April 11, 2018 • 53 mins
Doug explains why Russell Westbrook almost averaging a triple-double for the second straight season isn't that impressive. He also thinks Dez Bryant's days as a Dallas Cowboy could be coming to an end. 2x NBA Champion Ray Allen joins the show to talk about how things ended in Boston with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Rajon Rondo and who’s the G.O.A.T: LeBron James or Michael Jordan.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of the Doug Gottlieb Show on
Fox Sports Radio. Boom, What Up America. Doug Gottlieb Show,
Fox Sports Radio coming to you daily live from sunny
southern California. Speaking of Southern California, Man, am I thrilled
(00:21):
to be on live starting tomorrow in San Diego, America's
finest city, ninety seven point three FM The Machine. Um,
it's pretty cool, right So now, Phoenix, Seattle, Vegas, San Diego,
we are in. We are in circling in snaring the
(00:42):
entire West coast here. Uh, don't worry, East Coast. We
still were thinking of you in the Southeast and the Midwest.
We got your back. And if you're listening to us
on any of our terrestrial radio Phillis and I get
a lot of people like, what is to restaural radio
that's like your regular radio. We're on Sirius sex M
channel eighty three the first two hours at least. We'll
try and get that third. Our are on in the
very near term, near term. We can also download the
(01:04):
I Heart Radio app, listen to us anywhere, or listen
to us digitally Fox Sports Radio dot Com. We've got
podcasts We've got everything you want, but uh fired up
to be on in San Diego. And oh yeah, by
the way, music this part. You don't know you boys
thrown out the first pitch of the Padres game tomorrow night.
Look at that. So what's interesting about that? Have have
you guys ever been involved been involved with anybody thrown
(01:26):
at the first pitch? I okay, so I've done this
once before actually with the Angels, um and um uh.
It's like the first time you do, it's kind of
nerve wrack because everybody's like, dude, you don't want to
you don't want to go fitti cent right. You don't
want to throw something and look like you've never played baseball.
The best part about this is I have a nine
year old son and I pitched to his team. Although
(01:48):
I did is a little kid named Mason. Sorry Mason.
I went high and tight get him right in the
middle of the back Monday afternoon at batting practice. And
he's the one kid who's been stepping in the bucket
a little bit, a little bit scared of the ball,
and I was like, no, no, you're fine, And then
you know, they all want me to heat it up,
throw a little bit harder and one got away from me.
(02:09):
Might might you know I have I have some late
movement and a late movie turned away from the ball,
and I mean to hit him square in the back.
Sorry Mason, but I I have thrown off the bump
probably seven or eight times at Hayes's practice, granted to
a shorter, shorter mound. But um, there'll be some heat
(02:29):
coming out, they'll, I'll, I'll probably I won't be throwing
Uncle Charlie, but I'll be throwing some heat tomorrow as
the Padres take on the Giants in San Diego. So
that'll be a ton of fun. And I don't think,
I hope. Well, last time it was a little bit inside.
I didn't airmail it. I think this time I expect
to throw a strike anyway. Fired up tonight. It's nice
(02:51):
last night of the NBA season, right, isn't there? Right?
Believe so last night of the NBA season, which means
we'll have the entire playoff picture. You hear Dan Buyer
with our updates when bringing dam Buyer later on, he'll
he'll give us kind of the rundown of what exactly
is at stake The Oklahoma City thunder in the playoffs,
and of course they can climb in terms of securing
(03:12):
their playoffs seed, make it a higher one with a win.
I think it's tonight right against Memphi against Memphis Grizzlies.
So yeah, I am, I am correct, right, okay, And
if you've seen who the Memphis Grizzlies are starting, you
feel pretty good about it. Additionally, Russell Westbrook is like
nineteen rebounds away from sixteen excuse me, sixteen rebounds away
(03:36):
from averaging a triple double, which, of course, if you've
been watching recently, there have been some rebounds which you're like,
all right, they kind of wanted him to get those boards.
Here's Russell Westbrook on some of the discussion regarding his
stats at rebounds. If people could get twenty rebounds every night,
(03:58):
they were people your rebounds, they were people talking or
say whatever you we need to say they should try
and doing to see how hard on everybody wants to
be talking. And you know, I'm tired of him the
same old rebound miss still in rebound. Yeah, okay, I mean, like, look,
I'm there's there's part of me which which agrees with him,
(04:20):
and part of which me with which disagrees to them.
I mean, look at this as he as he would
even tell you the stats don't lie, right, alright, but
the stats don't lie. He does have a ton of
double digit rebound games since the middle of February. There
was a good there was a good stretch of games
there where he wasn't in February in January. But by
(04:42):
and large, he's a really good rebounding guard. Now, I
don't want my guards rebounding. I just don't want, especially
my point guard, a guy with his speed. I think
one of the big flaws is that Russell Westbrook rebounds.
That's a huge mistake. See what's what's faster than the drip?
John Ramos? If you you coach, you soccer, but the
(05:03):
the the emphasis in soccer and in basketball is the same, right,
that a pass is faster than the dribblers and none. Yes,
And so one of the big issues that I have
with Billy Donovan's coaching is why the hell is Russell
Westbrook under they're getting boards? To begin with, he should
be getting deep outlet passes. He should be between the
(05:26):
top of the key and mid court. And if he
did so, can you imagine their fast break? He's already
the best athlete in the league. It's not close the
best athlete in the league. But because he's catching the
ball at that close, that close to the basket, he
has to beat four, sometimes five guys down the floor,
(05:48):
and that hurts their transition game, that hurts his own
field goal percentage. Frankly, I think that creates if you
were assists for him. So, while Russell Westbrook is right,
it is it is hard to get ten rebounds. I
never got time rebounds ten rebounds in the game. I
don't think ever. But it's also not my job to
get rebounds. It's just not ain't my job. And um,
(06:12):
I love that he's a versatile player. I love how
competitive he is, but I would point out it ain't
his job. You're doing somebody else's job. Now your job.
That doesn't mean you don't ever rebound. End of game.
Everybody rebounds, you get caught underneath switching. Got a big guy,
you gotta box out. But honestly, when you box out,
you don't necessarily have to rebound. Just make sure your
(06:34):
guy doesn't get the basketball. Long caraming rebounds you should
get it, you should collect it. But by and large,
and this is a generalization that ain't your job. And
so part of Russell Westbrook doing somebody else's job and
no one calling him on it is part of the problem.
And here's the other thing. Either Russell Westbrook is the
(06:56):
most dynamic, the most diverse player in terms of skill
set that we have seen since Oscar robertson or or
well there's this other or or these are stats on steroids,
that's all they are. And it feels to me more
like the latter than the former. I bring this up
(07:20):
quite often because it's an easy it's a simple way
to make my explanation. Um, you go to passing yards
for NFL quarterbacks and last year was a little bit
of an exception because we had so many injuries, right, uh,
and but the numbers were generally down in terms of
four thousand yards pastors. Last year there was only oh,
(07:41):
I say emphasize only eight. That's because if you look
in some previous years there were more than eight. You
look at two thousand sixteen and you had thirteen four
thousand yard pastors. Thirteen four thousand yard pastors. Go back
fifteen years to two thousand and two and you had four, right,
(08:06):
you had four, And go to two thousand three. Look
at the fact that the stats have in fact changed,
Right in two thousand two, you had four. In two
thousand three you had to four thousand yard pastors just too,
just two and those two were Peyton Manning and Trent
(08:30):
Green Tom Brady, and two thousand three only through four
hundred yards. It's pretty pretty amazing, right, how the NFL
has changed. It started to transform itself in two thousand
four when we had four a sume five four thousand
yard passers. But you go all the way to two
thousand sixteen and we had thirteen two thousand yard passers
(08:56):
and Derek Carr was fourteen. And the only reason Derek Carr,
if you remember this is not last year, it's the
previous year, it didn't throw for four thousand yards. He
got hurt. He missed the last two games. So either
we have way better passers than we've ever had, or
if you look at the attempts, guys are attempting six hundred,
(09:19):
six hundred plus passing attempts. In two thousand sixteen, we
had five players attempt six attempt to pass six hundred times.
You go back to those stats and remember two thousand three,
the most passes attempt him were five hundred seventy by
Brad Johnson, paid Manning five sixty six. With a hundred
(09:42):
more pass attempts comes, you know, fifty more completions, or
if it's in this case, it's Paid Manning sixty seven
more completions, sixty seven more completions. When you're completing them,
even at five six yards a pop, you're gonna get
more yards you're going it's in other words, in the NFL,
(10:03):
how we view stats have changed because of the number
of plays, the number of possessions, the number of attempts.
The exact same thing has happened in the NBA. And
if you're not paying attention to that, and you're simply
falling in love with Russell Westbrook because of the volume
of points, the volume of assists, you're missing out on.
(10:24):
He dribbles, he handles the ball, more, he shoots the ball, more,
he passes at the last second to make an assist. More,
and with more and more and more becomes more stats.
And just like stats in um August and September in
Major League Baseball are a little bit hollow because of
the September collups. Just like stats against the Memphis Grizzlies
(10:47):
and other tanking teams are a little bit hollow because
you're playing against G League players in games in which
they're trying to lose. The same can be said for
Russell Westbrook. I'm not saying he's not an incredible player,
but he shouldn't even be rebounding to begin with. He
should be triggering their break, getting the past, get the
outlet pass. And he's not better than all of the
(11:07):
other guards that we've seen. He simply has a greater
volume of touches he handles. Them are more rebounds the
ball more, there's more shots to rebound, more possessions, more passes,
more shots more overall ball dominance, which they call use
high usage rate in the n b A and you
kind of create this fictitious narrative that somehow he's statistically
(11:27):
better than anybody over the past forty years in the NBA,
and that's not accurate. It doesn't mean he's not a
great player, a great a great competitor. It just means
don't use stats as your argument, because you will lose
based upon the fact the stats are skewed because of
how the game is played. Be sure to catch live
editions of the Doug gott Leaps Show weekdays at three
(11:48):
pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
I Heart Radio app. Chris Mannix is an NBA insider
for years for Yahoo Sports. Make sure you check out
his new show Sundays at new Eastern time alongside NBA
champion and All Star Karen Butler here on Fox Sports Radio, Max,
Let's let's start with the debacle with the Warriors getting
(12:11):
blown out by the Jazz. And I know they still
don't have staff and they haven't been playing all of
their starters starters minutes, but it is getting to be
a little bit kind of is it in time to
be nervous a little bit about the Warriors in the playoffs? Yeah,
I don't know what to make it, but really I
will say that it's it's it's fortunate that the most
(12:34):
likely scenario is that they don't play Oklahoma City in
the first round, because I think that would have been
the series that could have been enormously problematic if they're
playing this way and they're playing without Steph Curry, not
just because of the obvious matchup the Quinn Cook Russell Westbrook,
but Kevin Durant would have to shoulder a bigger load offensively.
