Maybe he didn't
openly opine, but have thought about how can we get
(07:07):
Kawhi Leonard here? As he's a burgeoning superstar A to
way player, a versatil player at that and a guy
who could be a free agent at the end of
next season. So there are reasons to scratch your head
and go like, hey, maybe Kauai wants out, maybe he's
he doesn't, maybe he doesn't think ultimately he wants to
finish his career in San Antonio. And this next contract,
(07:30):
the two plus million dollar extension which is going to
be offered to him this offseason, that might he might
want it. He just might not want it in Santonio, Texas.
But what happens when you call somebody a liar, What
happens when you call somebody a cheater, What happens when
you call somebody a phony, What happens when you call somebody,
(07:51):
in this case, a faker. All the reactions the same.
They get really mad, they get really defensive, and they
try to prove you wrong. My guess is that in
addition to not cajoling him, not comforting him, not empowering
(08:12):
him in the rehab process by leaking it to the media,
or just saying to the media a straight up we
don't think he's hurt, You've called him a liar, a cheater.
Worse than that, a Faker and Kawhi Leonards reaction is,
I'll show you. I want to spend extra time, be
(08:34):
extra careful, take care of me, because no one who
cares about me would ever talk to me or treat
me that way. All Right, I mean, look, some of
this is it says a lot about modern science. We
just think that, you know, you just patch guys up.
It's the it's the Remember when Adrian Peterson tore his
(08:54):
a c L and he was back, and now he's
back the next year and he's m v P and
and comeback player. Do you remember that? And we expected
that to be every single player. Heck, even on his
own team. Tony Parker had a similar, if not the
same injury, and Tony Parker's back. Granted, Tony Parker is
now a bench player, no longer a starter. But some
of that's more more age than anything else. But but
(09:20):
the simple and interesting side note to this is we
all just think that modern science is guy gets hurt,
he's out, he comes back, he's healthy's better than ever
and still a hum body. Everyone's built differently. Every injury
is in fact different. I don't I don't like there's
guys on Twitter who are doctors who watched inju're like, oh,
(09:41):
here's what it was. Sometimes they can, but sometimes they
can miss. I'm not excusing Kawai Leonard from participation, not
writing him a doctor's note, but if you don't feel right,
you're not gonna be you. And if you're not you,
we can't have you out it there. And that's all
(10:02):
the Spurs should have said from day one. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays
at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app Something historic happening in
the Daytona five was wasn't as historic as I think
he wanted it to be. But look, his first African
American driver to finished second. Still you want to win?
(10:23):
Bubba Wallace joins us on the Doug gottlip Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. First African American driver to finish
second at the Daytona five hundred, Bubba, how are you?
I'm good? How are you, sir? Good man? Um? If
you could go back and change one thing about the race,
and like, look, I know it's a long afternoon. Those
of us who watched on Fox, like we're said, we
(10:45):
get tired watching at home. I can't imagine racing the
entire time at home. You could do one thing differently,
what would you think? I think you know the answer
to that when the race, Yeah, but but what what
was there one thing you could have done earlier in
the race? Late in the race? Obviously it said goes
over time. What what there's one thing you could do differently?
(11:05):
What would it be? Um, you know, we all got
kind of spread out there at the end, so it's
kind of hard to do. But uh, there was a
lot of moves and I think I missed out on
but then they would have a wreck would happen a
half lap later, so it was like, Okay, I missed
out on that move for a good reason. So I
don't know, I wouldn't change anything. Maybe if we just
got formed up a little bit better at the end,
we would have had a shot at winning. But all
(11:25):
in all, a second is a great day. Are you
a are you a mental note guy? Are you a
journal guy? I know obviously anybody who's watched the Facebook
Facebook a docuseries Behind the Wall, Behind the Wall of
Bubba Wallace, which chronicles your road to the Dayton of
five hundred Um. But but when you get done with
the race, and like everybody learns things from experiences, do
(11:46):
those experiences go upstairs? And do you actually write them down? Oh?
They go upstairs for sure, and and uh, actually I
do have their journal. I'm a little bit of both. Well,
don't get me wrong, I'll jot everything down as well.
