Best of The Doug Gottlieb Show: 04/27/2018

Doug gives his thoughts on Round 1 of the NFL draft and he thinks the Browns got too cute by taking Baker Mayfield number 1 overall. He thinks Josh Rosen showed exactly who he is by the way he reacted to falling in the draft. Former offensive lineman Ross Tucker joins the show to tell Doug if he thinks Baker Mayfield was the right choice at number 1 overall.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of the Doug Gottlieb Show on
Fox Sports Radio. Boom, What Up America, Doug Gottlieb Show,
Fox Sports Radio, coming to you from the sunny streets
of Los Angeles, California, where my Chargers crushed it right. Sure,

(00:22):
we'll take Derwin James absolutely, give me, give me, give me,
give me, give me, give me. We'll here from the
Rams tonight. I'm sure as the Browns are on the clock,
I want to get to Josh Rosen playing to every
stereotype of who Josh Rosen is. Everyone is Josh Rosen

(00:43):
is exactly who you thought he was. But sometimes you
have to look for the clues when you're on that
first or second date. We got a lot to get to.
A couple of teams. I have zero clue what they're doing. Uh.
Some teams I know what they're doing and I still
don't like. And then there's other teams that did an
outstanding job. Just take the best player, which is usually

(01:09):
the best way to set yourself up for success, don't
overthink it. And the Browns can sit there and say, hey, look,
for the last six weeks, we knew we were taking
Baker Mayfield. We just didn't tell anybody. But there's a
reason they didn't tell anybody. If they've done all this
research and they already knew Baker was the guy, why

(01:32):
didn't they tell everybody? Well, you know, would have hurt
the potential trade value. You weren't trading that pick, not
even clothes. Couldn't you traded it before you You've made
moves before, you traded down, before you gave it up,
opportunities before they had to take a quarterback number one.
And if you're picking first, you don't have to try

(01:54):
and fool people. The reason they didn't tell everybody is
because people had said, don't do it. The number one
draft pick has gotta work. You can have a BUSTEDT two,
you can have a bust at three, you can have
a busted four. It pales in comparison when you have

(02:15):
a busted one. And here's what I think the Browns
are doing, not just at one, but also at four,
trying to outsmart the broom. And you can do it.
It can be done. But we talked about the risk yesterday,

(02:35):
we talked about the likelihood for success. I don't even
think it's it's the risk in the reward that they're
looking at I am by nature, and if you listen
to the show, if you watched me on TV, you've
listened to me called games. I like counter arguments. I
think it's a side of intelligence. You can see the
other side to every argument. Then you're showing that you

(02:59):
have of a level of of aptitude that others just missed.
Because most people are o, you know, for lack of
a for lack of more eloquent way of saying it,
Like Chris Spielman says, ceball hit ball, right, most people
are just grab the first thing, grab the first argument.
The most obvious answer is the answer. But I like

(03:22):
counter arguments. I like trying to explain what just because
everybody thinks the n c A is a bad thing,
I can explain, well, it's actually a really good thing.
I can explain to you why John Gruden being out
of coaching for a decade but covering the league in
the way in which he covered his league is way better,

(03:43):
is way better than hiring a coach that had been
in the NFL. It is I can find the counter
arguments that are smart. But this to me is it's
like Samsung guy, It's like Microsoft tablet guy. I'm not

(04:04):
saying Microsoft tablets aren't great, and there's something like I
grew up on the Microsoft word, right. I still I
have Apple products arout my house. I don't really know
how to use most of them, and don't act like
you know, law dude, you have to go. You have
to go take a class at Apple and pay for it,
within it and use it within a year. And even
then you're just kind of doing what the guy told

(04:25):
you to do. That said you can tell me how
good your Samsung phone is, how good your no Kia
phone is, how good whatever. Other Maybe call me a lemming,
but what everybody's saying like, this is what you need
to do. That's what you do. And every person I've

(04:46):
talked to in the NFL says, well, Sam Donald is
the better quarterback prospect. He's bigger, he's stronger, he has
bigger hands. He played against a better league to pensively
better competition. Overall, Uh, he made some spectacular play. He's

(05:06):
less experienced, which gives you more chance to mold him.
He's only twenty years old. Mayfield's twenty three years like everyone.
If you if you lined up thirty two GMS and
thirty two of them. My guess is that they're at
least twenty five and maybe more. Would tell you Sam

(05:27):
Sam Donald's the guy. And sometimes when we search for
that alternative argument. It's great for TV, it's great for
a boardroom, it's it's food for thought. Well, maybe we
should consider considered it, but then we went with the
sure thing. We went with the surest thing possible. It

(05:48):
seems to me that the Cleveland Browns, who have gotten
it wrong for so many years, tried hard and maybe
tried too hard to get it right. You get to
be where you're just a little too cute. It's not different.
When the Seahawks lost the Super Bowl to the New
England Patriots. Well, you know, we thought it was second
down and we're thinking they might call time out and

(06:08):
we wanted to do this. We want to do that,
or just line up and give the damn ball to
Marshawn Lynch. This is not that hard, right. It's a
lot like at the end of an NBA game. I
said this at the end of the Calves Pacers. Was
that Game five? The other night? Was Game five? Wasn't it?
Game six? Is tonight? Right? The Calves figured out, let's