(12:55):
With Curry out going back to Oklahoma City, what's his
mental mindset in and that type of setting the intensity
of Oklahoma City, which has to be playing with kind
of a palpable desperation right now, knowing what's at stake
for maybe the future of this team. Um, I think
they can right the ship in the first round with
another matchup in front of them, But if they were
(13:17):
playing Oklahoma seeing that first round, I would have real
concerned about their ability to win that series. What's your
best guests? I when Steff returns, well, I think second round.
And this is a lot of talking to people around
that team and guess work on that team, and you know,
understanding stuff a little bit. You know, they're they're they're
(13:38):
optimistic that that second round is doable. Now, what what
does he look like when he comes back? I mean
that remains to be seen. I mean it's like you know,
when when people say you see a timeline on this stuff,
they assumed that that means when a guy is going
to be out in the court looking like his former self.
That's that's not the case at all, as you know.
I mean, it's it's it's when the guy can resume
(13:58):
basketball activities. From there, it's all about how his body
responds to practice and recovery, so we'll see what he
looks like. But I think the second round is a
realistic timeline for step. All right, let's get to how
the playoffs appeared to be lining up. What what do
the what do the Rockets want to have happened tonight? What? What?
Who wins that benefits the Rockets the most? You know,
(14:20):
I'd rather play Denver Um. You know, I know the
Nuggets are surging at the moment, and your kids is
a problem, But you know that is an abysmal defensive team.
So you're you're you're asking a team that doesn't defend
and try to outscore a team that is a great
scoring team. Mike D'Antoni coach team. I just don't see
(14:40):
if the Timberwolves are you know, with Butler back, it's
this is way too high as ceiling there now. Now
they could get broomed out just as easily as the
uh as the Nuggets could. But when you're Houston, you're
probably looking at the least talented team, the least experienced team,
maybe the lesser coach team in that situation on paper, Um,
you know that's the Denver Nuggets. Nuggets. I wouldn't surprise
(15:03):
if they got in because I would imagine there are
some jobs on the line in a game like like tonight.
But um, I'd rather play them in the first round
for I was Houston. Chris Mannox joining us from Yahoo
Sports and Fox Sports Radio. Check out his show on
weekends on Sunday at twelve o'clock Eastern time on Fox
Sports Radio. Um, let's go to the East. The Calves
(15:26):
struggled and struggled and struggled, and then Lebron over the
last month has looked like vintage Lebron for the most part,
especially at the offensive end. People haven't paid attention to
the fact that he does as you have. You point
out taking some defensive possessions off and there are there
are you know, half the teams the league are trying
to lose. That said, I I'm just struggling to find
another team to lock into. Wizards look better last night,
(15:47):
but they haven't consistently looked better since John Wall's return.
If not the Calves, then who Yeah. I'm still buying
into the Raptors and have been for a while. Um,
when they struggled over the last month or so when
they had that stretch games where they went like three
and four or four and five, whatever it was. M
(16:08):
the problems they were dealing with were or defensive problems,
and defense is a lot a lot easier for the Raptors,
who have traditionally been a top flight defensive team, to
clean up if they were having offensive issues. If it
was you know, we're going back into Marja Rosen and
Kyle Lowry and we're playing you know, alternative shot there,
(16:30):
I would have said that that's a team to be
really concerned with, because we know that that type of
offensive system fails in the playoffs. That they weren't dealing
with that spur in that stretch, it was given up
a whole bunch of points. I think the defense, you know,
the first couple of rounds, is gonna be easier for
them to clean up than some offensive issues we're gonna
be and and look, if you look in at Cleveland.
One one big issue I have is kind of their
(16:50):
decision to effectively say we're gonna try to outscore you
in the playoffs, but by putting Jeff Green and Kevin
Love together on the front line, they're more or less
saying screw it. You know, we're gonna try to win
one ten every single night. I canber a team that
did that, at least not at a really high level.
Now it's it's if they were in the Western conferences,
(17:12):
say wow, they might get beat in the first round.
Not the case in the East. But you just if
you're just gonna try to outscore teams in the postseason,
it just very rarely works, and I can't see it
working this time around, no matter how great Lebron is. Um.
You you talked a little bit about Oklahoma City, and
I look at Russell Westbrook and look the averaging a
(17:33):
triple double for a second straight year, which is a
distinct possibility, especially against the Grizzlies. All he needs a sixteen.
Been patting those stats a little bit, Um, It's an
amazing feat. But how much of it is Russell Westbrook
being awesome and how much of it is Look, stats
are skewed because there's such a much higher volume of
possessions considering the way in which basketball has played. I mean,
(17:56):
I hate to the hedge, it is a little bit
of both. I mean, down the stretch, as you said,
some of the stat padding that that he does both
at the end of games at the end of the season. Um,
you know that plays a pretty significant role. But man,
he you know, he's awesome, Like he really is awesome
out there on the floor. The problem Westbrook has is that,
(18:17):
you know, this team hasn't really improved despite all the
the the upgrades they've made this past uh, this this
past offseason. There they're gonna finish with right around the
same number of wins and and kind of the same
type of team and entered the postseason, which you know
I've said for a while now, Doug, this is the
most important postseason of Russell Westbrook's career. It's more important
(18:38):
than what happened in twelve. It's more important than what
happened a couple of years ago against Golden State. If
they flame out in the first round, the chances that
Paul George Walks ratchets up exponentially, and then what is
Oklahoma City for the next five years the prime of
Russell's career. There probably a team that claused their way
into the playoffs, maybe squeeze it the second round every year.
(18:59):
If they win a couple of rounds, Paul George might
be more likely to stay and all of a sudden,
your team it's adding on to a potential championship contender
every single year. So I can't imagine mistakes for any
player this postseason being higher than what they are for
Russell Westbrook. Last night, I thought it was Donovan Mitchell
wearing a sweatshirt that I think Adidas Maaye form is
brilliant about, you know, the definition of what a rookie is.
(19:23):
And look, I've been on I don't know, it's a
little bit of a bandwagon all years saying I think
Ben Simmons has had the better year, is the better
all around player, but he's a red shirt rookie, and
I don't know, there is no uh first year Player
of the Year award or Newcomer of the Year award
like there is in some college basketball conference. Instead, it's
(19:43):
all called rookie year, and Blake Griffin is one it
even though he read shirted with injury his first year.
Where do you come down on on the debate, Well,
it's one of those debates that that that doesn't really
consume a lot of brain space for me, Like it's
it's the NBA rule enough kind of always kind of
nodded my head at it. I will say this what
(20:04):
Mitchell said about him, And you know Mitchell better than
I do. I spent the time with him a couple
of weeks ago and did a podcast with him and
hung out with him for a couple of days. He's
a really intelligent kid, and like one of the things
he said was that I found interesting, uh the other
night was he made the comparison to a student taking
an exam on June one and having a few weeks
to study, versus an entire season to study for which
(20:26):
one would be better prepared for that exam. He's an example,
of course, Ben Simmons having a whole year off to
prepare for this season. And it makes a valid point.
I mean, Ben C's Ben Simmons was more prepared for
this season in every possible way that Donovan Mitchell was.
So can he really be called a rookie? I mean
I I at this point, I'd be okay with the
(20:46):
NBA changing the rule and saying it's got to be
your first year in the league. Now, if you go overseas,
you do what Dario Sarak did, you can still be
considered a rookie. But if you're on NBA roster regardless
of the amount of minutes you play, aid uh, you
should that should be considered your Rookie of the Year
for award purposes, yes, but based upon how like you,
(21:07):
you'd have to go and reset the award and based
on how the how it is the term now it
doesn't matter right, So now it should be Ben Simmons,
even if you feel like Donovan Mitchell is the only
true rookie is. Look, I'm a voter and I'm gonna
vote for Ben Simmons for the next couple of days.
I when I went out to Utah, one of the
things the reasons I went there, Doug, was because not
(21:29):
every voter I think, knows what they're talking about. And
there have been some some biblically bad takes on Donovan
Mitchell the last couple of months, like, you know, like
he hasn't done it all season long. Will you know
that's dumb? Well, it's it's Rudy Gobert that's spearheaded this
effort well or this last you know, two months of play. Well,
that's true, but Gobert to the score Mitchell does. Um.
I just didn't think people were understanding really the type
(21:52):
of season now they are now, But over the last
couple of weeks, I don't think people were understanding the
type of season Mitchell was having. Um. But there's no
question in my mind. It was a tough debate for
a while. But you know, Ben Simmons, for all he's done,
plus what he's done the last couple of weeks with
Joel em beat out, I think that's really cemented his place. Um.
Last thing, how big a buyer are you into the
(22:12):
seventies six ers? I'm not because I think if it's
if it's Miami they play in the first round, I
think they get beat Um not can gebe I think
to do because I think when you give a great
coach one team to focus on in the playoffs, Um,
they're gonna exploit your weaknesses. And for all of Ben
simmons greatness, he has one enormous weakness mark El folks
(22:35):
huge weakness. I mean, they've got a limited number of
perimeter players out there, and if Joel embiad Is is
limited or not able to play, you know, certain games. Um,
I think that's that that's gonna be a probably Miami.
You know, they just play hard man. I mean they
play hard every single night. They're physical, they're less talents
that in Philadelphia. But the game slows down a lot
in the playoffs and it comes down to offensive execution
(22:57):
the playoffs. I think Miami can execute better offense when
Philly is right now and those weaknesses the seven sixers
are gonna get exploited. Chris Manx from Yahoo Sports and
Fox Sports Trader do. This is gonna be awesome. Just
keep your cell phone on because you want to have
you on as often as possible now that you're under
our wing. UM any any time you want to pop
on UM, we'd love to have you on. The meantime,
(23:18):
keep up the great work and we'll hear you on Sunday.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
Jerry Jones can even do the it's not you, It's
me think. Look, this is not we don't think any
less of you as a player. This is about salary
(23:38):
structure and where you're fitting our salary cap. And this
is our problem, not your problem, but your problem. But
but our problem becomes your problem because we gotta fit
you in our salary slot and scale I tend to agree,
And um I also I don't love the idea that
people have found out that there's a meeting. Who has
(23:59):
to do that anymore? Who has to set up a
meeting like this doesn't have to be a showdown at
the Okay Corral? Like just getting your car and go
over to DES's house, Daz's come in like ans like,
hey man, don't you just come into the come and
text and come into the facility, because now it feels
like it's for show and that I don't think that
always ends. That usually doesn't end that well, because now
(24:22):
it gives Dez a chance to kind of lead up
and get super emotional and super you know, instead you
just you want to have a conversation. Here's where we are,
knowing where we are, where are you mentally? Are you
willing to pay take a pay cut? Do you really
want to leave Dallas? Do you really want to leave Dallas?
(24:44):
That's what this kind of comes down to for me,
and um I just I don't see any way in
which he walks out of that meeting as a cowboy
with his salary intact or a salary with making nearly
the money that he was making before he walked in.
(25:07):
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Ryan Music, So let's say does in fact won't take
(25:30):
a pay cut, so he ends up getting cut by
the Cowboys? Is Dez one of those players that you
think will go the way of he's just washed up
and we will never see the desk that we once saw,
or will he take that as motivation and totally reassess
who he is as a player with whatever new team
he signs with, and he's back to being like a
(25:51):
top five receiver in the game for the next two
or three seasons. Well, I don't think he's ever going
to be a top five I just I don't think.