But the mental notes you gotta remember for for when
you go back there, Um, of what to expect and
how we tackled that weekend. Bubba Wallas joining us. For
(12:07):
people who who don't know the story, you became the
first graduate of the NASCAR Drive for Diversity Development Program
to compete in a NASCAR Nationwide Series race. And since then,
of course, you won what six times the Camping World
Truck Series. Um to go from that to nearly winning
at Daytona and I obviously you want to win the race.
(12:27):
But this entire experience, how how would you how would
you relate it to any average fan who's driving around?
Listen to you right now, what's it been like? It's
been Uh, it's been exciting. It's been a little bit exhausting. Um,
it's uh, it's been just a lot of fun. Just
to be able to document what's all been going on
for the last you know, a month and a half.
(12:48):
We not three months ago and when we started the
Facebook watch show, Uh, looking back, where I was at
last year was without a ride and now we're we're
driving that kind of number forty three. So pretty special
moment for sure. We've we've seen you with number fourty three.
Of course Richard Petty's car. He came embraced you before
the race. There's been some great press conferences between the
two of you. What are the private moments, like, what's
(13:09):
he really like to you? Oh, he's he's a he's
a great mentor, a great leader and just an all
around awesome guy. For for as old as he is, Uh,
you wouldn't think he's that old. I mean eighty two
years old and still is witty, still has that that's
fun natured bone in his body. Um, just always cracking jokes,
(13:30):
making sure everyone is doing their job, and just an
awesome guy to be around. Is he gonna give you
one of his hats? I got one, actually I got
one last year. He gave it to me as a
token for uh, for driving their car, and that was
pretty special. But is it your hat size or his?
Hat size. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So you've
(13:51):
never actually worn the hat you just got that. You're like, oh,
I got the King's hat, but oh yeah, we we
He gave me a glass display as well, so it's
it's it's put up nice at the house. Now do
you call him King? Do you call him Richard? You
call Mr? Petty? What do you call him? I call
him all the above? It's never consistent. Bubba Wallace, Mr King,
Richard Petty, sir uh guy who also obviously was in
(14:14):
cars as well. Okay, so help me out with this.
You you haven't run from You have embraced the idea
of being African American driver, black driver, and you said
you're gonna hear more. You're gonna hear more about it.
How do you how do you handle it? How do
you when when when people introduce you and they always
want to put the African American driver. Now you're the you.
(14:35):
You finished, You had the best finished in the history
of the raised for an African American driver at Daytona
five D. Like, is there a point to which you
just want to be known as Bubba Wallace or do
you want to continue carrying this badge of honor along
with you. Yeah, I mean there's some point, well, at
some point it's gonna change, um, but right now there's
there's just me. I'm the only one at the top levels.
So I'm trying to represent that that uh that you
(14:57):
vanished point the best way I can and and uh
and doing the best I can on and off the
race track is only gonna help that number grow. So
as long as I do that, then we'll see how
long it takes for for that that conversation uh to
change to being the race car driver now instead of
the black racecar driver. All right, So here's what I
really want to know. I took my son to K
one Speed, which is like a go kart place. The Yeah,
(15:21):
those things are dope, and I want to like the
adult ones are awesome, but I I took him in
a couple of buddies. We go all the time. He
loves the place. So when did you first start drive?
When did you first start driving anything fast? When I
was nine years old driving go karts? Uh, asphalt go carts.
So the ones you are that are different from from
K one Speed but still gave you a little bit
(15:41):
of feeling for And then when did you like I
want to do Because every kid says I want to
do that, but they also say I want to be
a fireman, I want to be a policeman. I want
to be this, I want to be that. My son
wants to be a professional baseball player, then he wants
to be a driver. When when were you I really
want to do this. I don't know if I ever
really was, to be honest with UM, I just kept
(16:01):
doing it, and kept doing it, and then moving up
throughout the ranks, winning those races, moving up to the
next one, winning those races as well, and and it
just seemed like the right thing to do. I never
I don't think I once said that this is what
I want to do for sure. I mean, obviously that's
what I want to do now. Um that's all I
know how to do. I mean, fifteen years in this
in the racing one of the motor sports world, I
can't only turn back now. And I think it was
(16:23):
two thousand ten where I act said those exact words myself.