(06:30):
just get the ball Lebron James and he'll figure it out.
The Pacers should have doubled team Lebron James and don't
let him get it, and when he gets it, makes
somebody else beat you. Sometimes it really is that simple.
What is the old acronym K I S S keep
it simple? Stupid, isn't it? And so look, maybe John

(06:55):
Dorston's gonna hit it out of the park. Maybe they
know something we don't know. But I can tell you
unequivocally that from college coaches, some of whom coached against
some of whom coached um Baker Mayfield, to NFL coaches,

(07:19):
to NFL personnel people, all of them like man. I
like him too, but that's too high. He's not the
best quarterback process. But I don't love Josh Rosen's act.
But Josh Rosen looks like an NFL quarterback more than
Baker Mayfield looks like a quarter Here's John Dorsey after

(07:40):
the draft for the Cleveland Browns organization. This was the
best available player, and I think that when he brings
this organization, I couldn't be more excited to him after
you know, and those other guys are really good quarterbacks too,
But I just felt this was the best fit for
this organization moving forward. He he fits Cleveland in this
underdog mentality. He it's Cleveland and do you say we can't,

(08:01):
and we absolutely can. And he is different than anybody else.
You know, they've they've tried so many different guys. He
is different, but he played in the league. And I'm
a Big twelve guy. I will tell you without any
question that there have been years where the Big twelve
was as competitive as the top at the top, as

(08:24):
as other teams. But the league is built specifically to
stop spread spread. It's really hard to have a good defense,
and it's such an offensive like it's if you have
to be an old school college football fan to understand
this reference. It's like the old whack games. Do you
guys remember when B y U used to play late

(08:46):
at night and they'd have Tie or Coy Dettmer or
or Steve Young or any of their quarterbacks that would
run around and throw for a million yards. Remember those
old whack games. That's how the league is built because
all of them are spread teams, all of them throw
it a ton, and all of them have great wide receivers.
They have big armed town at quarterbacks, But when you're

(09:10):
trying to compare what Baker Mayfield was able to do statistically,
remember you're comparing it apples again two oranges, and you
can say, well, he went into the beat Ohiose State
at Ohiose State. Remember even Ohio State defense, which is
littered with pros, littered with prosh it was an offense
that was inept at that point in time. And oh yeah,

(09:32):
by the way, it's a defense that's built to beat
Big ten style of teams, not Big twelve style of
teams where they spread you out and run oop dup.
There wasn't another Big twelve player drafted last night, and
the Big twelve players that will be drafted are offensive players,
and the Big twelve defensive players that will be taken.

(09:54):
Guess who they played for Oklahoma, who Baker Mayfield didn't
compete against when he was putting up all these numbers.
So look, I like Baker Mayfield, I love the story,
but I think all the Browns did was in an
effort to be in an effort to have the counter argument,
an effort you try so hard to be different. They

(10:14):
didn't just do what anyone should have done, which is
we've been bad for a long time. We had the
number one pick. It's a good quarterback. Trap, who's the
best quarterback? Sam Donald, Let's take him. Here's a little
bit more from Dorsey with Baker Mayfield. What we have
is a guy who we talked about, is a who
wins the game of football, is ultra competitive, revered by

(10:35):
his teammates and anybody who has ever been around him.
This is a guy that is earned everything he has
ever had from high school to college and now up here.
He is a winner. He's competitive, He's I mean, he
really is. Again, Landry Jones is the all time winning
his quarterback in Oklahoma history. Oklahoma wins football games. They

(10:55):
just they do, they do, they've won. They're awesome. But
you're dealing from a talent advantage in comparison to the
rest of the league. You just are and the whole
winner idea like, uh, what was it Joey Joey Dorsey
was what's the what's the kid's name? That was? The
University of Miami quarterback Dorsey? Right, Ken Dorsey, Right, Ken Dorsey.

(11:21):
Want a ton of games? Tim Tebow want have done
the games? Like stop with the whole like you're he's
a winner. Thing None of what he said was wrong.
He has earned everything he's gotten. He is a very
good leader. People do like playing with him, Like now
of these things wrong. But there comes to a point
to which you like, little guy playing in the bad weather,

(11:43):
play with inferior talent, trying to do something in Cleveland
it hasn't been done. Keep it simple, stupid. When they
look they and if you don't think that's who they are,
why would they take Denzel Award at four? They just
they got too cute. They got too cute. Chubb is

(12:05):
sitting there at five, a dominant defensive player who can
give you a consistent pass rush. He's got a great motor.
He's had ten sacks the last two years. He fits
in honestly fits in better with the Browns and four
three team. He doesn't three four with the Denver Broncos.
But the Broncos are like, well he's we were there,

(12:25):
Broncos were gonna trade out of that pick. By wait,
Chubb's available. Yeah, we're taking him. Why because he's the
best player. Keep it simple, stupid. He's really good at
football and he'll figure it out. And look, I like
the fit stuff I do. I I was, I was
always worried. Um, I'm always worried with four three and

(12:47):
three four defensive ends handing the dirt and standing up.
That's a big adjustment. But at some point in time
you just go like, I don't really know, Like Derwin
James wasn't the wasn't the type of safety that the
l A Chargers needed. But Tom Tolesco sit there and
goes like, wait, Derry ja was available. He's way above