It's not like he's he has some like secret dummyberry
juice that he's gonna drink and start bouncing off the
walls the way he used to um. Like, Look, do
I think he could change his body and change his
game some and evolved. Yeah, I kind of you know
(26:13):
who you know who? Des reminds me of. Um, there's
there's an Iverson kind of quotient. There's an Iverson comp
to him, right, like Iverson just he couldn't. He tried
that one year. He tried to pass the ball more
on average, like seven assists a game or something even more.
But he could just never be anything more than who
(26:35):
he was, Like what Larry Fitzgerald has done, the transformation
in his game, there's a reason most guys haven't been
able to do that. It's just a hard mentally, you're
just hardwired. Des Brian has been hard wired to when
I'm out wide, if I got one on one, throw
it up, I'll go get it. And now you have
a quarterback who's not They didn't come up together. There's
(26:57):
not the bond. I don't think he's as good as
Tony rom Wo to begin with, and Des Bryan isn't
nearly what he used to be. And so he's out
there one on one and d said, they're going like, man,
you don't win nearly as much as you did before.
They threw it to him a lot last year, A lot,
a lot, a lot. Here's here's what I I want you
to do music, there's there's there's an assumption from some
(27:22):
in the media that des Bryant wasn't targeted enough last year, right,
that that boy they need to get And I even
heard Romo talking about, man, they really need to work
on getting the ball out to Dez Bryant. And in
comparison to some of the best wide receivers in the league,
you know, yeah, I mean Mike Evans had more targets.
(27:44):
He also had more catches, two more catches, two more targets,
had a hundred and seventy more yards receiving. Like that's substantial.
That's substantial to Marius Thomas played with clearly inferior quarter
act play. He had eight more targets, eight more targets,
(28:05):
and he had fourteen more catches. Adam Thieland had ten
more targets, but he had uh twenty two more receptions
and he had twelve hundred seventy six yards receiving as
opposed to des Brian only eight hundred and thirty eight
yards receiving. So I look at the numbers just they
(28:27):
don't lie there. Golden Tate had a better year last
year with fewer targets than Dez Bryant. Travis Kelsey was
a tight end better year last year with fewer targets.
There's dramatic drop off in his production in comparison to
his production in the past, and there isn't a drama
(28:47):
dramatic drop off in terms of targets to him is
in the past. So I just I don't know. If
I don't know, I don't believe that Dez can be
a number two or a slot guy right. I just
don't think he has the desire and maybe the aptitude
to do it. Physical ability, he should be able to
be like an Kwan Bolden as a blocker. He's incredibly strong,
(29:08):
and I do think that he's a more intelligent dude
on the football field than people would lead would lead
you to believe. But I do think there's some injury issues.
He's never been a great route runner and he kind
of is what he is, which led ivers into being
out of the NBA early, which may lead does to
being out of the NFL early. Be sure to catch
(29:30):
live editions of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at
three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the I Heart Radio app. Ray, thanks so much for
taking time with this. There's a lot I want to
get into. Um, there's some back and forth with you
and some fortunate former Celtics. I want to ask your
thoughts on playing with Lebron James, the winning championships, the Celtics,
and the heat. But let me there. There's not a
(29:52):
lot of discussion up until I think the start of
this year, when you're finally like, look, I'm out. I
don't I don't want to come back. How what was
the closest you came to coming back and playing the
past couple of years. I wasn't that close. I never
really officially talked to anybody, and you know, maybe that's
(30:12):
the team. I know there was speculation on team thinking
that they wanted to bring me in. Other than that,
there was nothing real official. I I was actually, you know,
wondering if somebody was going to like woo me to
get off the couch. Other than that, it was like
there was no like serious offers made. So I just
kind of what about my business. Um, let's let's let's
(30:36):
start more at the beginning. What I think many people
miss about you is you had a unique upbringing, right
being being a military brat. Um, you moved place to
place to place, and I was always told kind of
basketball was your refuge in that. You know, look, it's
it's hard when you're my kids have moved. It's hard
in terms of establishing relationships. How how much of being
(30:57):
a military brat, uh, you know, being born on an
Air Force base and moving around, how much of that
made you drove you to basketball because it brought a
sense of normalcy. Well, it wasn't just basketball, because when
you grew up on a military base, you you, uh,
you play everything like you have the ability to. You know,
(31:18):
we all have a youth center that all the kids
have the option to use um and through the youth center,
you sign up for basketball, baseball, soccer, football, and every sport.
You know, when one the championship game ends, you know
you crown and winner, and then the next sport may
start two weeks a week, two weeks later. So you know,
(31:40):
you would be friended or paired with your teams or
your friends on certain teams and sometimes you play against
them in different sports. So I had the availability to
play everything, and that's what I always try to teach
my kids too, especially when they're at young ages, to
allow their muscles to develop so they can um let's
I'll ultimately let the sport choose them. So you know,
(32:00):
from meeting the military, you know, sports in general was
my repues because I knew that if I competed, you
know what kid did not like on the playground, that wins,
you know. So for me, I just went out there
and you compete, and you wanted and you know, I
wanted the kid who got picked last at anything. Um,
(32:22):
Jim Calhoun is is somebody that I know helped helped
perform you as a basketball perennial All start, ten time
NBA All Star, and a surefire Hall of Famer. Um,
but he had it kind of I always was marveled
at the fact that kind of like I played Freddie
Sutton at Oaklahoma State and and he would do some
similar things where he wouldn't coach everybody the same. He
(32:42):
understood how to get more out of certain players. And
he was somebody who kind of privately challenged you, didn't
he Yeah, I mean he privately did it, and he
publicly did it, you know, nothing embarrassing, but um, you know,
in front of the guys. It's one thing to to
learn how to coach everybody, uh, singularly, but you got
(33:03):
to know how to coach the group as a whole,
and there's got to be accountability to everybody. And he
did a great job of that. So we all knew
that we were held to the same standards. But he
didn't have to be raped me or yell at me
or you know, doing anything crazy because he knew how
to motivate me. He knew I wanted to be great,
he knew I wanted to do more, and so he
(33:24):
would always know how to push my buttons in small
little ways. And ultimately that is you know, great coaching
for me because then the my teammate, he had to
yell at a little bit, and that got him and
they you know, you just used to dealing with different
personalities different ways. But when we screwed up as a team,
we all had to run. It wasn't like, you know,
he gave me special considerations because I was the lead
(33:45):
scoring the team. Yeah. I think that's the one thing
I've always I found remarkable about your career and how
it's contextualized now, is I think people remember because the
shot you hit in Miami because of all the shots
you hit in Boston. I do think that people, and
you tell me if I'm wrong. I do think people
seem to forget that you were a dominant scorer in
(34:07):
Milwaukee with a really good team in Seattle the average
with twenties six and a half a game UM and
and lead the league in scoring when you were when
you were in Seattle, like because you you you changed
your roles later in your career to win championships and
became more of a defender and shooter instead of you know,
(34:29):
an all around score sometimes it has diminished a little bit,
the all around scoring game that you had. Is that?
Is that a fair assumption? Nowadays we look at in
front of us, like you see, you know, the kids
now they talk about who the best players of all
times are because you forget who did it back in
the day, Who did it ten years ago, who did
(34:51):
it twenty years ago? And the conversation is always going
to change. And you know, when I lived in Seattle,
my last the last like already games this season, I
was averaging somewhere around twenty eight points a game, and
then I got hurt and I was in and out
a couple of games and then went down to So
I was scoring in different ways, and the kid, you know,
(35:12):
I was, You're you're playing on the West coast, so
when the game is on the West coast, people are
deep into sleep. You know, my mom was on the
East Coast and she barely finished a lot of games,
but she stayed up for most of them. So until
I get to Boston, you know, I'm not on primetime
TV Boston. All of a sudden, I've become this well
known guy. For some people, they thought I just was
(35:33):
drafted because he's like he just came out of nowhere.
But I've been in the NBA up at this point
for twelve years and so, you know, people for the
most part, forget that. So once I got to Boston,
in order for me to win, and you know, myself,
Paul and Kevin, we knew that we had scored a
bunch of points, we had made an All Star teams,
and we were making great money. But in nord for
(35:55):
us to win, we had to restructure how we thought
about the game of basketball, and we had to allow
this help. So we had to win on the team's
terms and not on the terms of us as the
individual and think about I I gotta score. I still
got to score the most points. And that's the issue
that you see with a lot of guys when they're
subforming these super teams. Are they willing to sacrifice and
take less so they can win more? Okay, so so
(36:18):
take me back to that. That's you know, it's it's
two thousand seven and uh, you came off an incredible season,
right You broke Dennis Scott's UM ten year old record
for three point field goals made in the season. Then
you have you have ankle surgery and you get you
get traded to the Boston Celtics. They acquire you to
go with Pierce and Kevin Garnett. UM. Well, when you
(36:39):
first walked into the locker room for training camp the
next year, what was it like? You know, everybody was excited.
Training camp started in a role that that year, which
was probably one of the best things for us. UM.
I think that every team should go away from training
(37:00):
camp because it gets us out of our local market
and distractions. You know, if I stayed home during training camp,
I'm gonna timply want to go home and see my
family on a day that I have offer in between
practices or whatever it may be. But we were in wrong.
We couldn't do that, so we we had to learn
each other quickly. So it was great that the NBA
had us going wrong to play against the Raptors in room.
(37:23):
So we had you know, in the time to downtime,
we were in the hotel, we were sitting outside, we
couldn't sleep, we were walking through the city like we
were doing so much. That allowed us to kind of
catch up on time laws so we can get on
the same page. And you know, so everybody knew that
they had a particular skill set that could help the team.
And uh, those days away from the distraction and being
(37:48):
and the and you know what, we come home to
the media circuits. We were great or in rome and
getting acquainted with each other. Dug out like shells. Fox
Sports Trade. The book is from Outside, my journey through
life and the game that I love. The author is
the great Ray Allen. He's kind enough to spend some
time of this year on Fox Sports Radio. Um, you
(38:10):
write about that trip and you talk about the fact
that KG didn't like you dribbling, that Kg's personality was
a little bit prickly, and that he always kind of
wanted to want up people, even you know, demanding that
that he paid tabs because he tipped better. Um what
what do you remember distinctly about trying to understand his
personality and how to fit in with that team. Well,
(38:33):
it's I think early when we got together. Um, you
gotta remember me being in the Seattle locker room and
him being Minnesota. Were basically we're the alpha dolo in
the locker room and we're the ones that you know,
speak don huddles, were the ones that you know, make
decisions or help the coach and you know, do so
many different things. So you're used to telling young people,
(38:56):
you know, okay, this is what we need to do,
and everybody we need to come play tonight, and you know,
everybody needs to bring their game. Like now you're you're
in the locker room with with with three alpha dogs
and you're still used to your same protocols and how
you were because you had young players. So now we
have to figure out how to uh adjust and get
(39:17):
along with each other where you respect each other's space.