So there's way too many tears and blood, sweat, and
and and effort thrown into my program. There's no no
way I can turn back now and throw it all away,
So let's just keep digging. How do you process the fear? Right?
That's the This was the the anniversary obviously of uh
(16:44):
twenty anniversary of Dale and Hard Junior winning seventeenth anniversary
of his death. Um, you guys read dangerous speeds. We've
seen so many uh so many of the veterans retired
and I know they were retiring because they can make
money owning teams. They can make money as commentators. But
one reason they retire now they have kids and they're like, look,
it's a lot safer to watch and to be an
owner than is to to race. How do you how
(17:06):
do you make that fear of what could possibly happen
go away while you're behind the wheel. Yeah, I mean
you got you have no fear. That's that's how you
manage it. Just have no fear at all. You just
go out and do do what you do. Um. You know,
if we had fear, you would see uh, you wouldn't
see me. I was out there driving today, especially with
the speeds that we're at right now. We go out
(17:26):
and do it because we love it and we we
know the factor and the risk that are that are
with that there's a lot of a lot of risks
that come with driving. But we we love the thrill
of winning. We love the thrill of driving and going
through in a mile an hour, and and and being
competitive and and and beating our other competitors by thousands
of an inch. We we thrive off that and fear.
(17:47):
Fear does not settle in anywhere with us. All right,
So now that you have a ride, you've you've done that,
you've done the Daytona nearly wanted. What's the track you're
most looking forward to? Um, Martin's Villa and Dover. Those
two places really stand out to me just because we've
had so much, so much success there in the truck days. Um,
you know, Martin Zille went in two clocks Dover. We've
(18:10):
had too much success in every car off climbed in there.
So I'm excited about that. Um. So it's coming up
on the schedule soon. How different is that are the
trucks from the NASCAR series, like in in terms of
like the actual driving of it. What's the biggest difference?
The speed for sure, and speeding the way these things handle. Um,
you know, trucks will get up to one eight and
(18:31):
then cup cars will get up to uh to to
ten to twenty, and so you feel that, you feel
the difference in those speeds, um, and when you're going
that fast, it's a lot harder to hang onto. You
got beef, don't you. I mean, like I'm I'm reading,
we're drivers, you have you have beef with dudes already? No, no, no,
they got beef with with me totally different. Why what
(18:53):
did you do? What, Bubble? What could you have possibly
done this early in the season where guys already have
beef with you? Man? You know, I just show up
and I'm changing up the game. I'm I'm beating him.
That's what it is. Do you think it's jealousy. No,
I don't think it's jealousy at all. It's just we're
competitive and we want to beat each other fair enough,
fair enough. I mean Austin Dillon, he runs a dude
(19:14):
straight off the track and they're like hugging afterwards. Yeah,
well you just you just you just ruined somebody's chance
and win the day total five hundred. They hug afterwards.
All you've done is, you know, finished second and guys
that beef with you, Bubba, How is that possible? That's
uh That's what NASCAR is all about. That's what racing
and motorsports is all about, my friend. It's it's that
(19:34):
competitive edge that gets the best of us. You're also
a gamer. Favorite go to video game is what pub
What's ub G? I don't honestly don't want to tell
this pub G is. It's short for a Player unknown
Battlegrounds right now, So the computer game that's out that
I've been playing for the last three months every day awesome.
(19:55):
You get no sleep because this is what you do
at night with the headset on, don't you. Basically yes, sir?
All right, um, give me the show that give me
the show that you most recently binged. Um. I wouldn't
say bands, but we we keep up with This is Us?
So I love that show. How did This Is Us?
Is like a sensitive show that's like a married I
(20:16):
have three kids, that's like that's me and my wife's show.
How is that your show? Did you see the post
race interview of mine after day? How emotional I was?
It looked like I just got done watching an episode
of This Is Us? Fair enough, Bubba, great to catch up.
We'll talk to you next time, because next time you're
gonna be in Checkers obviously we know either Martinsville or Dover,
but hopefully sometime in between as well. Thanks so much
(20:36):
for joining us. All right, thank you man. I appreciate that. Enjoyed.