(13:08):
other guys on our board. We're taking him. You can
tell me that the Browns weren't trying to be cute,
that they really evaluated Baker Mayfield and evaluated the other
quarterbacks and thought he was better. If it stood alone,
When you combine it with the Denzel Award pick, it
tells you all you need to know. Sometimes people try

(13:30):
and act too smart and it gets too cute. I
do this oftentimes when I'm talking to you and I
try use try to use bigger words that I might
use normally, and then sometimes I I fumble it and
stumble it or use it in a wrong wrong tense
or wrong reference point. Just keep it simple, stupid. Who's
the best player? We got the number one pick. Who's

(13:52):
the best quarterback? Who gives the most likely success And
they didn't. You know, they're the guy that was like,
you know these Kias are or you could buy Alexis,
some Mercedes, and you know anyone of Cadillacs, any one
of the high end cars. Kias are really making nice cars. Yes,
but there's a reason they've done. There's a reason that
they have. Uh, what's the ones who do the the

(14:16):
research to find out what the best made cars are?
Not Car and Driver. That's the magazine. Shoot JD Power, right, Like,
there's a reason JD. Power is out there. It doesn't
mean that every Lexus or every Infinity or every Cadillac
or every high end car is made better than a
Hyundai or Akia, not all of them. But if you

(14:40):
got a Hunter Gray in your pocket, aren't you gonna
buy the one that JD. Power and associate says is
the most likely to give you consistent performance? Keep it simple, stupid.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific big on

(15:00):
Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. You
go back a couple months ago and Josh Rosen talked
about if you wanted to be the number one pick
in the draft and he is not to get highest
possible in my game is to go to the right
team because that success is long term. I mean, I'd

(15:20):
rather have Tom Brady's career have four year cree. Well, hey, look,
I don't care what I get picked, just it's more
about fit. It's funny because last night, remember there's a
hundred and twenty eight Division one schools, right, there's eighty

(15:41):
five kids on scholarship at these schools. Okay, hundred times
eighty five. Yeah, you want to give me about a
rough estimate of how many kids were talking about We're
in the eight thousand, nine thousand sort of number, right,
and of course eight nine thousand aren't coming out, but
there's probably at least a thousand draft prospects out there.

(16:04):
Let's just say a thousand draft prospect. He went ten.
So if you have perspective, you go like, look, could
have gone in second round. It could have been Lamar
Jackson sitting there when the Heisman Trophy, not doing anything,
twilling my thumbs by myself with my mom. That's, you know,
doing the Aaron Rodgers last guy in the green room thing.
I was drafted tenth. He could have said, what a

(16:26):
great fit playing indoors got David Johnson, got Lara Fitzgerald
learned from Sam Bradford, got Mike Glennon, by the way,
he to like being my glenn And second year in
a row, you're like, yeah, I got a new team.
Like wait, you drafted another quarterback? What in the hell?
No one is unlucky. As Mike Glennon happened when he's
in Tampa, happens in Chicago. Now, wherever Mike Glenning goes,

(16:49):
they're gonna they're gonna go like, do we love you?
And then we're gonna go draft a better quarterback anyway.
Remember the guy who said I don't care, I don't
care by going number one brother Tom Brady's career, but
I don't I don't care about this was Josh Rosen. Yesterday.
I was, honestly, as these picks were rolling by one,
two or three, I was angry. I was pretty piste

(17:10):
off with these teams were passing by me. But the
second I got that call, for some reason, all that
went away and just a really deep sense of motivation
set in. I looked at it. Nine big mistakes made
ahead of me look, I understand he's just being honest
and and you can use that as part as the motivation.
But Josh Rosen is everything that we told you he

(17:31):
was and not what he purported himself to be. He
wants to be a guy who's a free thinker. He
wants to be seen as honest but understanding. He wants
He thinks he's smarter than everybody, because he's been told
you're smarter than everybody. Right, Both his parents Ivy League grads.
He went to u c. L A. He thinks he

(17:52):
knows more about life than other people that have lived
twice as long. And it all came out right. Sam
Donald said, expect winds, right, expect this is this is
Sam Donald interviewed after he's drafted a lot of winds.
I think that's what I can bring into a franchise.
And but at the same time, and that's the process.

(18:13):
But I'm ready to go to work. Like I said,
there's just there's something about Rose into which you're like,
he's a phony. He's wearing a Gucci belt, he's got
four dollar shoes. He is not what he tried to
He tried to show himself to be. The entire draft process.
I don't care where we get drafted. I'm cool. The

(18:35):
first thing out of his mouth was nine mistakes looking forward,
nine big mistakes made ahead of me, nine big mistakes
made ahead of me. But you said it didn't matter
what where you get drafted. Of course it matters. Of
course it matters. That's one of those. That's one of
those when people say, let me be honest with you.