And it was that incident that I talked about my
book where I was dribbling and he didn't want me
to dribble. You know, And it was almost like he
was like telling me you're not you know, you can't
dribble in the locker room. And I was like, well,
damn dude, I'm I've been. This is how I prepare,
you do, how you do when I do, I do.
And what I learned quickly is the compromises that have
(39:40):
to be made um in order to get to that
that same page level. You know, if you don't make
those compromises, if I sit here and we're just having
this tissing contest, and then we're in for a long
year and it it explodes. And we see that a
lot of around professional sports, because egos are aren't willing
to go away. That's what was for us. We learned
(40:02):
that it's there's no ego. We have ego to help
this team win, and you know, we do less and
that's going to help the team more. And that that
was no small little lessons to teach people and even
players in this league today, like sign up with a
team and and and you know, to bring a new
player in it's an all star, like be ready to
sacrifice more than you ever did so that player can
(40:23):
do more for you and help you win. But but Ray,
you you know like that, like, look you as a
as a grown up, as somebody who won championships. You're
speaking the absolute truth. But the other the part to
it that so many of these guys don't really understand
is like they've always been the star, especially now how
we create these AU teams where you know, I've always
(40:43):
been the guy and if I'm not the guy, I
go to a team where I am the guy. And
if I go to college, I'm only going to go
to college for a year to which I can be
the guy. And then you go to an NBA team
and uh, though you're not ready to be the guy,
you only want to go to an NBA team where
you're So it's like it sounds everyone says like I
want to win, but are you willing to sacrifice, you know,
like you did, like averaging ten less points a game
(41:04):
to win a championship. There are not a lot of
people that are willing. They're like, yeah, I want to
win a championship, but I I want to still play
my game. I want to still get my shots, to
get my touches, get my minutes. Like it sounds really good,
but the user or what Chris Paul is doing this year.
That's the exception. The norm is guys think they can
still be them, only just add their superpowers to the
(41:25):
superpowers of others. Yeah, and to your point, you know,
you look at the transfers in college, you know, from
schools because things didn't go their way. It's like the
parents are letting their kids off the hook. And that's
where starting because there's this entitlement. The kids think that
the coach didn't play me enough, or I just didn't
(41:46):
like the way things win, so I want to transfer.
And that behavior starts with the parents at home, and
then it grows and it continues all the way if
that kid is fortunate enough to make it to the NBA.
But the one thing I will say is, yeah, you're right,
but if you're not willing to sacrifice, then you'll never
win anything. That's what winning is all about. Winning is
(42:07):
your ability to be a part of a team and
win on the team's terms. Like, yeah, you you'll make
the All Star team and yeah you'll score points. But
what at the end of the day do you want
Do you want to retire from the game of basketball
and never have felt what it feels like to hoist
that trophy up because every player that's played in in
any sport watches every championship game in every sport and
(42:31):
you admire, you, envy you, you you you're jealous of
that team that's winning because you you know, you want
that feeling. But you have to get out of your
own way, like you have to use your talent for
the good of the team and not for the good
of your individual skill set. Like it's not about winning
the championship, is not about making an all star team.
(42:52):
It's not about making more money. It's about you doing
your job for that particular team. And then when you win,
then you have that discussion. But while you're there, you
have to figure out what you need to help that
team out. And if you can do that, then you
put yourself on course on track to win. But for
the most part, you'll you'll see why guys ultimately don't
win because they're not willing to sacrifice. Um why did
(43:15):
it ends so poorly with you and Rondo and and
and that crew? Um? Well, Doug, I I signed a
contract with another team once I knew, um, you know,
as I was having conversations with the organization and they
weren't you know, you know, moving in the direction that
(43:38):
I had hoped that we will move in and to
be successful. Then it was time for me to move on.
And I knew it, and um, you know, I had
a conversation you know with uh, with Danny Ainge, and
I said, you know, there's certain things that you know,
we need to improve on, you know, around our offense,
you know specifically, and uh, you know, he was like,
(43:58):
I I agree with you. I wish I could disagree
with you, but I agree with you, and I'll take it,
you know, back to the coach and see what he says.
And then what came back was I need Just like
I just said, it worked against me. He said, you
need to do what we need you to do as
a team if you want to be a part of this.
If not, that you need to move on. So that
was my Those were my marching papers because at the
(44:21):
end of the day, if you're not gonna I want
to win two, but I see the things that we
need to improve on, and if we're not, if you're
not gonna address those so we can prove on them,
and then you know, you've You've made my decision for me,
right because because the way in which it's it's painted.
It's painted that you chose to leave a championship team.
But but the truth is that you guys were aging.
(44:42):
They had they had started to bring you off the bench,
they had changed your role and um and and so
so it's it's not like you guys had just come
off a championship and you decided to leave and go
to the Heat. There was a lot of other kind
of um ancillary issues that went with the decision, more
so than just I want to leave this team and
I'll go to a competitive competing team. Fair. No, I'm
(45:04):
I'm I'm New England through and through. You know I
still live in Connecticut. You know that was my home.
I didn't want to go anywhere, and I think that
playing against me. So when it came time to negotiate contract,
I was the guy that they left the least amount for.
So by the time I get ready to go or
to negotiate, you know, there's there's little to no room
(45:26):
wiggle room whatsoever. So once you know, based on all
the conversations about the future team and then contractually you
the writing is on the wall. Okay, so my tenure
is up as the Boston Celtics time for me to
move on. So once I move on, now I have
to figure out where I'm moving on to. That's how
the process worked. So my choices were the Clippers, the
(45:50):
Miami Heat, MINNESOTAA Wolves, in the Memphis Grizzlies. Those are
the four teams that we're interested in my services. In
that same breath, the Clippers then just signed Jamal Crawford,
so then I had I was down to three and
this is how fast free agency works. On June one,
team started contacting you and telling you, hey, we love
(46:10):
to have you come in and visit. We'd love to
have you on our team. And that's what we can do. Now.
By June July three, you can start signing contract. So
as guys are signing contract, I got three teams now
that are telling me they're interested in me. That I
have to figure out, you know, what's going to be
the best situation for me. So that's how you ultimately
end up deciding because free agent happened so fast, and
(46:31):
once ties were basically severed between the team that I
was hoping that I was going to stay with, and
you can figure what's the best option forward, So you
play with Miami Heat with Miami heat and with Lebron James,
what was what's the give me the difference in locker
room tone, in leadership style, in you know the composition
(46:53):
the Big Three? How how was it in Miami as
opposed to how it was in Boston? Well, I mean
you see the same similarities and and you know, routines
and and havings, guys getting in and doing what they
need to do with the consistencies. Um, the as long
as we were in Boston, we had a lot more
(47:17):
prosper uh. So, um, I think I think it was
tougher for spoilstra in um in Miami because you've got
Mike Miller, like how to play at all those guys
you know when you know there's no point uh to
(47:41):
the last couple of years. Um. So you see, those
are all the same similarities between you know, all those
you know, both teams that I played on, and uh,
you know, same thing, just small little uh philosophical differences
defensively different words, but you know, still the same stuff. Uh.
The shot you hit against the Spurs, I mean, like again,
(48:02):
like there's a lot of things you accomplished. I mean,
you you won a gold medal. You know, you won
two NBA championships with you know, one with the Boston Celtics,
one of the two most iconic franchises in the sport.
But you have one of arguably the top ten moments
maybe in the history of the NBA. UM. I know
(48:24):
you practiced that shot probably ten thousand times, and that
you are somebody who people emulate in that you would
lay on the floor and get up and run back
to the three point line. You knew exactly where you're
supposed to be. But what do you what are your
recollections of that shot? Game six NBA Finals? My recollection
(48:44):
is really just I thank god that you know, I'm
on the right side of this whole conversation as opposed
that we say or talk about how I didn't make it,
And you know, my life has been held since then,
and I can't go anywhere, my kids can't go any where.
I'm glad I'm not having that conversation, of course, But
what I do think about is the reason that I'm
(49:06):
we're not having that conversations because I was afraid of that,
you know, my whole career. You know, once I started
playing deep in the playoffs, I was sold, like afraid
of being a guy that let his team down and
the guy that people are talking about, you know, the
reason why the team lost, you know, turning the ball
over mission a free throw. So I We're going to
(49:29):
the gym, you know, and just kind of do everything
possible to to get my body prepared. Like I was obsessive,
you know. I came to and the lifting my legs.
I need to have the list of my legs and
any given time, I need to make sure that I
pushed my body into different places, you know, so I
(49:49):
can rely on it. You know, the fourth quarter is
winning winning time, and like I put myself up against
any anybody in the fourth quarter because I knew that
my body was gonna stand up, you know, even when
everybody else was getting tired. The game war on there,
the fatigue was setting in, but I was training myself
for those fourth quarter moments. All the running I've done,
you know, whenever I traveled throughout the year, I would
(50:11):
you know, leave the hotel, go to the health club,
or run in the cities. When I got in, I
would bring my bike with me at times and I'd
drive through the city. Like I always believed I was
doing things that other people weren't doing because when that
time came in the fourth quarter, I was gonna be
able to stand up and and endure longer than everybody
else was going to be able to. Uh last thing. Um,
(50:36):
Michael or Lebron. You obviously played against Michael, you played
with Lebron, And I know they're different, and I know
it's a it's an impossible it's it's an impossible comparison
to those of us who know and love ball because
they're two completely different players. But it's still the debate
that maybe only you can settle Michael or Lebron pick one. Yeah, yeah,
(50:58):
because I certainly has in the uh the decades, uh
and and played against most of them. Um, what what
I will say is the generations. You know, I said
this a little earlier, like you know, we're nostalgic about
the people that helped grow us up, and you know,
now the kids are growing up, and you know, there's
(51:19):
questions like how good was Michael Jordan's Like you know,
fifteen years ago, that was never a question because these
people that are growing up understood and they've seen him
real time. You know, they've seen him in games and
was just highlights. Everybody picked out the good stuff. But
you can see highlighting this stuff all the time. Uh,
Lebron is he'll go down as you know, the most
(51:40):
dominant player in his generation. But what I've seen, you know,
I to I face value. You know, Lebron is an
incredible player to stop. He's dominant. But what I've seen
in MJ was MJ did not have a weakness at all.
Like all the players that played against him, we tried
to do whatever we can and the Nicks tried to
(52:00):
beat him up. Uh, you try to keep the ball
out of his hand a lot of times, but whenever
he got it, it was incredible, what the things that
he could do with it. And you know, I you
know me personally, you know I I say MJ is
is the best of all times. Um. And you know
the game has changed. It's not about statistics, UM, It's
just about the when you look at the player, what
(52:23):
they are capable of doing on the floor, you know,
the from the three point line to mid range to
post up two three throws to the defensive end, like
you just you kind of throw all that into play.