All right, that's Bubba Wallis joining us on the Doug
Gottlip Show. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox sports radio dot com and within the I Heart
Radio app. Because the West is seen to be so
much better now and has been so much better for
a good number of years, there's a conversation about the
(20:59):
East West co mingo in the playoffs and getting ready
for the NBA Finals. Do that? I don't know. Um
and Lebron James had this to say about the possibility
of changing the NBA's playoff format the school to mess
around with All Star game. You know we can do that,
(21:19):
but let's let's not let's not get so crazy about
the about the playoffs. You know, we have Eastern Conference,
you have Western Conference, and you know you have the
certain conference champions. You have guys that win the championship
from Eastern Conference who was the big dance and then
sometimes you have it from the Western from No. I
tend to agree with him. He also is a Lebron
(21:41):
is also a student of the game. He knows the
history of the game, and he understands that one of
the unique things about the history of the NBA is
you have had these East West rivalries. Warriors calves four
is good for basketball. The ratings would tell you as such,
the Lakers versus the Celtics. If you went to the Lakers,
the Celtics will be around. That would be incredible to
do an incredible number. Plus, you want to keep East
(22:07):
Coast fans engaged. You don't want to be One of
the reasons college football's ratings are down is because it's
seen as a southeastern sport. If I'm on the West coast,
I'm not really in on the Clemson in the Alabama thing. Sorry.
If you're in the Midwest, the Ohio states eliminated, I'm
I'm not really in on it. East Coast Northeast has
always struggled to get in on college football. You don't
(22:27):
want to be seen as a regional sport. Think about
when baseball had the Mets versus the Yankees. New York
went crazy for it. The rest of us didn't care
ratings plummeted. But I think that some people believe this
is a legacy protector for Lebron. The Lebron's protecting his
(22:50):
legacy that if he stays in the East, he can
keep getting to the finals he's gotten the last seven years.
And maybe this is Lebron telling us he's now going
to l A because he wants to keep that that
legacy alive of going to the finals and playing in
the Weast with the weaker Eastern Conference where they can
beat up on the Raptors, and and he can still
(23:11):
own the Celtics, and the Nicks offer no sort of resistance,
and the Wizards, who they play tonight, they're they're not
really ready for prime time. Right, this is what that's
what This is what Lebron is doing. I think we're
looking at Lebron all wrong. Lebron James does not think
like a normal human being. Normal human beings think, well,
(23:35):
if I stay in the East, I want an easier
road to the finals, because I've been the seventh straight
NBA finals. I get to eighth straight this year, I
get to nine, I can get to ten, I can
put up records just then get in the finals. That
no one has ever, no one will ever will ever
be able to surpass. That's how normal human beings think.
Lebron doesn't think that way. Lebron James thinks he's going
(23:57):
to win everywhere anywhere he goes, or even if he stays.
Do you know why Lebron thinks that way, Because Lebron
James has one everywhere he's gone, no matter where he's been,
seven consecutive times. So so saying that Lebron only wants
(24:17):
East West because he's in the East to make a consect,
Lebron didn't care. Do you think Lebron doesn't think. Wait
if I go to the Lakers and I got Paul George,
who's a better player than anybody has with him right
now at the Calves, and I got all those young
guys who will be two, three, four years in the NBA,
I can't imagine immediately turn that around, Like no way
(24:39):
he turned Miami around. Look at the record here before
he got there. Look what he did with the UH
with the Cleveland Cavaliers. But the first and the second time,
you can tell me that Lebron's thoughts that he can
win anywhere he goes aren't reasonable. But He's exceeded anybody's
reasonable expectation period. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
(25:03):
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I
Heart Radio app. Sports Illustrated John Warthime, co author to
piece which depicted the Mavericks, says, I guess what the
cliche of what locker room behavior would be like. The
crazy part was the locker room did not have locker
room behavior. John Worthime from Sports Illustrator joins us on
(25:25):
Fox Sports Trader, John, how are you good? Thanks to
Duck good Man. Um. Okay, So I look when when
I read it, I tried to read it in detail.