(18:56):
So everything you said before wasn't honest. Fox Sports Radio
has the best more talk line up in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app. Ross Tucker
joins us. He's a former offensive lineman NFL elest for
NBC sports series x M Westwood Want. He joins us
on the Doug Goldy Show. Got a great podcast as well,

(19:16):
Right my like, I was surprised they brought him back,
that they didn't kind of help usher him out the door,
considering how much he struggled kind of running and I
know you don't have to run a ton when you
have that much wherewithal you played that many years. But
makes a lot of sense if you can get money
night football done it. Yeah, I don't know how you
turn that down. I mean, especially, you know, he's got kids,

(19:37):
he knows the deal. Fifteen years, he's already going to
be a Hall of Famer. I just don't you know,
how much damage do you want to do to your
body with all the ct stuff that's come out. He's
a really smart guy. It's just when you really sit
there and you start to weigh it, I think it's
pretty much a no brainer for him. I do find
the timing of it curious because now here on day two,

(20:00):
if you're a team that wants a tight end, you're
jumping in front of the Cowboys because now you know
the Cowboys. I mean, we already thought the Cowboys would
take a tight end and probably pretty high. So maybe
it doesn't change it that much, but I think it
makes it much more likely that they kind of have
to get one today that can help them next year.
So if you're any of the other teams that want

(20:21):
a tight end, make sure you jump up and put
it down. I don't think you did that many favors
by this news coming out, and I don't know that
he wanted it out. I don't know how it got leaked,
but it did. Yeah, well it got leaked. I think
as ESPN decided that that's where they're going. That would
be my guess, right, And if you're the Dallas Cowboys,
I guess you're happy. But on the other hand, there's

(20:41):
there's probably a why didn't we know sooner? If if
we're surprised? I had heard it a couple of weeks ago,
but I obviously it only got out when it became
kind of close to official. All Right, So what does
that mean? The Cowboys chose uh to go linebacker instead
of going wide receiver. I assume that means they're going
tight end and wide receiver in the very near future.

(21:01):
Did I think most people expect that to be the case. Yeah,
And it probably just depends on how, you know, how
the ball, how the board falls, which guy they'll end
up getting. I mean, there's a tight end from South
Dakota State, Dallas Goddard, who was literally named after the
Dallas Cowboys, so that would be pretty funny. There's Mike
Kisiki from Penn State, who made a tough place for

(21:23):
the Ninny Allons the last couple of years, and a
wide receiver. There's a guy that people thought they might
take a nineteen Cortland Sutton from SMU, So there's a
bunch of different options for them with those two positions.
I just the most interesting part of this to meet
Doug is, you know how the Cowboys are always restructuring
and they're pushing out guy's contracts. They restructured Witten like

(21:45):
a month ago and gave him four million dollars in
a bonus now rather than a five point seven five
million dollars salary. So I don't know if I'm the
Cowboys and I'm kind of like, hey, Jason, we're gonna
have to go ahead and get that money back. I
have to look con see what the grievance procedure is there,
But I don't think that they just gave him four
million dollars as a parting gift. Yeah, and and his

(22:06):
ESPN paying a guy who's never called a game four
million dollars, which would be which would be hot, whichould
be high in terms of what his you would think
his market value would be. He's not Gruden. It that's
less than Gruden, but that's more than anybody else would make,
who's a tight end coming straight out of the game.
But I guess you're worth what somebody's willing to pay
you Ross Tucker joining us on the Doug Gotlip Show.

(22:28):
Baker Mayfield goes one, What was your reaction, Well, I
understand why the Browns did it, but I don't like it.
I wouldn't addrafted him. I mean, I just I'm conservative
by nature. Doug I was an undrafted free agent. So
I love that he's a two time walk on. I
love his underdog mentality. I thought he was clearly the

(22:49):
most accurate quarterback. But you're talking about a guy that
he didn't have time to study the Chargers playbook because
he said he had to prioritize. But you've got like
a nine part You series, and you know much time
I probably took to make that breath farve picture that
they had. Are you kidding me? And by the way,
if it's about you know, prioritizing time, why are you

(23:11):
even going to the Chargers at all if you're not
going to look at the playbook? I mean, that's bad,
TI man. I just I you know, I just don't
know guys that have a lot of success at that
position that two things like that. You know, most of
the guys I know, we're just never do that, you know,
Wentz and Brady and Russell Wilson. There doesn't not like that. Now,
there's there's some guys that have had some success. I

(23:32):
think Roethlisberger was like that when he was younger. Um,
maybe can I don't know, and maybe bigger can do it,
but it would be too much risk for me. I'm
a risk averse guy and I would not want to
take that on done alright, did there's there's another guy
kind of like that. Remember when Josh Rosen, When Josh
Rosen told us he didn't care, he didn't care where

(23:54):
when he where he was being drafted, didn't didn't care
at all. Um, this is the same. Um. Then last
night he says that that nine teams ahead of him
made a mistake. I was, honestly, as these picks were
rolling by one, two or three, I was angry. I
was pretty piste off at these teams were passing by me.
But the second I got that call, for some reason,
all that went away and just a really deep sense

(24:16):
of motivation set in. I looked at it, nine big
mistakes made ahead of me, and I understand that you
just used his motivation. You're just saying what you feel.
But isn't that the real Josh Rosen, not the one
that said don't care where I go, just want to
have fit. What we what we heard last night was
the real guy that can be very, very polarizing. Yeah,
he told me, Doug. He would have been probably the