And you know, I think you know MJ was hands down, uh,
leaps above everybody else. In the league, Ray Alan, The
new book is My Journey through life and the game
(52:45):
that I love. It's available on Amazon. One of the
all time grades when two NBA championships of Gold Medal
and the surefire Hall of Famer Ray I'm I'm so
happy that you found happiness in retirement and then you're
letting other people read about your your basketball life and
your journey. Thanks for jo into some Fox Sports Radio, Doug,
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on
This is the best of the Doug Gottlieb Show on
Fox Sports Radio. Boom, What Up America. Doug Gottlieb Show,
Fox Sports Radio coming to you daily live from sunny
southern California. Speaking of Southern California, Man, am I thrilled
(00:21):
to be on live starting tomorrow in San Diego, America's
finest city, ninety seven point three FM The Machine. Um,
it's pretty cool, right So now, Phoenix, Seattle, Vegas, San Diego,
we are in. We are in circling in snaring the
(00:42):
entire West coast here. Uh, don't worry, East Coast. We
still were thinking of you in the Southeast and the Midwest.
We got your back. And if you're listening to us
on any of our terrestrial radio Phillis and I get
a lot of people like, what is to restaural radio
that's like your regular radio. We're on Sirius sex M
channel eighty three the first two hours at least. We'll
try and get that third. Our are on in the
very near term, near term. We can also download the
(01:04):
I Heart Radio app, listen to us anywhere, or listen
to us digitally Fox Sports Radio dot Com. We've got
podcasts We've got everything you want, but uh fired up
to be on in San Diego. And oh yeah, by
the way, music this part. You don't know you boys
thrown out the first pitch of the Padres game tomorrow night.
Look at that. So what's interesting about that? Have have
you guys ever been involved been involved with anybody thrown
(01:26):
at the first pitch? I okay, so I've done this
once before actually with the Angels, um and um uh.
It's like the first time you do, it's kind of
nerve wrack because everybody's like, dude, you don't want to
you don't want to go fitti cent right. You don't
want to throw something and look like you've never played baseball.
The best part about this is I have a nine
year old son and I pitched to his team. Although
(01:48):
I did is a little kid named Mason. Sorry Mason.
I went high and tight get him right in the
middle of the back Monday afternoon at batting practice. And
he's the one kid who's been stepping in the bucket
a little bit, a little bit scared of the ball,
and I was like, no, no, you're fine, And then
you know, they all want me to heat it up,
throw a little bit harder and one got away from me.
(02:09):
Might might you know I have I have some late
movement and a late movie turned away from the ball,
and I mean to hit him square in the back.
Sorry Mason, but I I have thrown off the bump
probably seven or eight times at Hayes's practice, granted to
a shorter, shorter mound. But um, there'll be some heat
(02:29):
coming out, they'll, I'll, I'll probably I won't be throwing
Uncle Charlie, but I'll be throwing some heat tomorrow as
the Padres take on the Giants in San Diego. So
that'll be a ton of fun. And I don't think,
I hope. Well, last time it was a little bit inside.
I didn't airmail it. I think this time I expect
to throw a strike anyway. Fired up tonight. It's nice
(02:51):
last night of the NBA season, right, isn't there? Right?
Believe so last night of the NBA season, which means
we'll have the entire playoff picture. You hear Dan Buyer
with our updates when bringing dam Buyer later on, he'll
he'll give us kind of the rundown of what exactly
is at stake The Oklahoma City thunder in the playoffs,
and of course they can climb in terms of securing
(03:12):
their playoffs seed, make it a higher one with a win.
I think it's tonight right against Memphi against Memphis Grizzlies.
So yeah, I am, I am correct, right, okay, And
if you've seen who the Memphis Grizzlies are starting, you
feel pretty good about it. Additionally, Russell Westbrook is like
nineteen rebounds away from sixteen excuse me, sixteen rebounds away
(03:36):
from averaging a triple double, which, of course, if you've
been watching recently, there have been some rebounds which you're like,
all right, they kind of wanted him to get those boards.
Here's Russell Westbrook on some of the discussion regarding his
stats at rebounds. If people could get twenty rebounds every night,
(03:58):
they were people your rebounds, they were people talking or
say whatever you we need to say they should try
and doing to see how hard on everybody wants to
be talking. And you know, I'm tired of him the
same old rebound miss still in rebound. Yeah, okay, I mean, like, look,
I'm there's there's part of me which which agrees with him,
(04:20):
and part of which me with which disagrees to them.
I mean, look at this as he as he would
even tell you the stats don't lie, right, alright, but
the stats don't lie. He does have a ton of
double digit rebound games since the middle of February. There
was a good there was a good stretch of games
there where he wasn't in February in January. But by
(04:42):
and large, he's a really good rebounding guard. Now, I
don't want my guards rebounding. I just don't want, especially
my point guard, a guy with his speed. I think
one of the big flaws is that Russell Westbrook rebounds.
That's a huge mistake. See what's what's faster than the drip?
John Ramos? If you you coach, you soccer, but the
(05:03):
the the emphasis in soccer and in basketball is the same, right,
that a pass is faster than the dribblers and none. Yes,
And so one of the big issues that I have
with Billy Donovan's coaching is why the hell is Russell
Westbrook under they're getting boards? To begin with, he should
be getting deep outlet passes. He should be between the
(05:26):
top of the key and mid court. And if he
did so, can you imagine their fast break? He's already
the best athlete in the league. It's not close the
best athlete in the league. But because he's catching the
ball at that close, that close to the basket, he
has to beat four, sometimes five guys down the floor,
(05:48):
and that hurts their transition game, that hurts his own
field goal percentage. Frankly, I think that creates if you
were assists for him. So, while Russell Westbrook is right,
it is it is hard to get ten rebounds. I
never got time rebounds ten rebounds in the game. I
don't think ever. But it's also not my job to
get rebounds. It's just not ain't my job. And um,
(06:12):
I love that he's a versatile player. I love how
competitive he is, but I would point out it ain't
his job. You're doing somebody else's job. Now your job.
That doesn't mean you don't ever rebound. End of game.
Everybody rebounds, you get caught underneath switching. Got a big guy,
you gotta box out. But honestly, when you box out,
you don't necessarily have to rebound. Just make sure your
(06:34):
guy doesn't get the basketball. Long caraming rebounds you should
get it, you should collect it. But by and large,
and this is a generalization that ain't your job. And
so part of Russell Westbrook doing somebody else's job and
no one calling him on it is part of the problem.
And here's the other thing. Either Russell Westbrook is the
(06:56):
most dynamic, the most diverse player in terms of skill
set that we have seen since Oscar robertson or or
well there's this other or or these are stats on steroids,
that's all they are. And it feels to me more
like the latter than the former. I bring this up
(07:20):
quite often because it's an easy it's a simple way
to make my explanation. Um, you go to passing yards
for NFL quarterbacks and last year was a little bit
of an exception because we had so many injuries, right, uh,
and but the numbers were generally down in terms of
four thousand yards pastors. Last year there was only oh,
(07:41):
I say emphasize only eight. That's because if you look
in some previous years there were more than eight. You
look at two thousand sixteen and you had thirteen four
thousand yard pastors. Thirteen four thousand yard pastors. Go back
fifteen years to two thousand and two and you had four, right,
(08:06):
you had four, And go to two thousand three. Look
at the fact that the stats have in fact changed,
Right in two thousand two, you had four. In two
thousand three you had to four thousand yard pastors just too,
just two and those two were Peyton Manning and Trent
(08:30):
Green Tom Brady, and two thousand three only through four
hundred yards. It's pretty pretty amazing, right, how the NFL
has changed. It started to transform itself in two thousand
four when we had four a sume five four thousand
yard passers. But you go all the way to two
thousand sixteen and we had thirteen two thousand yard passers
(08:56):
and Derek Carr was fourteen. And the only reason Derek Carr,
if you remember this is not last year, it's the
previous year, it didn't throw for four thousand yards. He
got hurt. He missed the last two games. So either
we have way better passers than we've ever had, or
if you look at the attempts, guys are attempting six hundred,
(09:19):
six hundred plus passing attempts. In two thousand sixteen, we
had five players attempt six attempt to pass six hundred times.
You go back to those stats and remember two thousand three,
the most passes attempt him were five hundred seventy by
Brad Johnson, paid Manning five sixty six. With a hundred
(09:42):
more pass attempts comes, you know, fifty more completions, or
if it's in this case, it's Paid Manning sixty seven
more completions, sixty seven more completions. When you're completing them,
even at five six yards a pop, you're gonna get
more yards you're going it's in other words, in the NFL,
(10:03):
how we view stats have changed because of the number
of plays, the number of possessions, the number of attempts.
The exact same thing has happened in the NBA. And
if you're not paying attention to that, and you're simply
falling in love with Russell Westbrook because of the volume
of points, the volume of assists, you're missing out on.
(10:24):
He dribbles, he handles the ball, more, he shoots the ball, more,
he passes at the last second to make an assist. More,
and with more and more and more becomes more stats.
And just like stats in um August and September in
Major League Baseball are a little bit hollow because of
the September collups. Just like stats against the Memphis Grizzlies
(10:47):
and other tanking teams are a little bit hollow because
you're playing against G League players in games in which
they're trying to lose. The same can be said for
Russell Westbrook. I'm not saying he's not an incredible player,
but he shouldn't even be rebounding to begin with. He
should be triggering their break, getting the past, get the
outlet pass. And he's not better than all of the
(11:07):
other guards that we've seen. He simply has a greater
volume of touches he handles. Them are more rebounds the
ball more, there's more shots to rebound, more possessions, more passes,
more shots more overall ball dominance, which they call use
high usage rate in the n b A and you
kind of create this fictitious narrative that somehow he's statistically
(11:27):
better than anybody over the past forty years in the NBA,
and that's not accurate. It doesn't mean he's not a
great player, a great a great competitor. It just means
don't use stats as your argument, because you will lose
based upon the fact the stats are skewed because of
how the game is played. Be sure to catch live
editions of the Doug gott Leaps Show weekdays at three
(11:48):
pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
I Heart Radio app. Chris Mannix is an NBA insider
for years for Yahoo Sports. Make sure you check out
his new show Sundays at new Eastern time alongside NBA
champion and All Star Karen Butler here on Fox Sports Radio, Max,
Let's let's start with the debacle with the Warriors getting
(12:11):
blown out by the Jazz. And I know they still
don't have staff and they haven't been playing all of
their starters starters minutes, but it is getting to be
a little bit kind of is it in time to
be nervous a little bit about the Warriors in the playoffs? Yeah,
I don't know what to make it, but really I
will say that it's it's it's fortunate that the most
(12:34):
likely scenario is that they don't play Oklahoma City in
the first round, because I think that would have been
the series that could have been enormously problematic if they're
playing this way and they're playing without Steph Curry, not
just because of the obvious matchup the Quinn Cook Russell Westbrook,
but Kevin Durant would have to shoulder a bigger load offensively.
(12:55):
With Curry out going back to Oklahoma City, what's his
mental mindset in and that type of setting the intensity
of Oklahoma City, which has to be playing with kind
of a palpable desperation right now, knowing what's at stake
for maybe the future of this team. Um, I think
they can right the ship in the first round with
another matchup in front of them, But if they were
(13:17):
playing Oklahoma seeing that first round, I would have real
concerned about their ability to win that series. What's your
best guests? I when Steff returns, well, I think second round.