There were obviously some alarming stuff in there, but it
did focus on three major really three pieces, right. It
was the former CEO, the HR director, and a guy
(25:46):
who wrote for we call him a beat writer. But
when you write for the team's website and collect um
and collect checks from the team, you're not really a
beat writer. You're you know, right, you're a You're a
mouthpiece or a propaganda specialist. If you know, those are
the three names mentioned in the piece. I mean, correct,
those the central figures. Yeah, I mean I just it
(26:08):
was a cultural piece that they went beyond. I mean, yeah,
I think those were the three sort of central figures
all by that. Okay, So the question becomes, how much
like the Mark Cuban thing. First there was I didn't
know some of this stuff, Then I didn't know enough
about it, and then these these were these were f ups.
What's your thought? What have you been able to discover
(26:30):
in terms of what and when Mark knew something was
up in the business side of his organization. That's a
great question. And I suspect when this, you know, independent
investigation just going, we'll learn more. Um. No, as you say,
I talked to Mark Monday and he said he's embarrassed,
he's ashamed, it sickens him. But he knew nothing. Um.
(26:54):
That seemed to to move a little bit and and
change a bit within twenty four hours. And now you
know certain employees are making certain charges of I think
you're right the three main figures. Mark wasn't one of them,
but just didn't quickly become a story about this owner
famous for his passion and his hands on approach. How
(27:16):
is it that Mark Cuban knew nothing? Mark? Mark does listen,
I'm a basketball guy, I know everything about basketball, I
know who makes one in the analytics, I didn't know
the business side. And yet a lot of the sources
we spoke to said, you know, come on, this stuff
was an open secret. You're trying to tell me. Mark Cuban,
the most hands on owner in the NBA, didn't have
any width of this. So we'll we'll see where this goes.
(27:39):
What I don't know, I mean, like they look, there's
a lot of uncomfortable stuff there, and a lot of
behavior which, though in the past, needs to be eradicated
from any any business. You know, the one where you
have a writer who who abuses a woman who he
works with even though living relationship, and and and gets
arrested and is allowed to come back to work. I
(28:01):
forget the second offense. How does that happen? It's a
great question. I mean, clearly there there was a breakdown,
but I would mean, I would pause. They think that
one of the culprits was the CEO. Well what does
that mean? Well, first, it means that this culture is
starting at the top. If it's a guy who's basically
running the company is what we were told was a
(28:21):
serial harasser. We had multiple sources detail account after account
of harassment with him. It's the CEO is doing this.
Not only is he the guy in charge, so what
kind of a culture does that set? But also he's
the one hiring the HR head who people sensibly are
supposed to go to when they have complaints. He's the
one who's in charge of sort of the office dynamic.
(28:43):
This case, the HR officer aid didn't have an office.
He had a cubicle, and b was right near the
ceo S office, So you know, you can understand why
women were reluctant to file formal complaints. And then as
you say that the we'll call him a beat writer,
I understand your hesitation, but yeah, when you have a
beat writer who had a domestic violence charge that he
(29:05):
went guilty too, and it prevented him from going into Canada,
which meant that, you know, when the Mavericks played the Raptors,
he couldn't go, So that would tell me that the
team knew about this. And then he had a subsequent
domestic violence incident against a co worker Mavericks employee, and
as of two days ago he was still on the job.
(29:26):
That was really troubling. Yeah, yeah, and and they allowed
him to come back to work as long as he
wasn't alone in the presence of a woman like what
like this, this is real? This that that really happened.
Um yeah, Mark told me his his word to me
was that he needed an escort. Um again, you've got
(29:47):
an employee on the payroll who needs an escort to
do his job. Yeah, I mean I again, I was
a reporter here, I wasn't a columnist. I don't want
to go too far down the road of casting judgment.
I'll leave that to others. But yeah, that, um that
that was. That was troubling all right. So here here's
the part that I'm I'm stuck on. A CEO is
(30:10):
can be hard to get rid of, right because they
can they can know trade secrets. Maybe maybe you're super
close friends. I don't know of CEO and I CEO
of an NBA team. Sounds a little bit more powerful
than it actually is. But okay, see, but like Earl
Sneed was a nobody right, imminently replaceable, and they had
opportunities to get rid of him, and they didn't. And
(30:33):
if he and if he twice abuses women that worked
for the Mavericks, one shows up to work like why
not just get rid of him. I don't understand. Uh,
that's that's that's a question for the Mavericks. I mean,
Mark talked about the song. If you saw his interview
with ESPN, he didn't say this to me, but each
said the ESPN. Part of his thinking was, then again,
I'm just taking this from an ESPN interview he did.