(24:39):
last of the group that I would take because you
look at it. First of all, the guy Doug had
two concussions last year that caused him the miss games. Okay,
he's a very smart kid. His mom went the Princeton
dad went the pen as a renowned spine surgeon. I mean,
what if you get to concussion in appreciating game in
August or September. I mean, knowing what I know now, Doug,

(24:59):
if I got three ushings in the year, that'd probably
be a rap for me, especially if I just got
a nice chunk of change is being a top ten
pick in the NFL draft. And obviously he and his
parents are very aware of the brain issue concussion stuff.
Then you have his college coach who multiple times basically
made it pretty clear that football is not always the

(25:20):
priority for Josh. When you when you make a comment like, Okay,
he's great when he's here, and if you can get
him the solely work when he leaves the facility. You know,
Josh has a lot of interest, but if you can
really challenge him and get him the I mean that
those are red flags. I that that's the reason why
three other quarterbacks went before. And then, by the way,
the obviously one last thing. He was the face of

(25:42):
U c. L A and clearly already a pro prospect.
And he wears the hat that has the effort on it.
I mean, forget even the political part of it. He
wears a hat that has the who does that? Who?
I mean that that's just such poor judgment to me,
that's three strikes and I'd be out on Josh Rose
and the concussions. What is college coach says? And then
just the decision making them wearing a hat like that.

(26:04):
You gotta be kidding me, alright, So uh, I mean
the Jets could not have been more fortunate, right, The
Browns take Mayfield and take a risk. The Giants choose
The Giants never drafted the top five, and they choose
to pass on the top top quarterback on most everybody's board.
And it falls to the Jets who made this bizarre
trade where they over where they overpaid to get only

(26:26):
the third spot, and yet here the Jets are. I mean,
sometimes it's better to be, you know, lucky than good,
and they end up getting lucky. You're a thousand percent correct.
I thought it was a terrible trade by the Jets
to give up three top fifty picks to get what
might end up being the third quarterback on the board.
I mean, the Giants didn't think enough of any of

(26:47):
these guys, and the Broncos didn't to take any of them,
and the Giants could have gotten anybody, but Mayfield made
up one of them, and the Jets trade three top
fifty picks to maybe get the third guy on their word.
But I guess you're right, Doug. I mean, all's well,
that ends well. I thought Sam Donald was clearly the
best guy. He's clearly the guy that I would want

(27:07):
the most and I would sleep the best at night
if I took can. I remember talking to him back
at the U. S. Army Bowl. You know, people say
he's quiet and stuff. He had some swag to him too.
I mean he went to USC after they already had
a commitment from the number one quarterback in the country.
You know, when he was in high school played hoops,
you know, played wide receiver, and linebacker. I just I
really like Donald and I think you're exactly right. I

(27:30):
think it worked out perfectly for the Jets. And they
got a guy I thought should have gone number one,
and I thought the Giants should take him a number two,
and he fell right to the Jets perfectly at three.
Love what the Colts did, right, Like, we need to
protect him, We need to protect Andrew. Luck we went
and got quentnin Nelson. Feels like you plug him in
and he's going to be a starter for ten years.
And and then not only that, Dug, They've got four

(27:52):
picks today. I'm in the bus going to the draft
right now, by the way, I'm on the media bus
right now, Doug, and they have a police escort for us.
I forgot how awesome please escorts were. Please escorts are
very very underrated. I need more police escorts in my life.
But anyway, quit Nelson. He's an escort for Andrew Lux
the coos with that. Jets trade four picks today and

(28:14):
they got the guy I thought was the best player
in the draft. And the thing that people don't realize
that I try to tell them, is when you have
a pulley like that on your offensive line that permeates
not only throughout the whole offensive line, put through the
entire team. You need that enforcer being the guy that
the d linemen and linebackers are kind of looking around,

(28:35):
like where is your where are you? Like? I don't
want to get my buckets by him. It's almost like
when you have a running back, I can all start
running people over when you have a guy out there
like a Logan Mankins or a college Assemily or guys
like that that are really out there kicking people's But
I think it had an impact on the entire team,
and that's what Nelson can bring to the Colts. If
you're Joe Flacc, are you pissed today? Say that one

(28:58):
more time here, Joe Flac, are you upset today? I mean, look,
I know they got him a tight end, but they
also went and got Lamar Jackson and it kind of
diverts attention and puts a little bit of pressure. If
your Flacco, are you upset with the Lamar Jackson pick? Yeah?
I mean, how how can you not be? I've yet
to find a guy who is happy when a team
drafts a guy to take his job and now he

(29:19):
has not played as well, the thing is interesting to
me about that though. This is the last year with
any guaranteed money in his deal. So Flacco has a
has a way of, you know, rising to the occasion
when he has to. And I wouldn't be surprised if
he goes out and has a really good year and
then puts the Ravens and kind of a tough position.
But no, I mean, you take a quarterback in the
first round, You're and you trade up to get that

(29:42):
quarterback in the first round, you're basically saying we're gonna
move on to the drill Flacco at some point. It's
just a matter of when. And it's fascinating because Lamar
Jackson is so different from him. I wonder how they'll
use him this year. I like the idea of just
giving Lamar a package just so every week deep unsive
coordinators have to be worried about him coming out, like,

(30:02):
you know, like Cordell Stewart did back in the day,
give me, give me the one player who you'll be most.
You think, well, we'll have the best, the biggest impact
on their team. They'll be drafted today. Darius guys Um
I'm a huge Darius guys fan. I have been he
played the Army Bowl a few years ago as well.
I think that, you know, whatever happened with these interviews,

(30:24):
I think that's why he's fell in the draft. Either
people think he's lying or they don't like it he
told the truth. I don't know. I don't know which one.
It is right that they're either mad that he lied
about the foot. By the way, Doug, who lies about that?
Like that's a weird thing to just make up, isn't it.
You know about what questions he was asked. I personally
think it was more likely that he got the words
from somebody, Hey, this is not good for the NFL.