And this is a lot of talking to people around
that team and guess work on that team, and you know,
understanding stuff a little bit. You know, they're they're they're
(13:38):
optimistic that that second round is doable. Now, what what
does he look like when he comes back? I mean
that remains to be seen. I mean it's like you know,
when when people say you see a timeline on this stuff,
they assumed that that means when a guy is going
to be out in the court looking like his former self.
That's that's not the case at all, as you know.
I mean, it's it's it's when the guy can resume
(13:58):
basketball activities. From there, it's all about how his body
responds to practice and recovery, so we'll see what he
looks like. But I think the second round is a
realistic timeline for step. All right, let's get to how
the playoffs appeared to be lining up. What what do
the what do the Rockets want to have happened tonight? What? What?
Who wins that benefits the Rockets the most? You know,
(14:20):
I'd rather play Denver Um. You know, I know the
Nuggets are surging at the moment, and your kids is
a problem, But you know that is an abysmal defensive team.
So you're you're you're asking a team that doesn't defend
and try to outscore a team that is a great
scoring team. Mike D'Antoni coach team. I just don't see
(14:40):
if the Timberwolves are you know, with Butler back, it's
this is way too high as ceiling there now. Now
they could get broomed out just as easily as the
uh as the Nuggets could. But when you're Houston, you're
probably looking at the least talented team, the least experienced team,
maybe the lesser coach team in that situation on paper, Um,
you know that's the Denver Nuggets. Nuggets. I wouldn't surprise
(15:03):
if they got in because I would imagine there are
some jobs on the line in a game like like tonight.
But um, I'd rather play them in the first round
for I was Houston. Chris Mannox joining us from Yahoo
Sports and Fox Sports Radio. Check out his show on
weekends on Sunday at twelve o'clock Eastern time on Fox
Sports Radio. Um, let's go to the East. The Calves
(15:26):
struggled and struggled and struggled, and then Lebron over the
last month has looked like vintage Lebron for the most part,
especially at the offensive end. People haven't paid attention to
the fact that he does as you have. You point
out taking some defensive possessions off and there are there
are you know, half the teams the league are trying
to lose. That said, I I'm just struggling to find
another team to lock into. Wizards look better last night,
(15:47):
but they haven't consistently looked better since John Wall's return.
If not the Calves, then who Yeah. I'm still buying
into the Raptors and have been for a while. Um,
when they struggled over the last month or so when
they had that stretch games where they went like three
and four or four and five, whatever it was. M
(16:08):
the problems they were dealing with were or defensive problems,
and defense is a lot a lot easier for the Raptors,
who have traditionally been a top flight defensive team, to
clean up if they were having offensive issues. If it
was you know, we're going back into Marja Rosen and
Kyle Lowry and we're playing you know, alternative shot there,
(16:30):
I would have said that that's a team to be
really concerned with, because we know that that type of
offensive system fails in the playoffs. That they weren't dealing
with that spur in that stretch, it was given up
a whole bunch of points. I think the defense, you know,
the first couple of rounds, is gonna be easier for
them to clean up than some offensive issues we're gonna
be and and look, if you look in at Cleveland.
One one big issue I have is kind of their
(16:50):
decision to effectively say we're gonna try to outscore you
in the playoffs, but by putting Jeff Green and Kevin
Love together on the front line, they're more or less
saying screw it. You know, we're gonna try to win
one ten every single night. I canber a team that
did that, at least not at a really high level.
Now it's it's if they were in the Western conferences,
(17:12):
say wow, they might get beat in the first round.
Not the case in the East. But you just if
you're just gonna try to outscore teams in the postseason,
it just very rarely works, and I can't see it
working this time around, no matter how great Lebron is. Um.
You you talked a little bit about Oklahoma City, and
I look at Russell Westbrook and look the averaging a
(17:33):
triple double for a second straight year, which is a
distinct possibility, especially against the Grizzlies. All he needs a sixteen.
Been patting those stats a little bit, Um, It's an
amazing feat. But how much of it is Russell Westbrook
being awesome and how much of it is Look, stats
are skewed because there's such a much higher volume of
possessions considering the way in which basketball has played. I mean,
(17:56):
I hate to the hedge, it is a little bit
of both. I mean, down the stretch, as you said,
some of the stat padding that that he does both
at the end of games at the end of the season. Um,
you know that plays a pretty significant role. But man,
he you know, he's awesome, Like he really is awesome
out there on the floor. The problem Westbrook has is that,
(18:17):
you know, this team hasn't really improved despite all the
the the upgrades they've made this past uh, this this
past offseason. There they're gonna finish with right around the
same number of wins and and kind of the same
type of team and entered the postseason, which you know
I've said for a while now, Doug, this is the
most important postseason of Russell Westbrook's career. It's more important
(18:38):
than what happened in twelve. It's more important than what
happened a couple of years ago against Golden State. If
they flame out in the first round, the chances that
Paul George Walks ratchets up exponentially, and then what is
Oklahoma City for the next five years the prime of
Russell's career. There probably a team that claused their way
into the playoffs, maybe squeeze it the second round every year.
(18:59):
If they win a couple of rounds, Paul George might
be more likely to stay and all of a sudden,
your team it's adding on to a potential championship contender
every single year. So I can't imagine mistakes for any
player this postseason being higher than what they are for
Russell Westbrook. Last night, I thought it was Donovan Mitchell
wearing a sweatshirt that I think Adidas Maaye form is
brilliant about, you know, the definition of what a rookie is.
(19:23):
And look, I've been on I don't know, it's a
little bit of a bandwagon all years saying I think
Ben Simmons has had the better year, is the better
all around player, but he's a red shirt rookie, and
I don't know, there is no uh first year Player
of the Year award or Newcomer of the Year award
like there is in some college basketball conference. Instead, it's
(19:43):
all called rookie year, and Blake Griffin is one it
even though he read shirted with injury his first year.
Where do you come down on on the debate, Well,
it's one of those debates that that that doesn't really
consume a lot of brain space for me, Like it's
it's the NBA rule enough kind of always kind of
nodded my head at it. I will say this what
(20:04):
Mitchell said about him, And you know Mitchell better than
I do. I spent the time with him a couple
of weeks ago and did a podcast with him and
hung out with him for a couple of days. He's
a really intelligent kid, and like one of the things
he said was that I found interesting, uh the other
night was he made the comparison to a student taking
an exam on June one and having a few weeks
to study, versus an entire season to study for which
(20:26):
one would be better prepared for that exam. He's an example,
of course, Ben Simmons having a whole year off to
prepare for this season. And it makes a valid point.
I mean, Ben C's Ben Simmons was more prepared for
this season in every possible way that Donovan Mitchell was.
So can he really be called a rookie? I mean
I I at this point, I'd be okay with the
(20:46):
NBA changing the rule and saying it's got to be
your first year in the league. Now, if you go overseas,
you do what Dario Sarak did, you can still be
considered a rookie. But if you're on NBA roster regardless
of the amount of minutes you play, aid uh, you
should that should be considered your Rookie of the Year
for award purposes, yes, but based upon how like you,
(21:07):
you'd have to go and reset the award and based
on how the how it is the term now it
doesn't matter right, So now it should be Ben Simmons,
even if you feel like Donovan Mitchell is the only
true rookie is. Look, I'm a voter and I'm gonna
vote for Ben Simmons for the next couple of days.
I when I went out to Utah, one of the
things the reasons I went there, Doug, was because not
(21:29):
every voter I think, knows what they're talking about. And
there have been some some biblically bad takes on Donovan
Mitchell the last couple of months, like, you know, like
he hasn't done it all season long. Will you know
that's dumb? Well, it's it's Rudy Gobert that's spearheaded this
effort well or this last you know, two months of play. Well,
that's true, but Gobert to the score Mitchell does. Um.
I just didn't think people were understanding really the type
(21:52):
of season now they are now, But over the last
couple of weeks, I don't think people were understanding the
type of season Mitchell was having. Um. But there's no
question in my mind. It was a tough debate for
a while. But you know, Ben Simmons, for all he's done,
plus what he's done the last couple of weeks with
Joel em beat out, I think that's really cemented his place. Um.
Last thing, how big a buyer are you into the
(22:12):
seventies six ers? I'm not because I think if it's
if it's Miami they play in the first round, I
think they get beat Um not can gebe I think
to do because I think when you give a great
coach one team to focus on in the playoffs, Um,
they're gonna exploit your weaknesses. And for all of Ben
simmons greatness, he has one enormous weakness mark El folks
(22:35):
huge weakness. I mean, they've got a limited number of
perimeter players out there, and if Joel embiad Is is
limited or not able to play, you know, certain games. Um,
I think that's that that's gonna be a probably Miami.
You know, they just play hard man. I mean they
play hard every single night. They're physical, they're less talents
that in Philadelphia. But the game slows down a lot
in the playoffs and it comes down to offensive execution
(22:57):
the playoffs. I think Miami can execute better offense when
Philly is right now and those weaknesses the seven sixers
are gonna get exploited. Chris Manx from Yahoo Sports and
Fox Sports Trader do. This is gonna be awesome. Just
keep your cell phone on because you want to have
you on as often as possible now that you're under
our wing. UM any any time you want to pop
on UM, we'd love to have you on. The meantime,
(23:18):
keep up the great work and we'll hear you on Sunday.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
Jerry Jones can even do the it's not you, It's
me think. Look, this is not we don't think any
less of you as a player. This is about salary
(23:38):
structure and where you're fitting our salary cap. And this
is our problem, not your problem, but your problem. But
but our problem becomes your problem because we gotta fit
you in our salary slot and scale I tend to agree,
And um I also I don't love the idea that
people have found out that there's a meeting. Who has
(23:59):
to do that anymore? Who has to set up a
meeting like this doesn't have to be a showdown at
the Okay Corral? Like just getting your car and go
over to DES's house, Daz's come in like ans like,
hey man, don't you just come into the come and
text and come into the facility, because now it feels
like it's for show and that I don't think that
always ends. That usually doesn't end that well, because now
(24:22):
it gives Dez a chance to kind of lead up
and get super emotional and super you know, instead you
just you want to have a conversation. Here's where we are,
knowing where we are, where are you mentally? Are you
willing to pay take a pay cut? Do you really
want to leave Dallas? Do you really want to leave Dallas?
(24:44):
That's what this kind of comes down to for me,
and um I just I don't see any way in
which he walks out of that meeting as a cowboy
with his salary intact or a salary with making nearly
the money that he was making before he walked in.
(25:07):
It's actually perfect for this uh this read the road
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Ryan Music, So let's say does in fact won't take
(25:30):
a pay cut, so he ends up getting cut by
the Cowboys? Is Dez one of those players that you
think will go the way of he's just washed up
and we will never see the desk that we once saw,
or will he take that as motivation and totally reassess
who he is as a player with whatever new team
he signs with, and he's back to being like a
(25:51):
top five receiver in the game for the next two
or three seasons. Well, I don't think he's ever going
to be a top five I just I don't think.