(30:54):
Part of his thinking was that better we try to
correct this situation and get this guy counseling, then have
him leave the organization and take his antisocial behavior elsewhere.
But again, I mean, you think about the female employees
at the Mavericks and what it did to imperil them
that a guy with multiple domestic violence incidents, Um, it's
(31:16):
it's still going to work. And you know the other
thing that struck me doing the story. I talked, you
talked to a woman after woman, and they're upset, they
feel disrespected, they feel wounded. But so many of them
just said, you know what the heck was sports and
they didn't just leave the Mavericks, they left the entire industry.
And I don't lead have the sin sports illustrated. I
suspect you do as well. There's that there's discussion about
(31:37):
how do we get rid of this, this male female,
this disproportionate relationship. And here you have woman after woman
leaves the sports industry because they didn't feel the workplace
was safe. Um, that was something that really stuck with
me and struck me. And again, I mean the fact
that the CEO who's setting policy and setting culture has
(31:59):
this track record. He was first investigated, you would think
that subsequent to that complains that. You know, you think
that would be zero tolerance. And after that, you know
he wouldn't last for seventeen more years. And yeah, I mean,
like like you, you wonder how a guy with multiple
domestic violence incidents, one of them against a co worker
(32:21):
would keep his job while the coworker left. And she
she told us she had to apply for over two
fifty jobs before she got new employment. John Worth time
from Sports Hill Shape, joining us in the Doug Gottlib
show here on Fox Sports Trader, all right, did the
how many people work for the Mavericks in the business side? Uh?
That that I couldn't tell. I mean, I can countered
(32:44):
in the media guy, but that's that I don't have
the precise numbers. I guess, I guess one of the things.
You guys did an excellent job of showing. Was there's
the one line where said, you know that the place
of refuge was actually the locker room from this court
of locker room behavior. But there were no coaches, there
were no scouts at least accused in the piece, and
there were no players accused in the piece. And so
(33:05):
if I were to take issue with the idea of
a culture, is if there was a cultural sexual harassment,
how come it didn't leak into the basketball side of it. Yeah,
it's it's a great question. And we also we we
talked about sort of locker room atmosphere colloquially. Well, here,
in this case, the locker room atmosphere was completely respectful
(33:26):
to women. And they said again again and again, they said, listen, dork,
no whiskey. Great, you know they take off the name
Vince Carter, Great Shawn Mary and great Rick Carlisle. Nothing
but professional. These women would say, we talk about the
locker room, you go in the actual locker room and
we were treated like human beings. We get to our
desk and that's where guys were watching porn. That's where
(33:46):
you know, we were hearing things that we never should
have heard and CEOs harassing us. So yeah, I mean
I think there's a certain I mean again, I think
it sounds like such a business book cliche. But the
leader sets the culture, and I don't if you saw
Rick Carlisle's remarks yesterday, I mean, clearly, this is not
a guy who would tolerate anything like that. I mean
he was, he was very outspoken. Um. Clearly the CEO,
(34:08):
the Rick Carlisle equivalent on the business side, uh, looked
at things much differently. Yeah, now that that but that
But there's where I think, and I understand that it
is under the Mavericks banner, but it unfortunately cast a
shadow over the Mavericks team when this has nothing to
do with the Mavericks team per se. It's more the
it's the it's the business side. And I don't know
(34:28):
if the mainstream sports fan spends enough time and really
reads your reads the piece and sports sociation understands there's
a differentiation with the two. Is that fair? Yeah? I mean,
we we put that one line about how the locker
room not only did this not involve players, the players
here were sort of the virtuous part who were trying
to put that line high in the story and make
(34:48):
clear this is not a story about athletes, And yeah,
I mean it's interesting to me just covering sports. Mean,
when was the last time you had a sports scandal
like this where it didn't involve athletes at all? All?