(30:46):
You need to say it didn't really happen when they
call you. That's the much more likely scenario. I think
part of that is why he fell. But you, dude,
the guy average seven point six yard to carry at
l s U. I thought he was better than four
nette a couple of years ago. But it was awesome.
A lot of people, a lot of people have have
have said that, Hey, uh, I enjoy obviously enjoy talking

(31:06):
with you, love your work, enjoy the draft. May do
a great job. Thanks for joining us, no problem, Thank you,
Ross Tucker be sure to catch live editions of The
Doug gott Leaps Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
Haven't spent my entire professional life in the front office
like Michael Lombardi has. He's got un announced, he's got

(31:28):
a new book out, he's got an outstanding podcast. He
joins us on The Doug Gottlip Show here on Fox
Sports Trail. By the way, the book is called Gridiron Genius.
What was your reaction to Baker Mayfield going number one?
You know, I I worked it backwards and for me,
if you would have asked any personnel director in September
who would be the top pick in the draft, Baker
Mayfield's name never comes up. And so when you work

(31:50):
that way, and then you start understanding his senior season
in which you know, he played really well against Ohio State,
the level of competition in the Big Twelve, to me,
all due respect to people that watch that that defense
doesn't shine very very effectively. You know, he's got the
likes of two Lane on his schedule. You know, he
played against Iowa State in Kansas State, which were decent defenses.

(32:11):
And then when you put on the Georgia tape, you
really have to worry about Kenny make the throws in
the Georgia tape on third down from the pocket that
aren't easy throws, and I was concerned about it. You know.
To me, this this rise that he had along with
the Georgia tape makes me very skeptical. Now the Browns
see something in him that I haven't been able to
see on the tape, and uh, you know, it's good

(32:33):
for them, and so hopefully they can make this six
ft quarterback who's never really played under center operate and
throw the ball into a steady wind that comes off
Lake Area and handle the elements and we'll see you know,
people say, well, you know, he's a lot like Drew Brees.
No time out. Drew Brees. True Brees beat Roger Federer

(32:53):
in tennis in high school. This is the kind of
athlete we're talking about with Drew Brees. Baker Mayfield have
walked on to Texas Tech and as a freshman he
had air men this year. He was freshman all he
was a Freshman of the Year in the Southeast Conference.
But he was so effective that Cliff Klingsbury said to
him you're gonna have to compete for the starting job

(33:13):
with Patrick Mahomes and he transferred to Oklahoma at that point. Yeah. Yeah,
and David's Webb to David web Ac should beat him out, Uh,
during that freshman year at at Texas Tech. It's a
great point, Mike. It's gonna be very interesting to see. Um.
I felt like the Jets they made a terrible trade
and ended up being incredibly fortunate yesterday. Crazy to think

(33:35):
that one. No, I think they the bad trade bailed
him out. I mean, they could have stayed at six,
and they liked Josh Rosen. And I heard all you
said about Josh Rosen. I think that the Jets were
prepared to take Josh Rosen at at three if Donald
wasn't there. I think they were going to do that.
And they were comfortable with him because Jeremy Bates, who's
the quarterback offensive coordinator at the Jets, is best friends
with Jet Fish, who coached Josh Rosen at U c

(33:56):
l A last year. So they felt that, you know,
they had the concerns that you and before I came
on that they were about Josh Rosen, but they thought
they could work their way through it. Look you know,
when you're desperate for a quarterback, you can believe anything, right,
you can work your way through all the problems. And
so they were. But this trade, you know, put them
in a precarious position. And then when the Browns took
Mayfield and the Giants took Barkley, which is a really

(34:18):
good pick, but Barkley, you know, taking a running back
that high is fascinating. You know, the Jets just stepped
right into Donald. Um, let's let's get to that giant steel.
You've worked with the best, You've been part of some incredible,
incredible moves on draft day, incredible foresight. Um, you're the Giants,
and he got Eli Manning. They think he's got something
in the tank. Some people do not think he's got

(34:40):
much in the tank. And they're gonna try and get
as much juice out of that orange as possible. They
got o b j for for the for at least
the near future. Um. Would you have gone Donald or
would you have gone running back? No, I might have
gone I would have probably tried to trade down if
I could have got something for it. But I would
have gone Ray, Klons, Smith, Bradley, Chubber Nelson. I think

(35:02):
those three guys are going to go the Pro Bowl,
and I would have come our way with that. Now,
look I like, but I like, say Klon Barkley. I do.
He's a good player. He really is. Okay, he is
a good player. But I don't need a Bentley at
running back. I can I can drive a decent car.
I don't need to have the top of the line
car at running back. I can find Sonny Michelle picked
that thirty one is a really good running back. Okay,