It's not like he's he has some like secret dummyberry
juice that he's gonna drink and start bouncing off the
walls the way he used to um. Like, Look, do
I think he could change his body and change his
game some and evolved. Yeah, I kind of you know
(26:13):
who you know who? Des reminds me of. Um, there's
there's an Iverson kind of quotient. There's an Iverson comp
to him, right, like Iverson just he couldn't. He tried
that one year. He tried to pass the ball more
on average, like seven assists a game or something even more.
But he could just never be anything more than who
(26:35):
he was, Like what Larry Fitzgerald has done, the transformation
in his game, there's a reason most guys haven't been
able to do that. It's just a hard mentally, you're
just hardwired. Des Brian has been hard wired to when
I'm out wide, if I got one on one, throw
it up, I'll go get it. And now you have
a quarterback who's not They didn't come up together. There's
(26:57):
not the bond. I don't think he's as good as
Tony rom Wo to begin with, and Des Bryan isn't
nearly what he used to be. And so he's out
there one on one and d said, they're going like, man,
you don't win nearly as much as you did before.
They threw it to him a lot last year, A lot,
a lot, a lot. Here's here's what I I want you
to do music, there's there's there's an assumption from some
(27:22):
in the media that des Bryant wasn't targeted enough last year, right,
that that boy they need to get And I even
heard Romo talking about, man, they really need to work
on getting the ball out to Dez Bryant. And in
comparison to some of the best wide receivers in the league,
you know, yeah, I mean Mike Evans had more targets.
(27:44):
He also had more catches, two more catches, two more targets,
had a hundred and seventy more yards receiving. Like that's substantial.
That's substantial to Marius Thomas played with clearly inferior quarter
act play. He had eight more targets, eight more targets,
(28:05):
and he had fourteen more catches. Adam Thieland had ten
more targets, but he had uh twenty two more receptions
and he had twelve hundred seventy six yards receiving as
opposed to des Brian only eight hundred and thirty eight
yards receiving. So I look at the numbers just they
(28:27):
don't lie there. Golden Tate had a better year last
year with fewer targets than Dez Bryant. Travis Kelsey was
a tight end better year last year with fewer targets.
There's dramatic drop off in his production in comparison to
his production in the past, and there isn't a drama
(28:47):
dramatic drop off in terms of targets to him is
in the past. So I just I don't know. If
I don't know, I don't believe that Dez can be
a number two or a slot guy right. I just
don't think he has the desire and maybe the aptitude
to do it. Physical ability, he should be able to
be like an Kwan Bolden as a blocker. He's incredibly strong,
(29:08):
and I do think that he's a more intelligent dude
on the football field than people would lead would lead
you to believe. But I do think there's some injury issues.
He's never been a great route runner and he kind
of is what he is, which led ivers into being
out of the NBA early, which may lead does to
being out of the NFL early. Be sure to catch
(29:30):
live editions of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at
three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the I Heart Radio app. Ray, thanks so much for
taking time with this. There's a lot I want to
get into. Um, there's some back and forth with you
and some fortunate former Celtics. I want to ask your
thoughts on playing with Lebron James, the winning championships, the Celtics,
and the heat. But let me there. There's not a
(29:52):
lot of discussion up until I think the start of
this year, when you're finally like, look, I'm out. I
don't I don't want to come back. How what was
the closest you came to coming back and playing the
past couple of years. I wasn't that close. I never
really officially talked to anybody, and you know, maybe that's
(30:12):
the team. I know there was speculation on team thinking
that they wanted to bring me in. Other than that,
there was nothing real official. I I was actually, you know,
wondering if somebody was going to like woo me to
get off the couch. Other than that, it was like
there was no like serious offers made. So I just
kind of what about my business. Um, let's let's let's
(30:36):
start more at the beginning. What I think many people
miss about you is you had a unique upbringing, right
being being a military brat. Um, you moved place to
place to place, and I was always told kind of
basketball was your refuge in that. You know, look, it's
it's hard when you're my kids have moved. It's hard
in terms of establishing relationships. How how much of being
(30:57):
a military brat, uh, you know, being born on an
Air Force base and moving around, how much of that
made you drove you to basketball because it brought a
sense of normalcy. Well, it wasn't just basketball, because when
you grew up on a military base, you you, uh,
you play everything like you have the ability to. You know,
(31:18):
we all have a youth center that all the kids
have the option to use um and through the youth center,
you sign up for basketball, baseball, soccer, football, and every sport.
You know, when one the championship game ends, you know
you crown and winner, and then the next sport may
start two weeks a week, two weeks later. So you know,
(31:40):
you would be friended or paired with your teams or
your friends on certain teams and sometimes you play against
them in different sports. So I had the availability to
play everything, and that's what I always try to teach
my kids too, especially when they're at young ages, to
allow their muscles to develop so they can um let's
I'll ultimately let the sport choose them. So you know,
(32:00):
from meeting the military, you know, sports in general was
my repues because I knew that if I competed, you
know what kid did not like on the playground, that wins,
you know. So for me, I just went out there
and you compete, and you wanted and you know, I
wanted the kid who got picked last at anything. Um,
(32:22):
Jim Calhoun is is somebody that I know helped helped
perform you as a basketball perennial All start, ten time
NBA All Star, and a surefire Hall of Famer. Um,
but he had it kind of I always was marveled
at the fact that kind of like I played Freddie
Sutton at Oaklahoma State and and he would do some
similar things where he wouldn't coach everybody the same. He
(32:42):
understood how to get more out of certain players. And
he was somebody who kind of privately challenged you, didn't
he Yeah, I mean he privately did it, and he
publicly did it, you know, nothing embarrassing, but um, you know,
in front of the guys. It's one thing to to
learn how to coach everybody, uh, singularly, but you got
(33:03):
to know how to coach the group as a whole,
and there's got to be accountability to everybody. And he
did a great job of that. So we all knew
that we were held to the same standards. But he
didn't have to be raped me or yell at me
or you know, doing anything crazy because he knew how
to motivate me. He knew I wanted to be great,
he knew I wanted to do more, and so he
(33:24):
would always know how to push my buttons in small
little ways. And ultimately that is you know, great coaching
for me because then the my teammate, he had to
yell at a little bit, and that got him and
they you know, you just used to dealing with different
personalities different ways. But when we screwed up as a team,
we all had to run. It wasn't like, you know,
he gave me special considerations because I was the lead
(33:45):
scoring the team. Yeah. I think that's the one thing
I've always I found remarkable about your career and how
it's contextualized now, is I think people remember because the
shot you hit in Miami because of all the shots
you hit in Boston. I do think that people, and
you tell me if I'm wrong. I do think people
seem to forget that you were a dominant scorer in
(34:07):
Milwaukee with a really good team in Seattle the average
with twenties six and a half a game UM and
and lead the league in scoring when you were when
you were in Seattle, like because you you you changed
your roles later in your career to win championships and
became more of a defender and shooter instead of you know,
(34:29):
an all around score sometimes it has diminished a little bit,
the all around scoring game that you had. Is that?
Is that a fair assumption? Nowadays we look at in
front of us, like you see, you know, the kids
now they talk about who the best players of all
times are because you forget who did it back in
the day, Who did it ten years ago, who did
(34:51):
it twenty years ago? And the conversation is always going
to change. And you know, when I lived in Seattle,
my last the last like already games this season, I
was averaging somewhere around twenty eight points a game, and
then I got hurt and I was in and out
a couple of games and then went down to So
I was scoring in different ways, and the kid, you know,
(35:12):
I was, You're you're playing on the West coast, so
when the game is on the West coast, people are
deep into sleep. You know, my mom was on the
East Coast and she barely finished a lot of games,
but she stayed up for most of them. So until
I get to Boston, you know, I'm not on primetime
TV Boston. All of a sudden, I've become this well
known guy. For some people, they thought I just was
(35:33):
drafted because he's like he just came out of nowhere.
But I've been in the NBA up at this point
for twelve years and so, you know, people for the
most part, forget that. So once I got to Boston,
in order for me to win, and you know, myself,
Paul and Kevin, we knew that we had scored a
bunch of points, we had made an All Star teams,
and we were making great money. But in nord for
(35:55):
us to win, we had to restructure how we thought
about the game of basketball, and we had to allow
this help. So we had to win on the team's
terms and not on the terms of us as the
individual and think about I I gotta score. I still
got to score the most points. And that's the issue
that you see with a lot of guys when they're
subforming these super teams. Are they willing to sacrifice and
take less so they can win more? Okay, so so
(36:18):
take me back to that. That's you know, it's it's
two thousand seven and uh, you came off an incredible season,
right You broke Dennis Scott's UM ten year old record
for three point field goals made in the season. Then
you have you have ankle surgery and you get you
get traded to the Boston Celtics. They acquire you to
go with Pierce and Kevin Garnett. UM. Well, when you
(36:39):
first walked into the locker room for training camp the
next year, what was it like? You know, everybody was excited.
Training camp started in a role that that year, which
was probably one of the best things for us. UM.
I think that every team should go away from training
(37:00):
camp because it gets us out of our local market
and distractions. You know, if I stayed home during training camp,
I'm gonna timply want to go home and see my
family on a day that I have offer in between
practices or whatever it may be. But we were in wrong.
We couldn't do that, so we we had to learn
each other quickly. So it was great that the NBA
had us going wrong to play against the Raptors in room.
(37:23):
So we had you know, in the time to downtime,
we were in the hotel, we were sitting outside, we
couldn't sleep, we were walking through the city like we
were doing so much. That allowed us to kind of
catch up on time laws so we can get on
the same page. And you know, so everybody knew that
they had a particular skill set that could help the team.
And uh, those days away from the distraction and being
(37:48):
and the and you know what, we come home to
the media circuits. We were great or in rome and
getting acquainted with each other. Dug out like shells. Fox
Sports Trade. The book is from Outside, my journey through
life and the game that I love. The author is
the great Ray Allen. He's kind enough to spend some
time of this year on Fox Sports Radio. Um, you
(38:10):
write about that trip and you talk about the fact
that KG didn't like you dribbling, that Kg's personality was
a little bit prickly, and that he always kind of
wanted to want up people, even you know, demanding that
that he paid tabs because he tipped better. Um what
what do you remember distinctly about trying to understand his
personality and how to fit in with that team. Well,
(38:33):
it's I think early when we got together. Um, you
gotta remember me being in the Seattle locker room and
him being Minnesota. Were basically we're the alpha dolo in
the locker room and we're the ones that you know,
speak don huddles, were the ones that you know, make
decisions or help the coach and you know, do so
many different things. So you're used to telling young people,
(38:56):
you know, okay, this is what we need to do,
and everybody we need to come play tonight, and you know,
everybody needs to bring their game. Like now you're you're
in the locker room with with with three alpha dogs
and you're still used to your same protocols and how
you were because you had young players. So now we
have to figure out how to uh adjust and get
(39:17):
along with each other where you respect each other's space.
And it was that incident that I talked about my
book where I was dribbling and he didn't want me
to dribble. You know, And it was almost like he
was like telling me you're not you know, you can't
dribble in the locker room. And I was like, well,
damn dude, I'm I've been. This is how I prepare,
you do, how you do when I do, I do.