I mean, this this was as you say this, this
was you know, Earl's need the website writer. But the
actual athletes who are associated with Mavericks, we're the gentleman.
(35:10):
And the other thing too, that's interesting about that to
your point is people have talked about punishment and what
should the NBA do? And your Cuban gets fine six
and our grand for tanking? What's the fine when there's
an atmosphere like this? But you know, just judging reporting
the story, it seems to be unfair. You're gonna take
away draft picks, You're gonna sort of newter the team,
(35:30):
when again, as you say that, that the team itself
is really very separate from the culture we were describing.
So how do you how do you punish the Mavericks
without exacting a price on the basketball, especially when the
basketball side had nothing to do with this. Um Again,
I think I'm given Mark Cuban's outspoken is so far,
(35:52):
and I think he deserves some credit for that. I
think this independent investigation we'll have some teeth and I
think when we get a results of that, um, we'll
have a lot to your first question, will have a
lot more sense of of who knew what and when
did they know it? And that will probably help fashion
punishment if appropriate. Yeah, it's it's interesting. You know, we
(36:12):
we taught Chris Mannox was on yesterday, um, and and
he said like, look, here's the NBA and NBA TV
still employees Isaiah Thomas and he was running the Knicks,
you know during their embarrassing sexual harrassment sexual hairessment UH
lawsuit which over eleven million dollars with the nucle browns
uh Nukele brown Smith think was was the lady's name
(36:34):
who was one of the topics, right, Um, So I
think it's it is fascinating that that, Look, the culture
is unacceptable. It has been there and even in the league,
which is as forward thinking as the NBA, uh, they
have you know, they have just as much guilt as
any of these other professions. Right, Like you're uncovering something
that I hope doesn't exist elsewhere, but might well have
(36:56):
existed elsewhere. Yeah, I don't know if I'd go that,
I mean, I don't, I mean I would, I wouldn't
necessarily think they have as much guilt as these other professions.
But yeah, I mean it's it's really problematic. Tour deema
Ussery was it David Stern protegee. David Stern essentially installed
him as CBA commissioner. He was on the NBA Board
of Governors. Um, you know that the NBA had very
close ties with this individual. Like you say this, I mean,
(37:19):
if I if Isaiah Thomas, if that lawsuit happens post
me too, if that happened in the last six months
and didn't happen more than ten years ago, there's no
way Isaiah Thomas is working for the for the league's network.
Having said that, you know, as these as these things go,
I think at the slippery slopes to starret comparing industries.
And again, I mean, the way the story came about
(37:40):
was I did a story on Jerry Richardson about two
months ago, and after that came out, we had some
tips about the Mavericks. Jerry Richardson never returned a phone call.
I don't think he's spoken on record to anyone. He's
certainly not apologized to some of the women who feel
very hurt by his conduct. I mean, I do feel
like I need to stress that I probably spoken to
Mark Cuban, you know, half a dozen times in the
(38:02):
last seventy two hours. Um, you know, he has not
hidden and I think you know he's he's owed some
credit there. Yeah, two different types of pr One is
shut it down, don't start talking, because you know, like, look,
Mark Cuban obviously goes the other way, and Cuban has
the equity from Shark Tank, the equity from winning a championship,
and the equity to say, look, I'm I'm actually talking
about this thing. On the other hand, he did you know,
(38:24):
he contradicted himself between his first discussion with you and
subsequent interviews. Correct. Yeah, and uh, I mean he he
called me and said, listen, I just don't I don't
want to mislead you. I went back and looked at
some emails. I mean, I think, you know, it's it's
a fluid situation. As we say, I mean employees that
we're working for the Mavericks forty eight hours or not
working there now. But you know, again, I compare this
(38:47):
and in Jerry Richardson's case, he was the accused figure.
Mark Cuban is not the accused party. But but I
am struck by how these two different franchises have responded
in two very different ways. Fascinating and of course the
Panthers are Jerry Richarsons selling the team, which happened almost
immediately after your last piece came out, John, Uh. Look
forward to talking with you under under better circumstances, maybe
(39:11):
some maybe some tennis upcoming. I love your stuff there.
In the meantime, thanks so much for joining us. You
got next time. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three pm Eastern
noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart
Radio app.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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