(35:23):
and he's gonna come in and give the Patriots everything
that that he has and in a combination of other players,
But you can't find linebackers like Rocon Smith. This is
his very similar to Derrick Brooks. And when your defense
is fast inside, especially with all the way people throw
the ball in short coverage, you can't get to the
quarterback because the ball comes out too quick, so you
need speed underneath. Rocan Smith can make those plays. This

(35:46):
is what alerted you Baker Mayfield. When you watch Georgia
and Baker Mayfield had to play against a fast team
and NFL style of defense. It was not easy for him.
The speed of the game gets better and all of
a sudden, you've got to step it up. I thought
Rokan's myth was great. I think Quintin Nelson's going to
go to Pro Bowl. Plus, you've got to ask yourself
when you're picking second in the draft, Okay, you just

(36:07):
can't look at it as how he fills your depth chart.
You have to say to yourself, work backwards again. Where
will I be on the second contract? And and Nelson's
second contract? You would be very lucky to have a
guard for five years. You know Aaron, Andrew Andrew Norvell
went for sixteen million here, so you feel like, Okay,
that's a good deal. Shoves second contract, you know that's

(36:29):
a good deal. And Smith's second contract, you know that
would be a good deal. The running back you don't
even know if you're going to get a second contract.
That's why I wouldn't have done it. It's it's it's
really amazing. Michael Lombardi joining us. The new book is
Gridiron Genius. The podcast is now. That doesn't come out
until September, though, Doug, that's okay, we're gonna, we're gonna,
we're gona keep pumping and we're gonna have you on.
That way we can keep having you on. So so

(36:49):
the people have run plus download the podcast GM Street.
It's funny. I got a text yesterday from a college coach.
He's like, all these quarterbacks and he was actually, he's
like one of a guy who's coach and if NFL
caliber quarterbacks and he's like, dude, this is not hard.
Roquan Smith, Bradley Chubb and Quentin Nelson, those guys are animals.

(37:09):
Those guys, you know, put him, put them in pen
for ten years, and your starting lineup, they'll be in
Pro Bowls. Uh what about the Chubb deal? Though? Playing
in the three four? I know there's a lot of
four man fronts now, especially um the way football is
played in two thousand and eighteen, but it is. It
is a dramatic change for somebody who's always played with
their hand in the dirt. Well, I think chubbs, you know,

(37:30):
on one side of the ball. Look, they're gonna end
up when you're in nickel, you're gonna have four down guys.
And if he could move around, and he's athletic enough
to move around, you know, I've always been a defensive lineman. Uhficionado.
I would draft seven of them if I could. But
the way the game has changed. I think I would
have picked Rocan Smith over Chubb because you can move
Rocan Smith around and put him in different places and

(37:50):
blitz them. He can cover, he can you know, he
can make plays from sideline to sidelines. So you know,
it's a unique way the game has gone now. But
with Chubb going to Denver, the protection is always going
to be slid to Valan Miller, and this gives Chubb
a chance to be isolated one on one, whether it's inside,
on the guard, whether it's over a tackle. Chubb can
play anywhere along the line, and that versatility gives you

(38:12):
a chance to match him up against the worst lineman
because you know Miller can beat the best one. Didn't
the Saints massively overpay for Marcus Daveno, You know, I look,
I think the Saints. I said this on my podcast
shan Sean Payton has always followed the Bill Parcels model
of how to build a team. And so what Parcels
does after every year is he puts three He has

(38:32):
three categories of players. We must have this category of play.
We must have this player to compete next year. We
want this category of player to compete next year, and
we need this player to compete next year. And when
when Sean said publicly we must have a defensive vent,
I knew he was putting a defensive end in his
musk category. So he paid a price that he thought

(38:54):
he had to do to get that must crossed off.
I'm with you. I think he overpaid. I thought he
was going up actually to get Lamar Jaccent because usually
when you pay the one next year, you're going for
a quarterback. I really think, Doug, I really think that
the Chargers made a huge mistake and not coming back
into the first round and trying to pick Lamar Jackson. Well,
a lot of people think they're going to get quarterback today.

(39:14):
I was told he's really struggled with the white board
with with the Chargers. But um, but and so maybe
that gave them the he b G. So you like
him in Baltimore? Do you think that I think that's
a great move. Look, I think this when you take
look one thing about when you take a quarterback. Quarterbacks
are like baseball stadiums. You have to configure your team
around their talent base. And if the Chargers bring out

(39:36):
bring out Lamar Jackson and expect him to learn their
playbook time out. He's not Philip Rivers. That's not what
he is. You have to divide an offense that fits
him now. I know when he went and talked to
New England, they were not as concerned mentally about what
he could could come back with. I know when he
talked to some other teams they weren't. However, they were.
If you want to keep the offense the same and
you expect him to come in there and do it,

(39:57):
I'm sure you're probably gonna have some concerns. But I
think Baltimore, look, they've got to get away from Joe
Flacco's contract. It's not getting any better next year they
can dump it with no guaranteed money, and they've got
to rebuild their offense. They need to be explosive. They've
been trying to answer their offense with signing every receiver.
I mean, they're actually putting together the two thousand and
twelve Pro Bowl team there. All they need is Dez
Bryant to sign and they'll have that complete. So I