And what I learned quickly is the compromises that have
(39:40):
to be made um in order to get to that
that same page level. You know, if you don't make
those compromises, if I sit here and we're just having
this tissing contest, and then we're in for a long
year and it it explodes. And we see that a
lot of around professional sports, because egos are aren't willing
to go away. That's what was for us. We learned
(40:02):
that it's there's no ego. We have ego to help
this team win, and you know, we do less and
that's going to help the team more. And that that
was no small little lessons to teach people and even
players in this league today, like sign up with a
team and and and you know, to bring a new
player in it's an all star, like be ready to
sacrifice more than you ever did so that player can
(40:23):
do more for you and help you win. But but Ray,
you you know like that, like, look you as a
as a grown up, as somebody who won championships. You're
speaking the absolute truth. But the other the part to
it that so many of these guys don't really understand
is like they've always been the star, especially now how
we create these AU teams where you know, I've always
(40:43):
been the guy and if I'm not the guy, I
go to a team where I am the guy. And
if I go to college, I'm only going to go
to college for a year to which I can be
the guy. And then you go to an NBA team
and uh, though you're not ready to be the guy,
you only want to go to an NBA team where
you're So it's like it sounds everyone says like I
want to win, but are you willing to sacrifice, you know,
like you did, like averaging ten less points a game
(41:04):
to win a championship. There are not a lot of
people that are willing. They're like, yeah, I want to
win a championship, but I I want to still play
my game. I want to still get my shots, to
get my touches, get my minutes. Like it sounds really good,
but the user or what Chris Paul is doing this year.
That's the exception. The norm is guys think they can
still be them, only just add their superpowers to the
(41:25):
superpowers of others. Yeah, and to your point, you know,
you look at the transfers in college, you know, from
schools because things didn't go their way. It's like the
parents are letting their kids off the hook. And that's
where starting because there's this entitlement. The kids think that
the coach didn't play me enough, or I just didn't
(41:46):
like the way things win, so I want to transfer.
And that behavior starts with the parents at home, and
then it grows and it continues all the way if
that kid is fortunate enough to make it to the NBA.
But the one thing I will say is, yeah, you're right,
but if you're not willing to sacrifice, then you'll never
win anything. That's what winning is all about. Winning is
(42:07):
your ability to be a part of a team and
win on the team's terms. Like, yeah, you you'll make
the All Star team and yeah you'll score points. But
what at the end of the day do you want
Do you want to retire from the game of basketball
and never have felt what it feels like to hoist
that trophy up because every player that's played in in
any sport watches every championship game in every sport and
(42:31):
you admire, you, envy you, you you you're jealous of
that team that's winning because you you know, you want
that feeling. But you have to get out of your
own way, like you have to use your talent for
the good of the team and not for the good
of your individual skill set. Like it's not about winning
the championship, is not about making an all star team.
(42:52):
It's not about making more money. It's about you doing
your job for that particular team. And then when you win,
then you have that discussion. But while you're there, you
have to figure out what you need to help that
team out. And if you can do that, then you
put yourself on course on track to win. But for
the most part, you'll you'll see why guys ultimately don't
win because they're not willing to sacrifice. Um why did
(43:15):
it ends so poorly with you and Rondo and and
and that crew? Um? Well, Doug, I I signed a
contract with another team once I knew, um, you know,
as I was having conversations with the organization and they
weren't you know, you know, moving in the direction that
(43:38):
I had hoped that we will move in and to
be successful. Then it was time for me to move on.
And I knew it, and um, you know, I had
a conversation you know with uh, with Danny Ainge, and
I said, you know, there's certain things that you know,
we need to improve on, you know, around our offense,
you know specifically, and uh, you know, he was like,
(43:58):
I I agree with you. I wish I could disagree
with you, but I agree with you, and I'll take it,
you know, back to the coach and see what he says.
And then what came back was I need Just like
I just said, it worked against me. He said, you
need to do what we need you to do as
a team if you want to be a part of this.
If not, that you need to move on. So that
was my Those were my marching papers because at the
(44:21):
end of the day, if you're not gonna I want
to win two, but I see the things that we
need to improve on, and if we're not, if you're
not gonna address those so we can prove on them,
and then you know, you've You've made my decision for me,
right because because the way in which it's it's painted.
It's painted that you chose to leave a championship team.
But but the truth is that you guys were aging.
(44:42):
They had they had started to bring you off the bench,
they had changed your role and um and and so
so it's it's not like you guys had just come
off a championship and you decided to leave and go
to the Heat. There was a lot of other kind
of um ancillary issues that went with the decision, more
so than just I want to leave this team and
I'll go to a competitive competing team. Fair. No, I'm
(45:04):
I'm I'm New England through and through. You know I
still live in Connecticut. You know that was my home.
I didn't want to go anywhere, and I think that
playing against me. So when it came time to negotiate contract,
I was the guy that they left the least amount for.
So by the time I get ready to go or
to negotiate, you know, there's there's little to no room
(45:26):
wiggle room whatsoever. So once you know, based on all
the conversations about the future team and then contractually you
the writing is on the wall. Okay, so my tenure
is up as the Boston Celtics time for me to
move on. So once I move on, now I have
to figure out where I'm moving on to. That's how
the process worked. So my choices were the Clippers, the
(45:50):
Miami Heat, MINNESOTAA Wolves, in the Memphis Grizzlies. Those are
the four teams that we're interested in my services. In
that same breath, the Clippers then just signed Jamal Crawford,
so then I had I was down to three and
this is how fast free agency works. On June one,
team started contacting you and telling you, hey, we love
(46:10):
to have you come in and visit. We'd love to
have you on our team. And that's what we can do. Now.
By June July three, you can start signing contract. So
as guys are signing contract, I got three teams now
that are telling me they're interested in me. That I
have to figure out, you know, what's going to be
the best situation for me. So that's how you ultimately
end up deciding because free agent happened so fast, and
(46:31):
once ties were basically severed between the team that I
was hoping that I was going to stay with, and
you can figure what's the best option forward, So you
play with Miami Heat with Miami heat and with Lebron James,
what was what's the give me the difference in locker
room tone, in leadership style, in you know the composition
(46:53):
the Big Three? How how was it in Miami as
opposed to how it was in Boston? Well, I mean
you see the same similarities and and you know, routines
and and havings, guys getting in and doing what they
need to do with the consistencies. Um, the as long
as we were in Boston, we had a lot more
(47:17):
prosper uh. So, um, I think I think it was
tougher for spoilstra in um in Miami because you've got
Mike Miller, like how to play at all those guys
you know when you know there's no point uh to
(47:41):
the last couple of years. Um. So you see, those
are all the same similarities between you know, all those
you know, both teams that I played on, and uh,
you know, same thing, just small little uh philosophical differences
defensively different words, but you know, still the same stuff. Uh.
The shot you hit against the Spurs, I mean, like again,
(48:02):
like there's a lot of things you accomplished. I mean,
you you won a gold medal. You know, you won
two NBA championships with you know, one with the Boston Celtics,
one of the two most iconic franchises in the sport.
But you have one of arguably the top ten moments
maybe in the history of the NBA. UM. I know
(48:24):
you practiced that shot probably ten thousand times, and that
you are somebody who people emulate in that you would
lay on the floor and get up and run back
to the three point line. You knew exactly where you're
supposed to be. But what do you what are your
recollections of that shot? Game six NBA Finals? My recollection
(48:44):
is really just I thank god that you know, I'm
on the right side of this whole conversation as opposed
that we say or talk about how I didn't make it,
And you know, my life has been held since then,
and I can't go anywhere, my kids can't go any where.
I'm glad I'm not having that conversation, of course, But
what I do think about is the reason that I'm
(49:06):
we're not having that conversations because I was afraid of that,
you know, my whole career. You know, once I started
playing deep in the playoffs, I was sold, like afraid
of being a guy that let his team down and
the guy that people are talking about, you know, the
reason why the team lost, you know, turning the ball
over mission a free throw. So I We're going to
(49:29):
the gym, you know, and just kind of do everything
possible to to get my body prepared. Like I was obsessive,
you know. I came to and the lifting my legs.
I need to have the list of my legs and
any given time, I need to make sure that I
pushed my body into different places, you know, so I
(49:49):
can rely on it. You know, the fourth quarter is
winning winning time, and like I put myself up against
any anybody in the fourth quarter because I knew that
my body was gonna stand up, you know, even when
everybody else was getting tired. The game war on there,
the fatigue was setting in, but I was training myself
for those fourth quarter moments. All the running I've done,
you know, whenever I traveled throughout the year, I would
(50:11):
you know, leave the hotel, go to the health club,
or run in the cities. When I got in, I
would bring my bike with me at times and I'd
drive through the city. Like I always believed I was
doing things that other people weren't doing because when that
time came in the fourth quarter, I was gonna be
able to stand up and and endure longer than everybody
else was going to be able to. Uh last thing. Um,
(50:36):
Michael or Lebron. You obviously played against Michael, you played
with Lebron, And I know they're different, and I know
it's a it's an impossible it's it's an impossible comparison
to those of us who know and love ball because
they're two completely different players. But it's still the debate
that maybe only you can settle Michael or Lebron pick one. Yeah, yeah,
(50:58):
because I certainly has in the uh the decades, uh
and and played against most of them. Um, what what
I will say is the generations. You know, I said
this a little earlier, like you know, we're nostalgic about
the people that helped grow us up, and you know,
now the kids are growing up, and you know, there's
(51:19):
questions like how good was Michael Jordan's Like you know,
fifteen years ago, that was never a question because these
people that are growing up understood and they've seen him
real time. You know, they've seen him in games and
was just highlights. Everybody picked out the good stuff. But
you can see highlighting this stuff all the time. Uh,
Lebron is he'll go down as you know, the most
(51:40):
dominant player in his generation. But what I've seen, you know,
I to I face value. You know, Lebron is an
incredible player to stop. He's dominant. But what I've seen
in MJ was MJ did not have a weakness at all.
Like all the players that played against him, we tried
to do whatever we can and the Nicks tried to
(52:00):
beat him up. Uh, you try to keep the ball
out of his hand a lot of times, but whenever
he got it, it was incredible, what the things that
he could do with it. And you know, I you
know me personally, you know I I say MJ is
is the best of all times. Um. And you know
the game has changed. It's not about statistics, UM, It's
just about the when you look at the player, what
(52:23):
they are capable of doing on the floor, you know,
the from the three point line to mid range to
post up two three throws to the defensive end, like
you just you kind of throw all that into play.
And you know, I think you know MJ was hands down, uh,
leaps above everybody else. In the league, Ray Alan, The
new book is My Journey through life and the game
(52:45):
that I love. It's available on Amazon. One of the
all time grades when two NBA championships of Gold Medal
and the surefire Hall of Famer Ray I'm I'm so
happy that you found happiness in retirement and then you're
letting other people read about your your basketball life and
your journey. Thanks for jo into some Fox Sports Radio, Doug,
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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