(40:18):
think they need to have a wide receive. I think
they need a quarterback that can generate some plays on
their own, because they can't do it with their skill players,
I agree, but that that brings out the why not
get a skill player in that spot instead of getting
a quarterback in that spot? Well, look, I think they
gotta have an answer for you know, one thing we
know for sure, Joe Flacco can't play forever, and Joe
Flacco has got You've got to find a replacement for him,

(40:40):
and you've got to do it quickly. And if you
get Lamar Jackson out there, Look, here's what's gonna happen, Doug.
Lamar Jackson is gonna play in the first preseason game,
and he's gonna go to training camp and those players
of the Ravens, especially Terrell Suggs, is gonna watch this
guy and he's gonna say whoa and the team is
gonna want him to be successful. This is a huge
pick for Baltimore because they can change the dynamic of
what they're doing quickly and they can compete quickly. Derwin

(41:03):
James falls to the Chargers the same charges you were
talking about should have gotten a quarterback that. I mean,
that's like a gift from Hunter, right, Why did he
slip so far? You know, I don't have an answer
for that, I really don't. And there's nothing off the
field that was a concern. He's a really good player,
you know. It's funny. James was telling people on his
pro day that they asked him who was the best
player he's ever played against the A C, C or anywhere,

(41:26):
and everybody expected him to say to Shaun Watson, and
he said, Lamar Jackson by far. How about that? But
I I don't disagree with the Chargers taken James here.
I don't. I don't dispute that. I think they took
the best player. What I have a problem with the
Charges is not being aggressive and coming back in a round.
If they pick Mason Rudolph today, I think they think
they have the answer for Philip Rivers. I don't think
that's the case. I like, I'm an oklahomasday guy. I

(41:49):
tend to agree with you. I don't you know, now
he doesn't. He's better and warm weather, which you always
be warm weather, But I just don't. I don't think
he has it. I think he's mechanical. I think I
think he doesn't have the anticipation of throws. He plays
in a seven on seven offense and when he's protected
and he has a clean pocket. See the Southeast Conference,
the Southwest Conference where the Big twelve whatever we wanna

(42:10):
call it. Now, there's not a lot of pressure on
the quarterback and so it's easy throws and he's running
an offense where it's just four verticals. And James Washington,
to me, is one of the best receivers in this draft.
He makes plays like I can't see, and I think
it really helped Rutolf. And I think if somebody gets in,
whether it's the Patriots or the Chargers in the second round,
I think they're gonna still be looking for a quarterback

(42:30):
in three years. I tend to agree with you. Um, okay,
it's fast and you bring up James Washington. The Cowboys now, no,
the need wide receiver. They need a tight end with
Jason Witten retiring and going to to Monday Night football.
Obviously it hits some bizarre timing. Uh. If you're them,
what do you address first tight end and wide receiver? Well,
I get the best player. I mean, if they like Sutton.

(42:51):
I hear they like Sutton from SMU. I mean I
would draft to James Washington because I think he's dynamic.
I think he gives when the balls in his hands,
you better watch out, So I would certainly do that.
But look, the problem with trying to fill the tight
end position in today's football is there's no real tight ends.
There's big receivers we call them f and so they
line up in the slot. Eric Ebron might have tight
end on his on his place sheet, but he's really

(43:13):
a big receiver. The same thing, the same thing with
the with the Kid Ingram that the Giants drafted last year.
They're not tight ends. They can't control the end of
the line and you can't run the ball strong side
when they're in the game. You have to find a
guy Witt and gave them the opportunity to be able
to control the under the line. He could be a
motion guy. He was versatile. He could play y which
is on the end of the line, and he could

(43:33):
play f which is that big receiver. And in this
draft there's very few players like that. You mentioned the
wind in Cleveland. There's a strong wind in Buffalo, right uh.
Josh Allen obviously has a ball that can cut through
the wind. If you were going to formulate a plan
for that group in Buffalo, when to use him, how
to use him, especially when you have a g McCarron

(43:54):
up there. How do you develop Josh Allen? Well, look,
I think you got to build a team around what
is talent. You know, he's ever gonna be completely accurate,
you know that. I mean you just have to accept
that you can improve his accuracy, but you're never gonna
make it to wear. It's a pinpoint. So you need
big receivers. You're gonna need guys with arm length. You're
gonna need guys that are large targets like Kelvin Benjamin.
You're gonna need guys, you know. And they have some

(44:15):
guys on their team. They have Rod Streeter that's big.
You know, he's over six street, Andre Holmes is big.
Is a Jones is six too. So they've got some
big receivers and I think that's what they need, to
have big receivers with long with long arm length who
can go and get the ball. You know, when Brady
throws the ball in Amadola, he usually has to put
it right in the right spot because Amadola is a
smaller guy. When he throws the gron, he's got a

(44:36):
bigger strike zone to throw too. And I think that's
what the Bills have to do around around Josh Allen.
The podcast is called GM Street downloaded listen to it,
and the soon to be released book is Gridiron Genius.
Will get to that another time. He's Michael Lombardi. He's
worked with and for all the big ones. He's kind
of to spend some time of this year in the
middle of the NFL Draft. Michael, thanks so much for

(44:58):
joining us. Thanks Doug, Bubby,